Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 345 - Pete Holmes

Episode Date: September 9, 2026

Pete Holmes joins Tom Papa for a candid conversation about bombing, the need to feel understood, and the strange mental and physical work behind stand-up. They also talk about faith, parenthood, life in Ojai, status anxiety, and Pete Holmes's first children's book, Spells to Cast on Your Parents. Check out Pete's tour dates here! Pete Holmes's first children's book, Spells to Cast on Your Parents, is available for preorder now and out in September. He wrote it for his daughter and made the artwork with tape. Our thanks to IQ Bar! Text PAPA to 64000 to get twenty percent off all IQBAR products, plus FREE shipping. Message and data rates may apply. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

my version of that is talking about believing in God. Right. Like that to me. Yeah. And with all respect to the great comics that came before us, it used to be like, you believe. Like, you know, a million are coming to mind.

I don't want to put anybody down. But it was the hot, easy laugh. So easy. To just be like, well, I guess you're like bullshit, you know. And there was a time. A man in the sky. Yeah, yeah. You're telling me, a man in the sky.

Yeah. New rule. Let's stop doing it. No, it actually became, uh, it became intellectually lazy. It did. And it wasn't always. Yeah. But that's, that's life. In the hands of smart people. It was wonderful. I mean, George Carlin, but he loves you. That's a great bit. But that's a thoughtful. Yeah. It's breaking bread. Um, uh, let me ask you something. Hmm. It's good to see you. You too. Always good to see you. It's good to see you too. Good to see. How good is it to see me, though? Like when you woke up this morning, were you thinking, oh, I'll tell you. Oh, I've got to go see Tom.

Well, first of all, I sat on the edge of my bed because I had a call with my mother. I love my mother, but like, there's a reason I'm funny. Can we leave it there? And I just had a bad call, and it makes me feel like a bad son, and I went to bed. And then I was sitting on the edge of my bed, like, just thinking, like, am I the douchebag in the 90s movie

that's on the car phone with his mom? I'm getting roadhead. She's like, nah, I can't. Look, I'm busy. You know, like, I just... At the end of the scene of girls' head pops up. Yeah, of course. That made it worse.

Yeah, but then I was... Then I laughed thinking about your bit. And I wasn't sure. I knew I had one of two podcasts today. It was either yours or someone else's. And when I remembered it was yours, I was very happy. You were? Yeah, day off.

Because I'm not convinced of that. You're a Bueller. I'm not totally convinced. that you love me. I have you on my Largo like bi-annually. Yeah. What do you mean? Tell me what you mean.

I feel like there's a little part, there's a little part of... I love this. What beef are you manufacturing? No, it's not a beef, but I feel like there's a little part of me that annoys you. What? Mm-hmm. I love this. A little bit.

I love this. Yep. I never in a million. I'm relieved and delighted. I'm totally cool if you are. No. But I always get the feeling. Because we're at Largo.

I'm thinking of my jokes. Probably. Yeah, maybe. That's the only guess I have because, but what I was going to say is I'm so relieved and delighted to know that you're human because in my mind, you're sharp dressed, you're handsome, you have all these books. Oh, I wrote another book.

I just handed my fourth one in today. That's what I'm saying. Books are just spilling out of your. but. Whoops, another book. Your book is right on my shelf, so I see you're doing great, exclamation point with a star all the time. And I think of you as the consummate, the mechanic.

The mechanic's too dry. That sounds like you're not really funny, but you're like technically good. The mechanic sounds like a Mark Maron compliment. Like backhanded. A little bit. I don't mean it that way. I mean the pro. Mark's always like, you're so precise.

Yeah, because. means is I'm not and I see what you're doing. I love this. I didn't know this about you. It's only enriching, it's enriching my appreciation of you because me worrying that I'm annoying. That's my bread and butter. I bake this for you. I know you did. I'm ready to eat it. Bread and butter. It's not really. It used to be more so. But it is in, it's all. What was your bread and butter? I'm sorry. Worrying that I'm annoying. or worrying that people think I'm... Right.

You want to go right to it. One of my core fears is I'm too much. The phrase too much. That you're too on? Not even on just... And unfortunately, there's evidence to confirm this. Like, if I let my personality off the leash, not a lot of people are on board.

You know who is, thank you. My wife. I'm not just saying this to whatever. Valerie loves every part of me and I'm fucking... She does. I admire your friendship. We're good friends and we're lovers. No, yeah, and you're intimate.

But just in the brief moments when I see you together, it seems very healthy and sustained at this point. It is. It is, it is sustained. We all talk like him. He's in us. It is sustained. Don't say that. Objection.

He's in us. I'm in you. Tom, make me bread. I love it. Deep fried, put some butter on it, beautiful butter. I'm going to say, it's the best. The Land of Lakes! It's too good.

It's too good. It's not even in the top 50. I know, but it's still so good. I know. I like doing it and thank you for allowing it. What Valerie is doing a big lift. She's a love genius and she really, you know the difference between someone who's like

trying to appreciate or like you. Yeah. just does. And I'm just grateful that I'm like, she can get, who sounds so cool, but she can get the whole thing? She likes the whole piece. What's the part that repels people? I'll just go too far. If you let it out. I'll go too far. I'm, I, this is such, it sounds, um, I'm going to try and, I was going to say, oh, I'll be mean. Really what it is is, is I'll be unaware of where the boundaries are or where the line is and whatever. And even that sounds cool. Yeah. It's not cool. It's much more Stephen Urkel, Steve Urkel, but you

I call him, Stephen, out of respect for the OG. But like, it's like an obliviousness. It's a little spectrum-y, it's a little just like, I didn't know we weren't doing that. You know what I mean? I really am confused by this place a lot of the time. Right. I don't understand our ceremonies, our cultures.

What's happening? Whisper when you say cancer, yes, cancer. You know, I don't understand. Oh, like I'm just kind of doing it. I love the talented Mr. Ripley. It's one of my favorite movies. Oh, that's me. The people that love that movie relate to Mask.

To Matt? To Mask Damon. Masked Damon. Masked Damon. Because we learned growing up in a household that we didn't understand and a community that I didn't understand going like, oh, this is how you can get by. Right.

What's up? Sox, switch, or whatever. You don't know what you're doing. And then like sometimes, because this is also self-serving. but like, it's also nonsensy. I'll get a little grab assy with where I'll push it. That doesn't mean I just say the R word or whatever the thing is these days. That's not what I'm saying.

I'll just kind of blow the call. And Val will always get, my love language is benefit the doubt, benefit of the doubt. So if I say something and it is grotesque or it's over the line or it's rude, Valerie always scans it for my intent. It's a joy. Right. It's a joy. That is a nice thing to have.

And she'll even remind me. She's like, you're not a hateful person. You're not an ugly person. You're not a cruel person. You're just this or this. Here's the thing I get from you. It's not that you push things and are like rude or obnoxious. As you're talking about your head and going places, it kind of coalesced that I get, and this is, you know, this is part of me too.

but I get that you are, you're very smart and your brain is very active. And I get the feeling sometimes when I'm around you that you're dumbing it down so I'll understand. That's so funny. I'm going to remember, I'm going to remember this fake meal. I'm going to always remember this manufactured fake meal. Because it's making me, it's endearing me to you. Because I spent a lot of my time thinking, I'm too much, I'm a fool, like they're dumbing it down, or I'm

misunderstanding. Right. And again, to go back to the true compliment, I just think of you as a secure, and this isn't ruining that. It's not compromising that. It never would have occurred to me that you thought that I was annoyed. That's like the furthest thing from my mind. Or dumbing it down.

Yeah, a little bit. No. Like you're getting through it. No. Thomas. But I see it also. You are very smart. What I think you're picking up on, I appreciate that, is first of all I'm lit up. I'm happy to be here. I've had this subpar espresso. It made my eyes hot. Well, I don't think this is what, you know, got the whole movement going. It wasn't this one. This is more eyes hot. This one's like, oh, something. It's like when you eat Cheez-It's and you're like, why is my cheeks tingling? You're right.

There's something in Cheez-Sets. Yeah. This is a toothpaste? Like, why is it so, it feels preventative? Why do I feel so different now? But I'm lit up. I'm caffeinated. I'll tell a little bit, because I love how candid you're being, I spend a lot of my time not

being this way and wishing that I was. What do you mean? Not being what way? I, I'm not manic. depressive. I wish there was something easy to, not easy, but like they're a clear label. But I spent a lot of my time being either just lit up alive and excited. And that's a lot of the times when I see you, I'm that way. And then the high processing comes out. So it's just that sort of like fast, like fast talking. Right, right, right. Just a fast talking Fred. I'm just a barber that's,

I'm just yapping your ear off. It's not, it's not as amazing as it sounds. It's just kind of a trick. Well, you know, that might be part of it. That might be part of it. My hair cutting business? No, that you are, especially in those moments like when we're backstage of Largo, and we are talking, we have some time together. Yeah. But you're going into the mode that's going to go out on stage and talk for 45 minutes at the top of the show. And you are a little bit of the clippy, clippy, blippy barber guy, and maybe I'm catching that you're not focused and misinterpreting what it is.

You have to, you're the host, you have to keep me this side of pretension. but I do think you're putting yourself in a state. I'll say that. You're putting yourself in a way and you're leaning, the more pretentious way to be like, it's like you're going into a trance. You're going into a place.

So we were, Maya and I were talking about ADD, and I think ADD or ADHD or whatever it is, and I'm not diagnosed. What's the difference? Hyperactivity. One's hyper and the other's just fuzzy. They're just like, do you want some meth? Chill.

You can sell more meth to this one. You're trying to get into a place where my best stand-up sets are where my mind is accessible. It's like widescreen. And I can see it and I can remember, I remember that thing. So I'm trying to prime myself into a self-validating state

and it's not a great place to have a conversation. Right. You know what I mean? it's a weird guy. It's a weird guy. It's a weird guy just kind of... It's almost like with respect to drugs. It's like I'm getting my drugs ready.

Right. And I'm sort of distracted. Kind of talking, but focusing on that. But I mean, like, I feel like if you and I... Vegas is a better example. We had more of a bond in Vegas. Yeah, but that's... I kind of...

Yeah, all right. Well... Tell me. All right. This is where you started to think I didn't like you. Well, when I try and piece it together... Is this Mark, Mark, And it's not heavy dislike, but there's just like, I'm, I never really sure if you like me.

So when we went to Vegas, there's a clip, and everyone's like, I have to, I got to see, there's conflict. Here, I'll give you one. Fuck you, man. Fuck you. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm talking about. Link in bio.

No, but there is, there is that thing when you're with comedian. that you are peripherally friendly with, right? Like, you know, that, you know, we didn't cross paths a lot early on. It was kind of later. Yeah. And we went in early to Vegas to go do that corporate gig. I was so happy. And it was cool.

And we had dinner in that weird restaurant. Do you remember? Like, we went downstairs and we had that weird meal. And it was cool. But then we went up and did the gig. And it did not. go well. The pull quote from the from the meal,

did you bring your swim trunks? Did you remember? Yeah. We were, look, nobody needs any more podcasts with comedians taking themselves too seriously, but we're like, we're like assassins. We're going to Vegas to kill someone. And they're like, did you bring

your swim trunks? It's like, no. Assassins don't go in the pool. We stay in our room and we look out the blinds, and then when a weird watch goes, And I said, you know what I mean? And then I go home. Right, I get on the plane.

I love it. I love it. It's so clean. It's so great. But the gig wasn't great. I remember you being great. I'm not just saying that. Because they had had you before.

Well, I had you since that. I had been with the client. Have you been back? I had, I think I went back. See, Holmes. He's not back. But I had. They were like, get that guy out of here.

And I know this has happened to you because, because you're a killer. And there have. there are certain times when you're with a comedian that you respect and for whatever reason you kill and they don't. Yeah. And that's weirdness. That's weirdness in your relationship. Yeah. Some people, if they're real periphery people, you may have never talked to them again. Yeah, sure. If you're tight. That's happened. If you're tight. Yeah. But it's always like a thing that you care. So I did the gig. I had been with them all day. They'd known me. I was like, hosting. I was their friend. I did the thing. It was fine. You went up and did your act. They were

very chatty, unruly. They weren't listening. And you started going down. Yeah. And to the, you don't remember this, but you don't know, keep going. I love it. To the point where you were telling them, you know, these jokes have worked on the Tonight Show. You know, you said these jokes work at Largo. I didn't say they work at Largo. You did? If I said something, I would have said something that I understand. Rath would know. Wrath was with me. Yeah, Rath was with you.

Oh, that's embarrassing. It was really, but it was, it was a corporate. It was a corporate. Well, I said these jokes worked on Conan. That sounds like some awful thing I would say. Yeah,

something like that. And you were just, you were like, don't get close to the animals. And I was, and I was saying to your manager, I'm like, he should just plow. Just plow through.

Yeah, I remember Dave told me that, actually. He should just plow. He should just plow. Who cares? But you weren't enjoying it. And there's a thing as we know is comics, there's only so much you can take if you're unhappy.

Yeah, that's right. And I can plow and get through this and make this fine for everybody. But now I'm angry. Yeah. And I'm going to let you guys have it. Honestly, that's what Obama is to me now. It's not not, and Val, my wife reminds me of this. So it's really funny.

I'm going out and she goes, don't turn on them. Right. And that's the advice I need. Which is so funny because I don't see that in your personality of like the guy who would turn on them. That's what I think is. I think we're in a good, interesting area because I do pride myself or attempt, make an effort

to be kind, to be gracious, to be present. I'm actually up there in search of connection and authenticity and discovering something in the aliveness of the moment, all that. And if it's not happening. And they were being rude. Ultimately, they were talking. It was a

big baller thing and they're making a lot of money. This is the last event of the night. And they were rude in a certain point. That's real. Yeah, there was rudeness. And you were like, I'm not having this. Well, in therapy talk, I have some protectors. And you know that kind of language?

Yeah, no. It's called Internal Family Systems. One set, if I can plug it, I have a promo code. I'm just kidding. I'm just plugging a type of therapy because I did talk therapy for, you know, a decade. And it's great. Talk therapy to me help me understand, like, boundaries and, you know, relationship dynamic. It helped me understand certain things about myself.

It was invaluable. But especially for men, I'll say, although I think it's for everybody, really feeling, I know, feeling into these things and discovering that there is an exiled little child inside you that's scared and afraid. And then there are all these very strong avatars that we call protectors, that they call protectors. And I have protectors, and my protectors are precious to me.

me and they're not all the job of therapy is to tell the protectors, we're not in danger. We're not actually in danger. I don't need you right now. I don't need you right now. And first of all, you never start with I don't need you right now. You always start with, my God, thank you. When I was seven, holy shit, I would have evaporated. You kept me alive, but we're applying the same strategy to a child.

I'm 47. Right. You just tell them. Right. It's sometimes it's quite funny. You can say, how old do you think I am? And I'm telling you, it sounds woo, but like if you just kind of relax yourself into a state, it's not hypnosis, but you just kind of get honest. These things do you talk back and you go, how old do you think I am?

And they're like, eight. And you're like, oh, my God. So much has happened. Like, I'm married. And you just start introducing them to your resources. Often your therapist is there and you go, I have Claudia. I have Valerie. Look at my, not in like a bragging,

ribs kind of way, but you're like, look at my house. I live here. I don't live in Boston anymore. Right. Acknowledge, yeah. It's just kind of updating them. How split personality is it, though? It sounds like you're 10 out of time. It sounds like you got a lot of people over there. I think the human experience is way weirder and, what's the word, divided or compartmentalized, then we would in our pants and with our coffee and our lunch make it seem. Right. And I think it's very healthy to look at your dreams.

I think it's very healthy to go into these. I just ruin the podcast. No, no, no. I ruined it. No, it's interesting, but it's also confusing. It can be. Listen to someone smarter than me talking about internal family systems. I said all that to say this.

If I think I'm under attack, because when I'm by, bombing when you're a comedian like me, meaning what I'm going for is this mutual validation. I really, I really do want to validate the crowd. I want them to go home feeling safer, more connected, happier, lighter. It's not just... That comes through in your performance all the time. I appreciate that. When I started, it was come worship me. That's normal when you're a young man. Now it really is this thing. And when I, when the risk of being a performer who isn't just trying to technically, and I don't mean you, I know I said you're technical.

I just mean like, I'm not just doing my act, and I'm not saying you. Yeah. I'm going to stop saying that, but I really don't mean you. No, I know what you mean, the guys who are just going to do their thing, and the audience is almost like an afterthought. Some of these guys are my favorites. Yeah.

But like I'm... I wish I could be more like that sometimes. And I'm flattering myself when I say, I'm risking more. I think what I kill, it is, oh, it's the real shit. It's like the feeling of it and the feeling they got. It's like, it's, I'm even going to say it's almost holy. It's like, because it's whole, W-H-O-L-E, that's where we get that word.

We all felt together. But when I do badly and we're not connecting and they're not understanding me, one of my core needs is to be understood. And that can get me in trouble. You're exactly describing that night. That's exactly right. Because it switched to, I'm going to tell you. Yeah, that's right.

What you're not getting about me is what you were saying. I would rather you know who, to use the language of the night, who the fuck I am, I don't mean my career, I mean who I am and bomb, then do eh and just vanish from your night. That's exactly what happened. It's like I don't care. Kanye, the great Kanye, who's never done anything wrong. Kanye had that line.

It's like, not everybody feels the same way about me, but at least you feel something. That's a voice of a part, a vulnerable part of me. Right. And then I'm not happy to hear that. It doesn't upset me. I wish you had been like, and you stayed with it and you kept your cool. That to me is killing. Even if I'm bombing, if I can keep, so I'm wearing Fred Rogers, these are heroes of

mind. People that have like a core that have a reservoir that isn't really contingent on what's happening. They dip into it and they know who they are. They know they're accepted. They accept themselves. And it's not your cup of tea and you don't sweat and you go, boy, I think we all wish this had gone differently, but you don't even say that. Yeah. You don't even know because you can even hold in your awareness. There might be 25 people here where I'm the best comic they've ever seen They just can't carry these 300 people, but not that night. I mean, that's a huge never-ending quest. That's what makes sense so interesting.

That thing of realizing that you're okay and that all of these things, approval and disapproval means nothing. That's a never-ending quest, but then we have a profession where you're standing up on stage and challenging that. Yeah. And also, even if you do accept, that they're not into you, and because it doesn't bother you, and there is no ego and all that other stuff,

everybody else thinks, well, that went horribly wrong. Yeah, yeah. Right? Well, this is... But wait, let me cut you off. Please. What happened with that, at that Vegas show, because it didn't, then we went back to your suite,

and we hung out and... Oh, that's where we had the mince. And we had the little weed mints. The weed mints. And you were, and you were kind of wrestling with it, you were kind of wrestling with it, And when I think about whether or not we're cool or not, I, that night sometimes plays.

Yeah, because, you know, because that thing went like, you know. Wait, wait, wait, it plays how? In the con? Not in the con. What do you mean the con? Like a pro con. Oh, in the pro and con. Yeah, in the con.

That I didn't like you. That we were in that situation where, where you watched me bomb and you had done well. And then is there any resentment? there. Oh, yeah. I love, again. You know what I mean? Which that one I really didn't carry so much. I kind of discounted that because we are similar performers. Yeah. Like we, I agree. We are. Same vibe. Same. Same flavor. Same. Yeah, same. I hope I'm not flattering myself, but like, no, it's true. Hey, we're all, I would write a book called you're doing great.

You would. You know what I mean? Yeah, completely. Yeah. And you're thinking and you're thoughtful and your act, but you also can flip into goofy stuff. And I know, this has to happen to you, too, where you get pictures back of you on stage, and they're always... Right? And I'm out there thinking I'm, like, writing, I'm reciting some poetry. I thought I was chewing on a match. Yeah, I thought I was really getting to the heart of this. And then they come back and you're like... Yeah, yeah. There's Kerouac. But it's, but I know what you, like... We're not too proud. Not too proud to be goofy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. By any means necessarily, it's not the phrase to use here. But yeah, kind of all the tools in the toolbox, not trying to look cool, not trying to get laid. Not trying to get drugs or whatever. I don't even know what people are doing. I do my show. I get off stage, I eat something I'm going to regret, and then I go to my hotel, and I love it. I was always supposed to be a middle-aged man. Yeah, life. And I now, and a dad and a husband.

and I am. And it's kind of like, I'm very fortunate in that I did go into that, a very deep groove in our culture. I was like, that's my groove. And it feels right for me. But when I was 20, I swear, I was like, I don't want to be at this bar. I don't like any of this. Yeah, I know.

I don't like any of that. Yeah. I don't want to get out of here. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar. Our exclusive snack sponsor, IQ bars, are better for you. clean plant protein bars packed with fiber and brain boosting nutrients with zero added sugar. You no longer have to choose between healthy or delicious snacks. IQ bars, plant protein bars are packed with high quality ingredients to help you physically, to help keep you physically and mentally

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just gets me through. When I'm on a plane and they come through and they're like, do you want cheese or ice cream? I say neither. And I take out an IQ bar and when I get off the plane, I don't feel like garbage. I'm ready to go.

And right now, IQ bar is offering our special podcast listeners 20% off all IQ bar products. Plus, get free. shipping. So to get your 20% off, text Papa PAPA to 64,000. Text Papa, PAPA to 64,000. That's Papa, a text to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply, see terms for details, just get it done, and add IQ bar into your life. Did you feel like crashing? Did you feel like crashing was telling the story of the younger you? Yeah, I used to love playing that character because all I had to do, and this is going to sound like a joke, but all I had to do to get in character was find my optimism and find my kindness and just increase it.

Right. Which was, believe it or not, kind of something I had to do because when you're essentially involved in every aspect of a show, it was usually a script. Writing, producing, yeah. I'd look at the other actors, they were laughing and eating cookies. Yeah. They get to go home and not think about it. I honestly, I mean, I've told them this because I've acted in things since crashing and now I'm the guy laughing.

I love it. Acting in someone else's fucking thing. What an easy gig. Just eating cheese. God. They tell me where to stand. They tell me what to say. And you can riff this much and everyone's blown away.

It's true. They can't believe it. And you're like, you really feel like, I don't know, like a magician. Yeah. It's such a pleasure. But when I was on crashing, I had to remind myself this guy is, there's so many stories, it's an archetype in like myths and stuff about losing your innocence. Like the ball goes over the fence of the witch's house. You have to go and get it.

And like a lot of our lives is trying to reclaim. And I think that's the work of our lives is to reclaim wonder and openness. We build all these walls and stuff. Yeah. We are trying to soften that. We want to and get back to it. and that character was the kid who hadn't really lost his ball yet, although he sort of just had lost his ball.

He was, yeah. His wife left him. So that was him waking up to the reality. But also waking up to the reality that people need comedy, when I'm in pain and when I'm going through something, and somebody makes me laugh. Like I was just having coffee with Gareth Reynolds, and I was going through it with like kind of some drama with a friend of mine.

he was ripping me up. I was hitting the table. Like drinks were spilling. And I wasn't, you know, like, I like to laugh at my own jokes on stage. People might pick up that that is kind of a technique to kind of get into the zone. I don't mean any, I mean like real fucking hard.

Like if it was a comic book, I'd be saying hardy, har-har, like fucking in big, bold letters. And I just go, and we need to. remember this and I hope you can remember this too. We can remind each other like laughter is such a healer. It's like a massage that implodes from the inside. Yeah. And we trade in it and we can lose it. It's like jewel guys forgetting the diamonds are sparkly and fun. You know what I mean? They're just like look at little carrots or whatever. It's like, but they're also sparkly and fun. And when you're in pain, like my character is in crashing and he's learning that comedy is even more important than he thought.

Yeah. And that, you know, nothing is really guaranteed. We should get out there and live our lives. Yeah. It is interesting. Like, you have this kind of freedom when you're younger where it's just, that laughter is just happening all of the time. My daughter, belly laughs like every day.

Yeah. If she's on the ground and I tick her with my foot, she goes, ha ha ha, ha, like this laugh. It would like, it's like Pavarotti laughing in front of a ham. Like this, like, true. Look who's over your shoulder. Pavarotti? Yeah.

And look what this is. Ham. This is your Kaiser-Sose moment? You realize I have no riffs? Oh my God. I wonder if I saw that. And there's Sinatra. Oh, no.

I was talking about him on my podcast earlier. Sorry. Yeah. And then you... Yeah, and then you've got to kind of dial in and get serious to be a grown person and take care of other people. Yeah. And it's not about you.

It's not... No. That's something that is also... taking me an embarrassingly long amount of time to realize. Yeah. Well, I kind of feel like you have to gird up. Like, you couldn't just completely laugh your way through it at those stages. You got to kind of, even though we're still goofy and having fun, you know, you get a little

more serious, I think, just in your life. And then you can, then when you realize you did it, you got it all together. Everybody's safe and sound. Let me run this theory by you. I actually think the talent of a comedian isn't joke writing or performing. Those are certainly number two and number three. I think number one is involuntary compulsion to unconsciously refine your work, meaning when you're driving, when you're sleeping, when you're showering. Lines are just showing up.

And we take that for granted. But I wouldn't call myself lazy, but like the best work happens. I have a set tonight. I'll go to bed. I'll wake up. I'll inevitably write down a couple things. Like, you should, that's an opener, or you should cut that. Or, oh, those two go together.

And I really think that's the secret sauce of, like, getting ahead is because if you have to do it, you'll do it. Yeah. And your brain just can't help. But it's like having songs stuck in your head. You have a compulsion that's incredibly beneficial. the the trusting of your subconscious is a huge uh development or moment like when you realize when you think you're not looking at your notes yeah you really are your subconscious is taking it in even if you're

distracted and we're talking in the middle of it yeah the stuff that's going on when you're not even thinking and then you sit back down and go to write and something I it's the There is a real trust in that. And I'm wondering, do you have a name for that? Because with all of your other personality? What did you call them? That's totally. What were they?

The protectors. The protectors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't make it up. I say defensively. I didn't make it out. I mean, people would think those are guardian angels. I mean, you're trying to define things.

Oh, no. They're not real. I mean. Yeah. I'm not an angel person. Who cares? but I draw the line there. But you're just going like, you know when you have a hysterical reaction to something?

Like, I'm trying to give a good example. It doesn't really matter. It doesn't need an example. If you overreact to something. I did yesterday. It's usually because you're protector. Some old pattern, this is therapy talk again, but it's real. Some old pattern was being reenacted.

And you're responding. as if it's life or death. That's what an overreact. And it may be. Yeah, it could be. It feels like it is. Yeah. I was analyzing this yesterday.

I was driving home from church at nine in the morning. Bragg. Humble brag. Very humble. And it was nine in the morning on the 101. Like there's no, like it's chill. It's Sunday. It was the eight o'clock.

It's nine. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of traffic going to church. in L.A. And this guy, yeah, and this guy came from the right in my rear view all the way to the left, cut someone off, came around. My car, I'm going to move over, and he is now almost hitting me over, like, this guy is a threat. And I just turned and gave him the finger at the side, and which I never do, but boom. And he speeds off and then slow. down and then puts his hand out come on come up come up to me and I came up

because I'm not and and and he goes and he gives me the finger back I mean that's the best case scenario and is yeah and is right and is screaming and I just laughed I just went like pretended to laugh like I found I'm amusing thankfully he got off at he thankfully he got off at the next one but to the point I'm not that person but that was a protector moment like I was I was literally like in danger

yeah yeah well you were in fight and was like yeah and like you know yeah fuck you push you out that is life or death right I think when I think when you're on the phone with your mom and you're having that reaction

right and there's a part of you that thinks and that guy shows up you're going to move back in with your mother and she's gonna You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. That's, you have to step in there. I think in your situation, you're having an adrenalineized response.

Yeah. When somebody whizzes by me, which happens like, by the way. Every time. I just feel like AI is solving all the wrong problems. We all agree these guys. It's always guys. Yeah, it's always guys. Well, no.

You see the ladies out there? Yeah. A little too fast, too furious? I was with my daughter. We were going to the supermarket and we're just like, you know, coming up. and this woman cut over on Ventura and, like, got on the shoulder, like, frustrated with us and, like, beeline, just this SUV. Beeline, and then went into the same pavilion's parking lot that we did. And I'm like, oh, I can't wait to see this guy.

And this girl pops out with a ponytail. She was like the most violent thing on the road that it happened to me in a month. And this girl gets out. This is still a thrill for us. The guy takes off his motorcycle helmet, and it's a she. And we're still like, what? It was like, camel lights. Oh, my God.

Yeah, no, that still works for us. Yeah. Yeah, I talked about this on stage once. One of the things I love about clip culture is I do a lot of bits, and then I just don't want to do them again. So I'll just post them the first time I did. Oh, really? It doesn't grab me.

It doesn't stick to me. I like the bit. It's not going to make the line up. But I'm like, I love you. And you used to just go away. And now it becomes a clip. Right. And I did this, so you can see this clip of me talking, true story on the 101.

I'm going like 80. Yeah. The guy behind, there's a guy right behind me, not right behind me. I wash my windshield. My windshield is all fucked up. So I wash my windshield. Some of the windshield sauce cascades over me and hits his windshield. And in the bed I go, hey, you know, mikasa, Sukasa, like, you're welcome.

Yeah. Like, I just gave you free. It's okay. What's mine is yours. I care about you. Enjoy. This guy gets to the right, passes me, he's going 90 to pass me, cuts right in front of me with a, makes a point of it,

washes his windshield to cascade on me. And I was like, that's how nicotine pouch, monster energy drink we are. You can't surrender to me accidentally washing your windshield or just getting a little on you. Exactly. We're so, fuck me, fuck you. That's what happened to you.

And we just have, we've lot, I think you're talking about church. I do think there's, I was going to say preposterous, but I'm going to check myself before I've wrecked myself for a change. And say, I do think it's interesting that our national religion is, the spokesperson of this religion is humiliated, naked, bleeding out on a cross. And we can't allow our windshield to be washed by someone else. Right, exactly. No, exactly. It's a master class in humility. Totally.

Christ, I don't want to get all that, but you know what I mean. I do want to go there, but when I, because it was, because that's always on my mind. Yeah. And especially when you're just leaving and just, I'm on my way home from there. Yeah. Of course. It wasn't, it wasn't a petulant, it wasn't a petulant ego-driven response. No, it was an automatic.

It was a get away from me, you threat. Your family's in the car? You know what I mean? Like it's that. Bro. You're so... So, to share my favorite thing, and it applies to your story, Richard Rohr, who's a Franciscan, who's absolutely changed my life,

he's like, I'm not Catholic, but he's my spiritual father. And he... What's his name? I can't say. Richard Roar, R-O-H-R. He says the whole kit and caboodle, the whole package of Christianity is accept that you are accepted. That's the whole thing.

know that you're loved. Yeah, that's another way to put it. But like, that's, when I wake up at three in the morning and I have, that happens more as you get older or as I'm getting older. And you're just kind of like, maybe you're having a dream, some tarantulas chasing, I don't know.

You wake up and you're just kind of like feeling anxious. The work is, the remedy for me is, except you're accepted, I say to myself, nothing is being asked of you. That's a big phrase for me. Nothing's being asked of you. Right. The brain is fine.

It thinks I have to solve this anxiety. I have to rationalize this. Right, right. I have to tell myself. It's up to me. Nothing is being asked of you. Just drop it. Just open your hand.

You're holding on to this. Just open your hand. And then the other one is, I did it this morning. I'm not saying it's an instant fix, but if you want to call it a prayer, the thing I say the most is yes, thank you. Meaning the whole experience, all of it. Tom, it's funny, you don't like that story.

I'm guessing that you. might not like that story. I like it. You know, I see myself in it and I feel less alone and it's nice to hear. So you just say thank you for everything. That's another teacher of mine, Rupert Spira says, forget all the non-dual theory, forget all of the theology. If you can just learn to say thank you for everything. He's like, you'll, that's the whole thing. That's interesting. The thing I was carrying my head is everything's, we're out of time. is everything's a prayer. Oh, what does that mean for you?

It means all of it. Yeah, I see. This conversation that I get to come and see these folks, that I get to bake you bread last night, if you stop and acknowledge and are grateful, you realize that every moment that you're, every moment that you're conscious of acceptance, that really, you kind of, you kind of, you're kind of, you're, you know, you start to realize this isn't just when I fold my hands together and try and talk to somebody. Yeah. It's all a prayer.

Yeah. It's funny, the idea of talking to God and asking for things is a very modern interpretation of prayer. So when Paul says several times pray without ceasing, he's talking more about what you're saying. We're not talking about a laundry lit. Right. I'm not trying to take anybody's practice away from them, but the idea of prayer being a way of changing the lens with which you look at reality. when Maya was showing me to my parking spot, I just kind of like,

you ever just step into your life? You're there. It's like lucid dreaming. I don't know if you've ever had a lucid dream. But it's intoxicating. You go, I'm in a dream. And when you have that, like, I'm in my life. Like, I think that's one way to understand

the kingdom of heaven or communion or whatever you want to say. but like, oh, my, like, you have it right now. You're just like, this is it. Yeah. This is it. We think we're collecting memories, and, like, later we'll think about them. Right. You think, like, I'm one of those turds.

I'm at a, but I think I'm right, of course. I'm at a concert, and people holding up iPads to film it. And I'm just like, so you can enjoy it later? Yeah. So you can enjoy it later. it's going to take a whole other life to look at your life. And I know I sound like an old person, but I'm just like, it can't all be for the internet.

Right. And it can't all be for the cloud. Yeah. One hour, one moment, one, you know, 10 minutes lived authentically on the knife's edge of the present. Yeah. Of looking at, all this will be gone. Yeah. This building will be gone.

You'll be gone. I'll be gone. Holy fucking. Wake up, like literally, like wake up to this. Live, live lucidly. You can't do it all the time. Don't bring the mind. That's bringing the mind into it.

Well, I'll fail. Just do it now. Just go like, feel, if you're listening to the car, feel your hands on the wheel, feel your foot on the pedal. You know, you're in the shower, smell the shampoo, all that sort of stuff. Right. Just one fucking thing.

I was in such a bad mood. Again, I had that bad phone call with my mom. And I was sitting at dinner with my family and my daughter's, like under the table. Her feet are up on me. Yeah. Because she, she spreads all her cards out. We're playing Go Fish. So she doesn't want us to see her card. So she's under the table. Her little feeder right here. Mom's there. Grandma's there. We're playing cards. I see my dog. I have a great Pyrenees. He's just majestic. He looks like fucking Aslan. And I'm just like, not to beat myself up, but I came into my life.

And I went, these are thieves. You know. We talk about the devil. I don't believe in the devil, but I believe in things that rob us, that steal us away. And I think it's more like our minds. We're our own devils. Our own distraction. We're torturing ourselves. Sorry, you got me in the Jesus way, but one of the images of God that Jesus talks about that I love is he talks about waiting for God like you're waiting for a thief.

So if you've ever been, we actually had this happen. There was a break in at our house. and the next night you're thinking they might come back because they didn't get through the, they were trying to get something. The vigilance, that's what we're talking. It's like walking over ice

that you're not sure will hold you. That's the, that's where God is. That's where you are. That's where you are. It's not about gaining something. It's about recognizing the container for the whole thing was you the whole time.

And it emerges in that type of, it's not an effort. It's more of a stopping thinking. But what's amazing about that is the recognition of that acceptance or love that you, the more that you are prayerful about that or the more that you're present with that, the more you read about that from other thinkers or whatever, it slowly starts to saturate yourself. That's right.

You actually, it becomes less of an effort. to live that way. It really just starts to, you kind of like poke your head up after several years and you're like, you're different. Well, yeah, Rupert, my wonderful teacher, he says like, you start vacationing in the country house.

You always go back to the city, but eventually you just go, I'm just going to live in the country house. Like, why do I keep going, but I don't need to, and you just stay there. It's funny that you mentioned love too. It's like I was just reading about that.

It's like love not, you got to shout this from the, rooftops because I'm one of those people that like you talk about God being love or everything being love or everything being held in love and then you look around and you're like, what the fuck are you talking about? Well, we're not talking about pleasant things and we're not talking about pleasant feelings. We're not talking about something that shows up. Oh, I'm in love. Right. Here it is. We're talking about anything that appears isn't worth seeking because if it appears it disappears. The love we're talking about is here always. And that's the Pearl of Great Price. That's

what you sell all your things to get. That's you buy the field because the treasure is buried in. All these metaphors that Jesus uses, it's this idea that there's something that you are, that you're just overlooking and there's a relaxing back to recognize it. But when you recognize you laugh because you go, it was me the whole time. Right. It was me the whole time. I just didn't know myself. You know what I'm talking about? No, absolutely. Isn't that beautiful? It is. Do you ever have moments when you, you did this great bit. We did a set at Largo about a month ago. I remember you were so annoying. And I don't mean to throw you by that, by the way. The annoying thing? Yeah. I told you it endeared me to you. Okay, good. I love that.

Thank you for telling you. You had such a great set. I was really, really impressed. Oh, wow. See, this is the other thing I wouldn't guess. I'm like, tell him, he sees all these fucking tricks. No, no, no, no, no. Okay, great. Thank you. What Pete does it, the Largo shows, he'll go up. It's his night, but unlike other acts, he goes up first. And he does 45 right off the top, which is great. Because they're there to see you.

Like, why wait and have all this thing and then come out at the end? I hear they do this. You're experimental. You're like, you're very free. And that night, you were just, each thing was just very present. And you were taking risk with being fun. It was just a great set. Thank you.

But you started off by saying something about who here has read the whole Bible. Yeah. Who's read the whole Bible? Which was really, if I'm going to do crowdwork, I want to ask a question they don't normally get. And it was great because like some of the people had. And it really opened up like just kind of a cool conversation. Yeah. And I bring up this long compliment to ask, do you ever read passages of the Bible and in New Testament?

that are, that don't make sense. Of course. And you kind of hang with it. And you're like, what are they trying to, I, what do you do when you're perplexed by? Honestly, at this. There was a, there was a, go ahead. No, tell me, tell me.

There was a parable of Jesus talking about these coins. Like, this king. The king's, the guy's going to go away to be a king, and no one likes him. and he gives a coin to each one of his servants. And he gives a coin to each one of his servants. And then he goes away. No one wants him to be king, but he becomes king, and he comes back. And he admires all of the people who made more money with the money that he had.

And the one guy buried it and didn't do anything with it. And he's so mean to him. And he's so mean to him. Every once in a while, Jesus will throw something down where it's like, you fucking bitch. And he's, and at the end of it, I'm like, and they're like, whoever has a lot of things will get more things and whoever doesn't, I will smite you and destroy you. And it was just so, such the antithesis of Jesus' message all the time.

It's always like, we're going to help the meek. And this one was, we're going to help those who have a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just shut the book and was like, I can't, I can't figure this one out. Just pick up John Grisham. Yeah. Seems like this is more Tommy's speed. No, I get it.

I used to be burdened. I tried to write a joke about reading the whole Bible. And with respect, I was saying it's like reading Lord of the Rings, but you have to justify how every part of it is the Word of God. So there's like giants and circumcisions and all these weird things and you have to be like, that's important. You know what I mean? You can't just be a moment or a story.

Or, you know, when Jesus gets mad in the temple, Father Greg Boyle, who's another hero of mine, he's like, he's just having a bad day. Like we read so much into it. Right. We bend over backwards. Right. Like, honestly, like fans of Superman or Batman, like, how does this fit into our image of him? And like, sorry, I'm on a bit of a tangent, but like when Jesus gets baptized, the apostles

were doing that. The writers of the gospels were doing that. I don't know if it was the apostles, but they're like, and Jesus, even though he was better than John the Baptist, let John the Baptist baptize him. Because he knew, like, if you read the account, it really is like, and you know, Seinfeld open for Malaney. But it's because he was, you know, winking at Malaney saying, I'll be better than you one day. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. So there's a lot of interpreting going on and there's a lot of context. At this phase in my whatever, if I read something that I don't understand or I don't like,

I just go pass. Yeah. Hard pass. Yeah. And I think that's what Father Greg calls the mystic lens. Like you have to read the Bible mystically. You have to read it with discernment. And you do have to apply it to yourself.

And a lot of times there's stuff that you don't understand the context. You don't know what's going on. I mean, I think the parable you're talking about a lot of people are like, because the coins are called talents, which is confusing. So people are like, you got to use your talent. like we'll turn it into something like that. Right, right, right. But I, the stuff I read,

I read stuff that quotes the New Testament. I don't just read the New Testament. Right. I don't feel qualified to do that. I'm like a Catholic again. I'm like, I'm in the pews. You tell me. But I, I, there's certain parts of the Bible.

Like I think being called the light of the world is maybe the whole thing as well. It's like, so Jesus says, are the light of the world. And I would, I think that's incredibly powerful. When I was young, I used to think that meant that we were supposed to be like bright and friendly. Nothing wrong with being bright and friendly, but that's a very Western way of looking at it. We think, as Richard Groh says, the word polite isn't in the New Testament. And we've sort of, a lot of churches have turned being polite into the whole thing. Right. Just like be decent. Yeah. I think it's saying something deeper. It's calling you to a deeper conversion.

And when I talk about recognizing that you're the light of the world, well, light is what renders our experience knowable. These lights are, I'm not seeing this table. I'm seeing light bouncing off this table. In the same way that I'm not seeing you, I'm seeing consciousness is, I know we get so fucking in the weeds, but consciousness is another way of saying the light of the world. It's what renders experience knowable.

And there's nothing seeable without light, and there's nothing experientable without awareness. and you are that awareness. That's a very elegant way to say to a lot of illiterate. I say that with respect, people, a long time ago, how do I explain this? I said I and the father are one. That's kind of, that's kind of any.

How about you're the light of the world? Okay, yeah, all right. Yeah, right. I do think we're doing ourselves a disservice when we're just like, because we're cheery or we're charitable or we're, you know, or clean. Has it ever challenged you to be more of service? Or do you think that we get a pass because we're making people laugh?

Can we call that our service? I love that question. Because you're right in my heart. I spend a lot of, I just, I don't spend a lot of my time watching near-death experience videos. But I have seen some. And more than once people say that you relive parts of your life. but you feel how it felt to the other person. So good times, you made me this bread.

If this is true, time you get to feel how warm that makes me feel. Yeah. So that's nice. But then also you had that altercation with the driver. He's going to, you're going to feel it from his side. He's ripped, by the way. He's feeling so great. You're going to love that.

He's jacked. He's jacked on anger. You're going to love that one. But I'm like, God, if that's true, which I'm, that's not important to me if that's true or not. but if it is true, I hope they include laughter. Because if fans are to be believed, and one of the great gifts of my life is people just slip you letters or little notes on a Delta napkin, and you're just like, right, it's kind of what I was saying earlier.

You got me through. You got me through this. Right. I mean, we watched your special the whole time we were in recovery or all that stuff. And I'm like, the reason I. believe it isn't because I believe I'm so great. It's because I have had so many things carrying me through dark times. And does service mean you have to like know that person or touch, like touch their hand or whatever? I hope not. And I don't think we have a stingy,

for lack of a better word, a stingy god that would be like, sorry, it's only service if you hate it. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. You made all those people laugh, but you didn't show up at the food line once. Right. I do think we've infused charity with suffering. And that's not to say that there aren't wonderful, charitable things we can do that are unpleasant. But I think of a surgeon, Richard Gore has a great line. He's like, everything true belongs to God, everything good belongs to God. He's like, if an atheist does a surgery, that was in the service of love.

It doesn't even matter if they, oh, they made a million dollars. Right. They got a million dollars. I don't think that washes any of it away. I get a symbiotic. I'm being fed while I'm giving. Right. I hope I'm giving.

Yeah, yeah. I don't think that tarnishes it. All right, good. Because I'm really having a hard time getting to help people. I bag stuff up. You what? I bag stuff up and drop it off. Oh, do you?

Yeah. That's nice. I love that. That sounds like a great thing. I think if my daughter calls bullshit on anything when she's older, she'll say, why aren't you more, like, in the mix? Like, why aren't you bagging up stuff? Why aren't you protesting?

Or, you know, whatever. Well, let me be clear. I back stuff up in my closet and drop it at the place. At the goodwill. I'm not there, like, helping bag stuff. I understand. It's pretty small. Count it.

Count it. I have people do that. I'm going, give that away. I don't fucking care. I don't want to see it again. I flickle it cigarette at them. Yeah. I need a big sandwich, even though I'm not hungry.

Just looking at them work. Yeah. I mean, when I do try, drop off the stuff and you see the people that are there for the the shower they have like a thing where people can shower and yeah and you see like you know these poor people coming off the street yeah and you know they're struggling beyond struggle and uh you know your heart breaks but you know and then you see like the little woman who is just in the pew over there is now like right with them and she's in there like doing it yeah pooh.

It's powerful. I know. I'm with you. I spend a good amount of time going like, when, when is that phase? I guess when we're old. I guess. Right? When the tour lightens up. I'm just kidding. For real. I mean, yeah, I think you are right, though. I don't think, I don't think there is a sacrifice. You going out and, you know, I don't want to make it. There is a sacrifice. You're leaving your family. Yeah. You are, you know, jeopardizing your health. You're putting yourself at risk. So you can go make these people in Duluth laugh for a night. And you give it, you're all.

Oh, you need stand it. And you're depleted. Yeah. And you come back. You know, there is a, there is a serve. I mean, you're getting paid and you're getting accolades. Yes. For sure.

But there is also. If you saw me Sunday after the fifth or sixth show, no one would, look, I'm sorry. Would question that you have. No one would question that. that there's a sacrifice. Right. When I come home, I'm not saying this like,

wo is me. I love it. Now there's a price. I am, and I don't use this word lightly, but like psychically drained, like depleted. Like,

that's another risk of doing comedy in the way that we do it is it's like, it's really digging pretty deep. And showing your neck and, you know, you get out and you go back to the room and you can't sleep.

I mean, my sleep is jacked. the whole time. The whole time. Catching little catnaps. Yeah. And really, that thing that I said is number one is plaguing you. You're like getting out of bed to write something down.

You're fucking, it's like, I'm already getting up to pee. I got to do this fucking too. So, and the more therapy word embodied I've gotten and the more aware of my own inner reality, I just mean emotional. When I was a young man, I had no idea that stand up was taking any sort of toll on me. Yeah. And now that I'm a fucking pretty square dad. Yeah.

I'm like just, when I go on stage at 10.30, my opener is, what am I, Chris Angel? I don't, I'm to be in bed, sir. Did I tell you this? I was doing a 1030 at the comedy store. Yeah. And as I was going up, my phone alerted me, time for bed. Yeah. Because my phone's on that reminder of the sleep cycle.

Time to start winding down. I should not be here right. now. Neil Brennan said it the best. And again, I'm not looking for any pity. It's just, he said doing comedy is like being in a small car accident every night. And even if it goes well. I know. I've heard him say that. We were talking about cocaine before the mics were rolling when we were doing cocaine. And I've never done cocaine, but I, the adrenaline, it's, it's incredible. It is. And now, because of our Andrew Hubermans and all of this information that we have, I'm like, I'm telling my body that we're on the hunt.

And then I have the gall 90 minutes later to be like, go to bed. And it's like, we just killed a bore. It's like, go to bed. And I'm like, this is so dumb. I know. It's so dumb. But I told you, if I don't do it, like I haven't done it in about 12 days or something. I have a set tonight.

Where? That's at the store. And I'm just like. it's like remembering yourself. That's what we were saying. I hope everybody. You don't need to be in show business. I hope everybody,

maybe they play cards with their friends. It doesn't matter. Maybe you watch the soccer game in a fucking barbershop. I don't care. I hope everybody finds a thing that plugs them in because I can feel it. Like you start getting a little cuckoo bananas. Is it plugging in or is it purpose?

Yeah, I think that's a better word. You do feel. purposeful. Yeah. And this is a... I mean, literally, it could be purpose. I heard someone describe it as, it could be, I have to take care of my mom.

Yeah. Like, that is my purpose right now. Yeah, that's right. Right. It's too... I hate to bring that up after you just cursed your mom out on the phone, but... I didn't. I didn't.

But I did set a pretty firm boundary and it felt awful. But I... The other thing that is, I'm risking sounding obnoxious, I suppose, but like feeling good at something is maybe, I sound like such an old man, but like it's one of the key. I tell my daughter this,

I go, everything you want, she's already gone by this point. Yeah. Everything you want, she's gone. Everything you want is on the other side of something you don't want. So we all think we want a Sunday. Just want a lazy Sunday.

Just want Coco or whatever the fuck. Feed up. Daytime move. be, I don't know what you want, but like, that's not true. You want a lazy Sunday after a harrowing Saturday. Right, right. And that could just be yard work. Not just be, it doesn't matter.

Something you didn't want. Yeah. Clean the whole house. Yeah, I was just going to say, cleaning your room. Then you have the Sunday. Yeah. And stand up, to me, finding something that you're like, I don't know if it's a drug or if it's the meaning of life.

But I'm like, feeling good at something. And I might not be everybody's cup of tea. And how could, of course I'm not. How could I be? But I am proud to say, I'm like, I'm my own cup of tea. And when I get in the car after just 15 minutes at the store, if I did what I tried to do, I get in the car, I'm blasting hip-hop. I'm making the left out of the lot with brazen aggression.

Just making everyone stop for you. They'll stop. Like fucking Moses. I'm going out. And just feeling good at something. It's like a 1950, like the feeling of satisfaction when you know you've done it and you've done it well. But like that is part of what makes life bearable for me. Oh, it's a big deal.

And when like Netflix just passed on my special HBO pass, I'm just like getting passes. Pass two specials, people didn't buy it. But then I do the store and I'm like, I'm fucking great at this. I know how to do this. I know how to do this. Yeah. And then you go, oh, it'll be on YouTube. Ooh.

And then you go, what a gift that there's another way to do it. That's right. It used to be, no one will see that. Yeah. And then you go, oh, or we'll just, a million people. Or you take one clip of it and nine million people see it. That's exactly right. Off your phone.

It's so insane. It's so tempting to, you know, beat yourself up or compare and despair and all that. But I'm just like, or you can just. But what, and it's, and it's. enables me to do that is just going out and hitting some home runs. Yeah. No, it's so, everything you're describing is so close to me. Yeah.

Even the turning left and feeling like that left. I was so happy to share that because if I have a bad set, I make the right. There's this really goofy left. You're going on to sunset. You're crossing Sunset Boulevard. You're crossing four lanes of Sunset Boulevard at like 11 p.r. You can't even see what's coming. People are streaming from that side.

This is what good, when you're full of it and you had a good set, I'll start going. You go into the wrong side of the road. They'll stop. It's amazing. You just feel like Iron Man or something. And if I have a bad set, I'll make the right and take a left and go down. It's so true. La Cianiga actually translates to soft set.

Right. Just didn't connect. Timid. Timid. And that's fine. It's the La Cienega ones that define the, The strong left. They can't all be struggling.

All right. Now that I feel better that you like me. I wish you could see you from me. Can I ask? I would love it. I would love it. You'd be shocked. When I shoot my next special, I got my eye fixed.

I have a new eye. What does that mean? I had a thing, I have a thing called fuchs dystrophy and it had this blister on my eye for 15 years. The diseases fucking take it easy with these embarrassing names. I have Dupitrin's contracture. You have feeks dystrophy? Fuchs? Fuchs?

Yeah. Fures? You have the furors dystrophy? I have Nazi eye. And I had to get it taken off. So I went to my Jewish doctor and he was like, I will take that off. It would be my pleasure. And so everything's in high death off of that eye.

This one still is to be manipulated. But anyway, I'm not wearing my glasses as often. And I'm going to record my next. my next special, and I'm not sure if I should wear my glasses that people know. Or do I do the first two specials when Tommy didn't have glasses 15, 20 years ago? You know, as I'm about to film my next special, and when I'm doing that, I don't give it a lot of thought, but some thought. Because remember, like, Ellen did that special where she was wearing blue sneakers? Do you know what I'm talking about?

The beacon one, I think? I don't know, but there's a starlight backdrop. Yeah. Blue sneakers. I always think of that as the blue sneaker special. Uh-huh. And you're like, right. Right.

There's the one where Tom's not wearing glasses. Uh-huh. But that's not a vote for no glasses, but it is interesting how you can hone in on one. Do you think it's just in my... Let me see what I think. I think it's more important myself. I say without. Or nobody cares.

You look about six years younger without them. I do. I'm halfway to a boner. Halfway. Well, I don't want to pass out. My director would love it, because it's always hard to shoot glasses. Get those glasses out of here. Yeah, no glasses?

Are you, Katie Lang? No glasses. And your opener's about your fear is dystrophy. Yeah, to start talking about my Nazi eye. I think you can do it. I don't think of you as glasses. You don't. I haven't mentioned I'm going to wear your glasses.

Interesting. You do look a lot younger. You're also not wearing a sexy eye. suit, which is always... Right. When you see Seinfeld in a tank top. Son-so-coz-z-down. He's never said.

Mike Barbigley, I'm going to steal his bit. He has a great bit where he goes, every man has said bros before hose. Every man... Has bros before hos. And he goes, Obama has said bros before hos. Well, Rose before hose. Like, he said it, and he meant it.

How disappointing as a group. Every one of us. Me. I at some point have said, come on, man, bro's before host. And I meant it. It's our dirty secret. Every single George Washington had, fellas before maidens. Like he had his own Jesus. Yeah. Come on. 12 guys. All dudes. All dudes. Mary, sorry. Disciples before. One last faith question. Oh, yeah. You were... I'm free until 8 p.m.

Oh, this is... 8 p.m. Beautiful set. This is taking you at the comedy store? No, I'll probably go back to my office and just, you know, fucking... You still have an office in town? It's where I record my podcast. Yeah, we kept it. Someone else lives in the house, but we kept the back house.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, cool. Yeah. The scene is an illusion. I mean, it's not for young, hip people who are really in the scene and going to parties and stuff. Yeah. But for us, like the scene, it's... just me, it's just the noise of the city behind you. I agree. It's not really, right? I remember like,

when I've moved out here and my kids were little, you live here. Entourage was the, was the show. Yeah. And I remember watching it in Studio City thinking, wow, look at that life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the whole thing was about being in L.A., and I'm like, not my L.A. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're just got a new hippity hop in. No, L.A., there's a lot of different L.A.'s and I don't even know that one. In the times that I've been in that one. Yeah. You know, it has a lot to do with, like, lines. And I don't, like, presenting myself to that.

You talk about, like, knowing who you are. Yeah. The times that I've, I think this is funny. Like, even when crashing was on and I would go to, like, the HBO Emmy party. Right. I was never on the list. Right. I'd always be in the general line.

Yeah. Kind of embarrassed. Yeah. Someone would come, someone came. Someone came and got me once. They were like, let's do the carpet. And then like, let's say it's Sarah Jessica Parker. It's not.

But she goes through and, and they're like, Pete Holmes crashing. One. And then you're just kind of like, and I don't think I'm really hardwired this way necessarily. It teaches you to be humiliated. You're like, no one wanted your picture, dummy. Yeah.

And now you're eating shrimp. You're trying to win it back with shrimp. I just. So Seth Rogan in an interview, like really recent, I think for the New York Times or something, and he was talking about how he had to get to the place, how he had to really work to get to the place where you'd show up and you weren't offended that that one got the thing and that you didn't have as good a room or you didn't have a thing. I'm tiny, bro. That race thing.

First class is like flying first class. The whole culture is that. Yeah, right, exactly. You know what I mean? Group one. Disney World's become that. Do you read those stories? No.

Do you ever take your daughter? Yes, tell me what I'm missing. It's just stratified, the way that all of our culture is. You mean like lightning pass? Yeah, the lightning pass. And there's always like another tier that you could get that will beat out everybody else around you. And it's first class. It's the hotels.

It's a sticky pickle. And I'll tell you there was a time in my life. I hope I'm through it. But where I really, I was 1K on United is United? United 1K? Yeah, United. So I got to board before every fucking month. After global services, nobody knows what that is.

After active military, it was Premier 1K. Yeah. And walking past the tense people in Group 1. Yeah, who think that they were number one. Who think they're first? I mean, I might as well have been smoking a very long cigarette as I walked by them. And now I am the tense guy in Group 1 obviously going like, Group 1's Group 3 now.

Groups one, group three. And then after you have a kid, if I tried to do a joke about this, it's just so hard to talk about. Yeah. I don't always fly first class, but when I do, dosikis.

I know, but I do sometimes. Yeah, as often as possible. It's often as possible. Yeah. If it's not insane, do it. And sometimes when it is insane. But like after you have a kid, you're like, I could fly in first class

or my daughter could have braces. Like it becomes like, a real thing. And I started trying to fly coach more often. I was like, who cares? I'm a spiritual guy. Right. Blessed or the people.

The first can be last. Right. I don't even need premium economy. I'll just be economy. With the Nazarenes. You know what I mean? I saw on my boarding pass, it said, group five, I gasped. I'm not joking.

I went, I was like, is that the same plane? I was so used to, like, but like, I'm not trying to be a victim. I'm just saying we all have to be careful or be vigilant. Yeah. You're being indoctrinated into a system. You're being, yeah. And you'll believe that the HBO Emmy party and your table, it's American Psycho. I don't love it as much as I used to, but I still like American Psycho because it's parodying.

Yeah. Parodying. Yeah. tables, suits, clothes, all that stuff. And that's the water that we're in that we don't realize we're in. Yeah. And it's a really, it's Jesus in the desert. It's like fame, money, accolades, women, what do you want?

Right. And you have to go like, no, I already have it. I have everything I need. Oof, but then you're in row 35 next to the bathroom. Always. And there's a two-hour delay. And you're like, how much is a man? How much can I take?

Well, look, I'll talk out the other side of my face and say, if you travel all the time and at a certain point, it's self-care to go, I'm six foot six. You ever be six-foot-six walking to economy and you see a five-year-old in a first-class chair? You're like, put that kid in the overhead. Daddy's got to sleep. And then you start realizing, like, if I don't sleep on, this is such pretentious bullshit. No, it is. I need to sleep on the plane. I need to look at my notes, all this stuff.

Or you don't because you're crammed. And then the show sucks. And you're like, well, I know three to a thousand people, 300 to 1,000 people that had a worst time. Because I was too proud. No. I remember same math. And I was working on something.

And I opened my laptop and coach. And a guy put his seat back. And I had to close my laptop. And I'm like, oh, they don't even want these people to, eventually get out of this. That's right. That's right. We're like, no, you guys don't have to work.

This is something I saw in an interview. You go to the inner city, all the billboards are malt liquor. It's like, and you go to that fucking seat, all the laptops just get closed. Yeah. You know, the great Brian Reagan bed. When you walk through first class, everybody's on their laptops, like, we're making money right now. We're making money now.

And I'm like, oh. It's really true. great Neil Brennan moment. He keeps coming up. I was in first class going somewhere, Montreal probably. And he was going to coach. And Neil Brennan co-created the Chappelle show. Bro's got a dough. And he's walking to coach. And I'm like, and Neil says out loud, I don't know, nobody's listening. But he goes like this, I have more money than all these people. All these people. I have more money than all these people. I was like, that is the new gangster.

That's really great. That's the new gangster. He's like, I won't fall for it. It's so great. He's a slight man. Yeah, he's smaller. Get in the back. Those seats are, his feet don't touch the ground.

Don't roast Neil. His feet touch the ground. I'm just saying, at a certain point, it's so, I can't do comedy in the first class. It's one of, it's hard to do jokes about money. No. This is why Louis pretends he's on a commercial flight. Maybe he is.

But like, there were times. when you're like, you know. No, you can't. These guys are flying private. Yeah. There's some of them are. No, no, no. You really can't.

It's, uh, there's a, when, you know, when you're talking to your audiences, there's people that haven't been on planes. That's right. Let alone first class, what are you talking about? Yeah, I don't know. Zone 5. Yeah. That's in LA.

And it doesn't matter that you've spent 30 years on in the air. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Accumulating miles so you could finally, like, sleep on a flight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't, they're not, they're not, they're not interested. in that. Yeah. We're all like one bad Christmas carol night away from like changing our acts.

Right. Let me introduce you to your audience. Yeah. Yeah. Not that there's that big of a divide, but there's some people out there that don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And you could, I'm saying we could use a humbling. We could step it down. Yeah, I never understand when comics start telling showbiz stories from the stage.

When they obviously need to get another special out quickly. and everything's about... And I look at Chuck D, and he's like... Right. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, I know. They want to... I don't like stories in general. I have some stories in my act.

Uh-huh. I don't like the feeling of being stuck in the middle of a story. Yeah, yeah. I like bits. No, I know. And this bit. This bit's over. Right, exactly. Yeah, three lines in them out.

To me, it's not just celebrity stories. It's just stories in general. I'm like, look, I'm going to talk like a real piece of shit. I'm going to speak to... Tom in Italian. I just went, it's like, that's cocktail party shit. And I look at her. Right.

And she's holding a butter knife. I'm like, what are you going to do with a butter knife? What are you going to toast them? That's fucking dinner talk. Right. And tell them the Hawaii thing. That's fucking Bush League. Let me tell you, look, the worst time when I shit my pet, we're, come on.

I know. It's Copperfield going like this. It better be a great story. I know. And when I do a story, in defense of my stories, I do try to do all jokes. Jokes the whole way. It can't just be like,

and look, keep in mind, I haven't had a drink in 12 years. I think it's NyQuil. It burns. Shut the fuck up. Like, this is barbershop shit. Yeah. Tell them that thing.

Tell them about the shoes. I thought they were bowling shoes. Shut up. No, give me a great line. Give me a fucking... It should be like Kobayashi. It should be like... It should be like...

It should be like... You don't even know what the fuck is happening. No, it should be special. It's something that you don't get to see all the time. If I can tell it at dinner, and it's as good as if I told it on stage, it fucking sucks. It should be only for the madness

of one guy in a light. That madness. Yeah. The loss... And they're like, I can't be pedestrian. literally pedestrian. Like, we would do that on a walk.

Right. That's why I stopped cursing in my act when I was younger. Why? Because I walked through Washington Square Park and I heard a nine-year-old girl going, what the fuck? That fucking fucking fucking fuck.

And I was like, oh, if we're there, if this is where we're at now, then my act should be something different than... I'll join you there. My version of that, obviously I like swearing on stage, but my version of that is talking about

believing in God. Right. Like that to me. Yeah. And with all respect to the great comics that came before us, it used to be like, you believe. Like, you know, a million are coming to mind. I don't want to put anybody down.

But it was the hot, easy laugh. So easy. To just be like, well, I guess you're like bullshit. Yeah. And there was a time. A man in the sky. Yeah, yeah. You're telling me, a man in the sky.

Yeah. New rule. let's stop doing it. No, it actually became it became intellectually lazy. It did, and it wasn't always. Yeah. But that's life. In the hands of smart people. It was wonderful. Well, George Carlin, but he loves you. That's a great bit. But that's a thoughtful. Yeah. Or Christopher Hitchens.

I don't know. You know, Hitchens? Is he the big atheist? Yeah, he was, he's passed, but I mean, a real mind. Yeah. And he just wasn't, he just couldn't get. there and you listen to a guy like that and you're like you're on your heels you know oh for sure yeah for sure yeah yeah i think the new i'm glad that i feel like i've grown into a time where that is interesting because believe it or not i was trying to do it i remember being at union hall which is this hip place in brooklyn and i was trying it was the first time i tried a religious

or a bit that acknowledged my spirituality or whatever. I wasn't even really spiritual at the time. I probably would have thought that I was in between religions. I didn't know what I believed. But I said, it's not even a good bit, but I go like, I'm not, like I love Jesus. It's his fans that I have a problem with. It's like loving the Detroit, whatever, lions,

but you don't want to burn a car or whatever. And when I said I love Jesus, I mean a full body sweat. I just, you know what the problem was is I didn't know. I was saying something that I thought I was supposed to love. And what I'm saying is it wasn't authentic yet. I can say now I love Christ like that and it's real. Yeah.

If I really think about that, that's a beautiful feeling. But I was trying to do like a religious joke. You were without the... Well, it's like saying you're in love with somebody or saying you're a football. Like they can feel it or I felt like. like they could... You were... You were on steady ground at the time. I wasn't ready to make a claim like that. Yeah.

But... And now it's tricky because when I talk about it, there are so many more atheists that I would align with than I would... Religious people. Mm-hmm. Just because... But I love that about your stuff,

is that you're always discovering, even your podcast, that you're always looking... That's always, you know, like I said before, you're very intelligent and always searching. And I love that being brought into your act. Yeah. Because... Well, it would be dishonest at a certain point. Yeah, yeah, right.

To be a dog about this huge thing. This gigantic thing. It'd be like being dressed like a hot dog and you never talk about it. So Trump's at it again. Talk about the bun! Yeah. Well, listen, I don't have a show tonight at the comedy store, so I think we should wrap it up. You should come by.

What show is it? I'm not going to. Saratella. Yeah, I can't do it. It's a funny brain. Were you going to say that no matter who? Yeah. That's all you got to do.

Yeah. Do you want the people to know anything? Are you touring or are you staying in town? Well, yeah. When is this dropping? Okay. Still summer. Still summer.

Still summer. We're making money right now in the summer. I don't know where I'll be. Where do they find out? Pete Holmes. I'm doing a bad job. I'm also suppressing a burp, that old guy thing. What an awful time to have to do that. Pete Homes.com and Pete Homes on all the socials and all that for the tour.

But I also have my first kid's book, which is called Spells to Cast on Your Parents. Oh, yeah. I'm quite pleased with. I love that. It comes out September. That's such a great. concept. Oh, you can pre-order it. In fact, who am I talking to? They say pre-orders really help the algorithm and all that. Right. And it's not just about sales. I'll never see another dime for this

book for sure. I think it's like 98% of books never make any sort of bonus or anything. Yeah. But I'm very proud of it. And I wrote it for my daughter. Oh, but it's true. I bought a blank book on Amazon.com. It says little mom and pop. And I made the book spells to cast on your parents because, and I mean this earnestly, I remember, I can still remember what it felt like to be a kid and just feel like you have no agency in the world. Yeah. Everywhere you look is just legs.

Yeah. And you're just, and shoes. And you're just so small. Small. Yeah. And like B.J. Novak's book, the book with no pictures, something like that, I think it's the book with no pictures. I love books that, you know, encourage grown-ups to be.

be silly. And maybe you don't have that gift. But you still want to have that moment with your kid when you're making them laugh. This book is a light lift. It takes six minutes to read. None of the spells. All the spells are being cast on you, obviously, the person reading it to the kid. But they're all easy. It's like the slow motion spell. That's great. A sleepy spell. The gibberish spell. All these spells. But the kid reads the spells. So there's like reading in it. The book is guarded by a dragon named Jesse who doesn't want you reading the book so there's peril. And I'm just really proud of it. It's really great.

It's like every once in a while you have an idea and you're like, this is one that you pulled down. Yeah, yeah. Like it was in the collective and I was like, oh, spells the cast. I think I texted you when I saw the first thing about it. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was just one of those that's, oh, come on. Of course. I thought of the title first. Yeah.

And then this is, I think this is interesting. my agent was like, do you want to meet with this woman at this publisher? Good story. And I didn't have an idea for a kid's book, but I love saying yes. And then knowing, talk about your unconscious. I will now be so aware that I have this meeting that by the time I have the meeting, I'll have the idea. And that's what pushed the idea out. And then it took a couple iterations.

But by the time I had the meeting, I had the idea. And I have the book version that. I made for my daughter. And it's almost page for page exactly what we made. Yeah. And I only say that to say, well, one, because I love to brag. And two, because there's something like right about it. It wasn't, you know how Jerry is about like a Bick pen?

Yeah. I'm not saying my book is perfect. I'm just saying it wasn't, I didn't have to force it. Right. It was like this. You weren't scrambling and forcing. Just kind of flowed out. Yeah.

And as I'm trying to make the sequel to it, I'm like, I can't force it. I can't be dumb. But I am working on spells to cast on your kids. Oh, yeah. Who did the artwork? I did. Oh, you did the artwork.

Yeah, and I did it in tape. Oh, wow. Maybe you could, you don't have to do anything, but you can see images. We'll put it up. They're on Amazon. We know how. Yeah, yeah. We have a, I think we have Adobe or something.

Adobe, Creative Cloud. Apple, Apple, Apple, dot, Apple.com. Apple cut them up? Apple cut them up? Yeah. It's like, it's like a, it's a, it's an editing thing. There's a new CEO. It was cut them up.

Yeah. But it's actually, I think that's interesting too. I had so much black to fill in for Jesse, the dragon that I was like, well, I need a way to do this. And I started using tape, just masking tape. Right. That's right. So it started from like a need. But then I really liked it.

I was like, I'm just at my kitchen table. Yeah. My daughter would sometimes be at the table also drawing Jesse. And I was just like, like, I was just like. like, wait, if I've been doing the wrong thing. If this is a big hit, I can ease into my later years of making kids books. Man, I think of that with books all the time. It's like when you're old and still creative, but don't want to get on planes anymore.

Bro. To be able to... You mean me 10 years ago? I'm just kidding. I actually don't mind. I don't mind traveling. But yeah, I know what you mean. We have the same backup plan.

Yeah, that'd be great. Well, this is great. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much. I love you and I like you and you're not annoying. I love you too. And I think you're wonderful.

Yeah. All right, good. I'm going to make it more clear next time. No, you don't have to do anything else. No. I found out. I'll just have my wiener out. I found out.

Half hard. Half-heartedly. Let's call you. We're going to name this episode half-hard. All right. We got it.