Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 56 - Phil Rosenthal

Episode Date: June 1, 2021

The great Phil Rosenthal (co-creator of Everybody Loves Raymond and host of Somebody Feed Phil) who loves all things comedy, food, and family comes to the table and inspires a Quick Bite with my meatball-loving cousin Michelle.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, it's our goal. Hey, it's time for Breaking Bread with Papa. Hey, don't you know? Hey, it's also a show. Hey! Hey, everybody, welcome to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. I am Tom Papa. Thank you for joining us at the table once again.

I am here on the set of Breaking Bread, but we will be going remote today because we are talking with the great, the legendary Phil Rosenthal. Not only is he's an amazing comedy mind, creator of, one of co-creator of Everybody Loves Raymond. He also is a food nut, a food nut. Somebody Feed Phil is on Netflix. You can download all of those. He also had one on PBS as well. And he's a very funny way of describing his show. He's like, Anthony Bourdain, if he was afraid of everything. which is true and not true. It's very funny. He definitely is not the smoke a cigarette and hang out against some weird pontoon boat comfortably. He's going to complain and call out. But he is more adventurous than he lets on and he explores all this great stuff. And it really makes you feel when you watch his

show that you can go to all these bizarre places. I don't know about you, but whenever I see really exotic place, really kind of like off the beaten path kind of place, I get nervous as well. I think, well, I'm probably going to get some disease or I'm going to eat something and it's not going to agree with me or I'll end up in some weird jail for some reason because I looked at somebody weird. I get nervous. I have a lot of fears in that regard. And it's, that's the cool thing of watching Phil because he seems like the guy is similar, similar person with those kind of fears. And then he does it and he makes you think, oh, I could do that. I could do that if I got my passport back, which by the way, I had to get my passport done and had to send it in the mail

to get it renewed. And now it's just out there in the postal service floating around. I tried to find a way around it. I was like, well, what are big celebrities? do and apparently they spend a lot of money to have it done. So I just did it the regular way and now it's just out there. So I may not be leaving the country ever again. I might not even get to Canada. So we have Phil Rosenthal. He's going to be great. I just love him. He's been on my radio show before and I just love talking to him. He's just a treat and we got to go out for a lunch probably, I don't know, five years ago. That was the first time I really hung out with him.

Such a sweet guy and just, he comes from family. He comes from family. His show was all family. His love of food. And he's got a family that's just a little older than my family. So I'm always kind of like watching him like where are we headed. And it's that big heartiness that is just so attractive and throwing some funny and some food. and that's a perfect fit for this show.

And for the quick bite today, because it is family-centered with our buddy Phil, I'm going to do a quick bite with my cousin, Michelle, who is a big fan of the show and has been hounding me to be a guest on the show. And she lives in North Carolina. She is one of the closest people to me in the world. I love her to death. All of those stories I tell about growing up in New Jersey and Italian roots and eating, excuse me, and celebrating with our family, she was there, side by side.

We're the same age. We've been on the same path until she split and went to North Carolina. Is she ready to be a main guest on the show? Probably not. I mean, we could talk a lot, but will anyone, will anybody care? hair. We're going to find out because I'm going to give her the quick bite phone call. We're going to call her and we're going to talk about all things growing up Papa and it should be great. I do love her to death and she's going, it's time to put her on the podcast. Another family member that wants to be

on the podcast is my daughter and my youngest and she really wants to be. And I brought up the quick bite idea to her and she refused. Apparently, her agent says lead guests or nothing. So I'm not sure what's going to happen with that. All right, well, let's start off. We've got a great conversation with the great Phil Rosenthal. And then we'll have a quick bite with my cousin Michelle. What are you doing in New York?

Fun. Fun and see my dad who's 95. Oh, I know. I saw that on Instagram. That was amazing. So now that I can fly, that we can all fly, I'm going to see them every month. Right? Because God knows what can happen as Life has shown us.

Yeah, no, 100%. I was just in New York last week myself. It was very hopeful. Yeah. The village especially was so alive. Now I'm in Midtown, and that's more dead, actually. Like a bomb has hit and we now must rebuild. Yeah. The survivors, right? That's kind of what it feels like. Yeah, that's what I felt too. It felt like the Midtown was all the business people and the tourists and then go to the village and just young people are just going off. What COVID?

I know. Yeah, that's amazing. I know you should, yeah, every month. Why not? Exactly. I, like, just came back and my friends are like, do you want to come? We're going to have like a dinner on next Saturday. I was like, why would I say no to that?

Yes, why not? Yeah, exactly. So great. I haven't seen you in quite some time. Last I saw you, you were in studio with us. leave before all the troubles. And let me just say, I'm so sorry to see that your mom had passed in 2019. Yes, yes. Not from COVID, from ALS, which is also bad. There's no shortage of bad out there, you know. Yeah, exactly. But she was so sweet. She was so funny. And she really was

a special, special lady. She was. And my dad is also a special. lady. And he's 95 and he is doing it. He still kicks in. He told me a joke the other day that I couldn't. He told it so well and I couldn't believe that I never, can I tell you this joke? Please.

Mrs. Goldenberg goes to the butcher and she says, you have a chicken? He says, I have a very nice chicken. She says, we'll see. He says, here it is. She says, open the beak. She opens the beak.

She sticks her nose in there and gives a, smell, big smell, now spread their wings. And the butcher spreads the wings of the chicken, and she smells under each wing. She says, now spread the legs further, further, spreads them, sticks her face in there, sniffs like this. She goes, I don't think so. And he says, Mrs. Goldenberg, could you pass that test?

That's a great joke. So I live with him for a long time, you know, over 60 years, and I've never heard that joke from him. And at 95, he comes out with it just like I just told you better than I just told him. That's amazing. Amazing. Was he always funny? Yes. He actually did a little tommling in the Catskills, you know, for fun, maybe at camp or something.

And he would, he worked in the Garmin Center in New York. and he would often be called upon if there was a company meeting maybe he'd get up and do a little bit right oh wow and he's just a funny character he's a funny person but never had you know either the desire or the stomach for show business right right then you're just funny around the house annoying your wife and you're that funny combination because you were very funny but then you started out your career like knocking around and doing stuff in New York and wanting to entertain and wanting to do it

but then you kind of have it and then you go behind the scenes of course with Raymond which what you're doing but probably in your mind were like I could totally be in this as well and then you pop out and no that people say to me why didn't you put yourself in Raymond

I said because I cared about that trip no it was going along so well I thought don't screw this up with your stupid ego wanting to, because yes, I did think growing up that I would be a character actor. Right. I thought, you know, watching the honeymooners, I'd naturally just be because I can imitate those guys.

Yeah. That's what I would do. And I was very encouraged in school. Right. And so to the point where I majored in that in college. And you know what happens when you graduate with a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree and move into New York City, nobody can't. Yeah, exactly.

Not such a big deal anymore. So you know, you find the other way. So my other way was writing. Right. Which I never knew that I could do. Well, you didn't write while you were finding your way in New York early? Really. We, some of us wrote a show for ourselves to be in out of necessity.

And that click. That was called Tony and Tina's wet that show. Right. Right. I always forget that. Yeah, it's forgettable. No, it wasn't forgettable. I was, I mean, coming from New Jersey, that was like the...

Did you go see it? Yes, of course. Of course. I see me. I was the priest in the original production. Can you believe that? That's hilarious that we could have been in the same room like that. It's very possible.

I danced with Joan Rivers at one of the show. Oh, did you really? Amazing. Man. So how old were you when you wrote that? 27, 28. A bunch of us from Hofstra wrote it together and some other. friends from New York.

Right. And then it was just this strange thing about with, with success coming too early. And there was all this infighting and backbiting. And I was, I was fired with some other people from the show. Oh. The very show that we helped create and we were totally screwed out of, so I'd like to take the rest of your podcast to complain about this. Right.

Well, welcome the show business. That's a good first introduction. Listen, at the time, that was the worst. that ever happened to me. And of course, like all lessons in life, they can sometimes become the best thing that ever happened to. Right. Why was it the best?

Because it kicked me in the ass. I moved to L.A. And I didn't know what to do. And I started writing with a partner and got hired on sitcoms right away. Right. Wow. Yeah.

What was the first gig? I'm so glad you asked me because you don't like this answer. A sitcom for Robert Mitchum. A sitcom? as in comedy? In front of a live studio audience, Robert Mitcham. Jeez. Yeah, he's hilarious. It was called A Family for Joe.

The other hilarious person in that show was a young girl named Juliette Lewis. Also not known for comedy. Yes, this was the show. It lasted seven episodes. Why did, why was Robert Mitchum tapped? Did he want to do comedy? Yes, it's a very good question. This is why you have a podcast.

But you know what I'm going to question? This was, they did, remember TV movies? Sure. Like for the networks? In the 80s and the 90s, they kind of stopped doing them. Maybe because of this. Yeah. Robert Mitchum, they do a, it's called a family for Joe.

Robert Mitchum is a homeless man. He lives in a refrigerator box in Central Park. Some recently orphaned children come upon the refrigerator box and find this man. They say, well, you pretend to be our grandpa. so that we're not split up into separate foster homes because our parents were just killed. Right. He says, what's in it for me?

They say, a roof over your head, and we get money and we get food, and he goes, I'm in. So this movie became the highest testing anything in NBC history up to this time. Wow. Tested higher than Cheers than the Cosby Show of the 80s, the highest testing anything. And in 1989, they could not not make it. an ongoing thing.

Wow. Okay. So now it's a set. It looks like the Brady Bunch set. This is the first moment of the first episode. This is when I knew maybe it wasn't going to run. Yeah. First moment. Ding down, you hear it. I'll get it. Robert Mitchum.

He's on stage. Robert Mitchum enters. He's wearing a floral apron. He stops at the kitchen table to rearrange the vase of on his way to the door. Dead, the end. The balls have been cut off right there. This is not even Uncle Charlie in my three sons.

This is someone who has been told by the network to be more likable. The end of everything. Your grandmother would have known. This is a turkey goodbye. Oh, my God. Of course. Did you know when you were writing it? Yes, I knew it when I heard the words Robert Mitchum Sit down.

Right, of course. And then it got worse from there. But what you can learn from your first show, you can learn from any show. Just about how it works or doesn't work. And that's just as important, it turns out. Right, right, yeah. So, yeah. Jeez, always.

But then I went from there to Baby Talk. You were on Baby Talk. You know about that? Yeah, I remember. The star of Baby Talk was, Baby Talk was the TV version of Look Who's Talking, the movie with the Talking Babies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The star baby talk was in the John Travolta role, not John Travolta. Stamos?

A young actor named George Clooney. Ah, no way. Way. Wow. He quit after six episodes, I think. That was part of the George Clooney. Didn't he have like 20 pilots before he actually made it? He had like something.

The executive producer of that show said, let him do a pilot every year for the rest of his life. That'll be his career. Right. And now whenever I see George Clooney, we hug and we say we survived, baby Tom. So when you, this is a very interesting thing, though, because it is, you know, I go back and forth with writing and stuff, but also your performer. That thing you said in passing in the beginning of like keeping your dumb ego in check, that's not a small. feet. No, you're right, especially if it was like a childhood dream, right? Yeah. You got to, you got to either really accept that. Listen, it makes the medicine go down a little easier if your

thing that you wrote becomes successful. Sure. Then you don't worry so much about, well, but I'm not acting. Right. I can stop for a minute and think that. Right. I was like, hang out of this train as long as you can and make the most of it and have fun. Yeah. I looked every second of that experience and not once did I think oh I wish I was never never, never. That's great.

After that, after that. Yeah. When I was, then they wanted me to do other sitcoms, I found that the business had changed drastically in the nine years that we were doing Raymond. What do I mean?

I'm going to, I'm not blaming Friends. Uh-huh. But Friends was such a phenomenon that the networks all wanted shows like friends, meaning young, hip, sexy, cool comedies. Right. I don't know how to do that because I know it looks like I do

because I'm young, if I'm sexy, but I don't. Right. I can only do what my sensibility is. Yeah. They didn't want it. Right. And the shows they were giving me to run, I didn't want. Mm-hmm.

Because I knew I'd, you know, not a judgment on them. Just I knew I would be bad at doing it. Right, right. It's not your thing. It was so frustrating for years after Raymond. You think, oh, you got this thing. They'll let you do whatever you want. No, they won't.

It's so crazy. That is really crazy. I'm going to, I wrote a book. I made a documentary. I did other things. And I was happy. And then I thought I got frustrated. There was a last straw with a pilot that I did where they bought.

the premise of a thing I wanted and then wanted to change it completely the day after they bought. So I couldn't stand it. Yeah. So I had to suffer through the making of this thing knowing it would never be on because I wasn't going to capitulate to what they wanted and they weren't going to do

what they didn't want. Right. So I thought, what do I really love? I love this travel genre. I love this. I'd like to take a crack at this because I think I could put a twist on. In fact, I think you know the way I sold this show was I said one line, I'm exactly like Anthony Bourdain if he was afraid of

everything. Right. And that got me. You right away understood where I was coming from, how it would be like Bordane, but not. Right. Maybe a food and travel show with a sense of humor. Right. Right.

Exactly. Did you have, did you have a love of food growing up? Or did this, was this an adult pursuit? Yes, but it was unrequited growing up at my parents' house. You didn't get good food. We didn't have money. We didn't have money. They both worked and neither of them were chefs in any capacity.

They just did not. It was not of value. Did you grow up with great food? I did. I did. I had a blessing of Italian grandmothers. Oh, man. That is a blessing.

I know what that's like. Because it was the same thing. It was no money. Yeah. Big family. A lot to feed. But what they could do was just insanely good. You know, that's the history.

of great cuisine around the world. Yeah. People who out of necessity are making food, not just to sustain themselves, but it's also their joy and entertainment even. And sometimes it's so good, it becomes the family business. Right. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%.

And, you know, you can see, like, my grandmother just lived in that kitchen. She just lived in there. And she didn't know who was coming by. She didn't know. She didn't make a plan for a dinner. Just more people came. She made a little more. Just every day.

You noon, wherever you were, you could stop by there and eat. Listen, they found that anyone can make great ingredients taste very good, right? They don't need anything. Yeah. The genius is taking cheap crap and making it taste better than those great ingredients. I know. And every culture has it. that. So if you didn't have it in the home, where did you start to discover it? Was it when

you went to New York or was it Friends houses? Well, sometimes you're lucky enough to go to Friends House whose mom can cook and you go home and you slap your mom up. You know, you begged to go to, well, for us, we begged to just go to McDonald's. That we begged. Because it was on TV every day. You know, if you grew up in the 70s, they bombarded you with commercials. You Every cereal you saw, every cookie you saw every crack food that they sold every TV dinner, every McDonald's, Burger King, whatever it was, Kentucky Fried Chicken, you live for this crap. It's amazing we're alive. I know, it really is.

Carvel, you at Carvel? Oh, my God, did we have Carvel? The cookie puss? Cookie puss, and then at, on St. Patrick's Day, cookie old puss. And then if you turn him sideways, the mold, you make Fudgy the Whip. Fungy the well, right exactly. It was one of the greatest. The greatest.

I loved it so much. But then, you know, the first time you go to a nice restaurant or just even a half-decent restaurant where they have food, I never had garlic until I went to college. Amazing. I never had that flavor. Right. Ever. McAllis doesn't cook with garlic. So just blew your little head off.

It blew my little head off. People thought I was out of my mind. I've been living like an animal. It's like in The Wizard of Oz, the door opens, and now the world's in color. And then you start going. So you obviously had a love affair with it before you did the show because you were involved with restaurants out in L.A. And you got pretty sophisticated in not really that long of a time. I can't even say sophisticated.

It's just the more you experience, the more you know I get. more you learn. Yeah. That's all. So I'm just a, I'm proudly a tourist. Right. I'm not an expert. I'm not Bordane.

I'm not Andrew Zimmer, who's the chef. These are great chefs, too. Yeah. I'm the guy the chef feeds. Right. That is a very appealing part of the show, of both of the shows. Was it you, you make me when I'm watching it feel like, oh, I could go to Bangkok. and because I know I'm going to feel awkward.

I'm not like, I'm not the guy with the cool cameras and the smoking a cigarette and those guys. Of course they can survive there, but how am I going to survive? And you go in and you're just regular guy. A tourist. Tourist, making mistakes, being friendly, enjoying yourself. And it works and it makes you think, oh, maybe I could go. That's the point. That's so glad you said that because that's all I'm trying to do.

The world would be better if we all could experience a tiny bit of other people's experiences, right? Yeah. You know, without getting political and what's happening in Israel now, when I went, all I saw were people getting along. Mm-hmm. That's all I saw. Right. I saw Jews and Palestinians working together, sharing businesses together.

Yeah. This place in Akko, the mosque next to the synagogue, not only did they tolerate each other, they celebrate each other's holidays. There's no police in that city. Wow. Because there was no need for it until recently. Wow. That's such a shame because most of the time the world is peaceful.

The reason it's news is because it's news. Yeah. I was listening to a report on The Daily about why now? Why? And it was this strange confluence of events. Yes. Holidays all happening at the same time. Young kids doing stuff.

It just all just... COVID, I'm sure, factored in. And you know what else factored in? Politics with Netanyahu, who is the Trump of Israel avoiding his crimes and wanting this diversion. This is what a friend of mine in Israel told me. Oh, really? Now, before people write to me, let me say, I know nothing. Right.

Reporting what I have heard. Right. And I am not speaking out on the issue the way other people are taking aside because of one thing. I don't know anything. I only know what I'm reading and hearing. I have no firsthand knowledge of this situation. So I'm being quiet and listening. Yeah.

But you were there experiencing both cultures at the same time when you were doing your show. All I saw was love, peace, and understanding. And I saw people. But this shirt, people had a shirt on at this bakery in Tel Aviv. It was written in Hebrew, Arabic, and English. Jews and Arabs refused to be enemies. And this is a Jewish-Arab-owned bakery that's been in the family for 150 years. Jeez, that's amazing.

So we're not hearing that story. Yeah. Where's that story? I know. That's not news. That's not news at all. was there did you go to any other places

during your travels that were a little frightening because I know you look you have a thing like you said with for Dane like but I'm afraid of everything

and you kind of have that little you have that Bible a little bit but you're a lot more courageous than than you portray I think I'm not I think I become more the more I'm forced to do

so for instance my brother tells me we're going to get up at 4 a.m. And we're going to go to this pond in the middle of an island, in the middle of the river, in the middle of Saigon. And you're going to pull up lotus roots and snails. And you're going to go in up to your waist in hip waiters. And you're going to do that.

I said, you lost me at 4 a.m. I don't want any part of that. I really don't. Right. And then I was forced to do it. It's in the show, and it's one of the happiest experiences of my life. Not because I enjoyed any of the stuff I just mentioned, but because of the family I met, and I actually did it.

Yeah. And so the more you do, the more courageous you might be next time, because I did it. I don't have to, it may be annoying, it may not be fun, but I'm not afraid anymore. Right. And there's all these perceptions you have growing up of what these places are. I had no idea what the Middle East was other than reports I saw in the news and these horrible images all the time. And then you go there.

It's only until you actually go and sit down and people take you out to dinner and you actually realize what this place really is. You have to go. You have to go. I tell people shut off the TV right now and go. I go to Vietnam. Now what do we know from Vietnam? Right. We know apocalypse now.

We know the Vietnam War. movies and documentaries. Well, people are telling me, just the greatest vacation I ever had was Vietnam. I'm like, wow. So I was reticent. And then I went and got to damn if it wasn't beautiful and the people, the loveliest,

I mean, so sweet and so kind, I just loved, I can't wait to go back. And it is gorgeous. Which, by the way, in retrospect, makes the war seem even more of an obscenity. Oh, God, I know. Imagine being with little, kids, like I'm talking to a little girl who might be the spitting image of the girl you see in that

famous photograph running down the street. Yeah. Yeah. Having been on fire. Horrible. And your heart just, I mean, everyone should connect with people on this level. Yeah. So that that never happens again.

Yeah. Do you ever go to someplace and have the opposite and be like, wow, this place is horrible? These people are horrendous. I've never found that. Even in situations like Moscow where they gave me a hard time. Right. I still loved every minute of it because it was funny to me. Right.

And if you don't take yourself so seriously, you can have fun in almost any situation, unless somebody's physically attacking you. You get to see where they're coming from. You could be like shocked at some of the way you're treated. Right, yeah. Just be open to where they're coming from. Right, right, right. And then you have a sense of humor about it.

So you grow up with no food and your parents not really having the skills or the wherewithal to feed you, which you have the total opposite. And how old are your children? I have a 26-year-old boy and a 23-year-old daughter. Okay. So their experience is going to be, they'll tell a very different story on a podcast. in the future. Yeah, there's like, Dad, it can't be all about food.

Can we just eat like people today? So what is that? Because you're my near future, because I've got 19 and 16. Oh, yeah. And you are, you're thinking of it. Yeah. And you just had teenagers at home for a year. year. Yes, sir. Wow. And you're smiling still. Oh, PTSD. I get it. You must have a mountain of new

material. Yes, yes, I know. I have to try not to talk about it on stage or it'll just devour the entire act. It's also the end of your relationship with you. Yeah. So where are you, so describe your, describe your family dynamic now. Well, because of COVID, right? So, so, so, so, so, so, Lily was at USC and she was finishing up. She was finishing her senior year when COVID hit. And the last two months, she had to move at home and miss her graduation and miss all that fun. Yeah. So we had a graduation for her in the front yard.

I put on a suit and did the address. Oh, nice. That's great. We had friends drive by in the car. Yeah. Yeah. Hunk and yeah. That was sweet.

And she's lived with us the past year. Listen, there are hidden blessings and everything. And for Monica and me, the hidden blessing was we got to spend this extra year with our kids. Yeah, I know. What 20-somethings want to spend every dinner with their folks? No, they were gone. They were on their way. So this kind of, you know, they got held back.

I don't know God knows what happens to their lives and careers now. But for Monica and me, we kind of treasured this time. And maybe they'll look back and feel a little bit of the same thing, maybe. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We survived this.

We survived wartime is what it feels like, right? Totally. Like nothing in our lifetimes. We've been blessed that this is the worst thing that ever happened. Yeah. And it was bad. I'm not diminishing the impact. I mean, it was people, many, many thousands of people died.

People we know died. And you forget how scary it was in the beginning also how truly frighteningly. It is kind of an amazing thing that human beings, you just kind of forge through. Like whenever you look at people from wars and different things in the past, you're like, how did they get through it? You just do. You just do. Like, we didn't know if it was flying through the air, if it was on our food packages, it was in the mail.

That's right. On the mail, you have to hose down the mail. Yeah. You have to hose down yourself. Yeah, got weird. Doctor saying, here's what I do. I come home. I strip in the hallway of my,

in my apartment building before I go in, right? We then close it up. We put it in the dishwasher, we do it, right? Yeah. It was weird. Every single day. Yeah, but you get through it. You kind of muddle through.

You go through. So you're in New York. You're seeing Pops. Yes. First of all, how is, how is, at 95, not having your mom around? Yes. Is he, how did he have? handle that because that seems like such you hear stories like a lot of times people you know don't

get don't survive that well he can now get a word in he's that's why that joke came out for the first time he's been dying to tell that joke for 50 years I had time to tell it my favorite joke of his I haven't spoken your mother in 35 years I don't want to interrupt Oh, that's so great. Oh, wife jokes. Don't you, I mean, I get, sometimes I get a DM from somebody. I wish you wouldn't make wife jokes. I'm like, what else do I have?

I mean, that's a, what do you mean? Did you see everybody loves ring? Half the jokes were wife jokes. You know what the other half were? Husband jokes. That's life. We're just talking about marriage. I don't hate wives or women or anything.

Maybe we're a little too. sensitive people. Oh my God. Yeah. The line that popped into my head, don't do wife jokes. Have you met her? So what did you eat today? Because when I got to New York, I went great because it's the first time in over a year. And I was kind of exercising all during COVID. It was trying to be good. Of course, eating and baking went crazy. But I got to New York and the leash was off. Yeah. I gained more weight during COVID than I do with a food. show traveling right because sitting around at the house the only sunshine coming in is the menu what are we going to have what are we going to order from right yeah that's the only fun that was it

right yeah and so i think i gained eight or nine pounds and now i have to work hard to take it off yeah but in new york i walk a lot you know that's the great thing about new york you walk and walk and yes we're going to eat everything you want and do all that so what i eat today today uh do you know Morgan turns ice cream. So he started making burgers and fries. Oh, really? And they're superb. Really? Really?

He's an artisanal, like, he's obsessive. Right. Every ingredient. He makes the bun. You know? Right. The meat is ground to order. The meat, you know, everything. Perfect smash burgers he's making. Oh, my God. Delicious. And then, of course, it's ice cream.

And then after that, I had to go for more ice cream because some of my friends never tried Cafe Pana. Do you know what that is? No. You can order this. It's not an ad, but you can get it on Goldbelly, like many other things down. This ice cream, this is from Danny Myers' daughter, Hallie. Danny Myers, one of the great restaurateurs in the world, and his daughter, as a teenager, I believe, took an interest in ice cream. He sent her to Italy to learn.

No. And she came back a friggin' genius. Really? It's like an eight-year-old genius walked in to Ben and Jerry's and said, this is good, but there should be a lot more. Oh, geez. Cafe Pana. Cafe Pano.

What did you get? She made these affigados. Every day's another flavor. She'll do a peanut butter brownie thing with chunks of brownies. It's spectacular. Every pint of ice cream is kind of like its own Sunday. Uh-huh. Because there's goopy stuff.

there's crispy stuff or crunchy stuff or bits of cake in it in the pint freshly made with the finest ingredients in the world oh that's amazing yes and now I'm 300 are you going to get a good dinner in

of course I'm going to I'm going to Momo Fuku tonight oh that's good Momo Fuku noodle bar yeah which is right here in Columbus Circle so life is good I got it you know I plan out the meals

pretty much I know. That's exactly what you do. And it really is true. I have my Apple Watch. And just from walking around New York, it was alerting me saying, are you starting a workout now just because I was walking? Because in L.A., you just never walk. You never walk, and you can go, you know, 20 blocks is a mile. And 20 blocks you feel is nothing because it's so entertaining. But you don't even realize you're going 20 blocks, right? It's so amazing. How much long are you going to be there? I'm here until Monday. So another, I guess, what's today? Tuesday? right yeah Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday yeah that's good that's a night that's healthy I love it and I'm gonna do this every month a week like a week out of every month now that's so smart smart I see him dad tomorrow oh that's great and is he in the city no he's actually in New Jersey in a retirement community right with friends that he's known for 70 years for real yeah so people

say why don't you have him move in with you because he'd be bored to death in my He has friends. He's playing bridge. He's doing stuff. He's having dinner parties. That's in the cafeteria. And, by the way, I don't have to tell you, most little people there are ladies. Right.

I mean, that's right. Yeah. A lot of the dudes don't live this long. Remember Alan King's routine, survived by his wife. Right. I'll write all the newspaper articles, all the obituaries. If people are listening, go on YouTube and look up Alan King, survive. by his wife. It's one of the great routines all

so great. He just rips that place apart. So great. Don't do wife jokes. Oh, are you kidding me? Come on. Why don't you say don't breathe? Yeah, exactly. That's someone who's not married.

So are you going to do any more? Are you going to do any more on the Netflix? Do you know yet? I can't say. I can't say. Okay. So by me saying I can't say, you should deduce. Yeah. I'm going to do you. I got it. Secret, secret message received.

Well, you're the best, Phil. When you come back, we should be... You're the best. We always say that we're going to sit down and actually eat together, which... No, but I would really love that. I know. We did... We had one lunch, but I think we should move to dinner. Let's go. And now that, now, no mask, we can kiss. So, it's going to be great. Right on the lips, baby. All right. Enjoy New York, my friend. So great to see you. You too. And I'll see in person.

with food in our faces soon. I can't wait. Okay. All right. Take care, Phil. Bye. Well, there you have it. The great Phil Rosenthal.

I told you he was going to be good. He is good. I just love his outlook on everything. And we're going to sit down in L.A. And as soon as the interview was over, I texted him my favorite sandwich shops in New York. So hopefully he'll get there and maybe bring his 95-year-old dad a sandwich as well. You've got to be careful with that.

I once gave my grandmother a salami at Christmas time, and she just took it out, was so excited, bit right into it without cutting it, chipped a tooth, and I had to come back the following week and take her to a dentist. So be careful, Phil. All right, now let's do a quick bite. Let's get on the phone with my cousin, Michelle. This will be interesting. Hey, Tommy.

Hi. Good. Where are you? Actually, in my car at the Piggly Wiggly in South Carolina. Yeah, you can't make that up. Why? Why are you there? I'm visiting our uncle and taking care of him a little bit.

Okay. So I'm doing some grocery shopping and, yeah, making some food like we do. Beautiful. Yeah. It's so funny. So you are the first family member to be on Breaking Bread, and you, which is kind of crazy because the whole show is about how people grew up and where they ate, and I haven't had any of my family on, even though I've talked about you all nonstop.

Yeah, we know. We know. We know. So, well, I'm honored to be on. I really am. Thank you. I have had the privilege of having some of your bread and it's delicious. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Now, but do you think that your palate had changed? Because you moved down there when we were kids and we had all this great Italian stuff, our whole lives up in New Jersey, and then you fled to the south. And I remember my father sending care packages of Italian pepper. Baroni and pasta and sauce down south because you could, at that time, you couldn't even get it down there. Yeah, no. You know, I was nine.

So I didn't feel it as much as like my mother and my dad felt like we were on another planet because, you know, we were the only Italians in Little Monroe, North Carolina, or one of the few for sure. and we didn't have any of it. Right. There was no bakery except for, you know, the Food Lion bakery, which is okay, but it was just not what we're used to. And I remember, yes, the care packages that we would get and it would be like Christmas. And I didn't know you could send like a ham in the mail back in the house or, you know, a salami or whatever. And my mom really went to the South taking and screaming and my dad got a good job opportunity. I mean, we really are happy we did, but it's still an evolution.

I mean, people are still looking for a good bagel in the South. It's so crazy. Did you feel like you lost some of your Italian heritage, or did you hang on to it, even though you picked up this funny accent. I know. You know, I was hoping. I was going to try to calm it down, but there's no use. Probably.

I mean, I may have lost some things, but, you know, my mom always cooked a lot and very Italian stuff. And we came up to visit quite a bit the first we were on the other planet from, yeah, I'm sure I did miss some of that. But you feel like when you tell people, you tell people you're Italian, you, I mean, up till nine, I mean, that's when all those big meals at grandma's house were happening anyway. It was like when we were, when we were younger, like when I think, because I always, you know, you always romanticize things when you're a child, but all of us sitting in that dining room, like with all the different generations of people and grandma bringing out sauce and all the rest of it,

I feel like that was, the very vivid memories are from being very young. Yes, and that was the best. I mean, I just remember being in the kitchen with Grandma, and she would make, like, fried artichoke hearts. So she would bread them and fry them. Right. And then you would put it in sauce. And, oh, my gosh.

So I definitely, even though I was pretty much raised in the South, I always have a good appreciation for Italian food. Right. And it's funny because a gentleman that I'm dating right now, I met his mom not too long ago. And, of course, the first thing she said to me was, I bet you make good lasagna. That's kind of, you know, what should I say back to her? You know, but I did not. I just smiled and, you know. You should have said, damn straight I do.

Yeah, right. You're from the South. Yeah, I don't even eat a recipe. I'll figure it out as I go as I go. That's right. As I go through it. Yeah. So I think in the South, still, being Italian in the South is still a big thing, you know,

a differentiator of the Italians. Everybody wants to be Italian. So, you know. Exactly. And do you have, do you have, I have very clear memories of when we were a little running around that house. Oh, Tom, those are the best memories. I mean, I was just talking about it with Uncle Al. You know, that growing up in that environment and that tiny little house with all of us, I mean, I don't know how many cousins there are.

We have so many, I don't even know the number. was the best experience, and I wouldn't trade it for the world. It was Christmas we were there and the summer picnic and all the food. I mean, we can't express to everybody how tiny this house was. It was so small. It was so small, and it had one bathroom, and the tiniest kitchen, but the best food came out of it. I know, and we were one of 21 grandchildren. children at the time. It's changed. We've added a couple more. But that was like 21 of us all just

running around in that tiny little house. Yeah. Then the aunts and uncles and grandma. And how wonderful is that? And then everybody got older than boyfriends or girlfriends would come too. And I mean, I know I had to study sometimes on, you know, some of the cousins like, okay, who is that? And what order are they? You know, see as often as others. I know. And now that they've all got, and now that everyone else has children.

Oh, forget it. Now forget it. It's so gigantic. Yeah. And the most and caring people. We're number one for sure. But I think it's that part of it. I think it's that part of it.

sure that everybody got together at the same exact time and did the same. And there was like, you thought that that was the most important thing. And it was kind of like we were brainwashed with meatballs. Oh, yeah. How horrible at that. I know. If you're going to join a cult, that's a pretty good one to be a part of. That's right.

There's a meatball. My future now is my brain is just one big meatball. Inside my head is now just a meatball. Exactly. Well, we'll spend more time on, I'll have you back. This was kind of an audition. This is kind of an audition in the show. But I think there's so much to talk about, I feel like it went well. Yeah. Well, thank you. I do too. Now, yeah, we can talk about maybe some of our skinny cousins that don't need as much as you and I do. I like to, I don't really like to talk about them all that much. Oh, okay.

Well, enjoy the piggly-wiggly. Say hi to Uncle. I will. Thank you for having me. Yeah, and I'll talk to you really soon. Okay, love you. Bye. Love you too. Bye. Well, there you have it, everybody. That's the big show. Thank you for joining Breaking Bread again. Thank you to Phil Rosenthal and my cousin Michelle. Both amazing, both family. That's what it's all about. A little food, a little humor. La-di-da. Thank you so much for subscribing. Make sure that you subscribe if you haven't. so you're updated on all of the episodes and you don't miss a single guest. They keep coming. They're great. I love doing the show. And next week, I will actually be here in the studio with our friend from Bell's Bagels. So subscribe, leave stars, do all the things that help out the

podcast because we love doing it and bringing it to you. All right, everybody, enjoy your life.