Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 348 - Jenna Fischer

Episode Date: August 15, 2026

This weekend we welcome Jenna Fischer to the pod! Jenna is author of two books. She hosts the Office Ladies Podcast along with Angela Kinsey, and she stars in the upcoming film Nimrods, in theaters August 14! We're so thrilled to have her join us at the table. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I didn't know what... Yeah. They just called him the executive producer. They didn't even use the term showrunner. I didn't know that he was like literally the genius behind it all. Yeah. And at one point in the audition process, he's sort of very sheepishly and shy as Greg is, came up to me and he had a couple pages that were original. They weren't from the British pilot.

And he was like, hey, I just thought maybe if you want to take a look, maybe I'll pair you with John Cresensky. Maybe the two of you could read this. I don't know if you want. And so I read it over and very sincerely I said, this is really good. This is very, very good. I want you to know. You should do more of this.

That was like, that was the tone of my voice was like, this is good. If no one's told you. It's breaking bread. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, this is very exciting. tried to get you a while ago because of your love of bread.

Yes. Are you still doing it? I'm not still doing it, but I still love eating it. Okay, good. But I'll still talk to you about it. I have a lot to say about bread. Okay, good. I baked this for you.

You made it? Yes, yesterday, last night. Is it a sourdough? It's a sourdough. Oh. And I baked it for you. And you can bring it home. We have a little bag for you.

But I really was when I was doing it because I just got off the road and I was like making sure everything was, I could not bring you back. If I know that somebody knows what they're talking about with baking bread, I get very nervous. You do? Yeah. Are you?

You made me nervous. Do you need me to send you a picture of it after I sliced into it so you can see how it went inside? Just a general comment. We have had people who've come on and said that they were going to comment and then didn't. And as these kids know, I'm still carrying it. Okay. I promised a comment. The crumb looks very good.

Thank you. It's very nice. How, why did you stop? I actually had to go on a gluten-free diet for a little while. You did? Yes, I got a reactivated Epstein-Barr virus. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. No.

Okay, so if you've ever had mono as a child, that virus stays in you. Okay. And it can get reactivated. Oh. So it's kind of like how, if you've ever had. had chicken pox, you can get shingles. Yeah. It's like that.

And it causes a lot of inflammation. So to get through it, to help with the recovery from it, it was suggested to me that I go on a a gluten-free diet and I did that for about two years. Really? Yeah. I'm back on gluten, though, so don't worry, I'll be eating your bread. Okay. It was a temporary thing.

It's not celiacs. It's not a gluten intolerance, but it did help with some of the inflammation that was caused by that virus. You're like Matt Damon. Except I'm not because Except I'm eating all the bread He's going to eat the bread too You think he's going to go back?

Yeah, I mean, yeah Yeah, he's motivated to not eat it right now Because people are paying him to be in these giant movies Yeah With a really great body There's going to come a point where they're like, You know what? You get to play roly-poly guy this time

He's going to love it And then he's going to be so happy And he's going to come back Yeah Well, I'm glad you're back I'm back, but the thing was was that as you know, making a loaf of bread, it's an all day thing. Several days.

Yes. And feeding the starter and keeping it going and all of that. And I just couldn't bring myself to keep doing it if I couldn't eat it. Yeah. Like it was, I did for a little bit and I just watched my family eat it. Yeah. But it bummed me out. Yeah, it would be sad.

So I stopped. Good for you. I kind of want to get back into it. Did you like doing it? I loved doing it. Yeah. And I have a lot of thoughts on it. Okay. So I started doing it at a time in my life. I started the breadmaking when I was at a little bit of like a crossroads. So I was on a television show called Splitting Up Together. Right. And I was working a lot. And the show got canceled after two seasons.

Right. And the thing that I learned about being on that show for me personally was that I didn't want to be on another show again. And this was because it was a great cast. and it was a great show and it was a great script and it was close to my house. But I really miss my kids and I miss my family because it was still a 65 hour a week job. It was still leaving in the dark in the morning and FaceTiming at bedtime. And I thought parenthood is such a finite period of time. It's only going to happen in these 18 years. I want to be here for it.

I want to be home for it. Smart. So I started breadmaking, and I think when I look back on it, I think it was because I wanted to be tied to my home. Because when you make a loaf of bread. It's true. It's really true. I have that right now. I've been on the road a lot this year, and I'm home now for like a month without going on the road. And it's all coming. I've ordered the flour. I've gone through my baskets. I have the time.

And it really, when I would work on my books, I always knew I'm home because I'm baking the bread. Like it sinks up. Yes. It absolutely sinks up. Because you have to like fold it every 30 to 45 minutes. Yeah. And while it's rising. And you have to watch it but not watch it.

And you have time in your day. And you have to know that you're going to be around for a couple days. It's a very nice feeling. Have you ever taken your dough with you somewhere? Because you had, I had to a couple times bring the bowl with like a, you know, the, what do you call it? The towel on top. Yeah, the tea towel. Yeah.

And I brought it into places because I'm like, I'm so sorry. But I'm going to have to fold this dough. Right. Yeah, I haven't done that. Okay. There's a guy in Las Sienega, Vito's Pizza. Have you ever had Vito's Pizza? It's like, as you're starting to go up the hill.

And he's a great. I think it's some of the best pizza in L.A. He's from New Jersey, and he has a sourdose starter that he uses in all of his dough. Oh, wow. He takes the lid off and takes it for walks every couple of months. Is that right? Just because there's the natural yeast that's in the air. Yes.

And he just takes it around to keep it healthy and happy. It's very funny. And he has his big friend who's kind of musselie walk with him, like he's the bodyguard of the starter. I love that. Do you still have your starter? No, my starter died. Rest in peace. Goldie.

I named it Goldie because it kind of reminded me of like a goldfish. You had to feed it once a day, but otherwise it just was fine on its own. Yeah, just kind of be by himself. Yeah. And you know what? I didn't like. I did not like putting my starter in the fridge and only feeding it once a week. I like keeping it on the counter and I like feeding it every single day.

I felt like it did best for me that way. I never could do the fridge thing. I do the fridge thing because I'm gone a lot. Yeah. Well, and that's when mine died was when I put it in the fridge. When I started, I came out of my thing where I needed to be at home constantly all the time. I started going out in the world again. And I put it in the fridge.

We went on a vacation. And I don't know. It just wasn't the same when I got back. Oh, interesting. Well, you can kind of like kind of nurse it back to. health, that kind of thing. When you unplugged and you decided I'm going to be with my family for a while, was it worth it? I'm still doing it. You're still doing it. It's still worth it. Really? How old are they now? Yes. There are 12 and almost 15. Ah, sweet spot. Yeah, great. It's all a sweet spot. But that one is kind of,

that one's kind of poignant because it's 15. You've got three left. Yeah. And there's. out and about. I know. Yeah. He's going to be a freshman in high school this year. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's big. Yeah. Are you enjoying it? Do you think it was the right move? Very much the right move. Yeah. And what I did during that time was I ended up doing my podcast with Angela Kinsey, office ladies. So we, she was feeling the same way. And we would commiserate. And she would say, why are all the jobs outside of L.A. or, you know, I'm She had a job in Vancouver, a job in Atlanta. And she was like, oh. And we'd always wanted to work together again. Yeah.

And we actually, what our dream was to take over the fourth hour of the Today Show one day, like Kathy Leigh and Hoda. That would be perfect for that. That's what we wanted to do. Yeah. And then we were like, well, wait, what about a podcast? And so we work from home four days a week, producing and writing the podcast. It fits into my kids' school hours. Right.

And then one day a week, we're in studio and we record. That's great. Yeah. And it's been amazing. And we've been doing that now for seven years. Seven years. Yeah. Man.

Was it popular right off the back? Because I know so many people love it. It was. It exceeded our expectations right off the bat. Yeah. So. People just craving anything office. It really was like this unplugging from a family.

And it left people really. longing. Yeah. Right. You must feel that from all of the fans. I feel like what we were hopefully able to do and what we continue to do is bring people like into the behind the scenes and into the fold. Like the fans are such a big part of the show. Yeah. In their knowledge of it, in the fact that they watch it all the time and they know us so well. And I think the thing that I'm most proud of with the podcast is that we've been able to highlight some of the non on camera people who made the show possible. Oh, that's nice.

It's really exciting to me when we get a letter that says something like, oh, I was watching this one episode and I'm dying to know if Kelly Cantley did a safety meeting on that. And that was R.A.D. Kelly Cantley and we're like, she did. She had a safety meeting for the lit candle. You called it. So, or they'll say, will you please find out from Phil how much he spent on that prop because Phil Shea was our props master. So because the making of the office, we were very close with our crew. Right. Yeah. And some of that was because of the nature of the show. Yeah. You know, our two camera operators were as much characters and actors on the show as we were. Right. They were part of the choreography of how we told a joke or how we told a story.

Right, right. And we had a very intimate relationship with them. Every time. I would look at the A-camera operator, Randall Einhorn, who was our DP, who went on to be our director, if I smiled, he would smile back at me. Right. And so, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and the crew was, everybody in the crew cared so much about what they were doing. Yeah. They were so passionate and nerdy about the prop or the wardrobe or the makeup or the

whatever it was or the lighting or making the lighting a little bad. Right. So that it was right. You know, like everyone really cares. How quickly did you know, or actually, I don't know this story actually, of you getting the role. Oh. Was it difficult to get? Well, yeah, they had a lot of audition.

It was months of auditions. Right. The casting director was Allison Jones. Right. And I had known her for about five years. I had done a general meeting with her. Okay. And it went well.

Nice. And she called me in for. undeclared, which was a show that Judd Apatow did after Freaks and Geeks. And I got a one-line role on that. And then she called me in again for little things here and there. Yeah. I got some of them. I didn't get others.

And then my great luck is that Alison Jones was casting the office because it meant I even got to audition for it. Yeah. Yeah. And she called me in. And before I went in, since I knew her, she said Jenna, listen to me, do not try to be funny. Please don't like try hard. Right. That's not what we're looking for. Right. Also, don't look hot. And I was like, don't look hot. Usually the note is you're a pediatric nurse, but like hot. Or you're a schoolteacher, preschool, but like hot. Yeah. You know, usually they always want you to be hot. Of course. She's like not hot. I'm like not hot. I was like, do you mean it?

She goes, here's what I want to say to you. Dare to bore me with your audition. So smart. Best words she could have said. So smart. So I was like, all right, I'm going to do it. I'm going to bore you. I'm going to dare to bore her.

So I went in and my first audition was with Greg Daniels, the showrunner. And I had a scene that I was going to read, but first he wanted to just interview me in character. Uh-huh. And I wore an outfit. that I had worn many times in my real life as an actual administrative assistant because that was my job. That was my side gig as an actor. How old were you at this point? I was 29. Okay. And I left my hair frizzy. I wore almost no makeup. And I remember the moment that I think I got the part. Oh yeah. Greg was asking me, you know, what's your name? Pam Beasley. What do you do here? I'm the receptionist.

And the third question was, do you like working here? And I said, no. And then that's all I said. I just said no. It's so great. Just the look. And he just looked at me. And then I looked at him.

And then he looked at me. And then he started laughing. And I was like, I got him. That's so great. Because I just thought with this character, I feel like. That's so great. Everything she's not saying. Yeah.

That's her thing. Like, there's nothing clever. There's no line. There's nothing funny I'm going to say. Right, right. That's better than everything she doesn't say. Yeah. Because that's her whole role in the show.

Totally. The whole essence of everything you did for all those years. Yes. You just did it. Yes. Yes. It's just so much she's dealing with every day with this man, Michael Scott. So wait, that was your first audition.

That was my first audition. audition for it, but I was brought back many times. Many times. Yeah, and then I had to do, with other Pams? Finally, I was. The final test, they did a full screen test, and they had four Pams and four Dwights and four gyms, and I only, I only read with two Michaels. I only read with Steve Correll and Bob Odenkirk. Right. So, and I prepped my test with Bob Odenkirk because his wife, Naomi Odenkirk is my manager. So she said you and Bob should get together. You could work together.

Right. And so Bob and I worked together on our audition a little bit before we went in. Right. And he did this amazing thing for his audition. He brought his guitar and he sang. He sang to Pam. It was very, very funny. Yeah.

And Bob and I have talked since about it. And he's like, I think I went too dark. I think I just went too dark. Oh, really? Yeah. But then in season nine, they brought him back. Pam goes to Philly. Jim has a job in Philly.

And they thought it would be very funny. Pam's going to maybe move to Philly. So she's looking to get a job at this office in Philly. And the joke is when she gets there, it's just Dunder Mifflin, but an alternate universe. And they hired Bob. to be like the sort of Michael Scott of that office. That's funny. Yeah.

Man. So over how much time, like did you, you sensed I got him when you made him laugh? Yeah. And then you've got to, what, like a month or longer? Longer. It was about four. It was about four months until like the final test. Such torture.

It was torturous. Yeah. Did you lose confidence and come back? Or did you kind of? Being honest, I did not. Really? Yeah, you felt it. And this has really only been true for me a couple times in my acting career. But there are certain things where I felt like it was mine.

Yeah. You know? That's so great. And I remember one of the other Pam's at the audition at the test. She had on these knee-high boots. And I was like, Pam would never wear those boots. No. Pam doesn't wear boots.

like that. I don't think so. Yeah, you knew it. I kind of knew it. You knew it. God. Did they give you a lot of material or was it mostly? For the audition? Yeah. We were reading from the pilot of the British show. Oh, okay. So we were doing those scenes. Right. But then Greg Daniels did give us a couple of other things. A very funny story. I didn't know who Greg Daniels was. I didn't know what. Yeah. They just called him the executive producer. They didn't even use the term showrunner. I didn't know that he was like literally the genius behind it all.

Yeah. And at one point in the audition process, he's sort of very sheepishly and shy as Greg is, came up to me and he had a couple pages that were original. They weren't from the British pilot. And he was like, hey, I just thought maybe if you want to take a look, maybe I'll pair you with John Chrysend. Zinski, maybe the two of you could read this, I don't know, if you want. And so I read it over and very sincerely, I said, this is really good. This is very, very good. I want you to know.

You should do more of this. Like that was like, that was the tone of my voice was like, this is good if no one's told you. Because I thought he was like, I thought he was like an executive. from NBC executive producer who was like, I didn't understand what he was. I was so embarrassed. I was so embarrassed. Like later, like much later,

after I got the part more, I was like, oh my God. Of course it's good. Yeah, he gave me my stamp of approval. Yeah. You should keep at this. You should think about it. I don't know.

Write some more. Were you, as you're being teamed up with different actors, Was there something unique with you and John from the start? There was. Yeah. There was. We just kind of clicked.

Yeah. We kind of shared a brain. I've said before that like imagine if you walked into a room and music started playing and then you both knew the dance and you just did it. Right. Somehow, but you'd never met before. Yeah, yeah. That's what it was like. Right.

It was like we both knew how to do it. And how many other people on the. cast did you need that? I mean, that was so unique and a special relationship, but it wasn't your only relationship in the show. Yeah. And it seemed like the hive mind of that show. I mean, it's the brilliance. It seems like there was a lot of, you were dancing with a lot of partners. Yeah. Yeah. Right? That's true. Yeah. I, the Rain Wilson at the audition, I thought he was the weirdest person I'd ever met. Yeah. I was like, this guy is strange. And he's not like that in real life, but he was doing that for the audition.

Yeah. And that was pretty great. And he and I, I felt like we had another sort of similar thing that they ended up writing into the show, which was that she actually has a sweet spot for him, a soft spot, you know, for Dwight in her own way. I think that kind of came out of a little bit of our real life chemistry. I have a very big soft spot for Rain Wilson, the man. I just think he's a wonderful person. Yeah, he's special. Yeah, he's special.

Yeah. He is. He's one of my dear friends. I tried to get him on my show. I had a pilot and I tried to get Rain, I brought him to network twice. And it didn't go well the first time. And we brought him back again. We like begged, please just give him another chance.

And thankfully, it didn't go great and or it would have ruined his career. Would he have not been available for the office? if he'd gotten it? Is that what would have happened? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, I almost ruined Rain and Steve's careers. Because Steve was going to do that.

Steve was on it. Steve was on it. You have to remember. I have to remember. You have to remind me. Yeah. Rain, we tried to get rain on it and it just didn't go. And then he got that part.

And Steve has, I've told this. Steve had a deal, overall deal with NBC. Okay. And they put him on, a new president came in and they put him on our show. Okay. And he did not fit. It wasn't the show, but it was Steve Correll. And the network president calls and says, we'd really love it if you put him on your show.

And it was like, well, you're not going to say no to one of the funniest people, you know, and make the president happy. Yeah. But they had no designs of him being on this show or this. It was kind of an audition for the office. That's so interesting. Yeah. It was kind of like it started, it was misfiring.

But they knew he was playing, he was playing a lesser version of the role he played on the office. Wow. So I had Steve and Rain. Anybody else? Both careers we could have killed. Their greatest blessing was not getting on our little pilot. Isn't it crazy how like things that happen, like they end up leading you exactly where you're supposed to be. but in the moment you can't see it.

Yeah. Like the year before the office, I had booked a pilot. Yeah. And then it didn't go. Right. And I was like, I give up. Yeah, it's the end. This industry is bullshit.

Yeah. I'm over it. And it's like. So crazy. Thank goodness. Yeah. Yeah. Because then I was available.

Right. The next year. Yeah. It's so good. Tell me about your book that you wrote on acting. Survival Guide. Oh, that actor's life, a survival. guy. Yeah. When did you write that? Like at what point, what perspective did you bring to it? So, do you

remember MySpace? Okay. So when the office first started, a bunch of us had MySpace pages. And we would do Q&As with fans of the office. We had this online community on MySpace that was like really loyal. Right. And we would post blogs about the show. And one time I got a request to give some advice about how to make it as an actor. So I wrote this really impassioned essay. And that essay ended up doing a version of going viral, but like within the acting student community. So I would run into acting students and they would say, I have your blog from MySpace. We pass it around. Thank you so much. What else can you tell me? And that was kind of the inspiration. What was the heart of that?

Of that piece, of that essay? Well, was it more... It was about perseverance. It was about consistency, creating a consistent body of work. But more than anything, I was writing to myself before I moved to L.A. I felt like there were all these things.

I was in L.A. for close to nine. years before I booked the office. Nine years? I didn't know anybody when I moved to L.A. Where'd you come from? St. Louis, Missouri. Right. I knew a couple people who had graduated the theater program of my college the year before.

Right. I moved in with one of them. He had a commercial agent. I was like, so then she'll be my commercial agent. I've got a commercial agent. Of course, she did not represent me. And I very quickly had no agent and no idea what I was doing. Yeah.

And so the book was, and the essay and then the book were basically everything I wish someone had told me. Right. So that I didn't have to take nine years to learn all that stuff. Yeah. And the book has stuff about headshots and finding an agent and the difference between an agent and a manager. Like if you're interested in being an actor or even if you're already doing it and especially if you're kind of in the struggling actor phase, aspiring actor. phase. Yeah. It's a great book. That's great. And that's who I wrote it for. You have so many questions that you feel dumb asking. Yes. Right? Yes. In the beginning, you're just like, yes. By saying it's how loud they're

going to know, I know nothing. I mean, I put stuff in there like, don't bring your Starbucks with you to your general meeting with a new agent. Like, leave it in the car. Right. Like, don't roll in with your Starbucks. Yeah. Especially if you're running late. And by the way, don't be late. Right. Like, these are just like things, you know, that's great. You think. You think. you don't have to say, but I've got a whole section on headshots when I was writing the book, something that was really crazy to me as I went through all my old headshots, and I realized that I had worn the identical outfit in my first two headshots. So I came out, I got a headshot. Yeah. I wore my favorite outfit. My favorite outfit was overalls in a white shirt. Right.

Adorable. From Missouri much. Yep. And so. And then I sat in this way where I was like, I was like all like closed off like this. Guess what? Guess who got zero auditions from that headshot? So I'm like, I need new headshots. Clearly I need new headshots. It did crack me up. It did not occur to me until I was writing this book.

I'm like, where was my second headshot? I found my second headshot. I kid you not. It was the same outfit. It was the same overalls and the same white shirt. Yeah. The same pose, but my hair was longer. That's the only thing that changed.

That was it. Did you book more? No, I booked nothing. I booked nothing. So I include all of this in the book. And I'm like, be strategic. Right. Before you, don't just wear your favorite outfit and sit comfortably.

Like, have a point. Yeah. And I got this great advice from a casting director who said, she said, I give, you know, when someone's asking me advice about how to take a good head. I say, I want you to pick five adjectives that describe the roles that you think you will play. And I want you to give this adjective list to people who know you and they will tell you who you are. And so when I finally got my really great headshot, I did that. Right. And I show the headshot that I got out of it. And that is the headshot that I had when I booked Pam. Right.

And I'm trying to remember what they were, but I remember one of them was like open, like kind, like earnest. Like these were the adjectives. Yeah, it was just describing Pam. Right. And I remember Allison Jones told me, oh, I've used that headshot to tell people that this is a great headshot. But it took me six years to finally. figure out that headshot? And I thought, well, what if I could write a chapter about everything I learned? I could save people six years. That's so great. So that's what the book is. I'm really proud of it.

Yeah. And I liked speaking to aspiring artists. Yeah. I love artists. I love actors. I love people who do this with their life. Yeah. Yeah. What do you, do you feel like there's a, that the things from the book still resonate, even though things are changing so quickly? I feel like I need to do like a revised. edition because so many things are when I wrote the book, there are so many things that are different just from when I was coming up in the business. And since COVID, they've changed so much. So much. I mean, it's all on tape now. It's so, yeah. What do you think of that? It's weird to me. I like to be in a room. I know. I like to get feedback. One of my big tricks with casting directors is to say, is to ask them,

question before I start. Right. And then that way, if I don't do it, great. Um, maybe they'll think it's because they gave me better. Right. Yeah, you're in a conversation with them. Yeah, we're in a conversation, right? Because then they'll say, you know what, actually, could you do it again? But do it this way. And I'm like, oh, sure. And then you get a chance to adjust, but you don't get to do that on tape. Oh, it's the worst. Yeah. I don't even know how to write a chapter about that. Yeah. About on tape auditioning. I think I have to ask some actors who are doing it now, like, what's your best advice? Yeah, I know.

We were just talking on my radio show that Tom Holland for Spider-Man. Mm-hmm. Did he have to put himself on tape? Yeah. And another actor, I was probably like the beginning stages of it. And another actor, they were on a film together, doing something together, and the other actor coached him and, like, used, you know, they worked together for him to put this tape together.

and it was really like unique and he did like a flip and they did something. But I mean, just thinking about that of having another actor and like you really are working at it and doing it. And then I think of myself when no one's around to read and you just have your laptop open. Yes. And you're just doing your side of the lines. It's like it's too like I never know what people are doing. I know. Like some people are late.

I remember hearing Josh Brolin like really lit for, and no country of old men, like he really, like, lit the hell out of it and, like, was professional. And then there's other people that are just, you know, get cast just doing it, like, in their garage. And, like, you know what I mean? Like, that whole thing, there's no, there's no, like, baseline. No, there's, like, this whole production value that some people do.

Or, like, some people will do, like, tricks where they'll be like, oh, hey. And you're like, oh, am I, should I be doing that? Right, exactly. Should I be, like, entering frame? Or like some people will be like, oh, I trip into the, they'll accidentally trip to get the attention of the people watching the tapes. I'm like, should I be tripping? I know. I don't know.

Well, if you can find out and write a book about it, I would read it. I, okay. Because I'm getting, I have no clue what I'm doing with it on. I really, like, was in the shower just this morning going, I don't think I'm going to do another one of those ever. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's too all over the map. I have a crazy story about a self-tape I did.

You do? I'm not going to say what movie. Okay. I didn't get it. You didn't get it? But I... Is it a popular movie? Mm-hmm.

Okay. I did a self-tape for this movie. Uh-huh. And how can I say it so that you'll never guess what the movie is? Okay. This character is meeting her love interest for the first time. Okay. Titanic.

And she's a little quirky. Uh-huh. And I was getting ready to self-tape. And I went and looked at it. in the mirror and I had lipstick on my teeth. And I was like, I'm gonna keep it. I think this lady has lipstick on her teeth.

I really do. Yeah. I find it charming. So I did the whole self-tape with lipstick on my teeth. I didn't get the part. Cut to me watching the movie. No.

No. Yes. Yep. She had lipstick on her teeth? Uh-huh. Really? Yep. Oh.

So, all right. So this is another problem with the on tape thing. Yeah. I never got any feedback. Yeah. Nothing. But they clearly watched it.

They watched it. They watched it while they were making a deal with her already. Probably. Right? It was just a, they're trying to make the deal. And then they put a bunch of people on tape in case they can't close the deal with that person. Yeah. But they took that element.

Mm-hmm. And I even went back to the sides that I had. Yeah. And I read it again because I'm like, did I, did it say she had lipstick on her teeth and I thought it was my idea? Right. No. Is the movie? called lipstick? It's not.

Damn it. This movie you're in now looks really cool. Oh, this movie I'm in now is really cool. I love Green Day. They're just so great. Of course, we all love Green Day. And to see like this like another generation

emerging as a new Green Day and I love in the trailer, the funniest part is your closing line. You headlined the Oh my gosh. Thank you. I improvised that line. I'm really thought of it. I did. It's really funny. It's really good. Yeah, the movie's called Nimrods. It was produced by Green Day. It was written and they produced it. They did. Oh, wow. They did. It was written and directed by my husband, Lee Kirk. And the way this movie came about was really wild, which is that my husband had done a film

with Billy Joe Armstrong from Green Day many years ago where Billy Joe was the star of a comedy. Was he already Billy Joe? I was. Wow. And he had gotten a hold of the script that my husband had written, and he really liked it. And he said, I'd like to do it. I'd like to act. And he said, I'm a really hard worker, and I'll come over and I'll work with you on it. And true to his word, he is a really hard worker. And I can't tell you what it's like. I was very pregnant with my daughter. I can't tell you. I will never forget the doorbell ringing, me answering the door. And Billy Joe Armstrong is standing there. ready to work on the scenes. Right. And I read opposite him as my husband, very pregnant. I'm reading opposite Billy Joe Armstrong. And I'm like, I can't believe Billy Dorhamford in my house.

And I'm like pretending like it's normal. Yeah. And that happened several times. Uh-huh. And through the course of making that film, Ordinary World, Lee and Billy Joe became buddies. Okay. So cut to a few years ago, Billy Joe called Lee and said, I wanted to do. do a Green Day movie. He's like, I want it to be filled with Green Day music, but I don't want it

to be about us. But I have this idea of like some teenagers who are on the road and they're trying to get to a New Year's Eve concert. Right. A Green Day concert on New Year's Eve. That's great. So Lee said, all right, I want to talk to you and Trey Kuhl and Mike. I want to talk to you guys and I want to hear all your stories pre-Dukee. Tell me everything that happened to you on the road pre-duke. That's great. And then he weaved that into the tail of these three teenagers and a punk band who get pranked into thinking they're opening for Green Day on New Year's Eve.

It's a prank? It's a prank. Oh, I was rooting for them. It's a prank. Yes, it is. An elaborate prank. Right. But they think their lives are going to change, you know?

I thought their lives are going to change, too. I know. But what's so cool about it. about this movie is it's about teenagers and it's certainly for teenagers, but it's also for us. Yeah. Because it completely captures that nostalgia of that time in your life when everything is still possible. Yeah.

And you're just going for it. You can do or be anything. Yeah. You're not even thinking about failure or success. You're just going. And you have the delusion of a teenager. but the thing that's not delusional about it is that Green Day has done that. Green Day has asked bands to open for them suddenly.

Yeah. So there's like, you know. No, it's not far-fetched. It's not far-fetched. No. So they don't know. Oh, and just those, I mean, I've just caught these glimpses. And it's so authentic.

Just the way one of the band members is talking with one of his friends, a girlfriend. Yeah. And like what we're going to end. And like you can just see the, I know, holy shit, this is happening. Yeah. I don't know why it's happening, but I think it's happening. Yeah. Like just that those.

Oh, that's great. It's a really beautiful movie. And it's, it's great. Yeah. It reminds me of those movies from the 80s and 90s that I grew up on. Yeah. I feel like they're coming back. I feel like they are.

I feel like they're starting to, you can feel it. And I think, and I think also it's going to be driven a lot by young filmmakers. and people are just, they just want to tell stories and make stuff. And young people are going to the movies again. I know. In the theaters. I went to The Odyssey on Friday. And when I came out, the place was packed.

Oh, yeah. It was so great. I'm surprised you got a ticket. I know. It was a week out. Yeah. It was a week out. But just coming out into the lobby and just feeling that buzz of it all.

Yeah. You know, someone told me or I read during COVID that it's going to take 10 years for us to fully come back. from that experience. And I remember thinking that's insane. They're going to open the doors next week and we're going to be fine. And we're six, seven years. And it's in a lot of ways, not completely back. Yeah.

But in other ways, like the theaters, it's like, it's starting, though. Yeah. Isn't that wild? Yeah. No one wants to talk about that COVID. It's like, it was such, like, you can't, anytime I see an essay about it or anything about it. You can't stomach it.

Like it's just, nobody wants to, but we all went through it. And it was a huge wrecking ball. Yeah. But it's almost like a car accident. It's like you don't want to talk about the car accident. You just want to keep going. I kept a diary during that time. I had read about the people who during World War II in England, they were asked to keep

diaries of their experiences. These were ordinary people who were not part of the military or the government or anything. And they were specifically, oh gosh, it was called something. It was like Operation Something. And they had to turn in diary entries about their everyday life during this time. Right. And they're housed in like this museum now. And I had read about that and I was like, this feels like a time.

And so I'm like, I'm an ordinary person and I'm going to document what it was. And I cracked open some of those diaries recently. and oh yeah they it was like I felt it in my whole body as I was reading it as I like the confusion and the all the things we didn't know I mean I had written things like we got some packages but we left them in the garage for two to three days so I think they're okay to open yeah you know I know and I'm like oh my God yeah I remember that driving to the supermarket and on the phone with my wife like I'm just going to go. What? You're going to go. I'm going to do it. Like I was braveheart or something. Yes. I had like a whole entry of like the first time we got takeout. Yeah. And I'm like, I hope it's okay.

I know. I'm going to tip extra because they're essential workers. Yes. When you saw pictures of like New York empty like the world, London empty. Yes. But it's too much. People don't want to. It's just right. Don't you feel like it's just too much. You can't. What I was thinking about was, and this is sort of beautiful, is you remember when sports came back, but nobody could be there? That's going to make me cry, actually. And so they made a bunch of cutouts of people, and then they put crowd noise in. Mm-hmm. I know. That's beautiful, I know. Just wanted to be together. But it's beautiful. It was beautiful. There were a lot of beautiful moments. All those nurses and everyone hitting the pans and stuff in New York for all the, There was a lot of it.

But it was a thing. It was a big thing. And then children at different ages, what it did to them in their development and losing all that kind of stuff. It was heavy. It was a lot. Yeah. It really was.

And I think things that we won't know fully for a while with how it affected our kids. Yeah, I know. You know? I know. Whenever my kids act weird, I just blame it on COVID. Well, you know, they talk about all those people. the COVID puppies, like all the people who got puppies during COVID and how those dogs aren't very well socialized because they were like never taken on walks or like interacted with other

dogs or anything. And it's like, well, what? I mean, we locked our kids down too for a couple of years or they didn't go to school for, you know, half of this year and half of that year. Yeah, it was weird. Yeah. But it is nice. The theaters are back. Yes. It is nice. And I'm, those movies like just just seeing like Nimrod, like to see that with other people would be so much more fun. It is fun. And all the music in it. It's like, it's a great movie to see. Yeah.

In real life, in a crowd and the music. Oh, it's so good. And even like the Odyssey, like hearing people applaud at the end is just like, ah, that's so much better. My parents are stealing media from some weird box they got from Russia. And my mother was like, oh, you saw the Odyssey? We didn't like it. I'm like, wait, you went to the theater?

And she's like, no. I'm like, you and dad, 80, watched it on your little TV and weren't moved by it. Well, you know what? It serves you right. You're thieves. You're just stealing stuff. How much do you miss Pam? Or did you feel like it ran its course and you were good with it?

I feel complete with it. Yeah. I do. I don't feel the need to open that back up. Yeah. Or revisit that character or that character's story or see where she is now. Yeah. Because, I mean, what a unique thing to be able to take a character, just to take a character and live that life for those years.

Yeah. A special thing. Yeah. But complete. I feel complete with it. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny.

I don't even know if I could be Pam today. Right. You know. Yeah. It's like we, we came. as far as we could. Right. And then I think she went one way and I went one way.

Yeah. You know. Yeah. If Greg Daniels was like, I know you're not going to do TV anymore and you want to be with your kids. But will you just read this? Of course. I mean, yes, of course.

I would. If Greg Daniels asked me to read something or do something. Yeah. Yeah. We had a pretty fun idea for a reunion idea. Oh, yeah. for the office, which was Steve Krell's idea, and I won't share it just because it's his idea to share. Uh-huh.

That would be pretty sweet. I wish I could share. I'll share it with you off mic. Okay. Could happen? I don't think it'll ever happen. Oh, no. But sometimes we sit around and we spitball ideas.

Yeah. But I don't think they're ever going to happen. I think everybody's really happy with how it ended. And I think like when you open it back up again, then you open it up to criticism or like, well, that's not what I thought. Yeah. It's nice to just let it be. Just let it be. I know, because there's been some things that have come back for a little bit, you know, and it's weird.

Yeah. Yeah, it taints the memory, the great memory that everybody had. I think it can. Yeah. What was the successful one that came back? I thought Will and Grace was really successful and it's come back. I really liked their new shows. I was like, wow, it seems like no time has passed.

I thought they had all the chemistry and it was funny. Right. I thought it worked. Yeah. I didn't see it. It was good. I believe you. I believe you.

I believe you. I think it'll be good. So do you ever write stuff? I mean, you've written a book and your husband's a writer and a... No. No? No. No?

No. It's not for me. No? No. directing is not for me, writing's not for me. I've written two books. Yeah. I wrote the acting book because I had to. And then Angela Kinsey roped me into writing a book with her. Yeah. That ultimately, I'm glad I did called The Office BFF's Tales from the Office from two best friends who were there. Right. And we have like 400 of our personal photos in it because we were the only people who would take pictures.

Did you know that Angela and I are the only people who brought our cameras to the first. filming of the pilot of the office that NBC did not even send a photographer. That's how much they believed in the show. Really? So the only photographs from the pilot of the office belong to me and Angela and they're in our book. That's great. But we wrote all about our experience on the office. So in a way, the office BFFs kind of picks up where my book stops. Right, right. But it's very hard. I don't understand how people who take, they can just look at a blank page and bring it to life. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's, but the other side of it is you have, your mind kind of operates that way, even the way you're approaching the character and the way that you're approaching the business, like your life. Like, you have a bit of a writer's mind, it seems. Oh. Yeah. Well, I take that as a compliment. I love writers. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you read? I love reading. You do? Mm-hmm. It's my hobby. What are you reading now? Right now I'm reading, um,

you like it darker by Stephen King. Oh yeah? My book club is reading. Oh. So I'm reading that, but I'm also reading this book called The Wall. It's about a woman who, um,

an invisible wall comes down around the house that she's staying in. And she's the only living person that she can find. Yeah. And she just lives. lives with a cow and a cat and a dog. And it's like the story of her. Right. It's fascinating.

It's really good. Yeah, I heard that's really good. Yeah. That sounds COVID-y. It's a little COVID-y, but you know what's really COVID-y, but just read it anyway is now my favorite book I've ever read, which is Station 11. Really? Have you read Station 11?

No, I'm going to write it down. They made a TV show of it, but don't watch the show. I hate that show. I've never seen it, but I can promise you that. Best book you've ever read. It just took the place of Demon Copperhead. Really? And then Stephen King's book about the person who finds a portal and they go back in time to stop the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

Right. That was my favorite book. And then Demon Copperhead and now Station 11. I don't know the Stephen King one. Oh, it's so good. Yeah? It's like called 11. 22.

There it is. 1122. Have you read it? 1122. Yeah. Yeah. What a brain. Yeah.

Oh. You ever see early pictures of him? No. When he was like writing The Shining in those years. No. A madman. Really? Beard and his eyes. He was just like spitting.

You're like, yep, that guy wrote the Shining. Yeah. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Yeah. That's why he has this whole section in a bookstore. It's just crazy. Yeah.

Did you read all the light we cannot see? I'm reading that now. I think I have not read that book. It's really good. It's good. Yeah. It's really good. I'm in the middle of that now.

Okay. We might need to trade. Yeah. If you're a reader, I love meeting people who are passionate about reading. I'm a slow reader, though. Are you? I always get distracted. Are you an audiobook person ever?

No. Mm-hmm. For a long time, I thought that such a guy thing, I thought that that doesn't count. Like, I'm not really reading it. But all my friends, it counts, right? I feel like it doesn't. It doesn't count. Oh, you think it doesn't count either.

I think it a little bit doesn't count. Oh, you do. I'm with you. Oh, no, now I'm not going to do it. But I also listen to them. You do. Even though I think it doesn't really count. But you're a real reader.

So why doesn't it counts like listening to a podcast or something? It's, I don't know. I just think there's something about, I don't know. You can't sit with it. Yeah. I have some books, like for my book club, I will, I have to, finish it in a month. And so sometimes I have to listen to some of it. Right. And I find for myself, I don't absorb it in the same way when I'm listening to it. I get the story. It keeps going.

But I don't get the writing. Right. Unless I am reading it. And that's what I, that's what you love the most. Do you know what one of my biggest fears in life is? One of my biggest fears in life is that the apocalypse is going to happen. Armageddon, whatever you want to call it, zombies, we don't know. end of times. And I'm going to step on my glasses and I'm never going to be able to read anything again. That was a Twilight Zone. It was?

You don't remember that? No. The original black and white. It's such a nightmare. This guy, all he wants to do is read. All he wants to do is read. And then he, it is the apocalypse. Yes.

Or he's on another planet. It's the apocalypse. It's the apocalypse. And he's so happy because he's only with his books. And now he can read all of his books. And then he steps on his glasses. This is my nightmare. Oh.

There's time now. There's time now. It's brutal. Yeah. It's brutal. That would be hell. That would be hell. And then you can only listen to audiobooks.

I mean, it'll do, but it's not the same. I thought you're going to say my greatest fear is ending up having to read people's audiobooks, be the voice of audiobooks. No, I wouldn't mind that actually. Yeah, you'd be good at that. I'd do it. Yeah. Yeah.

Have you ever explored that? You'd be good at that. I haven't. Yeah. There's this one woman who's like the woman for audiobooks and everybody wants her. Right. And I wish I could remember her name. I'd love to give her a plug.

Yeah. But supposedly any audiobook, if she's the person reading it, you should listen to it. I got to find out who it is. Yeah. I can't see you doing that. I can see being good at that. Maybe I'll do it. Yeah, you should.

So what else? What's next? What are you going to do? It's funny you ask. So my husband and I, we were having this conversation recently where we were saying, like if you divide a life into three acts, we're sort of getting near the end of our second act. The second act of my life has been parenting and podcasting. Yeah. Got a few more years of that. But what's our third act? We're like, what's our third act? When the kids are in college and like, who are we?

What are we? Yeah. And I want to do theater. Yeah. I love theater. I did a play at the Goodman Theater last year. I would love to do plays all the time. But again, that's, it's, you know, very, the kind of actor that I like being, that's the most fun to be.

Yeah. Is when you get completely self-absorbed in your project. And you just eat, sleep, and breathe it. And you think about it all the time. And you care for nothing. the project. Yeah. But that is not compatible with the kind of parenting I like to do, which is to be absorbed in my family life. The young one is 12? 12. Yeah. So, and so for that project, I did go to Chicago and I lived in Chicago for three months and they would come to visit me.

Uh-huh. And it was this really cool experience. That's great. And it was really, really great, but, like, I don't feel like it's something I can do all the time. Not yet. Not yet. Right. But when they go to college, I feel like that's my moment to go back to that kind of, like, very self-absorbed actory, acty work. That's so great.

Oh, there's nothing more special. It's the best. It's the best. To be in a rehearsal room with theater nerds nerding out on dialogue and intentions. Yeah. But what do you think he was like when he was like younger? Right. When did they meet, do you think?

Yeah. And it's not about the money. It's like it's about the project. Yeah. I remember my friend's mom told me early on that the best award show is the Tony's. It's the best. Because it's people that are just giving their life for these projects. And they just mean so much more.

And she's right. Yeah. That'd be cool. Your kids drop you off at college off at your play and then they go to school. Then you meet up on Thanksgiving. Yeah. That's the dream. Oh, that would be great.

So I hope that's what's next. Yeah, well, that would be, that would be great. And, you know, if you can knock out a couple of audiobooks, I'll try them. I'm not going to try an audiobook until you're the voice of it. Okay. All right. Deal. All right, good.

I'll let you know. But in the meantime, I hope I can do, you know, I hope there's some acting roles for me here and there that are creative and, you know, great parts. Yeah. and that I can do while I'm still in act two. Yeah, yeah, coming to the end of act two. End of act two. Yeah, I'm in act three, too. That's my daughter over there.

This is your daughter? Yeah, that's my younger one. Oh my gosh! Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. She did my lip. Yeah, she's good at lips.

And yeah, it is an interesting time, but it's a fun time. It's exciting. Like, we're the same thing. We're seeing it on the horizon. Yeah. It's like, what are we going to do? My wife likes a lot of activities. And I think the third act is going to be my wife planning a lot of activities and me trying to get out of them.

That has been my parents' third act. Same. Yeah. Yes. My mom planning lots of trips and dinners. Yeah. And your dad, like, what do we have tonight? Yeah, my dad being like, I just really wanted to watch.

Yeah, the game. Yeah. Yellowstone. Right. I'm like, well, I'm glad that you're back on bread. If you need starter, I can get you starter. Do you mean it? Yeah, for real.

Because I actually want to get back to baking bread again. I was going to start a starter. I've got a fig tree and it's exploding with figs. Oh, nice. And I was like, I want to make a fig jam and I want to make a sourdough. Oh, that'd be nice. Yeah. Well, I have starter.

I can get it to you. I'll take it. All right. And I mean it. It's a deal. Okay. And let me know how the bread is. I can't wait.

I mean, it's not going to be the best one. Why? Because the flour It's not fancy flour I get it from Central Milling which is really great flour But I kind of lost track of which flour was in which bin So I'm kind of free style Do you think it makes a difference?

I can't tell if my bread tasted all that much better When I used the fancy flour versus just flour from the grocery store Yeah no I don't think it makes a different I don't think it makes a ton of difference I think it's the mix of the flowers that makes the difference, right? How much wheat, how much simulina, how much all-purpose, like that combo. What is the combo of this?

This is just a wheat flour and an all-purpose flower. That's my favorite. From Central Milling, yeah. That's my favorite mix. I always found most successful with that. Rub some figs on it. All right, I will. Thanks for being here.

This was really nice. Thank you for having me. You've been on my mind since I, well, of course, watching you just as a fan, but knowing that you were into bread. You've been on my mind during this whole podcast. So it's really special that you came. I'm really happy that I did. Yeah.

We got it, kids.