Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 257 - Seth Rogen

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

This week on Breaking Bread Seth Rogen joins us at the table! He discusses all things about his new Apple+ series, The Studio - the inspiration, finding the humor in Hollywood studio execs, and having no one to blame but himself for creating difficult filming situations. He also shares an INSANE story about filming with a real tiger and fearing death. A true comedy legend. Enjoy! The Studio is available to stream on Apple TV+ now! New episodes out every Wednesday. Subscribe to our Patreon to get extended episodes early, behind the scenes content, and bonus episodes! Patreon.com/BreakingBreadWithTomPapa ------------------------------- 0:00:00 Intro 0:00:15 Meeting & parties 0:02:05 Baking bread 0:03:34 The Studio, beauty of LA filming at WB 0:06:40 Cinematography, composition, comedy 0:11:40 Episodic television  0:15:30 List of questions 0:16:22 Shooting with a real tiger 0:21:45 The Interview controversy 0:24:05 Directing and creating the situations you live through 0:25:24 Growing up loving comedy 0:28:44 Writing jokes at 13 years old 0:31:30 Judd Apatow world 0:32:25 Evan Goldberg, comedy boom 0:36:45 Silly questions and homeware line 0:37:42 Vanderpump pug 0:39:30 Eating out 0:41:05 Not having kids 0:41:47 The Studio, finding the humor in studio execs 0:45:00 Testing projects 0:48:22 Uncomfortable moment 0:50:10 Canada, moving to LA 0:53:50 Comedy is always hard 0:57:30 Building production company 1:00:35 Writing, directing, producing 1:01:23 Thank you's ------------------------------- Tom Papa is a celebrated stand-up comedian with over 20 years in the industry. Watch Tom's new special "Home Free" out NOW on Netflix! Patreon - Patreon.com/BreakingBreadWithTomPapa Radio, Podcasts and more - https://linktr.ee/tompapa/ Website - http://tompapa.com/ Instagram -  https://www.instagram.com/tompapa Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tompapa Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/comediantompapa Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/tompapa   #tompapa #breakingbread #comedy #standup #standupcomedy #bread #sethrogen #thestudio #appletv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and he was physically hiding from a movie star in his office because the movie just came on, the guy's movie just came on tracking, and it wasn't tracking well. Oh, no. And he was, like, there for a meeting. And we, like, came to, like, drop something off, and he was, like, literally, like, don't let them know I'm here.

Because, like, it was like, Denzel Washington's going to yell at me. And I don't want him to. I love him. He's my favorite. And he's going to scream at me if he sees me. And I remember thinking, like, it's pretty funny. It's really funny. It's breaking bread.

We've never met before. I don't think we have. I was just wondering. I was just thinking that in my head. I don't think I don't think we have. We've never met. A pleasure. Do you think I have to go to more parties?

No. No. Not at all. There's nothing good out there. Just disappointing. Yeah, I know some. Do you get you out? You should?

I don't know. I don't want to. I don't want to. I don't want to. No. But, you know, you see people meeting people and going to parties after the Oscars or whatever. And you're like, I don't know. Should I have gone?

Like, we would have met, maybe. We would have met. Yeah, it would have been disappointing. Are you good at a party? No. No. No. I don't think so.

Yeah. I don't think I leave a good impression. I've always liked to blurt stuff out inappropriately. Yeah, I do that a lot too. The worst is when you see a couple people talking and you know, and to try and break into that circle. Mm-hmm.

Like when you come up. I just say, what are you guys talking about? That's good. I don't know if that's an elegant way to do it. I try. That's where I've landed with it. Well, it's good to finally meet you. I've been a huge fan of yours who made me laugh for such a long time.

Oh, thank you so much. I was really psyched for this. And we had Ike on the other day. We had Ike Barronholz on, and this is going to be so much more fun. Oh, I can't imagine. I know. I'm much worse than him in this setting. He aims to please much more than I do.

He was really trying. Yes, that part of me is long dead. It's why I like having him around. It reminds me of what it was like to try and care. When I had enthusiasm. Exactly. It was nice. I just bake this bread for you this morning.

That's amazing. Yeah. You can touch it. It's your bread. That's incredible. It's hot. Oh, wow. It really is warm.

Yeah. That's beautiful. Thank you. Beautiful bread. Yeah. And I came by, I was performing in Vegas over the weekend. So I had to get my wife to feed the starter on Saturday. So when I rolled in yesterday, the timing would be all right that I would complete it by the time I

saw you. That's amazing. I love a sourdough. Yeah, I hope you enjoy it. I'm sure I will. Did you, have you been, is it a new, how long have you been making sourdough? Like 10 years. Wow, that's a long time. Yeah. Did you take the master class? No. It's supposed to be good. Is it? Yeah. I found myself in France at the bakery that belongs to the woman who teaches the sourdough. A polane? Yeah, yeah. And we got a tour and we got to see their ancient oven and their starter that they've had for hundreds of years. Yeah. Yeah. It's a friend of a friend, like, married into the Poulain family. And so we got to hang out with them.

Oh, that's so cool. And I was like, I like bread, but if I loved bread, this would be a really cool experience. We had her on the podcast, I think during the, during COVID maybe. And, yeah, I just fell in love with her. Oh, yeah, she's super cool. Yeah, really cool. She made me feel not cool. Yeah.

You throw a little French accent on a to boot, and you're really, like, completely out of it. straight off the top congratulations on the studio thank you man oh man it's good i've seen four of them already thank you so much and uh it's really really great it's it's great on so many levels i really appreciate yeah really well done thank you very cool uh my favorite thing i was thinking like as i was watching it was like i just like that someone's being making us feel happy about l.a for a minute yeah it really i love los angeles yeah and we really wanted to show the beauty of L.A. and,

but it's nice, you know, the nice, you know, I mean, it's all over L.A. But, like,

it's fine. As we were originally putting, like, the idea for the show together, me and Evan, my directing partner, were like, to,

like, we were like to us, a lot of our experience in Hollywood is being in, like, very beautiful places, having very stupid arguments. And that was like,

a cornerstone of the show, I think, was the juxtaposition of, like, these amazing buildings. Yeah. locations and Ellie's a very beautiful city a lot of the time and yeah and you're just often screaming at each other the stupidest shit in these places. I love Warner Brothers. It's just that's just

such a perfect lot. Yeah, it's a great lot. It's amazing. God. It's so good there. Yeah, it's really, really, really, really nice. Yeah. We wanted, uh, yeah, it's like, uh, it's, yeah, it's, yeah, it's, yeah, it's, yeah, it's, they're, they're all amazing in their own way. Yeah. They're all really quite beautiful, you know. are yeah but warner brothers it hasn't been filmed that much warner brothers also i feel like yeah yeah yeah a little bit in mank i think but it's not it's like right right right under under shot lock paramount's like in a lot of stuff yeah yeah uh with the first uh the first at that office where you're going in where um it's supposed to be like a shrine to filmmaking whatever that office

that's not real yeah yeah yeah well the shrine's not but that building right there is, right, when you're walking up past those little bungalow offices across? That's real, but like the actual office where the show is set is not a real. Right, right, right, right. On the inside. Yeah, and the outside. The outside is not real as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh. Yeah, it's all, uh, it's like a tricker, it's like a facade combined with visual effects basically. Oh, very cool. That's actually the Warner Brothers Television building, which is an incredibly unremarkable building. Yeah, because.

building that we covered up basically and built like a big giant fake Frank Lloyd Wright building there. All right, cool. Because when you're coming up, there's the ones, all those little buildings on the side. And I'm like, oh, that's, I had a, my very first table read ever out here was in that building. Those are all real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We seamlessly folded a fictional building into the wall. That's very cool.

It's beautiful. I don't know, I don't know who you know over at Apple. but they're spending a lot of money because it looks gorgeous. The whole thing looks like a beautiful film. Thank you. Yeah, we hired a really great cinematographer named Adam Newport-Bara. And yeah, I mean, it's funny. I came up doing comedy that was incredibly improvisational.

And I would say, like, the look of it was not the priority for the most part. You're never thinking. I remember once you were making a four-year-old virgin and I, like, made a suggestion to Jud about, like, a way to make the frame nice. and he like straight up made fun of me. Like, like, it was like, I was met with mockery

with like the desire to have the composition of the shot be a little nicer. And so it really like, you know, I think, I think more and more. And,

and, you know, going back to the 70s and 60, you know, comedy, it's not like there's no good looking comedy, but it's just not, you know,

it's not how I was brought up making comedy. It really was like a focus on, on the look, you know? And so me and Evan really, thought it would be nice to try to make something that, you know, that was a real challenge is, yeah, to make something that was very funny, but also hopefully very beautiful in a lot of ways. Yeah, it kind of like, because it's also about movies. So it feels like it should be, it should speak that language like fluently, you know?

Yeah. And kind of feel like it's made by people who are well versed in that. Right. So you kind of like subconsciously feel like we can maybe speak on it with like a little more authority. So I think as. adding beauty and, you know, like technical acumen, like, adds to the joke of the show in a lot of ways. Yeah, it does. Yeah, because it is so crazy that you are making this when they're trying to make great films. Like, it is such a special thing. Yeah. But the chaos behind it of what it is, every single step of what it is, is completely insane. It's really, it's honestly really like that.

Yeah. Like anything, this is, yeah, I would say like a sympathetic portrait of how crazy it tends to be. Yeah. Man, so many things have to go right before you get there. Yeah. It really, it was funny because you're talking in the first one, I think, about she's trying to get this shot without any cuts. It's just going to be one long shot. And it was like, wait a minute.

I think they're doing that to me watching this first episode. Wait, I don't think there's been a cut. I started like scrolling back to see if there was and you did, right? Yeah, with every scene, there's one episode that has no cuts, but every scene within the show has no cuts, basically. So unless there's like a time cutter location cut, we don't cut. Like so there's not traditional coverage where, you know, we're filming one person and the next person. Yeah. Every scene is one, yeah, like continuous shot basically.

Wow. Yeah. And it was, it was mostly to add to like the stress of. the tone of the show. Like it felt like it was a little more like unrelenting and immersive and and because it never settles into like a pattern, it kind of keeps you off kilter all the time basically. And it's and it's stressful. Like we wanted it to feel stressful to watch basically. And that music, the little music behind it. Yeah. It's like Birdmanish. It literally is the composer who did Birdman. It is. Yeah. We kept using Birdman as the temp music and then we were like,

we just hire this guy. Antonio Sanchez. is his name and he's amazing amazing and he's a brilliant jazz drummer and and the show's a lot of jazz throughout it but sort of like it's like it's like a rhythmic drumming basically yeah like never quite settles into like a steady a steady thing and again it sort of is always like keeping you a little off balance yeah that literally the guy who did that's so cool we'd like to thank the good people at quince for sponsoring today's program if you spend a lot of time time cooking at home, it's time to elevate your game. When your cookware actually feels good to use and is thoughtfully made and looks beautiful on your counter, it just makes the whole experience better.

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on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Quince, Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash Papa P-A-P-A for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com. If you're going to steal, just steal. That's amazing. That is really cool. And it's such a, it's such a, an ode to Hollywood, but it's, I like that it's comedy. Yeah. I like that it's like, you know, there's been stuff that, you know, tries to make, you know,

the stories about this town and that thing, but to have it to be pure comedy is great. For sure. I mean, I was like so, like Larry Sanders show was always like my favorite. thing in the entire world. I mean, I grew up loving the player, but I wouldn't say it's like an outward, hilarious movie for the most part. Like, there's funny stuff in it, obviously. But it's not like it's, you know, really trying to kill in a moment to moment basis.

But, yeah, like, when we were young, Larry Sanders was like the thing that really blew our minds and opened our eyes and, like, I think the first thing to, like, really, like, pull back the curtain and, you know, I just remember that. The first episode was like, started with Bob Sagitt, I think, on the couch. And then it cuts backstage. Like, what the fuck was that when you asked me the fucking questions? And it was just like, again, especially at the time with him, like, you always, it was just like such a oppositional view of how you were used to seeing him, you know.

And it always just left such an impression on us. And that to us was like always a goal. And we wanted to make something that was really funny. Yeah. Like we were outwardly trying to, like, kill and to create like plots and storylines that really like ratcheted up the comedy as they went along. Yeah. And really, you know, we tried to really, yeah, like, structure the show in like a true,

like situational comedy way. It is. And it's really episodic. It doesn't have, it's not like a five hour long movie. You know what I mean? Like we really wanted it to like essentially like one joke per, like, you know, one like comedic idea per episode that it's like really bringing to like a heightened more and more kind of excruciating place.

But yeah, we wanted it to be very simple and, and, and, repulsive and hopefully like hit a comedic crescendo that really is just like again something that is just kind of unexpected and hopefully just makes you laugh really hard yeah yeah which is very cool combination as you talk about it because it is it really feels like a combination of that great TV comedy but set in this film yeah facade it's really I never I don't think I've seen that yeah I mean it really like I think it's like I grew up watching like I mean I I was obsessed with Seinfeld and Larry Sanders. And, like, I love these shows where it was, like, there were great episodes of television.

And that's something we talked a lot about as we were, like, constructing the show was, like, I think the kind of, again, like, the norm with these streaming shows is that it's telling one big, long story. And our show kind of does that. But, like, this idea of kind of using the visual language of these newer shows, which are very cinematic and every bell and whistle that a movie has, you know, as far as time and. resources and cameras and stuff like that go and talent you know but yeah but to really focus it in and like really like a classic sitcom like uh like episode structure in a lot of ways yeah right and it gives you relief as a viewer you're not like you're watching some of these dramas and you're like this feels like a like a book report yeah you got to always i'm always confused i was watching like what was it called night night shift night call the Netflix one about the spies night action right a night agent

and I was watching Night Agent, Reacher, and Day of the Jackal simultaneously, and I was just like, I don't know, it's too much spy plot. Like, I can't keep track of it. It was just, it was just too much spy plot. But I think, yes, that's a nice thing about our show is like, you don't have to,

there's not a running storyline, you really have to, like, be remembering on a week to week. I really, I truly, just as a fan, thank you. It was, like, such a relief. I know. People were, like, all into Game of Thrones and their, like, with these imaginary worlds and people and stuff. I'm like, I'm out.

I don't know what is happening. Even like I love Severn so much, but I, when the second season started, I like sat down and I was like, I watched one of these like 20 minute YouTube videos like recapping the last season and like five minutes in I was like, I don't remember anything that happened on the show. And I watched the, I rewatch the entire first season like in like a weekend leading up to the second season. And it's a great experience. But I just simply don't have the brain capacity to do that with a lot of television. I really don't.

It's ridiculous. It's too much. They're asking too much of us. We just had, Joe and I were talking about White Lotus. Oh, yeah. And love White Lotus.

He's making great stuff. It was cool. And this one, I'm not that into this season. And then he told me about some plot things. And I was like, oh, I don't have to watch it. What a relief. Exactly.

It's like someone just telling you a story. I'm like, which is all so nice. I'd love for someone to just tell me, White Lotus. I know. It's a nicer way to spend my day. I don't have to walk around thinking I've got to get to this

assignment. No, just explain it to me. I know you've been, you know, you're out there, you've been doing interviews for a really long time and talking about a lot of stuff over and over again. So I just decide I want to throw in some questions and if at any point you feel

like you don't want to answer a straight question, and if I don't want to ask you one, we'll go to the secondary question. Okay, great. Sounds good. Okay, here's one. Would you rather ride on the back of a cow? Yeah.

A tiger. Oh, yeah. Or the rock. The rock. Man, probably the rock. I would imagine. Like a piggyback. Yeah, that'd be fun.

I once worked with a tiger. You did? Yeah. I thought you're going to say, I once worked with the rock. No, I've never worked with the rock. It would have been probably a preferable experience. I hear he's late a lot.

the tiger. I did a movie called The Interview about North Korea and there was a scene with a tiger. And I directed the movie with my partner. We wrote the scene where there's a tiger and and we, I thought in my head it would be like a CG life of pie

had come out sort of recently and I was like oh, we'll get the life of pie. We'll do the life put us down for one life of pie. And they were like, we can't afford that at all. Like we got to get a real tiger. And I was like, oh God. And so we found a tiger wrangler in Calgary. And we had a call with him. And it was so funny.

And he was like, like the least confidence-inspiring person you've ever spoken to in your entire life. I was like, where did you get the tiger? He's like, from a stripper. Okay. Okay. And we were like, what? And he was like, yeah, it was like he had like a tiger. she had a tiger cub as a part of her act

and he got too big and she was like I gotta get rid of this thing we were like where does stripper get a tiger he's like it's easier than you think that was his he's like you could get one and then he we had sent him the script and he's like let's just go over the scene

and he's like so you're not shooting this at night are you and I'm like yeah the scene's set at night he's like ooh and I was like why is that bad well they hunt at night oh He's like, can it be during the day?

We were like, no, is that okay? And there's like a log pause. And he's like, yeah, it's okay. I mean, it's okay. And he's like, it won't be in a big open area, will it? And we're like, yeah, it's like a giant, like a meadow basically. And he's like, ooh. And we're like, is that bad?

He's like, well, if there's like a deer or something, they will go after it. And we're like, oh, that's bad. Can we should we not do this? He's like, no, it's fine. And he's like, it won't be raining, will it? We're like, yeah. And we were like, literally we're filming in Vancouver in the window. it will be raining.

He's like, oh, that's not good. We were like, why? He's like, the rage just really agitates them. They just don't like the rain. And we were like, should we not do it? And he's like, no, it's fine. It'll be fine. It'll be fine.

And then it's the day arrives and there's the tiger. The guy and I see him, like walking it around. Like, like, a hundred yards away. And I'm just like, we gotta shoot this in a way that I'm like nowhere near the tiger. Like I just don't want to be near the tiger. And it's like, we shoot the tiger's half and my half. And I don't want to go see the tiger. I don't want to touch the tiger.

and the guy like marches right up to me. And first of all, he's supposed to double me in the scene. And I, like, I had seen him. And I'm like, you're going to have to lose some weight. If you're going to double me. Not that I'm small, but he was a big, he was a big dude. And he's like, great. I've been looking for his shoes to lose some weight.

And I see him walk toward me. And he is like, he's maybe game 10 bouts in the time that I've seen him. And I just, and he's like squeezed into the same war tropist me. And I'm just like, he didn't lose weight. And he's like, it's fine. It's fine. It's like, don't worry. And he's like, if you don't think we're going to match, then you're going to have to do the tiger stuff. And I was like, I don't want to.

And he's like, come meet the tiger. And I was like, I don't want to meet the tiger. You got to meet the tiger. He's got to get used to you. He's got to get used to. So he brings me over to the tiger. And it's like, its head is like the size of the, like this end of the table. Like it was like, I literally like couldn't put my arms around his head.

Just his head. And he's sniffing me. and I'm like getting accustomed to the tiger and the tiger seems to like me and we're shooting the seed and the whole time I'm just like I'm gonna fucking die and I it's my fault I'm the director

I can't I have nothing I have no way out of this and and it was and he kept getting his son was like his co tiger trainer who was like 17 years old and him and the guy kept getting an argument like in front of everybody where he's like bring it over and the son's like I'm trying dad and Jesus Christ dad

And I'm like, this is going to be the dumbest. I just don't want to die in a way where if you die like that, everyone's like, yeah. Yeah. Right. You asked for it. You did it that way. And then it all culminated where like we needed the tiger to roar. And it like, it wouldn't roar.

And he's like tugging on its fucking chain and shit and it won't roar. And he's like, he's like, oh, he's like, I know what to do. Don't tell anyone about this. Obviously, I am. And he's wearing a glove. And he takes off the glove. And he pees in it. And he goes, and he's like, roll, roll!

And he goes over the tiger. And he just takes his, like, pissy glove. And sir just goes like, blah. And, like, rubs it in the tiger's face. And the tire just goes like, ah! And he's like, did you get it? And we're like, it didn't roar. He's like, you'll put it in a roar sound.

It'll look like it's roaring. Trust me. And I'm going to say, he was right. It really was, like, it was roaring. Yeah. I just remember the tiger reacted like exactly as anyone would if you shoved like a pissy glove. love in their face.

They were just kind of like, ah, fuck. So anyway, not a tiger. Anyway, The Rock. Yeah,

back to the Rock. Can you watch that movie? The interview? Yeah. Well, that's what's so fucked up about it. It's like, it was at one moment,

like the most controversial thing in the world. Now it's on like T&T at 3 p.m. Is it really? Yeah. It's like, it's literally all like basic cable.

Wow. It's like comedy central plays it. It's so crazy. It's so weird. I literally didn't want to like, uh, even press on it because I thought if I do it, then we'll spies show up in my house.

No, yeah, exactly. Not anymore. It's just out there. How weird was that when that went down? Was it scary at all? It was scary. Yes. They gave us like personal security like 24 hours. They did. Yeah, Sony was just like you have to have security. And all day, every like an armed guard like on us basically. Jeez. And what's funny is we were like, this is so unnecessary. Like we don't need these people. I had one. Evan had one. Randall Park who played Kim Jong-on had one. And I think one of the writers had one, the other writer had one. And we were all like, this is so dumb. Why are they doing this? And then one day they were just gone. Like, I remember

like going outside and like the guard just wasn't there anymore. I called him. I was like, is your guard there? He's like, my guy's gone. And I was like, I liked having the guy. I take it all back. It was lovely having that guy. The absence of him made me really like him. So if you went out and went to go get coffee and come back. He'd follow me. They would follow me. in there, yeah, it was crazy. And it was, it was like a taste of, like, real controversy, I would say. Yeah, it was a big deal. Yeah, and I think, like, I think it was a good, like, equal, like, a good contextualizing event in my life where I think a lot of, especially people who do comedy, like, think they're involved in controversy.

Right. I guess at my head, I'm like, if the president isn't giving, like, entire news conferences about it, it's not real controversy. Right. It's sort of controversy. But, like, we hit a place of, like, real controversy. And it was ultimately fine. It was a big deal, though. It was a very big deal.

It was like, holy cow. Yeah, it was crazy. It was really. And then I remember I was making a movie. Like, it all happened in like November and December. And then I was like shooting a movie in January. And one of the other actors were like, we're involved in some big thing recently?

And I was like, people forgot already. It was like two weeks later. It's all gone. People are very self-involved in a great way. And there's so much news just roaring. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff happening. Past you all the time. That's good.

Yeah. There's a short. There's a short new cycle in general. It's funny though, like the Tiger thing, even in the interview, like all this stuff is, whatever situation you're in, you wrote it. Yeah. So it's like you actually create the problem yourself. For sure.

That happens all the time. Yeah. And I have no one to blame but myself. Yeah. These incredibly frustrating. During the one or that episode, that's all the one or there was a moment at the end where I'm like, it's like the sun is setting and I'm running to the car and I'm running to the car and I'm running to hand me a cup of coffee.

Right. Coffee like explodes all over me. And then I get in the car and we're supposed to drive away. We're actually shooting. The joke of the episode is like they're trying to get the shot before the sun is setting. And we're actually trying to, that's happening in real life. Oh, yeah. The sun is actually setting and it's our last day shooting the episode.

We're actually trying to get the shot before the sunsets, which was very meta, unfortunately. Yeah. And this thing kept happening where they kept, they've like mount the camera on the hood of the car before we pull away. And there was like the Wi-Fi in the house was like fucking with the signal or something like that. And every time they mounted the camera on the car, it like fritzed down and went, hey, why? basically. And so, and every time I'm getting this drink exploded on me. So every time they reset, we have to change my clothes. And they only have three changes because they didn't think it was going to take that many takes. And so they're blow-drying my clothes between takes. And the sun is

setting and I'm running. And I'm throwing coffee in my face and getting at the car and the camera fritzes out. And everyone running back. And there was a moment where I was like, wanted to lose my mind to freak out and yell at somebody. But I was like, this is all my fault. Like, no one is making me do this. This is, cause this whole problem. I called this whole. I was the one. And we were like, it'd be funny if it was all one shot.

It was not a setting. And so I internalized it. Amazing. It's just kept going, yeah. Oh, it's so funny. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, you literally. So were you always, I mean, you and Evan were kids together, right?

Yeah, we met in bar mitzvah class. In bar mitzvah class. Uh-huh. And was, who was, like, funny just, who was funnier? Were you funnier just as far as making everybody else laugh? Not at all. He's unbelievably funny. You were funnier?

Like when we made little movies and we were kids, like he was in them and I directed them. So like he wasn't, but I think I had more interest in performing than he did. Like I started doing stand-up comedy around that time when I was like 13 and I was in plays and stuff like that. And he had like no interest in being in front of an audience. Right. He doesn't have that wound.

Right. in the way that I do. Were your parents into it at all? No, not at all. No, my mother's a social worker and my dad worked at like non-profits. Right. Yeah.

No, they just loved movies. They were like huge movie fans and comedy fans and like really grew up like, you know, yeah, just like inundating me with movies and comedy and stuff like that. And they were very supportive. So like when I was like 13, I was like, I want to try stand-up comedy.

They were like, great. Yeah. Driving to the shows. Like, they totally got behind it. Why at 13, who did you watch at 13 that you thought? Like, I'm going to go try that. Was it on late night or was it? I was, I was, I just watched all.

Like, I was like, so I loved, I remember there was like that Billy Crystal special where he's in Russia that my parents were watching. And I like Stephen Wright a lot. Yeah. And, you know, Richard Pryor. And I would rent comedy movies for the show and Jim Carrey. that his specials and I loved Seinfeld

I was like obsessed with the show Seinfeld as well was on then you know and I just and at that time like it was that was like the way I like wanted a career I like didn't want to have a normal job so I was like I'll start doing stand-up comedy maybe I'll be get like a sitcom

like Seinfeld did and I'll be like a comedic actor on a sitcom and I also my parents are really into like Woody Allen and Albert Brooks and and like Harold Wright and guys like that. And so I also grew up loving movies and thinking maybe I could like, like, like, yeah, like Albert Brooks was like someone I really looked up to and my parents loved his movies.

So that was always someone where I was like, oh, that would be like a great type of career to have. Yeah. Yeah. There is that funny thing that happened to me too in like seventh grade when you realize, oh, this, there are adults being funny as a job. Oh yeah. You can be funny for a living. It was like, holy cow, that shifted everything.

Yeah. And then I went to like a standup comedy workshop. My parents, like, enrolled me in like a. stand-up comedy workshop, like out of the yuck-yucks in Vancouver when I was 13. And I, like, loved it. And I, like, the comics were really cool to me and, like, really much more welcoming than I imagine I would be of a fucking 13-year-old if I saw him. And we're really supportive and really helped me and, like, invited me into their community.

What was your material at 13? Were you talking about school? Well, no, see, that. It was like, at first, I think. my material was just sort of like aping other comics I liked, as I'm sure a lot of people do, so it was sort of like surreal. It was like Stephen Wright-esque material.

Well, the very first jokes I wrote were about like my grandparents. And it was more personal, you know? And then, yeah, I got more into like this other stuff. And then there was a comic and then I was at, there was a show, a place called the Urban Well, which is like where it was like the place in Vancouver

where people were formed in Brent Butt, who's like still a successful Canadian comedian. Yeah. And he was so funny. And it was like a good show. And they did two shows every Tuesday. And I would try to get on one. And there's a guy named Daryl Lennox, who actually passed away recently.

But he was a great comic from Seattle, I think, actually, who was so nice to me and always kind of mentored me and was really, again, someone who just like took me much more seriously than I would, you would assume. And I had just done a show where I told all these weird, surreal jokes kind of. And he took me like a side after. and he was like, he's like, you should be talking about trying to get hand jobs and stuff, man. He's like, that's all you should be talking about. And he's like, you're the only one out of all of us.

You can actually just talk about that from like your personal day-to-day experience. He's like, I don't know why you're telling these weird cerebral jokes. He's like, just talk about like the stuff that's happening to you. It was like a 14-year-old kid. And that's also, and I did. And then we started writing Super Bad, like around that. time, like directly based on that conversation and this feeling of like, because Evan, who I was friends with, like, we had talked about trying to write a movie. Yeah. As 13-year-olds do. And then we were like,

let's write a movie like a high school movie, like based on our, like, what's happening to us in high school. Right. Oh, man. It's, it's a crazy thing because a lot of people will have these ideas, like when they're 13 with their friend and be like, oh man, we could be, you know, get stoned or whatever and be like, we're going to make. a movie, but you guys actually went after it. That's really the whole thing. Yeah. I mean, it took a really long time, but we stuck with

it, you know, and like, it seemed like something weirdly that just was possible. Like, I think we had like a crazy belief in ourselves that we were able to write a movie that people would want to go

and see because we were huge movie fans ourselves and we were writing a movie that we would really love. And that was really like to us that was like exactly as much logic as we need it's all you need basically yeah and just do it yeah yeah then we just did it for a really long time it took us years and years and years like we want it took us a long time to make it like a good movie but but we never stopped you yeah yeah so when you when you got brought into the apatel world yeah was that was kind of like your first like professional stuff so basically i was like 16 so i've been doing stand-up a few years

and got an agent through stand-up and wanted to start going on auditions to act. Right. And then I bet Freaks and Geeks was the second audition I ever got sent out on. So I met Judd, like literally a couple weeks after I got an agent for the first time. That's so great. And Paul Feig, like, they were like in the audition. And I'm from Vancouver. So they like, they came to Vancouver like to do auditions because they did like a huge, like national,

I guess international like talent search. Right. And so I met them in Vancouver and got cast like out of Vancouver. And so I like went to L.A. like with a job basically. Destiny. Amazing. Yeah. Destiny.

So where is Evans head at when you're starting to get roles because you guys are going to make films? Was he just like, well, this is going to be, was it always the two of you? Yeah. Well, he, his parents were much less supportive. They were more like get a real job. This is sort of not going to pan out. Yeah. And they were very skeptical that we would be able to do it,

even when I kind of was moving to L.A. and getting going. And also, I, my dad's American, so I have dual citizenship, which made it so much easier for me to work. And he, basically, if you don't have a college degree, it's much harder to get, like, a green card and a work visa. So he went to McGill and finished university. But he would come to L.A. in the summers, and we would work on Superbad,

and that's when we wrote Pineapple Express was in, like, 2000 basically, like after I had moved to L.A. And he was like coming back and forth. Oh, okay. Yeah. Right. And then when he graduated, he moved to L.A. Like, right when he graduated.

Right. Right. So it was always a mission. It was definitely the two of you. Yeah. And I kept, even though the shows I was working on kept being canceled, I kept working as a writer. And even though no one wanted to make super bad, it was like a writing sample that would like always get us meetings and stuff like that. So like, it was very encouraging, even though.

it was very discouraging in some ways it was like enough to keep us going basically yeah it's one of the most amazing things to me is when people make film get stuff done that they you have to believe in that idea for so long yeah because it's sometimes take like a decade

before you can actually make the thing oh yeah for sure you gotta you better really like your idea yeah exactly yeah because if you don't you'll get you'll just give I mean that's why a lot of you'll just give up on it like if it's not an idea that you like love then it's just too much work. Yeah.

Did you have any that you guys wrote that didn't get made? Definitely, yes. Of like something that you really loved? Yeah, we've written a few things over the years that even still, recently we've written things that have not gotten made. Yeah. And maybe they will or maybe they will in like some other form. But no, we have a long list of unproduced screenplay. But anything from the early day, from the Superbad kind of days?

Yeah, but they weren't really like our. ideas. They were sort of like things that people would ask us to write and we would write it on spec and then just no one would want to make it and stuff like that. Yeah. But no, we spent most of our time on Superbad and Pineapple Express and then they got made and then we kind of just kept going from there. Yeah. How psyched were you in that you get the the real idea that Superbad's going to be made? Like you're actually going to make the thing you've been carrying around. It was crazy. It was very nerve-wracking in a lot of ways because we like, had been working on it for so long, but it was also, I mean, it was, like, we made, it was a weird,

it was a crazy time. Like, we made, we made, we made, knocked up Super Bad and Pineapple Express in like one 12-month period of time, basically. Really? Yeah. So, like, after, I think it was like Talladega Nights did really well. Sony was just like, whatever you got, we'll fucking do it. Like, whatever, like, Judd, like, they were like, they opened the floodgates for Judd.

And we're basically like, whatever you want to make. we'll make it, you know? And so those were, yeah, Superbrand and Pineapple Express were just like scripts that were, like, sitting there ready to be made. And so, yeah, we made it all in like a very quick period of time. Yeah. I'm really waiting for that to happen again. Like, maybe this, maybe the studio doesn't, like, something's got to kick open comedy again.

I know. It's interesting. Like, I think it can happen. I totally do. That one of them days movies was really funny with Kiki Palmer. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't like a, you know, groundbring.

Breaking smash hit, but it was like, it did pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. It was fun to see in like a sold out theater full of people. Yeah. Laughing together. Yeah, it's great. I think, I think it'll, you know, there's, it's cyclical, the industry. And there's, like, trends.

And but I think, you know, it just takes one movie also to, like, completely change. Yeah. Everyone's perspective on things. So, like, it'll happen again. I hope. Yeah. I hope so, too. Back to my other questions.

Great. Who would you rather? Who do you think would have liked you more? Keith Richards or Frank Sinatra? Oh, man. Probably Keith Richards. Frank Sinatra would have thought I was a dope-smoking loser, I would imagine. A hippie.

Yeah, a hippie. But Keith Richards would probably think I was totally fine. Who do you think you would have liked more? Probably Keith Richards as well, yeah. I've been around this far from Keith Richards. I've not said one word to him. but I was at the SNL-50th thing, I was sitting like four seats away from him.

Oh, you were. Which was pretty hilarious. So I could eavesdrop on Keith Richards, which was pretty cool, I thought. Yeah, that's really cool. I enjoyed it. I really like your house plant line. Oh, thank you.

Man, that stuff is really cool. Oh, thanks, man. I'll send you some stuff. I like the standing ashtrays. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Can I give you a product recommendation? Please. I don't know if you had this when my grandparents

used to have ashtrays. They were kind of like bean bags in the bottom. Oh, yeah, where you put on like the arm of the chair and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah, we've talked about that. You have? It's a good product. It's a good product from the 50s, right?

Yeah. Yeah. No, I love those. I would be good. Yeah. I don't need, I don't have to be brought into it at all. It's totally cool. Oh, yeah, Vanderpump.

Vanderpump. Yeah. Do you watch Vanderpump? I don't watch Vanderpump, but I have a pug that came from Vanderpump. Like from Lisa Vanderpump? Yeah. Oh, like her rescue? yeah.

Was it on the show? It was not on the show. My daughter hunted it down. That's amazing. Her sister was going to college. So she left the house and my daughter was feeling lonely and she did all the research herself. And she was probably a sophomore in high school. And she said I found this dog.

I found a pug. We have to go get the pug. And I was just like, I'd just say yes all the time. So I'm like, okay, we'll go get the pug. And we drove to Vanderpump where they have this rescue place. You went to the restaurant? No, they have like a dog. Oh, a dog place.

But it's bander pumped. Bander pumped out. There's this big red gold-lined staircase that comes down the middle, and they present your dog. Oh, that's amazing. And so we're sitting there waiting. Gentlemen prefer blonde. Exactly. I love that.

And then this pug comes down with his tongue hanging out. He has a cold. His eyes are going crazy, walking down this palatial thing. Oh, that's so funny. It's very funny. And the pug is good? The pug turned out well. Yeah, the pug's all right.

He pees all over, but he's cool. I love a pug. Yeah, a pug's good. You have a dog, right? I do have a dog. I do have a dog. Yeah. Ada.

She's great. She's so pop. Well, she's like 14 months old, I guess. Maybe 16 months old. Oh, nice. Oh, that's so great. Who cooks at your house? Um, me and my wife both cook together sometimes. Sounds like you order out.

Yeah, we order it at all. There are prolific cookers. You know, cookers? Was your mom? Did your mom cook? My mom was not a good cook. Oh, no. She's like since learned how after we left.

That's funny. But as a child, no, it was not a delicious. We ain't out a lot. Uh-huh. Yeah. We had it Red Robin all the time. Oh, nice. Yeah, like many, several days a week as a family, we would go to Red Robin.

And it was like a joke at my high school. Because like anytime anyone went to Red Robin, which most people do, once a year anytime anyone was there me and my family would be there without fail and they were like saw you red robin I'm like yep we're there

all the time it's where we go what was your order what was your favorite I got a burger there was like a good or they had maybe they had these like fajitas that were good my dad would get the nachos all the time

nice I like nachos I'm the same way my dad would travel he used to we live in Vancouver my parents and like there was like a sports bar like an hour outside of Vancouver in Richmond where like the like the minor league hockey team practice and he would like drive to the sports bar because they had good nachos. I get that. Yeah, I was like two hours round trip.

Melted cheese on tortilla chips. I like this guy. That is commitment. A good nachos solid. Oh yeah. He loves a nacho. You're not going to have to. children.

No. You talk about that a lot. I have kids and we just met. But I want to say good, good on you. I get a lot of that. How old were you when you had children? 30s. Yeah.

Yeah. Like late 30s. The window's closed. Yeah. No, it's a lot. You'll be exhausted. You'll be exhausting. I'm already exhausted. One thing I really love about, another thing I really love about the studio is the, first of all, in the first one, the complete lack of thought and consideration that your character or any of the people that are working with you in the studio has for just throwing all of your beliefs out the window

when you're faced with adversity. Oh, yes. And at one point, Ike says something to you like, why are you lying so much? Why, you can't stop lying? I don't say, I don't know. It really is such a...

It rings true. It rings true. Oh, yes. It really rings true. Oh, yeah. Hollywood, especially those, I mean, those studio people are very self-preservational. And I think that's what, like,

we would see was so funny. And one of the reasons we thought the show was a funny idea. because we become friends with a lot of these people. They love movies just as much as we do. They grew up loving movies. They love directors just as much as we do. They love movie stars and the magic of Hollywood just as much as we do,

except with their job, they have to make all those people hate them. And constantly lie to those people and manipulate those people. And they don't have to, but like they, a lot of them do because it just makes their lives easier and it makes what they're doing more defensible. And it makes... Yeah.

And time and time. I mean, it just makes it a little less likely that they'll get fired in their heads for something they're doing, you know? And it's like, I mean, yeah, I mean, it ultimately was just like a comedic job to us because, like, we would see these people. And I remember once, like, we were working at Sony and we were, we were friendly with one of the executives. And he was physically hiding from a movie star in his office because the movie just came on, the guy's movie just came on tracking. and it wasn't tracking well. Oh, no. And he was, like, there for a meeting.

And we, like, came to, like, drop something off. And he was, like, literally like, don't let them know I'm here. Because, like, it was like, Denzel Washington's going to yell at me. And I don't want him to. I love him. He's my favorite. And he's going to scream at me if he sees me. And I remember thinking, like, it's pretty funny.

It's really funny. That's what's so heartbreaking about your character is you really, you really play that you love film, you love these celebrities, you love everything, and nobody wants you around. No, no,

it's so heartbreaking. Really, when you're like coming on set and when you're going to talk to these people, like you're just so psyched and everybody, just because of the position you have, which is now the head of the studio, they're so bummed out. And that's,

again, like, it's sometimes very real. And you give them their own little video village, you sort of, Keep them, so, you know, separate and you kind of, like, sequester them away from the real action. And you take turns going to talk to them and sort of, like, offer yourself up to, like, distract them, you know what I mean? And it is a bummer.

And again, like, a lot of them love it. Like, a lot of them, again, really view themselves as, like, additive to the process in a lot of ways, you know. In the movies. And, yeah, like, they view themselves as, as filmmakers, you know, which is debatable. How are you with testing and stuff? I know Judd always talks about that he really finds value in testing movies and putting stuff out in front of people and I think he's working on something with his daughter right now. And he was talking about testing it. What's your feeling on that?

With our movies, we do it a lot. Yeah. I'm sort of new to, like, I've never been this involved in making a television show. You know what I mean? Yeah. I've never, I've been in shows and we've, produced a lot of shows, but I've, I've never, like, been, like, it's never been, like, this much the focus of my attention, and I've never been, like, this much the center of the

process, I guess, in a lot of ways. And so, yeah, with our movies, we test a ton, and I, that feedback is so helpful, but with TV, I didn't, the, the infrastructure is so different for testing, you know what I mean? And it's also, like, what experience are you trying to replicate? So, what's funny, though, also is, like, you know, as we were making the show, we shot it in this very specific way. And, and, and we were sort of foregoing a lot of the things that would give us options in the editing room because we were really like baking ourselves into one, like, highly refined, uh, product basically. And, and, and if we didn't like a line, we, we really could, couldn't take it out. If we wish the rhythm was different, we couldn't manipulate it.

And so that was really fun and exciting and scary in a lot of ways, but it's completely antithetical to like a testing process because you can't change anything. Yeah. So as we were finishing the show, and as we were making it, but it was funny, the whole time being ever, we're like, this is a great, like, risk for us to take. But what's sort of nice is that, you know, we're never going to be, like, sitting in a movie theater full of people watching it because it's a television show. And so we won't, you know, we can just hypothesize everyone will laugh at it, but we'll never actually be faced with, like, the immediate scrutiny of, like, an audience receiving it well or not.

And then the first place we played the show was, like, last week in Austin, Texas, in a theater, with like a thousand people. And I was like really nervous because again, like I was like, we said we never wanted to do this. The whole premise was that we weren't ever going to do this. And like the most people I'd watched it with was like in a room with like this many people. Like there was like we were like our sound mix with like seven people. So we didn't test the show.

We didn't. I never saw it in a room with like people. We never showed it to our friends. We showed it to, we brought like very small groups of people in the editing room a few times. Yeah. And showed it to them and got notes and stuff like that. And often we'd be like, great, no, great no.

Did they leave and be like, we can't do any of that stuff? Like, we literally can't do that. And so, yeah, it was, this was very different because we were really, like, locking ourselves into something that was in many ways, like, immutable. Yeah. And so, yeah, like, generally when we test, you're like, oh, if that joke doesn't play, we swap it out for one of these other jokes. So then at this point, the only reason, the only thing you're doing by testing it is making the executives. I'm making the executives very nervous. See what does it play.

Exactly. So we were like, maybe we don't need to do that. Yeah. I liked it. I like that you got Soderberg mentioned in there. Mm-hmm. He's my guy. He's great.

Yeah. He's the only one that puts me in things. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, maybe not with that, you know. Well, this is a part of the program that we call an uncomfortable moment. Great. And I feel like that's a good segue for it.

I love it. I don't like to, you know, pitch people in front of other people or when cameras are running or anything like that. But this idea just kind of hit me in the middle of the night and Rachel put it together. And I just think, you know, Ike's great. You're great. Thanks. I'm around. Your tech avail.

Living currently living in L.A. Local hire. What do you think of this idea? The Three Stooges. Look at that. Is that up for grabs? That's the three of us. That is the three of us.

Well, I don't know if it has to be up for grabs because my thought is we... We do a porno parody of it. Which means you can just do it. Right? Or maybe behind the scenes. Like, I don't know their story. Like, were they nasty off camera? I know nothing.

I know they got rid of a few curly, and sheps, right? Chips, yeah, they went through some sheps. They went through some shaps. Yeah, and some curleys. Had a couple curleys. Yeah. But yeah, I think someone's good.

Didn't they do it? They did a Michael Chickless version of this at one point. Yeah, wasn't Larry David and... Was he in it? Didn't Larry David play one of them? Did he? I think so. Oh, wow.

This will be better. Again, you don't have to commit. I don't know if that's a hard. I don't know that saying much. You don't have to commit. I just want to throw it out there. I think we look good together. Right?

I think we do. Yeah. I think it's our glasses. I do agree with that. The three stooges butt with more glasses. Are you more Canadian or more American? I don't know. It's a tough one.

That's a change through the years, I would imagine. Yes, I would, I mean, I am very Canadian. I grew up in Canada. My sensibility was like shaped in Canada. You know what I mean? And I grew up watching and loving Canadian. and things, you know, but my dad is American, so even in Canada, I, you know, and he's not just American, he's from Newark, which is like very American, you know, and so my whole dad's

side of the family's from New Jersey, so I would grow up, going to New Jersey and spending time in New Jersey and surrounding. I'm New Jersey. Where in New Jersey? Clifton. Where, okay. It's like just north of Newark. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then my grandmother lived in Parsipani, which is not great. No, not great. I wrestled there once. Yeah. And I was really intimidated. I was heavy, so I was in the heavyweight category in seventh grade. And this kid from Parsipany came out and flipped me over and put his crotch in my face and pinned me in front of everybody with his balls on my face.

And I quit the next day. I get it. The Parsipney pin, they call it. It's a career ender. You don't want that. So you went there a lot. I was 16 or 17 basically. I moved to L.A.

You're a kid. So yeah, I was a kid. So I've lived in L.A. for, you know, almost 30 years at this point, I guess, 25 years. So did you come down here solo when you got the gig? No, my parents came down with me for a few years. It was just coincidentally,

my parents were both unemployed and our house was up for sale when I got cast in Freaks and Geeks and Basically. So they just came to L.A. with me for a couple years, yeah. He's our only shot. Literally. They know a good bet when they see one. What do you think of all of this Canada talk? All of this going on.

I mean, it's just so silly. It's so crazy, right? You think it's just a distraction? You think they're just... I mean, these tariffs are real. They're having a fight back with that. I know. I don't even know anymore.

I don't know what the endgame is. I don't know anyone what's trying to do. That's my thing. I don't get what the goal is. I know. I'm like, it seems like, sheer chaos to me.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, do they have any, like is, what is their end game? What do they want? I don't know.

Someone let my like, you know, crazy old grandfather run the country. It would be, it would be terrible. Trust me. So I don't,

I think, I think it's like that. Yeah. Yeah. I was in Texas for South by the day. We already did her with some friends who, uh, are Republicans.

And even, even the guy was like, I don't know what he's doing with these tariffs. Like, neither, not exactly. Yeah. No shit, man. He's like, I'm starting to think it doesn't quite make sense. It's like, really?

Yeah. You think? I literally on Wednesday was in New York doing a gig for all these heads of corporations, like CEOs, like real smart, very Republican people. And they were calling them terrifying. Ooh, the best joke made by a Republican. But it didn't calm me down. No.

Get it. You see what we did? See, we know what we're doing. Get that on Gutfield. Oh, the worst. I literally had a driver yesterday, taking me from the airport, just talking about all the great comics on there.

I was like, I'll just walk. Just let me go. Let me out. Road me over. People complain that comedy is hard today, but don't you think that the, political correctness is just the latest way to describe the reality that comedy is just always hard.

Yeah, it's not something I've ever thought, you know what I mean? Like, I think we've, I've made stuff, you know, we've been making stuff for 25 years or so. And, you know, I wouldn't know, I don't know, we're like the edgiest people out there making stuff. But we, I think, generally have, like, R-rated comedic fare that tries not to pull punches. I guess, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's not, it's, it's not something that we've ever complained about. You know what I mean?

Like, and I'm always so confused as to like what the specifics are with what people feel is. That they can't say. That they wish was still on the table that just isn't anymore. Like, I'm really, I would love to hear the exact joke you wish you could tell that you don't think you can anymore. It's a great point. Yeah, because I don't, I don't, yeah, like, I just don't see it. And I think, like, if you're clever and you're good and, and you're able to. to convey

and it either work, it's a very binary thing in many ways. Like it either works or it doesn't. You know what I mean? And like if you say something and no one laughs and everyone thinks you're a fucking asshole, like you didn't, you didn't land it.

Right. Yeah. And if you say something and everyone's like, oh wow. I mean, that's funny. I didn't think you could do that. But that's funny.

Yeah. Then you did it. Then it works. Right. Yeah. Then it works. So like I've, and for us,

we've seen, you know, we test our movies and we've over the years of tested jokes where you're just, you just feel it. You're like, oof, like that.

Yeah. No one wants to hear that. You know what I mean? And, and you, and for me, like, yeah,

and if you have a lot of other good jokes, it's not like a concession. It's like a relief that you are doing something that is funny instead of something that seems like,

it's like people just don't fucking dig it. Right. Just to be provocative. Yeah, I don't get that at all. And even if there's funny, like I'm a big fan of Anthony Jezzelnick. Like,

he's very, His whole thing is trying to be provocative. And he's still very funny. And he does not offend people. Right. Exactly. Like in a true way. That's true.

And so I think like, yeah, to me, there's plenty of people who are doing exactly the thing that people seem to be complaining you can't do anymore. And as someone who makes, you know, we make the boys. We make, you know, we've made a lot of R-rated movies over the years. And, you know, and I've found that if anything, I'm like amazed at we're able to get away with. Right. And like how disgust. were able to be and people seem accepting of it.

Like, I rejoice and, you know, and yeah, there's no joke I wish I could make and I am like angry at society for stripping me of that, right? Like, that just seems so, yeah. It's such a weird way to view comedy in my opinion, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When the end result is, are they going to laugh? Yeah.

It pretty much takes all of the guessing out of it. Yeah. And, like, I find, I mean, yeah. And I don't, people. are like you can't say i just very has anyone actually been like have their career taken from them over a joke you know what i mean like like i think like people do despicable things but i wouldn't yeah i wouldn't scratch that up to like comedy's hard now yeah yeah somebody going on a drunken racist tweet tweet list at night that's not comedy's hard now you should do that you know what i mean

or like yeah it's like people break the law like that's that's not comedy's hard now right it's like Maybe that person sucks. Yeah. Yeah. Your company, you have a ton of projects that you're working on. Do you feel like this is a good time for you? Just like, is this another chapter? Like, it seems like you're running a business now.

Or are you? Are you? Yeah. Making Evan do it. No. No, I'd say of anything for the last, like, like, you know, maybe five years. We've kind of focused on like building up the company,

maybe even more, six years and like making it like a production company that's sort of up and running. And now that it is, it's actually allowed us to do something like the studio where we kind of are able to step away completely for, I mean, we still do a lot of stuff with the company. But you got people. Yes, we have a better infrastructure in place that allows us to like go right interact and act in a TV show for months and months and months together, basically.

So, yeah. No, so it's fun, though. And honestly, like, the way it works is, like, there's a lot of things I work on as a producer very regularly and scripts that I am helping to develop and helping to write and kind of shepherding along. But, but, yeah, what's nice is now we kind of just focus on the stuff that we want to be focused on or the stuff that needs our attention. It's very cool.

I mean, because a lot of times you'll hear of people that are successful actors. or whatever, and they get these production deals, and it's just a name only. You know, it's just for the studio to keep you, but you guys are cranking stuff out. Yeah, we actually produce a lot of stuff. Yeah. And, yeah, and I have a lot of friends who have come to me

over the years being like, I want to start a production company like you guys, and I'm like, no, I don't think you do. Like, yeah, it does not, like, you have to really like the act of producing and developing scripts and working with writers, and you have to really believe in your ability to be additive to that process. Right.

and in your ability to communicate it in a way that is helpful and pleasurable to everybody involved. And you have to like being in meetings with studio people and arguing over budgets and casting and things like that. And it's something like I was always kind of brought up doing that by Judd. Like he was looking back, really training all of us that worked on freaks and geeks and undeclared to kind of not just be writers, but be producers. Yeah. And so that was always like the kind of language we, spoke, but I think a lot of people see us do it, and they're like, I want to try

it, and I'm like, you don't want to do this. It's not for everybody. Like, you have to, yeah, it's... Be built for it. You have to be built for it. And really like it. And really, really not just assume that, like, just because you're a producer, like, it's easy now. And people do whatever you want. Yeah.

There's, yeah, like, we have not hit the level of success where people just, you know, where it's not without its constant conflict. I don't know. Does anyone ever? I would have hoped James Cameron. I hope no one's yelling at James Cameron. He might be the only one. He might be the only one.

It's my only hope. I've been around some big people and they're always fighting. They're always scrapping. Yeah. Yeah, no. Yeah. It's tough. Do you, is it the writing the joy or is the producing or reacting?

I think actually like bringing, like doing the show where we were writing and directing and I was acting in it and that, that, and producing it like that to me is like a very fun version of things. And it's very engaging. And but I, I do enjoy all of it. Like, and I, I enjoy acting in other people's things.

And it's sort of a relief to not have all that pressure and to just be able to focus on acting. And I enjoy writing things and other people go make. Like, they are all fun. But when, when it all kind of comes together and it's a thing I really love and believe in and we're able to, yeah,

kind of do all the jobs. And it hasn't happened that many times. Like, It's only happened a few times throughout our careers that we really like invested all of it into it. And it was great. Like we had so much fun doing this. Yeah.

Yeah. This really was a treat. I really felt I've just loved your sensibility and your comedy for so long. That's so nice. Really, that I knew when we finally get a chance to meet, it would be cool. Yeah, it's so nice to me. I've been a fan of yours a very long time. Oh, thanks, ma'am.

So thank you for having me. Yeah. And if we do the Stoges, if it could shoot in L.A., that'd be great. Oh, that would be amazing. I would like that at my house. We can just do a puppet show. In the kitchen. We'll do a podcast about us writing the three-shoot this movie.

Thanks so much. Thank you. Enjoy your bread. Let me know how you like the bread. Oh, I'm chill this breakfast. All right. We got it.