Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 330 - Matt Rogers

Episode Date: June 16, 2026

This week we welcome Matt Rogers to the table! He and Tom talk all about Long Island and the east coast, their starts in comedy, and of course, the Cultch Awards! Enjoy! Our thanks to Sheath. The underwear of legends. Go to https://www.sheath.com/PAPA and use code PAPA for 20% off.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Bowen and I went down to Epic Universe, the new Universal Theme Park. They wanted us to ride a roller coaster with the GoPro on it, and they were going to put it on social. Yeah. Leah remembers because I called her after it. So it was so hot in Orlando. And we had just done hot ones. Oh, God.

You know, that's another food talk show. Our bodies were full of chicken wing. Oh, no. It was so hot. We were exhausted. They put us on the roller coaster, strapped the GoPro on. It was very intense. My body was breaking.

The person comes over and goes, okay, amazing. So we're going to go again. And then I realized, oh, right, it's a shoot. They need, like, takes of it. I look at Bowen, his eyes are crossed. I was like, come. And they go, and remember, like, you did lift your arms and we can't actually have you lift your arms.

Like, remember for the video, like, you know, just keep. I was like, okay, we can do this one more time, and then we do have to go because we're going to be sick and the content won't be good and we'll be ill. and they go okay cool yeah one more time so we do it I guess my hands came off the bar for a second we parked and they were like could you do it again I was like I cannot I cannot really then they showed us the footage

Bowen was somehow turning the performance of a lifetime smiling laughing I am like melting from the inside so now I know it's gonna look like that I got back to the hotel I called Leah my publicist and started crying because it was too early in the year to be this tired. It's breaking bread. For the cultural awards, we got an opportunity to do a show at Lincoln Center

that had an outdoor space. They do like a summer concert series, summer free shows. And they were like, would you want the space for one night in the summer during Pride? We did it. A ton of our listeners came out

and followed that up the next year. We were well beyond capacity. And so then it over time became this thing. So when you did Lincoln Center, was it, we're just going to give you the space and you said, oh, let's do the award thing? Yeah, they said, would you want to have the space for anything you wanted to do? And we were like, oh, why don't we do the awards? So great.

And so we did it. We just really just got a bunch of our friends from New York to come do it. Somehow got legit celebrities to send in a video. I think the real game changer was Taylor Swift sent in two videos to accept culture awards. Oh, that are done. And just hearing her say the words in the video, hi, Bowen, hi, Matt. I was like, okay, maybe this is something

that people would actually want to play with us. Yeah, right, right. That's proven to be true. I mean, the cast that we assembled, it's kind of like an Avengers of like, you know, celebrities relevant to really anyone, because there's something for everyone in the show. How did you come up with the categories?

It was just like things that you would want to see in an award show or just literally what we try to do is just always make it so that you're just surprised that you never saw the next category coming. Right. And I think that what Bowen and I try to do is just make each other laugh. And if we're laughing, like one of our categories this year is most triggered, activated or dysregulated I was this year award. And it's just like five times that like we were in consternation. This year we have the Mamma Mia 2 Award for Here We Go Again. Just something that's happening again. You'd be a relevant nominee there.

But then we have like best lunch and best breakfast. And then best new artists, best album of the year, record of the year. Do you get people to show up to like be nominees? Yes. Are they starting to? Oh, yeah. I mean. Because you could feel that it's really a thing now.

It's really grown to be what I think, we always thought it could be, which is just a full-blown satirization of an award show. Because I think that Bowen and I share both being really, what's funny, on our podcast we asked, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you, and we both share the Oscars as one of those things.

Right. It was 1997, 1998, the year the Titanic was huge, you know, what they call monoculture. And it being nominated at the Oscars meant that we were watching the Oscars And suddenly, I think when I was like a seven or eight year old kid, I saw this community in the TV that I wanted to aspire and grow up to be a part of one day. Fast forward to now, I now know that the awards show thing is an industry in its own right.

You know, it's a lot of smoke and mirrors. It's a lot of, you know, it's a business. Yeah. And that to me is so funny. I think that one thing that Bowen and I really, it hits both of our, like, instincts comedically is when something takes itself really serious. or as like super, you know, capitalist or like, you know, feels like it's not yet having a sense of humor about itself. And so the award show thing felt like a really good opportunity

for a satire that hadn't been done. And so we really just applied our voice to it. And it turned out that people wanted to make fun of this thing too. That's so great. But do you run a risk of it being every day important? Like, you know what I mean? Right. Like, people are going to start to want to win this. Well, yeah. So once it becomes a real thing where people are upset about being excluded or like that

they feel snubbed for nominations in a real way. Yeah. Then we'll know it's gone too far. But then you have the, you have the secret power of being comedians. Yeah. Then you can take that and twist it and be like, now here's a new category of the people who are taking this too serious. Right, exactly. Like, I think we even said in one of our, one of our, um, our, um, our, uh, pre-roll audio is, it's like, y'all are taking this more seriously than we are at this point. Like, it'll just run over the commercials.

Right. But really, it's just so fun because every single second of it. Yeah. Is satirizing. Right. All different forms of, of award shows. You know, we follow the, the, the sort of process of the Oscars, but also there's, you know, a little bit of Grammys thrown in there. There's, there's definitely, there's definitely, you know, a lot of VMA. There's Tony stuff. There's really all different kinds of award shows. If there's a stock thing that happens, we're ripping the piss out of it on the cultural awards. That's so great. Not to say that we don't want an Emmy for the Cultural Awards.

I'll sell out real quick. And don't think this isn't airing right in the FYC window. I'm not brand new. It's so fantastic. It really is, I mean, there really is that the thing about being comics that you can just literally walk in and to any situation and just call bullshit on it all. Yeah, I mean, I think that that is just something I always breathe a little bit of a side of relief when I look around and I go, we all know this is crazy, right?

Right. Like, we all know this is funny. Yeah. Because the truth is, you know, even booking the show last year, it was really hard to sell a lot of people on the idea of it's an award show, but it's really a comedy special. Right. Because there is so much, you know, there's a lot of focus and attention and energy placed on winning and getting nominated for these awards.

And people work really hard for it. So I just think that excuse to be like, oh, right, I can center myself in a way that this can actually be fun. Right, right. Because it's nerve-wracking. And it's, you know, I went to the Oscars with Bowen last year as his date, two years ago, rather. And it's intense in there.

It's not a, it's not a fun vibe. Right, right. Until the end. Yeah. You know, people, as they start to lose, they either start, they either leave. leave the room or their shoulders drop a little bit. Do they leave? They'll take off.

Well, that's, I guess, like, an open secret about a lot of the award shows is people are in their seats at the beginning and not at the end. Oh, that's pretty great. If you hang in there as a seat filler, you can get an incredible seat. Really? Oh, God. Actually, Bowen was presenting at the Oscars for Wicked and he had to do a very involved bit with a costume.

He was presenting best costume design and the bit was all the presenters came out and he was the only one in his costume from the movie. Right. So it took him a long time to get in and out of the costume. So I was sitting in the front row of the Oscars as his date with a seat filler for the first like 90 minutes of the show. Really? And eventually

the seat filler who hadn't said anything all night turns to me and goes, where's Bowen? And I was like, I mean, I would rather he be here too. But I don't know, but sorry you have to chill with me at the front row of the Oscars, ma'am, while Cynthia Arrivo slays, you know, defying gravity in front of us. Yeah, two inches from us.

Tough life for you. You know, you can make it 150 bucks and see and Cynthia. But he'll be back soon. But isn't that, that's why show business works is that you can be, you can know everything about the smoke and mirrors of whatever thing that you're involved in. And then you watch something else and you're like wow that's that looks magical that looks like something special yeah when it's really just smoking mirrors that you haven't learned about yet well you know it i guess exactly and the interesting challenge is how do you still create a smoking mirrors magical you know evening for people when a lot of people are in on the joke now or are in the reality of hollywood now because the media is so sensitive it feels like yeah there's very little wow those aliens

listers out there in the world somewhere. You know, we get it. And so you have to sort of twist the form to just be surprising in a new way. Because I don't know that an award show can be really surprising anymore unless something insane happens like someone announces the wrong winner or someone gets, you know, slapped in the face. A huge moment. Which, you know, all of our violence is staged and consensual, I should say, in our show. Do you miss that part of Hollywood, like, that you didn't know everything about everybody?

Like, there's a handful of people that aren't on social media. Totally. And you have to see them on something really, like a film or something really special to, like, that part, that mythology that you're able to, like, kind of create. I think it was better. It was better because it really felt, well, it so much has changed. Like, now it becomes, like, academic. But with the death of us all having the same references,

you know what I mean? It's why they try to reboot everything, obviously, as we know, because we just need references everyone knows to get a lot of eyeballs on things. And it's hard. So we're also fragmented now. So in a way, do I miss it? Sure, because I miss having a commonality

amongst conversation and culture. I think that that's something that ties the fabric of culture together. But that being said, in a world where you have, you know, I guess a niche concept like this one, it's kind of nice to at least bring all of that commonality to at least our audience. To your thing. You get your audience excited. And that excitement hopefully is contagious to other people instead of trying to shoehorn in.

Like, let's try to get Brad Pitt in here. You know what I mean? And like it's like kind of, you know. Play to an audience, you know you'll never talk to. So I think with the cultural awards, like our honorary awards this year are going to Will Ferrell and Lisa Kudrow. So those are two A plus listers that everyone knows. But then a lot of our other awards are very much for our Bravo audience. Right.

Very much for our gay audience. Right. Very much for, you know, insert whoever we're targeting here. It's, I think, the only award show where you're going to see Sierra and Mia for. from Summerhouse and also the Benegeserate of Dune show up. You know what I mean? And Will Ferrell in there randomly. Right, exactly.

So, yeah, there's like a lot of... That's a cool kind of concept. I mean, not to get ahead of ourselves, but that you could actually grow it. Like, it starts as like a little, not little, but a club of people like that, but then as it kind of starts to expand and become bigger, and you have these other people like Will's audience

or Lisa Kudrow, you know, Well, that's kind of always been the podcast, to be honest with you. I think that one of the things that I think brings our audience a lot of happiness and a lot of, you know, access is the fact that it's very high-low. Like, we'll talk about whatever's going on in, you know, film, music, whatever. But then, and we'll mix the, you know, the prestige with the frivolous or whatever has been called, you know, throwaway entertainment. Because to be honest with you, everything really at the end of the day serves the same purpose, which is to entertain, distract, inform, whatever it is. But there's something fun about the podcast and the cultural awards, which treats everything equally. Right.

So that's, I think, the permission to be like, yeah, I know about what's going on in politics, but I also watch reality television. or I, you know, I can pick out the flaws in a script, but I also, you know, I like to go to Six Flags. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if this was necessarily opposites, but you know what I'm getting. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting to think of your career actually that way.

Like, because you've had, you've, you kind of go off into these different creative things, if it's doing stand-up or UCV or, you know, hosting things, film. writing and it's like it like there's no real thought right like we know I like to be busy right you just want to work yeah just want to express yourself as you go through so you but now I let to keep the voices at bay you right yeah I don't need a lot of depression I don't want to all this stuff but that but now like you know and I just assume it because I know how a comic finds their way and going through life and you're just saying yes and but you're staying true to yourself now you're at a point

where there is a story. There is like this kind of, you've created your career, and it has all those elements of your podcast and this award show kind of thing. Thank you for saying that. Really? I think that, well, you know, here's the other thing. When I was growing up and having like aspirations to be in the business,

I didn't really, I think I was really embarrassed to always say this, but I always wanted to be like an entertainer. Like I always wanted to be, you know, when I was growing up, I would watch like Nick at night and they would sometimes rerun Sunny and Cher. Yeah. And they would rerun like,

I love Lucy and they would rerun, you know, all these great old variety shows from back in the day. And I loved Saturday Night Live always. Yeah. And I just, what always stuck out to me were people that seemed like they could entertain

in all sorts of different ways. And also I'm realistic about or I was realistic about growing up feeling like, you know, I don't really see myself represented so much in any one area. So might as well just try and develop skills as much as I can and have fun learning how to do as much as I can because you just don't know where they're going to want you or what you're going to need to be ready for. So I got an education in writing, which at the time all I wanted to be was an actor. and be in acting school. But now I look back and I'm happy I was able to develop different

talents because I ended up being really fortunate that I get to use a lot of them. Right. Were you in school? Were you a theater kid? Well, I think I was an aspiring theater kid in high school, but I was a jock. Oh, you were? So very deeply closeted and, you know, really at that point, I was just trying to be involved in community and be good at something. I really just wanted to. What was your sport? I actually was a track athlete. I was a three-season track athlete.

I did play baseball and basketball growing up. My dad was a varsity football and baseball coach. Okay. But he didn't care that I do either of those. I played baseball, but, you know, football was never a place I could go. Right. Where was this? On Long Island.

Long Island. Yeah, I grew up in Suffolk County on Long Island. By the time I got to high school, I was doing track all. year rounds and I was pretty fast. I ran a mile in 436. Whoa. Yeah, which wasn't even really one of the better times. I know it sounds crazy, but like it was good. This is me being hard on myself. Yeah, right back to the athlete.

But it wasn't like, some of these guys were doing sub four. I did get to NYU and ran track for a week and decided I have to stop and try to focus entirely on trying to make the dream happened. So I was like coming out of the closet and trying to do the entertainment industry. So was the was the entertainment part in the closet too? Were you not telling people that when you were in? I don't think anyone was surprised. When I was in college, they were like, oh, he's, you know, wanting to pursue this. But the way that I sort of got into it so that I could soften the blow for people was like, I'm going to do sketch comedy. Right. You know, because I still felt like there was something mask about it, I guess. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You can get away with that.

Exactly. So I still had that sort of internalized homophobia of not wanting to say out loud that I wanted to be a singer or a comedian. Right. That was doing a lot of different things. Perform on stage, et cetera. And in your mind when you're in high school, like to admit that is to admit everything. Yeah, I mean, I... Like, even just to admitting, like, I'd love to be in Oklahoma. Oh, God. We did Bye Bye Birdie one year.

And I sat in the audience and I watched this person just waste the role of Conrad Breedy. I was like, I would have been the Conrad Birdie. I just, I also, I wanted to play Rosie and Kim as well, but, you know, I really would have, I think I was appropriate for the part that I didn't go out for. Yeah. No, it happened again and again until I was finally like, how long am I going to sit in the audience knowing that not only I want to do it, but that I kind of think I can. You could do it. And so then it was, I got to college and, you know, by chance, my. RA freshman year was like, I have a fun thing for us to do this weekend. We're going to go wait on the

standby line at SNL. And for those that don't know, you can go in the morning on Friday morning. And I would get there at 11 a.m. on Friday morning. And I would wait all day and all night on the street all day. In front of 30 Rock. At 7 a.m. on Saturday, they come out and they hand out standby tickets in order. And I remember the first time I ever went, I was 39. number 39. And you come back that night with no guarantees. And they let a certain amount of people in from the standby line. I'm with a large group, but I had the first number.

And they were like, okay, we can let in the first 39 people. And probably what I should have done if I had decorum was like, oh, we'll all go. If we can't, I'll do it. We'll just go. But something inside me said, you have to go in and see it. And I said to them, I'm like, I'm going to go. And I remember getting in the elevator and turning around and the doors closed. and everyone on my floor was there just watching me do this without them.

You left them all behind. I just did because I was like, in fairness, I had the ticket. Yeah. And I was like, I just felt like I had to go. And I went up and it was James Franco was the host with Kings of Leon musical guest. This is 2008. Mind you, this is also, again, 2008. So this is when Tina is doing Sarah Palin.

And this is when Amy is 9. months pregnant doing the rap and everything. And I'm sitting there and I'm watching it. By the way, sat next to it in the audience, a then pretty kind of unknown Emma Stone, who I had known, I had known because she was in Super Bad. I'm like, oh my God, I think that's Emma Stone and her boyfriend, Teddy Geiger, the singer Teddy Geiger. So I'm sitting there watching this and, you know, she would, by the way, go on to host the show. She became a five-timer. So we're sitting there and I'm like, wow, and something like chemically altered in me. I was like, I have to, like, there's something about the energy of this I have to be around.

And so I kept going every week. I wouldn't hang out with my college friends. I would go if they wanted to come, that was fine. But I would wait on the standby line. And sometimes it would be cold and I would wait all night and I wouldn't get in. Through the night. So four o'clock in the morning, you're still standing up. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Jeez. Well, I would bring a tent. I'd bring like a little sleeping bag and you'd sleep on the street. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd think it was like an encampment. Yeah.

But it literally was just a bunch of freaks waiting on the street for this opportunity, which, by the way, they still do this. They do. Yeah. And so I had gotten in about like eight or nine times. And, you know. Eight or nine. Yeah.

And then I was so inspired in particular one day. I saw an episode that was Anne Hathaway and The Killers. And this was the first episode that Kristen Wigg ever did the Lawrence Welk show with the tiny baby hands. And I was, and I remember Seth Myers came out and he gave everyone high fives. That were the interns. And he did weekend update. And I just, I saw Tina do Sarah Palin. I was there one time when I think McCain came and was a guesting.

Like, it was wild. And just being there energetically around that was such a moment. and to say nothing of when Obama won. Yeah. And the energy in the city, it just felt like anything was possible. And I was like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to start being a version of myself now.

And I came out of the closet that summer, auditioned for the sketch comedy group, and willed myself onto it. And basically, I had just Googled Wikipedia to Amy Poehler. It was just because she was the person I respected the most. And I just followed, tried to emulate what she had done in college. Right. What's her path?

Yeah. And she had been on the improv group, she had, I found out she had started UCB. Right. So I signed up for a class that summer and I got in my sketch group and. Amazing. Yeah. Then that's how I met Bowen Yang at school.

He was in the MEPF group. I was in a sketch group. Met so many of my collaborators now. So many people that are still in the business. I'm just, I'm working with Donald Glover right now. He started that sketch group. Right.

Like Rachel Bloom, you know, like is, was in that sketch group. Yeah. It's so funny to hear. anyone's origin story, but this one in particular, because just knowing you now and how funny and it's also natural. It all just seemed, you're just such a natural, you seems so comfortable in your skin. Like, the idea that this wasn't released at some point seems so crazy. You know what's funny? Like, my freshman year of college, I thought that, like, the worst bullying I ever experienced would have been behind me because of, I went to high school and, like, was in

locker rooms on Long Island, which was kind of tough. And at that time, and, you know, I dealt with, like, my fair amount of straight men bullying me. Nobody bullies like gay men. Right. Nobody bullies, like, out gay men that are, like, finally able to be themselves in New York City. I would have the hardest time because I was a little bit later to it than them, you know, I was just, I was from a different, like, culture than, one that was like, yeah, like, be yourself. I was in a very assimilated culture. Like, it was like, you, you know, I, you know,

I went to a type of high school that had, like, clicks and, you know, like I wore like popped collar American Eagle and hemp bracelets and spoke like this and talk like this with an accent. Did you? Yes. Yes. That was your voice in high school? Yes.

Yes. You would never know I was a tenor. What times practice? It's 2 to 3.30. All right. Good. Who's the game? You're going to go out after? And then that's when I start panicking. Because that means that I'm going to a party and there's going to be girls there.

And they might want me to kiss them. So, yeah, no, I was super happy to not have to do the drag anymore. And now it's just funny because those gay guys freshman year are like, oh, he's one of the most forefront gay guys we got. Right. Like, he really, I guess, showed us and figured out his personality from when they were telling me I was, like, fake and like, I was pathetic for not being myself. It's like, if you just let me cook. Right. I promise I'll leave you all in the gay dust.

Like, red me up. But anyway, yeah, and it's interesting. It is, yeah. No, it's more devastating than, I mean, not more devastating, but it's so based the way that the guys in the locker room would mock things and, because it's so just base. But the way gay men will mock you is so cutting and filled with wit. Oh, yeah. It's so much more devastating.

What they could say to you than what these dudes could say to you. But here's the thing. But this one's more threatening, of course, and it's like, you know. Yeah, because it's existential. Right. Because this is the community you actually do belong to. Right, right, right. And that's scary when that community can feel tough on you.

And we are tough on each other. We've always been tough on each other. It's very hard, I think, for gay men to really and wholly be like, I am going to support enthusiastically these other gay people. We've just always had a hard time with that. I hope it's getting better because I hope we're just having that conversation more. But I can also say it's, you know, it's often tough. Yeah. Why?

I think there's the heart of that. I think when you see select. I think this is really what I think it is. when you are an underrepresented group, and then there's representatives for your group, it's almost like an anxiety about how that person is going to represent you because other people are watching. You know, we've not previously had a lot of diverse representation in the world.

I know it seems like, you know, the GOP would have us believe that it's, you know, gotten totally out of control with the diversity. But, you know, historically, that's not been the case. And I do think that that causes some anxiety on the part of people, in a minority group when they're finally being perceived. Right. And so I don't, while I have my frustrations and I get my feelings hurt sometimes, I understand where it comes from.

Right. Because I do know what it's like to be a very online person who's trying to connect in community, you know, in discourse or trying to connect in community in sometimes cruel discourse. Or, you know, pop culture. one second you're having fun talking about it and then all of a sudden like you're a person on the other side of it and you're like oh wow that's a misrepresentation of yeah of what i am or that's not true about me or that feels especially needless or cruel but then on the other side like i think for all that that you know that's out there that you can recognize there's also a lot of good and a lot of positivity and luckily you know bowen and i feel very like held by our audience yeah and always have and now a word from our sponsors. We'd like to thank the good people at Sheath for sponsoring today's program.

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Sheath, the underwear of legends. That means I'm a legend. The underwear of legends. Thanks to Sheet for sponsoring this episode. Get some for your dad. And now back to the show. Yeah, it's an interesting thing when, especially when it's a smaller group because you also feel like there's, a limited number of slots. Yeah. There's like, well, that was true.

Right? So, so it's, so it's hard to root for everybody when there's, everyone's clamoring for X amount of spots where it's like, you can kind of root for people

if you think, well, they're making it, but I'll make it over here. Yeah, I mean, I understand sometimes why it might be harder

to root for me than someone else. You know what I mean? When, when someone sees, when there's a perception that you are really crushing it. Like, or you're busy or you're doing a lot of stuff.

Like, I completely get that. Like, I completely get getting dunked on. Yeah, because you're at a certain level of success. Like, he's all good. Yeah. Let's root for the people that are still rising. Exactly. Of course I understand that.

But I guess I just try to focus now less on the perception out there and more on what I'm doing. Because that's what really makes me happy. and I really do feel like even if things are positive. Yeah. Like, for example, today, like, a friend of mine sent me a review for Stop That Train, the movie that I'm in coming out with Rupal. Right.

And it was a really positive review. Yeah. But I did remind myself, like, remember that they won't all be positive and they can't all be positive. Right. It's funny. Yeah, of course. When I first was working with my publicist, they would send me reviews. Uh-huh.

And I was like, oh, maybe I don't want to be sent the reviews. Right. You know what I mean? It's like, it's sometimes it's, and that was totally fine. Yeah. But I do get now why people say I don't read them. I try not to look at anything. Because if it's good or it's bad.

Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, like, it's nice to hear that people are enjoying things. But once it starts to get granular and qualitative and it starts to feel statistic in terms of who likes things and who doesn't, like the rotten tomatoes of it all, it's just kind of like. Yeah, forget it. It'll all spin you out. And then there you are doing that thing I hate, which is taking things too seriously. Right, exactly.

So, yeah. No, it's nice to kind of feel a vibe of something. Like you release something and you get an idea like, I can get a sense people are liking this. Yeah. But you don't have to read about how they're liking it. Right, right. Because, yeah, because there's going to be other stuff

and it's going to kind of change it. And it's really not your job. You've made it. You should be busy working on whatever's next anyway. I think what changed it for me was I will admit an ugly thing about a past version, you know, distant past, not distant, recent past version of myself, which is I would go on our Reddit page to see what they were saying, really because I just wanted to make sure they were enjoying the show. Right. But then it became this thing where it was clear

that a lot of the people in that environment were not actually listening to the show anymore. They were just reacting to whoever we had booked and like judging us based on. And like, judging us based on, activities that we were it just kind of was like oh I don't think they're talking about the show has nothing to do with it now they're in a club exactly and I and again I can't begrudge anyone those clubs because that's a lot of community for people et cetera yeah and and that's it they should have it I just realized this is not for me anymore right like it's no it's not for me to participate or be privy to conversations about Bowen and I's work or my work or whatever it's just like You know, I get to enjoy doing it.

Can you put the provolone down? Yeah. Yeah. I just, no, I want you to embrace it or take it, but that it's in between is weird. Okay, so I'll just, I've been wanting to hold it. I feel, yeah, okay, good. Yeah, I know it was, it was on our minds. Well, you know, when I first saw the provolone, it looked like sort of a cute pillow to me.

I was horrified to find that it's fake as fuck. Hey, hey. This is. Oh, come on. This is not a wheelchise. You're going to say the prosciutto's fake. Don't tap it too hard, you'll reveal. But I do like to have a security pillow at all times.

Yeah. Like I found that whenever I do a thing and there's a security pillow, I am clutching it. Do you, when you sleep at night, do you have a... I'm a koala. To my pillows. Yeah, me too. I have the one here. And then my wife doesn't like to spoon because it's too hot.

Yeah, that's what I'm told. So I have a girlfriend pillow that's in between us. And that's actually true love and acceptance of one another. Yeah, it's completely. We've been in a long time. Like letting go the snuggle of it all. Period. Because I'll tell you what else.

People don't talk about it because they don't want to talk about it because it's gross, I suppose. People sweat in their sleep. I do. Like, I do it. Like, I'm out here sweating. Like, I would, and then I'm self-conscious about it. I don't want people feel like they must touch me.

I had one of these when I was on tour and one of those like too deep of a nap, before the show, like flying into whatever. You got into REM. The amount of drool that was on my pillow. I fell asleep for maybe 30 seconds. It's untoward. It was a gallon of face juice on the pillow. It's not good.

And by the way, I recently hear from multiple sources that not only do I snore, but that it's pretty bad. Oh, no. And I, unfortunately, am privy to my parents snoring. which is quite simply roars. And I was like, oh, genetically, if I'm on this path, maybe it's euthanasia for me

because I don't want to live that life. I've accomplished a lot. I've done a lot of things. I don't need to turn into that. You just need a place that's big enough. All you need is one other room that you can sleep in. That's all you need.

If somebody's in trouble, if somebody's a problem tonight, just if there's an escape hatch, then you're good. You don't have to be perfect. You're not going to be perfect. And guess what? It's going to get worse.

My boyfriend swears it's adorable. Do you live with each other? We don't. So I guess that's what allows it to be adorable. No, we're like in a distance situation. But I'm seeing him right now. He got to come in for the taping of the show, which was great. He's actually on a Bravo reality show.

How long you've been together? We've been together for I guess September 4th, which is Beyonce's birthday, was our first date. So that'll be one year. One year? Yeah. Is this long? Is that long for me? I've run the gamut.

This is, I've done a relationship for two and a half years. I did one for two and a half hard months. There was one in there that was a year and this one's almost a year. So I guess he's in third place right now. Did snoring end all of them? No, because I think it's become an issue like in the past like 18 months. Oh. Yeah.

I just turned third place. So something new. So something new. Yeah, it's, your mid-30s really surprises you bodily. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do know what you mean? It's really...

Well, you know what's funny? I started working with a trainer for the first time, like, right as I turned 35. And he goes to me, yeah, it's really good. You started now, man, because 35 is when your bone density starts to go. And by 40, you're going to lose any metabolism you ever had. And I was like, fuck. It's just... You know, those...

Those lies that they tell you from the Hollywood A list that, like, you can get ripped after 40. It's like, fuck off. No, no, exactly. It's, yeah. No. If you absolutely, you know, punish yourself. Yeah. No, I had a joke in my act about old people.

It's like with muscles. Yeah. And it's like, work out all you want, get the muscles you want. But basically, it's chicken cutlets and saran wrap. 100%. Yeah. Skin is not going to change. No.

And so that's why I'm kind of like, you know, Like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna do what I can now. Yeah. But I'm not, I'm not gonna turn into, you know, something pointable at on the street. You've so far to go. Well, we hope. But I mean, yeah.

I mean, there's gotta be more, there's a different pressure. It's weird things too. To be like a straight dad. Oh yeah. And go to the beach. Right. Everyone expects you to be a fat dad at the beach. Well, now there's the dad bod.

Right. Then there's the dad bod. But didn't that kind of go. away. It felt like, it kind of felt like. There's a real pushback on it. It kind of felt like, like the death of body positivity also included the dad bot. Yeah.

The dad bot had like, what, like nine shining months? Yeah, it was like, wow, the dad bot. We actually love the dad bod. Now it's like, okay, even the men are on, like, wasting away on Ozempic. Right, exactly. Yeah, no one is safe. No, it's bad. I, yeah.

But if someone who's in Fire Island, uh, yeah, I can imagine going to the beach at a certain point, you're going to be, it's a different, it's a different standard. It really depends what state you're in. You know what I mean? Fire Island, you can get real, uh, your standards can get real low. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Trust me.

It really just depends on the mood, you know? If, if you're feeling a certain way, you wouldn't believe what you're attracted to. Um, I have been, I have been yelled at by friends, um, don't do this as I'm leaving institutions. Why? You might have met someone with a nice personality. You know? And then the moon hits their eye.

And they can't be nice enough at that point. But no. Did you feel that, did you feel that after Fire Island that it was going to kind of kick open more romantic comedies and more like... You know what's funny? Like we had that good summer.

Yeah. We had that good summer where there was bros in Fire Island, but then I think, you know, again, like we, like earlier in our conversation about the way that we can sort of be supporting each other. I really feel like looking back, people were pretty tough on Billy with the bros of it all. Right. And that was a very funny movie.

Yeah. And I was very proud to be a part of that summer where Fire Island and Bros both came out. And I think that, I would of course love to see more and do more and, you know, be a part of projects like that

because, and in a way, like, stop that train is not too far. It's not a romantic comedy, but it is a true like airplane -esque, you know, naked gun type moment with an

all queer and queer icon cast. And so, in a way, I feel like we're having a similar moment again with this movie. Interesting. And I hope the cultural awards becomes a part of that, you know, discourse too that like, I was driving over here actually and I was like, yeah, I think it's, that's like a really fun couple things to have in Pride Month to say

nothing of everything else everyone else is doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, you know, back to your thing when you're talking about how we don't have that cultural wide net any longer. Yeah. You know, it's nice. It's almost like, well, if you can just keep. making films like that and you service the people who love you the most but it also

trickles out and then who knows there's a hit and it goes even wider I think there's no like there's no way to and you shouldn't have to show business is hard enough burdened by the expectation of the performance I think the fact that you hear like of of anybody from any gender or race and they have to carry the whole black experience in this film they're just trying to get through this film and do this film yeah that's enough totally the rest of is kind of, but do you feel like we are in a different space where more will

be made? No. Because I just think that like I mean, I don't want to ever be pessimistic about things, but I mean like I rarely have auditions come in anymore. I talk to all my friends that are acting.

I'm like, are you guys auditioning for stuff? It's like, you know, everything is way, way down. And I think that's another reason why I'm super happy to be sort of pivoting to other types of projects like Bowen and I are writing a book. We actually are co-writing a movie together with Searchlight who did Fire Island. So we're teaming back up with them and we're really excited. It's about two best friends who feel rejected in their lives.

And so they go to Bergheim to prove that they can get into the most exclusive club in the world. Spoiler alert. We can't. But, you know, we're super lucky and fortunate and grateful to be able to get to do that. So it's just taking those opportunities where you can make it happen for yourself. Yeah. The industry is not making it happen for anyone, let alone, let alone focusing on marginalized communities. Yeah.

You know, they're not dying to make the gay romantic comedy happen. I think they love the regular romantic comedy to happen. Right, exactly. And so would I. I mean, like, that's, I was thinking, like, why aren't I personally at the movies as much as I want was. And the answer is because they're not making the genre I love. Yeah. Well, they're not making, I mean, all of it. Like, I was literally thinking, like, when we were younger, think about the action stars. Oh, God, yeah. You had like Stallone and Schwarzenegger and Bruce Willis and all these. And

I mean, there was tons of all of this action stuff. Yeah. And I saw the Ryan Gosseling movie where he played the stunt man. Yeah. And I loved that. And also, by the way, I'll go for something that feels compelling. I'll go for that. I went to see Naked Gun twice two days in a row. I saw, I will be there at Stop That Train. That's not just because I'm in it, because I would be there anyway. And then I try to get out there for the Oscar movies. But, you know, again, like even those I don't think have been as interesting. To be quite honest with you.

No, they're just not making as much. It's just the bottom line. It's just of all of it. And I am truly, like, I'm lucky because I feel like a lot of us know, like, the heyday of the romantic comedy that was the 90s. Yeah. Like, and I loved all those movies so much and they just don't do them or they're on Netflix and they feel kind of a little different. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't know why. I can't figure that out. Yeah. That's probably just the fact that like they had a few that should have performed better and then they did in and it felt like a write-up of the genre, which is such a shame because, you know, those should be movies that shouldn't cost that much either. No, exactly. I loved what Core Jefferson said at the Oscars a couple years ago when he won the best adapted screenplay Oscar for American.

fiction. And he said, instead of making one, $100 million movie, make $10 million movies. And, you know, has it happened? I don't really know. I'm really, I always love to hear about a small movie like obsession kicking ass the way it is. And I think it's very interesting to see that come out and, you know, kind of make more money than something like the Mandalorian and Grogu. Right. And I don't know. I think that they, They often tend to, I think, take the wrong lessons from stuff. Yeah. But, you know, what do I know?

It's such a weird time. I mean, just when you go by all the studios now and it's like... Empty. Empty. I did guest star on Palm Royale, and that was shooting on the Warner Brothers lot. And I came out and I had like a wig and a mustache and like a cool 70s look. And I was like playing like a real Palm Beach gay, got undercover gay guy in the 70s. And I got out of my trailer and a,

tram tour went by and I was like oh wow for like one second I got to feel what it's like to be on the line costume for like one second yeah and I genuinely took that moment in because I was like that doesn't really happen if you're if you're like lucky to hit the jackpot and book something like abbott elementary or you know then you get to have that real cool experience of I'm doing 22 episodes on the lot yeah you know but it doesn't happen anymore I know someone told me they're making part of the Warner Brothers pickleball. Some of the, some of the, yeah. You know, and as a theme park person, like, I have a, I have like a 50-50 about this,

but I think a lot of that universal lot is going to be the theme park soon. Oh, really? The buzz I hear on the ground and the streets is that a lot of those studios are going to be theme park expansion. Really? Oh, it's a weird time. If you're eras to the ground, like mine is, like my, my, like, um, weird thing that I do to calm myself down

as I watch like roller coaster and theme park construction. Yeah, it's a very niche interest that I have, but I'm in the community. I'm like in the community. What do you mean? There's a guy named theme park shark. Yeah.

And he calls me a legend. I break loose. Why? Why are you a legend? Because they know the girls on the ground know to come to come with me to me with the leaks. I was talking about all the themed lands at Epic Universe before they were announced. I'm like, I'm in the NBC Universal family, but they know I'm like, my obligation is to the fans.

You know what I mean? I have to stay real out here. Do you go to these parks? Yes. You like a roller coaster? You know, a metric ton of edibles. I go down there and have a good time. What's your favorite?

My favorite roller coaster in America is, well, I would actually. say it's a tie. There's, yeah. The Velocaster in Universal Studios, Orlando, it's an island's adventure. It's amazing because it's like, it's a really, really intense roller coaster, but it's also very well themed, which I love. And then there's another one called Superman Ride of Steel in Six Flags New England,

which is really, really good. Really? Is it one of those that you dangle? So I'm not really a dangle. I will dangle. It's not my roller coaster of choice. I like a good old fashioned what they call a hypercoaster, which is like an out and back, like, you know, over 200 feet. That's how you get to hypercoaster. Over 300 is giga coaster. Yeah, I knew this.

Yeah. And actually, I at the time did the tallest and fastest roller coaster in the world when it was at Six Flags Great Adventure. It was called King de Kha. But now I can't do the tallest and fastest roller coaster in the world because it's in Six Flags Cadilla City in Saudi Arabia and I ain't going there. I can't do that. Break out your Long Island high school guy.

I know. Ignore all the problematic shit and just go. Maybe they'll pay me $16 million to. Yeah. Pop a collar. Exactly. Do a set. Just pretend, pretend it's all good.

Yeah, no. It's actually over 600 feet tall. Whoa. And it goes like, I think like something like almost 200 miles per hour. Well, I don't want to be like your trainer. But. It is getting harder. It's going to get harder.

No, literally. the G-forces destroy me for the day. Bowen and I went down to Epic Universe, the new Universal theme park. They wanted us to ride a roller coaster with the GoPro on it, and they were going to put it on social. Leah remembers because I called her after it.

So it was so hot in Orlando, and we had just done hot ones. Oh, God. You know, that's another food talk show. So basically, like, our bodies were full of chicken wing. Oh, no. It was so hot. We were exhausted.

We had just come back from Cannes to do like Can Lion marketing for the culture awards. It was insane. We were dehydrated and fucked. Road hard and put away wet. They put us on the roller coaster, strapped the GoPro on. We do it once. It was very intense. My body was breaking.

The person comes over and goes, okay, amazing. So we're going to go again. And then I realized, oh, right. It's a shoot. They need like takes of it. Oh, no. So I go, okay, I look at Bowen. His eyes are crossed.

I was like, and they go and remember like you did lift your arms and we can't actually have you lift your arms like remember to keep for the video like you know just keep i was like okay um we can do this one more time and then we do have to go because we're going to be sick and the content won't be good and we'll be ill and they go okay cool yeah one more time so we do it i guess my hands came off the bar for a second we parked and they were like could you do it again i was like i cannot i cannot Then they showed us the footage. Bowen was somehow turning the performance of Lifetime, smiling, laughing.

I am like melting from the inside. So now I know it's going to look like that. I got back to the hotel. I called Leah, my publicist, and started crying. Because it was too early in the year to be this tired. And I was like, I don't know, like, if we could take something off the schedule tomorrow or whatever. and mind you, it was my dream to go to, like, they're going to fly you down to Orlando to, like, ride a roller coaster before it opens, go to the state of our park. I've been watching

be built for years. I go there, I'm crying, full of chicken wing and dead and devastated. Well, the chicken wing was a big mistake. I don't know what was the biggest mistake, though. Was it the chicken wings? Was it being there in, when it was that humid? Was it just my body giving up on me? It could be all these things. Well, that's the thing. Back to your trainer. Like, yeah, give it 10 years. And it's going to be all those things all the time. No, my, my, I recently like, I suggested to my father who used to take me on these rides when I was a kid doing one. He was like, no, I ain't doing that. He's like, I think I would die. No. Yeah, this is so sad to admit, but I had trouble on swings not long ago. Yeah, sure. Just going back and forth. I know. I'm there with you. I wouldn't do it. I didn't feel good. There was a time I sky. I started. You did? Yes. Why? 18 and peer pressure. Oh, really? You did it? I was 18 years old. It was me and my friends from high school, Kenny, Nick, Carl, and Kevin and our one friend, Lorraine, and we were going to go skydiving as a graduation, like, gift to ourselves. Yeah. I guess gift, in quotes. I am like, yeah, for sure, we're going to go, let's do this. I, like, fancying myself a little daredevil. Then we get, in the plane, I realize I hate flying. Why am I jumping out of the plane?

You do it. Like, yeah, that age, you don't realize until you're on the plane up in the air. Oh, by the way, it was the worst experience of my life. I'm dry heap throwing up while I'm plummeting from the skies. What they don't tell you about skydiving is that you go from 13,000 feet, you plummet freefall for 90 seconds. Yeah. And then they pull the thing. you still float down for 12 minutes.

12 minutes? Yes. No. So then you're, there's nothing under you. You have to fly tandem with the guy. This guy. You can imagine this guy was a freak and a half. He had like a Mohawk, spiky mohawk.

I don't remember if his name was Max or Trask. It could have been either he had the energy of both. We start floating down and that's when my body started to like panic. so I'm dry heaving in my shirt while this man is tied to my back. You're going to be okay, dude. Why the dry heaving hits at that point? Because I thought it would be a smarter idea to not eat that day so that I wouldn't have anything to throw up.

That sounds smart. But then when I was on an empty stomach, I guess I just didn't have enough, like, juice in my body to get through the experience. So that was terrible. And we finally land, of course they got it all on video because we paid a little more to get it videotaped. My friend Kevin, who I went with, goes,

well, I loved it. I don't know. I'm going to go again in two weeks. So he goes again in two weeks, comes back. I said, how was skydiving? He goes, we landed, and the guy told me, yo, I had to go to the backup shoot. What?

Mid-freefall, he pulls the cord that is supposed to make the thing pop out. I'm about to say balloon pop out. The parachute pop out, thank you. And he said it didn't work. And for the first time in his career ever, like as a tandem, sky jump instructor or whatever they are. He had to pull the backup shoot and thank God the backup shoot worked. And by the way, had it not, you've signed

your life away already. Yeah, no, that's it. Cannot sue. Do you ever hear the bounce? The bounce? When you hit. What's that? When you hit, you bounce. That's, that's, yeah. You don't just explode? No, you, no splat.

You hit, and it's like 50 feet back up. What? Yeah. That's not true. That's what I hear. What in you bounces? All of it. Oh, my God.

Yeah, and you're hitting the earth and it's, yeah. Okay, I just, I do feel, though, if I was mid-skydive and I found out it was not going to happen, like with that a parachute was not coming out. Yeah. I do think at that point, like, you're like, oh, wow, I'm going to die. And at least you know it's not. going to be painful because I would imagine that's a that's a right away moment. Oh yeah. Bounce or whatever. I I would guess when you learn that you probably pass out within 30 seconds.

It's like if I was in the ocean and I saw a shark. Yeah. I would die of shock immediately. Right. It wouldn't need to kill me. No. At that point I'm done. They're eating a dead guy. 100%, which I'm sure they would love. I'm not going to struggle. Nothing. Easy lunch for them. Yeah. I yeah, but no, I sometimes I'll get turbulence on a plane in my body. will go into like what feels like sepsis. I'm like, oh, like, I'm literally like, my one shoulder just kind of goes involuntarily like that. My body twists in a knot because I'm ready for death because of like a little air pocket.

Right. Are you, are you at an age now where you are starting to think like there's certain things you just won't do? Like you're not going to do. Not doing anything. Yeah. Not doing any of that. Like when you're young, you kind of get talked into things because you want to go a

and you want to be a part of the thing. Here's a word. Skiing? Right. No thanks. My, again, my boyfriend, like, lives part of the year in Aspen. I somehow got, like, a chic boyfriend who does things like ski in Aspen. Is he rich?

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so. And so, like, he has this language for it. Uh-huh. And I've never, ever been. And that is something I refuse to learn at my age, at what I'm going to call my big age.

Yeah. Because my body will break in half. No, it'll break in half. I'll be a casualty. I did a show in Aspen last year. And when you're flying in, everyone's all excited and fresh in their new clothes and stuff. And the flight leaving, it's just a ton of people in crutches. Yep, decimated.

Everyone that is just a knee, an ankle. Do you ski? I have done. have skied. Yeah. I have skied. And it's, you know, no. I will say this setup is very do you ski in another way? This is very much a cocaine table. Unfortunately. I love any cocaine aesthetic. This is very, um, uh, not John and Vinnie's, what's the, um, uh, Muso and Frank vibe. Yes. Love that. Oh, yeah. My favorite places in the world. Well, congratulations. I can't wait to see the show. It's going to be, uh, I always love seeing you. I feel like, um, have you still been

kicking it, um, in Chicago? In Chicago. Wait, wait, wait. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm still doing it. I'm still guessing. I'm going to go do it in Austin, actually, Thursday. Amazing. Yeah, I love that show. Did Bill have his last day? He did. He retired. He retired. And, uh, he what a legend. I have to think of a good gift to get him. I really want to, I couldn't fly in and say, maybe we'll send a note. But yeah, that would be a good thing. Bill, Bill Curtis. Yeah, Bill Curtis. Yeah, he's just a legend. What a lovely man. I know. He's so cool. Yeah. And I can't think of like the right gift to get him. I don't know. I got to give it some thought. I don't know. That is a he because he is one you you want to you want to score on the gift. Yeah exactly. Yeah. But you know that's I always say that's the scariest show I ever do because it reveals what I do and do not know that week about politics. Yeah, which is that's everybody. I know. I've decided I just got to lean in. Yeah. Be a clown. No one expects me to be right. Right. Policy. I could be I could be funny wrong or

yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I baked you this bread this morning Thank you so much. Do I get to keep that bread? Yes, we have a bag for you, you get to bring it home. Let me know if you like it. Did you become a connoisse during the pandemic like everyone else? No. No, before.

Yeah. Way before. He's always making the bread. And more ways than one. When people tell you like, oh, get COVID. Yeah. Actually, I can't wait to feed this to my boyfriend. He's got a little too skinny.

All right. So, yeah, batten him up. He's been stressed out, so I'm going to eat him this bread. It'll be good today. Tomorrow will be even better. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Is that how sourdough works?

Yeah. Intriguing. It's still a little active right now. So why does it get better the next day? It's still, the sugars are breaking down. It's just becoming, it's just settling. I didn't know I would learn today. Yeah.

I'm leaving richer in bread and knowledge. But sincerely, it was really great. I've been wanting you to come on this podcast for a long time. We've done the radio show before. I know, and it's always a highlight. Yeah, it's fantastic. Thanks, man. Appreciate you.

You're the best.