Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 31 - Donna Lennard

Episode Date: December 8, 2020

Let's spend some time with Donna Lennard, the heart and soul of New York's legendary Il Buco restaurant and get a quick bite with the funniest man in quarantine, Gary Gulman.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, don't you know, it's also a show. Hey! Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. I'm Tom Papa. I will be your host for this glorious podcast. We have a good one today. We're going to spend a little time with Donna Leonard from Il Bucco, who has this amazing new book out. She is a wonder. If you've ever been to El Bucco in New York City, you'll know that it is one of the special places on the planet. Such an amazing place.

And to actually finally spend some time with the person who actually created this is going to be a treat for all of us. There's certain places that just have magic. And this is one of those places. We also are going to have a quick, a quick bite with our good friend Gary Goldman. Gary Goldman from New York City. Hilarious comedian. We're going to check in with him and see what he's eating and how he's surviving. Love Gary. We also today, oh, make sure you subscribe. I always have to say,

make sure you subscribe, make sure you give us good reviews, lots of stars, lots of good compliments. I don't have to beg. You guys are the best. Thank you for sending me all of your photos of all of your bread attempts and successes and jumping in and trying all of some of the stuff that we've been talking about. This is all about comedy and all about food. And thank you for not sending your jokes. Thank you for sharing mostly the food stuff. You guys are the best.

When we talk with Donna today, there's all the great places always seem to have, especially places that have a Mediterranean flare to it. They always have a little bit of the sea involved. And there's a little bit of the anchovy. The anchovy always makes an appearance. I know. It's a controversial fish. I think it is because we here in the States are used to little oily cans of tiny, hairy anchovies.

And we were introduced to them when we were chicken. children. They were, maybe they showed up on a pizza, maybe some weird grandfather cracked open a can trying to get a little bit of the taste of the old country. And we wanted to run out of the house and never see grandpa again. But there, if you ever eat in a place like Il Bucco, or if you ever travel around the Mediterranean, an anchovy takes on a very different spot in the culture because they are delicious. First of all, I like the oily ones in the can.

I'll eat an anchovy on anything. And I'm going to describe a dish that I may have talked about on the old podcast. You may have heard me talk about it on Rogan. the gentleman's breakfast. And I'm going to describe, this is all leading up to that. So hold on to your hats, kids. I'm going to blow open your morning. Look, this is a quarantine.

You don't have to go meet people. You don't have to see people. This is the time for the gentleman's breakfast. You'll know why in a minute. But the anchovy, when you go to these great places, there is like the white anchovies at Il Bucco. Simple dish. And that's why I'm excited to get her cookbook.

simple dish, if you find the real anchovy, they're bigger than the ones we have. They're not as gamey, fishy, oily as the ones that we have. Are they difficult to find? Yeah. Are they difficult to find here in the States? Yeah. Can you roll into your supermarket and just get these world-class anchovies and be able to make this dish?

No, you're going to have to do a little time. You're going to have to do a little research. You're going to have to get a little invested. but man if you can find them and i haven't all honesty i have not found a place that gives me the anchovies that they serve at el bucco or some of these finer places or that you get from the mediterranean but that's the work that i have to do in the meantime let's turn our attention to the little oily can of anchovies. Now look, you can in some supermarkets. I go to a pretty decent one. I don't know if they're any better, but I found some that come in a jar. You could actually, it's a clear jar.

You could actually see the little buggers in there. They're a little larger. They're a little less oily. They're a little less nasty. But again, for me to talk about an anchovy being less nasty is just because I'm trying to appeal to the people out there who I know just turn their nose up at the mention of anchovy. It's like trying to describe Bob Dylan to somebody who thinks that Bob Dylan should sing like Mariah Carey. You make excuses for them and you're like, yeah, but it's Dylan, it's not the point. His voice is different. It's about the poetry. And you know what? And the whole time in your head, you're like, if you don't get it, you don't get it. I'm not going to describe Dylan to you if you show up and you're like, or Tom Waits, you're like, why is Tom Waits talking like

that? What, that's the voice? That's, oh. And you don't get it. And we can't really even have the discussion. So anti-anchovy people, I'm talking to you. I want to make you the gentleman's breakfast. This came off of my love of sourdough. It was first introduced to me by, Sam Sifton at the New York Times. It is very simple, and I'm not going to, enough with the apologies for anchovies. We're just going right into it. This is very simple. Take some butter out, a stick of butter, let it soften on the counter, let it get nice and soft.

Don't microwave it. Just let it give it some time. Be patient. Let it go. Then while it's softening, you get several cloves of garlic. and chop them up. Garlic. Then you take some anchovies and you start chopping those up about the same size as the garlic.

Very little pieces. Mush them up, mince them up. Get your good knife and go to work on both of them. Now you have a pile of garlic and you have a pile of anchovies. If you were to measure it out, you're probably talking about two tablespoons, two and a half. of each. Then you take your butter, which is all softens, you put it in a bowl, you add in your anchovies, you add in your garlic, a little touch of salt, and mix it all together. I know. Then you put it into the refrigerator and you let it harden. You wake up the next morning, my friends,

and you take a big piece of your favorite bread. Hopefully it's sourdough bread that you've made yourself or you've gotten from a nice artisan bakery around you that does all the work but gives you a quality product and you cut yourself a nice slice of it a good slice a thick slice and you take your concoction out of the refrigerator and you take a big old knife and generous portions you after you toast that bread and it's nice and warmed up you can let the concoction kind of rest on the, you know, it gets a little hard. So get it, but it's going to warm up because of the toast. Whatever way you're going to do it. It's early morning. I'm not going to tell you how to live. Spread generous portion of that new butter, anchovy garlic butter onto that toast.

Ho ho, ho, ho, ho. The true gentleman's breakfast also scrambled some eggs, some slowly scrambled eggs so they're nice, soft and fluffy, possibly with a little milk on the side. I don't even need to talk about the egg. I'm not here to sell you eggs. I'm here to sell you anchovies. I know. Now look, if I have a big pitch meeting, I've got to be around people I don't know. I'm not eating this for breakfast. I am not, you are going, you, this is not something. You're not making out with people, you're not getting close to people, you are going to smell somewhat odd, but you don't care because you'll be so content after eating this. You'll be so, your soul will be so satisfied that you don't need another human being on earth because you were just given something

by God himself. I'm telling you this is how transformative this is. Is it bowl? Yes. Is it something you eat every day? No. But once you have that ball and if you do enjoy it, if you're one of the people that gets Dylan, as we say, you're going to eat that probably several times during that week until all that butter is gone. It's that good. It is that good. And it's called the gentleman's breakfast, probably because you're in.

anything but a gentleman. You eat it. You're more like an animal. Maybe it's an ironic of the gentleman's breakfast. But that's a great anchovy. Oh my God. We have a great show for you today. We have Donald Leonard. She is the founder of Il Bucco. And I am so fascinated by magical spots, by magical places, by places in my business, it's the comedy seller, right? It's, um, It's Largo. It's the comedy store. It's those places or those old theaters, the old Fox theaters all around the country, places that just have some magic to them. And El Bucco is now a 25-year, Donna is, from the time she opened it, it's a 25-year career of hosting and creating spaces that are transformative. And what's cool about it, too, it's not only, you walk in, it's not only

this kind of space that's filled with, it feels like history, it feels like soul, and it's not pretentious. Like I've been in there with some fancy people at opposite tables, and then you could just have, you're just someone who just rolled in from the village just looking for a quick bite at the bar. It's that kind of a thing. It's not putting on airs. It just welcomes everybody who gets it kind of a thing. So it's going to be really great to spend some time with her. And then, of course, grab her cookbook recipes, recipes and stories, Ilbuko, 25 years, recipes and stories. It's going to be great. And then in the middle, we're going to put a quick call into our good friend Gary Goldman for a quick bite and see what he's eating and how he's getting

through. And I can only imagine he's had a lot of comedy on food. He's someone who thinks deeply about candy and bacon and he'll talk to you about it for a good 20 minutes. But this one won't be that long. This will be a quick bite with the great Gary Goldman. So that's it. What do you say we get going? Let's go say hi to Donna. Well, nice to meet you, sincerely. I, first of all, I've been a guest of your restaurant for not that long of a time. And I was wondering why, because I've only, I guess maybe like the last six years, eight years maybe. Okay. I would roll through.

But it was interesting because your book is out. And I was reading the intro to it. And it makes sense why I wasn't there in the beginning, because that's when I was starting my career. career as a comedian in New York. So I wasn't going to restaurants. I was just going to a comedy club and then, you know, eating some chicken burgers. And then and then back home. So it really kind of made sense. It was it was a cool, it was a cool little timeline to see, to see how you came up. And it was a very nice thing because the first time I went in there was one of those special places where you're like, okay, how does this happen?

How does this, there's so much depth, there's so much soul to this. It's almost like seeing a performer where you're like, what's the history of this person because this didn't just happen overnight? And then to see your intro of your book, which is amazing,

it really kind of started to fill in all the blanks of why there is so much soul in that spot. And I guess, Before we get into it, before we get into the history of it, how are you doing right now? I mean, we're now recording this. We're a good eight months into the shutdown pretty much. Yeah. How are you and how are your spots?

Well, I'm doing well. I escaped a bit out to my cottage in East Hampton with my son, who's going to school remotely. and our Bengal cat who's very, very happy out here. She's having an amazing time. Yeah. And the restaurants are going. Yeah. We opened a pop-up out here in Montauk over the summer, which was really great for everybody.

I think it just brought really great energy. It was great to get some of the guys out of the city. And we were right on the ocean. in Montauk at the Maram Hotel. So Justin Smiley came back, my original chef of Elementary. Whoa. And so he's back in the fold. And he ran Montauk with my general manager from Lubbuko, Mark Ellert Beck,

and a team of about 12. My son had his first job as a 15-year-old restaurant worker. Yeah. And he had a lot of fun. and it was great. It was really, you know, I think this is a moment where you just have to use all your creative juices and stay optimistic. And it's also a time when you discover who the people are who are really on your team and who's really not there and not available. I mean, people dropped off and people came in and Justin brought in,

a GM who worked with him who's been terrific, really co-teaming as restaurant directors with my GM from Lubuko, and he's pretty much running the show at Elementary. We're, you know, at Lubuco, we've got tables in the street. We have all the cobblestones in front of Bond Street. Yeah. So, you know, we built our little structures, and we were doing to go out of both restaurants.

you know, from the moment we could start doing that back in April, May. Yeah. And we've been, you know, building the team little by little. We were really busy end of the summer and September, October was a great month. And now as the weather's turning, you know, we start to get a little more nervous. Yeah, I know. I'm sitting here in Los Angeles where they just closed up all the restaurants outdoor dining. which we always thought that, well, we would keep going because we were going to be outside.

I'm a New Yorker, but I've been living out here. And it was like, well, this place is just going to keep humming. These restaurants are going to have a real advantage. And then they close them down just this week, which is absurd. Yeah, that's crazy. Is everybody kind of up in arms? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Because of people, you know, it's not like you just throw a table outside and keep going. There's investment and restructuring. A lot of money involved. And yeah, people are like, what are you doing to us? You can't just disconnect us for another three weeks. It's crazy. Well, it's good to hear that you guys are healthy.

We're doing well, knock knock. Yeah, that's good. We had a little scare last week and everything's fine. So, you know, you go through these little bumps and everyone gets tested and, you know, it's harrowing. I know exactly. I know I keep telling everybody it's like, well, I know it's hard, but we've done so much already. We've gotten through so many crazy things that have happened and social unrest and the election and the pandemic. It's like, we're doing it. You're almost there. Just keep going.

Yeah, and it's like, and now it's getting like muckier. I know. I know. It's like the last couple miles of a marathon. It's like, of course those are going to be the hardest. Yeah, it is, it is really like that. And I, and I think all of us sitting here, you know, watching the weather starting to turn, we've been really fortunate with these days in the high 50s and 60. Yeah. But, you know, we'll see. You know, we're nothing if not resilient, right? We're, we keep going. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. We'll, we will, we will do it. And when you have a great team, it's, it's really, it's great. I have a lot of gratitude for that. Oh, my God.

Well, it's an amazing thing, like I was saying in the beginning, reading the intro to your book. It really is, it really starts to just make sense. I mean, I'll bucco is this, it just has this special. It's, the only way I could describe it is it's layered. It's like there's, it's layered. There's, it's not just the antiques that are around. It's not just the food. There's just some other magic at work.

And to see how it natural. evolved, if you mind us going back in time a little bit. Sure. When you, when first you as a little child, I was really interested in how food wasn't really that much of a priority until your parents split and that your mom kind of dove in and started like taking food seriously. Why do you think she did that? You know what?

I'm sure she was doing it before also, but it's just the way you remember things. She was like, that's not, you're not really. really true. Did you really eat that? And I said, yes, we did. We loved it. Maybe it's what I remembered because it's what I loved what we ate when she wasn't cooking. But she really did start to get very serious in the kitchen and take cooking classes. And I don't know. I think she just, you know, her kids were getting older and she had more time on her hands. And she started, you know, looking for things to busy yourself with. Yeah.

It's, what, what's her nationality? She's, an American, Jewish, Polish, Polish Russian Jew from Brooklyn.

Okay. So what, so what drew you, I think of you, you were saying when you were like 17, you went to Sicily? I went to, Cerdinia.

Sardania. Yeah. Yeah. Which I've never been. Very beautiful. Yeah, that's what I hear. And you say that was a real moment.

for you. It was spectacular. You know, I lived with the family in the capital city of Calgary, but, you know, in the outskirts. We're the beaches. And I discovered like, you know, fruit off trees. Yeah. Basically. It's amazing when you, yeah, it's amazing when you realize, oh, that's where they come. Oh, that's where they come. I mean, I remember, you know, having never remembered tasting a fresh apricot and that fig, you know, a fresh fig. And it blew my mind. Yeah. Right.

Exactly. How do we get more of these? And then, of course, the people and the culture, I just, it really just connected with me. Yeah. No, that's amazing. And then you come back to New York at that time. Like when you were done with school, you were NYU, you were, you were studying. Did you just stay in the city once you got to the city?

Yeah, I did. I've been here since 1983. Since 83. Yeah. Man, that's a lot of changes. You met your husband. Was he your husband? Didn't you guys get married?

Now you're going to really set me up here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Joe and I did not get married. Oh, you didn't get married. We were, he actually had the aneurysm three days before. our wedding. So he passed just before we were about to get married. Man, oh, man.

What a crazy story. I mean, because you're about to get married and people were actually coming into see you get married. Yeah, exactly. Jeez, Louise, as kids. As kids in New York, how did you get through that? Good question. First, I dove into his screenplay that he had just finished.

And I was trying to get it produced. So I just put all my energy into that. His brother moved in with me for several months, keep me company. We kept each other, you know, sane and drinking a lot of red wine. Yeah. And then I guess I eventually I put the screenplay down for a while after about a year. And it was about around that time that I started. bartending part time while I was doing independent film work at ARQA and I met Alberto.

Got you. Man, it's such a fraught time to begin with when you're in, you're leaving school, you're in New York, you're finding that, I mean, I was doing the same thing. It's just like, it's a hundred miles an hour. It's, you're like looking back now at this age, you're like, how do you even do it? It seems like the practical is like, I'm actually answering the question as I go through it. Thank you. But it's, yeah, because it's, no, because it seems like it's daunting.

But for us, but when you're in the middle of it and living it, you're also doing a lot of other crazy things in New York. You're just finding your way. You're just growing. You're going at 100 miles an hour. But to have that curveball thrown at you, it's heavy. It's heavy. Yeah. It was life-changing.

Yeah. You know, in many, many, many ways. Yeah. But, you know, these things also, they also, if you're strong enough, these things also, I don't know, they inform your soul. They make you a little, it gives you a little, a little depth and a little perspective. I lost somebody when I was young, like in high school. And it just kind of, you know, that those moments just, they just kind of shift your perspective

of the world. permanently. And it's kind of a blessing in a way that, you know, I know people that didn't lose people until they were much, much older. And they didn't have like that perspective that kind of informed and made them stronger and a little more, a little wiser as they were kind of finding their way. I think that's probably true. I think adversity forms us in many ways.

Yeah. And it forces you to really, you know, direct yourself. And, you know, I think you have two choices when you're faced with that kind of tragedy. You either go under the bed and hide and just collapse and go into a deep dark depression or you live for two. And I think I just had that kind of spirit. And I just felt like I had to get out there, get the script out, you know, just do something. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

But it's been a journey and it takes all different forms. Yeah, no, it really does. And I know I'm going to keep coming back to this, but your spot at Il Bucco, I mean, there's, there's something, there's whispers about that place that are, this is why I was so excited to meet you because it's the person that's kind of informing all of this stuff. And that we, you guys walk in there in Bond Street. And this is, this is a probably, could you describe what that space looked like when you first showed up? Because you guys were just thinking, well, antiques, I want to. your partner that you meet working in a restaurant and you're like he needs some place to store stuff. I mean, but Bond Street, you know, people don't realize New York wasn't sex in the city. No. There was nothing really going on on Bond Street. And what pulled me over in my Jeep was seeing the mahogany doors going in next door. They were putting in Spectre Photo Labs.

The main store was on LaGuardia Place. I used to develop all my photos there as a hobby photographer slash filmmaker. So I was intrigued that there was this, you know, this place was opening on this cobblestone street. Yeah. And next door, I see these, you know, this otherwise very manufacturing zone street. I saw these curly cute chandeliers in the window. And I was like, wow, what's in there? Yeah.

Yeah. And I just walked in and, and the, you know, the floor was painted with like five inches of brown paint. And the walls were all white and there were kilns everywhere. But the very front had been set up as a little showroom. So it had this little harlequin burgundy painted faux pattern on it. Right. And the chandeliers were hanging in the front. And 10 feet back, it was all just.

you know, workshop for these artists. It was a very different space. Yeah. God. But it had a magic to it. It had a really incredible energy. And they were wonderful artists.

And they've, you know, Warren's still a very dear friend. That's amazing. And all of his chandeliers are still hanging in the restaurant. And in the center of Alimentary. Yeah. That big chandelier in the center of the atrium of Alimentary

is made by him as well. Wow. That's amazing. It's amazing when you learn about the history of these buildings that there was, you're like, oh man, oh man, they've been here forever and has had all this, have all these ghosts floating around. Yeah, we actually have ghost busters come in. Oh, really? Yes, to go into the Edgar Allan Poe cellar. No, really?

Yeah, it was very funny. They walked in and we were sitting upstairs and, you know, they said, oh, on our way here. We just felt all the trepidation. There's something going on in that space. And then afterwards they came up and they told us about all the energies and there was a murder and a baby crying and a woman killed. And they were clearing out the energy. But there was also this very, there was some very positive spirits in there. And my partner, Alberto, and I walked downstairs afterwards.

And I looked at him. I was like, so do you feel anything? thing. Yeah. Not really. And then suddenly, boom, this photograph that my sister had given me that was propped up against the wall, like fell over in the moment. No.

And we just jumped out of her skin. Running up the stairs. It took me a while before I was comfortable going downstairs at night by myself. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, forget it. It really shifted things for a lot. a little bit. Yeah. Holy cow. So you weren't even thinking I'm opening a restaurant here. This was a

place where people are going to come and check out the antiques and stuff and then you start serving little little dishes and a little wine. And that's how it pretty much starts. Yeah, we applied for a wine and beer license. It came dated Alberto's 40th birthday. And we invited our landlords for lunch and asked them if we could expand the use. And they were so bold over by what the space had turned into that they just said, sure. Wow. Was it, were they impressed by the space or by what you were serving them?

The space was transformed, number one. It was really beautiful. And then the lunch, I mean, Alberto put on a show for sure. Right. And did you have a sense? Did you have like a design? I mean, you were into film and photography and stuff like that. So did you have an eye, obviously?

But did you, had you ever, like, designed a space like that? No. I think what Alberto and I had together was something really special. We had really an incredible synergy in our aesthetic. And we would just go and we would fall in love with the same things. And he was really a master of, like, setting the stage. and I love doing it as well but I in the beginning

very much deferred to him because it was the thing that he loved to sit for hours and move things around in the space and he's still very much like that today he's an incredible person but now I think my design sense is very intuitive

mm-hmm you just kind of go with the flow and yeah and did you have that same sense when it came to the menu when it came to food? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm not a trained chef and I never went to cooking school, but I love food. And I just have a natural instinct for it and I think a good palate.

So I just follow my gut. Yeah. Did you discover that you had a good palate? Was that something like you're like, oh, I kind of experience these things in a way that other people don't? Yeah, I didn't think about it for a long time, actually. Yeah. And in the beginning, it was all about Alberto, you know, because he was this charismatic, quixotic figure from Italy who knew everything about food and where to find it. And, you know, we lived in our apartment and we would cook on the fireplace.

And, you know, we just, everything was like a celebration of food. And I always loved food. So we really just kind of connected on that. And it was only when he started, you know, more backing out the door and the chefs were coming in. And I had to like get into the kitchen. Well, I mean, I'm sure when he was there too, we tasted things together and we agreed very much palette-wise on almost everything. Right. So it was, you know, a constant discovery.

But when, once he was gone and I was there with my chefs working, you know, that's when it really became clear that I had something to offer them, to, you know, to to bounce against and to work with. And I think they enjoyed most of them, at least the collaboration that came out of that. It's amazing. I mean, that's really, it's that, it's such a natural story. It's like, it's not, I'm opening a restaurant and then all the stuff that goes into that and chasing, right? It just kind of evolves. It really, it really informs that space and that experience that you have.

have when you're there. It is a very natural feeling spot. It's, it's almost like it was calling you out. Maybe it was the ghost in the basement. Yeah, I mean, Alberto, when he walked in there, he's like, this is the space. This has the energy. It's magic. You know, our angels are here, you know. And I remember Bob Bucione Jr. sitting at table six in the corner one day. And I was, I sat down with him to have a glass of wine. And he said, you know what it is, Donna? You know what it is about this place? it's just slightly awkward. And, you know, because nothing was like set up like in design to be a restaurant. You know, everything was just kind of like mix and match and moved around.

And, you know, it didn't have like a, any straight lines. Right. And it's got to be cool because now like 25 years in, now it has like this earned history to it. Like it has all that stuff. of like the soul of the space, but it sounds like it kind of had the, the makings of that in the beginning. Absolutely. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. And isn't it strange how there's some spots that never work? Like, things will open repeatedly in the same spot and they just fail. It's kind of the opposite energy. Yeah, I think that's really true. I mean, it's so, it's so important.

Like, I would never go into a space that had been 10 different restaurants, one after another, and go in and try and change that energy. There's something there that doesn't work. Yeah. And I've watched it so many times. God. Man, oh man. There's one line that you have in the book.

I think it was from the book. It might have been from something else. I think it was from the book. You said the best prime materials and do the least possible to create the best result. I love that. Just that you would find the best stuff. be simple with it and don't get in the way of it. That really speaks to everything that's served in El Bucco.

Yeah. That's the philosophy. Okay, now here's my question, though. I'm walking around. I love food. I like to cook. I'm trying different things. But how do you shop?

Like, how do you find great white anchovies and then some other, and then this great. pasta. Like, how do I shop? Tell me how I'm supposed to shop. You mean, where are you supposed to go? Yeah. Do I have to go to 12 places? Do I have to? I mean, I was very jealous that you and Alice Waters are just walking around Union Square Market. It was like, oh, man. That was so much fun. And we got rained out, and it was still really fun. God, it had to be great. I lived on 10th Street for a long time, and we would run over there and get the stuff. But I always feel like, like people like yourself walk through those markets and see things that I don't see.

No, I think you have to know where to go, number one. And I mean, I'm really fortunate that most of the things that I really want to get, I go downstairs to Lbuka with my shopping bag into the, into the walking box or the pantry. And I've got it. And if it's not there, it's at elementary. So I do very little shopping. But it's about finding the few little places. is that really know how to curate their product

and are really looking and really diligent and conscious about what they're choosing. There's a little place out here in Springs where I live called S&S. It's a little market coffee bar, tiny little space, and they do like some handmade products for the house and some leather goods. And it's like a mix of a lot of different things,

but so beautifully curated. And they've got beautiful, oils and tins of sardines and everything is chosen and you know when you go in there you're going to find good product so you know it's it's those little spots that you know you just talk to the owners and let them talk about the product and if they if they've got the information and the knowledge it means that they really did the work and the research to really seek out the product that was delicious and try different things and and choose the best all right that's smart. That's what I'll do. Because the guy at Ralph's doesn't know what I'm talking about.

I wish I was better, better, I had better information about L.A. I don't spend enough time there to really know the little nicks and crannies, but I'm happy to like send you a little list. Yeah, I would love that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's, it's, the hard part about it is it's, it's so spread out. It's kind of a little unknowable. It really does take a lot. Like, walking around Manhattan, it's like you can kind of start to find your way within walking distance. Yeah. Yeah. Where do you live in L.A.?

I'm in Sherman Oaks. Okay. Yeah. But it's interesting you say that because I just found this butter, this French butter. And I was trying to find it. And the place where I found it is this little place in Silver Lake. It's a tiny little shop. It's kind of what you're describing, this tiny little shop.

They have some vegetables. They have some weird imported salamis, and they're the only place in L.A. that has this butter. And I didn't get to spend much time there because it's all COVID-y and you're masked up and getting in and out. But there was a long line outside just to get into this tiny shop. That's a good one. Yeah.

People know what's going. The Santa Monica Farmer's Market is always great. Yeah. But to get there from Sherman Oaks is like three days. It's like going from New York to Vermont. So you must feel pretty great to have this new book out that has all of these recipes from. How many different chefs' recipes are in here? Oh, boy, that's a good question.

You know that I can't even answer that question. I know that I've had almost 15 chefs go through, but all their recipes aren't in there. I'd say probably half a dozen. Yeah. man that's I mean do you when you got when you got it the book all printed and has your story in it and these great dishes that came from it it's got to be a cool thing to just like look over and see on the table I have to tell you that um here it's right here that when it arrived I had my whole team from Montauk over to my house for a barbecue I was like we've got to have a

little you know end of season celebration and we'll do it at the house we were supposed to actually go out on a boat ride and go fishing, but the weather was terrible. So the backup plan was to come to my house, which I was kind of excited about because I wanted to host my team. So we, we grilled some fish, and we made grilled fish tacos, and it was great. And in the middle of that, the book arrives on the door, 100 copies of the book. And I, you know, I opened the door, and I opened the first book. And I look at it, and everyone's all. excited and for me it's like all right i've been i've been running around with this cover in my car for two weeks i just saw all the printouts okay okay it's here yeah that was it and it was kind of like an

anticlimactic moment then we had the um the first book release party at um at montaq um at our at our pop-up and when it was over i stayed i stayed in the hotel for almost a week I decided to just like get a little time. My son was with my wine director, Roberto here at the house. And the day after the release, I opened the book and I read it cover to cover. And that really hit me. Yeah. That was the moment.

That was the aha. Oh, my God. I did it. It's beautiful. It feels good. There's no glaring errors or typos or something that I would. wish I hadn't put in. It just felt so complete the experience because I had finished it while I was out here

in COVID. One of the reasons I first came out, I was like, I need to just get away and finish the book. Oh, nice. Perfect. Oh, it's so good. Really. I mean, I can't wait to get the hard copy. I was just going through it on Kindle.

And I got to have it like on the counter. Yeah, it's gorgeous. Man, oh man. I'm on this real. What's that? You got to get you one. Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. Man, it's so great to finally meet you. I can't wait until we're back in New York and we can actually crack open some wine and sit at that bar. I would love that. Please let me know. Yeah, it'll be amazing. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you for sharing a little bit of the story. And I'm going to, I'll be. be going on the podcast even more in telling people why they have to read it. But really, thank you for spending some time with us. Thanks so much. It's really nice to be here. Yeah. Be care. Say hi to L.A.

All right. I will. Bye. Bye. Take care. Hey, what do you say we take a quick bite with our good friend Gary Goldman? Gary? Hi, Tom. How are you? I am excellent. Thanks. How are you? I'm doing okay. Just wanted to check in, see how you're doing. I appreciate you checking on me. I am in quarantine on day 12 without showing any symptoms. So I'm either asymptomatic or I didn't get infected, however it is.

It's a combination of delight and despair. It's been our lives for the last eight months. I love having no responsibility. as a quarantine, but the loneliness and lack of, I mean, my wife is treating me like a prisoner in my own apartment. My God, it's terrible. How are you eating? I'm eating really well.

I mean, she's a really good sport about preparing all my meals to my, to my specifications, because I'm very particular. So would you like me to, because I, I eat pretty much the same thing every day at the same time. I'm a great believer in routine. I'd love to hear it. Okay, so I eat breakfast every day. Now I get up at about 8, 18 a.m. is when I set my alarm clock for it.

And then I won't eat anything until I'm really hungry. Because I try to break up the day that way by the meals are very special. to me. So at two p. Usually around 2 p.m. I take the time to ask for the exact same thing. I write it out. That's my part. And I ask for a

granola with coconut milk and some oatmeal and some flaxseed meal on it, a sliced banana. I do the slicing. She just delivers the banana. And

then I put two tablespoons of on it. Oh my gosh, Tom. So are you making the oatmeal separate and putting it on the granola? No, she just pour some of this oatmeal that she bought in bulk onto it. And so it goes in, it's sort of like Musley, but without all the delicious parts of Musley. Yeah, so it's a delicious, a delicious breakfast.

Wow, what a concoction. But you said 215. Yeah, about 2.15. in each day I have it on average sometimes one sometimes three so you're not a get up and eat kind of guy no no I do sort of a version of that that intermittent fasting or whatever I I don't really feel all that hungry when I get up and so I try to try to push this far far along in the day as possible oh that sounds like a great start yeah so oh it's a terrific start yeah and then and then so that's pretty late so then do you have a lunch or do you just

Just go to dinner. No, I don't have a lunch. I go to dinner at about, I got a dinner at about 8 p.m. And at 8 p.m. I have an enormous salad. I mean, this is a stainless steel mixing bowl full of, I tell her to use, and she has dainty hands unlike myself. So I tell her to use about three handfuls of cale. Okay.

And then raw broccoli florets, raw cauliflower florets, a spicy sauerkraut. Ooh. Yeah. And listen, this isn't something that I'd done up until my 50th year. I never put a sourcrow on salad. But then I realized that I just, I love sauerkraut. I think it, yeah, I had no interest in sourcrow for 50 years and then all of a sudden I'm into spicy sourcrow and I've been told that it's good for you and it's like a negative

30 calories. I mean there are no calories you can eat all the sauerkraut you you want and it's actually quite quite filling and then on top of that is is green goddess, vegan got a salad dressing from, I think it's called Urban Meadows or something like that. It's at Whole Foods and it's terrific. And then for an entree, she makes this chickpea pasta by Bonda. Wow. Wow. Which is the best chickpea pasta.

It's the best protein pasta that I've tasted by a company called B-A-N-Z-A. and and then she puts the Arbiatta by Rouse, R-A-O-A-O-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-R-A-A-R-A-E-A-R-A-A-R-A-A-R-A-A-T. And, yeah, yeah, Raios, maybe is how it's pronounced. And then sometimes I'll have her put in a sausage by, it's called beyond, beyond meat. Right. It's, Italian sausage, and it's quite delicious. But a lot of times I just go with the right, Rayos. It's sort of the box of pasta is healthy.

The vegan, the veggie vegan, solid option because you get the, the spices and stuff. Sausage is really very little about the meat and really all about the spice. I agree with that. I agree with that. It's about the sauce and the flavor and the smoke. And, yeah, it's great. So you do this every day? This is pretty much your routine. Yeah, I mean, the only thing that is mixed up is occasionally there'll be another sort of fake protein in the pasta sauce or sometimes she'll make a vegan chili. Wow, that's right. And that's, yeah, and that's good. And this is all served prison style.

She leaves it at the door. Yes, because you're in quarantine. She leaves it on a folded, a padded folding chair at the door. And here you go, Gary. And it's, I mean, every time we see each other, it's a danger I feel. Well, did you hear today that the CDC said that you only have to quarantine for seven days? If you go get a test, and I was thinking about getting the test, and they said it was two to seven days to you find out whether you're just thinking,

What if you go there? You're in line, inside with 10 people who think they have COVID and then you get it. I think I'm going to make a doctor and get an antibody test because maybe that's what's going on. Whatever way you go, I would recommend just stretching it out because it seems like her serving you this meal, your little and your little hobbit hole every day is pretty sweet. Tom, I got to tell you, that's the tug of war in my brain between the delight. of being served and having nothing expected of me, but also the guilt. And for the first five or six days, there was also the fear that this would be my last week alive.

I kept saying to myself, I think I told you this, I was making decisions on how I spent my day based on whether I would want to look back and think that I spent my last week alive doing these things. So this book I'm writing, I mean, I did cursory edits each day and additions and took notes, but nothing where I would say I left an unfinished book that was crappy. Right. Yeah. Well, that sounds amazing. I would say, definitely do that.

If you do think that it is your end of days, my daughter. dogs barking. If it is the end of days, then I would say, throw a cookie in once in a while. That I was thinking was maybe I could lose weight during this thing. Like, that would be a good thing. Yeah. And then the other thing I was thinking was to be a great episode of just about any 80s sitcom. Like the, and it turns out he's been lying and he has to come clean in the final act. Yeah, perfect. Yeah, it would be wonderful. But I've, I've, I've, I've, I've finished 10 books in November. Oh, my God.

That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. I was really on, and I'll recommend, I'll recommend two Tanahasi coach, the beautiful struggle, which I listened to. It was terrific. And then Gilead by Marilynne Robinson is one of the best novels I've read in a while. Oh, wow. All right.

Great. Awesome. Well, I'm not, I probably won't follow your meal plan, but I'll follow your book recommendations. Well, you know that either of them are healthy. I appreciate that. Thanks for checking in. You're a really good friend, Tom. You're the best. I'll talk to you soon. All right. Have a great day. Say hi to the girls. All right. We'll do. Okay, bye. Bye. Well, that's it, kids. Thank you for listening. Thank you to Donna Leonard. Thank you for to Gary Goldman. Thank you all for listening. Make sure again that you like and subscribe. You guys are the

best. We'll see you next week.