Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 219 - Aisha Tyler

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

Aisha Tyler and Tom reunite after many years of stand up together early in their careers. Aisha shares her journey with network television, hosting and starring in Criminal Minds. She also regales tom with her obsession with optimization podcasts and cold plunges. Then Aisha gives Tom the rundown of her margarita business ‘Losophe,’ and the differences between warring canned margaritas on the market. Aisha has also been directing, which has provided a new perspective she takes into her acting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you to our sponsor Wild Grain! Any combination of breads, pastas and pastries shipped to you, plus $30 off the first box and free croissants when you go to https://www/wildgrain.com/papa. About Aisha: Aisha Tyler is an American actress and talk show host. She is known for playing Andrea Marino in the first season of Ghost Whisperer, Dr. Tara Lewis in Criminal Minds, Mother Nature in the final two The Santa Clause films, and voicing Lana Kane in Archer. She also had recurring roles on CSI: Crime Scene Investigation, Talk Soup, and Friends. She co-hosted seasons two through seven of CBS's The Talk, for which she won a Daytime Emmy Award for Outstanding Entertainment Talk Show Host. Since 2013, she has hosted Whose Line Is It Anyway?.[2] She also hosted Ubisoft's E3 press conferences and has lent her voice to the video games Halo: Reach, Gears of War 3, and Watch Dogs. About Tom: Tom Papa, a celebrated stand-up comedian with over 20 years in the industry, has made significant strides in film, television, radio, podcasts, and live performances. Notably, he's a regular on "The Joe Rogan Experience" and various late-night TV shows. Papa's literary skills are evident in his books “We’re All In This Together” and "You’re Doing Great!: And Other Reasons To Stay Alive," a collection of essays, and "Your Dad Stole My Rake: And Other Family Dilemmas," a comedic look at family life. His latest stand-up specials are “Tom Papa: What A Day!” and "Tom Papa: You’re Doing Great!" on Netflix. Beyond comedy, Papa's engagements extend to hosting "What A Joke With Papa And Fortune" on SiriusXM and appearing on NPR's "Wait, Wait Don’t Tell Me." His love for baking led to hosting the Food Network series "Baked." As an actor, he's worked with notable figures like Rob Zombie and Steven Soderbergh and has appeared in several films and TV shows, including the HBO film "Behind the Candelabra." Additionally, Papa has contributed as a writer to projects like "Bee Movie" and various TV series. Residing in Los Angeles with his family, Papa continues to balance his professional life with personal interests like baking. Get in touch with or go see Tom live on stage! Radio, Podcasts and more: https://linktr.ee/tompapa/ Website - http://tompapa.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tompapa Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/tompapa Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/comediantompapa #TomPapa #breakingbreadwithTomPapa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's the series Stephen King calls Scary as Hell Everything here is impossible But it's also real Sci-fi vision calls it the best show streaming right now We're running out of time and we still don't know the rules Don't miss what the movie blog calls something you need to watch Saving those children is how we all go home

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She's Joe Coy. She's Joe Coy. It's breaking bread. We'd like to thank the good people at Wild Grain for sponsoring today's program. Love Wild Grain. As you know, as a bread baker, I've always thought of how do I get my bread to people through the mail? And as I was sitting on my couch thinking about it, Wild Grain was doing it. Wild grain is the first ever baked from frozen subscription box for sourdough breads,

fresh pastas, and artisanal pastries, and they're good. For a limited time, you can get $30 off the first box, plus free croissants in every box when you go to wildgrain.com slash papa to start your subscription. You heard me. Free croissants in every box and $30 off your first box when you go to wildgrain.com slash papa. That's wildgrain.com slash papa or just use the promo code Papa PAPA at checkout. I know. When I saw there was a chance to talk to you, I was like, man, there was a time when we were seeing each other every second.

Yeah, well, I didn't retire so much as I just kind of like faded into the hedge like. The hedge of network success. Like Homer Simpson. just faded into the lazy, soft success of television. Yeah. But yeah. And I feel like I saw Joe Koi yesterday, actually. Oh, wow.

Same thing. I was like, is it been 15 years since I saw you in person? Yeah. Yeah. But it's really, it's such a strange thing because you, obviously, everyone's doing stuff. Yeah. But someone can leave your orbit for a little bit. Yeah.

And you know they're working, but you just haven't crossed paths. This is the weirdest job in that you can feel as if you have been interacting with someone an ongoing basis and not actually have seen them in person for a decade. You know what I mean? Literally 10 years. We were in corporate America. Like we would, you would not have seen each other since like 2017 and we'd be like, that guy died. But you just feel super connected to people because you're not seeing them. You're seeing them do well, which is great. It's great feeling. Where did you see Joe Coy? Joe has a new special out. And so we ended up like literally on the same media circuit.

Like so he was, it was actually really funny. So he was. That's funny. So he's, was backstage at the Today Show and then we actually ended up on when when is this going to post this? Yeah. This will post soon I guess. Well, whatever. I'll just say a couple weeks. He and I did the Kelly Clarkson. Okay, perfect. So it'll be after that way. So the Kelly Clarkson show together and it was great. And it was cool. It was nice to sit on a couch with which it felt very tonight show. Yeah. I got to sit on a couch with another comedian. Wow. Nice. Which never happens anymore. Yeah. Ever. I know. I know. I know. It was. really.

We literally did the thing where I did my segment and then I moved down and he sat down and I was like, geez, this is a lot of rad. Like, this never happens. I know. Everyone got so uptight about like planning it and the pre-interviews and the thing. Everything, no dynamism. We have to make sure this is a hot five minutes. And then also, God bless television producers.

God bless you all. I've worked with many of you. But they're so rigid and a lot of them aren't, they have no comedy background. They're controlling for celebrity success, right? Right. And there are three stories about making yogurt at home. or whatever they're fuck. Yeah.

And so there's no, like, that thing. No one's like, let's see what's going to happen. I know. You're terrified. It's going to go off the real. I know. I think that's why podcasts have become so popular. Yeah.

Because you just come in and it breathes. And you get to like, you know, really spend some time. I know. It's really. When you were a baby comedian, because we don't do this anymore either. Did you do a lot of radio? Yeah. Like when I was on the road and stuff?

Oh, yeah. For sure. And we all complained about it, but I used to love doing radio. I know. Even that was me, I'd be hugover and tired. Yeah. But just the magic of like what's going to happen for the next whatever, 20 minutes an hour. I know.

I know. Like almost like a version of crowdwork. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Oh, 100%. And like you weren't going to do your material. Or maybe you'd like one bit, but you were just going to try to. Once you got good at it.

Like in the beginning, it was like, you're so painful. You're like, and he really, you acted like you were cooler than it. Like they want me to do material. But you're like, I just don't know. what I'm doing yet. I'm staring at the eyes of a guy I hopefully will never, hopefully I'll never see again. And he's demanding that I do three minutes of my hour. I brought you a Cineabon.

If we were in L.A., I would have made you bread. I would have baked you bread. That's where this whole pod. This is like some kind of New York, like, raw, crass sandwich with all these things. It's called diabetes. Yeah, diabetes. That's it. I smell it.

I can smell it invading my body. GLP four. Hopefully there's no Zempic shot underneath this. It's beautiful. Yeah, it will wreck your day. But when I was looking at the case, I stopped a Vesubio bakery on my way. Normally, the reason it's breaking bread is I do, I'm obsessed about baking bread. I bake a lot of bread.

I know this is your show, but it's right now. Tell me about this bread obsession. Did this happen during COVID? No. You know, there was a lot of Johnny come lately with COVID. A lot of hacks. I saw. I saw the beloved Jake Gellenhall on Colbert talking about his new bread passion.

Whatever, Jake. I'm like, as soon as there's a vaccine, as soon as there's a vaccine, you're never going to make another loaf. And I don't know, maybe he has, but I doubt it. But anyway, it was kind of like, you know, when you can't get that body eating bread. No way. When you're into a band, when you're young, when you're into a band, and then all of a sudden everyone's into the band, like five years later, and you're like, I was there in the beginning. That's me with bread. And I just got into it and I learned how to do it like from a sourdose starter and I just got obsessed and I have not stopped.

It's really become a thing. The number is the most delicious bread. Like it, I mean, you know, not to be a dirty old hippie, but I'm old so I can be that way now. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's like, you look exactly the same by the way. Honestly, like you truly. Adreine and crumbing. I don't know if you tried it. It's great.

drinking baby juice. It just really keeps you young. I mean, I swear I sound like some kind of hippie greeting card, but there's something really primal about sourdough, right? It just tastes ancient. And it's like irresistible. Like, bridge med, you have a piece of sourdough, you like cannot stop eating it. It's the first bread.

Yeah. It was the first time that they discovered yeast. It was like this sourdough starter. And there's like the first time that yeast that was just floating around us found itself in flour and water and started to bubble. And they were like, what is this? Literally just the words you're saying are soothing me into some kind of like vestigial sleep. Like I'm like the first, the prime of red, the organisms, we're part of this larger whole.

It's really true. It's really true. And it breaks down its own sugars. So it's constantly still fermenting and still breaking down its sugar. So when you eat it, it's actually better for you than. I'm going to start baking bread immediately. It's really, I can get you starter when we're in L.A. Yeah.

Oh, my God. I'm kind of more excited about it now. But in the meantime, I give you from Basuvio Bakery, this dense. It's murder, this murder bun. Murder button. I'm going to take a picture of it and post it because it's a murder bun. Here's the other thing I'll say. I wonder if this happens to you when you're in New York.

Like I, you know, I'm a West Coast person. I was born out there. I started doing San Francisco, moved to L.A. I've always lived on the West Coast. Yeah. But every time I come here, first of all, I'm like, I should fucking move to New York. I know. Every time I come here, just like a hack.

Like, man, man, I'm the same way. And I can't afford to live here. No one can afford to live here. I know. And then I just pulled the most hardcore tourist like, I took a walk in the park. I had an espresso. I went to the Cvio Bakery.

I did the high line. I'm just the most. I know. My biggest thing is trying not to eat. Like I have to film a thing. So I'm like trying to be good this week. And it is the hardest thing in New York. It's like,

I'm just passing every. replace. There's this pizza place and they have a little statue out front on my way back to my hotel and he's just like a chef. He's like, he's like, his gut is hanging over his belly and I'm like, I want to be you. A pizza future. I want to be you. It's so hard to walk by. You're like, no, this is exactly the look. Yeah. And when you're in L.A., you see all these people in shape and you're like, oh, I should be that. Pizza's evil. And then, yeah. If you, you, I feel the same way when I'm here if you substitute pizza for copious amounts of alcohol. Because this is the place with the best bars.

I always want to go to all these like cool ones. I know. I know. And my public says, we're just talking on the way here. We're like, I'm not drinking again today. And, you know, by noon, I'll have broken that. I know. It's so hard.

I love it. I just, yeah. The plane starts descending. And I start just seeing martinis in my head. in my head. Yes, just got woken. I was just literally like, I'm Sinatra. I'm going to just have a martini.

I know. I know. And there are so many great bars here. And there's something, and now this is very ephemeral. This is as ephemeral as the conversation about yeast in organisms and people, which is like New York in the spring and summer. Yeah. In the afternoon, it's ineffable. You're just like, I got to go sit on the sidewalk and just start drinking.

I know. You know, and like making fun of people and pet. dogs. But how do you handle the rest of your, okay, so you do that stay like a two? Do you go in and nap or do you just continue to the night? Well, in my defense, I think I'm a judicious drinker. Like, I'm not going to knock like 10 beers. I'm very much like a pinkies out kind of drinker, right? And it's very much, you know, I'm like, oh, this is on the 50 best bars list. So I'm a little bit, I'm a little bit of that kind of a person. Yeah. But I'll, so I'll try to pace myself also, you know, like we, like we all learned in college, I lay a base. Right. You got to get a base in there.

some nice, like a steak, you know, just a whole, just a porterhouse steak for lunch. Nothing else. Yeah. With both hands. And then, and then I also am fully in the like the early bird's sleep era. So like I eat early now. Right.

I eat like, like I love a 5.30. I like to eat dinner when the sun is going down. Yep. Get that happy hour specials and then go to bed early. So I naturally like good night myself before it can really get ugly. Oh, that's okay. That's clever. Yeah.

Yeah, because I was always like, how do these people do it? Like, if I go back and then nap and I'm not getting up again and going back out into the world. There's no way. I have embraced, very much embraced. Yeah. Like where I am, like age-wise, I'm obsessed with sleep. I listen to all those horrible, like, optimization podcasts about maximizing and optimizing and supplementing. And so now I'm just obsessed with like eight hours of quality sleep every day.

Do you have a sleep tip that works for you? So many. There was a five part, I think. Oh, six. Oh, six. Oh, yeah, yeah. Six part.

Oh, yeah. Six part. Just on sleep. Just on sleep. And each episode is like two and a half hour. Yeah. So just listen to those if you actually want to go to sleep. You can just fall asleep.

Yeah, your sleep app. Did you listen to those? I do. I listen to all of them. I'm just, I'm like, I'm like a 55 year old white guy. I love optimization podcast fan.

Massive Huberman fan. You're going to start cold plunging. Do I have a cold plunging home? Come at me, bro. I do. I have a cold plan. You do for real? I cold lunch every day.

No. Yeah. You do? I do. All right. I have so many questions. You, I mean, I'm so into it. You have a sauna, too?

I have a steam. I have a steam. Yeah. But I've been measuring a corner of my living in for a song. You have. I have. I think I have a place. I'm thinking about the sauna outdoors.

My wife really loves it. It's good for you. But I'm, they're supposed to be great. They're great. The cold plunge. I can't see making. the investment because I can't. The cold plunge is a drug, man, you feel so great afterwards. You do. Yeah, you do. You do. When do you do it? You wake up and go right. So if I, you know,

I wish I was like, you know, UFC guy and I would like leap in there at 6 a.m. That's in my head every night. I'm like, I'm going to get up a six and cold plunge. I have to like sneak up on it every day. It's like 1115. Then I sit there for a while looking at it, talking to myself, considering all my poor choices in life. Every day, it is such a battle to get into that. Yeah. But you feel like a million bucks coming out because your body just makes honestly all these drugs. Like your body, you get in that cold thing. Yeah.

And now I'm not a scientist, everybody. And it's clear when you hear me speak for the next three minutes, I don't know what I'm talking about. But your body makes like these cold shock proteins and you make dopamine and you make serotonin. And I guess the process of then your body heating itself back up brings all this blood to the surface. It improves their circulation. It improves your brain health.

Like it does all this great stuff for you. And you and I make a living in the same way. And the thing I care most about is not becoming stupid. Yeah, no kidding. It's my number one fear. It's not getting fat. Yeah. It's getting stupid.

Stupid. And so cold punching is like everything I do is about like trying to hold on to my cognitive health. You know what I mean? Like not getting dementia. I'm with you. That's like my number one. Everybody's got their fear. Yeah.

dementia is my number one fear. Do you have it in the family? I don't have it in the family. That's good. I don't have it in my genetic family, but I have people very close to me that have dementia. I have friends whose parents have had really extreme dementia. And there's a genetic, there's genetic predisposition, but also environmental and like lifestyle factors.

And, you know, we make a living with our brains. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? No, 100%. I want to smoke weed so bad. Oh, my God. I smell it. I used to do it.

You're like bugs bunny in that thing. You're like floating. Yeah. I'm just saying you walk around and it's everywhere now. And you're just like, ah. But like, I don't want to be. I'm dumber. Like, I don't need anything.

Yeah. I don't need a fogger. I don't need help. Crop dusting my brain. I don't need anything that's going to speed up this process. Right. I do. So the cold plunge is very good for your brain.

It's good for your fitness. How long do you go in it? Six minutes. Six minutes. That's a long time. You don't have to do that long. You could do two or three. I'm just an apple polisher.

Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm just a kid who likes to be an A plus. Yeah. And I'm like, nobody's watching. Why the fuck do I care? But I do six minutes. And is it like, how hard is it to stay in six minutes? I wish that it got easier.

Yeah. It's hard every day. But apparently that's a part of the benefit. Like there's something about your brain. Duncan Heerman said. There's this part of your brain that's like the amygdala or something anyway, where when you do tough things, you improve kind of like your mental tenacity. Yeah.

Like this part of your brain gets bigger. So it's good that it hasn't gotten easier because like a part of the benefit is doing something tough every day. It helps with, not just with like, kind of like the way you look at the world, but like actually how your brain functions. Okay. So I have a whole plan for myself. I put on a song six minutes long.

Okay. And that's easy, right? So it's a no timer. And then I listen to the song and the song because I know the song. Yeah. I know exactly how much time I have. Right. And then I get out.

And then you feel. Are you, who, who, the whole time? No, I full on do meditate. Oh, God. What I do. dirty old hippie. I just do breathing. And because I can't bring myself to meditate, because, you know, listen to me,

my RPMs are too high. Be the busiest meditation of all time. It's like, just too high on the, on the vibratory scale. Just a movie trailer on two times speed. Fed up two X speed, yeah, totally. So I'm like, okay, while I'm cold plunging, just do breathworth. And it's very basic. I'm very basic.

I just breathe. Like, I just do box, like military box. And how long does that last the buzz of, is it like an all-day thing? Really? Your day, if you don't do it as opposed to doing it, you know a difference. I'm fine. I mean, I'm obviously again, filled with adrenaline. But when I do it, it just does so much, first of all, we're just in this age conversation. So, you know, like I was an athlete when I was young. And then for your stand-up, all you do is stand. My knees are jacked. And my knees are just. barely functioning, holding on by like, literally like a, one string.

Yeah. And so just cold, cold punch you can just like completely turn that around. Oh, it helps with inflammation. Everything complete. And like, oh,

inflammation, right? Like, it brings your information way down. Wow. So it's great. I like, sometimes I'm like, oh, man,

is this arthritis? And then I go in the thing and it's gone. Wow. It's pretty groovy. The, I've been doing wall sits. They told me that wall sits are supposed to be great for your blood pressure. Yeah.

So I've been doing wall sits. And it's a similar thing where it doesn't really get that much easier. No, never. You're never like, you're never like, ah, let me just crank these out. Every time you're like, this is the worst thing that's ever happened. You're just trembling the whole time. Like, is this helping me around my breaking something. Yeah, totally.

Wow. That is, you know, the coal plunge thing. I love it, man. Yeah. But I, but I can, it's like this. I can recommend it, but I can't recommend it. Yeah. It's very good for you.

Uh-huh. It's really good for me. But there's, it's not fun. No. I went to Iceland at Christmas time. Wow. And one thing about cold plunging is that it makes you much more tolerant of cold. Like your body actually starts to regulate its temperature away better. So you're just like, I used to be one of those people always cold and I'd jam around without a jacking. California kid. Yeah, a baby week. A weakling. Yeah. West Coast frail baby. And now I can just jam around without a jacket. Really? That was like one like noticeable benefit of cold plunging. How long have you been doing it? Like a couple of years. Really? A couple years. Years, yeah. You were a pioneer. I'm a dirtbag. I went to Iceland, and then when I was in Iceland, and it was, like, between Christmas

and New Year's, I went in the ocean, in the frozen icy ocean in ice. What? And that was, I would have never even looked at the ocean. Yeah. And I, like, went in it and it was, like, ice in the ocean, and it was. No. I was like, man, we're going to go. Wow.

Yeah. Do you feel like it translates to. mental strength or across the board? Yeah, and it's, again, I know people are going to poo poo this and that's fine. I deserve it. But I do feel like a part of that meditation when you're in there can be like if it's the first thing you, it's the hardest thing you're going to do today. Yeah.

It compares you for whatever. Right. It's going to come in it. It's like about calmness within discomfort, right? Right. So I'm really, really uncomfortable now. And rather than being like, just sit in the discomfort for six minutes. I realize it's just a sense.

that's going to pass. Yeah. And then it helps you for the rest of the day just be more even in your reactions. Like, things don't freak you out as much. Yeah. People come up to you and you're like, well, that guy's an asshole. But then you just let it float by versus the old me. Yeah.

Which would just be like having a conversation in my head with that guy for the next seven hours. And I would have said this and I would have said that. Isn't it amazing that all of this stuff is trying to get there? Yeah. Like meditation, religion, cold plunging. running. It all, yeah. Weed.

It all is about getting into a space where you're not just reactive constantly. Yeah. It's a very interesting thing. And then there's like a biochemical reason for all of this. I think that's important, which is just about, well, two things. There's like the emotional one, which is like not letting other people control your interior tempo, right? Like not letting things in your life fuck you up internally. Yeah.

which is, I think, the fight, every human being is working on, like, things are going to come at you that you can't control. All you can control is your reaction. And that's really hard for most of us to do. We're emotional. We're just little animals. But then, you know, stress fucks your body up. Right. So the more you, because it releases all these chemicals and messes up your, you know, your metabolism and the way your cells function.

So if you can control your stress levels, the way you react to incoming stress factors, you're just going to be a healthier person. Yeah. And then happier. No, 100%. Yeah. It really. And you can, when you do whatever thing you do and you get to that place and it lasts, oh, man.

It really just changed your life. It does. It does. I love it. I love it. In my head, I'm like, man, Tompably, he's breached enlightenment. Is he going to tell us how he did it? No, but it is, it is like, and it is an interesting thing, too, that this is like a common conversation.

Like this is, you know, 30, 40 years ago. I mean, the people weren't talking about how to kind of improve your life this way. That there is like a whole movement of like very smart people trying to figure that stuff out is pretty amazing. This is, this is so esoteric. I don't know what your, I don't know what your hopes and dreams were for this podcast, but we have really gone down the rabbit hole. We're right. We're in the sweet spot. We're in the sweet spot.

Okay, let's just go. Let's go hard. So there's this show that came out on Netflix. It's based on a book called The Three Body Problem. Really esoteric. You know, not for everybody, but really interesting. Yeah. And one of the, and the premise of the show, and no spoilers here is there's like, like, aliens are coming to Earth and their community can't even with people through video games.

It's a wild. It's a wild ride. Yeah. But one of the aliens, this is not a spoiler, guys, but one of the aliens says, but if you care about the shit, fuck off for two minutes. One of the aliens says essentially, like, how long did it take human beings to walk up right? And it's, you know, and like hominid evolution, it's, I think, well, let's say like just for, just for humans, it's like 300,000 years. But, but, you know, I can from, I think the hominid range is more like a couple million, but let's just say 300,000. Okay.

And then how long did it take us to, like, develop tools? And it's like, you know, 100 years. And then how long did it take us develop technology? It's like 50 years. And how long did it take us to, like, you know, go from like, first technology to, like, you know, quantum computing. And it's like 20 years. The point being, like, we're accelerating in our, in our ability to, like, we're accelerating in our ability to, and in what we're able to take in.

And that's both why and representative of the fact that like we're just now finally trying to figure out how to like engineer insights, right? We've been so focused outwards and now we're kind of trying to figure out how to like engineer the human, the human machine. But is that technology that's just improving that at that rate? I think it's our brains. Are we? Our evolution.

We are evolving? Perception. I think so. Because, you know, when you, I always had this, my history problem was that I always looked at people from long ago as something primitive, even though we're doing, and you realize when you start like reading that. You start learning stuff. When you pay attention, they had all exactly the same. Stresses, anxieties, wants, longings, all of it is exactly the same. And emotionally, it's, we haven't really progressed that.

much. So are you saying like we're at a inflection point where we actually will evolve that way? I think that we're at the sort of, I think people have always been introspective. And I think you're right. I think when you look back, you can see that there was a lot of, like a lot of really reflective people. But I think technology has put us in a position where we've got more time and more bandwidth to look inwards, right? Because we're not like digging holes and planting turnips. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Or, you know, or, you know, dying at 50s. of the gout or whatever. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. Just the fact that technology's lengthen the amount of time we're on the planet, individually. Yeah. And given us more leisure time has given the human animal the opportunity to be more introspective. Right. And not just figuring out like what the best diet is, but what the optimal way to be human is.

Yeah. I mean, and I don't think we figured it out because we're still fucking assholes. Totally. And as much as there's this great conversation of trying to discover and progress, it's a small portion of the world. Yes. I mean, we are a tip of a disgusting thing. You know what I mean? Oh, God.

It's going to say it like that. It's embarrassing. Well, no, I mean, you know. It's, I mean, it's the luxury. Exactly. It's absolutely a luxury. You're talking about like cold plunging and free range, whatever, it's free range water. Yeah, but, you know, but there's also, that does kind of, you know,

trickle down a horrible term, but, you know, at a certain point, you know, then the masses start to do similar things, you know, even just exercise, just all that kind of stuff. I mean, and I think that maybe there's a way for, oh, God, this is so like kind of Western-centric, but there is a way for the parts of the world that have more resources to do what they should. to help parts of the world that have fewer resources

leap over the part of the timeline where they had to struggle to get, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. For example, something like, like, you know, parts of the world that are still developing will never have to go through the part of the timeline

where they had to, like, lay phone cable. Like, they're going to go straight from having no phones to being able to do, like, peer-to-peer bank transfer by itself, right? Like, that's great. Like, you know, we're going to save you guys in trouble. Yeah. And, but also, maybe they're like, fuck you on your cell phones.

You know, I'm fine where I am. what I'm doing. Well, yeah, that's the other thing is there is, when you you look at these different cultures, you look at different cultures, the ones that are not up against it, like poverty and that kind of stuff, but just living a smaller life. Yes. There's all of these studies of

how much happier they are. Yeah. Of just not getting to this roaring river of... So stressful. Yeah. Roaring River of Stressers. Another Heberman Lab episode that I really enjoyed. I have to say, Just as a side note, it is so great to like, it's almost like I'm rediscovering that whole

genre by talking to you because, like, to not get it from a bro is so much more like, oh, there's something to this. Yeah. I mean, oh, God. You know what I mean? You don't have veins coming out of your neck. Right. I'm not like, I just shot like steroids into the tip of my dick.

I mean, I did, but like, you know, don't worry about it. So I want to look her up, but there's a really amazing. I'm actually Googling her while we're talking. There's this amazing, like, metabolic doctor who talked about the fact that, like, specifically modern living is just fucking us up on a cellular level, right? And, like, all the stressors that we're taking in,

the chemicals, the microplastics. God, this is, like, the first act of a horror movie. And so she goes to all this, like, really complex science about how the body works and how to improve from metabolism. Sleep is a big one. Sleep is, like, number one, right? Like, if you do nothing, else for yourself, for your brain, for your family, for everything, like get eight hours

of solid sleep. Yeah. Like that's, that's like the big one. And it's made me, I mean, I used to be, and I was proud of it, I used to be very much a dancing on a bar table at 5 a.m. kind of person on a Tuesday, man. I was like, I got something to prove y'all. I'm cool. And I'll be at work.

Exactly. I mean, that was, and then I'd be walking out on my talk show. Wee-he-hee, I slept for 45 minutes. But now I'm so obsessed with sleep. But she does all this really complex, like, scientific analysis. of the body and it's great. It's super compelling. She's highly intelligent woman. And then she just goes, dude just fucking go outside and take a walk. Wow. She's like, that's it. Like human beings evolved to be outdoors to get sunlight, to look at plants. She's literally like if you want to fix yourself,

just go outside every day and take a walk. Don't stare at your phone. Do you think that works in the city? I went and took a walk in the park today and it does. It like boost your mood. Again, you create dopamine, you create serotonin, all these like drugs that are good for you. I was thinking that this morning on my way to see you, it was like, I'm walking in this concrete jungle. There's like a, there's like a maybe one straggly plant breaking through the sidewalk. And I was like, this is still great. Still great. This is still great.

Well, we evolved as animals. We walked long distances. So there's something about the pace of the body moving. Right. With the amount of data that you take in just naturally with your eyes and your brain at a walking pace. That's like very, like, equalized. So, you know, it's not to look at plants and trees, but just the act of a human being walking through space and looking.

Yeah. Also, like, apparently distance vision, like taking data in from far away is, like a natural way that the human body works. Right, right. But we're always staring at something right in front of her face. It's, like, super unnatural. Yeah. So, like, just taking a walk every day. Right.

And she actually said, if you can walk, even if it's a short walk, twice a day. Twice a day. That's, like, the most thing you can do. My dogs are going to be so happy to hear that. You have, what kind of dogs do? I have a pug and a black lab. I love dogs. I hate poop so much.

I will never own a dog. I just cannot. I can't even, if a dog, if someone's walking their dog and the dog is pooping, I have to cross the street. I would say that's healthy. So fucking intense.

Like, and I'm not getting, it's not getting better. It's getting worse. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, I cannot function around a pooping dog. And then you know,

the dog wants to make eye contact with you when it's shitting, it's like looking at you in your soul as it's like convulsing. I'm like, no, bro, never. It's never going to happen. I know. If I lived alone, it would not have happened. But I'm in it now.

Yeah, yeah, you got it. You got the family. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely. And dogs are amazing. Yeah, but, you know, it's also, it limits your travel. It limits.

You know, that's a big thing. Yeah. Yeah. You can't do anything and go anywhere. I mean, it's like having a baby. Obviously, I don't have kids right? I don't say that. I have no idea how babies work either. If a baby is shitting, I also have to cross the street. Making eye contact with you. What is wrong with your human offspring? Take this.

But yeah, like, I love dogs. So I'm one of those people who like ask people. Can I pet your dog? I'm like, sitting at a bar drinking. I pay your dog. I'm totally that person. I'm totally that person. I saw this story the other day. This guy, he was driving late at night. He ran off the road, like, I mean, into a ravine. like full on, like third act of an action film, like into the air, bottom of a ravine, upside down. He had three dogs in the car. Two of the dogs had broken bones so they couldn't go anywhere.

Third dog ran four miles to his brother's campsite, literally Lassie style and was like, roof, roof, roof, pizza ravine. Whoa. Ran them back, they found the guy. That's amazing. Dogs are the best. I didn't realize he went to a camp. He ran, like, wasn't even his house.

He ran to where he had been camping. camping for like a night. Oh my god. They're fucking amazing. That is amazing. My one is that way is like super smart and like. And you got a dumb one right. And then that hug.

Oh my God. Sausage with feet. It really just a rock. Okay. So I was traveling around. I was doing a lot of things. I was on the road going heavy for two weeks when I came home. My family was home and it's time to cook.

And that's fine. I have stuff in the pantry. I'm ready to go. But because I was on the road, I had no bread. I know. My house with no bread. It seems unusual. But it's true.

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and I was going to make sauce with them, but you really need bread. And there was a loaf of bread from wild grain in my freezer. It was a three or four cheese bread, which I was very excited about, a little worried because my wife is off cheese right now. Put it in the oven, frozen, and preheated it to like 400.

And in 20 minutes, as I'm making all this stuff, I had a fresh baked loaf of bread. Like quality bread, really great bread. This is what you get at Wild Green. I love the people at Wild Green. They really, really nailed it. I wish they, we should partner, actually. You should send my bread to people.

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Back to our love of drinking. Oh, drinking. I hear you've got some booze. Oh, yes. I do. How did you get into this? Well, my just deep, deep passion first for beverages of high alcohol volume. I'll tell you a more esoteric story, which is that it very much comes from stand-up, which is like when I was a touring comic.

I just really resented the way that it felt to like go to a new town. You get in late. You have to get by the crackad on to do radio. Then you're rec. So you go back to sleep. You sleep all day. You wake up. You feel like shit.

You go to the clubby chicken wings and like you have two light beers. And then by the time you leave the club, it's too late to have a real meal. Yeah. And I used to spend a lot of time they get my, then you're amped. Two o'clock in the morning. And I would like go to the hotel bar if I got there before it closed. And I would get like a glass of, I got some give me like an overpored glass of soap and your mug. And like a red solo cup full of bar mix.

That would be my dinner. I hated it. I hated it. I hated that. Oh, man. And so I felt like I'm not experiencing these places, right? No. And so I would force myself to like go to a good.

restaurant and I'd go by myself because I'd be touring on my own and I'd sit at the bar and I'd have these great meals and I'd have these great conversations with bartenders and I just loved the feeling of because it's not it's not really for me about the booze it's about the experience right and I love bars and I'd have these great drinks and these great conversations and I just fell in love with kind of cocktail culture yeah and I know everybody thinks like you know dumb guy with arm braces and a ironic mustache but like great bartenders right they're fucking amazing I know they're They're great conversationalists. They're purveyors of joy.

They give you just enough energy to make you feel like you're seen and not so much that you want to call security. You know what I mean? And they're the guys that where should I go later tonight? Yeah, they're just great guys. Bartenders, 90% of them self-select. Yeah. Because they love to be around people. Yeah.

Like to be nice to people and take care of people. And so I just would love those experiences. And then I'd get home and I'd be like, man, that drink was so great. I want to try to make it at home. And I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. You know what I mean? I bartended in college. I did like look everything up and like Mr. Pepper's bartender guide or whatever that thing is called, you know.

It's always sticky when you make it at home. Exactly. It's always like, shit. You know what I mean? You don't have the right ingredients and you're confused and your hands are sticky and the counter sticky. Like this sucks. So I started, what I started doing is I started batching similar to your bread experience. Yeah.

I started making batches of cocktails so that when I came home late from something, I could just pour a cocktail out without making a big mess. And, you know, I'm a big, I am a big fan of quality over quantity. and I'd just pour myself in a groaning and watch a little bit of Netflix. So we'd batch it with the alcohol in it? Yeah, we'd just get it. Yeah. All made. Yeah, I would just like mix it up in a big glass bowl and put it in a jar and it would sit in my fridge.

Right. And I thought, shit, man, people might want to buy something like this. So, you know, I went through a whole kind of litany of experiences trying to figure out how to do this properly. And I was doing some research and found out that the margarita is the number one cocktail, not just in the United States, but probably in the world. Yeah, I just read that. It's the most, it's everybody's favorite drink. Yeah. And ready to drink margaritas are universally pretty trashy, pretty disgusting.

They're kind of like bright green, full of sugar, full of stabilizers, corn syrup, you know, dyes. I mean, they're really, really weird, disgusting stuff. And it just seemed like a really great opportunity to do something special in that, in that taste, in that category to be something real. You know what I mean? Because I remember I was with a girlfriend, we were in Texas, and she's like, I went to the store, and the guy at this store. and the guy at the store said this was the best ready margarita. And I was like, great. And then we opened it.

I was like, I want to die. This is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. It tastes like rainwater farted. It was so bad. Why did you lie to me? I don't know. Are we even friends? And so I just wanted to, you know, I think like, this sounds very kind of crass and

calculating. But like, you know, if you're going to go into business, you want to know that you're going to do something that feels original and innovative. You know, you don't want to just want to do the same shit. I mean, you know, a lot of, I don't. don't think of myself today, but a lot of celebrities are trying to like, everybody wants a tequila because like one guy made a lot of money making a tequila. You know what I mean?

Like what's special about the thing you're doing? Yeah, exactly. I know there's been a lot of that where, and I think just to feel good about yourself, you want to, you don't want to like be selling something and be waiting for like the reaction you know that's coming that it's not that great. Like, why fuck around and do some bullshit, you know, and for me, because I am just such like a nerd, no, it's got to be great.

I'm going to do something great. Yeah. And super like science base. So we, and I remember I was talking with my, now my co-founder, and I was like, I'm never making a margarita. Shelf-sable citrus is disgusting. You can't make it good. It's pasteurized. It tastes like crap.

And then it became a math problem. Can we do something great in this space? And we, I made a lot of them at home by myself. And then we hired this incredible woman who was a PhD in citrus. She has a PhD in lemons. Yeah. Lemons, Limes, and Tangerines. Amazing.

And we worked on it for two years to come up with this organic margarita. Was that the big puzzle, the big solve? The big solve was, can we make just like the best iteration of a red to drink margarita that's ever been made? But I mean, was the citrus. The citrus was the part like the... The citrus was the... That was the thing. You have to solve for the citrus.

Gotcha. That's the N. Sol for N was the citrus. And we did. And it's... Well, I can't say it's 100% organic because I think it's like 99.4% organic. But it's organic. 100% blue-bavre tequila.

then we made our own triple sack using 100% organic whoever, it's agave tequila, and then there is organic lime. And the difference, and also to many differences between ours and others, the first one is that there's no color in it, so it's clear, which people always go like, wait, what? But it's incredibly flavorful. It just doesn't have any yellow dye or green dye in it. And then the other thing about it is almost every ready to drink margarita that you have out there.

I'm not naming any name. So if you feel like I'm talking about you, that's your problem. Don't even have tequila in them at all. Or they'll have mostly neutral grain spirit, which is kind of like low rent vodka. Yeah. Or they have malt liquor. No. And then they have tequila flavoring in them.

No. So you think you're drinking a margarita, bro. But that shit's a fugazi. Really? It's a fucking fugazi. So. Can we go back for a sec? What is TripleSec?

Triple sec is orange lique. Orange lique. Yeah, which is typically like they just use steep oranges and sugar in usual grain spirit. And that's what we made it. We made ours with tequila top. So it's like super top shelf. Yeah. But there's nothing in our margarita but tequila.

Ah. And it was really fun. And it took two and a half years. Two and a half years. Yes. A very long time to get it right. The science of food is so. Someone sent me a bread volume.

I mean. Oh, like one of those giant. I know that book. You know that thing? I used to have that, but that there's a baking book like that for cake. Insane. I used to cook. I don't do that anymore. I pay other people to do it.

I persuade friends to bring me buns. But I know that book. It's massive. You can go so deep. Kind of similar to what we're talking about, like, evolving as human beings and all that stuff. The science behind food is blowing up. And that book is kind of a compendium of like all we know about bread. Yeah. Yeah.

Everything. Everything. Everything is science. And literally I'm cranking out breads, you know, four loaves a week when I'm home. And I look at that book and I'm like, would it be better if I had that in my head? I was going to say, like, do you envision some version of yourself where you're like, I'm going to bake my way through this entire bread book? Would you do it? Could you do it?

I don't, you know, it's, I could do it. Yeah, I could do the baking. I could do the iterations of their breads for sure. The two volumes of no recipes, just this is the. bacteria that is found in this yeast and this is, you know, germ. I don't know. You know, back to the brain fog.

I don't know how much of it would stick. Yeah. It's interesting. It's like, I'm, well, okay, here's, let's get back to the rabbit hole. You know, for, well, for, let's, I want to finish this thing I was going to say about the margarita. What's the name of your, oh, it's called philosophy. Like philosophy. So, Lossophy.

And you can order it straight. to your house if it like literally go on to loss ofy.com and then we will send you margaritas to your home. That's so cool. Which I think is the greatest thing ever. I think that really is the best part of this equation which is like margaritas to your face. Yeah. Yeah. Like click order. And when I'm just hanging around the house, I have no spots that night. Yes. How many laosophies do I have? How many lassovies? Well, you know. Am I a one loss of two loss? It is it is, it is full proof. It is, it's 24 alcohol, about percent alcohol by volume, which is 50 proof. It is a Wholeproof margarita.

Okay. It's grown up. So, you know, two. But it is so delicious. That's the problem. You could really house this stuff without trying. Like, it's really tasty. And I say that like, not in a like, I'm so awesome.

Like, we worked really hard to make sure this shit tastes great. And it's been really fun because now we're kind of taking it around and we're doing tastings and people are like, I don't know. Oh my fucking God. Wow. It's a different animal. Is the, uh, this is just nerdy marketing. marketing stuff, but is it, do you want to, are you trying to just go direct to consumer? Are you

trying to go into retail space? We're going to be in stores. Start in California, New York, New Jersey. Cool. And then hopefully we'll expand, you know what I mean? Like this year right now, like the nice thing about direct to consumers is that you can get in almost anywhere. Anywhere you can order alcohol online, you can get it. If you're 21, kid. But then you'd be able to buy in stores in California. and I think you can already get it. Well, you should be able to already get it in New York and New Jersey in some stores and we're going to be expanding over the next year and then hopefully, yes, and then world domination.

Yeah, no kidding. But the thing I was going to say, and this is like back to the esoteric, sometimes you think like, I'm the only human being that's ever had this experience. And then I think you made a perfect point earlier. No, no, no, we've been thinking and staring at our own navels since the beginning of time. Yeah. Since we were like, you know, cracking open other people's heads with a rock. That everything is science.

right like everything can be viewed and even science at its most ellip what's the quote what's the um science sufficient and any science sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic i think it's uh i'll think come on internet you'll tell me in a minute yeah but the but the point is like working this thing out with the with this it was this combination of figuring out the right science to do something really clean and delicious and pure and not trying to trick people with bullshit yeah not trying to like man you know like we're gonna give you the real shit it's gonna taste better than the man made up shit that they've been using all along. Yeah.

But just also thinking about the fact that like everything about the body of science, everything about the planet is science, right? You can understand not just the fundamental kind of functional ways that we move through the world science, but also like your feelings and your relationships. Yeah. And everything goes back to like, you know what I mean? Like all of it is like science-based. Like, you know, like friends make your brain make more dopamine.

You know, dopamine makes you happy and feel more connected. When you're happy and connected, you live longer. Like, you know what I mean? Like even the most esoteric parts of our lives are both kind of science-based and can be understood and improved through science. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can totally tweak it. There's going to be a pop quiz at the end of this podcast.

Why am I your third grade teacher? No. No, it's really true. I'm just obsessed with it now. Yeah. No. Yeah. A hundred percent.

And especially, I don't know if it's, I think when you grow up, you know, like you said, like when we're starting out, it's like, you're at the clubs and you're going crazy and stuff. And then you start. to because of your how much energy you have you start to notice it with all of my friends at our age and everybody starts picking they're not going to waste their capital on garbage yes you're going to be like if i'm going to go out to eat i'm going to do it right if i'm going to watch a film it's going to be great if i'm going you know what i mean it's you start to become a lot more discerning. Yeah, like your understanding of, and, and maybe you're like, when you're at the halfway point. And I definitely think that, like, we're at the halfway point. I don't think we're at

two-thirds point. We're like, we got double. We got double numbers coming. Yeah. And I'm going to make sure I get a full, my full run. Triples. Yeah. At least that like you start to think about the quality of the time you're going to spend here. Yeah. And like you said, not wasting it on bullshit. it. And that can either be a really, for me, the understanding of the scarcity of time has improved the quality of my life, right? Yeah. Like every minute of every day, am I doing what I want to be doing with the people I want to be doing it with? Yeah. For sometimes people just fucking terrified and they fall apart, right? Yeah. Sometimes you just have a day. You wake up and you're like, oh, I got to do all this today. But I mean, I think, you know, that might be something that's different

about us now versus maybe our parents' generation and the generation prior, where diminishing time really put them into a funk or made their lives get super small. Yeah. I just felt like the older I get, I'm like, yeah, man, tattoos and jumping out of planes and, rah! You know, cold plunging! You have tattoos? Oh, God.

So, yes, I mean, but I got them all. You got them all recently? I got them all very recently. Really? Oh, yeah. Wow, look at you go. Yeah, I love it. I love it.

It's kind of addicting. isn't it? Once you get, I said, I just want one tattoo. I only want this one tattoo and I got this one tattoo. And as I was getting this tattoo, I was like, okay, my next tattoo is going to be this. And full disclosure, my mom, who's not, she's turning 97. Whoa. Not 97, 87. Sorry about that one. Wow. Am I, no, I think actually this gave my mom a decade. I think she's only turning 79. I have dementia. So my mom's turning 79. So she's, so she's young and spry. She was from 97 to 79.

I'm not. I'm going to dyslexia. Mom dyslexia. This is just counting all of our clarity conversation. Literally, she's like, she's going to disown me. That she has gotten, she's had tattoos most of my life, but she's gotten the bulk of her tattoos in her 60s and 70s. Wow. She's got a full sleeve on her left side. A half sleeve on her right side.

She's Joe Coy. She's a painted lady. And I take her to my tattoo place in L.A., which is like a very very big. very masculine tattoo house. And, and she's in there with me one day. And the owner of it is an Irish guy and like a legend, like a tattoo legend. It's called Shamrock Social Club. And my mom, and he, so you drink a Guinness, tall boy. So my mom is in there. She's gotten her tattoo. She's drinking her Guinness Tallboy. She's like, you know, I had this other tattoo I wanted to get. So let's get it today. So my mom is in there drinking a tall boy and getting two tattoos at one

afternoon and all the Latino guys are there like man your mama's fucking loco like they love her why do you think she came to it this way you know she's just like what am I saving it for yeah you know I think when you're younger you're like I gotta be practical I gotta be right you know I got I got to be cool I'm she worked in corporate America for a while yeah she had a hand tattoo when when she would do interviews she would kind of like cover it up and now she's just like I'm just rocking and rolling and living my life and like I'm gonna go into the hole with the whole with the toothpaste tube squeezed out. I'm not one cent in my pocket and she's killing it.

That's amazing. To me that's the, like I, that's the last quarter of my life that I want to have. Yeah. Tattoos and she's, I took her to Japan. Last year it was her dream trip and she lost her husband a while ago to cancer. I said, when you feel ready for it, we'll take this trip. So I took her to Japan, like splashed out on mom. Yeah.

And it was a great, great experience. And my mom's, a jazz singer and so she brought her, she's so cute, she brought her jazz CD with her. I was like, she's like, well, I have fans in Japan. Let's see what happens. And so, you know, they have these things called Jazz Kissa, which are like jazz listening houses. And they love jazz. Every bar you go into Japan, they're playing classic, classic jazz, like, my Davis vibes, you know, Bird and Charlie Bird. And they would like play her jazz CD and we'd like drink whiskey. Really? And then it'd be like midnight and mom's like, where are we going now? I'm like,

bed, mom. You are going to bed. I'm not going to kill you in Japan. What was her thing? What was her, her drink? She was a singer. So she was, she was, she was an, she's an artist. You know, she was a pretty cool lady. She was an activist in the 70s. She was a member of the student, I'm Eileen Corrinating Committee. She was part of the freedom writers, you know, big protester, big organizer, you know, and then she had kids, and kids ruined everything as everybody who has kids knows. I'm sure they do lovely things, but they also fuck up all your party plans. So, and then she, and she had an MFA, so she was an art teacher, for a while and then eventually, you know, had to get a real job.

So she worked in like corporate insurance for like, you know, like a corporate lady job. Yeah. And then she retired and now she's just. And then as she got older, she always wanted to be a singer. So she decided to be a jazz singer. So she like performed in clubs and she recorded two CDs. Whoa. Like in her 60s.

Amazing. She's a badass. So great. So, um, which I again, it's like the idea that like the later part of your life is diminishing returns is just like a false construct. It's exactly the opposite. I think you just stop giving. a shit about what people think.

No, 100%. You know what I mean. You get way better at everything. Yeah. And when you're young, you're like, that's a lie. Old people tell themselves to feel better. But it's true. You just start doing the shit you want to do without constraint.

That is so cool. Do you feel like your stand-up is different? Like, I mean, it has to be different. But like, do you feel like it's a lot different now than when you were younger? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And in what ways? I haven't, I haven't retired from stand-up, but I haven't done it a long time.

You haven't? How long? Yeah. Oh, God. Is your schedule? criminal minds. Yeah, I mean, like I stopped when I started doing, I did a talk show for seven years and it was like a daily talk show where I had to be up super early. I was like, I can't be up till one and then be at work at seven. Like it's not going to work. So I was like, I'm just going to

take a hiatus. And then that hiatus just extended. So it's, it's been like 15 years. It's hard to come back to it. Yeah. 2007 to now. That's yeah, that's like, yeah, like maybe 2009. Yeah. But you were always, you've always worked and you've always had like, yeah. I mean, you've always, and it's cool stuff too. Like when you were hosting and doing all that stuff, it was great because it was always you. And then you slide into like Archer, which was like, I mean, such a cool. That's such a wonderful experience. So like you are always like present in this very cool way.

And I know when you get gigs, it's hard to keep to be like, I'm going to run down to the comedy store tonight and work on some stuff. And it's no way. It's, I mean, I love stand up so much. It gets in my bones. So it's definitely not a thing where I felt like I stopped. do as well it's like I'm taking a break but but there's something about um the you know it's like being an athlete yeah you know I mean and if you're not sprinting every day you

get slow yeah and um and I and I and I and people like you know come back you're gonna come back I'm like I got first of all you need to have something to talk about like I really felt like I needed to because I wasn't doing it full time and I didn't need to do it full time I was like writing another album like I got to have something to say yeah but I just why and who knows this is probably to come back to bite me in the ass. But I just watched the Gerard Car Michaels reality show. And then I hadn't seen Ruth Anil. So I went and I'll watch almost no stand-up. When I was a much younger comic, I vowed to not watch stand-up because I did one other people's material in my head. I had one experience where I was riffing and as words were coming out.

Oh, fuck me. I heard somebody say this already. And I was like, no, that's not my mind. And so I just never, I just stopped watching stand-up. I don't want anybody else's shit in my head. And so I just never watch it. People like, you're a comedian. I'm like, yeah, I don't fuck with comedy. I don't fuck with comedy at all. But I watched Ruth Aniel and I was like, oh, man, that was so personal. Like that would be a really interesting kind of show to do because it was so emotional and it was so grounded. It's a great special. You know what I mean? And it's not like, it's not like a free jokes a minute, but that wasn't the point. Right. It's a different thing. Yeah. Although that's the kind of cool thing of where stand-ups at right now.

in a very cool, revealing, successful way, people are just throwing all different pitches. It's great. You know, to have something that's really deep and then something really silly and something really joke-packed. Right. And it used to be so much more linear, like, explosive stadium show. That was what you had to have. Big mic drop, callback at the end. Yeah.

And now people are like, like Maria Bannford doing a special, like in a little room. In her room or inside. what's his name? Bo Burnham. Yeah, exactly. It's taken on all these forms. And you're always so smart and you always have so much on your mind.

You could do, at any point, you could do something. It's interesting. First of all, thank you. You could also just write books. It doesn't always have to be stand-up for real. It was kind of that thing of like, I don't feel the need to do that exact thing that I was doing before again.

But I feel, like what's exciting about standup what excited me about Sam when I was a baby comic is that, like I always, I mean, like full disclosure, I always wanted to be like Mark Marin or Comroads. I wanted to, you know, or, or, a little deeper.

Yeah, just sitting up there having a conversation where it feels like it's just coming off my head. Or, um, or Bill, uh, what's his last name? Not per, the other one. One that died. Hicks. Uh-huh. Well, everybody wanted to be Bill fucking.

Yeah, so like, I'm not special. but you know that thing where it felt like a conversation you know and then my comedy special is not that my comedy special is like me screaming and making fart noises talking about my space like a total fucking chunk end but like you know to be able to come back to it in a way that felt like an interaction like this rather than you know would be really fun to explore

and your stuff is always so cerebral and direct I feel like you have this really like intellectual engaging way of doing material. Really? Yeah. I always feel like it's silly jokes. But I don't know, but it's still, but I don't know. There's some guys that were silly in there because, like, they have a toilet seat around their neck. Right. But I feel like, they're playful and smart. You know what I mean? And I think, like, really sophisticated play can be silly, but there's always something like really, like, interesting underneath it. Yeah. You know what I mean? No, that's nice you to say. Because I mean, you do, I do try and mine it. I'm not just trying to, like, look for, boop. Yeah. I'm like trying to figure out, like, where,

I'm at and where my family's at. Yeah. Something like that. You know what I mean? It's whenever I, when I used to, no one ever asked me about Santa anymore, but when I was, when I was younger, baby comics for that. I would always say, you know, being funny is actually not the most important thing. Yeah.

The most important things to tell the truth, right? Yeah. Some version of the truth in your way because that's what people really latch out to. You know, if it's funny, they're like, oh, that was hilarious. Yeah. If you really tell some, if you dig in there and get something good, people are like, you have to see this guy. Yeah.

You know what I mean? The problem is then, I don't know if it's a problem, but then you're always digging. You know what I mean? Yeah, you are. Yeah. If you're just trying to make them laugh and just trying to be funny, you can kind of keep going to that. Right. You know what I mean?

Like, it's kind of like when you tell a story on stage that's really meaningful to you and it's emotional. And then after a while, it's just a bit. You know what I mean? It's like you're conjuring it up. You're just exploited your relationship for years. And the other person is devastated. You're like, anyway, farting and med, what's that about? How long have you been on criminal minds?

This is my, oh, I have to count on my fingers like a four-year-old. Seven, seven, seven, seven years, seven seasons, seven seasons. Amazing. Yeah, yeah. Do you love it? I do. I do love it. Having a character for that long that you can actually evolve with?

Yeah, and I think that doesn't always happen. Yeah. You know, especially on a, you know, kind of on a network show. Like, sometimes it doesn't feel like the character's growing. You're servicing the brand. But what's been really exciting about this particular show is that it transformed into something new when it moved to streaming. And it's a completely different experience. And, you know, a lot of that is a function of two things.

One, you know, the network show was 42 minutes long. Yeah. It was very much like a monster of the week kind of thing. And now it's a serialized show where we're really like building a mystery over a season. Right. And it's just much more languid. And so we get more time to spend with these characters in their backstories and with their interactions with each other. It's not just about like getting the bad guy.

It's about what that, what this work does to people's lives. And was that it's the same writers? It's the same. It's the same showrunners. So were they craving that? Yeah, you just couldn't do it. You just couldn't do it anymore television. I mean, you know, like not to beat it up, but it's just like you got to, you know, got to get to the commercial break.

You know what I mean? But this is just like people, the way people consume streaming television is different, you know, the way that they've been. it that they've got time and we went from 42 minutes to to no time limit you know what means like you know yeah whatever the story is and it just and I directed the show when it was on network TV and I directed now and as a director it's a completely different experience as well just you know you could never have a moment of silence yeah you'd put it in the edit and then it would get lifted out you know go go go go go go go go go go yeah and now there's just these god there's a scene that's going to come up this season where with Joe and I where he know it's not a

spoiler, but he's going through PTSD because he was kidnapped. David Rossi, Joe Mantegna, plays David Rossi. And he was kidnapped the previous season. And my character is a psychiatrist. And we just have a conversation about what he's going through. And it does just so much negative space, you know, that we never could have sold. That's really cool. Yeah, it's just a, it's a different experience. Yeah. Is that, is that increasing your want for more directing? Yeah. I mean, I, I, I, I just, the last episode of TV I directed was like my, I think my 14th episode of television that I've directed. So, and I've done one movie, very, very small independent movie that I directed in 2016. It's definitely what I want to do with my time going forward. And I don't think I'm going

to stop acting, but I love, I always say that when you're an actor, you're really just, your job is really to care for yourself and maybe the other people in your scene, right? That's really a job. But when you're director, you get to care for everybody. You get to take care of everyone, both in front and behind the camera. And if you're doing it right, your job is, you know, I think of directors as coaches, not dictators. You're going to assemble a team of people who are very good at their job, and then you're going to work very hard to help them elevate their game.

Right. Do the best possible work that they can. Yeah. And it's a great feeling to come in and say, like, I know what you're capable of. Here's my idea, but bring me something even better, bro. Like, go ham. Because, you know, a lot of directors don't work that way.

They'll do exactly what I say and nothing more. But when you can give people like free reign to create, they come alive and it's just a great experience. When you're doing it, when you're doing an episode of this show, how planned out in your head is it when you go day one on an episode? So much, so much planning. I mean, yeah.

I mean, it's very rapid. It's very accelerated because like you'll get this great. I mean, normal television processes you get the script the day before you start prep. So you've got a date of people. For real? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow.

And then the next day you're having a production meeting where you're going through the script and you're picking out all the produced elements. And then, you know, that two weeks, eight days, typically eight to ten days is about finding the locations, hiring the actors, but it's very accelerating. Yeah. And, you know, like with the, especially with hiring actors, like, you think you want, like, wants to find the right guy. You got three fucking days. Three days. So if you're an actor and you're like, why did they pick me? We might not even have seen you. We had my hair is on fire. I had to pee since 8 a.m. We got to pick a guy. So, you know, you're always trying to find ways to do your best work within a really strained time period.

But, you know, you do, I do a lot of planning and a lot of thinking and a lot of strategizing. And then you, you know, have people whose jobs are to strategize about their part of the work. Right. And you're talking to them a lot and they're going away and thinking and bringing it back to you when you're refining and everything. And the last episode that I just did for criminal minds, again, I don't want to spoil it, but it was really, really technical.

And so there was a thing we had to build from school. scratch and we weren't it wasn't going to be built by the first day of the episode so like literally as I'm directing we're also still prepping for later days in the schedule right so they're like yeah that's not going to get done until Wednesday then we'll have tests between shots you'll run over here you look at this test you'll go away we'll refine it you'll come back look at another test I mean you don't eat first you don't you don't you don't do anything you don't you just I need adult diapers like you just say you need to piss yourself and not move um my first like real acting job I was in I want to say it was in high school but it might have been like a

like a summer of college. Yeah. And it was, it was Eddie Murphy movie. I'll remember the name in a minute. Right. And the director, as like another guy, his name is not my head, but I'll think of a minute. Thomas Carter.

Thomas, my God. Thank God, I'm not going crazy. Okay, so this guy, and a lovely guy and, you know, a big director back then. Anyway, and we're shooting on location, and it's lunchtime, and I had a question for him, and I go to find him, and he's lying down. Right.

I'm like, man, this director is so fucking lazy. Who takes a nice? nap in the middle of the day. I mean, literally, I want this guy to find me and just punch me in the face. Or even thinking that because you are so tired and you have to cross, like literally all day directing is 10% creative thought and 90% people going, do you want the brown belt or the slightly thinner brown belt? You know what I mean? There's just so many questions. Fielding questions. Insane. And so, you know, you're just trying to create space in there for creativity and for play.

But I love it because, you know, when it goes well, it's just exhilarating, right? It's so good. So, yeah, that's all I want to do. It makes acting seem pretty easy when you just show up, you're not directing. Oh, yeah. You just have to do a couple scenes and be like, fuck off, I'm going to crafty.

Exactly. I'm going to get a donut. I like people who really, do you have a hard time when you're acting, not drunk. I'm like, dude, I don't want no part of that shit when I'm acting. I'm going to sit in my chair and look at Instagram. Look at Reels. Yeah, no, I, but I do like to support directors too when I'm acting. I try to, it changed me as an actor when I started directing because I stopped being frustrated with when things too long. And I, you know, and I would, I like show up early and I have my shit together and I'm not resentful.

I'm like, I did a movie with J. Chandra Shaker, who I love. And from, from, oh, God, why can I never remember anything right when I need it? It always comes like three seconds later. You didn't cold punch today. If you would cold lunch this morning, you're on the room. Lizard, the lizard improv guys that did Super Troopers. Yeah. Yeah, Jay Chargersaker.

Anyway. So, and what's it? Broken lizard. Thank you. See, it's like, it's coming in pieces. If I had Cold Plunch today, I would have solved for space travel. So, and it was like just this long day on this movie. And he was like, I'm so sorry today is taking so long.

And I was like, man, I'm just here to make you dreams come true. Take your time. Like, that's what happened when I started directing. That's what you want to hear. Yeah, I'm just here to make a dream come true, man. Like, do your thing. I'm going to go sit in a trailer. You know, I promise not to do drugs until closer to the end of the day. I got you, you know.

Because it's hard. It's, you know, this, we're not down a hole, digging up coal. No, but it's a lot. But it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, to be able to be able to be able to be in the way that I am. And then on a personal level, and I imagine you feel this way to continue to be able to be innovating, like personally, like still growing. Yeah, 100%. And it's, it's magic. Like, it's a magic trick that we're still here.

It's like staring at each other across this strangely shaped table. Do you know what I mean? We're working. Yeah, we're doing. We're working right now this minute. We're working. And so, and I know how, like, no matter how it peers on the outside, like, you know, when we're doing this or when you're on stage, when you're acting, that like the interior. your kind of turmoil of like get up, you know, keep fighting.

You know, it's its own battle. So when someone's coming to work and they're freak the fuck out, I'm like, it's whatever you got to do, man. Just take it easy, take your time. It's all good. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be here with you. Yeah.

We're going to die soon. Nobody shit your pants. It's going to be all right. We're going to be dead. So there's no reason to freak the fuck out now. There's devil to exit crafty. You know where I'll be. Yeah.

Well, this was so great. Oh, what a joy. I'm glad we got to spend some time for real. I know. And I was saying that to my wife this morning. Cynthia, do you remember Cynthia Corey? She says hello. And I was just so happy, like, because if we just ran into each other at the club,

it'd be like a real quick thing. But we actually sit down and talk. Podcasts. Great. I know we're wrapping up, but let's just spend five minutes talking about podcasts. All right. Do you remember your first, like the first time you heard about what a podcast was? Oh, yeah.

And I was like, well, that's not going to laugh. That's so dumb. It's so stupid. What the fuck is a podcast? Like, I remember thinking that so intensely, that's the stupidest thing I've ever. I'm on radio, so. I'm doing real media guys. That's cute guys.

I'm going to go over here where this guy's going to push a button and make a fart noise come out. For real. I was like, I really was like. Right? It was so dumb. So dumb. And I, and then I had one and I loved it. Yeah.

I loved it so much. And the feeling that I, the feeling that's not a word, the feeling that I had that I remember. And it was, that's what me, me think about when you're just saying that was like getting to have uninterrupted one-on-one time with someone who you like and respect that you sometimes don't get to have this kind of a conversation with your close friends. No, you get to ask deeper questions. Yeah. Just look somebody in the face and like, you're about their life. Like you just don't, you don't do that with their family and friends mostly. You're like, what are we going to eat? The kids are making

noise. The dog just take a shit on the carpet. Bye-bye. Yeah. And it's and they that like those, I did two, I did 220 episodes that show. And I felt like every single conversation, to transform me in some way. Do you know what I mean? It was really, really lovely. Yeah. No, they're great. And it's kind of that opposite thing of, you know, you go on a TV show and it's like,

it's fun and it's big and it's splashy. Yeah. But it's just so short. Yeah. You got to just get all those things out. Yeah. We produce the secret segment. Say the thing you said on the phone.

Tell the jokes. Go, go, go. Yeah. It seems like those shows now are these big bohemists just to create content that we can all watch on our phones later. In 60-second increments. Isn't it insane? Yeah.

But this kind of intimacy and like, you know, even, you know, the podcasts that I enjoy that aren't like comedy-driven, you just, I feel like it's so rich. It's probably like the new book. Sorry, book people. I like, I still read. But you know what I mean? Like just this way of like immersing yourself in something that is slower and more intentional. Yeah. Then, you know.

No, you feel like, you feel like, depending on what you're digesting, you feel like you got something. Yeah. Like, you know, you learn something. Yeah. And it's, okay, so wait. So let's go back to the one question I had before and we kind of went through the. Oh, I'm excited. What is the one sleep thing?

Oh, the sleep. The sleep hack. Okay. All right. I'm going to give you three, actually, because I feel like they're in conjunction. Okay. Oh, this is a good one. Okay.

So go to bed at around the same time every day. Okay. Which is hard to do. But once you shift. Yeah, hard on the road. But when you're home. Yeah. Okay.

And nested. And that is like, this is a big shift, I think, for anybody who's like a workaholic or driven or ambitious. But you really have to prioritize sleep as like an aspect of work. Like you will be better at your job. Right. If you are getting eight hours of quality sleep. Right. Whereas before I was like, sleep is fucking up my plans.

Right. You know what I mean? I can't sleep. I got to do shit. Yeah. But now it's like, no, like this is an aspect of my day. And if I can get, you know, eight hours of quality sleep. Uh-huh.

The second thing I've been doing that I love, and I learn this on camera. is to get, he talks a lot about morning light, but this is even more interesting, that apparently like the low, the long, like the long wave, low level evening light is the thing that tells your body it's time to go to bed. So like if you can get outside when the sun is setting, right? That that light is like, go to bed, baby. And it also puts you in a great mood. Yeah.

That's my favorite time of day. I know me too. I love that. The sky. Yeah. So if I can, I guess. outside even if I just walk around the block and just get a little bit of that. And then the third one, and this is one that I got from the sleep guy, from the 42 part,

the 42 part series sleep guy episode was to get all the lights down in the house. Right. Right. But like, you know, apparently they just put out of study that like the whole fear of screens is like a little overblown. Like, you know, certain people react to blue light more than others. So like if you like to watch TV before bed and it's not keeping you awake, like watch it and I love to watch TV at night.

But if you can get the lighting in your house, like vibes. Right. You know what I mean? Vibe time lighting is what you need. That it'll help you. So those are my three things. Also, the most, yeah, they're all light based. Yeah.

The body's a computer. Body's a machine. It interprets incoming data and says, oh, it's time to wake up, time to go to sleep. And so, you know, you've got to turn the lights to evening light and then evening light will tell your body you like sleepy time. And then you start these chemicals that tell you to go to sleep. Yeah. And then also, and this is the one that's deeply disappointing.

Oh, no. Alcohol's just a fucking problem. I keep seeing this and I don't like it. I don't like it and I'm ignoring it. But apparently it's bad for sleep patterns, bad for your body, bad for your brain. You know what it's good for? A good fucking time, whores. It's good for a good time.

I really feel like you got to pick your days. Yeah. And it's like you just, you know, you just don't do it all the time. Yeah. But when you do it, again, like picking your moments. Yeah. Quality. Quality over volume.

No, but I feel it. Like if I, the difference now between one drink and no drink is pretty. I have mastered apparently because my liver is just got a nice tough skin of leather around at this point. Is that one drink's fine, but any more than two is a problem. Right. So like if I'm going to go out, I'm like, I can do two. And then after two, I'm, you know, I'm throwing caution to the wind. Yeah.

Yeah. Then your sleep's going to be my stuff. Yeah. And you know what. You feel fine. You go to bed. And then the middle of night, two o'clock you wake up in a flop sweat. And you're like, I did it.

to myself. I did it to myself. So, yeah. Everything in moderation. Well, thank you so much. Oh, this was a joy. Enjoy the rest of your time in New York City. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm not going to ask for an update on the Cinevon.

You just do whatever you got to do. I'm going to take the bun with me. Whatever you got to do. And I'm going to, I'm going to care for her like she was my own baby. And thank you for that. And then I am going to come to you for some sourdough instructions when I'm in Los Angeles. Yes. I will just give you, I'll give you starter.

I'll give you bread. Oh, my God. I will, let's find each other in L. Oh, I'm going. Oh, I'm so excited. All right. Yay, thank you. You got it, Mikey.