Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 240 - Anthony Jeselnik

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Tom and Anthony talk comedy specials, food, and cancel culture Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Misselneck. Very excited to have him on the program because he has a new special out on Netflix called Bones and All. And I got to say, I said it to his face. It's the best he's done. He keeps getting better. It's very funny, very dark. It really is, it's really pretty great. We have a great little treat that we share on this program, really good. And we, and we, We also debunk his whole anti-kid stance. We really went at it, and I think, well, you'll see when we get to it. He's very funny, very smart, very thoughtful about his comedy, and I really enjoy the conversation. He's been on this program before, way back, way back in the day.

And I actually gave him bread from probably from Lodge Bread. So this is the first time he's actually going to have the loaf that I actually baked for him right before the interview. And I can only imagine we're going to have to talk to our booking people because once he does have the bread, knowing Anthony, he's going to, he's going to bother us a lot. Yeah, he's going to want to be on the podcast almost weekly. So I don't know how we handle that when stars get.

aggressive, but I would anticipate it. Let's just flag it. Okay. Flag. Let's just flag it. His special's so good, and we have a really good conversation about that and his comedy career and just how he treats it all. And just a real treat. Enjoy.

Anthony Jezzelnick. It's so good, Anthony. Thank you. It's so good. It's stressful for me. I'm one of those guys. I can watch it like twice, three times in the edit, and then I'm like, I'm done with this.

I remember the shows. I was on the road for two years. Yeah. And I had so much fun during each one of those shows. In between was hell. But being on stage was so great that I just hope that the special captures that. You don't really know until it hits. I know.

And then you hear the feedback. You're like, okay, good. People like this. Yeah, you start to get an idea. I always say, like, I never read the comments. Unless I start to catch wind that people really like it. And then I'll eat them up. I find that all comments negative and positive are the same.

Yeah. Like you get the positive ones, you're like, okay, this is boring now. And the negative ones are all the same. Or you can tell what they're mad about and where it's coming from. And you're like, okay, I get that you're mad about this. Yeah. I just kind of what this one was like, I'm just going to, I did it. I stood up there.

I toured it. I did it. I shot it. It's there. I'm not going to nitpick about any of it. And I'm like, they want to pick clips. They want to do that. And I was just like, I'm going to go with God and just let it go.

And it was so, because you start to realize worrying about all the minutia doesn't really, it's not really worth it. See, I'm very much different in that I want to know what clips because I don't trust them. Like they'll do the trailer where it's like, the other day I was, and then I went over and like they cut it up so much. We're like, just leave, give me one joke. I know. Just put one joke in there. And then I'll be like, give me this other joke. And they'll give me the wrong one.

They think they got the right one. Because of the name I gave and it's like, no, no, no, I need it to be like this. I trust them as little as possible. And my last special was 2019. And I remember going into Netflix and I'm going through everything. I hear the pictures you can choose from. Here the clips. Hear everything.

Huge presentation. Like amazing work. And I'm like, oh my God, that one right there. Number 13 out of 30 is. is the one I want. Yeah. And this time it was way different where I'm like, what happened? Do they not care about me anymore?

And it was like, no. They don't do that anymore. All those people got fired. Yeah. Everyone from 2019 is gone. It's a new crew and they do it differently. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah.

Got it. You can kind of let that go a little bit. Yeah, not the big presentation thing anymore. And, oh, ma'am. But, I mean, that's all great work. I can't tell you how, I mean, I see a lot. You know, my Netflix radio show. I see a lot of stuff come through.

and this is really, really, really, really good. Thank you. It's really, really good. I'm very proud of it. And we talked before about, you know, we ran into the comedy store post-pandemic. We're there trying to save the store from the loss of Joe Rogan. You know, it's like, okay, who are the big names who can come in and keep people coming here? And we talked about just, you know, just you were like, are you doing getting ready for a special?

I'm like, no. Yeah. I just want to be a comedian. I want to write new jokes, try them out and enjoy myself at night and not worry about the hour. And I remember that, because I loved hearing that because I'm so hung up on people saying the hour, the hour, I'm working on my hour, just, you know, shut up. How about just work on your act? How about your act? And who knows what it's going to be?

But you at that point weren't even going on the road. You were like, I'm just sticking in town and I'm going to do my thing. And last night I watched the special. And I was like, this, so how long did he tour for like six months and then put the special up? but it actually had been years. Well, I had, shortly after we had our conversation, they had the first Netflix as a joke festival. The first one.

It was in May of, you know, two years ago. Yeah, 22, Joe? 22. And I said on stage, I have like half an hour. So it's like just like and friends. I've got a bunch of people doing some time. I do 30 minutes. And then I like told a story, tried some new things out,

like longer form stuff. Yeah. That did well there. and then never did well again. You know, one of those where you're like, oh my God, I've got a whole new story, and people are like, what, what do you, this is 10 minutes, what are you doing?

And, but on stage, I'd said, you know, in October of this year, will be 20 years that I've been doing stand-up comedy. Right. And the crowd cheers, and my agent was in the audience. And he texts me, right, like, I get off stage and I see a text,

like 20-year tour. You got to do it. Yeah. You got to pick six clubs and just do, like I'm marking 20 years. Yeah. And so went out with half an hour material, did a couple old jokes,

took some questions. And at the end of that six weeks of clubs, I was like, you know what? I'm like, like the questions that were being asked then became part of the act. People kept asking like, what was it like to work with Norm? You know, what was like, what's your favorite joke? You know, what was your favorite roast joke?

And I was like, okay, I've got this now. Yeah. Now let's book a real tour. I did another six months of clubs and then a year of theaters and then went international. So it was two years total. Right. But it was amazing to see the jump from the last tour.

You know, places where I would do, you know, one show in a smaller theater. Now I'm doing two shows in a bigger theater, four shows in a bigger theater, where I think that the last Netflix special, and especially the clips. Yeah. You know, Instagram, TikTok, that changed things when my audience jumped up. Yeah. I was getting to do much bigger venues, and that really meant the world to me. That's amazing.

To go out and see that the last one actually was successful and people want to see what you're doing next, I think, was a big... How funny that it's a big... years for you even know that that was going on. You have to find out. You see comments or whatever, but until you go and sell tickets again, you don't know. And I'm not a guy who's like specials out Tuesday,

tour starts Friday. It's like specials out Tuesday. Hope you like it. I'll see you in three or four years, you know, if I'm lucky. It's a great. It really is, it's such a refreshing way to go about it.

And it proves that patients can pay off. Because I think everybody, a lot of people are on this track of get the next one out as quickly as possible. Don't let the momentum stop. But if you put out something good, you can be patient. It's, it actually isn't that you put out something good, just that you put out something great because you let it marinate and really get the time. It's really, it was, that's impressive, that the last one was five years ago? Yeah. Wow. Usually it's, it's been like three or four years, but the pandemic took me out for a year. And I took a little extra time with the tour.

Right. And as I'm getting older, you know, touring gets a little bit harder. I thought being, excuse me, being sober would be easier. It was in some ways more difficult. Yeah. You know, some shows. How was it more difficult? Getting to sleep. You know, like getting, like, you're after the show.

You're all jacked up. And I used to like, you know, drink a six pack of beer, eat a pizza, go to bed. You're a little hung over in the morning, but you're okay. Yeah. And then before that next show, have a couple beers. You know, you're in like Iowa City somewhere and you're like, this show isn't as big to me as Carnegie Hall. Right. Let's have a couple beers.

And I'll be a little more. smiling and I just didn't have that. I lost like 30 pounds on the store. Yeah, you look thinner. Yeah. I'm putting it back on and I was like, oh, but I had to like on the road go buy a new pair of jeans. Right. Because I went down a waist size and it was just All beer? It wasn't just beer. It was that

I wouldn't, I wasn't eating late at night. You know, you get offstage. Yeah. And if you have two shows, pizza's your only option. You know. At midnight. Yeah. And so, and so I wasn't doing that. My openers hate me because I don't eat like, I won't eat like. and they're so hungry. But that can't be the only reason. No, there's a lot. I also make them watch my act.

Oof. I like the ones who pretend they watched it. Come back and be a great set. You're like, come on. I love them all. One of them said just recently. I really like that bit. It has been in the act for four years.

And they were like, I really like that. That's new. I was like, you've been pretending to watch me for three years. I love the compliments that people give that are so misplaced. Like I remember Dr. Ken, when I'm in a comedy festival in Vancouver or something, I'm doing a big, or Toronto. And Dr. Ken's at the show before me. And he comes off stage.

He's like, Anthony, you're the greatest comic of all time. I'm here with my friends. They're all like famous actors. He's like, we're going to watch you. And I'm like, great. Thanks, Kim. He sits right on the side of the stage. and his laugh, as you know, is so loud

that's all I can hear. And I'm like, I'm happy, I'm doing my thing. 20 minutes into the set, they get up and they go to dinner. Oh, no. And I'm like, that's totally fine. You don't have to watch my act. It's great.

And then he comes back at the end and laughs at the last five minutes and I come off stage and goes, that was amazing. The whole thing, front to back, was incredible. I'm like, how do you think that I missed your laugh? How do you think that I don't know

when you left and when you came back? It's hilarious to me. I mean, comic to comic, that's totally fine. I was at Montreal Festival once, and Jim Brewer was on, you know, sometimes you have like back-to-back headline. You know, he does the 7 o'clock. I do the 9 o'clock. And he had the early one. So I get there early.

He's still on. And agents were courting him. And it's getting towards the end of his act. And these two agents come running in, all sweaty. And they, like, catch the last two minutes of the thing. And they're trying to sign. him and he comes offstage, comes back, oh my God, the agents. What a set.

That was amazing. What you did was amazing. From the beginning to end, you just had them. I'm just watching the lies come out of their mouths as he's soaking it up as a performer. Like, really? Maybe these guys are all right. But I don't know about you. I don't believe anyone anymore.

The compliments, I'm like, what would you say if it was the worst thing you'd ever seen? Everyone's a great, amazing special. We love it. It's not until they prove it to me. Like Netflix was like, we love this. And I'm like, do you? Like, you have so many specials. Like, I don't know what the fuck you love.

Yeah. And then they're like, we wanted to do it Thanksgiving weekend. And I was like, okay, now I believe you. Right. If you want to put my fucking dead baby bullshit up against Thanksgiving, then I know you must believe in it. So, yeah, let's go. All right, well, let me prove that I liked it.

Please. It's such an amazing thing that you do. And I literally, since I watched it, it was, I think you're the only one that does it, and I don't know how you do it, and I'd love to know where your brain is. You're one of the only people that while you're in the act will talk about the act and talk about the jokes from a distance and then not lose the spontaneity of being in it. Like you will comment, I'm saying this more for our listeners and to clarify for you, but you'll, will say, guys, this joke, this joke I came up with doing what, blah, bum, bum, and I'm going to explain it to you, like even your opener, like, I don't want to give stuff

away, but I'm going to explain this joke and I'm going to talk about it. And then you'll go into it and it's, it's like, you know, stand up is a trick of making it seem like it's coming off the top of your head. You have this ability to step back as a narrator of your own act and not lose the spontaneity of the act. Thank you. I think Gaffigan does that a little bit with the voices, you know, with the commenting on the act is doing. Yeah, a little bit.

I think when I do it, it raises the tension. When I'm talking about this joke, like there's one joke where I say, guys, I'm sorry, I hate to do this to you. Yeah. But this next joke is going to be too smart for the crowd. Yeah. And when I do it, I'm on the road, and I'll come off in the special, on the road, I'll walk over to the side of the stage where, like, the sound people are. And I'm like, what? Okay.

And then I look at my watch. Uh-huh. And then I go, guys, you guys have been great. I hate to do this to you. And the whole crowd gets so silent because they're like, fuck, what's happening right now? And then I go into it. It's like, it's all just building tension and letting it go. So in that beginning part you're talking about where I'm commenting on the joke you're about to hear, it's just like raising their expectations of like what are we in for.

Yeah. And then you cut the rug out from under the road. Right. And you do it several times throughout the special. It really is so great. It's really like, as someone that's been in comedy forever, it really. it really is like, it's refreshing and fun because it's, you don't see it done. Thank you.

It really is. Because like normally if you were to stop down and be like, guys, I wrote this joke about whatever at this time, the joke would lose a little something because you've taken them out of the, oh, this is all just coming off the top of my head. Yeah. If you say you're joking, like this is the joke. When I, like, this joke, they're like, okay, we're expecting a joke. But somehow my setups put them into a trance. Yeah. where they believe me, like, your uncle.

Oh, your uncle did. And like not knowing there's a joke coming, like John Mullaney will say he watches the audience. Right. Because I reset them every time where they'll laugh and they'll be like, oh, okay. So your dad went. And I'm like, oh, another one. Like, you know, they're coming.

Yeah. The real brilliant stroke, though, in the writing is that you, it's all surprising. Like, comic to comic, it's so great to, like, you can tell. You watch your friends. Sure. And you see a joke coming. You see it coming. You're like, it's going to be around this area.

He's going to flip it to this. The punchline will be about that. You really are surprising. It really does, you, the misdirect is. Thank you. And that's the writing. I mean, my goal is to get the comedians second guessing themselves. Right.

You know, if the comedians are like, fuck, I didn't see that coming. Then you know you're good with the audience. Like, have you ever talked about third thought? Mm-mm. Like, first, if you're, if you're, making a joke first thought is what anyone won't come up with it's like whatever second thought is okay i see what you did but i would have gotten there you know if i'm trying to guess your joke yeah and third thought is no one gets it right no one would get that and that's where i try to live that's like the

best joke you can tell yeah and then i all like that yeah that's my that's my goal yeah yeah and i've yeah i never uh is that your concept third thought no i did not come up with it but i i i'm sure i learned it in, I don't know what joke writer or, you know, comedy, comedy teacher brought that out. But I was like third thought and the second smile that Michael O'Donnie, he would talk about where you want them laughing and you want their throats cut. Right. At the same time. And I was like, perfect.

I'm putting this down. This is great. It's so good. My favorite joke, I think, which I couldn't do the math on before it showed up, was the baseball. thinking baseball. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Thank you.

That was fun to do in Europe where they didn't know what the fuck I was talking about where they were like, what, I don't know. We'll laugh at the end of this, but we don't know the baseball terms. But yeah, that was the last joke.

That was the one joke that once I started the tour, I came up with and put it into the act. Everything else I'd like this is for the next one, but that one I came up and was like, this is a solid, a solid piece of work. It really is. It really, because you're like, no, don't tell you.

And then you explain, no, what do you mean thinking? It's perfect. I think, I mean, with the specials done, I'm sure you've seen this, it really is, like, people don't watch the whole special. Netflix will be like, you retained 80% of the audience for 40 minutes.

You're like, well, like my last special, I had this 15-minute story about taking a friend to get an abortion. Right. And I was so proud of it. Yeah. And no one saw it because people don't watch the whole special. Really?

So now it's like, what clips go out there? What clips get out there, then become viral, and then people will go back and see it. But it's just a weird comedy's changed so much in what success is and what it can be. And in a way it's gotten easier. But it's just strange. I mean, you came up the way I did where it was like you got on late night.

Yeah. Comedy Central. You know, premium blend if you could. Half hour would be great. And then if you got a special, it was like a huge deal because no one had an hour special. Yeah. And now everyone does. Late night means nothing.

Zero. And there is no Comedy Central. Like it really is just, it's podcasting and getting a special out there. And they're a special that be put on YouTube. They'll be just as successful as something that's on HBO or Netflix because of the engagement and the clips. Yeah. The clips are huge. Huge.

Huge. I'm lucky that I'm like designed for the clips. Like I started social media two years ago. My agent was like, you need it now. I'd always have, I'd had Twitter and I hated it, but I was off Instagram, off TikTok. he's like, you need it, so I hired a team. I was like, I'm not doing anything. Right.

I'm not going to make anything because I see how that makes you crazy. Yeah. If you work all day in a video and edit it and then it doesn't get engagement, you're depressed and I understand why. Right. But if they take a clip of something I did 10 years ago and put the joke up, it doesn't do well, I don't care at all. No, exactly.

And you don't have to post it or caption it. Exactly. Somebody else just does it. I don't even look at it. That one did well, that one didn't. Yeah. And it's crazy that a joke that I've slaved over them. I'm like, this is a brilliant joke.

Does not get the engagement of me telling Adam Ray that my least favorite sound is children blank. Right. Like that clip will get billions of views and all this engagement. And the jokes don't really do it. You have to just let that go. You got to let it go. This is what technology does. Because some of it literally is like the time of day that they posted it.

And what else was being posted? Like it literally, it's, yeah, you can't, you can't, there's no figuring it out so why. I try. But I definitely feel more famous now than I ever have because of the clips. Yeah. Like in 2013, I had a TV show. I had my first special. They're billboards.

The subway in New York is my picture everywhere. I felt like I don't know who you are, but I know you're famous. Like I get a picture. And that was weird to me. And now with the clips, it's flight attendants. Right. And I're like, I love your clips. And it's not even my account.

It's like other comedy accounts posting clips. Right. And it just comes up into your algorithm. I know. feels like, oh, I am, I'm a clip star. Yeah. That's a weird, a weird place to find yourself in your mid-40s. Yeah.

I mean, it's just all the same, really. It's just different ways of feeding it. Mm-hmm. But like my Comedy Central days, people don't even know they happened. It used to be like I was known for the roast. Yeah. And in the new special, I talk about roast stories. And I'm like, I roasted Donald Trump, Charlie Sheen, Roseanne.

And they don't know what I'm talking about. All the greats. Yeah, they don't know what I'm talking. They're like, when was this? Is it on Netflix? No, it's like only the Netflix specials have, like, have met anything. Yeah. It's funny.

It is really funny. Do you like the process of this of like when it's over of going back to the comedy store and noodling around? I like, I like writing the new stuff because it's like I get to start from scratch. You know, in the, in the, every special I build up like a mythology. Yeah. You know, I kill off a grandparent. You know, my mom's sick. You know, and the next special.

everyone's alive and well. You know, everyone's, no one's married. I can do whatever I want. And so I can really get into it. I've got like 40, 50 jokes to try out. Right.

But I'm going to keep, I'm going to wait until the end of the year. Uh-huh. And then just try to go up at like Largoe and see what I really have. Right. And then start to whittle it down and come up with a new. So how are you spending your time when you're not doing stand-up? Right now I've just been like resting.

Yeah. Like I got back a couple weeks ago. I had to jump right into press. Yeah. I'm doing this big. long profile with New York Magazine where like they came and talked to me before I went to Europe I had just gotten back from India with food poisoning oh no and I'm like dying what happened I just I went and did Australia which is a kick in the dick of just getting off that

flight and dealing with like a week of that jet lag yeah it was the shows were amazing yeah got to do Sydney Opera House oh wow and that was incredible like an incredible experience yeah God finally got to New Zealand after like the controversy from like 10, 15 years ago. Right. The shark party thing. What was the shark party thing? I did on my first TV show, Justelnik Offensive.

Right. I wanted to do a thing about how we kill like 100 million sharks a year. And sharks kill 10 people. But we fear sharks. So I'm like, when someone dies from a shark attack, we're going to celebrate it. And then bring up all these facts. And a guy from New Zealand got eaten. And we like, dude, I have like a shark dancers come out.

We do this big, big whole production. And then we showed the guy's picture at the end. And I was like, smile, you son of a bitch, shark party. And New Zealand went crazy. Like, they don't know who I am. So it was like the clip went out international. And they're like, what the fuck is this? This guy just died.

You're doing this. And so it was like a big deal for years. And then I finally went and performed. And I thought like, do I need security? And they're like, no, no, no. It was like three assholes who got mad. Like, we're happy you're here. Thanks for coming.

Did you feel it at the time? Did it feel like a thing? Like they, did you feel under attack? It felt like a thing where in America no one knew about it. No one cared. But my boss's bosses at Comedy Central were very upset. Viacom International is getting phone calls about this from New Zealand. And like, what the fuck?

Who did what? It was like no one knows I'm in trouble, but my bosses are mad. Right, right. You know, which it's like if you get in a fight with one of your friends and you can go complain to one of your other friends, you can get it off your chest. Right. But if you get in fight with one of your friends, they don't have any other friends in common. You're on your own. Right.

You know, get a therapist. Yeah. I was supposed to do New Zealand right. That was the last gig that was canceled before the pandemic. And I'd never been there before. I was so excited to finally go. I've never been to Australia. I was so excited to go.

And it was like the clock was just ticking. Like, I think I'm still going. I think I'm still going. I'm not going. Australia was great. New Zealand was great. I did Taipei, Hong Kong, and Tokyo. And they could not have cared less about a.

American comedy. Like the show was fun, but it was like you're doing thousands of people every night. And then it's like 400 people who are kind of just being polite. Oh yeah. I was like, okay. I don't know if I'll do this again. Yeah. And then India was crazy. So what happened with the food poisoning? Everyone's very careful with me. Like it's like the promoter is like, I'm going to be with you with every meal to make sure you do not get sick. You got to be very careful here. And then like the last day, they're like, do whatever you want. But I'm like, I still have these flights. You know, I'm so tired. Yeah. And I ate, I believe it was like the one thing I ate on my own was just like a sandwich I got room service, like the day of the last show.

Room service. Yeah. And it was a nice hotel. Yeah. It was like a lamb sandwich or something. Oh, no. And I just didn't feel right. And then the flight back.

Oh, no. It's like a five hour flight. And we finished the last show. We got two hours. Yeah. They make a seat with them again, Thai food. And it was great. And then go to the airport at like four in the morning, fly to Dubai.

and then Dubai to America. And I am throwing up the whole flight. And I'm in, I got like the really nice seat, like the extra, the extra night. Yes. So I got the booth. And it's like. On the Emirates?

Yeah. And it's the guy, the flight attendant being like, hey, we can't offer you any anti-nage medicine, because I don't have enough time left on the flight. But I just want to say I'm a big fan. And I'm like trying to hold down toast. Like, this is pure hell. Oh, just throwing up the whole way. he couldn't hold down water.

I'm like, I know I'm dehydrated. I got home and got an IV. And then for like two weeks, I was just like out of it. Out of it. After all, that was like your last international stop? Then I had a month to recover and then I went to Europe. And Europe was easier because it was like every other day was a show. Right.

Whereas in, you know, Asia it was like a week to do this one show. And you're like, it's typhoon season in Taipei. I'm just sitting in a hotel like waiting for this show. that they, I don't think they needed me over there. Oh, it's brutal. I baked you this bread, by the way. You did? You baked it?

Yeah, this morning. Because the last time you gave me a loaf, you would bought and it was delicious. Yeah. This will probably be better. I believe it. Is it sourdough? Yeah. Because my new thing, it's not my new thing is beans and toast.

Oh, it's good. I go to the farmer's market. I get a couple dozen eggs. I get a loaf of sourdough. And I get like the beans. like the special breakfast beans. People don't know about it. It's like it's in tomato sauce.

It's just Heinz. Yeah, the Heinz. And you put that on some toast and it's so fucking good. So good. That's how I've been like trying to put my weight back on that I will definitely cut this up and and eat with. That makes me very happy. Eat it with the bread.

Yeah, we got to fatten you up a little. Yeah, you were thin. Not on attractively. But I noticed just as your friend, you were thin. I got it. It was like I was losing weight and like I felt good because I was dealing with back issues. the whole tour. We're sitting up like this was pure hell.

It's the worst position to be. That's the killer of travel. And so I would get off the plane and I would have to lay down on my hotel bed like the whole day. Yeah. And then do the show. When I was on stage, great.

And sitting down was miserable for the first like three quarters of the tour. And I started to feel the weight coming off and I felt a little better, you know? And then all of a sudden we were like a week before the special and people are like, are you sick? And I'm like, fuck, I lost that much weight. Like I didn't know it got that bad.

Yeah. But on camera, you know. Yeah. Yeah, you still look fat. Yeah. We'd like to thank the good people at Quince for sponsoring today's program. If you spend a lot of time cooking at home, it's time to elevate your game. When your cookware actually feels good to use and is thoughtfully made and looks beautiful on your counter,

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Now available in Canada, too. That's Quince, Q-U-I-N-C-E. dot com slash papa pa pa for free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash papa here's a trick for travel which my sister told me and it seems to work from my body at least when you are done traveling you're sitting like this the whole time uh lie down on the floor the hard floor for 15 minutes not the bed because it's just still inside some give. Just lay on the flat floor

and it kind of will adjust your back. I'll try that. Yeah. I'll try that. It's not too bad. I've had every kind of chiropractor, every kind of Pilates instructor. And like, you don't realize, you know when you get like a good one? You're like, oh, I've been with a fucking idiot for the last year. It's like, has been like hurting me. And this woman knows what she's doing or this chiropractor butchered me.

Did the thing where he like pulls the leg. Oh, God. And it hurt. And then it like never, it was like my hip was out of joint. It sucks so bad. You ever read the Dr. Sarno book? Everyone talks about it. I just talked to someone who just read it and was like, this actually really helped me.

And I believe in it, but it was just, like I grind my teeth at night, and that's what leads to everything. You know, it's like I've gotten as hard as I can, and then it just goes down through everything else. It's also the same source as the Sarno's saying. It's all your anger and rage. But I'm worried if I don't have my anger in my jaw,

where's it coming out? out because I'm a pretty chill guy. Well, the cool thing about it is that you don't have to solve it. You just have to recognize it. It's basically that your brain, if your brain, your brain doesn't want to deal with other problems. So it's like, but I can deal with my jobbing. I can focus on that. And once you just, your brain just recognizes, oh, I can't lift my arm because I have tension.

And it's decreasing the blood flow. And that's creating the problem. Just recognizing it. What I like about that book is that it's caused so many fights. I know. Like, my back is really hurting. It's all in your head. I know.

Read this book. It's all in your head. You're dumb. I know. I was like, no, no, no. I was in such pain. I was at the comedy cellar. I couldn't not lift my carry on over the...

It was that bad. And Greg Rogel at the comedy seller tells me, have you read this Sarno book? I'm like, no, I never heard of it. It was eight years ago or something. And he's like, I'm telling you, it really helps. It's in your brain. And Noam, the owner of the comedy seller,

that's horseshit. That does, there's nothing to, oh, you're just thinking about it. Well, you, if you're in an accident, you know, there's a pain. Rogel fights back. You don't know what you're talking about, you son of a bitch.

The biggest fight I'd ever seen to the comedy seller over this book, the two of the gnome's saying, you're full of shit. Rochelle's saying stop belittling me and saying, I don't know what I'm talking about. And they almost came to blows. I believe it. Yeah.

I can see this. And I can see it going either way. Either one pushing the book and either one telling them the other, it's an idiot. Like either way. Yeah. Well, anyway, it helped me. And maybe it is psychological, but I keep it in my bag because it's this thin. I just keep it in my bag.

And it's almost like a talisman. It's like, I just seeing that, I won't have back trouble. I'm going to have to, I'll have to read that book. Yeah. It's just a little pamphling. Just kind of like flip through it. Yeah. You know, over time it might have something.

We do a thing on this program called an uncomfortable moment. Sure. I know you don't mind uncomfortable moments. You talk a lot in your special about not liking children. And you talk about it a lot to the point where we really think that it's true. and but our Cracker Jack staff went out and dug up a couple photos. This first one, it seems like this is you working at a summer camp. Do you do this in the off season?

I don't know who Photoshopped that, but... What do you mean? They put in two extra kids. What? Yeah, that is me at a summer camp for kids about to get molested. Oh, wow. They don't even know it's coming. I mean, there are pictures of me with children on the internet that you could find.

With like nieces and nephews and godchildren, but you went that route. And what about this route? I guess is this community theater? I guess when you're off from stand up and you're quote unquote working on jokes, is this you and Annie? Is that Annie? That's me in the movie, Annie, with the original cast. of the movie and I'm just walking through the scene.

I guess. Yeah. Again, great job, guys. The scale there is better. So do you really want children of your own? I do not. I'm very happy. I've made it to a point in my life where I'm just thrilled I made it.

There's always that like, oh, hey, here's a surprise. You know, let's see, we can deal with it. And now it's like, yeah, it's not going to happen. I could imagine what would have to come into my life that I'd be like, oh yeah, let's do this. And I love my nieces and nephews. I love my godchildren. I'm interested in their lives.

But the lack of fear that I have, that I assume all parents must have. Oh, God. It's not something that I feel like I'm missing out on or that I worry about. Like, I get it. I get wanting to have a kid and I get being obsessed with your kid

and wanting all of that. Yeah. But I don't, I don't, I don't, it's not something that keeps me up at night. The fear would keep you up at night. And my daughters are older than 19 and 22. And I was talking with my daughter yesterday on the phone. She's in New York.

And we had a conversation. Then I called her back. She was on her way home, she said. And I hear, she picks up, she goes, hello? And I hear in the background subway chatter. And I hear a guy go, who's that pretty? And the phone goes off. Who's that pretty?

boop and I don't I do the find my friends and I can't she hasn't moved like the phone hasn't left the station and for two hours

I'm just like not telling my wife how worried I am and her phone died and she went to the movies yeah always always but yeah

and that's like a rational fear but even just waking up in the morning like where are they what are they doing Like, what did I sleep last night? Like, that fear, I think, never goes away.

And I do not. Yeah. I do not envy people who have that. Yeah. You still have your dog? Still have my dog. Nice. And the dog is like, that's how I know I don't want kids because the dog is going to,

the dog's almost five years old. And he's one of those dogs that lives to like 18, 19 years old that I'm like, oh, like, I can't really travel until this dog does. You know, there's no way I'm giving him up. I have a full-time assistant I got for the road. that they can watch the dog while I'm gone. Oh, nice. Because he can't go to a kennel.

He can barely go to a vet. You know, he's one of those where he's just, like, terrified. Because he's too smart. I think it's smart. And it's, I think that there's, the vet has told me that those dogs that come from Korea, that, like, they get rescued and then shipped over here are always very nervous and scared. And I get it. I mean, putting a crate and put underneath a jet on the way from Korea to L.A.

It's got to be, uh, he's got to fuck you up. But he's a special guy. Yeah. So I've got a, I've got a, I've got a, lot to deal with. Like, if someone wants to come to my place, come over to my condo, I have to get the assistant has to take the dog and get them out because he'll just, he's too protective. Oh, really? So I've got like, I amassed all this art during the pandemic where I got really into art and no one has seen it. Like no one has seen any of it. You can't come to your house.

Yeah. And then I had the reporter from the New York Magazine came over. I had the dog get out and she's looking at the art and she's like, why do you have this? Why do you have this? All this art's like, fucked up. It's like a picture of like a baby that looks like it's falling down the stairs. I'm like well that's just funny. It's like it looks a funny picture. It's like well this one's like a fire escape collapsing and I'm like this was a Pulitzer Prize winning photograph. It's like

yeah but they're about to die. And I'm like yeah but it's still beautiful and like this one's a woman breastfeeding and she's smoking a cigarette and I'm like yeah but it's like you know it's like an anti-demisticity and she's like writing up all this down and I'm like some of these were gifts. I have other rooms in the house that have like water

towers and shit like it's like it's not all all this horrifying art, but I do like that stuff. I do enjoy. A clown with a tear coming down. I don't know if you're an art guy. I went in and I started getting like, I'm working with the Deach Gallery. I bought a couple pieces.

And so now they get in touch with me and they're like, you've got to see this new artist, you got to see this guy. And I'll check things out. I just like to look at art. Yeah. And I'm in there and like, oh, this is a 24 year old.

He's up and coming. And I'm looking at this. I'm like, that's interesting. And I'm like, what's this? And I'm like, oh, this was a picture of a Jewish costume party where this is a, photo was used to try to show that the Jews were in the occult during World War II. And I'm like, what? I'm like, what's this? And like, that was eugenics where they were measuring the heads of

Jewish children, Aryan children, too. And I'm like, tell me more about this artist. And like, he's 24. He's really like, and I'm like, I think you're showing me anti-Semitic art. Like, I don't believe that he's trying to say something about this. Like, I need to get the fuck out of here. hear. Because at first glance, you're like, oh, that's cool. It looks weird in gothic. And it's like, oh, no, no, no, no. This guy is saying something that you don't want to hear. Ew, that is creepy. Yeah. Man, oh, man. Because you hear those famous authors where you're like, oh, they were famously anti-Semitic. And it's like, okay, I can still read War I'm Peace. You know, I don't know who, like if Tolstoy

was or whoever, but, but when it's real art like that, I can't, I can't get behind some weirdo. Gunter Gras, you know that German writer? I know the name. He wrote The Rat and a couple other things. And then it came out at the end of his life that he might have been in the Nazi party. And he was like, you know, big award-winning writer. And movies, like if you hear like someone's in trouble, you know, like I'll watch Woody Allen. I don't, you know, I couldn't read any more of his books.

I couldn't. It was, it's, because I think a book is so immersive. Yeah. You're so in there. it was like Nazi. You can't stop thinking about it every time you're No. Finish a sentence.

No. Yeah, I read Woody Allen's autobiography, his latest book. Yeah. And was like, yeah. Like, I'm, I'm team Woody. I'm in there. And then that documentary came out with the daughter in it. And I was like, oh, yeah.

I'm just going to not talk about this anymore. Yeah. I know. It's, yeah. That when, yeah, well, they went to lie detectors. and he's like that Ian Edwards joke. You know that Ian Edwards joke? Michael Jackson.

So good. It's so good. The best compliment I can give someone is I wish I had thought of that joke. Yeah. I've told him that to his face. Yeah. It's so good. I will never watch that documentary.

Yeah. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen the Doc of the Woody talk. No. Does your taste in movies and stuff skew darker? Yes, if I can find it. It's just harder to find now the way the movie business is. is that everything is, if not a Marvel movie,

then designed for that broad audience. You know, but I like, there was a movie that came out this year. Have you heard of The Coffee Table? No. The Coffee Table is a Spanish, dark horror comedy movie. Uh-huh. Where, and I'm going to spoil this for you. Okay.

Because, as a parent, you will never want to watch it. Okay. But a mom and dad come home, they have a brand new baby. mom goes out they're about to entertain company mom goes out husband has an accident drops the baby

baby dies he just puts the baby back in the crib he's in shock and then people come over for the party and they're like where's the baby where's the baby?

He's like wait let the baby sleep you know and so the comedy comes from people just being like all joyous and not knowing what's happening

but for an hour and a half it is insanely tense insanely tense that that was like my movie of the year. That was like my absolute favorite, but most things are, like I like the substance. Yeah. I liked Maxine this year. Right. What about older films? Older films, I mean, it depends on how old. You know, but older classic kind of old,

40s old. I can watch them and enjoy them for what they are. Yeah. I don't know how really dark they get, especially when they had, back then they had like the code. Yeah. They had to go by and everything. you couldn't really show a lot of stuff. It's more like fate, you know, gets me. But one of the best movies of the year wasn't dark at all, which was, who was the Japanese film? Vim Vendors directed it.

Anybody? Yeah, let me look it up. I know what you're talking about. Exuma? No. Perfect day? Perfect day. Yeah, perfect day is like you'll be,

you'll just be watching this movie and then you will just cry your eyes out at the end. end. Really? It is a beautiful movie, not sad, but just about life. Wow. That was incredible. So I like movies that kind of off the beaten path, but I can't take the, you know,

newest movie of the week. It's just, it's, now it's made for a global audience. I know. And so you have to take off all the edges, even in the dialogue. The dialogue is simplified and I just, I can't, show me, like, I'd rather see an interesting failure. I'd rather watch Megalopolis, which I probably will not do, than watch some of these movies that are coming on. I saw him on Colbert talking about it. It made, it, it was intriguing.

In what way? Just that he was trying to do something, that he was just trying to do something beyond what he had built his career on. And listen, that's great. Okay, like, and I, I applaud you for doing that. Yeah. But you could also make it good. Yeah. You know, and I heard it, if it was like, hey, this is good, but it's not you, it's like, okay, that's fine. Right here it is, Terrible. People who, like, want to go in and see, like, did you ever see Boas afraid? No. It's insane.

It's a fucking insane. It's like a three-hour panic attack. Three and a half hours. I saw it in IMAX. And I loved every second of it because it was just bat shit that it was in theaters at all, much less than IMAX. And I was, like, walked out and being like, I can't recommend this to anyone, but I loved it. Yeah.

And I don't think Megalopolis is going to be the same time of thing. No. No, there's literally not one person saying a nice thing. Not one. I know. Not one. It's brutal. You talk in this special about cancel culture.

And what's so nice is that, like all of your jokes, they're so great because of the economy of words. And it was so nice to see that subject, which has been talked about ad nauseum. In just two lines, sum up exactly. you, it was perfect. I mean, talking about cancel culture has become so hack. Yeah. And people who have no fear of cancel culture are complaining about it. Yeah.

That I think it sickens me. And I think people want common to be dangerous. I want coming to be dangerous. And if you can't get in trouble, it's not dangerous. Right. So complaining about cancel culture is just saying you want to take all of the danger out of it and you want it to be easy for you. Right.

Then I think as soon as I say it, you know, people cheer. Yeah. And this journalist was like, do you think, why do you think people are cheering? Do you think they believe either you're about to talk about cancel culture? Do you think they, like, are sick of cancel culture? And I'm like, no, no, no, they're way more savvy than that. They've seen the first 40 minutes at the special. They know I'm not suddenly turning into Ricky Jervais.

Right. Like, they get that I'm about to subvert this in some way. Yeah. But I hate people complaining about cancel culture. I hate comics complaining in general. It's the second comedy boom. It's not going anywhere. people make more money than ever before

and Dave Chappelle, who's won every award in the world, is complaining that cancel culture is making his job harder. It's like your job shouldn't be easy. If you're going to make that much fucking money, like, hey, maybe it should be a little hard. I got no, I got no issue with that. I love that line. Your comedian,

do your job. It's just so perfect. Yeah. Really. You have the great line about just shitty comics trying to just trying to get on Rogan by saying that you're fighting this cause it's like what's the cause it's become like it's i think it's kind of group think and it become i'm surprised that i'm attacked by saying cancel culture is not a thing that people that just not parroting what every

other comic is saying would somehow be seen as treasonous and not as an individual like i have my own thoughts right exactly and i would be way more successful and i I'd have way more money if I did complain about cancel culture. If I went the other way that a lot of these guys go. And I just, I think it's stupid and I'm happy to fight about it. Yeah. I think it's good for comedy. When two comics are at odds,

are talking shit on each other. I think it's good for the art form. Yeah. But now everyone's got to be friends. Right. You've got to worry about what Joe thinks about, about these things. Yeah. And have Joe mediate fights.

And I like Joe, but I don't get the whole, like stand-up comedy. I got into it because you get to do it by yourself. You go on stage alone. Yeah, with your audience. Yeah. So these like, well, let's get a group together. I just, I never, I never understood it. I know.

I'm the same way. I have a real hard time with it. I don't want to be a part of a club. No. And what's so ironic is that if you, if you not, if you're not in step with every aspect of what they're talking about, then they kick you out. Well, how anti-comedy is that? Yeah.

You're a pussy because you don't think the way we all think. It's like how is that? Yes, exactly. Shouldn't that be celebrated for thinking differently? Exactly. Is that the point of comedy? Yeah. Is to think differently from everyone else?

Yeah. Isn't that why we're all friends in the first place? Because we think differently. Yeah. It's strange, it's strange, but, you know, it'll change. Yeah. It was cool also to see the audience response to it. I was thinking in the first mention when you just say cancel culture, or let's talk about cancel culture.

I forget how you said it. And there is a little. applause. I guess this is what the journalist... I'm against cancel culture. I'm against cancel culture. Yeah. And there is an applause.

And I was trying to interpret the... I watched it twice because that part just to see... It's them playing along. We maybe even sweetened it because people know what I'm doing, but you'll get a little... In some places, I had to like yell it three times. Yeah. To get the cheer and then be like, all right. And occasionally you get it right away.

Right. Like, oh, great. And then it feels stupid. Yeah. I didn't know if it was segment of the audience that, was just used to cheering against it, against cancer culture. I think it's because I yell it. You know, I talk so in the same tone that if I like yell something, it gets your attention.

Like, oh, I'm supposed to clap here. Right. This is important that I, that I clap for this. Right, right. Yeah, but I can't believe that they think I'm really about to start complaining about you can't say anything anymore. Yeah. Because everyone who's saying that is saying it into a microphone for millions of people.

I know. Like, which is wild. Like, when comics talk about freedom of speech, Like, you're censoring us by saying that we shouldn't joke about. Like, everyone has freedom of speech. Yeah. Everyone in the country. No one buys a ticket to hear how free your speeches.

Like, they want to hear you laugh and do an act. Yeah. But I never got that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are real world consequences for things that you say. You can, you know, I had a show canceled off of one joke. and but that was because my joke was in my act and this was a corporate run entity that was a news

organization and they had a problem with this one joke and they stripped the whole project and so there is a canceling that happened there sure but it's totally my choice of whether or not I talk about these things yeah you know yeah I mean you can't do you can't have everything. Right. You know, like I'll get it. Like, oh, Anthony's a liberal because he wants to work in Hollywood. I don't work in Hollywood.

Yeah, exactly. I've never been in a movie. I've never been in a TV show. No one will ever use me to advertise any product. Like, that's just, all my jokes are about dead babies. Like, there's no way I'm making any extra money. This is just what I do. These are the thoughts that I have.

The idea that I'm trying to somehow insinuate myself with Hollywood is hilarious to me. Because, like, they're not high. They can't. When I was shopping the special around, I had a meeting with one streaming service that was like, we're getting into it. We're doing this. And I was like, great.

You should start with me. I said Netflix didn't start with Chappelle. They started with Bill Bear. Like, get my specials got newsworthy stuff. Clips are going to go viral. Like, use me. People are going to talk about it. And you got something like, great, great.

And they went and saw it that weekend. And they go, we can't. We just can't. We can't open with this. We can't even bid on it. We can't do it. Like, we can't do anything. And I was like, thanks for telling us.

me like I'm not mad yeah yeah like if you would like if you had gone down the road yeah and then said actually we got to lose this one thing then I'm furious but if you just say hey we can't then great yeah like I was doing when I was going through Asia I was going to do a show in Singapore and right like a week before that like actually the government came back with your transcript and here's what you can't say and it was just highlighted and it was a lot well yeah for me it was a lot where I'm like I can't work around this yeah we have to cancel the show but the idea of going into Singapore punk rock would be wild to me. Like to be like, you know what?

Fuck it. Let's just go and see what happens. Like, I'm not doing that to those people. No. Yeah. I did Dubai once. And in Dubai they have a safe zone in the town square. And like within the zone, there's more freedom to say what you want to say.

And even that was highly restrictive. Like, you know, outside. to a couple had gotten arrested boyfriend, girlfriend, for holding hands on the street, like, as we were landing, you know? And so, like, their freedom was not anywhere. It was just like, I want to go home. I'd like to go home. So I don't, I don't have to, they don't need to hear my take on nipples. I was going to do Dubai once. I was on tour with Chris Rock. It was 2018, something like that, 17. And we got Dubai on the schedule. And then, like, we're worried about Dubai. My agent tells me. I'm like, what do you mean? Like, what are you worried about? Yeah. And we're already going to get in trouble and get arrested. And I was like, well, tell me what I can't say. I'm only doing 12 minutes opening for him.

Like, I can adjust and then like, we don't know. That, like, everyone in Dubai is breaking the law at all times and just like, who gets reported on, who do they decide? That's right. You can flick off a cab driver and spend 20 years in jail. You just don't know what's going to happen. And I'm like, well, what is Chris going to do? And I go, Chris Rock can do whatever he wants.

You can't. And I go, you never should have told me that. Because now I feel like I have to go do this. then Chris canceled Dubai. Oh, he did. And I was like, thank God. Like, I don't need to, I don't want to be, like, I want to be welcomed wherever I am. Yeah.

I don't want it to be like, oh, he's like, I leave. I don't want people to get in trouble for being at my show. Right. You know, it's not that, it's not that kind of thing. Yeah. It's a funny thing that, because you're so defined as being talking about dead babies or whatever that people, expect what they expect. They know what they're getting, you know, except for the streamer on that day one.

Yeah. So you kind of like can can live in that and everyone has that expectation. Like, because my comedy is so family oriented and I talk about family and stuff, I almost have more to lose by pushing a little bit because my audience is like, why are you talking about that? Oh yeah. You have to be, you know what I mean? And I, I mean, I follow your your career and your act. And I, when you get edgy, it's a different kind of of edgy, but I know what you, I know it's like, it's just as edgy is what I'm doing. Only you do it in a palatable way. Like, your joke about dropping your last daughter off at college and how difficult it is to pretend you're sad.

Right. That is a dark joke. The audience goes nuts because they're like, yes, we get rid of our kids. But it's like your version of it. No one's getting hurt in that joke, but it is like a, it's not nice. Right. You know, it's not like a nice thing. Yeah.

Did you ever do a thing where, because Gaffigan has talked about this. a long time ago where he said, Gaffigan was like, I love dark jokes. You know, but I also like telling jokes about bacon. And you can't do both. Right. You know, so I had to choose, do I go light or do I go dark? Yeah.

And I'm like, I chose dark. I can't go, I can't joke about bacon. Right. You know, ever. I can have some kind of silly jokes, but I think about dark. Did you ever have that where you were like, I would, because you obviously like dark jokes.

Mm-hmm. But did you ever think like by going this so family-oriented, I have to leave that behind? Or do you try to kind of bring them together? Yeah, no, I knew that family, like when I was first starting and to be at the cellar following Atel and Nick Topolo and I was like, oh, I've got to, I've got to be dark. You know, this is the, I got to, and this is the beginning of my career. And I, even, I don't live that way. I'm not that.

So to pretend that I was, the audience is like, we just met you, but we're not buying. Yeah, we don't get it. Yeah, what are you doing? Yeah. And so I just decided not to watch anybody and just talk about what I wanted to talk about. And that's when it all started to click. When I no longer, at that period, I wouldn't watch a tell before he went on. I wouldn't watch anybody.

I just stay in my bubble with blinders on and just talk the way I want to talk. Now, is there any comic you watch now? Like, and not just before you're set, but like, is there anyone that you watch, they're special? But you're like, are you just trying to stay out of it? and do your own thing. Because that's fascinating. Now I can watch people. Now I can watch because I'm so, I'm 30 years in, I know what I, it's not going to alter

or change anything. Like I like to watch specials because it makes me think like, oh, here's how I would do this. Like the first 15 minutes of my new special is a trans bit that is a direct response to Dave Chappelle, like a direct. You know, there's certain things that are like, I saw a comic do this. That means I'm doing this. Right, right.

But while I'm on tour, I don't really watch things. I'm afraid I'm going to see a joke. Yeah. It's too much like mine. I don't want to deal with it. But I'll watch a lot now. Right. But I want to stay away from the scene of it all.

Like things, especially in the podcast arena, will make me mad. And it's like, why do I even know about this? Yeah. Why do I even? I don't have to know. I know. I want to just get away from what the rest of, and just show up at the store, show up at Largo, show up at the improv and just do my set.

Yeah. And watch specials, but then just get out of there and not worry about whatever else is doing. Because I think I'd be happier. You'd be happier and I think your work is better. I think your work is more unique if you don't. I love comedy. You know, my radio show, I'm dealing with comics all the time. So I'll check out what they're doing and stuff.

But yeah, there's that you really kind of have to live on your own. You have to be on your own to create something that's unique and original. I mean, things will make me mad in comedy that I've gotten over. I've almost like taken my time where it's like, you know, the new crowdwork thing, where everyone's doing crowdwork and they're filming everything and they're putting it up right away. I'm like, this, I've stopped doing crowdwork altogether. You should take questions at the end of my set and now I don't because I'm like, I hate this so much. And then I realized I'm old.

Like, I'm old and the new generation has to do this. Yeah. So just leave it alone. Yeah. You know, it's not much the older guys doing it. It's like, this is what they have to do to get. Like to get viral and to get the attention. Whereas before it's like, just get in with Comedy Central.

Right. You know, just keep doing their showcases. Right. You'll get there one day. Yeah. When now it's this. I'm like, okay, let me let that go. Yeah.

And not be, not be mad about it. Yeah. It takes a while. Yeah. And it's interesting because I know really successful comics who will call me and bitch about the trends at times. These are very successful people. And it always, it always surprised me they were even paying attention.

Mm-hmm. But there is, but, you know, if you're in the NFL, you're going to watch what other people are doing. You know, like, you got to keep an eye on it to some degree, I guess. I think it's just so much money in it that you can't avoid it. And there's some things that I think are very strange. And so I'm happy to be called a hater. But there's someone who gets like just out of nowhere, gets super famous. Uh-huh.

Okay. And all these comics, friends of ours are like, want to have them on the podcast, sit down and be like, you've always been such a hard worker. it's so great to see. And it's like, how about you give that person the same energy you gave them before they got famous? They haven't changed at all other than now they have a huge following. You didn't think there were anything before. And all of a sudden, you're just like amazing what you're doing.

You're so great at it. And it's like, that to me is weird. But that's just the money that's involved. You kind of have to absorb that and make a part of your brand. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I do feel like I should, just for curiosity's sake,

look at people who are younger. There are definitely, like, there is a stratus of young comics who I have no idea who they are. No, it's so hard to find an opener when I'm going on tour again, because I'm like, who is... I know.

I think it's being out of the loop of that. Oh, yeah. And in a good way. It's like you're at the story. I don't want to hang out with, like, the 20-year-olds. Like, I can't get involved in your drama. So on this first, in this tour, when I go to clubs, I'm like, I'm going to let the clubs pick. I'm going to go by myself.

Yeah. Just show up and the club's going to pick. And I said, I want a female opener and a female MC. Right. You're great. And the first club, they took me to San Jose Improv, the two girls hated each other. Like, had some beef. And I didn't know this going in, but I can tell this attention in the green room.

I'm like, whatever. MC goes up, does great. Middle act goes up and bombs. Where I'm like, fuck. I'm like, guys. I'm going to pay them both the same, but you got to flip them. Yeah. Like have the girl at one MC, and that caused a meltdown.

Oh, no. But then I had to fire the girl who had gotten demoted, and it was like a huge thing in the scene where it was like rumors of like sexual favors to do. And I'm like, oh, my God. Now I'm bringing, I'm not just bringing an emce, a feature act. I'm bringing an MC. So I don't have to deal with their bullshit anymore. It gets, it's terrifying having to find the new young kids.

And now, have you heard of clowning? No. Clowning is the new fucking thing where, like, stand-up comedy is hack now. Oh, God. Jokes are hacked. Uh-huh. You got to do clowning where you go up and you just, like, tell people the worst thing it's ever happened to you for 10 minutes. It sounds so bad.

It sounds so bad. And places like the Elysian theater, it's like that's what they want to do. That's, like, all the new kids coming up want to be, want to do clowns. Wow. And they're like, you'll get a half hour show at Edinburgh one year. Right. But it's all about, like, there's no joke. It's just your deepest dark as shit

And I can't believe it's a thing Yeah, I know And my knee-jerk reaction is, well, that's not comedy But maybe it is for them It's all right, let them do it The argument of what is and what isn't comedy Isn't that comedy? Are you standing on stage with a microphone?

It's comedy. Maybe you're not laughing. Maybe it's not good. But I don't know why you need to gatekeep What is and isn't stand up. Yeah, exactly. That's just you trying to make yourself feel okay. What I'm doing still relevant, right?

You know what I mean? We do another thing on this program. Is it as good as that the Photoshop thing? Who's in charge, by the way, of you too? Who did the Photoshop? Neither of them. Yeah, unfortunately. It's an outside source.

I would believe that you did it yourself. I didn't. My daughter in Brooklyn, who I thought got attacked on the train. She did it. What is she studying? Photoshop. This is called a taste test. I spend a lot of time baking this for you,

and I got home from the store last night, and then this morning I put it in. But we also tried garbage together that we find at 7-Eleven. Okay. And today we would like to try, I don't know, if you have these at home, this is a bugle,

Tabasco-flavored bugle. Look, I'm a fan of the bugle, and in Europe, somewhere along the line, there were chocolate-covered bugles. They weren't called chocolate-covered bugles. It was something else, you know what? It doesn't have enough bugle.

It's all covered in chocolate, so you're just eating chocolate with a little crunch that I'm looking forward to a Tabasca bugles. This is not a bad... All right, good. I'm glad you're excited about it.

I love, you know, being on the road and stopping in weird places. Ooh, weird smell. Yes, do you get the Tabasco smell? Uh-huh. Right now I'm getting all bugle. Yeah, you got like a spicy aftertaste,

but it's just bugle. At the end. Oh, at the end. It's growing at the end. That's hot. You know, I prefer it as the regular bugle. Uh-huh. This makes me want to have regular bugles,

a little Tabasco thing, and just a little dip. Yeah. You know? It's too chemically of the Tabasco. Mm-hmm. They're just messing with the heat, but it doesn't have that little flavor. But yet, I've eaten four in a row.

Not bad. Yeah, tell your daughter, good job on these. My daughter had nothing to do with that part. Okay. What school she's going to? She went to Basser. Oh, nice. And now she's an adult in New York, finding her way.

You know Dave Hill? Yeah. Comedian Dave Hill. I'm directing his off-Broadway show, and she's helping with that. Oh, cool. She's getting into it, building her tribe, finding her friends. Who are your friends, your early friends? My friends, early friends, kind of out here, because I came, I was at the

New York or L.A., but I thought L.A. I can live with no money better than New York. New York was scary. Yeah. So I came here. I'm sweating, by the way, from the bugle. It's okay. Sweat it out, man. Thanks. Lizzes calories. My friends were like open micers who now no longer do it. You know, if I see them, it's like an awkward thing of like, you know, you made it. Like, we didn't. We're almost going on. And then I moved to New York for like two or three years to write on Falun. And my friends were kind of like the people who were coming up at my level. A lot of people from Chicago.

Like Camel Najiani, T.J. Miller, John Malaney, you know, Pete Holmes, guys like that. And they all moved to L.A. around the same time I did it. Now, like, I never see any of those people. They've either, like, been canceled and are gone back in New York or they're movie stars. Right. And they're always going off and doing some crazy thing. You don't get to see your friends unless you're at a comedy festival. And even now, most of my friends don't just stand.

up the way that I do. You know, like for doing a two-year tour is like, this is my life. Yeah. I don't have other side projects. It's like, this is the thing that I have to make as much money as I can because then it's three years before I can work again. Right. Yeah. My other friends are doing TV stuff and producing and writing and all kinds of like different things. Do they come to you at all with TV things? Do people ever like, or just like, like I could see you being like a role in like a cool film or Like that kind of stuff I would be happy to If someone was like

Hey we want you for this part I'm happy to show up And I can do a good job Yeah Auditioning is not my thing No The last audition I ever went on Yeah

Was for New Girl For Schmidt And the guy goes And they're like This is gonna be a big show It's gonna be a big hit show They want to this one part Come check it on

And everyone's reading for Schmidt Right You know And the guy they got is great But they go Anthony that was great Can you do it faster This is a sitcom

I know your timing, but if you can do it faster, and I go, no. Like, I know what makes me funny. I know the funniest way I can say this. If you want it done differently, get someone different. Have you ever been auditioning for something and you're imagining the person who should get the job? Oh, yeah. Like, that's when you know you're not getting it. Every one.

That's when you know it's not happening. Unless I'm like, this is for me. And that's like the director's going to be like, Anthony, I want you for this. Then I'm there. I'm happy to do it. Yeah. But I'm not going to, like, chase it down. Even like seeing Mark Maren's success now.

I was just going to say, Mark. He was like, I'm going to do this. And you could see the early ones where it's not as good. And then all of a sudden it clicks for him, like around the time of glow. Yeah. And now he's just like an actor. Yeah. Oh, you're putting in great performances.

Yeah. And if I could get there, sure, but I don't want to do. Yeah. I don't want to take the class. Right. You know, I'm not doing the exercises. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but it seems like you're such a distinct voice.

It could easily be. I thought I would do voice work, you know, and no one's ever. come to me for that. Hosting is still a thing that kind of comes up here and there. I hosted like a pilot for Comedy Central where they were like, we need to make something,

you know, would you do with this pilot where I'm kind of like the judge. It's like a roast games thing and I'm just the judge. This is very easy. Even then I was like, is it worth it? Yeah. Like is it worth sitting up here

this cheesy thing? Like it just felt weird that I think even those days are over. Yeah. Just of like taking something for the paycheck. I know. And you just would rather not do it. Yeah, I know.

Those are really, they're difficult. Especially now that comedians have so much freedom. It's like you don't have to do a game show. Like, you used to have to do that to survive. Yeah. And now it's like, no, you can kind of just build your own little company and go do what you want to do. Yeah. It's almost dumb to have a TV show.

Yeah, I know. You're losing, you know, viewership. Yeah, I know. These comics that would end up with a big show on network TV, not playing themselves. and their comedy career just disappears. Or it's a thing now where I've heard of this, I don't know, like it was like a big time actor, gets an offer from Netflix.

Be the star of the show, 10 episode first season. But he's like, I can't take it. Because they're not paying me enough. There's no residuals. Right. And it's 10 episodes. And then I can't work for a year. Yeah.

And I've got to wait. And if they pick it up, then I can't work on anything else. Yeah. And it used to be 25 episodes. Yeah. You know, and now it's 10 that doesn't seem like an industry that I'm even trying to break into.

I know. I've had friends who have written movies, written a movie, and then taken 10 years to get financing. And then the studio comes in and changes the casting. Yeah. And it's fucked up and it's like,

you spent 10 years of your life on this. I know. And it got ruined by the most random thing. Like, why would I give up the control I have as a stand-up comedian? I do like the idea of getting an idea for a film and doing it in six months. You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm. You could do that? Yeah. Do it all yourself, Tyler Perry? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was hoping you would do it and put me in it. You're at that level now.

The level of like, I hope my friends put me in something. I'm offer only with my friends. Okay. I see. Were you in unfrosted? No. No. Congratulations.

Thank you. Yeah, I got out of that one. I was like when I was upset that they were following Orney Adams around for comedian for the documentary. at the time I was like, I should be the guy they follow, shouldn't they? And then when it came out, I was like, oh, thank God. Jerry Seinfeld wrote me a very nice Instagram DM. I had said, because when I say 20 years of stand-up comedy, it's 22 now, I go by the day that the movie comedian came out in theaters. because I walked. It was playing in a theater near where I was living in L.A.

And I walked to see it at noon on opening day. And I was like, got it. I had done a couple open mics and was terrified. I was like, this is what you just go up and fail and you keep doing it. And you go up and fail and keep doing it. And I put out a thing being like 22 years ago today. And it was the poster of comedian. I saw this movie in theaters and I left the theater a comedian.

And he wrote to be like, thank you for, you know, talking to the movie. I really appreciate it. Like always been a fan. Wow, that's great. Yeah. Yeah, it was really cool. That was cool. Yeah.

That was, people really, comics have a real fondness for that. And especially at a certain age, like they really hit them at just the right moment. You're just finding it. When a young comic comes as to what advice do you have, I'd just say watch the movie comedian. It's the best thing you can tell someone of just like,

just keep going and failing. Yeah. If Seinfeld can do it, then you can do it too. Right. It's okay. Yeah. So great. Well, the special is amazing.

Thank you. Really so good. I'm, uh, I was, it's very rare when you put it on and you and there's just been a couple recently like over the last year where the hour goes like that. It's just like that.

That's what I'm hoping for. Yeah. I mean, again, it lives for so long. It lives forever. The clips go up. But I'm hoping that people see it and I'm just as excited about it as the audience was. Yeah. You know, in the theater. And there's a maturity to it.

There's like you've done it. You know, you stuck to your style for so long. Like you didn't waver and try. try and do other, like, and it's so you got to watch this thing that you're doing mature. And, yeah, you're at the top of your game, which is a good thing after 20 years, like, to still be improving. Yeah, it's great. I mean, and I like that you're building on the whole body of work now. Yeah, right.

It's like, being a stand-up has been around for 20 years. Yeah. It's a different level of respect, a different level of attention that I'm like, oh, I've earned this. Yeah. That I just want to keep going. I was thinking about retiring. Like, maybe, you know, five hours is enough. and then just like being on stage at Carnegie Hall.

Being on stage at Sydney Opera House. I was like, oh, my, my, this is what I want to do. I want to cash in on the respect I've earned and go out and keep doing these sort of things. So I'm getting to work on the next hour. I'm going to keep enjoying it. Try to get, like, this character at 50 is fascinating to me. What will that be like? Yeah.

It's only going to get better. Yeah. And, yeah, whenever you feel like, I always feel like, whenever you feel like, retire or stop or change or shift, you just need a couple days off. You just need to, you're tired. You're just tired. And after you take a little break and you kind of come back. It's easy to get tired.

Yeah. Last question before we go. And thank you again. I hope you enjoy the bread. I'm taking the bread. When you saw the clip of me and my special, did you think too skinny? I thought skinny. I thought Tom was working out for the special.

Like he knew when the date was and he was doing a little extra, a little extra time on the, on the treadmill to get ready for that. But you look, you look good. All right, good. You look good. But not too skinny. Not too skinny.

I think I. I called my special bones and all. And I was worried, like, in the edit, I'm like, do we have to change the name? But it was like, I look fine. Yeah. It's like, you look fine. You look great.

Thank you, Anthony. Congratulations. Thanks for having me. All right. We got it, Joe.