Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 48 - Erica Rhodes

Episode Date: April 6, 2021

It's time to break bread with the hungry and hilarious Erica Rhodes, the amazing journalist H. Claire Brown, and a Quick Bite with the mighty funny Jo Koy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey! Don't you know? Hey, it's how we go. Hey, it's time for Breaking Bread with Papa. Hey, don't you know? Hey, it's also a show. Hey! Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa.

You guys are the best. Thanks for coming along. Thanks for being a part of this beautiful table. We have a great show for you guys today. We have the very funny, very funne. We have the very funny. Erica Rhodes on the program. She's so great. I've worked with her a whole bunch. She's super funny. I'm a little worry that she doesn't eat enough. So I'm giving her nothing but carbs. I'm giving

her bread. I'm giving her cookies. And we're going to make sure that she eats more. We also have a writer on the program, H. Claire Brown, super, super talented writer. And I sought her out, because she wrote an article on the long haulers who lose their taste and smell from COVID, which for all of us food-loving people here on the podcast is a nightmare. I mean, dying from COVID is pretty bad. Losing your taste and smell, oh, Nelly. And our good friend Dave Keckner, as we've talked about before, the great actor and funny human being,

it's been over a year that he has not had. Hopefully when he gets his vaccine, hopefully she'll give us some answers. H. Claire Brown, she'll be coming up a little later. And then we're going to get a quick bite with Joe Coy, who has a new book out called Mixed Plate. It's his story of his life as a Filipino-American, super funny guy.

I brought him bread a whole bunch of times. He is just a great spirit, a great funny person. So we're going to get on the phone and grab a quick bite with Joe Coy. So we're packed. We have a lot going on. I'm not going to go into too much about what I've been eating and preparing over the last week, although I did have an opportunity to take another run at Carbonara. It did not have guanchale.

It had pancetta. There is a difference. The guanchale, it's just better. I guess it has a little more flavor and a little more fat, probably. But the panchetta was pretty good. but the biggest part of, you know, we've been on this Carbonara quest, and my buddy, Mateo Lane, has been kind of our spiritual guide. I did not call him.

I figured I got enough from him. Let's simplify this. Let's just be basic about it. Get those egg yolks and pecorino cheese. That's it. And just mix those together and just keep your eyes open and have an idea of what is going to give you the right balance. And I have to say, well, not perfect.

It was pretty damn good. So the Carbonara quest continues. And I recommend you try it as well. All right, let's not waste any time. Let's get Erica Rhodes on the program. She has a new special coming out. My Vien Rhodes off of Erica Rhodes. She's super talented, super funny, and just a delightful person.

So enjoy this conversation with my good pal, Erica Rhodes. Hi, Erica. Hi, Tom. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having me. So I didn't know what your ethnicity was. I mean, we've been friends for a long time. Yeah, at least a year.

But nothing really pops out. I figured maybe something Nordic. I didn't know what kind of food to get you. So then I just got you treats. Oh, I love treats. I got you this beautiful French bread. Aw. Because I feel like you don't eat enough.

There was like the part of a... Oh, that's very sweet of you. There was the part of my Italian grandmother that was like, who would always say, well, you stop it, you don't eat enough. I wish I had someone like that in my family. Yeah. I was like, you just need to eat in general. So I got you some cookies.

Oh, that's so nice. And some meringue. I don't know. I wasn't going to get the meringue, but then when I saw the meringue, I was like, they kind of remind me of you. That's funny. Morang reminds me of my grandmother, actually. She always made meringue pie, lemon meringue pie.

Really? Yeah. All right. Well, these are for you. You can have those. Thank you. Wow. I feel like you should eat more.

That looks really good. Well, I ate plenty during quarantine. Did you? Yeah. Did you make your own food? Debatable. I'm supporting. That was the whole thing.

I'm supporting all these businesses by ordering Postmates 20 times a day. Yeah, exactly. I'm helping the, the, the economy. I was thinking that the other day. I'm like, I think they survived. Like, why am I still ordering every day, ordering, like, $100 and tipping 25%. My problem was I went to the grocery store a lot.

You did? Yeah, but the overpriced one. Oh, yeah, the fancy one. Yeah. Well, that's good, though. Because I just like the little, you know, juices and the fresh made stuff. You know, they are more expensive, but they are better. Yeah.

You know, there's a little more, some of the cheaper ones in our area, the produce is... I know the avocados are just never that great. It's a little mangy. Yeah. They're just not good. So, yeah, the produce is always good where I go. Yeah, that's why I, yeah, same. And you can text them, you can text them and be like, you know, I don't think this was supposed to be $30.

You can? Yeah, and then they'll call you and they'll be like, we made a mistake. Oh, really? Yeah, they really give you a lot of attention. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Because I have been in a waiting game with them. Because there is this one granola that's really good.

Are you talking about the same place that I'm talking about? Does it rhyme with Melson's? No. Oh. Different one. Does it rhyme with mole moods? No. Hmm.

Should I tell you? Yeah, tell me. Aeroon. Aeroon? Yeah. I don't even know Aeroon. You don't? No.

You're missing out. Really? Yeah. Oh, boy. But it's overpriced. I mean, I admit this. Yeah. Yeah.

And you think that it's better than Melson's? Well, I never got into, see, I'm not, I don't buy a lot of meat and things like that. So I feel like Gelson's is good for meat. Is it? Yeah. I never. Oh, that's not what you get there? I'm going for the produce.

Oh. Mm-hmm. I bet they're about the same. Okay. I don't know from these people because I would love to text the people at Malsons. I don't know why. Why can't you call it Gelson? Can't I just say Gelson's?

Because I've been in a waiting game with them because granola is usually like $6, $7 for a bag of granola. And there's a whole bunch of them. And then there's this one that came out. I forget the name of it. It's woman owned. It's the best granola I've ever had. And it's $10 a bag. And I just, I'm like, that's normal though. That's normal for good granola.

Yeah, but all the other granolas are six, seven dollars. The whole like area of granola. Well, why do you like the more expensive ones? Because it's so good. Well, that's why it's $10. I'm not paying it. But don't you think it's worth it to pay like four extra dollars for the exact thing you want? It is good. It's worth it. But it really feels like they're, it feels like something's wrong. I want to be able to text them and ask.

I mean, Arawan's granola is like 15. 15. No. Really? Yeah. Geez, Louise. Maybe I should go to Gelson's and get the granola that you're not getting because you think it's expensive.

It's actually not. So what is your ethnicity? Half a Russian Jew on my dad. side and then half Swedish on my mom's side. Oh. A tiny bit of English on my mom's side too. Oh. That's a fun combo.

So what was the food in your house? Choose your own adventure. Mom didn't cook. She did a little bit. I'm trying to think what she made that I liked. You have to think about it. No, she made things that were good. On holiday, she made spinach balls, which were like, I think that's Swedish.

influenced. Oh, okay. Really good spinach balls. Spinach balls? Like a meatball with spinach? Well, no, yeah. Yeah, no meat. Yeah, no meat because she's a pescatarian.

And so then I turned pescatarian later too. You did? Yeah, so I don't eat meat. When did you? How old? 21. Mm-hmm. Why?

I just never really liked meat and then I ate chicken once and I was just like, eh. What am I doing? I dated two guys who were vegetarian. back to back too, so that probably influenced me and my mom. Right. But no problem with the fish. No, I love fish. You do?

I love salmon. It's like one of my favorite foods. I ordered a thing of salmon during the pandemic. It's like a giant box of salmon from like Norway. And it's great. And it comes in like these little individual things. But you do reach a point where. you start to see salmon in your dreams.

Really? Yeah. Wait, is it smoke salmon or is it just? No, it's just these little fillets and then you just cook them. Now, how do you recommend cooking salmon? Because that's one thing I'd like to learn how and I'm not good at it because I always overcook it. Mm-hmm.

And I don't really have a proper oven. So how would you cook it over the stove? What do you mean by a proper oven? I don't have one. Maybe you should stop spending 50 bucks on granola and get yourself an oven. Well, I'm probably going to, like, move before that happens, you know, like, I live in, like, a little guest house. Uh-huh. And I have everything else I need.

I've got, you know, a stove. I've got a toaster. Right. And you can turn the to into a pseudo oven if you need to. Right. But I don't really have a typical oven. Right. At the moment.

How long you've been in this guest house? A year. A year? Mm-hmm. I think you were moving. Yeah, I think I told you I was moving. I was moving in the middle of the pandemic. But I was so glad because my old apartment was not good.

Did you live in a haunted place? Yes. Right. That's what I remember. Yeah, it was creepy. Something creepy happened there. Yes, someone committed suicide. In that apartment?

Not in mine, but in the building. In the building. Well, I was there. While you were there. But it already had felt haunted before that. Right. It was haunted and then it felt more haunted. Oh, geez.

After that happened, a lot of weird things. stuff happened and it felt like. Like what? Well, we had the reason I signed the lease to begin as was a manager was this amazing woman who seemed kind of like a Mary Poppins type. Like she really took care of the lobby and she knew what was going on and she really cared about the place. And right after the suicide happened, she quit mysteriously.

She just sort of announced she was quitting. And for a variety of reasons. And then after that, every manager after was just completely inept. And the whole building started to decay and they had all these water plumbing issues and just the whole thing was, yeah. And Mary Poppins didn't like give you a hint on the way out like before she took off with her umbrella like, hey, there's trouble a coming. She said it in her eyes. She did. Yeah, she kind of, she had a meeting with us all and she was kind of like, yeah, I just don't like how things are going.

Oh, really? And she actually moved across the street. She moved to a house across the street. And just watch the decay. Yeah. And I would text her once in a while like, please come back. Please. That's funny.

You seem to have text relationships with a lot of people that normally you don't have text relationships with like supermarkets. Yeah, that's true. Managers. I've always depended on the kindness of strangers. Well, the guesshouse sounds delightful. It's great. And I live behind a comic and his wife.

And like, it's perfect. They're my friends. Oh, really? Yeah. Do I know them? Am I friends with them? His name's Matt Ritter. He's a comic, but he's veered more into writing.

Right. So he's like a screenwriter. So is it okay being close to people that you know and like? Like sometimes you just want to like come in and even like, like, oh. It's like perfect. Is it? Because they, mostly we keep to ourselves, but then once in a while they'll invite me over for dinner and talk about good cooking.

They are both great. Really? They are so good. It's inspiring. Really? Mm-hmm. Really talented. Oh, that's good.

What do they make you? Everything, like fish and they get their fish at the farmer's market. They do. Really fresh, really good. Mm-hmm. And then they've made yuki and you have different pasta dishes. Nice. Sometimes, like, yeah, I don't know, all sorts of stuff.

Because they have an oven. I'm sure they'd let me use their oven. if I really wanted to. You could make the salmon in your toaster oven. Yeah? Yeah, probably. What do you recommend? I put it in tin foil.

Yeah. Okay. Just some little garlic and butter and lemon. And put it in foil and how long usually? Throw it in there. In a proper oven like 15 minutes. Okay. In your oven about two and a half days?

You would laugh at my setup because I have to take the, So the toaster is above the fridge and I have to take the toaster and then put it on the table on the opposite side of my kitchen. And then I have to plug it in down, but like it barely reaches. So then I have to put the, I don't know, the outlet thing up higher. And so it's like dangling off and then it's just very awkward. Sounds dangerous. It sounds like New York apartment living. Yeah, kind of.

Yeah. It's funny because it's like the setup's perfect for me. me like I don't really need a huge place. Right. But just the cooking is a little bit challenging. That's funny. But if you're going to supermarkets, you worry cooking during all this. I mean, I make a lot of salads and I do make like eggs and things like that.

Right. But I don't, I'm not that ambitious with other things. I did recently try to make like this like stir fry type thing. But then I think soy sauce gives me a headache because it's too much sodium. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know? And so that, I was like, I don't think that's something I want to make. Yeah, I made something.

I was like, why is my stir fry so boring? What are you making it? Just like, usually just tofu and broccoli and. That sounds great. Rice and, yeah, but it was like, I could just tell from everyone in the house, like, all right, stir fry night. You know what I mean? Do you put just soy sauce or do you put like a bunch of?

It was just soy sauce. So then I looked up, because I'm, I never really paid attention to Asian cooking. Like I would always just get that out. I love it. I love it too, but what do they do? I never really got into it. So I found one recipe for tofu and broccoli,

and it was two different soy sauces, this other sauce, rice wine vinegar. Right. There was like a hoison. Oh yeah, that's what I. had too. That also kind of gives me a headache. By the time all that combination was done, it was tasted pretty good, looked better, but a lot of sodium like you feel at the end of it,

like. Yeah, a lot of salt. Yeah. I, uh, I don't know. Not too good. Did I tell you about the time that I did order. I think this is why I haven't ordered more on, um, yeah, postmates. What happened? I ordered from my vegan, um, Well, actually, this isn't Postmates. This is just the place I went to. It's a vegan Thai place, and I went there all the time. Yeah. There were bugs in the brown rice.

Bugs? Bugs, and I kept eating it because I convinced my, because I called them, and I was like, there are these little brown things in the rice. Like, what could it be? And they said, oh, yeah, they said something like, that's probably a, that's probably part of the herb or something like that. Or it could be basil. And I was, okay. And I kept eating.

And then later I was like, I think they have legs. No. I was like, I think these have legs. And I had kept eating it. And then I was finally like, these are definitely bugs. Jeez, Louise. Definitely ate a bunch of bugs. Oh.

And after that, I was like, I can't, I couldn't eat Thai food for like six months. Oh. And I love Thai food. And it was vegan. So it's even more ironic that they had bugs in it. Yeah. Because. Right.

Exactly. They're being so thoughtful, and then there's just killing insects. Yeah, it was bad. I find that a lot of vegans really hate bugs, though. I feel like they take out their aggression. Yeah. I find that I feel like they're trying so hard to be nice to the animal kingdom. Yeah.

And it kind of goes against the human nature. So then when they see insects, they just go to town. Really? That's interesting. They get very aggressive. They're like. I have had to kill them. a bunch of spiders this year. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was pretty fearless. What's your method?

Just, I just go, sorry, sorry. Well, at least, I do say sorry. I feel bad as I'm doing it. Sorry, sorry. I had risotto in a New York restaurant, a pretty nice place. It was kind of a fancy showbizzy dinner with a bunch of people. And I found, um, I think it was roach, some kind of bug in my risotto. The risotto was so good. I was like, just get it out of there and I'll just keep eating it. Are you serious? Everyone was like, no, no.

And I had to pretend that I was grossed out by it, but I kind of wasn't. Really? I was like, yeah, something fell in, it got cooked. And everyone was like, no. And they were coming out and like making sure. You're very zen, though. We were talking about meditation that you do a lot of that. I do.

And I'm thinking of doing it too. Well, we talked about this a couple of weeks ago. What do you mean you're still thinking about? Well, I texted your guy and he didn't text me back. What? Yeah. Hmm. Did you drop my name?

Yeah. Maybe he doesn't get texts. Maybe he's a real meditation guy. Who knows? You know, it's going to be interesting as we come out of COVID. It's going to be interesting to see who's still there. That's terrible. I know, but it's true.

I was thinking it's like a high school reunion where you're like, what did this year do to you? It's like an entire, you know, lifespan went by. And it's like, what did life do to you this year? You're all coming out. Like, everyone looks a little bit shell-shocked. Yeah, just like a little different.

I saw Alec Baldwin had some like long post on his Instagram last night. He was just like pontificating outside this house that he bought in the Hamptons years ago. and he was being very earnest and COVID's just changed every molecule of my being. I was just like, oh, really? I almost felt like, I almost felt like, did I handle it too well? Like, what do you mean? Yeah, what do you mean it changed every? Like, what do you mean changed everything?

How? Yeah, like to the point where he doesn't want to live in the house that he was in, that he loved and adored for 30 years. And it's just like, ah, it just changed everything. I got to get out of here. And I was just like, what? Really? Like, things were so difficult for him?

Or so, like, yeah, like, so. What did he go through? I don't know. You know, it's one of those things where, and I'm not saying this is the case with him, but it's almost like when people are super smart, like really smart, they don't let themselves off the hook when things happen. You know what I mean? Like, there's a writer actually for The New York Times,

and his writing keeps going to this kind of, a somber place. And I'm like, come on. Like, let's go. It's been a year and a half. Let's, let's kind of rally. What are you doing? I know. But they almost like they're so intelligent that they actually see clearly the end of times. You know what I mean? Right. It's almost like their brains aren't, aren't helping them out. But you're saying this as though you're not super smart, but you are super smart. No. Yes. No. Yes. I have enough dumbness in me to be like, or naivete or just hopefulness. Yeah, well, but hope isn't a bad.

That's not, that shouldn't just be attributed to people who aren't as smart. No, I. That should be a sort of like human nature quality, like, about perseverance, you know? Should be a little bit more. Yeah. Like about someone who wants to rise above it. Oh, I think it's, like, oh, I don't know what's going on. I know.

Yeah. Well, look, I, don't you think that it's, yeah, you're better off just being like, well, yeah, analytically, this is very impactful and a lot of lives of whatever. And maybe it does, maybe it does mean like, you know, the end of everything that we knew. But there has to be an element of just blissful ignorance. And it's not even, or maybe even. That's my phone. Oh, is it?

It's a cool ring. It is. I think it's just a generic ring. Is it? Yeah. Sorry. That's very unprofessional. I like it.

It's fine. That's hope calling. Maybe it's Alec Baldwin calling. But no, I think that it's like you're supposed to rise above it. You know, you're supposed to find what's good or what we learned in a good positive way, hopefully. A hundred percent. I'm with you. I think that those people are too complicated.

Haven't you met people that are just too? Oh, yeah. And I feel like I get in that mode sometimes too. You do? But yeah. But then I also have that naive side of me that can sort of shut everything out. Yeah. I think you need it.

Yeah. I think you truly need it. And, you know, as comedians, it's like, it's kind of the point is that you don't take any of it that seriously. Exactly. Like when I meet people that are super sincere, hear really bothers me. Really? Like in their relationships and they're just like want to discuss how they're doing in the

relationship. That was the funny thing about clubhouse. Did you ever go on Clubhouse? No. The app that like they invented just in time before we opened up again. Oh, was that the one where everyone was speaking? Audio. Yeah.

It's just audio. And you would go into these rooms and you, and you would just hear people so serious about everything. Yeah. Just like, how is ever, like there would be no humor at all. It would be like, this is why, you know, this is what you need to do in Hollywood. Like there's a lot of like advice stuff. And no humor at all.

Why? It's just sad. Do you think that's how most people live? Yes. I mean, I'm afraid so. I mean, that's according to that app. It felt like, whoa, there are so many serious people. That app, the idea for that app was so repulsive to me that I,

I didn't even, like normally I'll check them out. That one was just like, there's no way that everyone getting together and just listening to people yammer on. I did a joke one with my friend Aaron where we pretended we wrote a play. And then we had actors improvise it, but like it was like acting like they were acting out the play we didn't write. And so we would just give them a topic and then they would improvise badly. And then we would do a Q&A after.

And so improv already was ridiculous when it's just audio. And then at the end, we'd be like, how did that make you feel? Like, what did you feel about all the, like, you know. Were people sincere about it? Oh, well, like over the top, though. Oh, right, right. Like, that was a joke. Right.

You know? I feel like that's the only way to do it is to just make fun of the app in a way. Yeah. That's how I felt. That's whenever people are that way, I'm always waiting for the joke. Right. Like when Alick Baldwin was talking? I was literally like, when's he letting us off the hook?

Yeah. When's you're going to be like, yeah. It's what I'm, I always listen for that too, because it's too much otherwise. It's way too much. Too much pressure. I know. I was like, what do you do? Yeah, you wanted to like call him and be like, cheer up, little guy.

You'll be okay. Or did you ever watch Kevin Spacey's video or he's on a bench and he's like talking about how tough everything's been for him? And then it's like a suicide hotline thing and there's like no humor in it. Oh, God. And it's also his first video. you know back oh and was that the one and he's still doing like the accent of the character who's playing yeah something like and it was just so serious you're like you really need an outlet don't

you like you really need this yeah i don't understand the uh i just know it would not be healthy for me to no walk around like not seeing what the laugh is in all of it yeah you know there's always a laugh. Yeah. Eventually. But there were, there was definitely a lot of people during this whole time that were that way. And like, well, the COVID's just, it's like, who's gotten more affected than us?

Like, live performing? You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh. It's so hard. Poor Alec Baldwin. And he's in his yard and you're like, see the house behind him. It's like this gorgeous big house, this huge farmland.

And you're like, you're like, are we supposed to feel sad for? You like for Alec Baldwin? What's happening? Oh my gosh, that's depressing. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's a funny guy. So I was just waiting for the, I don't know.

I also feel like something's going on. When people post that much directly into the camera. Yeah. It's weird. I feel like they're more lonely than they should be. You know what I mean? Oh, it's a cry for help. A little bit.

They're like, is anyone out there? Do you see me? Yeah, there's people I know in that house, but I'm going to talk to you instead. That's what I always, I always have a theory about social media that people are like actually subconsciously just talking to one person they know all the time. Like every time they post, it's like aimed subconsciously at like somebody. Right. Even if it's like a metaphorical, like it's like a person that represents a thing. They're not really talking to everyone because if you actually have.

thought you were talking to all the people that follow you or watch you, that you'd be a lot more careful what you say. Right. They're just talking to whoever. Yeah, they're just thinking of that one person and it's kind of aimed at that person. So maybe he was like, his video was like aimed at someone. Yeah. Dad, are you out there?

You're right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh. The constant analyzing of what your mental state is is troubling. Yeah, well, that's why I think the meditation thing's interesting, because I think the whole point of that is to, like, not get so attached to your thoughts or your feelings.

Like, it doesn't matter that much. No, exactly. You know? Yeah. Oh, I'm so upset that he didn't text you back. Oh, no. Well, I was going to try calling him because I thought maybe that would be a better method because I don't know.

Or maybe he changed his phone number. How weird that a transcendental meditation person is causing you, stress. Well, he's causing you stress. I was fine. Now he's causing me stress. But I do want to do trans because, you know, when somebody gave me sort of a, you know, quick rundown of how it works and I tried it even though I was cheating.

I know because you need to go and do the thing. Well, yeah. And I just tried it with the meditation, with the thing they gave me, the mantra they gave me. Yeah. I was like, the way that they teach it is different than any other method. It is. It's much more creative. And easier.

Yes. It's more simple. Yes. That's the big thing. Like I always messed around with it like from college on reading in books and hearing from people of like different ways of meditating. Like one was sit like it's too complicated. One was like sit. Picture yourself sitting on the bottom of a river in the river bed like under the water.

And your thoughts are. contained in these bubbles that are rising up to the surface. And just watch them as they go up to the surface. And then your next thing is thinking about your mom. And you see that bubble and just watch it go all the way. I'm in water. I'm underneath. I'm not breathing.

I'm watching bubbles with my mom in it. I don't know what's happening. It's too many visuals. Too much. Too much. Way too much. TM is just. just so simple.

Yes, that's what I love about it when I tried it, you know, like. Yeah. And I like that it tells you it doesn't do that thing where it says, uh, let it go. It says, it actually says follow it, right? Follow your thoughts. Don't, right. Don't try not to think it.

And like angrily bring yourself back from having these random thoughts. You're going to have random thoughts. Exactly. But I love the idea of like following it. Where does it go? And then you get into this uncensored place creatively where you're like, oh, I've got all these ideas. Yeah. And it's very interesting.

Sometimes your mind will be really racy and it will go through all of this. But invariably at some point during the 20 minutes, you just realize that they've kind of stopped or they've gotten fewer. Right. You've explored all of them. Yeah. Because sometimes your brain just has to go work out all of this stuff. Right. But it's that thing of not being like dragging yourself back to not thinking. That never works.

That never works. Because then I get into judgment. Like why can't I not think? And I can't stop thinking. That's what everyone does. Yeah. And then you hate it, you know. Right.

And you know. And you hate yourself. Yeah. Yeah. It's not. Yeah. I don't think it's intuitive at all. It's not.

It's not. It's not. So that's why I liked the idea of TM. It's also the most effective. Whatever it is, it's just like I can't. I can't really analyze exactly why, but I know that how I feel throughout the rest of my day is better. Yeah, it just works.

Where the other ones were like, it was good in the moment or I feel like a little bit more relaxed or something. This is just has long-term effects on your days. Yeah. When you initially joined, did you go somewhere in L.A.? In L.A. Yeah. Did you go to a plate?

Yeah, where this guy who I could be in the other. number. I went and met with him. Oh. Where'd you get his number? From a friend. Oh. Who had gone. I hope he's okay. I do too. You're like he swims with dolphins. He sounds so cool. I know. He swims with dolphins. And he, uh, yeah.

And he was, he was in Hollywood or West. When have you talked to him last? Like a year ago. You better check on him. make sure he's okay. Yeah. I'm sure he's fine. But I think that we need to find out who's going to talk to you. See, that's the thing though.

It's like when you say you're cheating because someone gave you a mantra and you just did it. Yeah. They're not like magical people. He studied it and stuff. So the mantra he gave me, this was always my thing with it. It was like, once I just learn about it, aren't I good to go? Can I just do it? Yeah.

It was just hearing him explain it. kind of just get you into a better understanding of it. But it's not like when they pick your mantra, like, you know, they do like a little ceremony and they're like, they give you this word. Yeah. Couldn't I give you a word? Well, that's what my friend said.

He gave me the, he gave me a mantra. Yeah. You know? Then you're probably good to go. I mean, it's always good to hear from somebody else. I don't know why I like the idea of it being this. official thing. I know.

It feels kind of like. Yeah. But like where he's just a person. But where'd you get your mantra front? From him. But did you give him information about yourself? No, we just talked and hung out. And it was like four days like an hour each time.

And what did you do during that hour? Just talk about it? I don't even know. I forget. It was like $500? Yeah. So you're. telling me don't spend the money.

No, you should. Oh, really? Yeah, because you know what it is? There's like, yeah, because there's this, there's this feeling that there's always a nagging feeling. Yeah, like you didn't do it the right way. Exactly. Exactly.

And you don't want to be thinking of that while you're meditating. Right. It's worth it just to have peace of mind. Like, I did it the right way. Yeah. I'm good. Yeah. I got it from the dolphin guy.

Do you do it twice a day like they tell you to do? Yeah. You do? Every day? Yeah. Wow. I did it once a day for a long time. And then I started doing it twice, which is like just after you wake up.

20 minutes? 20 minutes. Wow. See, I was doing it once a day for a while and I did notice it was helping. Then I've really fallen off the wagon. I have only missed two days since I started. What? Mm-hmm.

Wow. Just because I was busy running around and let it slip. See, you're saying like, oh. these people are so smart. That's why they're so tortured. And maybe if they found some form of meditation that helped them, they wouldn't be so tortured. Yeah.

No, but I think that their brains, look, I'm not saying that they're better than us. I think they're worse off than us. Like, I've seen people end up dead because their brains couldn't shut off. You know what I mean? No, I know, but you're attributing it to like an intelligence thing. and I'm saying it's unhinged intelligence. It's intelligence.

Unharnessed. Unharnessed. Yeah. Unhinged. Unhinged. What are you reading now? What am I reading? Because you turn me on to...

Oh, yeah. The Moscow book. Gentleman in Moscow. Which was so good. It was one of my favorite books in the last couple of years. It is such a good book. So good. Did you read the other book?

one by him? Amber Tolls? I have not. Is that? Amortol. Amortolz. Right. He's such a good record. The rules of civility. No, have you read that? I did. You did? It's not as good as Moscow, in my opinion. But I'm also, I love being in a hotel, so I like the idea of someone. Yeah, I love the description. Yeah. And you can feel the claustrophobia sort of. You can feel like, oh, you can't leave. But also liking it. Yeah, and I loved the girl Nina. Yeah. It was beautiful.

Popping up in the secret rooms. It took me a little while to get into it in the beginning. It was a little bit descriptive at the beginning, and then it just took off and it was such a beautifully written book. And civility is the same thing. It has those same elements. It almost, they both kind of have that thing of, of like the cleanliness or the accuracy of the dialogue of like,

when you watch like old movies. Yes. Like every social interaction is so clean. Yes. We start it. We have a funny back and forth. And then someone always just wraps up the conversation in the perfect way. Yeah.

Well, that'll be wonderful. Exactly. Erica, I'll see you in the just out. It's like, oh, like they know whatever, an uncomfortable situation. Yeah. A romantic one. A fight. Whatever it is.

They're just always, the dialogue is so crisp and you feel like life is orderly. Right. And I felt like that's what he captured in those books. Yeah, I wonder how you learn how to write like that in this age, you know, because it's so stylistically different than what we normally are exposed to. It's so different. Yeah.

It's not like movies now and it's not like books now. So he must read a lot of classic fiction. Right. I know. There is that thing. And sometimes I try and impart that in my own life of, like there are. there's a real benefit to manners that have been taught and passed on.

Like there's just follow those rules and you'll get through it rather than just being in a conversation and just saying something awkward and walking off. Like it's like, no, if you just follow the rules of how you're supposed to say hello and goodbye. Yeah. It actually, we need it. Right. We're hairy clods. We don't know.

Like, follow the rules. Yeah, it is. There's something kind of nice about it. A hundred percent. When a writer captures that. But it's hard to live that way. Oh, yeah. Like even, even, I've been trying to toast.

Uh-huh. Like, have a moment of like a toast. Like, if you're with some friends and, and, uh, you'll be like, think of something to say that would be a good little toast at this moment. Right. I can't tell you how no one has the patience for. Like, as soon as you, I raise a glass, he'll be like, a toast. it. Cheers.

Oh, no. Yeah, it's a very difficult thing to get a toast in because we're not in that rhythm. It isn't that thing. Wow. Yeah. So when you raise a glass, people immediately hit the glass. Yeah, they're just like a toast. Cheers, cheers, cheers.

Oh, no. Or you start to make a toast. I like to make a toast to Erica. Cheers, ting, ting, ting. I didn't even say why we're toasting Erica yet. Yeah, that's terrible. Yeah. But I think that's what his.

books are so why they're so enjoyable is it's slowing the this everything down it's giving a little kind of mannerly weight of so anyway what are you what are you reading now anything well i kept trying to read billy bud and i am just not having luck with that my it was my my dad told me to read it because he you know he read like 73 classic novels and wrote a one-line synopsis of each right and so when he was dying i was like like, what do you recommend I read? And he's like, Billy Budd. And then he's like, poor Billy.

Poor Billy. And I was like, really? I should read Billy Bud and he's like, yeah. Was that his favorite? I don't think so. But now I feel like it was a big joke because it's so hard to read. Like, I feel like he was just kind of like messing with me. Oh, really?

Yeah, a little, I think he liked it. I think part of him, I think he kind of knew it would be a tough read. Oh, right. Because when he said it, he said it sort of with a twinkle in his eye, kind of like, really, but, you know, like, good luck with that. But he did like Melville a lot. He did. Yeah. It's hard, though.

Have you tried reading Moby Dick or? I did. Years ago, though. Yeah. I feel like that's a book you ask, have you tried reading it? Like, it's polite to say that rather than have you read it? Yeah. Have you made an attempt?

Yeah, it's probably one of those that everyone lies about having read. Yes. What's so great about that, though, it's like, that's 73 books, and they're all classics. Yeah, it's amazing. And then you roll into like a Barnes & Noble and you're like, you pick up the latest whatever. Yeah, that's one thing my mom said that was nice about my dad, which is she's like, he never wasted time on things that weren't great. Like he didn't listen to music that wasn't great. Right.

He didn't read books that weren't great. He just went straight for the best of everything. So smart. Yeah. You didn't waste time. I'm going through that with my daughter right now who's in a Kardashian run. Uh-huh. You know what I mean?

And that's fine. If you want some bubble gum, everyone likes to chew on some bubble gum once in a while. Right. But that's like the only diet is that kind of stuff. Uh-oh. It's like that and whatever else. And I'm like, we have to make her watch good movies. Yeah.

We have to expose her to whatever. How old is she? 15 going on 16. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's kind of a prime time. Yeah, she's got a... For figuring out your taste and what you actually like. It's hard.

Anything that feels like it wasn't made in the last five years, she's like, nope. I just talked to a girl who was 25 who had barely, didn't really know who Johnny Carson was. Yeah. Like no idea. Right. I was like, whoa. Yeah. That's it.

It's scary. I know, that's it. It's kind of, yeah, it's kind of over. Yeah, that's scary. Comedy doesn't last. But, you know, even great actors, too. I bet she doesn't know. Yeah, a lot of great actors.

Or even, or music, I bet she doesn't know who Neil Young is. Mm-mm. No. Oh, my gosh. What music does she listen to? She listens to a lot of dance. She's a dancer. Okay.

So there's a lot of moody, Billy Eilers. kind of music. I was making fun of Billy Ilish in my act this week. Were you? To me that's what it sounds, you know, it sounds like kind of like like ha ha ha ha ha.

It's true. This is the biggest pop star of our generation, of this generation. They're so moody. But it's just, it's not really singing either, you know, it's not like a sound that I,

that like hits me. Yeah. Like it's not like a like, it hits a teenage girl though. It hits a teenage girl though. It hits a, teenage, I want to just feel sad for a while for no reason, kind of a moment. The moody, the moody.

Which I get, you know. But every time I listen to it, I'm like, where's Lord? What happened to Lord? Lord had depth. I really felt, you know, what did happen to Lord? I don't know, because there's like six copies of Lord out there now who are all popular. I thought that girl really had depth. She had something, you know, gritty about her.

Where's Lord? What happened to Lord? She's just throwing darts at a Billy Eilish dartboard or something. right now. And now they go back and try to save Brittany all of a sudden, like, that's the whole thing. And then I see Britney on TikTok. I'm like, I don't know. Should she really be in control of her own money? I mean, maybe if the dad's a bad guy, all right, but I don't know. I was thinking, I was like, we don't really know. Yeah. She's not rolling into Citibank and making the right choices. Yeah, it's like if we're not saving a previous pop star, then like, can they still have a career?

Can she just be a singer? Or does she have to, does there have to be some sort of, you know, high moral story behind it? Who's making a poster save Brittany and walking around outside office buildings? Apparently a lot of people. I know. She didn't ask to be saved. Like, they're like, well, we read into it. She's, you know, she posted, she posted a sunflower, you know.

And they're like, that means she needs our help. She needs us. Yeah, that's the other thing that they say that she's not in control of her own post. hosts. So she's like in a hostage video when they're saying, when they're caught by the Vietnamese and you're saying, I'm okay. You're really blinking, you're in trouble. I think they just made this all up. Like, I don't think she's, I think she's fine. You know, like, I think she wanted to take a break. And yeah, maybe there's some issues with her dad. And in that documentary, there's only one person in the entire thing who's like, you know, maybe we should just like leave her alone.

that was like Michael Moore and it was like yeah maybe we should still leave her alone maybe we should be making documentaries about her now if she wanted them to make a documentary she would have been in it yeah she didn't she clearly had no desire to be take any part in this they're like no legally she couldn't and it's like no I think she could have and then there's like her friend from like when she was 12 is on it she's like I'm on camera like that's so exciting. I know. Right, exactly. Oh my gosh. Oh my God. Yeah, I knew her when she was five. She is very talented. You know who didn't watch that documentary? You? Your dad. My dad. Exactly. There's no way he would have watched that documentary. He would not have watched it. No. He's reading Billy Budd for the third time.

Yes. He really knew what to, yeah, he knew what to listen to. And a book is such an investment. It's like you want to know that you should like, you know. I haven't. Yeah, I should either decide to finish Billy Budd or. I was going to, oh, I brought her book, but I haven't started yet. Jenny Slate's book of short stories. Oh, yeah. I think my sister gave it to me for Christmas and I haven't. Yeah, she's funny. Wow, that was a long time ago if it was Christmas, but.

Not really. Five months ago. No. Four months ago. Aren't we March? We're at the end of March. Yeah, you're still okay. January, very March.

Okay, three months. Well, what are you reading? I just read a book of essays by Jen Spira, who's the writer, and she wrote on Colbert. I know that name, yeah. Are they good? So good. Yeah. Is it funny?

Yeah. She's really funny. Oh, cool. She's really good. She wrote this one, I forget the name of it, about a, basically about an actress from like the 20s who somehow ends up here now. And she's like this tough, brassy broad who knows. knows that you got to sleep with the studio head and saying all things of inappropriate things

about every ethnic group and just so she's like no she's just that woman from that time and is here now and it's just and totally out of place totally out of place and offending everyone but learning that some of the stuff oh maybe I don't have to have oral sex with a studio head It was just, it's really, that. That's clever. Yeah, and there's another one called The Snowman. She's just great. So I read that one.

That was really good. And then I read some of Obama's book. Oh. I read a bunch of that. Good. Very thoughtful, really, really smart, good. But now I'm kind of cut loose. Now I'm not sure what I'm going to read.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Yeah. I feel like I've read a Cedaris. I like Sedaris. So funny. Yeah. And then he recommended these two writers, so I read them. But I feel like I should read like...

A novel? Yeah. I'm writing these snippets and I'm reading these snippets and they're all good. But I feel like I need a little more. It's hard to do a short story, isn't it? That's a challenge. Yeah. I write essays.

Like my books were essays. Yeah, that's what I've been doing on my blog. Right. Short story essays. Yeah. That's easier, I mean, just because it's more personal in a way, right? Yeah, to a point, though. Yeah, true.

Then you kind of run out. Yeah. Then you're like, I'm out of that now. Does everything have to be so, everything have to be really about my life? Right. When I was reading Jen's book, it was just like so imaginative. Right. It was just, you know, completely just let your mind go off.

I watched Amy Tan's master class. And did you ever read Joy? Luck Club. It's a great book. So she was talking about that where it's like, she's like, you just, you know, you take the truth of your life, but then you just open it up to anything. And it seemed kind of exciting to write fiction. Yeah, 100%. I guess that's the same thing with stand-up where it's like you start with sort of your life and then you, then you're like, I'm sick of talking about myself. Right, exactly. Let me just go off into some other topics. Yeah. So much more freedom.

How has your writing been during this? Like, have you been, because I know you write every day. It wasn't great for stand-up because I wasn't performing stand-up, so it wasn't. I know. Like, you know, you can only carry some certain amount of jokes around that haven't been tried. Right. And it's like, what's the point? I know.

That's how I felt a little, too. You performed a lot, though. I did. You just kept going. I know. You were just like, think more than anyone. Just quietly, just, I'm leaving on Thursday. They were you going now?

I'm not good. I'm not good with downtime or just not working, I guess. Yeah, you just kept on chugging along. People are like, no, this is this third wave is the really bad one. And you're like at the Hudson News buying more gum. Yeah, I think you've done Salt Lake City. Three times. Yeah, three times.

I did all the other clubs. That makes sense. He just kept on going. Good for you. Yeah, I can't say I regret it because I've been, you know, knock on wood, I've been totally fine. Yeah. And, you know, I don't do like meet and greets after the shows and just show up and do the work. Right.

Then I leave. So you must have been still writing stuff. Yeah, but I still feel like I hit roadblocks a little bit with it. Just because we're not doing as much. So I felt like I wasn't experiencing that much. Like I'd be like, I've been watching this. You know, like I started getting a lot of material like watching this. documentary and that documentary.

I know. Being home is really crazy. I know. And now it's funny because when you go out, you'll notice if you go out on the road and you're like, things are getting back to normal. They just stare at you like, what do you mean? Nothing has changed.

Because for them. They didn't have a huge lockdown like we did, you know, and they've been back pretty much for the past five months. And they've been working. And so when you say that, they're all like, huh? Oh, really? Yeah.

Interesting. Are they wearing masks in Salt Lake City? Yeah. I mean, pretty much everywhere I've gone, they're wearing masks. Right. But they've just been going to restaurants. But they've still been, yeah, doing their life stuff. Is that weird? Yeah, it's odd. It's odd that like in some places you weren't allowed to eat inside and some places were. And when L.A. was totally locked down and you couldn't even eat outside. That was kind of a strange time. That was. Man, we're obsessed with restaurants.

We really eat our food. It's really like how badly do people need to eat out? It's true. Just learn to cook. It's nicer to be home sometimes. I know. I feel like what's going to happen is as things are getting back to normal, we're going to be like, this wasn't as good as we remember.

Like none of this. Like, why did we want normal so bad? It's like, you know, there's lines now at the airport. Oh my God, I know. Like everybody's at the grocery store. It was a treat going through security at the airport. I used to have Burbank Airport to myself. Yeah.

I have to share it. I know. It really is that like, all right, you want everyone to come back? Yeah. I don't. I'd rather just keep traveling without all that. Yeah. There's no way around it though.

I know. It's coming. I know. But man, yeah, when we did that show together in Burbank, That was fun. It was fun. That was like one of the first shows, like, locally I had done. Yeah.

And you were like, you were like, I almost feel like I've got to be quiet that I'm performing on the road. Because people were, the people that weren't going. It was the people that weren't going that were millionaires already who were like, people shouldn't be performing. Yeah. It's like, what? How about I have to pay for my rent? Yeah. That's what I, I think I wrote that to, and I got a little heat from it at the beginning.

And people were like, you shouldn't be doing that. I'm like, okay, pay my rent. Here's my Venmo. Yeah, exactly. If you want to tell me what to do. Yeah. There's a club in a city that's deemed it safe. Why shouldn't I be there performing?

And I did, you know, I had to prepare that special and I wanted to like, you know, run some stuff in places. So when's the special come out? April 13th. April 13th. Yeah. All right. It's close. This is perfect.

Yeah. That's good. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah. I wasn't sicking it up for that, but it's pretty timely. Yeah. It's convenient. Yeah, that's great.

You feel them pretty good? Yeah, you know. Yeah. Oh, great. I think I'm just, yeah, tough on myself. So there's always, always things I'm like, oh, I wish, you know, I did this differently or that differently. But. you wait to make a special like you you walk around when you're not doing it thinking I want to put a special out

right then as soon as you do it you're like oh is anyone going to watch it yeah yeah yeah exactly and then they watch and you're like oh they like it okay everybody watch it right yeah I remember when my my album came out I was shocked that anyone listened to it like I was just like oh really you're listening to it oh well people are listening to it I just did this for myself yeah I thought I would just do it and it would just kind of fade You know, it was kind of shocking that. Well, it's good. You worked hard on it.

Yeah, and you gave me good advice before. You were like, slow down. I could have slowed down even more, but. Well, that was hard. I mean, you're outside. I know. It's very different performing for cars. Oh, I'm, I think I'm almost there where I will have gotten through the pandemic.

Without car? For cars, yeah. Did you do Zoom, though? I did a couple Zooms. Yeah. And then I would do like. You liked doing the one where you couldn't hear the audience? No.

That's tough. Did not like that. I just did one the same rush ticks who we did Dr. Katz with. I did one with them the night before Dr. Katz. I was scared to do a show with them because I just needed, I need to hear the audience. Well, they let you hear the audience. Oh, they do? They're the best one.

Oh, okay. Because they turned the mics on for like 20 people. Oh, good. And then you could hear it, which was such a difference because I did one for Gilda's Club and the tech was wonky. and I couldn't hear it. And I realized when I did the one where I could hear it, that I went way too fast in the other one. Right.

Because the laughs were rolling. And I could actually pause like I was in a live club. Yeah. And really wait. And I did not do that on the other ones. No, they're good. If you want to do one, I would recommend them for sure. Okay.

Yeah. But hopefully. Now I'm just doing live. Like I'm going next week to. North Carolina. Good nights. Nice. Which I love. Yeah. And then I'm going to Seattle and Oh, nice. I think May will be less busy, but. That's good. Yeah, it's interesting. It's, uh, that's another thing about opening it up and stuff. It's like in the beginning, because I did a handful also. Yeah. Through November. And then it was kind of nice. It was kind of like going through security. It was like,

oh, I'm the only one out here. This is right. Yeah. And then now it's, We're going to go back to looking on Instagram and seeing everybody performing everywhere. I know. Showing you like the arenas that they're playing. Right. Look at us. They're comeback tours that I'm still like. Yeah.

What? I've been doing this the whole time. So spinach balls. Yeah. This does look good by the way. I'm looking at it like, whoa. Yeah. It is good.

It's a nice. Is that? And you said it was a French. It's a French bread French bread Which is pretty much a white bread And then you've got cookies And now you don't have to cook tonight

This is amazing Do you have good butter? Probably you go to that fancy place Yeah but sometimes they get the vegan butter Which is not good butter It's good on toast though True I'm gonna take out my toaster for this

This is a special day Plug it in Get those books on Put it on top get a couple extension cords. You'll be making toast at no time. Sometimes I'll like notice what I'm actually, the way I actually live.

And if someone saw it, they'd just be like, well, what is she doing? And I'm like perfectly happy doing that. But it just looked like from the outside, it would look insane. Yeah. Pulling it out. Put it there.

Then pull this up. It's not good. I did get a really nice coffee maker though. And that has made all the difference in my life. Really? The kind that grinds the beans. and then, you know, does the whole thing. And it's like an espresso thing or a pour over thing?

No, it's like a pour, it's pour over, but it's, it, like you can use full bean. So it doesn't, yeah. That really makes a huge difference. It really does. Just smelling that in the morning? Yes. It is the best feeling in the world. It really is.

It completely changes everything. Yeah, because I'll put it on and then I'll shower and then I'll come out and my whole apartment will smell like coffee. It's like heaven. The best. I spoke to a writer who's going to be on this episode actually. Oh, who? H. Claire Brown.

And she wrote an whole article on the people that lose their sense of taste and smell from COVID for like a year. That's tough. And one of the things that's really offensive to them is the smell of coffee. It smells like rubber. There's like a process. It's the same as browning meat and coffee being turned into coffee. from the bean. Yeah.

That element when the heat gets that certain point, which is so the best feeling of your life. Yeah. For these poor people, it's like one of the worst. Jeez. I was convinced I had COVID. Like, I was one of those people who was like, I got it already last year. But I didn't ever notice losing my sense of taste or smell. Probably didn't get it.

I lost my appetite, though. You did? For like a week. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think you had it. Really? You just had a cranky week. No, I was like pretty sick though.

Did you get a antibody test? No, because by the time they were doing that, I would have been too late. They said it only shows up after like a month or so or a couple weeks. A friend of mine has had it really early and she still has the antibodies. Really? I guess I could get the test, but what difference? Yeah. Yeah.

Did you get it yet? No. But I got a negative test yesterday. That's good. Yeah. Why did you get to get the vaccine? tested yesterday. Because I have to do an animated thing tomorrow.

Oh, nice. And I have to go into the studio and they required it. Well, I'm going to let you go. But the continued success, you've been really kicking butt. Oh, thanks, Tom. We do have to get you TM. That's our project. Yes.

I hope this was funny enough. I feel like I was doing what you said you don't like, which is being very earnest. No, I thought we had a lot of laughs. Yeah? Yeah. What were we so serious about? I don't think so. You feel like I was kind of serious.

That was as serious as we get. We're still uncomfortable. Being concerned about how serious I was. Right, exactly. But wait, there was something else I wanted to mention. You're going to get TM. You're going to eat all your cookies. Yes, you look amazing.

Do you want one? Oh, that's what I wanted to tell you. One of the best meals on the road ever when we were in Cleveland. Oh, my gosh. It was so good. What did we order again, but everything was... I was going to ask you that. What did we order?

I don't know. We had great wine. Did we order a fish thing? I don't think so. Maybe. Are you going to go back to Cleveland at some point? I am. That restaurant is closed.

Talk about the COVID thing. You got to find out where that chef went, though. I talked to him on my radio show. You did? Yes. Lola. How many shows do you have, Tom? I don't know.

Like, I'm doing your other show in like a week. I have a lot of shows. What are you going to do when you're not performing? I know, no, you're always busy. I'm singing a Billy Eilish song about myself. Oh, yeah. Will you do it? I've got a show.

I've got a show. No, but that restaurant's gone. And I, yeah, Michael, I'm spacing on his name, Lola. It was one of the first, like, really great restaurants in Cleveland. Oh, wow. Current run. And yeah, it's done. What's your favorite restaurant in L.A.?

It was Mideo, which was this great Italian place, classic Italian place, down below Beverly. And they're redoing that whole building, so it's moved to another location. It's not the same. There's a great Italian restaurant on Larchmont. Oh, yeah? Have you ever been to any of those restaurants?

It's Italian, I think they, The pasta felt very homemade and everything. It's really good. There's another one in Culver City that's a really good Italian restaurant. Tanzanella's in the valley is really good. But yeah, I haven't been out, you know, I haven't been going to a lot of places. You haven't eaten out much? Not too much.

I've only gone out maybe three times this whole time. Yeah, I know. It's always weird to be like sitting in a crummy version of the restaurant on the curb. Yeah. It's like, I don't know. I don't know. There's something kind of nice about it. If they do it, right.

Yeah, depending on which curve. Depending on the curb. Yeah, exactly. Because a friend of mine stayed by one by a bus stop. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. I was like, well, is this worth having appetizers?

No. Not really. Just stay home and wait for it to move inside. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, you're the best.

You are too, Tom. Good luck with Billy, bud. Thank you. Yeah. I just realized we talked. about Billy Elish and Billy Budd. Oh, this is the Billy program. Yeah, the Billy theme.

But I will try to finish Billy, but it is not a long book. You posted your dad's list of those 70s. Yeah, it's such a good list. Did you read any of it? I remember seeing the list and thinking this is a great guide, yeah. It's so clever. And everything's just summed up in one phrase. That's so great.

It's very clever. Yeah, send that along because I remember seeing it and thinking this would be a good guide. Yeah, it's a good list. It's nice to read stuff that's new and like what's going on, but it's also those classic ones are just, I know. You just, like you said, like he didn't waste time. You feel like better when you're done with them.

Your brain feels different. Yeah, yeah, which we could use. You should read Joy Luck Club actually. That's a great book. I'm too busy. All right, thanks, Erica. Thanks, Tom. And now an interview with H. Claire Brown.

She is a writer. She's written for a lot of things. I found her article in The Counter, which is a really good food-based site. They talk about all different issues about where we get our food, how we get our food, all of the politics and troubles involved with the things that just seem to appear on our plates. But there's so much going on in the mechanisms behind it all. But we're going to start off speaking specifically about insomnia, these poor people, that have lost their taste and smell from COVID and don't get it back. So enjoy this interview with H. Claire Brown. Well, thanks so much for being here.

You're a great writer. I have so many questions. I want to talk to you about the COVID insomnia, the no smell, no taste article that you wrote. But I also, if you don't mind, if we could touch on some other stuff, because this is a food and comedy. podcast primarily. And there's so many interesting things going on in food distribution and how we live and all these kind of things. If we could touch a little on that at the end, that would be

super cool if you're up for it. Yeah, of course. All right, great. So your article was terrifying. It was, I had just met with my pal Dave Kekner, who's the really funny actor from the office and Anchorman and he's just this great guy. And he let it be known that he hasn't had smell or taste for a year. And everything tastes like tin. And then I saw your article and it was even scarier than he was describing. Yeah, we started hearing, you know, early in the summer and then much more in the fall from chefs and food professionals who were losing their sense of smell. And, you know, there's estimates that like 80% of people who have COVID lose smell at some point, but most tend to get it back in a week or two.

Right, right. And how, do you have a handle on what percentage are these long haulers where they just lose it for a long time? So I couldn't find any estimates for the United States at all. Again, I think this is really kind of an emerging issue still. There was one estimate really early on. I want to say it was like in May in the UK that estimated 100,000 people in the country would end up with a long-term smell loss. But judging by the number of people who have kind of joined Facebook groups

and have contacted the charities that support people, who have lost taste and smell. It sounds like there's quite a few people who have been impacted. Yeah. I mean, it's, I think the thing that really terrified me was the tying of it to that pastry chef and the vegan chef. I hadn't, I just thought about regular people losing their sense of smell, but then when your livelihood is dealing with food and your passion and everything that you, your heart and soul that you put into the world of food and flavors for those people, it's really got to be maddening. Yeah, yeah.

I actually, I talked to two pastry chefs for this article, and one of them just could not work for a long time because he didn't trust anything that he was making. You know, you swap in the sugar for the salt, and if you don't bake it and something doesn't happen texturally, you wouldn't necessarily know that you may be sick. Jeez, Louise. It was the vegan chef, I think, in the article. She was saying that for her the joy was even more was the taking the cookies out of the oven, smelling it, having that even more than eating the cookie.

And I understand that because whenever I'm baking bread or baking, I just love that thing, that the house is filled with it and that that was absent from her life. Oof. Yeah. And then she had this initial period of time where she completely lost her sense of smell. And then like a lightning bolt, it came back, but everything was distorted, which she said was actually worse for her.

Ah, what do you mean? How was it distorted? So it's this condition called parosmia, which is kind of a subset of smell loss conditions, where you start to just get really intense smell distortion. So some people talk about shower water becoming something that they can't tolerate or the smell of the myelard reaction, which is the browning when you brown meat will become intolerable. And a lot of like trigger smells will become impossible to kind of grapple with. Yeah, I never I'd never heard of that reaction. The malliard reaction is the same as when coffee is not roasted.

but when coffee, the water hits the coffee, I guess. Yeah, it's basically like a catch-all term for the browning. So it releases specific chemical compounds. So, like, roasting coffee beans would be the same as browning as steak because the reaction refers to this family of chemicals that scientists believe is a trigger for parosmia. Ah. It really, I hate to make too much of it.

But when I was reading the article, it just, it was like a scary movie that just kept getting, worse. Like it was like steak, oh no. And then the coffee. And I was like, oh no. I couldn't if you if you took coffee out of my life, I don't know what I would do. Yeah, people, I think the people that I interviewed for the story said it really, really through them, especially people whose life, like you said, revolved around food. It was just kind of this very, in a time when we've all experienced a very fundamental difference to the way our daily life progresses. It was like yet another layer of profound disorientation and really loss on top of all of that.

Yeah. And it's such an interesting thing, isn't it, that the brain just has to rewire itself to try and get it back? It's like, it's this really kind of creepy. I'd watch Mars attacks last night. Remember that movie when those little aliens come and they just, and their whole heads are just brains? And I literally was thinking of your article.

because they literally, it has to hardwire itself. And that was my question that I wanted to see if I could pass on to Dave. Is it possible to train your brain to get it to like work out and try and push it so it can start to relearn or re? And is it, are they actually rebuilding the circuits? So yeah, I'll take that one thing at a time. So what happens with anosmia, they're still working on figuring out exactly what happens, but they suspect that it's actually the cells that support the neurons that are used for smell and not the neurons themselves, which is why most people get it back in a couple of weeks because those

support cells regenerate. Now, what happens with parosmia, it's like a literal rewiring. So the scientists that I talked to said that she thought that the neurons, that somehow get damaged on the path to your brain, somehow grow back and rewire and kind of basically plug into the wrong receptor in your brain. Jeez, Louise. It was so crazy when, I forget his first name, Burke,

the pastry chef, when it came back when he was eating Chinese food, and it was just like this, it almost felt like a wave hit him. Like all of a sudden, after not tasting for so long, that had to be a special day. Yeah, and I think that wave is really emotional too, right? It had been, I think for him it was four or five months total of just this incredible.

And he had a lot of other long COVID symptoms too. So it was just this very, very difficult stretch of time. And then Thanksgiving weekend, boom, it was like, we're going to get through this. Yeah. Oh, man. Well, I hope that I keep sending Dave. anything I can find. I'm like, I found these essential oils. And I'm like, I want you to use your nose like Rocky and just keep smelling each one every day. Well, it's funny you say that. That's like

the one treatment that doctors really do recommend. It's called smell training. Oh, really? Yeah. And basically you just take essential oils or some people take spices and you kind of just, there's a lot of recommendations online about how to actually smell. But the theory is that you're stimulating those neurons and that it's not going to hurt to do something like that. Right, right. Yeah, I'm like, I want you to put your nose in a sweatsuit, do some stretching and get out there and train it. Because it's really, he, he doesn't seem too mentally distraught by it, but everything tastes like tin. Everything is, it's just like, it's just an absence of it. He's not, going crazy from it, but he's just not enjoying it as much. Yeah. Yeah, I talked to a portrait artist who

said that it felt like the world had lost color. Oh, yeah. That's, yeah, that's exactly what I would think. I'm so glad I got the vaccine. Oh, man. So why did you start, how did you start writing about food? Was it something that always interest you or did you're, did you, Did it just kind of happen that you started to get more jobs that were in that department? And you kind of went down that. Or do you have a passion for food? Yeah. I was always really interested in food.

And, you know, I kind of worked on farms for a few months, realized I'm way too lazy for that kind of work. Where did you do that? I did a stint in Virginia. And then I was actually did foraging for like wild. mushrooms and stuff in Vermont for a month or two. Wow. Yeah. And, you know, it's just, I don't like nature quite enough.

You really do have to love it. It's intense work. So you figured I'll just go right about this stuff. It wasn't quite that direct, but eventually, yeah. Yeah. So when we talk about this kind of, there's kind of like this movement in in America and pretty much globally, but we'll just deal with America with these smaller farms, you know, whether they're producing meat or whether they're

producing these wheat farms or or just this sustainable ways to kind of connect a community back to their to the roots. And it all seems always seems to me so noble and always seems so instinctually correct. It seems like, well, we have these giant corporations, which I know you kind of need because there's 7 billion people looking for lunch at the same time every day. So there's got to be some way to satisfy that. But then there's other model of like using, just being a little more thoughtful and from the consumer end of it. And then these small farms and providers working into kind of like this little ecosystem. But is this, is it economically sustainable that we can go back to these small farms that

feed a smaller part of the population? Or is it just daydreaming? That's a question for the ages. You know, I think it's hard for a massive institution. like a school system or a hospital system to be able to get enough food from a small farmer too. You know, they need to be able to say, we're going to get 1,000 pounds of sweet potatoes every day.

And a lot of small farms don't know exactly when those sweet potatoes are going to be ready. They don't know how quickly they're going to get them. Right. So there's a focus on kind of re-regionalizing the food system in a way that might it's not necessarily like just tiny farms and just gigantic farms. It kind of is based on this idea that if you can kind of reorganize small farms to have access to distributors who can then serve those big institutions, then maybe that's a way to have a food system that's a little bit kinder to the environment and kinder to farm workers and kinder, you know, and better in terms of nutrition than what we have at the moment. Right. And does it seem like it's profitable enough for the powers that be to push in this direction?

You know, that's an ongoing conversation. One of the biggest things we're reporting on right now is climate change, right? So the USDA gives these gigantic, gigantic subsidies to loss and lots of farms. I think it was in the tens of billions of dollars during the Trump administration. And in the past, those have come with virtually no strings attached. The conversation now with the change in administration is, is a lot more about how can we use this money to incentivize more environmentally friendly practices.

And it still remains to be seen where that will go. You know, a lot of people say the science is still kind of out on the carbon-friendly practices that you're proposing where they say, we don't want to do this in the first place. So it's very much, I think, up for grabs. Right. Man, that's a whole other wrinkle. I mean, it's so fascinating. the struggle for the farmers has always been a puzzle to me, like from Willie Nelson's farm aid,

like from the time they started shining a light on how the profit margin is so small and all this crazy work and sitting there with, you know, tons of crops that never get used and, and all of, like, just making that business work always, it seems like on its face like it should be such a simple, you grow it, you harvest it, you sell it, you make your money, enjoy your next year. It's more complex than that. And then to throw the climate change, the environmental practices on top of that, I could see a lot of these farmers spit and tobacco out of the corner of their mouth like, you want me to do what now? Yeah, I wish I had the statistic in front of me, but it's something like the amount of a dollar that you spend on food that makes it back to the farm is so tiny now.

It used to be much simpler, you know, farmer sells to grocery store. Now it's farmer sends to package or processor, sends to distributors, sends to blah, blah, blah, and a lot of kind of money gets eaten up in that process. Right, right. What other issue besides climate change do you, are you interested in? do you think is going to be the conversation? Is it the workers? It seems like there's a lot of articles that you tend to shine a light on kind of the tough practices for workers, not just in farming, but kind of all along the chain. Absolutely. And I think, you know, COVID kind of showed a lot of people who may not have been paying much attention to the people who work in slaughterhouses,

for instance, you know, there was just so much in the news about spread at meatpacking plants and spread on farms. And there's some interesting policy movement on that, right? There's some proposal from the Democrats to grant a lot of farm workers' citizenship status over time. So folks that are already in the U.S. and working in farming would have a pathway to citizenship, which most do not currently have. So I think there is a lot of movement there.

right now in the same way that there is with climate change. Right. It's uh, it's, it's sometimes it's just so daunting like, like, when I was going through your articles, it was like, oh, I didn't even know this was a problem. I didn't even know that, I didn't know the Amazon workers have to work, live off food stamps. What's, you know what I mean? It's sometimes it's like you go about your life and you know what the big problems are. And then you're like, wait, who's abusing who now? It's got to be pretty satisfying for you as a writer to get in and start uncovering this stuff and digging up the facts on these different kind of weightier topics and making them a little more palatable for just your regular reader.

Yeah, you know, there's no end to the number of things we can write about. It's definitely more of an issue to figure out what to focus on than to find stories in general, but I've been on this beat for almost six years now, and it never ceases to amaze me how much I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, it's incredible. You're so big. So how do you feel about New York? Are you eating out? Are you eating in the little tents? My friend calls it a worse version where all these restaurants have to build a worse version of their restaurant out on the curb. Yeah, I have eaten like a picnic table style settings. I have not eaten indoors.

That feels like a little bit of a stretch too far pre-vaccine here. But some of these little outdoor tents are very, very cute. I have not eaten like enclosed little tents, but there's like New York Magazine here has done profiles on like the cutest outdoor setups. And some of them are like, really? They've got beautiful house. plants. It's painted a very pretty color. It looks amazing. Yeah, I know. They were saying that the comedy store, the comedy seller down in the village is actually going to start doing shows this week.

Whoa. Yeah, so it's going to be actually people inside. I guess they're, I guess we're, I guess maybe we're getting there. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think restaurants are at 50% here and they're talking about stadium shows and sporting events. And, you know, it's like, it feels so remote to me now that I don't actually know the day to day on what's going on with sports. It's like, you know, once I get my shot, maybe I'll start paying more attention to that. But it seems like it's moving very, very fast. Yeah, it does. It does.

It's amazing how in just a couple of weeks it went from, you heard of like one person who had the vaccine. And now it's like every other person seems to be getting it. It's pretty helpful. So what's your favorite thing to eat in? Brooklyn before you go. Oh, that's a good question. I have to think about that. There's this little Italian sub shop on the way to, on the bike ride to the beach. So I'm kind of in the center of Brooklyn and you can kind of bike straight for eight or ten miles and be at the beach. Oh, nice. And there's all these cool neighborhoods that you, you know, I normally wouldn't visit otherwise that are on the

way and there's this really amazing Italian sandwich shop called Latore pork store that I haven't been to in a couple of years now because, you know, last summer was kind of a lost summer and then maybe I went here before that. But, you know, just a kind of classic Italian sandwich. It's really, really hard to beat. Oh, that's so good. One of my favorite places in, um, in Soho is a place called Aladoro, which is the same thing. It's the, the shop is half the size of the room that you're in. There's one little line and just cranking out sandwiches. Yeah, you really, you really can't beat it. That was actually a funny thing in your article when he was talking about how he just enjoys food now when he finally got it back. Yeah. And that he was eating like a horrible sub sandwich.

He says, this is just garbage, but I'm just loving it so much. I love that. And that was so, you know, it was so relatable when he said that. I was like, oh, yeah. Like he was talking about like, he was like, I feel like I can taste the curing process that they did on the meat. And it was just his, his taste was at 11. And it was so nice to be able to hear him talk about that moment. Yeah, so great. Well, thanks for spending some time. And is there any other tip I can give, Dave, smell his oils.

And that's it, right? Yeah, I've heard that time is the number one thing. And a lot of people, you know, I will say, I interviewed a lot of people who had had it. Like there's other post viral anosmia, there's cancer related anosmia, there's head trauma related anosmia. So there's whole population of people who lost their sense of smell 10 years ago. And, you know, they're kind of silver lining in all of this was there's going to be so much research about how smell works and how smell lost works, now that there's this much bigger

population who's suffering from this. And so they were feeling hopeful that a little bit more attention would be paid to the condition and maybe that would lead to some more cures. Right, that's great. Well, you had your hand in it. Thanks for spending some time. I really appreciate it. Great. Thanks so much for having me. All right. I'll see you when I get to New York. Okay. Soon. Yeah, I can't wait. And now it's time for a quick bite with our good pal Joe Coy.

Joe, good. And how are you? I'm good. Are you okay? No, I, it's worse than that. What is it? I was doing a podcast. the other day, the intro, and then I highlighted, and we're going to give a quick call to our friend Joe Coy, because he's got a new book coming out. And then I was like, oh, my God, wait a minute, I don't know where Joe is. I was at the Grand Canyon. No way. Yes. Is that part of your book tour? You know what I did, Tom? I literally went to the bus last second. I called all the kids, all the cousins and I packed them up and we went to the Grand Canyon and now we're on our way to Sedona.

Then after we're going to Roswell to see some aliens. That's amazing. Yeah, these kids' heads are blown right now. That Grand Canyon was amazing. It was so cool. Oh, man. I haven't seen it probably in 15 years. Oh, I think every time you go and see it, it's just, it's overwhelming every time you look at it.

It's amazing. Yeah. God, that's so great. What are you guys eating along the, along the, along the way. Nothing but healthy food yesterday was french fries and uh and tacos. Nice. Good road trip.

Did you stash the bus? Oh, no. The bus is beautiful. We stat, yeah. You know, what I love is I get the kids and I've been doing this every year, but, you know, due to COVID, we could go on our annual trips. And I was just like, man, what can I do to make this fun? And this was like the best, this was the best idea. The tour bus, they all got their own bunks.

I told them whatever they want. We're going to truck stops. Run a buck. You know what I mean? Yeah. You don't get to be healthy. Get what you want. Let's use a corporate card.

We'll write it off. There is nothing. You never feel more powerful than when you take your kids or your nieces and nephews into like a 7-Eleven and just say anything you want. Yeah, you have that $3 frozen Coke. Get it? They look at you like you're a hero. Oh, yeah.

So congrats on the book. The book is going really well. Thank you so much. I can't believe it's happening. My favorite part, Tom, was going into a bookstore with my son, first time ever seeing it on a bookshelf. Yeah. I had to make sure I did it with my son.

And we went it together. It was on the shelf. We grabbed them all. We signed them. And the store put stickers on it. And we left them there. It's the best. And yeah.

And just see the people react, you know, after you post it. That's what I love on social media. You just put it up and people react. Whereas back in the day, you're like, I signed them. I hope they're not there still. Yeah. And they go back a month later. He's like, damn, they're still there.

Yeah. The funny part is when, like, after it's been. out for a while and then you go into the bookstore and you're like where is it and you see him like back in the humor section there's like two copies left yeah and then you got to like you have to grab them and bring them up to the front and stash them in front yeah we're sold out man so great that's amazing and who was the the post you were presenting the book to someone it was like a friend of yours or a family member god that's jean that's my next door neighbor oh it's your neighbor yeah we're like I love that woman so much.

She lives by herself, but, you know, we go there as much as we can to, you know, hanging out with her. Yeah, that's great. And unfortunately, when I was on the road, she, you know, she went to the hospital because she had a little bit of a stroke. Yeah. And I was just, I was just so happy to get to the hospital. You know, with COVID, only one person could visit a day.

Oh, wow. Wow. So it was like, you know, and I was so happy I got in there. she got to see the book that I've been talking about for two years. Yeah, you could tell she was so proud of you. Yeah. She looked so sweet. Just the way she was caressing the book and looking at you was so great.

It was great. You know, she got her approval because, you know, I've been talking about for so long. Man, you know, she had to be in the hospital. And I was like, I hope this makes you happy to get you out because that's all she needs right now. I was that love. Awesome. Awesome. All right, I'm going to let you go.

What have you eaten today? Joe? Joe! Man, I can't believe it. Joe's gone. Well, I'm going to say that Joe, I can't make up what he ate. Well, he's in a bus.

He's on a road trip. I would have hung up, too. That's our show, everybody. Thank you so much for listening. Make sure you subscribe. That was a great show. Great guests. Great topics.

I hope you enjoyed it. subscribe so we can make sure that you always, you don't miss an episode. And make sure that you give us lots of stars and lots of likes and all of that good love. Keep it going. You guys are the best. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. We'll see you next time.