Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 297 - Connie Britton

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

This week Connie Britton joins us at the table! She and Tom reminisce about their time in New York, becoming friends, industry success, and of course, raising children. Enjoy! Our thanks to: Factor! Eat smart at FactorMeals.com/papa50off and use code papa50off to get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year. Squarespace! Head to https://www.squarespace.com/PAPA to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code PAPA Mint Mobile! Turn your expensive wireless present into a huge wireless savings future by switching to Mint. Shop Mint Unlimited Plans at mintmobile.com/BREAKINGBREAD. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Take the stress out of shopping and find coverage that fits your life on your terms. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Eddie'd been working on the movie. It took us eight months to shoot it. Like we shot it literally on weekends, like at his parents' house and Island like whenever he could afford to shoot it took so long and then he was like trying to like piece it together and like edit it together and he was working on entertainment tonight and they were I guess interviewing Redford and he ended up Eddie ended up in an elevator with Redford and he's like Mr. Redford I'm an independent filmmaker and I have this VHS copy of my rough cut of my movie would you take a look at it?

And I later heard the same story from Redford, and he was like, and I don't know why. I mean, I don't know why I would take this kid's movie. I was doing entertainment and I hate doing that shit. You know, like, it was like so amazing to hear from him. Yeah. Because I remember when Eddie said, so you guys, I gave the movie to Robert Redford

and I burst into tears. Wow. Because I was like, Robert Redford is going to see me act. I'm so terrible. I don't know what I'm doing. And Robert, like, first of all, like, how, like, the fact that I'm worried about what Robert read from things of me.

Right, yeah. You know. But my hair was horrible. Right, I know. It's like, God, I wish I had been better. I just don't know what I'm doing yet. It's breaking bread. So good to see you.

So good to see you, too. I don't know if the world knows how good of friends we are. I don't know if the world should we tell them? Go ahead. Well, we've known each other since 9. Is it 19? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Because we met through Jen. Right. And I stayed for a period of time in your apartment in New York. You did? Yeah, in Chelsea. Oh. And you guys weren't there. Right.

But Jen was there. Right. And that was in the 1990 somethings. Like 98, 99. Yeah. Because that's when I started. Because Cynthia was living there. Right.

I lived there with Jen years ago. And then I moved in. Mm-hmm. Right, so probably like 98, 99. Wait, but you guys were still, well, you guys were married then now. No. Well, we were married in 2000.

Oh. Right. So maybe you were in right before like 99. Yes. I was in way before, actually. So that was officially. Well, way before me then. Before you maybe.

That was probably, you probably knew Cynthia first because her and Jen were right, right, right, right. That's so funny. I didn't realize you were the freeloader who came in later. I'm the new guy. You were the new guy. Yeah. Wow, we've known each other for a long time. I know a really long time.

Right. Well, you know, and Jen, who I know you through Jen. Right. Is Jen Josten, who I knew from the Brothers McMullen. Exactly. Which is like what we're actually talking about today, but the thing that's funny is that So that was like 1995. We were both in that movie.

Is that when you became pals? And that's how I met her. That's when we became pals. Yeah. Right. And so, and then everything, our lives changed so much because that movie was kind of a big break thing. What a big deal. And so, yeah.

And so we kind of like, I moved out to L.A. for a little bit. From that? Was Spin City before that? Spin City was after that. Was after that? Everything was after the brothers. Like the Brothers McMillan was like really like the, my, the quintessential big break for me, for all of us. Like, you know.

Was it hard to get the role? The Brothers McMillan? Yeah. I mean, here's how I think it was hard to get the role. It was cumulatively hard to get the role because getting the role of the brothers McMullen was preceded by years of doing the same thing, which was buying backstage magazine. Remember backstage magazine? Of course. Buying backstage magazine.

Like you'd have a whole, like a newsprinty thing in your hand. It's a newspaper. Yeah. And then stapling my picture to the back of resumes. Yep. And like stacks, stacks of pictures and resumes and stacks. And stacks of like manila envelopes. Yep.

And I would go through the backstage magazine and be like, oh, we're looking for the fourth back dancer for this off-Broadway musical. And you could send your picture and resume in or whatever. Or the ad that was in for what became the Brothers of Bill and was probably like looking for probably a student film, no money. Right. And, you know, but I answered all of them. And just, yeah, and get, then take all your envelopes to the post office.

And send them all out. Yeah. And just hope. And you send them to the actually, you actually put them in the post office. And then it's like some, and then somebody calls you. And did you have a service? Somebody calls you on your service? Did you ever do that?

I mean, it was kind of like a voicemail service. I must have had. I don't even know if I actually had a service. Yeah. I feel like I had a service for like one second. And then remember how we had like beepers? That was the first. That was like the first thing.

That was like the first thing. Get a little beeper. Yeah. And then you call your agent and you can go in and read for razzles. Right. But, you know, of course, at this time, I had no agent. Right. I had no agent.

Right. You were your own. I had no connection to anybody at all, anywhere in the business of show. So when you walk into audition for Brothers McMullen, did you get it right away? Were there a bunch of callbacks? The thing is, so I got a call from this kid. Hey, can you come in and audition on some? Sunday afternoon

because we're going to Is that your knuckles? Yeah, sorry, there's, hence enough. Is this stressing you out? My story? It reminded me in my own because it's struggling. I was like, what was that?

The first one I was like, maybe that was the system. No, that was me. I was freaking out over here. These are hard times. It's hard times. It's all worked out. It works out.

It's like great. Keep, keep going, you know, keep going. Take some deep breaths. You know, yeah. Breathe through the knuckles. Read through. On a Sunday.

Yeah, so I was visiting my sister for the weekend who lived in D.C., my sister, Cynthia. Right. And I was like, I don't know. Maybe do I go back in time for this? like audition and I was like, I guess so. So I took a train that would get me back in time. And I literally went straight from Penn Station dragging my suitcase to this office building

and audition. And then Eddie, like, I read this role. And then Eddie, like, came running out after me. And he's like, can you please play the part? We please play the part. Really? Right away. Yeah.

And then I was like, this is going to really suck. Because he wants me so bad. Like, if they're, if he's like desperate for me to be. This is going to be bad. This is going to be terrible. This is going to be real. I mean, this is going to be the lowest of low budget, whatever. Yeah.

But what an interesting little thing though. I know. That if, you know, just being a smidge different. Right. Being in D.C. and be like, let's just stay. Let's have brunch. Yeah. Let's not, I don't have to go back for it.

It's just an independent thing. It's like because it's one of like 200 that I've already done in the last five months that I haven't gotten. So why? But you're just hungry enough where you're like, let's go. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. I know.

Isn't that fun? And then it was like, you know, and don't you remember? I mean, I remember those days, those early days, like in New York. Like there's something about just having like a driving dream that it adds this kind of electricity to life. And even though we really didn't have anything else, and we're all like working day jobs and there's like no vision of the future. Yeah.

It was like a really fun time. Like that's when I met Lauren Graham too. Right. That same period, you know, from acting class. Oh, really? Yeah. And we would just like, we were doing a scene in acting class and we would like meet on Sunday

and like we were playing two characters who were supposed to get drunk. So of course we like opened a bottle of champagne and got drunk like while we rehearsed. Yeah. You know, and like with the brothers McMullen, like he, He didn't have film stock most of the time. So we would just get together at 10 o'clock at night after everybody was done with their day jobs and like sit around and drink beers and just like talk about the scenes and stuff. It was just like a fun time where you were just creating for the sake of creating.

Yeah. Just happy to do it. You're close to being able to say I'm an actor. Right. Right. That was it. Or trying to envision what that even means. And it's just so exciting that you're with other creative people and you're doing this thing.

And you have no money. You have zero money. No, and not at all. I always talk about when, if I had, if you told me, right now, go back to living the way that I did in the beginning. Yeah. Making like $5 a night at the comic strip. And sleeping on a futon with my friend with no doors in the apartment, like right next to me. Yeah.

I would probably just lie down on the ground and die. But when it was happening, I was so excited and happy. Yeah. Yeah. It was like you were figuring it out. Like you were making your way. Yeah. I mean, really, I look back at those times and there was like this lightness to it.

Like I hope people now, the world has changed so much. Like now I feel like an old lady like all the time. Do you feel like an old person all the time? Like the world has changed so much. I don't know how people function. Yeah, somewhat. I do. I mean, watching my daughter go through this stage right now.

Yeah, which one? And she's with the starting out in New York. She's got her friends. They're starting a production company. They're just hustling and they've got this energy and they just do all this stuff. Lena. Lena. Yeah.

There's she does, she has all of that. Yeah. There is a little difference, I think, where you're headed. There is a little heaviness of what's the world. What's the world? In the 90s, it was, there was a lightness. Yeah. We weren't touched yet by the things that happened in the rest of the world.

Right. And there is a definitely, the gloom that we, everybody, kind of feels is kind of hanging over a little bit. Yeah. Not so much where it defeats the young people. They're like going. I know. I really, it's funny because now I look at them and I see that they're still going.

Yeah. And they still have this, whatever this drive is or this sort of like energy to like carry out a vision for themselves. Yeah. And I'm like, wow, that is so impressive that they can do that. Yeah. Given what the world is right now. Mm-hmm.

But, you know, I guess we had our own version of that, too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at that time, you know, the thing about the brothers McMullen and, you know, Eddie Burns, who made that movie. Yeah. Was 24 years old when he wrote it. Wow. And the reason he wrote it is because he, like, he was a film student.

He loved film. He, like, was, he's always been such a student of film. Was he NYU? And I think he was NYU. I think so. Boredom? I don't know. I don't see him being USC.

I don't know. No, I don't see that. I don't see that. But it could have been Fordham though. But he was just like, he would watch movies and be like, I don't see anybody speaking the way my friends and I speak to each other when I go to movies or when I watch TV. Yeah. Which is what prompted him to write the movie. But I love that in that time, he thought he had the audacity to think that that was worth. doing, you know? Like, I love that. I'm just going to make it. Yeah. And by the way, that was a very, that moment in time, 1995 was a real kind of, um, a real opening time for independent film. It was special. It was a special time. Like that was sort of when Sundance was really doing what Sundance was set, what Robert Redford set out to do. Right. With Sundance and he, you know,

I'm, Soderberg and all of that. I mean, because you remember just as a fan. Yeah. You would, you'd be aware of, like, all the big films that were coming out, but you also were eagerly awaiting what's the independent film that's coming out. Yeah, and it was exciting. Like, it was, like, people, like, in a way, like, this sort of, like, small specificity of those independent films and people talking to each other.

And, like, it was, it was exciting to see that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's an interesting thing now because you actually can make films, technically easier now. Yeah. Right? I mean, I could take my phone.

I mean, I have friends that have shot stuff on their phone. Like, you can go after it. But there's something a little different about the environment or the way it's distributed or, you know what I mean? I do know what you mean. And that's interesting because I think, well, I think that's where we're sort of in struggle with ourselves around like, you know, the great filmmakers are still saying we need to have cinematography. We need to make films that are meant to be seen in theaters. And yet we have an entire generation of people who are, as you're saying, like shooting it on their phones or

doing it for a YouTube channel. Yeah. Right. And so it's like there's a, there's a different value system around the cinematic nature of storytelling. Maybe it's the volume. Like you, there's so much. Yeah. So many different. Like, back then when you are looking for a film it was like well you got your films and you got your set amount of television yeah there wasn't a plethora of stuff so there was like a it would feel a little more special right if you were to break through and actually get the thing made and get it out there yeah and redford was the i mean with sundance that's what broke it right that's what broke it yeah well and there's an amazing story that you know has been told now many times but i had the great fortune of hearing

this story first from Ed Burns and then later from Robert Redford who told me like his version of this side of the story but which was like you know Eddie had been working on the movie we took us eight months to shoot it like we shot it literally on weekends like at his parents house in Long Island like whenever he could afford to shoot it took so long and then he was like trying to like piece it together and like edit it together and he was working on entertainment tonight and they were I guess interviewing Redford and he ended up Eddie ended up in an elevator with Redford and he's like Mr. Redford I'm an independent filmmaker and I have this VHS copy of my rough cut of my movie would you take a look at it and I later heard the same story from Redford and

he was like and I don't know why I mean I don't know why I would take this kid's movie I was doing entertainment and I hate I hate doing that shit you know like it was like so amazing to hear from him. Yeah. Because I remember when Eddie said, so you guys, I gave the movie to Robert Redford and I burst into tears.

Wow. Because I was like, Robert Redford is going to see me act. I'm so terrible. I don't know what I'm doing. Like, first of all, like how, the fact that I'm worried about

what Robert Redford things of me. Right, yeah. You know. My hair was horrible. Right. I know. It's like, God, I wish I had been better.

I just don't know what I'm doing yet. But, yeah, and so, and then Redford, I guess, gave it to somebody at Sundance. Sundance. And he, but he later said, you know, he's like, that's what I wanted Sundance to be about. Like, I really wanted it to be about those kinds of, like, small films. And then the crazy thing that happened. So it got into the Sundance Film Festival, but the crazier thing that happened, which was the biggest surprise and it was really right at the end of the festival,

was that the movie won the grand jury prize at the Sundance Film Festival, which was like, we didn't even think that, we didn't know what the grand, we didn't know that that existed. Yeah, that that was a thing. And so that was like, did you get to go?

Were you guys able to? Yeah, we, well, it was funny because I had, at that time, during Sundance, I had just gotten, I booked my first commercial ever for catchphrase. Catchphrase. Yeah, I remember the game? Catchphrase. Yeah, kind of.

I remember hearing it, but I don't remember the game. Really? Yeah, I don't even know if it still exists. What was your part in the, were you playing the game? I was playing the game. It was me and a number of people. I don't know if you can still find it. Yeah. But listen, it was a big deal to book a commercial in those days because you could make big money.

Yeah. So I booked my first commercial and it was during Sundance and I was like, oh gosh, I don't know. I don't know if I can. And I was like, but I can't not do the commercial. So I did the commercial and I went to Sundance. like I got there like the day before the last day or something. Right. And like, so I was able to go see a screening of the movie because I don't think I'd even see, I've not seen even seen the movie.

So I went and saw a screening the movie at Sundance and then the next day was the award ceremony and they were like, they were going to have us sit like in some like, you know, overflow room, you know, or whatever. And then. Right. And then at the last minute, they were like, you know what, we're going to get you went to the main the main theater.

And so they put, like we were all, like the cast that was there, we were all in the very, very last row of the theater and we're sitting there and they go through. And we thought maybe we might win

the audience award, but we didn't win the audience award. And I was like, okay, it's fine, it's fine. Like we never expect it. Of course not. Of course not.

And then they announced a grand jury prize and it was, and I remember vaccine bonds who, was Eddie's girlfriend at the time and like plays his girlfriend in the movie, turned to me and she goes, I don't think our lives are ever going to be the same again. And it was one of those moments where it's like, it was so big.

Whoa, everything just changed really dramatically. God, it was big. I mean, it had huge impact. Huge impact at that time. Yeah. And what was cool is it was a huge impact like the, in the, in broad terms, in mainstream terms. Yeah.

But it was also. So this independent cool, it still had the cool factor too. Yes. It had people like looked at you all as like the cool kids. Right. It wasn't like a sellout to make it big. Right. It was that combination.

It was the opposite of that. Yeah. Yeah. And we had like such, I mean, we were just like genuinely like naive and kind of just like, okay. What do we do? Yeah. Yeah.

There's actually this awesome, I should send it to you, there's this awesome. some video of me and Jen. Oh, yeah. Justin. And it was, I think, after Sundance, I think then we had a proper premiere in New York. And it was us like doing an interview outside the premiere. And I mean, Tom, like, I have to send it to you.

You'll be like, oh, my, we were such little babies. We were so, like, wide-eyed. Like, I mean, it's just really good. great just to be here like playing with our hair like wearing like you know ill-fitting dresses that were too skimpy and like you know just like it's just really exciting I don't know I mean like literally clueless it's so great it was really great if I find it I'll send that to you wow that's so great that's so great that what a great story yeah and now uh I just watched last night oh you did I watched it yeah it's it's really sweet it's really sweet it's really kind of

fun. It's really sweet. It's coming out this time of year. Which is good. It doesn't even, there's nothing really holiday. Well, except for the Thanksgiving. There's two Thanksgiving. And we're going to the bar like at that time of year. Right, right, right. But it doesn't, it's not really heavy. It's, it's not really a holiday movie, but the timing of it is I was, I was, it took me 16 hours to get home last night from Michigan after my last show of the year. Oh, God. And I watched it in the lounge on my way. Stop. And I just want to get home.

I just want to be home. I just want to go back to whatever my life is. And watching it, it's the sweetness of it of home and all that. And seeing all the characters again after all this time, it was very, it was a homecoming. Yeah. For me, watching it in a lounge, you know, depressed. Yeah. But for you, it must have been a hell of a homecoming.

Have you ever, have you ever revisited it? a role like that? We'd like to thank the good people at Quince for sponsoring today's program. If you spend a lot of time cooking at home, it's time to elevate your game. When your cookware actually feels good to use and is thoughtfully made and looks beautiful on your counter, it just makes the whole experience better. That's what I've really liked about Quince. Their cookware, knives, and tableware are elevated, but they're still super practical. Everything is made to last, designed to be seen, and honestly, priced way more reasonably than you'd expect for that kind of quality. It just makes everyday cooking feel a little more special. Quince has a really

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I don't think so. I mean, I went back and played my character from American Horror Story, like, for an episode. But it wasn't like that. Like, it wasn't. But there is something very interesting about going back 30 years later and imagining where that character would be. Yeah. Especially because there was such a like naivete both in who we were 30 years ago. Like it was interesting as an actor to like relate to that because it's like I know how different I was and my life was 30 years ago.

Yeah. And so like equating that to that character and then to who that character would be now is fun. is fun, you know, it's fun to like. And your natural life brings a lot to it because you lived for 30 years as a human being. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So that was, that was really fun. And just it's funny, the, like, the whole family part of it, like being with Eddie and McGlone, like Eddie's voice is so distinct. Like, all those characters, it's like so distinctive and it just like comes right back. Like for me, I was like, oh, that's just in my bones now because it was such an important thing at that time.

Yeah, he's so distinct. Yeah. So just a sidebar to him as a filmmaker. Yeah. After the first one came out, it was 95. 95, yeah. During 9-11, everyone especially New York was reeling, everyone's reeling. Everyone's reeling.

And a bunch of, a couple directors put out little videos to kind of like give people hope. And he did one to Lovely Day, which wasn't really, I mean, it was a hit, but it wasn't played as much in ads and things as it is now. He just put together this, it was just people holding hands in New York, walking down the street to the soundtrack of Lovely Day. But it was in his hands that it just had so much weight to it. And as a New Yorker at that time,

it was like somebody give us some kind of hope. Yeah. That really stuck with us. Oh, my God, that makes me want to cry. Oh, me too. Yeah, he has such an incredible heart. And he does have like an amazing, way of tapping into that world that he knows so well.

His dad was a cop, the New York police officer. And so, like, that was a huge part of his life. Yeah, yeah. And so I can only, I really want to see that. Yeah, it's just a short thing. It's just the length of the song or maybe even shorter. Yeah. But it had such impact.

Just it was like, oh, yeah, the little things. It's this thing. And we're okay here. We're going to be okay here. Yeah. It really was really unique. Was it, was it, was it, trippy being back on set and having him direct or like I mean because now you know he has a budget

and you're all stars and it's like you could just kind of you weren't struggling you shot this probably in a month yeah I mean I think I went in on the shop for four days right I mean it was like a real budget and the thing I know that was that part was it was weird kind of like sort of rectifying all that like It's kind of like, oh, this is, because I wanted to sort of tap into just that original kind of like, we're doing it for the love of storytelling. Yeah. Which is what the Brothers Macmillan was. Like, it's really interesting, especially the way the world is now, to think about really doing something absolutely without any agenda. Mm-hmm.

You know, when we were shooting the original movie, we couldn't have any agenda. because there was no promise of anything other than maybe we would get a little scene for an envisioned film reel that we hoped to have and used to get more auditions or something. Yeah, yeah. And so there was no other reason to do it other than you love to do it and you love to tell stories and you love to like play. Yeah. And so I was really kind of when we went back to do this, I was like, oh, I want to, I want, like, it's a good reminder because that's what I always want to. want it to be anyway. Yeah. So it's a good reminder like, okay, I want to really tap into just the, all the, the fundamentals of what I love about telling stories. Right, right. And what I love

about these characters and the complexity. Could you though? And yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, there's got to be a sense of it. Yeah, like I actually, even as I'm saying that, I'm kind of like, well, I try to do that really in everything that I do. Like, yeah, I try to be as like, sort of present and like, I don't know. I just, I try not to let it be about all the other bullshit that it ends up being about. Right. You know? Right.

Because like that's not, at the end of the day when you're, when you're just playing a scene or in a moment or something, it's like it has nothing to do. Yeah. With bottom lines and, you know. Yeah. What this role is going to be and all that other stuff. Well, allow me to use that little segue to say something I would never say to you when we're, just hanging out at your house or whatever,

you're an amazing actor. You're so good. Stop, Tom Papa. Really? You're so good and so natural. And like I couldn't say it to when we were just hanging out because it would be uncomfortable. But as an interviewer now, you're so good. And there's a reason you haven't stopped working all this time.

It's remarkable. Oh, that means so much to me. Really. You're so real. and you're just so delicately able to, gracefully, able to switch and do things on camera that it's very endearing and watching it as an actor. It's so impressive. Watching it just as a fan, you're very, you bring people in because you're just effortless. You're so good. How did you get so good?

Was it Dartmouth? Did you study in Dartmouth? No, it wasn't Dartmouth. Was it just hustling in? York. Did you study? You did study with, um, you know who I studied with who was my, my greatest teacher, which is where I met, uh, Lauren, Tiffany. We were all in this, Asif, Mambi. Right. We were all in this acting class together with Win Hanman. Winhamman at Carnegie Hall. Right. And he was my great teacher, you know. Right. I mean, I had many other teachers before that,

but like he was the one that was like, oh, this, I'm learning how to, Really? How to act. Yeah. And, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I do think there was something about, I do actually think doing the Brothers McMullen and there was a naturalism. The authenticity of the heart of that movie originally, that sort of set a bar for me

in terms of like, oh, this is how I want to work. I love working with. a writer director who is willing to share, not only share their vision and also allow you to be a part of this, they're the ones creating the vision. And it's great when it's a writer-director because there, you know, it's all, that part's all merged. There's no conflict between the writing and then what the director's vision is.

It's like that is all part of the same thing. And then Eddie was always like, what would you say here? You know, he was so collaborative. And that really set up. I was able to discover an authenticity and like an integrity to working that way. Yeah, yeah. Because it was just like I wanted so, I wanted to just like be really like honest.

Yeah. And real. Yeah. And there was a naturalism to that that I think he helped me discover and explore. and, you know, and listen, that is still my favorite way of working. Friday Night Lights, same thing. Yeah. Like that was Pete Berg wrote and directed the movie Friday Night Lights.

Yeah. And then wrote and directed the pilot. He worked the same way. He would like let us, he would like want to improvise. He would change scenes. He would like mix it up. Right. He's like, it's all about discovery.

It's all about, you know, curiosity. Like, what would you do now? Let's, like, raise the stakes, like, whatever. Yeah. In the moment. Like, so it's spontaneous and it's in the moment. And even as we were shooting the TV show and like Pete Berg wasn't there all the time, we were still, that was, that was, that was, we were, we held dear to that.

Right. Right. Right. And so, and that's, I still think it's the best way to work. And listen, there are certain things that are more. stylized that are more that are a different kind of style and you have to like adapt and but I do think that some of the fundamentals of working that way yeah I then can like I try to like transfer into different stylistic you can carve it out wherever you yeah whatever they put you in

yeah yeah which shows like you have a real style yeah you have your own way of being yeah yeah it might win from that from that first commercial right I think it was The catchphrase commercial? Yeah. I wonder if anybody's going to go out and buy catchphrase. I just picture them at some point, you're yelling catchphrase. Catchphrase.

I think somebody does yell catchphrase. Yeah, I would think so. Listen, for sure somebody yells something. I don't know what it is, but I mean, for sure they yell something. Yeah. Catchphrase. Catchphrase. Yeah, so.

But I feel, I feel so. fortunate. You've never not worked. I don't think you've had a break. No, I haven't. I've had to force, if I've forced myself to take a break. Yeah. Then, then I will take a break. But like, I do, I really love to work. And it's hard, you know, it's harder now with the kid. Because everything shoots out of town. Right. And I am a single mom and I want to be home with him. Yeah. Like, he needs someone at a rise. You know what I mean? I know, but he's only going to want to be with you for four more years.

I know. So it's a limited time. Yeah. He's, I mean, really three and a half at this point. But I remember when you got Nashville. Yeah. You kind of transplanted the whole enterprise. I transplanted the whole enterprise.

Right. But that was a thing where I just didn't know what I was doing. Like, I was just, I had just adopted Yobi and brought him home. And then Nashville happened. And I had been making decisions the same way my entire life. Right. And like for that time, like business decisions the same way my whole career. I didn't understand that maybe I needed to tweak the way I was making my decisions because now I had a kid.

Yeah. So I was like, oh, this, okay, this could be a cool opportunity. And like, you know, I'd get to sing. It's a great part. And like really great people, you know, attached to it. Like, so yeah, we're going to just pick up and go to Nashville. Yeah. Because that's what I did that for Friday in a life.

We went and moved to Austin. Best experience ever. Yeah. But it turned out. moving to Nashville with a one-year-old baby that I had been with for like five months. Yeah. It was crazy. I remember that.

Remember you came and visited? It was like, it was really crazy. Yeah. Did Edy go with you? Didn't Eadie go with you? Oh, that's right. We got Eidie from you guys. Eadie came with us.

Eidie came with you. She lived with us that first, the first season of Nashville. She was, do you ever see her? We text, but we haven't seen her in a bit. Because now she works, she's moved on and she works with Sarah Aubrey. Oh, right. Who she's worked with now for 10 years probably. 10 years.

Yeah. Like Sarah's like you can't. Sarah Aubrey got her to drive. Oh, oh, yeah. Remember she wouldn't drive. She would always take those taxis late at night. Yeah. She would take these sketch taxis.

Edie drives now. Eadie drives now. Eadie drives now. Eid is an angel just for anyone that's, it's an angel that we just happen to meet in Los Angeles who is like, take any great grandmother, mother-in-law, wrap it all up and best friend. Yeah. And have her just stay with your babies.

Baby whisper. She's a baby whisperer, but now she's like, she's also an adult whisperer. Yeah, right. She was amazing. But I remember when she went to Nashville because we were like, oh, no, because we didn't really need her anymore. The kids were getting older, but we just wanted her in her life all the time. Yeah.

And then she had to go to Nashville for your dumb show. I know. I was so mean, but also so generous of you. Yeah, that's true. Let me have her. Yeah. But really, yeah, I remember running through at that time. We ran into each other at the airport.

And I was just like buzzing into New York and you were leaving and you had, I think, Edy and Yobi and stuff and just like so much stuff. And I was like, I didn't even want to stop and talk to you because I knew that airport mom thing is just so intense. I know. It was, that was an intense time for short. Also, because that show was really challenging. I mean, for me, it was like, oh, my God, I'm singing. I'm having to, like, figure that out and, like, perform, like, doing concerts. It was a big deal.

And then I just was like, I'm supposed to be raising this child. Like, how do I do that? It was very challenging. But, like, thank God for Edie. Like, she was the saving grace. Yeah. So funny. I have this recollection.

one time. Like I'd been working so hard and like Yobi and all the things. And like one time like I was in, it was like, it was towards the end of the season in Nashville. And I like met some guy. And I like went out on a date with this guy.

And like, you know, it was like the first time that I had had like any sort of, any like adult moment. Yeah. And I remember coming home and like the next morning, Edie came in with flowers and she goes, springtime for mommy. I was like, oh, yeah, you are.

She would do that with us too. Yeah. Yeah. I remember her one time just coming over and being like, just getting our vibe in the morning. And she said to Cynthia, daddy's very happy today. We're like, we just got a good night's sleep. I don't know. It's so funny.

Like she, it's like she seems like it's going to be like your mom. and it's like, oh, I don't want to tell her. But it's the opposite. She's like, oh, who. She's really special. She's amazing. Yeah. So, yeah, you'll have like four more years.

Like, he's in his teens now and you've done a great job. Yeah. And, you know, did you realize that being a single mom isn't that hard? It's pretty easy, right? Yeah, it's so easy. Oh, my God. I was really like, nobody warned me. Like, how was I supposed to know?

Yeah. Frankly, even if somebody- Well, how do you know? There's no way. And by the way, being a parent is so challenging. You've no idea. And being a working parent is so challenging. Yeah.

You know, period. Yeah. But. To keep pulling both off. To keep pulling both off. Is very unusual. And when you're like the sole kind of person for that kid or your kids to go to, it's like, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a heavy burden.

Heavy lift. I mean, you could, someone could tell you and you could relate to how much physical work it's going to be. Like, you're going to have to do these meals and you're going to have to do this bedtime, you're going to have to do this drive to the school and all that. Which you can't prepare for is the emotional weight and fear and hope. Yes. Of, uh, having another human life attached to you.

You cannot. There's no way. There's no way. That's what I was saying with like if somebody had warned me. It's like you can't, you can't fathom it. No. Like you can't understand. I do remember like one of the biggest things I remember when I first adopted Yobi was suddenly recognizing that I, like all of my time is spent figuring out what I need. Right. And now I need to figure out like and now I need to figure out what an entire other human. human being needs who I don't, I can't even figure out what they need because they can't speak, they can't articulate it and they can't do shit for themselves. And so suddenly I'm like, wait, how do, where do I find the space for that? So now suddenly it's like, it's like, I can't, I can do either one or the other. Yeah. And it was like, yeah, that was a huge, huge, you don't really know that until you experience it. I thought, whatever's coming our way, I'm still going to be able to have my

coffee and read the paper before the day starts. Right. I know it's going to be hard. I know all the rest. I didn't realize I would never see a newspaper for 18 years. No, no. You will not. You will not.

And you wouldn't be drinking coffee out of like some to go container that's like still dirty from the day before because you're like, you're having to deal with whatever they need, wherever they're going. Yeah. I know, I know. But they're the best though. Yeah. You think it's worth it? Yeah.

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and now back to the show i have a couple questions for you okay because uh you are i'd like to say that you are a you're very thoughtful and morally sound you well not in all aspects but but in uh in you're politically involved yeah you look for um injustice you don't you do not suffer uh injustice for others uh you're very um you're in you're in tune and you're correct uh so i want to run a couple things by you and see how you'd respond. Okay. Oh, God. I'm scared. No, don't be scared. Okay. Is it okay to steal things at the self-checkout? You're at self-checkout. You're scanning, and for some reason this one just didn't go and it's already in the bag side and you see that it's maybe hasn't been logged. You know what? Here's my thing. I don't do the self-checkout because that is

way too complicated and technical. And I was just home for Thanksgiving with my cousin. And she was like, we went to the self-checkout. And both Yobi and I were like trying to like figure out how it works and like how in, she goes, oh my God, give me that.

You don't do the self-checkout? This is the I would die without if I if I had to deal with a human being at the thing. And I'm like, what are you talking about? So, you know, my limited capacities for the self-checkout, I do I do think, I don't think it's morally correct to steal something from the self-checkout.

But I do think it's kind of fun to think about the fact that you could. And sometimes things happen by accident. Like, I'm not one of those, like, I don't think I've actually ever, like, I wasn't one of those kids that, like, stole, like, you know, good and plenies from the 7-Eleven. No, never. No, never, never. I was too scared. I was too scared. I was like, you can't do that.

Yeah. You're criminal. But meanwhile, my best friend would steal, like, what? Sugar Daddies. No. I don't know. She was just for fun. And, like, I realize, like, a lot of kids, like, do that just for fun.

Just for fun. I don't know what that's about, but, yeah. I stole a little when I was a kid, but I got caught early. Yeah? Yeah. I got caught stealing bubble yum. Oh, well, that's worth stealing. And the guy put me in the stock room.

And I had to sit there as he was, uh, calling my dad. Oh, God. And that was it. That was the end of my career. Yeah. God, what'd your dad do? He wasn't as mad as I thought.

I think he was just more annoyed he had to come down there. Right. You know? Well, isn't that funny now that you're a parent, you're like, I'm like, if, if Yobie did something like that, I'd be like, are you an idiot? Right. Like, explain. Like, what?

Why are you stealing gum? Right. Like, why are you doing that? Like, what are you accomplishing? Right. You know. But I don't think you would do that. I don't know. Yeah. One time here in L.A., it was just like a, it was just, it just came out of me. I was, I was at

Vaughn's. Is this adult thieving? This is adult thieving. Oh, I can't wait. Yeah. No, we, we knew each other, yeah. I was an adult in L.A. And I was brought my stuff out to the car and I loaded it up. and I saw someone had a cart with a case of beer on the underpart. You know, when you put like kitty litter or whatever on the underpart and they forgot about it. And I didn't think about it. I didn't like this beer. It was like Coors Light. I had no interest in it.

I saw it. I grabbed it. And ran through it in my trunk and sped out of there like it was a bank robbery. Stop that right now. You did not. I swear to God. And that case of beer. stayed in my refrigerator in the garage for about three years.

So I had no interest in it. But I had to steal it at that moment. Wait, you should bring that to the next Yankee swap. I should. That's what you should do. Yes. Yeah, we have a great Yankee swap. We have a great Yankee swap.

Which I feel like we just did two months ago. Right. Yeah. Because we missed Christmas. Well, we are now doing like summer Yankee swap because Jen and Pete moved to Hawaii. Right. So we could just get it in. weekend. I have to say for all of the reschedule and whatever and trying to put it together,

it is one of the most fun. It's worth it. It's worth it. Everybody there is funny. I know. Everybody's funny. Like I don't laugh that much ever. That's why the Yankee swap is so important. Yeah. It really is true. We are dying laughing. Everyone is tired time. I still have up on my mantel piece some ridiculous picture of Pete. Right. You know, the thing, is now I'm having it at my house. Yeah. And I get left with all the crap. If you brought the Coors Light,

I would now be stuck with like the corruption Coors Light in my basement refrigerator. And as authentically angry as you were when you were yelling at everybody, don't saddle me with all of your extra weird gifts and pictures of whatever. Don't leave your crap. Get it out and I'm not kidding.

Everybody did it. They did it. And they actually now do it just in, defiance. Like, that's part of the humor. Like, they think that's hilarious. It is pretty funny. Okay. If you find a credit card, of course you're going to give it back. Duh. But are you allowed to get a couple things? No. Ew. Credit card fraud? No, thank you. I don't know if it's fraud. That is total. No, that's just, that's just thievery. It's just stealing. It's just stealing.

But, but, but. No. No. No. No. When the credit card company calls them and says, did you just buy a bunch of Cors Light? And they're like, no, they don't charge them for it. Yeah, but Tom, no. This isn't my opinion. I'm just asking questions. Well, tell me, what are you going to do?

I would never do it. Do what? Charge things on some strange credit card. Okay, great. Good. Thank you. All right. Just checking.

Would you like a cigarette? Why are you so accusatory? Do you still study acting? Do you ever go into, you never? No. After that guy of Carnegie, that was it. Nobody can tell me anything anymore. You know what to do.

I'll be like, oh, no, thank you, sir. I'll tell you. I would be the worst student at this point. Yeah. Yeah, that would be weird. That would be awful. So you never studied like along the way? Like once you started working, just...

Yeah, once I started working. Once you're doing it, you're doing. But I do think, I mean, I feel like I do learn from it. I learned from every experience. I mean, my God, like, once after the Brothers McMullen thing, and then I got Spin City, I had, I really didn't know how to be in front of a camera. Right. And so I, but I was like, well, my background is in theater.

and I've worked in front of a live audience before, and Spin City is shot in front of a live audience, so it's going to be the same. Right. Which it wasn't. It's like three cameras and, like, you know, shooting scene over and over and over again. So I would say that I have my,

my studying has transferred to studying on the job. As you're doing it. Yeah. As long as you're working. I mean, a lot of times studying is when you're not working, just keep sharp. Yeah, no. I just have, it's like every,

I've learned so much. I learned so much doing Spin City. I learned so much. doing Friday Night Lights. Like everything I've ever done, I feel like I've learned something else. What a great moment. I don't know. I just clocked it now that you do Brothers McMullen in New York as a New York actor.

And then Spin City shot at Chelsea Pierce, right? In New York. Yeah. Oh, man, what a great time. I know. Yeah. It's so great. I wish we were friends then.

I know. Well, we were. I mean, well, no, it was actually like later. it was like two thousand yeah i would have had a lot more fun if yeah i could have come and like hung out with michael and i know you would have like what were you doing then um running around doing stand-up right were you in new york yeah yeah but we didn't i didn't come out here till late okay i feel like we hung out in new york but maybe we didn't we did what after it was like after we fell in love okay fine fine after we fell in love uh are you ticklish

Yeah. Are you? A little bit. Where? Under here. Yeah. And on the top of my knees. Oh, yeah. Do you do, do, like that? My dad used to, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was my dad. What did he say? I don't know. Actually, I'm not sure if if anyone else did it. It would be ticklish. I don't know. I think it's my dad's vice grip. Right. And what did your dad say while he was doing that? Um, I don't know. Well, here's what my dad said. This is what it sounded like he was saying to me, and what I always remembered, do you know how a horsey pumpkin?

It goes chomp, chomp, chomp, chomp, chomp. But now what I realized when I was older, is he was saying, do you know how a horse eats pumpkin? It goes chomp, chomp, chomp, chomp. But like when I was growing up, do you know how a horse eat pumpkin? Tom, chomp, chom, chom, chom. My dad didn't have like a thick southern accent,

but just enough that it was like. That's funny. Because my father also did a thing called horse bites. Oh. Where he would grab the back of your thigh. Yeah. And squeeze it.

Yeah. Who wants a horse bite? Oh, no. Yeah. Why all the horse stuff? So much horse stuff. Yeah. I don't know.

It's not like we grew up in the country. We grew up in New Jersey. Well, well, you know. That's a country. Do you like a man that smells like cologne or a man that smells like cigars? Don't say neither. Why? I wanted to.

You're stuck with this guy. My instinct is saying neither. Well, not cigars. Not cigars. So I guess cologne, but like, nice cologne. Gobi's just gotten to the place where he's like, mom. Ax body spray? Yeah.

Well, he wants the ax body spray very badly. I have really done everything in my power to deter him from the ass body spray. And so far I've been successful. That's good. It's a lot. It's a lot. So, and then he was like, I want to go to the store. and he did go with a bunch of like his friends and like little kid friends.

This was mostly more last year. And they got a bunch of testers. And those testers are so horrible. So then I was like, I was like, hey, honey, what about this? And I like got like a really nice brand. And I like gave him testers of that. This one smells nice because it doesn't have that thing that like stays in your nose for five hours afterwards. Yeah.

But that's going to be a weird, you know, 14 year old boy. Right. You can really smell without any help can really be a horrible smell. Right. So then it's kind of a combo of something entirely different that was never intended by the cologne maker. Right. And that's what you're stuck with. They should just invent like 14-year-old boy. I think I had Halston and Dracar Nour.

Dracar Nour. I remember that one. Those were my high school scents. Yeah. Oh, God. They just stick in your nose. get stuck right up there. But yeah, if I have to choose, though, between the cologne and the cigar, I would take the

cologne. Yeah. Because the cigar is also his mouth. Yeah. Right? He's trying to kiss on you. Are you going to come back in White Lotus? I hope so.

I feel like you should. I heard, like, now I just kind of read it in the papers like everybody else. And I heard that maybe they're doing the next season in France. And I'm like, oh, man, I want to go to France. Yeah. Come on, Mike. I want to go to France. But the thing is, that show, it takes six months to shoot it.

It takes so long to shoot. Got to go live there. You have to go live there for six months. And I'm like, I mean, listen, if I think if I talk to Yobi, I feel like there's a part of me that. He'd be going. No, he'd want to go. He'd go. Yeah.

You know, I'll be homeschooled in France for six months. Yeah. Yeah, it's only six months. For him, yeah. Yeah. And it's only six months. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I don't know. I mean, who knows.

That was such a great character, though. You really summed up when you go to those resorts and see those. Right. And you hope that you're not one of them. But you're so close to being it if you are accepting the luxury that is there. You really had such a good balance of being a good person, but not a great person. Right. But it was funny because I, it was really important to me. Like, I'm like, okay. I got to understand who this. Like, I had, I had such compassion for that character and that woman because I'm like, she is, she was brought up similarly to the way I was brought up. Like, you can do anything.

You can have it all. Right. Like, that's how I was really, you can have it all. But at the same time with these very conventional ideas of what your wife, life should be as a wife, as a mother. So it's like we were brought up with these kind of conflicting ideas about, who we were supposed to be as women. The culture wasn't really ready to support women

in these big leadership positions. It also wasn't ready to support men in relationships like being less powerful than their wife. And so it's like, we don't have any... We're just like, we're just figuring it out. Making it up, yeah. And I love the idea that, like, within that season

that like her kids hate her. That part was, yes, the eye rolls of just. You know, just like, you know, they're so resentful. Yeah. And all she's doing is trying to like do a good job. I know. My heart broke for her. She's just like, look where I got you guys.

We're in this paradise. We're in this room. We're in this thing. And they're just like, ooh. Ew. What's wrong with you? I was like, oh. I know.

Exactly. And I'm like, oh. So terrible. Just, you know, we haven't figured it out yet. Yeah. Do you have an idea when you're in the middle, like it's a six-month process of filming that? Do you, and with any project that's, I mean, most of your projects have been really successful, do you get an idea like, oh, this is going to be, this is probably going to be special?

Yeah. I mean, with White Lotus, you know, I loved Mike White from forever. Yeah. And had actually done another movie that he'd written. We'd work together. So I was really excited about doing something with him just because I think he is so brilliant. And then I loved the concept of that show.

I mean, it really was. Now, of course, we're about to go into a fourth season of it. So it's like, but really at the time, it was such an innovative idea. Yeah, you didn't see it coming. You didn't see it. So I really had a sense that like, this is going to be great. Yeah.

Yeah, that's cool. And then we're there. I mean, we shot it during COVID, you know. Right. But we're there and like, it's just such a great cast. Oh, yeah. And so much fun. Also interesting.

So much, so smart. Yeah. God. And, you know, he's directing the whole thing. Yeah. And that it hasn't taken a step back is so impressive. Yeah. No, it's, I think it's changed a little bit.

I think it now, I think it's leaning much more into. murder mystery than I think it was when we shot ours. Right. Like I think our, our season, I think, felt much more to me, at least, like, social commentary. And it had this kind of like accidental murder mystery in it. Yeah. But. Yes.

And yeah. But now I feel like it's much more kind of like, you know. Yeah. But still, there's still those elements of, you know, whoever played the, whoever played the, the corporate dad. going through the thing this year. Yes. Right?

Oh, yeah. There's, yeah, there's still some. No, I mean, listen, I think it's all, every season has been so brilliant. Yeah. And like such. But that character culture thing I get. There's always like, yeah, he's always finding another way to show that, those characters and these people.

You have the ugliness. The ugliness, yeah. But it's funny. But I do think like, you know, it's become so. much so suspenseful. Yeah. I feel like our season was just kind of funny. Yeah. Oh, it was yeah. It was really funny. Yeah. Well, congratulations on, uh, on the family McMullen. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Are you getting some, I mean, it's been out now for like a week or so. Yeah. Are you, are you, do you feel like people have yeah come back because it was. I do. Right. I think people are really, um, it's funny because I was like,

are people even going to remember the Brothers Macmillan? But like I actually think it's funny the people who have come up and been like, that was my, like, that movie meant so much to me. And I'm like, really? Because, you know, I still think of it as like this little tiny thing that like really happened. Right, right. But then I also really think that especially because it's holidays, like, I feel like Brothers McMillan, this family McMullen is like the perfect kind of like,

I'm going to cozy up on the couch in the afternoon in my afternoon. in my PJs and like watch. Yeah, during the break. Like really funny rom-com. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And I feel like it's going to be perfect for that.

Yeah. All those elements of it, all those relationships yours. Yeah. The kids, adults, but there's a good spark with all of them. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's fun. It really has, I think it's, we don't make rom-coms the way we used to.

I know. And I think it has such a great, I do think it has a lot of those elements that really work in a com. Yeah. Are you hitting on me? It was a great line. It's just so matter of fact and so conny. I'm just, wait, are you hitting? I'm just going to say it out loud. Right, right. I know. I love a forthright woman. Yeah. That's so weird. You never play them. Right. I know. It's hard for me to relate to them. But yeah, I do. Well, this is really great. This was really fun. So good to see you. Yeah, if nothing else, just so I could say how great you are without.

And then when we see each other just socially, I can just go back to, we can just go back to ripping each other apart. Yeah, exactly. Okay, perfect. Well, and we'll just forget it ever happened. Yeah, okay, good. Yes, yes. No, it's so good to see you. Yeah, you too.

I know you guys had your fun Halloween party and I couldn't make it. Oh, yeah. Tiffany came next time. I know next time. Yeah, it'll be good. It's a good one. Yeah. All right, we got it, kids.