Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 223 - Matt Damon

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

Matt Damon ends his press tour for “The Instigators,” starring Damon and Casey Affleck, on this week’s episode of Breaking Bread. Matt and Tom talk about everything from the day they met on the set for Steven Soderbergh’s “The Informant” to Matt’s forbidden love for the Yankees, breaking the hearts of Red Sox fans around the world (Boston). The pair talk Tom’s dreams of being an Olympian/BMX champion, surfing together in Costa Rica, trying to make James Gandolfini laugh, and Robin Williams’ beloved legacy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- See Matt Damon in “The Instigators”: “The Instigators” debuted in select theaters August 2, 2024 before its global premier on Apple TV+ August 9, 2024! In the film, Rory (Matt Damon) and Cobby (Casey Affleck) are reluctant partners: a desperate father and an ex-con thrown together to pull off a robbery of the ill-gained earnings of a corrupt politician. But when the heist goes wrong, the two find themselves engulfed in a whirlwind of chaos, pursued not only by police, but also backwards bureaucrats and vengeful crime bosses. Completely out of their depth, they convince Rory’s therapist (Hong Chau) to join their riotous getaway through the city, where they must put aside their differences and work together to evade capture—or worse. Directed by Doug Liman and written by Chuck MacLean and Casey Affleck, “The Instigators” also stars Michael Stuhlbarg, Paul Walter Hauser, Ving Rhames, Alfred Molina, and Toby Jones, with Jack Harlow and Ron Perlman. 00:00 Intro 00:40 Midnight Run & ‘The Instigators’ 04:19 Tom getting cut from ‘Air’ 07:54 Matt can’t remember what movies he’s been in 10:35 Direct! 16:09 Matt Damon LOVES Derek Jeter 21:36 Tom Papa, average Olympian 24:40 Casey Affleck writing ‘The Instigators” 25:58 Car chase therapy & Bourne Identity 31:16 Instigators is pro-therapy 34:36 Jack Nicholson's advice 38:35 ‘Good Will Hunting’ Robin Williams & Michael Stuhlbarg 43:31 Surfing in Costa Rica 45:36 You’ll never run a marathon 47:02 Trying to make James Gandolfini laugh 48:15 Taste Test! Shrimp Crackers…. 50:54 The comedian diet - cheeseburgers 52:27 The Comedy Cellar & a new generation of comedy 55:15 Neighbors with Andrew Schulz About Tom: Tom Papa, a celebrated stand-up comedian with over 20 years in the industry, has made significant strides in film, television, radio, podcasts, and live performances. Notably, he's a regular on "The Joe Rogan Experience" and various late-night TV shows. Papa's literary skills are evident in his books “We’re All In This Together” and "You’re Doing Great!: And Other Reasons To Stay Alive," a collection of essays, and "Your Dad Stole My Rake: And Other Family Dilemmas," a comedic look at family life. His latest stand-up specials are “Tom Papa: What A Day!” and "Tom Papa: You’re Doing Great!" on Netflix. Beyond comedy, Papa's engagements extend to hosting "What A Joke With Papa And Fortune" on SiriusXM and appearing on NPR's "Wait, Wait Don’t Tell Me." His love for baking led to hosting the Food Network series "Baked." As an actor, he's worked with notable figures like Rob Zombie and Steven Soderbergh and has appeared in several films and TV shows, including the HBO film "Behind the Candelabra." Additionally, Papa has contributed as a writer to projects like "Bee Movie" and various TV series. Residing in Los Angeles with his family, Papa continues to balance his professional life with personal interests like baking. Get in touch with or go see Tom live on stage! Radio, Podcasts and more: https://linktr.ee/tompapa/ Website - http://tompapa.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tompapa Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/tompapa Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/comediantompapa #TomPapa #breakingbreadwithTomPapa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Harold that Casey and I did not wear our Red Sox hats into Yankee Stadium during the playoffs. During the playoffs. And I called Jen immediately and I was like, this shall not stand. It's breaking bread. And scene. How are you doing? I'm good, man. This is the final interview.

This is? Of this little press run for the instigators. Yeah. Beautiful. A toast. A toast. toast to you. Thank you.

I can't believe you're making movies. In a time when no one's making movies, you guys are making movies and fun movies. This is a great movie. It's really fun. This is the kind of movies. Like, you guys are making the movies that they don't want to make anymore, which are just fun, adult, funny, action, whatever kind of films. Yeah, I mean, our North Star for this one was Midnight Run, which is an absolutely unattainable masterpiece. Yeah.

I mean, that movie is a Swiss watch. It's, like, so perfect. Is that your favorite movie? It's up there for sure. Yeah. For sure. It's right at the top. And in terms of movies that I've seen more than it, I mean, yeah, every single actor in that movie is so good.

So, yeah, it's just, I love it. So, yeah, I mean, you always start out with that, you know, it's like every movie, it's Butch and Sundance. I remember being drunk in your kitchen one night and going, we should just make midnight, run. And you're like, yeah, okay. How are you going to do that? It's like, okay, boomer. Let's go make men there. I'm like Charles Groden, aren't I? Oh, God, they're so good in that movie. But yeah, but we ended up with this movie. It's really fun. It's really funny. And it moves really quickly. Yeah. You know, I'm really happy with how it came out.

I love movies that are just about people who don't know what they're doing. Right, right. It's always fun to watch. It's always fun to watch. It's always fun to watch. even the people that are kind of like in charge in this movie that are like, you know, the badasses, even they're making mistakes. organized crime element or because we were like there's no real yeah you know the organized crime is pretty disorganized now and right and uh but then we were like well wait why don't we just

why don't we just have fun with that like the two big bosses in the movie are like work at a bakery which i was very happy to see yes a famous bakery in boston too um but uh but you know that that idea of it allowed us to kind of make this world of it's like a heightened reality but it's kind of grounded. Yeah. You know, still grounded. Yeah,

it felt very grounded to me. It didn't feel like... Yeah, that's... I mean, Doug Lyman is so, you know, the director is so good

at kind of building a world and having a kind of a unified tone around his movies. I mean, Swingers was his first movie, then Go, then The Born Identity.

Right. He's just done like Mr. and Mrs. Smith and Edge of Tomorrow, all these movies that are really unique in their tone. Yeah.

But they're really entertaining and really, and, you know, oftentimes really funny. It is, this one's really funny. last night when I was watching it, I just started writing down lines just because there's so many great lines in it.

Yeah. It's just so small. Like you're just playing it real, but it's really funny. Like when you're passing Casey off, you're like, you're going to love him. Yeah, right. Yeah, you're going to love him. It's these little small things. Well, there are a lot of the actors, like I couldn't, you know, I think that's because

of Doug. A lot of these incredible actors showed up to do like one or two scenes. Right. And they elevated everything. Like everything these guys touch, they come in and they just make it so much better and so much funny. Yeah. And then there was stuff that we just improv that we just, you know, you have the template for the scene and you get it a few times. And then you start just taking swings and sing.

And there's a lot of really good stuff that came out of that. Right. It's so good. What are the odds that my scene that got cut out of air could go in this movie? Could go in this movie. You know, Ben's still really upset about that? Is he? No, because it was, the scene was.

great. It was like, it really was a great scene. And where we fucked up was with the script, what ended up happening is we went with that moment where I discuss, when I see the shot and I see him make the shot and I go in and I pitch Bateman and I'm like this is greatness.

From that moment on, Sonny, my character can't be going to other people and going Do you think he's great? Right? Which is what that scene was. Yeah. It was me and you in a restaurant. And I go to you and you're the owner of Portland. Right. And I go to you and I go, why did you, you're the GM of Portland. I go, why'd you

pass on Jordan? And you, you know, and it's this scene. It's a kind of tense scene, yeah, between these two guys. And, and in the original construct of the movie, there was a whole kind of 20 pages where Sonny's kind of investigating. Right. What happened here? Why did he go third instead of first? And what am I missing? And am I missing something? Yeah. But when we landed on that scene where it crystallizes around him making the shot and wanting the ball in that moment and he's a killer and all that stuff. That stuff just had to go.

So Ben was like, because the scene itself was so good. It's another very good lesson in the kind of the editing process, what they say is your hierarchy has to go movie, scene, moment. And actors work the opposite way. We worry about these moments

and then we turn it into the scene and then the movie. Right. If you're editing the movie, that's your hierarchy. And so you will kill any great scene for a movie. You will kill any great moment for the benefit of the scene. Right. Right. And that was a great scene that we had to kill.

We were really good. We were fantastic. We were really good. I mean, I even put on two pounds for the roll. I know. I saw that. I saw that extra two that you put on for us. I was like the night before I was eating a lot of salt.

And my wife was like, aren't you going to be filming tomorrow? I was like, no, this character, he wouldn't. come back on salt. He would, yeah. That's the kind of commitment we knew we would get and he hired Tom.

But yeah, well, we'll put you in the next one. Yeah, I, I've had so much, I've gotten so much mileage off of comedically talking

about being cut out of a movie on my radio show that it's actually just fine. Well, if it's any consolation, Ben feels fucking horrible about it. That's good.

That's good to know. It is good to know. Do you, I was going, going to do a gig last week in a city that I swore I'd never been in before. And when I was backstage after the show, the guy came up and he was like, this was really good even better than last time. I was like, well, last time. He goes, yeah, you were here two and a half years ago. I was like, in this theater? He said, yeah, in this theater. I was like, no. But that's just how many gigs.

I think that's also our age. Like, I've noticed that, like, I can remember shit that happened 30 years ago, but, like, last year's tougher sometimes. Like, I get, you know what I mean? Like, I can have full experiences or meet somebody. I know. Yeah, does that happen? I think it's starting.

We're at the age where that shit is started. It's not just reps? It's not, no, I don't think it's just reps. I mean, that doesn't help for sure. Do you ever catch yourself, like, on cable or something when you're flipping around, and you're like, what movie is this? somebody did a thing with me today where they were like okay you know here's a line from yours in a movie and it was yesterday and can you and was challenging the other radio host to say what's his next line

and then challenging me and I'm like I don't know what I say next in that movie I have no way no idea I haven't seen it or thought about it in a really long time but it made me feel like oh how much of this stuff am I forgetting yeah can do you your brain just dump stuff like from roll to roll. Yeah, but I think it's at this age where it starts dumping more stuff unexpectedly. Right. Where you go like, wait, I should know that. Right.

And also years start to pass quicker. So suddenly, why can't I remember that guy's name? And you're like, oh, that was 17 years ago that we did that thing. And, you know, God, it felt like just yesterday. Yeah. And I got to put it in a different category. I remember we were doing a scene in the informant. and we were in the back of a limo with Rick Overton.

And it was just something was wrong and they kept having to do it. And one point, Rick goes, we're going to be talking about this for years. And I was like, no, Rick, you and I might be talking about this for years. Man, he's done so many films at this point. I don't think this one's going to really register. Well, I'll tell you, that movie did. That's one of my favorite movies that I've ever been a part of. Well, you were so great in that movie.

Everybody would. That's a really good movie. Yeah. And, you know, that and air were probably the two most fun filming experiences that I had. Really? Just in terms of how much I had to do. So it was really like, you know, there are other movies that have been great, but it's like there are a lot of days where you show up and all you have to do is walk through a door.

Right. There's no. But those movies were, it was like constant engagement. It was like a massive long scene. with other people, everybody having a bunch to do, choreographing, coordinating all that, and staying ahead of the work and staying on top of it was so full and busy, but at the same time, so joyful.

Right. Like, we laughed so much on that set. It was really fun. Because Stephen is just in complete control, always, like complete control. Yeah. And so you're never worried that you're not going to make the day, or you're not going to know what I mean?

Right, no stress. There's not that kind of stress. Yeah. There's the joyful stress of like, what can we do to make this the best version of what it can be? And it's just, it's the most fun you can have making movies. Do you, what have you gotten, maybe surprised you or not surprised you? What have you gotten really good at as an actor that you would have stressed about 20 years ago? Like, what is, is it?

I think I can relax more. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Because you know. You're not as, it's not new? I'm not gripping the golf club as tightly. Right.

I mean, which never helped. Uh-huh. And the fear of loosening your grip is that you're not going to have a grip on it. Right. And the lesson is that that's actually the way to do it. Right. So I feel like I'm better at that. I'm much less patient.

Oh, really? Yeah. You want, if people are messing with the lights or? Yeah, it's not even messing with the lights. It would be a director who doesn't know what they're doing. doing. I can't know more than the director. It just drive me crazy. Yeah. That's going to be unusual at this point. You've been working with everybody. Yeah, but you know, coverage. Coverage. Make up your fucking mind. It's an arc form. I mean, you know. Yeah. I mean, you know.

No, but there's that, that mentality of just hosing it down with coverage and you just go, well, that's not directing. I mean, a Reesus monkey could do that. It's the line in Argo. direct the Reisus Monkey could do that. But it's true in that way of doing it, versus Stevens way of doing it, which is just, you know, or even someone like Alexander Payne, who will do 40 takes of something,

but the shot is going to be in the movie. Right. I'll do as many takes as we need for a shot that's going to be in the movie. Yeah. But not just a, I'm not sure, so let's just keep shooting. You know what I mean? From all different angles and just trying to, Right.

Because it's just, it's, that kind of presupposes that what we can do, we can just do forever. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so like the, like the Stanley Kubrick way of shooting where he'll do a hundred, he would do a hundred takes. Like, I would be, that would be joy for me to do a hundred takes of a shot that I know is going to be in the movie. Really? Really fun to, to try, because everyone's got to coordinate and everybody's got to, you know, all the different departments have to work perfectly.

And it's got to sit perfectly with his eye. Right. David Fincher's like that. Like Ben had a ball working with David. And David works, you know, does numerous takes, but it's because he can't unsee what he sees. And so, so that's, that's a very different thing. Yeah. From just not knowing what you want.

Do you think from doing it for so long that you have that, like you could do that? I wonder if I wanted to go and direct. I directed, I mean, I want, you know, I can, as a, it would be my first time directing, my guess is I'd probably cover a lot more than I would be. than I would tolerate somebody else coverage. You know? This coverage isn't so bad. Yeah.

I think we need it. I mean, it'd be good to have. But, yeah, I think that that, and I don't want to be less patient. Right. But I also am more, I'm more aware of what, of the time that we're wasting than I used to be. You know what I mean?

I used to be like, well, it might be in the movie. Yeah. Rather than the director is not making choices the way a director should. But are you, I'm more patient in my life now at this age. Like I have a little bit more of things aren't that big a deal. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Do you have that just in your everyday life? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think hopefully a kind of a more of a, you know, that older middle age calm. Yeah. Right. Exactly. So it's really just, if you can sense incompetence, then it's going to drive you.

It's like when you go up to Starbucks and you're like really excited because you're the only person there, there's no big line at the airport or whatever, and they take forever. And it's like, no, this is the goal. This is going to all work out perfectly. And it's like, no, someone's not doing their job. Who's not doing their job? Well, I think the other, I think what it is is that there are other places I'd rather be. Like to work now is to be away from my kids, you know what I mean? Right.

And I see that, you know, as, you know, our second daughter's on our way to college, and we've got two more daughters left. Yeah. Like, I see that, you know, there's a shot clock on that whole experience. Yeah. And if I'm going to miss it, you know. It better be. You know, we should all be rowing in the same direction. Yeah.

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So he, so that was one, you know, that's everyone in my house is a Chris Nolan fan. So that was an easy, easy one to do. But it was also a supporting role. So I went and came back. Right. And I was one of the first people on the film. so Chris protected in the schedule my kids spring vacation so that I could go on a trip with them. Right. Which was amazing and really, really amazing. But yeah, I haven't, other than that, I haven't left.

Yeah. I haven't left New York. Wow, that's great. And I haven't worked in 15 months. I mean, I haven't shot in 50. I haven't shot since this one. Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, that's great. We do a thing on this podcast called, uncomfortable moment where uh it feels like that was built for me yeah uh we do uh we have our researches go through and if there's something that's kind of controversial we'll bring it up fantastic and uh uh do you need more water are you okay i'm all right all right because you might after this so you talk about living in new york and uh and and uh staying here and not going around and shooting and stuff which is great and good family moment and uh this movie takes place in Boston.

You are Boston. You threw out the first pitch, right? I did. Just the other day. How did it go, by the way? I didn't see the throw. The throw was fine. I've never thought more about the mechanics of throwing a baseball while throwing a baseball.

Yeah. I did it in 2004, and I just went out there and ripped it and just forgot about it. But this, there was such a buildup to this, and it was a Red Sox Yankees game. Right. That I was, by the time I did it, I was. I think I threw a strike, though. Right. That's good.

But Casey and I threw out at the same time. Oh, really? Yeah, so we threw to two catchers. Oh, nice. Were you better than Casey? At least? I like to think I was. Good.

Though Casey played third base on his Park League baseball team, but he had elbow surgery, so he was at a disadvantage. But we did batting practice, which was a disaster. Whoa. I couldn't see. I couldn't see the ball anymore. Like my eyesight. is so fucking terrible.

It was so frustrating. I hit one to the warning track, but I didn't get it. I didn't get it, though. Like, I was like, I just want to turn on one. Like, the last time I did it there, I hit a couple off the wall. And my kids were there. I just wanted to hit one off the wall in front of my kids. Yeah.

It didn't happen. Brutal. Yeah, I can't golf anymore because I hit the ball and it's like, anybody? Anybody see it? You just can't see it. That means your head's down. It should go straight. I'm looking.

I just can't see anything anymore. So yeah, you are Boston. Great thing at the Red Sox. But we dug this out of the archives, and I don't know if this is recent, or if this is from a while ago. That is the worst photoshopping job I've ever seen. I don't know what you're talking about.

That is absolutely the light. That's worse than the Lee Harvey Oswald photoshopping. It's like my picture's taken at noon, the guy who's, you know, it's at night. I don't know. This is clearly Yankee Stadium. And that is you in a, I think a cheater jersey. And you are losing your marbles.

Yeah, that is. You look like a super fan. I don't know who your friend is next to you. That's that. I know, who is that guy punching me in the arm? Actually, we went in 2004. Casey and I went to the, I think it was game two of the Yankees Red Sox. And there, we were just talking about this today because my publicist, Jen, who, you know, we've been working together for almost 30 years.

Wow. I never respond to stories. I just, you know, whatever story, stupid gossip rumor, none of it's ever true. And so there's no point in responding. Right. But they ran a story and it ran in the Boston Herald that Casey and I did not wear our Red Sox hats into Yankee Stadium during the playoffs.

During the playoffs. And I called Jen immediately and I was like, this shall not stand. She's like, you're responding to a story? I was like, no, listen to what the story was. because I was getting calls from Boston. The Boston Herald has suggested that Casey now, how dare they? She was like, and she's a Yankee fan, so she's like, ugh. She's like brutal for her to have to call them.

But we got a correction. You had worn your hat. Written correction. I'm very sorry they wore their hats. When we first met on the informant, our characters were a little antagonistic. and we hadn't really know we didn't know each other at all and I'm a Yankee fan

and I was like I don't know if I should wear my Yankee hat around Matt if we're going to become pals I probably shouldn't wear it but I was like you know what for our characters we should be a little prickly and there was a cocktail thing happening at one of the bars

which was the hotel bar which was every night at the informant and I wore it I wore my hat down and you can came in and you did clock it. You were just like, huh. And I was like, but I wanted you to know how dedicated I am to the art. I like that.

I was willing to. What I loved about that character that you played and that relationship. Was he's like the one guy who always sees right through. Mark, what are he saying? Mark. What are you doing? Mark, you know, like, fuck it. Like, just don't like that guy.

Something's fucking. wrong with that guy. It's so funny. Are you watching the Olympics? I haven't watched a lot. Because I'm running around doing this, but I'll start watching. I'll start watching after tonight. We got the premiere tonight and then I'll dig in.

I'm a sucker for it though because they do the human interest story and I don't care if it's fucking badminton. I'm in. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. Like what these people, just the commitment to get there. I know.

It's awesome. Yeah. I have a pitch I want to do for the L. Olympics. Midnight run. After I'm making midnight run. It's Tom Papa

average Olympian where you watch them do the 200 meter backstroke and you see what time they did and all that. And when you're home

watching, you're like, I wonder how I would do in that. And then I, as a representative of the regular people, go in the pool

and do it. And then you get to see like what an average guy. How long it would really take? That's a great idea. Would take. That's a funny. I mean,

I would totally watch. that right it's a good idea yeah um a hundred we had Casey had the idea to promote this movie because the movie's about these fucking knuckleheads who who try to pull off a heist and they just don't know anything and it goes about as well as you can imagine um Casey was like what if we went to the Olympics and challenged Olympians at their like events I could do it what would it look it's that it's kind of like your idea like yeah how long would it take us to run a hundred meters like 13 seconds. Oh, please.

13. Forget it. So that was kind of Casey's idea. Apple didn't bite on that one. He came up with his idea. He was like, what if we played, what if you and me played doubles tennis against the William's sisters? He's like, what do you think would happen? I was like, 6060 would happen.

What do you think? Exactly. We would get rocked. But it was a funny idea. Even badminton, I was like, oh, I could probably do badminton. Forget it. No way. They're so fast.

They're so good. So good. I don't, yeah, I don't know. I think maybe I could do BMX, because I was pretty good at jumps and stuff when I was a kid. BMX in our 50s? Yeah, on those little bikes. They don't do that. They're like, oh, look, I bet my, look, my handlebars went this way.

See, you're like Casey. You should talk to Casey, because Casey's convinced somebody asked him what Olympic sport he could meddle in, and he really thought about it. And I was like, you're such a fucking idiot. You couldn't meddle in anything. and he finally was like curling. And I was like, you just offended all of Canada. Curling has got to be so much harder than you think it is.

You don't know anything about curling. Like, why do you think you can meddle in curling? I just think if you really practice. That's how I feel with BMX. I'm like, I can go over a jump. What about speedwalking? Tom Popper, average Olympian on a BMX bike would be amazing. It would be in the hospital.

Because it would be in the hospital. Yeah, no, that's what you do. that's the sequel to Tom Papa Average Olympian is Tom Papa average Olympian at the X games just in the half pipe just yeah

we'd have to bubble wrap you and send you in the half pipe trying to get momentum I can't even go fast enough to get up to the landing because it would be so gnarly yeah in swimming just like grabbing onto the rope taking a break it turns out the 200 meter backstroke

can be completed in a half an hour You keep zigzagging. Casey's so good in the movie. Yeah, he's great. He's great. He's so good. He wrote it. He wrote it too.

I mean, we all worked on it, like in pre-production and stuff. We changed it a lot, but Casey and this guy, Chuck McLean, is another Boston writer, wrote it. And then they sent it to, he sent it to Lucy, actually, who read it. My wife read it, and she loved it. And she was like, you should do this movie. And I read it. and I agreed. It's really well written.

It's really well written. It's very Boston. They really understand that, those guys, those characters, and that kind of sense of humor and sensibility. Yeah. And yeah,

and Casey wrote this incredible part for himself, and then he wrote a part for me in a comedy, the part of a guy who doesn't speak, and his one characteristic is he never smiles. He never laughs once in the movie. That's his thing. And it's like a runner. Like, wow, you never, what is it going to take to make you laugh?

So that's who I get to play in the fucking comedy. You got funny lines, though. You got a lot of funny lines. Yeah. Yeah, I could see, though, you probably had him rewrite a bunch to make sure that your part was okay. Well, just to make sure it's the, it was the right foil for his character. You know what I mean? It was the right.

Yeah, it was definitely the right pairing. That car chase thing without giving anything away is Blues Brothers-esque. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of smashes. There's a lot of cars going down and there's a lot of funny happening in it. Well, that's the thing about Doug. So when we did like the born identity, for instance, all of the action comes out of the character. The characters drive the plot and not the other way around. And so all of the, you know, and this is exactly the same philosophy, which is there's this big car chase going on. But during the car chase, my psychiatrist is sitting shotgun. and Casey's in the back seat

and she's trying to do therapy on me while I'm in my first ever high-speed card chase and don't know what I'm doing and Casey's in the back figuring out that she's a psychiatrist and not a surgeon even though she just operated on his shoulder and so all that stuff

so the movie is kind of the momentum of kind of picking up and going forward while you know there's this blues brothers you know cars smashing into each other and everything in the back and the music changed the song just change the fucking song

it's so good Yeah. Yeah, that was all in Casey's script. That's great. So what do you mean, though? Like, the, the call comes from the character. Like, if the, if you guys don't have all that great dialogue, it's just, it plays flat. It plays flat and it's just, it's just the action, it's the car chasing, all of that stuff. Like, I was the, it's for Dan Bradley, who was a great, who's a great second unit director. He did some of the Bourne movies.

He used to talk about the French connection. And he goes, the greatest car chase in movie history is in the French connection. And if I did that, what technically they did in the French connection, I would be fired. Like there is nothing, if you look at the actual car chase, it was just that you're in the car with Gene Hackman. He's slamming the wheel. And you're just like, it's so great. And so the philosophy on all those born movies was, how are we furthering the story with this? What is, like in the first one, the one Doug directed, the born identity.

Bourne doesn't know that he can drive a car at high speeds in that situation and the cops are pulling up behind him Franca decides to stay with him and he's going you gotta get out of the car and she's going I feel safe and she just buckles her seatbelt

and it's like okay they're going to be together and now the cops are getting out and he pulls out a map and he just very calmly looking at this map and he doesn't know if he knows how to drive a car and he just says

do you take care of this car? And she goes, what? And he goes, the tires felt a little splashy on the way over here. And literally, that's all that. And then they just take off and they rock it. And it's this incredible. And the Parisian motorcycle cops are known

for just being badass. Like, you can't shake them. And he's got all these cops. He ends up using the small car going down an alley that barely fits. But the motorcycle cops, you know, he loses the cars, but now the motorcycle cops are. And he eventually loses all these guys

pulls into a parking garage and stops. And Doug just has us in this two shot, like, through the windshield. And he's kind of like breathing. And he looks, and he's at the spot on the map that he determined back at the train station when the whole thing he was starting. And it's like, and he's still trying to figure out how we know us how to do any of this shit. But he just say stop and there's this pause. And then he just looks at it.

And he's kind of embarrassed. Because it went really well. And it means he also knows how to do that. but that's pretty illegal what he just did. And he just says, you can never come back to this car. Like, we're going to wipe it down. We're going to take everything you need. We're never coming back to this car.

She's like, okay, okay. So it's all moving their relationship forward and their thing. But in the context of this really interesting car chase, where he uses the advantage of that car, which was a mini-cooper, which you're like the last fucking thing you want to be in a chase in. but he uses the mini cooper because it's small. He drives it in certain places. Yeah.

Yeah. It's funny because it's a, there's that moment when you guys look like you're in trouble in this, in this one, and the path kind of clears for a second. And you could see like you're trying to figure out like your life in that moment and then go for it. It's really, it's, it's, yeah.

The, it's the opposite of the born shit. Like born just. goes for the next best option aggressively and Rory, the guy I play and this has just no fucking idea what he's doing. Right, exactly. But it works out for him. Yeah, yeah. But he's such a good guy.

You like root for these guys. Like both of them like you really are rooting for them immediately. Like yeah. You just, you identify with them in a way. Like, well, I think it's, you know, that thing. If it's a heightened reality, it's a comedy and all that stuff. Yeah. Like it's grounded in the sense that like, you know, this guy has a debt.

He's in debt. And he feels like he can't see his kids. because he's in debt. And it's like, that's a relatable thing. Yeah. You know, there's political corruption in the movie. I think that's, you know, nobody's actually playing real people, but it's all feels like the world that we live in in.

Yeah. 20, 24. How much just as an acting thing, because we don't know that information of why you're doing it for this amount in the beginning, but we know that it's kind of noble. We know that it's a thing. Right. How much of that is just the writing and just staying out of the way of it and how much of it is you know it.

So you're kind of carrying it as an actor. Like, do you have, is that a complicated thing? No, no, I know what you're asking. It's, it's, it's, uh, I think a lot of that, you just play it honestly. And, and you don't want to get in the way, right, in any of the, you know, I think is, younger actor you want to show off more probably but the reality is like a novel you don't want to get in the way it's about what the audience feels not about what right you feel um it's not about showing people that you're feeling this thing right about them feeling it and so right so you just kind

of try to live it and you're you're kind of a cipher for them but but the script sets up the dilemma which is that this guy's in therapy he's clearly very he's kind of at the end of his rope yeah um he's got a therapist who cares about him and is very conscientious, but he's willing to try something kind of crazy. Yeah. And I think that's set up, like, because it feels grounded, he's clearly a seemingly honest guy. You know, that's your way in as an audience. Well, that's, I think that's a tribute to you in your acting also, because if it's a lesser actor, You could be kind of winking to the camera a little bit in a way of like, you make it.

It's almost like, I remember hearing Garrison Keeler talk about Prairie Home Companion, and we talk so quietly. And he said that people ask him, why do you talk so quietly? And he said, because the audience needs to hear you and they kind of lean in. Right. They kind of, they want to know. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's almost like that. Like your opening scenes in this film are like, you want to know because you're, You're not giving us a, you're not hamming it up. You're not giving it away. Well, it's also like, well, this isn't a comedy. Like, whoa, what's going on? Right, right, right. You know, and then it pretty quickly picks up.

But setting it that way with therapy, it's funny, it's a very pro-therapy movie. Ultimately, like, my psychiatrist ends up coming along on the, you know, and trying to help us because she basically does this very semi-reckless, semi-selless thing where she, She realizes that our best chances of surviving and not hurting anybody else are if she comes along. And so she's like actively trying to do therapy on me in all of these crazy situations. Culminating with, you know, she's wearing a bulletproof jacket and a bulletproof helmet. And she's still trying to do therapy and finally has a breakthrough with me. So like it's obviously a heightened reality. but again grounded in the sense that I think we all believe that that's how you that's how you work stuff out is working through it yeah all is Casey's trying to hit on her right exactly exactly here is a cool thing and I don't know if you recognize it in the beginning or if you would kind of like heard this the guy who hires you played by Michael Michael Stoolbargs yeah what has it says Stoolberg Stoolberg great actor I love him great actor oh my gosh

Great, great, great. Broadway, boardwalk empire and serious man. I mean, just the minute he showed up, you were like, oh, my God, this guy's so great. And in your honor, with, Kristen, so good. He's so good. But I was like, who's he remind me of, like right off the bat? He's got this full beard. And it's Robin Williams.

Oh, right. Did you feel that or get that? Well, he plays a guy. It's goodwill Robin Williams. Yeah, I didn't even think of. that because his energy he came in he was so he was so something entirely different and complete and like a complete version of that

that he never dinged me until you just said it right now oh yeah it does look like Robin did in that movie but but there was such a lack of the of the kindness and sensitivity that Rob had like their energy was so entirely different that they didn't look like the same thing to me they didn't look but they, but physically they do. You're right. And there's something behind his eye. Even his character,

like you kind of, he's scary, but at the same time, you're trying to figure out what he's about because there's, there is a... But that's the thing that, like, great actors, and he's one of them, for sure, show up and just elevate everything. Yeah. And we had these, like, Michael and Toby Jones, Paul Walter Houser, like, you know, these incredible actors show up and do very small parts. Yeah. Just because I think they wanted to work with Doug. Uh-huh. And, and that just makes it there's a there's a bit at the end i mean i don't want to give too much away but at the end when she's doing therapy on me that we just kind of did on the day where Toby jones comes over and he just started pouring himself a drink in the middle of his therapy session and it was so funny and i and i say

uh you know i have this big breakthrough and i say i don't want to die and there's this long kind of meaningful pause and case he raises his hand and goes i also don't want to know about And then Toby goes, I also don't want to die in case he goes, you're not a part of this, Alan. He's like, Alan, you're not a part of this. And that was just like, again, it was just because Toby did something that made Casey did something. Right, right. And it's just that thing that you get when great actors get, are put in the right circumstance. Yeah.

Yeah. Play it out. So with Michael, like, is that, is that, or all of them, is that, is that, is that just being really professional or really open? Both. To walk onto the set and be like, well, this guy's changing what we're, what's about the, he's going to change our day.

Yeah, it doesn't really change the day. I mean, the setup's the same. Like Fred Malia came in, Alfred Malia came in and he, he cut all of his lines. And goes, no, it's funnier if I come in at the very end of the scene and go, I got donuts. Right.

Yeah. I just make the donuts. He got donuts. And he did it and we all laughed. And we were like, yeah, that's right. That's funnier. But it's that just understanding. You know, there's a bit of writing to it, right?

And with a lot of great acting, I'm sure I told you that story about Jack Nicholson saying that to me years ago. Yeah. Because I never would have made it this far if I wasn't a great fucking writer. And it was like, oh, of course. Like, of course, the big and little ways in which you change. or do it out from Malita to cut. It's better if I don't say that line.

It's better if I don't, you know, what if I do this instead? And you get 10 really good people doing that and then you've got a really good ensemble. Yeah, when I looked up, when I, you never have that thing when you're like, who's that guy to remind me of? And then it hits you and you're like, ah, yeah.

And it's just bothering you for a beat. And it was the rob. I'm like, oh, it's Robin Williams. He has a Robin thing to him. in the later years with the beard. Yeah. And I just looked Michael up just to look him up on, and one of the first images was he could play a great late year Robin Williams.

Yeah. So it was like on the. Yeah, no, for sure. No, no, now that you say it, it's like, it's so obvious. Yeah. But I'm saying I didn't see it to speak to the kind of the greatness of both of those guys. Yeah. They can look identical.

Oh, yeah. come with such different energy that like I look at them as entirely different things. I don't even see a correlation. Right. Yeah. How much do you miss that Robin Williams isn't on our planet at the moment? Yeah, man. He was so special.

Oh. It's a weird one because it's like he had the most incredible brain. Yeah. Really. Right. And that's what ended up betraying him. Yeah. You know, and, uh, yeah, I don't know if like if you, if you were told you would get that brain,

you know, but you, you would, you could have, you would have to leave early. Right. Yeah. I know. I bet most people would take it. Yeah, I think so. Because it was really something. It was really something.

It brought a lot of joy to a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. I think you most would take it. I mean, he just, yeah, he just, yeah, he just was. was and very quiet and shy and serious. Serious about his work. Yeah.

But it's weird. I was talking about him the other day. And what a weird thing to, I mean, you must deal with this too. When you walk into a room, people expect you to be funny. They expect you to make them laugh right away when you walk in off the road. And he was the biggest movie star in the world at the time. and known for being the funniest guy. And just, you know, I can't imagine what that is like.

And yet he would, he had that brain that just went tangentially in kind of any direction. And, you know, he would be really quiet and serious. And you'd say something. And bing, suddenly it would trigger something. And he would suddenly be doing an impersonation of saying, and you go like, where the fuck did that come from? Constant. It would be so funny.

Yeah. that head was just constantly going. Yeah. I only met him a couple times here at the comedy cellar. And it was the quiet moments that I realized how, how active that brain was. Because he was just sitting there trying to like kind of blend it and just be with it. And people would say something. I would just, he would almost mutter funny stuff.

Right. He would just be like, yeah, yeah. He was just kind of like still going. Not for anybody. It was just falling out. Right. You know? Yeah.

man. I just remember, I think we were together in Costa Rica when that, when he left. Oh, yeah. That's right. And, uh, I do say, I mean, I do feel like it was a, it was a, uh, it was a, it was a, I was so confused. Mm-hmm. So completely baffled, because I hadn't seen him. Yeah. I'd seen him the year before. But I didn't know what was going on. Yeah. And then it was, like nobody did. It was comforting to hear that he had Louis Badi dementia. You know, It was comforting to hear that, oh, his brain was rebelling against his body, basically. And he felt like, you know, it had been hijacked and he needed a reboot. And I'm comforting in the sense that because I couldn't have made sense of it in any other way.

Because then it made sense to me. Like, of course, of course. You're basically in a house that's on fire and you've got to jump out the window. Right. But because he was so positive and loving and kind and loved his kids. and loved his and he's so such a role model for me that i that it that it didn't make sense until i heard that and then it made totally yeah because you don't want someone who's filled with that much joy and love to go out that way you're like no wait what you can't do it then how can i do it

how can anybody do yeah but then to know yeah that's that's that's that they answered a big calm to everybody down yeah yeah god what a soul too that's the other crazy thing that crazy brain and that big, just, gregarious love bomb that came out of him. Yeah. He loved, he loved, certainly loved us and gave love, a lot of love to us. Yeah.

But it seemed to me like he loved everybody. Yeah. You know. So beautiful. Yeah. When we were in Costa Rica, and I was trying to learn to surf, and I fell on the surfboard

and bruised my rib. I think it was broken. I just want you to know that it really was almost broken because then I didn't participate in surfing the rest of the trip, and I felt like you guys thought I was being a sissy. I feel like you were a little scared.

I wasn't scared. I mean, Matt B. was out there almost drowning every day. He really was. Just getting pummeled, and I could have done, but I couldn't lay down on the board anymore. No, I know. I know. That must have hurt.

You want to know something funny? Cynthia and my wife wanted me to paddleboard. She loves activities. She wanted me to get on a part of, paddleboard and I don't want to do it. And then last summer I finally gave in and did it, fell again. You hit the same route? No way. Did you really?

Well, paddleboarding, if you do it on water where there's any chop at all, it's very, very difficult. No tips. No one gave me any advice. They just sent me out in the ocean. In the ocean. That's a terrible idea. It was horrible. We had one when we lived in Miami on like the inner coastal.

Dead canal. You can paddleboard forever and feel like a champ. But when you get in chop, no, that's I literally, my wife said, I was falling so much that it looked like I was kidding. Like, I was just like falling. It's so bad when you're in job and you can't stand up. You know, I remember learning out of doing you stand up and fall down. You feel like such an idiot.

It just looks like you're doing a terrible bit. Like, it's not even a funny bit. No. And you won't stop doing it. He's hilarious. Yeah. I was like, the lifeguard was looking up like, is this a really a thing? And then I broke, yeah, I messed up that rib.

The good thing is I don't have to paddleboard anymore. You don't have to do any board sports anymore. No. You're done. You're done. I'm completely done. I think we're getting to the age where we really can opt out of things now. We're not lacking adventure anymore.

No. We're just being sensible. Right, exactly. I know. There's a lot of things I don't have to try. I just don't have to try that. Do you think about that in those terms? Like, I always used to think any life was kind of possible for me.

Like, maybe I'll just do that. but now you're at the age you're like there's no chance I could do that now it's too late I always thought I can run a marathon right I could do the marathon one day yeah but not the year I got something going on yeah but I can run the marathon just do it next year I'll just and I went for a run like a month ago I was like there's no way that's over like the delusion of running the delusion of running a marathon but the delusion of wanting to run a marathon oh yeah completely over for me I ran a half marathon like eight years ago and I was like I finished and I was like, now, would I want to do that whole thing again right now?

Nope. Never going to do a marathon. Terrible idea. I remember hearing about Kubrick, that Kubrick really loved to be at home working in his office and just knowing his family was around. And when I heard that as a younger man, I thought, well, it's kind of odd. Like, does he want to, like, hang with the family? Like, what is?

And now I get it. It's like, yeah, I get to work. which is your love. And then you have the other people around, which is your other love. Right. And they're all safe. Yeah.

And they're all, everyone's okay. You can hear them in the other room. Yeah. That's peace. Yeah. It's such a beautiful thing. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. I can definitely relate to that. Yeah. So when we go to the premiere tonight, I'm going to go. Yeah. Is there going to be any food? Excellent question.

Any snacks or anything? I don't actually know. Is there food at the thing? They usually do the food after at the after party, and I have people with plates walking around. It's a jazz in Lincoln Center. I love it. So it should be pretty classy.

It is really nice. I performed there once. Oh, did you? Yeah. It's a cool space. Yeah, yeah. It's really cool space. And James Gandalfini was in the audience in the front row.

Oh, wow. And I'd never met him. And it was with a couple other people from the show. And anytime I would try and get a laugh, I would look over and see if he was laughing. Did you get him at all? Oh, yeah. Yeah. He grew up in the same town that Cynthia and I grew up in.

Oh, really? Park Ridge, New Jersey. Oh, cool. Yeah. Like, I don't know, five years ahead of us, so we never met him. Wow. But, yeah. God.

I'm rewatching that with Isabella right now. Are you? Yeah, it's so fucking good. Oh, it's so good. It's just so good. They're all so good. They're so amazing. Yeah.

Amazing. We do one other thing on this podcast. You know, I bake bread and I like to cook and we like fine wine and all that kind of stuff. But I'm also from New Jersey. And I like garbage. And we do a little taste test of whatever weird stuff I can find in a bodega. What do we have? I never saw this before.

It's a bag of shrimp crackers. That is gross. Okay. Have you ever heard of these? I haven't. You know, I'm gluten-free now, but I'll eat one for you. You are gluten-free? Yeah, I just...

So no more... I can't give you bread? I know, can you believe that? Well, I can break it for every once in a while. I'll break it for your bread. All right. I'm about to break it for fucking shrimp crackers. So clearly...

So you weren't gluten-free before. No. No, I got a new doctor, and we did a three-month... did no alcohol, dairy, caffeine, sugar, gluten. Okay. And when I went back to gluten, I definitely felt

it. I felt, I didn't feel great. That was the one of all those things? I'm not giving up any the other ones. Thank God. Yeah. Hold on. Let me try a shrimp cracker. Did we have anything to wash this down with? Yeah, could we grab another water?

Fantastic. Yeah. You know, I'll tell you, it tastes exactly like it sounds. A shrimp cracker. That is weird. You ever go fishing? It's not good. It's not good. At a 10, I'd give it a two.

I'd give it a two. Like when you ever go fishing as a kid, and you have like a bucket with bait in it, you're like, oh, that smells so bad. It tastes like a bait cracker. You're right. It tastes like a bait cracker. Oh, it gets weirder after you eat it.

Yeah. It keeps getting weirder. What's crazy is I'm wondering, who's this for? It says shrimp crackers, and then there's writing in Asian, and then it says spicy flavor, savor picante. So it's like, we are throwing this out to anybody who will eat them. It's like, so who are they for? Pretty much anybody in the world.

We'll take anyone. Anyone dumb enough to try this? Oh, wow, that is so weird. It's an endless array of stuff out there, though. It is amazing. Well, and it doesn't stop this one. It just stays with you. How much better do you feel?

Because you look slim in this film. I got to say, you look good. You were in fighting weight, and you didn't have to be. Yeah, and I dropped a few after that. I mean, I got in much better shape when I did this thing. I wasn't working or anything. I just was... You shot this before the...

I shot this, yeah, yeah, along the stuff. Yeah, and then went off the stuff just this year. Okay. But yeah, no, I was in, I was relatively fit for this. Yeah. And then, yeah, and then this new little health kick has been, it's been good. Did it change your diet other than gluten? Not really, no.

I mean, I still don't eat refined sugar if I can, you know, I mean, if there's a, if there's like a birthday cake, oh, that's a big cheat because that's, that's everything. Right, yeah, right. And dairy, sugar, everything. But like, maybe I'll do a little bit of that, but, but no, by and large, like trying to lay off the sugar and gluten. Remember you and Scott Bakula were talking about how you stay in shape for your films and projects. And you were going, you were saying, like, I don't eat this.

And I run like this or I do these weights. And Scott was saying, yeah, I do, I go to UCLA and I run the stadium. I run the stadium steps. And I'm sitting there looking at you guys. And then Scott goes, what do comedians? What's the comedian's regiment? And you go, cheese burgers late at night?

I'm like, hey, guys. But it is. I mean, it's like, you guys work late. It's like, you're, I mean, it's a tough racket. It's a tough racket. How often do you come and perform here, like, at the cellar? Like, are you still popping in and working? Yeah.

Yeah. I just shot a new special. Oh, really? It's going to come out in October. I just shot it a couple weeks ago. How to go. It was good. Yeah?

In D.C., yeah. In D.C. Yeah. Why did you pick D.C.? At the Warner Theater. I just picked favorite cities that I like to perform in, you know. And it was, yeah, it went great. And then I'm kind of empty now, so I got to fill up the well.

God, man. As I go tour around and write and stuff. And I come to the live radio show here like every month and a half about that, which is just like a, you know, you did that show. Yeah. ago. It's like a little writer's lab. I just love... Are you still doing Andy Rooney?

No, I haven't done Rooney in a while. Because then it morphed into this thing I was doing for Prairie Home Companion where it was using kind of the same device. Right, right, right. But for like Out in America, it was called Out in America. Out in America. And I would do these Andy Rooney kind of thing

of, have you ever been in Boston and falling off one of those boats? I have. right right right that kind of thing so like i kind of burned it out during prairie home companion and uh yeah i don't do it anymore but it was really fun last night there was great new comics like i put some newer comics that are you know just about to pop it was so great just to have like fun people you don't really know that well yeah yeah yeah just keep coming that's great they just keep coming well i feel I feel like it's had a massive resurgence, you know, like since, I mean, it's just Netflix and, you know, everybody's got these specials that are great and they're really popular.

People watch them constantly. Yeah. So I think there's a younger generation of, you know. Yeah. It's amazing, too, when you just go online and you see people, just regular people on TikTok and stuff being so funny. Right. Like, people are just cranking stuff out all over their own way. like J.D. Vance had that thing about having sex with a couch and then boom, everybody's making

videos. Within 20 minutes. There's great comedy bits out there. Well, everyone's got a good camera and, you know, yeah. It's just insane. Well, this is great catching up. It's fun when you get to sit with a friend and just ask questions. You can't really ask when you're hanging out. Anyone is going to listen to this. Well, probably not. But we got to hang out. We got to hang out. This will go into the ether. Any trim crackers? Yeah, shrimp crackers. That was my takeaway from today.

I think we got interesting stuff. I think we got some good, good insight. Okay, good. I gave you everything I had. Are you, uh, soon as you know, you're going to go home, rest and then go to the premiere and then you'll be done when you get some time off? Yeah, we're all going to the apartment, to the old apartment. Everyone's getting ready over there. Oh, really?

Come over with Cynthia. Come on over. Oh, really? Before him? Before the premiere? Yeah. Oh. We'll probably have a couple cocktails before the, we'll pre-gates.

game. Oh, that'll be fun. My old apartment, which do you know, I don't know if I told you this, do you know who lived above me? No. There were, my friend Larry Schultz and his wife, Sandra, lived above me. And they had these two kids, Greg and Andrew, and they would skateboard around. And I just, my whole life, I knew that I watched these kids grow up. And then subsequently got really, you know, I watched comedians, you know, I love.

to watch comedians and watch them online and stuff. And I really got into this guy, Andrew Schultz, and found out a couple years ago, met somebody who goes, oh, you, you grew up, you know, my friend grew up in that building. And I go, oh, yeah, Andrew, oh, yeah, Larry's boy. Yeah, I go, what's he up to? He goes, he's a very, very successful standup here.

That's so weird. And I go, fucking Andrew Schultz is Larry's kid? That's so crazy. So yeah, so I'm in touch with him now. It's just this incredibly random thing that, you know, he grew up on the floor above me. And I had no idea. Yeah, I had no idea. You wouldn't have heard of him until he became like a world famous comedian.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So that was great. That was a fun. That was a fun. Reunited you. Well, yeah, that sounds fun. Maybe I'll bring the shrimp crackers.

Oh, God. We can make everyone try them. They'll be off air. So, you know, their reactions might be a little more X-rayed. You're the best. Congratulations. Thanks for having me. This is a great way to close out the whole Instigators promo stuff.

All right. Go Instigators.