Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 46 - Sam Sifton

Episode Date: March 23, 2021

It's a big one! We break bread with New York Times Food Editor, Sam Sifton, who has been a friend and guide during my food and bread journey. He has a great new book No-Recipe Recipes. And we get a Quick Bite with the great Colin Quinn, even though he hates sourdough! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. I'm Tom Papa, thank you so much for being here. You guys are the best. I wish I could slice up some bread and put out some cheese and pour some wine And just give it to you. You deserve it. So being I can't do that, maybe you should break some out yourself, in my honor, and celebrate as we go into a great podcast. You guys are going to love this one.

Sam Sifton, the legendary Sam Sifton of the New York Times is on our show. This is huge. He is the New York Times editor of cooking and a whole bunch of other stuff. the home section books. I mean, he's incredible. But this guy has been a guide and an inspiration, and he is very much responsible for me becoming even more passionate about baking bread. We also, I'll get into this in a second, but we also have the great Colin Quinn, a quick bite with Colin Quinn. another one of my favorite people on the planet. We're going to check in with him and get a good sense of what's going on in good old New York.

And I have a bone to pick with Colin because he is anti-sourdough bread. Colin Quinn is anti-sourdough bread. I know. How can I still be friends with him? I don't even know. I guess that's just how much I love him. Sam, on the other hand, when I was starting to bake sourdough bread for the first time, I was just kind of getting into it.

And I had my sourdough starter and I was learning about it and putting it out into the world and posting about it on social media. And Sam Sifton of the New York Times saw this and wanted to do a story about people in their starters and sent a camera crew out and interviewed me for a story. and put me in the New York Times with me and my little sourdough starter, hilarious picture, a big picture as part of this big story in the cooking section of the New York Times. And it changed everything because, look, if people know you as the sourdough guy, you're going to kind of lean into it a little bit more.

I couldn't not do it. I was now a national figure. in the sourdough world, is what I told myself. And I literally had friends calling from New York, like, what is happening out there in L.A.? What are you, why are you in the food section? I thought you were a comedian. But it was so great. And it really made me realize, I think, that there was more to the sourdough thing than just

what I had already been enjoying for, I don't know, I guess it was probably only like a year or so in. And it just opened up the depth, I guess. If you can do a whole story on it and there were this many people that passionate about it, it kind of confirmed that my losing my mind and baking so much bread all the time, it confirmed that I wasn't alone. It wasn't a strange pursuit that I was like Tommy had lost his mind. Sure, he had, but he also was part of a larger group who had lost their minds. So Sam, since then, we've really become somewhat of friends.

I like to consider us friends. He's a great, great person. And you can, it's kind of like when you listen to somebody or you're a. a fan of somebody and then you think you have a relationship with them in a way because Sam puts out his newsletter the cooking newsletter and if you subscribe to the New York Times and you get the app on your phone and you can get this newsletter he writes he pretty much it's a newsletter every week about where we are and what's going on in the culture what's going on in the time of year and what we're all feeling especially during this last year is like to have somebody to

talking about everything that's going on, but relating it all to food. I mean, who, other than myself and you, dear listeners, to this podcast, who's going to enjoy that more than us? Nobody. He's such a good writer. He's so on the money. And this new book he has is called No Recipy Recipes. It's the perfect evolution to my journey with him. Because I've been able to amass all of these recipes and learn all of these things from the thousands of recipes. Like I have on my phone in the app, I have Christmas. I have Christmas Eve. I have Thanksgiving.

I have Easter. And I have logged in over the years all of the recipes that I've made, broken down by holiday. And it's been my little guidebook, my little cooking friends as I go through my life and start to host all of these big events. And they keep changing. It's kind of like what your grandmother would have like, you know, like a little three-by-five cards stuck in a box somewhere or sheets just written down and shoved into a drawer. This is just the high-tech version of it.

But with also the resource of like some of the greatest cooks and writers in American cooking. And so I would revisit all of these recipes and kind of, you know, come back and try them again. And oh, it's Thanksgiving again. I'm going to try these potatoes again or I'm going to try this way of preparing the turkey and stuff. And as you improve, as you get better at cooking and you get better at all of these skills, you start to improvise and you start to go off on your own. And you start to, you learn, like when I first made sourdough, I would stick to these rules.

And then you start to learn and get a feel for what you're doing. And then you start making it your own. You know how wet the dough should be or you know how the feel of it, literally in your hands. And you start to kind of make it your own. And that's what his guide is, in this book. This book is No Recipe Recipes where it's basically, okay, here are the ingredients that you could throw into a pizza without crust or a pasta with blue cheese and walnuts

or steamed muscles with tomatoes and chorizo. And he basically just gives you the ingredients and a little story about where you're headed. And then it's up to you. It's up to you to take it with your knowledge and your experience and try and make it your own. And I have to say, it's kind of like it's exactly what I wanted to read at this moment because it's you build up your confidence and you start to experiment. Why should you have to follow something to the letter? I mean, certain dishes, you know, if you're doing certain like baking, of course and certain French dishes and there's certain things where there's not a lot of wiggle room. This book is basically allowing you to play with some wiggle room. Not completely off the top of your head. It's going to give you a guide

that's going to tell you this recipe for pasta puttinasca, right? Anchovies, garlic, olive oil, pasta, canned tomatoes, olives, capers, red pepper flakes, and parmesan. And then it's just go to town. By the way, I just opened that randomly. And Putaneska is one of my favorite things to make. And it's a funny thing when I talked to Sam, I was like, you know, you put anchovies in a lot of your stuff. And my family doesn't like anchovies. And he gave me the secret, no one will know. Put them in.

They'll just know that it's kind of salty and kind of taste better. And they won't even know it's anchovies. Don't even tell them. That sounds like a great idea. So I really recommend this book. Go out and get it. It's no recipe recipes. The New York Times cooking, Sam Sifton, a great guide in figuring out what's put into your pantry. And as you'll see when we talk to him, he's very thoughtful. And he's not just a cooking dude. He knows a lot about a lot of things and just an all-around good guy. Gave my daughter and I a tour of the New York

Times, which is such a special treat, which you'll remember forever. So we're going to have that great interview with Sam Sifton, and then we're going to grab a quick bite with my good friend Colin Quinn. And let me just put a little plug in this Saturday night, if you're listening to this now, on the 27th, if you're listening to this on Tuesday or Wednesday, yeah, if you're listening, if it's past the 27th, you're out of luck. Well, maybe not. I think you have an extra couple days. The short of it is. The sponsor for our podcast today is me. I'm doing a live stream. show on the 27th, 9 p.m. east, 6 p.m. West. I'm going to do all stand-up in your living room, on your laptop, or whatever device you want to throw it on. And then at the end, we're going to

have a hang, and we're going to mix cocktails and hang out, and I'll be able to talk with you back and forth. I can see where you live, and you can see me, and we can talk and hang and drink. it's going to be a great time. That'll be Saturday the 27th. And then I want you go to tompapa.com because I have flights, guys. I have some flights in my phone. I'm going to Omaha, Nebraska. I'm coming to Kansas City, Missouri. I just closed a date for Salt Lake City. I have flights. I am coming. I am vaccinated. I am coming out to meet you and get us back to normal. Oh, this is so exciting. So go to tompapa.com and look up the tickets if I'm coming near you. And if not, I will come into your life on Saturday. All right. Enough of me. Let's get to it. Let's talk with our good pal,

Sam Sifton, about his new book, No Recipe Recipes. Uh, Thanks so much. The book is amazing. And, you know, this really means a lot, in all honesty. And I'm going to have a proper intro to this whole thing to begin with. But I just have to say, you have been like my cooking guru since I've been in Los Angeles, which has been, you know, for like the last eight years, where you cook a lot more than I did when I was in my New York apartment. And the New York Times, cooking food section has been just a part of my life the entire way and that your book is now, I feel like your book is pushing me a little further because there's so many times when I'm so dialed into your app, I'm so dialed into your newsletter, I'm so dialed into learning and experimenting and you've taken me through the holidays. And there are so many times I'm like, just want to be a little more bold and do things on my own. And I'm frightened to.

And now you come up with a book telling us how to be a little more bold and cook without recipes. Well, that's the whole idea of the thing. I mean, we've all of us been cooking more than we have in the past, I think. It's very difficult to live that take out lifestyle when the pandemic is roiling. And so many, many, many Americans have been cooking. more than they ever have cooked before. And I think gaining confidence along the way. Yeah.

I've talked to dozens of people who have gone down various rabbit holes. You went down the sourdough rabbit hole way before the pandemic, of course. But you understand what it's like to experiment, to follow rules slavishly and exactly. I thought, you know, let's just take a break. And then the before times, maybe that break was. to order a pizza. But now maybe that break is to just cook with what you have on hand, make the flavors big and bold and beautiful, and experiment a little. You can do it. You've been cooking so much. You can do it. I know, but you can't, but there is, but it's like, it's like a

little bird leaving the nest. You're like, I don't, I know you're telling me I can do it, but I don't know if I can. Well, that's why we got a bunch of like egg recipes. in there and peanut butter sandwiches and the like. That's your first step. That's your, that's your first flight lesson out of the nest. Yeah. But there is that thing. Like when I started getting into the sourdough and you start getting, you start to understand it in a different way. And you understand like the rhythms of it and the weight of it and all of those kind of little stuff. And then you do start to branch out and make things your own. You start to learn what you like. and what you're working for rather than what these five books are telling you,

you should be going for. And you do make it your own. And that's what's very cool about this. I love how you start off with, let's load up the pantry. And if you shop for the right stuff, when it's time to get creative and go to work, you're going to have this stuff on hand. Yeah, you totally are. And what that stuff is depends absolutely on who you are and what flavors you like

and what kind of cooking you do and what you're interested in bringing to the various meals. For me, that's a lot of, as I say, big flavors. That's a lot of condiments. That's a lot of, you know, that's a lot of salt. That's a lot of fire. That's a lot of. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. I mean, you know, from following you all these years, I knew that about you already. And then to like see the list of the stuff of the, of the condiments and the chili. sauces and all this stuff. And it really kind of, the real interesting thing when I was looking at it, and it really struck me was it, you're so cross-cultural. There's not, there's like, sure, there's a Putinesque, but then there's a real, you have a real love of Asian influence.

And like, there's no, how would you describe what you're, can you even? Because it seems like it's, it's in almost every single culture makes its popular. up in your in your newsletters and in your and even in this book well i hope that's american in some way you know i think yeah it's interesting when i look through the this book now and and think about the testing process that went into it and all the different flavors and i love it when things when those when there are these kind of cross-cultural moments that could only be american So I have a recipe in there that is basically a riff, is totally a riff on a Mandy Lee recipe. She's a food blogger who spent, who has a great, great cookbook.

And in the cookbook, she describes it exactly a recipe that I described very vaguely in which you essentially make like, you know, an Italian red sauce. But then you put supermarket pot stickers into it with a splash of fish sauce. and it's so good only have happened in America, I think. She didn't create it in America, but she's American. Right. So that's one example. There's another one, a riff on a burger I had in Omaha, Nebraska,

where the Chinese restaurants all across the United States serve crab rangoon, which is a kind of little pot sticker essentially with crab cream cheese in it. Yeah. In Omaha, I had this, I had this burger with crab rangoon sauce on it. And it was just crazy. And I was like, I got a, I got a no recipe, rescue that. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a good one. Although, do you know what the slogan of the state of Nebraska is? No. It fits perfectly for the crab rangoon hamburger. It's honestly, it's not for everyone. That's great. I'm actually heading back there. That's my first show back live will be next month in Omaha, Nebraska.

So it's in the what you can call it in that giant theater there? No, it's in a rock club where they can kind of distance the people and do the whole thing. Sweet. Yeah, it's called the waiting room. It is a good town. I know. Good people there. Yes.

That really is interesting. of the American bent. That really makes so much sense. I mean, I'm here in L.A. now. And, you know, there's, there's, there's so many parts of the culture that I haven't really, like, I'm superficially into Mexican food. I'm superficially into Korean food. But if you get the right guides and you can kind of like, they can lead you around this city, you can really, it's so authentic and you really can learn a lot. But what the one thing I I, the connection during all of this, you have been my like New York, uh, monitor because, and you were very, you know, I always, I always compliment your writing. I really think you're such a great writer. Thank you. But, but during this pandemic, you really were

stepping beyond food. I was feeling your angst. I was feeling your sense of, uh, of joy at times or or or or morose or it was just like but it was in a very seasonal new york heartbeat that i was familiar with and uh you must have felt like you were almost using this as a journal for your own journey well yes and no i mean i decided pretty early i mean look i've written this newsletter a long time and i've written it through some pretty horrific news events and I know I've always I've always tried to be as empathetic as possible in the newsletter

towards what people around the country around the world might be feeling about a particular moment in time because of a terrorist attack or because of a domestic terrorist attack because of a weather event because of the economy and now for the past year

because of the pandemic because of the summer of racial reckoning that continues because of the presidential election. Like I was like, I got to practice radical, radical empathy here. But of course, I can't be. And that means acknowledging when I'm down to because I think when I'm down, others are down. And when I'm up, others are up. I'm not a special person. I'm just, just an American.

but I am a particular kind of an American. I'm from Brooklyn and I have a New York point of view. And it's really, you know, I wouldn't, to erase that would be anodyne, not empathetic. Like I got to be true to my difference and my difference is that I'm from New York. Yeah. Or as we say, I'm from New York. Yeah. And I, and in that vein, the one we really.

memorable moment. It was when you were, and I really, my heart went out to you because I know that hustle in New York, that coming into town, going to the New York Times where you work is like the heartbeat. I mean, that is, it doesn't, you don't feel more energy than when you were in that square block and your love for the egg sandwich that you would get at the deli and that you hadn't been able to get it in so long, and you were trying to replicate it at home to the point where you were even wrapped it because you're you're like it's missing something and maybe it's that moisture right of when it was wrapped i was like he is really going deep yeah yeah it does make a difference you know a five-minute wrap it really does yeah designer spirit it makes perfect

sense oh the one big one which i'm so glad is a version of it is in the book which uh which i taken from one of your articles early on, which was so good for my bread, the matchup of the gentleman's breakfast, the creation of the of the garlic and anchovy, paprika, lemon butter, the night before, and then going, as you say, wall to wall on that bread in the morning. And then there's other versions of it. In your original article, you was a scrambled, a slow scrambled egg. And in this version, it's more of a, I don't know if it's a fried egg. No, I think in this one, it's like a soft boiled egg.

Yeah, soft boiled egg on top, which got me excited. But man, when I tell people about that breakfast, not one person says, wow, that sounds great. That's what I love about a bunch of these recipes. You know, when you tell people about them, they go, that doesn't sound very good. Give it a shot. Yeah, yeah. And I never pour it back. It tastes pretty great.

Oh, it is the best thing I've ever eaten in the morning. It's like pounding the table good. How much do you love anchovies? I love anchovies quite a bit because I love salt quite a bit. Probably not as much as my colleague, Melissa Clark, who, who I think is in a committed relationship with an anchovy. But I love, but I love them. a great deal. Yeah. And I love them for more than their saltiness. They do provide a kind of,

they do provide that extra oomph that they call it mommy, that body, that roundness of flavor. Mm-hmm. They're really good. Oh, so good. And my, no one person in my family likes them, but me. And there's so many great recipes of, especially in Italian cooking. You know, in Italian cooking, there are a lot of times, particularly when anchovia is in a sauce, and it's just one or two anchovies in the bottom and they break up in the heat. There's no reason to tell your family their anchovies. They don't know. Yeah, you're right.

I know. I really, I try and please everybody. What's your family like? What was it like cooking for your family? Are there varying tastes? Oh, yeah. I mean, at a certain point, my older one declared, I don't eat chicken. The chicken was like off the table for like a couple of years except for testing and now they're off at college so you eat a lot of chicken.

It's funny dealing with people's tastes. Yeah, man. And I made the mistake early on by trying to satisfy all their tastes. Yeah, but then you're making six dinners or what? I know. It's crazy. It doesn't work out. I will say one thing I came across when or determined I would do when the kids were little because I was sick of having to cook all these different things.

Yeah. I would just put all these sauces on the side and the grownups would take the sauces and the kids wouldn't take the sauces. That's smart. And that worked out okay. Yeah. It's funny. I have a, I have a, my oldest is a freshman in school right now. Oh, you met her.

You gave us the tour. Yeah. She's a freshman in college now. Yeah, yeah. So exciting. So exciting. And it's pretty interesting to see that she's become this kind of experimental cook at her in her door. Like they have a kitchen off of her dorm room and her and they're like getting tomatoes and they're like, they were like actively, which I really feel good about because they left a home where you had all of that stuff.

Yeah. And you were. cooking and creating. And even in this like little ramp shackle one room place, she's trying to replicate it, which is, I'm pretty proud of it. That's so fantastic. Yeah. So fantastic. It's funny how hungry they are when they go to school, isn't it? Oh, it's incredible. They come back and they're just like, they eat through the break. What happened? Did you eat this trimester? So when did you start putting this bad boy together? Because the photography, The photography alone is so great.

The photography by David Malash, with food styling from Simon Andrews and prop styling from page. It's just, it's just so great. So I guess it wasn't, it was, it was probably a year and a half ago. Mm-hmm. Because it take, book production takes a little while. Yeah, yeah. I will say that the, the images were created, a lot of them during,

the pandemic. Okay. And one of the things that I love about, well, about all of them, Paige Hicks, Simon, David is like, this looks like my food, but a little better. I feel, you know what I mean? Yep. That's what you want. I got a stylist to go to the Oscars with this stuff. But it looks like my food, which I, which I really like. That's great. So they put it together. over the, they put the photographs together, I guess, in early quarantine. And then we built it out over the, what, what is time? Now, now we're in, now we're in February, no, we're in March. March. March. March. March madness. Yeah. Just crazy. But it came together pretty well. And it was not as painful as, as, um, the last book that I wrote because of course, I'd written all these recipes for

the newsletter already. So, right. kind of a, I had a spine. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. The last one was the Sunday book, right? Yes, which unfortunately came out right at the beginning of the pandemic. And it was a full-throated argument for inviting lots of people into your house.

Maybe consider inviting strangers into your home. Oh, the worst. Collected emails. But maybe it'll have a second life. Yeah, I know. That was my last book was the same thing. I think it, I think it came out the day that Tom Hanks got COVID. Oh, man. So has a feel, has a feel in your neck of the woods? How is it, how's it feeling pandemic wise? I think there's, you know, there's some, there's some tentative hope in the air because people are getting jabs in the arm. Yeah. There's also a little bit of nervousness in the year.

York. I mean, I think there's a real desire to open up, but we've got, New York City still has a pretty healthy clip of people getting sick and people dying. So, you know, it's nervous making, but it's difficult with the days getting longer and the temps increasing and these beautiful blue skies gleaming, not to feel a little bit hopeful that maybe by summer and into fall we're going to be able to gather together again? Yeah, yeah. I had done a show back in September in Denver, and I was speaking to a doctor after the show, and he was saying that, you know, he'd been researching it and that 18 months is really the cycle of these pandemics and these episodes throughout human history, that 18 months is the real thing.

And if you do the math from when we started, that it was like June, July was when we would be, this is without the vaccine, when we would naturally kind of, it would naturally run its course. So I've been hanging on to 4th of July. Nice. That's been my hope, my finish line is like,

if I could be at the Jersey Shore, barbecuing with my family, that would be a nice accomplishment. Well, that would, I hope you get to do that. I hope I get to do it as well. But, you know, I'm nervous too. As a buddy of mine said the other day,

I don't want to be the guy shot in the head after the armistice. Right, exactly. I know. Oh, here's a hard. Here's a terrifying one. And this is like, because, you know, you kind of have these moments, don't you, where you're like, well, if I get it, I'll, I'll survive. You kind of have like that dude thing where you can kung fu your way or survive a plane crash.

You know, like we always. have those kind of heroic moments. But I have a good friend, Dave Kekner, the actor from the office and Anchorman, great guy, great actor. He got it last February. And Sam, he has not had a sense of taste or smell in a year. Wow. Poor guy.

That to me seems like that's worse than death. That sounds awful. Could you imagine? No. I'm just eating paste all day and living in a smell environment. Oh, poor guy. Yeah, he says it just tastes like tin. And I was like, all right. So this isn't just about surviving. This is about, we don't want to get this thing now. You just don't want to get it. No, not at all. So what have you been, what have you been doing at home? What have you been cooking at home during, during these

recent months? I'm working like a madman. I got a new job at the times during the pandemic. I moved on to the Masthead as an assistant managing editor running culture and lifestyle. And so that's a lot. That's a lot. That's a lot. Culture and lifestyle. So that's beyond home. Yeah, that's at home. Culture, books, style, travel, real estate, food. Well, geez, Louise. It's a lot. That's a lot. So a lot of moving parts. And I kind of sit at the keyboard all day doing that, doing newsletters. And then I kick free at the end of the day and go down to the kitchen and figure out a no recipe recipe or test a recipe for a column. Yeah.

And that's really fun. That's great. Mike, you know, I love NYT cooking and I love the resource that it provides for our subscribers. but for myself, I'm generally looking forward. I'm looking to make recipes that are going to end up on the site or in the newsletter or in the magazine. And that's fun because it's creative and interesting and new. So I'm constantly making new stuff.

Right, right. That's exciting. I mean, I got excited just from opening up the book and seeing the different things to do with a salmon filet, because my parents were like, I'm telling you, Tom, you got to order from the certain place. They come from Norway. So I have this ton of frozen salmon. And, you know, after one or two, going around the track a couple times, you're like, all right, I need to, I got to break out and do something, something that's slightly different. Yeah.

And it's a drag when you, I did that too early in the quarantine. I don't want to, you've got 15 pounds of salmon. You don't need more. but I ordered some from from Homer in Alaska and I was I it's so delicious yeah but like what is it's going to be like death by salmon which you know salmon Tuesdays but there's some good recipes yeah yeah and look anything that just points you in the direction of trying something new I'm just like all right I'm all I'm all about it yeah 100% but really I have to say, salmon, I truly, truly thank you because I have in my phone Thanksgiving, I have Christmas

Eve, and I've maintained these kind of roadmaps and Easter. Thanksgiving, of course, and your Thanksgiving book was great. I have these, you have been a part of my home cooking life and these holidays, and they get updated every year, and I love when we're like heading towards Thanksgiving. you're like, hey, just a reminder, it's time to check your knives, check your platters. We're getting closer. It's been so great. And this book is such the natural progression of all of that. I just sincerely personally, I love seeing your face. And it really means a lot. It means a lot more than just picking up someone's cookbook and learning a couple things. Oh, you're so nice to say, Tom. That means a lot. I really appreciate that. And it's a story I hear from a lot of people in my

life, by the way. It's not just me. That's great. It's an honor to be able to do this stuff and to help people out. It's a kind of service, and I like, I like that service. Yeah. Well, keep at it, my friend. And I can't wait until I can get on a flight and come to New York and see you in person out on 8th Avenue. Likewise in California. Looking forward to returning to beautiful Los Angeles. That'll be the best. Thanks, buddy. Get back to work. Thanks. I will. Really appreciate it. All right. I'll see you around. Okay, that was the great Sam Sifton. Very inspiring.

Really go out and get the book. Cook your face off. Enjoy your life. Now, let's get a quick bite with the legendary Colin Quinn. Let's call him and find out what is his problem with sourdough. Colin. Yeah. How's it going?

Good. Are we in the podcast right now? Yeah, we are. that then I'll say good it was you ask me I was really doing I'd say terrible no that can't be true it can't oh it can't what I figured it would be good to call you because on the the other guest on this episode is Sam Sifton from the New York Times and yes and he's he's an amazing person but more than all of that he's kind of responsible for exposing my love of sourdough to the rest of the world when he put me in the New York Times.

And I know you have strong opinions about sourdough. Yeah. And I wanted to see if you've maybe changed your mind. Well, Sam, the word sour already tells you, you know, there's certain products that can be sour. Not many. If you really look, you've got, you know, sweet and sour chicken, which stinks. you know sour-bred kids which are horrible after the age of age

and even before that and there's a couple other sour things that kind of work I guess all right but it's the problem the problem is when I first went to San Francisco doing comedy everybody goes you gotta try the sour dough bread so I didn't go in there with a

predisposed shit attitude about salad bread I go to San Francisco I went to whatever place they mentioned you I mentioned a much of ways and I said let me have this seafood you know you know, what do they call it?

Like, like a marathe. Like a chowder? Like a chowder? Like, yeah. I love food like that. And I said, and give me sourdough bread. Yeah. Of course, that's what we have in San Francisco.

I had the sourdough bread. It almost ruined my meal. I was like, this bread is horrible. And I went to another place. Because it's just, I don't have any taste. And I went to another place and just got a plain sourdough the next day. I got like just a plain, because I said, maybe it's just one bad.

that salad bread sucked. Then I once had salad dough pancakes. That was even worse. So I just don't understand. Me and Tom were talking about French, you know, how France has the best bread. Right. French would never have sourdough bread in the whole country.

Neither would Italy. What does that tell you? It is kind of true. And I started looking into the history of sourdough a lot of times. There is, even in Lonesome Dove, the novel Lonesome Dove, the guy keeps the sourdough starter in his little satchel in his leather bag and then would make bread for the guys on the prairie like the next morning. And it does not sound like your most refined way to make bread, just taking it out of your leather

boot and Larry McMurtry lived in San Francisco, I think, or at least Northern California when it was part of the whole Ken Kesey thing, you know? Right, right. You got a lonesome dove. So probably that's where he got a stupid tow, though. You know, that detail. Thank God I just saw the mini-series. If I read the book, that would have ruined it for me.

Yeah, that was pretty good. They called it pot dough. Oh, gross. So are things, how are you eating in New York now? Are things opening up a little bit? Do you go to the outdoor dining or do you skip that? Yeah, I'd be going to outdoor dining for months. I mean, you know.

Yeah. I mean, the outdoor has been like this kind of weird, sad thing where everybody, where every restaurant has to build an indoor space outdoors. So basically they're building a shitty version of their restaurant. you know what I mean yeah it's like when the Marines used to have to you know build those like you know

just half-ass things out of everything they could have like part of a poncho and part of you know whatever tree they could attach it that's basically what this is and it's every restaurant but you're sitting still next to people you're right there's a little gust of air so I guess I'm being safe you know right

formality at this point oh man who knows but I'm pretty excited to see that the comedy seller and the Olive Tree are going to be opening up in the next couple of weeks. It really, I'm looking at flights already. Oh, yeah, I know. It's really our home for us. It's our, you know what I mean?

Like, when you think about what that really meant to us to go in there every night, how important it was for a long time. Yeah, God, not have it. No, and, you know, it's just, you know, it means so much to us. It really was, they really created a family for comedians, you know. And don't get me wrong, there's plenty of comedians that didn't get to work there that probably hate it more than life itself. And I understand that too. I wouldn't walk them there. I'd hate it too.

But for those of us that did work there, it was like a family. Let's just say that. Yeah, no, for sure. I still, after all these years, they'll miss the Schwarma in the front when you would first walk in. There would be that big, that little area that was cranking out shwarma. I still miss that. So do I. So do I. I feel the same exact way, Tom. It was like, you're just seeing Hassan back there and Magdi and all that. You know what I mean? I was there in 86. Wow. It was exactly that. Seeing them out there. Yeah, I loved that. I loved that boss. That was a good, yeah, that was a good part of the restaurant, too.

Can I see it to the street? Because McDougal Street is like a magic street. Yeah, it really is. He's the magic place on the magic street and the olive tree, you know? Yeah, guys. An amazing. place. I know. Oh my God, it's incredible. The only thing that's kind of upsetting is how Noam, who owns the comedy seller, how he messed up the nachos. That was very upsetting. He did? I hate nachos, so I don't give it in. What do you mean you hate nachos? I don't like cheese. I don't like nachos. What do you mean? So one of the best pizzas, the top three pizza experiences of my life were with you. Yeah, but that's pizza. That's different.

I hate like cheese, you know, melted cheese and all that bullshit. Blue cheese and whatever I walk in the whole foods in the whole cheese section, I avoid like the plague. It makes me want to fall out. Oh, God. What was the point? I feel bad. I wish I loved cheese. Yeah, because you do love pizza.

My two biggest regrets in life is I don't love cheese or coffee. Oh, my God. Poor coffee. That is, yeah, that's really weird. Those are the biggest regrets of my life. They're literally two of my favorite things on the planet. Well, coffee smells great, but every time I drink it, I'm like, oh, God, this is disgusting coffee ice cream. What's the name of the pizza place that crowded?

Which one? Oh, oh, I can't remember. I'm right on Mulberry Street. Yeah, yeah. It became very popular. Was it T. Induccio? No, no, not Chinducis. Stop saying Jinducet, Tommy.

What did you move on to pizza? Is it a sourdough pizza? Pizza don't tell me yes, I'll be. Oh, yeah, you can make, yeah. Oh, of course. I make, I make, I make, I make pizza dough with my sourdough. I just don't understand that, you know, most of the public doesn't like sourdough. It doesn't do a survey.

I wanted you do a survey on your show. And find out what percentage of people, you know, like sourdough? I would, yeah, I think a lot of people. I don't know, man. I mean, I really, I have to. to say when I I did Ruby Rosa I just look it up Ruby Rosa that's it oh man that was the best pepperoni pizza I've had in years I mean I've been to pizza but when I think about when I was a kid like accidentally we would stumble into places like when I worked on this truck with this guy and

we'd go to this place right around Ruby Rosa back and then to those days and it was just this pizza place and I was like I couldn't believe how good the pizza was it was like 80 good piece of places where I'm going on it's a place still around called Tadones in Coney Island. Uh-huh. And that was a famous one. That's a one of, it's still considered like one of the best. But even as a kid, I was like, wow, how many people are good? Yeah.

Mentos. Uh-huh. Bay Ridge. Oh, my God. Yeah. There's still, there's still good spots in, uh, yeah. The place where we go and you stand up over, Joe's? Joe's, yeah, Joe's.

Yeah, that place is a killer. Yeah, they're good. They've opened a chain of, Joe's, but they're all good, but they're not as good as the original, of course. Right. Did you ever try the one? I think I tried it once, but it was not my tough, not my style. Yeah, big and sloppy with art.

But I feel like Ben's is not that bad. No, Benz is good. That's solid right on the corner. Oh, you know, it's just a question of how, you know, how antiseptic you want your piece of place. Right. You want to really, you know, like the worst, the most homeless, eating and I said people that were homeless before they called them homeless when they were still bumps. Right.

That's it. The Google Street has some of the oldest homeless people in the world. I was looking at one guy around the corner. He doesn't get out of the guy who sells books and he's like a real grouchy. Yeah. He's unfriendly as home. Yeah. He was like to him one day.

And he told me, yeah, well, I have a house in Monticello. So I go up there. Did I ever tell you how he insults me once? I go walking by and he sits outside of a parking garage and he, like, sell stuff and ask for money. And I go walking by on my way from the underground to the comedy seller. to the comedy seller. And I go walking by it's in the winter. And he goes,

he got any money? And I don't say anything. I just keep walking. And he goes, I like your coat. I said, thanks. He goes, you heard that. I love New York. The homeless guys are hilarious.

But I have to say, I don't know if you can qualify that as an insult. It was an insult to my, it was an insult to my compassion for people. Right. It was a judgment. A judgment. Okay. It was also like Kevin Brennan. That's like Kevin Brennan's joke.

Remember that joke you used to do about the nightclub when he meets the girl? I was like, hey, it's my love. How you doing? What? I can't hear you. What's your name? I can't hear you. Can I buy your drink? Yeah, I'll take a vodka. I want to come back immediately.

Just to see every, just to literally hear everybody's acts and just how they're all kind of dealing and feeling it, That's been the thing I've missed the most, just comedians' perspective. I know. It is interesting. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, when we get back, I won't bring you any bread.

I won't give you any nachos, but maybe we'll go for pizza. All right. All right. Love you, Tony. Bye. All right, everybody, that was the big show. Thank you for tuning in. I hope you had a good time.

Thank you very much to Sam Sifton and, of course, the great Colin Quinn. We will be going out on tour, so check out time. Papa.com, live streaming show coming up. Like and subscribe this podcast. It really means a lot. We're building every week and spreading the community and make sure you subscribe. So we always get some more and then you can check it out on YouTube or you can just ask your Alexa to say it. You guys know what you're doing. You guys are the best. We'll see you next time.