Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 32 - Chris Thile, Bert Kreischer, and Cooking on Sundays.

Episode Date: December 15, 2020

Chris Thile is a Grammy award-winning musician, host of Live From Here, and a lover of great wine, food, and coffee. Bert Kreischer is a hilarious comedian who is working on the perfect salmon dish. And we talk about why it's important to cook on Sunday.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey! sourdough. Hey, it's time for Breaking Bread with Papa. Hey, don't you know, it's also a show. Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. I'm Tom Papa. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for being a part of this wonderful podcast where we discuss all things food and comedy and all of the things that bring us joy in our lives. We have two great guests today. We've got the amazing Chris Thiele. brilliant musician and good friend of mine, and also the hilarious Burke Kreischer chimes in on this new salmon recipe that he's desperately, desperately trying to perfect. Thank you so much for

subscribing to the podcast. Thank you for spreading the word, giving us nice reviews. I love hearing all of your feedback. It's great to hear that a lot of people are listening to us while they're enjoying food themselves, opening up a bottle of wine, thinking about what they're. Thinking about what going to cook and they've got us playing in the background, that's kind of my favorite. I also love a couple people have been posting pictures of the sauces that we've spoke about and the different breads and the different things. It's nice to see it actually coming to fruition. It's really, really great. So thank you for your continued support because I just enjoy doing this so much. It's just, you can't stop exploring these things. Comedy, food.

wine, done. Before we start off and go to our interview with Chris and Bert, let's talk a little bit about Sundays. Let's talk a little bit about Sundays. What are you doing with your Sundays? How dare you not make Sunday your big food day? Everybody's in the same rhythm. Even during this time when you've got weird work habits and stuff, Sunday's still a Sunday. You still have that one pause after whatever kind of enjoyment you tried to squeeze out a Friday and Saturday and whatever work and responsibility you have coming up on Monday, Sunday stands alone. And it is, without a doubt, the place, the day, the time where you should stretch out and explore some of the finer things. crack open a bottle of wine and start cooking. Don't order in on a Sunday. We all want to support our local restaurants. Look, when things are opened up to slide out for a Sunday meal with your friends,

fine. But if, excuse me, if you're home, that's when you start to stretch out a little bit. I'm going to post a recipe for baked rigatoni with peppers and olives. So, So good. This is what I, this is, to me, this is what Sunday is. You go a little bigger, a little broader, take a little more time. You can, there's nothing better to me than starting the cooking early and ending the meal early on a Sunday. Then you have your Sunday night to kind of hang. You start off in a nice pot with some chopped onions, chopped peppers, a bell pepper. Get that going in some oil with a little garlic. Cook that down. get it soft, then add the garlic. The house is already filled with an aroma that is making everybody poke out of their rooms, look up from their newspaper, and think, what is happening? Someone's doing something, someone's making something, and why are they starting it at two in the afternoon?

That's what Sunday is. fill the house, fill the apartment with just the smells of something that is delicious and we don't know what's coming and take your time and follow this recipe for what is essentially a grown-up Italian mac and cheese. Rigatoni, just a good Sunday noodle. It's got some good size to it. It's got enough opening where the sauce can slide in. You create this sauce with these peppers and the olives and thyme and garlic. You create all of this aroma, all of this sauce, some canned tomatoes. My printer's going crazy.

Some canned tomatoes. And then at the side, you get the rigatoni going. You mix it all together and throw in guare cheese. and a little parmesan, and then you bake that down. You can prep this and just hang on to it. Mix it all up in a bowl, put it in your platter, nice and olive oiled up, and you get it ready. So then you, 35 minutes out from when you really want to start eating, you pop that baby in with a covering of tinfoil. And I just can't tell you.

And while that's going, so you get it all set up, it's all ready, it's all ready to go. You've been cooking all day. You've got it prepped. It's ready. It can just pop in at any moment. Now you're in control of your destiny. Now on the Sunday you're cranking the music. You've opened the bottle of wine.

You're slowly sipping it. The mood is changing. Sound, smell. It's all filled up your house. And now you have control to, what? else you want to add. You want to add some asparagus on the side, some sauteed broccoli, maybe some bread, maybe go crazy and do a garlic bread with it. Now you're starting to explore. Now you're starting to enjoy yourself. And then you bring the family in for an early dinner. You get them to gather

around the table or gather around yourself at around, I don't know, 4.30, 5 o'clock. Yeah, just starting to get dark. You have that big meal. I'm telling you your whole week will change because of this, your entire week. Do you have to make this baked rigatoni? No, you don't. You can make anything you want. But make something. Make something. If you want to follow this recipe and use my little guidance, you wouldn't be dumb. You wouldn't be, you wouldn't be hurting yourself. You will be doing yourself a huge favor. Make the thing. make it big. And then you'll have a lot of it left over for the week as well. That's another little trick of the trade. But really, I can't, I can't sell Sundays enough. This isn't paid. This isn't a

sponsorship. This is Sunday. This is a freebie. This is something that's carved out for all of us to enjoy. And I'm telling you, it's Sunday. Make something big. Cook all day long. Eat as you. crack open the wine and enjoy your life. Chris Dealey is an amazing mandolin player, an amazing musician, composer. He was the host of Prairie Home Companion after Garrison Keeler passed on the reins. And that's where I got to become friends with Chris. Our good friend Flanny, who was on this podcast, introduced us at Largo. and I always love Prairie Home Companion and Chris always loved it and he was kind enough to let me

poke in with the spoken word comedy portion of the show as Chris was cranking out the music and kind of guiding us all directing us all into maintaining the legacy of Prairie Home Companion but also taking it further and when the show changed its name to live from here it just kept rolling and it really became I think as much as we love the prairie home companion and as much as we love the legacy of that the name change of it I think just kind of made it more of Chris's show and he was great at the helm of it to watch him deal with all these musicians was amazing it's I mean it really is another level of musicians relationship and spirit. He is a really, I say in the interview, he has a contagious

personality where you just want to be around him. It's just filled with love and fun and joy and seriousness. And he's just a great guy. And I'm so glad that I got to roll on that show with him for a while, a couple of years and then become friends with him. And why he is perfect for today's podcast. He is also as passionate as he is about music. He's almost as passionate about food and drink. He loves wine. He has a knowledge of wine that is envious. When I'm a lot of times in a wine shop, I will take a picture of a bottle and send it, text it to Chris and ask for his review and he'll know exactly what I'm staring at and whether it's a yes or a no. He loves tiki bars. He loves great meals. He does not, I've never been with him where he has taken a meal

lightly or a drink lightly. It's always very thoughtful and that just adds to the experience of it. We were in an airport in New Orleans coming back from doing the show live from here was on the road. We were in New Orleans. We're flying. back, him and his wife and his son, and it was just that early Sunday morning kind of thing, and you're just in an airport, what are you going to get? Just some kind of cliff bar or something. He, there was nothing open. And he somehow found the makings of a poor boy, a po-boy sandwich, and he bought hot sauce from the gift shop. He put together this concoction was still working hard to make that special.

He's special. This interview is special. I really hope you enjoy it. And then at the end of that interview, we will get a quick bite with our good friend, Bert Kreisher, another person who just sucks everything out of life. And he, this is a very funny quick bite phone call with Bert. He is trying to master a salmon recipe. And I just happen to give him a call at the exact right time. So enjoy the show. Enjoy Christy Lee and Burr. Kreischer. Audio, what's up? I'm sideways.

Hey. Why am I sideways? There you are. What's going on, Tom? Oh, it's so good to see you. So good to see you. I'm trying to get this all figured out here. It looks good.

Get my. Ha, ha. That's probably too loud. Oh, ho. Ha, ah, yeah, I think that's probably. It looks like a nice microphone. It's like a little hotter than that. it's okay.

You know, these, it's like, it doesn't think. I'm like, I think it's better at singing than it is talking. But based on the thing I just did. I was listening to, I always listen to Sirius XM and like listening to different shows. Howard Stern sounds so amazing. And then I looked at it. I was like, he's talking into like a $10,000 microphone. Yeah, totally.

Okay, I think I'm, I think I'm recording now. I want to if I should go like that. Should I go like that? Bravo. So good to see you. Holy cow. Good to see you. Are you in Brooklyn right now?

I'm in Brooklyn. Yep. I'm at my, my little office. Nice. I, I, uh, our office. It was our office for a time. Oh, really? It's the same spot?

It's the same spot, yeah. They haven't kicked me out yet. No way. So I'm just here. Oh, that's amazing. And look, look. I have my map of Barolo behind me. Oh, my God.

That's so great. Yeah, I really, I was like, I was, I was like, why am I not talking to Chris during this new version of the podcast? I mean, there's nobody I should be talking to. You should be actually a weekly guest on this podcast because nobody, because nobody in Nobody enjoys talking about wine and good food and stuff more than you. And when we were working together, I was like, I couldn't believe how you were able to retain it all. That was always the impressive part for me. Well, I have to say, you know, whenever someone dies in your family or someone that you love,

You have to go through a full year to grieve all of the seasons. And then you kind of sludge out of it. And I have to say that live from here is not on the air right now. And we're coming into the holiday season. It's really bothering me right now. Like because the holiday season, like the December shows were always so much fun. Oh, that was the best time for me of the whole. I mean, there's a lot of things that, that I,

I think back on very fondly. I mean, it sounds like it ended forever ago the way I'm saying it. But I do, yeah, the what it did for me just in terms of getting to hang out with people that I love around the holidays. Yeah, yeah. It's really, because like for so many of us, it's so hard to get together unless there's some work element involved. Right, exactly. You know, there's just so much going on all the time. and so you say, oh, we should get together, and then you don't.

And, but with the show, oh, we'll get together and it's this show. So, you know, we got to work. You're right. And then to be able to put on the show and then, you know, go to Marta or whatever it was afterwards. The best. It was such a rich, great show. And I mean, what was so cool, you know, that part of it, like being able to see people and be, and not be touring solo was such a cool thing, especially as a stand-up.

It was like, you know, you're always by yourself. And now you get to be around all these other people. But then also to dip into the music world and watch you and all of those musicians come in. And there was like, there were similarities to comedy. But then there was also this whole other world that I knew nothing about, which was so great to like just brush up against. What were the biggest differences to you?

The amount of serious rehearsal. Oh. The amount of like really, you know, because I would even, you know, when I had my come to pop a like form of that show, it was like, yeah, and just do a song, you know, just get in. Like as a comedian, you just think, yeah, you just do a song and you'll be, and then you. you guys would be working on a song for a good hour straight. And I was like, what are they even, how is this? And then, of course, when we do the performance, you're like, oh, now I get it. This is, this is, this is better.

It's possible we could have called the whole thing the point of diminishing returns. It's my, the boys, like in Punch Brothers, for instance, I'm sort of, they hold my, my love of rehearsal in high suspicion. Oh, really? There was actually a buddy of mine. A buddy of mine worked for Jackson Brown and would always like to call him he's a singer sound checker.

Also, I got to tour with Paul Simon a long time ago. And he would just, it was, I got the sense that he was on tour so that he could rehearse at soundcheck. Like that was kind of the point for him was just working, working on the stuff and trying new things. Right. And that was like why at that point in his career he was still on tour. Wow. So that he could kind of continue to mess around with the music. And certainly for me on live from here,

you know that we had that sprawling two hours of you know blank airtime to fill and and so yeah you started I started feeling like a like a mad scientist and it was so fun well it was crazy I mean it must have been crazy for you and that this is the one one of the things I'd really remark at it's like okay so I could I could see you being that kind of Paul Simon head and always like exploring and you were always like, you would get excited. I watch you like get excited and hear something. But you weren't just doing it for you or the Punch Brothers. You had these other artists coming in who were so different from one another and so different

from you, and you would jump from genre to genre to genre. It was really, I mean, it must have been, were you overwhelmed or were you excited? Oh, it was just so fun. it's like, um, it's like, what would the, um, you know, you get, you, like when you go over to, I don't know how it is for you. I feel like when you go over to someone's house for dinner. Remember when we used to do that? Um, the, uh, I feel like just everything that they do, like, like, we'll go over to the, these, these, this specific couple's house for dinner and they've just got these almonds. They taste so freaking good. Like, what the hell are you doing to these almonds?

And they'll tell you. And then you go and you can do it at home, but it's not the same. And so for me, for me, the live from here and all the various guests that were coming in, it was just like they would bring this group of songs. And if they asked me to play on it or whatever, it was just the opportunity to like, oh, I want to taste their almonds. Right. What are they doing with those almonds?

That makes perfect sense. And so that it was never, that was always one of the biggest joys is to, you know, or like getting to role play, it was, it's, it's, it's musical role play. And like if you, if you, it was the best ear workout ever, because it's all about your ears. It's not, it's not whether your body can do it. It's whether you can hear what makes that artist, that artist. And like, what, what is the beating heart of this song? Uh-huh.

And can I get that, can I hear it? If I can hear the beating heart of the song, then I can, you know, extend. to underline the certain things. And of course, it gets really exciting when whatever is like the beating heart of your music and the beating heart of their music, if it's slightly similar, but it's, but it's complimentary, then the real magic happens. And that's, you know, I feel like we got to experience that a little bit on the, on the show. Oh, 100%.

And it was such a cool. And then the comedy, the comedy linking up with the music was always so exciting. Yeah. Like when someone would, you know, when our themes would, you know, when our themes would, collide like accidentally sometimes was so fun yeah yeah i know there was a lot of like weird coincidences that would happen throughout a show it was there was definitely there's this little this little magic about it and i always go back to when you and i first started talking about and we got on the phone and we're talking about the heart of prairie home and that and what that

the essence of what that show meant to both of us that we just loved that sense of place and what what garrison had created and we both just loved it so much and i know we both came into it like if we could just get a little bit of that flavor but push it into a new direction we will have done something and i think we did i think i think i think i think we totally did i wish we were still making it i know me now you don't have the you my thing because out in america was that monologue I would do, and that was like always on my head, you would do song of the week where you would create a brand new song from scratch. That and the opening monologue were both two big things. Now that they're not on your plate, do you feel like, don't you feel like,

I have nothing to do? It's like taking a, I mean, to a certain extent, it feels like taking the donut off the bat, you know, and like actually getting it. You know, it's like, whoa. Whoa! Oh, time! Yeah, it's weird, right? It's, it is. It's crazy. But also, I mean, like so many of us, I'm sort of just a compulsive slate filler. Yeah, right, exactly. What are you doing now? What are you working on now? Well, so there's putting the finishing touches on a solo record.

You know, because what else am I going to do? Right. During all of this. But actually, actually conversely, the boys and I, Punch Brothers and I bubbled up and made a record that we finished a couple weeks ago. We finished tracking. And so I'm going to start. I just finished the editing process of the solo record going to dive into the editing process of the punch record. How about you?

So you're doing this. I'm doing this and then I've got the serious sex. There's been some scattered gigging. Yeah, I went out like once a month since June where I would go to clubs where I knew that they were responsible and doing everything right. Yeah. And that was. How did it feel? Did the audiences feel?

I did a couple of them and like, you know, it was some of it was one of the. more surrealistic patches of touring. I mean, the most surrealistic patch of touring I've ever done. Yeah. You can't really call it touring. It was just like you'd go off and, you know, play for 50 people in an 800-seat room, you know? I know. Right, exactly.

I know. But they were the happiest 50 people. Oh, my God. Right? Yes. Or like outdoors in the cold or something. And it's just, it does not matter. It's just the best.

I know. I know. getting into a hotel for the first time was just like, oh my God, I remember all of this. This is so glorious. There's probably a sink. I know. Oh, so great. I had a great moment last week with you very briefly, just a hair of it, but we got so excited when we were watching Dolly Parton's documentary.

on Netflix. Oh! Which is, you know, all hell, Dolly Parton. And then we're watching her doing Austin City Lights or City Limits.

Austin City Limits, yes, I was on that. And a very young Chris is... I just realized, I still have my scarf on. Literally just realized. And a very young Chris is in the, in the backup band.

So young. So excited to see you. How old were you there? Do you remember? I feel like 19? 19? I think yeah. But just and just with the most frosted tips ever in the history of natural hairstyling of the very late 90s, early 2000s.

Yeah. Because she was dipping into her bluegrass. Exactly. Oh, she made, yeah, she made three. She made three bluegrass. records back to back and I was on the middle one. Right. Back to back to back.

And and oh God, that experience was so, and anything like anything that anybody, like if you experience Dali's stuff and then you start forming this, you know, kind of opinion or an image of her in your head of like what she must be like based on what you've seen, you're right. That is exactly how she is. all the time. Like when we were in the studio, she comes in there just like a ray

of the most intelligent sunshine you've ever encountered. And like, so, and then also she shows up, she is Dolly all the time. Like, I've never seen her not, not Dolly. And, and, and, and then also, like,

her scratch vocal tracks, like scratch vocal tracks, because she would sing with the band. It's not like the band goes in there and does something and like someone's singing for Dolly and then she comes in and puts her parts on later. Right. Because she's so fancy.

Like no way. She was like in there with us the whole time. Wow. She'd be in there like while people are recutting solos and stuff. She's in the control room listening like, good job, Chris. Like, um, it's so great. Oh my God. She's, she's the greatest.

And that's like, that's why. But then I think it's so easy to think of her as an incredible entertainer like this American icon. Yeah. But she is an incredible musician. Like we can't forget. And we think about, you know, I think people certainly, you know, have absorbed the songs and feel like she's a great songwriter. Right.

But, but oh my God, just her take-in, take-out musicianship on that session that I did. Yeah. Any one of those scratch vocals you could have used as the lead. Like, I don't know. And she still, I mean, she works hard. She still went in there and recut everything. And I was just going, what are you going to improve about this? Amazing.

And then this one day in the studio, she made everybody dumplings. She came in with dumplings. Chicken and dumplings. And, oh, man. It's everything you want to hear. It's nothing better than when you love somebody like that, like just as an entertainer. They're just in the fabric. And then they live up to what you really hope that they are.

There's nothing worse than like you hear like, oh, you love this actor. He's like, yeah, that guy. I hope you never have to meet him. Right. Yeah. No, no, with Dolly, it is the opposite. It's just like, however much you love her now, if you met her, you would love her 10 times as much. Wow.

Man. She's extraordinary. Were you really good at Mass? She's the reason I fell in love with New York. Oh, really? Why? Yeah. I was living in New York.

Yep. I was living in Nashville. And so it was the first time I actually worked in New York. She was doing a round of press for that record. And so I was, again, I was like 19. And living in like an actual garage in Nashville. My share of the rent with utilities was $135. Wow.

And so she, you know, she has this crack squad of bluegrass, you know, guys as her backup band. And she flies us all out to New York. and puts us up in the Essex House. So, like, right on Central Park. And I, you know, little 19-year-old, you know, frosted-tipped Chris shows up just a mandolin and like a backpack with maybe a nice sweater in there. I don't know. Right.

And then I get picked up by a limo for just, just me. And I, and they, you know, whisk me off to the Essex House. It's like 10 or 11 at night. And I got, so I put all my stuff in that, you know, I look out the window. I see Central Park sprawling out in front of me. And I go down. I had a crush on a girl, I think, who lived in Utah or something.

I went down. On the corner, there was a Kinko's. You remember where you would have to go to a place like Kinko's to use the internet? Right. And I walked out. And here's the New York City just whirling around me. And I look around and, you know, the Kinko's is on the corner. I'm walking down going, I need to live here one day.

This is fast. Yeah, great. And all because Dolly put me up at the Essex House. That's so cool. And now, let's put a quick call into our good friend, Bert Kreischer. Tom, how's it going? You texted me and be a perfect time. You know that, right?

Did I? I was eating something, and I was saying, I swear to God, I was saying, I wish someone wanted to talk about this. I'm not even lying. I'm not even lying. I swear to God on both my children's lives. I said, I've pinkered with this so much. I wish there was someone I could talk about this.

This is amazing. And you texted and you said, do you want to talk about what you're eating? And I said, 100%. You have no idea how much I want to have this conversation. Well, yeah. Well, first of all, I have to have you on the podcast

just because I know how much you love food. But I was like, a quick bite with Bert would be just perfect. I should actually be calling you every week. Oh, my. God. You know, well, it is so, it is so interesting what I'm eating. It is so interesting and it's so layered. Oh, oh, okay.

So obviously, we've talked about this over the weekend. Tom, Cigora, got into a big accident playing sports. And it was the fattest I've ever been when he was doing it, not the fattest he's ever been, blows out his, uh, his, uh, whatever the thing is. Patela, blows out his brumptures of Patela, cracked his humorous bone in half, is in the hospital for a full. full week. Now is, I mean, literally a full week and now has got moved to a hospital hotel to recover, right? And so I see this. And I was dunking a basketball. He was trying to dunk a

basketball. He went to plant and push off and his patella ruptured, which caused him to lay on the ground, break his arm. I was there. I witnessed the whole thing. We filmed it. We filmed it, which is worse. I witnessed it. And then I spent, you know, the next, from that moment and for maybe another, like 18 hours with him. Yeah. You know, not all together, but throughout the next 18 hours, getting him into the hospital, getting him to an orthopedic surgeon, getting him in a medical transport, all of this, right? Jeez.

And all of this hit me so heavy in like a message from God, like, you've got to clean your lifestyle up. This is ridiculous. You're too old. You are screwing around on these basketball courts. You're running marathons. You're running triathlons. No training at all.

I ran a marathon, no training at all. No, no. Waiting to run. after a petalah. And so I go to this, I go to my, I say that's it, I'm changing. No booze. I'm done booze. No booze.

So the month of December, no booze, right? That's it. Yeah. Then I say, I'm going to eat healthy. So all I really know to eat healthy is protein and greens. I know salmon's good for you. So I buy a big thing of salmon and then a bunch of greens, just spinach and salmon. That's all I'm going to have.

Now, here's where we start talking food. So I. I don't really enjoy salmon. I think I like salmon in medium rare. But I had had a salmon at Lollah's on Ventura at one time where they had a mustard, like a mustard vinaigrette. Oh, yeah. That was so good that it made me say to myself, if this was on salmon, I could eat it every day.

Yeah. But what do you think is in that? So I call Lollas, right? I love it. Hey, I was at your place. I'm trying to make salmon for my dad. I don't tell him, it's me. Your mustard vinaigrette.

What's inside your mustard vinaigret? And the guy just really quick goes, what's in the mustard vinaigret? Just hear the guy. Like, no one's running, no one's running clear on this. Yeah. What's in the mustard vinaigrette?

He goes, vinegar, olive oil, mustard, lemon, and garlic. A little salt, why? And read it off to me, I go, awesome. So I have been messing. I had been messing with this mustard vinaigrette. tinkering it with it by myself for the last week. For the last week, I've been eating nothing but salmon twice a day.

I eat at like at 1 o'clock and then at like 6 o'clock, 7 o'clock, I eat the same thing, salmon and greens. That's all I know how to eat, but I've been tinkering with this mustard vinaigrette. And so now today, when you called, when you texted, I had almost perfected it. Here's what I did. I go over to the sushi store by my house, right? I go when I get wasabi because I think I want

mustard with a little bit and I can't find mustard with a kick even even Coleman's which is a great mustard the kick isn't there when you start to dilute it with all these other ingredients it's just the kick isn't there

so I get wasabi right so I go half asabi half mustard right it's pretty thick right I then this gets good I then go Wait, wait, can I bring you back a minute? What's the mustard?

The mustard I use right now, the mustard I'm using right now is gray Poupon. Okay. Now, it should be noted. It should be noted I've gone on Amazon and bought all the spiciest mustard I can find on Amazon, and they're not here here. So you're using a Dijon mustard? A Dijon mustard. I've now got half Dijon mustard instead of the full portion of mustard, which I tinkered with and found to be roughly about two tables. spoons for a small batch.

Right. We're talking one piece of salmon, one salad. Now it gets complicated because we've grown this recipe. Okay. I take real fine, right? Like three, four cloves of garlic. Mm-hmm. White wine vinegar, olive oil, lemon.

I've been using the same lemon working my way through this lemon, okay? Yeah. Half wasabi, half mustard. I then, it's pretty thick, so I coat it on, and then I sprinkle salt and pepper on top of that, so that's almost like a binding. Oh. Now, we're talking, you got to cook salmon. It's all of a sudden it's not even fish.

It's like, why don't you just open a can of salmon and just eat that? Right. I found that if you leave salmon out for 15 minutes, cook it in the oven at 400 for 13 minutes, you get perfectly medium rare, still soft like bright pink in the inside, whiteish pink on the outside, perfectly cooked salmon. Here's the cast. What I do is I take my greens. I then load up the remainder of the sauce that I have in the bowl. I squeeze more lemon, more white wine vinegar, more olive oil, and whiskey.

So it's super runny. And I use that as a dressing on the greens, which the salmon is going to go on top of. Oh, nice. Now you're thinking. Yeah. I finally sliced up some onions, like really thinly sliced. And what's the thing that you use and then you cut the tip of your finger? tips off with

Julia Julia some onions and I'm eating this thinking I perfected my recipe I perfected my recipe I perfected my recipe

and I get a text from Tom Papa want to talk about what you're eating and I say motherfucker I want to talk about what I want It's so perfect

now listen I think that it's amazing that you the amount of work that you did is fantastic I love that you're deciding to

go a little healthier I don't think there's ever anything wrong with taking yourself off of the alcohol freeway and taking December off, that's all positive stuff. And I'm never one to get in the way of a motivated person. But I also want to point out that another way that you don't rupture your patella at our age is don't dunk basketballs. That is the quick fix.

I mean, because you've been good. You've had a good year. You've been healthy. Like, you've been kind of dialed in. You were in the beginning of quarantine. I remember you were on the treadmill all the time. You've been good. I don't think, I just think there's some stuff we shouldn't be doing anymore.

Yeah. Oh, by the way, I'm on the treadmill now. My goal was to run 1,000 miles this year, and I am 89 miles short, 85 miles short. Oh, you're close. I know. I just got to run 3.4 miles every single day. Wow, that's exciting. Yeah, you know what's so funny is they told, like Tom and I got recognized at the hospital,

and so he got to bed quickly, and they told them, they said, you know, yeah, the guy in there, he heard himself playing basketball, him and his buddy were playing basketball. Two nurses opened the curtain, looked at us, closed it, and it was like, couldn't have been them. No way. Not these two fat pieces of the grass. They don't even know what a basketball is. Oh, man, you're the best, first. Thank you for sharing this with me.

I appreciate it. Thank you for calling me. You've made my day complete now, Tom. Oh, you're the best. Thank you, buddy. Love you. Bye. Love you too.

Well, it's an interesting thing because you have, I mean, music is the force that brings you to all these different, it opens all the doors and, like, you get on this, you just start practicing as a kid, and then you don't realize that you're actually getting on a magic carpet ride that's going to take you to all these places and let you just experience life and become this just it just opens everything up and I guess this is a long clunky segue to ask so when did you start to get what is now a really crazy deep appreciation for the finer

eating and dining things because it's not just I mean you're super educated and love wine, but it's also, you have an appreciation really for food. You don't take any of these things lightly. Coffee, all these things like you really, you're thoughtful about these things. Oh, thank you. I mean, it was definitely like on trips like that. But then my parents, we didn't, we grew up, we didn't have any money. but the things that we could afford,

my parents definitely put a lot of effort into the curatorship of those things. It's like, you know, if we were, we lived in this little tiny mountain town in Southern California called Idaho Wild, up above the, it's in the mountains up above Palm Springs. But, you know, when we would go off the hill,

as we called it, you know, it wasn't like we could have, they couldn't really afford to go out, but it wasn't going to be McDonald's, it was going to be in and out, you know, because after, My dad had to travel all over the area tuning pianos, and he would find, he would find, like, the best taco place. And then, you know, he would know where all the in-and-out burgers were.

Right. And or, you know, like, the gas station had the best ratio of syrup to carbonation in their sodas, you know. Oh, really? Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, that kind of thing. And he took a lot of care, took a lot of care with the coffee. and, you know, so he and mom both were very obsessive about the things that they liked. So I come by that, honestly.

And so then when I started traveling and people like, you know, if you go to New York and you stay at a place like the Essex house, you know, through the generosity of someone like. Like, Dolly, you just start bumping up against, like, whether you have any money or not, you just start bumping up against really good things. And not only some of the good things are super expensive. Right. But like Brian Sutton, this great guitar player who was on that same tour with me with Dolly, he and I would go, because he was the second youngest on that tour. And so he and I kind of pal around in the, in the, we were going to do.

So it was like that next morning we played the Today Show, and then we go roaming around, just walking around trying to find stuff. And like wander into, oh, we were going to play a showcase at Joe's Pub down, like, kind of, I guess, right where the East Village starts thinking about becoming Greenwich Village. And so we start wandering westward and just happen. getting hungry and wanted to see where the village vanguard was

heard all those records and was like, there it is! That's where it went down, Waltz for Debbie! But walked past this little place called Brooksells

and decided to go in and proceeded to have this crazy Belgian kick assery. Just like a beef stew and muscles and the greatest I'm going like, what's up with these fries?

It's so, so amazing. And so it's just little experiences like that throughout the travel, where you just feel like, wow, whatever these people are putting a little bit extra effort into every aspect of what they're doing. And so like you, and then you're searching for when you're on the road, you would know this better than anyone. You're searching for these little moments of tethering. You're like you're just attempting to tether yourself to the world, to life.

Yeah. You can feel like you're just adrift for vast swaths of time unless you find those things and like latch onto them and don't let them go until they're all the way over. It's really true. Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting thing. Whenever you talk, I look at stories of people that have toured before us, like vaudeville or just comedians and musicians before we showed up. It's always about the meal. Everybody's always talking about, so where are we going to eat after the thing?

And everybody knows where they, because it gives you some normality. Like, I was listening to this interview with George Burns. And it was just like this woman was doing this little audio documentary. And she's like, they talk about the food all. the time. It's like, yeah, of course. The food, the drinks, and like, and the people that you meet, that's when you actually get to, it's because then you're, you're living the life that the people in that place live.

And you're getting to commune with them in a different way than you would if you're just, if you're both at the cool museum in town. And I mean, I love that too. Yeah. Yeah. But that is the museum. is not where you're going to learn how people live their lives in that town. It's going to be where you learn about kind of life in general.

Yeah. Life with a capital L. Yeah. But it's in that little hole in the wall somewhere where this woman really, really, really cares about how to pull a shot of espresso, you know? Yeah. And just does it. even though we've had so many different shots of espresso in so many different places, it's like, oh, there's something about this one.

Yeah. And this one in this place with this person. Right. And I'd live for that. Yeah. And you remember those. You carry it with you. So when did wine become, when did you start to think, oh, I'm going to go deeper into this?

wine was the first alcoholic beverage that I had and I had it in Avion, France, like it like the water. And so I think it might have even been that same year. I think I was 19, 18 or 19. And Nickel Creek, the band I was in before Punch Brothers, and we're still, we're still, I know we just don't do it as much now. But it was our first trip outside. of the continental United States.

Wow. Or the, yeah. Yeah, I think it was. No, maybe we'd gone to, you know, we went to Canada once. But it was, it was our first trip to Europe. You're right. And so we get to Grenoble. I think we flew to Paris and connected to Grenoble,

and then they drove us straight to the gig. Because it's like we're young, we're not doing like a rest day. No one has the money. The promoter doesn't have. the money to give us a rest day. Like nothing. There was just like straight in. They're young.

Jet lag is nothing. Get to the stage. Let's go. Exactly. We basically went from the airport to the stage. And played this show. Played this show and the promoter had talked to a buddy who had a restaurant in town and they kept it open for us after the show.

Oh, it was incredible. So, you know, we're dining outside. It's perfect. It's in the middle of summer. And but not a side note. This is this is fundamental information here. I had been raised, I had been raised with a whole lot of Jesus and and the kind of Jesus who was not turning water into wine. Like he turned it into grape juice.

People just got confused with the terminology. Right. Like there was not going to be alcohol is not a, that's not a thing that we do. Right. And Sean and Sarah, my bandmates in Nickel Creek, it wasn't quite as hardcore on that front. So I had been raised super fundamentalist Christian to the point where not even wine was okay. And I was also sort of, I was like, I was the least rebellious teenager who's ever lived. Like, no, just, okay, fine, great.

I think probably because I had this thing, I had this thing that I did. And my parents gave me, it was like, I had free reign over that, over the whole world of music. So I had this thing that was, and even my dad was in Nickel Creek early on and was kind of, it was a real sport about just me bossing him around. Like, dad, you're rushing. Dad, like, no, you can't play that note over this chord. like, you know, just all that kind of stuff. That's amazing. And he would just take it like a champ.

And so I felt like maybe then I was okay with them being like, no, you, you never have a drop of alcohol or, you know, they were. Right, right. And now they're the two most liberal people in all of Murray, Kentucky. And a lot has changed. And they're the best. They're watching right now. Love you, Mom and Dad, so much. And they're probably watching with a glass of wine right now.

That's good to hear. Lots has changed. But so the guy, I withstood all manner of peer pressure about drinking. I was living again in that little garage in Nashville where there was a lot of drinking happening just on the other side of my door. And I would always be kind of like, you know, self-righteous about it and go off and practice some more just to show them how serious I was. Nice.

You know, whatever. Yeah, it's good. There's value to that. I hate, I hate thinking back on that period myself. But, but so this guy, the waiter, comes around with a special bottle of wine and, and, you know, Sarah has a little bit. Sarah and Sean, are both like, yeah, sure, sure. And he gets to me and I go, no, thanks, I'll have a Coke. And, of course, cocoa is like 20 times worse for you than a glass of nice Bordeaux.

But he gets to me and it wasn't. Like, it wasn't like, come on, man, drink, drink, drink. It was like pity. He looked at me with pity. And I couldn't, that I could not withstand. It was just like, all of a sudden, you know, Jesus just sort of wanders away from me. And I'm just like, all right, give me the damn wine. I'll take a glass of wine.

I'm not, don't pity me. That's amazing. You know, it's just like, you're born American, you want a Coke. You're all the same. I can't believe you. No, wait, I'm not. I'm not like that. No, I'm okay.

This is what we do. Okay, then it's what we do. And so I had a little sip and realized I wasn't about to like then go, okay, and where's the nearest strip club? It was like. Give me cocaine. Yeah, exactly. Come on. What do we do?

Let's sit right in the arm, right in the arm. You know, I, it tasted amazing with the steak. Yeah. And I, you know, right then and there felt like, okay, well, with the right, with the right food, this is, it's not about getting hammered. It's about kind of just double bouncing this whole, you know, sensory experience. Yeah, back to the thoughtfulness that your parents were instilling in you. Yeah, yeah. And again, like that moment, just deepening that moment.

And that, that, you know, your feet. solidly on the ground of where you are. Yeah. And, you know, it plants it something, something like a great glass of wine with the right, with the right food. Just, it just cements you in the most warm and inviting way to the spot in which you are. Yeah. And I, yeah, I love that so much.

So why, so you have a real love for Barolo. Is that, is it fair to say that's your. favorite wine? Yeah. You have a poster. Well, it was like the first, it was the first thing that I, where I just, I really started, it was one of the, it was actually the first, is this true? The first non-American wine region that I traveled to. And, um, and that was because my, Claire and I, the, the, the woman who was to become. my wife. Yeah.

And I. Miss Claire. Miss Claire. Oh, I see. You miss Claire. I was going like, Miss Claire. Oh, right. So she was the first person I dated who was just as susceptible to like wondering about the most expensive bottle on the list as I was.

Just like, why is it so expensive? Right. Is it better? Is it just fancier? Is it like, are you trying to impress someone? Or is it really good? Right. We don't, let's just do it.

We don't actually have the money, but let's do it anyway. Right. And just see, just see if it's great. And, you know, sometimes it would be and sometimes it wouldn't be. And we just felt like also, you know, in New York, which is where the lion's share of our courtship happened early on. there's so many great, you know, Italian places, that New York kind of Italian, sort of Nouveau, Italian. Yeah. And a bunch of great lists that had a bunch of Barolo and Barbarasco on them.

And so I felt like early on, a lot of times when Claire and I would sort of look up from the glass and go, whoa. And, you know, bring the wine person back and say, what is this? it would be Borolo or Barbarasco. And so when we were thinking about taking our first vacation together, I got in touch with a buddy who knew a bunch of people in the wine world. And was like, because you get us some tastings in Borolo. And so off we went. And it's also so magic.

I mean, when you think of a far away wine region in your head, it looks like Barolo. But Barolo is the only one that actually looks like that. Right. And then there's the whole like, you know, the whole truffle thing that that happens in the fall there and, and continues. Yeah, that's like where the white, that's the white truffle thing. Oh, I didn't know that.

And so you do, you do the white truffle with the, with the brollo and you just, but it ruins, it'll ruin you. Because then you'll, you'll want it again and you won't be able to afford it. No, I know. It's not cheap. It stuff is not cheap. And that's why I would panic. And when we were starting to become pals, I would be in a wine shop and I just start taking

photos of the bottles and sending it to you and like, what do I do? And it was so great because I knew wherever he is, whatever he's doing, how involved he is. He could be with his kids or his wife or his son. And whatever's going on and he's busy, he's going to walk away from it and give me an evaluation of this wine because he's, you love talking about. And I love shopping for parololo with other people's money. I love it. I love it. I don't care by drinking. I just want to buy it. It's so funny. With that, you've also, there's another part to you, which is, which is, it takes the same thoughtful, like, appreciation now.

Like, I don't want our listeners to just think, like, oh, Chris is just, he's just about Barolo's or the, you also have an equal, I would say maybe even a deeper passion for, for Tiki bars. Yes. Yes. You, I mean, I always just thought, well, it's just Tiki bars around. And you're like, no, this one was formed in 1957 and by these two brothers. And these, I mean, one of the first times that we hung out. Actually, remember that?

Oh, that's right. We went to Tiki tea together. Yeah, we started at Moza. And we had this great little Italian kind of, we drank some good wine and we hung out at the, at the bar. and then before we went home, we're like, no, we should hit some Tiki. And we would, was it Tiki Brothers? Tiki. Tiki Tis.

It's one of the greatest. One of the great all times. How did that happen? How did the Tiki thing explode in your head? Whoa, how did that? Well, I got into, here's, I think, oh, here's another long answer to a perfectly reasonable question. So I got, when I moved to New York,

Yeah. I got super in, it was, it was the hate, the, the whole speakeasy cocktail thing was, was in full early flight. Right. So places like milk and honey and the flat iron lounge and Pagu club and employees only later PDT, all those places where it was like why the bar in your town where you suddenly have to have like a password to get in there. Right. You know, and there's, there's tax. No sign. and you're like you're not allowed to actually talk in there or whatever it is.

It's all that was, all that was coming from these amazing cocktail bars in New York. And I got really, I had never been into cocktails at all. I always thought that was like what you drank if you didn't like the taste of alcohol, then you would have a cocktail to like mask it. And then you could have drunk, you could have drunk without any of the taste. That's what I thought. That's what I thought cocktails were all about until I started going to these places. And so then I started getting the stuff to do it at home.

And was, so again, per usual, getting super, super obsessed and started to be able to do it pretty well at home. Yeah. I mean, not as well as those great places, but well enough to where I started looking for stuff that was going to be harder for me to make at home. Uh-huh. And then also there's the romance of. Yes. The drinks, like the, there's the, the story behind a cocktail is so much of what you're tasting. Yeah.

And like why the person invented it or where, what was happening in history when it was being drunk the most readily. Right, right. All that kind of stuff is so exciting. And, and then the secrets, the secrets, it's like, oh, there's an ingredient here. No, we can't tell you what it is. And or it's like, there's a maripocone in this, but like, Ameripocone that you buy in stores isn't like a meripocone used to be. and nobody makes it like they used to be, except this guy in Seattle,

Jimmy Butchrow, and he made it right there and you can taste it right down. And, like, that's the only time you'll ever taste a real Brooklyn cocktail. Right. At this one bar in Seattle, you know?

Right. So I love that stuff. Yeah. And Tiki is, like, Tiki is that to the night. It's all secrecy, and it's all like, no, you have no idea what it's. actually in this.

And it's, or it's lost to all time. And we think this is what it was. And just all that, all that great stuff. Yeah, and the dad did this and he passed it to the son. He passed it to the son. And he's still there. And the grandson is, the grandson's the only one who can make a puka punch. As it used to be, you know.

And it's the, I love it. I love it. Plus there's like 20 ingredients for every cocktail. So it's kind of hard to do it at home. So when you're out there and you're about to shell out 12 bucks or whatever for your cocktail or like if you're in New York, like 17 bucks for your cocktail, it's like you kind of want it not to be a Manhattan anymore, like that you can make it home for maybe a total of 250 or something. Right. Yeah, we perfected that.

Yeah. But that was great. We had a couple great moments on the road where we, you would always, again, like on the road, finding those things and we're putting on this giant show. It's going to go out to a national audience live and all this stuff and the music and the comedy and all this stuff. And all everybody's secretly thinking is, where's the tiki bar we're going to at the end of the night? Yes. Chris found one. I got it.

I got it. Did you do, there was the great, there's that great one in San Diego that we, I think you, we did that together, right? The fall sign. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That was really good. That was a good one. But TET, it's hard to beat. Hard to beat that in Los Angeles. I imagine there's some people from Los Angeles who tune into your podcast. Yes, for sure. And the other one that I liked is they always, and I don't know. I think they claim they're the oldest in L.A. is the Tonga Hut.

Tonga Hut, yes. Out in the valley. It's great. Yeah. I went there once. I love that one. Oh, I got hammered there. Easy to do.

That's the big problem also. So with Tiki is we can sit here and say, oh, no, no, no, don't worry, they're balanced cocktails. They're balanced. There's a lot of sugar in those drinks. It really is. And yeah, if they're, if they're, and there's, that's a thing we should talk about briefly is like, let's be real.

Cocktails have sugar in them. That's kind of the point. And like the next time I, I, I, you always sit down next to someone who's like, I don't want a sweet, I don't like sweet cocktails. Like if you like cocktails at all, then you like sweet cocktails. Because they're just sweet. Otherwise, you just have booze by itself. I know.

That's all they're doing to it. Put a little sugar in there for you. Right. Exactly. I know what everybody means. We don't want the bright red cosmopolins anymore. Right, right, right, right. But they are all a little sweet.

Let's be real. Except the dry martini at a steakhouse. That is a fine thing. And it is pretty dry. I love that. But all they're doing is like, they're like giving a, like, a suspicious glance at the vermouth bottle. And that's how much vermouth is in it. I know exactly.

They're like, yeah, no, I put it on the ice, shake it, and then dump the vermouth out. So it's just a little trace left on the ice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rinse. That's what they, that's what they're doing. I went to that place where, I think maybe they invented the dry martini there, dukes in London. Did you ever go to Duke's Hotel in London?

No. Oh, man, that was a... And they bring the bottle of Plymouth gin out, and it's just like frozen, there's smoke coming, or mist. Steam? Yeah. Coming off of it, and then there's, there's like the little, there's this little tiny thing of removed.

They do exactly what you're talking about. They just, they pour it in there, they swirl it around, and then they dump it out. And the rest is just gin. That's the highest I've ever been in my life. is after a dukes martini. So you were up hiding in the, hiding out of the city for a while

and living in the woods pretty much during a part of the pandemic. And now that you're back in Brooklyn and I see on Claire's Instagram once in a while, some cocktail glasses and it seems like you are finding your way, even though things are kind of Frankenstein. It seems like you are still finding some of the finer moments. out of this. Making Tiki at home, for one. Oh, are you? Actually, yeah, assembled a great deal of various syrups and things like that. Trying to, trying to unlock the secrets of the cocktails. Oh, that's great. I love that. And then we found, ooh, I want to talk to you about our bread place. We found a bread place.

Which one? Because we're not, that's a thing. Everyone caught, like, everyone started doing, they started following, following you into sourdough baking land, right? That was a thing. Yeah, yeah. Especially when the beginning went when people couldn't get yeast anymore. Yeah. We tried and we were not satisfied with the results of our early sourdough adventures. And so, but thankfully, up there, we found this little place called Bread Folks that started where you could go pick up one of the best sourdough loaves I've ever had. And now there's this place right next to our house in Brooklyn, close to our house, where you sign up.

It's like a CSA and you go and you get. get two loaves a week, one on Tuesday and one on Friday, and those are days of much rejoicing. Oh, that's great. This one of the loaves is a Japanese milk bread. Have you know about this? No, I don't. Where he starts with this Thai rice and like mashes it into a little pulp and then, dude. Next time you come over.

Really? Whenever this is all done, I got some bread to show you. Oh, that's amazing. Oh, no. Now I'm going to. What are you doing? What are you baking these days? Oh, man, I just did these two hollowloafs.

I've been trying to perfect hollow bread. And I'm, yeah, I keep getting, it's so great. It's like, you just, you do it. It's like, yeah, this is good. And then you got like kind of dip down. And you're like, no, this isn't very good. Let's, let's be real about this. And then you start giving it to my Jewish friends.

And they're like, no, yeah, good try. But now I'm starting to get, I'm getting a little, I'm getting a little closer. I'm perfecting it. And I've just, that's all I've been doing during the pandemic. is it's how I can see other artists who I would normally see at Largo or whatever. I just get them bread and then drive it to their house and spend like 10, 15 minutes hanging out with them out socially distanced and give them bread and then I like make deliveries. I have a playlist in my car, just bread delivery. And I throw that playlist on and just

drive around L.A. Tom, that is some that is some part-esque activity, I would say. It's part-ness. Yeah. I applaud you. Thank you. Well, I can't wait for this to be over. And listen, will you come back on because there's so much, I mean, as I actually wrote down. Whenever, just to take like to have 45 minutes of just smiling? Yeah. I'm into it. All right, good. Because I would really like to just come on and be like, no, today I just want to talk to you about Bordeaux and then just go.

because there's something and because the thing that is I actually wrote the word down and it's it's it's a weird word I guess to write during a pandemic but I wrote down as you were talking about it about all this stuff about music and about and about and about the Tiki and about the burlolo and all you you uh your enthusiasm is contagious contagious is the word I wrote down and that's why people are drawn to you that's why I'm drawn to you as a friend but there's just like there's a enthusiasm that a lot of people don't have, and I'm really psyched to be a part of it. Oh, thank you. Well, my friend, it's so good to see you. You too, man. Can't wait to do it. Yeah, let me know. I'll be here. I'm ready to do the next one. Tickle cow for me. There was a lot of that last night. All right, buddy. I'll see you soon. Bye, Tom. See ya.

Hey, everybody. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Thank you to Chris and to Burt, good people, hearty people, lovers of all things good, as we all are here. Make sure you like and subscribe and tell your friends all about the podcast. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next time.