Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 285 - Alex Edelman

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

Today on Breaking Bread Alex Edelman joins us at the table! He talks holding hands with a nervous flyer, wearing tefillins, and making pottery for Seth Rogen. He also opens up about the loss of his best friend and how he navigates the current state of the world. Alex is an Emmy and Tony Award winning comedian, actor and writer. Catch Alex in THE PAPER, streaming on Peacock now. ------------------ 0:00:00 Intro 0:01:06 Best Bread 0:02:25 Agreeing with Trump 0:04:30 Nervous flyers 0:07:25 Tefillin 0:09:25 Eat anything made with love 0:11:04 Making pottery for Seth Rogen 0:13:45 Roomates and dealing with death of best friend 0:18:45 Support of friends during loss 0:20:20 Adam Brace's effect on Alex 0:26:09 Jerry Seinfeld came to Alex's broadway show 0:30:53 Starting at the Comedy Cellar young 0:35:14 Wikipedia obsession 0:36:50 Writing and Acting in The Paper 0:46:30 Developing new hour 0:50:30 Tefillin p2 0:53:03 Getting tipsy off one drink 0:56:08 The Great Outdoors, 2 week walk in Japan, National Parks 1:01:14 Uncomfortable moment 1:04:57 State of the world 1:13:45 Influences ------------------ Tom Papa is a celebrated stand-up comedian with over 20 years in the industry. Watch Tom's new special "Home Free" out NOW on Netflix! Patreon - Patreon.com/BreakingBreadWithTomPapa Radio, Podcasts and more: https://linktr.ee/tompapa/ Website - http://tompapa.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tompapa Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tompapa Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/comediantompapa Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/tompapa #tompapa #breakingbread #comedy #standup #standupcomedy #bread Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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but I came in and everyone was being really weird. And I was like, did I, what's going on? They're like, uh, jerry's here. And they didn't say, Seinfeld. They were like, Jerry's here. And I was like, ah, fuck. And they're like, house seats?

And they're like, yep. And I'm like, great. So he's in the fifth row. Right. And everyone's wearing masks at that point. And so I kept trying not to look at him. I would look at the crowd like, you know. And then, but also, I remember he's sitting there and I kept thinking like,

how did they kill Lincoln? because the whole audience is watching him. And I'm like, when Lincoln was there, wasn't the whole audience like, like how good was our American cousin that people are like, well, he took the balcony seat, that was a mistake. Yeah, but overlooking. He's overlooking the thing, though. I'm sure they were just like, there's fucking Lincoln.

But they said he's not going to say hi. I'm like, totally fine. And I'm upstairs. And they go, he wants to say hello. And I'm like, okay. It's breaking bread. And I have a place to hide my cappuccino. You can keep it out.

Okay, no one's gonna. No one's, yeah. It's a bread podcast. Nice to see you. Nice to see you, bud. Do you have a favorite bread? Well, I, other than my bread that I bake? Yes.

Yeah, tartine. Really? Bubb and grandmas. Both good places. Really great. Lodgebread in L.A. I've not had lodge bread. Who, you'd like them. Tartin is really good.

It's really good. And, you know, they were like the first ones on the block, and a lot of people, you know, they kind of kicked open. This whole artisanal bread thing and other people came, but they're still, like, the top. I don't eat a ton of it. It has to be really good.

It's got to be worth it to me. You know what I mean? I'm one of those. I'm sadly one of those guys where I'm like, I've, as my metabolism slowed down a little, I'm now like sort of making certain hedges. Like, I never have soda ever. Never.

Never ever have soda. Unless it's like handcrafted or they're like, we make her own. I'm like, wow, then I must. What about like a diet or a zero? Never. I don't think I've ever, I don't think I've ever had any diet soda besides diet Coke,

and I don't like Diet Coke. Yeah. And I don't drink regular Coke. I'll drink Mexican Coke occasionally with the sugar cane. Right with the regular sugar. By the way, Trump a couple of months, or maybe last year, he was like, why don't we have Mexican Coke with real sugar? And I was like, oh my God, I found my first thing that I agree with Donald Trump on.

I'm like, yes. Get rid of this high fructose corn syrup bullshit and give us Mexican coat. You just had to hang out long enough. Yeah. Find something that's what it is, reaching across the aisle. He does five hours of riffing. And he's like, immigrants bad, guns good. And I'm like, no, no.

And then when he makes his way down to the bottom of us, he's like, I like ficus plants and also Mexican Coke. And I'm like, well, yeah, okay. Keep your shoes on going through security. Yes, yes. He's my guy. I was like, wow, if you ignore all the global politics stuff, he's actually a totally.

He's my man. But when I watch you, I honestly think, and this is true, I honestly, besides your. comedy, whatever, I think this is a guy, this, this, this SOB can eat as much bread and and sugars he wants. Look at how thin, skinny, not skinny, like, not skinny trouble, like skinny, like he'll look good in a suit. I genuinely think I burn calories by being like anxious.

I think my body is never at a resting state. I think when I'm asleep, my body's like, oh, like once I, you know, I did that thing. my girlfriend is a scale and I weighed myself and I was like, you know, 175 or something like that. And then I went to bed and I woke up and out of curiosity

because I don't have a scale in my house. Yeah. I weighed myself again and I was 172 and I'm like, I lost three pounds sleeping. Like, what was I doing? And my girlfriend's like, oh, you were digesting? And I was like, no, I think I was fretting about something. I was really worried.

Like, I think in my dream, I was like, you know? Just panic. My wife and I just had a flight. She hates to fly. And we got off the flight. She's like, do you feel, you feel fine right now? I said, yeah, feel good.

It was like from LA to New York. And I said, yeah, I feel okay, you know. And she's like, I'm exhausted. I'm just a wreck. And she slowly realizes what you're saying. She's in a panic for six hours on the flight. Her heart rate's going. She's gripping things.

Anytime there's a little, she's like, grabbing me during any turbulence. Really? Yeah, and she's completely, I think your body can wear out that way. I was on a plane from like Seattle, somewhere in Texas, and there was a woman staying next to me, and we're about to take off, and I know she's like muttering herself. And I'm like, oh no, I'm sitting next to that crazy person.

And I'm like, miss, and she's not paying attention to me. And I lean over, and she's like, how merry for the girl. Like she's like saying Hail Marys or like, you know, like, and I was like, Miss, are you okay? And she's like, this is my, she's well-dressed woman in her like 40s. She's like, this is my like third time on a plane. Whoa. And I'm like, do you want someone to hold your hand during takeoff? And she went, would you mind?

Like, this is like a, this is not like a business lady. That was a big ass. And so I'm like holding this woman's hand. And the plane was like, it was like a weird, weirdly. Rocky takeoff and I was like, yeah. And she's like, oh my God, my God. And part of me was like, I'm actually freaking out a little bit too. You start gripping her hands.

I'm like, wait, is she on something? Like, I'm actually going to, I'm like, are we going to go down? Like, is this actually going to? And like, when we landed, she went like this. And I was like, you know, we had a smooth landing. And I'm not kidding. When the plane landed, she, if everybody claps, it's fine, but she was just like, like, she was so grateful that we didn't die up there. Thank you, Mary.

It was really, it was really interesting. Like some people are terrified of flying because it makes sense like flying we shouldn't crash every time If you don't do it that often you realize it seems it seems kind of scary When you do it a lot you're like there's thousands and thousands of flights every single day I was trying to talk her through that I was like do you notice because our gate You know CTAQ is a is a big airport and I was like just so you know I was like you know I was like you notice that like we're flying in the late morning yeah I was like that gate's going to have like seven flights on it throughout the day.

Right. I was like, and there are like hundreds of gates. And like, or dozens of gates in our terminal. I'm like, if you just do the math, I'm like, it's just really, I said to her, I was like, have you been that lucky in your life? I was like, you're that lucky that you're going to die in a plane crash? I was trying to joke, but it was not. She's like, hellmery, Helmerie, Helmer.

The religious one that kind of. kind of freaks me out a little bit when you're at the gate, especially like in Newark, a little JFK, is when you have the Hesedem with the blocks on their head. Tofelin. I wear those. I wear those in my private life. What are they called? They're called philin. They're in English, they're called philactories, which sounds like something, it sounds like a condom. But yeah, at Newark, when they're flying, you know, if you're near a gate that's going to Israel or something, You'll see just like, I just, yeah, there's just a lot of rocking, a lot of black cubes on the head.

And anything you don't understand, you just get a little freaked out. I, you know, so I do that, I do that, but I don't love doing it. I don't love doing it in public, but I do it. And once I was flying in, I was in New Orleans. And I'm putting my Phelanon in like a corner because Jews have to do it during a certain time of day. Uh-huh. In the mornings. And I'm doing it in the corner.

And this guard, the security guard comes over me with a TSA agent and he's like, hey man, I'm like, hey. And he's like, you're not going to like, you're not going to shoot up right here. Because there are little ropes attached to them. And you have to, and I'm like, what? And he's like, you're not going to like, because I look like I'm tight. You look like you're tied off. And I'm like, no, no, I'm not. Like you got through security with it.

Yeah. And I think that was his question. He was like, what do you have on? You know, like, yeah, what are you doing? Where's your syringe? because you're sitting at your gate. But I look up and everyone's looking at me like, you know. Yeah, they're like, he's so skinny.

He could probably eat so much bread. Yeah, yeah, I can eat so much bread. The bread I gave you is from Bread's Bakery. Can I pull it out? You can do whatever you want to do. Will you partake in this as well? I couldn't bring it home. I mean, if you want to eat it, go ahead.

No, I'm good. I normally bake bread for my guess, but I'm traveling. I'm on the road. When we're in L.A. together, I'll give it to you. I'm serious time. I'd really love that. I love. I love, I'm not kidding.

My friend Jenji Kohan is a really brilliant TV writer. And she's one of those people that sort of like sort of takes care of herself. And so Genji was at her nutritionist's office and the nutritionist is walking her through what she can eat. Yeah. And the nutritionist is like, no ex, no why, but you're a lot of eat this and this and this and anything made with love.

And she's like, keeps going. And Genji was like, I'm sorry. Like, this is not a woo-woo nutritionist. She's like a regular nutritionist. And the nutritionist is like, yeah, anything they would love. And Genji's like, okay, I'm sorry, what are you talking about? She's like, if something is made with love, it will like be fine for you. And Jenny's like, I'm not following.

And she's like, if they're putting real ingredients in it. Yeah. And like, they're actually making something that's like, you know, it will be like slightly less processed. It'll be slightly less. So like, there was a scientific reason for it. Yeah. And she's like, anything made with. care, go for it.

Yeah. And so, like, I love to, like I said, I will never, ever drink soda. Right. Unless someone's like, hey, we make your own soda. Then I'm like, bring me the soda. Right. If you're making your own soda, a thousand percent. Yeah, absolutely.

When I started baking bread, I have a lot of people in my life that were gluten intolerant, you know, not like real celiac, but, you know, and they were able to eat my bread. and I really was, and without being a nutritionist, I was like, yeah, it's because I care about you and I made this bread for you and it's not going to hurt you. I believe that. I'm not kidding. I'm not very woo-woo, but I totally believe that, like,

I have a hobby. I make ceramics. Oh, yeah? I make pottery. I'm not great at it. Are you gunning for Seth Rogen? You know, Seth, I, like, got a chance to, like, make some stuff with him a couple weeks ago.

Oh, really? He's amazing. He's a truly amazing. And by the way, like pottery, you know, like whenever I'm on the road, sometimes people know I make pottery, so I'll get like invitations from people to go to their studios. And sometimes they do. Nice. And like, not like you can tell a lot from a person from how they behave when you're making pottery with them.

But like, Seth is very, it's a thing where you're kind of thinking, but you're also kind of instinctive. And so like watching Seth Rogen, I'm like, oh, this guy, I get why he's like a brilliant comedian. Right. He's just like, there's something, his mind, mind-hand connection is very, like, very effortless. It's not like he's been doing in his whole life. I think he's only been doing it like five, six years. I think it's a pandemic thing. Yeah.

But it's a really fun. Yeah. I picked it up, and my friend Ellie Sheva got me into it in, like, 20, 23. Mm-hmm. And I really, I love it. It's like a really nice little hobby. Can you make me something now that I gave you bread? Sure.

I'm happy to, you know, I make, but the problem is my stuff's like, okay. And so sometimes I give, like, I did like the Today Show or something and I brought pottery for all of the hosts. Yeah. And I could see them be like. We'd like to thank the good people at Quince for sponsoring today's program. If you spend a lot of time cooking at home, it's time to elevate your game. When your cookware actually feels good to use and is thoughtfully made and looks beautiful on your counter, It just makes the whole experience better.

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I love having Quince in my lineup. I've got these good ceramic frying pans and sauce pans. They're very cool. They're good in your hand and they clean easy, which is another very cool thing. The best part, everything at Quince is priced way lower than you'd expect. 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Go get it right now. Refresh your every day with luxury, actually use. Head to quince.com slash papa for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada, too. That's quince, quince, c-u-in-c-com slash Papa, P-A, for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash papa. Oh, wow. No, no, it's good. Like when your kid makes something in art class. That's exactly what it was.

I was thinking of that analogy. It looked like, oh, my son made a pencil holder. Isn't it great? It's so great. Oh, it's not a pencil holder? It's a dinosaur. Oh, I love dinosaurs. So clever.

Oh, those are the arms. That's really good. And so watching Al Roker be like, no, no, I'm going to use this. I'm like, fuck, because I worked hard on these things. There is a great thing. whenever I post baking bread, there is, it's just, and people always talk about that thing with,

like the pottery thing, your hands, just like the, and the evolution from when I first started, it was all sticking to my hands, and it was like this really tough, and now it's just become this effortless thing. It's such a, it's such a bizarre process, isn't it? That your brain can literally get good at something

that affects, matter outside of you. Totally. And so you need effortlessly now pretty much, just like. Oh, yeah, it's just completely, my roommate is a chef and an expert baker. One of the best. You have a roommate?

I have two. You have two roommates? I have two roommates. Well, we live in an apartment together, me and my friend's Benj and Jake. It's Benj's apartment where you're his tenants. Right? But why do you still live with roommates?

Sorry, I don't. This big superstar? It's a big, it's a... Just love them? Yeah, it's, you know, I don't know that I've told this story publicly, but I don't think it's too much of a bombshell, but a couple years ago, I lived alone. I lived alone on the east side, and Upper East Side,

but I had a loss. Your director? Yeah, my director died. And friend. Yeah, my best friend. And, uh, and then, Benj, Badge kind of showed up in my apartment, essentially, and was like, hey, you're going to move in with me,

because I'm really worried about, I'm worried about you, because I was about to start on Broadway, and I just lost the guy who directed my show with my closest pal. And he was like, yeah, I'm really concerned. I'm concerned that you will, that you won't be able to make it through this without. And he was like, pack a bag and come stay with me, while during a Broadway run. And I just kind of never left.

And Jake, Jake also, Jake was going through something and Benj was like, you should move into this other room. And so now we have this really, Benj is a brilliant songwriter. He wrote all the music for like La La Land

and Driven Hansen and Greatest Showman. He's like, he's in, he's an Egot. Like he's a super, and Jake himself, Jake's got a book coming out called Dinner Party Animal,

but his name's Jake Cohen, and he writes cookbooks. Oh, wow. But, like, can cook everything in the cookbook, these beautiful New York Times best-selling cookbooks. And so, like, we, you know, we did Drew Barrymore together to Jake and I the other day, which is, like, such a nice thing to, like, get in the car together from the apartment.

But he's a doll. What a killer crew. It's so fun. It's like instant community. Like, you know, you wake up, you work out together in the building's gym, and then you come down. Like, that's what I did today. I woke up.

I worked out. I was like, I got to leave 15 minutes early. I'm going to, I'm going to Sirius X-M. And they're giving me shit. And it's like, it's a really perfect situation. We have these meals, you know, Jake will cook. And like, it's one of the, like, I can't believe I'm living like this in my 30s. But it really works.

It's beautiful. Were they right? Was he right? That if you had been alone, it would have been alone. it would have been a different thing? Yeah, I think he is, actually. I think it would have been hard. I think I don't know that I could have.

I didn't realize it was right before the Broadway. Two weeks? What? It was brutal, man. I thought it was after all of that. No, that's part of the sad. It's terrible. It's part of the sadness of it in the sense that, like,

I made this thing with this guy who was my best friend. And we were close in the years leading up to it, but we got really, really close in the process of making the show. Right. And every time, you know, for those of you were listening or watching, I did this show off. I did this show called Just For Us and it was a solo show and it started off Broadway in like 20, beginning at 2022 and went through 2023 sort of off Broadway and around. It was in London. It was in D.C.

It was, you know, in various places. Well, yeah. So then it went to Broadway in 2023 and then in 2024, HBO put it up as a special and it did really well. a special in a solo show, and my director died right before we started on Broadway. So he never sort of got to see it in its most salubrious state. Did, forgive me for not knowing this, but was he ill, or was it just a shock? His stroke. Stroke.

So he was here. Out of nowhere. He was here, and then he wasn't. Those are the, those are the, we just had a friend like that. And it feels like they've been body snatched. It feels like an alien came down and scoop them up and you're just like, wait, they're not going to pick up when I call? I think, and I had just gotten really close with this guy

over the course of making the show. And this thing, frankly, I think one of the reasons the show is really successful is because I had so much joy doing it with this guy. And the funny thing is I ended it because I just couldn't imagine there's more commercial appetite for it, but I just couldn't keep doing it

without, this guy there is a part of it. You know, the funny thing is a lot of people, like, stepped up for me in really big ways that I, um, I didn't anticipate. Mike Barbiglia was actually, who, who doesn't give you warm and cuddly as his first, you know, like no one looks at Mike Brubiglia and thinks like, ah, what a cuddly teddy bear of a guy. I don't know. There's a little bit of Winnie the Pooh in there. He's very, he was really, he really showed up.

I don't think people know how warm he can be is what I mean. And he was very, and I had a director named Alex Timbers, who was very good, who's like a, you know, tough challenge for a guy to, like, step into the shoes of a dead person to, because I needed help. So, like, but you know what? All these people sort of help me. So it's a very, like, it's, I feel a little bit like, I don't know, everyone just kind of stepped up. It was like a lot of people did in, like, small ways, big ways. Yeah. Man, what a crazy period of your life. I mean, to be going through these great accomplishments

and these great loss all at the same time is it's a headbanger. I imagine, I sometimes say people, like I tell people it's like, imagine you wrote a song with somebody and you were in like a sort of shitty garage band and you got to tour all around and, you know, it was you and like another guy and you were part of a duo and you did this song and you play these shows. And then, that person died and the song went on the radio and it went to number one. You had to keep doing the song. Right. Like, that's how, because people are like, oh, my God, I love that song.

And I'm like, I wrote it with, I wrote it with my buddy, you know? Yeah. How much the show was so brilliant. And, I mean, it was so brilliant because of the writing. It was so brilliant because of the performing, the subject. I mean, it was a real reason why it, it, It resonated with so many people. How much did he influence and change the show that you had in your head?

Oh, huge. I mean... Like, and what parts were the most... I mean, there are parts he didn't touch that he still had big, big, you know... I would say that my biggest influences are like, oh my God. I'm about to reference something that without just remembering, you're in the trailer for this. A comedian, the documentary comedian.

Like, that documentary made me want to be a comic. And I think I got this idea on my head that eventually you sort of, like, you sort of battle test your bits in conversation with other people, and they tell you why it works or doesn't work. Right. And so, like, Adam was the person I did that with all my bits with. So I'd be like, hey, what do you think of this? And be like, you know, he looked, I remember he specifically,

again, I don't know if I've ever talked about this, but he, I had a joke in there. I had a joke in my special, or had a joke in my show. Yeah. And Adam went, just so you know that joke gets a big laugh, but the audience is like a little disappointed in you. And I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, I mean, it's a laugh,

but it's a laugh of like shock. He's like, they're laughing because they like, because you're like basically like invoking Jeffrey Epstein or something like that. Uh-huh. And he's like, so you can do it. It'll get a laugh. And he's like in audiences that he's like,

in most audiences won't think less of you. He's like, but there'll be some people who'll be like, yeah, that guy kind of sucks. And he's like, so you should lose the joke. And I'm like, that's a really big laugh. And he's like, yeah, but it's sort of like the wrong kind of laugh. And I was like, so Adam had that instinct. Oh, man, to have someone like that just on your little shoulder as you go through, I mean, because nobody really would share that with you.

Other comics probably wouldn't. Also, other comics wouldn't know because they do that shit too. Yeah, right. Other comics really like. Yeah. There is a short list of comics that actually you're on. But like, who, no a joke gets a laugh. but it's not, doesn't mean it's a good joke or it's done.

I'm sure you've jettisoned many jokes where you're like, it's, it's getting last, but I can't get it right. Yeah. Like, I do that all the time. There's a joke where, or I'll look back at jokes I used to do it. I'm like, what the fuck was I thinking? You know, like, it's not funny. Like, joke got a laugh.

It's not funny. Yeah, I muscled it through, but it's not really there. Yeah, I gave it some tricks, but it's a fake. Right. It's like, it's like when the alien for American Dad is wearing drag or something like that. Like, that's not a real lady, you know, like it's something. But yeah, Adam was great at that. And, you know, Brabiglia was pretty brilliant at it all.

So, yeah, I, I, how much did, how much did Mike Shepard it? Mike gave like seven notes, but they were all like huge notes. Do you know what I mean? Mike was like, I think this, I think, I think, I think the spine of this is wrong. And I'd be like, fuck, you know. Right, right. I could be like, I don't, but you know, my jokes, like,

the best part of that show was I did it off Broadway for so long that brilliant comedians. I got a tag from Steve Martin. Jerry gave me a sort of similar thing. I really had to press him. But he was so, he was so brilliant about it and eventually gave me a note. Billy Crystal was the one who said you should move from a handheld. to a headset. And I was like, I really don't want to do that.

And he was like, trust me. He's like, it's not, you're not giving something away. He's like, some shows are for this and some shows are for this. This show is for this. I promise you. I clocked it. I remember clock because it's, that is for a comedian that it always works like this. I always work like this.

It's a big deal to like, wait a minute. I've never worked like this before my entire fucking life. But it really did make sense because the way you moving stuff is, yeah, it was so. Yeah. Other comedians. I do think that like, I always give credit for the jokes that people, like, you know, help me with or give me tags to. There's a comic named Nick Callas, who, you know, is sort of a really smart young, like,

New York, New Jersey comic who works the seller, but is still sort of like an up-and-comer and really funny. He gave me one of the best lines in the special, which is, you know, it's in the meeting and it's contextual, but, like, you know, you know, I mentioned, it's one of the best lines in the show, and I mentioned it to someone, and they were like, do you want us to keep that in? And I'm like, what do you mean?

And they're like, do you want us to keep that in the interview? I was like, yeah, it's fun. Yeah, yeah, of course. This idea that comedians, I come up with all of my own material, but like, the best bit of this is part of the dialogue with, you know, sharpened with... Oh, God. I never understand when people are, like, hesitant when they come up to,

and they're like, I don't know, like, do you, do you, Take lines. I want them. Yeah. Give me everything you got. What do you mean it took Jerry a while? Jerry, Jerry, you know Jerry well, obviously.

Jerry is like, Jerry, and by the way, now Jess, Jessica's wife are very big presences to me. I think of them is really towering intellects. And like I said, comedian is why I became a comic. And so Jerry, um, Jerry came to the show and I knew, I knew they don't tell me who's in the audience before,

but I came in and everyone was being really weird. And I was like, did I, what's going on? Yeah. They're like, uh, Jerry's here. And they didn't say, Seinfeld. They were like, Jerry's here. And I was like, ah, fuck. And they're like, house seats.

And they're like, yep. And I'm like, great. So he's in the fifth row. Right. And everyone's wearing masks at that point. And so I kept trying not to look at him. I would look at the crowd like, You know, and then, but also, I remember he's sitting there and I kept thinking like, how did they kill Lincoln?

Because the whole audience is watching him. And I'm like, when Lincoln was there, wasn't the whole audience like, like how good was our American cousin that people are like? Well, he took the balcony seat. That was the mistake. Yeah, but overlooking. He's overlooking the thing, though. I'm sure they were just like, there's fucking Lincoln. But after they said he's not going to say hi.

I'm like, totally fine. I'm upstairs and they go, he wants to say hello. And I'm like, okay. And so I go downstairs and he was like, I really enjoyed that. I'm like, thank you. Because like, I'm actually terrified. And I realize, by the way, and I'm down there, like, Jessica's down there too. and my mom cooks from our cookbooks

and like, you know, I'm like intimidated by them both and I was sort of unprepared by how intimidated I'd be by Jessica, who's very nice. Yeah. But still, like, to me, like, I don't know. And I'm like, well, what didn't you like? And my producer, whoever was with me, like, snorted laugh at it. Oh, my God, like classic.

Yeah. But he was like, no, I enjoyed it. And I was like, yeah, but you're going to get in the car and you're going to look at Jessica and be like, that was good, but... Uh-huh. And he went, okay, I'm so glad you asked. Yeah, that's great. And he told me he's like, there's a joke in the show

where you address the response the audience gives it. Mm-hmm. And when you do that, it takes me out of the show. Because I was saying to the audience that I say to the audience, the joke would always get a little bit of like, ooh. Uh-huh. And I go, that joke is the same reaction. night and not cutting it.

And then people would laugh. Right. And it's because I haven't figured out the right way to like... Sometimes a joke, you know there's funny in there, but you haven't figured out a way to like turn the spigot and release the pressure that gives it the punchline. Yeah. And so that was how I was doing it. And Jerry's like, it takes me...

He's like, I know you've told the jokes before. They know you've told the jokes before, but you're taking them out of the show. Don't do it. He's like, and it's a thing. He's like, I don't know. I see it all the time in younger comics. In younger comics, it's not a good instinct. Right.

And he's right. Yeah. He's really, really right. He's a real technician with those parts of it. When comedians say, all right, I got to get going. All right, I got to get it right in a showcase, like at the cellar, you know, at the end of the set. They're like, all right, I got to get out of here. So he's like, where are you going?

Yeah, of course. Why are you saying that? Why are you saying that? And you said, you don't care? You don't care about being here? Like, just that small, little tiny minutia. I also, I've never been a comic who pretends their laissez-faire about the stuff. Right.

And because that's not me. Yeah. And the comics that take big pauses in between jokes or something like that, like, also not me. Like, my real, I started desperate for stage time. I'm still desperate for stage time. Right, exactly. I still can't believe I get to do stand-of-comedy and get paid money for it. So I've never done that, but, you know, not only,

but I remember saying that to Adam, I was like, this is what Seinfeld said. He said, why don't you go through the show and see if there are any other jokes that reflect that ethos that you don't like? And I did. So I, you know, scalloped other stuff off. And, you know, like, and, you know, some people are,

it's a really great. Also, I think I did start doing stand-a-comedy to feel less alone. Uh-huh. And so the idea of... How old were you when you were knocking around the cellar? Like 16, 17 watching, but, like, I was there through college and, like... Right.

That's when I first met you, when you were just banging around as an eager kid. Yeah. And by the way, I always remember who was sort of nicer to me when I was an eager kid, which was, like, really... And also now, I think I've got a lot more patience for eager kids because I was... Even though sometimes I hate them more because... Right. Because they remind me of my annoying young self, and annoying current self.

But like some comics always didn't like the eagerness, which is fair. But, like, I loved, I just always loved stand-up. It's what I wanted, I wanted to do it so badly. Was I nice to you? Yep. You were nice to me. You were, you were very, like,

but you were always very, like, it's mostly comics who have a deep lack, who I think see, eagerness and it annoys them. I get a little bit annoyed, but when I get a little bit annoyed, I'm like, ah, that's my own sense of lack, or my own desire to return to being a young

person and maybe do everything over just a little bit different. Yeah, yeah. But it was also so unique. There was, you were the only you were the only 17-year-old kid just showing up at the cellar and like, hey, I want to talk to you guys and hey, can you, so it was like, you know,

but there's no annoyance in that. This is somebody who, but I didn't audition at the cellar until I was, you know, like 33. Right, exactly. I was like, from the ages of like 18 to 33, I would just like, and then Scy one day was like, this is ridiculous. You're auditioning next Friday. This is so stupid.

I think Brubegli has said to her, like, come on, it's tough. But I never wanted to. Where were you working during that time? I'd do clubs, nights in Brooklyn, and also England, I was in England for a long time because the truth is, even though I do love the seller more than anywhere else on the planet, if my bank password hint was favorite. place on earth. It would be the cellar of Fenway Park. Right. But like,

I was always a long-form comic. I've always loved comics who can work long-form stuff or comics who, like, can put out albums and specials. I think last time I saw you, or second. Last time I saw you was, like, bothering you about some, like, joke I had heard on the special, and you told me that, like, you had done a gig for Clint Eastwood, and he also liked that specific joke. Yeah.

Like, I really, really like, I like comics who've got a lot to say, or comics who have a little to say, but really draw on it. And I think that, like, I worry sometimes that we're being asked to produce, like, journalism in the form of stand-up. Do you know what I mean? We're asked to make our material so outputable that, you know, the phrase special would mean, implies a little. little bit of a newness.

Nunes and, yeah. And rarity. And that the thing as a whole is a thing. A thousand percent. I remember I was backstage at the comedy store and I was talking to a comic and they were going off about their special and that it's taking them a while and they're

just kind of like anxiety about releasing something. And one of the other comics said, well, who really cares? You're just going to chop it up into little clips and put it on social media. And she was like, I don't want to do that. Yeah, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that.

That's not why it was all, she was so crestfallen. She was just like, like in shock. Like, that's not what I'm doing here. No, I'm team long for him, baby. Yeah. Also, things are meant to be in the same way that musicians who are, I'm going to say real musicians in air quotes, because there's no such thing as a real comedian or real musician.

You either do it or you don't. In the same way that real musicians sometimes bemoan the loss of interest in albums. Like, I mean, albums are a complete unit of work, and I think it makes the individual stuff better. Not that you have to listen to them in context, but, like, I was reading, my worst time suck is Wikipedia rabbit holes. Oh, yeah.

I was reading last night about Baba O'Reilly, you know, the song. Yeah. Or Teenage Wasteland. or whatever. And none of these Who songs charted that well. Like not a single one of them was like a number one hit, even though these crazy enduring songs. Yeah.

And they were all like either part of, most of them were, most of their hits were either part of Tommy, which was their rock opera. And they were trying to make a follow up to Tommy that fell through called Lifehouse. And it never got made, but it spawned behind Blue O'Reilly. and I think Baba O'Reilly and, you know, one of their other, like, big hits. And I think that, like, even though the whole piece itself never got released,

songs being written as an ambition of getting at something bigger really does something to those songs. So, like, I like the idea that you're aspiring to something big and these jokes are little parts of it. Right. Right. If that's, right, if that's the, if the, if the, After, once it's given to the people and they want to chop it up and make it smaller and, hey, have you seen this part of it or that part of it? That's fine. But that's not your intent as the creator. And same thing as writing for a television show.

You have to write, you know, you got to write in chunks for this thing. Congratulations on the paper. Thanks, bud. Which for our listeners, I'm sure they know by now because it's on every bus and subway. Not weird how it's on every bus. It's on every bus. This is the new iteration of the legacy of the office. It's, that form is so great.

That form is such a cool, watchable. If you've got good characters and good writing, that it's just, as soon as I watch the pilot, I was like, oh, we're back in here. Isn't that great? This is so, so great. And you have a part in, you're also writing on it. It's going to, it's going to be a hit.

It's going to be around for a long time. I mean, I hope so. But you, your part is, I love your character. He's an idiot. He's an idiot. He's an idiot. He's an idiot, baby. Which is so funny.

And I was, the question is, who cast you as the idiot? Did you come up with the idiot? I came up with the idiot. Your thing is so, as a comic, you're so articulate and you have all this insight. And on the show, you're just like, so dumb. You know, my favorite, my favorite joke in the show, you don't even see my, my favorite joke of mine in the show, even see my face for. It's so dumb.

There's a joke. And by the way, I said it as a little bit of improv and I can't believe they left it in. But again, you don't see my face. There's Ned Samson, who's Donald Gleason's character who plays sort of the editor of this failing newspaper. Yeah.

He's showing the new reporters the headlines of the day. And he's trying to give them examples of iconic headlines. So he's like, Armstrong walked on the moon. And then he shows them one that says, Salk cures polio.

And my character goes, well, that's good news. And it's like, he doesn't know. By the way, in the fight, thing is, Salk never cured polio came with a vaccine. But it's like really, really funny that his character is like, oh, you know, oh my God, we cured polio is amazing. And the truth is, you know,

or Shepard, Shepherd walks on the moon. There was a part of me that wanted to do the line. And I'm like, I think it's funny after a Saul Cures, Polio. But, yeah, my character, I was, I came on board as, as, as, you know, I auditioned. Uh-huh. And I don't, I don't audition much. Because I'm sure, like, you, like, I love to act.

I do want to act. Yeah. And, like, you've been in some really cool stuff, but you're also not like, yeah, you know. You're not, I'm not chasing that so much. Not at all. But like, I like seeing Alan Havy in it. You know, the funny thing is that I did have a little bit to do with. You did?

Yeah, his audition tape came in. I have really good bosses, which has not been the case on everything I've worked on. You know, I, my, and so, like, I auditioned because it was going to be Greg Daniels and Michael Cohn. Yeah. And Greg did The Office. Michael did Nathan for you in early Conan stuff, and Greg's one of the great TV writers. And also, he's got a reputation for nurturing these really brilliant comedians into writers. And so Greg and Coleman sort of had written this thing,

and it turned out it was a dummy project. It wasn't the real thing, but the sides were brilliant. And we had breakfast, and they were like, do you want to come on board as a writer and an actor? And I was like, yeah, I don't think it would have done one without the other. Yeah. And one of the other writers, one of the other writer performers, this woman Bemisola Ikumelho, who's this, you know, British comedian and an actor.

and she was developing her character, and she took her character, developing her character so seriously. She, like, went to Toledo and, like, you know, like was doing this burnout American accent. And she's a full Brit, and she was meeting with costumes. And her character that she was developing

was sort of like a burnout. Uh-huh. And sort of, like, too cool for school. And I remember I just had a thought, like, what would be the most annoying thing to sit next to you, if that was you. It'd be me as an 18-year-old.

It'd be like a dopey golden retriever who doesn't know where he's not wanted and is just so imposing in his like idiocy. And just like cannot see murder when it's sitting a few feet away from him. To paraphrase a comic I can't remember, who once said you can't see murder

when it's an inch from your face. But like, that's what it was. Like I really was like, that's so funny. to just not be able to... So you got to develop your character and pitch it is, I think we should use this. Or it's just like... This guy should be this.

And finally is, I don't remember a ton of discussion. My character's one of the smaller characters on the show because we were spending so much time on Donal's character, as we should, because he's the anchor of the show. And Oscar... What was he in before this? He was in a... He's been in a bunch.

He was in Star Wars. He plays Bill Weasley and Harry Potter is one of the, you know... Remember in Harry Potter? Literally everyone is like some legendary actor. Yeah. He's in a show called Frank of Ireland, which he wrote with his brother. His father is Brennan Gleason, one of the great actors of Our Time.

And he's also a movie star. He's a star of a movie called About Time, which is a Richard Curtis movie. It's this really beautiful movie about like someone who can travel through time. But there are specific rules. and it asks a really good question, which is, what would you prioritize if you could travel through time? And so his character, he's like a really amazing dramatic actor.

He's really good. And I remember, by the way, people will be like, oh, man, is this dramatic actor gonna be funny? And the truth is good acting is good acting. Yeah. He, I learned a lot from watching him. Like he was really, sometimes early in our episodes, because we shot chronologically,

I'd be in the scene with him and be like, you're acting. Don't be watching. You're acting too. Right. Because he's so, because he is the anchor of nearly every scene he's in. Yeah. And so I was watching him.

And what's such a cool device, different from the office, is that he's the smartest guy in the room, which wasn't the way that the office ran when Steve was. And it's, it's, it, I really kind of just as a writer was like, oh, this is such a brilliant. I love this launch, that this guy is smart and he's bringing all of these dummies with him.

And then a couple that are, you know, match him. You know, obviously. But that thing, that setup is like, all right, I want to see where he takes these people. It's so good. And people ask a lot, obviously, as they should, they ask about the office, right? Because it's in success of the office. Oscar Martinez or Oscar Nunez in real life. Yeah. He's from the office.

It's in our show. Yeah. I love Oscar. And people, it's so interesting because, like, the best comparisons feel like they come from people who get that it's, like, a new show. Yeah.

And then I see people are like, well, it's not Michael Scott. And they're like, well, it's not that show. Yeah. It's not like a, it's not like a reboot. Yeah. It's more of a spinoff, but it's not entirely a spinoff. It's like, it's set in the same universe to make, like you said, to make use

to that visual language, which is so funny. which can really be gorgeous when it's married with. Like, we had a ton of directors who had worked on the office directing this, which I thought was a really interesting choice. And they brought the aesthetic of the office because the premises, it's the same documentary crew. Yeah.

But it's a totally new situation because, like, in real life, why would it be the same situation? Right. Where it's, like, one dumb boss and then another dumb boss pulling. And so, like, I also think this is right for the time. where like the thing we're trying to say is that like oh i love it it doesn't suck to try it doesn't

suck to try there's well yeah i just was jumping on the the loss of journalism and print and a guy with a typewriter and and and this is the press and like that part i was so it's such a love letter to um it's such a love letter to like local journalism but i think the idea of it was like okay when we're talking about it, talking about episode two, I remember. Greg and Comyn, we're obviously really busy. Show running a show takes a lot of effort. But we were having a chat, and I remember thinking, like, oh, this is a show about people making a product about a community for their community and in the process becoming a community themselves. And so that was really interesting. And And given the real world, there was an interesting thing where the real world started to follow art because the actors got better jelling together on screen and off as the show progressed chronologically, which is what would happen actually if you guys were becoming a community.

Yeah, yeah. So you see them get closer and closer over the course of the season. And even though there's a very light arc, there is an arc and the jelling of it is kind of. kind of the backbone of that arc. So it was like really interesting to be in there as a writer. Yeah. It's so fun. How, uh, so, are you one of these people that can work on this

while thinking my next show for myself is going to be this? Yeah. Or do you have to kind of put one down? Where are you at in developing the next thing for yourself? I mean, I'm doing shows, I'm on tour. I'm doing Carnegie Hall in November, which will be really cool. Oh, nice. And then we'll add some, and Carnegie Hall's sold, so we'll add some more New York stuff.

And, like, I'm still developing the show, but it's in a pretty good spot. Audiences don't, I don't think, see the development. The development happens at the seller, which is a, which is like. Yeah. So the thing that you're going to do with Carnegie is a new show, new, new hour. Does it have a narrative kind of? It has a little bit of a thrust about, like, there's a little bit of, you know, little thrust about, I'd be hesitant to say that it's about like Israel and Palestine because it's not, but it's about like watching what's happening and wondering how you best take care of people

or what sort of service or perspective you should provide. Like one of my favorite things to do, or I think a thing that my stand-up that I like to do on my stand-up is like talk about really tricky subjects from the most like human level of it without like, I don't really really do takes on a situation because I don't usually feel like I have the right one. Or like I don't have the one that's like the most articulate or concise, but sometimes I'm like, so there is an arc that sort of follows that. And I mean, I think that part of the reason I joined up on the paper was because Adam had died. And I had been doing a solo thing for like a year.

And I needed community and conversation again. And this was such an opportunity to be in community with someone like Donal and Komen and Daniels and other people. And then also, like, you mentioned Alan Havy's audition tape came in for this boss character. And I think they were, by the way, it's not like, I got Alan the job because they were already really, you know, he was already downed.

to like the last few. Yeah. But I remember being like, just so you guys know, this is like one of the great stand-ups period. And also he's a brilliant actor. Because you see Alan and Madman or Man in the High Castle and you're like, God, he's so, you've acted with him before.

Yeah, we were in a movie together. You were in the informant, a Scotty Burns movie that I fucking love. Oh, so good. It's so good. And so I'm like, this guy is peerless. In my episode, episode seven, the episode I wrote, revolves almost entirely around the relationship

Alan has with Dono. Oh, nice. It's about, Alan is in nearly every scene. He's in every scene in the A story. And he's so good in it. Yeah. And so like, but yeah, I just want to be, I want to be back in community. And like, so my stand-up gets better from those things.

And I still do stand-up over the course, but there are sometimes, it's not my, it's not my, stand-up waxes and wanes in my life. Sometimes it's like the big rocks in the jar and sometimes it's the sand that you pour it in over the top. Right, right. Right now it's like pebbles. which is good. Right, that's good. And now you have a little break from,

you have a break from the paper for a bit. Yeah, the break from the paper and focusing on stand-up and writing. I'm opening my laptop because I have some important questions for you. And also an uncomfortable moment. I'm like, this is so cool for me. Being in this new studio.

Yeah. I mean, everyone, the people behind the cameras are looking at me weird, but like, I'm a big Tom Papa fan. I used to. I'm a big, you fan. I was very excited to make this happen. This is, this shouldn't have happened. It shouldn't have happened. I'm in the middle of 700 things. I know. I know you are. And we were like, can we do it? And then

this magically appeared. I really appreciate it. And then you were able, you were available in this slot. This is happened for a reason. Can we go back to the, what do you call it, the thing on the thing? That's phillen. Sure. Can you tell me what it is? It's little selections from the Torah that you're commanded to have on your head and on your hand, essentially. And, you know, the truth is, the reason it means something to me is because my father does it every morning and my grandfather did it every morning. And so, you know, when I was growing up, like most, you know, kids of any people who are religious at all, you know, my parents, my father and my grandfather are like, you'll come

with me to do this thing. And even though my relationship to God's a little more fungible than, you know, you know, my father and grandfathers is, you know, when I put it on, I do feel, my grandfather passed away a couple years ago, and I don't love the word grandfather, because you think of like an old person, but he's just like strong, formidable World War II vet

who was an engineer in Boston for a long time and could fix anything and had a garage that was a workshop. And, you know. Yeah. And so sometimes I go to, to synagogue with him at like 5.30 a.m. Wow. And of course, like, and it was a 30, like, literally, like, a two-minute drive to synagogue.

Uh-huh. But I just remember, like, dozing in the car from, in the two minutes from my house to the synagogue and the cold leather and the old mobile. And, you know, like, and it was freezing because it was Boston and it's five in the morning or something. And I just, like, when I put on the taffella and I feel like, I feel very connected to the thing that they care about most in the world. And so like, it's supposed to signal a connection with God.

And I feel some of that, but mostly it's like a connection with my parents and ancestors and tradition that goes back all the way. But like Jewish men are obligated to wear it once a day and in the mornings, ideally. And so- As writings of the Torah in it? Yeah, there are little scrolls, five little scrolls,

or four little scrolls in there. And there are different selections And there's different letters. A shin, a doll it, and you had to spell Shaddai, which is one of the names of God. And so Amy Grant had a big single, a couple of, like, in the 90s called El Shadai. And so, like, weirdly, it's good advertising for Amy Grant.

It's got, like, you know, it's got the second half. That's cool. I like that. That's beautiful. You're raised for some religion. Yeah, I'm Catholic. Yeah. Yeah, that's like, that's what the rosary is.

I know from the stand-up. Nice stand-up. Well, I've got some of them to say. Have you ever gotten drunk? Oh, yeah. I can't tell from, I can't, I can't tell if I'm a sober man. Yeah. My tolerance cratered in the pandemic.

And so like I, I'm like now, I get like a little tipsy off one thing. Yeah. Like, I went to Palm Springs with, uh, with a. girlfriend and I had one, I had half of one martini and I was like, sweetie him like a little tipsy. And she was like, well, there's like a lot of shots in there. And she gave me such a look of disdain that I drained the martini. And she's like, we got to go right now. We got to go home like right now. We got to go back to the hotel. And I was drunk before we got to the car. And like we had, she left her phone in some

restaurants. So we had to stop there on the way. And she, She says that she left me in the car, and then I was just out on the sidewalk. Just like, she parted in the car. She's like, don't move. One martini. Maybe it was like one and a half, but I think it was one. And like, she's like, she came out and she was like, Lexi, Alex, Alexander David Edelman. You know, like, she got more and more formal with me.

When I was in my 20s, I had a couple of like, really, I, my first. friend Ross, McDonald, who's a musician, we got really, we used to really get after it some nights. And like, yeah, I used to be able to keep pace pretty well, but now I'm, now you're retired. I'm a lightweight. It's such a shame, you know. No, it's not. That's good. I'm also one of those sickos who enjoys the taste of alcohol, but not the effects of it. Like, I love the taste of an old-fashioned or a well-crafted, like, you know, Negroni or a Paloma. And like, I like the bite of alcohol, but we're like a centauri highball.

Yeah. But I just can't be drunk. Right. It just makes me, like the next day I'm slower. It sucks. If you buy pants and they don't fit or any clothes and they don't fit, do you keep them in anticipation that they will fit one day or do you get rid of them? I can get them altered.

You do. I will alter them. go into action. But I also, one of those guys that wears things until they're falling apart, like, I've had partners who are like, who hold up jeans and like, sweetie, it's time. Like an old dog that's, that's, that's in pain. Yeah. To be like, it's time. We got to put this t-shirt down. And I'm like, but I wore that at my bar mitzvah. They're like, it's time. You got to, you got to get the hell out of it. Like, it's over. It's over, buddy. Such a shame. You don't look like someone that goes camping, but...

I go camping. Do you go camping? I'm an outdoors person that you would not believe. Really? I love a hike. I love... Not afraid of bugs? Oh, I'm afraid of bugs.

I see you having a problem with bugs. I don't love bugs, but I love a hike. I did a pilgrimage called the Kumano Koto a couple of months ago, which is this like two-week walk in Japan. And like, you're not camping, but you're in these little, you're in these little, like, places where you sleep on a futon on the floor. And it's still, it doesn't feel like, it doesn't feel gross. It just feels like different. Uh-huh. And so, like, I like it.

I do go, it's been a while since I'm camping. Two weeks straight? It was 10 days straight with stuff on other side, but yeah, it was awesome. It was fantastic. Wow, that's great. One of the great experience in my life. Change it. My friend Adam met.

who's like a little more woo-woo than me says it fundamentally changed me it like grounded me and made me a little calm. That'll go away in a couple weeks, I'm sure. Yeah, of course. But like, yeah, I love to get out there and hike and camp and all that stuff. I used to do that with a friend of mine from college

and we would go every year to a national park and go for two weeks in the back country. Why don't more people talk about the national parks? I'm serious. It's like one of the best things America's got going. I know. There's that monologue that... And they're under attack.

there's that, yes, crazy. I know. There's that monologue that Jeff Daniels' character gives in the newsroom in the pilot where someone's like, why is America the greatest country in the world? And he goes, it's not, okay, it's not. And he's like, we ranked fifth in this and 30th and this and 28th in this. He's like, we lead the world in most incarcerated males and most people that believe in angels. So when you say America's the greatest country in the world, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Yosemite. And like, I remember, I remember watching the... monologue, yeah, me like, right on. And then I went to Yosemite and I'm like, this might be enough to make us the greatest country in the world. Absolutely. It is so good. So moving.

Zion, you ever been to Zion? No. Oh, in Utah? Tom, it is on, there's a hike there called the Narrows where you hike in, in water. Oh, boy. Like water, it's rushing water. It goes up to your knees. You need a walking sticker.

You'll be ass over tea kettle and wet for most of it. But like, it's in this giant slot canyon. Walls go up hundreds of feet on either side of you. And sometimes it'll be 98 degrees outside, and you're in the shade, and it's in the 60s or the 50s, because it's so, you're so deep down. But like, there's something otherworldly, cinematic. It is like, I love the national parks.

They're so incredible. They're so incredible and so moving. Do you have favorites? The idea that anyone would, uh, the titans. Yeah, fantastic. Hiking behind the titans. Sure. You have that view from the front.

Yeah, of course. But then we went and slept in the summer, and it was snowing on us behind the Teton. It's fantastic. It's just amazing. And you're right. The idea that someone would come for it is... To come for it and do anything to those lands is just... It's terrifying.

And those rangers are... I'm pretty good friends with this guy, this guy Christian, who's a ranger at Joshua Tree. And, I mean, like... And they know so much, and they're such a wealth of... There's such a wealth of, like, enthusiasm and knowledge. And, by the way, millions of Americans take vacations to the national parks every single year. They make money. They're a thing that the government does that makes money, which is crazy.

And the people that work, they love it so much. They're obsessed. They've picked this job. The real patriots. That's what a real patriot is. They totally are. And, like, the outdoorsy bits of these national parks are, like, people find, people find. And not just national parks, state parks.

there's a crater called Crater of Diamonds, I think, in Arkansas, where, like, a woman from New Jersey or something went to find her own engagement ring diamond. You can dig for diamonds in this park. It's a $14 a day fee, and she found her own engagement ring. And there's something that's like, the fact that that Avenue, I mean, you and I are a little busy. And I know if you went hunting for an engagement ring, your wife would be like, what are you doing? But like the fact that you can do that in the States, there's something really amazing about that. It's amazing.

I mean, in a time when you want to, we all desperately want to find stuff that unifies us, just go to a park and go look at that. Just go look at the big dome and tell me that you're not equally going to be. Hiking behind the titans like Bryce, which is an hour away from Zion, with these hoodoos, which are these sort of twisty things. Like, I will remember every national park I've been to the rest of my life. Like, it's astounding. Oh, they're amazing.

Well, that's great. But what bug don't do you like? Why do they have to be so crawly? Why doesn't it be so crawly and stinging? I don't get bit by a thing and can't see. I don't get bit by a bobcat. Yes, I'm not putting that out into the universe. Something you can see coming.

Yeah, yeah, it's terrifying. All right, we do a thing on this program called an uncomfortable moment. And it's just, you know, something, an area that might be uncomfortable for one of us or both of us. And you have, you know, I grew up in northern New Jersey. Our school, there was a big Jewish community. So I was very in a lot of Jewish homes. And, you know, they took me in for Sater. And I was like, oh, you're Italian.

I get it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I get how this all works. So I've always had an affinity for the Jewish people. Sure. This is a project that I'm thinking about, maybe, you know, because you're on Broadway and maybe I want to be on Broadway one day. My question is, is this cultural appropriation if I were to play Tevia? First of all, why do you look like Seth Rogan in this picture?

What do you mean? The question is, you look like Seth Rogan in this picture. You look fantastic, but you look like Seth Rogan. It's very like with the hat. I love Seth. entirely. It looks a little like Seth Rogen. A little? Yeah. I'll take that as a compliment.

I think you should. Is it cultural appropriation? No. Am I allowed to be? I think you are. I don't think of Fiddler on the roof. I'm going to get heat for this. Okay. It's an uncomfortable moment, so I'm happy to. Good. I don't think if Fiddler on the Roof is an exclusively Jewish show. I think I'm happy to...

They do it in Japan. Like, a lot of them have... It's a universal story. Okay. The movie's directed by Norman Jewish. who's not a Jew. He's got Jew in the name, and he's not Jewish. I think, by the way,

like, obviously, there is an issue where some Jewish characters don't go to Jewish. Actors is a big problem, but I have never... I think there are sometimes, it just seems like... Right? Like, Paul Dano

reminded Steven Spielberg of his dad, and Michelle Williams, like, I used to go to Stephen Seaborg's mom, restaurant in LA, she owned a kosher restaurant. I was keeping strictly kosher at the time. Yeah. Michelle Williams, like, exactly like Steven Seorg's mom. Like, when I saw her

on screen, my mouth dropped open. I was like, that's Leia Adler. Like, that is Stephen's mom. I can't believe it. It's crazy. So, like, I'm not the authority on this. I will say that if you play Tevia, I'll buy a ticket. My bigger question

is, can you sing? No. Well, that's fucking offensive then. I'll take some lessons. Fine, take some lessons. But yeah, I'd love to see. If Al Pacino can play Shylock to great acclaim, you can play a little Tevia, all right?

I think that's all right. Yentil? Biennue at board of Viarai. Embarked and profite. Embarked and relaxe. Cirote. Bookine. Oh, that also.

And profite. Villaray, the voice that we love that we love. Listen, Barbara, you don't fuck with Barbara, all right? Don't fuck with Barbara. You stay away, I don't care. You stay away from Barbara. Have you met Barbara? Never. I have never met Barbara.

I've not even come close. I don't even know where you'd go to meet her. Maybe Malibu Country Market or something? Yeah. Yeah, where would you go to me behind Barbara? I don't know. I'm asking you guys. Where would you go to?

I think she is, she is, her and Spielberg, to me, are like the uncomfortable analogy here, but they're the twin towers of Judaism. They're fantastic. To be alive at the same time as them and Mel Brooks. And Jerry, like, we've got a pretty decent Mount Rushmore. No, a huge Mount Rushmore. I mean, come on. It's crazy.

How you feel about the temperature of the times right now being Jewish? Tough. Where do you feel, like, how hot is this heat? It's bad. I was always an anti-Semitism minimalist. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I was always one of those guys

whenever anyone's like, there's a swastika in the New York Times crossword puzzle. I'm like, there's not swastika in the New York. You know how hard it is to make crosswords? Like, every crossword puzzle should be a swastika. It may easy, the boxes go this way. It's so dumb.

But like, but it's a, I think it's a tricky time. I think, also, I was raised with a very, like, I say a thing in my special that, like, Judaism is a mailing list you can never unsubscribe from. So, like, even if Jews are, like, if a Jew is like, every Jew should be, you know,

hurt it up and shuttled into camps, that person's still a Jew. Like, the person who says it is still a Jew. And, like, they're in your community, and you have to reckon with them. And so, like, the thing that troubles me, beyond the horrific deepening crisis in Israel and Palestine, which is its own thing,

is the deep divisions that it's riven into the Jewish community and how unpassable those things seem. And I think if it's ever going to be addressed or fixed or you're ever going to bring change to the situation that's actually happening there, You need to have those conversations. And the fact of the matter is, I think that those conversations seem more and more difficult to have. So not only is that there's a lot of anti-Semitism towards Jews of all political persuasions,

it's also really hard for Jews to talk to each other. And people get tagged with their political beliefs or they get tagged with how they feel about the situation in Palestine. Stein and Israel. And it's just, it feels, I have never found it so hard to have productive conversations my entire life. And so that's really, really tough for me. It's crazy that that's tough for you, that within the Jewish community and then the national

discourse in the U.S. is the same thing. So you've got two fractures. Forget about it. It's also like, I, my, the, part of the reason my special did well. I think was that there was a deep conversation and consideration of what we owe the people who do not see us as human. Yeah.

As, as human. Like, it's me going to this meeting of white nationalists in Queens. They don't care for me as a Jew. And how much consideration do I owe them? That is the question. Yeah. That is at the core of the special.

Yeah. And so the idea was that it was like this radically, this act of, like, radical empathy. And, like, given what just happened, and, like, you're free to cut this out of it's too much or something. But, like, given what's gone on with Charlie Kirk, I feel that those notions have really been challenged.

And even within myself, some of those notions have been really challenged. And, like, what notions? Of how empathetic we, of what empathy we owe with heavy air quotes around these words, the other side. And what empathy were owed from the other side. Like watching people make referendums on whether or not Charlie, it's like a good thing of Charlie Kirk was killed

or making referendums on people's speech around you. or making referendums on how much celebration of his life there needs to be. The fact that that's, that conversation feels really, really dangerous and really, really fraught with stakes, I think is not a good thing. Yeah. I think like... It shows where the, it shows how, what the temperature is. I've lost a lot of respect for a lot of people, but also like, sometimes I, I question

my own positions on how I feel about it. And I worry that, like, we're not in a moment where people can change their mind easily. And that feels really dangerous to me. And, like, I think as those things harden, it makes discourse a lot harder. And when discourse gets, and, like, action follows discourse. So, like, when people get really stubborn

and stick to their guns and can't have conversations with people who feel differently from them, and try to get them fired or, you know, insist that the other side is the sole party in terms of political violence or something. Like, it's just a really, it feels like a really bad place to be in. Yeah, and it's been awful in the extreme on all sides. It's been just so horrible.

I saw this great line when, you know, we still are all one country. And they were saying that we, you know, we were saying that, we have to return to a time when you look at the other side as someone who could be persuaded, not someone who needs to be destroyed. And that really, to me, really resonated because it's, we are all in the same family. We all, if any, if any part of us loses, we all lose. So you've got to, you have to just nudge and kind of meet in different little places that are going to rise us all up. the idea that you can destroy half and be successful yourself just doesn't exist. It's a really, I also, I don't remember, besides like Teutonic events like 9-11 or, you know,

which I was a child for, there were days this month where I just woke up and felt bad. Yeah. And it was just like the atmosphere that we're living in where it's like, and also like discord the discord and and and i'm not kidding i have friends who are of every political stripe and one of them said to me like well you know asking to empathize it's it's it's usually people in positions of power who are asking other folks to empathize with with them and like you know that was something to consider too and like i just feel exhausted from not having certainty. Like I was raised in Judaism. You were raised with this

such discourse. There's so much discourse in Judaism. And you listen to every position. And sometimes they don't even tell you which one is right. Most of the time, they don't tell you which one is right. They're like, here are all the positions. You're free to pick one or you're free to think, whatever you think, but here are all the different ways you can read a thing. And so like, sometimes I meet people who have certainty. And I'm like, I envy your moral clear. to a degree that like, I change my mind all the time. Yeah, I change my mind. It's so exhausting to be a person that changes their mind.

I know, exactly. I'm just like, oh my gosh, well, this can't continue. I was with you until now, but it can't keep going. Yeah. It's, yeah, as a Jew, I'm really scared. Also, as a Jew, I found a lot of comfort in other Jews who are, who are, like, having a discourse. And, like, ultimately, though, I'm an optimist.

Like, I think it's going to work out. You got to have hope. I have this thing in me that's... You need hope sickening, where I'm like, I truly am an optimist. Like, I really feel, like, great solutions have always been preceded by great problems. Like, saw curing polio last week. Like, it's really great... Yeah.

But that's, like, there is something to... We'll figure it out. Yeah, I hope so. I hope so. You have to have hope. Yeah. This was fantastic. This is great. Thank you so much for your hat. And also, like, I'm sure we went long and I'm sure we don't have time for this. But, like, truly, like, you've always been one of my favorite stand-ups. And it's because you're one of those really rare comics where, like, you don't waste time up there. And your writing and performing are both, like, really, really peerless. And it's really professional without. never being boring. It's like a very, there's so much momentum to your stuff. And like, and I remember as a young person doing a thing when you're at, I still do sometimes when you're at the cellar, which is like,

I stand in the back and watch. Like, your writing is such a sense of authorship. And so like, I think I had really good role models when I was starting. And you were one of them in our one. And so I'm really psyched to get to be on your podcast. Thank you, because I didn't think we had a clip until now. No, I think we have something for social media. Great.

But also, you know, it was when I was getting ready to come, sit down with you, you know, I didn't want to come off as like the old man, but watching you from this kid who just showed up and just wanted to poke around and be at the cellar and to see what you're achieving and how you've just grown as a person and an artist has been really. You know, I hesitate to say I'm proud. of you because I'm I don't I'm not your dad but I am proud of you that's really nice to

watch and I always wonder if comics like I remember when Seinfeld was sitting there so you try to stay present but it was so hard to stay present but I was doing it but I had this thought like about 40 40 just before 45 minutes into the show where I was like oh fuck I wonder if he can see himself like I wonder if he can see his fingerprints yeah or I wonder if you can see his fingerprints yeah or I if like you know i got a nice note from aaron sorkin about the paper uh which was really nice and he you know and i think he's watched some of my stand up and i remember thinking like i wonder if sorkin can see his own fingerprints yeah yeah and like i wonder if people when they watch me like if some if like maria banford or sarah silverman or yeah or even like the guy i used to like a guy i love in the

uk name stewart lee uh like these british comics daniel ketson josie long i sometimes wonder if when they're watching me, they can see the little bits of like themselves in it. Yeah, yeah, it's great. It's the beauty of this whole ride. All right. We got it. That was really great.

I appreciate it. I started to explode. All right, we got it. This is so cool. Very cool. Do you think you guys have clips? When you were pretty, you've been braced,

you're in trying to negotiate, to make sure in case, the apply negotiates-sit-sitre-t-D you permit to renouet with this this instinct, with without operation gratuite, no amount of minimum, and no free mensual. You're made for negotiate,

and the TD is there to you're there to help.