Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 173 - Jesse Joyce

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

When Jesse Joyce isn't writing for TV he's writing the funniest historic fiction I've ever read. Get 'Killing the Guys Who Killed the Guy Who Killed Lincoln' on Scribd, at https://try.scribd.com/jessejoyce/   Thank you to our sponsor Nuts.com! Right now, Nuts.com is offering new customers a free gift with purchase and free shipping on orders of $29 or more at Nuts.com/PAPA.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Who's our guest today? Oh, the very funny Jesse Joyce. Wow, you mean the writer from? The writer from books and television? He's on the Kimmel's and he's on the, he worked with Greg Gerardo for years. He did roasts. He's like the nicest roaster you'll ever meet. I don't know why I'm asking you all the questions.

I think I've known him longer. Yeah, for sure. Jesse Joyce is here. He's got a great new book called The Killing the Guys Who Killed the Guy Who Killed Lincoln, a nutty story about Edwin Booth and Boston Corbett. It's great. It's a real account of the guys who killed Booth after he killed Lincoln. And the characters are hilarious, and he's such a great writer.

I can't wait to have him come in and spend some time with him. you're okay talking about books, right? I'm uncomfortable because they scare me and make me sweat. Yeah. But it's fine. I will make an exception. Can I tell you a quick thing about a book real quick? No.

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shipping on orders of $29 or more at Nuts.com slash Papa. So go check out all the delicious options at Nuts.com slash Papa. You'll receive a free gift and free shipping when you spend $29 or more. That's Nuts.com slash Papa. Love these guys. And gals. There's probably some gals. There's probably people. It's the nuts thing that makes you think. We get excited about nuts. Yeah. It must be guys.

So that book story. Yes. I had to do it. I don't want the nuts people to be angry. It was nuts. Great. Oh, how funny that we have nuts.com is sponsoring today's show. And Jesse's book is a nutty story about Edwin Booth.

Yeah. They sound like two just cuckoo-me-goos. No, I'm talking about the nut. I got it. Okay. So we went to a used bookstore. You did? You and I.

Oh, yes, we did. When we were on the road. That's right. In Salem, Oregon. Salem, Oregon. And I asked this really sweet, typical Oregon, like she should be on the brochure for Oregon, just like a flowy dress and flowy hair and like help me around. I kept asking her over and over and over again, all these different suggestions.

Well, I didn't go with any of them. It was funny. Can I just interject? Because I was looking for a book and I was just in the literature section and just kind of like looking around. And I heard you just doing your number on this woman from the kid section. I was. I was doing a number. And I was like, well, tell me about like what are the battle scenes.

Is there sci-fi? What kind of violence is there? Does anyone get fingered? Like I had to ask all the questions is for my kid. So I decided to go with my mom. And I picked a series I had never heard of, but I looked up a little bit about it. Okay, fine. I picked it.

Just get one. Just get one book. I want my kids to start a new series. And I bring it to him. We get back into town. And he goes, all right. And I see him reading this morning, 6 o'clock on the couch reading. He goes, I love this book.

Wow. So now we've got to go back to Oregon to that store so I can get two, three, and four. That's amazing. I have to say when I heard you being loud and mean to this lady, I was thinking, what a good mom. Because I'm there looking for my own stuff and just doing my thing. And you're like, you're only in there. I mean, part of it's because you don't read.

But also it was nice that as soon as we got in there, you were boom. Right away. I got to get something for my kid. Because he wants to read books that I don't think he should be reading yet. How old? He's 12. What grade? 7th.

What's the one with all the kids on the island who kill each other? Hunger games. Not Hunger Games. What's the other one? Lord of the Flies. He wants to read Lord of the Flies. He should. No, not at 12th.

Do you remember Lord of the Flies? Yeah, but I think that's, I think seventh grade is when they made us read it. No, we were in high school. We were ninth. Oh. Well, you're in Jersey. What about Hunger Games? My wife is a teacher.

Okay. And a lot of the kids in fifth grade want to read. The Hunger Games, and that's pretty violent. And then she says, but it's still okay. And, like, they team together and they learn to do stuff. But then that author came out with two more books. And apparently by the third one, it's just dystopian hellscape. Yeah, no, that's not going to happen right now.

Yeah. That's fifth graders. Fifth graders, that's crazy. I want him to still believe in wizards. What do you mean? And potions. Why would he stop? I'm just saying, like,

That's what I would like for him to still, you know, like a Pegasus is nice. Can I be honest with you? Can one of the characters be a Pegasus? Of course. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I looked up Christmas on Instagram just for a minute for some reason. And now Instagram is just sending me these beautiful snowy environments in Switzerland to ha-hoo, bah-hoo. And just the snow's coming down.

and yeah, I want to live with a Pegasus too. Right? Yeah. Anything that's like a little escape, a little magic. A little bit of violence, a tiny, a little bit, but not like I pulled his esophagus through his throat and ate it. You know, like that's just, there's plenty of time for that down the line. Yeah.

But he really is battling me on it. It's like, you don't think I can handle it. You can't. You hid your eyes at Jurassic Park. Did he ever see it? movie it? Absolutely not. What is wrong with you? We had a birthday party for my daughter and like, she must have been like sixth grade or something and she really wanted them to watch it. I think she had seen it before, but one of the moms was like, this is very inappropriate. And it was like

a setup out in the backyard like with the screen and all the kids and lounge chairs. And they screamed so much every time that clown came up. Like 30, six years. grade girls, that the cops came. I'm glad the cops came. Yeah. And did they haul you away? No, we let it rip. Well, that was a crime you committed.

We let it rip. That's a scary movie. It's terrifying. It's really scary. No, there's no reason for that. Have you seen it? Yes. Yeah.

Did, now, will you judge me on the other side? I will. On the other end of life. Would you judge me if, you know, you want your son to live in the Harry Potter fantasy Pegasus world, would you judge me for at this age getting a PlayStation 5 just so I can play the Harry Potter game? I mean, I mean, you're fifth, okay. I guess fine. It's fine.

So yes, I would judge you. Yeah, you are. I would judge you. I judge you. You're already doing it. I judge my husband. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Why? He plays games? He doesn't. He does. He does. Yeah. And sometimes I have this thing where I'm done with a set and I call him when I get in my car. Hey, I'm leaving Hermosa Beach.

Comedy Magic was awesome. And he's like, oh, okay. Yeah. And then I go, yeah, it was fun. It was, the crowd was amazing. Oh, yeah? You're playing a video game right now. All right.

You don't care. You don't care. Bye. See you soon. and I hope I don't get stuck in traffic or drive to Mexico by accident. Okay, like, I can tell within 25 seconds. I thought you were going to say that you give him the phone call

just so he knows to wrap up his game by the time you get home. Oh, he doesn't wrap anything up. No. He's sitting there with a headset talking trash to some eight-year-old in Dubuque, Iowa. You know, it's like, do they know how old you are? I think, here's what I think, we can't make it anonymous anymore.

We got to show these old, dude's faces so that when moms walk by they go Jonathan who are you playing with I don't know but this guy says his kids are older than me I come on you cannot I don't I'm not comfortable with any of that yeah I have a hard time with it myself to the point where like there's something my kids are gone I have all this I have the house is mine I can do whatever I want now and part of me thinks maybe I should get a video thing. I can play like everyone, there's billions of people playing for the

idea of me holding a controller in my living room with my wife walking in. I go soft. No. Your penis should go inside your body. And I don't know.

It's like, you know, my husband has a lot of great qualities. And I overlook this one. But I do ask him, when, When does it, are you 63, 64, 65? Like, when does it end? Yeah. At this stage when my kids are gone and it's kind of like, oh, this is kind of like a second honeymoon phase.

Like we can, we're back to dating now. We're back to the couple we were before they left. For the idea that I'm now going to start playing video games, well, she's, it doesn't really make sense. No. But I can have a fantasy. All right. Jesse Joyce, very, very funny person. I started reading the book last night.

I can't stop reading it. It's so good. I know you don't read books, but pretend that you read it when he shows up. I read books about how do you deal with kids who are douchebags. That's what I read. Yeah. I'm reading parenting books. Well, Lincoln was a parent.

So maybe. I'll read this book. But is there like a physical book? Do I have to swipe it? Like, oh, it was a real swiper. I don't know. You can't say page turner, right? I don't know.

I can't swipe. Just in case it's just a swipy, let's not shit on the format before our guest gets here. I'm not at all. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Jesse Joyce. So good to see you. Thanks. Yeah.

It's exciting. I know. This is really cool. You must be doing a lot of podcasts because you're one of the people that we know who actually is affected by the strike. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of time now. It's an odd feeling.

It is weird. I guess I'm kind of used to it at this point, you know? Like, it's because it's been 130 days or something. Is this longer than the last one? No, the last one was like 150, I think. But it's getting there. So we're getting there. We're getting close.

Yeah. Well, it's May, the first week of May, right? It was May 2nd. Yeah. Yeah. Which was weird, too, because we had like a show on May 1st. Right. It was just like, well, I don't know, see you tomorrow or in six months.

You know what I mean? Like, it was a weird. Jeez. Yeah. And you work on real housewives now, right? No, I don't do anything. I just whatever. I'm writing some stand-up for myself and others, you know?

I try to get out and do stand-up again more than I was, you know? Yeah. I noticed that you were posting more stand-up. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's the other thing, too. It's like, I have time to do that. You know what I mean? Well, you've been such a great writer for such a long time.

Thank you. Yeah, to the point where, uh, I would say you have a reputation now. Well, thanks, I guess. Right. I don't know. Well, I mean, you would think he might add in and then I can also see my kids more often.

But that's cool too. No, no, writing is more important. Yeah. I figured that we would get into children. Like, sure, they're around a lot now. I mean, I have more time for my kids, but really I'm writing jokes. I do.

I have to bring it back to children. I know. It's because I feel the same way. Yeah. Here's the thing. I don't need a pat on the back for, like, you ever know, it's like, I find this fucking obnoxious when, like,

there's like a buzz-fifference when, feet thing or something where it's like, look at this cool dad who like made a bunk bed into a death star or whatever. He's not. Fuck that dad. Because I know about it. You know what I mean? Like if he was actually a cool dad, I'd never know that he did that because

he would have done it for his children. But he didn't. He did it for Instagram. You know what I mean? So what a absolute dripping douche. You know what I mean? I have that problem with, we were talking about that on the road last week. I have that problem with everything in our lives. It's like I feel in my mind,

the way you do. If you do something and then post it, then I question you're doing it. Right. Look at us on our anniversary. My wife is the best. I love my kid. And if you're posting it, what's that for? Yeah.

But here's a thing. When your daughters get older, they see the posting as a greeting card or as an expression of your love for them. Oh. How about that? Okay. I have a daughter who's four, so. She's four. Yeah.

So she's been on Instagram for three years? Yeah. I follow her. Yeah. So she, yeah, that's not a problem yet. But I have heard stories like that from guys who have older daughters, like that kind of stuff. Yeah. But I don't take those couples seriously at all.

I think that they are faking it. Uh-huh. You know, when the wife is, you know, sitting right next to her husband on the couch. And they're both on their phones. And she's like, happy anniversary to my rock, the one that makes me breathe, the cornea in my eyeball, my mitochondria in my cells, my, my mate, my mate, my shipmate, like all the, you know, they're not fucking. You're right. They're not. You're right.

Absolutely not. It's all like overcompensating, you know? Yeah, the public displays always means it. It drives me crazy. Yeah. It's all my friends, too. And I want to do a bit about it on stage, but I know I'll hurt someone's feelings. You're, if you, I try talking about it on stage and we are the minority.

Yeah. Yeah, it does seem like everybody does that. Yeah. But also, like, regular people, like, they don't, that's the reason they're on, like, the people in your audience. Right. The entire reason they're on Facebook is, like, show pictures of their kids in Halloween costumes. You know what I mean? Like, us, we have to be on it for, like, stupid bullshit show business reasons.

You know what I mean? It's a promotional tool. And so then it feels like really stupid to then just like wedge in also where it's like, I think the few people that do follow me follow me for comedy purposes. And they don't like give a shit about seeing that I whatever did, you know. Yeah. Go punk bets. Yeah.

Like, yeah. Exactly right. And you know your intent. Like if I were posting, it wouldn't really be to express my love for my children to my children, I would be doing it in hopes that people see me as a nice guy and come to my shows. Right. See, it worked. It does work.

Yes, she just went aw. But people, what about people that are like, hey, we're going on a, you know, 27-day cruise? We're leaving right now. Today, September 12th, our flights at three. Our house is empty. Like, it drives me nuts. What are you doing? Here's all of our family's birthdays.

too. Yeah. Hey, here's where my kid goes to school. The back gate's always open. You know, our safe word for our family is mama ligga. You know,

it's like, that drives me also bananas because it's like people, I get hosting every single meal. Okay, great. I love that. A beautiful cup of coffee and a cafe in Italy.

Awesome. But it's like, everything. Here are my molars. Watch me brush my teeth. Private. I'm inside your mouth. Well, here's the thing. that I was thinking and if I had more

time or energy, or if Joey had more time or energy we could we could do just a fictional version of me being the nice family guy. Oh yeah, just use stock kid photos? Just like not even your own children. Just be like here's, yeah

like just any bullshit like just me coming out of a car. We just got to great flags. Yeah. Six flags. You know we could we could create a total narrative that really isn't invasive because it's all made up. That's an interesting. I know. That's great. But Joey and I can

hardly get our shit together to post about Toronto. Tom adopted a boy from a fishing village in Thailand. That's amazing. Tom is the best. Oh my God. He's donating at Special Olympics again this weekend. Like, why not? Why not just make it all up?

With Photoshop and AI, you can be anywhere. Speaking of that, we're going on a cruise tomorrow thing. What time? There is a guy. No, no, no, no, no. There is a What's your address? What's your address? What I'm super fascinated about? He is a flat earther who has self-funded a trip to the edge of the world, and he left today.

Like, he has been posting, like, a motherfucker on Twitter about this, like, this is it. And he, like, planned his whole route. And he, because he wants to prove that on the other side of the ice wall, you just, there's more Earth on the other side, right? Wait, what do you mean ice wall? Where is it? All right, I'm like. Game of Thrones? Icewall?

Because, so I, like, at Kimmel, I'm on the, like, QAnonon desk and whatever. No, like, oh really? My territory is conspiracy bullshit, right? Like, I'm super entertained by that. I think they're hilarious, hilarious goofballs. And, you know, because it's like the ultimate Dunning Kruger effect, like the dumber they are, the smarter they think they all are. Yeah, it's fascinating.

It's really delightful. And Flat Earth is like a specific avenue of that that I really particularly enjoy because it's just so devoid of any fucking rational thought. And there is a guy who I don't know too much about, but in the circles that I kind of, follow, he has been posting a lot. Like, this is it. This is the big trip.

And so he's like leaving today, I think. In what? In what? Like a scooter or a boat? In a boat. Yeah, he's going to sail to the, through the, they think there's a big wall of ice. Okay. The earth is flat.

So if you pancake to the whole earth. Okay. Then Antarctica circles all the way around, right? The outside of the circle. Like the wall on Game of Thrones. That's what I was saying. I don't know that was there. Because that's the other thing about dipshits, like QAnon people and flat earthers and all that.

Every reference that they have at their disposal is from some dumb movie or TV show that they watched, right? Oh, that's funny. It's all like being red-pilled, you know? Like that means it's from The Matrix, right? And then where we go one, we go all is that Q&N phrase. That's from the movie White Squall. It's just literally like a quote. Literally from movies.

Yeah, like there's never been a book quote from any, you know what I mean? Like that has not entered anything to QAnon's every time. It's all, so yeah, so the ice wall is from Game of Thrones, right? Because they're just dummies. They get an idea from HBO and they're like, that's what the earth is like. White Walkers. Biden's a white Walker. Right, right, right.

So they think on the other side of the, they think on the other side of that wall, there's more Earth that the one world government doesn't want you to know about, right? Like that's where. Who do they think lives over there? I think like all, like the 1% or whatever, something like that or like the Illuminati or like the Lizard people. I don't know who they think. So there's something even better than the monster. Yeah, yeah, the regular us Joe's aren't allowed to go to, you know what I mean?

So anyway, so I just am like really intrigued to like follow this journey because he like literally like has so loudly proclaimed that like, here I go, everybody. How are we going to follow it? Is there Wi-Fi at the end of the earth? I don't know if he's, I think, well, like I saw somebody tweet like the best possible thing is this guy never posts again. Like that would be the most hilarious. That would be so great. Because that would be like you fell off the earth.

It would be like a perfect. Yeah. So, but so I don't know. It remains to be seen. By the time this podcast comes out, it's so weird that they think he might be dead. I don't want to dwell on him too much, but it seems like if it were,

if it wasn't, yeah, but if it was flat, if it was a flat earth, I thought you would just fall off. I didn't know there was extra earth. Yeah, well,

they think it's flat, but like way bigger than anybody who's told them. I didn't know that part, but it's also bigger. Yeah, sectioned off to this one part of earth that we're allowed to be in.

Wow. So, your book is great. Oh, thank you. Your book is, is great. Thank you. Well, I'll say it in the intro, too, but killing the guys who killed the guy who killed Lincoln, a nutty story about Edwin Booth and Boston Corbett. And I can't stop reading it.

Oh, wow. Thanks, man. Because I respect your intellect, so I appreciate that. Well, I'm a moron. You should definitely raise the bar, but... I didn't say you were the smartest guy I know. I said I respect your intellect. This is different. But, you know, you're always a great writer, but to see it go. into this form, it's really funny and really smart and it's hooky. It makes you want to keep reading. Thank you.

You're in there and you're working and you're doing Kimmel and you're doing flat earth people. Where do you find the time to research it? Because I figured it's just going to be this funny book about the guys who killed the guy who killed Lincoln and it'll just be, but it's fact heavy. Like there's research. This is research.

Yeah. Well, I'm a a history dork to begin with. You are. I enjoy doing that. You know what I mean? Like that's what I just go down Wikipedia rabbit holes all the time and stuff like that. You know, so I, that's kind of relaxing to me. It's kind of what I do with my time off.

Oh, really? When I'm not spending time with my delightful children. That's all I'm asking for is just insert the children somewhere in the conversation. So it's like, it's my nature to do that anyway. And I always kind of knew. And also it does tie into my interest in weird lunatics, you know, this Boston Corbett character. He's like such a fucking goofball, historically speaking. He's a fascinating guy. Yeah. And so I've always kind of just like known a few little nuggets about his life. And then

separately, I was always intrigued by the fact that, that Edwin Booth, at the time, was the most famous actor in America. He was huge. He was a huge celebrity. And then no one knows who he is anymore because of John, his brother John killing the president. And so I knew this one anecdote about the time that Edwin Booth saved Lincoln's son's life, which I always thought was really interesting. I don't know if you got to that in the book, but that's in the book. But so whatever. And I just kind of thought like, oh, that might be like just to, I'm really interested in the Lincoln assassination. I think that like, but not to just go straight down the middle and do a story about the Lincoln assassination to do stories about guys on the periphery

that I think are really funny. Yeah. And so yeah, so I don't know. So yeah, I just read newspapers from the Library of Congress a lot and a couple books about it. And did you, did you digest it all and then with the intent, I'm going to write a book, so I'm going to... Yeah, I got a book deal to do it. It was like the Scrib, who was the company that gave me this book deal. You were great, by the way, I don't know if you ever, but maybe I'll give you like a link to put up at the, whatever. I don't know how podcasting works. Joey, we have another thing to do.

You know, so, yeah, yeah, but you get two free months if you click on the link. Anyway, so, but yeah, they were like, we want to do a comedy history thing. And then my manager, Brian Stern, who you might know from New York. Yeah, yeah, I remember Brian. He's like Collins manager. Yeah, yeah, LeBron. So he was like, I know the perfect guy. And so he was like, just pitch him some funny history ideas.

And so I did. And they bet on this one. And so it was like, great, fuck. Now I got to learn a lot about these guys. So that's kind of how it. What's so cool, I mean, there's a lot of things that are cool about it, but you do keep your comedy voice while doing this historic story. So, I mean, it's like the perfect combination.

of you're actually learning something. Like I'm so hooked on the story and want to keep going because of that. But you're also, it's your pure comedy. Well, thanks. It's really got like that element to it. Thank you very much. So it's like this, yeah. Yeah, it was more important to me.

That's why I told the editor to begin with it too is like it's the premium on this is on the comedy. Like I want to not embarrass myself if a historian ever reads this. Like I don't want it to be wrong in any way. Yeah. But it's far more important to me that it's funny. and interesting than it being a... Because every...

I read a lot of history books. They're like never funny. Never funny. Like the guy who writes he's such a dork. Right, exactly. It's just so dry. Yeah. Self-serious, you know what I mean?

And that's the other thing that's annoying too. It's like, it's just funny. And everybody, like, takes it so serious. I think most people that read history books, though, would think, well, I'm, you know, I'm so intellectual. But if someone did make it funny, they'd be like, well...

Yeah, true. You know, how dare you, you know, made. Drunk history cracked open an audience. Definitely accepted. That's kind of what I said was like this book is like, it's the tonally, it's like drunk history, but from a guy who's been sober for 18 years, you know what I mean? So it's like basically. Yeah, and yeah, Sarah Val, you remember Sarah?

Yeah. Yeah. Her books were kind of that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, in fact, didn't she do, did she do assassinate some vacation? Is that her? I don't know. She was on her titles.

She was always on. John Stewart pitching a book like every other week. I'm like, how fast is this chick right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I went to, well, first let me do a side note just because it's on my mind and I'm going to keep thinking about getting into it. You worked with our buddy Greg Gerardo forever. Yeah.

And he was both of our closest friend. Yeah. And miss him dearly, of course. You have such a, your mind, like he took you on the road and you guys were like, oh yeah, we were just like, yeah. Going for forever. Yeah, rambling around the country together in the, my Nissan. And I never hung with the two of you at the same time.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Like, maybe at the story. Yeah, but maybe like, maybe at the comedy. Yeah, but we never really hung out. But the similarity to the way you talk and the way you're brain. is so damn busy, is so adjacent to his. Yeah.

Your car rides must have been much more interesting than when Kira and I are driving. How dare you? How dare you? No, you know how we take pauses? We'll stare out the window for a minute. Seriously, though. Yeah. Like, were you aware of that when you were working with him?

Because he was always, like, his brain was so busy to the point where it was almost dangerous. Well, it was dangerous. It ultimately was dangerous. But yes. Yeah, but I mean, it was like just a pure delight. Like I've never met a more like fascinating person than him. And I likened it to, it was like driving with Wikipedia. You know what I mean?

Like, because I could just ask him about anything. He would just know about it and be able to ramble. Like I remember there was one time we were just driving back from the stress factory. No, it wasn't the stress. It was the DC improv. And we're just like, you know, through the night driving up, you know. Back home to New York. back to the York and I was just like, hey, what was the Boer War all about?

And he just, like, explained the entire thing to me and like, oh, you mean the first Boer War or the Second War? And then he just, like, went into the whole thing and, like, explained all, and I was like, God damn, this is amazing. Like, it's just really delightful. And so he could also serve as, like, a fact check for, like, certain jokes or thoughts or ideas I had, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. Because, like, I think I'm a relatively smart guy, but, like, man, he was on another level. Like, yeah, it was another level. And it was kind of the, it's kind of the similar thing that, not to tie this in in a lame way, but when reading the book and what you're saying about the history and the comedy,

it's like you feel like you're talking to someone really cool who just knows something about this. Oh, thanks. You know what I mean? And that was what he was. Yeah. He was cooler than you. Yeah.

But smarter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Normally the smarter guys wouldn't also be cooler. Right, right, right. Yeah, he really had the world by the balls in that way. Yeah. There was one time we were, because I used to write for all the roasts for him and stuff.

Yeah. Early on, one of the first ones, I had texted him something, and I asked him something about who was on the dais, and just, I was in my 20s, and I, uh, was my first. And I, so I just had never seen the word dais written down before. Yeah. And so I spelled it deus, like the Latin for God, right?

Like, I just didn't. And he texted me back. It was such like a funny, smart guy, sick burn. And he's like, you know, it's rare to find somebody with such a mastery, of Latin theology and such an ignorance of formal seating arrangements. It was just like, when I was in the grocery store,

I got it was like, oh man. And he like made me feel stupid and also laugh at the same time. And I thought that is like the true genius of Craig is that he could make you feel dumb, but also agree with him. And also would be like, God damn, it's so smart. It's so crazy.

That's where you and I first met. Oh, really? Was it? Saget. Saget roast. Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Yes.

Yeah. I was doing like red carpet stuff. Oh, right. Who are you writing for? Just Greg on that? I thought you were writing for the whole. No, like when Greg was around, I just wrote for Greg. So that was my door in.

And then after Greg died, then I got like sort of grandfathered into the writer's room. Of the whole thing. Right, right, right. But it was like a fun dynamic that because there was always like a kind of a competition between the room and us, the two of us. Right. And who would crack the best Gary Busey joke or whatever, you know? And Greg was real secretive about his material. And like Jeff Ross, who was also a genius at roasting and something.

Jeff goes around for like a month practicing the roast. And like, right, never wanted anyone to see any of the jokes until day of, you know? Right. He wouldn't even send in the script until that day. And so it was like a real fun thing that day to get to see because they kept it from us too. Right. Like who got it?

You know what I mean? It was like a puzzle, you know? Like who finally cracked the Joan Rivers Pussy joke. So, yeah, it was great. Amazing. And it's very cool that you're still tight with the family. Yeah. Which is, which I am too. And it's like, it's nice to see that there's like that his kids were so great.

Mary Ann was so great. Like it's just that we never left the orbit. Yeah. And now watching like Gregory, his oldest son is actually dipping into stand-up now. It's the craziest. It's so crazy. Yeah. It really makes me feel.

Like, I had, in that world, I never really felt like the old man of the game, you know what I mean? Right. Greg was 10 years old, 12 years older than me or something like that. So, like, I was always like this young guy he brought around. Yeah. But now, like, there's a second generation. And now, like, I'm the old wise guy. It's a weird role reversal.

It's so weird. It's so great to see how healthy and good the kids are. Yeah. Yeah. And I used to, like, kind of, like, I've credited his kids with the reason I have kids, you know? Uh-huh. Because after he died, I would like kind of big brother shit with them. You know what I mean?

Like, I could take them out. I would take them out and like we could, I'd get them all hopped up at Dylan's candy store. Right. And then we'd go do something goofy and I'd let him say fuck in my car. And then drop him back off or whatever. And I would do it. And so, like, yeah, and I just, that was such a cool experience with those kids. Yeah.

Because I was like 26 at the time, 28 maybe. and it was like, oh man, like this is kind of a neat role. So it really did. Right, right. Like, it was absolutely what like sealed the deal for me. Right. I'm going to have kids someday. Yeah, that's great.

Yeah. It's beautiful. And is your four-year-old doing stand-up? No. Not yet. Not yet. A taekwon or tung-sudo is what she does. Oh, I took that.

Which is that one? Tang-sudo. A humorless activity. It is. It is. It is. It's a Korean martial art. Yeah, it is. You love the Koreans. I do love everything about, I think I might have been a name.

naked Korean in a past life. I'm obsessed, obsessed. Why naked? Yeah, why naked? Because those are the ones that I like the most. Right. Naked Koreans? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. That means you're usually in a spa if you're naked. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're just naked, like, out on Ventura Boulevard. Korean barbecue. I love Korean barbecue. Naked Korean barbecue.

I did Korean martial arts. Yeah. I wouldn't necessarily know where to find naked Koreans other than the internet. They're behind the ice wall. If you go right behind the ice wall, there's a lot. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, I baked you this bread, by the way. What? That's for me? Yeah, that's for you. It just came out. Oh, wow. But why, like, in a weird liquor store bag, like, present it? That's fine.

I'm recovering. What do you mean? A nice liquor store bag really takes me back. Wow, look at this. This is delightful. What do I do with this now? Do I live in your face? Take it home.

Shove it in my face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But holy crap, that's amazing. Yeah, you're really good at that. I know. I brought you this iPhone. Wow, I didn't realize I was going to get a gift. That's exciting.

It's a 12. Oh, wow. Mine's an 8, so I could use, yeah. Look at you. I got to get a new one this week, actually. Hipster. Let's talk about killing the guys who killed the guy who killed Lincoln. Yeah.

When I went to the museum at the Ford Theater, it's one of my favorite museums. It's amazing. Hands down. Yeah. It's amazing. Just having that and the theater and the place across the street, where they ran him up into the little apartment and the bed is still there. Yeah. It's insane.

The whole thing is so moving and so breathtaking. But when you go downstairs, there's this like wall of images with write-ups of all of the people who conspired. Yeah. And helped booth along the way. Right. When they were trying to hide him and stuff. Yeah. I didn't realize how entangled it all was.

The conspiracy? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. And what an abject failure it was. It was kind of like January 6th in that way. It was like they were all mad and they were going to do a thing. But nobody really planned ahead and they just all fucked it up.

And a couple guys were able to like accomplish something. But like it was really just kind of a, I guess you know what? We should have probably enlisted smarter guys to help with this plan. We should have. We should add a plan. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, like they were supposed to like eliminate the entire cabinet that night, right? and every single guy that they recruited

just fucked it up except for John. John's the only one who succeeded. His job was to kill Lincoln. Then there was this guy Louis Powell who was supposed to kill the Secretary of State and there was a guy George Azarad who was supposed to kill the vice president.

There's like a whole bunch of them. They all had a role and like Azarot wanted to have a drink to build up the courage and he just stayed in the bar and got too drunk and just never bothered. And Lewis Powell, I'm talking about the book, he goes to Seward's house, house and his sword's the guy who bought us Alaska by the way so that's folly yeah so that's why

you'd know him but it's a great little city in Alaska yeah yeah and uh oh i can't get a good story about that place um and uh he went in the house and just literally stabbed just started randomly stabbing at people and stabbed everybody except the guy he was supposed to stab and then he like fled and he ran back to mary sarah's boarding house that's the she was the the the robin-ray pen played her in the movie the conspirator right like it was a movie that robert for a couple years ago. Right. So you can learn about her story or whatever,

but they did most of the conspiring at her boarding house, right? And so he just like burst in the door and the like version of the FBI that existed then was interviewing Mary Sarat and he was covering blood. Oh, God. Well, got you. They were all just like dumb assholes. Oh, man. Every one of them.

And just John got lucky just because it was so easy to kill Lincoln. You know what I mean? He didn't have security. He had a broadcast. He's going to the theater. He let everybody know. It was in a newspaper that day. Like Lincoln will be at the theater again.

I didn't realize. it was the day the war ended. The week, the war ended. The week, the war ended. So it was like a week, it was five days after Lincoln won. Like he won the Civil War. And this was just party, good time. Yeah, exactly.

It was just like a week as free party. So everybody was feeling good. And so he was like, yeah, fuck it. Let's go to a play. You know what I mean? And then John, who was like an open micer basically at the theater. Yeah. So he, everybody knew him at the theater.

So he could just walk in. Walk in. And yeah. So like, and then he didn't have any security. Which is such a showbiz thing. That's such a comedian thing. Like you could get in. to any theater you want once you're in comedy.

All you have to do is walk in and act like you know what you're doing and walk through the back door. And you realize you can get in any theater. Oh, for sure. Yeah, exactly. So that's just what happened. He just was able to get up right behind him. But I think that museum is fascinating because it all happened in such a, in like an enclosed place.

Yeah. They have everything. You know what I mean? Like when you go to George Washington's birthplace or whatever, which I've been to, There's like half a broken comb. You know what I mean? Like that's it. That's all there is to shoot.

You know, it's like, oh, okay, cool. But they have the knife that he used to stab major Rathbone. They have the gun he used to kill Lincoln. They have Lincoln's bloody top hat. They have the whole suit. They have everything. Like all of the stuff from the assassination is right there. You can see it.

And it's right in front of you. It's really neat. And you can feel, there's something, I mean, it's one of those weird things where you don't know if it's just the gravitas of what happened there, but there's a somber, heavy feeling. You can just sit in the theater. You can just sit in the balcony and look over at where it happened and look at the stage,

and you can just kind of like hang there for as long as you want. And there is a weight to that place. Yeah. There's an eerieness to it. Well, a lot of bad shit happened there. I don't know if you got to the end of the book. No spoilers. Oh, all right.

Well, I'm kidding. You can spoil it. to the end of the book. I feel like I don't feel guilty about spoiling anything historical because it's been available to you for a hundred years. Like, I'm not spoilt. At this point, you should know it. And if you don't know it, then I'm fine spoiling it for you.

But you'll still enjoy the book because it's a funny book. Yeah. But Edwin, Edwin Booth, John's more famous brother, who then was just tormented by the idea that his legacy was fucked now because of what John did. Which was a shame because he was such a good actor. Yeah, like the best actor. He was like the brando of... He was the Tom Selleck of those times.

Well, like, he was apparently so good that when he played bad guys in mining camps, people would shoot at him because they were so mad, you know, because whatever. So, so long story, he was just haunted by the idea that his, he's going to be forgotten. He was right, you know, like nobody remembers him now. On the day of his funeral, the day of his funeral, he was like, finally had kind of become a sort of whatever respected guy again, you know, he kind of earned his reputation. back by that point. And then they were burying him in the ground, and Ford's Theater collapsed and killed like 22 guys. Wow.

And that became the front page news story. And it was like second tragedy at Ford's Theater. And so then you read past the first paragraph, and it's like 40 years, John Wook's booth kill, you know what I mean? So it brings it all. And then Edwin's obituary gets bumped to like page six. Like it was overshadowed again. Overshadowed like at his goddamn funeral.

It's like when Farrah Foss had done. and then Michael Jackson died. Yeah, exactly like that. Yeah, so, or Princess Diana and, see, that's my point. None. Teresa? Mother Teresa. They died on the same day.

Oh, really? Exactly, right? That's so funny. Anyway. Well, if you ask your Q-N-on people, Princess Diana did not die that day. That's true. That's very true. I was telling Tom, we were driving for three hours the other day, and I was like,

you've got to get one or two. conspiracy theory friends because it's fun. You know, it's hilarious. You can still observe them from a distance on Twitter. Yeah. That's what I mean. That's what I mean by all my friends are on Twitter. Yeah.

You have real friends? Yeah. Oh, okay. Like, I don't want one of the, my neighbor is, right? So my neighbor is. You got to have one, you know. And he's like a retired boom operator. He's a nice man.

Yeah. And it's nice to have an older man who has owned a home for a long time because it's my first house. And so. if the fuse box does something I don't understand. I could be like, hey man, can you? And he is great for that kind of shit. And also he like gets, he's like real up on union shit because of the strike.

Because he's in, you know, an age old show business union guy. So most of our texts are that. But then one out of every six is Gavin Newsom is a lizard. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, come on, man. And then I just don't respond to those. And then he goes back to texting normal shit about, Do you have a generator?

You know what I mean? Like, we were on the road this weekend, and we went around eating lots of things. Yeah. And you're very particular about what you eat because you are dialed in. You've gone keto, and you've improved your life. And I don't think you, I want to state that you shouldn't apologize for eating that way when we're out. Well, it's a little, it's a little crazy. It's not.

It's in your head. Okay. It's not. You tell them, I want a burger with no bun. get it. I don't have to do a song and dance. I don't have to make excuses. You're not the only person doing it,

and it's fine. Just doing it. Thank you for giving me permission. You're welcome. It's really just so I'm not annoyed. But there's other stuff that you can eat and you can snack on if you want to, and nuts is part of it.

And you would think, well, nuts.com, is that all they give you? Nuts? No. They actually have this amazing website that gives you a ton of it. My wife has certain sponsors who she loves. Nuts.com has made the ranks. My daughters are away at college, and she's like,

let's get some stuff from Nuts.com and send stuff to our daughters off at college. Yeah, because my kids like cashews, almonds, dried mangoes. Look at this. Kids are back at school and snacks will be flying out of the cabinets. Not in our house. We don't have children anymore. At Nuts.com is your one-stop shop for freshly roasted nuts, dried fruits, sweets. They have these gummy bears and chalk.

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Back to Jesse Joyce. Do you think that it's a, do you think it's a product of social media and the internet? Or do you think that people had a mental break during the pandemic? Like why so many people go off the edge? No, because people have always been, that's what I think is super comforting about being a history dork. I would encourage everyone to become a history dork because it gives you peace.

Because you realize that, oh, all of this shit has happened before. Everybody's been fucked up. This is actually technically better than it used to be in a bunch of ways. So it's all going to be fine. You know what I mean? Like it makes you feel that way. But because there have been conspiracy dipshits forever. Like the people who followed Calvin Coolidge were absolute fucking dummies.

But the nice thing was there wasn't a Twitter. So you didn't have to hear about them. Right. You know what I mean? The problem I would agree with Twitter is that some dipshit wants to sail off the earth. I get to know about it. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Whereas back then, they would just be out in a cornfield and they could just say, I'm going to say left. And they could do it. And I just wouldn't have to hear about it. So it's been a mental condition of the human beings forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just now get to observe it. And it almost seems like it has equal weight to real news because nothing's vetted anymore. Yeah.

Well, yeah. But I mean, also like William Randolph Hurst did the whole like with yellow journalism. And he just started the Spanish American War just for the fun. Like it was all bullshit. But he just did. And then people were like. like really suspicious of Spaniards for a very long time. Yeah. Like it was.

But don't you see like just in our world like comedians who all of a sudden go off the deep end? Pretty much all of a sudden. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like they seem to have cracked. I think humanity wants to believe there has to be more than this.

And so it starts to get fantastical, you know? Like there has to be more than just our everyday humdrum going to Mendocino Farms. and having our lunch, you know? Yeah, but why all of a sudden, like, people who we used to do open mic with, and we're kind of, like, going through the ranks, all of a sudden there's, like, a whole segment of them that kind of, like, broke off.

Well, I don't know. I mean, I feel like it just felt less dangerous before. But, I mean, I remember doing road gigs with guys when I was, like, a young feature act, and they were talking about how the moon landing was fake and shit like that. You know what I mean? Like, but it's taken a, I guess, a more harmful turn of late where it's like...

Maybe it's that there's an audience for it too now. There's an audience for it. I will say my kids, this is not a conspiracy theory, but I have told them, you know, Christopher Columbus was also a little bit of a douche. You know what I mean?

There is that, like, where we were told to celebrate someone, and we learned it all in school, and we all did, like, you know, you drew your hand on a piece of paper and made it the Nina and the Pinta and the, you know, we did all that. And then I am telling them, you know,

truthful things that were believed for a really long time. And now it's like, well, he was a dick. He was also a dick. Sure, did he sail, treacherous seized? But then he also, you know, he didn't even fucking do his job. His job was to go to India. And he didn't fucking, not only did he not do it,

he got here and just said it was India. And that's why for hundreds of years, we've called them Indians, for no reason other than Columbus, just absolutely didn't have a compass and fucked that all up. Is that really why? That's why. Yeah, yeah. That's why the Cleveland baseball team's name was so offensive.

It made no sense. They're not from India. But he thought, like, well, we did it. We made it. I was taught when we got here. They said, hey, we're Indians. No. No.

Welcome. We are the Indians. They didn't speak in a Jersey accent, actually. I'm just saying what I learned in the New Jersey Public Schools system. They were looking for spices. I really had no idea that that's. Joey, did you know that's why they were called Indians? Yeah.

You did? One job. I'm out. And he fucked. it up worse than anybody has ever publicly fucked up. And he's been celebrated for that just gigantic fuck up for hundreds of years. He wasn't even the first guy to show up here.

No. It's not even like, you know, we, Eric's like lots of people came here before. And it's not even like, oh, thanks for finding this continent. Right. I think we know Jesse's next book. Oh, that's a really well-trotted. If there was some weirdo on that ship,

that guy I would do a book about it. I'm sure there's some rose and, Kranz and Gildenstern person, like on the periphery of that story. So it's a nice story about Edwin Booth and Boston Corbett. And Boston Corbett, uh, oh yeah, we didn't get to him. Was a, was a madman. Mm-hmm. Because he had mercury poisoning.

Yeah. And was an alcoholic. Yeah. First of all, I didn't know, this is what I mean about how, why I love this book is because I'm learning stuff as you're going along. Do you know how felt is made? Oh, yeah. You do?

For sure. Yeah, it's pretty gross. It's Tate hair. You take, no, you don't know. Okay. Do you know? No. I liked how you did that, though.

I really did. I believe it. She's very cunning. You take animal fur and you mush it down. Yeah. And then you pee on it. Yeah. The hat makers back in the day, right?

Yeah. Any picture you see of a guy at a hat in the 1800s? Yeah. That hat was soaked in the guy who made its piss. That's how they did that. They literally, the hat maker would pee on it. This whole time my foreplay with my husband has been making felt. Uh-huh.

Yeah, you could have been making hats. That is crazy. You have been wasting pee. What a waste. Don't judge what we do. He is my soul. He is the cells in my body. He has the lungs in my chest.

So they would pee on it. Yeah, they would pee on it. But then they realized that in our urine is mercury? Not everybody. This is what I thought was an interesting detail that I learned about what in researching this book is that hatmakers who had syphilis made better hats. And so people sought out hatmakers that had syphilis. And the reason that they made better hats was because they treated syphilis with liquid mercury. So they would just drink.

And then eventually they put together that it's like, I don't think it's the piss. I think it's the mercury that's really nailing hat making. And so then they just started just steaming hats and just raw liquid mercury. So they would just be inhaling liquid mercury all day long in a hat factory. Which it turns out is not good for you. No, it makes you very crazy. And like super paranoid and shaky. It's called the Hatter shakes, right?

Yes. That's what the term. Mad Hatter. Mad Hatter. Yeah. What? Yeah. And it took like 30 years for them to figure that out.

So it was just like, there was like a long time where people were just like, hey, is your hat guy fucking crazy dude? And what was Lewis Carroll who made Mad Hatter? Yeah. He did Alice in Wonderland And so, yeah, he was kind of, I think, one of the first guys to, like, publicly point that out to everybody, like, hey, isn't it weird?

Does the guy who make your hats all so crazy? Because mine sure is. You know what I mean? And that character really took off because he was like, yes. Hat guys are fucking nuts. And then people started to put that together and go like, wait a minute, what's going on with a hat making?

And I think that's when they realized there's a problem. So, but this dude, Boston Corbid, steamed hats for years. And so he was like super, he's like half a Terminator robot. You know what I mean? just full of liquid mercury. Because it's cumulative too.

Like, if you ingest mercury, it stays. And then the more you just keep building it up in your system. So the more you do, the crazier you are. Yeah. And so then he started talking to God. And then this is like my favorite detail about him, which is kind of at the beginning of the book, because there's way more crazy shit that happens.

But he then became a street preacher, right? Because he thought he could talk to God. Yeah. And he was on the street one day and some prostitutes talked to him. He got really horny. And then he got upset about it because, you know, he's a street preacher. preacher. And so he went back and he read that

part of the Bible in Matthew that says that if your eye offends you, you should cut it out, or if your hand is causing you to stray from God, you should cut it off. No. And so, grab a pair of scissors. No. With a pair of scissors. Didn't even go to the hospital. Just, like, hung around. Just went to dinner, and then he went

to church. And then at church, people were like, hey, man, your dick is bleeding. You should go to the hospital. And then they put him to the hospital before a month. They almost died. And then he came out, and he joined the Union Army, and they became like a super soldier. So this guy, he just with no balls, had like the most balls of anybody in the entire Civil War. So, Joey, what have you done with your life? Yeah. Then that, and that's just like the first thing he did. Like, right? Yeah, that was his opener. That's his opener. Exactly. And then,

you know, he's like a super passionate abolitionist, right? Like, he's very loud about he hating slavery and stuff. Yeah. And so then Lincoln's killed and he's like, really fired up about it. So he joins the chase for Booth. And he's the guy who chases John Wook's to a barn 12 days later, and they were supposed to arrest him because there's a big conspiracy like we were talking about before, and instead of arresting him,

God tells him to shoot him in the head, so he does. And then everybody's like, Boston, what the fuck did you? And then they arrest Boston, and they're going to, like, put him in jail and court martial him, but then he gets back to D.C.

And they have, like, a Super Bowl parade for him because he's a national hero, because he's the guy who killed the guy who killed Lincoln. Yeah. And so he becomes, like, an overnight celebrity. And then he starts touring the country in theaters,

like replacing Edwin, essentially, like reenacting the assassination of John Wilkes Booth, like explaining how he did it and stuff. But he's crazy and his show sucked and like that's like known. Like it's written like there's like reviews of it. Oh really? How bad it is? Just about what a fucking nightmare sitting through one of Boston's rambling shows were.

Because he was very crazy, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. He's pretty interesting, I think. It's so interesting. It's so interesting. How did, so wait, how did he, and if you're going to spoil it because I'm not up to this

part. How does he and Edwin hook up? They never do. Oh, they don't? They never do. It's sort of like, I kind of structured it like Devil in the White City. It's sort of two parallel stories. So it's Edwin's story, but they have so many crossovers and so much in common and so many

things. And the only way they do cross over in a way at the end is they for sure knew about each other. And the booths wrote about, like thank God for Boston. Right. Because they prevented the family from getting dragged through a trial. and everything like that, right?

So the family was, like, kind of grateful to Boston. But that Boston, this goes back to there always been conspiracy theories. Yeah. People in the South started this, like, QAnon-style rumor that John wasn't actually dead, right? That Boston had killed the wrong guy. So sometimes people would tell Boston that, and he would get really mad at him and pull guns on him, you know, just like where... He pulled guns on everybody, this guy. He pulled guns on everybody.

Who's his go-to? Yeah, yeah. So, but then, because he was so mercury poisoned, he actually, like, started to believe it then? And he was like, well, wait a minute, maybe he had a point. Maybe John, maybe I did kill the wrong guy. Even though he's like going around the country, he testified in the trial. He's like going around the country telling the story

about specifically how he killed John Wook's Booth. And then some troll sends him a letter like a hate mail from John Wook's Booth saying I'm coming to get you, right? Oh, no. And he believes it, right? And so he freaks out because it's like, and by the way, if you just delve into the logic of that is like, oh my God, John Wook's Booth is not,

is not dead, and he is coming to get me, and he's super mad at me for killing him. Why would John Wooksboot be mad at Boston? Like, the only reason would be because he killed me. There's just absolutely, you know, this is 12 years after he did that, right? But he's just so crazy at this point that he just picks up and just flees, and he, like, flees to Kansas and literally digs a gigantic hole in the ground and moves into the hole and just lives there with two guns pointed at the opening of the hole,

like waiting for John Wook's booth to show up. I love this guy. Yeah, it's fascinating. And then he does other crazy shit. It gets blocked into an insane asylum. There's all kinds of cool stuff. And he busts out later. Oh, really?

Yeah, he busts out of the asylum. All kinds of interesting shit happens is this guy. Now, I don't want to put a show business spin on it just because we're all in show business. But this is a movie. Oh, yeah. We're on strike, Tom. Can we talk about the future? We're on strike.

We could at some point, maybe. when we're not on a strike, but I would love to. I mean, it would be a lot of fun. And other, I mean, the characters are so.

Show business people have said that to me too, which is nice. Yeah. Yeah, I would be absolutely. The characters are so great. I mean, even even the Booth family.

Yeah. The Booth's father. Because the dad. The dad was this amazing actor to start with. Martin Shee. Yeah, or like the Douglases.

Like Kirk Douglas. Yeah. And then Michael and then the other son, Eric. Emilia Estabest. He was kind of not good. You know? Like.

So it was like that kind of dynamic, right? Because John was shitty. But Edwin was great. And his dad was also like a crazy man, but also like a big huge celebrity. Yeah. Yeah. So I just love, I love just hearing how they toured. Like how they would have to tour.

Yeah. Oh, you mentioned Charleston when they go to Charleston. Yeah. And I have a show in Charleston in like a month. Uh-huh. And I was just thinking like, For me to complain about getting on a flight and being there. Because otherwise you're just like hacking it through the woods.

You know what I mean? So like a carriage would be a nightmare. So they just steamshiped around the East Coast. Yeah. Yeah. To go do a show. Yeah. Right.

You know what I mean? And they all said to bring all their bullshit with them too. Yeah. Their trunk filled with all their props. You like when a theater like booked the most famous actor, Edwin or his dad, like, they didn't have anything. So they're like, what do you want to do? Yeah. And they go like, I guess I'll do Hamlet.

then they would just bring a crown and a skulls and whatever with them, you know? This is the ultimate casting. You find a Hollywood family. Yeah. And you cat, like the bridges. Cast them as. The bridges, all the bridges or the Cusacks or the. Alex Baldwin would be a good father.

Or the Baldwin's, right? Like everyone gets cast. Yeah. And the family plays. Yeah. Wait, who's the one that has a, who's the one the, that, oh, God, not the Cusacks. Not the bridges. The Hemsworths?

Who are we talking about? Thank you. Oh, the quades. I'm thinking. Oh, yeah, because there's a crazy. That's a crazy. Except Randy was like the better actor back in the day. Right.

Right. But he doesn't have his balls either. There's no exact. I didn't know that. There's no exact equivalent. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly.

Okay. For Sutherland and Donald. That's right. But there's never been like that. There's pieces of it, right? Because there are like brothers and one of them sucks. Right. And then there's famous dad.

But like, no. but the Estevez Sheens aren't as famous. You know what I mean? Like they're not as good. And what was the thing when Lincoln could have gone west? Oh, yeah. Because that was connected to the booths. That's a thing I learned research in this book, too.

That blew my mind when I learned this. So you've heard about the Donner Party, right? Of course. Lincoln was like going to go with them, right? They left from Springfield, like Lincoln's hometown, Springfield, Illinois. And he like knew all of them. He knew the whole Donner Party. Yeah.

So there were two guys who's like wagon train it was who were like putting it together to like head out west because everybody's going west to go to California. Yeah. And so they're like, come on, let's all go. And he had been a war buddy of the one dude and James Reed. So he was like, yeah, fuck it.

I'll go with you guys. But Mary Todd, his wife, had a baby. And she was like, get the fuck out of here. We're not going on a wagon train in the winter in the mountains. Are you nuts? So she wouldn't let him go.

So they went without him. And then she was like, well, you just sit around being a lawyer. Like, why don't you run for office? And so that's, that's why he that was like such a divergent path for him he could have been either been our most beloved president or eaten by his neighbors exactly yeah so it was just fascinating it's so fascinating yeah you know what's so great about the book and i was thinking about as i was reading it or you're

writing really is that uh it's so descriptive without being descriptive like you you have a great way even just now in telling that you you you bring us in and how to us paint the picture of like where they're going and what's happening but you don't go into like oh they walked into the barn and it was this oh right you're just telling the story of the facts that that are happening and you're being funny about it but and you create this place without it's it's really just comes chalked up to good writing thank you very much really i had thought about because i'd never written a book before and i just read a bunch of books you know like to get ready to get ready like not the whole book but i would like read the openings of a bunch of books you know like anything

that's like a historical fiction thing or whatever. I feel like, how do you start a book? Because I'd never started a book. And I, there's a lot of what you're saying. And I was like, it doesn't feel like me. Like to just describe how the snow was falling and all that shit. It's like, I'm not. You never do that.

No, but like my strong suit is like amusing people around a table with like, hey, do you guys ever hear this about? That's kind of where my strong suit lies. So I just thought, like, I just write it the way to talk, I guess. Yeah. Which has bothered two people. on script. It's got,

it's a lot of positive, it's got like 150, some five star reviews. Oh nice. And it's being dragged down by two, one star reviews from two cranks

who are like too much swearing. But that's our only problem with it. It's like, it's funny, but there's too much swearing. That's so they both, I shouldn't read the reviews. No,

you shouldn't. I know, but I'm literally here thinking like, wait, someone's reviewing my book somewhere. I know, but I've never written a book and I wouldn't see.

I didn't know. I thought this could be, I really, wrote it because I was you know Keith Alberstadt? Yeah. I wrote it like for Keith. That's who I, because he's like the only other guy I know who's like enjoys comedy and history as much

as I do. So I was like, well, at least he'll like it. Maybe some people who like drug history. But I didn't expect there to be like a incredibly wide audience for this book. I was like, I don't know, whatever, people like comedy.

But so I did was pleased to see all these strangers who I don't know who were like, yeah. This is really funny. And so I was like, oh, cool. And then I can't help, but it just sticks with me these two.

Yeah, your parents wrote those. show and there's like one guy and I have a lot. I know. I know. Yeah. That's why you don't read them. Yeah, I know. But anyway. Yeah. But yeah. So. Can I tell you another way that you and I are connected? Yes. I'd love to.

Do you remember writing for Joan Rivers? Yes. Do you want that too? So I was on that and they had some shooting in New York and I couldn't make it because I was already booked up to do stand-up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so when the show was that we were gearing up, they were like, hey, you know, this is the schedule. And I go, oh, I can't get out of these gigs. And of course it's New York.

And I wanted to go to New York. But then they said they got you. And I was like, I just met this guy. Oh, cool. I just met him at the Saget roast. And so you did the shoot dates. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you know there was this show that we both worked on. How many did you do? We shot for months. So did you go to like the Hawaiian Tropic Guys house? Yes. That's amazing. So this show was a really delightful. Lightful premise.

So you know what Lifestyles of Rich and Famous was, right? Yeah. So it was like Robin Leach would go to like old money people. Yeah. And then just like blow them in a hot tub about how great they are. Right. Joan Rivers version was she would go to the houses of like new money people. People who like became a millionaire in a goofy way, like the inventor of the snuggy or some shit like that.

And then she'd go to their house and just make fun of them. You know what I mean? So it was like the Joan Rivers version of Lifestyles of Rich and Vision Vegas. It's called How'd You Get So Rich. It was really fun. It was on TV land. It's funny. And, uh, yeah.

So I got to do a couple of them, I guess, because you couldn't. Yeah. Thank you. Well, no, but I was so happy it was you. I was like, oh my gosh, he's so good. He's so funny. Yeah, I was so thrilled. Well, it was a cool get too because he went to work with Joan Rivers, right?

Yeah. Oh, my God. We went to Mrs. Fields house, the lady who makes the cookies. Yes. You ever seen Mrs. Fields, by the way? No. Describe her to me. Go ahead.

You, having never seen her, describe Mrs. Fields. I would say, like, one of those waspy hairdoes. Uh-huh. Like a strawberry waspy hairdo. Okay. A dress with a floral, floral prints. Okay. But, like, what age?

What? 65. Yeah. Okay. That's what they want you to think. Yeah. Mrs. Fields was like a smoking hot 30-year-old. She was, for real.

She looked like Kathy Ireland, right? Yeah. No. This surprisingly, like, disarmingly attractive young lady who started making cookies when she was, like, 17 out in Santa Monica or something, and then got it in some moles. What? And then it took off.

No way. By the time I was at her house, she was probably like 40-something. But like she was like oddly like a like a very hot. Hot. Gorgeous. Like playboying than the felt hats. Yeah, it was very surprising. But so she like made us cookies in her own oven, which is not a euphemism.

She said it's like a real thing that she did. And it was really cool because I just didn't know anybody and I just like was sitting on her diving board at lunch. Yeah. By myself eating a sandwich. And then Joe came over and sat on the diamond board with me. It was like, hey, you were a comedian, right? And I just started telling me stories about Richard Pryor, like completely unsolicited. Wow.

Because I think she just knew, this young comic will think this is cool. And I sure did. It was amazing. That is the thing about Joan Rivers, which we always talk about, is that because of all the QVC stuff, and because she did everything. Yeah. She just didn't stop working. If there was an opportunity, she took it and just went. People don't realize what a hardcore comic she was.

She was pure. comedian at her core. Yeah. I mean, really, like that is, and all the extra stuff, people like, Joan Rivers, like that, no, no, no, no. It was like. Yeah, and that's what she would rather be doing kind of in a way. It's like, you know, like, of all the people that she knew on that

set, she just like, came over to me and started talk about stand-up, which was like, really cool. Like, it was an amazing. So-com. Do you remember how she wanted you to pitch jokes to her? The way I did it was, I don't know if this It changed every week for me. So I'm in Mrs. Fields' house and also in Donald Trump's fucking office.

the other one I have. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, which that's another dumb story. But I am just scribbling half-finished jokes on a whiteboard and then holding them up while she's in the middle of a conversation. She's talking to Mrs. Fields, and I'm like, oh, that's what Mrs. Fields just said, I just quickly jot down a punchline and show it to her off camera. And she would like, latch at it and seamlessly and then punch it up, like make it better. You know what I mean? It'd be like, fuck, man, that's an amazing skill. So she's really sharp. Is that what you did? I'm impressed to your handwriting so good. Every week was something new. So do you have to do the whiteboard version of it?

So sometimes I would do cue cards. Sometimes she wanted me to whisper it in her ear. Oh, yeah. Sometimes I had to pitch the jokes beforehand. Whispering a joke in someone's ear and the whole of the con. That's the worst. It was nuts. And every week it was different.

And then every week she would, there were two writers. And every week she would fire the other writer. And so every week I'm like, I'm next. I am next. And I was pregnant with my first kid at the time. So I'm on my hands and knees writing these cue cards, the jokes that I pitched her and that she okayed. Yeah.

And I'm on my hands and knees and the smell of that. Marker. Really sharp, you know, like, and then I want to just vomit. And I just hear her click, click, clack, clack, clack heels coming down. We were in a massive mansion. This is the biggest house I've ever been in. Which person was it? It was outside of Atlanta, Georgia.

Outside of Atlanta. So was it the snuggy person? Or who, like, which? No, he invented some crazy bullshit, like the ends of your shoe laces, you know, like some little plastic that goes on the end of your shoelaces and now he's a multi-billionaire. This house was massive, so she's like, click, clack, click, click. And I go, oh, here come her Manolo, Blonics. And I'm going to, I wanted to vomit on top of them, but I couldn't tell anyone I was pregnant

because it was the first three months. Oh, yeah. And sometimes she was in a mood. I don't know if you ever saw her in her moods. and she kicked the cue card that I was writing on. So the marker just went all across it. And she wrote, I mean, she said, write bigger. And I'm just like green.

And I was scared of her every single day, every day. So the fact that she went over to you, I'm like so chit-chatty. I'm like, sorry. No, that's okay. That's okay. You're a tall glass of water. I get it. I'm just like, you know, a jude.

that probably reminds her of herself in her childhood or some shit. And so I was just, I, and then one day she and I got into it. Oh, no. We fought on set, yes. What? We fought on set in front of everybody. With Joan Rivers. With Joan Rivers.

I was like, do you remember what the fight was about? A joke. Okay. A joke that I pitched her that I thought would have been perfect and she didn't use it. She's like, I don't have any jokes in this. And so I pitched it again in front of the whole crew while we had some downtime. Everybody laughed. and I go, it's funny.

And I, I know. But I already was in such a mood. You know what I mean? Like, when you're in those first three months of being pregnant and like you're, you know, I'm not saying she was my idol, but Joan Rivers is yelling at you, a legend. And I was like, I'm fired. I'm next. She's firing everybody every week.

I'm next. And the minute I challenged her and she was like, all right, it's funny. So everyone laughed. Okay, fine, you win. And she did it once we started shooting again, you know? And it worked, you know, like he was a hair care guy. We were in the house of some hair care guy who was a bazillionaire. It was out in Malibu.

And it worked, like the guy started laughing. And she's like, you know, being her regular Joan self, like, you know, she looked at me off camera. And I was just like, I can't even make eye contact. I still thought I was fired, even though it worked. I'm like, I'm done. Yeah. I'm done. I'm done.

He's like, well, you knew this day was coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I stayed on for, you know. Did she ever bring that up again? Did she ever go like, well, sorry, kid, I got a little heated, but you were right. Nope. No, okay. No, but she was much nicer to me after that.

There's some people that if you do kind of stand up, I'm not saying anyone should do this because it could totally backfire. Yeah. But sometimes it depends on the person, you stand up for yourself. And they're like, All right, you got Moxie, kid, you know, and it works. Wow. I shut down the Joan Rivers Roast with a joke that Greg did. Oh, yeah.

And, yeah, so there was the one rule that she had was don't make fun of Melissa, right? Which everybody else's rules, other than Donald Trump, his rules were fucking dumb. But, like, most of the time, like, Bob Sagga was like, don't make fun of the Olson twins. And it was like, yeah, fine, sure. Right. That's very reasonable, you know. Like, people have, like, reasonable usually, like, you know, like, stay off. this topic.

But like Jones was like, don't make fun of Melissa, but it's like, well, I don't know, Melissa's like a public figure. Yeah. And like you made her. You know what I mean? Fair game. You brought her into all this shit. So even though that was like the rule, I thought it won and I gave it to Greg and he

really liked it. So he did it anyway, even though it was like understood that we shouldn't. And the joke was, because I found out they had the same plastic surgeon. Uh, shit. Joan had the same plastic surgeon as Michael Jackson. Uh-huh. And so I was like, you know, a lot of Greg's jokes were like, like, multi-layered, you know, so it was like, you guys have a lot in common.

You both are, you've spent millions of dollars to look like a creepy old white lady. You're both more popular now that you're dead. And you both raise the chimp, right? And Melissa stormed off, like the production. They had to stop and get her back. And then she goes up, right? Which wasn't part of the thing. But if you watch the road, that joke is cut out.

And Melissa goes up. And all she really does is go, hey, thanks everybody for being here. fuck you Greg Geraldo. That's it. And that's like all she did. Whoa. And that's the response to that joke that one saw. Yeah, yeah.

Because otherwise it's a great joke. Why would she just take a shot of Greg like that? That's a funny joke. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. The book is killing the guys who killed the guy who killed Lincoln, a nutty story about Edwin Booth and Boston Corbett.

It's so good. Thanks, man. And you're right. You know, I really was like, no, don't ruin the ending for me when you were saying like it's a spoiler, it's history. But you dropped a couple of things, but I still want to read it. There's plenty that I have not. It doesn't have that effect. Yeah. There's a lot.

And to me, the, the, the interesting stuff is in the very specific details, you know? So, yeah. I'm not giving you all those. I'm telling you broad strokes of what happened. I love, but there's all kinds of stuff saying little. The first laugh I had was you just calling, you're just describing Lincoln at the theater. wearing his inconvenient hat. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like having to sit in a theater behind that fucking dumb hat.

It is just, how dare you? Did more people wear that hat? The audacity, sir. Or was he just like... Well, supposedly he, like kept stuff in it, right? Like his speech notes, you know, and probably a bird and a can of soup and whatever. Like, he just would use it for storage.

So, and I think it did kind of become his little trademarky thing, you know? For sure. So I think... But, like, were other people wearing it and he just made it famous? I mean... I don't. think anybody's wearing such an absurdly tall version of that, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Some people, but like, like you see them in gangs of New York. I don't know if the costume designers had a couple of those yet, but like, yeah, that's a really bold choice. Like a lot of people had top hats, but that one's a giant stupid hat. I just love such a small phrase with inconvenient hat. Thank you very much. It's very funny. Thanks a lot.

But the book is great. How can people get it? So it's a script exclusive, which scribed, I don't know if you know, it's like the Netflix of books is going to deposit themselves, right? So it's just this library of e-books and audio books, and there's millions and millions of them. And you just, you subscribe, and then you have access,

and unlimited access to, like, their entire library, just like Netflix. And there's newspapers and magazines and books. And there's, like, you know, just books that have been published, but then they also have originals. And Stephen King has done originals for them, Margaret Atwood, and then, like, nobody's like me you get to do one and stuff sometimes.

Oh, nice. And so you would have to join Scrib, but with this code, which is try. dot Scrib S-C-R-I-B-D. Try.com slash Jesse Joyce. You get two months free. Oh, nice. So you can sign up for free for two months,

then you can cancel, and you can technically just read the book for free if you want to do. All right, very cool. But they're counting on the fact that you might check out some of the other stuff and go, like, this is actually pretty cool. Or forget your password and just pay them forever. Yeah, exactly. Like I do with all my children's games.

Right. Just scour my social media, look for my kids' birthdays, and that's how you'll get to the bottom of it. Yeah. Yeah, there's some, there's some, there's some, thing that my daughter signed up for when she was four and she made up her own password and I still am being charged.

Oh, because you don't know what it is? I can't get all like, it's not animal farm but it's something like that. And it's, I just keep paying forever until they were out of business. That's the story he tells us. He likes those ABC mouse games. Do you guys know Troy Walker? He's a comedian.

He's a writer on Kimmel with me. Yeah. Really funny dude. Anyway, he at the beginning of the pandemic, He signed up for one of those like Wine of the Month things or whatever Where for like 20 bucks you get three bottles of wine Yeah And then he just I guess somehow forgot about it

And then when the strike happened He suddenly started paying more attention to his Life finances right Because he's like fuck what am I spending money on And then he sees that he's can And he was like that thing That was like three years ago And he realized he's been charged for this every month

Oh my God Because the way that thing works is you have to actively go and pick the bottles of wine. If you don't do that, then you don't get them. But he's already paid for them, and he tried to call them, and they're like, no, but it's your wine. So he had to, like, order 380 bottles of wine at once, and they sent them to his little, he's a single guy, to his apartment.

He just has, like, a winery now at his house because he just had to get them all at one time. It's an amazing. That is brilliant. So, yeah, if you're running Troy Walker, he's got a free bottle of wine for you, I'm sure. Well, it's time for, you know, wine garage sale, I think. He's just on his lawn. Exactly.

You want to pair it with shrimp? Okay, let me see what I have. Anyway, what a fun. Oh, this was great. Yeah. Oh, thanks. This was a blast. Yeah, it's really nice to catch up with you guys.

So good. I can't wait to read the rest of the book. Thank you very much. We're so glad you're not working right now. Yeah. So you have time to come in. Well, it has been kind of, like, it's a real bummer. And nobody's working in my house.

But at the same time, you know, like, yeah, I would never get to do this otherwise. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. It's really nice. We got it, Joey. Well, that's it, kids. That was Jesse Joyce. Go get his book.

We're going to put a description or a link. Joey, you know what to do. I blacked out when he started saying it because I'm like, Joey's got to do this or it's not happening. Go to Tompapa.com. Look up all of the tour dates. We are going to San Francisco in Salt Lake City next week. Very exciting.

I've performed to the palest. of Fine Arts. You have. In high school, I played the cello poorly at the Palace of Fine Arts. I hope I'd do a better job this time. Me too. Not confirmed, but there's a high possibility that four ounce will be with us. We may have figured out how to get the new book to the venues.

We haven't been doing book signings the last couple of times because it's the new book. It's a whole thing. So I think we figured it out, right, Joey? Yeah, yeah. So that means you are going to be there. That's exciting. Very exciting. Wait to see Joey on the road. Oh, quite a thing. Is it a whole different Joey? It's like watching, you ever see when a, you ever see when a horse gives birth and the little splatter comes out? Yeah. And then the the baby horse immediately has to try and stand and go gallop. Yeah. That's Joey. I can't. can't wait. It's like watching a miracle unfold. Oh, God is good. Enjoy everybody. We'll see you next time.