Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 272 - Kerri Kenney-Silver

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

The week on Breaking Bread Kerri Kenney-Silver joins us at the table! She talks starring in the hit show The Four Seasons (based on the 1981 film), the audition process, and working with Steve Carrell. Tom and Kerri also trade stories of almost getting kidnapped and much more. Enjoy!   Catch Kerri in The Four Seasons streaming now on Netflix!  Go to Wildgrain.com/PAPA for $30 off your first box, plus free croissants in every box!  ButcherBox is offering our listeners $20 off their first box and free protein for a year. Go to ButcherBox.com/papa to get this limited time offer and free shipping always. -------------- 0:00:00 Intro 0:00:58 Patreon Shoutout 0:01:22 Wild Grain Ad 0:02:31 Welcome, fried clams, and NYC 0:05:26 Almost getting kidnapped  0:08:45 Seeing theatre growing up and inflation 0:11:21 The Four Seasons film 0:15:00 Auditioning for Four Seasons  0:22:15 Niecy Nash audition for Reno 911!  0:25:00 The State 0:29:10 Wild Grain Ad 0:31:58 Butcher Box Ad 0:34:10 Peewee Herman doc, friendship, and influence 0:43:15 NY vs LA 0:46:00 Uncomfortable moment 0:47:54 Acting in The Four Season  0:51:10 The State to Reno transition 0:56:35 Just acting vs showrunning 1:00:02 Closeted gluten allergy and eating habits 1:04:10 Working out 1:05:22 Band, ticklish, snakes -------------- Tom Papa is a celebrated stand-up comedian with over 20 years in the industry. Watch Tom's new special "Home Free" out NOW on Netflix! Patreon.com - Patreon.com/BreakingBreadWithTomPapa Radio, Podcasts and more: https://linktr.ee/tompapa/ Website - http://tompapa.com/ Instagram -  https://www.instagram.com/tompapa Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tompapa Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/comediantompapa Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/tompapa #tompapa #breakingbread #comedy #standup #standupcomedy #bread #fourseasons #reno911 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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the story of her audition for us she was late and she came in so i don't know if she was purposefully unprepared but it was the most brilliant audition i had ever seen in my life she i don't even i can't even call it an audition she walked in and took over the building she she started doing this character she explained why she was late what had happened with her car what it happened with her mother that morning what and and it just what we were, I fell, hand to God. Yeah.

I fell off my chair laughing. Oh my God. Hand to God. She later told the story on a talk show. She said that someone asked her, her mother asked her when she got home. How did the audition go? And she said, well, I made a white lady fall off her chair. So I think it went pretty well.

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Oh, thank you for having me. You're having a nice little moment right now. Let me tell you something. Yeah. This is a nice little moment. Oh, yeah? I was a little starstruck when I walked in and saw the set. Not the set, the real restaurant that we're in in a basement in Hoboken, I want to say.

Yeah, we're in Hoboken. Right. Yeah, there's like a clam house upstairs. Fried clams. My dad and I used to go to Howard Johnson's in Times Square for fried clams. No. That memory just popped up. That is amazing.

Where'd you grow up? New York City in Connecticut. My dad was in Manhattan. My mom was in Connecticut. Oh, that's pretty cool. It was pretty cool. All the fried clams from Howard Johnson's you could eat. Oh, my God.

I remember the Howard Johnson's in Times Square. It was a thing. Yeah. Almost everyone I speak to of a certain generation, that was a thing to do. We would go there before the theater. Oh, man. So not to throw shade in any direction. Yeah.

Was it, what was it like coming? Because I know I had a friend who had, whose parents had an apartment in New York, in Manhattan. And when we went there at 12 and they just let us run around, we're like, this is probably, I don't think we're ever going to feel cooler than we do right now. I don't know. I never felt cool because it just was my existence. Yeah. And I had, you know, braces and a headgear.

Yeah. It's really, I don't think I ever had a moment of feeling cool. But yeah, the idea of. of it is very cool. Were you allowed to, like, run free? Yeah. I mean, yeah, I was. It was different.

It's funny because the city was more dangerous. Yeah. But we were able to go risk our lives freer. Yeah, they kind of figured we would figure it out, I guess. And some of us did. I went to, we would get a bunch of quarters and we would go to the arcades. Yeah. And I remember I was playing and this guy kept giving me quarters.

And I was like, this is great. People are so friendly in New York. This guy. And my buddy was like, all right, dude, it's time to go. I was like, oh, he wants to be my friend to this old man. And he started and he's followed us out. And he was like, where are you going? Where are you going?

And we started running and he came after us for a little bit, a couple blocks. And then we were out. He was real lonely. We were laughing the whole time. We were laughing. It was like, we could have been just kidnapped her and who knows what. But to your point, we never told her parents about it. No.

No, because they wouldn't let you go back to that arcade. We didn't think it was that big of a deal. You know, we were almost snatched off the street. Gosh, Tom. But you just kind of dealt with it. You just sparked a memory that I had forgotten about. It sounds like I'm making this other. based on you're being chased down the street by a man.

But this, something similar happened to me in Connecticut. A girlfriend and I were going to the beach who were probably like 10 or 11 years old. Right. We were by ourselves walking down the street in the summer, going to the beach. And a van pulled up. I can't believe I'm telling that. I haven't thought of this in decades. A van pulled up and it stopped.

And the back two doors. doors opened and there were curtains so you couldn't see in, but just dead roses flew out the back at us and an arm reached out to grab us. And we instinctively giggled. Yeah. And just ran away with our towels in our little copper tone bodies. And oh, ran back to the house and had a good giggle about never told my parents. Yeah. Yeah, you just dealt with it. There were a lot. of people running after children in the streets back in the day. It's really funny. Like when you say it, like, you know, in comedy, like, there's a lot of people like will make a funny reference about a van, you know, coming and pick you up. But that came out of reality. Yeah. That's really what was kind of going on.

Maybe it was the same guy. The roses move is weird. The roses. That's what made, that's what made me stop for a second and think, did I just make this up? Did my, did I go, oh, yeah, I have a story. like that too, Tom, but mine has something cooler in it. It is a weird. It is a weird move. Yeah, it's a weird move. Yeah. I wonder if that move, like, got some kids. Like, they're, you know.

Yeah. I mean, because that was also a time when they were putting people on milk cartons and saying, have you seen these kids. Right. And we're more frightened as parents now than our parents were. Oh. But there's no milk carton kids. No. Shout out to my buddies, the milk carton kids.

Great band name. Yeah, that is. It is a band. Oh, it already is. Yeah. What I meant to say was, I love your band name. I know it well. So, like, is it more dangerous now out on the streets for kids?

I don't know. Apparently not, but we just know more. I don't know because we don't know what's true anymore, Tom. You don't know where to check what's the statistic. Listen, my son is almost true. 20 years old. So he grew out of his leash. Right. I have a 20. Yeah, you have a 20. I have a 20. She's home for the summer. Yeah, me too. My son's home for the summer. They're great, but they're the first generation that really go through heavy social media and COVID. And they're,

they're definitely, they definitely dealt with stuff that we didn't, like, it was pretty basic to run from creepy people on the streets. That wasn't that big of a deal. Yeah, you could deal with it. We're faster than them. It was something to giggle about at a slumber party. But now to be like, have all this social media stuff. No. Yeah. It's harder for them. Yeah, it is harder.

Yeah. So when you, when you were a kid, were you enamored by Broadway and like going to see plays and stuff like that? I just can't wait for more memories to pop. Already I've thought of the clam, clam strips and Times Square and dead flowers being thrown in my face. I'm just going to sit here all day, relive. Yeah. We did go to a lot of plays. Yeah, my dad, we would go to TKTS and get tickets.

But I saw, you know, so many great first, I saw, of course, Annie. Yeah. I saw The Wiz, you know, with Stephanie Mills. And I feel like, well, back in my day, we saw the very first talkies. Yeah, it was really incredible now that I think about how I was so lucky to get to see all of those. iconic productions. Incredible. Like now,

I know this is, we're not going to do a now and then podcast. But one more thing of it was so great when we were little is like your parents could bring you to a play and not be broke for the next three months. That's true. Like now. Or even McDonald's. Yeah, right?

Yeah, exactly. It's so expensive to go to Broadway now. My daughter finds her way around it. We actually didn't make it sound so great back in the day. we're talking about getting almost abducted and eating clams in the middle of Times Square. So it's not like we're like, oh, you kids missed it. No, but just as a price point. Yes, as a price point, to be sure.

Yeah. Yeah, my son gets around too. He does his thing. He's more conscientious about money because he has to be than I did. I felt like we could just afford to do things. Like there were, there were cheaper options at the time. Yeah. And now people, you must have to sell your house to get.

It's insane. I look at, we went to Disney recently. My sister and her kids came into town. We went to Disney. And I'm just looking around going, I mean, we hadn't been in years. And I'm thinking, hold on, lunch was just how, what? Yeah. How are people, what is happening?

That's, I have the same thing. I was at a Dodger game. And, you know, someone bought my ticket for me. Like it was a work thing. and I just looked at what the prices of the, it was like a thousand dollars a ticket, a ticket for a regular season game. And I'm looking at the sea of people.

I'm like, how do they? How does everyone have thought? And then parking is probably, oh God, I hate this kind of conversation. Anyway, how are your hips? Are they good? No, but it is insane. Yeah.

It really is like grossly insane. Where did you grow up? New Jersey. Okay. Yeah. Right across the river. Or in between. Sure.

Oh, I know about the river. Yeah, when you buy the river. Oh, I cross that river all the time. When I was a boy, I watched four seasons. Ah, yes. Which was an Alan Alda film. Yes. And I was probably, I don't know, junior high.

I was 11, in 81. It came out in 81. Yeah. So, yeah, so I was in eighth grade. Okay. And I mean, that's, it's a pretty sophisticated moment. movie for an eighth grader to watch. But I remember watching it with my friends, like, repeatedly. I don't know if it just came out on cable or whatever it was, but we had access to it,

and we watched it over and over again. It was so special. That movie was so special. Isn't that wild? Yeah. I said, I was telling Alan Alda about this phenomenon, and he was so surprised, because Tina Faye said the same thing. She said, I don't know why. I watched this film as an 11-year-old. Yeah. And I too, and it must have been on cable one summer over and over and over. Yeah.

But I also, that didn't mean I had to sit and watch it, but I did. Yeah. And I think part of it is because the tone of it, well, for one thing, I didn't, entertainment in my world as a child was, not broken into now this is for you, this is for children, and this is for adults. It was just my family loved comedy. If comedy was on, comedy albums, be they appropriate or not, we would listen. It was just comedy. And so if, you know, a movie came out that was great, we watched it. It wasn't, oh, you shouldn't see this because you're a child. It is amazing. There was no,

there wasn't, we weren't fed all of this kid's stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't like, And then you have Carol Burnett, Alan Alda, that cast. That cast. Just insane. My Mercedes. I know. We were just kids like on the way to the pool just screaming. And Rita Milano.

My Mercedes is thinking. I forgot to ask if they did that. I mean, they obviously did that practically and that must just be sitting at the bottom of that little lake. Right. Yeah, exactly. The actress who played your role. Yes. What was her name?

Sandy Dennis. Sandy Dennis. God, she was special. The 70s had those films had those Sandy Dennis characters who worked a lot who just were emotionally just like available. She was just a nerve, just a raw nerve. Yeah. Yeah. So when you get called to audition for that, I'm sure the journey is a little different than what I see, which is, oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense.

You have that same kind of a, of a, like, you're vibrating. Comedically vibrating is the way I would put it. That's a compliment, I must say. Thank you, because you don't want to be comedically dead. No, but there's like a quirk. There's a quirk that you have that she had. You're very different in some ways. But were you intimidated?

Oh, I'm still intimidated by it. I can't, I couldn't believe I got even the audition. And I really thought it was probably that, I mean, no offense to the casting world, because, you know, they're who employ us. But I really assumed that this was meant for somebody and that they were just going through the exercise of bringing people in. I don't know for what, but that happens sometimes. I'll bust my butt on an audition and then find out, oh, this was all along meant for so-and-so. This was meant for so-and-so. They couldn't make the deal.

They needed options so they could be to pay them less money. Right. Or some kind of leverage or something. Yeah. But I really never imagined that it was a real situation, which is I think why I wasn't as nervous as I probably should have been. You have to put yourself on tape? No. Sherry Thomas is doing in-person auditions.

And if you don't know Sherry Thomas, she is the mother of all mothers of casting directors and just getting to go in for her because she does, you know, handmade's tail in these. you know, incredible pieces with such depth that are not just, you know, the sketch comedy sort of world I've been in. Yeah. So I was thrilled just to get to audition. That's amazing. And I assumed by the nature of the Sandy Dennis role in the film that it would be a smaller part that she would really sort of disappear. Yeah. Right. And I didn't know until I got the part that and the script started rolling in. Oh, my, I kept saying, well, this is the episode where I die. Clearly, I will die. Right, yeah.

And I didn't die. I couldn't believe I didn't die. And just kept coming back. So you had no idea when you got it, how many episodes you did. Well, no, that is untrue. I knew by nature of it that I was contracted to do seven out of eight episodes. Oh, wow.

But to me, that meant that they were hedging their bets. Like, let's keep her nearby in case the real stars get sick and we need to do a scene with her. Right. But certainly not that I would have the breadth of the breadth of the best. the role that I ended up having. Oh, man, what a treat. I can't believe it still. When you, I don't want to give too much away from the journey of it, but that,

when you're unwrapping, unwrapping the, the, my wife and I were just cringing, just cringing, just like, oh, our heart broke for you. It was just like, because you could see yourself doing, being in that kind of a situation. You're thinking so hopeful. And it just keeps going on and you know it's not going well. Oh, my Lord. The writing is, is, you know, it feels like every actor's dream, the writing, but also all these bits that I got to play feel like monologues from the next book of actors auditioned monologues. Yeah, right.

And even these moments of like you say, the unwrapping scene. at the bar. Even that, just the time that they allowed that to play out. Cudos to them, because a lot of people would say, okay, we need to get on with the business, get on with the story. But in that moment to them, that was the story. And it served its purpose. It really did. It's so awkward. Did they drag out the audition? Did you get it? No. So I had the initial audition was just with Sherry. Thomas in person and that was my first in-person audition since before COVID. Yeah, I haven't been in one. No, it is just not happening. So I was just happy to literally just happy to be there. Just happy to be in a room.

Something to do. Yeah, you get a little pass and you get to park your car. Yeah, you get to park your car. God, and go see people. So it was, that was a dream. And then about a month later maybe they said, we're going to do a Zoom. callback with Tina, Tracy, and Lang. And that's when I started to get scared. You know, like, oh, this isn't just a make-a-wish situation. I really am getting to have a shot at this. Right. And that I did from home with Sherry Thomas and then pretty soon found out after that. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Oh, man. That's so nice. I know. I'm happy for that. Me. I'm happy for me. Yeah. Me too. I mean, it's really, it's such a strange.

I have a good friend of my daughter, who's my other daughter's 22, 23, and she got a job at a really good casting agency. And she was so excited here in L.A. And she was so, like, you can't believe it. Yeah. And went in, and she was the only one in the office. Oh, my gosh. Even though I had casting person, everything just on tape, Zoom. And she was just so depressed.

She thought she had made it to this, like, show business, you know, really great space. And she was the only one. Her job was to open the office. It's such a shame because it's such an important part. So I've been on the other side, you know, with Reno 911. I'm one of the creators and showrunners. So we did all the, with Julie Ashton, our brilliant casting agent. We did all the auditions with the actors.

So myself and Tom Lennon and Ben Grant would sit in a room and we would call people in, you know, all the brilliant people would come in UCB and groundlings. And we would say, okay, hi, did you call the cops or were the cops called on you? Which one of us do you want? Let's go. And we would improvise with them. And it was so important to, I mean, chemistry is so important and just seeing how someone is in a room and how they, and also just as an. an actor, I am not a lighting professional. I don't know how to do sound. I, I'm barely able to put on a blouse, you know, it's just, it's not my forte. I know. You've got to get the sound, the lighting,

the, should I sit, should I stand? And then I'm pre-recording my own voice sometimes and I'm talking back to myself. It's just, it's a mess. It's a mess. I hate it. Rachel and I did one in hear this last week. You did a safe. We did pretty good. We'll never hear from him again. Hey, you don't know. You don't know.

You don't know. You don't know. Sometimes you do. Here's the thing, because you were on the other side of it. You pretty much know in the first two minutes. I feel like there should be a first round of the auditions, especially on tape. Yeah. Where say hello to us and tell us what you're up to.

Give us a couple minutes. And they go through and they say, yes, no, yes, no, yes. Because they can tell. You come on. They're like, we love them, but not now. They've got a funny haircut. Gansome weight. Yeah, but don't you feel sometimes like, there were some people that I felt they warmed up.

And I said, oh, this is who. Now, then there are people like Nisi Nash and Wendy McClendon Kovie and Cedric Yarbrough and Carlos Oz Rocky who walk into a room and you're just like, what is that? Yeah. I mean, Nisi came in. I don't know if you ever heard the story of her audition for us. She was late and she came in. I don't know if she was purposefully unprepared, but it was the most brilliant audition I had ever seen in my life. You can't even call it an audition.

She walked in and took over the building. She started doing this character. She explained why she was late, what had happened with her. her car, what had happened with her mother, that morning. And it just, what we were, I fell, hand to God, I fell off my chair laughing. Oh my God. Hand to God. She later told the story on a talk show. She said that someone asked her, her mother asked her when she got home, how did the audition go? And she said, well, I made a white lady fall off her chair. So I think it went pretty well. Those kinds, that kind of personality, you know, Wendy's the same.

They walk in. They walk in and you're just like, who are you? I want to know you. I want to be, I want to do everything with you. I don't walk in. I don't necessarily walk in like that. But I guess it depends on the role. You would always hear stories of that, right?

When you were first coming up of like so and so. I remember like Jay Moore went in and audition for Jeff Foxworthy show. And they said that he just walked in and everyone's there with their script and online. And he walked in and did a whole bunch of, I might be a redneck jokes for Jeff Foxworthy in the room and just starts killing. And I don't know if it's true, but I think it is. Jay was so gutsy at the time. He's killing. He's doing these redneck jokes for Jeff Foxworthy.

And he just opened the door to the rest of the. action. It was like, you guys can all go home. I got it. And close the door. And you would, you would hear those stories. And I always wanted to be one of those stories. But you're that guy or you're not. And I think if you're going to try and put on that guy, oh, I don't think that's going to go well. No, that's not going to. Which is why I really try and just show up how I am, who I am, because otherwise, I mean, it's one thing, you know, you fail a lot. Yeah. It's so long as I'm failing as myself. Yeah. But if I'm failing as some big whirling, you know, tap dancing lunatic that I'm not, I think

that would make it sadder when you're going home and you're taking off the feather boa, just sadly sticking it back in the Amazon bag. What years were the, when did you start the stage? We did the pilot in 2000. In 2000. And then the most recent project was two years ago. we did a Christmas movie. Right.

That was our third. So 2000, and you were all friends from school? Tom Lennon and I met at Northwestern Summer Theater Camp when we were 16. Amazing. And then we met Ben the next year at NYU when we started the state, the new group, which became the state. And we've been working, the state has been working together for 37 years. Amazing. We just, we just, I just came from the Tribeca Film Festival.

Matthew, this, let me just say, this poor guy, this incredible director of our documentary that just premiered at the tribe. It's called Long Live the State.

The man's name is Matthew Pernicero. I have been saying in the press Matthew Pernichiro for two months. Anyway, Matthew, your film is fantastic. And yeah,

we just had an incredible reunion at Tribeca last week. That's so great. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. 37 years. I remember knocking around New York as a young stand-up and hearing about you all and you were going and killing.

Where would you perform live? Oh, we did just theaters, little tiny theaters. Like, I mean. Lower East Side. Lower East Side, but a lot of NYU theaters. Right. And then also we played it a Violet's basketball game. That's always great for Skell.

We tried to do Washington Square Park one day. Oh, yeah. Hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, just little clubs, little theaters. I think most of them aren't there anymore. Was it MTV that picked up first? It was, yeah.

92. 92? 92? Yeah, that's when we became, we started out as the new group when we were at NYU, and then when we went to MTV, we changed her name to the state, as if any, that name is anybody. I don't know. But I remember it being very cool.

I started in 93. Okay. And so it was. So we were kicking around the same time there. Yeah. And our offices were up in Times Square. Oh, really? Clam strips.

Clam strips were gone, I believe, at that point. No more clam strips. I had grown up a lot by then, Tom. Yeah. But our office was the TRL studio. What became the TRL studio, that room was our office. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. That's quick that you guys, who found you guys?

Well, Doug Herzog at comedy set, sorry, at MTV. Laura, yeah. I mean, it was like back then, I thought of them as this, this, these older people. Yeah. They're grownups. They wear suits. And now I look back at the pictures. They were kids working at MTV, essentially. Jim Sharp was our was our producer and then he of course went on to work at MTV Comedy Central and you know but they we were all just kind of because who will who hires kids right out of college for their own television show you know but it was a cool time there was like a lot of it was a creative time in New York I mean cats yeah yeah yeah it was there was so many cool people working men taking

risks taking chances with these young groups. It was very, it was very punk rock. Yeah. And you guys were so funny. And I remember like, you know, because you're just eager to like, like, digest anything that was going on. And you guys were like, oh, this is cool. It kind of felt like you were going to be like our kids in the hall, like the New York version of,

you know, of that. And it was like, okay, they're doing something cool. Except there were 10 times more of us. Yeah. We had plenty to spare. We had plenty to spare. Yeah. But none of them fell off.

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great food at the ready in your home and a great way to support our podcast. You guys are the best. Did you see the peewee documentary? I sure did. Was that, was that experimental theater part that you were talking about? Yes, very similar. Yeah. Very similar. Avongar, kind of just whatever. Yes, we were naked rolling around on the floor a lot. Right. You know, we used to say, call it, breathing out of your I mean, it was phenomenal. Yeah. It was character development. Level of freedom.

Level of freedom being comfortable in your body. And it was that time in New York City. I'm just so grateful for that whole experience. Just incredible teachers. Did you grow a lot in that environment? I did. Yeah. I did.

I was playing music at that time. And I was the new group was happening, you know, living in New York City. in the late 80s, early 90s, and in that environment, in the East Village, it just was, I'm so grateful for that experience. Yeah. Yeah. How'd you like the doc? I thought it was gut-wrenchingly beautiful.

How about you? Same. Yeah. He was a huge influence. Yeah, me too, and became a friend later in life. Oh, really? You were friends with pee-wee? Yeah, so he did, I think he may have reached out to us.

Don't quote me on that. Somehow, he did the Reno, first Reno movie. He did? He played Nick Swardson's father. Oh. Yeah. And we became friends there. Wow.

And I just, do you know around what you? Worship that man. That would be? Once again, all the gummies that I do, it's so hard for me to remember dates. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm high a lot because I'm cool. But I'm not out of hacky-sacky-sacking. No, no, no, no.

This was Reno. This was our first Reno movie. Which was like when in your run? So in our run, good Lord. Like halfway. This would have been, let's see. I was going to keep asking you. I'm going to keep asking you number questions.

It must have been around because I think I had just had my son. I had just had my son. So it has to be about 20 years ago. Got it. Yes. Reno was on for how long? Well, we kept coming back. Like the original like.

The original ended. Oh, Tom, don't do this to me. Doesn't someone have an abacus? Good God. Ten years. I'm just trying to frame it with peewee, like where he was at. Oh, well, he, let me tell you, it was sort of like he was very happy to be there.

He, I think, was just starting to come back out into the world, like feeling getting his legs again and feeling like, yes, people love you. Come do these things. Yeah. but he had not been out and around, I think, at least, you know, very visibly at that time for a while. Yeah. My husband had worked with him on Murphy Brown. Oh, wow. Yeah, my husband's a cinematographer.

He had worked with him on Murphy Brown. Oh, they showed that scene in the dock, actually. Yes, exactly. He was, excuse me, he was, he was so loved. That was the weird thing about watching the dock. He was so loved, ran into this trouble. But that's not how the public saw him. Yeah, and it wasn't his trouble.

It wasn't real trouble. That's the other thing was, you know, I would get like a mother protective of him when somebody would say, wait, they would see that he texted me and they would say, you're friends with him. Isn't, didn't he? And I would go, stop. No, he didn't. Yeah.

There's nothing. There's no reason why that, that's, no. Yeah. And it would absolutely break my heart, especially the type of person that he was. And then going to his memorial service, if you could call it that. It was a celebration. But seeing this just airplane hanger essentially filled with people that just loved him and you realized, like I felt so close to him. I was nowhere near close to him when you look at the amount of people that he made feel that way. So many people felt. like you're the only person in the room. That's how he made you feel. Amazing. Yeah. So you became tight after it.

Well, I don't know how, I don't know what you would say. Well, you're texting and you were like pals and. Yeah, yeah. It's so great. I would love to have gotten a text from him. But even his texts were special. Yeah, his texts were special, but he texted, not to make you feel bad, but he texted a million people.

He really was like he would bring you into his, into his world like that. And he just sort of collected. people. Amazing. Yeah. What was weird about that, and maybe it's just where I was at in my time, I don't remember the second charges, like the, all that stuff, which I don't even want to give oxygen to. Yeah.

But like that part I don't even remember. Good. It was just that first one when he, you know, got caught in the movie theater. But the other one, I don't think it ended up sticking as much as he thought. But, I mean, just that, yeah, it's complicated. It's complicated. and doesn't need to be. No.

Because anyone could say anything about anyone. Which is he was, he was correct in that going back into the closet was actually pretty important for him to get his career. It was at that time, like if he had been out, he probably wouldn't have had the success. Look, I was not. I think you're absolutely right. Which is so maddening to me. Maddening. But I also was not close enough to him that I ever had discussions about that with him.

Yeah. By any stretch of the imagination. I feel like the fact that he would feel close to people but still didn't feel like he could share that kind of, you know, that part of him. It seemed like even like the closest of the close. Yeah. It's just. absolutely heartbreaking to me. But what a beautiful tribute to him. He's so charming. And I'm, and I am so glad that he fought for how he wanted it to look and how he wanted it to be. I know that

the filmmaker mentioned that it was difficult, but that was his story. Yeah. And I'm, I am glad that he me too that he felt that he was you know yeah that he got to tell his story he got to put the final thing on it it was really really special yeah oh just the way he would talk and give that little look he was so charming he was just so little magical being can I tell you a secret yeah devilish yeah devilish and even the way he was doing it in the interviews oh you know you don't so good you know you it's not really me, or is it? Or maybe no, it's not, but it could be. No.

Like all that playful stuff. Just a playful little stinker. Can I tell you a secret? Yeah. When I was in high school, I was an athlete. Yeah. I was funny. Like, it was class clown and stuff, but I was an athlete.

Oh, you got to be both. Yeah. But I couldn't do plays or any of that stuff because I was always an athlete. And this is when this was Peewee's prime time when they show all the people dressing like them. There was a talent show at art high school. And my friend Melissa, Marissa, gave me her little bicycle. And I dressed, I found a tiny suit. Yeah.

And I hosted the talent thing as peewee, which was like, for me, it was like coming out as a, as a performer. Yeah. Because I like, I wrote sketches. I had like bits. I had all this stuff. I wrote through the school. But it was all because of peewee. because like I was doing his voice as all of America was,

but that was like my first time, like, doing stand-up was, like, doing it as pee-wee. That makes me emotional because isn't that interesting? I'm sure the irony was lost on you at the time, but, you know, he did that character in a way, as you see in the documentary, to sort of express himself but also protect himself in a lot of ways. and you were kind of using it to do the same, to say, I'm also this, is this okay? Is it okay that I'm this? It's not really me.

It's a character. Yeah, that's right. But if it were me, would that be okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's really, really kind of amazing. Pretty amazing. He was special. Are you a country mouse or a city mouse?

I'm a city mouse. You are. I live in the country, but I'm a city mouth. Yeah. Would you ever go back to New York? I would like we have been talking about also getting a place there again. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Yeah. We do the same. I think it just needs to be a little bit of both because I do get squirrely, you know, in both places. I feel the same way. I'm like, and we've been having this discussion, my wife and I since we met. Yeah. And there is no winner. There's no winner.

Yeah. So let's just go back and forth like we did before. And then you start to, I don't know about you, but you start to do that. you start to put, and then you're like, okay, wait, this is what this is going to entail. You know, what do you mean? Just the logistics of, of, believe it or not, they're not giving these places out for free, which I just found out. It's true.

Well, I think you can go. I was already to move into a brownstone in the West Village and then I found out. Wouldn't that be great? Yeah. I always take pictures of like they always have the placard outside, like for sale. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I always take pictures when I never call.

Yeah. I don't want to know how expensive. Just dream about it. Maybe that's something I could dream about. That would be nice. Do you fly? Oh, you don't dream. But tonight, when I take all those gummies, I'm going to be flying high.

I'm not even going to have to close my eyes. It's just going to be happening. Are you happy that I baked you this bread? I am happy. No, let me explain something to you. Okay. Oh, no. I hate myself.

Uh-oh. Is it rhyme with mutton? I got to say. It does. It does? but my my husband and son will devour it. Tell me about your, tell me what you're going to say. I just don't even like to, it's so, I can't have gluten.

I'm not celiac. You're not. No, I'm not celiac, but I haven't had on purpose gluten for the last eight years. Eight years. A couple times that I've had it, I get real swollen. It's so boring. I don't like to talk about it. I don't like to be it.

I know, but it, yeah. I'm cool. I'm tough. I smoke two cartons a day. I eat Snickers bars. I'm from New York City. That's the me I want to be. I know. But instead, I'm just the lady that doesn't dream, doesn't eat gummies, and can't have gluten. I want to be the guy with like a backpack and a camera that just goes, travels that way. I'm not. Just pull out your wet journal every now and then draw a picture of a herring. Roll my own cigarettes. No. I get to a place. and I'm like, where's a cheesecake factory?

Yeah. Yeah, I want to feel comfortable. Someone heat up this bidet. We do a thing on this program called an uncomfortable moment. Didn't it already happen? I don't know. Okay. Maybe.

All right. A lot of times in this business, it's, you know, it's luck, it's auditioning. It's being seen by the right people, all that kind of stuff. Sometimes you have to put stories. out there and start your own. You have to be your own hype man, woman. This is what I've been doing and I guess it's somewhat of a manifesting

situation but I guess in public. So I put it out there that when season two of the four seasons comes back, I get to play your love interest. I don't see why not. I don't understand why we're sponsored by Elmer's Glew.

That's the only part of it I don't get, but this makes perfect sense to me. Right? Absolutely. I think we would be good together. Hey, why not? Toby Huss, that happened. Right? Are you willing to show your entire butt?

Yes. All right. Yeah. You know what? I feel like it's weird that I'm making the call, but you're in? Thank you. We'll text Tina about it later. I'm sure she'll be fine.

She would be cool with it. Totally. Will it come back? We're back. You're back? We are. I didn't even know that. Yeah, they've been in the writer's room for a couple, three weeks now, I think, and we start shooting again in the fall. Holy Toledo. Congratulations. Last season we shot in Hudson Valley, and so that was amazing. I would assume that's where we'll be, yeah. Oh, that's amazing. So this has to happen quickly. Yes. So get your, get everything shaved up or whatever you need to do. How did you how did you how much did you love the role? Oh, I mean, I loved it. I love it. I love her.

What's your favorite part of her? I love that I can sink into it. I don't have to put on something if that makes any sense. There are so, I get cast sometimes as the sort of know-it-all. And I don't. And I, and those outfits are uncomfortable. know it all is wear uncomfortable shoes and tight pants. And she wears comfy sweaters and her hair is a mess.

And she's surprised by everything. And so all I have to do is show up and react. Yeah. And be my age. She has a power though. She also. She has a power and I think she may come into more power. I would assume she's at least trying to find what her power is moving forward.

But I know nothing about. what's coming next, nor do I want to know. Right. How long did it take for you and Steve Correll to stop fighting on set? It hasn't stopped. I just heard from his lawyer on the way in here right now. I want to say the ninth lawsuit. You know, he's impossible to work with.

Yeah. He's kind of, I guess, the opposite of Paul Rubin's. There we go. There we go. Yeah. Steve, I mean, come on. Yeah, he's a dream. He's just such a mush.

He's a dream. And I, you know, every, almost every scene I had to stop myself from just in the middle, just breaking and going, oh, my God, you're Steve Carrell. Coleman Domingo, what are you doing? Tina Faye? I just, it's still shocking. And I need to stop saying that because it's getting a bit ridiculous. Yeah, you deserve it. No, that's not what I mean.

Yeah, I know. But after a while, it's like, get over it. I know, but can I give you from the outside? Yeah. From the outside world. I know what you mean because I've been in situations where you're like, you watch yourself, like, when it comes out or whatever. And you're like, how did that happen? How did I get with those two people?

Yeah. But anecdotally, from the outside, it's the most non-surprising thing. You completely, yeah, you should be there with those people. I thought you were going to say, you complete me. And you complete me. That's maybe a step too far. That's if I get to be a part of this next season. Okay.

Well, thank you for saying so. I'm not blowing smoke. Thank you. It's like literally just watching you for so long in so many funny things. And you, yeah, you completely are up here of those people. Thank you. Well, next season, when I come back here, I am going to be so full of myself.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I know. Then you will have people. Sometimes we get people that bring people. Oh, all my people. My people are going to have people.

And I'm going to say, of course I'm in this. Of course I'm great in this. Can I ask a fan question? Sure. I don't know the answer to. And I'm sure you talked about it a bunch, but I don't know. How does how does, how do you go from the state to Reno? How did, how did that happen?

Do you mean? Yeah. So Viva variety was in between. Okay. Oh, I forgot about Viva variety. Which was my favorite show we ever did. It was really fun. It was very short-lived.

Yeah. There's no reruns because the bands we had run DMC. I mean, you could not afford the music anymore. We had Duran Duran. I mean, it was insane. And where was that on? Comedy Central. That was Comedy Central.

And that was a fake European variety show. Tom Lennon and I have played Mr. and the former Mrs. Lopan. And the conceit was that we were huge in Europe. And we're gracing your presence in America. And Michael Ian Black played Johnny Blue Jeans with only a minimal understanding of American culture. But like 20 years too late. It was such a fun show. The look of it, my hair styles had water fountains coming out of my head.

I got to wear one-of-a-kind couture gowns and we smoked, we chain-smoked. It was so fun. We got to do musical numbers and Stacey Keech and Whoopi Goldberg and Shelley Long and now car. It was a blast. So that was in between. And then Tom, Ben and I wrote a sketch show for Fox. And they did not pick it up. What happened was by the time we got to the table read, they said, yeah, we're not as into this anymore.

And so Tom or Ben said, what if we just did a, we've spent all the money now. We can't, you know, switch gears on writing something new. What if we spoof something already on Fox, which is cops? So we'll rent some cop uniforms. We called the cast. Now, we had hired the cast that you know of, as Reno 911 to do a sketch show. They were not hired to do Reno.

Reno didn't exist. So we called them and said, this is crazy, but we're going to get fired. So would you like to try? Have you ever done improv? Some people said yes. Some said, no, we had not.

So he said, we're going to try this. We're going to just run around with a camera. We're going to improvise a spoof of cops. And we did. And was this with the backing of Fox or anybody? the Baccafax. They sort of went, yeah, oh, sure. Yeah.

Whatever. You guys are still here. So we did it. And they said, thank you. It's great. No, thank you. And they put it on the shelf. And where'd you do?

I'm sorry, where'd you do that in New York? That was here. No, that was here. Because we moved here with Viva Variety second season. Got it. Second or third season. So we said, three years passed. And Comedy Central called.

And they said, we have a slow. year, is there any, do you guys have any ideas? Because we had, you know, had a couple of successes now for Viacom with the state and Viva. And we said, jokingly, yeah, we've got that pilot that's been sitting on the shelf at Fox and so they bought it. Wow. Three years later. Yeah. And thank God it happened the way it did because Fox, we would have been canceled in a week. And we would never have gotten away with what we got away with on that show. Yeah, no way. No way. I mean, we, Comedy Central did not give us a single note. They didn't even know we were still on the air.

They're like, you're still airing? Fantastic. Yeah. And just went off by yourselves. Yeah, we did. Yeah. And it feels that way. Yeah.

You know? It was so great. It was so good. But I feel like it was on a long time. It was on a long time. And then we got canceled. And then Jeffrey Katzenberg called and said, I've got this idea. It's called Quibi.

This is just before COVID. And so we said, well, Jeffrey Katzenberg's calling. We don't care. what the idea is. Yeah. Just say yes. We shot a season for them. Quibi obviously was a no-go.

And then it was bought by Roku Paramount Plus and we did more episodes. Right. Two more movies and. God. Amazing. Crazy. I think was it Quibi when you, I think you came on my radio show. Maybe it was when Quibi.

Man. Let's just keep saying Quibi. What a bust. What a bust. The timing. My son still teases me. about it. If we go into a grocery store, he goes, Mom, I think that guy recognizes Carrie Kenny from Quibi. We'd like to thank the good people at Quince for sponsoring today's

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for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash Papa. But, I mean, they gave so much money to so many projects. They were very generous, and Jeffrey Katzenberg is an absolute angel. He was so gung-ho. It just broke my heart, the whole thing. The timing.

The timing. The timing. It was, it was, it was supposed to be, people are watching things on their mobile because they're out and about and then COVID hit. And no one was watching anything on your mobile device. I mean, you couldn't have written a worse. It really. Story for that.

But, but we got it back and. It's actually a good premise for a comedy. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Well. Well, not for him, but yeah. Do you feel like, because all these things are self-generated, really, and then you get to audition and come in and have other people write and take notes and deal with the network and stuff.

This is like, I love it. It's got to feel so light. It's so wonderful to just. Also, this part, this role is, you know, the first time that people are getting to. see me do any sort of dramatic work as well. And so to be able to just focus, to just, all you need for me is to be Ann on your TV show. And I'm not worried that we're going to lose the chicken by 4 p.m. or we're going to have to pay more for the chicken.

And, you know, what are we going to do if it rains on Tuesday? We're going to have to move the motorcycle setting on fire to Thursday. Like to just show up and it reminds me of being back in drama school where it's just show up and do your job and your job is to deliver this character full stop. Yeah. And not have to have your mind anywhere else. I love it all. I love all the jobs. Yeah, that's fun.

But this one in particular at this stage in my career, it feels like a grown-up job. Yeah. And it's getting response in a sort of, we're getting it back at us. People are appreciating. It's making people feel good. Yeah. And isn't that wonderful. Yeah.

It's really funny. I mean. It's so, their writing is just. Yeah. And I'll be honest, because I love that movie so much, it was like, what did they think they're doing? Yeah. Right?

And when you love something like, it's like. Of course. Does this have to be made into something? Yeah, you don't sing Janice Joplin. She did it. Right. Yeah. And then it becomes something just, it's just like the springboard for this contemporary comedy. Yeah. It's really, do you still want to develop things? Like, do you, do you write on your own? Do you, I don't like writing on my own. Yeah. I will if I have to. But Tom Lennon and I write together. He's always writing. He's always writing. So we've had something we've been working on for a couple of years. Yeah, I will always I will always make my own work. I am with my partners. I think it's, I enjoy it, but also sometimes it's the only way to get work is to make your own work and to have control and all that

great stuff. And luckily we have a lot of people in the industry who we are friends with over the almost 40 years. Amazing. You know, so we have a lot of, a lot of homes that welcome us. We're very lucky in that way. Yeah. Yeah, I remember I had interviewed Tom and the amount he cranks out. That brain, it never stops. He's just so brilliant. You can't help it. Yeah.

When you're great, you can't help it. Yeah. It just can crank great stuff out. Yeah. people who write a lot. No, our balance is ridiculous. My one joke to his 30 scripts. Yeah. I'm like, my joke was pretty funny, right? He's like, yeah, we cut that. Oh, okay, that's fine. What do you, so you can't eat gluten. Can we just keep harping on this? No, I'm just, I don't want to harp on it. What other things are not fun about you? So say you have a birthday and someone wants to cook for

And you're like, what I really would like to have is... You know what? I don't say that ever. You never say that. I also don't usually tell people that I don't eat gluten. So if someone invites me over for dinner party and they say, do you have any allergies? I go, I'm good. I will make it work.

Right. I will eat this plastic leaf if I have to. But I don't like to make other people have to. Now, there's two schools on that. Some people say that's actually rude because the person wants to make you happy. and they want to, I don't like that attention. I know what you mean. You know, I just don't like to be like that.

Do you have a favorite food? Do I have a favorite food? Do I love food, but I'm a real simple gal, Tom. I'm a real cheap date. Right. Pretty much you can guess at each type of restaurant what my choice will be. Mexican restaurant. Right.

The girl loves her two chicken tacos. Right. with the mild salsa. I was born in Fort Wayne, Indiana, so you have to cut me a little bit of slack. Yeah. I love, you know, I mean, it's so sad. It's, it's, it's, I'm not very adventurous. My husband is very adventurous with food, so he gets me out of my comfort zone.

Right. My, my, one of my biggest fears is like a tasting menu kind of situation, but then I always leave going, oh, I didn't know I like doctor pus, you know? So it just takes me a little while. Yeah. For our anniversary, we did a tasting thing when we were in Hawaii. And my wife is, she has some fish, but mostly vegetarian. And she was, I said, I'm going to, when our kids ask, how was the big night out?

How was the big tasting menu at this fancy, schmancy place? My reaction is, your mother was worried. Every time they came and they were like, and now she would be like, oh. I would be exactly same way with a big smile. Oh, this flambay of I don't know what. Yeah, giving it to me. Oh, wonderful. I am not eating this.

You guys eat it. I don't love there's certain texture. It's just a thing. What's the worst texture? Cottage cheese. I don't understand it. Why? It is a weird one.

Guess what? Yeah. I've never had it. You never had it? No, but I'm mad at it and I don't want it to exist. And Boba, Boba? Yeah. What are we doing?

You don't suck things up a straw. It's a choking hazard. We did a, Rachel and I did a video for, it was cottage cheese and blueberries on toast, which is a thing. No, it's not. It is. It wasn't so bad. I always thought cottage cheese was like, I remember my mom being on a diet when I was a kid and putting it on melba toast. Yeah, you'd have, mom would have, she'd have a tab.

Right. Cottage cheese melba toast. Melba toast, remember that. And after eight mint and a merit ultralight. Oh, those were the days Calgon take me away. Yeah. And never lost a pound. No, and never lost a pound.

Oh, my mom had one of those. It was one of those. It was a piece of wood with ball bearings. And she'd twist while she was washing dishes. Right. Because it was supposed to make your waist skin. Yeah. I don't think that makes any sense.

No, they're not around now. They're not around anymore. They're around as much as the machine that has the towel that shakes your belly back and forth. I don't think that really sold either. Do you have to work out or are you just naturally beautiful? Well, oh, Tom. Have we zoomed in? I should work out more because I'm learning.

As it turns out, if we don't work out, we're apparently going to pass away. No. This is what I heard. Really? Let's bring in the doctors. Okay. I just, I'm learning like, ew, it's so gross to talk about it. It's as gross to talk about it as the gluten.

But like, yeah, osteoporosis would become a thing if you have to start doing weights. I don't want to do weights. Do you have to? I feel like Sophia Loren didn't. Thank you. Right? Can she die at 13? No.

I think she's still alive. She's still around. Yeah. I got to call her. Cigarettes. Yes. Red wine probably. And just handfuls of butter.

Yeah. I'm like Sophia Loren. You're Sophia Loren. So in other words, no, Tom. I'm just beautiful. I don't work out. There you go. Please pass the butter.

And Steve Carrell's lucky to work with me. He's so lucky. Do you still have a band? I mean, no. No. I mean, yes. I feel like I saw you. Were you performing recently?

No. I was just singing a song with Dad Jam Band. Oh, okay. Which is so fun. Yeah. It's so fun. It's just like live karaoke with Ken Marino's voice is incredible and David's amazing drummer. No, but my band has not played live together since.

the 90s. Right. But I was just with the, with the drummer last week. I mean, we would, of course, love to play again. And they're talking about doing a vinyl, reissue box set of all of our albums, which would be so fun. So never say never. Yeah. Well, you're in Rolling Stone. Yeah, whatever, guys, I'm in Rolling Stone. So don't make a big deal out of it. Yeah. Geez. Are you ticklish? I am. You are? Where? Where? Oh, like armpits, of course, but then also like in here. It's a good one.

I made you tickless just tell you about it. Yes, you did. Didn't you want to like, did you ever go to Paul Rubin's house that was in the documentary? See, this is what I. With all the wild animals and everything. No, and he would always say, like, I've got to have you over or I would say, okay, well, now we're hot. And he would say, I've got to come there. I've got to come there.

But after I saw the documentary, I think it made me realize, I think he wanted to have the, wanted that to happen. But really, there was a very small group that he felt really safe doing that. Yeah. And they were all animals. And they were all animals. But I feel honored just to know that that was, that it was even a conversation. It's amazing. Yes, I can't believe it.

Just to be anywhere in the orbit of that human. What animal don't you like? Oh, I don't like snakes. Yeah. I'm as mad at them as I am at cottage cheese. Imagine a snake with cottage cheese on it. This starts arguments in my house. My son thinks they're adorable and they just make me angry.

I don't understand them. Yeah. What do you mean? He likes them? He loves them and then he sort of taunts me with the idea of them. My friend gave me a snake as a present. What? Yeah. And it was a boa constrictor. And it was only this long when it started. What are you saying? And it was like cool. It was like, you know, like a, like a tiny version of a boa constrictor. A real snake?

Real snake. When was this in the 60s? Right out of college. Okay. That's okay. Yeah. I thought you meant like a couple years ago. No, no. I was. Because that's like restraining order stuff. That's not a friend. Yeah. Well, yeah, it didn't work out. It just kept growing. First you have to feed a baby. little, little, they would call them, um, little preemie. We don't have to go into it. Little baby mice, like, like, like fetal mice. Did my son get to you? And then it would get bigger. No, he didn't tell me to say this.

And then, uh, and then you have to feed them bigger life. And then it, it just kept growing. Of course. Really quickly. Yeah. And then it became just this giant snake. What did you do with it? In a fish tank.

Uh, and every time you walk by it, it would try and bite you. the glass. See, this makes me angry. Yeah. And I gave it back to him. Oh, good. Yeah. In the night. I just slipped it into his car. Thank you for the gift. He was crazy. He had a, he, he, he loved snakes so much that he built like a habit trail around his apartment that the snake could just go. No. My band, uh, Cake Lake had a, we recorded in a studio in New York that had a snake. That was like the feature of the studio. I was so disturbed by it that I was like, is there a back entrance?

When we were doing Viva Variety, there was an act. We had variety acts on and there was an act, a guy that would zip himself into a sleeping bag full of rattlesnakes. And I was supposed to be the one to come out and say, everyone, the fabulous, blah, blah, blah, blah, and his crazy snakes.

And I step out there like, okay, where's my mark? I got out there. and I froze. I have never in my life frozen like that. And they're like, I was like, Tom came out or Michael, one of them and took over for me. I was so embarrassed and I was crying backstage afterwards. And the snake handler came to talk to me.

He said, I have to tell you, don't be embarrassed. He said, it's genetic. There is a gene in some people where they free, you freeze up like that. I don't know if that's true, but it made me feel better because I was like, what is wrong with, like, how unprofessional. But I do have got a thing. Oh, it's weird.

He really had real snakes in there? Yeah, I don't know if they were still like, if the rattles had juice. Right. What is it filled with? Poison. Poison juice. Poison, juice. I don't know.

Probably cottage cheese. Oh. Imagine if he just spit cottage cheese out of his teeth. Spick goddess cheese out of his teeth. Now I'm going to have a dream. This is so nice. Did you enjoy this? This is so nice.

Yeah. I really like spending time. Likewise. Anything you want to know about me before we go? Yeah, can I say? Can I just stay a little longer? When you were driving up, you're like, I wonder what his deal is with that. I wonder what Tom Papa's take on.

No. You didn't think it. Well, thank you so much. This was really great. Thank you. on another season. That's fantastic. Thank you so much, Tom.

Thank you. It's so great. I can't wait to be on set with you. I know. That's going to be great. Let's get you waxed. We got it, kids. We've got it, kids.

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