Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 293 - Patton Oswalt

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

This week Patton Oswald joins us at the table! He and Tom chat industry expectations, comedy in the social media age, and of course, Tom puts Patton's encyclopedic film knowledge to the test. Enjoy! Check out Black Coffee and Ice Water, out November 20, only on Audible! Don’t get them socks. Get them premium wireless for $15/mo. Shop Mint Unlimited Plans at mintmobile.com/breakingbread Check out https://www.squarespace.com/PAPA to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code PAPA Eat smart at FactorMeals.com/papa50off, and use code papa50off to get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year. Get delicious, ready-to-eat meals delivered—with Factor. (Offer only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchase.) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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He's just going through, let me explain to you what Norman Bates' psychological condition is, believing that he's his mom and the psychological. He goes on for 12 minutes giving this explanation where today, even a high school kid would be like, oh no, yeah, his mom's, yeah, he's psychotic. He had to break. We know so much more now. But again, back then, that was considered so shocking and so unsettling. that they had to have the voice of authority. This is a rare condition where Norman is both Norma and Norman and normal.

And it's like watching a film strip. It is so like, what the fuck? And then luckily Hitchcock knew how clanky it would be and then they cut back to when Norman is sitting there with his blanket around him. And also, it's the creation of the Kubrick stare. Which is in all of Kubrick's movies, Is this, am I on camera here?

Yeah, go do it. It's breaking bread. Good to see you, buddy. It's so good to be back. Yeah, it really is. It's so good to be back. I normally don't point out my work at the beginning, but- Point it out.

This is called an ear, the way that it popped up like that. Really? And I was really very nervous on my way over here that it would stay intact because I wanted, I'm proud of it. You want to show off that you, you didn't. an ear. You have a little, you have a little Jack Lord Conan O'Brien

kind of a hairdo thing going on there. I love that. I was in Austin, Texas on Saturday performing. At the Paramount? At the Paramount? I was just there last month. It's such a good... It's the best. I love the theater so much. And

I was doing the timing for our podcast today, so I had to have my wife take out the starter from the fridge, feed it, give really the instructions to feed it, so when I got on Sunday, I would be able to feed it another time to make it for you. So you've been on my mind for several days. You know what?

That's how it should be. I want my interviewers to have been dwelling on the idea of me. I don't want this. Who's up next? Okay, I'll just swing it. I want those guys. Yeah. Wow, so you were really thinking to me.

I was. I was. Calling your wife. Yeah. And again, sorry. You always imagine like a comedian calling the white from the road. like, listen, I got arrested here, but you're like, you need to add the starter or this thing is not going to rise.

I need 50 grams of flour, 50 grams of water. Oh, my God. Congratulations on your new special. Thank you. Well, yeah. On the Audible. It's a new album. And I actually, this is, you know, I'm being kind of nostalgic, but I recorded an album.

We didn't film it. Yeah. It's just the audio. and I'm telling you something, man. And I'm really promoting this because I would love this to become the standard. I would love it too. For how they come out. I have never had better sets because, oh, that's right, I'm not being filmed.

Right. I'm so much looser. Just yourself. It's just me and the audience and them, they're miced and I miced, and it sounds. It has that great, it wasn't a giant space. Yeah. It was this. Mineta.

The Meneta Lane. Have you done the Menetalane? No, but I saw Laura Bonanti do her show there. It's such a great little space. So great. Yeah. And so it has that feel of the albums we grew up on where you hear the audience is right there. Yeah, it sounds intimate.

And it just feels amazing. Yeah, black coffee and ice water. Which, um, it's great. Thank you. Oh, yeah. I have an unsweetened espresso and an ice water. So delightful, which I'm about to hang on. Yeah, it was, uh, when I, when we got it, I was like, wait,

Is it just audio? Is it just audio? And it's Audible.com, but you never know what people are up to. But it was such a good thing to hear. Like, oh, he's just doing an album. Can we just do an album? Yes.

Audible came to me and said, hey, we want to do like just an audio album. And I was so excited the idea of, oh, I'm just putting out an album. We don't have to worry about, I mean, because I've directed two of my specials now, and I love doing it. But there is that thing of,

there is so much more on my, mind besides just this hour of material. Exactly. And when you do just an album, it's the... Oh, it's so sweet. And it took me, here's what's really weird too, because I had that weird, um,

phantom, uh, memory, muscle memory of doing a film special, like a Netflix special or, you know, a Showtime special where the first set that we recorded, I was kind of aware of the performance. And then the next three, it's when halfway through that first recording, I realized, wait, I'm not being filmed.

I don't have any makeup on. I could just do whatever. This is great. And I'm so happy with it. Think about how far comedy has come from when albums were the only way to do it. Like when I was a kid wanting to find a comedy album, I'd go into the record store, and I'd look at this giant place filled with albums, and I would have to go further and further into the back, into that one little thing.

Comedy was such an afterthought. It was just stuck in the, in like, next to the garbage bin. I feel like the comedy was better because it was an afterthought, because no one took it seriously. You could get away with so much more, but you're like, just a comedian. Why are you getting so wound up about me? Right.

Now, comedy, I feel so bad for these comedians who are, their stuff is put up in the, like, alongside news items. I know. And it's like, remember in the 80s, we all wanted comedy to be taken. They can more seriously, well, apparently we wish for that on a monkey's paw because now it's just like we're not causing international incidents, but they treat it like we are. I know. And then they're starting to treat each other that way.

Okay. This thing about, you know, comedians are the new philosophers. They're the truth tellers. If comedians are the philosophers and truth tellers, then your society is in trouble. I know. Your society is in a lot of trouble. comedians, the truth tellers and philosophers should be journalists and philosophers

not clowns. Like, no, but comedians are court gestures. It's like, do you know what the world was like when we had court gestures? Yes, they were able to say whatever they wanted because the world was so awful. The king was like, I'm just going to go have sex with your 14-year-old daughter

and send your kids off to war because I'm in a bad mood. But here comes corncob the farting dwarf. He's going to call me fat, and that's going to balance it all out. So thank God for the gestures, the truth teller. It's like, no, that's not... I know.

Having gestures is not a good thing. I know. A true comedian can not necessarily topple a king, but can change the way of people. Gestors don't topple anything. They stay the jester and the king stays the king. Don't wish to be a jester. Yeah, there's no grownups left. So comedians now have equal weight of news people.

And they shouldn't. We should not. We shouldn't. I saw someone attacking Andrew Schultz about something he was saying about, I think he was on with Charmaine the, Charmaine the God. Charlemagne the God. And people were attacking Andrew because he got something wrong. He really did get it wrong.

And about the Democrats and all this kind of stuff. And it was like, don't attack Andrew. This guy just ended up in this position. I know Andrew. Andrew's a nice guy. Andrew is a very funny comedian. He is not a great thinker. He is not a journalist. He's not spending all of his time on these facts.

I guarantee you. So don't put him in a position where he is the arbiter of all the truth. He's a funny guy who now is getting traction from talking politics. There are some comedians who I think kind of embrace and revel in the fact that, oh, I am just as important. as the news and they don't realize, wait a minute, I should be put, like, someone like Shaleming the God, as, as intelligent as he is, still tries to point people toward, no, please read these writers, please read these reporters. There are certain comedians, who I'm not going to name, who do kind of act like,

I am bringing truth to people, and that's, that's the end of your career. When you start thinking like that, it was very telling how in the early 90s when people would tell Bill Maher and John Stewart, like, you know, I get my news from you. And they would immediately go, you should not be getting your news from me. Right. I should be the thing, I should be the dessert you have after you've read and thought about the news. Yeah. And then it all just got replaced with entertainment. And that's why we are where we are right now. Well, that's a big point. They were also, they were both very, very good at parsing the news. But then people just became, I'll just watch it that way. Well, when the news, I mean, when Hannity got in trouble and he said,

No, I'm not news. I'm entertainment. That was his out for being called out on his mistakes. And he was very truthful and he said, I'm entertainment. But he doesn't treat it like entertainment. His audience doesn't treat it as entertainment. But it gives the entertainers now the same weight as these guys. So when you have a podcast, a popular podcast, people just think it's the same as a news organization. Because we're all playing the entertainment game, not a news game. It would be great if a truly entertaining high-rated podcast. either at the end or the beginning said, really happy you tuned in. Could you please read? Just go read these three articles. They're each like a four-minute read and watch this quick YouTube documentary or watch this clip from the PBS News Hour.

It's four minutes at the time. It will really explain things better. You know, like, it's why John Oliver is so amazing because he's always trying to point people toward it. I'm glad you stopped here for this entertainment. You need to go check this out. Right, exactly. Please go check this out.

So maybe there will be a, maybe just in legal terms, these podcasts are supposed to start going, look, you need to start reading these other things because I don't want to be held responsible for this stuff. I don't want people going, you got this guy elected. No, I just had them on my show. It's such a funny. I feel like doing a public service announcement. Like, as a comedian, let me tell you, as a comedian, I want to say this to the camera, as a comedian, you should know that comedians don't like dead air.

and they want to go to the next subject and get a laugh and they're going to spew stuff out. They're not news people. Just know that we are desperate laugh creatures. That sounds like such a weird, like John Waters' script that he never got the funding for. It's called Desperate Laf Creatures. I couldn't get people.

People like creep people out. They couldn't deal with it. Yeah, I mean, if you watch a real, a real journey, you'll notice how much they don't talk. They will ask a question, and then they'll sit there like a good homicide detective and let the person keep going. If you keep trying to jump in and get that little clippable moment,

you will stop people from saying what they need to say. Let them talk. Let them wind out. Last night, I watched Psycho, Great Alfred Hitchcock, breakthrough 1960 film. And I watched it because I realized, I think I've watched it more times than I really have. But it's so iconic.

Everybody knows the scene in the shower. We all know the scene. They don't know the whole movie. And then you watch the beginning of it. And it's just so intriguing. She's like stealing money. And she's off on this from Phoenix to California. And there's so much depth to it.

And it's so good to watch. And I only bring it up now because there is a detective who's looking for her after she's been killed. Arbagast. Martin Balsam. And he's doing exactly. exactly what you say when he was with Norman Bates. And he's asking questions, and then he just shuts up.

And Norman just starts, he starts giving up too much information. Well, did I say she wasn't here? No, well, there was a woman who was here. Well, I had dinner with her, and he's just looking at him. Just like you're saying, like a good reporter, just, no, go ahead. Be confused along with, oh, that's weird. Also, a true homicide detective or interrogator is, they'll never say, out loud, but I'll never ask you a question

I don't already know the answer to. Right. I'm seeing if you're going to trip up. Yeah. That's why I'm doing this. Right. It's so weird when you watch Psycho because like you said, the whole beginning is it's this woman. She's in a weird situation with a married man and she wants, and she steals this money and oh my God, the police are after me.

Yeah. And what you realize is when that movie came out, because Janet Lay was a huge star, Tony Perkins was not anybody yet. Yeah. I mean, and he's presented as just this weird little, hey, okay. Yeah. The weird guy at the hotel. Right. And you think you're going to follow her story.

Right. And audiences, apparently, when she's murdered, yeah. They were screaming, not at the violence of it, but at, you don't have the big A-less star, and I'm only 20 minutes into the movie and she's being stabbed to death? Wait, wait, what is? And there were people even like, it wasn't until they cut to that shot of her face. her lifeless face on the ground.

That's when they started screaming because they realized, this doesn't make any sense. Why is she dead? Why is she dead? And then, even worse, they put you in the shoes of Norman Bates where you're almost rooting for him.

There's that really manipulative scene, but it's brilliant. Remember he sinks her car in the water. Yeah. And it goes in, but then it stops for a second. It's like it's not going to sink. And they cut to him like, and you are going,

sink, come on, pretty soon. sink and then you're like, I'm rooting for this murder to win. What the fuck is that? Like it's such, it was apparently it was, and it started the whole thing of once the movie starts, we're not letting people in. Because I also didn't realize back then, you know the line, the famous like, oh, this is where I came in. Right.

Back then you just bought, there was no, like they just showed the movie all day and you just walked in whenever it was on. Yeah. And then you, you started watching, let's say you walked in 20 minutes late. Yeah. Start watching that point, and then you watch the next 20, opening 20 minutes of the next showing, and then you leave. Oh, that's right. And then you leave.

And that was just common practice. And Hitchcock was like, got to show up at the beginning. Yeah. And we're not letting anyone else. Which was a theater owners, we're like, what do you? Are business people just walking up? It's like, nope. Announce the times.

And if they show up a minute late, they're not getting in. Oh. And it changed everything. It changed everything. It changed everything. At the end of the movie, he's giving this, this new detective who just comes in at the end. The psychiatrist. The psychiatrist.

He's just going through, let me explain to you what Norman Bates' psychological condition is, believing that he's his mom and the psychological. There's three types. He goes on for 12 minutes giving this explanation where today, even a high school kid would be like, oh no, yeah, he's his mom's, yeah, he's psychotic. He imprints it and he's great. We know so much more now. But again, back then, that was considered so shocking and so unsettling.

that they had to have the voice of authority. This is a rare condition where Norman is both Norma and Norman and normal. And it's like watching a film strip. It is so like what the fuck. And then luckily Hitchcock knew how clanky it would be and then they cut back to when Norman is sitting there with his blanket around him.

And also it's the creation of the Kubrick stare. Which is in all of Kubrick's movies, which is the guy, is this, am I on camera here? Just go do it. A guy looking like this. And if you watch all of, if you watch all of Stanley Crews, there's always a scene of one character going like this,

looking at you, and then you're pulling it. And it pulls in on them. I know that cubic, oh my God. Yeah, and Clockwork Orange, in the Shining. Well, the opening shot of Clockwork Orange is Malcolm McDowell sitting at the milk bar doing this. Yeah. And then, of course, Nicholson doing this.

And there's always that like. Oh, it's so. intense. But that one in 1960 with Hitchcock, that last scene of him just sitting there talking to himself in his blanket, it seems like it's a scene from the future.

Like in 1960, no one has seen that. No one has had that kind of intimacy. No. And you're like, yes, yes, the killer has been brought to justice, but now he is fused and safe in his own body. Yeah. So did he get it?

Like, did Norma Bates get with it because now she's safe inside Norman's body. She's not gonna. You know what I mean? It's just very, very, that must have, again, thinking of a 1960s mentality, people must have left that film really, really shaken. Really shaking.

Because we watched it from beginning to end last night and then took the dogs for a walk in the dark. And I was different than before I watched it. And I'd seen it a bunch, but I was like, I'm walking around and it was like night and we're coming up this dark part of the sidewalk. and I got the hebi-jeebies. You should watch, if you want to have a really interesting movie night,

watch a Fritz-slang film that came out two years before Psycho called While the City Sleeps. Oh, yeah? Which is about a psychopath who was tormented by his mother. There is a bathtub murder scene in it, and the opening music, you're like, oh, that's where Bernard Herman got the psycho theme. It is very, like, it's like a rough draft for what Hitchcock did with Psycho. Oh, really?

Yeah, because Hitchcock was like, these people are cranking out these little quick and dirty, you know, slasher movies. They're making a ton of money. Right. Well, I'm a good director. What if I did that? He got his TV crew, financed it himself, quick and dirty, and it made it, like, it set him for life. Because he was like, well, you got to forewall this.

He goes, okay. So he basically did the same thing that Mel Gibson did with Passion of the Christ, where he's like, well, I'm keeping all the money. Right. And so he was, he was set, man. Oh, my God. Oh. I've been really, I have a new iPad, and when I'm on the road, I open it up, and it literally, because of the way it opens, it goes right to DirecTV, Turner Classic movies.

So whatever is on Turner Classic is there. And you're there, and you can maybe get pulled in. Oh, it's so good. Well, watch while the city sleeps, especially because you've just watched Psycho. Yeah. Did you watch it with your wife? Yeah. All right.

Go watch that tonight. You guys will be going, how? Oh, my God. This is like, his couple's like, I'm gonna do this better. And by the way, Fritz Lang is a great director,

but he's like, I can riff this a little better. I have a cool one. I don't know her name, but I can look it up while we do it. Yeah, yeah. I watched the birds the other night. Tippy Hendren.

Tipy Hendren, the little girl. Is Veronica Cartwright? Okay, you're the best. Why do I need Google and I have Pat? Great screamer. She's this little girl, and she's completely distraught and like freaked out and whatever.

And I didn't realize the rest of her career is her as a grown woman freaking out and crying. She's leaking out. Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Alien, witches of Eastwick. She's always coming apart at the scenes. You're the best. How did you know that right off the top of your head?

Because Veronica Cartwright fucking rules. She was so good. She was so fucking good. And she started as like a 12 year old girl in the birds. Yeah. Yeah. She's awesome. Again, much like Psycho at the Birds

and the end of the birds, nothing's right. World hasn't been saved. If anything, it looks like the world has now ended. And they walk out and the birds are like, oh, no, we're letting you go. But we've got, like, it is so unnerving that movie. When I was a little kid, that movie freaked me out. Oh, yeah, big time. Yeah.

Big time. Those shots are just, the way he shot everything was just otherworldly. But it's also when you know how he treated Tippy Hendron on that movie and the torture he put her through, like, that scene in the ad. Yeah. She is, she is for real, like, being. Distraught. being just ripped a shreds. He just abused her.

He was a fucked up individual. Nevertheless, look, if we, if we didn't work with people because they were fucked up, we wouldn't work with anyone in this industry. So I don't know, you know, you got to take the good with the bad. I mean, Mel Gibson is stark raving mad, but is also, unfortunately, one of our best living directors. I don't know what to tell me. We've got to deal with both. Like, he's out of his fucking mind.

But, like, they just did this thing for the news. New York Times, pick your top 10 films of the 21st century. One of mine was Apocalyptico. I was like, this is an amazing meditation on religion and civilization destroying another civilization and all this stuff. It's just amazing. Oh, God, it was great. And I almost wanted to say like on my list. I wanted to put it out.

I know. I know. Before you say anything, I know. He happened to make a fucking great movie. Well, Chinatown was a great movie. Yep. Sorry guys. The best adaptation of Shakespeare ever is Polanski's Macbeth.

Yeah. And he's basically, when you watch his interpretation, his version, he's working out all his anxiety about his wife being killed by the Manson family in that movie. Oh. When they go kill Duncan's family, it's like, oh, these are them. My God, he's basically doing the Manson brothers. Oh, my God. Oh, dear God, this is fucked up.

Wow. And it's the best. What a crazy artist. best version of Shakespeare I've ever seen on screen. Let me see if I can stump you. Go ahead. Do you know of a early Jimmy Stewart movie where he is a reporter uncovering a murder?

Call Northside 777. Damn it. Damn it. I literally have been running around telling people about this. I'm like, you've never heard this. Oh, it's so good. This is such an amazing, I can't believe that nobody knows this film. So fucking good.

And that scene at the end, which they kind of did another version of the end of the searchers where the family is celebrating and they pan over to Jimmy and he's just kind of by himself like can't really, because he's still this cynical reporter. And at the end of the day, this was just another story for him. Yeah. Like this whole human drama happened and he's can't quite join in. And you're like, oh, fuck. Like eventually that kind of stuff's going to eat that character alive.

Yeah. We're seeing me in a moment of triumph now. but part of me was like, oh, it would have been amazing for like Abel Farrar or Martin Scorsese to do that reporter now in New York in the 70s. Yeah. He's totally burned out, like maybe dealing with the Zodiac or his son of Sam and he's losing his mind. Yeah. It's a weird, again, a very weirdly dark film for the 1950s.

You don't expect that kind of dark ending. No, exactly. And that's what's so great about the film. And it almost made me think, you know, when you look back of like at an era, you know, all of the big ones. Like, you know the big headlining, you know, gone with the wind or whatever. But there's a whole bunch of undercurrent

like alt underground stuff. Go find those films. Because all those secondary characters in that film, who plays the mother, the woman who plays the mother, and they're so good and so moving. It's a character

actor's smorgasbord and now I'm blanking on who they all are, but it's like the true film buffs to like every character actor you love. Yeah, the editor. Those people they can bring in and they just nail one scene and it's just, yeah. There was a great combination when you watch old movies of, yes, there are these weird off to the side.

Even in the 40s, there were independent movies being made. Yeah, exactly. Even in the 50s, like Ida Lupino was making these weird little independent movies. Yeah. But then what I love more are the people that worked at the studios and managed to smuggle stuff through. The studio didn't realize what they were doing. Right.

You know, if you, there's a lot, if you watch a movie like The Searchers or a Western like, the tall tea, where you're like Randolph Scott. Yeah. Which people, I'm sure, saw at the time and went, oh, what a wonderful story about a cowboy facing off with a bandit. But you watch it now. Yeah. And you're like, this is a gay romance. Did no one notice what was going on? Oh, that's right.

No, they didn't. They didn't have the language to see what was going on. It's Randolph Scott and Richard Boone are basically. Subversive. Kind of romancing. each other and at the end they realized we can't be openly gay. Right. One of us has to kill each other.

Brokeback Mountain 40 years before it broke back mountain. But in a weird way, it's even more sexual than broke back mountain. Because it's never, you see it. And the tension is so brutal. Right. It's really weird to watch that movie. Yeah. I mean, there's so many, I looked up, last night I watched with Psycho, the Walking

Dead with Boris Karloff. I just watched that last year. That was amazing. Amazing. Yeah, yeah. And that director, Michael... Michael Curtis. Made Casablanca and all these movies.

A hundred and twenty-two films, this guy directed. Yeah, the year he made Casablanca, I think Casablanca was one of four movies in that year. Those studio guys, they would show up. And look, a lot of studio stuff was crappy, but there was something amazing about if you were in a studio contract as an actor or as a writer, as director, you had an opportunity to just make movies. You can make them all the time, and you got so competent with it. There was a reason Michael Curtis could shoot Casablanca

in a month. It wasn't that he was rushed. He's like, I've done this a million times. We'll light it from here. This will be the coverage. We do two here. We got it. Studio 10.

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moment. Oh. I'm having it on my phone instead of my iPad because I didn't bring it. It's a little uncomfortable because, well, we're talking about all the plans that you have for your comic book series and everything, but, and I don't want to, you know, it's always uncomfortable when you pitch somebody and they're not expecting to be pitched and they have to say yes or no. This is top shelf discomfort. Oh, this is great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At least you're giving me the good discomfort. Like, you're giving me the good discomfort. Like, you're giving the quality discomfort. Yeah.

Thank you. Thanks for not playing me short, man. So I think we should do a comic together. All right. And try and say no in front of all of our listeners. It's called Electric Justice. And you're really tech. I'm really bred.

And here's a cover. Here's some cover art. I don't know why I have, you have the glasses, and I don't. They kind of mix that up. I like this. I like this. It's a little more,

it's not as real and gritty as your stuff that you make. It's a little more old-timey. It is weird how, so hang on, let's see if we, do you have bread-based powers? I'm a little yeasty.

A little yeasty? You can rise. You see my wheat on my chest? I saw the wheat, but I'm just saying what would be like, you know, Peter Parker is bitten by a spider, right out spider gets the,

so if you get the powers of bread, what is that? What are the powers of bread? I can drop people in my vat of sourdough starter. Nice. And make them ferment. Oh, you can make them wizened. Mm-hmm. And then a man, you have bread-based powers,

and yet it's called electric justice. So it's just a bunch of random. Well, because it's from another time, I always love, even last night when I was watching The Walking Dead, I love when things, they love, their biggest mind-blowing thing that they have is electricity. Oh, yeah. And it's just like,

dizz, dizz, yeah, like that's just freaking everybody out. And also, yeah, you can tell that it was still a relatively new invention on the scene, so they didn't quite know what electricity could do and couldn't. Right. So, like, yeah, of course it brings people back to life. Right, you can raise the dead.

Electrics, we don't know what it does. Yeah. Yeah, so. So we're dealing with electricity. So we are, I do love the idea of it's set in a time where the fact that we have access to electricity is what gives us the leg up on criminals. And we can fly. I made it that we could fly. And we can also fly.

No explanation. No. Because bread doesn't fly. And I don't even know what my powers are. Listen, you're getting a lot of backstory stuff that I didn't think about. Am I getting? Well, obviously. You thought this would be like you would walk in electric justice.

Stop drilling you hit oil. We're doing it right now. We're doing it. You ever hear buying it in the room? The title. Listen, there are plenty of things that literally sold when they just, the very famous one is Gary Marshall came in. Yeah. And he just went, Schwarzenegger, DeVito, Twins.

And they went, sold. Like that's literally, that was the pitch. Amazing. Yeah. And he sold the movie. Do you feel that? I don't feel. Do you feel like, are we seeing, are we a part of, is it, how?

Are we captured in a moment where running around town and pitching things and making things is kind of going away? Pitching things is going away. I think what is coming back is go make something by yourself, get it out there, and then people will want to hear your pitch. But right now, most pitching is you go in and they say, we bought this IP, what can you do with it? We bought all the Hasbro toys. We bought Stretch Armstrong. We bought, so what can you do with that? And some people, obviously, someone like a Greta Gerwig

did something amazing with it. Right. But she got to that position because she started off doing her own stuff. Making her own films. Making her own stuff. So they went, oh, this person can make a film without going. The thing, there's a guy named Matt Fraction,

comic book writer and artist, and he said such a great thing in life when you are first starting your career and people hire you. They want to know two things. Is this person talented? and are they crazy? And if you are super, super talented, but also fucking crazy,

eventually they won't work with you. They will take B minus talent plus the person's not crazy with a plus, but you don't know when this guy is good. Like, they have enough fucking headaches. Right. Now, Greta happens to be super talented and also not crazy. Right. You know what I mean? But they want to know, can you go and do the work?

And she clearly, and you look at people like, Zach Kregers and Ryan Kugler. They clearly are like, oh, these guys, yeah, they can do the work. They're not crazy. They can just come in a lot. Yeah, yeah. So that's what they want to see. So right now, we are kind of back to, in a great way, the studio system dying in the late 60s,

and filmmakers just going out and doing their own stuff, and then the studio going, okay, then give that person, right? But they're not signing anyone on contract anymore. What about television? Like we grew up not only on comedy albums, but on so many great sitcoms, and there was just comedy everywhere. Yeah. And you've been a part of some great comedy. You really, I mean, you know, even just as basic, I don't mean as an insult, as King of Queens, it was like that was a real funny lead with a real funny idea and got real funny comedians that he knew involved.

And it's like that machine isn't gone now. It is kind of gone. Although, you know, sometimes with a sitcom when you have someone like a Kevin James or a Kelsey Grammer, someone who can really just absolutely hold, TV acting is so frigging hard. It's so unnatural to make it seem natural.

So Kevin James was in that grouping of people like a Danny DeVito or a Jackie Gleason. They can make it seem, make the unnatural seem very, very natural. Yeah. But now I don't think people have the attention span, and it's partially the fault of the studios who were very, very happy to start putting their stuff out for free and making it convenient and shoot it off.

A lot of my... I'm working with a clip service now that puts my stuff up, and they're like, you know, you were always, when you were filming your specials, you were thinking horizontally like a film, and they want it vertically. And you've noticed a lot of young comedians sound like standstill and have it so it works vertically on a phone.

Oh, literally. physically work. Make it work that way. Oh, really? Yeah, and there's a lot of that. There was a throwaway joke on 30 Rock that is now coming true. What's they're talking about,

Will Arnette's character, they go, oh my God, he's the guy that invented the eight-second sitcom. And then they cut to this guy, well, honey, I'm home, great. And they just run the credits. Like, that's it. Yeah.

But that is what we're bumping up against. And, you know, the idea of an A story and a B story is, I mean, I know, I'm not going to name the streaming services, but I know that, because I've had this said to me, a lot of streaming services now are like, oh, the tonnage of characters in your script.

The tonnage. Tonnage. The tonnage. Because you have five characters? I'm not, yes, because you have five characters. Because what they want are shows that can be watched while people do that. Wow. That's why they love talking head true crime documentaries.

Right. And stand-up specials where it's just talking. And a show, it's a miracle. Wow. when a really amazing show like Dark or Squid Game, but those are acquisitions. Right. Those aren't made.

You know, and a movie like a show has to get shot somewhere else and then picked up. Right. But they're not going to generate that themselves. They want to serve their algorithm. And look, this is no different than what the studios were doing in the late 60s, early 70s. They panicked for a little bit.

And major movies were bad for a while. But all this stuff was bubbling up underneath and we'll go through the exact same thing with TV. Bubbling because people are just still making it on their own. People are always going to make good movies. I mean, everyone that's like, everyone that keeps saying, oh my God, this year is the worst movie. We've had some of the best movies come out this year.

Yeah. Like one after the other. Even movies that were great that the studio fumbled. I just saw a movie called Companion. Have you seen Companion? No. Holy shit. It's so fucking good.

And the studio immediately put it on HBO Max. They didn't give it any chance in the theaters. It could have been just as exciting as sinners, Eddington, one battle after the other. It was that good. Really? And they didn't know what to do with it. And it's so genuinely, if anyone's watching this or listening,

don't read anything about it. Don't watch a trailer. Right. And don't look at the poster. Just go watch this movie. And it's so. It's so fucking good. Yeah.

No, people are always making stuff. Yeah, I do. People will always do, listen, when did you start comedy? 1993, June 12th. Okay, well, I started in 88. I started right before the collapse. Right. And I can tell you, during the collapse, when every single club closed, the hacks stopped

doing comedy. Yeah. But the people that really care were like, I'll go up in a laundromat. I don't care. Yeah. I'll just keep going. Yeah. And it was good timing for us because a lot of people cleaned.

out and and people weren't paying and we didn't want pay we just wanted to be there. I wanted stage time and that's what's happening now and again you know someone like a Zach Craigers and a Ryan Cougar are getting their flowers and just rewards for the years they put in right for nothing really just grueling but they there's always going to be people making amazing films yeah always just because it's a little more personal what does it mean for L.A.? How are you feeling about Los Angeles where we're both living? Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting where L.A. is going to have to... L.A. is going to have to rediscover about itself what people outside of L.A. are discovering about themselves, which is...

No, I don't have massive stars. Maybe I don't have massive special effects, but I can shoot things that have never been put on film again, and shoot in areas that have never been filmed, use geographic light that's never been captured on film before to make something so startling and new. You know, go shoot out in Palmdale or Azusa are these weird, the quality of the light out in the desert towns, or even in the more teeming suburbs out here, is so much more startling than stuff you can create

on a soundstage or with AI or with a green blanket and start looking at stuff like that. Which is why the business came here in the first place. Because of the sunlight. Right. Yeah, but there's other... And the variety. There's things that get revealed in the sunlight out here that people ignore.

Right. That need to be rediscovered. Right. But yeah, it's going to be, we are going to go through. I shot a movie a few years ago in Albuquerque, and there was such a Hollywood expatriate community that now lives out there, especially technical people. Yeah. They're like, shoot so many movies out here.

while I just moved here. Yeah. And just like all the people I know that have now permanently moved to Vancouver and Toronto. Yeah, Atlanta. Or Atlanta or, oh my God, Savannah. Right. Because of all the stuff that gets shot down there now.

I mean, Netflix just built a, what, like a $30 billion studio in New Jersey. It was smart. Yeah. Good for them. Yeah. Which, weirdly enough, is where the movie started. Right. Exactly.

In Fort Lee. Yeah, yeah. So it's weird how it's all coming. coming back around, but the idea of you gotta be in Hollywood to make movies is very quickly going away. And it's one of the reasons that horror movies are so profitable right now. They all turn to profit because they're super low budge,

they're very easy to sell, and if you're out somewhere weird, use that atmosphere. It is startling, no one's ever seen it on screen before. So it sounds like your answer is, L.A. might not be what L.A. was. But it could be better. I mean, comedy, when the, when the boom collapsed, and everyone's like, well, comedy's not going to be the same again.

But near the height of the boom, comedy wasn't that stopped being good. Remember they were just putting in jugglers and all-rated hypnotists and it was just in every strip club. And it wasn't, I mean, strip mall, it wasn't special anymore. And it was just like, you know, it's almost like it's why people are turning back toward practical effects. Because now that special effects, to quote Mike Stoclosset at Red Letter Media,

if there's a special effect in every shot of your movie, by definition, it's not a special effect. If it's in every shot, like you make it count, make it specials. We were like, whoa. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, L.A. L.A. is a creative city,

but it's also an industry town. And the industry towns that survive are the ones who don't get hung up on. But this is the way it is. Right. Nothing will ever stay the way it is in creativity. It constantly morphs and changes in music and comedy. There was a time you could easily make $100,000 a year as a comedian,

and not really have to be that creative and not be that original. Right. Because people were kind of like, I just want to see this. Yeah, just cranking it out. You were there to sell drinks and food. Yeah. And then when that all collapsed, the only people that could get anyone's attention where people doing something really unique.

Right, right. And they weren't making any money. Yeah. I remember an interview with Beck, she said, you say the devil a lot in your songs. You use the word devil. He goes, yeah, well, I used to play a lot in strip clubs.

And the only way to get people to look at you is to say the word devil. They would suddenly, like, I just realized they would stop and look at you. So there was just like, I got to start them a little bit, you know? Yeah, do something. Yeah, so again, we are getting to the point where, and again, we're seeing how to move forward.

look at what people like Kelly Reichard are doing and Ryan Kugge and people like that do something, roll the dice and do something original. Right. You know? Do you have a film in you? Do you want to go make films? Oh yeah, no, I definitely, this is... Like, it seems like, to me,

you've done so much, and you're such a great performer and writer and cinephile. It seems like... Or why haven't you made more... I tell you exactly why I haven't. You seem like a guy would crank out small films. Yeah, but I get very, I have to get over the idea that something that I make is completely reflective of me and if it fails, then I have failed.

Like, you've got to go out and fail a little bit. And I've, I went through so much failure as a comedian, so much failure as a writer, that now I'm a little bit gun shy. Even though you come up the other side of it, and you're like, oh, you get the courage to do the thing you're afraid of after doing it. Yeah. That's when you get the courage. And also I just get, when I say lazy,

I will get offered a movie or a tour or a writing project. I'm like, oh, go do that. Sure. Rather than, you know what? Say no to shit for a while. Right. Just go do your own thing.

And this year especially, my brother really kind of, I got accredited him for this. He really sat me down and was like, you know, there's a thing I want to go, say, if you want to do it, you got to show this thing itself that you want to do it. You got to show up for it.

And you keep, if you keep hedging, your bets, that thing is going to feel like, well, he's not totally here for me. And it won't happen. It's really true. So you need to, like, this can't be, hey, I've got two days of activity on this thing, and then I don't look at it for another six months. Like, it's got to be every day for you. Every day, because it builds momentum. It creates it in the universe. Yes, if you just start bothering people and calling people, you know, and so he really kind of did. So, yes, I'm still doing stand-up and stuff on the weekends, but a lot of my, and I'm really promoting this album, because I want this album to do well,

because this is how I'd like to do comedy. Yeah. From this point on, it's just do albums. I would love if that worked. But, oh, announcing your plans is a way to make God laugh. But there also, there does have to be a, you wanna make a film, well then go make a film, and that means you don't do all this other stuff.

No, I know. You can't say yes to everything. When it's hard, especially coming from the standup world where to say, to pull the plug and stop doing it is pretty terrifying. Especially, you and I both remember, all the years you were so fucking broke. Yeah.

So, I, I, I, I, I had been broke and poor in ways that were almost like a, it was almost like a Dr. Seuss book where you're like,

people aren't poor. That, wait a minute, is that how poor you? Like, I had to, um, I had to,

I literally went down to the phone, when I was in San Francisco, I went down to the phone company. I was like, and I had like all this money. I was like, I can give you this much money. and I know my bill is this much

If you can let me I was like talking to this woman like face to face Like if you would just let me keep my phone on for a week I promise I'll use that week I'll just be on the phone I'll call and get a bunch of gigs And then I'll make the money with the gigs And I'll come down here with the money

And I was almost crying And she's like okay I can fix it so your phone will stay on for a week And I'm like giving her like dollar bills Orders and stuff like that And I go and I'll come back here next Friday I'll show you these

gigs I have and it'll be enough to pay the rest of my bill and I'll ask if they'll give me money. It was like, it was the most, but that's, but that's where we were at. I used to get, I used to get five dollars for doing late night sets at the comic strip and I was so happy because I could get the big, uh, egg and cheese on a bagel that would last me breakfast and lunch. I used to, um, there was a place in, in San Francisco called La Cumbra, still there at the corner of 16th and Valencia. At the time, you could get a giant burrito for 75 cents, rice and beans, and you could eat half of it, and then nuke the other half for dinner, and those were your, because you're like, rice and beans, carbs and protein, okay, I can make it. And I, there would be weeks

where that's, I would just buy, I'd get that for lunch, that was my lunch, cut it in half, and then that was my dinner. Yeah, and, and what's so great about those times when you look back at it, you were not stressed in any way about that. That was actually like, I'm killing it. I'm literally killing it. I'm a comedian. I found a way. I'm a comedian and I'm getting by. That's all you needed. One year at the end of the year, this was in 1993, I had made, at the end of the year, I had made $11,000, but only from doing stand-up. And I was so proud of myself that I'm like, I was able to pay the rent and keep the phone on and pay my, because it was constantly, and parking tickets and stuff.

Yeah. But I only had to do, like, I made it. Yeah. 11 grand. Like, I was so kind of like, I'm in show business. Like, what do you do? I'm just to commute.

Like, because up to that point, it was like, well, I, I work, I answer phones in this warehouse and I also work in this coffee shop and I do this, you know, and I'm house sitting for these three people. Yeah. And then it was like, yeah, just, just comedy this year. Just comedy. Just comedy. It's pretty good.

Amazing. Pretty good. I got, yeah, $3 in my wallet. And everything's paying. I got $3 extra. And that's, well, that's three burritos from La Cumbra, and I can tip the guy. I don't have to look like a bum. I can give him a quarter.

And now, and now do you carry what I perceive of you? Do you carry it around that every time you release something, a new special, it's going to be nominated? Oh, I don't carry that around. I think, again, that's, I think my last special was not nominated. Impossible. But I think that if, again, and you see. see a lot of people, it ruins their careers when they start expecting that.

Uh-huh. Because then they will subtly, uh, tweak their stuff to try to appeal to that. Right. And then it stops growth. Right. I think there should be times where you just go off the fucking, off the reservation and really do something weird and then commit, like, yeah. And again, you see a lot of directors who got close to the Oscar and then everything

they did was, this is my, you're like, no, you're like, no, you're You were exciting when you didn't give a shit. That's when all your best stuff came out. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I'm... But you do get nominated a lot.

I get nominated a lot. And I'm very gratified. Justified. Thank you. You're a very good writer. I've been nominated for a lot of Grammys. I've won one. Yeah.

But I've been nominated for a lot. And again, it feels good, but there's things that I do feel like sometimes you're... I never want to get to that point in a special where I'm near the end and doing one of those, like, so this is what it all. is about right now. Like, no, I want it to be goofy. That's the best. Yeah.

The goofiest. Because that's stuff that last. I know. I know. I find that when I'm putting it together. And you're looking at like, all right, I'm getting there. I'm getting, I have a bunch of stuff. Where's the fun?

Where's like there's just the goofy? You talk in your special now about hoof cleaning videos. Oh, my God. I didn't know what this was a thing. You didn't? Well, then you're lucky. You, okay. I am someone.

I'm so angry right now. They didn't mean to do this. Why? I keep discovering these videos of people doing like a certain task. They're cleaning the hooves of cows and horses, and it's so mesmer. And you just watch hoof clean? It's literally cleaning the hoops. And someone just sent me, there's an Instagram account of a guy in England.

He's called the Sign Cleaner. And he has all these tools. And he goes in my old signs and it just cleans them. And I, they send me like, hey, have you seen this? and I wrote back, I'm like, you mother fucker. And I'm not exaggerating like 40 minutes to an hour of me just watching him. What does he do to you? What makes you so happy?

You know why? Because, okay, getting back to making a movie, when you're making a movie, you are making something from nothing. You don't know where it starts. You don't know where it ends. It is truly up to you. A sign that's dirty. It's a very clear task is in front of you.

you can actually complete this. There will be an ending to this and you will know when it is ended and there's something so relaxing about that. It's like filming a dishwasher. I know when this is done. I can complete this task. Oh my God. With a movie or when I wrote, I've written two books when you write those books.

When you're writing a book and you go do anything else, you're like, oh, I'm, I should be writing this book. I can't finish it because there's no, you can't decide when the ending is. No, exactly. And same with comedy. There's no such thing as like, I've written my perfect hour of comedy. That task is done. It's like, no, you are always writing.

You're always coming up. And what's even more, what really drives you crazy, I remember talking to Mitch Headberg about this, and he really, and it really, it still causes me anxiety. He was like, is there anything worse than when you put out an album,

we're special? And there's some killer bit that you're so happy to have on that special. and the week after it comes out, you think of a better way to do that bit where you're like, God, like if I'd left one line out of that, it would have been even better.

And now every fucking time I put out a special the week after you're like, there's the solve. If I had just, it just drives you crazy. I know, but you just have to stop at some point. Yeah, you have to, you've got to move on. That's kind of the good thing about having to generate so much new material now

because everybody can see all your materials, so you have to keep creating is that you don't just work on that. Stopps you being so precious about it. And you know, okay, let's write some more stuff, let's go up. Yeah. And I think audiences, especially on a weeknight, are way more open to see if the stuff works. Yeah. You know, they're- Oh, they love it.

There are certain comedians that still have that ego thing. And I get that, too, and where they're like, I've always got to kill. Right. But the really, truly great ones are the ones that go up and go, okay, thought this would work. Yep. Sorry. Which to a real comedy audience is three. They love it. They love it. When you hear a comico, you mind if I try something out, the audience is like, yeah, please do. Yeah. Thank you. I'm so grateful that Jerry Seinfeld put that sequence in his documentary where he's working on the think tank bit. And he has a footage. First he has footage of him doing it. It's not. He has not found it. But you can see, he's like, but there's something here. I don't know. And then he's sitting with George Wallace and Colin Quinn.

And then they break it open for him. And you see that, that's, yes. Like, so those moments that when you break it open or, that's the other thing, too, that it gets kind of frustrating about being when you start headlining. Yeah. And you get busy with your career. You don't have those days where you just hung out and you just riff stuff back and forth. I know. And you would add to people like, hey, remember this?

Although I just worked with a guy named Mike Kaplan and he is also a great comedian. And he, after my step, was like, can I give you a couple of tags? I was like, yes. Yeah, please, please. And he gave me a couple things that I had not even, I was like, oh, thank you. Yeah, it's the best. I like being on the road and having openers,

I'm friends with the person, because then we can, like, riff back and forth. Yeah, if they just want to talk comedy, I'm in. If you can just sit in the car right to the next thing and just talk about bits, it's the best. In my second to last special, there's a bit that I close with, this Denny's bit.

And up until a month before I did the special, that was in the middle of the set. And my opener, who travels with me a lot, Orlando Laba at the time, now he's kind of headlining. He's like, shouldn't you close the thing with that bit? Like, it wraps everything up. And then I couldn't.

The best. You can't see it sometimes. I know. You get so close. So like those moments, you know, I'll never, you know. And again, when you read about the making of great films or the making of great albums, it was always other people going,

hey, why don't you do this? Right, exactly. Oh, fuck, it's right. Do you have, you don't have to go through, if you do have it, I'm not asking for you to tell me what it would be in any regard. But do you have some ideas of what could be a film? There's a script that my brother wrote that I want to direct that I'm taking out to people that I think is fabulous.

And then I have an idea for a script that I now realize is better. I've written 11 drafts of this as a movie. And I've just realized, wait a minute, this is an epic TV show. the way that they're making truly great. TV shows now are the way movies were in the early 70s where you can really get into character stuff and background. And it took me this, Ron, realized, oh, no, this is a TV show. Right, right.

And then there's another thing I have for a really down and dirty. Like, I want to, I'm becoming obsessed with these movies that are like 77 minutes long. Uh-huh. Like, the real, like, Bride of Frankenstein is 71 minutes long. Yeah, Walking Dead last night was an hour. They pack more characters. and plot into these efficient, you know what I mean?

Themies long ass, oh my God, what are you doing? Yeah, it's the best. Sometimes a movie isn't good when it's two and a half hours long. I know. Give me something quick. Yeah. Tell me the story. Oh, yeah.

So I have an idea for a very simple. And I also love what I'm really looking at again is low stakes or something so human about low stakes. Yeah. Rather than we're going to steal $600 million. I know. But two people in a diner. Just give me two people. Life or death and it's over 12 grand.

But that 12 grand can actually change his person's life. Right. There's something very real about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's great. Yeah, you're going to make one. Yeah.

I can't wait to be in it. As the, um... Because I'll tell you what's not going to happen. What? The comic book I presented. Well, no, I'm sorry. I didn't want to be the one to say it. I'm glad that you came around to say it.

But the gruff baker with the heart Art of Gold, that'll be in my crime movie. I haven't done your Largo show in a while. I'd love to come. That's right. All right. We always have a good time when we do those. Well, your stuff, again, and it kind of goes back to what we were talking about,

that you and Jackie Cation also of you really are both able to embrace just being completely overwhelmed by life, which I think is a very, a lot of times comedians want to bring audiences that, let me tell you how it is. And it's very comforting when sometimes when an audience he's a comedian going, I am, if anything, even more lost than you guys because things are so accelerating. And so that kind of quality, but that's very, again, the great character actors, especially from the 70s, more than Warren Oates, were always very comfortable playing characters that were dumber than the other characters, which a lot of actors aren't comfortable doing.

But that's a very real human thing to be out of your depth and struggling. People actually connect with that character. Right, exactly. They, they, the person you connect with in Jaws is not the Krusty Shark Hunter or the Ocean Oshenovic expert. It's the guy like, listen, maybe we get like a bigger,

I didn't think there was to be this big. I hate the water. Really freaking out right now. And you're like, well, that's me. Right. That would be me in that situation, you know? It was like, I don't know if you saw the remake of Dawn of the Dead. It's, um, um, uh, Zach Snyder.

It's such an amazing film. Yeah. And it's such, it's so amazing because the original is amazing. And most people go like, well, I don't want to, I can't outdo the original. And he goes a totally different, and it's also equally amazing. Right. But, um, there's a guy in, uh, the movie, uh, tie. Borell from modern family plays a guy. They're all hunker down in this mall. Yeah. And he basically

does a version of what Bill Paxson does in aliens where he's the guy who is quietly panicking and trying to keep a lid on it. And he's so fucking real. Yeah. And up to that point, you've been following Ving Rames and you've been following, oh, who's that amazing actress? It's now a filmmaker. She's the star of the movie. She was in The Sweet Here After. Why Am I Blank? on her name. I don't know, but you asking us isn't going to help. No, it really isn't. Sarah Polly.

You're following them, but then when heesh comes along, you're like, oh, no, that's me. Right. That's, that's me in this situation. He's so perfect and really confident actors, and I also think really confident comedians can play thee, and I don't have an answer for this. Right. I'm actually stumped. That's my whole act.

Yeah, exactly. I am. I am overwhelmed. And I just, that is so real. That's so, again, especially now. Yeah. Well, I have to say, and I know I've said this before, and I'll embarrass you by saying it again,

watching you and watching your stand-up, purely just the stand-up, that we were able to become friends and that I could be hanging with you and doing shows with you really meant a lot. It really was like, oh, I'm not just a mall comedian. I can go hang with the cool kid. You were, I was such a fan of yours that I became the way deadheads are where someone to talk about, oh, that song, A Friend of the Devil, and like, yeah, but there's a version they do on a thing, 1973 in Newport, they did a different lyric. And I'm telling you, I know that's the one of the album, you do a fucking bit about zip wires. And you, and it's, I think it's in your third to last special where you talk about, don't go over, like, Long Island or, because, like, Staten Island.

Stad Island, but you did an earlier version of it, and I don't want to be the one going, this is the better one, but you talked about it's so mean, but it's so true, like taking a zip wire over Delaware, and someone's like, hey, shouldn't we go down there and explore? Like, this is all you, just,

this 10 minutes you've seen, you're good, like, that's all I got to do. Keep moving. That was so fucking real. That made me laugh so hard. Oh, that's good. I respect that. Because you started off going,

why are we zip wiring over the, the rainforest, you should be, there's amazing things happening. Don't do it in 10 minutes. And then, but yeah, Delaware, that's 10 minutes. That's fine. You can totally do it. Really, we should go around to explore. Yeah.

Trust me. It's, but we, you got it. You got the idea. That really warms my heart. It warms my heart. So hard. But then I got to be the common year going, I know you, I know it was funny on the special,

but I saw a version. This is Largo, 2021, different version. I have a lot of tapes. I do a lot of, you don't let, you don't have pop. I got so many bootlegs, man. Final question. Yeah.

Because you are politically astute, but also nerdy. I'm not politically astute, I'm politically concerned. Concerned. I wish I was smarter about it. Yeah, that's a good way to say it. Yeah, just concerned. You know when, you can sense when there's trouble. Are there any-

That is exactly how to put it, I sense when there's trouble. Yeah. Are there any weird conspiracy theory? that you believe in or think maybe that there is something to that? Here's my thing about conspiracy theories, and this is a new bit that I'm working. I do it. I do it now, but I'm also working on it. I think conspiracy theories are very, very necessary to modern life.

They are, I think they are all bullshit, all bullshit. But they are comforting. Because conspiracy theories are there for us to go, oh, yeah, someone, in control. Right. Even if that person's evil, we'd love to think that there's a plan. Yeah.

It is so much more comforting to go, CIA spent 10 years setting up the JFK hit. They had Cubans, mafia, and hitters from out of the country. They had planes ready. That is so much more comforting than this weird loser. Out of nowhere. And a cheap rifle and blew his head off.

Yep. No one wants to think about that. No, it's too chaotic. That's what I'm with COVID. That's what I'm with COVID. They wanted to just please make one person responsible for this so I can rest at night. And the reality is nobody knows. And by the way, every pandemic we've ever had

is because people were fucking lazy and complacent and shit got out of control. Right. You know, all the typhoid outbreaks in the 1890s were because there was no regulations on anything because all the business leaders were like, I don't want to pay money for cleanliness. Right.

You know, but there was no conspiracy. They weren't going, we must give people typhoid. No, they're just like, I just want to make a lot of money right now. Yeah. And then they realized, oh, shit, I gave everyone typhoid. But they are comforting to people. But they're very comforting. And the thing that convinces me that all conspiracy theories are bullshit more than anything else

are every time they reveal a conspiracy theory to be true. Because whenever they could reveal one that actually is true, it's always the dumbest shit you've ever heard. What do you mean? In other words, the CIA, they fake the moon landing. You're like, oh, I don't know, man, that's that huge job. You're talking about, like, as people. No, no, they do a lot. Hey, you know, they tried to kill Castro for a decade.

It's like, oh, how'd they try? I don't know if that's true either. No, no, they actually admitted that. That conspiracy theory is true. Wow, how did they do it? They sent him poison cigars. Was Yosemite Sam one of the CIA women? Acmee from Acmeagascar Company?

The people that you think fake the moon landing are the same people whose plan to kill Castro was male him poison cigars. That, no. I'm sorry. There's no way, those same brains, that's not in the same link. So every time that they reveal one and, you know, the times they do attempt a plan or a conspiracy theory, it's always the clumsiest stupidest shit you've ever heard. Right. It's always the dumb, trying to get people to, weren't they like buying up avant-garde

and cubist art early in the 50s to try to unsettle the Russians or something like that? Oh, really? Yeah, there's like, it's why a lot of, uh, um, Jackson Pollock stuff sold because the CIA was the ones funding it. And you're like, so wait a minute, the plan to make Clee and Pollock to make those guys big was also the person that did kill JFK. No, that's not the same thing. So every, you know, again, no one is in control.

They're trying to be. They would very much like to be. Yeah, we could sleep at night if we thought that was true. I mean, that's what comics are really, right? here's a bad guy, and we can blame all of this on that guy. We have actually become that as if we can influence. Yeah. It's insane.

Yeah, insane. Congratulations on the special. Thank you. Send me pictures, let me know how you like the bread. Oh, are you kidding? I'm going to send you some stuff you can't show on the internet. That bread and that ear, oh, that ear's going to get nibbled. You're the best.

We got it, kids. Thank you.