Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 287 - Tara Punzone

Episode Date: October 10, 2025

Today, the incredible chef, Tara Punzone joins us at the table! Things are about to get really Italian. Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Oh, so see. And profite. Viaray, the voice that we've had a lot of nieces and nephews who, you know, have changed their diet. And it's an uproar in an Italian house. Yeah, but, you know, it led me down a path of loving stand-up comedy. How so? Because I think that you have to learn how to learn how to. laugh at things that are difficult. And sometimes it was difficult. But if I couldn't laugh with them

at myself, then I was going to be in big trouble. That's great. That's brilliant. So I had to figure that out. Yeah. Yeah, because if you fight back and take offense to it, either the relationships break up or you start eating me. It's breaking bread. So nice to see you. Amazing. We met once before. We did? Yes. We've met. Matt once before in your beautiful restaurant. I'm embarrassed. No, don't be embarrassed. How long ago was this?

This was, I'm going to put it at three months, no, six months ago. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I'm going to, no, it's quite all right because I was with, I was with two famous people. Okay. And who you know well. Okay. So this. Is this a test?

It is a test. I'm going to see if you can guess who they are. Okay. Because, because, yeah, that's, I take no offense to not remembering. We just met kind of briefly at the table. And because you're one of their favorite restaurant. They are vegans. Okay.

They're pretty badass. Okay. Are they musicians? Mm-hmm. One of them. And it was about three months ago? Six. Are they like regulars?

They were when they were in L.A. Oh, so they're not located in L.A. Yeah, they've kind of gone back east for, but they were L.A. for a while. Oh, my goodness. Rockstar. What kind of me? Rockstar's wife. Also makes movies.

Oh, my God. Lots of tattoos. I'm just, trying to think of who's in it. Do they live in New York? They live in, no. They were L.A. They were L.A. and they used to go to you all the time. Oh, wow. So it's not like Lars Ulrich and his wife. No. It's not, because all of the musicians I know are in L.A. Still, though. Mm-hmm. Well, obviously not all of them. Yeah. He also makes films. Scary films.

scary movies. Oh my God. Rob Zombie and Sherry Moon. Yes. You were with them? Yes. I was blinded by the beauty of the zombies. I'm so sorry.

They are beautiful. They're both beautiful and badass. I do too. They're like my favorite couple of all time. Yeah. And so maybe you're such friends with them that you don't think rock star. No, you know what? I hadn't seen them in a very, very long time.

And so I was just excited to see them again because it had been a while. Yeah. And I was like, hey, my name's Tom. You were like, whatever. I'm so sorry. No, it's right. Right. And yeah, they're the best. Super cool. I hope you enjoyed everything. Oh, my God. Were you there with your wife? I was with my wife. I remember you were a D-13, the big table all the way in the back. That's right. Yeah. That's right. And the one thing we didn't do because the momentum was carrying us out. Someone had to go somewhere was I didn't get to go see the oven. You would offer to see the, The pizza oven. Which matches this couch beautiful.

Oh, it does? Yeah. I bake this bread for you. Thank you. I can't wait to eat it. You know, it's always odd. Thank you for bringing me something. Yes.

Thank you for knowing what pinole cookies are. Oh, my. It's my favorite cookie in the world. A pinole nut cookie is amaze balls. When we first opened the restaurant, we started making them. And amongst other things, nobody in L.A. knew what they were. Pinole cookies, nobody knew what they were. Nobody knew what they were.

Broccoli Robb. Nobody knew what it was. What year was this? 2018. Wow. You know, I think... Not long ago. Yeah, I think that the culture, the Italian culture in L.A. is a little flattened out.

You know, we're trying to revive it. I'll participate in that. We, Jimmy Kimmelam. Oh, I love Jimmy Kimmel. And he was, you know, he would have the feast. He replicated the feast out here. Mm-hmm. And he's always pushing the Italians.

So I'm all in. I think we should do more. Yeah, I think so too. This is amazing. When does he have a feat? Do you like them? Yeah. Now, let me go right to it because our listeners, I'll probably have a little intro on this,

but you run this amazing Italian restaurant. And not only is it like a cool hang and great pizzas and great everything, but the kind of the hidden fact is that it's a VATI. vegan restaurant. Yes. And when you're talking about, you know, I make a lot of Italian at home. And, you know, a lot of it just ends up vegan by mistake, you know, just doing stuff with tomatoes or whatever and pastas and stuff. The bake goods, though, how do you get a pinolini duck cookie to taste exactly like every pinolini cookie I've ever had without using butter? I mean, you just have to have good vegan butter. That's really the only thing.

I don't know pinoli cookies to have eggs in them, although, you know, I'm not, I'm not known to be a baker, but I do my best with certain things. Yeah, this is so good. Something like a pinoli cookie was like something that I just missed so much as a kid, you know, like I used to eat them, and then I couldn't eat them anymore, and I was like, I got to figure this out. When did you go vegan? Oh, so I've been vegetarian since I'm 10, and it took me a few years to figure out the vegan thing probably by the time I was about 12. Oh, wow. That's young. Very. What was the influence? Where to come from?

And this is my greatest question. I'm going to ask you right now, because it is the biggest thing on my mind. I went vegan for a while when I hung out with the zombies. I was so proud. Like, they make veganism seem like the coolest thing you possibly do? Yeah. And I was so like. Because it is, obviously.

Yeah. And when I met him, I was like, I felt cool that I was doing something in the he was expected and cherry. And then I walked into an Italian deli and all of the things from my childhood cascaded on my head, the smells of all of the meats and the cheeses and the whatever. And I started going back. At such a young age, how did you, I could see it as an adult when you're out in the world by yourself, but when you're home growing up as an Italian, and there's all these people around, where did you get the guts to say I'm not eating that? I just love animals. And I always did

when I was a little girl. I just, it's just part of who I am. I just love animals. But, you know, as a little kid, you don't really understand how food gets on your plate. So there were things that I wouldn't eat because I did sort of understand it, I think. Like, I wouldn't eat like, I wouldn't eat, chicken on a bone because I was always like, oh, that's weird. It's like a dead body. And I why would I put that in my mouth? Like it just, I just didn't understand why we were doing certain things. Yeah. But then my mom would make, you know, a gigantic trough of meatballs and I would go at it. I mean, because it was like disassociation. Yeah. And then in the fifth grade, I had a teacher who showed the class a video of a slaughterhouse. And that kind of,

kind of made enough of a connection for me. It was terrifying. And I was like, wow, I really just don't want to be a part of any of that. Yeah. So it started with that, basically. And were any grandparents or anything because like mock you or push you? Oh, the amount of fun that was made in my direction from my entire adolescence is beyond anything. I don't know. I mean. It's the hardest thing. As an Italian-American, I don't think there's anybody that could chart a more difficult path. I was the brunt of every joke. Every meal that was eaten. Every joke was thrown at me.

Every single time. Right. But it made me more, it made me like dig my heels in deeper because it's just, I am also the kind of person that's like, go ahead and tell me I can't do something. Right. And watch me do it every bit of it, you know? So that, you know, in the way that that would be discouraging to other people to be fun of, I found it to be like empowering in some strange way.

Yeah, yeah. But man, the amount of jokes. We've had, so my wife's a vegetarian. When I met her, I was vegan, she was vegetarian. And I brought her around to meet the family. And they didn't understand what was happening. My mother made a bolognaise sauce, big meat sauce. But you were vegan.

And but yeah, but, you know, recently, you know, and, uh, and she made this bolognaise sauce. And I said, you know, Cynthia doesn't eat that. And my mother's solution was just to take the sauce off the top. Yeah. And give that to her. And I was like, this is, this isn't going to work. Yeah. That's a rough.

That's a rough one to explain. It took years. That it's just like, just peel the cheese off the pizza. Right. No. Right. Yeah. And we've had a lot of nieces and nephews who, you know, have changed their diet and it's an uproar in an Italian house.

Yeah. But, you know, it led me down a path of loving stand-up comedy. How so? Because I think that you have to learn how to laugh at things that are difficult. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it was difficult. but if I couldn't laugh with them at myself, then I was gonna be in big trouble.

That's great. That's brilliant. So I had to figure that out. Yeah. Yeah, because if you fight back and take offense to it, either the relationships break up or you start eating meat. Right, and I love my family, so it's like that's the most important thing in the world to me. My choice to not eat animals shouldn't be a reflection on them in any way. Yeah.

But it is a reflection on me. So, you know, I had to learn how to find the humor in it, you know, basically. Yeah. And I can laugh at it. I don't think it's funny. Right. In the sense that I think I'm doing something that's positive and beneficial to animals. Yeah.

And it turns out, it had nothing to do with it when I was a kid, but it turns out it's also really good for your health and also the environment. But who cared about that when I was 12? not me. Right. I just didn't want to kill like that beautiful little doe-eyed, you know, it's just was so strange to me. Did you have pets? I had a bird. Oh, yeah.

I wasn't allowed to have a dog or a cat growing up. Where did you grow up, by the way? In Long Island. So I'm from Brooklyn, but our neighborhood started to get a little rough around the edges. So they moved us to Oyster Bay, Long Island. Okay. And so I went to school there. We spent a lot of time still in Brooklyn because all my family lived there.

Yeah. My mother and I were always in the city. And we were really like Long Island people, but I did go to school in Long Island. I have like a little bit of a disassociation with the, I never really wanted to be there. Yeah. But it was a beautiful place to go to school. It was safe. And I made amazing friends that I still have.

Sure. So there's that. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, when you're growing up in Brooklyn, there's a certain New York city thing. I mean, Brooklyn just has so much. More culture and it's so much more interesting. Yeah. I grew up in New Jersey, northern New Jersey, and we had family in Brooklyn and stuff like that, too.

But we grew up in New Jersey. And it always makes me laugh when I tore around and perform back there that the people from Long Island are like New Jersey. And the people from New Jersey, like, Long Island. And you're like, you're exactly the same. You're the same people. There's no difference. No, like literally. The only difference is you root for the mess.

and they root for the Yankees. And like you're accustomed to deer and we're accustomed to raccoons. But rather than that. Exactly the same. Do you, brothers and sisters? I have a brother. A brother. Yes.

And... Whose main job throughout his entire life was to rip me to shreds. Older? 13 years older. 13 years older? Yeah. And he was a bully? Oh, in the most fabulous way, though.

Oh, okay. When we first opened the restaurant, somebody did a social media post and my brother being, you know, the professional fun poker that he is, commented on some post that we did saying like, but, you know, but bacon, but what about, you know, and somebody from Mercy for Animals came straight to my defense like, like, how dare you talk to her like that, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, guys, settle down. It's just my brother. It's his job. Let him do his job. Let him feel good about it. This is our routine.

We've been doing it for years. Amazing. Who was the best cook when you were growing up? Was it? That's hard because my grandparents, my dad's side, were professionally cooking. So I would like to say them. But they died when I was pretty young. Well, my grandpa died when I was pretty young.

And my mom and dad were both amazing cooks and kind of different styles. So I'm so spoiled. Were they both Italian? Yeah. When it comes to food, it's just like I had, I had, you know, my mom was a little bit more traditional, southern Italian. My dad's family came from Calabria, so it was like spicy. And everything he made was just spicy with a little sweet. And so that's my, you know, that's my kryptonite.

I'm just like, that's what I love so much. Yeah. He used to make these hot peppers for me, for us, when I was really, really young, because he was like, it's going to make you strong and it's going to make you tough and all these things. Oh, really? And we would have contests to see who could eat the most hot peppers. And now I win. My dad is now 84, so I finally win. He's out.

He's tapped out. He hasn't fully tapped out. He still plays the game, but a little more slowly. What kind of peppers are in the challenge? Is it? Well, in New York and in New Jersey, we had the Italian longhats. Did you ever eat those? You can't get them here.

No, you can. Nobody knows what they are. It's so strange. It is really strange. But he would make those every Sunday. And it was always a variation of, you know, oil, garlic, breadcrum, and some kind of nut and some raisins or something sweet. But pretty simple. Yeah.

And it was always vegan, turns out. Yeah. A lot of things that we ate were vegan. That's the beauty. Yeah, that's the thing that people don't realize. And when I started, my mother said, yeah, but what are you going to eat? I was like, I don't know. We'll figure it out.

Yeah. And as we started going through it, I realized, well, I can eat that. Yeah. Well, I can eat that, you know. Yeah. Just leave the cheese off the top of it. That's it. I know, exactly.

This is a funny side note. You have a recipe in the book for minestrone. And I came home last night and my wife had made minestrone and vegan. and I was so pleasantly surprised. I was like, oh, this is so great. I came home. There's this giant minestrone. And she put cheese on it.

And yes, if I wanted it, and I said, no, you know, it doesn't eat cheese. And she thought I was being a good vegan. And it's really just, I don't like cheese flavor on minestrone. There's something about that combination. Yeah. that is really off-putting. I think minestrone is like one of those things that you eat and it's so clean and so pure and the flavor of all the vegetables that are in it should shine through and not be covered

up with cheese. No, exactly. Yeah, it's kind of this weird sour smell and I just never liked it. However, that dipped in some minestrone. Yeah. That would be where my eyeballs would be. That's exactly what I did. It's exactly what I did.

I might have to make minestrone tonight. Oh, so good. So good. She went to walk the dog. She's like, well, you keep an eye on the stir it? Yeah, yeah, I got you. And I immediately took bread and started going on, just dipping right in it. And she said, I'm just going to see if it needs more salt and pepper.

And I didn't want to bust myself. So I was like, yeah, it's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, but yeah, taste it. I've got a good idea. Yeah. What is the butter that you use for these pinole nut cookies? I use Miyokos, the European-style salted butter.

I think that's the best butter that's on the market. What's the best cheese on the market? Oh, boy. Because you make killer pizzas. Yeah, but we make our own cheese. Oh, that's right. Right. Yeah.

You make your own cheese. Yeah. How do you do that? Most of it is nut based, so the mozzarella is nut based, cashews. Mm-hmm. And it's really kind of simple. The recipe's in there. Oh, it is?

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Go wrong in what way? That it'll stick and just become a blob. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But otherwise it's easy. It's only a few ingredients and it doesn't. take that long and it's pretty versatile. Your pizzas are killer. Thank you. Yeah. What's your dough? Your bread was killer too. It's traditional. It's just, you know, we use fresh yeast. That's the most important thing. Right. I think natural yeast is a little harsh on the tummy, or at least on mine. Yeah. And we ferment it naturally. Yeah. And much like sourdough, I mean, it's, we don't use a start We do, like, we don't use a starter that we feed every day, but we do put some of the last batch into the next batch. So it's like a constant ever-growing, you know. Yeah, yeah. It's super simple and traditional. Yeah. And contrary to what people think, there are no eggs or dairy products or whatever people think in pizza dough, or at least there should not be. No, there shouldn't be. I don't know how other people are making their pizza.

Yeah, yeah. It is. I'm telling you that's, I mean, your place, the vibe of the place too is so great. Thank you. You definitely have, it's a place you want to be. It's like, it's cool. It's, it's home. It feels coming from East Coast Italian, it feels like, oh man, there's not a lot of these places out here. Yeah, thank you. I intentionally, you know, I'm from New York. I came to L.A. kind of kicking and screaming, although I love it now. But I didn't want to live here. I was like, really. against the idea of moving here. And I just wanted to make a place that felt nostalgic to me. And I didn't know if it was going to work in L.A. Because it's not nostalgic to everybody else. Right, right. But it is, though. That's the thing. I know. There's so many New Yorkers here. So many. It's really true. What brought you? And New Jerseyers. Do you say that? Yeah, New Jerseyites. New Jerseyites. So what brought you out that you were kicking a screen? Was it love? Yes, love. Mm-hmm.

Always. Get you every time. Always. We're still together, though, so it works. You are? Yeah. It's good. Yeah.

And they wanted to come out more than you did. Yeah, so when we met in New York, he was already planning to move here. And I was like, why are we on a date right now? This is such a waste of time. There's no future. Yeah. Well, I would never move to L.A. That's literally what I said.

Yeah. I would never move there under any circumstances. Oops. turns out he was just handsome enough. Yeah, I figured, you know, it's time to make a concession and try something that makes me uncomfortable. And if I hate it that much, I could always go back. Brooklyn's not going anywhere.

Yeah, yeah. Except that literally the next day, my $1,900 apartment was, I think, $3,800. My landlord was like, are you sure? Are you sure, sure? Oh, to let this place go? Are you sure you don't want to just hold on to your place until you see if you like it and then maybe come back? And I was like, I feel like that's not the right way to do it because then I'm going to be planning to not like it and to come back. Yeah.

That's, yeah. So I just let it go. It was hard. I cried all the way. We had a couple of those apartments in New York, my wife and I. And it was like through like her friends, like it was her and her. friend got the apartment first. This is in Manhattan. And it was just so dirt cheap and a nice size place. And it was like her friend under her friend's name, her friend's sister's name who's

no longer around. And like the mail had to come and it was always. And then she had to pretend she was there. And then I'm in this picture and like, who are you? That's such a New York thing. Yeah, I'm Jen's brother. I don't know. The ruse that was on for eight years. Just to save the rent. Just to save that rent. Because, yeah, if they'd flipped it, it would have.

Yeah, that's how New York works. It's like, you can't step away. No. You just get swallowed up. Yeah. And it's hard to go back because we lived there forever and we were back and forth forever with my kids and stuff after we got married. and we shut down.

So we always had a place in both. And then we shut down New York. And because the kids had school and wanted friends. And so we picked L.A. So overrated. Yeah, I know, exactly. They'll learn. And there is something about not having the place that makes it almost seem impossible to go back.

Yeah. That whole just the, it's not. No, of mental thing of like going and getting a spot again. right? It's like a big deal. I also, yes, because just the, I mean, not that LA is so much more affordable than New York, but it's just different. Yeah. But I also think about my whole life, I hated the winter. Yeah. Really hated it. Yeah. I was never the kid that liked snow. I dealt with it when I was a kid, but then as I got older, I was like, yeah, I'm good. Yeah. I think I'm just going to stay inside and make soup. Yeah. I just hated it. And, you know, it. And,

it never occurred to me at any point in my life that you don't have to suffer through winter. Like New Yorkers out there, like who are listening, you don't have to suffer through winter. Yeah. There is an alternative. You can get the hell out of there. Yes. And now I'm here in La La Land and I'm freezing when it's 60 degrees and I'm like embarrassed. Yeah.

You really lose it. Yeah. You really lose it. Definitely takes the edge of. code at 65. I always have a scarf on. It's like 70 degrees out. Everybody's like,

what is wrong with you? I was just talking about that today. Like putting out Halloween decorations. And it's like, you know, in October it's going to be 100. Yeah. It's going to be 100.

It's got all this stuff's going to melt. Do you visit? Like going back and forth is the key, I think. Yeah. I mean, I still love it. It's my city. It's never going to change.

You can't, you can't ever fall out of love with New York. I think when you grow up there, there's just some special, magic that that place provides. Always. It probably doesn't provide people who didn't grow up there. I mean, I think it's a different perspective. They're overwhelmed by it. They think it's too much. Yeah. And when you're there, it's like, no, this is just enough. Yeah. It's very comforting. I know. Like the minute, the last time I was just there a month ago, and like the minute I got out, like I took, you know, the JFK, the little train to Jamaica station and then to Penn Station. And I

stepped out of Penn Station and I was like, oh, I know. There was just sirens everywhere. And like homeless people ask, you know, asking for food. And I was just like, this feels so normal. Yeah, this feels so nice. Yeah. I know. I had an appointment last Monday and early in the morning and I came out. And I was like, I got to get back down to the hotel down in Soho. And I was like, it's so nice. I'm just going to walk. I haven't walked.

Why am I getting an Uber right now? And I just went for like an hour. Yeah. And just the amount of conversations, signage, people's faces. I had more experience in that walk. A hundred percent. And I've had out here in probably like six months. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. But. And the one thing I loved, like especially working in restaurants and stuff, was like I mentioned the homeless, so that obviously there's homeless people everywhere, but here you have to have to. really sort of, not to say you don't have to be careful everywhere, but you have to really sort of be careful. Yeah. But my favorite thing in the world was to like be testing a bunch of food and then

just bring it outside. Right. So that you don't have to waste anything. And they're so grateful. And it's like, and sometimes the best critics, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like, no, this is not good. It's too crunchy or whatever, you know. And I miss that interaction, you know? And I feel like here it's a little bit more nerve-wracking because you're really not sure, like, I don't know. There are some people who are outside the restaurant who I feed very regularly. Yeah.

But, you know. But there's something about New York, even just all the people on the street are just like part of like an organism. Yeah. And it's just different. No, you're right. I mean, this place is isolating.

L.A. is isolating. Yeah. And for people that are suffering like that, It's got to be even more. Even more so. More alone. Yeah. More, yeah.

You know, it is a, I never understand that with restaurants, even like in Las Vegas and stuff that people throw stuff away. I know. At the end, like in Vegas, when I would do these things, you know, like a big giant, like tons of food. Yeah. And like the laws don't let them give it out. Yeah, because if you make somebody sick, it's still your responsibility.

Right. It's an interesting law. Yeah. Yeah. It's really strange. I mean, it's to protect people, so it's for a good reason, but... Yeah, but it seems so wasteful. Like, there's got to be another way to kind of figure out.

But besides the sort of leftover stuff that you're trying to get rid of, there's mistakes that happen all throughout the night in a restaurant. Right. You know, somebody orders a pizza, oops, they forgot to tell you they have a nut allergy. So now you've made this pizza. What do you do with it? There's only so much pizza that my staff can eat, although they would argue that. Yeah.

They've all gained like 10 pounds since they started working with me. Yeah. But you've got to bring some of it out. outside sometimes, you know? Yeah, yeah, right, exactly. Yeah. So at what point do you start, as a kid, start noodling around in the kitchen with all these elders? Yeah.

Where you start to kind of fall in love with the process. I, I mean, I was pretty young. It was not in a serious way at all. Yeah. But my parents were sort of like, I mean, my parents are very, very supportive. My father made fun of me. That's the male way in my, you know, in my family. My mom was a little bit more like, okay, I'm going to read every ingredient of everything

I buy for the rest of my life. Like she would just... On board. She was like, I'm going to do the job that I'm here to do. Right. Which is amazing. Yeah. Because other people's mothers would have been like, you're going to eat what I make

or you're not going to eat, you know? Yeah, yeah. But I didn't have that. So they were kind of like, you know, they cooked every night. every single day. So it was like, we want to make sure that we're doing what you want, but we're not exactly sure what that is. So be in the kitchen with us. So I started to just be in the kitchen with them. Not that I knew how to cook, but I would just be like helping around with like the smaller parts of whatever they were making. And it was so much fun to be in the

kitchen with them. Right. And then you realize like the kitchen is the cool place to be anywhere, Whether it's in a house, in a business, it doesn't matter. That's where the party is happening. Every party we have, it's the biggest challenge is getting people out of the kitchen. Yeah, yeah. And so I just started having a lot of fun with them. And then, of course, naturally, like, learning things along the way. And I started to try to – it all started with the lasagna on Easter.

Uh-huh. Because that's the huge tradition. They would make several trays of lasagna. Yeah. I was like, this stinks. I don't want to not be a part of this tradition. Yes. Because now I'm going to start losing hold of like what I, like I'm, you know, I am a stereotypical Italian American that's very proud of my heritage. I don't want to lose that just because I don't want to eat animals. Like I don't feel like it's, that's not a fair thing for me to have to do. And so I just didn't want to accept that. So I tried to make lasagna on Easter when I was like, I don't know, I think I was like 14. fail. Tough. Bad.

Yeah. My dad was like, nope. Not even that. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, I'm sure the cheese. It got pushed all the way to the side. I mean, the game wasn't even set up for you to get close to achieving that. Not even close.

No. Like, I basically, I mean, my mom made the sauce, so that part was great. That's fine. Pasta was great. Fine. But the cheese, yeah, like I didn't know. Ricotta and mozzarella. I didn't know how to make any type of cheese.

So I just used tofu and kind of like put garlic and parsley and like crumbled it up. Not a bad attempt. Yeah, but it but yeah, it kind of was though. Thank you. It kind of was a bad idea because it tasted like tofu with parsley and garlic in it. But like the tofu, the tofu as a replacement for like eggs in a breakfast burrito. That's delicious. Yeah, that really works.

I also didn't figure that out yet. But I also didn't grow up eating breakfast burritos. Right now. I didn't have that luxury or need. Yeah. But yeah, it took me a while to figure it out that I started blending the tofu and then I learned about nutritional yeast. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's huge.

Mind-blown. And then I started learning about nuts and how they provide this other texture. And then the game was on. Right. Yeah. So what was the first achievement? When did you nail the lasagna? So the first achievement was just, so every Sunday, because lasagna was Easter, but every Sunday, my, you know, my mom, it was pasta Sunday, like we all have.

Yeah. And they would always have. They would have a giant bowl of like fresh ricotta that they would put on their, on their pasta. And I didn't get to have that. So that was what I was just trying. And I knew in the back of my mind, okay, if I, if I could figure this out, then I could probably figure out the lasagna thing too. So let me just figure this out. Yeah. And I knew that. I had got, I knew that I was on to something because I would make it, people would taste it, oh yeah, you know, kind of, whatever. And then one day I made it and my brother tasted it. And he went, yeah, you know, and then he did this. And I went, hoho. And I went, ho.

Yeah. What was that? I saw that. And that's when I knew. I was like, okay, I think, I think I've, I think I've, I think I've, I've turned a corner. Yeah, yeah. And that's so exciting and that's the part of making food that's so exciting when you figure something out that somebody who swears to not like it ends up liking, you really feel like you've accomplished, you know. And what was that ricotta? How like about?

It's in the book. It is tofu based but it also has cashew in it. And it's just a combination of the fluffiness of the tofu and also the fatiness of the cashews together. is the proper texture because you don't want to have no fat and just fluff and you don't want to have all fat

because then it's just like spread. Right, right. So yeah. Talk about fat. I mean, the Spinolea, it's like it's been dipped in butter. Like really, it's nice and shiny. Really?

I mean, it's almost like your journey of discovering this stuff, it kind of is in sync with the way that culture was kind of evolving. because, I mean, it was, there was no options out there for people that were going to eat vegan. Like, there was, like, one kind of a cheese and not great. Yeah. You would go to restaurants, and it was, like, insane.

Like, don't even, don't even say the word. Yeah. And, like, I used to, when I was starting my stand-up career, I would go to Cleveland. And, you know, Cleveland, you know, meat and potatoes, culture, you know, pastrami. And, I mean, it was just, there was no. one little health food place around the corner from the club where you could go and get healthy vegan food, one tiny little place.

And you know, no vibe. No. Like a storefront. And it's mostly like hummus and sprouts. Let's be real. Yeah, right. It was rough. 20 years later.

And that smell. Yeah, yeah. You know the smell? You know the smell? Yeah, it's very universal. 20 years later, every restaurant, they opened up this main street with like these really well-known chefs

and some are just vegan, some have, but every menu has something on it. Markets are serving, have all of these different options. Like, if you were to go and eat that way now, it is night and day from when it started. And it's kind of the story you're telling. It's like that was happening while you were evolving. Yeah. I mean, I was lucky enough to be in New York. And so we had a handful of institutions that will be famous for the rest of, at least in my head.

as like the first places that were really doing it right, you know? Yeah, yeah. But in other places outside of New York, I mean, in Long Island, there was nothing. No, zero. Nothing. Like, it was, it was embarrassing that it was so dry. It's crazy that there's no even thought. Like, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't, they, it's not that they were rejecting it.

It just wasn't even in. It wasn't even a thought. Yeah. It wasn't part of a conversation. Yeah. Unless they were making fun of me. But even that was like, let that happen because then you're talking about it. And at least there's some kind of awareness, even though in your mind you're making fun of me,

it's now it's in your head. It's like a seed. You plant a seed because I can't tell you how many people made fun of me my whole childhood who are now vegan. Right. And I'm like, it was a seed. Yeah. I dropped it.

I sprinkled it around. Yeah. And I just stepped back. Yeah. And for some it grew and for some it didn't. But, you know, even if one person makes the decision to do something that's better for animals, better for the environment, better for their health. Yeah.

That's like a huge accomplishment. Good on you. Back to the bird. What was the bird's name? His name was Eddie. Eddie. Yeah. Eddie.

What kind of bird? He was an Alexandrian ringneck. What's that? A green parrot. A green parrot. Yeah. Could he talk? He said a few little things, but not.

Not really. Yeah. He said I'm a good boy. Turns out he was a girl. I had the first transgender parrot. Why did you end up with a parrot? Was it your wish? No, I wanted cats.

I always wanted cats. I'm an animal person, but I'm a cat person. Yeah, yeah. And I did have a colony of cats that I took care of that were outside. But I wasn't allowed to have an animal inside except like hamsters and like these small. or things that like, you know, they didn't have like a long lifespan. Yeah. The amount of hamsters that like, you know, how many times can your little tiny child heartbreak?

Yeah. I couldn't handle it. So my brother took me to, there was a store in Long Island. There was this like local guy who was like a real wonky guy. His name was Mark. And he had like his own TV show and everything on like the local news where he would talk about, you know, how to deal with certain pets and like, animal psychology and all this crazy stuff. And so my brother took me to his store and just like there was like this tank full of

freshly born birds that had no feathers or anything. Whoa. And he just like, Mark just like put this bird in my hands and I felt this overwhelming sense of responsibility because this thing was like, you know, did ever see a naked tiny baby bird? Like, these big bowl of his eyes. So fragile. Yeah. And so I love the shit out of that bird.

Wow. How long did he live? Oh, my God. He lived like 30 something. He just passed like, no. Yeah, like maybe seven or eight just before the restaurant opened. Really? Mm-hmm.

Yeah, he died in my dad's hands. It was a mess. Oh. It was rough. Yeah. Oh. I know. I know.

What do you mean it was rough? They weren't expecting. thing years of... And everyone loved him. Yeah. Everyone loved Eddie. But particularly me and my dad. Yeah.

Because he loved me and my dad. He didn't love anybody else. Oh, really? No, no, no, no. He was very selective with his love. Everybody else got the beak. Oh, Eddie. Just pecking people.

Yeah. No, he could like break your finger. He had a big, big strong beak, yeah. Oh, man. He was red as this couch. Yeah. Did you have a big cage for him? Huge.

Yeah. Mansion size. Really? Yeah. It was like... Eddie was living large. I could have lived in the cage. Did you get cats when you came in L.A.?

Well, I had cats in New York. I had the minute I moved out. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't wait to have kitties. When you moved to the city on your own, was it in Manhattan? Was it? Oh, God, I lived everywhere. I lived, I first lived in Brooklyn. No, excuse me.

First I lived in Manhattan because I went to school. I went to the School of Visual Arts. Oh, cool. So I lived on 24th in Lexington. which is now a fancy hotel, which is the weirdest thing. Yeah. We could do a whole podcast on that place because it is the weirdest experience I just went there last month and I was like, I don't understand what's happening.

It was like a young little artist school. It's like a super trendy hotel that was a dorm. Anyway, I don't want to go down the tangent because I really could lose track of what I'm talking about. But yeah, I lived there for four years. It was amazing. Yeah. I loved living. The whole experience was amazing. But I prefer living in Brooklyn because I like to, I feel more of a community sense in Brooklyn.

Yeah. And I also like to see the city. Oh, yeah, from, yeah, from outside. Yeah. Yeah. There's something visually very stimulating when you're just outside of Manhattan and you wake up and you can see it every day, even if it's just the tip-tops of the buildings. It's like, it's the coolest place in the world. The coolest. Yeah. I know. My niece has a place in Jersey City. And I went to drop her off. And in my head, I was like, why isn't she in the city? Why isn't she in the city? And literally, like just a little starter apartment building, you know, this view is just bonkers. Yeah, it's like breathtaking. It's just all of downtown Manhattan, Hudson Yards and all of it. It's just a jewel box. It's so beautiful. Yeah. I can't understand how people don't find that to be the most beautiful city. city in the world. You know when you're driving over like the, when you're on the BQE and you're driving over the bridge and there's perfectly placed the grave, the enormous graveyard, I don't even know what the name of it is. Yeah, gigantic. The graveyard and then the whole skyline behind it. So it's like two skylines. Yeah. It's like a skyline of tombstones and musuliums and then the New York City skyline. And to me that was always the most beautiful thing. I never could get sick of

of that view. It's just like makes me so happy. Yeah, there's depth to it. Yeah. There's real depth to it. All of it. I think we might be convincing ourselves that we're moving. I think this is going to end up. I'm going to have a long conversation with my wife and you're going to, you're going to have to tell your boyfriend. I can't do it. My wife, literally, if I said we were going back, she would just walk out and get in the car. Me too. Yeah. She just like there's no part of her that would say, no, but. Yeah. I'm the one kind of hanging on. I'm in the same boat, exactly. Yeah.

There's no way. He didn't want to be there in the first place. Right. He's not from there. Yeah. And he didn't want to stay there. So it was like he couldn't wait to get out. So when you're knocking around New York as a single person, a person out of school and stuff,

what were your favorite places to eat? Did you have favorites or were you too poor? Yeah, no. I definitely had favorites. A lot of them were the old vegan places, though, like Angelica's Kitchen was my absolute favorite. Which, funny enough, is right next to a place called Johns, which is an Italian restaurant. And Angelica's used to spill out, people would be waiting hours to get a seat.

And this very intelligent man who owned the restaurant next door called John's, John's on 12th, I think it was called, made a whole other menu that was vegan. And they're still open. Really? Yeah. And so it's half regular, half vegan. and very smart move. Smart move.

Yeah. Very cool. He was the first vegan canoli I ever tasted. Really? Really? Yeah. Oh, man. I don't know.

Do you have cannolis there? We do them special. You do them special. We don't have them every day because they take like three days to make. I made them with Termini Brothers of Bakery in Philadelphia. I spent the day with them making canoles and like big vats of oil and all this stuff. And they're really, really great bakery. And that process was insane.

But the thing that really lingers with me is the shell. Out here, the shells for canoles are like wonton for some reason. It's hard to make them. It's hard to, yeah, it's not easy. It's, yeah. I mean, that's one thing that I feel like every year I find a way to improve on it a little bit. Because it's never exactly the way that I, It's one of the things that I'm not 100% satisfied with.

Right. So I'm always trying to figure out how to make it. Yeah. Because of the shell, it's like it's just hard to, you have to have a sheeter, first of all, in order to get it that thin. So we're not a bakery, so pasta machine. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Wrong tool. Yeah. But I mean, it's still sheets things. Yeah, you can still do it. But it takes a really long time to make them. And so we only do them for special occasions or special orders. Yeah.

That's labor intensive. Sherry is great a vegan baker. Is she? She's never baked for me. Oh, really? No, I'm going to have to, you know. Yeah. How do you know them?

We had a mutual friend who was an actress in one of Rob's movies, House of Thousand Corpses. And that mutual friend, we ended up crossing paths, and he's a big comedy fan. I was a big Rob Zombie fan. We ended up at their wedding, a destination wedding. I always say this. I don't know if Rob's heard it. Maybe he'll listen to this one and he'll hear it.

I feel like that's when we fell in love. Because, you know, when you go to those destination weddings and you don't really know anybody. Yeah. So you need like an ally, you know, to shit on the wedding and all the rest of it. We hung out that whole weekend. And I had rented, for some reason, I had rented the car.

And it was like this big ostentation. just Cadillac, like this really big, like mafia car. Yeah. We were like driving around in that. Oh my God. I can picture it so clearly. And having a blast. And so then we started working together and he did my stand-up specials and we did.

Oh, that's so cool. I really didn't know that. I did not know that connection. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was very cool. I always say that Rob's a lot nerdier than you think and I'm a lot cooler than you think. Yeah, I imagine him to be pretty smart. He seems like a really smart, if you want to call that nerdy kind of person.

But he just is the coolest looking person. Totally. So he can get away with pretty much anything. And yeah, and super creative. And both of them. And both of them just has a couple. And Sherry Moon is like, I can't. First of all, she doesn't age.

No. A single day since the very first. Yeah, like I don't understand what's going on with her. I know. Yeah. And she's like, I eat like this. That's what she's so awesome. Everything about her is so awesome.

I know. Yeah. They're really a power couple. Yeah. Really good people. Do you know, because you mentioned that you're on serious. Do you know Howard and Beth? No. Well, no. This is, well, I don't know why you brought this up. Uh-oh. I love Howard, of course. Should I go to the table now? No, it's fine. Maybe Howard will listen to this. Yeah, Howard. I, of course, grew up on Howard. My mother listened to Howard when he was on NBC and York. I remember that? Like, like, AM radio, like with IMS, like during that, my mother, very beginning of Howard. Right. And I was a kid. What a cool mom. Cool mom. And, and listening to Howard on the way to school, I was a kid. It was just great. And so I've always adored him, of course. And then I get into this business and now I want to be on his show someday.

That would be great. And we, for Rob's birthday. Let's ambush him. Yeah, let's ambush him. Yeah, you work, Beth, because I think I'm out of the loop now. So I got invited to a birthday party at a restaurant in New York, and it was Rob's birthday dinner. They share a birthday. Howard and Rob. Howard and Rob. I didn't know that. Maybe this is where I blew it. Because there's only like six of us. There's like nobody there. And I'm like, oh, finally, I'm going to be friends with Howard and I'm going to finally get on the show. This is really nice. I don't know what I did.

I thought it went well. I thought we were having a good time. I did blurt out. Lasagne sur-gillet, puissance-moleaned for 15 minutes. We're like it's their dojo. Pre-to-joo? Vive the pleasure with the Ojo.

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I was playing a cool the whole time and I did blurt out how meaningful how meaningful the, when Sam Kinnison died,

the comedian Sam Kinnison when he died, And it was like, they were doing, you know, he was a huge friend of Howard's in the show. And they, like, were live reporting, like, that it had gone down and all that stuff. And I let, I said to Howard, it was so, I just have to say, and then the fan came out. Yeah. I was just kind of hanging his Rob's friend.

And now the fan came out of, like, it was really great. And he kind of gave me the, yeah, okay. You know, like the, he didn't want to talk about it. I mean, I thought it was cool. And that's, like, a deep cut, too. That wasn't like, I don't know. That wasn't like, I really love Fartman. Yeah.

He loves that people love him. I know. I don't know that that would be a turn off. Yeah. But you know what I mean? He loves nothing more than knowing that people love him. But there's a weird thing. Like I don't have a lot of pictures of me with famous people because you hang with somebody

and you don't want to bother them and you want to just think, you want them to feel like you're just a guy and they're just a guy. And the minute you go, how about a picture? Yeah. Then you're back to one of the fans. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't ask for a picture.

I just blurted out a little fan. It's a good thing you didn't ask him for a photo because then he would definitely have written you off. Yeah. Well, I should have asked for a photo because he wrote me off anyway. I could have had some proof. And, you know, he's a lot of comedians on. I don't know. I blame Gary.

Everybody does. Yeah. Yeah, that's how that systems works. Yeah, that's why the system works. No, and I always love it. And look, by the time I got a little more well-known, he's now like, you know, it's rare to have, like, people who aren't super famous on the program.

He has some on there. But, yeah, so it didn't work out. I know, unless you're, like, Jill from Pennsylvania and you just get lucky with a call in. Yeah. You can't. Yeah. You can't.

So you're friends with them? Friends with him. He's like my uncle. He is? No, I've never met Howard Stern. Well, I figured Beth was all. I just feel like he's my uncle. He's all of our uncle.

I figure with Beth and the animals, maybe there'd be something. No, I had an email communication with Beth once because I desperately wanted to adopt to, she had these two beautiful, oh, precious little black kittens. They were siblings. Oh, yeah. And I wanted them so badly. but she was like, you're in L.A. and I'm in New York. And I was like, I will fly there. And she was like, it's just not necessary. There's lots of catch. She rejected me. So we've both been rejected. Yes.

Jeez, Louise. They're a tough couple. But I have a whole page in my book dedicated to Howard and Robin because I find them to be inspirations to me. I know that sounds very strange to a lot of people, especially maybe women, but we all find inspiration. different ways and I just think that you know I mean Howard was like the most unlikely person to be who he has become and like I said earlier that like tell me I can't do something and then watch me do it it's like that he has that same type of attitude like he wasn't meant to be who he is right now right just made sure he became that person yeah yeah and I find that very inspiring and I was friends with Robin for a brief moment in time. We were even going to go skydiving together. Wow.

But we lost touch once I moved to L.A. And now I have no idea how to get a hold of her. Yeah. I wish I could so that I can send them a book, though. When you say, send it to Gary. Yeah. He'll just throw it away. But we know he'll fuck that up.

Yeah, right, exactly. He'll just throw it in a stack. Sorry, Gary. That was just unnecessary. Sorry, Gary. Get us on the show. And whenever I see Gary, he knows me from the comedy world. We have great conversations in the lounge at an airport or whatever.

Not meant to be. But what do you mean when you say, do you mean how he evolved as a person, Howard, or just what he did with his career? Just what he did with his career. I mean, the fact that he's evolved through psychotherapy and all that is also very inspiring, but I don't even mean it on that deep of a level. I just mean like he pushed through boundaries that, you know, are seemingly impossible to push through. And, you know, and same with Robin. I mean, she was, you know, she was in the military. She was in the Air Force, you know,

and she had a totally different life. And how the two of them, because I don't know that they could have done it without each other. I think that they're the perfect partnership. That balance is perfect. How they manage to push through every boundary that's been put in front of them, which has been pretty much every boundary that can be put in front of you, including cancer, by the way. Yeah. You know, how they can continue on and continue to make all of us laugh even in like the worst moments. It's an inspiration.

It is. Yeah. They're really fantastic. So when do you get the idea that you're good enough to open a restaurant? Oh, I don't know if I ever had that idea. I still don't know if I am good enough. I did it anyway. Well, all right.

No, I mean, so, okay. So where's the idea? My grandparents owned a sandwich shop in Brooklyn. And it was so wildly popular at the time back way when that they had to hire security. Like it was just this amazing, you know, place that boomed out in Crown Heights area of Brooklyn. and he was my biggest inspiration, my grandpa. And I wanted to be just like him. And so because of that, my father said to me more times

than he said anything else in his life, whatever you do, you could do anything. Whatever you do, don't ever open a restaurant. That was his only advice. That was like his main thing. I want you to have a life. I want you to be able to travel. I want you to enjoy your life.

And if you do your life like grandpa did his life, you're not going to have any of those things because you're just going to be married to an institution and you're never going to be able to leave. Yeah. And there's truth in that. Sure. But there's also like the ultimate joy that you can't ever possibly explain to somebody by having that. Yeah. You kind of don't need all that other stuff because you're experiencing it at your place.

Yeah. I mean, I make time for friends and family, the ones that are important. Yeah. You know, now we've been up in seven years. I make time for travel again. Yeah. I did get quite a bit of traveling and before I decided to open just in case. Yeah.

But yeah, he was just like, please do whatever else you want to do and you'll do it successfully. Just don't do that thing. So I went to art school. I had a career as a photographer. And I just hated it. Yeah. I really did. I mean, I don't hate art.

I love art. I hate the idea that I have to use a camera or art in a way I don't want. to use it in order to make a living. Right. And that kind of defeats the purpose of being an artist, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So I was never really feeling fulfilled in that way.

And so although I was doing it, I was also like, you know, going to people's homes and teaching them how to cook. Mainly people who were sick because those were the people who had an open mind to listen to eliminating meat and dairy from their diet and these types of things. So it was a lot of like people who had cancer or people who had like serious illnesses. and I would go and show them how to make food. Basic things, nothing crazy. Yeah.

But I loved that so much. Right. You know? Yeah. And then I realized, like, what am I doing? I'm just going to go work in a restaurant and see what happens. And so I did. And that was the end of everything.

Where was that? It was at a place called Pure Food and Wine, which was a very famous place in New York, and is very late in my life. There's actually a documentary about that restaurant because it's no longer open. Oh, that one, oh, with all the controversy. The bad vegan. It's a bad documentary is what it is. Is it?

I think it's unfair, but I wasn't there for any of that. I had come and gone already by that point. I was there for five years. I had the best experience of my life. Most amazing job I've ever had outside of my own business. Yeah. I had the most fun. I made the most friends that are my best friends to this day.

I learned everything. I mean, when I tell you, like, it was better than, 20 years of culinary school. Right. It was just like the best experience. Remind me why that went south? The owner. Was there a murder? No, that would have been more interesting.

Yeah, but there was some. No, it was a, it was a money. It was a scandal. It was a manipulation of sorts that just got totally out of control and very unfortunate. Unfortunately because it was like a high-end vegan spot. Yeah, it was a beautiful place. Yeah.

A really beautiful place. it shouldn't have happened that way. Yeah, that's too bad. And people who worked there, who had been working there since the day the doors opened, yeah. Families, inside families, literally working that place. So like the whole family lost their job. You know, it was just a, yeah, it was just a crappy thing to have happened. But anyway, I wasn't there for any of that. Yeah. I had already moved to L.A. Yeah. Yeah. So that was the first like professional kitchen job that I ever had. And you loved it? You felt like this is my home. I loved. every minute of it.

Yeah. I loved everything about it, especially the frustrating, difficult things. Isn't it funny that if you really love something like those, the things that you're, all the reasons like your father said, don't do it? Yeah. Don't mean anything because you love it so much.

Yeah, they just get lost because all the love is so powerful that it's just, it's passion in a way that like, those other things don't give you. Yeah. You know? Yeah. For whatever reason you connect. Just the culture of a restaurant too.

It's like, yeah, it was fun to go to people's houses and teach them how to make food because I felt like I was doing something that was like positive and important. Yeah, yeah. But working in a restaurant with the other people who are working in the restaurant, it's like a whole thing. Yeah. That's just, I mean, you're either built for it or you're not. No, exactly. It's not for everybody. No, exactly.

I mean, the very, very first day of work at that restaurant, the way it was designed, you walked into the kitchen and you had to go downstairs to get changed. into your uniform and come back up. So you had to walk through the kitchen in your regular clothes. Yeah. I walked in first day, I don't know, a single person, not one person except the chef, because he hired me. That's it though. And it was Pedro's birthday.

Who the hell is Pedro? I have no idea. But I had to do eight shots of tequila before I got to the steps to put my outfit on. For Pedro. I love Pedro. Yeah. And that was just like the introduction. It was like, you know.

My people. Yeah. I was like, oh, this is where the party is. This is where everybody is like just coming together. It doesn't matter what language you speak, where you're from. You know, what your social, economic level. None of it matters when you're in that kitchen. Yeah.

All bets are off. And that's awesome. I worked in restaurants only in the, not in the kitchen, just in the serving busboy. element of things. And yeah, just being in that environment is just fun. It's just fun. After hours. It's the best. Yeah. It's like you're closing up at four and people are still drinking and having a good time. Yeah. It really is a super fun culture. Yeah, especially like in New York where it was during a time where people were like really out. Yeah. And, you know, really trying to like enjoy their lives. We were like just a couple blocks outside of you.

Union Square, so it was like the heart of the city and it was so great. So cool. So when do you open your spot? When is Borobita? We just celebrated seven years just on Sunday. Yeah, so it was two years before the pandemic. I'm dating this podcast if I say that. No, you're good. Two years, two years before the pandemic. Yeah, 2000 18. Oof. Yeah. So you open and people dig it and then you got to close it down. We never closed. You never closed. We closed to the inside. We weren't allowed to have people come inside, which in my mind meant we were going to close. Yeah. This amazing thing happened where people showed up, ordered their pasta at the door that

we weren't allowed to let you inside of, and sat right on the sidewalk to eat it. Really? And they never stopped showing up. Wow. And I don't know what I ever did in my life to deserve that, but that was the most beautiful thing that I've ever witnessed. And it was just like a steady flow of that? They kept us open.

Amazing. Yeah. It was amazing. You must have, yeah. Because I thought for sure, I was like, I mean, I always say failure is not an option, but sometimes life just throws things out of your control. Yeah. And you have to pivot and we pivoted a hundred different times, but it was just incredible to survive that.

That's fantastic. And then the city did allow us to build a patio outside, like right on Santa Monica Boulevard. Right. We had for two years, which, you know, definitely saved the business. Yeah. And then they ripped it down. Oh, they did? Yes.

Yeah. Why? I know. I know. New York's going to do that same thing. Rood. Yeah. I'm just backing it out. It's an amazing, amazing thing.

I mean, the thing that you built is kind of like our set. A very warm Italian, like, home kind of thing. I mean, you didn't know going into it, but that those people would show up and be there is, like, a testament to what you built. Right? I mean, it's that, it comes from that familial love business. based food based thing. The food is great. Yeah.

But it can't just be that. No. That's not enough. Mm-mm. You have to have a feeling and you have to, you have to have a culture and you have to have a certain thing happening. So like when I designed the restaurant, because we did everything ourselves, I wanted it to feel and look like New York because my idea was I wanted to have that New York energy.

Yeah. Which to me means people talk to each other. Yeah. It's not so cold. where like you're sitting next to somebody and you're like trying to pretend like they're not rubbing against your arm like a strange subway rider

like you're like here taste my pizza here have a like that's what happens at the bar people start sharing things it's wild I can't believe this kind of stuff happens in LA I have to be honest it's amazing but it's really cool and so many people guests like so many guests

now know the other guests and you know it's a whole it's a whole thing And it's like the reason why we're still there. Yeah. Amazing. But I mean, it wouldn't, the story you're telling with those roots, it's like if you were to just come in and try and mimic that, it's not going to work. Like it's in you, right? Yeah, I guess that's true. You have to have experienced it already to create it, I guess. Yeah, yeah. I don't know how I created it though. It's just, I talk to everybody.

So I guess it starts there. Yeah. I'm walking around talking to everybody all the time. Yeah, exactly. And thank God I have amazing chefs in the kitchen because although I'm the chef and I create all the dishes, I train them how to do it. Right. Because I spend most of my time talking to guests. Yeah, yeah. Because that's so important. It's so important. It makes you feel like, oh, they like and there's so many amazing people who come in all the time. And it's like, I don't want to miss that. Yeah. No, exactly. That's the fun. For people that are going to purchase the book, and bring it home and start cooking.

Yes, please. What's your advice if you're somebody that doesn't cook a lot? Well, there's some very simple recipes in there, and there's some more complicated ones. So I would definitely say to stick to the simple ones first. What's the most challenging one? There's a section in there called The Basic, so a good place to start, because it's really simple stuff.

How do you make beans? How do you make cheese? You know, these types of things. And believe it or not, the cheese is simple. It becomes more complicated when you're getting into like the meatballs, the popatine. A lot of ingredients, a lot of steps. Right, right. You know, it becomes a little bit more involved.

Yeah, yeah. Still not super complicated, but it's always good if you're not like a person who cooks all the time to just start on the smaller side, you know, and work your way up. So good. And making fresh pasta, I mean, I explain it in there. Yeah. People are under the impression that you have to have eggs in fresh pasta and it's just not true. Right.

You don't need. I always say, like, you know, people have a thing with gluten. Yeah. I love gluten. Yeah. I love it very much. Good. You're going to enjoy this.

I'm staring at me as you speak and I can't wait. I want to shed a tear right now. But gluten is glue. Right. That's the thing that holds everything together. Right. So when you're making pasta, it already has gluten, as long as you're not making gluten-free pasta. Yeah.

You don't need eggs. Because it's going to stick together all by itself. Right. There you go. And so when you just think about things in that way and you take the complication out of it, like how do you replace this? How do you replace that? So you don't have to replace it.

Right, right. Just don't include it. Just don't add it. And keep going. Yeah. That's beautiful. Before we go, we do a thing on this program called an uncomfortable moment. Uh-oh.

No, and I think... I love those. I've been going back and forth with it. And at first I thought, you know, maybe, well, it might be uncomfortable, but I think in the end you're going to find it kind of joyful. Okay. Maybe. You know, we're not a real restaurant. Those are fake grapes.

The bread is real. The cigarettes are real? I ate three of those grapes. But I hid something before you came here because I didn't want to offend you. Okay. But I'm going to reveal it now, just so we're being upfront and honest with each other. This is a provolone, but it's fake. It's usually out on the set.

And so I feel like you would think you don't need problone, but it's fake pro balone. Okay. And the same thing with the pursuit. Not real, but it just grew up with it. Oh my God, because you usually have it over there. I saw it. I saw it.

I'm glad we copped to it. Yes. I want to be honest with you. The one with Jason Alexander and I was like, I had even sent around. I'm like, there's a preshute behind his head. Well, now you know. I thought maybe this was going to be the uncomfortable moment for a different reason.

Yeah. It didn't go there. No. So, you know, it's fake. So that's good. That's good because the smell would have been a little overbearing. Yeah, right. Exactly.

You wouldn't know right away. Oh, man. Well, this was really fun. This is awesome. I can hang out with you all day. Yeah, likewise. Likewise. And we got to come back to the restaurant.

Yeah. Yeah. And we don't need Robin Cherry to take us. We can just come by ourselves. Please come. Please come anytime. That would be wonderful. Yeah, that'll be cool.

I will not forget next time, I promise. All right, good. We'll be like, Rob, who? My focus was so one direction. I apologize. No, no, no. They had been gone for months. And it was like first time back in the restaurant.

I hadn't seen them in years, honestly. The last time I saw them, I had catered one of his birthday parties. Right. And then they just like never came back. I actually thought to myself like, geez, I wonder if they didn't like the food or something. No, they didn't like L.A.

Yeah. That's a better answer, though. Yeah, I think they just decide. Yeah, exactly. I'll take that. You can take down the whole city, but not my meatballs. Oh, this is fun. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. What an honor. Yeah. And good luck with the book. Thank you. I think it's going to be very successful. Yes, everybody buy a copy. Yeah.

Or two. All right, we got it, kids. We'll say, in the phone, all the world can be a guy of the finance. Not be a great monger in or to be a golf, or to be a pro of the crypto.

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