Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 52 - Inon & Natalie Shampanier

Episode Date: May 4, 2021

I'm in a movie called Paper Spiders out now!  I sit down with the filmmakers Inon and Natalie Shampanier, who are smart and talented and bring me humus! I call Joey Diaz for a Quick Bite and advice on a great lasagna!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus It's time for Breaking Red with Papa Hey! Don't you know Hey, it's how we're going. Hey, it's time for Breaking Bread with Papa. Hey, don't you know? Hey, it's also a show. Hey!

Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. I am Tom Papa. Thank you so much for being with us. We have an amazing show for you today. Thank you for subscribing. Thank you for liking. Thank you for being a part of our weekly Gab Fest, Eat Fest, Drink Fest. you guys are the best.

We've a really good one today. We've got Natalie and Anon Champagneer, who are, I say his last name quickly, their last name quickly, they're married, because Champonier. Yeah, I think that's pretty good. They are a talented writing, filmmaking duo. They are married, yes, they have children, yes,

but they are creatively pretty amazing. And they made this great film called Paper Spiders, which stars Lily Taylor. And I got to play a part in it because I am talented, too. They were just, I think they knew my comedy and asked me to come along. And it was just such a treat. I went up to Syracuse and I filmed this movie with these good people. And it's really good. It's paper spiders.

It's available now. on demand everywhere. It's in theaters for a short while starting on May 7th, which is the end of this week. And you can go out and see it in the theaters. I recommend that highly. We should all go back into the theaters. And you should just order it on Amazon or any YouTube, any demand place where you get your films. It's really good. It really, it's not just because I am in it. Lily Taylor is an amazing. I'm just one of our greatest actors. And it's about mental health and how a family and a individual deals with it and finds their way when the world starts to twist and reality is no longer what it was before. And they do such a good job because

that could be a type of movie that would be tough to take and it's not. It is, there's humor in it. It's shot really cool. The performances are great. It really, I was, just so, so happy and so lucky to be a part of it. And they live here in L.A. And we're going to come by and we're going to spend some time talking about how do you make a movie? How do you have an idea and actually turn it into a great film? Because these are not aggressive, tough, Harvey Weinstein, kind of angry, yelly, screaming, Hollywood people. These are good,

funny, kind people. And I've quickly made them my friends. And after today when we break bread, I think we're going to be lifelong friends. We've been, actually, we were going to all go out and celebrate the film when we got home and then COVID hit.

So the whole thing got delayed. But isn't it amazing that things got put on pause? And here we are. The film coming out. And it seems like that year almost didn't happen. So we're going to invite our good friends to the table and talk about paper spiders. And hopefully they'll drop a compliment or two about my acting, hopefully. I can't watch myself all that much, but my wife said I'm really good in it. Then we'll grab a quick bite with Joey Diaz. I just feel like talking to him. I miss him. he's great guy and I figure I'm not even planning I'm not telling him we're calling we're just

going to call we're just going to call because I figured Joey will pick the phone up he's not a guy that will just text and not he is old school if the phone rings I'm picking it up and I'm talking to you and I miss him and I want to know what he's eating in New Jersey I know we've checked in with them before but that's what the quick bites are all about catching up with all of our good friends from Breaking Bread. So a quick bite with Joey Diaz. But first, we'll have a good sit down here at the table with Anon and Natalie Champanier.

I wanted to, because the movie, I mean, this was a big thing, that not only did you make the movie, write the movie, see it all the way through, and that it's actually going to be in theaters after all of this insanity. I figured champagne was in order. This was in the car.

Oh, brace yourself. Yeah, so. this might be, it might be bad. And how do you pronounce your last name? Champagne. Champagne, which sounds a little champagne. Yeah, it is actually. One theory for the name is that my answer says were winemakers.

Either it was Jews from Champagne County in France who moved to Poland or Polish Jews who made wine in Poland. But then so it was probably at some point champagne and then they changed from French to Polish to Yiddish to Hebrew to English. So by now it doesn't sound like anything. pronoun all the letters. Oh, wow. Ah, beautiful.

Congratulations. This is a big thing. Thank you. Thank you very much. This is a big deal. Now, did you think that you were going to, how long were you working on this film from the time that you decided I'm going to, it was a pretty personal script.

But from the time that you think, as all artists do or filmmakers of like, we're going to make a movie. Yeah. And the whole time there's something else in your head that's saying it probably won't happen. Yes. That's actually really liberating though. Like the probably won't happen factor is like what like allows like the free writing. And then and also I mean it was unfortunately based on on reality as sad as it is. But your mom. My mom. Yeah. She was an amazing, sweet, loving woman. She passed away a few years ago. Right. Sorry. Sorry. But but yeah, she suffered from the

illusional disorder that got progressively worse. And to the point that you just couldn't help her like Right. They're not aware of the disorder when it's happening and whatever you say or how you try to help them. You can't. And I feel like as writers, we just end up processing whatever we care about into scripts. But when we wrote it, first of all, we thought we're never going to tell anyone that it's based on truth. And we thought that actually people wouldn't stay straight. Especially when we were going through it.

Because when things happen like that, at least me, like I'm very, you're very secretive. Yes, we're going through it. We're very secretive. Sure. Yeah. And so we didn't even tell anybody when it was, you know, happening. But then, and then when we were writing it, like what you said, like, we just... This one's not going to get to me.

Yeah, this is going to be a real movie. We wrote, you know, exciting sci-fi thrillers. Yeah. They're not getting made. The low-budget, you know, indie drama. Yeah. This is not going to get me. Yeah.

But it did. And actually, this one moved really, really quickly. I think we wrote it at the end of 2018. And two years ago, May 2019 were in production, which is extremely fast. That's really fast. That's really fast. That's really fast. That's really given the fact that we've written like five, six, seven years ago.

Jeez. And most of them. you know, never end up materializing, of course. So I wonder if your mom guided it somehow. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. There's a lot of feelings there, though.

Yeah, I know I can imagine. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for bringing me along. Yeah, thanks for adding the comedy into, you know, that kind of story. Yeah. That's movie magic to be able to put in your movie,

whoever you'd like to see in a role. And they say yes. Right. We saw you. I think the first time we saw you was, at the Caesars in Vegas, we went to see Jerry Seinfeld in Vegas, I think 10 years ago. Right, yeah, about that. And you opened for Jerry.

Right. And we're like, this guy is hilarious. And you instantly became our favorite comedian. We started watching everything that you did, recommending you to everyone. And then as we're writing this, it's like, I wonder if Tompapa will do it. And then you said yes. And it's like, and then, you know, I remember, you know, you're showing up in Syracuse. And it's like, you know, this is movie magic.

It's happening. You know, you envision something and the person's there. Oh, it's so great. And you added so much comedy to it. It really, I mean, I still have so much fun watching your scenes. And the movie, even though it's, I mean, it has some very sad and heartbreaking moments in it. But we also try to balance it with comedy. Yeah.

And we felt like otherwise it would just be too sad. Yeah. And also it's physically difficult for me to like not. Like we have very different writing styles. Like, you know, it's very good with thrillers and story overall. And then and. Which is a comedy writer. Yeah.

So it's like, I'll write a scene and I'll put that. in front of everything. And that doesn't even make sense. Like, okay. Did you, did you, how did you, uh, how did you, were you writers that when you met? Who was telling the story? This is like a whole, because it's two very different versions. How much time do we have?

Oh, really too. I have to say, though, well, let me just say, because off camera before we, uh, we, off mic before we started and, uh, you were telling me this crazy story and you're kind of apologetic for like, oh, I don't want to tell you this crazy story right off the bat and that you guys have different origin stories. I'm literally experiencing what people do when they sit down with my wife and I. This is the same thing. We always have something insane that went on, and then they'd ask us how we met, and the stories are completely...

But when they start fighting, that's the most fun. Yeah. That's not how we met. Right. So I went to film school at USC, and she was at film school at Cistan. I was starting production. You were studying writing. Right.

And there was someone who tried to introduce us at a time. Just say who. Like, it's more fun. Well, I mean, it was a rabbi, which is funny, because, both of us are very not religious. But when you're a Jewish student on campus, and, you know, they always, you walk around with your non-Jewish friend and they stop by, are you Jewish? Are you Jewish? Are you Jewish? Do you want to come over? And like, I'm in the middle of a conversation. I don't know. But there was this right way. It was actually a really nice guy. And we would, you know,

we would sit and have conversations and you would try to convince me about his, you know, religious beliefs. And I would try to convince him that I have better arguments, you know, against that. Yeah, against that. And I feel like maybe I shook his belief a little bit. But he kept telling me that he knows the perfect girl for me. And I'm like, I don't know the perfect girl for me. And I've known you for five minutes. You know the perfect girl for me? And same thing.

At Sison, cut to Sison campus. Same thing. I have the perfect guy for you. And the shady thing was, I was in a relationship. And he's like, but how good are you in this relationship? Because I know, I'm like, rabbi. The rabbi has someone better. Not very rabbi like of you.

But he was so convinced that like, that I would just, and it was also nerve wracking. Like, I know, just come to the dinner and you'll find him. Like, really? Oh, really? that's what he's yeah he's like come a Friday night I was supposed to be there like Friday night and I didn't show up and he did oh yeah so cut to my perspective of the story is like come over come over for about a year he's like he should come over on Friday night just come over one night I'm like fine I'm coming over I have nothing better to do I show up and he's like I'm sure

you'll find her I won't even tell you who she is I'm sure you'll find her I show up the only guys there and not just you know regular guys like orthodox guys with like long beards and everything I'm like I'm pretty sure I was promised that there's going to be a girl that he's like well she didn't show up this time but if you start coming more often maybe one time you want. I'm like, oh, this was a, this was a racket. So like, yeah, I'm, I'm not showing up anymore. So, so that's the end of his story. That's the end of his story. And then we ended up meeting online. Like, how does everyone, anyone meet in the state of age? Right. And then, I wish it was more of you think. But no, but then three months into the relationship,

we start, we have a conversation about religion. And, and she says, I do this rabbi, would always make this argument. And I'm like, they always make this argument. I knew a rabbi said, the exact same thing. And they were like, maybe it's the same rabbi. And she said, oh, and they always try to set you up with people. They always tell me, oh, I knew the perfect outfit. And I'm like, and they would tell me I know the perfect girlfriend. Anyway, and then turn out the same rabbi.

And we called him. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, so wait. So how did you guys actually online? Online. Online. Yeah.

On a dating site. Yeah. Back in the day when people tried to make a profile. Now it's just like swiping. So the rabbi is trying to set you up. It doesn't, you don't show. It doesn't happen. And then online, you hook up.

Yeah. A year and a half of a story. It was this rabbi. It was the rabbi. We thought that he would be surprised when we called him, but he was like, of course, God. You know, I'm not surprised at all. Oh, man, oh, man. I mean, that is such a rabbi thing.

You come, you will find it. Of course. And then it happens. Oh, my God. In Yiddish, there's a term for it, like meant to be. It's called Besert. So like you're supposed to find your, you know, for shirt, the person was meant to be. And it's kind of like a joke in movies.

No one actually is. But I feel like, for it. us. We found a shirt. Yeah. That's amazing. So, great story. That's great. So you were studying screenwriting. Screenwriting. And then marriage and family therapy because, you know, something more stable. Right. For when the dream dies. Exactly. And then we met after that and then, and then we started writing together. Oh, okay. That is always an interesting thing. The writing together as a couple. Whenever I see couples that work together, write together,

I always feel like there's judgment on my own relationship. It's always like, well, because I don't think we could write together. Yeah? Yeah. We love each other. It's all great. It all works. But I think the right, it's such a personal, quiet thing to crack that open.

I think if you get used to not writing, if you first get used to not writing together, it's hard to break that mold. Right, right. And she's also very critical. Okay. I think she would, like with my stand-up, she would always be like, no, I don't think so. Yeah.

And I listened to her for a long time. And then I was like, wait, maybe she's wrong. So then I would bring it on stage and the audience would laugh. I was like, I'm not telling her anything. I'm not going to listen to you anymore. Thanks, I'll talk. But sometimes that like negative, not that there's negativity. That negativity.

Sometimes that can make it be better. Sometimes. Yeah. Like sometimes you think what you're writing is amazing. And then you get a slap in the sense. And someone needs to tell you, no, it's not. Yeah. Yeah.

She's great. I'll be able, I'm able to show her things. Like when I'm done making it. Yeah. She's a really good consultant to read over it and be like, you're missing something here. Like, those kind of notes are good, but it's in the creation of it. Yeah. I guess I'm just overly protective of the idea in a way.

Yeah. That I don't want to share it too early. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And also, I would guess, I mean, I have. no experience with writing stand-up comedy, but I think that there's something more because you're also performing it, then you kind of know in your head what will work for you to perform. Whereas I feel like with screenwriting, it's just a little different, especially since most of the

work for us, I would say, is brainstorming, maybe 80% of the writing process is just brainstorming. We just bounce ideas off of each other. And then if one of us thinks it's great and the other one isn't, usually it's probably not that great. So we filter each other's ideas and that I think is really good. They challenge each other. But there's no selling it after we write it. There's no like, I feel like you can sell it.

Even if it's not funny, you're so funny that you can probably sell it just how you say it. Exactly. You just read it and... I can't sell it. Yeah. No, I can't sell it. I can mug it up and make some paces and... Yeah.

But I also see that there's something true about writing being a very personal thing. And it's very often it's very hard. I think it depends on the screenplay. But sometimes we have to divide it, okay, these are my scenes, these are your scenes. Or even some scripts are like, okay, this is kind of... of like, you know, one of us needs to be in the driver's seat just because, first of all, at the end of the day, you need someone to kind of be the, in the driver's seat. Yeah.

And secondly, you know, one likes blue. It's like, can you paint together? One likes blue, one likes red. I think blue would be really great here, I think. It starts with the origin. Like, whoever's more excited, whoever came up with the idea and it's more from the heart, then that person usually takes the lead for that script, right? Right.

Right. Right. Yeah. And then. Better say yes. Natalie, stay on Mike. Oh, sorry. Yeah, it's okay.

And then with thrillers, usually I would take the lead. With comedy, she would usually take the lead. And I feel like there's actually something very liberating about being in the passenger seat. Right. When you're like, well, you know, it's your call. I think that's, I think that would be good, but this one's your call. Right. Or vice versa.

So, yeah, but it's fun. Yeah. Just to interrupt the film talk, if you can explain to people who aren't watching us on camera what you've brought. And I also have to say you're only the second guess to actually show up with food. Everybody comes looking for food and drink, but only one other person brought food before, so thank you very much. You know, I was going to bring matza, but Passover ended. Yeah. And most Jews hate matza because they're forced to eat it. Right. And it takes like cardboard. I like it's matzabri. Yeah, matzabri. Our kids love it. Yeah. They still want us to make it all the time.

that's really great. And I'll be honest, and I'll be honest, too. And I'll be honest, too, that my bread schedule got screwed up. I was going to bring you red. And it got screwed up, so I didn't have homemade bread for you. Yeah, it happens all week long. And it got screwed up because we had to see people. But I know I'll see you again.

So I'll bring you bread next. Okay. It would have been too much bread anyway. Yes. So whoever could not detect my Israeli accent on the podcast, I'm Israeli. So I brought. Lafah bread, which is part of Israeli cuisine. And since you just can't bring lafah bread, you need to dip it in something. We also brought hummus, or hummus, as Americans call it, and falafelah balls. So we'll have a little feast after the show. Beautiful. And we were going to go to a place that has a taboon, which is kind of like this Arabic oven that they bake those authentic lafas on. But the oven was broken today. So we brought one that was not as authentic, but hopefully equally. Why is this not as authentic? Can you tell? It's just the one that they do on the Taboon, which is this traditional oven, they just look a little different.

It's like a charbroil? It looks a little bit more roasted. Like it actually touched the hot metal, which this one, I'm not sure. Right. Probably now. It's probably from a microwave. Don't touch it right now. Yeah, but it's still a good place.

Yeah. Well, thank you. This is really nice. Of course. This is really great. It is some of my favorite food. all of the cuisine from that whole area of the world. It's just, oh, my God, it's so good.

And it's also different. Like, depending on where you go from the Middle East, it's slightly different, which actually makes it good. Like, some people add cinnamon to things. Right, right, right. And also with Israel being such a melting pot of so many different cultures, you have a lot of European Jews who brought European food, and you have a lot of Middle Eastern Jews or Middle Eastern food

that is just the food of the region, that is all kind of like got mixed, and people are, and also Israeli chefs are very innovative, so it's actually, it's a very vibrant cuisine. Yeah, so good. And it's very, I mean, it's very, um, where I grew up, it was a lot of Jewish families,

and all my girlfriends were Jewish, and when I would go to their families, it was, it reminded me of Italians. They were so close. It was all the same. The mothers were the same in their way. Right, yeah. I mean, it was really, I felt,

so comfortable being there. It's just like extra love. Yeah. It's like the ingredients. They put the love into the food and they want you to eat. Right. Exactly. But I will say, and back to your rabbi story that I've always admired the rabbis. The rabbi is always, like, I've been to some weddings where there was a priest and a rabbi like doing the dual thing. And the priest never stands a chance. There's the storytelling, the wit, all of that was just like, oh, these poor priests. But the choir is better in church. There's no choir. Yeah.

So paper spiders is about essentially, I mean, it's pretty close, right? Yeah. Extremely. Yeah. Yeah, extremely. The delusional disorder stuff is very, very close to how it actually manifests in somebody. I mean, it's not, you know, based on a true story. Right.

We took some liberties there. And also the main character is a high. school girl. And when Natalie was going through it with her mom, Natalie was already a mother and also a mental health professional herself. She's also a marriage and family therapist. And she had me and she has her family and she has support. She was already a mother of two at the time. So I think that there was just more of a support system, of course, which is so important. Yeah. And we felt like if someone was going through it who was not a mental health professional, which most people are not, and it was not, who didn't have the tools to deal with it, let alone a girl who suddenly has to,

parents to parents. Yeah. It would even more heartbreaking. And there's no other parent there. Yeah. And she's just alone with the mom. Yeah. And your family's everything, especially at that age.

Right. Your parents, I mean. Yeah. Yeah, because that's what you captured so, so elegantly, was her love for her mom and you kind of making excuses and you want it to be okay. You're always looking for a sliver of hope in those situations. And she really played it really well. Like she had that kind of longing.

that she, that kind of suspicion that she had to step up and almost be the parent. It was, uh, that was really, really well done. And it was not. It was the whole, it was, I don't know. I mean, the, the filmmaking was great because it wasn't this, oh, like, we just came through the Oscar season and a lot of those movies, like, ripped your heart out and just, they left you kind of hopeless. And this film is like dealing with a heavy thing, but it didn't leave you with that

feeling. Yes. Yes. Yes. That was important for us that it doesn't end, that it ends with some sort of hope and not just, not just, you know, because because it is possible to get help and to, it is possible, even though it's very difficult. Yeah. And usually, like, delusional, people with delusional disorder aren't aware that they have a problem. So the hardest thing is getting them to realize that it's a problem and getting help.

But it is possible. So that we want to. I had a screen. Go ahead. Does it happen that way? Like, is it, I mean, all cases are different, but it was kind of like that slow. deterioration where things seem like, oh, that could be true, but it's so gradual that you don't really notice it happening.

It is. And what you were saying about, like, you just, you want it to be, like, even as an adult, you want it. I mean, my mom had similar things with, you know, a neighbor. And part of me, you know, the logical side was like, you know, that can't be. Like the neighbor's not on the roof. And I guess it's not very similar. It's actually exactly.

Yeah. But a part of you sometimes is like, well, maybe. Yeah. What if you? And that's part of the thing with delusional. So it's not like, you know, so crazy that you're just like, that can never happen. It's actually believable, which is so tricky. And almost in every other regard, they seem perfectly normal.

They can carry on a conversation about anything else, and you would never imagine that only when he comes to this narrow subject, that person has very strong delusions. And what we started realizing, that was part of the thing. So we weren't going to tell anybody about it, that it was, you know, inspired by a true story. And then people were coming up to us asking us. I know somebody, my cousin, my aunt. This is very similar to somebody, you know. And I'm just, I was like shocked.

I still am on a daily basis. Like, shock to realize how common it is. Yeah. Paranoia as well as other forms of mental illness that people were saying, you know, I was supporting my parent, I was supporting my sibling, you know, my friend. And just that narrative of someone trying to help, trying to save someone that they love who has problems that are just beyond their control. Right.

There was something that we felt a narrative that was compelling that people identified with. And then you felt like what we should step out in front of this and talk about it because it's kind of the message. I mean, it's like if I would have seen this movie when it was, if I was, you know, going through this and saw it, like I, I wonder that a lot. Like maybe that I would have done things differently or maybe that would have helped me in Oh, yeah, to not feel alone. And it's kind of, I was thinking about that too.

Actually, when I read the script originally, it's at a time where finally mental health is like not something to be embarrassed about. It's right up front. People talk about it. It's not something that you hide any longer. And actually talking about it is helping people realize, like you said, they're not alone. Totally. Yeah.

I mean, the timing was pretty great. I really do feel like we're in this moment of like inner discovery and what that means to be mentally healthy. And this did not exist when I was growing up. Yeah. And it's 10 years. And also all of us, I feel like throughout the whole world, have gone through, with the last year, have gone through like some mental health crisis of, you know, everyone was a little bit paranoid and, you know, you can't step outside and you need a mask, and what is true and what isn't

and is the media telling us the truth, or are they not? And suddenly the whole world has become a little paranoid. Yeah. So I think that people can relate to what it's like to go through something like that. Yeah. And now it's, you know, May's Mental Health Awareness Month. So that's also part of why you released the movie in May. Or if you just get high and you're not used to it, then you're just stepping the shoes

for just a second and you realize if somebody goes through which is why I stopped getting high. I was like right and now it's like it's everywhere and it seems like so much fun

but it is fun until it isn't I always compare it to alcohol because alcohol is just for me at least like fun fun fun yeah there's no like slap in the face oh but like we eat it's fun fun fun and then oh my God

like it's suddenly not fun get that thought out of my head I know it really just got to a point where every time I would do it I was just wishing it was over I was like, why am I doing this in the first place? And it's so long. You can't just snap your fingers.

But aren't you a little suspicious when you see all the dispensaries and all the stuff? And you're like, wow, it seems like maybe they have it more figured out. Maybe I can get the right kind where I can go back to it. And then the kids call and have to be picked up from school. I can't do it. Oh, yeah, not we. Yeah, when you have kids, it's very, very hard. Just need to be responsible for someone.

Yeah. But that's also why. wanted to put that scene in the movie when the when stephania's character melani does it and and gets paranoid and suddenly gets to feel what it's like to be in her mother's shoes for a night and we felt like that sense of growing in empathy is a lot of what we want the people to think about with the movie that what it's like for someone to go through something like that because at the end of the day they they don't choose mental illness anymore than a person chooses cancer diabetes as we say how was uh how was when you were talking about when you write something

and then you get to like see it and see the actors kind of pulling it off and especially with your mom and being so close to the thing and then seeing Lily Taylor come in and take that role. She's such a great. I mean she's such a brilliant actress.

That was amazing. Yeah. Like you saw it more than me. Like I was only on set. Yeah. Because she's a complex person just, I mean, I never met her before we worked together on your film

and just a delight. But she's one of those people like you don't really never know what she's thinking. Yeah. wheels are always turning. She's obviously very smart and gifted. Yeah. And she's one of those really great actresses who could dial it up to a hundred.

And there are many actresses who are wonderful, but they don't quite have that intensity. Right. And what amazed me most, and Lily, everyone, but Lily, it was such a pleasure to work with, you know, behind the scenes. The entire cast, it was really a dream come true making this movie. Part of what amazed me was how quickly Lily was able to turn it on and off. she would do a scene and it was so convincing. I mean, like when we did the police scene, you know, I turn around, I see people, you know, crew people crying behind me on set.

And then I come talk to her about the scene and it seemed like, oh, she's out of it. Like we're now talking again about the scene. And then the scene starts and she just turns it on. God. Like with all the takes, she had to like go back to that place. Yeah, to go back to that. Incredible.

But I think though what I didn't appreciate is just how long afterwards it can take an actor to really shake off the character. when they go into it so deeply. Yeah. And I think that for her, it took some time. It did. Because she really, all the actors in the movie, but she really put our heart and soul into the role.

And she went all the way. Right. Yeah. Oh, man. The closest I came to that was when I did behind the candelabra and I had to grow out sideburns and I wouldn't shave them for a while after the movie. That's as intense as I got.

I couldn't imagine. I mean, when you see people like, they're just at another level. Like that that kind of immersion that the really great actors have is, I mean, it's a lot. I was seeing just Daniel Day Lewis's birthday today. And so there's just these Instagram shots of him. Every shot is intense. Yeah.

Like every shot, these are still shots. But there's so much going on inside that guy. I don't know. I don't know if it's worth it. Well, that's why, I mean, I'm assuming. I mean, it's not like I've talked to him. But, you know, he quit. acting and at the time I didn't get it. I mean you're at the top of your game. Everyone

you know thinks that you're one of the best actors in film history. Why would you quit? But I think that if you go all the way and you really put your heart into it and you go through such a journey, it ends up taking something from you. Sure. And maybe the down from after the high, maybe the low is just too hard. Maybe. Yeah. Like I never got that when I was little. Like they just like they grow beard and they move to like Washington and you're like, what are you thinking? Like what actor is at the top of the year. But now, I mean, I kind of get it. Yeah, or Brando, right?

Like, Marlon Brando's story. It's like, wait a minute. He was like a god. And then he ends up like this kind of a drift, you know, five times the size later on in life. And you're like, how does that happen? Well, it takes a toll on something. Takes a toll. And you're so, like, those people are, they're so emotionally available.

It's like you can't just turn it up and steal up and say, and make a joke. Yeah, yeah. Thank God for comedy. And it's really interesting. I often think about that, how different the approaches for actors and comedians. And fortunately for us, we got to work with both in the movie. And it's interesting how actors approach a role from the point of view of, is that truthful for the character? Is that what the character would do, would say?

Whereas I think, and correct me from wrong, as a comedian, you're a little bit more focused on the end result. Will that get a laugh? Right. Does that line, does it land? Will it deliver? Which is why part of the fun of having comedians in your movie is that beyond, I mean, beyond the jokes and the comedy and all that stuff, it's kind of, it's very result-oriented, in the best sense of the word, it's very, you know that like a funny line needs to be funny and it's to land. And it matters less is it true for the character, would the character really say that? Why is the character saying that you cut through that and you're just like, it's funny, it works.

I know, exactly. But there is, that's the, that's kind of the limiting part of it is that you're, you're, you're. always playing for the same emotion. You're always playing for a laugh. You're always trying to get that same result. And then to shift and like do different things is actually freeing. And it's, you know, when I started out, I started out acting in school before I became a comic. I was wanted to be a comic, but I spent like six years acting. And I remember, I took it so seriously, like all of that stuff and emotionally attached to different things and different scenes and studying and I looked at it as much more of a craft.

And then my craft went into comedy. And acting was just like this fun thing you did on the side. And I was like, wait a minute. What happened to treating this like it was the art, you know? Was that a dream to be like a drama actor maybe or like a serious actor? Yeah, I just, I didn't know. I wanted to be a, the dream was to be a comedian. Okay.

But I knew I could act. Like I knew that that part was available to me. And then when comedy took off, I kind of forgot about all those books of just theory and acting classes and all of that stuff. I just kind of let it go. Yeah. And I was like, well, they're just calling me to be funny. But I feel like that journey, isn't that journey so much more fun than the series, like the journey part of it?

Like, is it, I mean, it's a comedian. Yeah, as a comedian. It seems like that would be so much more fun than. Oh, it's definitely more fun, but you're not going to win any Oscars. Like, whenever I think of dramas, like even on TV, like CSI or like, someone, they must be so serious all the time, like driving home from them. You must be like, oh, yeah.

But there's no Oscar there either. Yeah, that's true. But also, you're so good in the movie. First of all, by the way, you know, we did, because of COVID, we didn't really get to see the movie in theaters yet. We will, May 7th when he comes out. But we did get to do a test screening. And the moment you show up on screen, people start laughing.

Oh, really? But it's also there's something so, you're so good in the movie. And it's so nice to see the scenes with you in, Lily, because you really get to, I feel like as a viewer, you get to look into two people's minds. Right. And clearly they have different narratives and different ideas of what's going on. And very soon we're all going to realize, you know, what's going on.

But you really watch the scenes from the two points of view, and you're invested in both of them. Right. Which very often you don't have, even with great actors, sometimes you watch them. I don't know if it's an empathy thing or you're not quite in the journey with them. Right. Sometimes I feel like you watch a scene and you're really in there with both characters. You know what they're going through.

and you feel for both of them. And I feel like that last scene of you and Lily in your apartment, in the Howard's apartment, which probably the funniest scene in the movie, but also one of the most heartbreaking because I feel like as the audience member, you know what's going on,

you know what he's thinking, you know what she's thinking, and you know that very soon it's going to explode. And it was really like such a pleasure to watch, and of course to make. Yeah. Thank you for being in our movie. Oh, please, come on.

I'll follow you guys forever. Are you working on something else? Are you... We always do. Constantly, yeah. But every script is different. I feel like we made our indie dramas and then we wrote some comedies

and some thrillers. The last thing that we finished was a very kind of like stylized thriller. Now we're writing a more comedic thriller with every project. Every project just takes us in a very different direction.

Right. We wrote a drama about from a sort of corruption that is based on true stories. So just every project we just immerse ourselves in a different kind of a world. And it's fun.

And do you pretty much just get an idea and do it, or do you have to be hired to do it? Because this story feels like, no, we're going to make this. Yeah. And you did. Yeah. Without permission, right?

That was kind of more of a miracle. Yeah. Because we've been in this business for a long time. Actually, it's funny because I remember when we took a trip to, like, Boston, do you remember? I think it was Boston. And we were in a bookstore. And this guy came up to,

and we were looking at, like, the film section. And he's like, He was like in his 50s and he's like, come on. Like, just give it up now. I'm going to save you a lot of years. And I'll never forget that. Because at the time we're like, you know, that sucks. Why is he saying that?

But now I, maybe I'd be that person. It's like a very... We had teachers at USC who would try to dissuade us from going into film, which was mind-boggling. Finally, you get into U.S. Film School and you have teachers coming to you and saying, listen, don't do it. And you don't get it when you're young because it just seems like, oh, yeah, I have an idea for a movie. Someone will give me money and I'll go make that movie. And it's so hard to get them made.

So many stars need to be aligned. And without the financing, you can get the cast. And without the cast, you can't get the financing. And it's just, and most projects just end up never materializing. And it's just heartbreaking. You spend years and years on things that almost happen. Right. And then they don't.

Yeah. Yeah. That's most of the stories of almost happening. Just almost. But you know, it's interesting. Because I had a theater actor that came to me at the request of my friend's mother. and she sent this actor to talk to me. And the whole conversation was, don't do it.

Just don't. I hadn't graduated college yet. She was like, just don't do it. Stop. Don't. It's a horrible life. And really, I was like, I was all excited. I was like, what's this pep talk going to be?

And it was just don't. But, of course, the same thing with your thing is, if people are saying that and you still override it, that means you want it so badly. It's really, you're not, it's not up for debate. Like you beat out the, but the same thing happens with, in marriage and family therapy, like, I mean, most of the people in my class, I would say didn't, because you have to do 3,000 hours of therapy to get, in order to graduate even, not even, yeah, you know, so most of the people just drop out.

Really? And then they don't tell you that, you know, when you're, when you're signing up for the, oh, I'm in my master's, I'm going to be in marriage and family therapy, oh, three thousand hours and things. So I feel like it didn't, if you really want something, it'll happen. Yeah, no. And there's no, yeah, there's no debating it. There's like, whenever I talk to people and they're like, maybe and then I might, like, I know. I know somebody that was like, yeah, she was like, you know, like I'm thinking, you know, maybe I want to be a surgeon.

What? Maybe start with doctor now. If I can't be the best, then I don't want to be it. Right. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I would like to be a therapist, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Is it, is it, is it, is it, uh, my. emotional though? I like giving advice.

I think your emotions in the door please. I think I know what I'm talking about, but I don't want to get swept up into their... That's actually a good thing. I mean, it, in a way, you can't get, you can't get affected by every case you hear because you'd be a wreck. Right.

So I was in the beginning. And then you get a little desensitized, but in a good way, you know, you give the best advice, I think, when you're like a little bit away from it. Right. So, I mean, I think that you can't, I think if you want to be a therapist, you can, well, this feels like a podcast for therapist,

then you feel that desire, then you should go for it, but it's hard to, like, be born with empathy. Right. Just if you're, you know, it's hard to find a good therapist too. Like most people switch therapists on average, like five times before they find the one.

I've never been to therapy, but I think I could be a good therapist. Well, a lot of what you're doing with podcasts. I mean, getting people to open up, getting people to talk. I mean, there's a lot of it. I mean, at the end of the day, a lot of it is the art of conversation

and how do you connect with people emotionally? That's true. It's coming from a person. No, but people just want somebody to listen to that. Exactly. So that's kind of the criteria. Yeah. Whenever my wife mentions like going for therapy, I always feel, well, I'm not listening

to her enough. Do you want more? Thank you. I feel like they would be great in a therapist's office. Champagne. Champagne. So now come in. I'm sure somebody had proposed that like in the 40s, like alcohol treatment.

Right. Right. Weren't all the therapists anyway, probably like drug addicts? Yeah. Absinent. and a lot of weirdness weirdness going on. So what age did you know that you want to be a comedian?

I was in seventh grade. Oh, that's... Yeah, so like 12, 13. That was when I realized it was a job. I didn't know that you could do it as a career. Like, I was funny. I was always funny. Like, there's things of me, like at 5,

getting up in front of class and trying to make people laugh of bananas and stuff. But it wasn't until seventh grade when I realized, oh, this is a job. Like, there's grownups doing this for a living. And then I just started digesting all of that. And that's when it clicked, like, okay, that's what I'm, that's what I'm going to go do. Did you ever have, like, second thoughts?

Like, if you get, you know, if you have a bad, a few bad, you know, shows or a few bad experiences? No. No, because, like, from the first time I tried it, which was after school and went into New York and did it. I was, that first time on stage, like, went okay, but a couple jokes really worked. And, you know, you're literally in front of six people and four of them, you know, and you have to go up and do it.

But it was so addictive. It just was a confirmation of everything I had been thinking that I was like, okay, yeah, this is what I'm doing. Back to the, there's no discussion of whether or not you're going to get out and go do something else. That was it. So it didn't matter. bombing, having French fries thrown at you.

Wow. Yeah. That really didn't matter. You just knew that that was all going to be part of it somehow. Well, French fries really thrown? Yeah, one time I got hit with a French fry. Oh, my God. In New Jersey at a comedy club.

Of course. Yeah. And some guy threw a French fry, and it literally hit me in my chest and had ketchup on it. So it stuck. Insult to injury. So it stuck, and I, like, looked down, and it was slowly just going. down my chest, leaving a little ketchup trail. That's like a commercial for if you still want to do comedy after that.

Right, like it's a tied commercial. What do your parents say when you told them, I'm going to be a comedian? I think they kind of knew it. But they convinced me that I should go to school. Because we didn't have anyone in entertainment anywhere in our family. And it was all New Jersey and everybody just had straight jobs. And there wasn't one person that went into the arts. even. So it was just, I'll get a degree just to be, and it was smart, you know, it wasn't the

greatest, like, the highest college or anything, but it was, but it taught you out of work and it gave you enough tools. So when you ran out into the world, like, some of my comedian friends that had no, they couldn't make phone calls. They couldn't, they didn't know how to organize, like their calendar, you know what I mean? Like basic, the funniest people in the world, and they were a mess. They couldn't take care of their, their business at all. That's kind of comforting to know school does. I mean, I'm still in the place.

So, like, I could have done something with those, you know, extra six years. Yeah. But I guess maybe in hindsight. But that was maybe that was good material. I mean, for you, MFD was really good material. Yeah. So many scripts end up having some component of psychology and things. Yeah.

Things paid off in a certain way. Yeah. Even working with clients, weren't you thinking, like, sometimes people would tell you stories and like, this is really good. Yeah, but I'm not to say that. Of course, yeah. Right. Not on air.

Oh, yeah. I think I'm writing notes and I'm writing. Yeah. Like you make a really successful screen play. And like it was inspired by this person that does. Wow. There's like unlimited stories. Oh my God.

But now I feel like everything. Like once you're like a writer like probably with stand up too. Like so many real life things that happen are like that's material. It's hard to have a conversation now and that not be material. Yeah. It's amazing. It really is endless. Yeah.

And to the point where you think how can anyone have writers block? Yeah. Like because there's just so much out there nonstop. Yeah. Really? Do you constantly type ideas on your phone or your notepad when you're... Yeah. Yeah. I'll put them in my phone now.

I used to, now that we're going back to the clubs, maybe I'll have it again, but I always had a piece of paper and folded piece of paper in my back pocket with a pen. It's always the paper with stand-up comedians. Like, not the phone. It's always like the pencil and the paper. I know and more, like younger comics are using the phone. Yeah. But it's the worst, especially when they take it out on... Oh, yeah, on stage, yeah. I'm just not used to it.

Yeah, I like writing it out. I think when I, I'll forget things when I put them in the phone. If I do write it out, it's in my mind. Oh, interesting. I'm more connected. The motion of, yeah. Yeah. But you do, you forget things all the time.

So I just got really, really conscientious about writing everything down that I possibly could. And, you know, 90% of it is nothing. Like, how do you, like an hour of memorization. of material. That's like very impressive. What's weird is that you, once it's done and you record it and you move on and you start working on other stuff, how some stuff you'll recall and some stuff I won't recall at all.

And people will yell out at shows like, do the bit about the kid with the skateboard. I'm like, what? I usually have to ask my wife. Did I have a joke about a kid with a skateboard? Yeah, don't you remember? No, I don't because you just dump it. material. Yeah, you can't carry all of it.

Yeah. But how do you do it? How do you remember an hour and a half of material? It just slowly evolves. And, you know, it's not like, it's not like the script drops and you have to memorize it. You know, it's probably over a couple of years of you writing it, working on it. And then you get those things down and they just stick around. But you also have to be really good at improv, right?

Because if you forget, like, sometimes when we pitch, because we're not going with memorization. And I'm like, you are, but I can't even remember people's names. But when we pitch, like, I leave off at the period. Okay, the last word was exit. So start with like the. But, like, I feel like you have to kind of be more experience with improvisation to forget a line. Yeah. It's also confidence.

Yeah. You're not, you're not so scared that you're going to forget. Yeah. And if you do forget, who cares? Because you're confident enough to go in different directions. You make them think it was on purpose. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, there's all those, right. You know, it's just. it's second nature at a certain point, but it takes a long time. It's like truly have that confidence. I think the first half of your career is pretending you have the confidence. And then it becomes real.

But I think as you get older, you just don't care. Like, actually, you don't have to pretend, right? Like, you just care about, look at my dad, he doesn't care about anything. Right. No filter. I know.

Whoever we are. I know. It's really embarrassing to go out with. But it's also envious. Like, as a result, I'm apologizing on everybody's behalf. Well, don't you feel that way with your career is like the things that would destroy you, like the nose or the roadblocks

that would destroy you, you now know, oh, this is one of those. Yeah. This is one of those times when. Yes, that's true, actually. Right? Yeah. I think, and it's what you said about confidence. And I think the other ingredient is ignorance when you're young.

Because you kind of need to fake it at the beginning if you're, I mean, that you have the confidence. Oh, of course I'm going to do it. And of course, I know it. And of course, otherwise, you know. you know it will follow. But then also on some level, you need the ignorance to actually believe that you do because when you're young, if you know how much you don't know, you may not do things, you may not have the confidence to do things. And then you keep doing it until you,

and you learn from your mistakes until you get better. And then you actually know how and then you develop real confidence. Yeah. Yeah. Was this the first time you directed a film that you've written? That was the second one that I directed that we wrote. The first one was a thriller called The Millionaire Tour. Oh, what was that? I saw that in your IMDB, but I'd never seen it. He was It was a thriller that we did that 70% of it takes place in the car. It's a carjacking movie. Based on a true store. I mean, you know, like it can happen.

Inspired by it. By a true kind of a con called the Millionaire Tour where people step into a cab. Actually, I think they used to be more popular at a time before cell phones and before. Yeah. People step into a cab at the airport. But it's not a real cab. And they're taken for a ride from an ATM to ATM where they end up losing all of their money. And they have to withdraw their money from the ATM,

and then eventually usually they end up dead at the end of the ride. I know. But how do they get them to go to each ATM? A gun. A gun. The good old special. You get in. You're like, I'm going to the hotel.

And they get a gun at a gun. Yes. And then they take you. And I guess you can only withdraw like $400 from, I don't know if it's changed, but back then from ATM. And also it's more common in other countries, not in the U.S. And it used to be more common in the past. But then...

And you can't just run when they... You can try. And then they catch you. then you have a chase sequence in a movie. But if you may get shocked. Oh, you mean act too. Exactly. So then,

but then it seems like, yeah. It's like you're like, like I always wonder like, oh, I'd have the confidence of someone the hell they got. I mean,

just like screw you and lock the door or run out. But then like, would you like maybe die? Yeah, when you have a real gun in your face, it's a little different. But then in our story,

someone, maybe. Yeah, maybe. And then in our story seems like a guy was targeted and there's a reason why they chose this specific guy at the airport.

And the guy says, I'm not that guy. And because it's supposed to be a legendary con man, and they don't believe it were already saying. It's so convincing. And the more convincing is you've got the wrong guy, the more they're saying, oh, this guy's such a great con man. So the whole movie, there's a mystery. Is he the guy?

Yeah, that's great. But who knows? Oh, man, I got to watch it. So that was the first time you directed? Yeah. That was the first one? We thought it would be easy because it was all in a contained car. And we're like, oh, how hard this can this be?

It's just in a car. And yeah. On a process trailer, you move so slowly when you shoot on a process trailer. And, you know, and just getting into the process trailer and putting all the cameras and mounting everything. And then suddenly the, you know, the light changes suddenly. We actually, we had rain suddenly. We were also shooting. There was also a main movie.

We did not expect rain and we're shooting in L.A. But suddenly it's raining. Oh, gee. Now, you shot, now on a process trailer very often you shoot, especially when you have a conversation inside a car, you shoot like one angle. and then, or let's say two cameras, you shoot two angles, then you shoot the two reverse angles, but suddenly we had rain,

you know, and you can't cut between a conversation, you know, one shot has rain, the other shot is sunny. So all those things, it just ended up being slow, and it was a 14-day production, so it was very quick. Jeez.

So do you remember the first day you walk on set and you know that this is on your shoulders? Was that nerve-wracking, like to make that step, or had it been incremental, so it wasn't such a big thing? No, no, a little bit. I mean, yeah, I did a big short before I started, before I made this one.

So, and I directed some other things. So I had the confidence, but it's, I definitely, I mean, I learned so much. Again, some of it's some of the confidence is ignorance because you don't know what you don't know. Right. I definitely learned a lot. That's the best point in life, right? Really, yes, yeah. You learn a lot by doing, but it's also, it's the things that you can control and the ability to adapt that I feel that are so crucial.

Right. I mean, we had the same thing in Syracuse with paper spiders. I mean, yeah. rain suddenly, I mean, we're planning for in circus, the weather is very shifty. Yeah. And some days are like our big exterior scenes. We have the graduation scene that's meant to be outside. And this is the one day that is supposed to not rain.

And it says like, and, you know, 6 a.m. By 6 a.m. it should be sunny. Yeah. And, you know, and it should stop raining. And it stopped raining at 3 p.m. And it completely changed our schedule. And some scenes we moved into an interior location. And, you know, in some scenes we ended up just, you know, shooting later and, you know,

and fighting the, you know, you know. you know, the sun going down. But, yeah, this is the pleasures of filmmaking. Yeah. But I was very impressed when I was on set. And you weren't there. You were. Yeah, I was there twice.

Because we have kids. Not when I was there. Right. Yeah. You missed a job. Yeah. They want a light. Yeah.

So I had to be, I had to plan it like very carefully. So I could be like five days at a time twice. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. And you missed each other. Yeah.

Yeah. I think I came on the day. I left on the day that you came. Right. Right. Yeah. It was a cool vibe, though, on the set. And that's like, you know, that's a credit to you, both of you.

There was just like, there wasn't a, you know, you've been in situations where it's crazy and people are yelling. Yeah, there's no drama. No, it was really. Yeah. And also, I've created. Yeah. Thank you. And also to the producers who were wonderful, Anne Clements and Ash Christian, who sadly passed away last year.

Oh, no. It was at the age of 35. It was a wonderful guy. and that came out of nowhere that was very, very sad. But they were both wonderful people, and so sweet, and he really resonates, and it really triples from the top. It, like, starts from the top, yeah. Also, all of our actors and all of our, and our crew, everyone was just so lovely.

It was really, it was such a wonderful experience. And people often say that if that's not the case, because they feel like they need to. But it really was the case, yeah. No, but Ivan was. It really was, it was wonderful. Every beginning to end, there was no drama. There was rain on occasion. There was, you know, the first day of production, you know, the grip truck, you know,

doesn't, you know, the gate doesn't open and you can't get have your equipment, that kind of stuff. But no drama, it was, everyone was just wonderful. It was really a blessed production. So great. Yeah. Whenever I think about making films and it's like, oh, you have these ideas and you know people and stuff, it always comes down to, how do they get the money? Like, do you just run around town taking meetings and like begging rich people to give you money? Well, I think the problem starts in L.A.

We had producers that were from L.A. But it's also, I would say most of our projects die because they, I mean, obviously because they can get financing. Right. But very often you only get part of the financing. And then, you know, getting the rest of it is also not easy. And then the financing is contingent on getting certain cast. And then that cast is not available. Or then they drop out and just so many stories.

So many things that have to line up. It is kind of a miracle. It really feels like a miracle when it happens. On a small level, on a big level. Yeah. There's no. And I almost feel like there's no recipe at least, at least for us. Amazing. It's so great. So comedy, where did the comedy bug come for you? If you were writing all the comedy, the funny stuff. I think it's funny. Like I think also in middle school, like when you can make people laugh, that's like very, it's like crack. I want to do more and more. And she's naturally very funny. And then, thank you. And then, and then in high school, I did sketch comedy. Like I think back. I'm like, why was I like on stage in a bathing suit like 17 with like a puppet?

For a left. Anything you could do to get a laugh. And then I, and it's funny because, or sad, like, I kind of grew up. Right. And, and then I had kids and that sucked everything. It's hard to keep the silly up. It's hard to keep that, that, that, the, why aren't I getting in a bathing suit and just doing the thing?

Really? That is like, you have to, you have to, you have to remind yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're carrying the weight of a life. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. And then marriage and family therapy and, and, and that's very. and that's not funny at all. No. But I think all of that happened and like I kind of found like only I feel like in the last five years I would say like found like my niche of like comedy like can be injected into any kind of script.

Like even I know that thriller sell and like some people will push you know you to write thriller thriller that sells go do that. But okay like that's going to have some comedy in it. So you kind of find like the balance. Yeah. Yeah. No. And it also makes a lot of things more palatable.

I feel like with paper spiders too going into it, we knew that we wanted it to be funny, at least to a certain point. We felt like, okay, as long as we have neurosis, you know, if it's, Woody Allenish kind of neurosis, that's funny, but once the neurosis turns into psychosis, that's not funny anymore.

And I would say maybe that was the biggest challenge for us to find that balance between comedy and drama and making sure that we keep the humor just at the right place. And I think the answer is always like, I mean, it's hard to do, but like if you can find the reality in all of that,

If you can find, like, what's, I think in part of the reason that I, like, the hated film school, like, I wanted to quit. And because, like, it's so, like, find out what the actor has for lunch and what they had yesterday and what they would choose in a restaurant every day. And that just sucks any kind of, like, passionate. But, like, if you can build it from a place of, like, oh, I know this person, then this person would, you know. And a place of truth. And also, comedy, I feel like a lot of the comedy and a story also, there's, like, character comedy

has a lot of truth. And I feel like also why the reason that people really connect to your comedy and to, a lot of great comedies because they know it resonates because it's true. Right. People read, they recognize their own lives when they listen to the stories. Yeah. And it can go off into the wild, but it really has to start with one foot on the ground. Yeah.

Like it has to have, you can't just be completely out there. If it starts truthful. And there's a lot of, I mean, in really good films that way, it's like they're not playing for laughs. Yeah. But stuff is funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those moments are so great. Those are the best, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. When we listen to your bits about kids, I mean, it's so like from plain pasta to all of them. It's just that to how, you know, you plan the day for them. You know, by 7 a.m. you run out of things to do with them. It's all like when you're a parent, all this stuff is true. Yeah. To how, like, parents used to have respect. Oh, my gosh.

That's so true. Yeah. That's scary. That's half comedy and half true. Like, that's the thing about the father. Like, we all, I mean, we. It's crazy how like what changed, right? I know.

What happened? How did they become in charge? How did we give up all of that power? We waited our whole lives to have. And then we just gave it up to another generation. It was so stupid. Yeah. It was so funny.

I had a, I had an audition yesterday where I had to cry in the audition. It was, it was an emotional scene. I was playing a father. And it was, he had like a card that he found from his daughter who, I don't want to go too much into it

but he was an adult daughter and he was tearing up because he was reading this thing from the childhood and because my daughter went to college last year all I had to do was right before the scene think about her as a little kid and it just came out I was like oh this is going to be so good for my acting

and she broke my heart and left three times in a row stopped down do it again and just like right back into it. It was like, it's so on the surface. Wow. It was like, yeah. It has to come from a place. I used to, like, think about my dead dog. Like, I used to, I saw my dog get hit by a car. Oh. Traumatized me for years, but also helped when I wanted to, like, get out of things with my family. And, like, I would just pretend to cry. Oh, really? Yeah. But, I mean, it's true that, like, I guess if you think, because I always have respect for actors that can just cry on cue. I know. That seems so hard. So hard. And I,

I would kind of fudge it, but I've never been asked to do it in years. other than like theater in school. And this was really like the first time. And it was like, oh, I have something I can go to now so easy. This is so great. After all of the like, because I was railing against the whole idea that you have these little kids and your whole life changes for them. And then they leave.

And they just go. And it's like, wait, we, I didn't want to live in this town. I didn't want to, this dog. I didn't want it. This was all for you. And now you're going to go. But now I'm like, oh, all right. If she gets me some cool acting roles, then maybe it was worth it.

Does she know? that you cried for her? No, I didn't tell her. She does know. If she listens to this, she'll know. Yeah. My wife likes when I cry. Really? Yeah, which is kind of weird. So when I cried when she did go to college, she was, my wife like, she like delighted in it. She never sees me like that. She was like, you're feeling something. Yeah. You're feeling something, right, exactly. And then like, for the next two weeks, she's like, oh, she's gone and look at me. I'm like, it's not happening. Oh my gosh. Maybe for an addition.

Maybe. I'm saving it. When I see people cry, it's really hard. Like, I can't not cry. Like, it's weird. Like, even if a movie is not good or not, you know, sad, the minute they're crying, you know, it's like, are you crying? Yeah.

It's like, hard. And that's like terrible as a therapist, too. Keep it together. Right. Right. You can't be sobbing. Isn't there something called transference where the emotions of the patients? Yeah.

Like, oh, that. Yeah. Like when they, yeah, I mean, I guess it could be a good thing, too, because oh, they're so much a headache and they feel for you. But also it's like, yeah. The hardest one for me is watching my daughters or other little kids, but closer. My daughter's trying to be brave and not cry, like when a pet dies or something. And watching little kids try their best.

Yeah. Yeah, that's so sad. Oh, yeah. When he tries not to cry, when he gets his feelings hurt and he tries not to cry, it's heartbreaking. Oh, God. It's brutal. Yeah. Then you go back on your air, like, you're mad at them in the first place.

That's why they're crying. You're trying not to. Okay, I'm sorry. It's fine. Spill the water on the floor. It's okay. Yeah, it's all right. All right.

So tell the people how they can see paper spiders. Well, on May 7th, the movie opens in select theaters and on demand. So on demand, it will be available everywhere on Amazon, iTunes, everywhere where you can download movies legally. It will be available. And then you also play in theaters around the country in L.A. where we are. It will play the Lemley, North Hollywood, and Pasadena. Nice.

And around the country in different theaters, people could just go on Google. Oh, that's great. And type paper spiders. And May 7th, he will be available in many places. Super cool. Super cool. Well, listen, we were saying when we get home after shooting, we were going to go out to dinner, bring my wife along, and we were all going to go out and celebrate. And then the world shut down.

Yeah. And we're getting closer. This is their first step is that we can eat this food now. And then, but soon, now that everything's opened up, we'll get my wife involved and we'll have to go out soon. Sounds like a plan. All right. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much, Tom.

I told you they were good people. That was even better than I thought. I mean, so creative, such good people, we could have talked for two hours easily. We'll have them back. And maybe they'll even put me in another film. Or maybe I'll put them in my film. They've inspired me. But the second guest to bring food, I think anybody else.

there that is considering coming on the podcast. It's kind of the theme of the show. I brought champagne. They brought some bread. They brought some humus. That's how it works. And for all you people out there that complain when I chew on the microphone, I didn't eat a damn thing until they left until it was over. So that was for you. I know everybody gets crazy if you chew. God forbid, you hear a chewing sound on a podcast about eating food. But I get it. It drives you crazy, so I held off, and then I ate everything. All right, now let's grab a quick bite.

Let's get on the phone and try our good friend, Joey Diaz. The clouds are out. The birds are chirping. I can't wait. I can't wait. I got a softball practice of my daughter at five. Perfect. You're living the life.

I'm living the life, man. Trying to live normally is fucking crazy. Trying to be normal and not normal is fucking crazy. It really is. And when you're surrounded with normal people, you know, we're always around comics. And then we get to put around normal people for fucking nine months. And it's really a weird experience, but I'm digging it.

Oh, that's great. Yeah, I know. It's like in the beginning, you're like playing a role. you're like oh I'm playing the role of a normal dad right now and then you can grow into it you're like oh maybe I maybe I can do this a full time you don't know what it's like when you're watching fucking it's Jesse whatever that show is on Disney at 830 you're watching that and you're rolling into

bunk and you're like what the fuck am I doing with my life but she's over there giggling like a fucking Momo and you're like you know what my kids are having a good time What am I going to do? I watch a giggle. And that's what I've been doing lately. It's just being a fan. Oh, that's awesome.

Just give a band a breather. I'll go back on stage. Yeah, perfect. Totally perfect. All right, now this is why I'm calling you. I'm making lasagna. I was like, you know, there's so many different ways to go. You can actually, like, make the meatballs and place them up and put them in.

You can mix it with the sausage. You could do the meat sauce separately. you could do that. There's so many different variations of lasagna and I was like, let me just call Joey and see what makes him happy about lasagna and what makes him angry about lasagna.

Like when it's done right and when it's done wrong. All right, let's start this off properly. When I came from Cuba and I tasted lasagna. Right. Okay, from all angles, I mean from the frozen food aisle to when the Puerto Rican

woman cooked it on the fucking third floor on my building. Okay? So I loved it. And then I moved to Jersey. Mm-hmm. And I got to see how Italians use different variations of it.

Right. I love a cheesy lasagna. I like meat with the sweet and spicy sausage. Mm-hmm. Cut really down and mixed in with the meat. Right. I like the gault in it,

the mozzarella on top. Yes. Yeah, I was thinking, because there's this, the way I'm going at it, take the meatballs and the sausage and actually take them out of the sauce, let them cool a bit, then chop them all up, and then use that as one of your fillings, that and the cheese as you're layering it up. And I was like, this seems like this could be good. Do you like when you get a big chunk of the meat in the lasagna, or do you want it small, a little bit? I like a nice piece, but I like it cheesier. Right. There's a place on Coldwater and Moore Park that had a nice lasagna, believe it or not. Not the best. Not five star, but it wasn't bad for California.

Right. And if I craved lasagna, I would run up there and get a slice. Oh, nice. and it had it also had a little veal in it which really added to that

you know that's what made it a little different the veal I'm not a big fan of veal like last week I went up

the Rudy's and my brother ordered the soul the chicken Florentine with mozadel

peppers and eggplant on top of it oh boy and it looked fucking just beautiful wow I couldn't even

touch the fucking And he gave me a piece to take home. And I thought I was taking off the eggplant, but it took off the whole piece of mozzarella with the fucking eggplant. So I ended up eating the sole fucking naked. It was so delicious. I know. The lasagna needs the sweet and a little spicy sausage for it to really stand out.

Right. Heavy muts and they caught to fucking make it perfectly. All right. Awesome. eat. I like that shit. I'll eat a piece fresh from the oven. But even if it's heaven, I know it could be better. And then I freeze it. And the next day or two, I take it out and I eat it again. Yeah. I like lasagna as a main dish. I like it as a left-over. Right. I'll eat the main dish because I'm coming to your house. Right. But I'd rather you call me the next day and have me over for lunch. Peace out. Or better yet, you freeze it and call it. And call me. me back in three weeks and invite me over. All right, it's the deal. I'll do it.

With a piece of your bread, the round bread? Yes, now you're talking. It's fucking tremendous. With nice tea with lemon in it? Come on. Who's better than you? Were your feet up? Stop it.

Oh, I knew I could count on you. I love how you become my Italian cooking Yoda. It's like when you're literally in my head. After about an hour, you blow the first lasagna fart. And you could smell that record in the air and you're like, all right, love you, Joey. Love you, Tompapa. Have a great week, buddy.

Touch you soon. Thank you to Joey Diaz. Thank you to Anon and Natalie. Great podcast. Thank you guys so much for listening. This is really turning out exactly as I wanted it too. We've got comedians. We've got funny people.

We've got artists. We've got people that love food and celebrate and bring things along. And we had a great bottle of champagne. This was a good one. I hope you enjoy. listening to it. Subscribe. Tell your friends. Tell your friends. That was, I got caught in a champagne bubble at the end. Tell your friends to subscribe as well and make sure you leave reviews. It really does mean a lot. It really helps. If you give us lots of stars and say nice things,

it helps to spread the word. But you guys all know that. You're the best. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next time.