Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 23 - Joe Rogan

Episode Date: October 13, 2020

This week I flew to Austin, TX to break bread with my good friend, comedian and podcast giant Joe Rogan. In many ways Joe is responsible for spreading the word about my bread and starting us on this fun journey and now we share it with you!  Our pals at Wine Access and Helix Mattresses come along for the ride.  Check out Wine Access Unfiltered wherever you listen to podcasts – premiering on 10/22! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus It's time for Breaking Bread with Papa Hey! Don't you know? Hey, it's how we go. Hey, it's time for Breaking Bread with Papa. Hey, don't you know? Hey, it's also a show. Hey.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. I am Tom Papa. Thank you so much for being here. We have an amazing podcast today with the great Joe Rogan. I flew all the way to Austin, Texas to sit down with Joe. It's going to be a great one. Thank you all for listening. You guys are the best.

Make sure you subscribe to the podcast wherever you do listen. If you listen on iTunes, wherever you get it, make sure you subscribe and leave us some positive feedback. That would be great. Some stars are always nice for people to see. If you like watching this on YouTube, always subscribe there as well and give us some good love there as well. It's always nice to spread the word.

because I really enjoy doing this and breaking bread with all of you. Our show today is sponsored by our good friends at Wine Access. You know how much I love Wine Access. They are a great service that is able to send you wine with story and with information and kind of help you navigate your way through the wine world. But today I'm very excited because they have a brand new podcast called Wine Access Unfiltered. It's a podcast that takes you behind the bottle with Napa Insider, Amanda McCrossin, and Master of Wine, Vanessa Conlin. I did the podcast.

I was on the podcast as a guest. It's great. You sit. You open bottles of wine with them. You enjoy it. You talk. You enjoy your life. And I mean, come on.

And they're so great. Super funny. Super cool. So make sure you listen wherever you subscribe to a podcast. Make sure you look them up also at wine access.com slash podcast. Also on today's show, we'd like to give a shout out to Helix Sleep. Take their two minutes sleep quiz and they'll match you to a mattress that will give you the best sleep of your life. You can find your perfect mattress at Helixleep.com slash Papa P-A-P-A.

You literally, it's pretty cool. even if you sleep with another person, you go in, you download all your information and tell them what your desires are, what kind of mattress you like, how you sleep, all the whole bunch of stuff, very detailed, and then you get the perfect mattress. Come on, what's better than that? Joe Rogan, this is, Joe is so excited about this podcast. Joe, of course, has the biggest podcast in the world. He is in Austin, Texas now. I flew in. I flew in. to go see him and spend some time. I did his podcast, and then he was kind enough to be a guest on my podcast. And I have to say, he's such an inspiring guy and such a good friend. He's all about

just lifting everybody up. And when you get into the story of his life as we do when we're breaking bread together, you just see where he came from and what he had to do and what he had to learn to become such a good, centered, inspiring person, which is how I see him. He's a great comedian, but he's also an incredible dad and husband, and just always curious, super curious and super dialed in, morally dialed in. And he's not afraid to bring controversial figures onto his program, just to hear it all out, but he never really varies from what is right and what is wrong. And it's kind of a brave thing to do, to be able to entertain people from all ilk and then

see whether they make sense or not and call people out when they're wrong and shine a light when they're right. And it's so great. And more than that, I have to say, he's been inspiring to me not only comedically, but also for this podcast for my public-bred life. is the guy when I went on his podcast with my first loaves of bread and started telling him exactly what I was doing. Even though he was a pure keto diet at the time, we started to share bread and he shared his elk meat with me and we just had a perfect pairing. He is the greatest.

I'm so happy to call him my friend and you will as well. Please enjoy Joe Rogan. Look at you on a podcast. I feel like this deja vu. It's so weird. How do you like my new studio? It's weird. It looks like mine. I know.

I don't mind you copying it. You've always been to such an influence. And I figured, you know, I mean, it's not exactly like yours, but it's close. No, it's definitely not exact. People hate the studio. Do they really? Why? What fans or guests?

Yeah. Well, you know, the fans that will comment, which is a lot like people that sign polls. You know, people that answer polls and people that comment on whether or not your studio looks like shit. Basically the same fucking people. Yeah, some wacko that you don't really, you shouldn't be listening to. For the most part, I would say, yeah, don't listen to them. But they just don't like change. It's polarizing.

Well, it's a rough change. It's a lot of change. You know, it's red and black. It's very stark. It's smaller and tighter. I think there's something good. about the size, though. Yeah, I like it.

It's like very condensed. It feels more Asian. It's definitely more Asian. Yeah. Well, Ganesh is over there. And then we also have Vooda on the table. Where do Ganesh come from? Thailand, I bought it in Thailand.

Oh, you bought that? Yeah. Wow. They gave it to me. It's still like, like here, we spent so much time making this. They hand those out at the airport. Everybody gets one. What is the, what's the, what's the Ganesh story?

He is a remover of boundaries. Oh. Ganesh removes boundaries. That's a cool thing I have in your studio. Removes obstacles. Right. It's a remover of obstacles. That's what it is.

Right. Yeah. You don't seem like you have a lot of obstacles. Because of Ganesh. Ganesh showed up. Before Ganesh showed up. Yeah. Thinking about Ganesh tattoo now.

But seriously, you have one of those things. I have, like, I have certain friends very successful friends and they all have this common thing from the outside. It seems like they just get in their mind that they're going to do something and they do it. And where I have other friends who are pretty successful who don't have that same, there's like they almost have it. They almost have the thing, but it's the will kind of, there's a little bit of a doubt. Like maybe someone won't let me move to Texas and build something. Or maybe someone won't let me make this TV show. Do you feel like you carry that? Do you carry a determination

that's, I'm going to make it so? Sometimes I think and sometimes not. I think it's, I have a good sense of rhythm, meaning I know when's the time to act. When's the time to do things? and when's not the time to do things. Uh-huh. I feel like if you can live your life in the most pure way that you can't, like if you can be in the moment, as much as possible, you can sort of think of where you're supposed to be, what you're supposed to be doing.

And this moved from California to Texas was a very weird one, because I've lived in California since 1994, so 26 years. And I only briefly moved to Colorado. Right. And my decision to do this and to just go. Yeah. Was, uh, it was a, it was a weird decision because I just like, how to decide and then go. Yeah.

And it was fast. And not just that, but move the whole podcast, move everybody with me. And it was a, there was a lot of shit going on, man. It was a lot of moving parts. But, yeah. But I felt, it felt right. Uh-huh. Like a thing that I should do.

And, uh, it felt. like there's something about big movements, big change like that. It activates a different part of your brain. And it makes you get out of your pattern completely. You have a totally different path, different drive to work, different scenery, different people around you, different places to go. Yeah. Different studio. Like all those different things, they set off these different sort of moods and different perspectives.

And it felt like the thing to do. Yeah. especially because I was seeing the writing on the wall in L.A. And I didn't like it. I didn't like what I was seeing. I don't see a way out of that. The L.A. scene that we knew seven, eight, nine months ago. Yeah.

I don't see that coming back anytime soon. Maybe not ever. What do you mean by that? Because I've heard you say that a bunch. Well, go down Melrose and see all the boarded up buildings. See all the boarded up storefronts on Hollywood Boulevard. You think that there's so much damage done that that stuff's not coming back? Economic damage.

of the shutdown and then physical damage due to the looting damage in the confidence that people have of law enforcement, damage in the confidence that people have with the community, damage in the confidence that people have towards their government. Turns out who your mayor is is really fucking important. I used to not think it was that important. I used to say, who gives a shit? What was he going to do? It's just a mayor.

But now you realize, like, your mayor can tell comedy clubs they can't open. Right. The mayor can tell you that you can't have your restaurant open. your mayor can tell you what what you can't do the mayor can tell you that schools can shut down the mayor of l a was trying to tell kids they couldn't fucking trick or treat and they were ready to like city hall on fire people went crazy so he went back on yeah but i mean how can you go back on something what are you basing it on right what are you basing your decision on i think they like to tell people what to do and i don't like it you don't think it's out of interest public interest like that to help

keep people healthy i think initially it was yeah but i think initially they thought we were going to lose a giant percentage of the population. I think they thought there's going to be a devastating disease. It's not nearly as bad. If you found out that COVID turned out to be as bad as it is now, if that was the projection that it was going to be probably twice as bad as a bad flu, and that it wasn't going to affect children hardly at all, very rarely affects children, and that what was really important is your health. Right. And that healthy people are going to kick it pretty easily, but older people and people who are poor health, particularly obese people, are going to struggle the most.

Wouldn't the concentration, wouldn't the focus be most on getting people to lose weight? Wouldn't it be on getting people to clean their health up, getting people to recognize the fact that obesity is one of the primary mortality causes. It's one of the comorbidity causes that when you talk to people in Manhattan that were working in the ICU, that was like the number one thing. It was all overweight. Right. Yeah. And older people. You don't hear any of that, though.

They don't tell you to do that. Yeah. Well, that's the long term solve for it, though, right? I mean, you got, well, yeah. It's seven months.

You can't lose weight in seven months. Not most people. Right? I mean, people have been carrying their weight around. You can lose your business.

You can, you can do that. You can literally tell people to shut down their business, but you can't tell them they have to lose weight. It seems to me, you'd be way better off telling people

how to get healthy and instilling healthy habits and people and showing them. This is the way. These are the things you need to do to ensure that you're, immune system is going to be better supported. It feels like that that part isn't really part of the conversation. It's not part of the conversation because they're not real leaders. Right.

They're just people that tell us what to do and what not to do. But who's saying that, but the guys in Austin aren't saying that, are they? No one's nobody's saying. But in Austin, they'll let you do whatever you want to do. Right. They're letting you open a bar as long as it sells food. Right. You let you open any restaurant. Right. Go to the movies. Jims are open. Right. Things are open. Do you feel like it's changed your head? Being here? Yeah. There's less people. It's better. Do you feel like, what do you feel like mentally? Calm.

Where are you at? It's more relaxed. It just seems like a better place to live. Like people are way friendlier. There is a frenzy that as I was trying to like figure it out because I was like, this is such a big movie. He's doing it quickly and am I missing something? Like, should I be packing my backs too?

Like really? Like I had it with you and I had it with my good friend Matt Damon. Like when we were in New York and he's like, and he was busting out and going to go to L.A. And I was just like, yeah, maybe should I be like, makes you think, because they're smart people, right? I respect both of you and you both have this idea of what to do. And I, when you were leaving, I was like, well, am I missing?

Like, what is it? And I would travel. I'm like, well, other places are shut down, but are we shut down more? What's happening? And then just recently I realized there's a sense of calm, a palpable sense of calm in other places, even in Portland. Portland was more mellow. Even with the riots?

Yeah, because the riots are on a couple blocks. The rest of this, really, the rest of this. The riot arena. It really is. It really was. It was like this one place where they could like have their photo ops and start some shit. But the rest of the, you know, we're just sitting at a taco truck with my daughter just on a beautiful day with really these other people from Portland. Yeah.

And there is a sense. It's literally, it's palpable. It's in the air that your L.A. feels more panicked. There are a lot of people in LA that never bothered to develop a real philosophy, a real perspective on life. They just linked into Hollywood and thought and acted the way they felt would get them successful. That's a great way to put it. And then when the shit hit the fan and all the foundation fell apart, they started screaming at people on Twitter. You're right. That's Alyssa Milano. That's that kind of person. That's the type of person where when the cameras are

are off and there's no one there's no work right you just seek attention in some other way yeah and that's what she's doing and that's what many people are doing they're just yelling at people online and then getting in these squabbles with each other yeah and then becoming like these air quote activists we need to defund the police and then the moment a fucking kid with a baby gun is next door shooting at squirrels she calls the cops is that did that really happen she was a defund the police person and she called the police when a kid with a baby gun was shooting at squirrels. Well, don't you find all the police. It's nonsense.

These people don't mean what they say. They're saying things they think will get them more attention and praise. They're saying things for likes. They've never developed a real philosophy. They never developed a real perspective. I had a friend that moved back to New York after being in L.A. and they said that it was because people know how to act like grownups in New York. They evolve, they move along, they act more mature, they do other.

And L.A., you don't see a lot of older people acting in a very good way. One thing you learn when you go into the suburbs. I've been living in the suburbs since 96. I abandoned the city very early. Because I, even though I was a young single guy, I was like, I want to live. where there's like animals. I want to live where I want to see coyotes. I want to hear quiet. I like to live where families live. I'm not a partier. Right. I do stand up and I, you know, I have a couple of drinks at the club, but I'm not having any parties. You know, like if I'm your

neighbor, you're happy. You're hearing shit out of me. Yeah. Chicken coop, some dogs. Maybe the dog will bark very rarely. Yeah. But I'm a, I'm a good neighbor. I'm a quiet person. I like being at home. I'm a homebody in a lot of ways. I like riding and watching TV or whatever. but I realized a long time ago that I wanted to be outside of the machine. And when I got to the suburbs, I realized there's a lot of people in the suburbs. I would think that they would be different. I was like, whether there's a Hollywood people who are like all industry people. Like, people who are outside of L.A.

need to understand that a giant percentage of what Hollywood is is the entertainment business. A huge. It's huge. Huge. I mean, it might be 50% of the entire city. Yeah. Connected in some way. Yeah. Either whether lawyers or accountants or agents or managers or whatever it is or actors and actresses and those are the crazy ones.

Yeah. Yeah. We're all the crazy way. We're all the crazy way. Right. But I thought I would go to the suburbs. I'd be around normal people. But I didn't find that. You know what I found? I found failed comedians. Failed actors. Failed rock stars. Right. And I was like, oh no.

I would meet these moms at school with my kid and, you know, we eventually get to talk in. And, you know, they would be telling me about their podcast. They came out here to be an actress and it didn't work out because it was blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, you're describing my neighborhood. I would panic when they would talk to me about their podcast. I'm like, oh, no, you want to be on mine. This is a fake conversation. I thought I was talking to a nice person.

Right. You're just trying to weasel your way into my ecosystem. Yeah. You grew up in Newark? Sort of. I kind of grew up everywhere. Right. The problem with me.

It's hard. It's slippery. Because I've known you for a long time and I can never keep it straight. I didn't really grow up anywhere, which is I never had a place where I belonged, which is good and bad. The good part about it is it forced me to form my own opinions on things. But the bad part is I was very insecure, like all the way into high school. I never had, there's no stability. I didn't have stable friends. I didn't have like a stable base. Why? I lived in New Jersey until I was seven. Then I lived in San Francisco from seven to 11.

Then I lived in Florida from 11 to 13. And then I lived in Boston from 13 to 24. And then I moved to New York. I lived in New York for three years. And then I moved to California. So I've been in California. So what was all the moving around when you were young? My parents split up when I was young. My mom met my stepdad and my mom and my stepdad moved us to San Francisco and he was a computer programmer who decided to go back to school to become an architect so he did that in San Francisco and then in Florida and then finished up at the Boston Architectural Center in Boston that led us to Boston and then eventually started his practice in Boston and that's where I went to high school that's where I started doing martial arts that's where I started doing stand-up comedy got it so when you were little did you have up until seven you have good memories or vivid memories of being in newark with the first family right i mean it was pretty young yeah did your father stay in the picture no no i haven't

spoken to him since oh really he's when they split it was not a good guy not a good guy really your stepfather was yeah very nice guy solid guy yeah because you're very solid like you just know how you think about your family and just your duty to your friends and there's like a you have a very solid base and that usually doesn't come from people whose families get split up. I had to learn that. Yeah. I had to learn that through camaraderie.

And some of it comes from martial arts because, you know, you act sort of as a team. You train together and you help each other. And the bond is very tight. Yeah. Like guys that I used to train and fight with, I'm still friends with some of them to this day. And it's like a very tight bond. Yeah. It's a very interesting relationship you have with those people.

You know, you, like comics, we understand each other in a way that other people are just not going to understand us. Yeah. We've both gone through the gauntlet. Right. You know, you and I have done the road. We've done the hell gigs. We've done the nice gigs. We've done the TV shows.

We've done the podcast. We done radio. We done the whole thing. Yeah. So we, when I, if I see someone like you and I, we're a part of a fraternity. Right. It's a rare camarader. I shouldn't say fraternity because that excludes women.

And it's a, there's camaraderie. There's a family thing to male, female, gay, straight. No one cares. Yeah, exactly. We are, it's a rare bond that we have with each other. Yeah. I learned a little bit of it from martial arts. And I just, I just, I figured it out.

Yeah, yeah. You have to be nice. Like, it's very important to love people. It's very important for you to love them, you to be happy with them. And then when they do well, and good things happen to them, you actually, you, you succeed. Like, you feel a feeling of accomplishment. Like, you feel their success.

It makes you feel good. Yeah. Actually, like, you're genuinely happy for other people. That's right. So powerful. It is powerful. It's, that thing, it kind of has to be learned. There's a lot of, there's a lot of bitterness and envy is a, is a, is a thing that kind

of, like, permeates a lot of people. And it kind of stops them. To poison. Stopps them from growing. I realized it early on as a comic that I was jealous of other. the comedians when they were doing well. And I wanted them to do bad. I didn't want them to do well.

I know. I had that too in the beginning. And then I realized I was, I could remember this. I was an open micer and I was kind of ashamed of myself because I wanted someone to bomb and they were doing well. And instead of just enjoying their act, all I was thinking of is I wish I was on stage killing. Like I don't like the fact that they're doing so well.

It was bothering me. I was like, what kind of weak, terrible thought process to that? and I was ashamed. I was ashamed. And I figured it out then. I was like, that's a terrible way to think. Like you got into comedy because you love comedy. So you should be happy that you're around these funny people.

And just like being around really good martial artists that will make you better. Really good comedians will also make you better. You'll rise up to the level of the competition. Right, right. But then when you, it's easier when you end up, you find your way. I did a little bit more in New York. and you're around people that you really respect. Yes.

Then it's like, it's hard in the beginning when you're just seeing people who you don't respect all of a sudden get success. When you see hacks, get ahead, that's troublesome. That's hard. That's hard to swallow. That takes a while. Hacks and thieves and just bad people. Yeah.

It's very troublesome. So when you look back at your childhood, do you have fond memories of family or do you feel like you guys were transient? I mean, your mom was the stable one, I guess, right? Yeah, I mean. Did you have grandparents around? Did you have any of that stuff? They were in New Jersey.

They were still in New Jersey. We would see them occasionally. Yeah. But until we moved to the East Coast, it was hard. Didn't see him very often. Yeah. Then when I moved to New York, I actually stayed with my grandfather when I couldn't afford an apartment when I was 24.

Oh, really? And I lived with him for like the first six months or so when I lived there until I saved up enough money. And I was scratching and trying to put kids. gigs together, get an apartment. Right, right. So do you feel like, do you have, like my family was New Jersey, this Italian family in New Jersey, and I feel that.

Like, I feel like we are like this Italian base, you know, that's our roots. Do you have that? Do you have like that heritage in your mind? That's a part of the problem with me. I don't have a root system, you know. Yeah. I mean, my root system is my current family. Right.

That's my real roots. You built it. Yeah. Yeah. But as far as like, I don't have like family in New Jersey that I go visit when I'm in town. It's not like that. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's, it is interesting because I always, knowing you're from New Jersey, knowing you're Italian, I always was like questioning the thing. It's like, but I knew there was like there was something not connecting you to it in the way. Yeah, that's it.

my parents splitting up and just moving out when I was real young, all that. Was it tough? Like, did you go through periods where, you know, you don't know what your emotions are at that age? Were you fighting? Were you lashing out as a little kid? Were you? I was real sad. I remember being real.

Didn't understand because they split up when I was five. I just didn't understand when my mom and dad didn't get along. But I did understand in some ways because I knew my dad. dad was really violent. And I saw it. I saw him hit my mom. Oh, really? Yeah,

and I remember it. And I remember hiding and being scared. I remember all those things. Whoa. That's heavy. Yeah. Do you, in a Shakespearean way,

did you feel like I might carry that rage in me? I might have? No, not towards beating my wife or anything. No, just like, you know. Never towards.

Like when Al Madrigal talks about, he's got Sicilian and Mexican in him, so he knows he's got to deal with his temper. Yeah. Like, you know, I see flashes of my father sometimes, you know. And then having someone who's negative, such a negative force, did that play on you at all? Or did you just be like that, you knew that guy's not me? I knew that guy's not me.

Yeah. And I also knew I would never be like that with my kids ever. I would never not be around them. I would never not have them in my life. I would never, you know, it's just I knew the pain of just basically being abandoned. Right. Yeah. It was really weird because he meant a lot to me when I was younger.

Of course. He was gone. And then he just didn't call. And I was like, this is crazy. And then I remember being like really upset by that for years. But then also knowing, even though I was upset and I was yeah, I knew it was a good thing that I was not around him. And my mother was worried that if I was around him, that I would become like him. She was really worried about that.

It's one of the reasons why she wanted to get me away from him. Right. One of the reasons why they wanted me to move with them to San Francisco because there was talk about me, staying with my dad. Oh, really? I'm lucky. Yeah. I'm lucky I went with my mom.

Yeah, thank God. Yeah, because then I went from living in New Jersey to living in San Francisco in the height of the Vietnam War. Jeez. All the hippies. Right. Yeah, it was all hippies and gay folk. Right.

My next door neighbors would get naked smoke pot and play the bongos. My aunt would go over there and hang out with them. There was just constantly around weird people. You know, it's also the first time I saw a man hit on my stepdad. I saw a guy hit on my stepdad and it was very confusing. And like a little, like a little spooky. Like, whoa, a guy wants to fuck my stepdad. Yeah, what's happening?

How old were you then? That was probably like 10. Yeah. Eight somewhere in that range. Right. I don't know. I never even heard of that before. It was crazy.

But it was like the world was different than the 70s in San Francisco. It was very. it was very, very open-minded. Yeah. That was one interesting thing. Like, I remember I asked my mom when we moved to Florida. I went to school in Florida, and I asked her what the N-word meant. She's like, you know what it means.

I'm like, I don't know what it means. That's what I'm asking you. Right. And then she told me it was a derogatory word for black people. And I was like, what? Like, I went from San Francisco, which was the most liberal, open-minded place on earth. And that was kind of like my developmental years. seven to 11 living there.

Sure. And then all of a sudden, I mean, the dumbest part of Florida. They were so dumb. People were so dumb. They were so dumb. I remember I had a friend who's Cuban and his dad was really mad that gay people were trying to get married. And he fucking threw the newspaper down.

And I was like, this is crazy. I remember thinking like, what do you give a fuck? And I was 11. 11 years old. 11. I was like, this is nuts. God. So it sounds like there's,

some stability there with the stepdad and your mom like yeah they're still together they're still together oh they are very happy yeah they work well together yeah but the good thing about all that is that instability created strength in me because of the instability I realized how to handle things right I developed composure and I developed an understanding of calm through chaos like I know how to stay calm right when shit goes wild right And because of that, I've sought out chaos because I excel at doing things that other people think are dangerous and scary. Right. So first it was fighting, then it was stand-up comedy and, you know, doing UFC commentary, podcasting live, even bow hunting and jujitsu.

All these things that I've gravitated towards are very difficult things that many people would shy away from because they make you, There's chaos. There's madness to a lot of them. Stand up is madness to it, right? The idea that you're going to make a living telling jokes? What jokes? Do you have these jokes already? No, I'm going to write them.

Do you know how to write jokes? I have no idea how to write jokes. What the fuck are you talking about? You need to go to school. You need to get a degree. Your children are going to want food eventually. I had an aversion, like a heavy-duty aversion to rigidity, to like a work schedule, to a job, to doing something I didn't want. I thought I was, I thought I was broken. I was like, there's something wrong with me.

I don't know how to work. Right. Like, I'm a loser. I just don't know how to work. But then I realized like, okay, I'm not a loser. Right. I just, I have to like something. Right. And then when I like I like something, then I don't, it's not like I have discipline. But what I do have is I have an obsession switch. And I can hit that obsession switch. And then I'm, all I think about is that thing all the time and I just want to be the best at it. Right. But I don't have discipline. I can't show up at a job that sucks and trudge my way through it. I don't have that. And I used to think it was bad, but then I realized, no, it's like a compass. It's guiding me towards the things that will be fulfilling to me.

Right. It took a while for me to figure that out. And I had a lot of low self-esteem because I really thought that I was undisciplined and then I had real problems. And a lot of people are like, you know, all these jobs. You're like, you're always working. You're like obsessed. But I'm like, I'm telling you, I'm the latest. easiest disciplined person you'll ever meet. I'm so lazy in a lot of things. Today's podcast is brought to you by our good friends at Helix Sleep.

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to realize like, no, maybe there's another path and I'm just going to, I'm going to trust in myself. enough. Fighting helped. Martial arts helped because all the sudden I realized through martial arts that I could get really good at something. And then I could get all this praise for being really good at something. And the only time in my life. And were you an athlete before that? No. You didn't do any sports as a kid. I played a little bit of baseball. I played a little bit of soccer. Right. But I was not, I didn't excel at anything. Wow. That's interesting. I got tired of being picked on because I was a short kid. Right. I wasn't very big. And kids would fuck with me. And I didn't like it. I didn't like the fact that it was

scary. Yeah. You know, and I didn't have any friends. You were the kid on the back of the comic book. Yeah. Well, not that bad because I was really strong. Yeah. I just didn't know how to fight.

I had, I had, physically, I was very fortunate that I had, like, when I started doing martial arts, one of the things I learned right away, it's like, I'm gifted physically. Like I have, I'm fast. I can hit really hard. Right. Unusually hard. Right. And I've picked that up really quick.

I was like, oh, this is something I actually can be good at. Right. And then I became obsessed with martial arts. arts, and then I started winning all these tournaments and championships and all these different things. How old are you now? From 15 to 21, all I did was martial arts. Wow. Every day. Right. The only time I would take days off if I was completely exhausted or I was injured. Right. I was obsessed. I started teaching. I was teaching at Boston University by the time I was 19. Whoa. Yeah. By the time I was 19, I was U.S. Open champion. Whoa.

I was a black belt by the time I was 17. I was. And started at 15. That's fast. Dude, I got good quirk. Yeah. It was just for me. Yeah. I had all this anger to work out. Did someone's, it was very explosive?

Did some Mr. Miyagi show you like you should come over here? Mr. Kim. Mr. Kim. I got lucky. I found this gym in Boston that was this amazing school that's still there to this day, the J-Hun Kim Taekwondo Institute. It was one of the best Taekwondo schools in the world. I just got incredibly lucky that I was coming home from a baseball game.

I was with a friend of mine. We went to Fenway Park, watched the game. And on the way home, you know, you take the tea. And there was a long line to get on the tea because everybody's coming home from the game. Yeah. And so we just said, let's go upstairs and see what this martial arts place is all about. Wow. And it's crazy because it's like a scene in a movie.

Yeah. I'm walking up the stairs. And as I'm walking up the stairs, there was a guy who would later become a mentor to me. And his name was John Lee. And John Lee was this really tall, super powerful. guy who was famous for this particular technique that I became famous for, this spinning back kick or turning sidekick. And he was practicing it on the bag. So as I was walking up the stairs, he was a national champion and he was training for the World Cup. And I was like halfway up the stairs.

And I heard this noise like, wump! And then the chain going, rattling. And it was him kicking this bag and like bending it in half and the bag would go flying against the chain it would snap and rattle and that was my first introduction to taekwondo is john lee in the height of his power doing this spinning back kick on this bag and watching this bag bend in half oh my god i'm 15 and i'm watched this guy do this and i'm i'm telling you he was as close to me as you are to me because there was a short railing. The way the school was set up was they wanted the heavy bags to be right by the door because that was the most impressive thing about taekwondo was the kicks.

So when people were practicing the bag was the best way to get people to sign up. And so John was practicing and I just happened to catch him literally at the peak of his athletic prowess at his town, the peak of his taekwondo career. And I just, I was transfixed. Michael Jordan. I just walked in on Michael Jordan shooting free three. Well, he was a very troubled guy, John. He, you know, he had, like, trouble with the law, and he came from a real bad neighborhood.

But he was a real character. Right. Super interesting guy, but he taught me a lot. He taught me a lot of things. Amazing. And I became obsessed with the, particularly with that technique because I saw him do it. Right. And that became my thing.

And I feel like if you, there's one video of me fighting online. Yeah. And it's me knocking a guy out with that technique. And he goes flying to the air. It's on YouTube. Oh, really? catch him in the body the same way John was catching that bag and sending it flying and I sent this dude flying.

Man, oh man. Yeah, I'll show it to you later. Yeah. It's crazy. That's so crazy. Is there a philosophy behind it? Oh, yeah. Is there like a...

For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's, um, it's very different. Like, you see trash talking in the UFC, all that stuff. There's none of that in Taekwendo. There's none. No, it's very much about respect.

Uh-huh. You know, the way you communicate with the instructor. Like, it was Mr. Kim or Mr. O'Malley was the other instructor. I would call the mister always and sir They said something to me It was yes sir Wow It was always

I was always bowing Yeah, it was always my uniform was on It was always perfect Everything you always bowed You never fucked around This is how serious I took it I had this girlfriend at the time When I was in high school

And she was really horny And I had the keys to the school Because I would go up there to train And she knew how dedicated I was So she would come I was like I have to work out Come with me Right

And so I worked out She wanted to fuck in the gym and I was like, I can't. Like, I can't do it. Right. This is like, sacred church. Right. I'm like, this is not happening.

Like, I have fucked that girl everywhere. I fucked her in the woods. Right. We were like little wild animals. Right. Exactly. We fucked everywhere we could get away. And I'm like, not here.

Uh-uh. Wow. And I wouldn't do it. And this is, you know, 17. And do they, do they impart that, that philosophy in a really tough way? Like, or? Sort of. But to me, it was.

inherent. It was natural. It was like that was my sanctuary. Like I'd recognize that this was something that finally I'd found something that I could really excel at. And this something was like building up my self-esteem. Isn't that amazing how like, and especially I'm probably, you're probably seeing it with your kids where you're watching them and you know they're talented, like you know they're special. You know they have potential. And as they're kind of finding their way, and when they do find something they like. Yeah. They change. They become like, yep, right? I mean, it's an interesting thing. Like, it is. And so many people never find it. So many people. That's the sad thing, right? Is some people, they never learn how, you know, you're talking about how some people just make

things happen. They know how to do, some people just, they always sit on the sidelines and go, maybe someday, when do I, what do I do? And they, I have a buddy of mine. I love him to death. But he's just, he's a sweetheart. Yeah. But he can't do it. Yeah. He, and he always asks for advice. He's always asking him. And, and, you know, it's like, I always feel like I'm a wolf and I'm talking to like a neutered poodle. He's just like, I don't know what happened to you in life, man, but you're, you don't have the engine. Yeah. There's, and I, it's obviously, you're physically capable of taking chances. Right. But there's a shift that your mind has to take. You have to, you have to go. you have to just you have to go right some people can't go they know they never take chances they're

always scared yeah it's a very strange thing it's it's it's it's weird because it's not i used to think that it was almost like well this is like positive thinking and this is like you're breaking through in some way that we don't even identify but i think it's just basic work i think it's like finding something that you love and just being motivated enough and wanting it bad enough that then you end up just executing it. It's positive habits too. It's getting accustomed to doing things like this. And this is one of the things that I was going to get into, like from learning how to do that with martial arts and learning that I could succeed. And he's really like martial arts is the scariest thing ever. To me, it's like fighting. Yeah. Like I watch all these people get knocked out. I knocked a lot of

people. Right. A lot of people. Yeah. It was crazy. It's a crazy thing to do as you're a teenager. Yeah. Growing up. Like my formative years from, you know, 15 to 21. all filled with violence. Right. Crazy violence. And that was just a giant part of my life, my day-to-day life. But it was nice that it, because every teenage boy kind of has that thing. Yeah.

And to be able to channel it to something. It calmed me down tremendously. But it also gave me tremendous confidence. Mm-hmm. It just, it changed me as a person. Right. You know, it was a funny story. One time I was, I went to get some lunch.

I left the school. And I was walking. or I was on the way to school. I forget what it was. But I was, I just got done eating and I was leaving and headed back to where the school was. And these three kids started fucking with me. And they were basically my size.

They were just dickheads. And they were saying, hey, man, you got any money? And I was like, yeah, I have money. And then it was like, well, you're going to give me some of your money. I go, I'm definitely not going to give you any of my money. and then we're talking and I'm like looking at them. I'm looking at if they got weapons and they were confused. He's like, why is this guy not nervous?

Yeah. And then I remember I got to the door and he goes, where do you think you're going? I go, I'm going to go teach my martial arts class. You want to come upstairs? And they look at the gym and they look at the sign. And they look at me. I go, you want to come upstairs? And they just walked away.

That was the craziest. That's the coolest. They fucked with me right. before I was going to teach class. I think I was probably 18. You all the props behind you? I mean, at the time I was already national,

or no, I won the national, I won the state championships at least one year. Wow. And I was probably, maybe it was two years in a row. I was probably on my second year,

but I fought a lot by then. Yeah. I was like, I will fuck all three of you up right now. But it was like, when they were like, you're going to give me some money. I'm like,

I'm definitely not giving me any of my money. Yeah. And they were so confused. They were like, what is happening? here you know and when i got to the door it was like again it was like a scene in a movie yeah i'm going to go upstairs and i'm going to teach my martial arts class do you want to come upstairs oh man there's a different level there's like that team sport thing like like that's you know

valuable and people can be super tough but i remember watching the wrestlers in my high school and was like they just had this quiet about them oh yeah they're tested yeah they're and all by themselves Oh, yeah. I wrestled in high school. I wrestled one year. Yeah. Yeah, but I couldn't do both. I couldn't do Taekwendoza and wrestle.

It was too hard. But I learned that from them. They're the hardest working fucking athletes I've ever experienced. Tough. I can't believe how sore I would be after wrestling practice, running up stadium of stairs and all the crazy drills that we had to do. Oh, my God. You wake up in the morning.

Oh, my God. I'm 15. I can't even move my body. So at what age does stand up appear? Well, one of my good friends, my dear friends this day, is my friend Steve Graham. And at the time, he was on the U.S. ski team and he was an ophthalmologist. At the time, he was living in Boston. And he was just learning taekwendo.

And we became friends. And he was just this guy, and still is this day, just this never say die guy who just will do anything. He didn't give a fuck. He was just a wild man. Always been a wild man. He was a flight surgeon in the Air Force, and he just had this crazy life. I mean, all these crazy scars up and down his knees from skiing, destroyed his knees skiing. Back when they used to sell you together with fucking fishing line.

Like terrible surgeries, right? But he never would just get everything fixed and keep going. Like never stopped. He came a black belt. And, I mean, he would fought in tournaments and stuff like that. But just a dude who's just admirable. in so many ways. His quality is a person.

His never got upset about things. No matter what happened to him. And he's like, well, shit happens. Never, never like, woe is me.

Right. Never complaining. Super positive attitude. Yeah. And we would all go to these tournaments. And when we go out, sorry, ladies and gentlemen for the noise.

I don't know what the fuck they're doing on the roof. Something's going on. Yeah, they're drilling. It's the government. This is every hotel room I stay. And by the way,

every single hotel is always that noise. He's renovating right upstairs. You're trying to sleep. Oh, 7 a. M. he was older than me at the time when I met him I was 15 and he was probably 30 and we just became friends you know from training together and he was like you know mentor and I I really looked up to him

like as a person yeah he was a really interesting guy and when I was doing taekwondo when we would go to fight tournaments together we would all be like really nervous man like we would go and everybody would be nervous. We'd be on a bus together going somewhere or traveling together or whatever. However we'd get there. We'd travel these tournaments all over the country. Like we would go to California, Ohio, New York, all these different places we'd go to. And everybody would be nervous and I would make jokes.

I'd be the guy who would crack everybody up. So we'd be all shit in the pants and I would do impressions of each other having sex. And I would make jokes about it. I was just trying to gallows humor. You're right. And Steve was like, we would. I'll be laughing. Steve is like,

you should be a comedian. And my thought was, you think I'm funny because you like me. Right. I go, but other people are just going to think I'm an asshole.

Because the kind of things I think are funny are all fucked up because my life is fucked up. Yeah. The things that I do all day are so alien to most people. All day I'm trying to kick people's heads off.

That's all. My number one focus was kicking someone in the head and knocking them unconscious. Right. How do I land kicks to people's faces? That's what I was thinking about. And how do I keep them from doing it to me? So that was all I thought about.

So when I would crack jokes, they were mean jokes. Vicious jokes. And we would all laugh like, ah, because they were all savages. These guys were all savages. Yeah, to make guys like that laugh, that's what you have to do. But that's how I relieved tension. It's also how I got attention because I made a lot of attention. So I was just the guy who cracked people up.

And two friends, Ed Schorter, my friend Ed Schroeder, who I lost touch with. He also did it. But Steve Graham, like, I remember him looking right at me and saying, you should be a comedian. Yeah. You're supposed to be a comedian. Wow, you're supposed to be. And I was like 19. Yeah.

I was like, come on, man. I'm not funny. Like, you think I'm funny. I'm fucking crazy. Like, this shit I'm saying is nuts. But when he said it, was there enough of a seed where it got you thinking? I mean, you're getting laughed. So you know that feat.

I knew how to make people laugh with fucked up shit, but I just didn't think it would ever translate into regular folks. And then, well, I was always a fan of stand-up. Right. Always a fan. Yeah. Like from the time, my parents took me to see live on the sunset strip when I was like 15 to the Richard Pryor movie. And I remember being in the theater, distinctly remember being in the theater and people were just dying and laughing all around me. And I remember looking around, go, this is crazy. This guy's just talking. Yeah. And everybody was like, you're all. whole body was moving like, oh my God, like holding on to each other. It was so funny. All that guy was doing was talking. And I'm never thinking, this is the craziest shit I've ever seen in my life. And I didn't know that that was possible. I'd never seen a concert film. Maybe it'd seen stand up on the Tonight Show, maybe like Bob Hope or something like that. I never seen that. I've never seen someone like Richard Pryor. And for an hour and a half. That certainly planted a seed in my head. That certainly was something that made me think. But, you know, when he told me you should be a comedian,

I remember thinking, okay, how does someone be a comedian? Like, I respected him. And like I said, I'm still very good friends with them to this day. I talked to him all the time. Yeah. And I started looking at open mic nights. I said, okay, let me find out where the open mic nights are. Right.

And so then I realized I couldn't go to an open mic night until I was 21. So I'd wait until I was 21. and then when I turned 21, I went to watch one. I went on stage August 27th, 1988. My birthday was August 11th. And 1988 is when I turned 21. Right. So August 11th was when I turned 21,

and then I started going to open mic nights. And I watched them. And I remember, Richard Jenny said this once, and it's brilliant. He said one good thing that terrible comedians do is they inspire people to try it. Because he's thinking, no matter how bad I am, I can't be bad of that guy.

If that guy can do it. It's so true. It is. That's how I felt because when I went to the comedy club, I was like, if I was comparing myself to Richard Pryor, I was like, never. I can't do that. It's not, it's too far. Right.

I can't, you know, if you're playing basketball and you're four and then you see Michael Jordan, you're like, what are you talking about? Right. How am I doing that? I can't do that. I got to quit now. Yeah. But I saw terrible comments over and over and over again doing five minutes.

And a light bulb went off of my head. I was like, I think I can do this. I think I can do this. So I waited a couple of weeks, and then on August 27th, that was the day that I first did it. And I remember almost chickening out. Jonathan Katz was actually the host of the open mic. Wow, that's great. From Dr. Katz.

Yeah, I love him. The animated show, great, great guy. Oh, my God. And a very, very good comedian. So funny. And he was the host. And I remember I signed up, but there was a question of whether or not I was going, this is at Stitch's Comedy Club in Boston. There's a question whether or not

I was going to be able to make it on the list Because there was a large number of people that signed up And he's like I'm probably going to be able to get you on But let me hold on a second And then in the between probably And maybe I'll get on The doubt started setting in

And I started chickening out And I was totally gonna back out of it I was like so nervous I couldn't believe how nervous I was And I had friends come to see me too Yeah And I was more nervous than even for a fight, I think.

Really? Yeah. And then I was going to go up to him and say, forget it. I don't need to do it. And then he comes up to me, goes, okay, we got a spot for you. And I said, okay, okay. And then I remember, I swear to God, I heard a voice in my head. And I've never heard a voice in my head before or since.

But when I was thinking about checking out, I heard a voice in my head that said, no, this is what you're supposed to do. Really? I mean, it was like a person talking. Really? It was like I was about to make a terrible mistake. And I was about to chicken out and run out of there. Yeah.

What do you think it was? You never heard one before or since. No, I was about to make a terrible error. Was it a guide? Do you think or was your subconscious? Most likely my subconscious. Yeah. But whatever it was,

it's like there's a part of me that knew, don't be a coward. Just go do it. And I was super nervous. And I went up and I got a couple laughs. It wasn't good by any stretch to the imagination. But I got a couple of laughs. Yeah. And I remember getting offstage and immediately saying, this is what I'm going to do.

Right. Because I knew, I'm like, I got a couple laughs. Yeah. And I could see the territory. Right. I could see. I was like, okay, there's a lot of work to be done. Yeah.

But I go, this is something I can do. And then I met these comics, these professional comics, and I was like, I like these guys. Like, these are my kind of people. They're over there laughing, yucking it up. And then I realized they have this life where they just, they do whatever they want during the day. And they go up at night and they tell jokes and they get paid. And I remember thinking, whoa, that's their job. Yeah.

I used to listen to Howard Stern when I had a day job. And I remember driving and listening to Sam Kinnison hanging with Howard and they're just talking. and I'm like it's like nine o'clock in the morning and they're not going to work. They sound like they're in the middle of a party. Yeah. I was like, what do you have to do in life to not be on your way to work right now?

Exactly. Exactly. You know how I found out about Kinnison? I was working as a trainer at the Boston Athletic Club. I was 19 years old. And there was this girl that I was good friends with who was, she was like a volleyball player.

She was fucking jack. stout girl. So it made this even funnier. And she was like, oh my God, I saw the funniest fucking comedian last line on HBO. And she's telling me about Kinnison. I go, yeah? I go, what was it like? And so she's telling me about this routine that Kinnison did about homosexual necrophiliacs paying money to spend a few hours undisturbed with the freshest male corpses. So she's telling me this. The young comedian. She lies down on the parking lot, on the ground in the parking lot and she's like he's like you're like well I'm gonna be here she's doing the bitch she's like I'm gonna be with Jesus she was oh wait what is this it feels like

there's a dick in my ass no life keeps fucking the ass even after you're dead it never ends it never ends oh oh I'm crying laughing and my friend doing an impression of kinnison yeah that's how I found out about kinnison amazing I was like whoa and so I I went and I believe I got a VHS tape. I don't remember how long after that until I finally got it. And I watched Kinnison. And I watched his HBO special. I was like, holy shit.

Powerful. And that's what made me really think that maybe I could do comedy. Because even though my friend Steve had told me that I could do comedy, this is when I was 19. Yeah. I was like, I'm crazy. Like I'm a violent, crazy person. Yeah. But then I saw him and I was like, oh, that's comedy too.

Right. Oh, this screaming guy. Yeah. Talking about getting fucked in the ass while he's dead. That's comedy? Right. I have to say, and this is a compliment to you, when I was watching the comedy store documentary, which is just coming out. And I always get this with actors.

I'm like, oh, so Matthew McConaughey is our Paul Newman. Like you can always, you can see some, sometimes you can do the math and see like there's certain types of artists, you know, that kind of match up. And I was like at the comedy store, you were, you were the Kinnison. You were the Kinnison because it wasn't just, it was, it was a, it was, it was, it wasn't just jokes. It wasn't just being really funny. But there was an energy.

There is, he brought this primal energy to the stage. and you have that. You have that thing. When you go on stage, you're, you're, you're, you're, that you can tell the fighter, all that stuff kind of comes through because you're, you're on the stage prowling the same way he was. And it felt a little dangerous and it felt a little like, what's he going to say? What's going to happen? You trusted him. There was a kindness to him, but there's also a danger to, to the act. And you, you, you embody that. That's a big compliment. It is a huge compliment because he's one of the great, one of the. The Giants. One of the all-time greats. Yeah. He's on the Mount Rushmore for me. Yeah, me too. Me too.

It's like prior him, Lenny Bruce has to be there. Then the other ones are debatable. Yeah. Yeah. I think Mount Rushmore doesn't have enough heads. I know. For Mount Rushmore, comedy? I know.

There's too many. Like, you'd have to put Chris Rock in there somewhere. You have to put Chappelle. I think you have to put Louis in there. Yeah. I really do. I think there's too many guys you have to put in there. The list is so long.

And then if you go even deeper. Everybody has their own. personal Mount Rushmore as well. Yeah. You know? And then you go deeper into like the old time guys. I mean, it just keeps on going. I think Joan Rivers has to be on there too. And you know who else I think? I think Roseanne Barr has to be on there. Rosam Barr is one of the most important figures in all stand-up comedy to me. Because she was a, in my era, she was the first woman who came out and killed like a man.

Like crushed. Like a man. Right. I mean, like a fucking savage. You know, didn't give a fuck. And she would say, nah. And it was so impactful. What she could say in one sentence was like what other comedians would say in five. Yeah, she was a dynamo, like a real dynamo. And like Kinnison, also a victim of brain damage. Yeah.

Both of them have been hit by cars when they were young. Right. And both of them suffered severe brain injury. And that's one of the things that led to them being so radical and impulsive. You ever read Brother Sam by Bill? Kinnison? No. Bill, I'm going to have him on the podcast. Oh, yeah? He reached out. Oh, that's great.

He heard me talk about the book. Yeah. His brother Bill said that Sam was one way. He was like a normal kid. And then he got hit by a car and really fucked up. Right. And then from then on, wild man. Wow. Couldn't be controlled.

Just wild man. Just reckless, crazy, insane. Just a fucking weird twinkle in his eye where you knew he was gone. And it's the same with Roseanne. Yeah. Losanne got hit by a car. Couldn't do math afterwards. Spent nine months in a mental institution.

I know. Yeah. It's insane. And then they find their way to comedy. It's like they can make it work in comedy. It's so crazy. It's jet fuel. Yeah.

It's like they're on steroids for comedy. You, you, uh, so you had this kind of thing where you, you show up it in martial arts and you take it down. And then you show up in comedy and show business and you find your way and take it down. and now the podcast. And now you have this huge deal, you know, the Spotify turn of like, this is like unheard of.

And it's, you know, you can carry around stories of like other comics that went through big profound things and became huge stars and all that kind of stuff. But it's got to be kind of strange to be like in this podcast world that's pretty new, you're one of the guys that's,

breaks through in the biggest way. and the money's got to be part of it, the exposure's got to be part of it, the cultural attention has got to be part of it. Do you feel like it's something you mentally have to adjust to, or is it kind of natural? Because it seems pretty heady. It's heady. You got to adjust to the pressure. It's also like it was so much press about the deal. I mean, it was, I don't know how many articles were written about it, but it was bananas. Huge. And it was like in financial journals and, you know, Forbes and shit.

They were writing about it. And it just, it was a different thing. It was like all of a sudden, this little secret that I had where I was getting 200 plus million downloads a month. Right. And now, but it was like, like, the record skip. What? It was one of those things.

Yeah. They gave him how much money? Right. And then how do you, how do you be that same? guy, right? Because, like, I got famous podcasting by, I mean, it's not that I don't give a fuck. I definitely care. Yeah. But the way I give a fuck is very different than the way a lot of people give a fuck. Right. Like, I'll say things. I'll take chances. I'm not, I'm not averse to risk. Right. And you, when you get wealthy, one of the first things that happens with comedians is they

stop taking risks. They start shutting down. They stop taking chances. And when you do that, it all falls apart. Because what got you to the dance is like that fucking high horsepower V8. Right. It makes a lot of noise and annoys the neighbors. It peels those tires out, but that's why people showed up.

Right. But then all of a sudden, you become successful when you take that bitch out for like a Prius engine and you put thick mufflers on it so you dead and all the sound and you can't do that. You can't do that. So it has to be the same. So there's been some problems like I'm sure you've read the articles about Spotify employees getting upset at certain content and some of the podcast because these woke kids today. Yeah. You don't want, it's like they want to silence other people's ideas. They don't want competing ideas with the ones they currently hold. Right. Or even discussing the ideas. But in Spotify's favor, what I will say is they have not said a single word about it to me.

Amazing. They don't give a fuck. The guy who runs Spotify, the CEO is amazing. I had dinner with him. He's a great guy. He's an MMA fan. He's a fan of the podcast. He likes it wild.

Yeah. He likes what it is. Yeah. And he wants me to do what I'm doing. And they're letting me do what I do. And the first podcast we turned in was a five-hour drunken stoned rambling session with me and Duncan Trussell. that was the first one they got oh really yeah god i love duncan i love i love him so much he's the best man

he's a he's a rare human he really is he really is man i told him i and i've only really met him this year really uh-huh we just never cross paths and and uh i knew how how how good friends you two are and i was like duncan we're going to be really great friends he's like i know i know man man man we totally are. I thought the same thing. I became friends with him when he was answering the phones. Oh, really? Yeah, he was the guy you would leave your avails with. I would call up and I would say, hey man, I'm going to be here Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. And we would just start talking on the phone. I mean, I knew him from the club itself. But then, you know, he and I would have these crazy conversations in the phone. And then we became friends at the club. And then he started him on the road with me a little bit. And then he lived with me for a little while.

Oh, really? Yeah, you got kicked out. out. He was dating a girl. She kicked him out of their apartment. And he was like, hey man, I'm at a hotel. I got kicked out. He'll go, come live with me. I had a house. So he lived with me for like six months and used my isolation tank and got his head together. That's so great. I love that that's the first podcast that they get. I mean, because the one thing, and I've said this to you before, that was so great about your success was that you're able to call your own shots. There was no in an era where a lot of people have to apologize because they're being hired by somebody else, you are able to just do whatever you want to do. And you do it in the right way. There's a lot of

moral character to you. You think you're thoughtful. You think things out. As much as you can be rock and roll and just spit things out, there's a center of righteousness and that they are act, see that in you and are allowing that to happen is great because you wouldn't want anybody to mess with that freedom that you had. Yeah, you wouldn't, it would be a spectacular failure and it would be what all the haters would hope for. Right. The haters would hope you get this big check and then you just sell out. Yeah. But I don't think I've changed anything. I really don't. I mean, the way I do a podcast is exactly the same. A hundred percent. I just do it. I mean, yeah, I mean, doing this and we just did yours and just

you know, I mean, look, there's been... Yeah. Talked about you choking down Gavin Newsom sperm. I wouldn't say we did. You were with me. You were going, keep going. Keep going. I like it.

Well, I see a funny run. There's a run. There's a run. There's a run. No, but I mean, and I'm sure you've been through it too, where you've been around comedians who, who pop and get really famous. and they do change. They fall apart.

They fall apart. They become different people. It's not being funny. Yeah. I mean, do you think part of it is because it's been like this slow build? Like it's been, it wasn't a... I've had a real slow build. I've had a like a slow drip of success from news radio.

I mean, I wouldn't say slow because the news radio thing for my life was enormous. Yeah. All of a sudden be on a sitcom like that. Yeah. But the slow drip of to where I am. now. It's like it prepared me in the right way. Where I know who I am. Like I'm not anything special.

I'm just, I'm on a journey and I'm, you know, X amount of steps. Right. Past maybe a guy who started 10 years ago. Right. But we're all on the same. And I go way out of my way to treat comedians that way. Right. Like I treat comedians like there, we're all the same.

Whether you're a doorman at the comedy store, whether you're answering the phones, you are a part of this brother and sisterhood. That's right. I'm with you. Yeah, right. And I know one day we'll work together. And, you know,

and I want you to, I want you to understand that you're good and you just have to keep working and you can do it. Right. And we're all the same. Right. We all have different weirdness and different paths. Sure. But we're all the same.

Right. Exactly. Yeah. It's a, you realize the longer you're in it, I think, how, like in the beginning, you're turned on by it and they, I want to hang out with these guys. and this is fun. But it's actually at this point

when you actually see how truly special this life to be able to kind of share and this is. And you want to encourage other people to join in. Yeah. That's why I want to encourage

people to the podcast too. Yeah. I always tell people. I tell people all the time to the point where it became like a running meme but people would say Joe, they would say Joe,

you should do a podcast, Rogan. I always tell people. Right. I'm always telling people. Yeah. It's a great way if you can do it Like, no one can stop you.

If you could just do it an hour twice a week, you'll develop a following. Right. And then you have a radio show. You have your own thing and no one can stop you. Yeah. And that's what I did. I mean, 11 years ago, I started doing it once a week. Wow, 11 years ago.

Answering you stream like questions. Wow. People would tweet questions at us. We would talk shit. Right. Just smoking pot and having fun and being ridiculous. And there's a funny part of the Comedy Store documentary where Tom Segura, who was one of the earliest people that was on my podcast.

Yeah. he was after the podcast, he was talking about it on the Comedy Store documentary that he would look at it. He was like, how many people were watching this? And there was like 2,000 views. Like, why is he doing this? And Brian Redband was like, I don't know. He just, he just wants to do this. He thinks it's going to be big.

And he goes, it's fucking stupid. It's useless. And he thought it was preposterous. Yeah. And a lot of them did. A lot of them did. They're like, why are you doing this? Even my manager or my agent.

They were all like, what are you doing? Yeah. I remember literally saying at one point, no, I don't do podcasts. Just as a guest. I was like, well, everybody mocked him. You know, Howard Stern used to mock them. Yeah. Money in it.

Everybody had this idea. But all I have ever done was follow my interest. Yeah. Like, what is it that I'm interested in? Like, there's no money in bow hunting either, but I'm obsessed with bow hunting. Right. You know? I follow my interests.

Yeah. And if I can find a thing that I'm interested in, I can follow that thing. Right. That'll lead to happiness. No, that's, that was, I mean, I talked to you before I started doing this podcast. You know, I had one for a while, but then when like was shifting gears to this, it was like, that was your one thing. It was like, just follow your passion and, and do what you turns you on.

And I have to say, after doing the other version, which was fine. But it, like, I just so enjoy this now. Like, it's so because there's no like, oh, I've got to do another. thing. It's like, ah, this is exciting. And it's so cliche. Yeah, I know. I know. It really is. It's like with every life coach would tell you, follow your passion, Tom, no. I can't be I've paid

this asshole money. That's their advice? Follow my passion. Duh. What else? Work hard. Is that your next piece of advice? Right, exactly. Fucking asshole. That's so funny.

But in a big way, you're responsible for taking one of my passions, which was baking bread. and when we talked about it on your podcast, it just exploded. And you called me the Sultan of Sourdough. And it just caught on. And, I mean, it led to this whole path, this whole thing. Bread is my bow hunting.

And it just opened up this whole thing. It was just so great. It was really great. Interests, whatever it is, making bread, pottery, painting. Just having an interest is so important. Yeah. Like having something that excites you. Right.

that you're passionate about, you enjoy doing. And the thing about bread making is you also get a chance to see other people enjoy it. They eat it. A hundred percent. And then they call you like, dude, I sent you pictures. Yeah. I post them on my Instagram. I'm like, look at this bread.

I know. And to be able to marry my bread with your elk is pretty great. Yes. I mean, you can take this thing and you go out and you hunt this 700-pound animal. And then eventually I have my bread with this elk of yours. Yeah. It's pretty damn good. That's one of the things I really enjoy about bow hunting is bringing meat to people.

I really enjoy it. Like last time of Whitney and Annie Letterman did my podcast, I gave them big coolers full of elk meat. Oh, you did? Yeah, and they took pictures, sent me pictures of them eating in it. That's awesome. I love it. Michael Yo, I gave him a bunch. I gave some to a lot of people.

I'm so many people I gave meat to. Yeah, there's something deep to that. There's something, I mean, there's definitely, I mean, there's definitely, I mean, I was telling you that I've been traveling around during the pandemic, passing my bread out to people. And there's something special about it. Yeah. There's something. Sharing something that they're going to eat.

Yes. Is deep. Yes. It's really deep. It is. How many more trips do you have coming up this year? Hunting? Yeah.

I have one more next week. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And then because I'm in Texas, I can hunt wild pigs, basically any, time. Yeah. And so once we set up at a ranch, which we're going to do out here, we're going to set up a podcast studio on a ranch.

That's the next step. That's stage three. Yeah. And stage three or stage four? Stage two. I don't know. Whatever. I think we're in two.

We're headed to two, which is a ranch. Right. I want to hunt some wild pigs. And then we're going to have like a whole hog barbecue. Oh, man. You'll do it over a spit, like the whole deal. I'm going to bring a barbecue cook to do it correctly. And then we'll have like a whole hog.

a big party to celebrate the opening of the new studio. Oh my God, that's going to be amazing. Yeah, I'm excited about that. That's amazing. Because there's so many pigs out here, this is like Texas is kind of infested with wild pigs. So you can hunt them like all year round 24-7. Have you seen any since you've been here?

I have not. There's a lot of deer though. Right. There's deer everywhere out here. Wow. That's amazing. Man, I have to say, Joe, I am so grateful that we've become pals when I first even poked around in L.A. I didn't know you in New York. And when I poked around in L.A. and like first get there and

you go check out the clubs and it was like, I went to the improv and then I ran over to the comedy store and you just came in. I forget what car you had. It was something big and loud. And it was just like, bha-b-la-ha-ha. And this came up and you had your spot at the comedy store. And you like came in and you were just like, you had a drive and a motivation that other comics usually kind of saunter in, you know, kind of slowly and just kind of like not really kind of semi-focused. And there was just a drive that you had just into the parking lot

and then getting up on stage and then pounding out your set and it was like, this guy's doing stuff. This guy's motivated and, and impressive. And that all these years later, we've become pals is,

it's just great. It's like one of those things and you've had, I'm sure, when you see people in the comedy community, and you're like, I like that one. And then eventually they get to become part of your inner, circle it's like I don't know it's special it's a good thing well I remember when I first started I felt

inadequate and I didn't feel like any of those people would ever be my friend yeah right yeah real professionals yeah I'm like I'll never be friends with a real professional and then eventually you become a real professional yeah you know I've always tried to extend friendship to as many people as I can yeah yeah I think um it's one of the best things about comedies that I get to do it with other comedians. Yeah, yeah. No, right. That's a great way to put it. Awesome. Well, thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. I love you. And I love when you do my podcast too. Yeah. I love hanging out with you. I'm glad you got to be here in Texas. I'll meet you at the pig roast. Yes. All right. Thanks, man. All right. Thanks, buddy.