Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 74 - Scott Conant

Episode Date: October 5, 2021

Tom is joined by chef and restaurateur Scott Conant who shares secrets from his new book Peace, Love & Pasta.And it's time for a Quick Bite with martini loving Dave Hill. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, it's our goal. Hey, it's time for Breaking Bread with Papa. Hey, don't you know? Hey, it's also a show. Hey. Welcome everybody to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. I'm Tom Papa. So good to be with you on this glorious, glorious day.

We've got an amazing show for you today. We've got the great chef, Scott Conantan. He's a great restaurateur, all-round host. He's an amazing guy. I love this. conversation. And then we have a quick bite with the great Dave Hill. I figure if we're going to talk to a famous chef and restaurateur who really cut his teeth in New York City, you got to check in with Dave Hill and see what he's up to in New York because he is my co-pilot in all things

decadent New York. So we'll spend some time with Dave as well. I want to thank the good people at Lathwaite's. Lathwaite. Who? loves wine. We love wine here. We all know that person who brings the best wine to the party, something new and different every time. How do they do it? Maybe their secret is Lathwaites. Lathwaite. Let me spell it for you. L-A-I-T-H-W-A-I-T-E-S. Lathwaite. Lathwaite is a subscription wine service and you can be that person at the party. All you have to do is text Papa PAPA to 64,000. That's Papa to 64,000.

And you get six amazing bottles of wine plus two bonus bottles and two stemless wine glasses for only 4999 plus tax with free delivery. That's text, just text Papa, PAPA to 64,000 and terms apply. It's a great service. I got some wine. I'll tell you about it a little later in the program. A really good service. So thank you to our friends at Lathwaite's. So it is fall. We are rocking along. I found myself decorating for Halloween in the house. And now that my kids are getting a little older, it's a little strange because I'm decorating by myself, which is kind of weird.

There was a time when you would take the box out and you would be like, oh, remember this spider? And they would jump up and down and say, yeah, I remember that spider and then take it and go place at some place in the house as we would decorate. And it's not happening anymore. I dip into the box. I take the spider out. I say, who remembers this spider? And Frank, the pug, stares at me and my wife is on a call in the other room. and my daughter's ignoring me.

And I say, I remember, I remember that spider. And I go and place it someplace by myself. And I have to say, you know what? I think this is why I had kids in the first place, because I actually enjoy it. I'm like online looking at lights. I'm looking at maybe a spooky fog machine. And I'm looking at the William Sonoma

email that they sent and I'm like, you know what? Maybe I could use one of those little pumpkin bread pans with all the little pumpkin indentations on it. That would be fun to make. I think the whole reason I had kids was so I could do all that stuff and not feel like a moron when I was younger. But now at this age it feels like, yeah, now you're just that guy. You're just the guy that makes pumpkin bread by himself and puts like dog ears on or or a devil horns and walks around the house. I really don't need other people. It really comes down to me.

At the end of the month, I'll have, maybe I'll talk about it in the next episode, but as we get closer, but the thing, the big meal on the horizon is the Halloween chili, which is, I don't want to brag, but pretty legendary. So all I have to do is befriend some other children in the neighborhood and have their parents come over and eat it. But it's usually a big party, which is on a Sunday this year, which that is pretty cool,

because Sunday is my big cook day. And then I can make the chili and have the whole thing going. And maybe even by then I'll have the William Sonoma thing. It does look cool. All right. Let's get to the big show. We have a lot to do today. We've got Scott Conant.

He's a famous chef, restaurateur, all-round good guy. I love talking to him. And he has a new book out called Peace, Love, and Pasta. It's a really cool book. I got it on my iPad, which was such a good move because the photography in it is insane. It's really hard to get good photography. I have tons of cookbooks and it's tough to make it look really good. All this stuff pops and I think it's because his dishes really pop. It's really a multicultural collection of recipes. There's Turkish recipes, an Italian and American, and it's really, really well done and well thought out, and it makes you want to make all of it.

And it's very approachable, too. And that's what you're going to find in this conversation that I have with Scott. Very accomplished. You know, he's been all over TV. He's got books. He's got restaurants. He's just amazing. He's got two rolling right now in Arizona. And he opened Lampero in New York. That was his first big success, when all the press and everybody came knocking at the door. And that was his big thing in New York City when I was a young comic. So, of course, I didn't eat there because I couldn't afford it. But he is such a cool guy. There's like, you know, to be a really successful restaurant personality, as we've learned

even on the show when we've talked to different people, you are a host. You have to have that thing. You can have skills as a chef, but it's more than that. Your personality kind of permeates the whole. whole place. And Scott is one of those guys. You'll see in this conversation, there's a, there's no, it's not a fluke that he has the success that he has. He's an amazing guy. We had an amazing conversation and I can't wait to go to his restaurants and have him cook for me, which is really, you know, the reason to do this podcast is so I can connect with my comedian friends and make

new friends in the food world who will then feed me for the rest of time. And I'm going to track Scott down. And after this conversation, you'll see why. So enjoy. This is a conversation with Scott Conant. And then when we come back, we'll have a quick bite with Dave Hill. Where are you, Scott? I'm in Scottsdale, Arizona. Oh, nice. I moved here about five years ago. From New York? From New York. Yeah. Wow, that's a big change when you're not 80. Yeah. Yeah, I promised myself, I promised myself I was going to golf twice a week. That didn't happen. That hasn't happened. I told myself I'd slow down.

That didn't happen so much other. I did the same thing. I had this. When did you learn golf? I was, I think I was like 30 or so. Yeah. And when you look back,

are you like, how did I have the time then, but I don't have it now? It's, you know, I had a weird job. I had this consulting gig through the summer of 2001.

And I would just, you know, take weekends off and things like that. It was like a consulting job. So, you know, no, nobody asked any questions. I just, I just took off. It was great. I know. I always, I always have like my friends I used to golf with and these like golf outing guys and stuff. And they're like, what are you doing? Why aren't you playing golf? I'm like, I don't know how I had five hours in a row at any point in my life. It's a, it's a time suck, right? I mean, it really, you just get lost in that, which is a, I guess it's a good thing sometimes, but I agree with you.

It's just that taking that time and kind of checking out completely. Yeah. It's a challenge. It's hard to do that. I know. I know. We'll get to it again. And then our knees will be shot.

We will have no muscle tone. It'll just be one of those guys that shoots straight and short. It's, you know, that's the best part about golf. You could still have game. Right. Exactly. How do you like, so how long were you in New York and, total. I was in New York City for 27 years. Wow. So yeah, I met my wife there, had my children there,

and one day I woke up and I said, I mean, do you live, you don't live in New York. Yeah, I was New York. I still call myself a New Yorker and I've been in L.A. You know, then we kind of started splitting our time and then at a certain point we, when the kids wanted friends in one place, we shut down New York. So it's been like seven years since we've been there. Like, there you go. Since I turned in my keys. Yeah, same. Well, it's been five years for me, but I went back and forth for, I still go back and forth, but I had an apartment there and all the, and then finally, I just said, it's time to cut the cord, you know, it's, it's time to just make a decision for crying out loud. I know. One foot in and one foot out. Yeah. It doesn't work. I know. My wife and I were like,

this is like the most boring conversation and we've been having it for 25 years. I'm like, do we stay in New York? Do we leave New York? And then, but I, but I, I have to say that first time you go back and you just have a hotel key in your pocket, it is a little weird. It's weird because you feel like, you know, a misfit of sorts, right? I'm walking down the street and it's like, you know, I know this place so well, but I'm staying at a hotel. It takes some time to adjust.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, congratulations on your book. Thank you. I want to get into that for sure because peace, love, and pasta is could be an alternate name for this podcast. Great. Great. But let's jump in it a little bit just for our listeners just to get a little more familiar with what you've done and you've accomplished so much. And once you start off with when you decided, because you talk about a little bit in your intro too, when you decided that food was going to be your destiny. Well, I went to a vocational school in Waterbury, Connecticut, where I grew up.

And people always laugh at me when I tell the story, but, you know, I wanted to get into plumbing. They had told me at the time that if you were a plumber, you could make $35,000 a year. And the other, you know, kind of vocations, you only made 30. So, you know, that five grand to a 15-year-old kid is, you know, that's the life for me. Yeah, that's a jet ski. Something. So I signed up for plumbing. Too many people had applied for the class.

So it was the second choice I chose culinary arts. And unfortunately, I got in. My third choice was hairdressing. And, you know, there was all kinds of hairspray jokes. I'm sure you're going to, you could run away with. Right. So why, what was your family background that, that was there anything that, like, pushed you into food? Were their grandparents? Were their family members? Or was not a big part of the

family? Food was a big part of the family. And it still is. My mother's family's first, my mother's first generation, Italian-American. My father grew up on a farm in the north of Maine back in the day. And they, you know, food was always a focal point of the table. My grandfather had this huge garden that I talk about quite a bit in the book. And, but, but, you know, but, you know, but, But nobody really ever said go into food. As a matter of fact, my mother never thought that that was a real job. I mean, she actually, my father questioned my sexuality. And my mother, that's true.

With food and hairdressing circling around? I guess there's plumbing jokes in there too. I'm sure you could throw around with. But my, and my mother was like, what are you going to do? You're going to work at friendlies? When you get older, you're going to flip burgers? Is that, you know? So, yeah, I took it, I've taken it elsewhere.

Yeah. So where were you a kid that Friendlies was in your orbit? In Connecticut, there's a lot of Friendlies, yeah. Nice. Yeah, I was North Jersey. Oh, there you go. Friendlies was, that was the spot. Those fries were the best.

Fries were the best. Those Sundays were spectacular. I could still, like, you know, there was always a toss-up. Is it Carvel or Friendlies? Two very different ice cream experiences. But it was so cool, though. It was so cool that like you could roll in there as a little kid. I don't know.

You didn't need much money. But I remember like sitting like in a booth with my friends at a very young age. Yeah. Like you could actually roll in and like have a restaurant experience. I guess he can call it a restaurant experience. Kind of. A little sticky. There was always a cute girl like waiting on you.

That's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. And the sticky tables, I have a good memory of this. That's a good, yeah, that's a really good memory. Yeah. It is amazing, though, when you talk about that, like, how your mom didn't even think that would be like a career. Like, that generation just cooked. They just were feeding the family.

They were just cranking it out. It wasn't like that, like, we walk into the kitchen. I walk into the kitchen and it's like, okay, I'm creating on this Sunday. And it's like this big, like, artistic event. They were just like, let's feed these kids and get them out of it. Get them to bed. Let's get them to bed. Even if it was, you know, one o'clock in the afternoon. Anything to, you know, go outside and play baseball, would you?

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and it was at the same time that I started, I got into those classes for culinary arts, I started working at a family friend's restaurant. So I remember walking into the kitchen for the first time and just experiencing this camaraderie and the sense of team. And I just fell in love with it. And I remember saying to my mother, like, I don't know where this is going to take me in life, but I know that this is where I want to be.

Wow, that's such a great thing. Those moments are so, they're so profound, really. Like, you could just be stumbling around and you could have been miserable as a plumber and taking those courses and if not had walked into the place that really was part of your soul. It's all about exposure, I think, and it's all about staying open to it is another one. how many times in your life do you come across that moment where you're like this is it this is this is where i want to be if you're lucky it comes across once yeah a lot of people never have it a lot of people never that's right that opportunity it's it's a very rare thing how old were you at

that point i was 15 15 oh man yeah that's so great yeah it was a long time ago and it was a different world i mean you know things things like food tv didn't exist back then and obviously there was no internet and all that kind of stuff so yeah it was a long time It was serendipitous that it kind of fell in my path. Yeah. And I, and I, and I, and I've loved it ever since. When you were, when you were a kid and what was like the meal and who made the meal that was like the thing that really excited you or if you, if you were down, they tried to cheer you up

with it. Like, what was the? Well, every Sunday, my mother made tomato sauce, you know, pasta with sauce and meatballs and sausage that which she would stew. The recipe is actually in the book. I did this kind of my version of it. I'm never going to be able to find it, of course. But there's a great photo in this of my mom's kind of Sunday sauce.

And it's great. I had a caller and say, you know, mom, how do you make this? And all this kind of stuff. Did she write any of it down? I was, we forced my mother to actually write all the stuff out. because there was all these great recipes and we didn't have any of them. Well, I did ask her to write it down. Here's a photo of that, like the sauce and the meatballs and there's a couple of lamb shanks in there if you could see it.

But that's every Sunday, that was it. And we would walk by, you know, she would always buy this particular bread from Waterbury company called Maliti's. I don't even know if they're still around anymore. Right. And we would just dunk that bread inside the. sauce and that was you know breakfast lunch and dinner it was great god the best good stuff do you do you make that sauce for your family now i don't i cook completely differently than that i've made it for them and they loved it i i did a show the other day and i had to make a style a similar style more like a

neapolitan ragu with little pulpitine which is also in the book and and they just ate it up My wife, who's from Brooklyn, who's Turkish from Brooklyn. It was so nostalgic for her. She's like, it reminds me of going to my friend's house on the weekends. Yeah. She was really mad at me, but I left it. I had a run. So I jumped on a plane as soon as I was done with it.

I left it all there, and she very promptly ate it all. And, of course, it's all my fault. So what, so what, why wouldn't you be baking that, making that on Sundays when you're, when you're around? What, where is your, where is your, do you always, This may be a tricky question. You may be exhausted from cooking that you don't cook at home that much. Oh, I love cooking at home. And I love those experiences with my daughters.

Yeah, there's a beautiful shot in the beginning of the book. It's just so cute. Thank you. Yeah, they, of course, you know, all those photos were taken about a year ago. And so my oldest, who's now 11, almost 12, is like, oh, my God. Like, how that picture, it's awful. How do we get this book off the shelves? like it's you're stuck there

funny I know I have two daughters as well and I'll I'll like you know how the iPhone like pops up the the memories and stuff

and I'll like crush you just like oh I can't believe it and I'll share it with the family and every time one of them comes back with ew I was disgusting I was disgusting why am I sharing this with you

cutest kids cute as kids cute as guy. I miss those days. I don't miss the work that went into taking care of them because it was, I mean, arduous is an understatement. Right? Yeah. Oh my God. But I do miss the cuttiness and the cuddliness and they liked me. I know. Seemingly liked me. Yeah, they actually told you things. They did. They shared with you. I know. It's so funny. It is. So when they were that little, where were you in your career? Like when they were like, two. two or like two, three, four, five. I, um, I had a restaurant group that I was, that I had founded and I was running. Uh, and then I stepped away from all of it. Um, and I kind of, and that was what precipitated the move to.

I, I just worked nonstop. And I regret that. I regret those days of, you know, missing their, missing them so little because they were just so. Yeah. Perfect. You know, they were just amazing. I know.

But you had to. It's that weird thing? Yeah, yeah. You had to. So what was your first spot when you opened up your first restaurant? So I was kicking around New York City for a while. My first review was 98 at a restaurant called Keanti. But the first restaurant that I actually was a partner at was a restaurant called Lean Paddo in 2002.

And that's when everything started taking off for me. We won Best New Restaurant and James Beard Award. I won Best New Chef for Food and Wine and all the stuff that, you know, those accolades that, you know, you're kind of, quote, unquote, supposed to get. And we had a great run there. And then I stopped that. We opened up another restaurant called Alto. I sold my shares of that company. I went on to to start a restaurant called Scarpetta, which I've been put in a bunch of different cities.

And then I walked away from that also. and I'm doing other things now. Where was Alto? It was on 53rd between 5th and Madison. Between 5th and Madison. Yeah, north side of the street. It was a big piece of the Berlin Wall outside, and it was just like an art installation that was beautiful.

And everybody would walk right past that into the restaurant. So, yeah, it was a special time. That had to be a pretty heady thing when you start winning those awards and it's all popping off. That was 2002, you said? 2002 yeah 2003 stuff were you like oh was it that was it a confirmation or was it like it had to been well i'll tell you the first time i saw my name in the new york times ruth rachel had written about me and and you know ruth was just such you know she's such an icon yeah and i couldn't

believe that you know she had come into the restaurant was a small neighborhood restaurant at 55 5 5th and 2nd Avenue. And Geraldine Delaney was my PR person at the time. And she just, she pushed. And she was also representing Jean George. And that was when Jean George opened up his, you know, his signature restaurant, John George. So the fact that she gave us any attention was shocking. But because she had, she had J.G for crying out loud. But, but I'll never forget picking up the paper and, you know, working hard and, you know, being an American guy in an Italian kitchen is never, frankly, is ever easy. And then, you know, my name was, my name was there and she liked the restaurant. And, you know, there were a couple of compliments in there. And I was just overwhelmed with all

of it because I was, you know, I was so, first of all, full of gratitude. And on top of it, I felt like the clouds had gone away. Like I wasn't crazy for thinking that my food is good or special. Right. And that was, and that was a, that was a big moment. That's a, that's a great way to describe it. That's a great way to describe it when the clouds went away, right? Because you don't know. Like, you're passionate. You've got this real strong feeling that you're on the right thing. But then you have a lot of years whether you're just not getting the break or you're and you're watching other people get the breaks. And then when it happens, it's like, oh. And the tough thing is when you see people who you don't think are doing as good a job as you are, right? I mean, we're all critical of ourselves and we're critical of our colleagues and, you know, you're, you know, you're.

trying to you want everybody to have success but not as much success as you so yeah that those were those are big things and um i was just you know later on i kind of parlayed into other other opportunities um and i and i you know gratitude along the way i think is really important i never take this stuff for granted god knows yeah there's too many there's too many you know there's too many things that can go wrong. Oh yeah, 100%. Here's a question. I'm sure you'll be able to answer it. I'm always puzzled by the, it's almost like looking at a director with film. Like, you have your talent, you have your personality, but you can go into a restaurant. There's so many other moving parts. And there's, I mean, everything from the table to the cutlery to the thing, like how do you

get your personality? How does the head chef's and owner's personality, persevere and become like actually the feeling of the place. Well, I think that's the culture that you have to create. You know, that like any business, any entrepreneurial endeavor, I feel like it's the culture that you're creating is more important than the, you know, the quote-unquote widgets that you're making. So, you know, once you have your culture in place, then you could pretty much do anything, I feel like, because you have everybody is kind of on board. like-minded people. I always think that success of the Beatles was because they were all in the same

place together. And it was almost like they were channeling something with the amazing amount of talent that they, in that, you know, that constant evolution that they were creating for themselves as well. And I, and I think that that's, I think I really in my heart believe that that's what it is. As long as you're, you know, you're vibing in the same, on the same wavelength, you know, you could, you could do anything yeah yeah oh that's a great answer that's a that's pretty perfect so what was the what was the what was the main what was the main dish of that restaurant at the time when you were winning the james beard and all that what was like the the signature so i was i was talking to someone recently and he had pulled the menu out um and it was it was you know it was broken down

the appetizers pasta's main courses it was a really good cheese course with root with ruth rachel at the when she was at gourmet magazine um uh wrote about a little bit she she was at the restaurant all the time which was also very flattering uh but we did this three course menu and it was thirty nine dollars for three courses wow i mean think about that yeah you know that that doesn't happen these days and that was a you know that was a high-end restaurant it was a three-star new york times restaurant yeah um but we you know it was a creamy polenta with a friccassay of truffled mushrooms which was one of the dishes that I did. This spaghetti Pomodoro,

which I still do to this day, it's been successful. I tweaked the recipe over time and stuff. And then I did a moist roasted baby goat. It was Capretto. And those were the three highest selling dishes. People would come in and order them all the time. That was kind of the three courses that everybody was helpful.

Oh, man, that's so great. Yeah. How difficult is it to maintain? consistency. Like you get that and it's like you have to try and nail it all the time. That sounds pretty, you know, every time I make something, it's profoundly different each time. It's a big challenge. It really is. I mean, you know, getting recipes and making sure they're right, I had a restaurant one time where one of the sous chefs just couldn't make things, like just like you're saying, he just couldn't do things twice the same way. It would drive me crazy. Like, how do you do a shittaki

consummate and have it be a different color, a different flavor every single time you make it. Like, what are the customers going to think about this? What kind of soup is it today? I mean, it's really bananas. It's crazy. So those are the, you know, I think that all falls under the culture thing also to make sure that, you know, every day walking down the line, doing line checks, making sure the chef and sous chefs are tasting everything and it's consistent all the time. Those are monotonous jobs, but necessary, obviously. And I think drilling that into a young chef's head is the most important thing. You know, you see it all the time.

If somebody is making something that's inconsistent, it's frustrating for the customer. And ultimately, it's not about me. It's not about, you know, the cook, you know, try to get that through a young cook's head. Yeah. It's about the customer. You want the, you want the customer to be happy and sad. satisfied and coming back and yeah every time they come back and get that same dish they want to have that experience and also the uh you know the server they need to feel comfortable selling these things

and if you know that that sales pitch you know the expectations aren't met by the customer yeah they feel really foolish and that's just a terrible place to live right there's no you know there's that's a trust thing that goes back and forth between the front of house and the back of house right right there's nothing better my favorite waiter move is when you're like should i have the should i have the duck or the chicken and they don't even look at you they just start writing and mutter under the breath oh the duck like he ends the conversation i just love that move the duck is more expensive on the menu so they're going for the you know they're going for the upsell oh that ruins it i do you know i do that in every restaurant just to just to see what's your

best thing? What's your favorite thing on the money? Oh, you got to have the venison. The venison is amazing. The venison is $65. The chicken is 19. Like, of course you're going to go for the venison. It's terrible. All right. One more question about the old days. Then I want to get into the book. And when you were hitting it, that 98, I was in New York as a young comic at the time. And it just seemed like the, I couldn't afford to go to all these spots. But it seemed like it was the celebrity thing of the chefs, the New York thing, like all of those big names around New York. Was it as exciting and fast-paced as it seemed from the outside? In hindsight, I think it was fast-paced. But, you know, it's like that Whalen Jennings and Willie Nelson's

song, like you just want to go a little faster, put that beat a little faster. Like, I'm ready for it. you know, I'm here. Like, we're on this treadmill, let's go. But, you know, Gourmet Magazine back then would have monthly parties. And they were great because we would see everybody. And we, you know, all these chefs would show up for it, all these restaurant people. And it was just, it was just good times, really. It was really good times.

Yeah. Oh, man. Did you, a lot of cooks, chefs and stuff ended up, drinking their faces off and and parting like really like rock stars and stuff. Did you have a phase like that or did you keep it even? I did. You know, my roommate at the time owned a pretty well-known wine shop. So we would sit down with bottles of wine.

And I remember one time we were hanging out of the shop and we drank the two of us. We drank 23 bottles of wine over an over an eight-hour period just sitting there. Needless to say, I don't drink anymore. But, yeah, once the, you know, once the tequila started flowing or there's a bottle of tequila on the table, normally when the chemicals came out was when I would, that was, you know, that, that was, my father would have killed me if he thought I was doing drugs. So I, I would sneak out. I was a good boy.

But, yeah, the alcohol, we would drink our faces off to use your line, 100%. Wow. So you're cold turkey now? No, like, wine anymore? Yeah, I was at a wedding a couple months ago and the bride's father was a really good friend of mine and he broke out some great barolos and barrarescos from the 80s. And I can't say no to that. Like that's because that's not drinking.

That's just, you know, that's history in a bottle. That's appreciation. I was actually in Italy for some of those pressings, as a matter of fact, some of the bottles that he was opening. So yeah, so it was special. And yeah, but other than that, I just can't that the idea of, you know, drinking tequila, which was my preference. Yeah.

It just kind of nauseates me now. I hate to say it. It's really, yeah. Oh, no, I get that. Bad news. Yeah. No, but you're right. I mean, those bottles are just, I mean, that isn't drinking.

That's an experience. That's like going to church. It really, it really is. Yeah, there's all kinds of church jokes I was going to throw him right, but I'm going to keep it above board. That's right. Yeah, thank you. Sorry. Family show.

So you have this really great history and it's such a great trajectory and pretty wild times when you look back at it and like going to restaurant groups and getting all that stuff. And then it's pretty cool that the beginning of your book, which is piece of, love and pasta, and then people can get it right now, is you start off with in the praise of simplicity. Yeah. I love that. That to me is like, you know, I'm far from a great chef, but I do love cooking and baking. And I'm always thinking just do fewer things really well rather than try and do everything.

Well, one of the things that as I was cooking through this book and testing recipes and and working with my culinary assistant at the time. I was shocked in how these things would kind of come together so quickly. I mean, if I, you know, these are things that I've cooked for decades now, honestly. Some of the recipes are from my childhood. Some are, you know, from my neighbor growing up, Kathy Vitone, who was like a grandmother to me. There's her spinach soup inside there. But there are variations and versions of these things.

And I think that overall, the surprising thing to me as I was cooking it was they would just really come together quickly um you know sometimes things take a long time to cook but once they this morning I did a TV segment and we made this uh roasted pork shoulder um and as I was you know it's like eight o'clock in the morning and I'm lopping off pieces of this pork shoulder saying oh my god this is delicious really I mean it's amazing when some of these things they they're so easy to put together You know, some of the ingredients, I have to admit, you can get online and things like that. They're maybe a little bit out there, but they're easily accessible.

The neonata, for example, there's a fusili with chicken livers in neonata. Neonata is like, it's a little baby fish and Calabrian chili spread that they have in Calabria. But you can get that online. And it even says, if you can't get the neonata, use a little extra fish sauce and some. extra colabrian chilis right so there's a lot of there's a lot of things like that that yeah is you're cooking these things and it's starting to come together you say wow that was it's done already yeah yeah that's pretty cool and the flavors are the flavors are where you want them to be that is that is a that an interesting thing just for home cooks to keep in mind is that think ahead

like you always you can't just roll into the kitchen be like i'm going to try this from this book this new recipe because it's going to be three things and three runs to the store. But if you think about it a day ahead, my wife goes, laughs to me because I'll be sitting on the couch reading a cookbook. She's like, it's not a novel. What are you doing? I'm like, I'm just, you'll be, you'll thank me on Sunday. But in a lot of ways, I mean, you know, listen, just as far as that idea that you're putting a recipe together, I always tell people read the recipe through first and make sure that you understand the steps. Because if you're just kind of going at it cold, you're looking at the ingredients, okay, I have all this stuff. You start to assemble things. You get on the third step, you're like, oh, I wish that I'd known, you know, just read it through fully. Yeah, yeah. Treat it like a novel. I mean, you know, why not? No, I love reading it. And this book is so beautiful. It really is. I mean, I don't know who did in photography, but it really looks, everything looks so amazing. There's a New York photographer named Ken Goodman, who's a longtime friend in just a real.

talent. And he came out to, right in the middle of the pandemic, and it was in July. He came out. We rented an Airbnb, and I got my culinary team together, and we just assembled all these dishes over a four-day period. And he knocked him out. I mean, we were, there were, there are so many photos kind of that aren't in here, which is unfortunate because there's some great food photos. We just could have fit everything. Jeez. I mean, everything's, oh, the New Yorkie with clams look so good. I've never seen it with clams. It's a really good texture. It's a great yucky recipe, I have to say. Yeah. I have to say. Yeah. So what's your advice to someone when you are in search of good ingredients? Like, because it's so many times you'll like roll in into your supermarket

and you get a tomato and it's like, ah, you know, it doesn't have that flavor of, you know, it's And sometimes, like, you'll nail every ingredient in a recipe, but it just doesn't pop. Yeah, a lot of times, was there something else? I don't need to interrupt. No, that's it. I think it's like you said, you got to think ahead. You know, sometimes you have to get a tomato and let it sit on your counter for five days for it to ripen. You know, avocados are good luck timing those things, right?

They have a whole cycle of their own. But yeah, I think it's important to time those things. And also, you know, a lot of times I feel like people try to rush recipes. You know, it says saute the onions for seven minutes. Every range is different. Every, you know, the amount of heat and BTOs that come off of every range in whether it be home or commercial usage. They vary. You know, an electric stove is different than an induction than it's different than a gas stove.

So I always say go with feel. If it says caramelize the onions, take the extra time to caramelize them properly because that depth is a foundation of flavor. And I always say that the first thing you put in a dish is going to be the last thing you taste. So the last thing you put in a dish is the first thing you taste. If you finish a pasta with basil, you can serve it right away. You're going to taste that basil immediately. That perfume kind of comes off off the food that you're cooking. So it's important to check.

those steps, allow yourself the time to nurture the food that you're cooking. I always say if you put, just put the same love into the food into the cooking process that you do for the people that you're cooking it for. And you're really, you can't lose. Yeah. It's amazing. It's such a, it's almost an eerie thing, but there's such a difference when you're cooking with people in mind. When you're like, it really does something to, I don't know, just to the way you're going after it. You just have them in mind. You want them to be happy. They're either returning or it's somebody new.

And I try and do it every Sunday. We try and have people over, and especially young people who are hungry or like in school and are poor. And really, that dish will be, it will come out better than if I just was making it for like myself. Well, that's a smart move to cook for people who are hungry because when they become really successful, you know, they owe you. Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah, and it's better than people our age because no one's at the table talking about their colonoscopies.

Yeah, all the medication around now. That's funny. So here is your wife is Turkish, and you, you know, you have all this Italian roots and stuff, but it seems like you mentioned that you're cooking a lot that way. What is, I'm not really, I'm not really that aware of. what that style is. Oh, it's very Middle Eastern, you know, humus and, you know, their version of the Tzaki and all that, all that kind of stuff. Some of the stuff that's inside here, I mean, you, you can call it whatever you want.

Yeah. There's, there's dishes that, you know, could be Lebanese. I mean, you know, it's just, it's Middle Eastern food. So as you go throughout the Middle East, a lot of those things, you know, it's the same, but different, you know what I mean? There's little tweaks here and there. Um, but there's a, a burik that I'm, that I put inside the book. It was one of the first things my wife ever made for me.

And I just fell in love with it. It's so good. I did a meat one and burik, B-O-R-E-K, um, B-O-R-E-K, um, and it's, there's an eggplant one and there's a beef, a beef one. Um, and they're just, they're, they're just special. There's so many things in here that if, you know, if I can't, I can't, I can't just choose one thing to say this is what I would cook for you today. Yeah, yeah. No, I know. I just scrolling through it. And I also have it on my iPad. So the lights coming up and it's like so beautiful.

It's like all lit. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, I mean, I'll go through it also. There's, you know, there's this prime rib photo that is in the middle of the, yes, right in the middle of the book. And it's just good stuff. This is the Pernil, you know, kind of a play on a Pernil, the, the, pork shoulder that I did earlier today. I want to make this on Thanksgiving, but no one in my house eats pork. So it's, you know, it's just, it's just, oh, that's my problem. I have, I live with, I live with three vegetarian women, my wife and daughters. And it's like, that's a challenge. It's such a challenge because even like these little pasta dishes, I just want to put anchovy in it. I just want to put anchovy in it. And, uh, you, you end up making two or three different

versions of the same thing. Oh, it's such a challenge. That's love. If you're cooking for your family like that, that's love. There's no way around it. Yeah, you got no choice. They're going to not eat. It's so funny.

Once we got two dogs, and for the first time, my wife is like, she's more accepting of me cooking meat in the house. Because she's like, the dogs. it like when i was cooking for myself she was like ew just stop it and now that now that that Bella can possibly get some she's like yeah do we have any meat today

that's great that's hysterical yeah the dogs are better cared for than you are that's basically yeah completely better looked after yeah she has a better relationship with them that's funny man but this is exciting though to try this turkish stuff because i love middle eastern food but it's it's a weird thing i mean i was raised at town and that's my whole language in the kitchen is that and just because I have all those references and I know when something and I'm going the right way

or the wrong way and like to go and start like I'll order Turkish food or I'm Middle Eastern food but I don't have like the roots and the history so it's like you know it seems more daunting to me it is you know that's the way I approached it but you know

there's a simplicity with that food as well which really you know which really you know it dovetails i would say in a lot of ways to to the food throughout uh throughout you know the mediterranean and part of europe right so we have and we have a home in in bodrum also uh which if you've never been to bodrum it's gorgeous right on it's right where the adriatic and the mediterranean seas meet uh i'm sorry the aegean in the mediterranean meat and it is stunningly beautiful um you know you go out in some of those waters and some of the islands or interspers, some are Turkish, some are Greek. And it's just beautiful. It really is. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like a good spot to go to.

So what are you up to now? Besides the book, what's going on in, are you, you're working just primarily in Arizona? Do you still have your spot in New York? I have one in New York in the Catskills. I was just there for the book launch. As a matter of fact, it's at a casino called resorts world. And we did a we did the book launch there. I can't believe how many people showed up for it. It was really great. It was really good for my ego. That's great. That's great. Is the cat skills? Tell me about the cat skills right now. I haven't been there in years. Yeah, it's going. It's going great. I mean, I have a statehouse there called Chileo. And it's it's busy and people are happy. And you know, what else is there when you're when you're

you open up a restaurant you want people to enjoy it so yeah um yeah in the hotel they're great it's a great partnership uh cool it's as i said it's very busy and uh and it's it's going it's going really well yeah that's awesome that's good yeah if you were to have told me that i'd have a restaurant the cat skills and it would be busy i would say you were crazy but it's but it's working like it was really really popular at one time you know yeah people would go up in the 50s and and 60s and stuff, and then it kind of really fell off. But it seems like it should, it's one of those, it's like Atlantic City. It's like this should work.

You're too close to these major cities and people want to get away. Doing it right, like it seems like it would be a good destination. It's good to hear. Yeah, it's going well because of that. I mean, it's, it is surprising to me how many people go up there and say, I used to come here as a kid and I've been here for, you know, 15, 20 years or whatever the case may be. Yeah, yeah. There's so much nostalgia for.

for so many people in that area. Yeah, very cool. And what's your other spot? You get in your Arizona spot? I have two. I have one called the Mora Italian, and another one called the Americano. Americano is a steakhouse and more is kind of like a modern Ostoria.

Oh, nice. That sounds great. Yeah, it's great. Man, oh man, all right. Well, I'm going to adjust my tour and roll back through Arizona. I haven't, I went through there before we met. Yeah, I'll have. I'll have to do it for sure.

I'd love to sit down and break bread with you for sure. I'd love to cook for you. Yeah. That'd be fun. That'd be fun. We can cook together. Yeah. No, I know.

I don't want to screw things. All right. Let me ask you this last question. Yes, sir. In my house, as I am, what is the most important thing to have in your kitchen? I know that's kind of like a big list. But that's a good that's a good one is it the knives is it the what is it you know the one thing that I found that I've said this a few times that once I really started cooking at home a lot during during the pandemic I you know I needed the right tools and it depends on what those tools are it depends on what you're cooking. So you know like a really good spider like a you know like you know the you know what a spider is right like it's a it's like a net not a net but like a strainer. kind of like a strain, but it's on a, it's on a handle.

So you can just scoop things out of the water. That's really important, I found. Things like a really good peeler, for example. You know, if you don't have a really good peel and you're struggling with it, you cut yourself, whatever the case they be. I mean, just having the right tools to get the job done the right way is vital. It's imperative. Having proper saute pans and things like that.

So yeah, I had to go to storage and take everything out. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a tip on pans? My pans are just all crap right now. And I'm like, we've got to really, we've got to upgrade. And what, what are the right kind?

There's, there's so many. A lot of people are talking about Maiden right now. Maiden? Yeah, M-A-D-E-I-N. And Tom Clikio's behind him. He really believes in him from what I understand. Right. There's, there's, I have a lot of Alclad.

I have some, I have some, a demire, and I have some Moviel. Moviel are what I buy in the restaurants. It's a really high-end saute pan. Right. And they're, they're going to last your whole life and your kids' lives. I mean, they're going to be around forever. All right. But you can't sleep on a great cast iron pan, right?

I mean, I love cast iron. Yeah. I know, so do I. I really. Oh, my God. They really are the best. and I'm the only one in the family that has the muscle strength to pull it out of the thing, so it's mine. There you go.

Well, thanks so much. This was really great. Good luck with the book. Everybody's got to go out and get it. It really is so beautiful. And congratulations. I'm really on just a great career. The book is Peace, Love, and Pasta.

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This is a good service. I'm so happy they're part of the breaking bread experience. And I wouldn't steer you wrong. It's a good, solid place to enjoy wines from all around the world and impress your friends and act like a cool guy. All right. Now it's time for a quick bite with our good friend Dave Hill. As you know, Dave and I, Dave's on my live coming to pop all the time. He's a very talented comedian. He's a writer. He's got, I think, three or four books out now. He's an amazing guitarist. He's got a crazy band called Witch Taint.

He's hilarious. His Instagram is one of the funniest out there at Dave Hill. Just one of my favorite people. And I love more than anything when I go to New York. I get to contact Dave and then we go out and eat, usually at our secret spot, which we'll talk about in New York. It's not really a secret. We can't stop talking about it, so you're going to find out in the phone call. And we just love everything about going out in New York and dining and eating, and we're not going on like the top end. We're not millionaires. We're just solid lovers of New York. and good experiences. We love a nice cold martini,

and we love to go out and experience it. And I apologize. Dave brings up something in this conversation that's pretty upsetting on a food level. Nothing you've got to turn the radio off and not let the kids hear. But it's pretty disgusting. It really made me question,

why do I go out and eat with Dave? But this is actually, it answers the question, why I don't eat breakfast with Dave. But the rest of it is on point. Love Dave Hill. So let's get on the phone and give them a quick call and grab a quick bite with Dave. How's it going?

Really great. How are you doing, Tom? I'm doing well. I just had a bagel. Wow, what kind of bagel? Which is pretty, you know, I got them on Sunday, but then you have the extras. And you're like, Sunday you're like, okay, I can go crazy and go bagels. And then Monday, you should start dialing it in.

That may be an apple. But there's that big fat bagel just waiting for you on Monday morning. And I know I'm going to be asleep by noon. I did it anyway. You're a champion. I'm doing my part. You know, I've been on this diet where I eat a lot of bagels, and I find that it tricks my metabolism.

What do you mean? your body it sets your body into this state of shock abuse you're stealing to it and it it fights back so once you get the rhythm you can have a bagel every day

oh really you've seen me lately I'm looking fairly trim right yeah you're looking fairly trim I think you know it's funny because we were virtually the same size and we're body doubles

body doubles. And I have to like, I'm literally filming something for the rest of this week. And I was like, I'm going to drop down five pounds to, before I shoot it. And then, of course, bagels and things interrupted that plan. And so I'm going in a little heavier than I am. And I realized this morning, nobody knows, nobody cares. this is you know exactly you're exactly right

I mean I my weight is fluctuated over the years and I know there's things I can look at on camera where I was like oh wow I was really at my best right then and I don't feel any better about it even myself I'm not like I don't look any better than I did when I was 15 pounds heavier

I'm just getting through life. I know. And you beat yourself up. Like, I'm so fat. What's wrong with me? I'm a monster. And it's like, I think I'm going into this one just free. And just saying, this is just what it is.

And you know what? If I want to eat chips in the green room, I'm eating chips. Do it. Live your life. Plus, like, you know, as we get older, Tom, you know, really got to lean into the character actor roles anyway. So an extra 20, 30 pounds, that's just more bookings, I think. It's true.

No one's coming to me to take the place of Bradley Cooper. Yeah. I mean, I think you would do a bang-up job in any of his roles. Well, he's the guy I'm gunning for, but... Yeah. So we had this... We had this great guy on the program a little earlier before I put the call into you, Scott Conn, who's this great chef in New York, restaurateur and just a really talented, good guy.

And whenever I talk to people about eating out in New York, I feel like I got to give Dave a call. I got to check in and talk about our triumphs and our next plan of attack. Oh, yes. I'm ready. What do you been doing in my absence? I, dining-wise or just life-wise? Yeah, dining-wise. You know, I think I've probably been genes, you know, as much as I don't like to say the name out loud for fear of ruining our secret restaurant.

I've been there a few times, I'm sure. Nice. indoor or outdoor I'm still I'm still outdoor I mean I've eaten indoors a few times but I you know I sort of if I can have a nice outdoor meal

I'll go that route just trying to dodge Delta as long as I can or whip me around like a rag doll it'll it'll catch me eventually but so far are you going with the are you going with the same at jeans

your same game plan or have you changed it up? I mix it up. Sometimes, well, I mean, I really only have a few moves. I'll do a chicken parm. I'll do a penny with tomato and basil. And then, of course, the power move, as I think we've discussed on this program, I hope. Maybe we haven't. But the chicken liver moves on garlic bread, which is the best one to reliving.

I was dayduring on the plane about jeans and I was thinking, you know, it's a cool James Bond kind of move. Sliding into the bar, ordering a nice cold martini, getting the chicken livers on garlic toast. When the martini's done, maybe two martinis, and the chicken livers are done, you pay your tab and walk out the door. I mean, that's restraint. That's the definition of restraint, Tom. Is it restraint or is it the definition of cool? It's pretty cool. I mean, I thought you were going to say that you were going to land on the roof

and a helicopter first or something. No. You just put a large tip on the bar. You do the gun fingers at the bartender and you walk out. And I guarantee you you'd be satisfied. that you know you're you're right maybe i'll try that tonight wow jealous and report back we also have to go to

one of my other favorites frenchette have you been there yet oh you know what i have not been there but i was looking up french spots last time i was through is that the one on the side Yeah, it's in Tribeca. Right. How is it? It's the best.

I mean, you know, and it's like, it's amazing. Really? Yeah. I'm friends with the owners, too, so I can, you know, I can make it happen. What's your go-to there? Well, the menu is always changing, but the lobster is great. They do a duck that's really great. You're cracking open like a lobster with the bib and everything?

No, no. They do that for you. Oh, that makes. Yeah, because I don't like to do a lot of work when I'm, I just like to shovel. You know I am. Yeah. As anyone, when people, when you're like in Maryland stuff and people are like, oh, do you want to go crab, you know, where they just dump like 500 crab on the table and you're supposed to work? no

no interest I did that I did that when was it a couple years ago I was on tour with live from here and we went through

Maryland and we went to one of those crab places like the legendary places and we were with the band Dawes and we

got these big cramps I was like oh this is going to be fun this is authentic and I had like one little tiny cut on my finger from whatever like a paper cut. Oh yeah. It was the most excruciating meal of my life. Oh yeah.

Yeah. Every time. Yeah. And the shelves can cut you two. You're right? And it's like, um, you're filled with sodium from old bay. Oh, yeah. It's horrible.

I just usually give up all together and just get. really drunk. Watch your friends. Yeah, because I don't like meals where you're working for the food as much as you're shoving it in your mouth. Right, exactly. Anything that comes with a bib, you should be leery of. Yeah, don't even get, don't get me started on fondue and those things also where you

have to cook your own meal at the table. Right. I don't even like seeing the waiter just. it like when you go to like a benihana kind of place like i don't even want to see that guy sweating no that's a nightmare yeah not into it so what do you have for breakfast today i'm glad you asked tom i'm on a new i know this goes against everything i just said about the bagels i did buy a bunch of bagels this morning but then i had my new thing is i learned this from Do you know, are you, you know Puddles Pity Party?

Mm-hmm. Puddles. I went and did a thing with him in Atlanta. Oh, I'm sorry. It's all right. And he turned me on to, this is a disgustingly healthy thing you can do. Mm-hmm. You make oatmeal and then you put spinach in it.

What? And I know. I thought it was insane, too, but I tried it to be polite. But you put spinach in the oatmeal, and then you put blueberries and whatever. Like, everything else you put in there are just reasonable things to put an oatmeal. So you put spinach in, and something, I don't know how, because spinach I usually think of as being, like, not something that hides itself very well. But you just put it in your oatmeal, and you don't.

even taste it and you get like a free serving of spinach you get some you get an iron dump it's healthy yeah whoa okay but what about the consistency of a big slimy spinach leaf in your oatmeal it's not a big deal really tear it up or you get you just mix it in i make it in the microwave because you know i'm on the go going with frozen spinach no you got to get fresh And you just put it in there, you microwave it, and then you mix it in, then when you're mixing in whatever other stuff you're adding, and you don't even notice it. I've got my girlfriend eating it, even. This sounds horrible. It does sound horrible.

But it's really, it's good. I mean, it's like you eat oatmeal and it's delicious, and then you're like, oh, Oh, and I also ate spinach unwittingly. I mean, you're aware it's right in front of you. Right, but you can trick yourself into thinking maybe you didn't. Yeah, it's like less, you know, without all the heavy lifting of eating a salad. Yeah, I remember being taught or told to crack an egg and put it in there, or egg white, and throw that into the oatmeal on your microwave it.

And that didn't go well. That's disgusting, Tom. Wow. You know, normally I don't cringe at things and I'm always willing to try something, but that one's, I know, I may not try that. No, it sounds horrible. I was at his house. I thought it was insane. And I tried it.

And I was like, oh, wow. and I've been doing it ever since. Wow. This is weird. This is really weird. All right, before we go, do you have anything you like the people to know about you or have any shows coming up? I'm glad you asked. Yes.

At long last, my comedy special, which came out as an album on A Down on Gorillas, the Pride of Cleveland, is being released as a special that you can watch and really later this. But I don't, see, this is problematic. I don't know, I know the release date is sometimes this fall. So it's really, this is really not the peak promotion.

This is the teaser. This is the teaser. You're going to have to have me back on the show to really hammer the date. As long as the phone. phone works I will get you back on perfect that's uh and when are you coming to back to New York I think I'm coming back to do the um to do the Halloween special on October 26th perfect are you around of course yes that'll be fun that's always I think that's our best show

of the year excellent yeah it is almost as scary is your oatmeal and spinach I'm going to, I don't know, I'm going to work it out. I'm going to get, maybe I'll, maybe that'll be the thing, maybe that'll be my best to the show as I'll bring you some of this. All right, buddy. Good talking to you. All right, you too, Tom. Thank you.

All right, I'll see you soon. All right, that's our big show. Thank you to Scott Conant. Thank you to Dave Hill. Thank you to Lathwaite. Thank you to you. Make sure you like and subscribe. Make sure you keep spreading the word.

And joining us here. at Breaking Bread. You guys are the best. Keep it coming. If you go to tompapa.com, you can see my family reunion tour. See if I'm coming near you anytime soon and drop me in line and tell me where I should eat. You guys are the best. See you next time.