Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 334 - Sheng Wang

Episode Date: July 7, 2026

This week we welcome Sheng Wang to the table! He and Tom talk comedy touring, life moving quickly, and of course, lots and lots of food. Enjoy! Our thanks to: Square! Get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at square.com/go/papa! #squarepod Monarch! Start your free trial and get 50% off your first year of total money clarity using link www.monarch.com/PAPA or code PAPA Butcher Box! As an exclusive offer, new listeners can get their choice between free ribeyes for a year, or ground beef or chicken breast for life, PLUS $20 off when you go to ButcherBox.com/papa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It was quiet, some people walking around. I saw ducks land. Ducks come in for a landing funny, dude. They come in funny looking. Feet flapping. Yeah, the fear come out first. I mean, and the wings are, it's a lot of, like, whoa, whoa. Not a last minute, like, adjustments.

They come in goofy. That's a goofy. Not the most, not an eagle, by any measure. It's breaking bread. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. I just got off the road so I didn't have time to bake you bread. So I went to Tartine and got you this big bad boy.

It's beautiful. It is beautiful. And you're going to love, have you ever had bread from Tartine? I think so. Yeah. I think so. But let's talk about this. Okay.

What do you want to know? Is this a crust? This is a crust. Okay. This is an ear. When you slice it, you slice it to let air out when you make it. And, excuse me. if you have, if everything is good,

you get this kind of rise out of it. That ridge. That ridge. What do they call it technically? Ear. Oh, technically? Earlobe. An earlobe.

And yeah, you always want to try and nail that. That means that you had enough activity going on in it, and you had good, good dough. And tartine, I mean, these guys are the ones who kind of cracked open artisanal bread in North America. Yeah. And, you know, everybody who was learning. when my first book was the Tartine book,

and I'm always trying to emulate these guys. And you can, I can get close, but you can never get exactly as good as this. What aspect are you trying to achieve still? If you feel it, it's pretty spongy. There's a sponginess to it. And I'll even use the same flour mix. You know, people lie.

I'm not saying Tartine's liars, But I use the, you could do it exactly the same. They tell you how to do it. Yeah. In their, yeah, these tartine cookbooks. And, yeah, there's just a little, it's a little earthier. There's like an earthiness to it, a very unique flavor. Theirs?

Yeah, this one. This one. So it's the earthiness. And yours is less spongy? It's a little less spongy. But I did learn a trick. If, when you take it out of the oven, if you cover it immediately with a, towel.

It keeps kind of the moisture in and it gives you that spongy. Ah, I see. Yeah. I like that. Okay. So this is the ear. When do you make that incision? Before it goes in the oven.

After the rise. After the rise, you take it out of the oven after it's proofed in a basket. Uh-huh. And you put it onto some parchment paper. And as it's sitting there, this little baby uncooked loaf, you take a lom, which is a razor, and slice it. That's one cut. That's one cut.

Yeah. Okay. I'd be tempted to do more. So this one cut, but this is the other side of it. Yeah, maybe they did a little one over here. I mean, I assume that's a spreading. I think it's just one.

Yeah. It's pretty beautiful. And when you, and you see like all of the little bubbles on it, that's steam. That's all steam. It's all just water that they put on. on top of it. At home, you use a spray bottle and cover it in a Dutch oven.

In these ovens, it just has automatic, psh. Yeah. The steam, just like a little, very light vapor, like hits the skin and creates bubbles. Exactly. Really? Mm-hmm. That's crazy to me.

Yeah. Wow. I thought that was something underneath pushing it. I mean, I don't know. That's interesting. No. Uh-uh. Wow.

That's beautiful. Yeah, I mean, that's more surface area for more crunch. Yeah. It's a lot. It looks like a very crunchy crust. Yeah. It's right. And it will, this will last you for the week. I mean, I don't know how many people you live with, but if you ate this whole thing, I'd be concerned about you. Yeah, yeah. But you mean, I could let it, I could have it for about a week before. Yeah. Just put a towel over it and leave it out on your cutting board. Don't put it in plastic. Then it gets too gummy. Put it in a towel and just leave it out on the table like that? Yep. Wow. Yeah, and you're good. I'm glad I can give you the knowledge of it

because I normally would bake it for you. Mm-hmm. But I just ran out of time. It's okay. This is lovely. Thank you. Thank you for the bread. All right.

You're welcome. Do you ever bake? I'm going to squeeze it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Do you want to taste it now? No. I'm okay.

Okay. Do you cook? I have baked a little bit. You're gardening, right? I'm just, I'm just a life, a plant, a plant nature light, and living nature enthusiast. Yeah. Yeah.

What do you mean? How do you describe that? I mean, I don't know. It's expanding. I was just like into plants. Right. I mean, I was, you know, as a kid, I was in animals. You know, you learn the zoo animals first.

Who was your prime animal when you were a kid? Maybe like an eagle. An eagle. Maybe a eagle. I learned how to draw an eagle at some point, you know. So that was my guy. Right. Did you ever see one in person when you were a kid?

Not like, I don't know, maybe at the zoo or something, but not like, I don't think I ever got to get up close with like a falconer or something like that, you know? Yeah, yeah. Have you ever been to Alaska? No. But loads of eagles. They're like pigeons up there. It's pretty remarkable. Wow.

They're just, just birds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. It's pretty great. I was in Victoria, not that far from, was that Vancouver Island? Yeah. And they've got this one totem pole that's like the tallest, there's some record, the tallest somewhere, maybe in the park, but it's a tall totem pole. And I just pulled up on my bike and I was with Louis Katz, my friend and a comedian. And there was a bald eagle at the very top of it. it and it was a real one I thought it was part of the thing I thought they finished the statute it's just it's felt appropriate appropriate to top it on with the eagle it looked

pretty badass and then I started moving I was like oh dang he knows the probably place to perch yeah that's pretty amazing um they're they're badass animals I've had an encounter with I think they call them kites but they're they're big birds of prey looking like You know, cool-looking birds. Like a big falcon, right? Yeah. They'd have these black kites in Kyoto, Japan. And I went back there recently, and they'd have these signs I'd tell you, be aware.

Because it happened to me several years ago. I was out there just chilling by the river. It's lovely. It's very beautiful. And I'm having a pork bun that I got from the store. And when those birds came down and it swiped it out of my hand as I'm eating it, you know? Oh, no. It was a complete shock.

You know. All of a sudden, you're in feathers? Well, all of a sudden, my bun is gone. It, like, grabbed it. It actually, then they dropped it, like, a couple feet away, like 10 feet away. And then all these other ones just started diving and taking swipes. And then, like, 15 seconds, it was gone. And you're just watching.

I was like. I paid for that. Yeah. But it was worth the show, you know. I'd do that again. But it was, it was scary when I didn't, I had no idea it was going to, you know. Yeah. I'd anticipate it.

I remember I was in Atlantic City once, and I was out on the boardwalk. And this kid, he was a nerdy-looking kid. He had glasses. He was pretty frail, maybe like 10 years old. And I was just watching him because he was just walking by himself on the sand. And he had a big thing of popcorn. And he's just walking. And a seagull came and was like hanging around.

And you could tell that the bird realized, this kid's weak and it went in for for one and same thing as soon as that one did it and he kind of giggled and then like 10 just descended on his popcorn

and he was crying and they were just like every colonel they were taking every bit of popcorn and he was sobbing it was the saddest funniest thing I saw yeah yeah they took all of it. And he was just crying. I'm glad you caught that.

Yeah, it was pretty good. I've seen a moment, I've seen a moment like that too. Yeah, basically a kid with some food and birds. That's a good recipe. I had a friend in New York who was really scared of pigeons. And she was like a hardcore New Yorker. She was a server at the comedy seller. And, you know, like she'd been working there for 15 years, like a hardcore, like, commuting down to the village every day, New Yorker. She was great. And terrified of pigeons.

Yeah. It's like, how do you live in New York? Right. If that's your fear. Because they are everywhere. But she, I walked with her one time down the street and she, like, just wheeled up. And I was like, what's up? And a pigeon was over there.

It was like, how do you get home? That's a lot of stress. It's a lot of stress. What about goats when you're a kid? What about goats? I never really like them. I know a lot of kids like them, but they have those devil eyes. They do.

I mean, I think the thing is they're common at like petting zoos. So you have an account, you know, that's an early animal to like get up and close with. But yeah, I don't like those eyes, man. I know. I don't either. How long have you been tripping about those eyes? You know, I never trusted them as a kid. But then my sister has this farm.

in New Jersey and then we got up close on them. And as an adult, I was like, oh, this is why I've been avoiding them. Right, right. They get those sideways eyes. Yeah. I don't trust that. Yeah, it's rare to see right angles in nature like that. Yeah, exactly.

You know, it's a perfect rectangle. So you were into animals when you were a kid. Yeah. And in your nature journey, where are you now? I mean, I still love animals, but I'm really, I mean, the thing about, the cool thing about, like, appreciating plants is that it's everywhere. And you can get, you can be in all everywhere. Can I tell you something that I saw in an elevator?

Yeah. It was one of those, this weekend on the road, and it was one of those, did you know, you know, the little thing in like a little LED screen in the elevator to amuse you on your way? And it's, did you know? that there are more trees on planet Earth than there are stars in our galaxy. Does that seem possible? I don't know. I mean... You're the plant guy.

I mean, this seems like a lot and a lot, you know? So I don't know which one is more. It seems like a lot and a lot versus a lot. I mean, our galaxy, I don't know how big our galaxy. We've got a big galaxy, but it's not as big as the rest of the... I don't know. I just don't know. I don't know what, you know.

It seems unlikely. I mean, when I look up, I see stars, it seems like a bunch of them. Yeah, but they might not be the ones in our galaxy. Oh. I don't know. I mean, I got it. I did just get my eye fixed, so I am seeing better. You see more?

Yeah. That's great. What'd you do? Do you get cataracts? No, kind of. It's, you know, it's kind of similar. It's called a caratectomy. Okay.

And it's, I had a, I had like a blister on this eye for like 15, 20 years. I know everyone here is getting sick of this story. And for 20 years, I just, everything was fuzzy. And a new doctor with a new method, and he took it off. And now I can see, you're like in high deaf right now. Congrats. And these are my old glasses, so. That's awesome.

I'm a little buzzy. No, that's awesome. Yeah, I don't know. I'm starting to feel like far-sided a little bit more now, where, you know, like, things are kind of hard to see. Sometimes I'm more up closer. Yeah, it's changing. Yeah. It's changing.

But the more I can see, the more I'm realizing, I think there's more stars than trees. But then you've got to start looking at the trees now. Yeah, you're right. You got to start paying attention to trees. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, but that's the cool thing is there's so many plants like anywhere.

I mean, you can have them in your house, but you can just be outside taking a nice walk. And, you know, I just like just how diverse they are. I mean, it's just the fact that they can, they're alive and they're going to reproduce. Yeah. And they're, you know, that's life, you know. Like, we're alive. That's alive.

We're all earthlings. Like, that's, that's a fellow earthling, you know? Right, right. And there's fellow life that you can kind of connect to there, you know? Yeah. That's just, and, and the styles, right? There's so many looks, so many color, so many, you know, categories, like just botanically, but then, like, visually, there's just, like, cool visuals, like, color pairings,

sheen versus mats, you know, slight variations in the, you know, so many different kinds of greens. And then once they start going to flower, I mean, the whole idea of reproduction, it's just, it's just a lot to learn, you know? Like, and there's so many cool little facts, man, like, you know, you know, you know, that, you know, when you eat a kernel, I mean, a ear of corn of the cob, you know, you know, when you husk it, there's the big, you know, those things like, those big green leaves. Yeah. You pull that off and there's all that silk, that flossy stuff.

Yeah, the silk, yeah. Each one of those is correlated to one kernel. One kernel of corn? Yeah. So when it's growing? So when that thing is growing, that silk is up top. That's like the, I don't know, the stamen of the pistols. It receives the pollen and it goes to one kernel.

So one silky thing while it was growing turned into a kernel. Well, it's connected to the kernel. It helps fertilize the kernel. And so you need that. Each kernel gets their own individual's tube. Yeah. And so you've had a, you've ever been eating corn and you hit a patch like a ball spot. Yeah.

The tube didn't get a pollen. It was a weak tube. Yeah, the tube was no good. Yeah, he didn't get the deal. Really? Yeah, I mean, just cool. That is cool. How do they do this?

Yeah. Reproduction is crazy. I know. I don't know. It's just wild to learn about, and it's just nice to connect to and realize that's a fellow life, a living earthling. Can you eat a salad without crying? Yeah, I love salad I love salmon

Do you have a With your With your love of plants That seems to be growing Does it make you Think about what you eat Do you eat meat? Yeah

Yeah, I eat I mean I go through like phases where I try to be more plant-based But yeah They're just part of the system Yeah Yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess I'm also just, yeah, looking at systems. Mm-hmm.

You know, like the earth is a giant system. Yeah. And there's all these regional ecosystems of life. And it's really cool and amazing and I don't know. It's cool to see how, like, in a great, healthy ecosystem, it's all beautifully balanced. Everybody gets what they need. It's amazing. Yeah. And there's no waste.

Yeah. It's mind-blowing and beautiful. It is. It's wild to me that they're still finding drugs based on plants. Like they still haven't discovered all of it. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, so I guess like, I guess my appreciation is getting wider to like just the idea of life.

Yeah. You know, like this planet as like a living thing. You know, down to the microbes, down to the east that raised this bread. And it's insane when you zoom back and just the stuff that we know of the universe around us, that we're the only ball that has all this. That is really insane. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it may exist somewhere, you know, but from what we've been able to eke out. Right. It's just rocks and inhospitable places. Yeah. And that this one is just popping off. Right. It's a miracle. miracle. It's an oasis in the crazy desert of emptiness. Or, you know, yeah, a big, a lot of space.

Yeah. That's the thing. Like, like, like, those, the microbes made the dirt from the rocks. You know, that's where it starts. And then, you know, there's a lot of things that go on, but with that, there was no atmosphere before there was plants, you know? Right. So that, they provided a place for us to even, like, be able to exist. Jeez. So, I don't know. It's just cool to think about, and it's good to, like... When's the last time you had poison ivy?

I don't think I've had poison ivy. You've never had poison. Where'd you grow up? I grew up in Houston. Maybe it was... They don't have poison ivy there? I don't know. Were you East Coast?

I was East Coast. New Jersey. See, like, I hear about poison ivy out there. And then on the West Coast, we have poison oak. Right. Right. Yeah. I see that and avoid those.

But I don't usually... get, I haven't really got caught up in them. Good for you. Yeah. It would turn your, it would turn your love affair with plants. You start looking at them as the enemy. Right. Man.

What happened? You get blisters. You get blistery bubbles of, uh, the most itchy, irritating stuff. It's really, I haven't had in a long, long time. But when I was a teenager, I got it. And I would get a lot because I was playing, I was playing, I was playing, in the woods and running around like a nut. Yeah.

And then the worst was I got it on the back of my knee. Yikes. Like behind there, like where your leg is constantly doing this. Yeah. And it was constant. Every time I walked, it would pop the blisters. Oh, no. And we were going away on vacation to Bermuda, which is like, you know, beach and fun.

And the whole vacation, I just had to stay in the hotel room while my family was outside. having a good time. Wow. And I just laid in there with a mass of blisters on the back of my leg. And it's so much. And that's when I turned on plants. Yeah, trauma. Yeah, trauma.

I didn't know. I didn't know it could be that bad. It was really bad. That's terrible. I saw already hear that. Yeah, it's all right. Thanks for your support. Dang.

So have you been to the botanical gardens out here that? That's a cool spot. isn't it? There's, yeah, there's quite a few. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's Descanso. There's the Huntington. Huntington, I think, is one I thinking.

It's beautiful. God. Yeah. They have that one area with all the cactuses, and then they've got all the bonsai trees over there, like hundreds of years old. Yeah. It's really a special place.

I love the desert garden there. Yeah. You know, like that, that to me is like where you, a garden like that is, I don't know, To me, it really showcases, like, the characters of the desert. Like, the way they, they're just so many, like, vibes, so many different looks. You know, there's, like, the tall guy, there's the old hairy guy. There's the pot-old, all the guys are laying, they're laying down.

There's, you know, crazy flowers. It's just, and then, and there's certain, like, points where you can, like, when you just look at the whole thing, it looks, like, it looks like perfectly. you know, it just looks like a group picture of a party. It's like a party in the desert and these guys are all like, what's up? You know, there's stories everywhere, you know? Yeah.

There's scenes and there's just different, you know, yeah, it's really cool. My brother-in-law got too close to one of the cactuses and it, they're tough. Like, it shot something at him. And he was messed up for months. Damn. Yeah, it got him on his arm and he was itchy and it was in. him.

Yeah. And it took months before he felt normal again. Yeah. Yeah. That party, they were like, get out of here. Fats out. Don't be so close. You know, we need our space.

Yeah, they're vicious. They're very effective. Yeah. You know, you can't be soft out there. No. We'd like to thank the good people at Butcher Box for sponsoring today's program. You can tell it's summer because I'm wearing a fish on my shirt. And I'm not in the studio.

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Has your, I mean, your jokes have always been, you do have an eye for the material also. Like your jokes are a little more cerebral, a little bit, you're not going to be, you don't have anything actually in your sets that I've heard before. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah. You know, there's other people that, you know, do subjects that we've had and they could have a fresh take on it. That's all cool. But you have, you go into areas that are uniquely you. Yeah, I guess. I guess that's,

from like the comedy that I like to do, but also just getting older and just getting more experienced with this craft. Yeah. But I really do enjoy doing that. I really enjoy like finding these little moments. I think it is just paying attention. A lot of these things we all,

that's why it's relatable is because we all have experienced them in these small moments that we don't remember. Right. It's not memorable. It's not impactful. Right, right. You know. And I like...

So you call them out and shine a lot. light on them. Yeah. I like, I like, I like, I like to just be, I don't know, usually I'm not present and right after I'm like, oh, that's kind of weird that I just, that just happened, you know, I'm doing this right now. You know what I mean? I like, because it just gives me more, yeah, I don't know, some presence into my life, but, and maybe some understanding into my, my person, you know, my mind. That's, so yeah, I'm just great, I'm really grateful. I still love doing the craft. Right. I think part of it is because it helps me understand me and in my relationship with the things around me.

Right. Are you still touring with Allie? Occasionally. Ali, just for our listeners. You worked with it for a long time. You guys are good friends. Yeah, Ali Wong, I was a good friend of mine. We started comedy in the same scene, about a year apart.

And yeah, from San Francisco. Yeah. Like 20 plus years ago. Yeah. And she was talking about you for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Just how great you were and how funny.

Oh, that's sweet. Yeah, it was a nice joint emergence. Yeah, I mean, no, I'm very grateful for her friendship and for her in my life. I mean, we're really close. Yeah. During the pandemic, I brought her bread. Yeah, she mentioned that. Yeah, and I haven't in such a long time.

And I was thinking, I don't want to let that one get away. Yeah. I should reconnect, you know, because people get busy and she's so, she's making so much great stuff and she's always on tour and family and all that stuff and I was thinking I should I should reach out and drive by

with some bread. It doesn't have to be a pandemic to make it happen. Yeah, drop off some bread. Take a walk. She likes to and walks too. Yeah. Yeah. So do you get to go out with her now? I do. Are you going and doing your own thing? A little bit of both. Yeah.

I'm taking some time off. I'm doing And she's starting to get her tour into a full swing again. Yeah. And so we're like on different cycles a little bit. I just finished mine like a month or two months ago. Oh, yeah. Or about a month or so ago.

And so I'm in that new, just trying to figure out the next thing or just, you know, it's just no pressure right now sort of, you know, as long as I don't, yeah. There's no pending deadlines or shows. You know, to go do a theater show for an hour and have it. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So that's got to be fun to be able to go out and do some stuff with her and do 20 minutes while you're just putting stuff together. Yeah.

That's got to be good in front of her great audiences. For sure, for sure. I'm always like, yeah, grateful we get to travel together. Yeah. The experience is, yeah, it's great to have, you know, 20 minutes to open for her crowd. And, um, but we also are like just good homies and we travel both together. And she brings her family and, you know, we're all very close. Yeah, yeah.

I'm like her daughter's goddparents, me and my partner. So it's a fun family situation. Yeah, that's great. It's wholesome. We do, like, fun activities. Yeah, we go gardens. We do museums. Oh, nice.

It's a good time. That is a good time. Are you good with going to museums and doing a bunch of stuff before you have a show at night? I always find them exhausting. You got to get at it earlier and then take a nap in between. Right. You know. Right.

That's smart. Yeah. Or, you know, book the travel so you have a day off. Right. I try to slow it down a little bit so I can kind of have some time, downtime that's not just before the show. Right. You know, either afterwards hang out or before hang out a little bit. That's ideal.

Yeah. You're very thoughtful person. I always think that. I'm always like, when I go to Columbus, Ohio, I should take an extra day and take in the thing. And then as soon as the show's over, I'm. I'm moving my flight even earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, I'm done with this town.

Get me the 6 a.m. 4 o'clock pickup. I should slow down and stick around. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you have a family to come home to, you know? Yeah. That's something, that's a... That was the draw. I called it the dad flight.

Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. You know, that makes sense. I don't know. Yeah. I would probably do the same, you know? I was in Columbus, I think in November. And I, yeah, I mean, we got in the day of the show, but woke up the next morning, took a walk around the park, did a few exercises.

I have my, like, Chinese grandma at the park exercises, you know, like, swinging the arms, you know, some squats and whatnot. But I was just out there doing them by myself by the pond. I just, I just, I had that memory, like, it's just me, and I'm shamelessly doing my old grandma exercises. right now. That's funny. Impressing all the white people. Yeah, it was like, just like, it was quiet, some people walking around. I saw ducks land.

Ducks come in for a landing funny, dude. They come in funny looking. Feet flapping. Yeah, the fear come out first. I mean, and the wings are, it's a lot of, like, whoa, whoa. Not a last minute, like, adjustments. They come in goofy. That's the goofy.

Not the most. Not an eagle, by any measure. But yeah, I don't know. These small cities that you don't, aren't necessarily destinations. No, exactly. It's still fun to like walk around the neighborhood, see these houses, see, you know,

how do people live here? It's still cute. Yeah, because to me, that's the most appealing part of it is it's not the scene at night when you get out of it, right? That part is repellent to me. Right. When I get out of the show and there's like,

that street is popping off and it's got all these people. I'm like, I will get, how do I get to my hotel room immediately? And how do I, and let me turn on the fence so I don't hear them from the hotel room. But the early mornings when the place is opening up, like that to me is the most appealing part of those places. Yeah, it's nice. It's nice that morning light and walking around. I enjoy those times.

Yeah. It's crazy. I was surprised how much I enjoyed Ohio in general, because I was there like in like the fall and it was beautiful. Yeah. Oh, God, yeah. Cleveland, very cute. I know.

I love Cleveland. Free, I think the garden's free. The art museum is free. I was talking to somebody. Every time you go to Cleveland, they're like inviting you to the rock and roll hall of fame. I can never do it. I haven't been.

I'm just like, I don't know. need to see Queen's Pants. You know what I mean? Yeah. I love the music. It's all great. I get it. But I don't need to see Gene Simmons guitar pick.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Phil Collins. Vest. Right. Exactly.

Not interested. I'd rather take a nap for my show. Yeah. I haven't been either. But that's there. Yeah, it's there. They have that there. They have that beautiful arcade hotel.

You know, that they shot some Superman. Yeah, the end of Superman was in that. Anybody that worked hilarities coming up and stayed in that hotel was so psyched at the end of Superman. Did you see, you saw Superman? The new one? Yeah, yeah. Remember at the end they're like in that beautiful like arcade. There's like all those lights and all that.

That's a hotel room where they just put poor comedians. It's actually the only ones that stay in there. There's some weddings, but mostly just comics that are playing that they have a deal with. I got to step it up. I got to be at the Superman Hotel. It's so great. Everyone who saw that was like, that's mine. That is my hotel.

Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, it was a nice spot. Did you do a lot of clubs like that when you were coming up? No. Yeah, I feel like you had your own path. I didn't. I love talking to you. You just have a, you just.

You're not normal. What do you mean? You're hanging out with plants and going to totem poles and becoming a comedy star without going to clubs. You do things different. Well, no. I mean, I started in the comedy club in San Francisco. And the comedy club was at home. And like punchline, coves, Sonnyvale, rooster tea feathers.

Oh, yeah. Tommy Tees. Tommy Tees a little bit. But mostly it was, yeah. Mostly punchline and Cobbs. Punchline was the home, home club. Yeah. I always felt like I thought I was going to be,

just a club comedian. I just thought this is what I, so where I started. This is my first, you know, many, many goals was just to be a host, feature headliner. Yeah. To just make rent, you know,

make some money, make doing comedy. And I just never broke into the national, like club, uh, touring. I don't know. I just, I don't know, I don't know why. It didn't have an appeal to you or just like, I just can never get it. Right. I never got the bookings. I went to JFL a number of times. I got, you know, reps for a while. I did the college circuit for a little bit. But I never could break into the regular club circuit. And it was really bizarre to me. Yeah. And there was like, yeah, sometimes I reach out or, or some bookers would reach out and it just never worked. Right.

And then now, you know, I can do, after that first special, I started to do theaters and it really was, I didn't know if I wanted it to, you know? I didn't know this is what I wanted to do. I know. I tell the story often behind your back. When I, we met at the Comedy Magic Club, kind of Hermosa.

And I think it was right before your first special was coming out. And you were really just kind of having a quiet moment. And you were like, I don't know. I'm not sure where I'm headed. I don't know if I need to like crank out material and run around and do this over and over again. You were feeling like it was a little bit of a hamster wheel. And it was a little repetitive. And you were having this moment of like, yeah, I'm not sure if this is really for me.

And then six months later, or maybe a year later, your Netflix special pops off and everybody's in love with you and I'm like, well, now he's screwed. He's going to have to do it again. But really, I always remember that because I got it.

I understood what you were saying. And you were just having this... Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think, you know, I think you spend the first so many... I always had some success, you know? Like, you keep moving forward because you got something. Yeah.

You know, you got one good joke. Yeah, because you're going. But I guess until it pops, it is still like, always this question of like, what, how many, how will this go? and what's the worst case scenario? Right. Yeah. Can I deal with the worst case? Am I just talking to myself?

Yeah. Am I my toast? Yeah. And just like how am I going to, in the end, am I going to make a living? Am I going to, is this going to be a problem? Like, is Brent going to be a problem in the whole life? How, you know, how, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You have those questions. So how long were you doing it by the time when Netflix special comes out? 22 years or something like that. 22, 23 years? Right. Persistence. Yeah.

I mean, like I said. Reluctant persistence. No, I love the craft. I always love doing it. You know, it just was a matter of, yeah, I don't know. For me, I just love the craft. I love doing it.

And as long as there was forward movement, I was like, there's progress. Then let's keep going. Right. Yeah. Yeah, and we all have those moments when, you know, when it's active, when things are active and you feel the movement. Yeah. And then you have times when you're not moving at all.

And it's, you know, you have those moments where your question, am I moving? Right. Am I sliding back? Like, what is, where am I? It's always unsure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Especially early on, you know. Yeah. Those are. But it is that thing. it's the that's why it really comes down to do you love it yes because there are so many reasons to not do it yeah yeah yeah called the rest of your life totally right right like making rent and doing all that stuff and leaving your friends and family because you have another show and there's so many reasons not to do it yeah but if you love it you don't really think about it you just keep going yeah right yeah yeah like

I'm on my break technically. You know, I just finished touring a couple months ago. And I'm still just doing sets, you know, at a bar just because that feels good to me. Right. You know? Yeah. There's a part of me that's like, you need to rest and just, like, unplug. But I just doing a set with no stakes at this point in my career, that's just a fun way to end the night for me now, you know?

Like, what, yeah, what's more fun than that? Yeah. Right? I mean, really, the whole world is set up to entertain you and keep you amused. Yeah. But none of it really has the impact of just doing a set. Right, right, right. I mean, you could just stay home. Home's great. Yeah. But yeah, to do what said, you got to get out. You got to leave. Mm-hmm. You know. Do you have pets? No, no pets. Don't get one. Yeah. It's even harder to leave.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the thing. When your dog's just like, you just got here. Right. What do you mean you're going out? Yeah, they're really, they keep you a hard time. I waited all day for you. I waited all day. And now I, your shoes are on. They, they know. You have a family and you have pets.

Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. They have a whole thing. It's hard to leave. It is hard to leave. Until they get annoying, then it's easy to leave. Yeah. No, it's definitely, uh, but I, the no-stakes sets are really pretty fantastic.

So how long can you be on a break? Like, what's your, do you have a set amount of time? I don't really know. I don't really know. I mean, just judging by what's, you know, the past. Like, I think I'm going to take a year before I, like, sell tickets to see anything. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. Maybe eight months to, like, do, like, a very rough, you know, what's that called? Like, work in progress type of show. Right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Allie's good with that. She always has good structure to that.

Yeah. Of like when she's like going to do the work in progress stuff. And then it's time to move on to the bigger clubs or whatever and then move back into the proper tour. She always seems to have that really well planned. Yeah. I try to take note of how she does hers. You know, I think it's good to go back and forth. I think it's good to absolutely start out in the low-stakes stuff and then, you know, work your way.

Start at the clubs when you're going to start selling. And then I think I'm next time around, I would like to do like, you know, a big run of just clubs and then theaters. And then maybe mix it up at some point again. Yeah, yeah. And then theaters again. And then tape it. Right. I think I want to do a run of clubs before the special, you know?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think that's helpful. Yeah. Why? Because when you're just like, like, when you're doing theaters, when you have it, like, the material is pretty, pretty done. and you're running into the theaters, you go, you, you, you, you kind of are in a, it's kind of fixed.

Right. You know what I mean? Once you go up and change a setting, you go to the club, bring that same energy and the same, like, confidence to a club. And now, now you're cooking with the whole other thing. You know, now you can, it's, you're like, It's not as easy. It's not as easy.

Or it's just different. Right. You know, but now, I mean, if you have the confidence, if you have a if a material is at the point where you have the same confidence you have a confidence of doing that in a theater

and you can bring that to a club you're a you're unstoppable yeah you're too big for this room right now you know yeah yeah yeah but it's fun to do that and then you feel free to like change it up then you know

yeah it's that sense of like feeling free and safe and you can just start I had that last weekend because I hadn't I hadn't done the theater set in a month. And we had the Netflix festival. And then I had other stuff going on and came back.

It was just about a month. And I was like, I'm not even, I'm not gonna sweat it. I'm just gonna be, I've been doing this set for a long time now. I'm just gonna trust that I'm gonna remember it. And right? And you know that feeling. And it was so great.

Yeah. Because there was that freedom. You weren't, I wasn't spitting it out the way that I was started to lock in. Right. Which is effective and it's, I'm doing the show. But all of a sudden, you're approaching it with some freshness. Yes, yes. And there was more space on stage.

Yeah. You could add a word, you could be a little more. Just free. Free. What, did you say you were in a club? No, it was a theater. Theater. Yeah, I mean.

But it was just, it's more space is the only way I can describe it. I had more space on stage. Like what I thought was going to be like panicked, like, will I remember all this? It was the opposite. It was just, oh yeah, it's all here. Right. It's all here and it's easy. It's like free and easy.

Yeah. It was really fun. I wish I could, but then you start to repeat it weekend after weekend. You know it's going to get a little calcified again. Right, right. The audience probably doesn't know, but you know. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

That's the thing. It was like, after I taped it, of course, I found new, I continued to tour and I found like slightly different ways of saying this. I don't know how much you can see it from the outside, but it feels different from the inside. Exactly. And the thing is for me, it's just like before you lock into the thing, after you have locked in and you change it to, you go to a different setting or you take some time off

and you come back to it. Yeah, yeah. There's just this, yeah, you can kind of become, you can find more organic ways of doing it. Right. And then you can find just slight ways of the, it changes, it helps me like figure out better performance when I do that. Right. Exactly. That's like a newer kind of area that I haven't worked on as much in my career.

Yeah. I'm more of a writer. Right. You know? Right. And doing the theaters, I feel like there's this new. And being in front of the audience of my own, there's just this new sense of like, there's this. There's more to this that I can like make better.

Yeah. the words. Yeah. Yeah. And it feels good. Yeah. So when you have time off, how do you spend your time just running from garden to garden?

A lot of it is just hanging out with friends and family. Do you cook? Yeah. You do? Yeah. I cook. I don't cook like, I don't make beautiful things. Just ugly food.

I make ugly nutrition. It's ugly nutritious. Like what? It's like everything that you need in a pot. But it's pretty seasoned, you know? Yeah. It's got a good balance of, you know, heat, acid, fat, all that, right? The quadrants.

But it's not beautiful. Right. You know, like, I went, I did a small tour in Asia earlier this year, and Japan was the last stop, and, you know, we did a little, just fun exploring for a little bit. But there's, you know, these beautiful meals that you can go eat, like these Kaiski, I think they call it. And they basically bring out all these like beautifully prepared dishes, seasonally using seasonal ingredients. And every dish comes within its own vessel and own little bowl plate, whatever. And they're all beautiful ceramics that you can also buy at the store.

You know, different, they also have all these beautiful places you can buy. Yeah. And so we brought those home. But it's like, I'm going to serve you like a bunch of beautiful vessels, but all the same, just bean soup in all of them. You know? Yeah. Gray beans soup. Yeah. Yeah. So I cook. Usually it's pretty utilitarian.

It sounds, it sounds, it sounds like the opposite of how you live, though. Like you have this aesthetic and when you perform and your Instagram has all this beautiful photography. Yeah. Yeah. And you're observing the silk of corn. And then you're making slots. slop. It's healthy slop.

I know, I'm sure it tastes great. I'm sure it tastes great. But it's, do you know what I mean? It's missing an element that you are always searching for. Yeah, I mean. Yeah. I think I just gave you a challenge. I just, yeah, I mean, for me,

a lot of the cooking I do is right after I come off the road. So I need this big pot of beans to just set the tone a little bit. We're home now. We're going to make up for what happened earlier. We're going to slow this down. Yeah, right, right. You know, um, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that's usually what I do. I do a big pot of, you know, lentils, beans, legumes, a bunch of vegetables from kale. Um. Is there meat in this? It can. You have meat. Oftentimes it doesn't. Yeah.

Um, and a lot of seasoning. Right. Like, like a, like a, like a, you know, a hefty. amount of like all kinds of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just start, you know, it's a similar, I just have like a process and the ingredients that can change up every now and then a little bit. Yeah.

So I make this big pot. And then I recently, I've been saving some of like the mere poix, you know, like the carrots and the celery and I cut it to tiny little bits and I'll pick, I'll just throw it into a bunch of vinegar and some herbs and salt. And then I'll put that as like a, like, like, like, like, the carrots. like a sauce or like a... Like a finish? Yeah, they throw that on top,

so it adds this freshness and crunch to the thing because everything else is pretty... You know, you don't even need teeth so much for most of the stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's just nice to have that... That's nice. That's a... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's nice. Yeah, I try to... You know, I try to... It's kind of freestyle. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I just try to figure out ways to make it more fun and yummy. Yeah. But it's mostly a nutritious, like...

foundation for the rest of the week. That's so great. I mean, it really is when you come off the road, even when you're trying to eat healthy, you know, everything's salted and butter. To really just get down to the bare minimum when you get home is, it's your body's literally screaming for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that sounds if, do you have that at home right now?

I do. Because this bread's going to be pretty kick-ass with that. Yeah, I'll do some sopping. Yeah. That's the word I love. I love, I love the word. I love the action. Sop it up.

Sop it up. Why don't you like pets? Just more responsibility. You know, leaving, just leaving. Yeah. Again, like, also kind of allergic. Oh, you are? Yeah.

To responsibility? Responsibility. Yeah. When I get to do less. I break out in hives. I can't breathe. I need epi. I need an epi pen.

Yeah, no pets. My girl's allergic to pets. Oh, that's good. Also. I mean, I'm allergic. She's very allergic. Oh, yeah. But yeah.

That's good. You're off the hook. Yeah. We have so much fur in the house. Yeah, that's another. I mean, she just doesn't like having that. I mean, even if she wasn't allergic, I think just the soul other persons, other things. thing on you.

Right. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Our apartment is supposed to be pet-friendly, and so people have pets. And, you know, when we first moved in, our carpet was disgusting. I don't know why the landlord was like, yeah, it's fine. Right.

Like, they had it washed professionally, but there was, like, hair baked into the carpet. So, like, the more you treat it, the more it's just like cooking. Yeah. Yeah, you're just cooking. You're just sitting it. Jeez. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a lot. It is a lot. It's like another person. It's actually more, it demands more attention than another person. Yeah. I mean, it's a lot. It's harder to like negotiate. Mm-hmm.

Right? Because they don't really talk to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Our cat is trying to talk to us now. It's an old cat.

15 years? 20 years? And, yeah, he's on his last lap. 20 years. He just can't really see. And it doesn't really clean himself much. Can't jump. His eyes are kind of a little back in his head.

And he just walks around and just meowing. I don't know. what he's asking. I think he's asking like somebody wrap this up. Yeah. And he's great. Like when you come near him, like I think he can't see. Because when he's not really, he's meowing, meowing, but then when he gets close to you, the purr is so loud.

It's just, like it's motoring. And I think it's, you know, he didn't like anybody my wife for years. But now he likes anybody that will be around. It's kind of sweet, but it's also, uh, It's a lot. It's why we're not doing the podcast there. There'd just be meowing nonstop. Yeah.

But it's purring more than usual? Yeah, when you get close. Yeah. But he's doing weird shit. Like he'll just like nap like in a weird part of the hallway. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just not normal things.

It's like having a real old person in the house. Right. You know. Yeah. That's. But. even as weird as it's getting and he's got those weird sunken eyes much prefer it than a goat. Yeah.

The goat is like evil. You've seen, what was that movie? Witch? Yeah. You've seen which? Yeah. There's a goat in there. There is a goat in there.

The goat has a name. It does? Well, it's like something. Yeah, like some ancient name. I thought it was like, do you remember which? I thought it was like, what's the name of that goat? Yeah, a goat is like a furry snake. A goat is like a furry snake.

Yeah, it's right. Exactly. Black Phillip. Black Phillip. Black Phillip. Black Phillip. Yeah. Wow. I don't remember that. It is creepy.

Do you like going to the movies? I do. Are you into the... I just don't go. I know. I do like going and I want to go, but I haven't been in a long time. I know. After I saw, I was at Sirius XM today and the Tom Hanks was around and all the toy story people, because there's a fifth toy story out now.

And I was driving home, I was like, well, this is kind of like a summer of movies. We've got the Odyssey with the new Nolan, Matt Damon thing. And then we got the Toy Story. And then you got these new like obsession and back room, like these YouTubers that are making films that are blowing up. It's like for the first time it feels like it's kind of like a summer of some real film stuff happening. There's He-Man. There is. That came out.

That's post. Masters of the universe. Wait, what's this YouTube thing? There's two YouTube directors. They're like 20 years old each. And they started off on YouTube, like making stuff. And they've both broken through with big hits. They're like having a huge box office off obsession.

And backroom is the name of it. And backroom, which was like this social media kind of thing about backrooms of stores and things. and he made it into a film and like they're real filmmakers. It's amazing. Yeah, it's like kind of a cool like resurgence of independent film kind of like finding its footing, you know?

That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty good. I would like, I didn't know. Yeah, but you know, as enthusiastically as I'm talking about it all, I'll be home tonight. I would like to go though. It would be nice.

I like, I mean, do you have like a little, like a little, projector at home? No. We have a little projector. It's like it looks big because you're close to it.

It's kind of like being at a movie but it's not. What do you play on it? You can play whatever you want. On a projector? Yeah, you can stream, you know. Oh, it's just your TV is a projector thing?

Is the quality better? It's good. It's pretty good quality. I mean, nowadays it just depends on what you want, how much you want to spend, but you can get like a really beautiful

picture a giant thing on your wall. Oh, nice. And if you get the screens, you can actually see it during the daytime, too, because they have, like, special screens that cut out ambient lighting. But it's, it's cool. I mean, it's cool to have that big, a big image like that in your house. Yeah. But it's still different than watching it in the theater.

Well, because it's missing the other people. Yeah, and you can pause at any time. There's just no commitment. Right, exactly. You can look at your phone, even though you say you're not going to. Yeah. bathroom break. It's just, you know.

The stop and go of the home watching experience, really, it just, it changed, I don't know. And the ability to just stop any, yeah, and just pick anything else, you can just switch it up. Yeah. It's too much. I know. That really, you're forced to watch the whole thing when you're in that theater, and it is so much better. Yeah, it's like a bus about to leave. You got to catch that bus.

Right. You know, and you're going to be on the bus for two hours. Yeah. That's it, you know. I know. I'm uh yeah I think it's it's definitely better I mean even my daughter over there we watched Superman last year last summer and uh I think it was the first time I watched her watch a movie without a phone in her hand wow it was in a theater yeah we all had to do it it was the first time I ever saw it

I didn't know she was capable oh it's great it's great it's fantastic that's lovely do you ever want to make a film No, not really. Yeah. I mean, I haven't, I don't know, I don't have that kind of aspiration. Yeah. Yeah. Stand up is the thing.

Stand up as a thing for me. That's good. Yeah, maybe eventually I'll do something more like science or nature related. Maybe like a nature documentary or something like that. That would be fun. Goats. About goats. Just a whole documentary on evil animals.

On all evil animals. Pigeons. New York. Scary. Yeah. Do you spend time in New York? I have. I live there for six years.

I like being there. I like going there. Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah. But L.A. is your spot. L.A. is my spot. It's, I kind of want to leave, but I don't know where to go.

I don't know what to go. I don't, you know. Yeah. What part makes you want to leave? I kind of want to be. a little bit more north. I kind of want to be with more trees. Right.

I kind of want more moisture and cleaner air. Right. You know, I pay attention to the air quality when we're out here, like, every day. Yeah. I know. It's an illusion out here. It looks like from the window, it should be great. Yeah, yeah.

Get out and it, or everything around is just covered and sutt. Right. Yeah, I just, it's a thing. It's, you know. I remember when I got off the plane, or when I, you know, when I started coming out LA or I'm from New York. Yeah. When I first started coming out here, I was like, oh, this is nice, it's cool.

But when I landed in Newark and my wife and I, like, walked out of Newark Airport and were like, oh, this feels like really great air. And it was like, holy, Newark is better air than L.A. You're like, yeah, something's wrong out there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Newark.

Ah, Newark. Yeah. Clear open spaces. Yeah. Up north would be good. Yeah. I don't know. It'd be fun and it'd be fun to live in the Bay or even Vancouver,

Portland. Yeah. I don't know. I just like the Pacific Northwest. I like Redwoods. Yeah. It is nice. You know.

Well, if anyone can do it, you can do it. You live your life differently. Maybe, we'll see. Yeah, I can see you doing it. Yeah, maybe I'll just move up there, bake bread, cook more than beans, hang out with trees. I would really like you, your assignment after this podcast, is just make something that looks good to eat.

Yeah. It obviously seems like it is. Yeah, make it a little nicer. Yeah, okay. Send me a picture of this bread with whatever you're eating. Okay. I would like to see that. Thank you, Tom.

Appreciate it. I'll send you my sopping. Your special's fantastic. Thank you. And enjoy your time off. Appreciate it. We'll try. Yeah.

Anything else we can tell the people? This is your caterpillar phase. Yeah, this is caterpillar phase, man. Right. Still eating the leaves. have yet to get to the cocoon and the goop before the butterfly. But yeah, nothing. I'm just, I'm just, yeah, check out the special on Netflix.

There's purple, the more recent one. And then there's an older one, sweet and juicy. Yeah. They're both great. Yeah, well, I check that out for now. Yeah. All right, cool. And then when you get back and you start going to tour, I'm back.

Okay. And I'll give you my bread. All right. And we'll see whose was better. Thanks, though. All right, thanks, Jake. We got it, kids.