Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 127 - Morgan James

Episode Date: October 18, 2022

I traveled to New York to spend some time with the beautiful and talented Morgan James. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, it's time for Breaking Bread with Papa. Hey, don't you know? It's also a show. Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. I'm Tom Papa. Thank you so much for being here. I'm very excited about today's show. We have the very talented singer, songwriter, performer, Morgan James on the program.

I love Morgan so much. And if you're a listener of my. my Come to Papa show on Sirius XM. You've heard her many times. She's a staple on our live show. She's a tremendous, beautiful, talented. I can't wait for you to listen to this conversation. It's going to be a swell time. I got to get to Morgan because I'm in New York City right now, which is very exciting to do the show. And I figure I'll get some podcasts under our belt for our beloved people. here in New York. Today's show is brought to you by Helix. Helix mattresses. How long have you been sleeping on your stupid mattress? Why don't you treat yourself and start exploring, I don't know,

making your life a little better? That's a good idea. Helix, you take this test, a sleep test, and you put in all of your sleep desires, all of your expectations of what you want out of a sleep. I did it. They sent me a mattress, and my life is drastically improved. Helix is offering up to $200 off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners. That's adorable. Go to helixsleep.com slash papa. That's helix sleep.com slash papa.

and with Helix Sleep, better sleep starts now. I love being in New York. It's perfect right now. It's got that October, prime time, leather jacket, throw on a scarf maybe, maybe a hat,

if you don't have a lot of hair. Still not like super cold, but just pretty perfect. And I'm here doing some shows. I went to a big Italian wedding, and you want to talk about food. You want to talk about... It was in the middle of the ceremony.

This was my cousin's son was getting married. And, you know, of course, the papas are Italian. And then during the ceremony, they were going back and forth, doing the vows. And then they said something about the bride being from a big Italian family. And I was like, I immediately thought, oh, we're in New Jersey.

We've got two Italian families coming together. This food is going to be insane. And it was. You should have seen it. You should have seen the gluttony. The insanity. They had this cocktail hour that took up in this entire room. Every inch of it had different stuff from pastas to seafoods, all this stuff. They had this prosciutto tower. It looked like a wedding cake made out of dangling meat. In the insane. I was like, are we supposed to, are you, do you, what is happening? I could have just stayed. There was this one center section. It was like it was right out of Sicily. It was just this giant thing of Parmesan, you know, where they have like where you dig in the middle of it. And there was just

Turali and olives and salumis. And I mean, it was just, there was every single thing that you would ever grow up with in an Italian house or if you had an Italian. neighbor or if you ran through Little Italy, they had all of it in this one spot. And people just ate their faces off and still had to go to dinner. It still had to roll into dinner. It was Italian to the max. Really, really fun. Really great. And, you know, I shot my special last week, and did I tell you about that? I feel like I might have. I shot my special in Boston. And, you know, I was kind of dialing in, and I did tell you about this. And then I decided, well, I'm going to have a cheat week instead of a cheat day.

I'm going to go cheat week. And it was, it's now over a week, well over a week. And I haven't stopped. And to roll into New York at the end of cheat week, of course it's going to continue. I'm just eating pizza every time I walk down a block. I wasn't going to drink. Last night, last night I had two marty. I'm not in my fighting weight.

I don't have my stamina. I don't have my, I don't have my, Nicole, what do you call it when you build up drinking? Tolerance. Tolerance. I don't have the tolerance. She used to be two martinis wasn't a problem. I had one and a half. I was in this outdoor dining booth and I was with my friend Skyler and had one and a half, got up to use the restroom and walked straight into a plexiglass wall.

It was, I mean, in my defense, you know. Defense, very, very little defense. But in my defense, it was very clear. I mean, you couldn't tell from, you know, with my glasses, I'm not the best anyway. But just, I would, I, when you bang into an outdoor dining structures, plexiglass wall, full force as a grown man, you're going to make a lot of noise and scare a lot of people who are eating. So I got to get out of here. but there's a Yankee game coming up, so I've got to go eat my face off there, too. It's like the last hurrah of hot dogs. I've been declaring that hot dog season is over now for two months, and I'm going to see the Yankees on Thursday in the second playoff game,

and how am I not going to eat 20 hot dogs there? I'm out of control, is what I'm trying to say. I haven't been home. I've got to call my wife and have her, feed the starter, just doing shows all over the place. It's been insane. Go to tompapa.com, by the way. I've got some big shows coming up in the Albany, in Albany at the Egg, the Count Basie Theater coming up in Red Bank.

That one's going to be great. That's a beautiful theater. So all you Jersey peeps, all you Jersey MOOCs that were at the wedding, you guys can come out. All right, Morgan James, she is amazing. Right now, if you don't know her, a lot of people know her. She's a big deal. I can't believe she became my friend. I saw her when I was going to see Garrison Keeler's final performance of Prairie Home Companion in Los Angeles at the Hollywood Bowl.

And it was the final Prairie Home. I was very excited. I came in and as people were being sat, they had performers up there just entertaining people before the show. And Morgan James came out. There was just this beautiful, woman up on stage belting out this song, filling the entire Hollywood bowl with the most powerful, beautiful singing. I was like, holy cow. And I was mesmerized. Even, you know, it's not even dark out. And I was just mesmerized. Blown away. So I looked her up after the whole thing. And as great as Prairie Home Companion was, I was like, who was that? And I looked her up and found her and sent her a message on social media. Turns out she was in New York.

I was coming to New York to do Come to Papa. And just throwing a Hail Mary, asked her if she would come on the show, if she wanted to come and perform on the show. And she said yes, which was insane to me. This goddess from the Hollywood Bowl was going to show up and do our silly come to Papa show. Well, it turns out she is as beautiful a person as she is a singer and loves comedy and has become fast friends over the last couple of years. I guess you got to go before COVID, so it's even more, with all of our comedian friends. And she just loves comedy, loves being a part of it. They all

love her. They all are blown away every time she comes and performs on the show. So we're going to do the big Halloween show tonight. And we snuck this conversation. in with her. Go to Spotify, go to Apple Music, wherever you get your music, and just put in Morgan James, and you will, if you're not already hip to it, you'll understand why I consider

myself so lucky to not only be able to perform with her, but also to call her a friend. So this will be great, because there's a lot of little things I don't know about her, and that's what this podcast is at its best, is a way to kind of like dive a little deeper with the people that

I know, or want to know and love. So enjoy now my conversation with Morgan James. Thanks for being here, Morgan. Thanks for having me, Tom. Nice to see you. It's nice to see you. I'm glad you're back.

I know. We have a big show to do tonight. I know. I'm becoming a staple of the Come to Papa show. I always feel like you're too big of a star for that show. I'm not. In fact, you're going to have to do an entire, you know, dissertation about who I am for your listeners and watchers.

Who is this? It must be a slow day in New York. Well, I'm going to do a, I'll do a proper intro. But you're very popular. A lot of people know you. You, uh, yeah, you've done a whole bunch of things. You're a big thing. I have done a lot of different things. Yeah, a lot of stuff. I didn't realize that you sang opera or studied opera.

I studied opera. Yeah, I went to the Juilliard school, studied opera. Yeah. I technically can still sing it. I'm super rusty. Really? Well, yeah, it's like anything. If you don't do it every day. Really? So even from the style that you sing,

like if you're singing all the time, but if you don't sing specifically opera, it's a... I study classically in my lessons still to this day. So every week I have a voice lesson. You do? Yeah. You need a voice lesson?

Or you don't need a voice lesson? Everyone needs to... I mean, you'll never find a musician who's good who doesn't keep practicing. That's true. You do comedy all the time. You wouldn't think you need to practice, but you do. Right.

Yeah, I guess the idea of going for a lesson seems different. Well, it's just like a living instrument. So the voice is so delicate. It's really hardy and it does amazing things, but it's also really delicate. And it could go off the rails really quickly, you know? And I go to my teacher and we still study. Sometimes I'll just pull out an art song or an aria and work on German or just to get my mind going, you know, and keep it fresh. Wow.

That's an amazing thing. be able to go and do. Yeah, I mean, I'm terrible, but I, but I remind myself of those skills, you know what I mean, at least with languages. Yeah. My technique, I feel like I'm probably, my technique is better than it's ever been, maybe because a woman's voice mature so much later and also because I have kept up with it. Oh.

It really, I, what's the trajectory for a male voice? Male voice is mature earlier, like late 20s, early 30s, and a woman's really blooms late 30s, early 40s. Oh. Yeah. And you being 25. Yeah, I'm really. You're coming to your own.

That's amazing. So you went to Juilliard and you start studying opera as part of your thing probably, not the whole thing. The whole thing. Oh, the whole thing. It's just a classical program. So why is Morgan just hang around Lincoln Center? Where does she go off and do all these amazing rhythm and blues things and Broadway things? You know, I wanted to go to Julie.

because obviously it's the best and because a lot of people I admired had gone there. Right. So I wanted to be like Audre McDonald and I wanted to be like some people that had, who I perceived had taken a circuitous path maybe. Uh-huh. And let me interrupt. When you are thinking these things, where are you? In high school.

In Modesto. In Modesto, California, yeah. Okay. And I knew when I was 14 that I wanted to go to Juilliard, that I was going to go there. Yeah. And I was rejected from Juilliard. which was a shock because I knew I was supposed to go there. Yeah.

And so I proceeded to send them lots of letters like, this is a mistake. And I'm very annoying. They call me, my friends call me squeaky wheel, James. And I get things done, you know? So I kind of badgered them and I sent some supporting materials, as it were. And I was on the wait list. Right. And then I was accepted off the wait list.

Really? How many letters did you send them? Oh, I sent them. Like, I was really cheeky about it. I sent videos and letters and supporting material from other people, and I made it a joke and I made it. But it was serious, you know. Yeah.

And I knew that I had to be there. And I, you know, I wanted to, I never really wanted to be an opera singer. I wanted to be on Broadway. Okay. And I pursued that. So when you get there, they just say you are doing opera? Well, you have to study classically. Right.

Which, yeah, and they don't encourage you to really do anything else. Oh, okay. So you make a choice to be there and study and drink the Kool-Aid and learn the things they want you to learn. Right. And I kind of hated it at the time. But of course, like anything, you become older and you say, wow, I really learned a lot. Yeah. When you first got there, though, it was like you weren't that psyched with it.

Well, you know, you go through this, every Juilliard student I know who has survived it, goes through this thing of, oh, I'm so grateful. I'll never take it for granted. I will walk through the hallowed halls and say a prayer. And then you get there and it's really tough and really mean. And it's hard to make friends. And it's not very social. And they beat you down and all the things you hear about. And then you hate it.

And you feel guilty. You go through the cycles of grief of being a jewelry art. Jeez. And then you graduate and you go, why did I spend that money? Why did I spend that time? I hate it. Wow. How many years?

How many years? Is it four? It's four. It is four. And then there comes a point when you are thankful for it again and rose-colored glasses. And you go, yeah, it wasn't that bad. After you're out of it. Yeah, of course, of course.

So not at any point during it are you like this really? And I couldn't tell anybody. I felt like I couldn't tell anybody because my parents were teachers and they were not well off. And they sacrificed a lot for me to go. Yeah. And I couldn't very well go. It's really not that great after all. You know, I just felt like such a brat.

Yeah. And so, yeah, it was, it's a challenge to be there, you know? It's amazing. Isn't it how like these places that you want to get into, whether they're structured or not, like comedy has a similar thing. Like you, all these places, beyond the arts, you have to like pay your dues for something that's really good. It's not easy to crack. You've got to. And it doesn't mean that the people there are mean, but they're, but they're, but they're, they went through it and they're tough and you've got to earn your spot.

They're going to put you through what they went through. They're not going to waste time with someone who's not serious and it's not going to stick around. Do a lot of people drop out? A lot of people drop out. Yeah. And it's not for everybody. I mean, I really don't think, and I don't say that with any shade, it's really not for everybody. Yeah.

But like anything, like when I finally got to my first Broadway show and I had an idea of what it might be, then I experienced what it really was. It's the cycle of figuring out what something really is in reality. Yeah. And the expectation. Expectation. Expectation gets you in trouble. Yeah, it could stop you in your tracks. Yeah, that whole thing of like the first time you go onto a Broadway stage to audition and it's just like...

Well, they don't audition on the stage anymore. Oh, they don't? No. No. And that's been years. Not like chorus line? Nope. They stopped auditioning on the stage in the 80s.

Why? Or maybe early 90s. Because... One. Singular. I wish. Oh, my God. I used to read.

hear tell of like Barbara Streisand on the stage. Yeah. I mean, it's been at least since the 80s that they didn't do it on the stage. It's a cost nightmare with Local 1, are you kidding me? Oh. So you go to a studio? Yeah. You go to a studio, yeah. You go to a studio and they just, oh, that's what.

I know, it's not as glamorous. Yeah, I'm glad I didn't do it. No, you should. It's not, that's not good enough for you to be in a studio. Yeah, but that thing of like going, you carry in your mind what something is, And then you show up. And then after you've been there for a bit, you're like, I can't believe I was scared of this at one point.

It's just because you didn't know it. And I also can't believe I thought this was going to be perfect and change my life. Yeah. And be the thing that solves everything. Right. You know, there's no magic bullet. There just isn't, you know. No.

It's cumulative. Did you pursue opera at all or you just knew this is just training I'm going to Broadway? I really wanted to, to, I really wanted to, to, I. I learned early on at Juilliard that I was more interested in the storytelling part than I was the just the singing part. I really, I missed that

there's a different kind of community in a theater setting and there's, the storytelling is in some ways stronger, I think the acting. Yeah. I really missed that I wanted that. So I kind of knew that I wanted to go into theater.

Yeah. So I started pursuing it right after I graduated. But it's like anything. You know, I graduate from Juilliard. And then I was like, this is going to be a piece of cake. I mean, I'm just going to go to an audition and it'll be that. And it was not, spoiler alert, it was not that.

You know, it took me a long time to get my first Broadway show. Did it? Oh, God, yeah. How long? Well, from the time I moved to New York, 10 years. 10 years? Yeah. Whoa.

Yeah, so six years after I graduate. I mean, it felt like an eternity of waiting tables and tending bar and nannying. What was the show? My first show, I had a lot of near misses, but my first. show is the Adams family with Nathan Lane. Oh, wow. He's the best. He's the best.

He's the best. He's Newark. Oh, my God. Chamberlain and Terry Mann and Jackie Hoffman. Oh, my God. Carly Carmel. Like, truly the best cast. Yeah.

And I was around these, like, comedic greats, like, all the time. Right. It was amazing. That is amazing. Yeah. Were you, uh, were you, uh, were you, so tell me when you get news that you got it. Well, I figured something out a long. along the way somewhere, I was like, okay, this auditioning is for the birds for me because I'm

terrible at it. Right. So I'm not, I don't think I'm going to be able to book a big job from just walking in and saying, hi, I'm Morgan and singing. I'm just not good at it. So what I'm going to have to do is I'm going to have to get in the rooms another way. So I started getting to know music directors and composers because I could cite read and I was so quick and I could do everything. So I was like, if I can get in and they want me. Right. And that is ultimately, how I got all of the shows I got. It's not by auditioning. It was by people knowing me

and knowing I was good for it. Yeah. Because I would audition and they'd go, she's really not that bad. Why do you think? What was it? It is a totally different skill. Yeah, it's the same in acting.

It's the same comedy. Like, just because you can do one thing does not, it's a total. And there are people, a lot of people that are great auditioners and terrible on stage. Right. So I got, I ended up doing the,

um, and I also knew. that to be in a show, you have to be involved from the beginning, the workshop. So you have to already be in the inner circle. Oh. You know what I mean? So they fall in love with the people in those roles early on. Absolutely.

So I was in the very first workshop of the Adams family. And I was in the first workshop of Motown. I was in the first workshop of, I was in a couple of the workshops of God's Bill. I was same with Wonderland. So you have to be in the beginning, usually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

People. It's just knowing people. It's people. It's relationships. It's relationships. Yeah, and then they know you're good and that's it. Yeah. Oh, going in blind is just...

It's so rare that someone really breaks in as an unknown commodity. I mean, you really have to be vetted and already have to be in the circles. Yeah, yeah. Helix Sleep is a premium mattress band, the brand, that provides tailored mattresses based on your unique sleep preferences. The Helix lineup includes 14 unique mattresses. including a collection of luxury models, a mattress for big and tall sleepers, and even a mattress made just for kids. So how will you know which Helix mattress works best for you? Take the Helix sleep quiz and find your perfect mattress in under two minutes, and your personalized

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mattress pick by GQ and Wired Magazine, and they're offering up to $200 off all mattress orders and two free fluffy pillows for our listeners. Go to helixleep.com slash papa, PAPA. With Helix, better sleep starts now. So at the time when you get Adam's family, I mean, you're six years out of school. Yeah.

Were you starting to think maybe this isn't going to happen? Oh, yeah. I fully contemplated leaving the business altogether. I was horribly depressed. I was obviously broke. Yeah. Where were you waiting tables? I waited tables and was a server and a hostess at Prohibition on the Upper West Side.

Nice. I worked it good enough to eat on the Upper West Side. Oh, yeah. One of my favorite jobs. I was a tutor for kids. Right. Uh-huh. I had to work a lot of jobs.

Yeah. I sang weddings on this on Saturdays. Oh, yeah? I catered. Right. I would cater the U.S. open every year. Oh, man.

You know, I like, I had to have so many jobs in that. Because if I got a job, a regional theater or a tour, I would have to leave. Right. Yeah, you can have a steady gig. It's that whole act of life, you know? God. It's crazy. It is crazy.

When you think back on those days, it seems like. impossible that you got through it, right? Like, doesn't seem like now that you're, like, successful and you have a life. Yeah. Like, the idea of, like, having zero money on, right? A lot of days, you have zero money. Nothing.

You need this gig to get you. Couldn't take the bus to the subway sometimes. Right. Couldn't, like, you know, it's funny because I didn't start having, like, drinking, for instance, until I got my first Broadway show because I had, I was like a teacher older growing up in college and stuff. I had no money. who has an extra $15 or $18 for a cocktail?

I had no money, so I never drank. You couldn't do anything. Nothing. I lived in a sublet in Queens. I remember when I was auditioning all the time, and I, it was my cat and I, in a stranger's house, like, in a room. Just, I never left the room. I catered every night.

And I would eat just, like, hummus and a bag of peas for food, like, for a week. You know? I mean, it sounds dramatic, but it was really true. I know. I used to get a bake, this, I've said it on this podcast before, I used to get this bagel egg and cheese, bacon egg and cheese on the corner. Like I would get the five bucks for doing late night at the comedy's, at the comic strip. And then I buy that sandwich because it was so big and they put so much on it that it could be two meals.

Yeah, it could last me the whole day. You had to. I mean, it's very funny because I think that, you know, your dreams change, your goals change. Yeah. And I really used to say, oh, I'll be, I'll just be. be so happy, I'll be so satisfied if I can just pay my bills making music. Yeah. Of course, you want more and more things as you get older those goals change.

But I think because of all the years of hustling that I choose to do very little most days. Because of those days where I was just on my feet all day and never doing anything creative. Right. And the sadness of that and the desire, you know. So there are lots of days when I just daydream. Yeah. And I do nothing, you know? Yeah.

And that is the epitome of luxury to me. Right. Of course. Yeah. And so lucky. Yeah. Man, those times when you're like, am I, am I a server or am I an artist? And also, am I crazy?

Am I the only one that thinks I should be doing this? Is the world trying to tell me that you shouldn't be doing this anymore? Yeah. That's the hard part. Oh, it's so hard. Stand up, you were able to, if there's an open mic, you can go do it. You could always be doing it. was there other than lessons was there any place that you did you like start going up just to sing like when you were before you got the shows

you know a lot of those um by the time i came around to new york a lot of the big open mics sometimes i would go at cafe waugh around the corner sometimes i would go sing at prohibition um but they're they're clogged with people i mean hundreds of singers want to get i mean it's just smalls or any of these places it's not like it used to be where people could just it up or it's yeah it's the old triple in or whatever ye old yeah it's it's it's very competitive and it's you know and then that's a a whole evening unto itself trying to get up right hanging out all day doing the hang the hang is expensive and the hang is costly on your spirit yeah so you have to really pick your battles you know yeah and i wasn't really in the position to go to an open mic when i was in my linas because i was still trying to get a broadway show i didn't know i had this other voice yet. Right. You know? Oh, you didn't? No. No. Explain that. What do you mean?

Well, I mean, it was kind of developing in this time, in this like time of sadness and like desperation of like, am I doing the right thing with life that I was starting to find, I mean, it sounds so cliche, but I was truly like starting to find the blues like in my saddest like da da da da da da. Just like that's when you find the sads. Yeah. And I had this sometimes when I would let this other voice come out, people would say like, oh, I like that one. That voice is nice. Oh, really? But it was a mimic of something else.

It wasn't really truly me yet. You were just playing around. I was kind of playing around with like what's inside of me, you know? What was the other voice? Well, I had my classical voice, my soprano. I mean, there are all these different people that I sound like. Right. And I had my musical theater voice.

And then I had, you know, and I had, so I was playing with like, which one's the real me? Yeah. It's so interesting to think that. Yeah. Because you really only know one. my true sound, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

That there's different versions for the, for the gig. Yeah, I mean, I still, I still do some crossover classical kind of gig sometimes, you know, with symphonies. And, yeah, it's like a different world, you know? Yeah, that looks amazing. Whenever I see the pictures of you in front of this giant orchestra or something in a big gown. And is that different than the voice I know? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, I think the hustler and me, I've got that kind of hustler spirit of like, yeah, I'll do whatever, whatever getting, voice gets me paid, you know? Yeah. And I do love to sing. So if it's like an opportunity, you know, I just, I just don't say no to most things that allow me to get paid to sing. Right. And it includes a lot of different worlds. So when you're hustling and struggling early, were you able to, what were you doing with your voice? voice because you're not, you know, like now you have a lot of different gigs and you're always generating stuff and you can always be singing. Could you always be singing back then? No. So you're, no. There are times when you don't get opportunities to sing. You're like a bird that's not allowed to sing. No. And it's, it was very sad. Yeah. It was something I really had to, had to deal with, you know, in therapy is that, you know, your only opportunity is like maybe you get to get up in class and sing in your musical theater class like once every two weeks or maybe in your less, but no one hears you.

Yeah. feel like you live in a void. Oh, that's hard. Yeah. I mean, I sing every day now. Yeah, it's what I am. Yeah, that's hard. And a musician can practice on their own all the time.

Whether anyone hears them, they still get to use their instrument. I guess I could sing by myself, but. No, like a guitarist can be working their fingers and doing it. Yeah, cello, piano. It just feels like something you can constantly be in relationship with. Right. Yeah, that was one of the saddest things to me. But when I got my first Broadway show, it's like they always say, then the door is open and I got four more pretty consecutive.

Wow. You know, once I got into the club. Into the flow. God, that is amazing. Yeah. Was it a flash dance moment when you got the call? It said you got the show, or was it more of a slow burn because you knew the people in it? It was more of a slow burn, and it was also just like, oh, thank God.

I just need to get one under my show. belt, you know, and it didn't feel like a big champagne moment. It just felt like, oh, I'm just so thankful that I'm not. Yeah. It's so hard going through this city. Oh, you know, as a young person and being like, oh, what do you do? I'm an actor. Oh, what are you in? I'm in nothing. It's that. And then end of conversation. Yeah. So it's just like, oh, I belong to a community. I am in the club. I'm going to be on the stage that I said I was going to be on when I was 10 years old. Yeah. It's just amazing. Yeah. So whether or not it, it turns out to be the best thing that's ever happened.

Yeah. I said I wanted to do it and I did it. Yeah. God. Ten years. Yeah. Ten years and finally Nathan Lane knows your name. Yes.

That's huge. Yeah. And Bibi was so great to me. And Nathan and Kevin Chamberlain were really encouraged me to be funny. And to lean into, whether it's in my own show or in other shows that I did or my own solo show, be quirky, be funny, be the person like, it's not all the time that someone sings like you and it's pretty and can be funny. Nathan always said, you need to lean into that. And they were just, they were great.

They always took me under their wing. They were great. That's great advice. I mean, what a different headspace from singing opera. Oh, completely. Yeah. How many funny female opera roles are there? Well, there are, it's a different funny, but it's very broad.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not funny by our standards, for sure. Yeah. It's like a washerwoman that falls down or something. Yeah, it's all just like slapsticky, broad comedy.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. How long were you on that show? I did that show all told for about, like, a year and a half, maybe all together. The workshops, the out of town, the New York run. Really? Yeah.

Jeez. What's that grind like when you're doing the same show every single? single night. Oh my gosh. Eight shows a week is the hardest job in the world. I really do believe that. It is so hard on your body. Yeah.

There are so many injuries because you're doing the same thing in the same way at the same level every single night over and over and over. Yeah. There's no variety, you know. It's just you, it's hard on your mind because you only get one day off a week. and your evenings are gone. People with kids, you know, they don't see their kids at night.

It's a grind. It's really, but it teaches you so much about, like, stamina. That's why when I go on the road, I have stamina for days. And, you know, like, I just have longevity and the work ethic from the Broadway world. And that's what that taught me. And then you're going doing one show and I ate someplace and a piece of cake.

Well, and sometimes I do 10, 12, 14. shows in a row on tour. Right. But, and it is hard. I've reached 14 is about my limit in a row. Yeah. But I can change anything I want. Right.

Yeah, that's the part. I can do anything I want. Right. I don't have the part where, like, some people, the idea of, like, doing the same thing over and over, really, they can't wrap their head around it at all. I can get pretty repetitive. Like, you know, and I'm like, you know what I mean? It's okay.

Okay. I could still find joy in whatever this thing is, even if it's set. But I've never experienced it at that level where, number one, you're not allowed to change. Exactly. Like, I could just change if I want. And that it's, and that it's that schedule, that constant repetition for that long. I could see why a lot of people drink a lot on Broadway. Yeah, it's when I started drinking. And it's also, you know, you turn into you are now a night person, you know, you are now, the show comes down and you're hungry. Yeah. You want to drink and you're not tired at all. Yeah. So you are immediately, you are a night owl.

And, you know, Saturday nights, we all go out together and there's this, you're in a community now. Yeah. And it's a really, it's an incredible community of people. Yeah. And so I do miss that a lot. Yeah. But yeah, you are a night person. Yeah.

It's like so totally different world. Yeah. You can tell, like, the best award show to watch is the Tonys. Yes. Because those people pay their dues, work super hard. Like you said, that community. Yeah. Like those acceptance speeches are so heartfelt compared to any other.

God. Like Andre De Shields, winning a Tony a couple years ago. Yeah. He was in his 70s. Yeah. Maybe older, like first Tony. Older, I think, yeah. I mean, legends, you know.

Amazing. Yeah, and, you know, I'm old school, so I definitely am a huge fan of the generation that I grew up on. Yeah. Broadway's changed a lot, unfortunately. Oh, yeah? And what way? Well, it's, I feel like it's just, I feel like it changed. I feel like Broadway really changed for the, for the worst, when we decided that we were going to pick a lead of a show based on a reality, like on a game show.

Like when we did you're the one that I want Right That was when it changed Where we're going to put celebrities in Broadway shows Yeah I mean that And we can't put the toothpaste back in the tube We can't go back now

Not after the producers see the ticket sales For putting Yeah But you know I always want to say Okay well Ariana DeBose Who was in Motown with me Won an Oscar this year She was not a celebrity outside of

She was a theater grown star Right She was not a That's not stunt casting Right. Why don't producers see that? Yeah. You know, if you develop stars in theater, they'll become stars in movies and then, you know what I mean?

Yeah, that's the way it always worked. Yeah, it was always like that. Yeah. So that makes me sad. And everything's based on a movie and that makes me sad. So there are things that I grumble about because I'm very get off my lawn about most things. You think that it's weird having SpongeBob as a Broadway musical? Yeah.

Like, this is Dauphire and all this crap. You know, it's just like, I don't know. I miss more original. ideas. Yeah, I know. But that's everywhere. Not like I'm out there writing the next new musical, but... Yeah, but that's it. That's a cultural thing.

It really is... Like the reboots. All it is reboots. I just saw that bring a Frazier back. Everyone's got to be 90. And it's like, just give me something new. Just give another... You know, when you're younger and like

discovering stuff, that's what you want. Because it speaks to you and it's like the artists are talking to you and your generation has a thing and those things last. Yeah. To just reboot stuff non-stop in everything. Yeah, it's in every genre. Let me ask you this just off of that. When you see all of these hits in pop music, popular music, whether it's hip-hop or just pop or whatever, and they're all using, everything from the past and the dominant hooks are things from the from you know ray charles or whatever uh is it an old man's grumble to be like how about how about just you know the traditional

singer songwriter coming up with something oh gosh brand new i don't think we even have time for my answer on this because this is like the ultimate soapbox for me i i am i'm the epitome of like get off my lawn when it comes to this topic because I have no problem with sampling. So sampling and an original idea are two separate issues. If only they were sampling something and making it great, right?

They're not, you know, my problem with music on the, you know, top 40 music today is that it is not rooted in anything. I so worry for this generation of listening, you know, teens and 20s, let's say. I came up on listening to so much

great music. You came up listening to so much great music. It influences what I want to listen to and make for the rest of my life. Yeah. So a kid growing up now who turns on the radio who listens to, it is truly the fast food of music. Yeah. It's not rooted in anything. Right. And it's the hip-hop, for instance.

I love classic hip-hop. Yeah. And what I love about it most is that everybody sounded so different. In fact, it was a huge insult if you sounded like anybody else, like in comedy. Like, you know? Yeah. biting anybody's style. And now I literally cannot tell any of these emcees apart.

Yeah. And when it comes to singer, there are no singers. They're out there. They're out there. No, they're out there. But they can't break through because they don't have the machine behind them and they don't have the money to be on the radio. Right.

And they're not being let through the machine. And it's a crime. Yeah. Yeah. Now, do you think that, oh, man, it's very, it's really interesting. Because there is a, there is,

people can break through on TikTok or, or YouTube, you know what I mean? Like, there, I mean, most of my fans find me through YouTube.

Yeah. I would say 90% of my fans find me through YouTube. Right. So I, you know, I shouldn't complain that there are ways

that people can be found. Yeah. It's just, you know, most of the new music that I hear and I listen every Friday to the new releases, and it's garbage.

Yeah. Like, I, sports. It's garbage. Yeah. And anybody great stands out so far that it's like the Chris Stapletons and the Brandy Carlyle stand out so far that it's

hilarious. Yeah, right. Exactly. You know? And that we're so starved for real food. Yeah, exactly. That we're just like, oh yes, that's the one. Right. And then only one or two people are allowed through. Right. And but you know, I was at a major label for five years and anytime I would bring, when I would

bring them songs, they wanted something that sounded like something that was already there. And I said, but that's already on the radio. Yeah. And they would send me to these ridiculous producer meetings and co-running sessions and want me to make total weird crap. Oh, really? Oh, yeah.

I mean, they wanted me to be, I would fight with them nonstop about they wanted me to make garbage. Really? Yeah, yeah. Just crank out stuff. Just crank out garbage. Jeez. It is really strange. Like, it does feel like a generation of fans,

aren't getting that thing of like, I mean, because you could see like, even like, you know, I've got teens. And the stuff that hooks that they like, it's stuff that's from when we were growing up. Yeah. They start to discover that stuff. Yes. Because there was like real soul and songwriting and yeah, the real ingredients. But, you know, it's also, I feel bad for that generation because it's not their fault that they're being fed this crap. Yeah.

It's not their fault that they're, that the radio and playlisting is so curated. so led by money that they only it's not their fault that those playlists are going in the algorithms are a certain way right and you know they they would like something great if we let that succeed yeah yeah they don't you know and people are always like oh I like I I I know I I know you like what you know right you know and you like what you're fed yeah you know and so if we feed people great things they'll like that yeah they will no definitely because they'll feel better Yeah, they'll feel better. They'll feel healthier.

They'll sleep better. It's true. Yeah. Oh, that's good to hear because I always feel like maybe I'm just like out of it and grumbly. But when I just, when you hear like a classic song and someone's just talking over it, I mean, without great words, it's just like, what do we do? Like, this is a cheat. It is. Yes.

It's a real cheat. It is. Yeah. And back in the day, think of it. Think of it hip-hop in the 90s. The way they, first of all, without advanced computers to splice all that stuff, how they sampled and how they, the artistry that went into it. And because the reason hip-hop from the 90s is great because those guys listen to music.

Yeah. They grew up on great music. Huge collections. Huge collections of music. They listened to everything. And they all wanted to be so unique and so special. Yeah. They didn't want to sound like anybody.

And they also, you found other great records listening to the, I mean, That's why love classic hip hop. Well, that's the thing. It's like there's nothing wrong with that continuing conversation and moving stuff along and dive, you know, taking from the past. But it seems distorted at this point. It seems like you don't have the artistry. It's not in artist's hands.

It's just, it's in the splicing it and executing it. It's not like, you know, when Daylost Soul like took it or public enemy took it, It was just like, you know, it was in the hands of somebody that was really trying to say something and do something. And I really do, like, what is today's, like, you know, top 40 pop, let's say, what is it influenced by it? Like, I love 90s R&B, right? Yeah. Grew up on it, love it. 90s R&B is great, in part because it's inspired from 70s R&B, right?

It's taking it and, you know, what is today's music? I cannot hear a single influence, right? I don't feel, and this bed. dream kind of pop of like the I don't understand the the moody the moody as be as quiet as you can and whisper your your diary it's not singing I know it sounds so old no I don't get it like yeah please let it die I'm really being subtle I'm glad I asked yeah no but really I don't get it either and you're just like, you know, just purely knowing nothing other than just being a fan, you know, I hear your voice and it's like, holy shit, that's a singer. Really? You're like, I mean, just not

knowing anything, you can know this person is singing the shit out of this song. Thank you. Yeah. And then you hear somebody like, oh, but booze you, and you're like, what are they doing? That's not, it's not, it's not the same thing. Right. It's not, well, it's definitely not the same thing. Yeah. And I think part of the problem I had when I got to, when I was signed to Epic Records is that I was signed, I didn't have anything written. I didn't have an album. I didn't have, I just was signed as a voice. And so when I got there, then it was a big debate about, oh, what are we going to make you into? I was like, well, I don't think you need to make me into something. I want to sing soulful music and, okay, well, what are we going to, we got to have a gimmick and what, and it just all started to crumble about, oh, we got to make it into a thing that's

clever that will. Marketing. Yeah. It's marketing. It's marketing. It just all. It just all. It's became a, oh, you don't look like you sound, and that just became instead of being an advantage or something cool, it turned into a problem, you know. In the eyes of this marketing. In the eyes of just, it's just very ADD, the marketing and the, and the, the tension spans are just so low when it comes to developing, you know. Back in the day, all the artists we love and grew up on, right? Yeah.

They would do one, two, three records that were terrible. Yeah. sometimes, you know, and then the label would go, oh, you'll get it, we believe in you, developing an artist. Yeah. Hollenotes didn't, their first record didn't hit. Yeah.

Holenotes is one of the best bands in the world, you know? So nobody, you do one bad thing. I mean, my first, I did two records at Epic, and they put some money behind, you know, my record, my Hunter record, my first original record. Right. But, you know, pretty much when I found out I got dropped was Ellie Reed, went into a staff meeting and said, oh, we're going to do a new thing.

Go down alphabetically and tell me who didn't make money last month. What? And they got, and I'm Jay, so I got dropped. That was literally how someone decided to not invest anymore in my career. They don't care. They are, the attention span is so low. They don't care how much money they've spent on you already. They don't care about your potential.

Right. They don't care about music. Yeah. You know? I just saw this thing with kids in the hall. Yeah. There was a documentary on them. And they got canceled their first season on HBO.

And Lauren Michaels said, you know, people loved them and they got canceled. And Lauren was like, this had nothing to do with their potential. It had nothing to do with how funny they were or how the show was doing. It was purely the economics at HBO at the time. And it really just kind of resonated with me. Because so many times you get things canceled and you think it's, as the artist, you always think it's you. Of course. What could I have done?

What possibly could I have done more? Could I have done it? And it was just like, no, this is people you never met that were not part of your process at all are just making a decision based on a ledger of what's happening this month, this quarter. You're just a line item. It has nothing to do with you. No. Nothing at all. That's amazing.

I mean, the hardest part about being an artist amongst many things. You know, it's that line from You've Got Mail where he says, it's not personal. And she said, it's not personal to you. Right. It's personal to me. Like every single thing we do, we get up in our whole, we just are like, here's my standing alone in a spotlight. You know? Yeah.

And say, here's my whole self. Yeah. It's personal. Yeah, of course. You know? And it's like, the rejection is like, oh. Oh, God. But now the other side of it, in this beautiful time that we're in,

so you don't work with Epic. Yeah. And you start making your own shit. Yeah. And touring. And post things and YouTube and all the rest of it. And people find it. And it's like, so the artist can't be stopped.

No, I can't be stopped. And in fact, it's been so empowering to not be on a label and make whatever I, want and and to have people say yeah that we want that and and to be it's it's I have my own quality control in the people who are actually listening to me yeah and the fans are so my fans are so loyal and so amazing yeah and I could never have found them if I hadn't made myself accessible in in trying to reach people and being dropped right I made myself accessible and people want to be a part of a journey That's what I'm saying.

That's back to the thing of discovery. It's like the silver lining and that discovery. People want to say, I was there when there were seven people in the room. That's right. Everybody always says about Brandy Carla. It's a lot of people that were in the rooms of seven. It's odd. But everyone's like, oh, I was there when there were only seven people in the room.

Right. But no, people do want to be a part of something from the beginning. I always knew. I believed and I was there. Yeah, yeah. And it wasn't pushed on me. It was, people weren't telling me I should like this. There's a backlash to the algorithm,

to the playlist. There's a backlash to it. And one of the biggest pieces of evidence is that vinyl's back. Like, kids love vinyl. It's a backlash to the low-attentions fan. It's a backlash to the impersonal way that we live. Yeah.

No, they want to sit and be immersed and hang with the artist and read the cover. Yeah, they do. You want all that. That's what's so frustrating about the way, especially when you're not young and music isn't coming from all your friends and everything. And you're just immersed in the world of it.

And then when you're alone as a grown-up, you have to go seek out music. And the way that you seek out music now is getting just, this is the most popular of this artist, right? This one track. I know. And it's like, no, I want the whole, like, the way they feed you is so small.

Even if it's of great people. And they're just like, this is the most listened to. So this is what you should listen to. And it's like, I don't know. I always like the be. sign. Yeah. Deep cuts. Yeah.

Well, I, you know, a lot of people find me, for instance, through this collective of people I did some videos on YouTube called Postmodern Jequax. So most people find me. My music is nothing like Postmodern Jukebox. However, I like that someone can find them and then hopefully they'll find me and then they'll go on a journey of my YouTube channel and hopefully they'll stay. Yeah. Or hopefully they'll come try one show and then I'll hook them. Yeah. And I'll get on.

I won't let them go. You know, and that's the hope. Yeah. And all I have to do is I just, I just have to keep making things that are authentic to me and good things. Right. And that I really believe in. Yeah. And not trying to, if you go for gimmicks like you will just burn out so fast, I think.

Right. Yeah, when you're chasing them, that's the, that's the thing. You got to chase that Bonnie Raid trajectory, you know? Just stick to yourself. Just make good things for your whole life. The end. That's the end of the trajectory. You know?

Right. Yeah. And, you know, she had her first hit when she was 44 years old. Wow. You know? Tina Turner had her first solo hit when she was 42. Really? Yes.

She's. I just saw her doing on Instagram. Instagram's great for showing old. Which I love. Yeah. It was Tina Turner doing the Beatles come together. Oh, so good. Oh, it's so good.

She's just sex. God. Oh, she and Bonnie are so sexy. Just. grown-ass women. So good. So good. I love it. So what was the cover that you were showing me? What was that for? Oh, my new album? Yeah. I have a new album. We are going into the studio in November in Memphis. Oh, that's the cover art for the thing you are making now. We haven't even recorded it. That cover is so cool. Thank you. It's going to be an R&B record, 90s R&B inspired.

Nice. Going back to my roots a little bit. What do you mean inspired? Well, inspired by the, a production that was in the 90s. No, but it means that you're writing stuff based on that. Like it's all original? Yeah, it'll all be original. Nine originals and one cover. Nice. And it will be like, you know, if you like Babyface and Mariah Carey and Maxwell and Chaudet, like, they'll like this record.

And it comes out in March. Wow. Very exciting. So when you, how long does it take you to write that? I kind of, I'm, I just write so I can tour. So I don't write like year round. I just write, I kind of go, okay, it's time to write a new record. And I begrudgingly go in and finish a record.

When there's a deadline? Yeah, kind of. I say, I don't, I'm not inspired all the time. But it'll, if I sit down to do it, I can write a record in a couple weeks. A couple weeks? Yeah. Really? Yeah.

I guess that's not that on you. If I'm really pressed to do it. Yeah. You know, I usually over a period of a few months, I'll get inspired. I'll figure out what I want to do. I'll sit down with mostly Doug, my co-writer, and then a couple other co-writers as well. But yeah, if you sit down and you write a song a day, you know?

Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. And then I'm like, oh, good, I don't have to write any songs until the next record. Yeah. And do they change a lot after you get them down after a couple of weeks? Yeah, they change when you start arranging them and figuring out what you want them to sound like. They change when you start playing them live, too. Yeah.

They take on a new, a new, they become a living thing. Yeah. Because then they are a part of the audience. The audience is a part of the song. You're getting their feedback. Yes. And they... That's interesting.

I never, I thought that, because that's how stand-up works. But I wouldn't think, I thought that music was different, like, that you, that it's not as much of a conversation. Like, I think the audience tells you, tells you how they feel. I think they're, I think if you don't listen to that, that's foolish. Yeah. You know? Not that all of a sudden I change.

to my set every night, but I definitely feel the give and take and songs take on a new life on the road. Right. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Which I love. Yeah, that's really interesting. So, will you tour this one before you go in the studio? No, because we're going into the studio in November.

Like in three weeks. Yeah. And we're going to have a gospel choir on one track. Really? Which I've never had. Wow. The Morgan State University Choir singing on one track. That's the coolest.

I know. How cool is that? You have a whole choir walking in. Oh, my God. And I've always had that in my brain. And when I first heard them, I first heard them when I did my first show I ever did at Carnegie Hall. They were the choir for the Bernstein Mass. And I heard them and I was like, someday, someday I'm going to sing with them.

You know, it took 14 years. Oh, really? Yeah. What's special about them? They're just classic. It's just like a wall of sound. They're so special. Really?

How many of them about? Well, it's a huge choir. I don't know how many. I think maybe we'll do four per voice part. Four per voice part. So, I don't know. 20 people maybe, but then we'll double track them. Oh, that's amazing.

It'll be really, I've never done that, so it'll be really cool. That's a cool moment because it comes off of just an idea you had in your head around New York. And all of a sudden there'll be all these human beings. showing up in a room. When people show up, and I'm sure you have this feeling, whenever you've put together so many epic things, whether it's a special or a TV show, when you have an idea,

and then you turn around and the people are there making the idea come to life, it's so cool. It's the coolest. Humans are a part of my vision. All the way up and down. Like crew members, an intern, the camera guy, the singers.

I mean, that's insane. It really is a cool thing. It's like everyone coming together. to go, just make this thing that was just an idea you had. That is just so, it's amazing. That really is cool. So what's your touring schedule going to be? So you'll crank the album out and then?

I'm touring a little bit through, you know, the holidays here and there, kind of strange schedule. And then I will, we're going to be on the road all of April and May. It's going to be pretty solid. Yeah. We're covering as much ground to the U.S. in April, May. We're doing a huge figure eight. Oh, really? Yeah, it's going to be great.

So we're going to hit, I think we're going to be on the road like eight weeks. How do you like the road? I love the road. You do? I totally love the road. I love it. I mean, I hate the logistics of the road. Right.

Because you're in charge of the whole damn thing. Yeah. I mean, I hate the load in, load out. I mean, you know, there's definitely, I hate the precariousness financially of getting it off the ground. It's not like anybody sends me any of my money up front. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah.

Those kinds of things. I hate the, but I love being in a new city every night. I love creating my little family on the bus. My dogs are with me. It's so fun. And yeah, I love traveling. I'm like vagabond at heart, you know.

Yeah, it is a great thing. But man, you travel with a lot of people. It depends on what you're going out with, right? I do travel with a lot of people. Like, when I'm on a bus tour, I have like, yeah, like 10 people with me on the road. And two dogs. It's a lot of people to manage.

It's a lot of people. And to wrangle. All looking for lunch. They are definitely, I'm the mom of the tour. Are you? Oh, yeah. You have a nickname? Well, I mean, they call me MJ or mom.

Uh-huh. Yeah. The boss. Yeah. Is it totally foreign to you to think of me and my wheelie bag going and doing three shows, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, completely alone? I cannot imagine. I, it sounds really lonely to me because I'm always surrounded by people.

Yeah. And I, how do you deal with if, you probably don't ever bomb anymore, but like if you have a show that's subpar and then you have no one to commiserate with, how do you deal with that? Yeah. Well, it's usually all. Just alone with your thoughts. Yeah, just alone. Just kind of like thinking, all right. I've become very monk-like about...

Really? Yeah. Since the pandemic and going back to it, I think it really gave me clarity of what is the most... What's the important part about being out here right now? And what is it? It's purely the writing and the performing, and that's it.

Everything else where I would be like, I got to go find coffee. I got to go get something eat Or my opening act wants to go eat Or like what are we going to do after the show? What are we going to do after the show? I'm going to go back. I'm going to look at some notes from this show

And then I'm going to try and get to sleep At a decent hour. So tomorrow's show is going to be good. And it's just purely like, it's gotten so small in my mind in a really kind of strange way. It really is a little strange. But it's gotten very, like, small.

It's just, this is, it's, it's, it's pairing it all down to the, what's left. What's the most important? Most important ingredients. Yeah. It doesn't mean that, like, sometimes, you know, you want to go get a meal or do something, but not, not in recent days. I also think that's a testament to age, too, you know, which is, like, just not needing to prove that you can be the most social and the most,

up the latest and you know, like needing the validation of other people is potentially something that comes with the wisdom of age, I don't know. Yeah, you work smarter too. Yes. You know where to put your

energy, where you're going to get the return for it in the best way, you know. But back to the commiserating when you bomb, yeah, I don't really bomb, but I, you know, just in a mood or something weird happen or whatever. I usually have an opening act.

I'll have like one person. And you can bitch with them. Yeah. You have to have somebody to bitch to. Yeah. It's like Steve Perry used to stay, you know, lead singer of Journey. Yeah. And people used to ask him like, what's it like, you know, being a rock star?

And he's like, oh, for the band, it's a party. It's really fun. For me, I have to go back after the show and be on vocal rest and have tea. Because if I don't come out the next night and hit all the high notes, there is no act. Yeah. And so it's a little bit of that for me where I have to be so careful about what I put in my body and how much rest I get. Otherwise, a lot of people depend on me for their rent. Yeah.

So when you get fatigued from the logistics of it all, do you have like a buffer? You can hand it off? I mean, I have a tour manager and I have a manager and I have a lot of people that help me. I'm definitely not doing it all alone. Yeah. And I try, I do have to pick my battles. Yeah. But I'm doing like a pre-show meet and greet and a post-show meet and greet and a signing.

And it's just a lot of stuff to do. Yeah. You do pre-show and post-show? Like a pre-show meet and greet and a post-show signing every single day. And sometimes I'll like, I'll sign as long as people want to be there, you know? Yeah, I just did an hour in Houston after the show. It was just, I just went on forever. That's great.

But it was great. I don't mind that. But after talking for an hour and a half. I know. By the end of it, someone came up and said, you must be so tired. I was like, I think I am. I think we had, yeah. I don't like the pre.

I don't either. The pre is tough. I hate it. I hate it. I just want to stay in my zone. But I, you know, there are certain things that I'm in a place where I don't have certain luxuries. You know what I mean? Yeah. Meaning, you know, you just do certain things because I'm in a place where I'm trying to develop my touring career.

and so if it's extra dollars or connecting with more people that I, you know. No, it all pays off. What do you eat on the road? How's your, are you, are you good? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty healthy on the road. You know, I don't, I love wine.

I don't drink any wine on the road. I can't drink wine while I'm singing. Oh, right. I try to, like, limit it to, like, a bourbon. If I'm going to have anything after the show. Uh-huh. But I eat pretty well. I eat pretty strictly.

If I'm on the road, I'll try to be pretty strictly vegan. Yeah. Try. Right. It doesn't always, doesn't always pan out. But I try and a lot of water and, you know. Constant, yeah. I mean, airplane days, flight days are just, it's a wash.

Your whole system and it goes out the window. I almost wore a mask coming. I would have if I had one in my pocket and I just haven't had a mask for so long. Yeah. But on a flight from Houston to Newark, just not even COVID. Just people coughing. Just like cold. I don't want your churns.

This kid, like, snotting all over everything. I was like, we should be wearing masks all the time with the- I still wear them on planes. You do? Yeah. Planes and the subway, I still wear it. Yeah. You know, because I don't want, I really enjoyed not having a cold or the flu for two and a half years.

That was quite enjoyable. I know. Are you going to boost up? Yeah. I have an appointment tomorrow to boost. The Omicron one? Yeah. Be careful.

Why? It's going to take you out for a few days. A few days? Well, that's what I hear. I have friends. that weren't affected at all by the others and they were like the Omicron booster got me. Really?

I don't have a few days. It has to be done in eight hours. Well? Maybe I should do want to get home. Well, I don't know. Do you ever have a, is there a time when maybe you have like two days where you could rest? Yeah. Never.

You go, you make my schedule look like child's play. That's not true. We're both busy. Well, we are. Yeah. No, yeah, I'm constantly working. But, yeah, I have to get to the Yankee game on Thursday. You have tickets to the Yankee game on Thursday?

Mm-hmm. But in my rain. You know, that's right by my house. You should come to our house at the free game. Yeah. I extended my trip. You got an extra ticket, Tom? I don't.

You might get my ticket if it rains out, and I have to go home. Oh, great. I can just pop over. You can hang out with my high school buddies. Great. We do the same. We do a game each year. these four guys.

And I've known him since, you know, I was 10. And this year we didn't get to do it. So who scored ALCS tickets? I did. I have a friend at the Yankees. I got a friend of a friend. My good friend Debbie. Nice.

Yeah. That'll be amazing. Yeah, it will be amazing. But I'm worried about the weather. So you travel with your partner. I do. I travel without my partner. There are pros and cons.

There are. Yeah, because you wouldn't worry about extending your trip because they'd be on the trip with you. If I extend it and then it rains and I want to stay another day, I'm starting to push it. Yeah, I don't know how people have a traveling lifestyle that aren't with their partner. I mean, I'm so lucky. Like, we just get to go everywhere together. Yeah. And we get to see the world.

and, you know, there are a few things that I do on my own, like, symphony shows, and he has a few things he does on his own, which is nice. We get a tiny bit of space. Yeah. But for the most part, we are always together. Yeah. That's a lot. It's good, though.

I mean, because the way you tour, like, I'll go for a couple days, normally a couple days, and then you're back home. So it's not that, but for you as a musician to go for, like, you know, weeks at a time. Yeah. It can't work. No, that wouldn't work. It's why relationships just crash and burn. It's just too much time apart.

Yeah. And it's such a rough and tumble, like, you know, lifestyle. Yeah. It's just late nights and drinking and, you know. Right. Yeah, exactly. Other talented, beautiful people. And I can see why relationships get effed.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, the distance is too much at a certain point. Yeah. But being together all the time. I know. I don't, a lot of people could not have done it. Like, when COVID hit. And people were like, wow, this is, I'm always with my partner.

This is horrible. And we were kind of like, well, it's just our life, you know? Yeah, this isn't really that different. It was no different. Yeah. So, yeah, we get on each other's nerves. But, like, for the most part, we get along pretty well considering we're always together. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it's easy. We write songs together and we, you know, and we're both so, such strong personalities. Right. But we do pretty well, you know. When you guys come and do my show. Yeah. And I always

I'm always bumped when I go to introduce you because you're Morgan James. Yeah. But then I'm friends with Doug. And I want to mention Doug too. But this is really the Morgan James show. Well, it's the Tom Papa show.

Well, it's the Tom Papa show. But Morgan James is the special guest. Yeah. Is it better to say and then just acknowledge him after? He doesn't care. He doesn't care. The good thing about my, for those of you listening and watching, my partner, Doug Womble, is that he had this, like, massively, massively successful career before he ever met me. Right.

And he's very fine being along, like, he knows all the importance of what he does in my life. Right. And the importance of what he does for my music and our music together. Right. And he doesn't, he's like. He's not looking for, he's not looking for the validation. He is very secure in his, in what he brings. Right.

And he's really not, he's not pressed for like, why didn't someone say my name equally? Like, he's like, no, they're for you, you know? Right, right. Which is great. And that security in what you do is very attractive, you know, and knowing what you bring to the table. Right, yeah. All right, good. That makes introducing you guys easier.

Just be like, Morgan James and whoever this guy is. And then give it up for the guitar. Guitar guy. The guitar guy, too. Yeah. Yeah, tonight's going to be an interesting one because we have this different musical setup. Okay. Apparently he's supposed to be great.

Great. And he's part of the comedy seller family. He does a lot of shows for them. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, so it should be pretty interesting. Great. Yeah, hopefully it'll go well. And then we'll have Dave Hill.

I mean, always the best. Although, is Dave going to be fine that there's not going to be bass and drums? I guess he'll just mess with the keyboardist and the guitar and the drums. There's drums. There's drums. Yeah. Okay, great. Keyboard and drums.

Great. And it's a Halloween show. Ooh. That's really good. That's your Adams family roots. Exactly. Exactly. So who are you?

So you have a, would you say that you are, Morgan James, because when you were talking about your voice and. and who you really are. Yeah. It's sexy bluesy lady. Yeah, I call myself a soul singer. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. And I, you know, I think that one of the reasons I kind of left the Broadway world is I kind of saw, oh, wow, I'm doing eight shows a week, I'm busting my ass, we all are, for someone else to make money. Mm-hmm. Like for someone else's vision. And I really, it became clear to me, okay, I want to be. to, I want to create something and build things and make them. And whether they rise or fall, it's my, it's all me. Yeah, you're putting it out. And then, you know, so I, yeah, soul singer and producer and. Right. Yeah, but I think in terms of my sound, I think the most true sound that I make is my soul singing.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing to watch. Thank you. I'm glad we're friends. I'm glad we're friends too. Yeah. In the intro, I'll tell people how I discovered you. Oh, yeah, Hollywood Bowl. It was amazing. And then you slipped into my DMs and said, do you want to be on my show? Yeah. And I was like, sure.

And I was like, what? This is impossible. And now you can't get rid of me. I hope that you're okay with that. It's the coolest. Well, thanks for doing this. This is really cool. It's really nice to be able to ask you questions.

Yeah. What else do I need to know about you? Did you get all your questions in? Most of them. Yeah, I think most of them. I mean, your Boise, Idaho roots. Yeah. When did you leave there if you were in Modesto in high school?

I was born in Boise. I grew up in Pocatello, Idaho. I lived in Idaho until I was about 12. Until you were 12. Yeah. So we were a feral... Farm girl. Farm girl?

Not really. No. I mean, yeah. I mean, I like to fish and be outdoors and do stuff like that. Yeah. But not really. It was still just like suburban. Uh-huh.

But I, you know, growing up in Idaho, it's like you're just wanting to be somewhere else because you've never been, you've never seen the ocean or been to a professional baseball game or been to an amusement park. It just seems like the rest of the country has cool things you want to go see. Right. You know, it's like one of the first things I did when we moved to California is like I wanted to see a baseball game. game and I wanted to see San Francisco and I wanted to like just like see this like yeah yeah the stuff that doesn't come to Idaho yeah yeah doesn't come through do you ever connect with Ryan Hamilton about Idaho well when I met him I'm a huge fan of his when I met him and it came up in conversation or maybe he had mentioned it on stage yeah no one is from Idaho like no one gets like escapes you know

like gets out yeah and not a lot of us in in the entertainment you know I met like three people from Idaho in the entertainment world. And oh yeah, like, and so I love when he, in his act, when he says, the first thing that people say is when he says he's from Idaho, they go, why? And they also think it's Ohio or Iowa. Right. We have shirts in Boise, you know, that have a, the picture of the state and it says Iowa. Like, it's just like a running joke that no one cares about us.

Yeah. No one knows. It's such a great state. It's a great, it's beautiful. I love Boise. I love Idaho so much. I love when I get to go back. Yeah. Yeah.

It's so beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Outside of the white supremacists, it's great. Yeah. It always gets weird on the edges. It really does. Yeah.

Would you move back to that kind of living, you think, later on? No. I'm a New Yorker. I'm a lifer. You are. I would love a house upstate. Yeah. You know, the New Yorker's dream.

But I'm, yeah, if I'm not going to be in New York, I'll move to Europe. But I'm such a New Yorker, you know? Yeah. I love it. I don't know how you live in L.A., Tom. Well, it may not be forever. I'm here right now. I know.

I see you pretty often and we're always in New York. You do. I do enjoy that. You've been keeping up with your visits. It's been nice. It's the whole reason to do the Come to Papa show so I can just keep coming back to New York. Well, you do have a good setup where you get to come back here once a month. That's great.

Yeah. You know, I always, whenever I get any kind of shows that are close and then tag this on. Oh, yeah. That's a good way to kind of do it. Yeah. Yeah. And then the Yankees play. and then you just don't leave.

You know, I'm a huge baseball fan. I've been to some pretty amazing postseason games in my day. You have? I have. I was at the Derek Jeter game for November 1st Home Run game. No way. Yeah, Mr. November, I was there. Really?

That's a good one. I was at a lot of, yeah, it's, before I worked nights, I could go to games more. Yeah, I know, exactly. You're just like, that's when the judge was going to break the record. Oh, my gosh. I was in Chicago. I was about to go on stage. And I said to my friends on the text thing that I go to the games with, I said, good news.

I'm about to go on stage. So he's about to tie the record. And of course, exactly what happened. Exactly. Yeah, you can't really like. Yeah. So great. That's so great.

Well, thank you for doing this. This was amazing. Thank you for having you, Tom. And I can't believe we're pals. I'm so happy we're pals. I know. Every time I'm around you and your cool friends, I'm like, I feel like I'm in the cool crowd. They're not cool.

Well, you are. I know. I like how they all come by your table and kiss the ring. Like, you are so, they love, everybody loves Tom Papa. Oh, they should. In fact, actually, you know, I sometimes I forget what a big deal you are. And I'll just say to people, oh, my friend, Tom Papa. And they're like, oh, you're like, oh, your friend.

And I'm like, I didn't mean to say his full name to be dushy. I just like, and I was like, oh, you know him? And they're like, yeah. Big deal. It's a name that has to be said all at once. It really does. Yeah. Kids do that all the time.

Do they? Yeah, Tom Papa. For some reason, it just seems like one thing. I love that. Yeah. Well, you're the best, Morgan. We have to go do a show. Yep.

All right. Thank you, Nicole. There you have it, kids. That was Morgan James. I told you, she's beautiful. Very insightful, very smart. Go and download her music and keep it on your favorites, and you will live a better life. Go to tompapa.com.

Look up all of my dates. I am touring all over the country. I also have an appearance coming up in a couple weeks on Wait, Wait, Wait, don't tell me. And my new special, I'll be announcing the air date of that soon. I just finished the edit of it. So soon I will let you all know. You'll be the first to know.

Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.