Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 343 - Jeff Arcuri

Episode Date: September 1, 2026

Jeff Arcuri joins Tom Papa to talk about his Netflix special Nice to Meet You, the strange luck behind great crowd work, and the Comedy Cellar experiences that helped him trust his comedy. They get into rough tapings, online success, creative anxiety, and why a new joke landing still beats everything else. Jeff's Netflix special NICE TO MEET YOU is out now. Our thanks to: Monarch! Start a free trial, and get 50% off your first year of Monarch Core Tier with code PAPA at monarch.com ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Cold open 01:00 Jeff Arcuri joins Tom 01:30 How comedians give compliments 03:23 Making crowd work work on camera 07:20 Five unpredictable special tapings 12:37 Tom's first special 14:33 Learning to edit comedy clips 21:04 Giving every clip an arc 24:42 Keeping crowd work authentic 28:06 Success, guilt and adapting 32:19 The Cellar gave Jeff confidence 38:26 Performing high or drunk 41:04 Moving seamlessly into material 43:04 What changes after a hit special 48:38 New York versus Los Angeles 50:35 Bread and sourdough cookies Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did it affect how you worked on stage because you were clip conscious? No, that is one thing that I hated to see at the clubs that I was performing in. Yeah. Is I'd see comics go up performing it and do that where I'm like, I'll never do this. I'll never go, like, end a punchline like, that's the, it's the bread for you. Anyways. So what's going on with you two over here? I can't do this like, this whole like, all right, so.

Where we got? You know, that makes me throw up. It's breaking bread. This is pretty great. I feel like our relationship is really moving quickly. Yeah, it's great, man. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We just met, really. Yep. Last week, was it? Was it last week? Yeah, I think this is a weekly podcast we have now. Yeah. Yeah, we got to change the title and everything. Yeah, and then that was, well, you were in New York.

Yeah. I was, and we did remote with my radio show. Which is oddly enough, you were in L.A., I was in New York. Yeah. And then we just swapped. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, in New York for a second and then back. And yeah, thanks for being here. Yeah, of course. This is great. And I have to say, when I told people that you were on the show, some other comic friends, nothing but positive reviews. Love that. Yeah.

That's so nice. Yeah. We live in a constant fear of like, do people like us? So it's nice to, you know what I mean? Even worse, when you like somebody and you're like, does everybody else like them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a comic tell me last night He goes

Oh by the way Congrats on the special Fuck off And I was like That was the best compliment From a comedian you can get It's not great special It was a good job

It's just fuck you Like you ever had to follow A comic and they just murdered And you're just like You piece of shit Exactly That felt really good So much better than just a fake

Way to go I have You know what I had My barber I met in New York he cuts Andrew Schultz's hair and he's like actually do Andrew Schultz you know that come I go yeah yeah and then my

special came out and I got a haircut two days later and he goes I did not finish it and I go all right man hey so just number one on the side he didn't need to do he just goes I have not finished it yet I started it did not finish

brutal but congratulations and I go all right yeah you just you could be like having had a chance lie a little bit Well that's the hard part too When people are like Hey I saw your special And you're like thanks a lot

Yeah And they're like they didn't say Oh yeah Yeah Or honestly I've said to comics I don't watch a lot of specials Just because there's so many reasons Not to as a comedian

Yeah But I was just like I've said hey congrats on the special I haven't seen it yet But congrats I would appreciate that As opposed to somebody going Hey great special

It really was good And then I've wanted to Just out of the fear That people would do it to me You just be like, all right, name one joke. Right. And then be like, oh, when you said, what do you do for work? Yeah, nice and safe.

Yeah. I just felt self-conscious about the sty on my eye, so I'm going to give you a break. Oh, did I look at it? Yeah, I think you clocked it. My mouth was watering. I think that's what you noticed. I'm going to shoot my special in October. Oh, I didn't ask.

No. I'm joking. I'm in October. Thank you for laughing. I feel like a day. Nice. Where you doing it? There are a couple moments in my show on tour where I break out and do a little crowd work just to, it's just, I think it resets the set.

And it's always really fun stuff to get. Yeah. And it's relevant to where I'm going. And it was only from watching your special that I thought, I just assumed, well, I got to cut that part out when I get to taping. And watching you, you're so good

at and it's so natural. And for the first time, it felt like you don't have to be in the room for the crowdwork to make, have impact. Right on. A lot of times I've seen like stuff and you're like, oh, that was probably funny when you were there. Yeah. But you, I don't,

is it because you're so good at it? Or do you think that times have changed and people you know what I mean? So I'm thinking, I'll just leave it in. I'll just do it. And if it's cool, I'll keep it. That's kind of funny because I remember seeing,

the first time I saw it in a special was actually Stavis. Stavis, he had one in a theater where he kind of like ripped on a guy. And you can tell it was probably like, oh, wow, that's funny. We should keep that in after the fact because it was genuinely funny. And I think that there are moments like that. There is a lot of, like, we've all been to shows where there's, there's hack jokes and hack crowdwork.

that you go, okay, the room's laughing because it's live. Yeah. That's why it's so funny right now is because it's live. He thought of that. These two guys that are sitting next to each other, they might be gay, you know? Yeah. And there's like a funny moment in that because it's real. But then you watch it later on, you're like, I've seen that 100 times.

That's not been special. So I do think there is like a barrier to break when it comes to like special. I got pretty damn lucky. The only thing I had planned was like talking to the guys in the middle because I was try and find a guy in the beginning that's maybe half into it. Yeah. Like that isn't,

there's usually a woman going, yeah, it's him. I love that. Yeah. That's so funny. So I try and find him, and then I just, I threw the show,

just make him become the hero of the show. The guy that wasn't, didn't want to even be there, he's now the focal point. And I have a way of doing that with any show. I could pick any guy and do that, pick him out and then move on.

Yeah. But with my, what happened with like, there was like a lady that used cement paste instead of lube by accident. I remember in that moment I remember distinctly going

Oh hell yeah This is perfect It's so unique Yeah So I got lucky with that But I also I taped five shows Yeah And we ended up using

90% of one of the shows In Phoenix Yeah And the rest of them I was trying to dip into the crowd work And it wasn't really working So I genuinely do think I got Kind of lucky with that show

Really Yeah and I think that if there was There was crowd work They kept in that I'm like Yeah get this out of there Like oh we just figured We show you all of it And I'm like no that was

Not information I asked that this guy at information, he responded. I moved into my material. Unless it was catapulting my joke or unless it was, like, in some way helping the joke, take it out. It's more of... It's so funny when you say it because I just assume, because you're so good at it, like, of course, you got there was stuff in all those shows.

There was. There was some that I didn't end up using that were, like, pretty good. Yeah. But it wasn't, like, sometimes the intro to me talking. Like, there was guys. wearing Hawaiian shirts with my faces all over them at the special tapings. So I talked to them for like three, four minutes. Right.

We had a fun interaction, but it wouldn't have been worth all four minutes to include that last 20 seconds. Right. So I'm like, just get rid of all of it. Let's just go with the bangers. You know, we have a potential of making like an outtakes cut up because paid so much money for all that footage that if we can get something else out of it, great. Yeah, five's a lot.

It was too many. Yeah. Why did you decide to do five? Money. You know, we did the two for two for the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the deal with Netflix where they give you a flat rate and then you get it back.

So you lose money on it. Right. Especially with how many cameras I had and shit. Yeah. So we did five because we initially wanted three. Like let's put a three up. And we sold, they're like, hey, let's do four. Right.

Hey, why not? We already have the camera crew there. Yeah. And then they go, well, we can sell five on a third. We can do a Thursday show. Right. And they go, great. And they're like, we won't do recording.

We'll just do that as a run through. And I go, no. Yeah, we're there. Record it. Because that'll be the show we end up using. Yeah. And ended up being awful. Oh, it did?

It was bad. We all fucked up. Like, everybody fucked up a little bit to make one. Yeah. Yeah. Like, we forgot to tell them to use the bathroom before I got up. Oh, God. Until right before I got up.

Oh, by the way, use the bathroom. Oh, no. Oh, actually, do not go to the bathroom. Oh, no. Ten minutes in my set, just exodus. Everybody's thinking about it. I remember stopping the show and going, well, we're not using this one, guys. And that got enough pop that I had fun the rest of the show.

But I kept getting lost with the stool. I'm sorry, this fully round stage. I would be like, this guy knows what I'm talking about. I'm like, where the fuck? Oh, where was he? Right, right. So I was like, genuinely, it was funny, but the third time it happens, people are like, all right, clock in, buddy.

Yeah, yeah. So I ended up, we ended up putting like a piece of gaff tape on the stool as my 12 o'clock. So then whenever I talk to somebody, I'm like, he's at three, she's at six. Yeah, because you never perform in the round like that. No. And I was freaking out. When I got the tape back, I'm like, I don't think I want to use, I think I might retape it at the cellar. Like the classic stage small room

Oh no, it was so good It ended up working great It really, yeah, it did Just because it just set that thing of like And the way you started the special too Of You're just kind of coming cold And you're disciplining somebody

Yeah, and I that was It was so great The producer and I can only shout on I've shot him on like every pod I have Jordan Levy Yeah Matt Schuller with the producers of it And he basically directed it

And he sent me the V1 And the first draft and it was included that clip, that intro. Yeah. And my agent and manager saw it, and they're like, take that out. He's not going to be, he's not going to like looking

like he's angry at somebody to start his special, I promise you, blah, blah, blah. So they took it out and never told me about it. I'm going through all their cold opens, and it was a lot of lame, just very basic crowd work. Like, someone's like, hey, what's the gayest thing you ever done? And I'm like, I don't know, what hotel are you staying at?

You know, like, moving on. Yeah. And it was like, boom, special. And I'm like, that's garbage. I'm not starting the special. way. And then like a month goes by, they keep sending me these cold cuts, huh? And, Fred. Fred. We got through the pee-wee soys. Anytime picnics come up in any way. And then Jordan sent me a long email. And he's like, hey, man, this is the original. This is what I

wanted. And your team held it from you. No. And I go, let me see it. And I fucking loved it. Wow. And I was funny because I'm like, they were protecting me. I appreciated everybody in that moment. I go, thank you for being nice. and protecting me, but also don't shelter me. It makes me fearful of what else you hide. Yeah. Where I don't, you know, but he was like, I promise you, it doesn't make you look bad. And it was real, because I was angry.

I was my, it was my, it was the Thursday job. It didn't come off as like, it didn't come off pudding though. And that's relieving for me. Like you were in charge. That's how I felt. You ever had like a moment where you're on a plane, you're like, man, I was a dick back there. Yeah. It's nice to know that I wasn't.

Yeah. I thought I was being a big asshole with that guy. Yeah. He ended up getting, like, ripped out of that venue. I had no idea. Oh, he for real got dragged out? Yeah, so apparently he thought I said I wanted to kill his wife or something. Oh, geez.

Yeah, I said, they're going to kill you. I don't care. Whatever I said. And then he was like, he's going to kill my wife. Don't he's going to kill my wife and starts fighting security. I didn't hear any of this. Whoa. They were like straight up like chloroform.

Get them out of that. Oh, my God. Yeah, they got him out. I had no clue. And you have no clue. And was that from a show that worked? No, that was the Thursday. I think, no, that was either Thursday or one of the other shows.

I think it was the Thursday show where I was like, I had a shutdown of heckler, people were getting up, people were wasted by the time we started. Like, there was a lot of variables that were like... Man, that must have been a weird night back in the hotel. You know what's funny? Typically, like, if I have a show and one joke doesn't land and I do like, all right, well, that one didn't work.

And then people still laugh at that and I move on. I'll be in my hotel room for three hours. I'm like, I can't believe I did that joke. That night I did that show and I knew I wasn't going to take any of it. Yeah. I felt fine. You did. Honestly, felt fine.

Because I'm like, I needed that for tomorrow. I needed to get this out of my system, me getting lost, me figuring out, do I want a stool or do I want to go in raw? Like, all those things I needed to do and go through. Right. And I did it all in the first show. And then I was just like- But you didn't know going in that it was going to be such an experiment.

No. You thought I'm taping tonight, baby. Yeah. No, I went in like, let's do this. Yeah. But I also, like, everyone at my team was like, you got four more. Right. And I was like, you're right.

There's no rush. And I got off. And everyone. there was that, you were a good off and people that are there with you are just like, hey, like, they're checking your temperature before they can be like, great show. They want to make sure you are okay with it. I've seen that, and it's also validating to see other comics. Almost every special I've done, almost, definitely the last two.

How many have you done? Five. Damn. What was the first, if you don't mind me asking, what was the first one? Where did you tape it? When was it? Live from New York at, um, at the, I think it was called the Bowery Theater.

It's the Hudson Theater. Hudson Theater. It's not there anymore. Okay. And what did you do? It was, yeah. I know who, what's his name? Daniel Glover, Childish Gambino.

Donald Glover. Donald Glover. You said Danny Glover's full name. Man. Donald Glover and I, the producer, was doing both of them, so we split the night. Oh. And he did his stand-up.

I think it was the only one he did. Whoa, wait, that was his special. I remember watching that one. That was him, like, in the cab on the way, talking to the cab about going to shoot a special. Right. That was the same night you did. Same night I did mine live from New York.

And it was... And we didn't even see each other. It was just our names were on the... Isn't that weird? Yeah, exactly. How many times do you've been in the same city as another comic at a different club? Yeah. We should, but...

It'll never happen. No, no, no. I want to sleep. But invariably, the show that I think, oh, for sure, that's the one we're going to use, everyone else says it's the other one. Really? Yeah. That's interesting.

All the time. Huh. I know. And that was, so that was the Ballery, the Hudson Theater. Hudson Theater. Yeah. And that was through, where did that land? Comedy Central?

That was Comedy Central. Yeah. And that's, now you don't have access to that special, or do you? I think we do. You do? Okay. Yeah. Or the people that do my social media do.

Oh, I got you. Someone's crafty. That's my next thing I want to do so bad. It's just offload all that. Yeah. I'm still editing clips. I'm still like posting and I'm like, what hashtags do I do today? Like I just.

Yeah, offload it. I know. I need to. But you've, all right, let me ask. That's a good question. What you're saying is offload is. like you don't have to physically do all of your social media. And I was so bad at it and so slow.

And it would take me every time there'd be, I'd misspell stuff or like not tag the right person. It was such a thing that I had to give it to a company to like, please, you guys post this. And I'll pay you whatever you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you built your career off of it. Exactly.

So that's the fear. Yeah, like, do you think someone else, do you think the public would know if it shifted? So I... And what made you so good? At the editing? At the, yeah, the social media game.

Oh, the game itself. So I started editing myself because I remember I paid a guy to make me like five clips, like 200 bucks or something like that. Yeah. And he came back with the clips and he was like, there's probably spelling errors,

let me know. And I'm like, what? No, look again. Let me know. Send it. And I went back. I'm like, there's errors. Here's nine errors in this 45 second clip,

and I send it back, and he's like, oh, I'll work on these, getting back to you in a couple days. I'm like, he's not smarter than me. Yeah. You know what I mean? He's a friend of mine. I know him very well,

but I'm like, he's not smarter than me. I can do this, and I can spell it right. Let me get a shot. And it took me like 18 hours of work to make my first minute clip, figuring out I'd never done Adobe or anything like that. And then I got obsessive about it where I actually enjoyed it. Uh-huh.

And I was like having fun cutting and learning and watching YouTube videos on it and stuff. And so I learned. And so I learned how to do that first, before I even made social media accounts. I just learned how to edit the videos because I didn't want to create an account and be like, hey, guys, it's me, Jeff. And then I'll see you in a few months. Right, yeah. So I ended up learning how to do that.

I created my social media accounts. And then I decided I'm like, I'm going to do the same post to every social media account at the same time, the same day every week. So I put a Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and I put up on my bio, I'll have a new clip these days at this time. So it's like a TV station. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, sorry.

And did people respond to that? Did like the scheduling of it? Yeah. People, I remember the first time I didn't post like a month in. And I had like gained like probably like 40,000 followers in like a month. Whoa. From zero to like that. Yeah.

Just on real. It's just posting three times a week. And I remember the first time I had missed because of a time change. I was like noon. And they're like, where the fuck is the clip? And I'm like, this is something. Something's working with this. Like people are like at work on a Monday and they go, it's 11.

Oh shit. He should have a clip up right now. And they can go to my page and look at it. So I looked at it like a business. Yeah. I want to have people coming to my page. That's wild. I wouldn't think that it was appointment viewing.

No, and I think that it is for 99% of the people, it is just the natural viewership. Yeah. But for the some people, they looked forward to those clips. Even if it's not 11 a.m., they'd look forward to Mondays is when Jeff posts or Wednesdays is whatever it is. And I just did that consistently and was throwing shit out the wall. And I think I've only ever deleted it like two clips because people were like, why would you post this? And I'm like, you're right. And I deleted it.

But the rest of it. I'm like, I could just throw shit at the wall. It doesn't really matter. Uh-huh. You were never that precious with it. I, yeah. Yeah. Every clip.

Which is so smart. Every clip I'm very, I'm very precious. I think a lot of comics have a fear of success. And a lot of comics will make a video to 80% of their ability. So that if it fails, they can be like, well, I didn't give it all. Uh-huh. I think there's a lot of my friends at least I've talked to about that where they're like, yeah, sometimes I just kind of feel like I'm giving myself that

room to be like I didn't do it the right way so that's why it's not popping off it's not me as a comedian it's my captioning you know there's a cope with that right but I was a particular down to like the milliseconds of when to cut when to like end it when to start it oh so when you're saying you just threw shit at the wall you're not saying clip wise I was I was throwing a lot of clips up but I was spending hours on each one but okay yeah and I still do and my problem is is now is I'll have somebody send me what they think I want based on what I've been editing. And I'm just such a, I'm such a perfectionist with it that I'm like, wrong, wrong, wrong. No, I need this. I need that. I need this. And then I've gone, I've probably gone through like three or four guys I've tried to have

edit. Yeah. And they're just like, I don't think I can do what you need me to do. And I'm like, I get it. I don't, I don't, I don't want you to do it unless like, I want, what I really want is to give somebody equity. Like, I'll give you half my social media money if you just do it all. Right. I'll give you all my YouTube. If you decide to go in. into my archive and make compilations or some shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go do it if you want to do it. I just want to time now.

And I'm like, now that I'm, the special's done, there's this, like, fire under my ass to build the hour back up. Right. You know, because I'm doing some material that I didn't use in the special, but then, you know, supplemental. But there's this, like, I need to write more now. And I edit less. And edit less, right.

Yeah. What, uh, it's so funny. John, isn't it funny? Like, we have a lot of great comedians in here. But we just had. We had another comic who was not of the generation of coming up. Like, he's, you know, he's older. And the way he talks about it, it's like, it's like unknowable.

It's like, this, I got to do the clips. Like, everyone's like, I got to do the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just even like the little things that you're talking about, it wouldn't even enter his brain. Sure. You know what I mean? It's such a thing.

There is, dude, there's all, one of my cringiest mornings is when I hear, like, comics talking about like the goddamn algorithms fucking me you know. God damn. It's like you didn't even know that word until two years ago and now it's fucking you. You know? Like I've had people that were telling me advice. They're like, hey, if you misspell one word every nine seconds, it creates engagement because people auto correct you.

And I go, so you think that's, people are going to go to your page bill, you spelled something wrong. And when are you coming to Philly? No one's doing that. Like don't lessen your point. products for the sake of maybe more views. I don't like baiting. I don't like when people show like a crazy moment of the joke in the beginning.

Right. And then you have to get to it later on. And there's actual recording of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These preview jokes. I don't like that. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot of it that I'm like, just stick to what's funny and put it up. How much of it, how much of the crowd worked? Like you're, it sounds like you're editing a lot. Yeah. But it seems like there's such little caps. like in the moment. Yeah. I don't see cuts.

Oh, sure. I try and cut as little as possible because I found that my audience is not as Gen Z. My audience is Gen X to millennia, older millennials. So I've noticed that our like long form and uninterrupted long form

is a lot more palatable for people my age. Right. It is for the, when they go, what do you do? And they cut out that one and a half second between a real conversation. And I'm like,

I can't. can't. It makes me nauseous to try and consume this. Right. Yeah. You ever see the captions with like one word at a time? My wife listens to podcasts and interviews on two and a half time. It's just, and I'm like, how are you doing? Is that crazy? Cooking and looking at the TV at the same time. I know. I know. I got my friend's car and she had her podcast done and it was like three times speed. I'm like, oh, you're crazy. I can't. How does your brain digest that? I also, I can't do voice notes. If you got,

You can be getting voice notes from people? Yes. I can't. Yeah. You're going to make me listen to your pauses? This is a text. But you're making me, and they goes, I don't know. So I'm like, I shouldn't hear this.

What the hell is this? What was an early discovery? Like, as you were putting clips up and seeing what was working, was there something that like kind of clicked for you like, oh. now I'm I've got my my voice my way of cutting or my way of posting or is it just purely your shit was funny I would say I didn't get this advice directly from Andrew Schultz but it's it is something that I was doing and then once I heard this advice through another second party I really started focusing on it which was every clip should have a purpose or an arc of

look at this guy's shirt this is dumb and hell whatever and then you find out that's the coolest shirt whatever it is like some kind of arc whatever it may be um to end it. Because one thing I've noticed is it's right. There's a lot of clips that'll just be like, anyways, and I'm just like, watch again. No. Right.

You know, there's a lot of like non-endings or like, I will oftentimes end on the biggest one. Even if there's a tag after that, that's pretty funny. Right. I'll end on the one that people go, oh, it's all, fuck, I guess I'll see that again. Right, right, right. So I guess just editing it like not trying to catch them,

but just making it go, like, when I look at clips, what would I want to watch? Right. I'd want to start with the reason why I'm watching. it is not going to be a lot of preamble. It's just going to be like, let's get to the meat of it. Get into it. And then the ending, just being something that I like, oh, that was a fun overall, like it came back to square one, a full circle moment, whatever it may be. I don't know. I think less is more. I think less cuts, fewer words on screen at a time.

I never go more than two lines of text at a time. Like, I figured all this stuff over time. Yeah. And now I have my template set. Yeah. So now I'm scared to touch that. And somebody will send me a thing and I go, that's not the font I use. That's not what I use. I don't want to fuck this up. Yeah, yeah. And I just started collaborating with Netflix as they cut the jokes up and they use way more words, smaller font, all the shit. It's got to drive you crazy. I was like, but I'll collab. Both of them went viral.

Like, both of them got like millions of views. Oh, they did. Yeah, and I'm like, it's the first time where I'm like, all right, I'm not some god at editing. Right. Or my editing is what's propelling it is, it's the people are responding to the humor, the material. Yeah. Did it affect how you worked on? stage because you you were clip conscious? No. No. That is one thing that I, I hated to see at

the clubs that I was performing in. Yeah. I'd see comics go up before me and do that where I'm like, I'll never do this. I'll never go like end a punchline like, that's, that's the, uh, it's the bread for you. Anyways. So what's going on with you two over here? I don't, uh, I can't do this like, this whole like, all right. So where we got? You know, that makes me throw up. So when I'm in the moment and I see a guy, like, I literally, one of my favorite moments was there was a dude sitting at the front role of the comedy seller McDougal.

Alone, came alone, and he had a fucking recorder, like a flute sticking out of his jacket, quarter inch. And I was just on stage and I go, what is that? Is that a flute? And then it was one of my favorite clips where he plays, like, Lord of the Rings and shit. And I'm like, you're going to find your girl, she'll hear the song, man. And that was not me going, all right, who's got to.

a fucking flutin. Right. Let me check your pockets. It's just in the moment. And what I think is the, what I think is the, like the, the, the, the benefit I have or the advantage I have as a New York comic and the comedy seller is, I've gone up 22 times in a night before. Yeah.

I've gone up, I'd say on average, three to four times a night. Yeah. So when I'm going up 20 times a week, and I get two clips out of that. Right. Out of my 20. That's a 10% success rate, but that's pretty damn good. Yeah. I put now I have two clips for that week.

So what people are not seeing is the fact that I'm on stage almost every night. Yeah. I'm recording everything. Right. And there are a lot of shows I don't do any crowd word at all. Yeah. Yeah. No, when I saw you with the comedy seller, and that was the first time I was in the room with you.

And I was really surprised because it was very little crowdwork. You were just, you were like talking to them because you were just open. But it was a lot of material. Yeah. Which I really loved. I think I told you that. Appreciate that. Yeah.

All that stuff about, about your wife kind of. of understand like a fish out of water in New York. Yes. So funny. It's been fun to write because it keeps happening. It's so funny. It's great. It's such a deep well.

Yeah, it is. The only thing I will say is there is like a moment now in my set where I'm like, all my new shit is is about my wife because I've been just hanging out. There are all this time like all this. And I'm like, there is like a minute 12 at the cellar where I'm like, it's been a lot of wife's talk. And then I'll just be like, you guys like nipples? Like I don't know what to talk about now.

I've literally been talking about my wife, wife, wife, wife, wife. and then I have a big chunk about nipples. Unrelated to her completely. Just to get out of there. Just to get out of like he only talked about his wife. Yeah. Because sometimes I'm on a 1 a.m. show. And when you start a 1 a.m. show and you're like,

I'm still learning to be a husband, folks. People are like, get the fuck out of here. I want to talk about holes. Right. It's all, anyone after 1 a.m. Yes. We've all, we've done the graveyard at the cellar. Oh, God.

Yeah. It's already fuqua singing. Right. And then you go up and you got to just. Yeah. I'm talking about holes, man. Oh, man. It really is, it's such a thing, it's such a human nature thing, I think.

That people assumed that people assume that people, when people are really, when people assume that when other people have success doing something that you could be doing, they kind of downplay it like, well, there's got to be another reason. why he's being successful with this, because I do it too, but it really, the way you're talking, it's very obvious that it means a lot to you, and it's, you work very hard at it. Thank you. And it's another, it's another just comedy muscle.

Yeah. It's just another comedy muscle. So I would argue more people have seen me digitally. No one would argue that. More people have seen me digitally than in person. Sure. So I don't think there's any high horse of like, The live show is better.

We all know that. But you can't pretend like more eyes aren't on the internet and you need to, you know, adjust your audience. Yeah. You have this amazing potential audience. The fact that we can, I mean,

you walk into rooms. Like my goal was never to be performing for my audience. At no point was I like, I want to be a superstar comedian. My goal was to just work the club circuit. Right. Was to just go into a club

that the audience goes like a comedy club on state where they go, we just know they're going to show up, gonna give us good comics, so we're gonna sell this place out every night. Right, right. And that's what comedy was when I was coming up, was like, just the clubs would, Friday, Saturdays were electric. You want to be around that area.

I never thought I'd be performed for people that are like quoting me. Right. You know? And social media gave me that. That would have otherwise probably taken me another 10 to 15 years. Yeah. You know? No, absolutely.

Absolutely. It's, uh, it really is fascinating. I mean, there's, there's, also, there are bad versions of all kinds of comedy. Yes. So, like, I saw someone that kind of had internet success and off of a lot of crowdwork clips. And I don't even, they're not that big, but they were enough where they were filling up rooms at comedy club level. And, yeah, hacky. Like, not good.

You know, there's those versions, too. And I was never worried about, like, my thing was not, like, scaling up was never my, like, when we started working with agents and managers, I didn't want to talk to anybody that was like theaters. I want to talk to someone who's like, let's go slow. That's what I wanted. And I got both people. Maybe as your manager are very like, we know. You don't want to, you don't want to like shoot faster than you already are. Yeah. Up. Right. Yeah. I'm already skipping a few rungs I'm aware of that I don't want to, even though it's like every therapist will tell me. He's like, because I'm like, I don't know why. These people should show up. They're paying money. I get money at the end of this. And I freak out about it every week.

And he has to remind me, he's like, so it didn't take you. 15 years of blood, sweat, and tears, and sleeping in a basement with rats, and having seven roommates. And I'm like, all right, all right, all right. I deserve it. I went through the shit. Yeah. But, you know, you still feel guilt because I have friends that still, you know, have five roommates or whatever that are just as funny, in my opinion. Right, right, right.

Yeah, but, you know, there's a lot of different elements to it. There's a lot of bad, though. There's a lot of bad crowdwork, just in the same sense of, I used to have a comeback to that. Like, oh, crowdwork, and I'd be like, cool, man. What's the name of your podcast? That's your version of what I'm doing. Right. You're just doing another thing outside of pure stand-up.

That's right, exactly. That's what I meant by a different comedy muscle. You're just, you know, and in the old days, it would be like you get a sitcom and be funny that way, right? Or you do a ton of Tonight Shows and you're funny that way. And the world's now offered, oh, take, get clips and use social media. That would be funny that way. Yeah. I feel like I did get over.

It's hard to not, it's, you know, when you watch people who don't adapt to it and just kind of like, oh, yeah, it's really just because they don't want to have to do something else. I don't want it. I was that guy. Prior to August 2022, I, I rested on the, oh, I don't do that stuff. And I was, I was 33. I'm old school. It's not me. Yeah, I was against it. And that was not because I, I used to have debates with friends about how the internet's ruining comedy. Yeah. And now it's the thing. that is, you know, keeping me alive. Right. 2020? That's when I started posting, yeah. That's when you just, wow, that's fast. Well, yeah, so I got past, you know, it was the seller.

I was a comic in, I was doing cruise ships. And then I finally, I did Brad Garrett's in Vegas. And then I met with Matthew Brousard because he was doing the comedy cellar Vegas. So we went on a hike. And then he just, like, on the hike, he was just like, would you ever want to host at the cellar? I feel like you'd be a good host. And Esty asked me recently, if I went on a host, and I go, buddy yeah buddy i chit my pants and quit my everything yeah i'd love to do that yeah and then he submitted

me with a couple other friends i reached out to and then she auditioned me sends me like nine spots none of them are hosting and he he goes say nothing do not be like uh i'm supposed to host the shows and i was like okay and then he goes she's going to ask you at some point if you want to host you got to prepare to say no nicely uh so i rehearsed it weeks jordan jensen other comics were like you have to say no otherwise she'll host you you dude she'll pigeonhole you there you're stuck there for three years and so i was rehearsing rehearsing and then i finally like one day on that seller i'm hanging out with all the comics that told me to rehearse it sd walks my knee touches my shoulder and goes would you ever want the

host for me and i literally after all this practice i just go i'll do whatever you want me to do and everyone just went ew and she just goes okay and just walked away i never had to host ever but i remember just being like i could not have done worse i just said mommy more please like That's all I said. Of course. But yeah, I remember that giving me when I was there and I was doing well. And I was performing with comics that I looked up to when I started. And I'd get a compliment here or there.

And I was like doing, I was like she had me closing shows. And it gave me this like, well, if the internet tells me I'm not funny, they're wrong. Because I'm at the comedy seller. And I'm closing shows and I'm doing well. So I have, I can post and say, fuck it. And that's what I did. I just started posting. And I was like picking up.

And I'm like, shit but it was that initial confidence that gave me that like right you know yeah show with those guys right not being at you know just the grizzly pair or just like a club with nine people in the front row yeah you had validation of it i needed that i needed that i needed chappelle walking by and going on the same show as me you know yeah right now exactly yeah it's such a unique yeah little uh laboratory i love it i think and i've been liking the comedy store i'm not familiar as well i've only like three or four shows there, but I'm liking that vibe is very similar, obviously. Those are the two clubs

that reminisce. But, but damn, I will say, there is a lot of bad, but I will, do you think that it's been subsiding. A lot of the the emergent comedian. Oh, of bad stuff. Like, people going, I can do that. Yeah. It's been less and less,

in my opinion, maybe it's because I'm not looking at it as much, but. Yeah. Well, it is a hard thing to do. That's true. And you know, as a human being when you go up there and it's not working, you know what that feels like, and you're not going to keep coming unless you're getting better.

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control of your finances and a great way to support this podcast. I always love the ones that would get really high, and then they just had a different reality from what everyone else in the room saw. Yeah. Have you done that before? Have you gotten high and performed? Way early. Me too. And And I remember being like, yo, I am on fire. And then I listen to the tape and I'm like, no, there's so much silence. You're the only one laughing. It's worse than drinking in terms of confidence on stage. But anything that makes you different on stage is just so uncomfortable with.

What a waste of time. It's like putting a mask on and be like, let me try this guy out. It's weird. You can't do it. One drink makes you different than who you are. Yep. I used to get, that was a habit of mine for late shows on the road, was I would do like a shot in a beer before the second show to have a slightly different show.

And then it became a crutch. And then it became a, let's do the first show. Oh, really? And then it became like, I'd never get wasted. I'd never be wasted on stage. Yeah. But the one time you go, I was looking at the statistic. Oh.

And you're like, no. Never again. Yeah. That was the word I said. I remember the moment. And I said statistic. And I said statistic. And I was like, I'd never having a drink again on stage.

I one time went out with a friend of mine and he was a big drinker. and I went out, met him. It was like a Sunday. It was a Sunday. And he just would drink like hard alcohol. And he was just a cool guy. And I went, I had a couple drinks with him. And I realized I have a set at the cellar.

And I had to leave and go down. And it was only like probably an 8.30 show, like a 9 o'clock. It wasn't, and it was Sunday. It was kind of sleepy. But I came in there like, whew. Yeah. And I told this, and I told a joke and I was like, the thing with the microphone.

And the guy in the front row goes, you just said that. Oh. Oh, that's the worst feeling of the world. I'll see. Oh, what did you do? What did you say? Oh, I did.

Just to let you guys know, I'm really wasted right now. But I just, I just was like, I can't meet him before a show ever. Man, I still have that fear. Stone Cold Sober second show Saturday night when you're doing a bit and you go, I literally out loud have been, have I done this yet?

I have to stop myself because I've seen a comic do that. I've seen a comic get wasted and do the full bit to silence. And then people going after them, I'm like, you know you do that bed twice? And then the mortification. It's so brutal. Because you're so checked out. You're just so.

Oh, that sucks. You're trying to be genuine and in the moment and you're a fraud. Oh, that sucks. Yeah, you're a fraud. Oh, the conversation illusion is gone if you're then repeating it. You're just reciting a play. That's another weird dance between crowdwork and material is that is the segue back into

written is a tough dance. Yeah. Is the segue of like being riffy and then being like, but the reason I brought this up. Yeah. And then not going into this up, up, up, up, up, up, up, is having that still fluidity. Well, I think that is when you were talking about not hosting. the thing that I got from hosting and the thing that you obviously got from crowdwork is over time, it makes them seamless. Yeah.

My hosting is crowdwork, and then it brought me, it made me more conversational in my jokes. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. It wasn't like, here's a joke. It was like, no, I'm just talking to you. Yes.

And then thank you for being here and right into the material. And it was just like, it's all one. It helps you. I think the entrance of the joke is the second most important thing of the joke. Is how you start the joke. Obviously, the punchline is the most important.

Yeah. But how you enter it is so important that you're not, you're entering it in a way that makes them go, what? Or let me entry, but in a way that's not scripted, you know? I used to host,

I was a house MC for Zanis. Oh, yeah. For years. So I would, they would say seven minutes of crowd work and then seven minutes of material. Oh, really? They would specifically. And it was a couple of years

of a very stark and here we go folks here's the comedy part you know I remember asking for celebrations and then just being like congrats okay so my mom like just having to go into my shit you know but then that turned into

like now I'm doing a thing where I'm asking about wins because I just had like a shitty year I'm having a better year now so I ask the audience about wins and that's a great way to start in my opinion a crowd work part of the show I front load it now yeah with like let's start with positivity dude right you just had a kid you just bought a house you know yeah not like what

you do? Finance. Oh, like, give me info to work with. Right, yeah, yeah,

yeah. It's been fun. Yeah, so is your attitude, like now you have this hit Netflix special and you have all this big fan base

creatively, is it changing anything that you, any way that you're going after social media or just I took a break. You did? I kind of,

I haven't edited a, video in like a month. Like myself. Because they sent me like a bunch of prefabbed ones. Yeah. And I was like, I'll be posting these. And my manager's like, post again. And I'm like, yeah, but I, or I could wait another week and post then.

And then now I get to not do anything this week. Because I'm like really enjoying focusing on the podcasts and the writing material. I'm doing shows every night that I'm doing these like these podcasts and stuff. And it's like I got one line out last night. I got one joke out because I've been telling people in green rooms because I'm going to tell you after it's fucked up. It's not me at all. I'm going to Austin in a few days, so I'm prepping.

And I did it last night, and I wrote that I called my wife. She didn't pick up. I left her voicemail. How happy that was that joke worked? That never goes away. The feeling of a new thing popping off as much as an old thing is like, oh, I fucking made that, dude. So I'll always have that. I'll always want to, you know, keep that going.

And I think this just gave me that relief where I was always up. I was always holding my shield up to people because I'd be like, they'd be like, so you're, I love your crowdwork, man, and what I want to hear is I love your stand-up. Right. I love your set. I love your special.

I don't want to hear. I love your crowd work because that's just an part of it. Yeah. So this just gave me this relief of like, if somebody says like, oh, you're crowdwork comedian. I could be like, I do some crowdwork, but I have a special. Check it out, man. It's 90% not crowdwork.

Yeah. And I have that confidence now to be like, I'm proud of who I am as a comic. I'm proud of what happens in my one hour on stage. Yeah. So that's just. given me a lot more like calmness. Yeah.

With that. So you feel like you're at a point where you don't have to chase it as much? Nah. No. I still think I'm going to always, that's always, it's a fear I never let subside. Yeah. This can all go away. And everyone in my life tells me I need to get rid of that.

But I'm like, that's the only thing keeping me going. Yeah. I would say that it's valid. Yeah. I don't want to be complacent. It could all go away. Yeah. I did that.

Every time I felt complacent, I'm, moved. I was in Michigan. I moved to Chicago to make it better. And then I was in Chicago and I'm like, I'm doing really well here. Nah, fuck, that's not good. Let me get out of here. Yeah, yeah. And every time. So, who knows? I'll probably end up, like, I'll probably wait another year or two for another special. Yeah. But a sophomore special is almost more important than a freshman in a fall, in terms of follow up. And as far as posting, you'll just keep the engine. I'm going to look for somebody to hire. Yeah. For sure. I was almost to this point of putting it on social media, like, looking for, like, what I want is. What I want is.

a 23 year old NYU student. Who's great, yeah, who's hungry. Nail. I want a 23-year-old girl to work for me. I want to, like, a 23-year-old, like, NYU student that's like, I can't come with you, but I can work from my dorm and get you your clips. And I'd be like, great, here's a lot of money for that.

Motivated, yeah. But I want that eagerness. I want that, like, that, like, hey, I know you, I'm not sure if you liked this clip, but I made this in the free time. Would you want to use this? Yeah. That's what I want is somebody doing,

kind of compiling the work that I did earlier. But right now I'm having to go through it, because I don't want to miss anything. I don't want to, I don't know. No. I'm still very hands-on. Yeah, no, I know. I would, yeah, you'll feel.

And then the numbers don't do as well. And you're like, I knew I shouldn't have let it go. Oh, yeah, dude. A bad show. It will get so much work out of me. Yeah. Oh, my God. Like a bad set.

I had like an okay set the other night at the main room fucking comedy store. I did Bullet. And I walked in five minutes before I went up. And I was like, shit. And I was just, I went up, and it was still very fun. I had big pops, but I didn't end how I wanted to. And I fucking, in the notebook for three hours afterwards, just like, I got to move this. This is bullshit.

And I was like, I never want that to go away. Yeah. This fear of like, needing people's approval is why we do this. Yeah. So I don't want to cure that. Yeah. No, I don't think there's, if you're conscientious about it and you really want to be good, there's, there's, the feeling that you're not good enough never really goes away.

Yeah. I'm kind of glad I would hate to be, I'd hate to wake up and go. God damn, I'm a good comedian. That's the worst kind of comedian. Yeah. There is a disconnect when people are like, like if you complain about something or if you're like, oh, I didn't do great. Or do you think this is funny? And they look at you like, what are you doing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got it. And you're like, my wife has a script. Yeah. I have a bad night. She goes, you had 14 million views on this one thing last month. Your Netflix question just came out. It was in the top.

Like she has this script. And I go, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. If only it meant anything. Yeah. Yeah. I know these things too.

Yeah. There's so much of that. Like I don't mind it though. And it's weird telling people, mental health professionals, I'm like, I love it though. I love feeling like this could all end. Yeah. Because I just, I want to, I still want to have that like that, that gratefulness. Yeah.

And, and I want to, I love writing. I love fixing one word. Oh, it's the best. Oh, that's the only problem with driving here. The trains in the subway, I'm, like, thinking of a joke, and I'm like, oh, fuck yeah. Here I'm like, shit. Yeah. I'm like trying to write it down with one hand.

Do you love New York or do you come out here? Dude, every, I love New York so much. Yeah. But I just went to Redondo Beach yesterday. Mm-hmm. That's so nice. I know. Like, there's so much, like, the calmness.

Every time I, like, go to his family in Michigan or. we take a road trip to like the woods I'm like it's so nice but I think that New York makes me love that more and then when I go back to New York I go finally civilization

we're back baby yeah yeah yeah and so I don't know I love New York City with so much of my heart I love walking around I'm like a 20,000 steps a day guy if I have to walk to the cellar

I'll take the long route to check out that new street like I haven't gone down in a while to see what's up I love the vibrance of New York but I love the outdoorsiness of LA. I love the casual, a little more slow pace. Yeah. But I don't know if I could,

my thing is I want to, like, if I have shows, I want to have five shows, six shows that night. Yeah. And I want to just sit down with the Pellegrino and talk to comics until I have to go to that room right there. Right. And in this room. Yeah. And in that room. So far, I don't like, there's only one place that happens. Yeah. It's not just there. And then you can't even work the clubs around there because of, you know, that'd be fucked up. So there's that. But I will say, like, the shows here are great. The people here are great. But the, fuck. in finding parking to do a spot. And then paying more in parking

than I got paid for the spot. And I'm like, I don't even mind. It's $12. And then you get back in your car and the night's over. You do all that stuff and you do one spot. Yeah. Yeah.

Just listen to Google dolls on the way home. I think I do this is I miss riding in a car with no sound. I love for my thinking. It's like it turns on this like all my type A shit goes into driving. Yeah. And that of my brain just dreams.

Like I've gotten the destinations going, whoa, how do they? I don't remember any of that drive at all. And I love that. I love that. Yeah. So I don't know. Who knows? Yeah.

Well, it's great. And I'm so happy that we finally met over these last couple of weeks. Likewise, man. Yeah. It's so funny when you see someone successful and you learn the reasons why. And they're good reasons. Hell yeah, man. Thank you.

That's so sweet. Yeah. I just went to a funeral last night in New Jersey, so I didn't get to bake you bread. So I got you lodge bread, which is my favorite bread. This is bread right here? Yeah. So you can bring that home.

That's nice. Hell yeah. And also, oh, the one thing we did make, I also have these chocolate chip cookies. Oh, boy. You got them? Yeah. Just give Jeff one. Either one.

Yeah. Hell yeah. Cool. These are new chocolate chip cookies that have a little bit of sourd dough in them. Whoa. Do sourdows? I've been freaking out of

over sourdough. I want to learn to make it. I'll help you. It's, I'm obsessed with it. Yeah. I go to the farmer's market every week. Yeah. And I get like a jalapeno sourdough.

I get like, I don't like the wheat ones. Yeah. Like the ones that, too, too earthy. I need that, like, the doughy sour taste. Like, anything that doesn't just sourdough. A little more all-purpose flour. Yeah.

And there's some cookies for you. Hell yeah, man. Thank you so much. And come back anytime. I would love. you all right sounds good you got it kids