Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 230 - Moon Unit Zappa

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

Moon Unit Zappa drops by Breaking Bread to share her new book “Earth to Moon” where she writes about growing up with Frank Zappa as her father. Tom and Moon talk about veganism, Frank Zappa’s crazy fanbase, Moon's relationship with Marc Maron, classic LA Italian haunts, and Egyptologist Dr. Colleen Darnell. In her book, Moon shares stories of growing up in an unconventional household in 1970s Los Angeles, coming of age as part of the MTV generation in the 1980s as the “Valley Girl,” and finding herself after losing her father, then her mother, and the dismantling of her longest relationships. Tom and Moon talk about veganism, Frank Zappa’s crazy fanbase, Moon's relationship with Marc Maron, classic LA Italian haunts, and Egyptologist Dr. Colleen Darnell.  For FREE breakfast for life go to HelloFresh.com/freepapa. One free breakfast item per box while subscription is active. That’s free breakfast FOR LIFE, just by going to HelloFresh.com/freepapa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Papa. One free breakfast item per box while subscription is active. That's free breakfast for life just by going to Hellofresh.com slash free Papa. HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit. And you break me out of jail. Free Papa. Thank you so much for being here. I'm thrilled to be here. I would like to, we like to start off with a toast here in our trattoria. Congratulations. I started your book. And I started doing like the jumps, like the YouTube jumps. Congratulations on diving into a huge subject, which is your life.

But you have a really nice way of presenting it. And there's a nice sense of humor and sweetness. And congratulations. That's not an easy thing to do. Thank you so much. Thank you. Cheers. Cheers.

What made you decide to write that book now? Well, growing up, obviously I got asked a lot. What was it like growing up with Frank Zappa for a father? Yeah. And then just somebody's, just their face, just thinking what it could possibly be like and imagining the very best of circumstances. Yeah. And I always felt like it was Gail's story to tell.

Uh-huh. And for those of you don't know, my parents were Frank and Gail, and they, introduced themselves to all of us as Frankengale and did not want to be called mom and dad. And that was a good move because they were some of the least nurturing people I've ever met. But in terms of writing the story, if I had written it before Gail had passed away, I would have just written something about the fun times at the Zappa compound. And they would have just been like lighthearted essays or something. But after she died, she threw such a...

a curveball by pulling a Sophie's choice and just actively choosing two children to wish well eternally and leave two out that I had to I had to just stop and reevaluate what is family what was what is trust what is loyalty what is what was that time I spent we you know we all sacrifice so much for my father's career and his dream yeah my friend calls it Pharaoh syndrome where all arrows point to the top of the pyramid. Right. And so in my mind, growing up watching the Three Musketeers and whatever, the Brady bunch, you know, they're like, they all hang in there together.

Yeah. I was thrown. Right. I was really thrown. Right. And so I just, to save my own life and to just, I had to just write and say, this, what, huh? Yeah.

And I just, I then, of course, looking back, I thought, oh, yeah, this. was hiding in plain sight. Of course, there was estrangement in my father's family and Gail's family. And I just didn't think it would happen to me. You mean estrangement? They didn't talk to their siblings, a lot of their siblings. And they cut people out regularly. And I just, it didn't occur to me that you could do that to anyone at any time. Yeah. And so now when I meet people, I don't feel safer and safer the longer I know them. I'm just like, well, it's just more information for them to destroy me with. So your mom, what do you mean, she did it in what way?

In what way, what way? The Sobi's choice. Oh, well, she, she left all of the intellectual property to my two younger siblings that I helped raise. Oh. Yeah. Oh, man, man, oh, shevitz. Yeah, yeah. And then they, and then they didn't go, that's a horrible idea.

They were like, this sounds great. So I was I was thrown by that too. It is such a weird thing at every level. The Zappa estate down to people I just know in my old hometown who've got nothing but an apartment and one car. When that goes down, people, this weird greediness thing comes out of people that it's astounding to me. Like that attitude of, that seems like the knee-jerk reaction would be like, well, that's not cool. It's all that, let's talk about this and figure this out. It doesn't happen to most people.

Right. If it happened to me and Gail, it said, make sure they get nothing. I would be like, you absolutely, absolutely. I will, I will defend your honor. And then she would have died and would be like, well, we're not doing that because she's not here. You just don't, you don't do the thing the mean person wants. Right. That's weird.

Yeah. Yeah. So. Was she mean growing up? Oh, yeah. She was always mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But here's the thing, too.

My siblings and I, we all got, I thought, the same ingredients in the pot, but we didn't. And so, in some ways, their reactions, I can, it's taken a long time, but I can, I can understand their positions. Right. I just, we just don't see it the same way. Right. So, but, but. Did they have different, did they have a different gale? Because they were younger.

Yeah, because it was a patriarchy. inside of the culture of a patriarchy. And so it was always easier for Gail to deal with my brothers. And my sister was the baby. Right. So the babies get all the... The baby's the baby. The baby's the baby.

Yeah. But the thing is, like, I wanted to put a, like a sample, like a template will in my memoir. And I got called a probated term. Like, what's the thing I can say? Like, in any situation, this is the thing you first refer to. And I found out that in... different states, it's different laws.

There's not like one cohesive document. On the East Coast, it's English law. And some states in the Florida area, it's French law, Louisiana. And then it's Spanish law here. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so I thought that was really fascinating. But basically share everything. Just as a simple thing.

Just split it. The bands that stay together have equal publishing. Yeah. God, that is such a weird thing to be, what a spiteful move to just be just that. Like, we're not just sharing. Like, I'm going to make a statement with these things. Yeah, and I think the thing, too, is that when it wasn't, obviously, it's not the stuff. Yeah.

That stuff is, is, is its own beast. But it's the idea that somebody doesn't wish you well eternally and that that's their final word. They're like, in summation. Yeah. Here's my final word. And so you have to get bigger than death and bigger than the final word and make sense of that for yourself and shrink, shrink them down. Otherwise, you just go crazy. Yeah.

Because it's such a, because they would have done that. Like, she would have done that, right? If she left all those people in her life and, like, it wouldn't be a big deal for her to just completely be like, oh, well, that's just them and cut it out. But if you have empathy and you're operating like a kind heart of human being, it's a little more difficult to do. Yes. I do think there should be a dating site where they just show brain scans if you're missing frontal lobe because empathy is the key to everything. I find it so weird things that just are so obvious to me as a loving, giving human being. Right.

And just other people just can compartmentalize and just ice it out. And it's just. Is that what it is? You think it's just a brain makeup? up like what? I mean, nurture nature. I don't know. Yeah, right.

I don't know. But they're that way ultimately. Yeah. Yeah, that is a. Rejecting the rejector always feels like the booby prize. It's just, it's such a weird. Yeah. I'm looking forward to what I'm like, I'm a miracle because I'm just, no thank you to

that thing. Uh-huh. But. Oh, it's so complicated. Yeah. When it's, yeah. I mean, we have, we have similar story. in my world.

But and watching it. Tell me everything. Yeah. Enough about me. Tell me about your darkness. Yeah. It's, it's my wife's mother.

And there is a, you have, like, you watch it from the outside. I'm not in that relationship, right? So you watch the meanness or whatever goes on, but it's so complicated

because there's, it's your mom. It's her mom. And, you know, as a defender, you want to be like, well, screw that.

I can't believe she said that, but you can't because it's still your mom. It's a tough thing to separate it out. I had a friend who put her mom out of her life early on, like as a teenager. And I just thought, wow, I could not live with the consequences. I saw many therapists and I would go and I'd say, this happened and this happened. And invariably, they'd say, run for your life. And I would say, oh, no, I must be telling it wrong. Let me tell it differently.

I'm trying to figure out how I can create harmony. And they're like, you can't opposite this personality type. I'm like, yeah, I'm probably just, I made myself sound amazing. No, I, I'm sure I was at fault. What can I change in me? And I turned into every kind of pretzel that you could turn into. And the pros were like, no get run. Interesting.

Oh, yeah. Well, my wife is in your shoes. She's not, she's going to love this book then. Yeah, she is going to love this book. It's so crazed. I was saying to my daughter, who's over there, when I was going through your book and reading it and just knowing you throughout.

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When I hear the word genius, I'm like, what got cold? What was lost? Who sacrificed something for that dream to happen? Somebody was doing all the dishes and all the driving and all the paperwork. Right. Yeah. Man, I know. Now, do you think that he, he, that wasn't a choice or was it a choice? I mean, that's the mystery. Yeah. That's, that's the mystery. Yeah. Because you're like, if you're that smart, can't you notice that the people sitting next to you are not smiling as much as you are? That's weird. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I write about how he would make himself a can of hormal chili and not say anyone else hungry around here.

Not that I would have said yes to the Hormel, but still. Yeah. It would have been nice to have been offered it and then say politely, no thank you. Right. But it's just a, yeah. Yeah, that is a weird thing. One time we were on a flight and so much turbulence and I'm, I was like, I'm scared. Yeah.

And my father said, just don't think about it and put a blanket over his head. How about a hand to hold? I don't know. Yeah. I'm not the genius around here, but it feels like a hand to hold would be the next logical thing to do. Yeah. So, so that's probably the way it goes the whole run, right? Like, did you, were you, when were you cognizant of that kind of? Like, because you're as a kid, you're just, this is just the way it goes. This is just normal. Was it seeing other people's homes?

Definitely seeing other people's homes, obviously seeing media, 16 candles. I was like, wait, dad's talk to daughters, wait, wait, what's happening? They say sorry, wait, what's going on? Yeah, yeah. And yeah, certainly, even going to people's homes and they sat for dinner together, I couldn't believe it. Really? Yeah. Right. See, in my normal house, that version of normal, there is a part of me as someone in the arts that thing of normal, there is a part of me as someone in the arts that thinks like, because I'll go to some friends homes and like they don't have a family.

and their house is a podcast studio and there's shit on the stairs and there's like strangers wandering around and it's and I'm like wow maybe this is what it takes maybe your whole life even your house even dinnertime it has to be obliterated like are they doing it right

because they've got all of this it's just purely about the career I don't have that but there seems to be a a fun element to living that way. For the person who's doing it and not doing all the heavy lifting. Yeah, of course.

Was it fun for you as a kid like just being like you're in this playground kind of a thing or you're even at that age? Well, I mean, we were certainly the go-to house. Our house, there was a always under construction. Gail grew up in a military family and my dad also moved around a lot.

And so even though they planted roots in this house, it was always under construction. A wall would be moved one week, and then something else would happen. We had people working Monday through Saturday. In the end, there was a guy named Antonio that we called Slave Toneo, and he'd even come on Sundays to feed the animals.

And so it was definitely, and of course, kids could come to the house and curse, and get, my dad would walk through the house, the middle of nine of a slumber party completely naked. I'd be like, oh, my God. So, but yeah, that's, that's, that's, as the, as the kid, you're just like, eh. Yeah. But did you feel like there's a little popular part to you, like, all the kids like coming over? Or was it always cringe?

No, it created a, yeah, I just, I just felt like an outsider. I just felt, I didn't, it didn't feel, my references were not the same. Right. My peers. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. How much of it is, I mean, this is all unknowable, but I'd just ask it because it's on my mind,

like walking through the house naked when there's anybody around is such a bizarre thing to do. How much of it is conscious and how much of it is just, like, was he trying to be different? No way. No. No. From outer space. No, I just think he just was not, he was thinking about himself and thinking about his. Right.

I mean, I wish I had more of that. Yeah. I'm missing. I'm sadly missing. Sometimes I fantasize about, well, number one, boredom would be amazing. Just boredom to me was a luxury. And when you grow up kind of battling chaos, you don't get to develop your imagination because you're just, you're in survival mode.

Right. And so the luxury of boredom of daydreaming of having that, that, yeah, that just not feeling like somebody's going to come and I don't know, just make candles in the mood near your playthings or something. You want to just feel like the world's going to remain solid.

Man, but there seems from the outside like this sweetness to him. Oh, he was incredibly sweet. Never raised his voice. Right. Never. I mean, never raise his voice. He got angry, but he did not raise his voice. Right. And so that was incredibly,

that was amazing. Right. And I definitely, fully inherited Gail's yelling. Because we just, we just didn't learn proper communication style. I mean, I think it's Ram Dassis,

we were all walking each other home, but we're also all growing each other up. And we, no one knows how to do this. And, and communication is, it's, it's difficult,

making, making room for other people's ideas, having respectful conversations. It's, it, it's, it's, it's been modeled a few times in some presidents and not in others.

Mm-hmm. on the bigger stage. Yeah. And if you don't see it in your family or, you know, a teacher or a hero even. Right. You want to see these kinds of things. Like see those examples. Yeah, because if you don't have an imagination to conceptualize these things,

then you don't experience it firsthand, you don't even get to know about it. It's interesting. It's because when you would see somewhat like a presidential figure like Obama with his family and it was just such a normal kind of like, oh, they're in love. They're taking you out those kids first, like, that seems so. And then people would be freaking out just like hating. And it was like, that's probably what it is, probably a lot. I mean, well, there's race and all that stuff, but just at its core,

there's people that didn't understand that looking at that was something to aspire. I mean, I cannot watch an awards show or anyone who thinks a spouse or. partner or a family member or some kind of form of support. I literally, I'm like, like I have to flip a table. I'm just so envious that not only to have support, but to have consistent, steady support. Right. What? Yeah.

I mean, this is just, this is science fiction as far as I'm concerned. Wow. Do I try to create it in my own life for my kid? Of course I do. And so in some ways, that's been the most healing experience and also the most agitated because you go, oh my God, it's so easy to say, I'm sorry, or this isn't about you, or tuck them in, or like, you seem to really like this. Here's more of this thing. Right. Yeah, just paying attention. Right. Just paying attention. Very rare. Man, oh, man. So how, how are you so lovely? How,

how through all of that? Like, were you constantly aware of it and kind of like quietly taking care of yourself? I, I just, I don't know. I ask that question, too. I don't know. I don't know. I don't why I think like I think and feel like I feel and I don't know. I mean, maybe it's because my, my, my, my mother's father died when I was in utero and the grief hormone flooded the system. And I was like, oh, I'm feeling all the things. Right. Super early on.

But it's, it's, or I don't know. Yeah. I mean, you've got a couple kids. Do they come out cooked? And were they just always themselves? Oh, yeah. They were pretty, yeah, 100%. I'm like, I'm going to step saying 100%.

We need like a bell. Or maybe a taser. What do you want to say instead? Anything. I'm just, have you, 100% is in the culture. And I'm caught up in it. I didn't even realize it was a thing. I thought it was just me.

And then I'm hearing all these other people say it. Don't you feel like, I know you want to go to the 100 thing, but I want to get back to this subject. Don't you feel like you are? You were just given this weird goody bag of you that you came in with and you have to figure out, what is the culture like about it? What can I do to compensate? It's like this, you get a package that you didn't, your eye color, that you didn't get to.

And some people are like, I'm going to change. I'm going to, I'm going to make sure that's smoother all the time. Right. I'm going to look like a duck, horse, pig, or a cat. Right. I'm going to lift my butt and then suck. the fat out of my gut and yeah but you still do that work on the inside too so yeah no i do i mean this definitely is as you were explaining it it it definitely is a case a an endorsement for nature

other than nurture because you were in this environment but you were puzzled as a at a young age that you you're you were baked you do come out i have the same thing like i have I know that I'm very fortunate to be positive and optimistic. And I don't have to conjure it up. And I never have. Wow. Like as a child. Wow.

I'm going to leave. I'm going to leave now. I know. It really irritates people. It's so upset. It really bothers people. But we could be friends. Can we?

We can. We can. No. No, but it really was just, that's just how I came out. Yeah. I mean, there were people around that kind of. cultivated that attitude or whatever, but it was, yeah. I know, I know when I brought these kids home from the hospital.

And when I saw them before we left, it was like, you saw, this is, I'm meeting them. I'm not making them. Right. This essence is there. Yes. It's, it is interesting. Do you think you give good advice to really sad people? I do.

I do. And because it seems like it's not toxic positivity where it's just that thing. It seems genuine. Yeah, no, it's, yeah, it's all wrapped in grief and heartache and all the rest of the stuff that we all have to endure. Yeah. I don't. And I also am very aware that the attitude of, well, just suck it up. Just, oh, you're sad?

Well, come on now. That's highly unreasonable to say to people. It's not really the thing. Right. But there also is some elements of it that, yeah, I'm also a busy buddy and like giving advice to people. I love telling people what to do. Back to 100%. I think if we as a culture can slow down a little bit.

Yeah. And we can look for other ways of saying, I really agree with you or I, that happens to me too. Right. Just downshift. Yeah. Because it is a shorthand. right 100% Mm-hmm

Yeah I recently took Out amazing Would you replace it with Fantastic Yeah At least I'm changing it up Yeah

Yeah I love a thesaurus Yes Do you have a favorite one Do you have one that you At the ready I will I use the one on my computer on the computer yeah all the time i have a uh i have one that my aunt lyn gave me and she's since

passed but she was she was in a wheelchair her whole life she had some a degenerative bone situation so when i met her she was in a wheelchair and she was probably late 20s when i met her i guess anyway she was really like in a wheelchair her whole life my grandmother just took care of her and she was so into language. She was just a very, in this, this was part of the nurture part. Like that person was telling me to live in an optimistic, thankful, grateful way, that person, right? Amazing.

Yeah. And one of the great things she gave me was this thesaurus. She gave me a thesaurus when I was going away to school and she wrote inside some advice about going out into the world. old and what have you. And I still have that thesaurus, oh, man. So like words and like changing them and know that it's coming from her is, it is. Yeah, it's beautiful.

Yeah, that was something that both Gail and Frank had in common and passed along to, I think all of us. Gail read to us when we were a little. That was thrilling. And my father, his vocabulary was so fun to listen to. And he loved naming things and making up names. and making up things. And so that was that was really exciting.

Yeah. But I love how Bray Brown talks about how healing it is to really get to the specificity of a word because anguish is different than sadness. And when you can really name something, then there is relief. It becomes a skeleton key. Right. And it does. It unlocks something and just really, it just, it just, it's the bullseye. Yeah, the right word.

That was fantastic. 100%. Do you read a lot? I do. Yeah? What do you reading now? Well, right now I'm really enjoying listening to memoirs, especially read by the author. Oh, yeah?

I don't like listening to... Oh, before and after. I don't like listening to fiction. I like reading fiction, but I like listening to memoirs. And so right now I'm listening to Prince Harry's book, Spare, and to Griffin Dunn's book. They're both really fun to listen to it. Oh, yeah, Griffin Dunn, that's got to be good. That's what's on my little desk right now.

How are your eyes? My eyes? Yeah. If you stand all the way across to another state, I can see you perfectly. Up close, nothing. Yeah, it's the worst. The worst. The worst.

I have, I've been reading so many things on my iPad because it's just big and I can do whatever and read it except going outside. But I really love holding a book. I love holding a book. And man, the situation I have to create for me to be able to. Holding a magnifying glass in front of the glasses in front of the, I know, it's so much lighting. It's the worst. Yeah.

Forget the beauty light. You're like, aim it at the book. I know. It's such a bummer. It really is. I know. The other day, the other day a plane flew by. I was like, wow, FedEx.

And my kid was like, what, huh? And I was like, this is not right. I shouldn't have eagle eyes and not be able to see your face. Yeah, that's all backwards. So you were journaling when you were started at five. Mm-hmm. So you've been working on this. Since five.

Since five. Yeah, for 51 years. Did somebody, it was because. Because someone gave you the gift of a journal that you started it, right? Frankengale did, yeah. And it looked special, and you decided, I got to fill this up. Yeah, that was, I received a book that had like the gold lettering, whatever that, is that filigree. Is that what filigree is?

That's something else. Maybe. Gold, bound, beautiful book, and it just, it had that feeling of upliftment. The feeling you get maybe if you have a religious experience. And so this journal just, it just set me off on a journey. That's so great. Yeah. And I cannot, there's not a pen that I can't touch, hold, try.

I just, I live for the pens. Yeah. Do you have a go-to? It's always changing. Is it? But I do love, I know it's bad, a disposable fountain pen is my favorite. Fountain, yeah. I like the Bick with the blue cap.

Wow. That's, that's. It's smooth. Right. It's smooth. It's the right. right thickness. Right.

Yeah. No, it has to, the ergodimics of the thing has to match your, yeah. Your, whatever, you, your hand, your. Yeah, you got a, yeah, there's a feel. I baked this bread for you, by the way. No, you did not. Yeah, I did.

Did you really? Are you being serious? I swear to God. Because I'm really gullible. Lena. Tell, tell, tell Moon, what I, what I did last night. Let me, I'm going to say it into the mic, because I think everyone needs to hear it. At 9.50 p.m., I texted from the comedy store, and I said, I already put the Dutch ovens in,

and I said, preheat the oven at 500. This was on the way home, with you on my mind. And then came home in another 20 minutes by the time I got there, and then I baked you that bread. No one's ever done that for me before. Really? So much. Yeah. That's amazing.

Did you happen to bring me any of the starter? I'd love some of your stars. Oh, no, but I'll get. Yeah, for sure. I'll follow you. I'll get it to you. You know, it's a cool thing. These nephews that, like, they're starting to bake and they wanted the starter.

The cool thing, and Joe, you'll appreciate this as a new bread baker. The starter, as you're feeding it and stuff, it kind of, if you leave it out, it'll flake. It'll, like, if it's on the side of the container, or if you just take it and rub it on a plate and just leave it, it'll dry out. and it's like a flake. You can crack those up, put them in an envelope, mail them across the country. They add water to it, and it comes to life. What?

Yeah. Yeah. Now, I can give you both versions because we live in each other. I'm going to want both versions because I'm going to want to experiment with that. Have you done it before? I did a bit of baking and I was getting into it and then I don't remember what happened. Oh, I started to look pregnant. That's what happened.

I was having fun. And my doctor said, stop, stop whatever you're doing. Or we'll have to have three colonoscis this year. Did they die from colon stuff? No. Prostate cancer and lung cancer. Right. Okay.

Good. Thanks for asking. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I want to look at it. I was, I was looking out from your colon. For you besides your aunt and the degenerate thing?

Man, I was thinking about this last night. My, well, I've had, I had all my best friends have died. What? Yeah, since I was a boy. But that,

we don't have to get into. Okay. But for the family, for the genetic stuff, my grandfather died when he was 70 of a stroke, complications from a stroke. And that is the, I was thinking about it last night.

actually. I don't know why, but I was like, yeah, I don't want that to ever happen. That thing of being in there and no one knows, and you can't,

you're claustrophobic in your own head. Oh, yeah, that ain't a good one. No, I know. No colonoscopy tells you that that's coming. I know,

it's so true, if you knew some of the turning points, as we still will call them, that are coming. Yeah. I don't think anybody would take one step forward. They would just hide in their bed and just be like, I'll just stay here. It can happen here.

That's the only, I'm only agreeing to it happening here under this blanket. Under this blanket, looking great. I saw this inspiring thing. Did you hear about that Parkinson's drug? No. Holy cow. They have this new drug. Everyone's very excited about it.

They showed a guy of what his wife filmed him in his kitchen, making coffee the way he has been for the last 10 years, shaking like crazy and trying to do his thing. And then he has, he's the, the candidate for this experiment. And they gave him this drug. And it's like, just flawless doing the same task in the kitchen the next day. Just all control. Yeah. That's amazing.

I know. I was thinking Michael J. Fox should get it next, but he probably has to wait. So it doesn't look like he's jumping the line, you know, as a celebrity. but man, someone's got to get it to him. No one's fought harder to solve that one. Well, for all we know, he might have taken it on the side. We don't know. Yeah.

Yeah, it's true. We haven't seen him around. I can't imagine that he's, and if he has taken it, and it's working, why, I mean, just go do all the things you're waiting to do. Oh, my God. Imagine? Just do all of the things. We were born in the same year.

Oh, is that right? Yeah. What month? September. Ah, November. Okay. Are you sad or a scorp? I'm a scorp.

So where do you? I'm a Libra. A Libra? I feel like we get along. We do. Right? I mean, I feel like this podcast is showing that. Well, 100%.

We don't have to go to Linda Goodman's Sunsign book to prove that. No, we knew that. But by the way, that was something weird growing up where when you see your own name in a book. And I'm in that book with my father as an example of a Libra and a Sagittarius getting along so well. Really? Yeah. Another thing that happened where my name was in a book. I was hopelessly single, trying to work on myself, and I was reading this.

I think it was like maybe Harville Hendricks, one of his books about, you know, keeping the love you find or something. Anyway, as I went through the book, a couple in despair decided to name their relationship, Moon Unit, and then it all worked out for them. And I'm like, you know, I'm just reading, my name, my own business. I'm like, I mean, that just doesn't, I feel like that doesn't happen. to most people? No.

Because of you, something worked out. It's not working out for you, but it's working out for somebody else. Yeah. You might be having a rough slog, but it's really, thank you. That's amazing. When you were younger and you were trying to figure it all out, were you, did you emulate your father as an artist, like that part of it? Was there, was there that thing?

I mean, you had the legendary Valley Girl moment. I think I inherited his perfectionism, but not his output. His perfectionism, but not his output. Yeah, so he made a hundred albums in his lifetime, and I have two books. Right. Two books are done. Yeah. But when you were, were you thinking, well, I have got to create something as a,

I don't think I, finding your way? I don't think I even really had a sense of what I, what my, gifts or talents were? I don't think I really understood that. I'm still not sure. Well, you're a hell of a writer. I remember giving stand-up a try, and I remember thinking, well, it doesn't amuse me to keep saying the same things to different people.

That's really weird to me. Why would I do that? That doesn't make sense to me. But I did like getting laughs, and I did like the storytelling part of it. So then I was like, oh, maybe I'm more of an avant-garde. just, you know, improv type person. Anyway, it's just been, it's been an interesting exploration. And then same with writing.

First, I was a music journalist, and then I gave television writing a try. But then I thought, why would I keep having the hero chase a goal endlessly every week? I'm doing that in my life and I hate it. I don't want to write about that. Right. That doesn't make any sense. And it's like, I'm not a TV writer. It sounds like you have a little of his cynicism.

I guess it is. Of a culture, you know, right? It's like you bring up these things, well, what does that matter? Yeah, he definitely seemed to have that kind of a thing where it would be impossible to be around and come away thinking you were cool in any regard. I think he was lonely a lot of the time. Oh, yeah? I think he felt peerless. I think he did.

Right. Yeah. Who did he hang out with? Nobody. I mean, he, yeah, I don't know. he just, I think luckily he liked what he was doing. So I think the loneliness didn't last as long as, say, mine. Right.

Yeah. His music was always, you could always, you always knew who the kids in school liked Zappa. Mm-hmm. They were very much their own thing. Definitely. They were a little weird. Mm-hmm.

They were still in rock, like they were cool, but weird. Probably neurodivergent. Yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely not popular with girls. No. Yeah, yeah.

But I dare you to say they weren't like that Zappa wasn't cool and that they're not cool. Oh yeah. They were also very like the, you know this from when we grew up. They were very much the kids in the. in the record shop who knew more than you. Definitely. And the Dungeons and Dragons kids and the ones that are quiet and just observing, they have a lot

that they're thinking about. I remember thinking when I was acting, why do actors get all the interview spots? Because they're just literally saying things that they didn't come up with. Whereas musicians, they're writing it. They're writing the lyrics. They're thinking about stuff.

Yeah. Get a scientist and a musician. But of course, they're too shy. So they don't they don't make good TV. Yeah. All the time. I mean, nowadays, a lot of them do. But when I was growing up, it was just, it was just all the people that were shiny on the outside.

Right. But, you know, going back and thinking about the people that peaked in high school versus the ones that were just quietly just, I'm going to have a, I'm going to have an empire someday. Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah, just keeping themselves, just going at it. I know. It's so insane. Have you watched the Olympics?

I have not seen anything. Nothing? Nothing. Oh. Do you want to tell me something about it? I heard about the poll thing. Oh, yeah. And I heard about the woman who said, I'm going to get injured, so I'm not doing it.

Right. I heard those two amazing stories. Yeah. Anything else I missed? Yeah, the ads in between the events on NBC. Yeah. The ads in between. It's very eerie.

So was it because of the production, like the storytelling is good, or because you love the product so much? None of the above. It seems to be AI generated. Oh. AI filmed. AI elements. These people aren't in the same scenes together.

It seems to me, right? And you really pointed it out. I was just kind of glazed over. That it seems like this is the first taste of, oh, humans aren't making this. Hmm. Right? It feels like, Joe, have you seen,

you know what I'm talking about? I mean, I would say it's almost all AI stuff. Everything from the content to the process. It's really, it's like this is the first time. And it feels synthetic. It feels eerie. It feels weird. You know, there's also the Al Michaels app.

Al Michaels is a broadcaster for football. It's a famous voice. Apparently, they recorded his voice. And if you go on the app and want to get the download of the day of what it is, it's AI version. Al Michaels telling you about what happened. Is that crazy? That's that.

It's happening. Justine. It's so weird. Justine Bateman. I'm so sorry. Hello, Joe. Welcome to your daily Olympic recap. Looking back on yesterday's the AI version of him.

Yeah, I hate that. It's so weird. I hate that. Justine Bateman is starting a something amazing. She's starting a film festival where there's, it's only going to be submissions that are nothing to do with AI. And that's really powerful. And I've seen some memes wearing around that just say,

why would I want to see or read anything that no one made? That's a terrible idea. And do you remember when comedy, it was just people trying to just like shock you? And it just feels like, oh. Right. I mean, okay, contrasting images and a thing. Right.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just, I'm not, I'm not into it. And yet I heard a great use for AI is if you're trying to vision board for yourself, you let the thing build a dream for you and make suggestions. Yeah. I think that's hilarious. That is insane.

Because I can't do Pinterest, but maybe I could have something else suggest. Can I give you a very human moment? Yes, please. Because I think you're going to accept it. Okay. I have to pee so bad. Can I just run down the hallway and come back? I would love that.

I was hoping you'd say that. Because I could muster through it, but I'm going to get short and I'm going to be like wiggly. I'll think it's coffee, but yeah, no, let's keep you comfortable. Thank you. We all know that home-cooked meals are much better for you. You know, you feel guilty at the end of the day and you're like, what am I going to give my family, what I'm going to give my body? And you want to make food yourself and then you end up ordering and then you order fries on the side and you act like you didn't order it. And before you know it, you've spent too much money on food that's.

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Hello Fresh is wonderful because now at the end of the day, you're not going to feel guilty because you will have made a great meal very simply without even going to the store. Hello Fresh, America's number one meal kit. Free Papa. Well, we finished the show without you. I think it was. I think it went well. Now, AI would have continued with the interview. That's right. We'd never have had to take a break. That's right.

But I'll tell you something AI can't do, make you that bread. That's what I just said. You did? That's what I just said. I'm telling you, we're on the same wavelength. I think we're going to be friends. I'm just putting in a sauna. Are you doing the kind that has the red, infrared thing?

No. Or what kind of sauna? Are it sweaty, the wet one or the dry one? What? The wet sauna with steam? Steam, yes. Steam. Yeah, the rocks.

Oh, yeah, nice. Yeah, the infrared I heard isn't so, is good for you. I don't know anything. What the benefits are. So we don't have strokes or coal and stuff. Are you a cold plunge person too? Mm-mm. No.

No. And I don't think I would be. Well, no, because you have a nervous system that can handle transitions and surprises easily. Oh, is that what it is? Cold plunge people are generally people that need a, A whole nervous system reset. Oh, really? Yeah, it's actually one of the things that's recommended.

What do you mean by that? That you, because you're... It just, it's like, it's like a turning your computer off and then, and turn you back on. Yeah, it's a reboot. Oh. Yeah, the whole bunch reboot. And the song is just a hang out and sweat. Just feeling comfortable.

Yeah. Just chilling. Yeah. Do we need to close this door by weed? I mean, somebody that's sitting closer to it. Should we go make a Starbucks run? We do a thing on this program where, you know, I like baking bread and we like the finer things in life. But also I grew up in New Jersey and I like to taste test weird things we find in the supermarket.

Amazing. They're not too crazy. Are you vegan? No? No. No. I guessed you would be. I know, I know I seem vegan to myself.

Yeah. I'm heading in that direction. Maybe. No, but I'm heading in that direction. You are? Yeah. Yeah. I eat fish. You do.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is interesting. This is a curveball. Okay. Do we want to give her a more fun test then? I'll eat, whatever it is. I got you.

We were going to do these cauliflower stalks. Let's try one. You want to try it? Yeah, I'd love to. All right. I don't know if it's going to taste like cauliflower. Okay. Do you want to have a cauliflower beside it? Well, you said cauliflower. Collie. What did I say?

Cauliflowers. Is it made of collie dogs as well? What do you say? cauliflower. cauliflower. It's an it for me and a for you. cauliflower. Where were you born? You're 100% wrong.

I was born in New Jersey. Oh, you said that. Right. Yeah. Right. Well, in Cali, we say. Yeah. cauliflower. Coliflower. Well, we're going to try some cauliflower stalks. And Joe's a vegan.

So this is kind of the stuff that he gets to eat. Okay. Okay. Let's start with the smell. Wow. Okay. Yep. Right?

Yep. It's already upsetting. Should I? Yeah, go for it. All right. And then you do it. Okay. They feel like those things that you have with coffee that's got the chocolate in it and you dip a thing.

Oh, like a biscotti? No. the little, like the, what are they called? It starts with the pee. It's like a little French chocolatey dessert thing. Oh, a pompon-fon. No, it feels more like those, you know, when you get a something, a package. Oh, yeah.

And it's those packing peanuts and then you don't know what to do with them. Sure. Now. Cheers. Okay. Hello, ASMR people. Yeah, sorry about that. It's not bad.

It's not bad. I kind of like it. I would not say it's cauliflower or cauliflower. It's neither of those things. And it's, it's, I could, I could snack on it. Yeah, I like it. Joe, this is pretty good. Are they going to be your new sponsors or?

Maybe. They don't look like they have the budget. From the ground up. cauliflower stalks. Not bad. The stocks, not the florets. Not the florets, right. Oh, yeah.

Interesting. Just the stalk, which you never eat. Right, they've found something to do with the stocks, everyone. Now, neither of us can really see the... You hold it in Tarzana, and I can see it. Oh, God. I need light. Lena, can you see if there's really cauliflower stalks in this?

I mean, that would be pretty, I don't think so. Do you think that they just said stock sounds better than florets? No one knows it's the florets that we eat. Casava is the first ingredient. Cossava? All right, I just want to know if there was stocks. I taste the sorghum. Oh, yeah, the sorghum, right.

There's a lot of sorghum in this. It's sorghum forward. I hope you like sorghum. I love it. Because there's a lot in this bread. I love it. Out of ten, I would give it probably seven. I agree.

Right? I agree. That's funny. I assumed you were vegan. Yeah. No, I probably am starting today. It was because of your alternative upbringing, I figured, well, they probably can't let you eat me. Sometimes people give me a lot of tie-dye.

And they're like, I thought this made me think of you. And I think, oh, okay. Now. And then I take them out of my contacts. How dare you? drugs though he wasn't into drugs no so there's a drug-free house yeah that's a blessing oh my gosh oh my god imagine if it was all that weirdness and drugs oh that'd be the worst yeah i don't think you'd be here having written a book oh no no no definitely not that's a yeah that i know that

that is like yeah yeah yeah for sure that being said do you do drugs now i've just started um but it's uh it's going pretty good no i i'm not interested yeah interested i mean Frank really felt he was such a purist. He did not want any, any filter, any dulling, any dimming. He wanted the pure extract of his own creativity. And so that was definitely something that was impressed upon me. And also his work ethic and his integrity.

And even if I didn't like what he did, he owned what he did. Right. This is me. Yeah. And he, I think it takes a lot of, of courage to like everything about yourself. In a self-defense class, for example, what you don't like about yourself, you won't protect.

Really? What you don't like about yourself, you won't protect. Yeah, you'll be susceptible in that area. So I would just let people hit me in the face? That's a good strategy in a fight. That's weird. Interesting. Or I probably would let them hit my love handles.

I can't get rid of these things no matter what I do. They're going to the end. Do you do butter or olive oil with your bread? What's your deal? Mostly butter. Yeah. Toast. Oh, my God.

Is that the, I mean, would you rather have that than cake? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I did it. I did it. I could have said it. I didn't. This is a victory.

Oh, that was good. It's so hard. Yeah, butter. You know what I really like, which is fish. Okay, fish lady. Instead of butter? No, no, no. I really didn't know where that was going.

You just rub a fish on it. No, one of my favorite things to do with the bread is take a lightly toast it, a little cream cheese, sardines, mushed up, and capers. Nice. Some arugula if it hasn't gone bad. I always get arugula in that I can never eat it quicker, quick enough. Huh. It always smells really bad, really fast.

It could be the arugula. Yeah, probably is. Stupid Ralph's. But, yeah, but that is a, no, people are kind of anti-antobie or sardine, but I love them both. Oh, I love an anchovy. I love a bitarga. Oh, my God. That is, I know.

It's rude. It's rude. It's rude. It's rude, but it's so. It's so good. What was that? Medeo, that Italian restaurant that moved, it was on Beverly, the down below. When did it move?

I haven't been in a minute. They sold the building. I'm going to flip this table. I know. I'm sorry to do this to you. This is the worst way to find it out. Actually, it's the best way because you're so kind. It was the great.

Go on. Where can I get the Batarga? They had Batarga in that restaurant. That was the first time I had it. Really? Yeah. The best. And then when I went to Sicily, I just ate it at every single restaurant.

Who does it the best here? Wow. I was thinking about doing it at home, but it doesn't... Do it. You got to kind of shave it off of a block. Yeah. Is that too tiring? Can someone else do it?

It seems more magical if I'm not doing it. You know what I mean? What if you just like look away? I'm going to use your strategy. And then when you look back, yeah, you just don't do it. How about we make Batarga? And then just walk away. And then just walk away.

But they changed it. They moved it over somewhere in, The heart of Beverly Hills, like Rodeo, one of those. And it's not the same. I am crying on the inside. I'll have to, I'm saving the cry up for the drive home. It was legendary. Legendary.

I guess we have to do something ourselves. Maybe we have a Batarga party. There's probably another place we can find that's, you're really trying to get out of it. Yeah, because it was so perfect. I mean, it was such an elegant. You know what, that's fine. Let's just go on a Batarga hunt. I feel like we're having a first fight.

I feel like we're handling it really well. Are we? Yeah, I think, yeah, Batarga Hunt. That is, it's so interesting because I loved it so much, but I literally have not thought about it in such a long time. Yeah. I wonder if Dan Tannis has it. No way. No way.

That's just red sauce. Right? There's no way. Muson Franks, no way. Oh, man. When's the last time you're there? I don't know, but when I was there, Anthony Hopkins was sitting at the counter alone. And I was like, I have died in content.

Oh, that's great. I had an uncomfortable moment at Madeo. It was early on. And the only time I could get a reservation, my folks were visiting. And they loved that restaurant. And the only reservation I could get was like at five in the afternoon. My favorite time to eat. Yeah, I know.

Now it is 100. It's the best. Literally at four, I'm like walking around the house. Like, what are you guys thinking? I think we just ate lunch. Steve Martin and Diane Keaton were the only other two people in the restaurant at that time sitting in a booth. And they're just legends. And it ruined the whole meal because I wanted to go over and just hug them and tell them everything.

And I was holding that back and didn't want to ruin that moment. I just, so I sat there, never approached and just felt like we got to get out. out of here the whole time. Amazing. Amazing. Did you watch that documentary about him? Incredible, right? Incredible.

So did he date her? I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. He just talked about art. The best part of that documentary for me was when he was talking about John Candy. Oh, okay. Yeah.

When he was talking about John Candy and plain strains. Yeah, there were so many amazing moments in it. Just what an original thinker. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. So what else you're going to write now? You got the whole life story out now. Yeah, I know.

I'm going to take a little break, but I do love monsters. So I probably will go into the fantasy world a bit. Oh, can I tell you my favorite monster? Please. Godzilla. That was my dad's favorite. It was? Yeah, Amit is named after Rodan.

Amit Imuka Rodan Zappa. Really? Not the sculptor, the monster. See, now, I don't know how to feel because I adore you. And I feel like we're becoming fast friends. And your book is so good. And I like Zappa, like you had to like Zappa. You know, like respect it and cool.

And his interviews are super cool and stuff. But he also created a lot of obstacles. for you growing up. So when you say that he loved Godzilla, I want to be like, should my response be cool? He like Godzilla too? Or should I be like, I don't care that he likes Godzilla. Well, we are going to discuss it on our Batarga crawl.

But I would say that the obstacles he created, I climbed over. So, and I'm all the stronger for it. So. So we have love and our lives. our heart for him ultimately. Of course. Of course. Because you say the word, I'll cut him out. Can I just tell you something? This is the most rare thing. This is my favorite kind of a friend. When you go to them and they say, we ride at dawn. I need a rewrite at dawn friend. Yeah. In this, people now, they do that thing of like, it's an inside job. You have to love yourself

first. Oh, God. I'm like, no. No, get in there with me. Yeah. Roll your sleeves up too. Yeah. Come for them. and then I'll go, let's calm down. I can handle it in a mature way. Yeah. That's how you get to the mature way. No, exactly. Len the Adam for you on your behalf.

Right, I'll go. Please, this is so important. All right, good. I'm going to, I hope I'm not going too forward with this ride at dawn thing. I'm going to make an assumption here. But look, look, you're the general. So if I'm a misstep, you could say, easy soldier, no, you're wrong on this one.

But I'll be like, all right, cool. He like, Godzilla? that's cool. I like that he liked Godzilla. I'm with you. I don't care if Gail liked Godzilla so much. Yeah. Gail was the troublemaker.

Yeah. If she liked Godzilla, I'm moving to King Kong. That's exactly right. Right? Exactly. All right. Yeah, you got it.

All right, good. You've summed up the book. Yeah. In two Godzilla references. I do love Godzilla, though. And I watched the first one from 1954. Holy cow. Godzilla started, the reason Godzilla is so, they're all sick of me talking about it,

but the reason Godzilla is so powerful is because the big bang of that first movie was rooted in such, in such dark, profound places because of the nuclear attack that we launched on them. And it's really deep, it's really deep and heartfelt and it all comes from that. And man, it was a good thing to go back and read. I was just like, oh, Godzilla's fun and the new movie. And I'm like, I'm going to go back and watch the first one. I was like, whoa, wait a minute. This made me love it even more.

Are you going to do a side podcast just about Godzilla? Because I think you should. I don't know. Just spitballing, but I think you might want to take us through the, in a criterion collection kind of way. Just take us through the Godzilla movies. It is pretty great. I just, we just listen to, we read, and then there were none.

And then we listened to it. on tape or whatever, the audio version. And then we watched two versions of it from the, I think from the 40s and from the early 2000s. It's so fun to just kind of go on that ride of seeing all the different iterations of it. And the early racism that then they tried to like make okay with the weird makeout scene. People are like, I'm scared of me to die. It doesn't make any sense.

but you go with it. Now how, as you've, you are a great mom, despite your mom, you learned how to do it the right way. Well, let's let our kids decide how we are as parents. I can pat myself on the back, but I'm just not doing the things that were done to me, I hope. Right. But go on. Just as a, go on with a compliment I couldn't take. Just as a mom, yeah, just as a mom advice.

If you If you were me and you love Godzilla And then they have this new movie that comes out That won an Academy Award Didn't know that but go on Yeah And I'm blanking on the name of it The last

Godzilla minus one And Based on the Agatha Christie story Just kidding And you loved And it's possibly One of the greatest Godzilla movies of all time And you told your daughter who is really into film and writing that she has to watch Godzilla minus one with you.

And then she was home for the summer and refuses to watch it. What would you do to that child? Does that child have a car? No. Don't give it one. I mean, hold that over their head until they've seen the film. Okay. And then give them the most fancy car afterwards, like a Mercedes.

a SUV or something. I don't know. I don't think you're that great a mom anymore. I was with you over the first time. No, I do know a funny story about one of my favorite mom stories is, and I won't say who it is, but she's, she had a kid that was getting bullied at school and she said, okay, it was going on for a while. And then she said, okay, tomorrow you're going to punch that child.

And then you're going to get called into the principal's office. And then I'm going to get called into the principal's office. And we're going to sit there and we're going to listen to that principal say, you shouldn't have done it. It's wrong. And we're both going to nod our heads. Say sorry. And then we're going shopping.

That's amazing. Because that child will never do it again. That's great. What a great one. So if I can read between the lines, you're saying I should punch my daughter. I don't think I said punch. That's amazing. It is really cool.

So what monster do you like? I love a werewolf. I love a Dracula. I mean, I love a Frankenstein. You ever see the Abbott and Costello one? Oh, yes. That's so good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Isn't it really great? Mm-hmm, it is. Yeah. Because you get all the monsters in there and they're... I think, yeah, monster movies let us tell stories we can't tell otherwise. Right. Yeah. So would you create another monster or would you...

I probably would take a genre that's known, familiar, and then just kind of twist it. a bit. Yeah, because there's been a lot of twists on the vampire. Yeah. Not a lot on the mummy. Mm-hmm. By the way.

Some on werewolf? By the way, I am obsessed with this Egyptologist. I'm going to send you, I'm going to send you her Instagram. Okay. Her name's, I think it's Dr. Colleen Darnell, and she's an Egyptologist, and I am obsessed with her. I would like to be her not only in another life, but starting now. What do you have to do?

Go to Egypt? I wish she would take me to Egypt. She's living life like it's the 1920s, and she's an Egyptologist in the 1920s. Oh, really? And I give standing ovations in my house to her. I just came... What do you mean? What does she do?

I don't even want to spoil it for you. She's discovering things. She's going... She can read hieroglyphics, number one. How badass is that? And she's a legit professor of Egyptology. And she is... She has all kinds of photoshoots and does video things.

And I don't even want to give it away. It's just, it's so good. But every single time I'm just like, oh, my God, keep it coming. Yeah. Well, yeah, now that you say it, though, now that all those images are going through my head, there has been some mummy stuff. Right?

There was those that, you know, they made rides out of it at Universal and stuff. Yeah. And Ray's Lost Ark had some mummy stuff. And then it doesn't matter what color. Breed. It doesn't matter. Right.

And that's the thing about monster movies is that it's an equalizer. Yeah, that's really true. Yeah, because then you can just get to the story part because it's so annoying all the, whatever. Yeah, trying to check all the boxes. It's exhausting. Just cut to monsters. Yeah, right. Exactly.

Yeah, there's a place to deal with that and now we're dealing with just fear. What about combining them into a new monster? He's part mummy, part Dracula? Sure. I love something that you could wipe with and that could also bite you. It's so funny how quickly we could turn things into comedy. We were going to go into a dark place with this monster stuff. No, it's like, no, we have a guy that's constantly providing you with toilet paper.

Do you know another thing I really love? Side note. Grapefruit spoons. They are so underrated. Yeah, I know, but it's a sore spot with me because I'm on a statin and you're not allowed to have grapefruit. I am so sorry I brought it up. That's all right. I couldn't have known.

I love grapefruit so much. I've always loved grapefruit and the grapefruit spoon, you're exactly right. Could you use the spoon for something else? What? Butter? That won't spread. It'll get stuck in the thing. Will you have the sardines, you think?

Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. Good. I might not have the cream cheese with it, though. Why? Well, as I'm heading towards vegan and eliminating the fish, I'm going to just take one thing away first. Okay. All right. Maybe I'll taste it and then stop.

All right. I'm going to get you some starter. Great. You're going to tell me about the Egyptianologist? Yeah, Colleen Darnell. Colleen Darnell. Don't know the handle, but yes. Are you going to take the cauliflower stalks?

Are you going to give them to Joe? I am going to give them to Joe. But I am going to cook a cauliflower. at my house later today. Okay, that's very nice. In honor of having tasted them. Congratulations on the book. Thank you so much.

Really? Thank you. Thank you. It's such a good feeling when you actually get it in your hands. Yeah, and I'm looking forward to when people read it and hearing if it helped them because so many things have just, again, been a skeleton key for me. Just saved my life. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you feel a lot better after having it all done? I thought I would feel like I'd purge something and then the next thing would just automatically just rise to the top. But I don't. I think I just, I think I'm still in shock that I did it. That you did it. Have you had any blowback from people in the orbit? No, no.

But they have, they, you know, no one's read it yet. So I hope I don't have any blowback. Right. But yeah, we'll see what happens. Well, it sounds like you dealt with the truth. So that's on them. Well, and they have their own stories too. Right.

blowback so right well this was really nice thank you so much yeah and uh let's continue doing more things okay all right