Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 44 - Ronny Chieng

Episode Date: March 9, 2021

We are off to Malaysia with the hilarious Ronny Chieng and grab a Quick Bite and some Spaghetti Carbonara tips from Matteo Lane!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus It's time for Breaking Red with Papa Hey! Don't you know? Hey, it's how we go. Hey, it's time for Breaking Bread with Papa. Hey, don't you know? Hey, it's also a show. Hey!

Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. I am Tom Papa, your host for the show, for your life. I hope you're doing well. It feels like things are getting better, doesn't it? It feels like we are slowly crawling out of the quagmire. I can't believe we're at, one year. We're at one year since we started going inside, closing our windows, and staying away from everybody and everything. Do you remember how crazy it was in the very beginning? It was crazy.

You forget how we just got used to it. But in the beginning, it was like, can I go to the food store? Can I do anything? That was my big tell. It was, that was my monitor, was going to get supplies, going to the supermarket, because I like to go almost every day and get the things that I'm going to make. And when it went from that toilet paper craze, I'm sure you remember that, and then everything was gone, and then there were no bagel bites. That was a big thing for our family. There were no frozen bagel bites left. Everybody was panicking. And then, of course, you had to be in lines. Well, let's not go through the whole thing. We all know. We've all lived it. But it feels like it's getting better. I haven't stood in line for a supermarkets. market in a long time. I go and I get my supplies, easy peasy, dreamy, dreamy. Oh, and I got my first dose of

the vaccine, which is so exciting. My wife is a teacher, and she got the vaccine. She was all signed up, and then they had to open up an extra little vial for this older woman who was there and very angry that she was at the wrong CVS, and they decided, let's open it up. But once they open it up at the end of the day, they had to give it away to a couple of other people and guess who was there? Yes, sore arm, but feeling kind of invincible at the same time. Oh, so exciting. We have a great show for you today. We've got the great Ronnie Chang, very funny comedian.

I love him. He's really, he's from The Daily Show. He's got this amazing special on Netflix, stand-up special. He's so good. and we're going to sit down and break bread and talk about, he comes from Malaysia and he kind of bounced back and forth. And we're going to talk about all things, Asian food and comedy and just have a great time. He's very funny, very thoughtful.

And we got to share a great cigar when we first met at the Soho Cigar Bar in New York City. And that was our first introduction. and we sat there like gentlemen, and we were very excited. And I'm very excited for his success. He's really kicking butt right now. And as you know, from listening to this podcast early on, I don't know my way around the Asian food. I'm getting a little better.

I've gotten some, I've made some strides, but, you know, it's just in my mind of what I'm supposed to make, some tofu and broccoli. And I don't know. Ronnie's great. He'll educate me. Then we are going to grab a quick bite with Mateo Lane. Mateo Lane coming back to the program because I, once again, I got some guanchale from the deli here in Los Angeles. And guanchale, as you know, is pork. It's from the cheek. And it is the primary ingredient in spaghetti carbonara, which is a delicious dish, which I have not, it's, I'm making too much of it. I'm, it's kind of like Caccio Pepe, which is cheese and pepper.

And it's, it's not that complicated of a dish, but you can make it complicated. It's one of those things, if you can do it, well, one of those simple little things, you will be so happy because it's going to be so great. And if you overthink it and you don't have experience with it, you can mess it up. Well, yesterday I messed it up. it's a very simple dish. It's you take, you take some egg yolks and some pecorino cheese. You mix that together in a bowl, right? You're making this creamy kind of sauce that is going to be added to the spaghetti. And the problem is temperature. If you, okay, so you make the guanchale.

You make the guanchale, it's like frying up bacon. Put it on the side. And then I'm using the pan. And you take a little pasta water, you take your pasta, al dente, you put it into the pan, you mix it up, and then you throw in your cheese mixture. And this is where I always end up in trouble. I'm trying to, with my Italian flare, throw it in there, mix it up, get it nice and creamy, and you're basically making this kind of mac and cheese with this egg yolk and and pecorino cheese mixture. And you're mixing it together, but if it's, if it's a little hot, excuse the alarm outside.

If it's a little hot, the eggs cook too quickly. And, you know, you don't want to be eating raw eggs, but you also don't want them cooked like scrambled eggs. That's not, if you go to a nice Italian restaurant, you ask for spaghetti carbonara, it's going to come out. It's going to be this creamy thing with this guanchale bacon, mixed in, a lot of crushed pepper, some salt. It's, it's this nice balance. It does not look like

you've got some fried eggs mushed up in the pasta, which is what I did again yesterday. So we're going to get a quick bite. We're going to call my buddy Mateo Lane. He is in New York. And I sent him pictures of it last night. And I decided, you know what, let me, let's make this let's make the struggle, let's make the struggle public. There's no shame and failure. And you guys can learn also. And I look, I also truly, highly recommend you take one of these dishes, Caccio Pepe or spaghetti carbonara.

And those are, I would practice those. Figure those out because they are cheesy, fun home runs. Everyone in your life will love you if you can nail one of these dishes. If you nail both, then forget it, you will be a, you will be hero for all times. And then a quick little side note, before we get going with Ronnie, so I make this pasta, it's not great, but it was good. And it was just all great ingredients. And then I had a little, I had a little broccoli on the sign, very nice.

I woke up today and did not feel that great. And, you know, you just feel like a little sluggish or whatever. I'm like, what is it? What? What? Why? Why? I didn't get drunk.

I didn't. Why? And I hate to say it, but I had some Girl Scout cookies last night. I had Girl Scout cookies that my, uh, I always order a bunch from my friends whose daughters sells them and, you know, they're not that expensive. You grab a whole bunch and make her happy and all for it. for supporting the Girl Scouts. They're not good cookies. They taste okay. The thin mince are amazing. The Samoa's are pretty good. The tag along's meh. But you look at the ingredients.

This is why I felt sick. Now look, if we are going to support you, Girl Scouts, and we really want to, it's a great tradition. We love it. But if McDonald's can change, if McDonald's can change from their meat practices and they're trashy over-processed. If McDonald's can do it, the Girl Scouts can. Make us a better cookie. Same stuff, same ingredients. It's going to be better. They taste, they don't taste like you're enjoying something wholesome.

And that's what the Girl Scouts are. Wholesome. They're chemically. and of course if you have my brain, you're not eating one, you're eating all of them before you even realize that they're bad. And you eat a whole bunch of them, which may be part of the problem, yes, but if I eat a bunch of homemade chocolate chip cookies, I'll feel a little sugar lag the next day, but I'm not going to feel like garbage. And today I felt like garbage. And it's because there's all these chemicals and all this crap in these cookies. So Girl Scouts, this is a plea for

from someone who got their daughters to at least be a brownie for a little while before they quit. Step up your game. Give us something nice. Give us something good. We're done with all the processed garbage. This is not a way to live a good life. And we want the Girl Scouts to be a good part of life. And look, I could buy them and then just give them away to the neighbors and spread them around.

But I got to say, we get them. They sit in the cabinet. You know, I've got kids. I've got people. I've got people visiting. They're not snatched up. They're not snatched up. And the good sign, as you know, of anything well made and delicious, they don't stick around very long.

So Girl Scouts, please, please, I'll make you some Carbonara and you fix your cookies. All right, let's start the show. Let's break bread and welcome Ronnie Chang to the program. He's so damn funny. We have a great conversation, and then we will call New York City and grab a quick bite and some lessons from the great Mateo Lane. You guys are the best. Oh, this program is brought to you by me. I would like you to go to tompapa.com or rushticks.com. I am doing a live streaming show on March 27th. I will be doing. stand-up comedy, streaming to your home on March 27th, 9 p.m. East, 6 p.m. West. It's going to be a great show. I really feel like it's the kickoff to getting back into stand-up routine. This is going to be a great

all-new material, lots of fun. Then we're going to hang afterwards. We're going to mix martinis. We're going to hang out. We're going to open up the cameras and we'll be able to talk and hang. Martini is my drink of choice. You could bring whatever you would like. And we're going to have a great time. It's going to be a great show. March 27th. Stand up for about an hour.

Then we're going to hang out at the hang afterwards. And this feels to me like the beginning. Because then April, I'm going to Omaha, Nebraska, and then Portland. and there's certain little things starting up. And I feel like this is kind of the kickoff. And Frank will be there. Frank the Pug will be my opening act. So go to tompapa.com and rushticks.com.

And again, thank you for supporting this podcast and liking it and subscribing. You guys are the best. And I hope you enjoy it. I'm going to get back into the studio too. I think next week I might bring back Kira Soltanovich and go back to our set because things are a little safer here. we'll do a rapid test and we can sit and really break bread again, which was our initial intent. A year, guys, a year.

All right, you're the best. Enjoy the program. Enjoy Ronnie Chang. Good to see you, my friend. Yeah, good to see you. Thanks having me on. Yeah, this is great. You are in Hawaii, I hear.

Yeah, yeah. In Hawaii, best place in America right now. God, it's so great. You've had a pretty great global pandemic. I have just by sheer luck managed to be out of mainland America when things got, every time things get peak crazy, I just happen to be out of America. So yes, I've had a very lucky run. I feel like I've been playing Monopoly and you keep rolling past.

other people's properties. I feel like I've had that role like five times in a row now where I haven't landed on anyone's hotel. It's amazing. Yeah, because in the beginning, you were in Australia, right? Yeah, I happened to be Australia for a two-week job that turned into literally five months. And that was peak pandemic, March 2020.

So when I got down to Australia, a few days after I landed, the whole world shut down. Amazing. And at first, were you like, oh, no, I'm stuck in a hotel? I'm in exile. Or were you like, this might work out good for me? I had a feeling it worked out good because Australia is pretty good with healthcare and they're an island. So it's kind of easy to close the borders. They also are Australians, I think, at that core, actually very sensible people. the healthcare system makes sense. So I was quite confident. But if you can remember in March 2020, I don't know how you felt,

but that was like a two week or at least one week in March 2020 when like we didn't know what could happen. We didn't know if there was a future because you didn't know for that one week. You didn't know whether this was like something where you leave your house and you could die just breathing the air. You know, there was like that peak uncertainty in March. Yeah.

So, yeah, so that one week in March was very much like, oh, what is happening? Are we going to be okay? And then after a week, it became like, oh, okay, okay, I think you'll be okay. Yeah. It'll be bad, but it's true. It's raining here in L.A. today. And it was raining in the beginning, during those scary weeks, we had just by coincidence, this rainy dark period. So it was rainy and dark, which is so unlike L.A. and we were stuck inside, not knowing, not knowing. if we were safe or not. And I was thinking about that this morning. It was like, man, people forget, like, the human brain is pretty brilliant at that. Like, you don't hang on to panic very long. Like, but we were like nervously playing puzzles with our kids, like, it's going to be okay.

It's going to be all right. And is that where your special title came from? You're doing great. It was actually before the pandemic, but it is that attitude. But you decided that before the pandemic. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Because just reading, just reading on Netflix special title was like very calming. Especially the time when it came out, it was like, yeah, you're doing great. It's fine. I was just like, oh, yeah, that's it. I didn't know whether you, I didn't know whether you, you know, purposely, that was highly intentional. Obviously, it's intentional, but like, with regards to the pandemic, you know. No, and it took on a new meaning with the pandemic. Right.

And my book is, you're doing great. and other reasons to stay alive. And that really changed everything. And people still to this day send me messages every day. Like, it was almost like it was self-help more than it was comedy. They were like, thank you for being my therapist. Yeah, but don't you think that's like the best comedy books are that kind of thing where it's obviously it's not just a joke book, right?

because that's like another genre. Like if you, if a comic writes a book, there should be an element of self-help in there, right? Otherwise, it's, that's how I, that's the stuff I like. Like, I always like a little hope thrown in. You know what I mean? Like there was, I always loved George Carlin. And then there was this one special where he didn't give you any hope at the end. It was, it was, it was so dark the whole way.

And I was like, No, no, you got to give me something. You got to make me feel like it's going to be all right. Right, right. Yeah. Right. But you're a special. I can't, I can't open up my laptop without hearing about another special that you're going to be doing.

I think, I think you're up to, I think Netflix has announced 10 new specials by you. Yeah, I'm hoping to keep it going. Yeah, they're very lucky that they wanted to work with me. And I'm glad the first one was well received enough. And yeah, looking to do, I think, two more specials, hopefully more, but two more with Netflix. And one is like a docu series. Oh, cool. One off special, yeah.

So I got lucky with... Nice. I'm lucky they believe in me. Yeah, oh, it's well-deserved. That special was so good, so tight. And it felt to me, I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, just being your friend from the outside. It seemed like it was almost like in two waves. Like it seemed like it came out and was really popular,

but it seemed like it kicked into another gear at a certain point. Was that right? You mean in pop culture? Like in the same guy? Yeah, just the culture. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe. But my play with stand-up has,

and tell me if you agree with this definition, it's always kind of old school, like, by my standards, old school, like, I wanted to make something timeless that had like a long tail because all the specials I liked, I discovered them maybe at quickest like five years after they were made. You know, the soonest when I discovered all my, all my comedy heroes, you know, it was like sometimes in some cases decades after they made them. And they were still like, there was this element about them that was very timeless and classic, even though they were often discussing contemporary issues. So that was kind of my goal for it, goal.

and I trusted the Netflix algorithm to perpetuate it hopefully. And so meaning I wasn't too worried about the initial launch that boost, but I was hoping that word of mouth would spread it. So I'm glad you feel that way. It's very hard for me to judge that whether or not is getting a second life. But I certainly intended for that to be the case. I think that's what separates us from like no offense, like social media only community.

who are just focused on social media, where everything's very now and quick and, you know, 10 seconds, one minute and then, you know, whereas I feel like great comedy is kind of like jazz and it kind of stands the test of time and it lasts a bit longer, you know, and it takes longer to make and go crazy. Yeah, it takes a lot of thought. It takes a lot of thought because you're not just going for a reaction. You're actually thinking about this thing is I remember Lily Tomlin had talked about that way before I was a comedian.

and I read that she liked to do things that would last for 30 years. That's why she stayed away from, you know, cultural, pop political moments that would be dated, you know, within six months. But you do a good job because you have this, you have a cultural bent on things and a political mind, which you're so good on The Daily Show with also. And to combine that sentiment with stuff that is more evergreen, that's well crafted. Yeah, no, thanks a lot. I feel like I have the benefit of also no one,

no one, no one's kind of chewed through this material from a Chinese point of view in America. So I kind of, in some ways, I almost feel like I got free reign, you know, to kind of discuss stuff. So I'm not,

I don't have to worry about anyone else having put it through the same lens because there is no, I mean, no one. And I mean, we shouldn't think that way anyway because all our lenses are different regardless of race. But, you know, in my case... No, but I was very tempted when I started to take it through a Chinese lens.

Well, you should have... Yeah, you should have ran with it. I just ran out so quickly. The only Chinese I knew was Chinatown in New York coming in from New Jersey. And I don't even... Man, it's funny you mentioned Lily Tomlin because I was walking around New York City before the pandemic. And I remember I would always... I always frequent the vinyl.

record, the guys who sell vignals on the street. And I'm the guy who like, I want to like vinyl more than I actually do. Like, I don't have a record player. I, you know, I can't stand the thought of like trying to store all this stuff, especially in a New York apartment. But it's just just like something I want to be that guy who likes it. And so I always flip through the comedy section of the vinyl just to see, you know, just to see what's going on.

And, and man, I found a Lily Tomlin record. And I actually bought it. And I was thinking, how crazy is it that Lily Tomlin has been around long enough to have a vinyl of her doing comedy bits? Oh, man. Man, and I went to go listen to it. Actually, ironically, this is the world we live in, right? I bought the vinyl and I listened to it on Apple Music digitally because I don't have a vinyl player. Yeah, and just like seeing it and her style and, you know, stuff still holds up and it's still.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it'll be, I don't know if it's trippy or insulting to like, it'll be so crazy to get her assigned the vinyl. Like, how long have you been around that? Oh, 100%. 100%. Because people don't really know that, this younger generation doesn't really know that about her. But I was, my mother was listening to those albums when I was a kid.

And they would just put it on and the whole, all these adults just sitting around the living, just crying, laughing, imitating her, doing her, doing the operator and stuff. Yeah. And it was really, really good stuff. It's ahead of his time now. But at the time, it must have been even more ahead of his time. She's a woman by herself on stage. Yeah. She has the floor.

Then you look at the back of the vinyl sleeve and it says, you know, recorded at Ice House, L.A., which is still going on. Yeah. It's crazy that, you know, like, like that. I actually, I'm not sure if Ice House is going like today, today. But as recently as before the pandemic, it was still going strong, you know. Jeff Stilson would tell me to go and, you know, Ice House is the best room in L.A. right now, you know, it's still going. And it's so weird. You're in these rooms in America and they have these connection to these, you know, vinyl records of comedy heroes. Anyway, that's honestly why I moved to America to do comedy. It's like to just get that connection to people, you know.

Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask. So how old were you when you came over? I was 30. You were 30. Yeah, yeah. I came up 2015, yeah. Wow. So how were you exposed to comedy when you were? Were you in China or Malaysia?

I was in Malaysia, in Singapore, and then I started doing stand-up comedy in Australia. So when did you first get turned on to comedy? I think it was, so what happened was my parents went to Manchester, New Hampshire in the late 80s, and they went to college very late in life, so they had two kids in Malaysia. and then they went to college in America. So I actually went with them. I joined them after about a year when they were in America. I joined them.

I was about three years old. And the reason I don't start with that story is because we actually went back to Malaysia. After they finished university, we didn't stay. We went back to Malaysia. But when I was in America in the late 80s, you know, early 90s, man, they were watching, yeah, they were watching what was on TV at the time, you know, Seinfeld was on. And you would see him come on and do bits at the end of the show. And I was like, what is this?

You know, what's doing to stay there doing bits at the end? And I remember telling my mom, like, hey, I want to try that sometime. And my mom was like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah, that's good. And then I didn't do anything about it for literally 20 years. Yeah. And then I started doing stand-up in Australia. Yeah.

But that was the first time I ever saw someone on stage just making jokes and, and, you know, making people laugh and and it was very i didn't know at the time but it's very acoustic right there was no special effects it's just him and this microphone and he's in this dark room and he's a guy on tv but yet he's in this small dark room trying to make people laugh you know and there's something like oh there's something here that it seems pretty special you know but anyway did you feel before you watched it that you were that you were funny did you feel like you had funny in you and i don't I think so. No?

Yeah, I don't think so. And was there anything in Malaysia that spoke close to comedy? No, I mean, we have our own, you know, Singapore and Malaysia had its own comedy, but it's a very different style, you know. It's almost, it's almost pantomime, almost like sketch base, right? Definitely not truth to power. not, you know, unfiltered describing reality. Like that style really wasn't a thing in Singapore and Malaysia. And so, no, we didn't really have it.

Yeah, but again, in Singapore, when I was growing up in Singapore, you would watch Just for Labs. They would air it on TV and you see all these comics on Just for Labs, you know. And then you'd be like, man, there's something here as well. These guys are just standing on stage and making jokes. And they weren't necessarily edgy. Right? They were just guys making jokes and stuff like that. I'm like, oh, that's pretty cool.

You know, that's something there. And also seems so, it seems naively so accessible because it's just a guy in a microphone and you don't need to, you know, plan out anything else. You just, so, yeah, that was kind of how I was getting. I was getting the bug from that, I think. Yeah, yeah. Can you please describe Malaysia for me? Because I have this very, I've never traveled to Asia.

I have this vague, in my brain, you know how you always see the maps or you see the globe and I know it's over this side of the globe. And I always see it like Philippines, like there's like big China and then all these little broken islands. And I know I should go to Japan. I should go to Thailand. But to me it's all one.

It really is because I've never been able to see it. You're actually describing the way I always, describe Americans describing Southeast Asia. So I'm glad I'm actually spot on with that because for me, I feel like, yeah, I feel like Southeast Asia is such a black hole for Americans because there's no context. The fact that there's multiple countries there is already, you know, crazy to most Americans. And I mean, I make this point in my special that like I don't blame America for not knowing it because it's on the other side of the planet, you know?

So why would you know that area? But yeah, so yeah, there's a bunch of different countries there. And in Southeast Asia, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Laos, they're all Vietnam. And we're all kind of in close proximity. And Malaysia, honestly, it's kind of like if Hawaii was not as well run as Hawaii. If things were a little bit shabbier than Hawaii, that's what Malaysia's like in terms of, oh, and it's harder. It's humid like Florida.

But the vegetation is like Hawaii. In fact, Hawaii is so much like Singapore and Malaysia, some parts that if you take a photo of Hawaii, like Oahu, it looks like Singapore. Like you couldn't even tell a difference. Oh, really? But you would love it, man. You should go. You would love it. Oh, I totally would love it.

I would love it. I really, and you know what, it's very similar to when. I grew up thinking about the Middle East. And I'd never been to the Middle East and I just had this vague paint portrait in my head. And once I traveled there and went to Dubai and Beirut, it was, it just became one of my favorite destinations. It was like there was so much to it. Now it had context. And I feel like that's the thing with Asia. But do I start with Malaysia is the question. No, don't start with Malaysia. Start with Singapore. Singapore is like the gateway. Yeah, it's easier, it'll ease your way into it.

Everyone that speaks English, it's safe. And then I think when you're done with Singapore, then you go to the wild side, which is Malaysia. Yeah. Once I'm on solid ground and I'm not scared anymore. Yeah, once you're not scared anymore, and you go, but man, they have gigs there. And the gigs are pretty good, you know, and I always love how the US comics go there now and they're always worried, like, are they going to get it?

do they have Catholics here? Are there traffic lights? Yeah, yeah, they have Catholics. They have traffic lights. They have, you know, everything. They have iPhones. Like every, you're, and like, I guess this is the question you were getting at earlier, which was like, how do you get American pop culture in Asia?

And we get it, man. It's one of the biggest exports in America is American pop culture. So we get all that stuff. We see it all the time. And it's, you know, we get it. Yeah, we're down. Yeah. Yeah, you should go just for, I keep telling you to go as though you don't want to.

But you should go. No, I do want to. I do want to. I really do. But I feel like maybe I should go with you. Oh, yeah, yeah. That would be a lot more fun, I think. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So tell me, tell me when you're growing up in Malaysia. Was your mom or dad, were they good cooks? Wow, it's interesting to go for that. I didn't know. I thought my mom was a great cook until I started, until I moved for university. And I was like, oh, until I left the house. Yeah, yeah. And then I'm like, oh, this was what I've been doing. So sorry, mom, but yeah, that's kind of what happened. But, but, you know, it's a high standard of food in Malaysia. Honestly, like, the best part of Malaysia and Singapore is the food. You know, so it's such a, it's such a, it's

such a melting part of cultures. I know, I know everyone always says that about everywhere, you know, but it genuinely, the cuisine in Malaysia is like Chinese people mixed with Malay people, mixed with Indian people, and the flavor can be replicated. And every day, you know, I've been lucky to film some stuff in Malaysia with like, like, Americans. And it's like, guys, stop eating at Wendy's. Like, you're wasting your fucking calories, you know, go eat this. You can't get this stuff anywhere else. It's not even that exotic. It's like, you know, chicken with noodles. But it's like the best version of that. that, you know, so. Yeah, that was, that's what I was going to ask. I was thinking about that.

Like, do you, sometimes, you know, you, you're part of a culture and you just eat it home all the time. And then once you leave the house, you kind of just start eating whatever's out there. And you're like, oh, I'll get to Italian food again. Look at everything that's out here. But if, it sounds like you, you, you really appreciated it even after you left. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate it. What's like a, what's like an epic? What's like your favorite? What's your favorite Malaysian dish? Oh, man.

I'm going to say words, but it won't mean anything to anyone. But, oh, yeah. You can't describe it. Yeah, Taco with Y'all is killer. You can't get that flavor anywhere else. That's like walk fried noodles. The wontan meat in Malaysia is killer. I mean, something they base chicken rice is killer.

I really like the Malay desserts. Gway, we call it like quays. Dude, it doesn't. What's quay? Yeah, it's like this. like steamed cake. It's, man, I guess it's like jello, but not really. It's like pudding.

It's closer to pudding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right. But no, there's no context for describing this to Americans because you, you can't and get them to eat like, you know, they go to Chinese restaurants and they order cashew chicken. Like, we're already at, we're still at like one plus one equals two level of Chinese food.

Like we can't, we can't talk about advanced calculus here, you know? Like, it's just too hard. Like the best food, there's no English name for it. Right, right. Again, yeah, there's no. Yeah, that's how I always feel whenever I roll into an Asian place. It's Thai food or whatever. And I'm like, I want to so badly.

It's like looking at a wine list. It's looking at a wine list and not knowing wine. You're like, I know there's gold in here, but I have, someone get over here and help me. You actually make a good point. And that's actually maybe a good idea. Having an Asian friend introduced food to you could be a content podcast idea because I brought, you know, Roy Wood Jr. Saw the Earth, Roy Wood Jr., down to earth guy, super open-minded, you know, comes from Alabama but has traveled the world. And I brought him, one day I just said, Roy, oh, I remember, we were sitting in a daily show office and he actually out loud, out of nowhere.

He just goes, you know what, man, I'm done with food. I've tried every single food. Nothing impressed me. I've had it. I've had it all. And then I was like, what? Have you tried anything from Southeast Asia? Like not even a country, just the region of Southeast Asia.

And then he just was like, okay, no. And I was like, okay, you got to come. You got to come like tomorrow. We're going. And so I brought him to like a Vietnamese restaurant in New York. It's called Hanoi House. You'll love it. It's very modern take on.

Vietnamese food and we ate rice paper rolls from Vietnam where they wrap like lettuce and meat and into a rice paper thing and he ate it and he was like and you know very unusual flavors for this black guy from Alabama and he was like

yeah it's good it's good and the next day I asked him like like just give it to me straight did you like it he's like yeah I did like it and what was crazy was that after eating the food I didn't feel sick and I was like yeah you're not supposed to feel sick after you eat. This guy's been feeling sick after every meal for for almost 40 years now.

Can you imagine eating every meal and thinking is normal to feel like crab? Yes. And that's my problem. That's my problem with American-style Chinese food. I eat American-style Chinese food and I, you know, fried whatever. And then there's so much sodium and the next day I'm all puffy and I don't feel right. And I know I ordered the wrong thing. I love the idea. It's almost like, it's almost, it's like an Asian food sommelier. Like, you come up and guide them through the wine, unless you guide them through the menu.

100%. I think we need that. I think that would bridge a lot of cultures, for real. And it's an open secret that the Chinese restaurants, they've got two menus, one for the least less adventurous Americans, and then one for the people who know what the hell they're doing, you know. And it's not racial. They have two menus because they know that the American Americans, hardcore Americans,

want a certain thing. And so they're not doing it on purpose. They're just like, oh, you have to give the people what they want. But then when people who walk in who know what it's supposed to taste like, we got this too, you know. So they got two menus, man. And I'm just saying there's stuff on the other menu that is probably better and it's, you know, it's not crazy. It's just meat and carbs, but it's done in a different way, you know. Right, exactly.

Yeah. It's so funny. Sometimes you bring friends out and they get so scared and it's like, yo, it's literally chicken and rice. It's chicken and rice. That's all it. It's just a different way. Yeah. It's so funny though.

I mean, that's what's, that's what's exciting about you and comedy right now, actually, is that it is like it is like it is like you were saying before. It was like it wasn't going through this, no one had gone through this lens before. And it's like there just people are so hung up. to see things through other people's eyes. They really want, I think they do crave understanding and knowing and finding the good stuff. And your stand-up is kind of like this great way to kind of bridge those two cultures. Oh, yeah, thanks. Yeah, I appreciate it.

Yeah, this is the only way I know how to do it. So I couldn't, I'm glad that, you know, people like it. I did want to ask you, like, because one of me, my favorite things to watch to get me hyped up on doing stand-up comedy is Jerry Seinfeld's comedian documentary, which you make a small appearance in. And I just wanted to ask you as someone who was in it and was there before it was made and thereafter it's made. You know, I'm not saying it's some kind of pop culture-changing moment, but I'm just asking like, like, if you could give me some, if you could tell me some context as to when that thing was.

was being filmed, you know, like, what was New York comedy scene like at that time? You know, was it like, was it booming or was it, you know? It was, it was starting to boom. It was, it was booming in a way. Like it wasn't, there wasn't the Netflix of it all. There wasn't that, uh, the YouTube of it was just kind of like starting. It was still, you had to go out and see it live and you had to get limited specials on things.

So, but the scene was very creative. You know, there was an alternative scene going. the club scene going. And that's like when I started. And having him come around, I had just gotten into the cellar. The personal point of view of it was I started becoming friendly with him and following him around and trying to just soak up everything I could to learn from him. And he took a liking to me. And I was just like, I wasn't going to let go. I was like, all right, I'm sticking around. So when they started doing the documentary, you know, they were looking for a young guy to follow. And, you know, while they were following him around. And I'm like, well, they'll probably

going to put me in the movie, right? Because I do sit at the table with him every day. I do run around with him all the time. And then they went with Orney Adams and they started following Orney. And at first I was like, oh, I thought I was going to be the guy. And then when the movie came out, you realize, oh, they needed the... I was like, whew! Right. You dodged? Yeah. That's so crazy. I mean, I say this, but... No, please.

Go ahead. No, no, I... It was culturally, like you say, it wasn't culturally this huge moment, but it was a huge moment for comedians of every age. Of people that were established, people that just loved it, people that kids who hadn't even started it yet,

but were thinking about it, that movie holds a special place in comedian's minds for sure. Yeah, yeah. And I don't say that lightly, you know, we always put, you know, we, because we're in it, we tend to put things on pedestals a bit, but honestly, that documentary kind of like, it's such an authentic view into what's going on, you know, more so than most things. And the fact that it's Jerry Seinfeld, you know, who's at this point at the peak,

and he's doing it. And honestly, without exaggeration, like, I would, watch that once a year and I'll get something new out of it every time like just personally. I'll learn to pick out something, pick out something new. Like something he says that just resonates to where I am in life and, you know, and it took me a while to really understand what he's saying. And, you know, it's funny. Like he's going into, he's going into clubs and everyone's like, ah, and then he's like, yo, they give me like three minutes. And then it doesn't even matter who you are. And then he'll have like a bad gig. He'll go to this other place and have a bad gig.

I'm like, oh, yeah, that's, yeah. And it really was what he was going through was, and he always would talk about how he loves stand-up so much, but he also knows how hard it is to do it well. And that's why people who have success like he had in television or film, comedians, they very rarely come back to stand-up because you can't just show up. You've got to put in all these hours again.

You have to be humble and go through all that growing, again and he wanted to do it so badly but he knew it was going to be painful and I think that's so inspiring because you so many times feel like this is is it is everybody think it's this hard yeah yeah and you watch that documentary you really get that you get that like even jerry Seinfeld literally you know he's like this is how big do you have to be at one point he's like how big do you have to be to get these people to listen to you And yeah, I think that's it. I mean, one thing I realized after I got the daily show job was like, man, stand-up is the easiest thing to not do.

If you got any other thing going for you, stand-up is the easiest thing to not do. And it makes no sense financially. The return on investment is so low, the danger, the plus the travel, the mental. So it's like you got to love it, you know. You have to love it. Otherwise, you can't. Yeah. But the thing you really see over the long haul is that if you don't let it go, you always have it.

And TV shows come and go, movies come and go. And eventually, you know, when you're in that part of the business, it's very splashy and it's very exciting. But you need other people to come get you and let you do it. And stand up, if you maintain it, when all of it kind of goes away and it's like somebody else's, the guy now getting all that stuff, you can still show up on stage and kill. That's the ultimate win. Yeah, yeah, master of your own destiny to many extent. Yeah, for sure. And I can, yeah, I definitely see that now. It's like, exactly we just said, like, when you can make your own material and go on stage, you almost are like, you're not desperate for every other thing that happens

because you kind of have control of your own self-expression, you know, which gives you so much power. And you can pick your spots. You're not, you know, hopefully you're not too desperate for other stuff, you know. Right. Right. Yeah. So that lack of desperation is the biggest thing from stand-up, I think. Oh, the best.

Absolutely. And the other day, I think I asked you this before, but, um, uh, I mean, maybe just for the purpose of this podcast. Like, do you feel like this, does this moment in New York where everything's kind of shut down, stand comedy-wise? Do you have any parallel to a previous moment in history? I guess it's unprecedented, but like, no, this is, okay, this doesn't compare the 80s? Is this like what 1980s was like in New York City? Yeah, I don't, no, I mean, no, for me, I started in 93, and the only big impact really was 9-11,

and we were performing three days after it. Jesus. You know what I mean? And so, like, this is the weirdest because this is the only time that stand-up has been knocked off the map. It's like, it's never, we, depression, recessions, national tragedies. As comedians, you're like, well, we can still do it. We can still go.

And no one's ever taken us out. Yeah. I remember, I was a year ago, I was running around New York City, going from gig to gig, you know, like, like different comedy clubs, rushing around, jumping on stage, doing 10 minutes, loving it. Yeah. And I distinctly remember like, man, this is living the dream. I mean, New York City, I'm doing multiple gigs a night.

I feel like I'm getting better. This is the best. Like, this, surely this can't end. Like, and then you go like, yeah, you know, it's good. Like, this is too good to be true. And then you tell that voice to shut up, like Tony Robbins. You're like, no, no, you're just being negative. Why would this end?

And then it ended. I was like, what, how did this end? I know. And the funny thing is we all think it's our fault. Yeah, yeah. We all think it's because we were thinking those thoughts. Yeah, I loved it too much. That's why I loved it too much.

I was having too good a time. If I enjoyed myself less, you know, maybe karma wouldn't have, yeah, I deserve this. I was talking to Kathleen Madigan and she's like, I will never complain about going on the road again. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. Oh, man. Well, we, you know, we, I've been reminded of it because we were going to do this podcast,

but the first time that we hung out was at the Soho cigar bar. Oh, yeah, yeah. Remember, like, after shows and we got to go down with our buddy Max? And I literally have that in my head. Like, that's such a good destiny. It's a good after the comedy night moment to just sit there in that beautiful little room with the cigar and just like get to know people and stuff. And I have that in my head as one of the, one of the markers of normality.

Like, if we're back there, we'll know we're back there. No, you're right. And that's right. That's part of the living the dream, I was saying. You run around New York City and then you end up in Seoul, Cigaba, with Tom Papa, and, you know, you're like, yeah, you know, some, I can't, I think someone else, Max was there. And sometimes I go there with, you know, other people, Paul Verzi or Bill Burr or whoever. And, you know, like, man, it's crazy. Like, well, in New York City, you know, it's literally living a dream.

And it's a nice, it's a nice little, it's a nice, it's a nice finish line for us, as long as they stay open. Yeah, yeah. So when are you coming back to the mainland? You're in Hawaii now working on something. Yeah, yeah, I'm filming something till May. Right now, it's just the start of March. I've been here for a few months now. Again, very lucky to be here.

To be quite honest, yeah, I mean, this place is, I cannot believe this is still America. You know, we're in the middle of the- I love it there. Yeah, like America is so big. It's so huge, you know, as a country that we're here and we're still in America. Yeah. And yeah, I guess I'm coming back and going to try to go back to New York after May. And we'll see, you know, hey, good, good vaccine news.

The last couple weeks, every week has better and better news on a vaccine. So I'm pretty confident. We'll be back swinging, you know, I think. I was in New York in the summertime, 2020. so let's say end of August 2020. And man, it was, it was popping. It was people who were coming out for stand-up shows. You know, we were doing it on rooftops.

We were doing it in Central Park. We're doing it in the dumbest places. It was, but people were so happy to be there. Yeah. People are desperate for it. I can tell people are desperate to come back out, you know. I actually feel like maybe Netflix will suffer after this because no one wants to stay home and watch Netflix anymore.

I know. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's okay. Yeah, they'll come out and what? While we're rehearsing and getting ready for the next one. Yeah, yeah. So before we go, what are you, what's your, what are you eating over there in Hawaii? Is the food, is the food decent?

Yeah, you know, volcanic minerals produce great produce. And that's the thing about New York. You're like a New York guy, right? Born and ways, Jersey, New York. Yo, I got to tell you, the produce in New York is terrible. And you only know that if you come from somewhere else. I know. If you live in New York, you're like, this tastes fresh.

And if you're from there, it's like, this is not what food supposed to taste like, you know. And so. I remember the first time I went to the Caribbean and had a papaya. I was like, what? Yeah. This is totally different. It's not supposed to be watery and tasteless. Yeah.

Yeah. Even California, you know, has better produce than New York. So, yeah, out here in Hawaii, you know, very Asian-influenced. Yeah. Chinese culture, Japanese culture, and not to mention native Hawaiian culture. Yeah, it's very familiar. All the food here are very familiar, you know. Oh, that's good.

Yomta, dimsum, yam ta. Yeah, Tom, I got to take you out for. Yeah, absolutely. That's going to be my new thing. I've got Europe down. I've been to the Middle East. I've got the U.S. down. It's like, it's time.

South East Asia. It's time, man. It's time. I'll make sure you don't, I'll make sure. you don't go to the wrong places. All right. You're the best. Great to see you again, really sincerely.

And I can't wait till you get back and we can go to have another cigar. It'll be good time. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for reaching out, Tom. We appreciate it. Good to see you. All right, buddy. Good luck. Take care.

Take care. Bye. Bye. That was the great Ronnie Chang. Check out his special on Netflix. He's a maze balls. And, of course, the daily show and all things, Ronnie. Okay, now it's time for a quick bite.

get on the phone and call New York City long distance and grab a quick bite with Mateo Lane. Oh man, this is going to be good. This will be the answers to my Carbonara troubles. Mateo. Yes. Bonjourno. Bonjourno. How stay? Bené. Is that right? Yeah, that's right.

Bravo. I'm here today. So yesterday, as you know, because I started texting you frantically as I was in the throes of it. I was, well, let me back up a day before that. I was in a deli and they had Guantale. She was very excited because they don't have that everywhere. So I got to Guantale and I ran back home and decided it's time to try again with Carbon which is your favorite of all favorites.

It is. And you also know how to make it very well. Yes. And I am getting better, but I'm struggling. And I think, let me throw... Okay, so you told me, pare down, don't you dare use anything other than pecorino cheese? Pecorino Romano.

Yeah. Pecorino. You're right? eggs yeah pasta yes dry pasta

bucatini or spaghetti or regastoni that's your only option yes I went with bucatini thicker spaghetti and then

salt and pepper a little pasta water and I'm in Banchol that's perfect and the Bunchali of course and I think

because my cheese was shredded and not graded? I might have had an early misstep. Well, I think what it looked to me in the picture was that it wasn't the cheese, it was the egg, because on the guanchale, I viewed it with Liv. We watched it like it was sort of like a National Geographic photo, like we were zooming up on it and inspecting what the problem was. And only Italians would do this, but we were looking at it, I think the problem

was the egg. So when we were cooking the eggs, either you didn't temper the eggs with the hot pasta water or you cooked it in the pan, and the pan was still too hot, and it caused them to scramble. That was it. That was it. Because the cheese will melt, whether you shred it, whether you, you know, however you grate, it's going to melt. You know, I think it was the egg. It looked like you had something went wrong with the egg and it was scrambled. So when you, when you have the guanchali and you're making in the pan and you fried it all up do you drain the oil and take it out and then add it back in later or do you just throw the pasta into it once it's cool down there's a few different methods to it the way that I do it that I learn from these from Caudible gang everyone

can look them up on Instagram um is when I I cook the guanchale first and then when the guanchale is done cooking I take it like on a paper towel so you know like so that but it's not super oily. Then I take the oil from the pan. Then I'm done with the pan. Done with the pan. Done with the pan. Then what I do is I take, once that pasta water is really boiling and you're about like

a minute before you're taking your pasta out, I take like a spoonful of the pasta water, bring it into my egg cheese mixture and then mix it in so that way one, the heat starts to cook the eggs, but it makes it creamy so that when I bring the pasta and won't scramble it in two, it helps bring that starchy pasta water into the egg mixture so that that mixture will start to adhere and stick to the pasta. So then I take my pasta out, drain the pasta while saving a cup of the pasta water, bring the pasta right into the egg mixture and start mixing with a spatula. And then depending on how thick it is, you can add some more pasta water into it or not. Usually that's the step that I take, and then I have my guantali and bring the guantale into the pasta.

Oh, this is a much, this is a much cooler, and I don't mean cool, like, the Fonz approach. Because I was always using the pan, and it was always a little bit of a complication of how my, is it cooled off enough? I would take it off and put it on the side. so if you're getting the pan out of there completely then now that's enough to cook the egg that's hot enough oh yeah yeah that's plenty fine plus you've already cooked some of the egg by bringing that pasta water into it earlier and just a tablespoon

right so another thing too you can do it on it I've done it plenty of times on the pan you can do it on a pan and actually if you went to like when a strasario or something like that in Rome usually they'll do it on a pan but they've got such a method it to the way that they do it. They're like machines over there. If you really want to break it down and make it easier, you really can just bring it into a bowl.

That's all you have to do. Right, right, right. Wow. Now the Carbo Gang, which is that Instagram account, which I, you've got me hooked on it too. And obsessed with them. Yeah, obsessed. And they'll sometimes be showing you slow motion of stirring the egg

pecorino mixture and it looks thick it looks like a like a custard almost before the pasta gets in your right yeah it is pretty thick i mean they use a lot of egg yolks you have to remember when they're making these videos usually they're adding extra egg yolks to give it sort of that look um so i mean if you wanted to like let's say you're making pasta for one person usually i'd recommend two egg yolks i wouldn't you don't need anything more than that if you really want to get like that creamy, yellowy, glowy look, you can add an extra egg yolk. You just might have to add a little extra pasta water when you're mixing because it can be too thick sometimes.

So you really want like the right consistency. Got it. Yeah, you're right. They definitely, do you, when I was doing it for just myself yesterday, I used two egg yolks and one full egg. Ah, never. Never the full egg. the full egg and there's a big argument about this in Rome like a big argument about

this in Rome like who uses full egg who doesn't use full egg I find by the people that I've spoken to lived with cooked with and eaten with in Rome where this is from that the places that I prefer do not use the full egg most of the traditional recipes and I'm sure there's some gay go out there listening to this screaming at their computer but um they do not use a full egg. Just the egg. As my grandmother would say, you spit on the ground.

Yeah, I'm spitting on the ground right now. Never the full egg. The full egg, I mean, you can do it. The problem is, is the consistency is not going to be the same. Like, I want full control of the consistency and how cradney I want the pasta sauce to be. So if I use an egg yolk, it really, you risk. making more of a scrambled egg with that. If you want that custardy look

and get rid of the egg white, the custard is. It's just egg yolk. Right. Okay, final question, I'll let you go. Sure. Honestly, if you said I need to talk to you for 23 hours straight about pasta, I would literally make a pot

of coffee and be like, let's go. Well, this is I, do not for one second think this is our last conversation. you're in your apartment. You're making it for one. You're using two egg yolks.

How much pasta do you use for just Mateo? Like a fourth of a box of a pound of pasta. Yeah, right. That's what I was figuring. I used about half a box yesterday. That's a lot of pasta. I passed out on the couch a half hour later. I remember once I made a lot of pasta.

I was like on Instagram making a lot of pasta. And a family friend of ours, who I've known since he was like two. His name is Nino. They live in Sicily. Literally messages me while I'm making it saying, Mateo, it is too much pot. That wants to use just a shit ton of pasta and have a lady in the trant moment by ourselves. Dregonona mountain of pasta theme.

The Italians, like, they spit on that. They're like, what do you do? Like, that's enough already. Like, it would be the equivalent of going to a restaurant and instead of having a turkey breast being like, I'll have the whole turkey. They're like, what? Right. Yeah.

There's also that, I also, it's how you're raised, too. Like, the idea that you would not have enough food for people was just like the worst violation you could possibly put out into the world. So I always, but it was way too much. Because there's nothing sadder than not being able to eat it. throwing stuff away that's even worse well it's a battle it's like it's sad that I ate all this cups up by myself but now I'm just going to sit my own shame or I threw it out lightly better on the couch so I'm still going to pass out right all right well I have a little guanchali left as I told

you and I'm going to get on it probably FaceTime you during this uh let me know when you do it and then you know if you want I can do it with Liz we can sort of wop out at you that'd be great I'll meet you. That'd be great. All right, you're the best. Thank you, Matt. I'll talk to you soon. Boniorno.

Javierity. Ciao. All right, that's it, everybody. Hope you had a good time. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for subscribing. Thank you for liking. Again, March 27th.

You can get tickets at rushticks.com or Tompapa.com, wherever go through the social medias. You know how to do it. You're a grown-up. But a big show. March 27. Thank you guys so much for being here. Thank you to Mateo Lane and Ronnie Chang, and we'll see you next time.