Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 294 - Jim Gaffigan

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

This week Jim stops by to chat about his comedy process, his new YouTube special, and gives out life advice. Enjoy! F*%k your khakis and get The Perfect Jean 15% off with the code PAPA15 at https://theperfectjean.nyc/PAPA15 #theperfectjeanpod As an exclusive offer, our listeners can get free steak in every box for a year PLUS $20 off your first box when you go to ButcherBox.com/papa. Your choice of filet mignon, New York strip, or ribeye in EVERY box for an entire year, PLUS $20 off your first box, and free shipping always. Use code PAPA at monarch.com for half off your first year. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Canadian. Got it. There is also, there's, but there's bourbon, which is probably 80% of the market. Right. And then there is rye whiskey. And then there's American whiskey. And then there's corn. And then there's wheat. Got it. Whiskey. And so some of it is kind of recipes. Jack Daniels is just straight whiskey. That's Tennessee whiskey. Tennessee whiskey. And sometimes Tennessee, see, so Tennessee whiskey, which is, I have a joke about how it's essentially bourbon, but they do have this. gyrical filtering process that's called the lincoln county process which makes it uniquely tennessee but some of it is story so that and i talk about that right it's science and 80% you say something like and then something else and 51% corn 49% bullshit it's breaking bread

jimmy it's so nice of you to be here and i'm excited about this because we are going to take a deep dive into your new special, the bourbon set. And I truly am very excited because while we know each other very well, this is going to give me a chance to ask you a lot of questions about stand-up and your process that I don't get to ask when we're just together because it would be weird. Right. But I'm going to ask you a lot of really in-depth questions about just you and your stand-up because you're so prolific and you crank stuff out.

and I think it's time to expose how you do it. That would be great. That would be great. First of all, the set is really funny. Oh, thank you. It's all about bourbon. Yes. Was this a way to just tell jokes about something new that you love

or a way to let yourself and your family know that you don't have a drinking problem? Right. It was one of those things where, As we know, it's all self-assignment, right? And you, you know, that self-assignment could be writing a book. You've written a bunch of books. It could be writing a script, which we've all done, which is a waste of time. It's such a waste.

And stand-up, which is, you know, we, as comedians know, is there's an immediate feedback, right? and but with um live at old forester the bourbon set the assignment was i knew it was so niche yeah i used to say niche or whatever and my daughter was like you that's not it's niche and i was like all right i don't know i'm from indiana and so i knew it was so niche uh like i didn't even go to netflix or hulu or Amazon with it because it was so niche that there's an understanding in the stand-up world that you get to release a special, a comedy special, every two years. Right. But I'm somebody who does these self-assignments. I could have done a book. I could have done, you know, and some of it is I had like 10 minutes on Bourbon and I did a show.

Lexington and I was like you know maybe I should just do a set or you know definitely not a special but like a thing yeah you know there might not be an outlet I investigated you know I knew I could do it on YouTube I'd never done anything on YouTube yeah I've done clips and stuff like that but I investigated other platforms you know non majors you know yeah and even individuals individual brands. Uh-huh. And so I thought, okay, I'm just going to give myself this assignment and see where it lands.

I know it's going to be very niche, but also I think if I say it's a bourbon set, the bourbon set, people aren't going to be like, why is he talking about bourbon? You know, and if I, if I partnered with Old Forrester to cover the production costs. And so I wanted it to be a package. But I didn't want to like lose money but I you know essentially out of the deal I'm getting they're giving me a case of old Forrester so tech not it's it's king of Kentucky But like so I'm doing this it is truly a passion project yeah and I'm being paid in alcohol essential right and you've you have your own bourbon I do so so you really kind of immersed yourself in this

world. Yeah. And I just as your pal have watched it really take over your life. Yes. It really, and it's, you know, in the bourbon set, you'll realize that alcoholism is a very serious thing. Yeah. But this is much more of a bourbon obsession. Right. And there are bourbon geeks. There's a surprisingly large number of them. Yeah. And I've been able to meet them. And, the the bourbon geek community is very similar to comedians in some ways yeah like we can talk about comedy for hours and they can talk about bourbon for hours yeah you did a set on a fundraiser that i was doing in new york and you just jumped on to work out some stuff and this

was a audience i think it was for ms or something it was like completely a thousand miles away from bourbon drinkers. Yeah. And you just came up and everyone was excited to see you and you did 20 minutes on bourbon. Yeah. Which really was proof of concept to me

because they were with you the whole time. I mean, that was, you know, that was a fortunate experience. I think you would agree that when you're touring, you, the relationship you have with people that come to your shows is,

They're entrusting you with their money, but also, more importantly, their time. Right. Their night out. Yeah. And so that's another reason why I did this as kind of a niche thing, because I can't, you can get away with it doing 20 minutes here and there and that, that demo seemed to line up. But, you know, I knew that I could, you know, like around Kentucky and Tennessee and maybe Indianapolis. I can

in Atlanta, I can do these bourbon material. But there's a lot of people that don't drink, or if they do, they certainly don't want to hear about it for 45 minutes. Yeah. So it was kind of a difficult process to

because there's a fatigue around a topic in your set. You know what I mean? Yeah, right. If you just, about any topic. There's always off-ramps. Yeah. Like people may not know that like comedians will go into something and they'll judge by the the feedback, all right, I'm going to get off. I'm not doing this. That's fine. They're not feeling it. But when you're doing 40 minutes on

bourbon, people are like, what's going on? So you have done, like you were kind of known for doing some late night sets and stuff just on food or just on bacon or whatever. And it is funny that even in like a short set, if you're just talking only about food or baking, and that people are like, all right, when's it going to change subjects? Like even in like a six minutes set. Yes, yes. Right.

I mean, so it's, I think it's interesting how, you know, the proposition of even doing a show only about bourbon was, you know, when I started stand up, I didn't, you know, it started with, you know, hot pockets. I wanted to make it long.

And then bacon, I wanted to make it long. And then my wife had this brain tumor. So it was kind of my first foray into a non-universal topic discussing it at length. And so I did that in a special. And then I've done, you know, but like the assignment of extending a topic as long as I can. I think I did it with horses. Right. And then I did the picture.

Taurus where I did whole sets on, like I did a set on Spain and a set on Canada. And again, if you're from Canada, you'd be interested. If you're someone who, like, loves Spain, you'd be interested. But most people are like, I don't know if I need more than five minutes of jokes on Spain. But it's an interesting thing because, like, these jokes are all about bourbon. Yeah. And you really get kind of specific about like names of labels and the people behind it, the history of it. Like it gets pretty granular at times.

But there is this thing of just you as the comedian. And if I'm a fan of you, the comedian, whatever you want to go into, I'm going to go along for the ride. There is that element. Like you have your fans. And like you said, they trust you not just with their night. but just with the entertainment you're serving up, do you give thought to that or does this shed light on that? Like, do you think that you could, with your diehard fans,

which you have many, you could talk about almost anything and they're going to kind of, I mean, because even as granular as it is, you're also tied into very, it's very Jim Gaffigan. It's talking about your wife and talking about your life and you're out of control id, you know, that kind of stuff, right? So like, did a shed light on that? Like how much of it is Jim and how much of it is the material?

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't really, I'm so assignment focused. I did feel like it was, you know, here, we and are, you and I have been married for a long time. A long time. We've been married together, everyone. We're married to each other. Very long time. And there are times in your relationship where you say, I'm going to do this one for me.

Right. Do you know, you're accused of living under that premise. But like, for instance, I have, you know, we bought this place that had land where I could do a big garden. And my wife was not interested. And I was like, we're going to do it anyway. Yeah. And so, and I acknowledge that. And she was not thrilled about it.

But, and so, like, there is, I guess it's selfish. I guess it's a moment of, you know, you know, I, you can, the positive description is self-assignment. Yeah. But the, there is a heavy dose of like, this is what I'm interested in. Yeah. And so I'll go. But how much, but how much, just because that question.

It's very stand-upy. Yeah. How much do you think is the material of what's turning on your audience and how much of it is Jim? Well, I don't know. I think it's, I think, so topic or, or, or guy. Yeah. I think that guy has a lot to do with it. Yeah.

Or gal. I think that in a way, you know, and I learn this when I, I did material about or you know like I still do material on religion that often material about religion is not about a belief system it's about human beings and their association with that meaning either my failure to follow some of these premises or my wife's unique relationship with her religion right and are and So that's where I think it's much, you know, it's more about the guy and if it can be kind of a human condition. Yeah.

But I also am sensitive to the fact of, like even in the bourbon set, I said, you should be 21 or older to listen to this. And that's not like, some of that is like when I was 18 last year. No, when I, no, when I was 18, I wouldn't be interested in this. So, right. And also there are some kind of adulty themes. Yeah. But nothing where you'd feel uncomfortable, but like, there's just different interests. Yeah, yeah.

There is that, like you, I'm sure you hear, as I hear, is whatever you say, I just want to hear you say it. Like, you could read from the phone book, that kind of a thing. And they just like your cadence and who you are and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And there is, for super fans, that I think does hold. I think you could just kind of get up there and it's only, and that's why it was impressive about you putting together this bourbon set. When you walked into Gotham to do the set on my show,

those people were not all Jim diehards. So to go in there with bourbon material, because then it's less about the guy, right? I think that's the value of going to clubs and working on your set is because it's not. It's not always your people. Well, I think that's really important to not be in front of your people. Yeah. And I say that because if you value your people, because I think that, I mean, because we've, you know, we've been touring around, you're going back to cities.

You've been multiple times. Yeah. And I'm convinced that I have two theories on it. One, I have this belief that. I think there is, I actually disagree with the term fan. I think with stand-up, it is a like-minded point of view. Or they appreciate your point of view. Right.

And I also think that it is a friendship almost, well, I guess it can. And it's an ongoing conversation. Right. So the different chapters in your life, and we've seen this. Like, if you look at like George Carlin's catalog, you know, you can sit there and go, well, he was pretty angry at that point, you know. Yeah, yeah. And I think that it is similar.

I mean, we've been friends forever too, but it is checking in with a friend and seeing how they are processing. And I see it in your stand up, how you're processing, you know, you know, childbirth, you know, new parenthood to, you know, the, the lip of empty nester, you know, you know, even. Yeah, the whole journey. Yeah, the whole journey. And I think that's where people, hopefully, I think people gaining a perspective, either they've been through it,

because there are people in, in, in, that come to my shows that are like, oh, he's dealing with the teenagers now. And they have grown kids. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And they're just kind of like, this is kind of funny that,

it's yeah they can they can remember the pain and frustration and and and they're appreciative maybe that there's a humor humorous take on it right right uh you said you had two theories yeah so the other theory is uh which i mean this is just like a comedy nerd thing that i would just say to tom no matter what is that i believe that there is is when you go to a market, let's say I'm going to Chicago, there are people that will come to see you. You obviously want to reach all the people, but the expectation is that say you have 100 people that want to see you. The realistic thing, if there's 100 people that sincerely want to see you, the realistic thing, the realistic thing. is that really there's only 50 people available.

And so once they see you in Chicago. So like if there's 100 people that would see you in Chicago, I think only 50 can come. Oh, can make it. And that's not capacity. That's just like what's going on in their life. Sure. That's if they saw you last time, like part of what I'm saying is that like people don't see you every time you come through.

Right. They might see you every other time or maybe every third time, but it's just, it's a big ass. Now, that's not to say that, who knows, maybe Chappelle people come and see him every single time he's in a city. I don't know. But like, but like the initial, there's the arc of the relationship of a comedian with someone that comes to their show, which is the discovery. and then there is the consistency, which hopefully we've provided. But the expectation is also like, you know, but then the special that they'll see on Netflix or Hulu will, is part of the motivation to see you next time. It's not just that initial discovery.

That's not because there are people, you know, having done theaters as long as we've done, you know, the person who's, you know, like filling arenas, it's like, it's amazing how often it drops down. Whereas like I feel like you and I are just kind of slow and steady. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Like keeping in the pocket there. Yeah.

How much better are you at comedy at this point than 10 years ago? Because to put together, you, you more than anybody, crank out specials with more regularity than most. You have, and you're very good at getting high-quality stuff ready to be shot, which means that your hit rate has to be pretty good to be able to do something in a year that another comic would take two years to do. how much better are you at this at this stage than say 10 years ago i mean i think um i mean i look at uh i think

i'm a lot better at it i've always been a slow learner i try to communicate this to my kids though you know they're struggling and i'm like it's going to take you longer and it's like or or just writing and rewriting like one of my kids will write a paper i'm like you got to rewrite it You got to rewrite it a hundred times. And that's like saying a kid can't go outside. You know, like they're like, what are you talking about? It's done. I'm not going to rewrite it.

And so it's finished. But I think some of it is I love the process. You love the process too. Yeah. And so, but I have a different question for you. Okay. Because again, we have all these different creative outlets that we're very fortunate to have. Yeah.

And one of them is doing a stand-up special. And one of them is writing a book. Like, because of this, the accessibility to feedback on stand-up, do you think that's held you away from larger, more, time-consuming or risky creative endeavors. The feedback, because you're in that editing loop where you're able to make it better so much faster. And you can change topics,

whereas if you're writing a scene, that scene has to work within the context of your structure. Whereas with Stand up, you're like, I've got one joke about this. Yeah. And, you know what? It kind of works, and I can figure out a segue to throw it in there. Yeah.

I don't know if it's the immediacy of it that has done it. I mean, because I'm consistently working on stand-up and then working on a book. Yeah. And then, which in the book is slow, you know. There's the thing about, I was thinking about this recently because there are people, oh, I had Judd on. I had Judd Apatow on. And he has his new book. Yeah.

And talking about his journey through comedy and nerddom. And he was similar to us in that he was doing stand-up as his first stop. And then he quickly got into television writing and was like enchandling show as a youngster. And like and then started developing stuff on his own. And he completely went down that path. Yeah. And he's our age. And, you know, but he seems older because he's been around in comedy doing that stuff.

for so long and i was like oh this is really pretty interesting that we stayed in stand-up we we could have gone that route we could have gone submitted a packet to letterman and try and done that we're good writers you could have definitely gone that direction you may not be we may not have had the hits that jud had or there's all those other elements but yeah as far as a path we loved looking back and it's like kind of a revelation to me it was like oh no, I love this, got good at it and continue to explore it and try and get better at it. And we just stayed in that lane. And you've had other stuff where you go do it, but predominantly it was the love of stand-up, I think. I think it has something to do with the immediacy.

But also for me, I remember I did Caroline's Comedy Hour and afterwards. There was this manager who I don't know if he's, you know, in hindsight, I don't even know if he was really kind of serious in this, but he was like, we could get you an audition to be a writer on S&L. And I was like, I don't want to be a writer. And I remember when Greg got his sitcom and goes, I want you to be a writer. I'm like, I don't want to be a writer. Right. And now I sit there and I think, I am a writer. Yeah. And I was, like, how much of that is ego and how much of that is, I think I was frightened that, because initially when I started stand up, my goal was I wanted to be a writer on Letterman. I was like, that would be, that would be the kick. Yeah.

Right. That would be awesome. That would be so fun. And, and, and, but I think there came a point where, and we have, we know many people that are. very successful writers there is something about it that frightened me because you're so beholden to so many other factors yeah that scared me it's out of your control you have to the show's got to be successful they have to hire you yes to keep you on staff and i you know because i was a uh writer in advertising i i i know i know i know

knew that some of it like i you know like advertising there's a it doesn't have the massive injustice of the entertainment industry but there is no rhyme or reason you know but like i was very aware that you could have you could write something decent and someone could come in either your boss or a client and ruin it right and you'd have to just smile and go okay and so there was and the bureaucracy was something that I was frightened of. But I do think that in hindsight, I probably would have gotten a lot out of it. I probably would have gotten a lot out of being a writer on S&L or on Letterman.

There would have been value to it. For sure. I mean, you could have ended up with your, you know, to go in the route and then you get on weekend update a little bit and then you start creating a film for yourself and you do all of those things. The thing that is special, though, about watching your career

is that there's not a lot of people who get great at stand-up and continue. There are a lot of people that are great stand-ups who then take off on another path, leave it for a while, and not even a long while, and then they just kind of lose that thing that they had that made them a great stand because it doesn't matter who you are unless you're constantly doing it it does change you're not as good and that you stayed on it it is so different stand up is so fluid

and some of it is like the consistency of doing it or this is one of my theories which a lot of people have but there's also society changes decade to decade Yeah. I mean, you could do it decade or you could do it kind of whatever. Yeah, but you step out of it. But it's like, that's why when you look at standup of, you know, a great comedian like Bill Hicks and you're like, whoa, he's, he's saying faggot a lot, you know. And it's like, would of that, you know, the genius of him would have that, would he have evolved and been relevant. yes obviously he would have but like it's just like the the even the the concept of irreverence and like those

you know because you and I would that's that's not our currency right you know all comedy I think has some irreverence you know I mean sure but like the people that are all about like the concept of liberty changes similarly right so like what was consistent considered freedom in 1867 is, you know, pretty, pretty ridiculous, you know, now. Yeah. But so, like, what was irreverent in the 90s is either not a reverent, very flat-footed. Right. Or just ugly.

Just ugly, right? Right. No, that's the problem. If you step out of it. Yeah. Even if you're talented and then come back, there's a little bit of a little bit of a, you're out of it, literally. I mean, that's kind of what the phrase is. You're out of it.

You're not in sync with what everybody's talking about and feeling and doing. You could be off just by five years and you can seem irrelevant. And even though it's so incredibly fragmented and you can find your audience, it still is. it i mean i remember it was so fascinating because you know i also don't want to talk about like some but like there are these people that are like these icons that took 20 years off and came back and did stand up and you look at the special and you're like what what like how yeah right and some of it is maybe the audience was so on was so on board because we've also seen celebrities try stand up. Yeah. And they're good for like three minutes. Yeah. And then it gets real ugly,

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you had 10 pages of typewritten stuff that you were going through. Tell me how long it took to put the bourbon set together. What is your process in that, in that you're sitting there with typewritten pages about to go on stage? What are you exactly doing when you're backstained? Well, you know, some of it is obviously, you know, tags and, and, you know, word economy and, you know, just structural stuff that is basic. But I knew when I was doing the bourbon set that it would have to be, you know,

you'd have to have a beginning and an end. And when I say a beginning and an end, I mostly mean a beginning. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like. And meaning there has to be an introductory thing. You know, like there's Alex Edelman and Barbiglia and now Gary Goldman are doing these theatrical shows that are, are, have kind of a narrative structure or thematic. Yeah.

And so it was finding how to introduce this topic. And it's, it's, it's not like it has to be. But, but some of it is I did this in like six months. It was, it was six months. I had 10 minutes. And then I was like, all right, I'm going to do this. I set the date. And what I also, the thing at the date while you had 10 minutes?

Yeah, I had 10 minutes. And I was like, you know what? I've got this Columbus Day weekend. So I did like the Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday of Columbus Day week or whatever. It was the only thing available. Dan Soder was on the Saturday. I was like, I couldn't even get a Saturday. And so, but here's my miscalculation.

My miscalculation is what I thought I knew about bourbon or American whiskey. Like I thought, okay, I know 50%. I knew probably 10 or 15. And so I had to. And then it was tricky. Yeah. That's tricky. That's like when you try and fake that you know what's going on in a town.

Right? Yes. Or you pronounce a street name wrong. Oh, if you don't really know it. Yeah. Oh, they get on you. Yeah. And so there's what a bourbon or American whiskey is like you can be a fan.

It's I never really work this out. But it's similar to like, I remember when I was in high school and I went to a Bruce Springsteen concert. Uh-huh. There was one of my friends that was very upset that there were people there that only liked dancing in the door. You know what I mean? It's like, I'm like, what does it matter? And he's like, yeah, but they don't know. Nebraska.

Yeah, they don't know the other stuff. And I was like, I don't know if that matters. And so that exists on topics that people are very passionate about. That's right. And so I was, you know, so I'm trying to find material. that has some universal themes. Yeah. But also I'm realizing that the learning is,

like there's tons of the science of bourbon. I still don't understand. Yeah. And there's, but you're also diving into the characters, like the people who made it, the first people who kind of twisted it into bourbon off at a whiskey. And,

and like that part, even that gets almost like Ken Burnsy. Like, that would be my biggest trip would be messing up the guy's names. Oh, yeah. Because you get into that kind of minutia. There are definitely, there's different pronunciations. Like, some people say it's Basil Hayden. Some people say it's Basil Hayden.

Right. And I don't want to fight that fight. Yeah. And I don't even want to bring that topic up because, and I also, my point of view is that of kind of a dunce, right? I'm a self-avowed someone who doesn't know. Right, exactly. I mean, just excited to be showing up. Yeah.

Like, hey, you know. What is this world and can I be a part of it? And by the way, I would say that the American whiskey world is very inviting. They're very nice people. Right. They're very forgiving. You know, like, you know, I have father time bourbon, which essentially is just me and a friend from college. and we source barrels and then we kind of like maybe do something like well all right let's mix

these two barrels and we're going to do a special yeah thing and the patience that he has shown me where he's like that's not that's not right you know what I mean and there what do you mean about the product yeah or just like or just what you're saying about it you know I'm trying to think of an example of like can I ask a dumb question yeah uh when you say the whiskey people are very patient. Is that different from the bourbon people? Or is it all the same? Well, American whiskey.

So bourbon is, I guess it's like, you know, what would be a good analogy? So bourbon is of American whiskey. So like it's the predominant one. So whiskey's the big catch-all. Whiskey is the category. So there's Scotch, there's Indian, there's Canadian, there's Canadian. Got it.

There is also, there's, but there's bourbon, which is probably 80% of the market. Right. And then there is, then there is rye whiskey. And then there's American whiskey. And then there's corn. And then there's wheat. Got it. And so some of it is kind of recipes.

Jack Daniels is just straight whiskey. That's Tennessee whiskey. Tennessee whiskey. And sometimes Tennessee, see, so Tennessee whiskey, which is, I have a joke about how it's essentially bourbon, but they do have this charcoal filtering process that's called the Lincoln County process, which makes it uniquely Tennessee. But some of it is story. So that, and I talk about that. Right. It's science and story. Yeah, 80% you say something like, and then some of it's truth or yeah. 51% corn, 49% bullshit. Right. And so there's, there's these different things,

but like the largest segment is bourbon. You know what it is? It's like how people, like the Netherlands, Holland is only part of the Netherlands, but some people say Holland. Right. I guess that's the closest. Yeah, until you really know it. Yeah. And so. So you had 10 minutes of material and you're like, I'm so excited about bourbon.

You've been excited about bourbon for years before that. So now you're starting to actually do jokes and see I'm getting, I can't get away with this? Yeah. And then you decide, let me just. plant a flag six months from now and I have to get a set ready yes on this topic yes for them and and um so there's there's some history that I can look at there's some uh there's the people that enjoy it there's the people that make it there's uh there's a lot of different angles so you're kind of uh how much of it is a little bit more like writing a book at first because there's research

all those things you just listed and how much of it is is it vary at all from the way you would put together just a regular stand-up set? I would say it has much more, you know, like there are material you do that is more educational, not meaning you're present, you're kind of present. You know, like when you're doing your stand-up set, at least for me, there might be like, all right, I need a story here and there. I need a story. I need something that I think is fascinating about this that I can, and maybe in explaining it, I can find some comedy angles. And then there's just observations that you find absurd. Right.

And so with the bourbon set, there was much more explanatory things that had to occur. And then there was also. finding things that are adjacent. I mean, one of the things that was really difficult with the bourbon set is how do you describe this passion and not acknowledge, you know, alcoholism, which is, you know, is a real thing. And we have plenty of friends. I mean, when I was starting to sell father time bourbon, I was selling, I was sending bottles to friends. Right. And a lot of our friends are like, not anymore. You know what I mean? Yeah. Or like, Jim, I've been sober for 20 years. And I'm like,

why are you taunting me with this bottle? And so that was a really difficult thing to navigate. Yeah. Because you obviously, like I, you know, I have a lot of respect for people that have gone through recovery. And then there are some people that have gone through recovery and love the material because it's nostalgia. for their drinking days. And they're in a safe place where it's not, they're not tortured by it as much anymore. They're not tortured by it. But there is something of being aware of that.

Yeah. That it is, how do you make this thing that is problematic to steal a term from today? But that is also, how do you make it universal? So that's where like even my, when I talk a lot about liquor stores, I, you know, I wanted to acknowledge how absurd liquor stores are. So that was like, in some ways that was kind of a traditional stand-up topic.

Exactly. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But it's also. Yeah, that could be in any of your specials. Yeah, that could be. And so the liquor store thing, like, it's just such an oddity and you can just go observational.

But is there a moment when you're when you're creating it? Because this is, you're deliberately creating this. project but then when you stumble into liquor stores where it kind of the light turns on you're like oh i can crank 30 jokes off of this which will end up probably being 10 or five jokes but you're like no this is i am in stand-up territory right yes right at yeah and you know i i you know i think for me i identify a topic and i think oh i'm going to get 30 And I might get two. Sure.

Do you know that you've entered a room that is filled with possibilities? And I would also say that the chunk process of doing stand-up things, whether it be bacon or horse jokes or bring tumor material. The value of a chunk, which you obviously know, is that you can have some A's. And if you go long enough and you don't have. to reintroduce a topic you can throw a C in there and and if if if if if what we're doing is kind of like jazz not everything has to be have has to have the crack of a single right to the outfield right you know I mean it could be like a well-earned bunt right I mean yeah yeah and so it's it's good enough to stay in the lineup yes but it wouldn't lead off it couldn't

stand on its own. It couldn't stand on its own. And then I also have my inside voice where I can address the different things. That's usually a layer I put in at the end. Right, right. But I don't know. The whole process is so rewarding. And even when, you know, you're done writing a book and you put it up on your shelf, it's like that's like that moment. Yeah. It's, I think it's more impressive than some accolade. Do you know what I mean? Oh yeah, no, absolutely. What's interesting to hear you talk about going after the bourbon set is that your other stand-up, all your stand-up, it seems is pretty deliberate. Like, you're thinking I'm going to do horses or I'm going to dive into religion. I tend to, I feel like stumble into it. Yeah. Like, I'm talking about it. I'm talking about.

about what's going on with me now, and then that'll kind of open up a thing about weight or a thing about whatever, and you kind of like start going down those roots, and then at the end, it's become this thing. Right. It seems like you have a little bit more intent when you're starting to create the thing.

There is some intent, but like I would say that some of it is, um, uh, you know, it's, some of it is a little bit motivated by fear, you know? So in other words, it's, am I talking too much about my wife's brain tumor? You know, all right, you know what?

I'm going to see. You know what I mean? Or do people really want to hear? And some of it adds a playful element. But yeah, so the intent behind it, I would say, sometimes I land on the intent. Right. So it's not like I sit down there and I go, I'm going to do a three-minute story of me drinking bourbon with Jerry Seinfeld I'm going to do. Right. It's it is kind of, it's a scramble.

Right. It's some of it presents itself. Yeah, some of it presents itself. And some of it is I have to, some of it is assignment, like assignment in a different way because part of the project. If you're talking about bourbon and you find the stories so interesting, you probably should address some of the history. And so how some of the history is fictitious, not fictitious or just a stretching of the truth. Right, yeah. The Jerry story is very funny.

Oh, thanks. It's a... Wait a minute. All right, so you, I think you were supposed to be there. No, that was North Carolina. That was very funny. But that's where I got, like, the... the Canadian whiskey thing.

When you talk about Canadian whiskey, this is just a funny side story. You guys asked me to come on the tour with you guys to do a couple Canadian dates. And I got there and we did one, which was really fun. And then L.A. was on fire. L.A. was on fire. My wife was packing stuff up and making arrangements for it.

Like it was creeping over the hill. and we were on we never got to the point of being on fire but we were at whatever five alarm stuff was packed in the car and she was ready to go and she was freaking out and I had to leave and I came down in the morning to the lobby where we were having breakfast in the little hotel restaurant and as I'm there with your tour manager and my wife and I'm kind of on the I'm kind of at breakfast with you guys

yeah which is a Jerry tradition you have breakfast in the morning at 9 a.m., which we'll talk about that in a minute. And I'm trying to piece it together. And as I'm trying to piece together, my wife's panic and where the fire is and can I get home, you and Jerry are going over, you're doing bits about Canadian whiskey. And you guys are riffing about Canadian. And at one point, you turned or Jerry turned and said, this guy's, we're doing bits on Canadian whiskey. and this guy's house is on fire. It was such a funny comic moment of like, well, we can't help him.

So we might as well figure out the etymology of Canadian whiskey. Do you remember that moment? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, that's also where environment, you know, not to be insensitive to that story because that is so funny and how like, well, there's nothing I can do about it.

What do you think about? But I do think that some material traveling is really interesting because I think I had 10 minutes or maybe six or seven minutes. But it was a topic that I wanted to work on. Yeah. So we're in Canada. And obviously the Canadians know what bourbon is, but they have their own whiskey. And this is before the. trade war, you know, and all that.

Yeah. But the, you know, then it's really, then you're really, then you're essentially doing subway jokes in London. Right. Do you know what I mean? Like, you're a subway, huh? You know, like, that's the classic New York comedian. Like, yeah.

They go to Iowa and they talk about the subway and people in Iowa are like, what are you talking about? Yeah. Because also the liquor store thing, I think I was obsessed with liquor stores as a topic at that point. And they're all state run there or province run. Right. What was a cool thing to watch on that tour, it was the first time that you two were doing these big arenas together.

It was really just, you know, it's, this is why show business, I always say this is why show business works because even when you're in it, you're not aware of certain things. And I knew Jerry's act in like the long form of his act from working with him for so long. And I knew yours from your specials. but to watch in an arena environment, you still doing the very quiet, the very quiet gym delivery when you're in front of 20,000 people, I was like, there was no part of you that was like,

I have to up this performance to reach them in the back of here. It really kind of blew me away that you were able to, still just be quiet gym which is gym yeah was there

do you have to do you have to harness that or do you it helps a lot that the production the quality of production that exists in arenas now yeah it's so much better than 15 years ago you got the big screens you got the big screens it's an intimate thing

and some of it is audio but Some of it is facial, you know, like being able to see that, that kind of nuance of the eyes or the facial expression. And I don't, I mean, I think that's when people talk about clubs being like the purpose. It's like that's the intimacy in some ways. It's not even the proximity. It's being able to. But those big arenas, it's a different game. Yeah.

You know, it's just so. But you didn't change it. But that's what was so impressive. to me like there wasn't a part when i'm in a space like that is like i feel like i have to be bigger right and you were just like no i'm i'm gonna do it all in here yeah and i'm just gonna talk and well i also as if you were in a small club i mean even when i started in new york when i would get uh you know even initially when i would get nervous i would just get more quiet right which is counterintuitive but it works yeah

It's, but, you know, of course, it doesn't work for drunk people. Right, when they're yelling and screaming. You know. Yeah. What did you take away from the experience of touring with Jerry? Oh, gosh. I mean, I've always appreciated his comedy wisdom. Like, I think I jokingly will call him like Socrates or Aristotle.

Because there are these kind of like even though we just talked about how comedy is moving There's also these absolutes that remain you know where You know and Jerry's very much You know a believer in this it's just has to be funny You know I mean the hardest part like you know if a comedian does something that kind of manipulates the audience to like them I mean, Jerry's take would be, that's easy. Right. The hard part is the joke.

Right. But that's why they're here. They want the joke. They don't want the grandstanding. Yeah. They want the comedy. Yeah. You know, and so.

Is it funny? Yes. Yes. And, you know, as you know, it's just fun to, you know, you have like-minded comedians that have the joy. of discussing this process that it's never ending yeah yeah I mean that's why like before we even started I was like I'm always jealous whenever I look at my Instagram and I say oh he's talking I'd that'd be interesting to talk to her or him about stand up and figuring out process and I'm sure with some of them you're like oh there's no process right like they're just going up there and

it's a charm offensive yeah yeah and so just on the basic touring of it yeah yeah It was funny because Jerry has had his tour locked in with how he does it when he's out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And 9 o'clock breakfast. Yes. Movie after.

And then lunch. Then do. And you were like, I want to lay down. Yeah. No, I'm all about, I mean, my, I'm all about conserving. And maybe some of this goes back to just being tired from having a day job. and doing acting classes and stuff like that. And some of it is, but yeah, Jerry has, and I've heard he's not the only one.

There's a lot of people that they gather at 10 a.m. And they do an activity. Right. And which is fine. And I know you go to lunch often, but I'm kind of early. I will, I do an after, after the show, I'll take you to dinner. Right. That's my thing, which is not logical in some ways.

Yeah. Because you're usually eating at 11 o'clock at night. Yeah. It's not going to be a great sleep. Yeah, it's not going to be a great sleep. But my whole thing is, it's like, I'm usually wide awake anyway. Right. And, but then I, you know.

It's different energy. I mean, the thing, the thing when you're on, Torit Cherry, who's older than we are and he's running circles around you with the amount of energy that he has. Yeah. And it's really remarkable. I mean, he's also like one of the, you know, he can fast for 17 hours. Yeah, that's right. And he'll just be, he could sit at a buffet and be like, I'm not going to eat.

Like he's, I've decided I'm not going to. Or sit at the bar afterwards with you and be like, I'm just going to have half of this drink. Yeah. He's very disciplined. Yes. And the same way with his act. I mean, it's kind of what we were talking about before because he didn't. unplug and kept in it even at the height of his show and i think that he's also really evolved yeah i mean

like the material of him on the tonight show like you open the car the the hood of the car and you're looking for an on-off switch you know like that was the the the amount of intimacy the the audience expected in the 80s is completely different from the world we live in today where they're like, so are you married? Do you have kids? Right.

Where do you live? Like, you know, reveal something that you find annoying. They want to know more about you. But he bristles against that. Yes. But he still provides some of it. Yeah, exactly. Because he's talking about different subjects that kind of make it so.

But his eye is always on the is this a good joke yeah right there is nothing better than like talking about the minutia with him when also his of a joke and also i i mean there's things that he says that are very valid so the the the the the self-assignment of releasing a bourbon set within the you know obviously jury would be supportive but he was like if you waited to years it would be better jokes right why not just wait two years yeah and there's truth to that there is some some very much truth to that but there's where's your head in that because the the beast of you know the beast that is streaming and yeah people see stuff and devour content with such frequency

is that why you turn out more specials or is it because you just like to you're just on that pace I think I enjoyed the process. They're probably, like when I started doing theaters in 1901, and when I started doing theaters with the Marx brothers. There was an expectation that you can do it for a year or two. There was. And it would fall off. That it would, you'd probably be back at clubs.

But like, you can do theaters. for a year or two. So that led me to have this approach of, I'm going to keep going so that when it ends, I won't look back and go, God, I should have gone to, I should have gone to, you know, Alaska on my tour. I could have done in a theater in Alaska instead of a club.

And so I think because I had that approach that has kept me out there, Whereas I think, you know, like the self-imposed hiatus, you know, like Chris Rock takes like two years off. Yeah. And some of that is like I think maybe my mental health kind of like I need stand up. Yeah. But I think also there is fear of, you know, to steal a phrase from Happy Days. I still got it.

You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like I don't want to lose it. and um we're from breakfast club don't forget about me yeah yeah and whereas some people whenever chris has said you know you and i go but you're a comedy icon like yeah like chris rock is there's no doubt that he uh in the 90s bigger and black all those specials were undeniably the best the best do you know i mean and so and it had such an impact that Now he can take three years off with the confidence that when I do come back, I'm going to put it on sale and it's going to sell.

Same with Eddie Azard. You know, same with Ellen DeGeneres could come back. Yeah. And people would go. I hate to say it, but I think you're there too. Oh, well, that's very nice. But I don't trust anyone. I know you won't believe it.

No. They'll all go away. I mean, that's the other thing. It's like the amount of lying. maybe I'm so Midwestern but the amount of lying in the entertainment industry I really I still can't get used to it

What do you mean? Well just the like initially when you meet someone in the entertainment industry and they say oh I'm such a big fan Right The fact that they all say that And it's not an ins I'm not You know

Yeah Is that like It's the price of entry It's like saying good morning. The fact that they all say that, and they're being nice. Yeah. It just means like, oh, I can't believe anyone.

You know, and I'm not saying I want someone to go like, I'm not that much of a fan. Yeah, no. But you were good for one special. No. You know, like, I don't want that, but like there's such. Yeah, just lie to me. Yeah.

But yeah, but you kind of have to. monitor it yourself yeah absolutely yeah uh the hulu one was last christmas around yeah or thanksgiving thanksgiving i don't know one of those it was everywhere i remember yeah that was very good i remember getting to uh yeah oh hair and there was a giant you flying oh in that giant screen yeah no it must have been thanksgiving because that poster was uh a thanksgiving parade art kind of uh oh oh oh Right, right, right, right. And this one is coming out right on the, as we're getting into Thanksgiving.

It's kind of a nice area for you. Well, I mean, there is, some of that was, I find that, you know, there is, you want stuff that you can watch with people. I mean, I'm talking about a bourbon set. I'm not like saying, hey, get the kids. Time for some alcohol education. But I think that there is a downtime. Yeah. During those holiday weekends that we think, oh, we're going to be watching football.

We're going to be hanging out with our aunt. We need something. No, you're still looking at each other going, what are we going to watch? Yeah. Or, you know, it's like maybe it's good. If you're married, you might be like, you want to watch this or this. Yeah. You know, it's a, if you could be one of the options.

Yeah. Or like, if your spouse is asleep, maybe you'll watch this on YouTube. Right. You know what I mean? And crack open some. bourbon yes so where are you at now like when you go up and do spots are you bourbon free or i try to you know that's the other thing is i try to separate um you know so you were doing other sets at the same time you're doing the bourbon set yeah working on other stuff i yeah i mean

well because this is like a little project so yeah the bourbon set if i was in a city and you know there would be if i'm doing an hour show yeah Often it would only be at most, you know, if it was in like Atlanta or Indianapolis, where I felt like it was a bourbon-friendly environment, I felt like I could do maybe 25 to a half an hour of bourbon or alcohol material. Right. But otherwise, it was like, you know, and I can't even think of what market. I wouldn't, I wouldn't subject them. You know, they'd be like, why is he talking about this? You know what I mean? It's like we we drink mojitos here.

We're in San Diego. So, but now I'm trying to separate myself from it. Yeah. But yeah, it's weird because there's the material you have. And then. And what's weird about it is you're kind of talking about when you're working on two different projects. Like there'll be when you are writing a book, you have the book writing. Yes.

At the same time when you're doing the writing for the act. they're existing but you know that one's going in this bushel and one's going in this one's going in this one and you go out and do this but what's weird about this is both projects are stand-up yes that's what's that's pretty unique that's it's very weird because there is something of uh when you do a show as you know you want the whole experience to have some semblance of organization yeah right and yeah and there is So there's also like I put parameters on where I can talk about my kids a certain amount, but I understand there are some people that in the audience that don't have children. Right.

So it's like if they don't drink bourbon and they don't have children, are they going to remain on board? But that's where, I mean, but that's the panic behind it. Yeah. Right. You sit there and you go, I've got, all right, I know that, you know, in talking to friends about being a parent, the material is going to come there. Right, right. I have to, where's this other stuff? Yeah.

And, yeah. I mean, are you, what exposes you to, there's finding a topic that's very exciting. How do you find topics? Oh. Are you consuming books? like do you rationalize scrolling like maybe this will help yeah scrolling doesn't usually do it because it's so uh there's there's so much behind it and it's also not unique we're all kind of at the same spot i do find that the more

and stephen king always talks about this the more he reads the better he's writing and i do really find that i do find that what if i'm reading uh anything fiction nonfiction mostly fiction really mostly fiction yeah because it's the human condition it's you know and it's also developing characters and story right yeah right exactly whereas with history you can just be like on 1812 right right right and this is more of what it is to wake up in the morning and stand with a glass of water and looking out the sink window yeah And just having that moment of joy or dread. Are there authors that you've read where you're like,

this guy would have been a great stand-up? Garrison Keeler was a little bit of a stand-up. Yeah. And he called himself a humorist. Yeah. But he was hitting the points of observational real-life stuff. Yeah. And he had a pretty pronounced point of view.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, one of my giants is John Updike. Yeah. And he's so on point. Like, he'll introduce you to thoughts that you've had that you didn't know you had about whatever. Right.

That are just so deep and so, like, I mean, talk about observational, about the human condition. It's just, like, so much that way. Well, this was great. We're never ending. I know. You know, I could just keep on going. No.

I think they need the studio. Of course. This is such a great layout. Yeah. This is, we're here. serious xm and they created this space which is just so great when i'm in new york right it's it feels it feels yeah professional doesn't feel like uh a filthy couch right exactly yeah no it's fantastic well congratulations it's really good it was good it was fun picking your uh fun picking your brain

about all of it thanks so much because uh as soon as these mics are away we got to go back to just talking about nonsense right all right thanks jimmy BATI-D-BIN-B-B-D-B-D-B-D-B-B-D...