Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 214 - Carrie Morey

Episode Date: June 13, 2024

Carrie Morey talks all things bread and breaks in our studio's oven. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- About Carrie: Carrie Morey founded her handmade biscuit business in 2005 with the goal of making the tender, buttery, made-by-hand biscuits of her mother accessible across the country. Over 15 years later, Callie’s Hot Little Biscuit is widely recognized as an iconic Southern brand with national retail exposure, grab-and-go eateries and a food truck in Charleston, as well as a cult-like national following. Carrie is the author of two cookbooks: Callie’s Biscuits and Southern Traditions, a cookbook and narrative on entrepreneurship and life in the Lowcountry, and Hot Little Suppers, a guide to cooking with families and friends. She also stars in the culinary docu-series, How She Rolls, about biscuits, business, and balance in her life as an entrepreneur streaming now on PBS, AppleTV, and Prime Video. Touted by Saveur, Food & Wine, Southern Living, The New York Times, Bake from Scratch, and Oprah among others, Carrie and her small team of bakers are keeping the tradition of Southern biscuit making alive. Carrie has appeared live on the NBC Today Show, The Martha Stewart Show, Fox & Friends, The Hallmark Channel, Top Chef About Tom: Tom Papa, a celebrated stand-up comedian with over 20 years in the industry, has made significant strides in film, television, radio, podcasts, and live performances. Notably, he's a regular on "The Joe Rogan Experience" and various late-night TV shows. Papa's literary skills are evident in his books “We’re All In This Together” and "You’re Doing Great!: And Other Reasons To Stay Alive," a collection of essays, and "Your Dad Stole My Rake: And Other Family Dilemmas," a comedic look at family life. His latest stand-up specials are “Tom Papa: What A Day!” and "Tom Papa: You’re Doing Great!" on Netflix. Beyond comedy, Papa's engagements extend to hosting "What A Joke With Papa And Fortune" on SiriusXM and appearing on NPR's "Wait, Wait Don’t Tell Me." His love for baking led to hosting the Food Network series "Baked." As an actor, he's worked with notable figures like Rob Zombie and Steven Soderbergh and has appeared in several films and TV shows, including the HBO film "Behind the Candelabra." Additionally, Papa has contributed as a writer to projects like "Bee Movie" and various TV series. Residing in Los Angeles with his family, Papa continues to balance his professional life with personal interests like baking. Get in touch with or go see Tom live on stage! Radio, Podcasts and more: https://linktr.ee/tompapa/ Website - http://tompapa.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tompapa Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/tompapa Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/comediantompapa #TomPapa #breakingbreadwithTomPapa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus And even my mom She was the food one, you were the business one Yes And then she split Yeah. Well, we were going to kill each other. So it was one of us had to go.

It's time for breaking bread with Papa. Hey. Don't you know? Hey. It's also a show. Hey. So nice to see you. So nice to see you.

I'm sorry about Los Angeles. I'm glad to be here, but I am mortified that I was very late. No. Not for us. Don't even worry about it. In the South, you know, everything is like 20, 30 minutes. Like, that is a thing, but that is not my thing. Right.

I mean, you don't know me, but I promise. That is not my thing. Yeah, no, it's fine. We were just hanging out anyway. It's nice to see you sincerely. As someone who bakes a bunch and always has in the back of his brain, like, how can I get this bread to people? How can I have people asking all the time, can you give me bread? And you're, you did it. You actually. created this amazing company that takes beautiful bake goods and got them to people. I don't know how you did it. And that's why you're here. We're stealing your business plan, really. You can have it. You can have it. That is the big reveal.

You may have it. Yeah, I'm done. It is, you know, I think back, it's been 19 years. And it didn't start out as me wanting to be in every neighborhood grocery store in America. Right. But I've realized that there is not a better product. And I don't say that in a way of being obnoxious. But I truly, I believe that our biscuits are the best biscuits in the country.

They're so good. Thank you. Thank you. I was like, well, this is pretty, and we made them yesterday. Yeah. And we did the blueberry one and the buttermilk. Thank you. And I've also was like, you know, trying to find like a good biscuit recipe.

And I, the buttermilk one, I, it has that thing, that home style satisfaction when you eat it and then like it kind of lingers. Yeah. In that buttery goodness. Oh, I love this. Oh, man, they really pulled it off. Thank you. Because, you know, we've got some stuff sent to us, you know, and it comes close, not,

not with biscuits, but food that, you know, that they send along like, oh, it's just like, and usually isn't. Yours was. Yeah, it was really good and very dangerous. Dangerous. Well, everything in moderation. I mean, I probably at least a biscuit a day and I'm here. I'm in fair shape.

Great shape. I think that everyone should have a biscuit a day. Maybe not more than one. Yeah. But you should have one. I know, but yours are also, they're also, at the size where you're like, that's not really one. It is.

Two or three. That is part of our problem. As Americans, we have, you know, supersized everything. I know. I always say six is the perfect amount for your family's supper table, unless you're, you know, a larger family. And that is, you should enjoy it life and enjoy every bite. I know.

Now, your mom was the one who was the biscuit baker. So my mom is Callie. She had a catering business while I was growing up, and she makes all kinds of food. I mean, she makes Indian, Asian, you know, Mexican, but she always made these country ham biscuits, which in the South, that is a thing. Yeah. A ham biscuit is at every party in the South. What is it?

What is a ham biscuit? It is, in her case, it was a cheddar biscuit that she sliced in the middle. And most people would just put a slice of either Virginia ham or country ham. is cured in salt, so it's very savory. But, you know, if you're standing at a cocktail party and you take a bite of a ham biscuit, the whole ham comes out of your mouth and you're left with a biscuit, ham hanging in a cocktail dress. It doesn't work.

So she said, well, I'm going to chop the ham. And then that way you get ham in every bite. It's a little bit more elegant. She put a Dijon mustard butter in the center. And it just became this thing where every time, I was always the server from the time I was 12 until, you know, 30. Right. And people would.

say, where do I get this? And so I think that started this, you know, you can't cater forever. I want to be involved in the food world, but I don't want to own a restaurant because I want to have a lifestyle where I can raise our daughters. And I had a problem to solve. I wanted to start my own business so I could be at home with our girls. And so I said in 2005, let's start a mail order country ham biscuit business. And people weren't really doing that back then. I mean, it was slowly starting. No one was doing it. And you know what else? one was buying them because we were online. I mean, there wasn't, it just, I was way before my time. Yeah. Yeah. But that was okay because I was also raising our daughters. And we had three right in a row. And so it was

kind of this perfect pace and marriage of I got to work a little and kind of dream about what I wanted this to be. And it was a very slow role. So was the catering, watching your mom running the catering, Did you get an idea of how to make in bulk and how to? Yes. She's the one that would, she always made them in bulk and she would freeze them. So I knew that they could be frozen. In fact, like, I would never be allowed a biscuit right out of the oven. She'd be like, no, those are for the party next week. Right.

So people wouldn't know that they weren't fresh out of the oven. So that was part of the idea. Well, if we could make them in bulk and make them ahead, then we could freeze them and sell them. Right. Right. She thought it was a horrible idea. She's like, nobody is going to buy these. And what is the Internet?

You know, that's a hard thing to imagine in 2004. She said, nobody is going to buy these and they're made by hand. And that's partly, well, really mainly why they taste so good. Because we still make them by hand. Right. Yeah, I saw on YouTube making them. Yeah. It's impressive.

But it's all people in there. It's all people. Yeah. Yeah. We have about 12 bakers and they literally pour five-pound bags. of flour into big bowls and we mix them all together and stamp them like crazy and we can make you know 20,000 a day. 20,000 a day.

What? Yeah. Yeah. It's a quick bread. So biscuits shouldn't take. It's not like a yeasted bread where you have to wait for it to rise. It happens immediately. And so, you know, but I mean, any biscuit manufacturer would tell you they could make a million

biscuits in a day. So I'm tiny, tiny, tiny compared to the other biscuit companies in America. Right. I don't think I've done 20,000 of anything in a day. In your life. Productive at all, zero. Now, when you make biscuits at home, it's always keep the butter cold. I never do that.

And be really quick about it. And get into this biscuit panic because you're like, they don't want you to handle the butter too much and have it soften. so it doesn't so when you bake it it's going to release and and fluff up yeah i mean we don't we don't freeze our butter we don't grade it in we've never done that i i don't see a difference in in the summer our best our butter is softer and in the winter it's firm right and i don't see a difference yeah so i'm here to kind of debunk that myth i don't know if you it's been keeping us up at night i mean who's going to grate frozen butter into a bowl of flour i mean i i understand it for dough. Right. But not for biscuits. Yeah. Damn it. What's your favorite biscuit? The buttermilk. The buttermilk is the base of

everything and it is so versatile. So it can be breakfast, lunch, dinner, it can be, you know, stuffed with things. It can be topped with things. It can be on top of a casserole. It can be a crouton. It's just everything. Right. And the flavor of the buttermilk and the cream cheese and the way that those two, the acidity just pops. I don't know. It's just so good. That blueberry ones... You like it?

Yeah, I really love blueberry. I was making blueberry scones for a while. Yes. Anything with blueberry. We didn't speak during that period. Oh, man, that's really true. We fought. What?

She hates scones. I feel... I'm not a scone person. They just suck all the moisture out of your face. That's a bad scones. No. And that little tin-tiny taste after-taste that on my tongue, I can't stand it.

Now, I have a question for you. On top of French onion soup, what is that? Is that a biscuit? No. What's the, there's like a bread. The floating bread. Yeah, it can be a piece of French bread. It can be any bread.

No, there's this. And then they cover it with greyer. Right. And then they broil it. Right. But I feel like that's biscuit bread. Well, I mean, I make mine with biscuit, though, but most people don't. No.

Because when that break up? more than like a... The French place down the street from here, they put a big huge biscuit on top. Really? Massive. It's like a hat.

I love hearing this. Yes. In California, a biscuit on top of the French onion suit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want the address, I'm going. Well, here's the thing about L.A. They all act like they don't like bread and they all act like they don't eat food,

but they all secretly binge. I'm glad to hear this. Yeah. I'm glad to hear this because we are finally on the West Coast, which is why I'm here. Right. This is such a big deal, and everyone keeps saying, well, people in L.A. don't eat bread. And I thought, well, how could that be? I mean, bread is, it's essential. I think all I've eaten today is bread.

A hundred percent. That was my big thing. My big thing when I started baking bread and I fell in love with it, making like real sourdough bread. And I had these friends that were like, I can't, I'm gluten. I'm like, I was like, why is it that bread's been around for thousands of years? And then, I was, I would, I had these friends that. then we show up and it's the worst thing that you can possibly eat. Because people eat too much of it. And they don't eat real bread. Correct. They don't eat real bread.

They don't make them and they eat weight more than they should. So anytime you eat anything more than you said, you're going to have a stomach egg. Right. Absolutely. When I do too much meth, it is a nightmare. You know, meth in moderation, that's always what, what? And you have a problem with scones.

I love that. Here's the thing. L.A. has, I mean, come on, eight. million people. People eat bread here. There's a small tiny percentage. And I'm not even in that person. I'm like medically, I don't eat it. But like there is a small percentage that for more vanity and they feel like, well, I have to get ready for my next movie or whatever. I get that. But everyone here eats a lot. I didn't hear anything you just said because I'm starting to smell the biscuits. I know. I smell them too. So do you think one of your daughters might want to

take over the biscuit business. Do you see one of them kind of moving in, making strides? I don't think so. No, not into it. They've all worked for me with me currently. They all work at our little restaurants in Charleston. Right. And I want them to have their own dream.

Yeah. You know, they've grown up in it. And so it's not an easy business. And I've really encouraged them. You've got to find your own passion. Like this is my dream and I'm happy to let you be a part of it, but I don't want you just taking over my dream because it's not your dream. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. So what does it mean that you've expanded into California? So that means, is it difficult to do? Is it like a timing thing? Like, how does that work? Well, it's difficult to do in that we needed to find the right partner. And so Whole Foods was the partner that was the best choice for us because we had proven ourselves on the East Coast in Whole Foods and knew that they would be the right. partner to come out here.

And they have such a big presence here. And their customer is our customer. So it's not easy to get into Whole Foods nationally. It takes a lot, especially for a small company like me. I mean, you know, if you're a bigger brand, then maybe you have an easier time. But it's financially not easy. And it's also, it's a beast. So you really need to know what you're doing and you need to have like good representation.

A beast. What do you mean? A beast, how? Um, you know, it's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition, but it's just the, the machine of whole foods is, it is, it's, it's, it's unbelievable. I mean, it's, it's cut through it. Like, you've got to prove yourself. You've got to make sure that the sales are there.

You've got to make sure that people know about you and in bigger cities like this. Yeah. That's not easy to do when you're a little southern biscuit company. Right. So. Yeah. But I like a challenge. So.

Yeah. Yeah. you've got to be, I mean, how, you really didn't have, you're learning as your go, right? Yeah, I was an elementary education major. I have no business being in this business, zero. And by the way, I'm not a baker. And I was not classically trained in any culinary other than in the South. You know, we raise the women to be good cook.

So I had a lot of that. I love the pictures of your, I think it's your mom and your grandmother. Those are such great shots. in your book. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Beautiful.

Yeah. I mean, we've been raised to sit at the breakfast table and talk about what are we going to have for lunch and lunch talk about what we're going to have for supper. And when our cocktails happening, I mean, that is just the, it's like in our blood. Yeah. So I knew that I wanted to be a part of feeding people. I just needed to figure out how to make it happen. And because the Internet was taking so long to come along with my idea of being a mail order

company. I started selling to locally owned grocery stores. Like one of my oldest retailers here is Vicente Foods. It's in Pacific Palisades. Right. Yeah. And I don't know how I got so lucky, but they found us and they've been carrying our biscuits forever. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. Well, the Palisades, they have a clientele that wants something different. You know, they want to get things that are not just. That's where all the movie stars live. Yeah, yes. I used to actually work for someone out in the Palisades. So they were always about like, find me something that's like a biscuit with sea salt. You know what I mean?

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And you've got to taste everything, too. have that satisfying biscuit thing at the end that we were talking about earlier but in a cracker. I love that. But these did not exist before you. So because we make the biscuits by hand, we don't ever stamp after the second rollout because the dough becomes very tough. The gluten is working and it's just too tough to be a biscuit. Kind of like what you get when you do that can.

That's what the... Right. Can't put it back in. Right. So we were always throwing away about, you know, a decent ball of dough. And so I hated that we were throwing away dough. And I said, let's just roll it really thin and dock it and poke holes in it and bake it and see what happens. And it became this great cracker.

And so we started putting on our catering platters and people were like, what is this? This went on for years. This started in 2018. And then I bought a sheeter and we started making them by hand, but we could only produce in a day like 300 bags, which in my world is, you might as well not even do it. I found a co-manufacturer that does this for a living and has like a massive, you know, tunnel oven and all that. And so we've been, we've worked for the last year developing to make sure that it is the same, but in like a 500 pound batch. And so we decided to launch a line of biscuit crackers. They're so good.

Seasalt, sharp cheddar and everything born out of the leftover scraps of dough. It's so good. Use everything. Yeah. Use everything. And I mean, I love that it's got a crunch. It tastes like a biscuit. It's good enough to have on its own, but also obviously great with things like pomeno cheese and hummus and dill dip and all the things that we love to eat.

It's so good. It really has that satisfying biscuit thing, but it's a cracker. Thank you. This is so nice. So, never mind. I will have a bite. You will? Yes.

Okay. I don't want to kill you. Well, I want you to, if you'll have a bite of the biscuit is what I really wanted. Oh my gosh, it tastes just like a biscuit. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. Everything.

So good. I'm going to steal these bags. Can I take some? Oh, I brought extra spriyal to take home. Okay. I baked you bread. Well, I was wondering, did you see me as soon as we came in? I touched it because I saw you making it last night on Instagram.

Right. And I said, where are the biscuits? Why aren't you making biscuits? Oh, you did? Yes, yes. It's so funny. It's so funny. My daughter, when she was probably 12, she became the biscuit baker in the house.

I love that. Yeah. More drop biscuit. Mm-hmm. And really good. And then she left, and then I, out of this fancy cookbook, made these other biscuits where you kind of fold. Laminate the dough. Laminate the dough.

Like a croissant, like layers. Yeah. And they weren't as popular in the house as her drop biscuits. A drop biscuit is great because if you just drop it, then you get all this texture all over. And so there's crunchy bits everywhere, which is how my grandmother used to make them. And I do love a drop biscuit. Yeah. Big time.

Yeah. So I stopped baking them because I felt like she thought I was coming at her. Yeah. But if you want to take a look at the bread, I mean. I would love to. You can bring it. I know you're out on the road and start. Are you kidding me?

I went to this morning. We went on a hike and we went to this. Oh, my God. Look at how gorgeous. Beautiful. I'm a smeller. Are you a smeller? Okay.

Some people are like, what are you doing? Yeah. I think that's why I kept baking. Oh, my God. Because that smell was in the house all the time. So I just, yeah. What is it? A sourdough?

She is a beautiful. Any thing, though, any bread I smell. That's the first thing I do. Isn't that weird? Yeah. No, not at all. She's gorgeous. You ought to start a sourdough.

business. She's all yours. And you'll really start to not like it. Oh, I know. That's the problem. I know, you know, I started when I tore around and we visited bakeries. And there's always a little bit because people got really excited about it. And as you know, when you start making something and people get excited, you're like,

we should spread this or do something else with this. But then you see how hard that world is, how much work is a lot. It really is. I mean, from the small, like, single bakery to what you're doing. It's a whole life. It is intense. And I don't do it very well, but we're, you know, we're just doing it until. Just keep going. Yeah. I mean, you know, we make mistakes every day and then we get up and go, okay, we're just going to start over and keep going. I don't know what else to do. I'm too far in it now.

All right. If we have a chart of the years and the stress, are we constantly getting more stressful as we become bigger or is it peaked and then you come? No, it's harder. You know, and I think a lot of people that don't. have businesses on their you know aren't entrepreneurs think that the hardest part is starting and and that is hard yeah but as you grow especially if you're trying to scale it CPG consumer package goods grocery store is very very hard and i'm not sure that it is very hard to be a small business and be successful oh yeah so um it just gets harder and and harder and there's no education for it that I'm aware of, I mean, other than just being in it. So when you say it's hard, it's because you have to, like, you have a lot of overhead

or what is it, finding people that can do it. Yeah, I mean, well, in Charleston, I feel like I need to get the biscuits. Go ahead. Is that okay? Yes. Biscuits calling. Whoa. Whoa.

Yeah, biscuits, but Joe, we got biscuits. Wow. They're so cute. They're so sweet. Can you pass me one of those little plates? Yes. So nice. So if it is so much more work to get into the supermarket end of it, it must be lucrative.

That must be why you venture into it rather than just stay as a mail order thing. I think that you... I'll take cinnamon, please. Do you mind? Yeah, go ahead. No, you use your hands. Use your hands. Extra flavor.

Would you like some cinnamon butter? Sure. I don't think you'd say no to that. Yeah. Oh, do we have a little knife, Joey? Any plastic utensils or? I'm not sure if we do. Use your fingers.

Use your fingers. Get in there. You're just expanding into the eating more. It took us forever. Yeah, while you're there. And I feel like, Joe, do you want one? Oh, I'm good. Thank you.

You are? Because they're not vegan. Oh, look at these party forks. Oh, I didn't know you were vegan. I would have made you a vegan biscuit. Oh, it's okay. I actually am making this for tomorrow. Oh, really?

Yeah. Wow, look at you. Happy. Now, let's say you cook these up, right? How long would these last for? You mean like out in the wild? Yes. On your counter?

I mean, I would, so that's the thing about biscuits. They need to be eaten hot. Yeah. So, you know, you can always reheat them. Okay. They're fully baked when you buy them in the, grocery store. So all I did was reheat them and I wrap them in foil because that keeps the moisture in and they don't dry out. Yeah. So I would, if we were to sit here for an hour, I would want you to put them back in

the oven, just, you know, put the foil back on them and reheat them just a little. Okay. You can also, I don't like to do this, but you can, I've never done an air fryer or a microwave, but I hear that you can do that, but I don't do that. Okay, but like. Here's a thing though. Yeah. When you are hanging around on Sunday watching basketball, and your friend dropped off a whole bunch of biscuits at your house. As friends do. And you just pop them in the oven for 20 to 25 minutes, and they're done. And then you have biscuits out.

And if you've made too much for you and your wife to eat, because your children have gone back to school, you could just leave them on the cooling rack all day. Yes. And then when you move into drinking wine, and then you move into now watching Godzilla because the basketball's over. And every time you walk back into the kitchen, you can pick them up and they don't have to be heated because they're so delicious. Just pop them in your mouth as you go.

Do you do wine pairings with your biscuits? Yes, we do. I love a country ham biscuit with champagne. Oh, hello. And I love to put little mini fried chicken in the cheese and chive. Oh, ma'am. Great with a beer or a glass of wine. Yeah, I mean, they are cocktail party ready.

For sure. Yeah. I mean, that's how we started this gig. My mom was doing schlepping, you know, biscuits around to all of her catered parties. And so people went crazy for them. Wow. There's really something to that. Like every great business, and it's no joke.

I mean, we have you here because it's so good. The product is so great. all the good ones, all the real successful ones, they had that origin story of someone was making it, really believed in it, it was their passion, and it was so good that other people started. Without that spark,

you can kind of fake it. Yeah. And I'm sure big companies, you know, process and manipulate our wants. But for these kind of startups, it takes that spark. Well,

and that is kind of what keeps you going. Because it's so hard, and there's so many problems, and there's always a struggle. It's that passion, and that's kind of why I want my girls to figure out what they want to do and not just take over mine,

because they're never going to have the drive that I have. It's just because it isn't their dream, it's mine. Yeah. And even my mom, I mean, it wasn't, my mom thought it was a horrible idea. And she said, you go for it. This is not, I don't think this is going to, I mean, she basically said she didn't believe in it.

And so. Well, you say that in the book, like you started, she was the food one, you were the business one. Yes. And then she split. Yeah. And she left.

Well, we were going to kill each other. So it was one of us had to go. Really? Why? What happened in those days? She, oh my gosh. I mean, she didn't, she wanted to start at noon and let the bakers, you know, bake until three and bring them lunch and give them an hour break and pay them $25 an hour

19 years ago. And they were college kids. Oh, really? Wow. And they weren't actually producing a good product. I mean, it was not anything like what this is. So, you know, she just didn't have the vision that I had. And back then, the vision that I had was not what I have today.

So it wasn't biscuit crackers. And, you know, I wanted to grow a biscuit business, but I had no idea what I was doing. And I didn't know anything about grocery stores. I knew nothing. So, and I still know nothing about grocery stores, but I'm learning by mistakes. I mean, I have a really talented friend of mine who makes pizzas and stuff. And he has a tomato sauce. And it was like this guy's super successful.

But watching him try and get his cans on the shelves, it's so difficult. It is difficult. You're just up against these giant companies. And they will clear you out in a second. They'll just put down what they call slotting and they'll say, no, we don't want all these small companies taking up my space. And it's advertising for them. So they'll just say, we'll pay for that shelf.

And I mean, I can't pay to be on the shelf. Yeah. Wow. It's like being an author. That's the part that nobody knows about the grocery store business. And so, you know, part of me thinks until you get to be that big, you might not be able to be super successful because there's so much of a financial burden that you have to bear. Yeah. And you're not a big, you're not proctor and gamble and all this. And then sometimes the little companies get bought out, don't they?

Yeah. And then they don't want the competition or they see you're doing something a little different. You got to be way bigger than me, but yes. I mean, well, don't sell yourself short. Yes. This is the kind of thing that they would look at and go, huh. She's planning your retirement right now.

Hey, I'm here for it. But then also, then. No joke. When I see a product like yours and I'm like, huh, what's this? I haven't seen this before. I actually am attracted to getting something that's not, I do shop at Whole Foods and sprouts and, you know, and if I see something that's like a little different,

I usually buy it. I want to try it. I love that. Because I don't want to buy the cheeryos. Yep. You know what I mean? I'll buy the little, you know, O-rings or whatever they're called. I think that's a birth control.

Sorry. Anyways, I knew what you meant. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, I'll buy that because it's usually less processed and it's usually it feels more, you know, by hand. And by the way, whenever I think by hand, I think of your joke, Tom, where he does this joke about making cookies with your hands. That's all I think about. with your hands. But I prefer that.

But there's the other side of it where you'll see like a crunchy bag and it looks like kind of small and mom and pop. Yeah. And then you realize, oh, you missed the rise. They've actually already been bought out by Nabisco or something like that. And they kind of kept the thing going. Mm-hmm. Yeah, this is your retirement plan for sure.

Is we get these now into Whole Foods. It goes national. And then some company comes along is like they're taking up. our shelf space. Yeah. We've got to give Carrie a whole bunch of money. I'm ready. I'm happy.

Call me. Whoever you are, call me. You know why this is great for the podcast too? I've been eating this whole time. I love it. And the one thing that our listeners get mad about, only some, only the mean ones, when we chew a lot on the microphone, biscuits. You don't even know I'm chewing.

It's a self-chew. Right, Joe? You're on the, you're on the headphones. No chewing at all. There you go. So, I mean, In my world, a biscuit should be a little crisp on top, a little crisp on the bottom. But then when you bite into it, it should be like a down pillow.

Like just the most delicious texture in your mouth that isn't offensive. So you've probably been out to L.A. before. I've been, right? My husband's from Manhattan Beach. Oh. Really? I love your husband. I haven't met him.

But sorry to interrupt here, but I really feel like we'd be friends because. on whatever the cover of your cookbook. Yeah, hot little suppers is one of the. There's two cookbooks in total. Yes, two cookbooks. You really should get them. Our listeners should get them because you can actually make your own biscuits and there's just a lot of cool stuff.

But I like your husband so much because it's all about biscuits and everybody's got some like fresh vegetables and stuff except for your husband who's got a martini shaker. Yeah. And that is so true. This is our life. And that's my life. Yeah, me too.

He make people say. Oh, is your husband involved in the business? I was like, yeah, he makes me a martini every night and listens to me complain about all the problems of the day. That's amazing. That is a very important job. It's a great, yeah, absolutely. And if you get to the Christmas section, he's making eggnog and a Christmas blazer. Oh, really?

Yeah, for your. So now he's this Manhattan Beach guy that lives in the south. He is. And how is that? How did you meet? We met in New York. Well, so he lived in Manhattan. Mountain Beach until he was 12. Then his parents moved the entire family to Jackson, Wyoming,

because it was a little, the middle school situation here was too much. And they wanted to have like a more wholesome life. That's the excuse they gave him. That is what they told him. Someone was running from something. Right. Yeah. You don't go to Wyoming. Wyoming? That's like a witness protection. They had been vacationing there forever. And so his mom's dream was to have like a ranch. Oh yeah. And so they, they actually still live there. And his sisters still live there. But I met him and, New York. I was living in New York and we had a mutual friend. He got stuck there over the weekend right after 9-11 and he didn't know anybody. And so he called his sisters and my childhood friend live with his sisters. I mean, this is the craziest story. And he said, does anybody know anybody here in New York? I'm here for the weekend. And she said, oh, you need to call my friend Carrie. And we were engaged three months later. And he lived in Wyoming and I lived in New York. And then we decided to move to Charleston. That's amazing. Isn't that crazy?

Three months later. Three months later. And I was almost engaged to another John. Really? His name is John, yes. We didn't like that guy as much, though. No, it was crazy. John.

I'm sorry. What were you doing in New York at the time? I was working for an internet startup company, which I think partly is what gave me the idea because it was the beginning of the internet and I'd gone through this company with them with a VC. and it bombed. But it was such a great experience. And then I came home and Charleston is so different than New York and L.A.

It's just very sleepy in a good way. And I just knew that I needed to do my own thing. I mean, in Charleston, it's very hospitality focus. So I knew I could start a restaurant and run a restaurant, but that was not the life I wanted to lead. So I had to figure it out. How did you know? Three months?

You're engaged. That's pretty great. Well, we were older. Which is a weird time too because 9-11, everything was unsteady. You didn't know what we should do. You know, I think you just know when you know. I was 29 and I just knew. I just had that feeling and we had the same values, like building a family together

and talked a lot about that. And I don't know. I think both of us also took a chance, but it's been 21 years. So I think it was a good. Good gamble. Yeah. It's because he makes martinis. And he makes a damn good martini.

That's so great. That really is my role. It's like if we take this one daughter out of the thing, that's my life. Two daughters, my wife, and I'm making martinis. Like, it'll be fine. Yeah, that's right. Just make a martini extra dirty with blue cheese olives. Oh.

Stuff your own olives? Always. And you have the, have you gotten the Amazon thing that is the stuffer? No. You must get that. Really? And the. the frozen trays.

Can you tell I have a lot of martinis? And you put the stuffed blue cheese in there, and then you pour just a tiny bit of vodka and freeze them. Oh, really? And then you use that ice as your ice? No. I just want the olives to be really cold, and they have just like this thin film of vodka.

It doesn't freeze all the way, but, you know, it's good stuff. Oh, that's really good. I'll send you the Amazon link to the pusher. Yeah. Affiliatedly. This is my dream. This is my dream. I love Charleston.

Come visit. I love it there. When was your last time there? About four months ago, Joey. What? Right? Wait, did you, didn't come to Hot Little Biscuit? No.

What is wrong? I hadn't learned about you yet. What? Joe, do you remember the theater there? By any chance? Yeah. Where did you eat? Uh, it was, I was kind of in and out.

I didn't eat any place remarkable. But I was downtown. You know, it was really nice, was on my way out. I stopped at this coffee shop. Mm-hmm. That hires, uh, Betty and, Betty and what? Betty and Bowes. And Bowes.

It's right around the corner from my hot little biscuit shop. It is? No. What a great concept. I love them. And they're franchising everywhere. they hire people with special needs. I know we really did not let you in on that.

I have no idea who Betty is or who follow us. It is this family. This family that had two children with special needs. Okay. And they wanted to start a business where they could employ people with special needs. And so they opened a coffee shop. And it is 100% run by kids with special needs. It's so great.

That's so sweet. They're so sweet. You know kids with Down syndrome or different issues. shoes and we were just in there super early because we were heading to the next gig and just I just found a coffee shop that was it and we love coffee when we're on the road found the coffee go in and I was like she was so sweet this the way she was serving and like putting it up and giving us a little like have a wonderful day and like she was saying it the same way to everybody I was like she was so sweet that was such a great shop it wasn't until I left and they had all this great merch

And it was great t-shirts and stuff. It wasn't until I left that I realized what it was, that she was special needs and the whole place was set up so these kids can have, you know, adult lives and be employed. And it's, how many, it's like in... I think they have like 30 franchises. Yeah. Plus and growing.

Yeah. It's growing all over the country. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. I know. It's really pretty good.

And their coffee's legit. And the coffee's what I'm going to say. It better be good coffee. Yeah. Yeah. I guess we're going back. No, it's great. I went to one that the whole coffee shop was, I thought this was what you're going to say.

It employs vets. Oh, nice. Yes. I can't remember what it's called. A barbecue place? No, it's also like a cafe, more of a cafe where it's not just coffee. It's just, but everyone there and the whole, all the inside is just Air Force memorabilia and Navy memory, all this like, it's actually overwhelming and a little bit like, it's a lot.

Right. You know, because you're walking in and... You're not expecting. You know, it's... Yeah, I was not expecting it. And you're walking in, like, I feel like I'm walking into someone's, like a scrapbook that came to life. You know what I mean?

Into their lives. And they hire all vets? Yeah. That's great. Joey, what was the place we ate in Florida that was a barbecue place that's franchise now? And it was the same thing, supporting vets. Mission barbecue? Yeah.

That was, well, I hate to make it an embarrassing. story about you. No, you don't hate it. We went in. Now you've got to tell. It's so great. You know, they're supporting veterans and it's just the same thing. The decor is all military.

Yeah. It's just, you know, there's a machismo that goes with that. You know, I've never been in the military. So, but I kind of, you know, bring my shoulders back a little bit and say, yes, sir, and yes, ma'am. And just so they think maybe I'd been in there. They know you haven't. Ordering all this barbecue stuff.

And Joey got one little thing of mac and cheese. that was like in a baby cup, like in espresso cup. That was it. That was it. That was all he ate. I took a red eye the night before, really needed to eat something before we got together. It was just not hungry by the time. It was a mistake.

You just need a little snack. It was so embarrassing. I was like, they all knew then we weren't military. So your biscuit place right around the corner from them. Yeah, we have two downtown. One literally less than a block from Betty and Bose, and then one about five blocks. Such a great town. Such a nice place.

Did you like raising your kids there? Loved it. I had a great childhood. I love being raised there. Yeah. It's changed a lot. It's grown, but we live in a tiny

little village across the Cooper River. And, you know, you can ride your bike to school and just dreamy. That's nice. Really nice. That's really good.

We should have spent more... My whole touring is people telling me great places to go eat and then never having the time to eat. Yeah. It's sometimes impossible. Right? Because you get there and then you're like, I had going to splash some water under my pits and we've got to get to the show.

Like, you want to sit and enjoy a city sometimes when you can't. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I just called my husband on the way here and I said, I think I'm going to stay an extra day because I'm working the whole time and I don't even have a day to eat. Yeah. To eat.

Yeah. I like, are you kidding me? We have thousands of biscuits flying off the line. I'm sure they're like losing their minds without you. It's like the Lucille Ball episode. It's just biscuits. It is. It is.

I did QVC yesterday and then flew here last night. Wow. The deal with QVC is when you do it, the orders have to go out the next day. What? And I didn't want to miss this opportunity. So I said, well, I'm going to make it happen. Y'all, please hold down the fort. And so they've been shipping biscuits all day like crazy.

So what happens if you go through the roof and all these orders start coming in? That's what happens. That's what you want. And you just have to rally. We know like they allotted X number. And so then you never know how many you're going to sell. So you make a head. So it's taken us a few weeks to make.

Right. The 30,000 biscuits that we sold in seven minutes last night. Seven minutes. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Power of that. The power of QVC is no joke. It's no joke.

And the fact that they just have every. Everything. Everything. Everything. And they never stop selling. A biscuit. Like they just have, there's a prosthetic leg. Okay, call in guys. These legs are literally running out of here.

I used to write jokes for Joan Rivers. And she would go do QVC, I think once a week. And she had a jewelry line. And she would get there at 5 o'clock in the morning or some crazy, insane hour, and go on air at 5.30. And she would sell out of her jewelry within 12 minutes. And then get on a plane and come back. All right, I'm done.

She would go for 10 minutes and then just leave. I got to QBC at 9 a.m. Flew up from Charleston, got there at 9, had to wait a couple hours, went on at 12, and went back to the airport. It was at the airport at 1.30. Exactly. It's bananas. That's amazing.

In New Jersey, right? It's in Westchester right outside of Philadelphia. Oh, okay. I'm sure they have different studios. It's got to be a great feeling, though. It is. the plane like, whoa, that happened. Yeah, it is very exciting and you feel like you've had a good day. Yeah. Yeah. And then I've also been on the side when we didn't sell what we thought we were

going to sell and that makes you feel horrible. Yeah. But it really isn't, I mean, usually it's not you. It's whatever, the makeup of the day and the time of day and the host and who knows what it is. They've bought, they've just eaten and they're not hungry and that, you know, I mean, you just never know. Right. But it's fun when you sell it. It's a lot of fun. Joey, do you want to make up for you eating the mac and cheese Dixie Cup and have a biscuit? I would love a biscuit. Which one would you like? Well, you should have all of them.

I would take one of the cheese ones or the everything one. Okay, well, come through it. You have a metabolism that can handle one of each. Yeah, you can have definitely. He's also soaking up his alcohol from the other, from yesterday. This is exactly what these are made for. Buttermeal, cheese and chide, cinnamon with, you got to put some cinnamon butter. The cinnamon butter.

There's. Bluerre has icing. I kind of want to go with the savory ones, though. Is that? No pressure. It's my instinct. No. You do it.

You do whatever you have to do. Don't touch all of them. Don't touch all of them. Yeah, get the cheese one. I gave up cheese for length. That's the only reason I'm not eating it. Oh, Joey. The one thing I was excited about, which I put in the fridge was the pimento

cheese. Yes. That looks pretty good. It's really good. Have you ever had pimento cheese? I have. Okay, good. Yeah.

It's really good. Do you feel like you need to like make up new flour? flavors all the time? Do you feel like you're like, what should we do next? I do. And my husband says, nothing. Just sell what you have. Stop. What about a Korean barbecue? We can do. What about this? He's like, crackers. Like, what are you doing? Liquorish, biscuit, licorish. I know, because I get inspired. Because that's an entrepreneurial thing. Like, I am always dreaming about, okay, well, what can I do now? What can I do? You know, so that is not a good thing. I mean, it, sometimes it's a good thing. Did the crackers catch John?

Well, we just launched them. Oh, for real? I mean, we were making them in very small batches. Oh, my God. And they're going to be in Whole Foods in June. Yay. Wow. So I'm very excited about that.

These are going to be a hit. I think so. Oh, yeah. I see it taken off. I see a biscuit truck. We had a food truck for many years. I sold it because that was one of the many things that my husband says, why do you need a food truck?

Like, you have two restaurants. You have a production facility. You have e-commerce. You have two, like, you need to get it narrowed down a little bit. It could be like a wiener mobile where it's just the biscuit trip. Yeah, good advertising, right? It goes around the country. My first cookbook, I bought an old RV off of eBay for $13,000.

We wrapped it in the cookbook, and I took it all over the country. We went to Idaho multiple times and back and went all over and did like a 25 city cookbook tour. You're a hustler. Yeah. I'm a hustler. You're a hustler. Biscuit wedding cakes. When it takes off, you give me credit.

So when you come to the restaurant, we have a little. have biscuit birthday cakes. It's short cakes with icing and sprinkles. We can take the shortcake dough and make it into a cake. There's all kinds of things you can do. Wow. Very good. Yeah.

As much work as it is, it's like you're built for this. I think so. I don't have any other, any other game. So this is it. If this doesn't work, I'm screwed. I said, John, it's worked, right? I mean, 20 years in. Oh, it is totally work.

People say, you know, when did you feel successful? I said, well, I feel successful almost every day, but I also feel unsuccessful almost every day. Yes. But if I'm to look at the big picture, I have to remember why I started the business. And it was to have the lifestyle I wanted and to create a business within food. Yeah. And I've done that. Yeah. So I'm successful. Yeah. But now you can be even more successful. Yeah. And so then when you achieve your goal, what do you do? You set new goals. And so I just keep going until somebody says, enough with the biscuits. Without naming anybody, is there a biscuit company out there that's kind of our main competition who we'd like to stomp out?

No, because I feel like there's plenty of room for everybody. That's very nice of you. I do. And honestly, in the biscuit world, I am the smallest of all the biscuit people on the shelves that you would know of. Right. There is another company that is probably the closest to me as far as who's going to get the attention of. the big guys and they are way ahead of me. Oh, really? Yeah. And I'm, I'm cheering them on because the more biscuits that are sold, the better my business is, right? I mean, you know, French fries. I mean,

French fries are French fries. Biscuits are biscuits. We want everybody to eat more of them and then we sell more and then people want more. So. But it's interesting because, you know, I eat a ton and I'm aware of stuff, but I really wasn't aware of this level of biscuit, like this pre-made. Well, thank you for that. Thank you. And I think that that's probably because it's not in every grocery store. Right. And so I don't know that we will ever be in every grocery store because it's handmade.

So we just have to be kind of selective about who we partner with. I'm going to show you a picture, a little story from your biscuits. Oh, I love that. I just got reminded of it. This was my buddy, Steve, around the corner, because you sent me so many biscuits. I was like, I have to spread them around. So the people that I bring my bread to, I brought biscuits. And my buddy drove up to Northern California yesterday to see his daughters, Walnut Creek,

just finished dinner with my girls. I'm sorry, I mean, Oakland. Did you make the crumb cake yourself? I said, yeah, whatever. And he said, happy St. Patty's Day. Biscuits are great and sent a picture. He was in a rest. No, I guess he wasn't.

a restaurant. But there's your biscuit in Northern California, from my house to his house. Perfect for St. Patrick's Day with his corn beef and looks like con cannon, called Cole Cannon. Is that what that's called? Yum. Right. So this is, this is kind of my mission about biscuits, is that everyone says, oh, biscuits are so southern. Biscuits are the bread of the South. Biscuits are the bread of our country. Because if you think about it, it's, you know, one of the first breads that came to America. Yeah. And they've been making biscuits since the beginning of America. Yeah.

And so it's not a Southern thing. It is, it is the bread of your table. It's definitely, and everyone should have it on their table every night. A hundred percent. But there is definitely a love. The people in the South, I think, love them the most. We do. Right.

I do a radio show with Fortune Feimster. Great comedian. We do a radio show every day. Right. Joe, how often does Fortune talk about biscuits? Every day and almost every other day wears a shirt that just says this. I love this. We need to get him some biscuits and see how I measure up.

Yeah, her fortune. Excuse me. Excuse me. She loves biscuits. She's biscuit crazy. Well, we need to see if she likes Callies. Yeah, we should, we will bring her, we'll bring some over for sure. We'll talk it up on the radio.

You've got a great product and a great story. This is really, really very cool to meet you. Thank you. I'm so honored that you had me and waited for me. Yeah. he's not going to cancel a biscuit lady no there's no way you could have been an hourly yeah and it really is it's it's actually calming to meet people like yourself because it really makes me realize oh i don't have to sell my bread i could just make it and give it to my friend around the corner it's i don't have

the energy to be a comedian and a in the bread business in the baking business it takes so much It really, I, through this little journey, I respect people who make the leap because it's so much work. And it's really not much about the making of the biscuits. That's the easy part. Yeah, right. And so the business is, I mean, if I, if my job was to come and tell people like y'all every day and make biscuits and show you how I make them and have you taste them, I, that would be just the best. Yeah. That was your mom's idea.

That's what your mom thought she was going to do. Yeah. But it's rarely about that. Yeah. It's a lot of other stuff. Well, it's got to be a good feeling that at the core, you know, you've got a great thing that makes people happy. It is. Well, you know, and I love when people say to me, well, we've been buying your biscuits for 10 years and we serve that.

It's a tradition. Yeah. I think, what a gift that I am a part of your family tradition. Yeah, exactly. Or if somebody comes to Charleston and this happened just two days ago and this happens a lot. And they said, well, we've been here for three days and we've eaten here. every day and I think, really? Like, we're in Charleston.

There are a bazillion places. What an honor. Yeah. Yes. That's meaningful. It's pretty cool. That's no joke. I also have another gift for you, and it's because I made it yesterday and I didn't, no,

not that. I made an Irish coffee cake yesterday with Baileys. Oh. So, thank you. You're welcome. I've never even heard of that. I love this. I never heard of it either.

And it's, I made it yesterday. Wait, did you invent this? No, I got it off of, uh, from Sam Sifton from the New York Times. Oh. You know what I'm going to do, right? I just know it. Yeah. Oh.

Right? Can I have a bite? You do whatever you want. It's yours. Absolutely. I wanted to take a piece of that bread, but I, it's too beautiful. I need to take it home and properly. You think it'll make it all the way back to Charleston?

Oh, no. No. I don't know if it'll make it past tomorrow. This is what happens when people, when people, People give me bread on the road and I just eat it like a mouse in my hotel room. I just start picking at it. I just pull it off. Yeah.

We got the bread from Jolina's bakery this morning. Justa? Justa? Yeah, down in Venice. The sesame and I just literally was just like. Oh my gosh. Yeah, those guys are legit. That's pretty good, right?

It's delicious. Good job. Yeah, thank you. I love the little hint. Yeah. Well, this was really a treat. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me.

What should we tell the people? the most. What do we want them to do? We want them to order online or we want them to go to the supermarket? I want them to do both, but I really want you to go and support the whole foods. I want you to buy them and keep them in your freezer and use them for your breads. Yeah. Breakfast, lunch, dinner. They're so easy and delicious. It is so cool. Like you got all these boxes and it was that you sent me so much. And I literally just went to the freezer and knowing that they're all in there now. It's just great. Yeah. And they last in your freezer for 18 months because they're vacuum sealed.

And if you want to like only have, if you only have 10 minutes to reheat them, just put them out on your counter the night before. Right. Or put them in the refrigerator and then it cuts the reheating time in half. The freezing just is a natural preservative. Right, right. Beautiful. We're rooting for you. Thank you.

Yeah, very cool. Thank you. We got it, Joe. This is so good. It's pretty good, right? Yeah. Really good. You like it, Joey?

You ate the whole thing?