Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 317 - Joel Kim Booster

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

This week we welcome the fabulously funny Joel Kim Booster to the table! He and Tom talk about the Scrubs reboot, the perils of corporate comedy, and being hot. Enjoy! Our thanks to: Butcher Box! As an exclusive offer, new listeners can get their choice between chicken breast or top sirloin for a year OR ground beef for life, PLUS $20 off when you go to ButcherBox.com/papa Monarch! Start your free trial and get 50% off your first year of total money clarity using link www.monarch.com/papa or code PAPA IQ Bar! Text PAPA to 64000 to get 20% off all IQBAR products, plus FREE shipping. Message and data rates may apply. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yeah. And everyone just... Everyone looks like a slightly older version of themselves, not a lateral move, different face, human being. Right. Because of the work that they've done. Like, I don't know the work situation. I know Sarah Chalk has had no work done. She's very afraid of it.

Yeah. And I remember her daughter came in at one point and was like giving her mom notes after a scene. She's cute. She's an adorable girl. And she was like, I didn't like all the facial expressions you were making in that scene on me. And I turned her and was like, you should be thinking you're lucky

He stars that mommy can make facial expressions, right? Because a lot of women in her position cannot. It's breaking bread. I had just started dating the guy that I am not married to when I did that Zoom with you and Fortune, getting ready to shoot the movie. And I remember because I said something about like looking terrible, looking like a slug, and he listened to the podcast back or watched it and was like, you didn't look like a slug. And I remember being like, oh my God, he's listening to the podcast that I go on.

This is terrible. This is terrible. That's great. So I played somewhat of a role. Oh, yeah. You're a big part of our love story. You're in the fabric of the love story, for sure. Well, I hope that you and or your husband eat bread because I bake this for you.

So I'm so hungry. Are you? So, yeah. Because I read a thing, I read your GQ thing about, it was all about starving yourself. And I'm like, but I also got a sense that. you're disciplined, but you let loose. Oh, yeah. It's all about, I cheat every day probably.

Some days more than others, but yeah, I'm definitely, I think I'm married now. So what do I got to take? Keep it tight for it, you know? That was one of my first jokes that I still break out when I'm at corporate gigs. It's like 30 years old, and it still works about how there's people think that when you get married, you have all these restrictions, but it's actually more freedom. Yeah.

Because you can get as fat as you want. It's like, I love you, you love me. We can't have sex with other people. Let's eat a chocolate cake. Yeah. So, all right, well, I bake this bread for you. I baked it last night. No way.

So you're good to go. This is a country loaf. Okay. Sourdough. And yeah, it'll be delicious. I can't wait. All right, good. Let's do it.

You can bring it home. Oh, great. Unless you want to eat it now. It's your bread now. It's out of my hands. No, no, I mean, I might have a piece now because I am legitimately hungry. You are? Yeah.

All right. But I will bring it home. What's you feeling on olive oil. Oh, I love olive oil. Danielle, would you mind? I just need a little container for olive oil or a plate. This is my new knife from Nambay. Oh.

I designed it. Wait, really? Yep. And this cutting board. That's so cool. Yeah. And. You designed it where?

This company Nambay, who is this beautiful, they make all these things with acacia wood. They're just like a, and they saw that I was a bread baker, so they asked if we could do a collab, and we designed stuff for over a year. That is so cool. I know. That is actually, and that's such a smart design, too.

I've never seen a bread knife like that before. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And then this thing, all the crumbs go in it. You're a genius. Shark take, my friend. I'm slowly becoming the Martha Stewart of comedy. Now, let me ask you, because I was getting ready, and we know each other a little bit,

what is the, is there pressure, it's so much pressure just to be a comedian? Yeah. And then, you know, the good thing about being a comedian, for the most part, is that we get to sidestep all of the stuff of being beautiful people. But then I'm gay and sort of cancels that.

out a little bit, sort of evens the playing field a little bit. Yeah, but it's like a whole another factor to be handsome and attractive. You know what I will say is it is difficult sometimes like depending like I actually I dress a very specific way when I'm performing right because if I'm wearing like a crop top on stage not only is it distracting for depending on the audience that I'm performing for yeah but it is harder to get people on your side when you um are good looking. It's like as a comedian. Nobody wants to laugh at a hot person.

I know. For a while it was like, it's kind of changed a little bit. But when I started, it was like if you showed up just even in shape, people were like, who did they think he is? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do we have a napkin by any chance? Just in case? Oh, right there, good.

Well, there you go. These are cigarettes? No, this is all for you. This is all for you. Oh. Yeah, we've got cigarettes. My God, if we get smoke right now. Do you smoke?

Do you smoke? I, so I used, I smoked for seven years, quit, then started vaping after the pandemic. You did. And then in order to quit vaping, I started smoking cigarettes again. And it worked like a charm. I didn't touch the stuff for a year and a half while I was smoking cigarettes again. And now I've weaned myself off cigarettes and I'm back on the vapes. I had this conversation recently with my daughter.

I didn't realize it was all owned by Big Tobacco. Yeah. So the vape people get you coming and go. And it's funny because the big tobacco. who owns all the other, like these shitty disposable vapes, put Jewel out of business, basically. And it was such theater because it was all about, like, oh, like, it's kids and it's health,

and it's like all this stuff, and they're marketing to kids and blah, blah, blah. And so they shut down Jewel, but then didn't go after any of the other, like, these disposable vapes that everybody has, which are way worse for the environment. And this is disposable. Yeah. And then the other thing that's funny that happened in California is they banned flavors. So you're not allowed to have like fruit flavors associated with these because it's too kid-friendly.

Right. So now they've done this thing where all the flavors now, they've renamed them to things like volume nine or Barcelona sunrise, Vienna Bliss, because that's not a flavor. That's not. And so, but they're all like, you ask the guys behind the counter and you're like, what is volume nine? And he's like, oh, it's cranberry raspberry. And I'm like, okay, so it's like such a dumb workaround. So stupid. I was doing a, you can take the bread if you want.

I was doing a corporate gig in Vegas for Jewel on the day that the story broke on the New York Times about how they were crashing and burning and they were coming for them for the kid thing and everything. And I had to get up and do stand up as the whole company. he was just freaking out. Already a corporate gig is like, you're fighting an uphill battle most of the time anyways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was really intense.

I was like, you know, I was like, oh, Jewel, I didn't really know much about it at the time. I was like, you know, but it sounded a little suss, but I was like, it'll be okay. You know, I can ethically get around it. And then I show up, it's literally the cover of the New York Times was Jewel is killing children. And I was like, oh, is the check deposit?

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing about those corporate gigs, though, is they always, like, where, like, who are you underpaying at this company to pay me this much money to come in and do 30 minutes of stand-up for your retreat or whatever? Like, the number of times I've performed in, like, a Chase Bank conference room is insane. But you got to do it because you look at the check and you're like, okay, this is worth it. I will bomb in front of, you know, 35 bank tellers. I'll have an uncomfortable half hour. Exactly. That is really what it is. It's just, yeah, how much can you withstand being uncomfortable?

Yeah. Sometimes they'll go great. Yeah, yeah. Once in a while you get a great one. But if they go south, they go south. I often find it depends on how surprised they are that there's a comedian there. Because oftentimes if there's like, if they're well prepared, they know this is part of the programming. But like, I've done one, I did one where they were like, and our special speaker today is a comedian.

And it was just like, you'd think that they'd be happy they didn't have to listen to like whatever other special speaker they had. But no, they were furious. Yeah, they're like, why? They were like, this is an even bigger waste of time than hearing from like an HR expert. Like, and I get it because it's their, it's their conference. Like if it's a big party, that's one thing. But when it's those kind of things, it's like they're thinking about this all year. They got to come.

They're like in sales. It's their moment. they have to accomplish whatever they have to do for the next couple of days. And now you're up there like, so let me tell you about my relationship. They're like, why? Who are you? Yeah, why are we listening to this? I don't care about your dog.

Oh, my God. That and birthday parties. Have you ever done a birthday party? Sure. That's the worst, man. Sure. It's the absolute goddamn worst. Like, why don't we stop the party where everyone's having fun right now?

Where they want? So that you can go out to the backyard. sometimes no microphone. Sometimes it's like a karaoke mic. And you're just like, okay, I'm going to do this. And no one cares if you live or die. No one cares. They just want to talk.

Exactly. I did a fundraiser in San Francisco not long ago. And it was really nice people. It was for school. It was like a big one. And you could literally just take a line halfway through the ballroom. And the front half wanted to see the show. And the other half wanted to socialize and keep.

drinking. Well, in one room, they win because they're talking and serving and doing all this stuff. And I'm trying to do jokes, making eye contact with one guy. I think that the only other bad, because there was a time, I don't know if you were doing them, but when every music festival also wanted to have comedy, yeah, Bonaroo. Bonaroo. A bumbershoot, outside lands, Lala, like all, I did all of these big music festivals, which I fucking hate music festivals, by the way. And now I will never go back to one because going as a comedian with an artist pass, it's like, oh, you can be away for the crowd. You can sort of stand in the nice area. Yeah.

But like, I remember Bonnaroo. They had us in this like old barn. Yeah. That was the only air conditioned space at the festival. So the audience was comprised entirely of 17 year olds coming down from their Molly who just wanted an air condition space to do that in. And when I say, I'm not sure more than three people were listening to any. of the sets that were going on. And we were all, not only did we do stand-up in that room,

but Kyle Ayers had, was doing a boast battle at the time, which was like the reverse roast battles where you were nice to people. And like games like that, especially, it's like they don't know who any of us are. They don't know what the fuck we're doing on stage trying to compliment each other. Like, it was a true goddamn nightmare.

And you really just have to put your ego aside and be like, oh, it's one of these. And like if you were to pluck anybody that didn't have, your experience of performing in those situations in that situation, they'd be like, this is a nightmare. Yeah. This is a humiliating nightmare. And we're just like, yeah. You can't, I always say you can't stop the clock.

It is one of those things, though, where like, I would say 80% of the time, the bigger the check, the worst the experience is going to be. Because, like, clubs are great. Like, I love a club audience. Yeah. But you're not, I'm not paying my bills most of the time with what I'm making at a club. You know, like, it's just, it's not, it's not the thing that, you know, brought me out of poverty. Right. Ultimately.

It was, unfortunately, Chase Bank. Chase Bank and colleges, which are also, like, sort of touch and go, depending on where you're at. Did you do a lot of colleges? I did a ton of colleges. You did a ton of colleges back in the day. Did you do those NACA conventions? I never did a NACA. I sort of got grandfathered out of NACA, which was nice.

The first time I ever did an hour was at a college. Oh, wow. Like, yeah. And yeah, so I don't remember. I think after I did Conan, suddenly there was like interest and stuff like that for me to do these colleges. How old were you college adjacent? No, I was probably 27, 28 at the time.

So like older, I will say I made a decision post 30 when I was still doing in colleges that I could no longer fuck college students, which I know is like such a right of passage. every male, like straight male comedian does it. But like I had this point where this guy came over to my hotel room. And I think he was like 19 or 20 on the app. But he showed up and I was like, I'm so sorry, but I actually need to see your ID.

And I was like, you know what? If I need to card them, I probably shouldn't be fucking them. But I was like, I'm not going down this way, man. They're not getting me this way for fucking a 17 year old who lied about his age. Like, no, sir. That is not how I end my career. Before it started. And the other thing that I don't know if straight men are as discerning about this or care as much about this, but like they're all bad.

They're all bad at sex. Like it seems like so fun and cool to like have sex with a 20, 21 year old. But you realize, especially I think gay ones, like they're like probably have been out for two years. Right. Not done a whole lot with anybody and like don't know what they want, what they want to do. So it was always like very disappointing. And then they get so attached, like, they want to cheat you how to Latin dance after you're done. And you're like, I want to get out of this dorm room and go back to my hotel.

Get away from me. So, yeah, it is, colleges were fun for a time. But always a little bit like. Were the shows okay? It depends. It depends on like, you know, sometimes I would open for a bigger, like, or I guess not open, but like feature or like the co-headline with like someone who is actually a name at the time. Like I would do that for like 80 Bryant, Vanessa Baer, like SNL people.

Right. You know, like so people would show up to those shows. And they were excited. And then I would have like a pretty good set in those. Right. But it was just me, especially at the beginning. It was a lot of multi-purpose rooms, cafeterias. Cafeterias. I remember the food courts. I remember one time I performed at this school and they didn't have a real green room for me.

They had like a classroom that they had set up. And they were like two standing mirrors on opposite sides of the room. And I was like, huh, that's weird. And as to the show, I saw these kids carrying this giant mirror back across campus. And I was like, oh, why did you guys do that? And they're like, oh, it was in your writer. It says that you need one mirror to see your front and one to see your back. And I was like, and I had never even, I didn't even know I had a writer at this point.

My manager just put that in, making me look like a fucking lunatic. And I was like, this is never something I've even mentioned to him that I wanted or needed. It was so crazy. And I was like, how many times does this happen where I come in looking like a crazy person? Where people are like then telling that story over and over again. He needs to see his front and his back before he goes like here. Oh, I have a story about that guy. Oh, my God.

And then I remember I performed at Princeton. And at that point, my writer was pretty much just Red Bull. And like if you have fresh fruit, like a pineapple is great. Like it's my favorite like snack. Yeah. I walk into this green room. They have put a whole pineapple. uncut on a plate on the table in this green room. No knife. Nothing to do with it. And I was like,

this is an Ivy fucking league school. And you motherfuckers think this is how, this is how, are you fucking with me or he's a swinger? Maybe he just wants to show people. I couldn't believe it. Oh, man. Where did you start? New York? Chicago. Oh, Chicago. I say Chicago is where I started doing stand-up. I don't think I got good until I moved to New York, though. Right. And I will say in Chicago, I was only in Chicago for about two years before I moved to New York. And it was funny because I was not like fully ingratiated into the comedy community in Chicago before I left. Because I went to Chicago to do theater, be a playwright. Right. And so most of my community, most of my friends were actors or theater people. And the thing about stand-up that you really don't understand

until you're doing it is that hanging out and being a part of that scene is like that's how you like get booked that's how you you get ahead you have to hang out and it was so hard for me to like extricate myself from my close friends in Chicago to then like spend all my time at open mics and then staying after my set and then doing the shows and like I was doing weird gigs too because I was a part of the theater community I was opening for plays at Steppenwolf oh wow really doing a lot of non-traditional off like not stand-up shows basically right and how cool was that being around Steppenwolf? I mean, it was great. It was a dream. I've always wanted to do a play there. And so this was the next best thing was like opening. They did like two comedy plays that they were like and I knew people through doing theater in Chicago and they're like, oh, do you want to do this? And so I would go and warm up the crowd before the play would start. Really? Yeah. It was a really bizarre gig. And then I when I realized that stand up was what I really wanted to focus on, I was like, well, I got to get out of this city because I got to hit reset. And I want to go to New York.

I did one visit to New York, did a week of shows, like begged barred and stole to get on all these bar shows in New York, loved it. And then as I was moved, I told everybody I was moving and all these comics in Chicago were like, no, it's too soon, it's too soon. You're never gonna, like you haven't done this show here, you haven't done this big show in Chicago.

Like, you shouldn't do this yet. And it's funny because I moved with a bunch of comics from Chicago who had met all those milestones and were sort of like the King's, and Queens of the scene in Chicago. But the thing they don't tell you is that once you move to New York or L.A., the credits don't transfer, man. No.

No one gives a shit. You're starting over. What big show you did in Chicago beforehand. It doesn't matter. And so for me, starting over at zero, I was much closer to zero when I moved to New York. So, like, I was used to just doing open mics going last the mic, you know, et cetera, et cetera. The people I moved with, it was a much harder adjustment for them. Right.

Because they were used to rolling into the mic and just being able to. go up whenever they wanted and like, you know, always busy, always booked on shows, like, every week. And so I actually think that like, I always tell people move a little bit before you think you're ready. Right. That's smart. Because it's just an easier adjustment. Yeah. If you're doing it that way. Because it's, there is all these levels of, uh, humility that you need to make your way. And it's like it's hard enough already. Go back to the, uh, the playwright thing though. Yeah. was that a big deal to kind of give that part up?

Or do you, did you always hang on to it? And maybe you still have it in you. Yeah, I mean, listen, I, it was tough to give up at the time. And then, you know, the great cosmic joke of being a stand-up comedian, a successful stand-up comedian is once you get successful, is they ask you to do everything but stand-up. Right. And that's like, really, like, it's so funny because I got into stand-up because I was really frustrated it as an actor and a playwright in Chicago.

I was not getting the kind of work I wanted to get. The parts were not interesting. I couldn't get any of my plays produced. And then I was like, so I'll just do fucking stand-up. And then I, you know, did stand-up for many years and then got successful doing it. And then that's when suddenly they were like, oh, do you have a script sample? Do you want to come in on audition for this thing? And it's like, I ended back where I wanted to be originally, but it just was through stand-up.

And so like, you know, I still like, you know, when I wrote for TV or when I made my movie, like I was using those same skills that I was using before. And it's like it's definitely helpful because I know a lot of standups who get asked to act who don't know what the fuck they're doing and are bad at it. Because it is, it's not a natural one to one like going from stand up to acting. And luckily I spent a lot of fucking money to learn how to act in college. And so it was like writing. Where did you go to school? I went to this tiny school called Millican University in downstate Illinois. It is not a famous theater school by any means. It's like fairly well known if you're on Broadway, I guess. But like it does not turn out a lot of like people like me, I will say. But that's great. I did the same thing. I went to just a small school because it didn't have football and it had theater. And I was like an athlete my whole life and I was like, I just want to go act.

And it was this tiny little school in New Jersey. and but I got to be the lead in all the plays. Yeah. Because it was, the department was just growing. Yeah. And it really, it was the greatest education because I wasn't competing with people who were really good yet. Yeah, it's really funny because in college, I didn't know I was funny until I started, I changed my major to playwriting and started writing plays. And I was only interested in drama at the time.

Like, I thought I was going to be either a Shakespearean, classically trained actor. or I was going to be writing on the wire. Right. That's what those were the two paths that I really wanted to do. Were you smoking cigarettes? When you started smoking cigarettes? I was smoking cigarettes in high school, man. And then like I started writing plays and getting them put up.

And I only wanted to write about fucked up shit. Like, you know, like deeply fucked up, dark, dark, dark stuff. But I would put up these plays and people would laugh at certain points. At moments where I did want the character to be funny or something like that. Not on, they weren't laughing at parts where I was like, no, no, no, no, this is a, this is a death scene. But, um, and that's when like, people started to be like, oh, you're really funny. And it's funny because I auditioned for the sketch and improv group on our college campus four times, I think, and never made it in. Really? And so it was, it was, it was only through writing these plays and, like,

slipping in these, like, you know, funny or absurd moments in the midst of, like, something really dramatic happening that I realized that's how I could make people laugh and that's when I sort of started to pivot a little bit. I mean, I'm not like Neil Simon or anything like that. I'm nothing I've ever written as like slapstick big big like, you know, broad comedy. But like I think that, you know, part of what I do as a stand-up and part of the skill set that I learned as a playwright is like finding the absurdity and really human, really like small moments in a person's life. in their most vulnerable moments. And like, you know.

It's interesting because you didn't, so you, when you were a kid, you weren't funny? I was funny because here's the thing. Like, when you are gay and you can't hide it effectively? When did you know? I knew when I was like four. Right. I think that's like my earliest memory of seeing David Hasselhoff. Oh, no, it was Scott Bakula and the intro credits, Quantum Leap.

That was like my first big crush when I was like, four or five years old. I think we, I think we all had a crush on. Oh, yeah, yeah. And so I knew for a while, and I'd been getting called a fatt since I was like 11, you know, like at that point, because I was like, I was a pretty obviously gay kid to, I read as gay to most people. Right. And so. Sorry to interrupt, but at that age, at like 11, is it, do you have to check yourself? Like, should I try and navigate, or you're just kind of being yourself and taking the hits? I, I mean, that's definitely around the time when I really started to like fold into myself and like realized because I also grew up very religious and so then that was around the time

that I realized oh these things that I'm feeling are actually really wrong and like I started praying every day to change it you know I would like do everything I could to deny it at that point yeah but like once I got to high school and it was like I think gay men who can't hide do one of two things that either make themselves so small that they're invisible and no one will notice them or talk to them or about them or or you become funny and you sort of give it right back to people or you become the class clown or you or the funny guy and that's like a shield of it in of itself and I think that's where the stereotype that gay men are funny really comes from because so many of us had to do that and and that's where

I started to develop my sense of humor was really just like my bullies like right uh in high school I thought it was just a natural gift you know I think like I always like I was always a ham, you know, like since I was a little kid, I always loved attention. And so I would figure out ways to do that. But like my, the ways I would make my family laugh would be like a giant burp. You know, like, yeah, just like timing. The timing and like, you know, contrasts and stuff like that. But like I never, you know, watched a lot of stand up when I was growing up. Not because I, you know, I absorbed a lot of stand. Like I, my mom was a huge Paul Pell fan. so I want uh paula poundstone sorry and so I would uh we watched Paula Poundstone specials a lot

I remember on my my space the people that I admired slideshow that I had on my space included Kathleen Madigan because for some reason I had seen like one of her specials on late night at yeah central or something like that's great and and then Margaret obviously it was like a huge inspiration to me for a lot of reasons but like honestly like the big stand up like I was not a teenager or in during like the golden age of stand-up comedy. Right. At the time when I was coming up and as a comic I think really was like the last great

golden age that we had where there were so many shows and so many of us working. But like, you know, Dane Cook was the number one guy when I was in high school. And no shade to Dane Cook. I laughed too. I thought he's a funny guy. But nothing that Dane Cook was doing said, this is for you. Right, right. Because this was still a time when like you go, you would go to a comedy show

And as a gay person or as a woman or as anything, you would sort of expect to be at some point the joke. Right. Like especially if they were doing crowd work or something like that, I would always be like, oh, God, not me because then they'll know and then they'll make this a thing. And so I never felt like, oh, this is a viable career path. This is a dream that I should make good on. Right. I enjoyed it. It just like, it wasn't until I moved to Chicago and started to experience the quote unquote alt scene in Chicago, which now, looking at.

now looking at the landscape of comedy, the fact that we considered any of these people, Beth Stelling was like one of the top alt comedians in Chicago and it's like nothing that Beth does is alternative. She's a very like traditional stand, like great standup comedian. But it was just so funny that back then, if you were gay, a woman or a marginalized like racial identity other than black, you were considered all.

Yeah, it's really true. Even if you were doing the same shit that everybody else was doing, but just talking about your life instead. It's like, oh, we're going to listen. of them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the all part of it. So, yeah, I mean, and I did, like, there were, like,

altie comedians in Chicago, like the Potter Boss sisters, their show with Beth, entertaining Julia, was like, I mean, that was, like, one of the top shows. Like, Robin Williams dropped in on that show. It was, like, a bar show that, like, 60 people max could fit into, you know? And so that was, like, really, that was, like, a magical, like, time to be coming up in Chicago was when that kind of stuff was happening,

and those shows existed. Yeah. So did you, when you start, when standup starts to be a bit of a thing and you're deciding, okay, I'm going to like head this direction, are you still writing plays on the side? Or is it because you had such a drama focus? You were like, that's a separate thing from where I'm going to. I wrote, when I moved to New York, I still had a lot of connections in Chicago. I think I wrote two plays that got put up in Chicago.

And right as I was leaving Chicago, my first full-length play. produced in Chicago and did very well. Really? What was it about? It was called Kate and Sammer Not Breaking Up and it was about like a Kristen Stewart Robert Pattinson-esque Hollywood couple who starred in a YA fantasy adaptation movie series who break up and their fans go crazy and two of their fans are especially crazy, kidnap them and forced them to do couples therapy in the basement of this loser's house.

And it like kind of works. And like, and it was like, it was a really fun, dumb conceit to play with, but I did it. And that was like, if I stayed in Chicago, I probably could have made a real go at it. But like, it really was like, I looked at like, in order to be a playwright who's living off of being a playwright, you got to be prolific. And I just didn't, I didn't bet on myself in that way. It's so hard. And so, of course, I just stand-up comedy, which is like infinitely easier, I guess. Yeah, but at least, yeah, at least when you're alone and broke, it's just you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. At least people are where you're counting on you. My daughter's finding her way in New York now, and all her friends are from college, and they're all theater kids, and they're getting productions going and stuff. It's such a special time. Yeah. When you're young and the theater, I mean, stand-up's great, TV's great, it's all great. But that thing, that communal theater thing is just so unique.

with other people, like, collaborating on that stuff. Like, it is the thing that, like, I do miss, and that stand-up doesn't really provide you with all the time is, like, the collaborative aspect. Yeah. There's certainly a community aspect. Like, we're all in it together. We're all at the mics.

We're all at these shows. Yeah. But it's not as interactive with your peers as the other guys in that great way. We'd like to thank the good people at tompapa.com. Oh, what a great organization. They are really good people. It's really nice when you can do an ad for someone who you really truly love. We love all the people at Tompapa.com.

My tour is just expanded. We added a whole bunch of new dates. We're going all the way through the end of the year. We just released a whole bunch of dates. Some of the big highlights. We've got Atlantic City two shows at the Borgata in Atlantic City in July. We have the big Netflix is a joke festival. on May 5th. I'm doing a big show at the Ebell Theater as part of the festival on the 5th.

And also big news, October 24th, Paramount Theater, Denver, Denver, two shows recording my next Netflix special. New Netflix special, you can be there for the recording, and then there's a whole bunch of other dates as part of the Grateful Dead tour at tompapa.com. We'd also like to let you know about our Patreon. Our Patreon for Breaking Bread is available. We have extra content. You get ad-free episodes.

It's a great way to support the podcast. So head over to Patreon, Breaking Bread with Tom Papa at Patreon, and you'll get some of the inside scoop, some of the extra bonus stuff, and support our podcast all at the same time. Thank you, everybody. We'd like to thank the good people at Quince for sponsoring today's program.

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and is going to be using Monarch to figure out, I've got to say, I'm a little nervous to see what we're spending, what we're spending it on. And I would guess how much money we're losing. I know. There's been a lot of money spent on olive oil that wasn't accounted for. There's a lot of parking stubs that were just like floating for people. It is going to be good, though, to finally have it all organized. It's going to help us set goals. It's going to help us prepare for big purchases and use features like the Sankey diagram and weekly recaps to see exactly what we're spending the most on.

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It's a great way to take control of your financial life. We love Monarch. Use the code Papa, PAPA at Monarch.com to get your first half, first year. Half off. That's just $50.00. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with the code Papa. P.A.P.A. Now you're on Scrubs. Yeah. And that's great. And it's a fun and all these great people and stuff. But at the end of your tapings, I'm sure not everybody's like going to so-and-so's apartment and hanging out and getting high. It's just, you just, we're all grown-ups. Exactly. It's that time of your life combined with theaters such a special thing. And yeah, that's the thing is I think the younger actors on Scrubs are doing a lot of that. Probably.

But like, I'm at this point, I'm like, I want to go home, watch something with my husband over FaceTime, smoke a joint, and go to bed. Like, I'm not. Over FaceTime, where is he? Well, because the scrub shot in Vancouver. Oh, it did. Oh, you know, it's so funny, whenever I saw, when I saw the billboards and stuff and that it was coming back, because I lived over there by that old abandoned hospital where they shot the

first one, where they knocked it down. I pictured you all over there. Yeah, no, they recreated it on a. soundstage in Vancouver to a T. Like all the all the OG actors were so wigged out by it because they were like we spent 10 years of our life in this hospital. And now it's here in Vancouver and like the bathrooms are all at different places. Like I used to be able to exit off this part of and go to the bathroom and now I don't know where the fuck I am anymore. But they recreated everything exactly. And the hope is I think, you know, we've all talked and begged and asked Zach to advocate for this, but to move it back to LA. Seeing as the first season has been such a big success for them and like we have not officially been picked up yet for season two, but I do know that it's doing quite well. So it would be, it seems popular. It would be wild, I think, if it didn't. But, you know, knock on wood, return to the sound clip when it does. It would be so great if it just came back to L.A.

Yeah. Really? Yeah. I miss like loot shot in L.A. I got really lucky. Most of the stuff I've done in the last three or four years have shot in L.A., which is an anomaly. Yeah. You know, this is the first time I've had to spend an extended period of time in Vancouver or another city to shoot something. Yeah. I know. I mean, that's why we lived. That's why we lived here.

Yeah. You know? I am hearing things. Fortune shot a couple things here recently. And I did this small part in this Chris Rock thing. Not a big deal. And it was here. And I was thinking about you because I played a doctor.

And I had the white coat with the stethoscope over my thing. And I said, you're now a doctor. Yeah. Did you have to do medical jargon? No. No. It was pure emotional. Just talking to somebody.

I have gotten a few of the more jargony things, which is like funny because I have no idea what I'm saying. Right. There's also the same when I did industry on HBO, which is all about like finance bros and stuff like that. And it's very like esoteric in the weeds with like finance language. And I don't like I could have been speaking fucking Greek the entire time I was on that set because I had no idea what I was doing or saying. And I at one point post this, I like put the lines into Gemini. And I was like, can you explain what I'm saying here like a gay guy would? And they like explained all this shit that I was saying, but like in the vernacular of like a really,

really gay guy. Was it accurate? It was accurate. Yeah. Yeah. It's really funny. It's really funny. obviously, you know, mixed feelings about AI in general. Don't use chat GBT because the guy who started is evil. But they're all draining lakes for our enjoyment. And so it's like a complicated thing. But it is so fun because like we asked it, my husband asked it recently on an Uber right home. What's the gayest word? Because we were chatting about it at the party we were at with a bunch of friends.

And it spat back like, oh, like I all love is love. And I see humans as equal. and I will not participate in blah, blah, blah. And then he just wrote back, but I'm gay. And then it was like, oh, queen, slay, boot. Like, it was just like, it was like, oh, in that case, then, sorry, my bad. And so it's like moments like that do really make me laugh. I know.

It is, I was talking about this the other day. It's, my daughter is really, the college graduate is, they're just, their whole community is, no. There's nothing, there's no question you can come up with that's worth. draining this lake. Well, thank God. I mean, honestly, the kids are all right then. I know. And I'm like just... I know, I have friends. I was at a friend was visiting for his birthday. He got in an Airbnb and it was Sunday and they were checking out the next morning and we were all a little fucked up still and he was like, I need a late checkout. And he could not draft the message to the Airbnb owner himself. He had to have Chad GBT do it for him to ask for a late

checkout. And I was like, it's two sentences. Yeah. Like this is not. That's not good. No, that's not good. And it is scary because when I hosted the WGA Awards, I had my monologue already written. Like, I knew what I was doing. But just for fun, I was like, can you write me an opening monologue

in the voice of Joel Kim Booster for the WGA Awards? And it sped out. And I promised myself no matter what it would do. I would not use any of the jokes because it would just feel too gross. But there are some really good ones. Really?

It was really scary. Really? In your voice? In my voice. Oh. It was really scary. It was like, there were at least two that I was like, God, I wish I actually could use this one. But like, I didn't do it.

And it was just, um, yeah. As much fun as I have with it too. I draw the line at anything creative. I just, I'm not going to ask it for any of that stuff. When I'm writing like a script or something like that, I will use it in the same way I would use like a writing assistant in that like, you know, my next movie is a wedding comedy. And at one point I was like, what do officians say during the wedding ceremony? And I asked it.

I was like, can you just give me like a, a, little like officiant like sort of Google stuff. Yeah. It is like it's like it's easier than Google at some points. I mean it's less it lies to you too. That's the big thing. Yeah. Is it lies like Jacqueline Novak just had this happen. She's learning how to code and she asked it for help and it was like oh yeah I can do that

working on it right now. Hold on just a few more minutes almost there got it and then spat out some code didn't work. And Jacqueline Winton was like what gives? And it was like oh I can't actually do that. But you were so enthusiastic about wanting to learn that I didn't want to upset you. And it's like, so then she had to ask it, well, what can I, how can I put this in so that you won't lie to me? And it spat out like all these prompts you have to say before you ask your question to make sure it doesn't lie to you. And you shouldn't be using it as a search engine at all because the fact is is it pulls from every place on the internet, including Reddit. So it's like, so it's so the information that it's polling is not always correct. Like at the early day, I don't know if this is still a huge problem But like it would tell people that Pregnant women could smoke at least three cigarettes a day

Like I remember that one It was like you can leave a baby in a car Yeah there was all these cases where it was like Pulling random stuff snippets from like Reddit post Oh my God And just like misinterpreting them And like yeah So but yeah the people who I know who like can't write an email

Can't do anything without it It's terrible It's driving me crazy and I'm glad to hear that your daughter's generation is very anti, at least some of them are, because I know. I worry that like Gen Alpha is just like, because I have a friend who's a teacher outside of the bay at a really nice school, and she said most of her eighth grade

boys are reading at like a second grade level. Oh my Lord. And so I'm like, great, we have a whole generation coming up who can't read and we'll be writing all of their papers using AI. So we'll have a whole generation who can't read her, right? And the AI will have their jobs anyway, so they're just going to be doing what?

What are they gonna do with all their aggression? Yeah. Oh, that's terrifying. Yeah. I get what she's saying, and I don't want to be a problem, but I said, look, newsflash, your dad doesn't know everything. Yeah. He's, there's a lot of things your dad doesn't know. Yeah.

And like, how, like, how do I see her tuna? Well, and it's the thing is, is actually, that is a really helpful thing I often will do is I'll open my fridge. And I started learning how to cook during the pandemic because I realized I had no hobbies other than media. consumption because I turned all my hobbies into work. And so I was like, oh, I'll start to learn how to cook because I knew I'd never get good enough at it to try and like leverage it. Yeah, monetize it any sort of way. But oftentimes I will look in the fridge or the cupboard and be like, okay, I have these ingredients. What is something I can make with these ingredients? And it usually is pretty reliable. Yeah. It's getting out something edible. But it is one of these things where like, yes, it's bad for the

environment. But like you have to make your line, your personal line, wherever you can make it. And you cannot judge other people if the line is different because the fact is, it's like, there's very few things that we engage with in our culture, in American culture, that aren't rooted in something deeply evil. Like Amazon, is your daughter using Amazon? Does she have an iPhone? Does she, you know, like all these things. Like, I know. And it's really just has to, at the end of the day, I figured out, like, I cannot judge that there's obviously certain things that are, just categorically wrong that I will judge people for. But like stuff like using AI and and for bits and stuff like that. I'm just sort of like, yeah, I, you know, I wouldn't do that. I try not to do

that. But who am I to talk sitting here with my iPhone? Yeah. That was like, you know, they basically use slave labor to make. Right. So like no one can have the high moral high ground. No, you're right. right now because everything you touch in this country is is connected to some form of of you know taking advantage of somebody cruelty yeah cruelty that's the big word that just keeps banging around in my head it's like why is everything have to be literally based on cruelty it is like a fine line to walk between like being sort kind of throwing your hands up and saying like well nothing i do matters then and so there is no ethical consumption under capitalism so i'm just going to do whatever the fuck i want and on the other side of that being like an

extremely judgmental, like, holier than thou person. And I think there's a middle ground of, like, there are things we can do to mitigate and be responsible with our money and our time. But like, when it, I just try not to like judge other people or like be a scold about it because it just, it gets to a point where you go down that rabbit hole and it's, there's no end to it. Yeah, and you can't really defend yourself. No, yeah, exactly. Yeah, ultimately. I just, I just take it when she gets on me. How old is she? Yeah, it's all right.

23. 23. Yeah. That's about, yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, and makes a lot of really great points. And I learn a lot from her. But I really like AI.

It just helps me out of a lot of jams. Even just when I'm writing and I'm like, how do I make this all caps with one key stroke rather than, you know what I mean? It's really the tech to tech stuff is like. That's what I use for the most. Well, that's crazy because you can't even use Google without unintentionally using AI now because it generates the AI answer

to most questions at the top of the Google result. So if you're using Google at all, actually, at this point, you're complicit in AI. Yeah. So it's one of these things where, yeah. How has it been with the scrub fans? Because it was such a... Yeah.

It seemed to me that... And I think this is because everybody aged really well. Yeah. Like when Arrested Development came back, it was like, ooh, what are we watching? Yeah. And everyone just... Everyone looks like a slightly older version of themselves, not a lateral move, different face, human being. Right.

Because of the work that they've done. Like, I don't know the work situation. I know Sarah Chalkas had no work done. She's very afraid of it. Yeah. And I remember her daughter came in at one point and was like giving her mom notes after a scene. She's cute. She's an adorable little girl.

And she was like, I didn't like all the facial expression. you were making in that scene, Mommy. And I turned her and it's like, you should be thinking your lucky stars that Mommy can make facial expressions, right? Because a lot of women in her position cannot. So be glad that she has full range of motion in her face.

And she's still so gorgeous. And so, yeah, it is, that is a huge part of it. The fans have been, honestly, like, I was really scared because I am not only a new character on this, but like, you know, Johnson McGinley is such a beloved character on that show and he's only in three episodes of the season. And narratively, I function as sort of a stand-in.

I am the only antagonist on the show at this point for Zach Brath. And there used to be at least three on the show. And they were all beloved the janitor and Kelso and Dr. Cox were all like these beloved characters. And so I have a lot of heavy lifting to do on my own. And I'm also new. And I also don't get as much real estate in the plot. So I'm sort of like, you know, slow development over the course of the season, I think. Uh-huh.

But the fans have all been really, really great, honestly. Like, I, you know, I poke my head into the Reddit now and then. And, like, the only negative stuff I've seen have been in the context of someone saying, like, I know this is unpopular to say, but I really hate Joel Kambuster on this show. And then, like, and then, you know, people come in and say, you're wrong. So it's like, it's like, yeah, it's an unpopular opinion. So I feel really blessed that the fans have been as kind to me as, as they have been. Because it is scary stepping into a reboot like this because there is so much expectation.

And there's so often these like sort of soulless cash grabs that have no resemblance to the original show. And, you know, I think the consensus is that we did a pretty good job of matching the tone and matching the energy of the original. Yeah. There is a thing when it's when it's that style comedy, there's more grace from the audience. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's like. And I think that's the thing is like so many comedies.

like don't have jokes. And our show is a really joke-dense show. And it's also the first time I've done a network show in a while. And it's crazy how fast you have to go. Because 22 minutes, this is a half an hour is an eternity. Those eight minutes are an eternity. Yeah.

And so like we all had to learn how to, like we were all doing Gilmore Girls speed like pretty much the entire time because otherwise our lines would get cut or stuff would get cut because there's just no time. Jeez. It's amazing to have to even tell a story in that amount of time. Yeah. It really is bonkers.

And not only that, but our show usually has an ABCD plot, you know, like going on. So it's just like, there's a lot of shit happening that they have to cover. And, you know, there's five new intern characters. There's me, there's Vanessa Bayer. Like, there's a lot of two new nurses, like a lot of new characters to service while also trying to make sure that you're honoring the old characters and making sure that they still feel like the stars of the show. How much lighter or slash more fun, or maybe it's not more fun, but how much lighter

is it when you just roll onto a set as an actor with your lines memorize, do the act, get in the car, and you're gone, as opposed to when you're in the writer's room, working on stuff, getting notes, doing all that stuff. I mean, I say this, and this is not always a popular thing amongst people in my circle to say, but acting is the easiest job in the whole fucking world. I'm sorry, it is.

It's 90% sitting around waiting, drinking the quah, going to craft services, And then you're treated like a goddamn king, even if you're like a very small world like me. And like, and it's like you either got it or you don't, I think ultimately at the end of the day. I think acting and kissing are very similar. And that like when I went to acting school, like the people who came in good got a little bit better and the people who came in not good did not get good. Right. And it's like kissing is the same.

I think you can move the needle with a bad kisser like a little bit. but I do think it's largely intuitive, like, rhythm. Right. And I think acting is the same way. And so I think... It's funny, I never heard it put that way, but you're exactly right. And so it really is, like, I find it to be, like, so... Like, it's insane.

And it is, by far and away, like, the thing, the kind of jobs that I make the most money from, too. Right. It's insane. Yeah. It's so crazy. And you think about the amount of work when you have to get notes from the network and... I mean, I, I mean, I, I don't. And so I wrote, starred, and it produced Fire Island.

And that was the most gratifying thing I've ever done in my career. Tell me about the beginning of that. Did you just get to a position where, like, you kind of always had it and you figured I've got enough clout to get this made now? Or was it? I definitely didn't know. I don't know about clout because it started as a quibby. Right. So quite honestly.

Like it started as a half hour comedy show idea that I took out and no one was interested in buying this. this, and I wrote it on spec. No one was interested in a show about a bunch of gay guys going to Fire Island for a week. Really? What year was that? This was 2018, 2019. And, no, it was in 2019, yeah. And then Quibi bought it.

They were the only ones who was interested. They're like, can you make it a movie instead that we could split up into ten parts? And I was like, sure. And that's where the private prejudice of it all came into it as well. And then famously Quibi folded pretty quickly. And they were really kind and they gave us the rights back to the script that I had written for them. Oh, that's great. And we were ready.

We took it out and within a month, the searchlight had bought it and was going to put it on streaming. So it wasn't so much cloud, I think, is like there was like I was writing in rooms enough that I had my foot in the, to get some of those meetings. But again, like nobody wanted to produce my pilot version of this. It's crazy because, I mean, all these stories are always crazy, but when that came out, it felt like it was like about time that a film like this came out. Yeah. It felt like that. Like the timing of it from the outside was, oh, why wasn't this a thing before? Did you feel that?

Yeah, I definitely felt that. And I felt it in a lot of different, from a lot of different POVs because I think like obviously like bros. came out that same year too was the first theatrically released studio-backed gay rom-com. We were another studio-backed gay rom-com. Both of us, that had never happened

before. Right. You know, like, anything beyond, anything that was a rom-com and gay was a very, very indie up until that point. And now, I think, like, so it did feel like you know, while we were making it, I try not to think a lot about it.

Yeah. Because if you get in that, headspace of like, oh, this is going to be important. And it really hobbles you and creatively in so many ways. And so I tried to keep that out on my head. But then, of course, like, the movie we're doing press for it. And suddenly the weight of that really hits you. Right. Okay, this thing I made is going to be important to a lot of people and hated by a lot of people

because there's not that many of them. That's the thing is that no one hates my movie more than gay Asian guys. Certain gay Asian guys. Because we only get, we got two movies that summer. Right. I don't think we've had two movies in any summer sense. Right. You know, and when you have so little movies or television that is for you or speaks to your experience,

when the one thing that does comes along, everyone in the community wants it to represent everyone in the community. And that's not going to be a good movie. I wrote very specifically about my experience. Yeah. And whether or not you connected to it or vived with that was not my concern. But people still, because it was one of the few things. things that we'd gotten was we're very upset when it didn't accurately depict their experience

of being gay or navigating the community. And it's this double-edged sort of like writing, you know, from a marginalized quote-unquote perspective is that like people think that DEI made it so much easier to get this kind of shit made. But at the end of the day, it's going to be like you, you watch something and you realize it's not for you. You change the channel. There's a hundred other things that are tailored to you that you can find. that that'll speak to you. For us, we change the channel and there's nothing else going on.

So we're going to be really hard and really, really tough on the stuff that does that is supposed to represent us, quote unquote. But you can't think about any of this during the process. You can't think about it. So your special was 22, 23?

2022. It's funny. Yeah, it came out the same summer as Fire Island. So it was a big summer for me. Wow. I really blew my load and then sort of said nothing for a while. So where does your, working on another film and you're acting. Working on another film, doing scrubs. So where to stand-up?

I'm touring right now. I'm touring, quote-unquote. It's, I'm doing all of the off-market places that I didn't hit on my last tour in 2024. Oh, that's good. So I'm doing like Tampa, Milwaukee, yeah, Orlando, you know, like places that I, I've mostly never been to before. And really, I having a lot of fun right now. Because I wasn't planning on touring. Honestly, this tour came about because I didn't book anything for a while. So I had all this time. What a blessing. And I'm having a blast doing it because it is like the most time I've had to devote to stand

up since my last tour. Yeah. And it's been fun to really like be going up preparing around L.A. and working on the bits individually. And like there's still a lot of stuff from my hour in the last tour, which is part of the reason where we're doing the off marketplaces this time. But there's like about a half hour of new material on it too. And I'll say like,

that hour that I toured, you know, we, we taped it. We wanted to try and sell it as my next special. And the market had shifted in a certain way. And I honestly, looking back, I don't think it was as strong as it is now with some of the new material and the sort of the shaping that I've done to it. Right. And so I'm kind of, I feel grateful in a sense that that Netflix or HBO or any of these places just passed on it because like if I had put that version of the special out, I think I would look back on it and really like, be like, oh, this could have been a lot better. Man, it's always the way, right? Yeah.

The longer you wait, just, it's, you get disappointed or, you know, you always want it, you always want, but it always gets stronger. Yeah. It just gets stronger. Well, and I'm so happy with it now that if we don't get like an official bite, and this is the thing now is that like 10 years ago, this would seem so sad, but I'm releasing this shit on YouTube. No kidding.

Because it's like, that's, I guarantee you, Mateo released his first special on YouTube. and I guarantee more people have seen it on YouTube than have seen my Netflix special. I guarantee it. And it's like if you want eyes on it, like that's the place to be right now. It's real. It's real. Pete Holmes just put his up on YouTube.

Yeah. And he's already millions of views. Yeah. And we just have my buddy Paul who's, you know, not a well-known act. And he has an audience. And you just put it up on YouTube. Well, I mean, that's the crazy thing.

I don't know. Are you doing this? But like this tour, I did not have to work or hustle to sell out my last tour. It was like very easy in the U.S. and in Europe I didn't have to. I only, the only place in Europe I didn't sell out was Paris. Wow. And this was after the special?

Yeah, this was after my Netflix special. Right. This time, because of A, the economy, you know, this is the first thing to go. And all these places have jacked up the prices. Like, I wouldn't spend $55 to see me either right now. You know, like that's insane. But I've had to really hustle and I've had to start doing the social media. game, which is so new to me. Because I just, when I was coming up, we were also protective of

material. I know. You didn't put shit out there because you didn't want to burn it. And like, that's why there's so many shitty crowdwork clips going around right now is because people don't have the material that they want to burn on it. But I always was like looking at that being like, man, I'm so glad I don't have to do that. But it is the one way to get butts in seats these days. Absolutely. Like if you're not like super famous already. Yeah. If you're super famous, it could sustain But everybody else, the other 90%, you know, you'll have something pop and you'll have a tour that's selling like crazy. But that's going to kind of level and then you got to hustle. Well, and the thing about it too is, is that like, I'm very happy.

I know you do like theaters and shit. Yeah. And I've done a couple. Like I've opened for Nikki a couple times in a theater. I've done, I did the Greek for this big festival show. like I've done bigger spaces like that, but I'm very happy in a 500 seat room, like max. And like that is what I know I can sell out reasonably. Yeah.

And I find the stadium theater, like people who do that, like Mateo who does like big ass theaters and sells those out, it's a different skill set. It's a completely different skill set to me than doing standup in an intimate like, you know, 250 to 500 seat room. Yeah, there's a threshold where it becomes a different thing. Because like I do like to like, for me, standup is so much about the immediacy of like me in the room with those people. Yeah. And like the relationship I form with those people, which is also why I'm so averse to putting clips out online.

Because as soon as you take it out of that context of the people that were there with me in the room who saw the entire hour. Yeah. A lot of it's just not going to hit the same or it'll seem really like the stuff that seems quote unquote problematic in the context of the whole hour is fine. or because I developed trust in a relationship with that specific audience, it works. And some some pacings live better in radio or clip. Yeah. They're like that.

You're more of a, you, there's a whole presence about you. There's a story. There's a, we get to know each, and you know me from this. And then I'm pulling in and here's the story and we're going back and forth. Clip that down to a minute. It's like, it's not gonna be as powerful. Yeah. Well, and that's honestly, that's my beef with a lot of specials these days too, is that like, if you're going to call it a special, then like use the medium in a different way than just approaching it like a film stand-up show.

Because like my thing is, it's like you have such an opportunity. Like some of my favorite specials are like Cape Burlance Cinnamon in the Wind, I think is one of my favorite specials that has come out in recent memory. because it's like it's stand-up but it's like have you seen it no it's it's in a full a mirror a very small like dance studio almost it's in black and white beau burnham directed it and it's like uh 360 cameras behind the mirrors there's mirrors like on every wall basically floor to ceiling and it is like i've seen kate do this hour many times but it felt like something so new and different because of the way it was shot and because of the medium and the way it was directed. And so I'm always like, listen, I mean, Robbie Hoffman is my other favorite special of recent

memory. And hers is just basically a film set. And it's still great. So I'm not saying that like, that can't be good. I'm just saying like for me, like, I'm always thinking about like, okay, if I'm going to call it a special, then how am I going to make this fucking special? Right, right. Yeah, yeah. Add stuff to it. It's your theater background. Yeah. Right. No, that absolutely is. When I talk about like the immediacy of like live performance and like what can the electricity that happens from like being in a room and knowing that what you're seeing, there are parts of it that will only happen for you. Yeah. It's like so special. And then you take that crowd work out and try and introduce it to the internet and suddenly it's not so special.

Yeah. And back to your point about the size of the theaters. I mean, what a blessing that 500 human beings will leave their homes. and come into that theater and spend the night watching your act. It's such a, you know, even when, if I'll sell 900 seats and it's a bigger place, and you're like, oh, well, no, this is 900 people. 900 people. Yeah, it's crazy.

I mean, it's so funny how your bar changes as you, as it should. But if you told me 15 years ago that I would be, like, upset that. I can only sell out like a 500 seat theater. I'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about? Who are you? We can barely get 15 people to come up to some of these bar shows. Like I've performed, I've performed for, with more people on the lineup than in the audience.

So many times, more times than I could fucking count. I know. And it's like, yeah. It's so funny that like, now I'm like pissed if I don't sell out the 500 seat theater. But it sounds like you still really love the creating of it. Oh yeah. Yeah.

It is like, it is the, it's sort of the intersection of everything I love to do, right? And perform and produce and direct and like all of this stuff. Yeah. Is all wrapped up into this one thing. And like, and it is also, like, listen, a lot of people love to attribute my success to DEI. They'll say like, oh, like if you weren't gay and Asian, like you wouldn't have a career because that's all you fucking talk about, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I see the comments. But my thing about standup is is that it is the.

closest thing to a meritocracy will experience in the entertainment industry because in that moment I'm on stage and I'm either making them laugh or I'm not making them laugh. And when I'm making them laugh, you can't tell me shit because nobody laughs for a full hour because of woke. Because they're forcing themselves because they want to feel woke about it. It doesn't work. Yeah, your face will never hurt from it. That's not how how laughter or audiences operate. Like even the people who are rooting for you, if you're not being funny, they're not going to laugh. And so like part of the reason I will always want to do stand up is like there is so much politics involved in getting a movie made or getting a part in a, you know, like acting especially, it's like this this terrible catch 22. If you need to be famous to get the part, but you need to get the part in order to become famous.

You know. And like talking about like value and like the, you know, there is a lot more. It's not like, oh, the best actor gets it. Right. Because everybody's good. Yeah. When everybody's good, then like, you know, you do have to start looking at other factors. But I will always want to do stand-up because that feeling of being in the moment and like,

it's so gratifying. Yeah. It's like, oh, like, this is unadulterated. Like, I am good at this. Right, exactly. And like no one, no comment about any of that shit will take that away from me in that moment. Don't you have that when you're, uh, when you're just in town and you just go off and do a spot and it's like if you haven't done a spot like in a couple days or whatever and you're

You're just knocking around your place and you're thinking about what role you're going to have next or calling your manager back or any of all of the show busy, Mishigas. And then you go and you, the minute you walk off stage from doing that spot at 10 o'clock wherever, the whole world is right. Yep. All that stuff is such ancillary BS. And you're just, this is, you just, you get back in that car and you're right. You're literally physically and mentally correct. especially if you're doing new shit, like if a new joke hits. My husband knows exactly how the show went by the energy I bring home.

Yeah. After the set. Yeah. He knows if it went well or if the new thing that I was excited about didn't go well or I haven't figured it out yet. But like that is the most, that is still the most exciting part of stand-up to me is those those like 10-minute spots where you're like, okay, how am I going to talk about pigeons tonight? Like, why didn't the pigeon joke hit last night? Like, let's try to rewrite this a little bit or adjust it a little bit

so the pigeon works tonight. And then when it does, when you crack it, it feels so good. Yeah. It's funny. My wife does the same thing when I come home. Like, you know, it's just been so many years. But if I come back and after like 10 minutes,

she is getting a cranky vibe, she'll just be like, how was the set? It was fine. What? Yeah. It was fine. How can people keep track of your tour and stuff? Yeah, if you go to my Instagram, I hate Joel Kim on Instagram.

The link in my bio goes to all my tour dates and tickets, ticket links to those dates. Because I hate Joel Kim from the early days of when you were. That was sort of like, I was like, well, I'll get there before anyone else does. A little Eminem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was just like, I don't know, it felt like a funny thing. It was back when people were still doing screen names and not just their name. So it was, yeah.

And now I feel like I just can't change it at this point. You can't make it I love Joel. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, and it, but yeah, go and check that out. I would love to see you at some of these dates. I'm having a blast on this tour. And the audiences have been really fun because a lot of them have never seen me live before. Right. That's great.

You know, it's just a lot of new people, which is also the difficulty. But it is like, you know, Because like I go to Brooklyn now and do the Bell House, it's not hard to sell out. Right. Because I was there for seven years and there's still a lot of built-in people who enjoyed seeing me around there who will come to that show. But yeah, and right now I don't think I'm selling Fort Lauderdale super heavy. So if you're in Fort Lauderdale listening, please come. Please come.

I swear. I just came from there and I wasn't sell. It was, it was a work. But then in the end they showed up. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I especially don't. Like, people will spend the money if they have it in the moment,

but like to spend $60 sometimes upwards of $60 after fees on a ticket to a stand-up show when you could spend that on a lot of other more interesting things than me on stage with a mic. No, I mean, like, their idea of like, go and seeing you in Fort Worth a day or some bullshit. You know, like, it is like there's so many, there's so many like acts now that I think are doing. doing more than just like standing behind a micro like Julio Torres like you go see a Julio Torres show that is a piece of theater yeah it's funny as hell yeah but it is like again like his specials have all felt like they could not have been done that way

in a live space right on its own like now but like his shows feel that feel that feel different and textured in a way that like I would go and spend because the production value is so big and like you know you're seeing something but it's just me behind a microphone pacing the state for an hour? Yeah, but they're going to come out of that show with their faces sore and their bellies and their... That's so. Yeah, no. You're great. And keep making more stuff. Just keep making stuff. That's the plan. It's fun to gobble it up. Thank you. Enjoy the bread. Oh, I will. I'm hoping that you stopped eating just because you

were talking. Well, I realized the complication of eating on Mike is... Right. That's why we cut this part. People really get mad. This one's too hard. Yeah, that's what that's what... I experienced. But like yeah, people get really mad at you and they can hear you chiro. They really do. They really don't like it. Yeah, you're talking to someone who based their whole podcast on, well just eat. That changed real quick. Yeah, so you're welcome everyone listening. I stopped eating the bread, but I'm gonna make a hell of a fucking sandwich when I get home. All right, great. So I'm excited. You're the best. Come back anytime. Yeah, thank you for having you. All right. We got a kid.