Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 75 - Tony Hale

Episode Date: October 12, 2021

Tom is joined by former cater-waiter and current actor extraordinaire Tony Hale, who also makes a mean rope bowl.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, it's our goal. Hey, it's time for Breaking Bread with Papa. Hey, don't you know? Hey, it's also a show. Hey! Welcome everybody to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa. I'm Tom Papa. Thank you so much for being here.

I'm so excited about this one. We get to sit down with the great, probably one of the funniest working actors today, Tony Hale. Yes, that Tony Hale, you know, from Veep, you know from Arrested Development. He's so great. I love him so much, and he was so nice to come and spend some time at the table. I gave him some bread. He gave me a rope basket. We'll explain.

It's really so much fun. You're going to really love this interview. He's so damn funny. He always turns the questions back to me because he doesn't want to talk about himself that much, but I break him down. I love Tony Hill. So we've got a great show for you today. I also like to thank the good people from Lathwaites. Lathwaite, if you like wine, we all know that you want to be cool, right?

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And you get six amazing bottles of wine plus two bonus bottles and two stemless wine glasses for only 4999 plus tax with free delivery. Text PAPA, PAPA to 64,000 terms apply. All right, we're not going to go into a long, intro today, we're just going to jump right in because I love Tony Hale and I want you to love Tony Hale even more. And you don't get to hear them like this in these long interviews very often. So here's a little treat for you.

And make sure that you're eating a lot of candy and pumpkin bread because that's the time of you're and you really should be doing it. And also you should be baking a lot of bread on your own. Tony Hale. Was AJ your last guest? No, Al. This is all things comedy. This is all things comedy, which was kind of like a consortial.

of comedians looking out for each other and like, you know, giving each other like production and stuff like that. And we built this company to have a safe place for comedians to do podcasts or film things and stuff without being just thrown out to the wolves. And the idea was that we would all kind of like support each other, kind of like the old MGM model kind of thing. And Al is like one of the integral. he's like one of the founders, him and Bill Barr.

Oh, wow. Yeah. That's a really cool. It is really cool. That's why he said, do you need anything? When he said that, I was like, am I doing it with you? Like, I didn't know what he was saying. Yeah, yeah.

So, no, it's been great. And they built our little space for us. That's so nice. That set looks familiar. Who set is that? Oh, that's the old I love Lucy set. Oh. Yeah.

Lucy. Oh, by the way. I don't remember the other couches. This is a, we'll start. I interviewed Lucy Arnaz. Oh, yeah. And she just released a podcast that Lucille Ball did. Yeah.

Did you hear about this? I think I heard about it. It's her interviewing other celebrities, right? It's amazing. Yeah. Like her just hanging out with Dean Martin. What's it called? Lucy's podcast.

That's right. Lucy's podcasting other celebrities. Yeah. Lucy talking to famous people? That's right. That's right. She was very nice, though. I met her on the set of this being the Ricardo's movie I did.

Oh. She was very nice. She was? What did you play? I play a character named Jess Oppenheimer, who was the creator and showrunner of I Love Lucy. Oh. So were you cutthroat? Did you yell at people?

No. I was nervous, which is a common theme from characters in my career. I've never seen that. Really? It's in every single one. A lot of hypertension. Are you at a point now where people are like, just get us a Tony Hale type? Have you seen that on sheets?

I used to see that when I did commercials a lot in New York. Like they would say like a Tony Hale type. And I just remember thinking, why don't you just call me? Yeah. I'm available. Right. I could use the work. Exactly.

Why isn't my agency on this? Going on. You did, were you in, you, you came from New York. I came from New York. So how many years were you there? I was there for a long time, like, um, 15 years. And you, because I was there from 95 to 2003. Yeah, that was about my thing too.

And I started splitting time around there. So I even stayed in New York longer. But I was out here also, like, We were going back and forth with the kids. Did you do commercials? Very few. Just a handful. Yeah.

I remember all those casting directors, and I was terrified for them all. Commercial auditions are always so embarrassing. Embarrassing. And it's just like you just walk in a room and you just see all these guys who look and act exactly like you. I was the quirky type who wasn't all there. Right. That's how I was kind of defined. Right.

Did you ever run where you were booking a lot? Yeah, I mean, I would say towards the last two years of being there, I was able to, because I had so many jobs when I was there. I never did stand up, or improv for that matter. But I had a lot of odd jobs. And so when I started getting more commercials, I was able to lessen the, I caterweighted a lot. That was like, and I actually really enjoyed caterating, waitering because I hated waiting tables because people were so mean when it came to food. It's so mean. and just so upset if they didn't get something right.

And I would leave the restaurant just hating the world. Yeah. But cater-waitering, you just set up the party and you didn't really have to talk to the people. Right. And then you got to eat this great food at the end of the night. And then you just, you got 20 bucks an hour. And it was like, great. That is great.

I'm actually doing a bit about that in my act now about how we should be nicer to each other in general. And you have to stop being shitty to waiters. Yeah. It's like, do you have to understand like the chain of events that has to have to happen before you get your food. Yeah. And then that last person in that process, they're not the one you yell at. Yeah.

And you also don't want to be shitty to them. Like, that's not doing you any favors because I've heard stories of like what they'll do to your food. Yeah, absolutely. When those doors closed in that kitchen, you don't know what they're doing. Those are the last people you want to be mean to. Right. Yeah.

I always say be extra nice to the bus boy. Oh, yeah. That guy's a rascal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I remember, I remember like we would, when I was waiting tables, I would, if somebody didn't

eat like a steak or something or just had like a couple of bites, I'd cut off that section where their bite was and I'd eat the rest. Or I'd take it home or I'd take home all the fries they didn't eat. If they'd just like had a bite of the cake, I'd just cut that part off and then just package the other one, other half. And I had a great meal at home. These are pre-pandemic jobs. So funny. I was talking about that the other day when I was in New York in the beginning, I was so poor. Like I would do the comic strip on the Upper East Side for $5 a spot. And I lived off that money for a while. Yeah. I would get that five bucks and that's how I was going to eat the next day. Yeah. And that's before taxes.

Right. Yeah. Because how many like how many gigs were you doing a night would you say? How many places would you go? And when it like was really jamming and I can do all the clubs. like once I got past like the early days. I would do like six, gosh, seven and just run around. And you just knew all of the owners and all that stuff? Yeah, so you'd put in all your avails and then you'd map it out and you'd be like, okay, so I'm going to do all of these on that night and you'd time it out with everybody. So you gave them, do you want me asking this?

Yeah, I know. You gave them, I've never known this. So you called, you would call an owner and you'd, would say, I'm availed this night. Right. And then they would then give you a spot then so that you could schedule your night? They would give you for the week. So each club has their avails line.

And you would call up and say, I'm available Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. Oh, wow. All night. And then each one was kind of like staggered. So you would get all your spots for stand up New York on the Upper West Side. Yeah. And then the comic strip would call and say, here are your spots. and you'd make sure that you can match them all.

And you just string them together. So when you accidentally, which I'm sure happened, double booked yourself or two, would you have to call one of them and say, hey, can I switch to the spot? And they were always cool about that? It depended. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were like stand up New York would be cool about it. Comic strip would be less cool about it.

The comedy seller would say, would make you feel like if you moved your spot, you'd never work there again. Or work again probably. Or work again. Yeah, they were so scary. Was there just a lot of passive aggression, too? Like, yeah, sure, man. If that's really how you're feeling, if that's what you want to do.

Okay. If that's, okay. I'll make a note. I'll make a note. Oh, Lord. No, like nobody wanted to cancel on SD. Esty was. And he was where?

She was the comedy seller. She books the comedy of stellar to this day. And it's so funny because as everything settled down and I, you know, rose up, I would just go to the comedy seller. And her and Manny, who owned it, the original owner, they were like my family. I was there every single night. And they were just like lovable. We'd go out to eat after and stuff.

And then to see new people show up and be like, terrified of SD. Like she's still doing it, you know. Okay. If you want to cancel, you can. I'll make a note. Oh, no. Because it was so hard to get into the club. Oh, yeah.

And when you go back, do you kind of reunite with a lot of these? stuff like that. That's nice. That's like a really nice little community. Oh, it really is. So when you're acting, if you're not doing improv... I'd like to keep talking about you. If you're not...

I know. If you're not... If you're acting, but you're not in improv and you're not doing stand-up, were you just a lone wolf? Or did you have, like, your stable of friends

that were all doing it at the same time? Yeah. Yeah, I did sketch comedy. I was in this group called King Baby and we would do we would write sketches and perform those, but it was not improv based. And I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed that.

Where were you doing that? We did it at the Lambs Theater on 43rd. And then we'd go down to, shoot, I remember it was a cross from like an avada. Uh-huh. It was in Tribeca, but it was, anyways, it was like one of, it was like a club down there. and there was a museum on top or a gallery. And we would just kind of randomly, whatever spots, we wouldn't hit like we were not a part of the UCBs or anything like that.

It was very kind of off the radar. Yeah. But it was really fun. And I mainly did like off, off, you know, Broadway, but not professional off Broadway. Right. I'd see stuff. I'd get backstage magazine. Yeah.

And I'd obviously just go through there and I'd circle possibility. and then I'd audition and just did like plays and really loved them. And then commercials, you know, it was kind of where I, so when I temped, I would also temp. And I would go to this temp agency called Mademoiselle Temps. And I would, I could never go for more than a day because I didn't know if, with commercials, you didn't know if you were going to get an audition the next day. So I'd go for the day and I'd sit in the lobby and they would always be played these Jim Carrey movies and it was like a big purple room.

and then they send yucks they really just like if somebody got sick they just sent you out to like they need a warm body sitting at this desk and right and so they'd send me to like these fancy banks and vogue one time i tempt at i just like me and my khakis just like what's going on and just all these uh UCB all these places yeah i was so excited because they had great cafeterias these places had great cafeterias and back then you can make as many long distance phone calls oh nice i mean now it's not a big deal but back then that It was huge. It cost a lot of money. Yeah. So I would just do long-distance phone calls all day at the desk and no one would know about it. And then I'd leave. And they'd never ask me to do anything because they never trusted me. Right. So it was just a warm body that day. So I just made long-distance phone calls and ate their food. That's amazing. Do you remember like going to find phone booths? Mm-hmm. Like there was a there was a, there was a subway.

In the subway. Yeah. Like you'd get your pager and you, and then. And it was like, I might have an audition. Yes. And there was a great on a on 23rd Street. The toy. building, the toy something building. On 23rd? Yeah, it was right by, um, right at the flat iron? Yeah, right at the flat iron, but a little west. Yeah. And they had an old time bank of, of phone booths, old wooden phone booths. I think that was near Dallas Barbecue. Was there a Dallas Barbecue? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you could go in there and it was like, something out of like Superman movie. Yeah, yeah. You go in, make your calls and get your auditions. I remember my number. You do? 212604, 4963. and I would dial it and I don't know if yours was like this

if it clicked immediately there was a voicemail so if it went immediately to voicemail you were like and just this flood of joy went through your body because it was only for the agent so you were just like and then you dial in your code and then you'd hear them like hey

you know I had Linda Linda McIntosh was my agent she was like hey Tony you know hey I give me a call when you get a chance I got some news for you and I was like Linda Linda

my you didn't get it Tony, you didn't get it. I'm so sorry, Tony, you didn't get it. I was like, oh. And she'd always describe me as like a not so good looking David Schwimmer. Oh, geez. And I was like, Linda. She was like, you know, you're not there yet, but like, you're cute.

That's so great. They were so honest with you back then. Oh, especially New Yorkers. Oh, my God. Yeah, doing stand-up. I remember auditioning at the comic strip and they're like, yeah, well, we already have a likable white guy, so I don't know why you're going to work.

And it was like, well, how do I change that? Also, like, I don't, there's like a balance because you always, especially the acting schools, there's like, yeah, you got to break him down to build him up. Right. But just like, it was too much. I mean, I don't know if it was because the city was so hard, but I remember going, I won't say his name,

but I went to this one acting teacher that was really popular. And it was just so, everybody was walking on eggshells around him. I was just so terrified of him. Oh, my God. We were studying Meisner, and, you know, you kind of have to have a safe space to do Meisner. And he was just like, everybody was just, like, terrified they were going to do the wrong thing. And it was just like the worst thing that could possibly promote any freedom. And then I went to the school called the Barrow Group.

Do you remember the Barrow Group? No. It was a really great school. And that was just like, it was actually the first time somebody was like, hey, this is like play time. Like you're supposed to. Right. Enjoy it. Because he gave a stand-up.

or sketch comedy. It was like the idea of play was not even in the framework. You go to these acting classes and people would be like, Tony, that was really great work. Your work was amazing. Man, we're getting together to the work.

You're just like, oh, my God. Yeah. And then this whole idea of play was like, oh, I guess I should incorporate. Yeah. Yeah, my love of life. Yeah, like why I'm here. Like, I don't know.

So it wasn't even. Did you go to HB Studios? Did you do those? No, I didn't do HB. It did Barrow and this other crazy ones. I did HB was like that. It was like just like an angry former actor from the 70s and it was just like, oh, tell us about you and your father. It's like, oh, geez.

Yeah. And it's like I do get it. I get with, I get there trying to get to vulnerability. Mm-hmm. But it's like, it got to the point where you're in a class and if somebody cried, they were like, oh, Merrill Street. You know, it was just like. They cried and the thing is like, well, and so everybody was just trying to like emote and cry.

It was almost like we were all just wanting people to say, good work, great job, good work. You know, and it's like, I cried. Do you want to cry again? You know? So weird. I know, it is so weird. But there is something to, there is, I mean, well, let me ask you. You're a great actor.

Thank you. You're so believable. Like, you were one of those people that you do not. see the acting. Oh, that's nice. You just see this, oh, he is this person. Like, you totally, which is such a difficult thing. You, especially when you're in it, you see when people are acting. But you're just the character, which is, so how do you get there? Do you have, do you take things from your training or are you playing? Um, well, I remember doing this, I did this movie years ago where it was called the, it was called the year of getting to

know us. And I was playing this character that was described as, like, well, I remember doing this. like really manipulative and kind of a douchebag and kind of a player. And I just remember thinking, oh, I hate people like this. I hate people like this. I don't want to play this. I hate people like this. And I went to this great coach here in L.A. called Diana Castle.

And she said, she says, Tony, you have to acknowledge that this stuff is in you. Like, these things are in you. And the fact is, she's right. I have been manipulative in my day. I have been, I'm not proud. I've been a bit of a douchebag. I've had moments of, you know, entitlement. that I'm not proud of.

And it's like the more you begin, the more I began to see these things in myself. Yeah. The more I felt like I wasn't necessarily playing an idea of a character. I was coming out of me. And so like I think for many years, I was kind of like if somebody said, play this, you know, I don't know,

CEO of this company. I had this like idea of like what he would be like rather than, okay, so the CEO has got leadership skills. He's, you know, he's a motivator. He knows he's obviously great people person. And I think like I can bring that into myself. And the fact is if I go into the audition and if I do and if I bring that out of myself, I might not get that role.

But I tell you, no one else has done that because it came out of me. Right. Whereas if I was playing an idea of something, there's thousands of guys who could play that idea better than me. Right. Of course. So I think that was a real kind of like, huh. Yeah. So like you think about like these characters.

like Gary on Veepe or something, you know, I struggle with anxiety. I'm, I have codependency in my life. Right. You know, you can kind of draw on these things. Yeah. And even if like you are playing someone really evil, you can find, you know, like in this Benedict Society show I do, you know, he's very sarcastic. He's, he's kind of manipulative. And it's like, like the other character, like, I have been manipulative and I like sarcasm, you know, it's like, you can find that in you. Right. Not to say it always works. And when you are finding that, what is the process of finding that?

This guy that worked under Diana Castle, Joey Borgoonia, I worked with on Benedict. And a lot of it is going through the story and just kind of, like, for instance, these two brothers on Benedict's. I play twins on Benedict's Society. And just kind of thinking about their life. You know, they came from an orphanage. Curtin, who's kind of the evil brother, which I kind of see it as like, he wasn't really evil. He was just kind of really broken, but his brother Benedict was adopted and he wasn't. And so, I mean, that really like caused a tremendous amount of resentment. Right. Typically with resentment, what

happens is a tremendous amount of, you know, anger and fault finding and victim, making yourself the victim and, you know, so just kind of thinking through their life and really, because I've, honestly, I deal with a lot of resentment. I have, I have resentments. Sure. To, to, to people in my life. And it really does not breed the best outcomes. Right. It doesn't do any good. No. You know. Yeah. And so I can see that if let loose, that's not a pretty picture. Right. So you just to kind of spend the time. Yeah, just kind of daydreaming. And I'm sure, and I know, I'm sure you do this too. It's like, Like when going through the script, thankfully, I worked with Phil Hay and Matt Manfredi, who were the showrunners and wrote the scripts in addition to other writers.

They were very, very open to, yeah, it doesn't sound like something Benedict would say. Or this doesn't. Right. I feel like, what do you think about this option? And I've learned that rather than saying this is not, this is not right, I have to be creative and I have to challenge myself and think of options. because rather than going with them and saying no, it's like this feels a uncomfortable, what do you think about this or what do you think about this?

Right, right, right. Because I'm obviously feeling something off, so I need to challenge myself to think of ideas. Right, right. So that really helped. They were very open to that, which I really appreciate it. That must have been so difficult, though, because what you're, as I'm trying to catalog your daydreaming and coming up with the character and, like, that's a lot of work and you've got to really believe it and have it really be part of you when you're going

to do it and then you're doing this with two characters in the same on the same it's that's a lot it was a lot but it's like i'm so i'm so grateful i mean like you it's just like we're so grateful to have gigs right you're just like man i'm so grateful and it came at a time where i was we shot it in vancouver and um and i because of the pandemic uh i couldn't come back for i came back home for five and a half months right i remember you told me that so like i was I was just in this end. I couldn't really hang out with anybody. Right. And so I was just in my apartment. God. And just really, it's all I could think about. So I come home and I'd go through the script and I'd, in the, and Phil and Matt were in L.A. And we'd zoom and have like wine together. And just talk. And I was able to just really kind of dive in. Wow. That's great. It's like a nice little like acting summer camp in a way. It kind of was. I really kind of was. Veep was kind of the same way because I remember VEP we shot in Baltimore.

and all those first three years and everybody was, their families were all back home, so we kind of became each other's families. And we do the gig and then, or we do that we shoot and then we go out for a drink and just talk about the day. Oh, that's great. It was nice to kind of get that foundation.

Yeah. Oh, man, that makes so much sense, though, because I'm sure you've been in things where people aren't really hanging and you kind of clock in and do it. And it's like, yeah, well, of course, that doesn't all gel. Yeah.

And I mean, I've always, like your guy's community with stand-up, it's, I'm sure when you do gigs that it's, you all go out and just hang out, which is to me a huge part of the joy of it. Huge. Of just being able to be like, can you believe that guy? Right. This person did this and she said that. And just to kind of congregate and, you know, go back and forth.

And you almost have to, it's like we tell each other the same stories over and over and over again about like how you're doing your work and who these people are. are and like how we're going. And you have to be told, it's like you have to refresh all the time. You have to constantly. It's like the stones like rehearsing satisfaction. If you've heard that. Like they still when they were, I mean, I don't know what's happening right at this

moment, but still like in their most current tours, they would still rehearse satisfaction. Really? Yes. And why is that? Because you have to remind ourselves. Oh, we never, we never retain everything. we're constantly changing, constantly evaluating. And I feel like that's what the community kind of gives you is like,

when I can roll into the comedy cellar and just sit there and listen to people. It's like, we're very, no one, we, I can't share this with anyone else, but these people. They're the only ones that have this perspective. Yeah. Do you guys do bits to each other? No, pretty rarely. I mean, with some close ones, you might say, is this, you know, is this anything or. Yeah.

And some, some comics, like, really love to talk. about it like I would talk to uh like Seinfeld when I started working with him on the road and stuff he loves to like if you just tell him if you tell him I've got this bit about a pellegrino and I'm thinking about you know every time I hold the bottle I'm more arrogant arrogant than I yeah and he'll be like he'll jump on it he's just like that's all he wants to talk about yeah yeah and other people are just like a little repellent to it yeah yeah but just having that having that community is but then you like you go through these these parts in your career when you have a family yeah and you yeah it's like you're not hanging out as often as you did unless you're forced unless you're trapped during a pandemic in

vancouver yeah yeah do you still is it kind of that that you kind of just do weekends or you how does that yeah yeah yeah and then come home and then go back out that kind of a thing and that you're pretty much alone that you're it's you in the opening act you know when you're headlining around the country You're not like once in a while you'll be in town with someone else you know and go out after. But it's pretty much. And it's exhausting. That's exhausting. You're doing two hours of talking a night.

And then I just want to go to the hotel and just lay there. Yeah. And I would think it would be hard to detox from something like that. Or is it not? Because I always associate it with, I mean, it's obviously maybe not hyper as emotional. But there's a story as of. of, I mean, was Alpuccino or somebody doing this really intense play in New York and it would end at 10 and they just, yeah, they went to the bar and they just couldn't detox from it.

Yeah. You know, and I feel like all that energy. Yeah. Like how you kind of come off that. I've heard that. But if you were to put a mattress at the side of the stage, I could say good night, wave to everybody and crawl in and be asleep before everyone's left the room. Are you a morning person? More so, I've changed into it because of children.

Yeah, I am. Yeah. I love mourning. You do? Yeah, I would probably be like that. I'm not, after 10, I just begin to start to dwindle. Well, here's the thing. I get that way too, and the second show starts at 9.30, and the opening act is on for 20 minutes,

so you're going up there at 10. And I always think that, like, the show is just me. This is the entire, there's no band, there's no nothing. And I'm really, we want to go to bed. now. Do you also have moments where you're, because I, I don't, again, I do not do stand-up and I have huge admiration for what you guys do, but I do have moments being on talk shows where I'm, I'm sitting on the couch and like Conan or whomever is there.

And, yeah. And all of a sudden, my body just leaves my body and starts watching my body. Yeah. And just being like, shut up. Just like, you're talking too much. Just shut your face, Hale. Your story is too long. song, shut it.

You know, and I can't. And then I'm, it's like, you just watch it. And then I'm not in my body. And it's just, it is weird. Yeah, those disconnected moments where you, I'll be on stage sometimes. And I'm telling, there's jokes coming out of my mouth. Yeah. And then the other part of you is doing that, is commenting.

Or like, what's after this? Do we know what's after this? Just keep going. Let's see if we have it. Oh, it was that. Oh, interesting. Or is it the kind of thing where you're reading a page and then you forget where you just read. Yeah, similar. You know, just because you said that story so much. Similar. Yeah. I mean, but

that, you know, but those are moments. You don't want to be in those moments. You want to be like, Oh, yeah. Connected. So you're always kind of like trying to get back on to the, is the 10 o'clock audience, uh, is, is there a different vibe or are those like night people? They're more night people. Okay. They're a little younger. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's different. And it depends on where it is, like, in the city. And if I'm doing. things at the comedy store, it's, they're kind of all the same. Yeah. But if I'm in Indiana, uh, that those people coming out at 10 are, they're the wild ones. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it is fun though. I'm so, but when I was saying like when you have the family and all that stuff,

it's like all that extra time is spent with them, you know? Yeah. And you come and I'm sure like you come home in it, then you step into, to family mode. Yeah. You know. You know. You know. Yeah. How do you do it when you have a new part that you're working on or trying to get and you've got the family around? Do they know dad needs to go into his daydream mode and lock away? Daddy's an angry face. Are you, I always find that difficult like to isolate from while in the home. Yeah. Yes. I mean, that's a bit challenging. I'm trying to think. I haven't, I don't know, like when it comes to, when it comes to really, um, fleshing it out. Yeah.

Like if I was to do a real, uh, angry something or if, I hadn't had to do really, really heavy, intense things, but a couple. Yeah. I kind of get, I kind of, I go through it in my head and I'm kind of thinking about it. I might get a quiet space to go, but it's when I get on set that I begin to really, uh-huh, like in the dressing room or something. Right. Really begin to flush it out.

Oh, yeah. Because it feels, it feels like the safest space. space there because right not so much my family but I think like if I'm screaming and the neighbors are wondering you know it's like your dogs looking at you it's all weird what's wrong with daddy yeah and so it's like when I get to the when I get to the space that's the time that I'll like really begin to flush it out right right well you're so talented I uh it comes from so much pain that those do you ever see the Phil Hartman acting coach no oh my god look it up on YouTube is that On SNL?

On SNL. Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm sure you'll find it somewhere. But Phil Hartman playing an acting coach in New York. And he just, the way, he's like arrogance. And he's saying, he's so, he's so confident about what he's saying, and he's saying nothing. Yeah.

And he's breaking these people down and he just like hates one of them. You know, it's so. Oh, I really should watch that. Oh, it's so good. Man, what a talent. Like, what. What a talent. What a talent.

God. God. I know. It's weird. I was actually, not recently, but a while back, he came to my mind. And I, just that, I just remember, I don't remember where I was actually, but I remember thinking like, what? Like, not only did he pass, but just the circumstances of it was just like wild. Insane. Insane. At the time, I was like, what?

Yeah, how does that happen? How does that happen? And then, like everything else, you've got to move on, but you have these moments of like, wait a second, that did happen. Yeah. I know. Oh, such a weird one. He was such a bright light. He really was. And he didn't join SNL until later. He was like...

Really? Yeah, he was like... He didn't come in as a... He was, at the time, I think he was the oldest cast member. Really? Yeah. You know, my wife was a makeup artist on SNL. Oh, really?

Mm-hmm. Is that how you met? No, we met at church, actually. Oh, really? In New York, yeah. But she, uh... Yeah, she was a makeup artist for seven years on the show. Like the Amy Polar and Molly Shannon.

Well, no. Yeah, Molly Shannon, Crowd and Tina Faye, and thank you. You're welcome. On a gas star, because each cast member gets a kind of makeup hair team because the changes are so fast. Right. And so Anna was on, or Martel was on Onas team. Oh, that's cool. So she did the whole Martha Stewart look and then the NPR look with Molly.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. It was great. She loved working on that. That's so cool. I mean, they just had a commercial, like a commercial break to change the entire wigs, bald caps. My God.

Make up just like in a two-minute, three-minute period. Did you get to go to the cool SNL parties? I did get a one. Oh, I did go to one. What was those are you some cool? I think I remember. Because it wasn't with her, though. It was, she went to those, but we were just dating at the time.

But then when Julia, hosted, Julie Lee Dreyfus hosted SNL, I went down, and I went to one of those parties, and it was very cool. Oh, that is cool. Julia's amazing. Oh, she's amazing. Oh, my God. I got to do just two episodes or four, I don't know, on Christine. Christine.

Yeah. And I just, I remember looking, I remember looking at the script before I came in, before we worked. And I was like, oh, okay, so, you know, you're looking at the scene, and it's like, okay, so I have the joke there, and then, She's, oh, she's setting me up for this joke. And then everything that she said was funny. Every, like the most boring, straight line, she, it was all funny.

Everything she did was funny. I'm like, the writers must be so blessed that they, I mean, there were great writers on there, but, I mean, that you have, like, she's going to take everything. Yeah. And she also, I was, since my character on that was so close to her all the time. So, God. I just, I got to even hear, like, the little. like grunts she would do and like just like the smallest things and yeah i was labeled which i don't

think is true i think she actually broke more than i did but i was labeled the one that broke the most and uh one time i broke so much she turned to me and she says tony you know you're not watching the show you're in the show i was like yeah but it's a funny show so i got a nice big box of wine from our friends at lathwaite's lathwaite's is a great subscription service that gives you a whole array of wines curated from all around the world. For 50 years, Lathwaite's has been delivering wine the right way from people who love making it. They find all these people, these unique people, bottlers and vineyards and winters, and winemakers. And they go literally taste over 40,000 wines a year. And only 600 make the cut. So you get to enjoy the cream of the crop. The wines I got from them are

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It's Papa P-A-P-A- to 64,000. Terms apply available at latheweights.com. Let me spell lathe-w-w-A-I-T-E-S. Laithwaite-W-W-E-S. Enjoy the wine. and now back to the show. There was a weird thing is when she, years ago, she was the blind lawyer

on Arrested Development. She played that character in Arrested Development. Right. And we both individually got the question, did we do a scene together on Arrested Development? And both of us separately said, no, we were never in a scene together. And no, we just weren't.

This is the first time we worked together. Yeah. And then somebody sent us a screenshot of a scene that we were both in at a desk talking to each other for an extended amount of time. And we just both completely blocked it up.

It's hilarious. It just made no impact on each other's lives. The rhythm you had was so great. Oh, my God. That was a real gift because... God. I mean, you know, when you work with somebody

that you feel like that rhythm is safe and established and you feel like when you throw the ball, they're going to throw it back. Yeah. Man, it was just like, I felt like it was just that we were doing like a dance. Like there's one scene where she was getting ready for some party and, and I was zip, I was zipping up her dress and I was putting her bracelet on and I was putting her shoes on and

I was putting her necklace on all during this like bit. Yeah. And we just, there was just, we found that rhythm and it was just like writing this kind of comic wave together. Right. You know, yeah. I could have done that a hundred times, which actually really, when I said that about satisfaction, and then rehearsing that song. It's like, since I'm not a musician, I'm like, that seems odd. But like, I would do that scene. Right. I mean, if I was given the chance, I would do that every opportunity I could because I just

love that scene so much. Yeah. You know. Oh, man, the move of, of you doing, you, you, I'll just, in my crude way, to sum it up, you actively trying to help her and do something and be a little meddlesome and her, like, tolerating and then her cutting you down. and the way you would cower and leave the scene or just like you're just like you're just like you getting caught oh what a oh yeah funny funny just absolute shame yeah right because also i she

she the thought of her when people would say god Gary like she's so verbally abusive to you it's just like no like she's Jesus right she's talking to me everything everything that comes out her mouth is glorious. I mean, why isn't she president? I just, I just, like, I was like, just completely blinded to any of her discussion. Everything she said was right. That's got to be so much fun. Like, when you talk about discovering the character, like, once it's locked in like that,

that's got to be a joy. It was a joy. And at the same time, as a process, like, you know, it's, it's really scary. Like, that, when we were doing, they brought us out to London, which was really exciting to rehearse for, for. the season or the pilot or something. And I was so nervous because, again, I don't have an improv background. I mean, I've gotten better and working with people like Matt Walsh, who like create UCB.

Like, I've really learned a lot, but I didn't have the background. And we would kind of go through the pilot and they would just kind of stand around us with all these, you know, English writers and just with their little notebooks and just write. And I thought, oh, my God, they want us to come up with bits. Like, I don't know what's going on. And so that first week, when I was just trying to find the character, I would just go up to the hotel room and just call my wife and be like, I'm going to get fired tomorrow.

I'm going to get fired tomorrow. I was convinced I was going to get fired. And then come to find out, everybody felt that way, except Julia, I think she was pretty locked in. Right. But everybody thought they were going to be fired because the process was so unique. Yeah. And then come to find out, they weren't really looking for us to come up with the bits.

They just were kind of seeing what gelled if it really came from an organic place. Right. And so that kind of relaxed us a little bit. Wow. It would be nice if they told you that in the beginning. That would have been a nice little informant. I think actually, and honestly, he probably did. I was probably just in this like, we got to come up with funny.

Because in the States, like, many times, I remember doing this movie years ago where I kind of felt like they were waiting for us all to come up with funny bits. Sure. The framework wasn't really solid. And so they kind of said, well, you know, he was on this and he was on this and she was on this. just put them together and see what happens. Right. And the director was like, all right, go.

It was just this like, I felt like all of a sudden, nobody's captaining the ship. And you're looking for me to bring the funny. I don't have any framework. What the hell? It was so nerve-wracking. And so I think I associated those two things. That was not at all Armando from V. But, man, the other one was a really scary experience.

Ma'am. I want to thank you for the rope bowl that you made me. You're welcome. I love doing that. It's so good. You don't have to like it so much. It's so great. No, because look.

Which, by the way, did you tell the story that I accidentally put, I put TPP on there instead of you? No. Yeah. I put, your initials are T-D-T-G-P. T-G-P. And we were doing our talk over Zoom. Right. And I heard T-P-P-P, and I put the monogram as T-P on the bowl, and it's T-G-P, so sorry.

I had no problem with it. My wife, so Tony makes these rope bowls. which as a bread baker, this is my hobby. I bake bread and I baked you bread. That's very nice. And baskets are always bowls, that kind of thing, are always in my kitchen. So to have that one is great. And that the initials are slightly off.

Makes me like it even more. There's paint on that. So careful with the bread. Oh, there is. Because I paint, you know, like that gold or some gold? there I think and that rope is painted gold. It's acrylic paint. So maybe I should tell people that before I give it to him.

Probably. How did you get into making these bowls? Well, when I was doing Benedict, this sweet girl named Shana or sweet woman named Shana, she, as a rap gift, she gave me a rope bowl. And I was just like, how do you do this? Because I've always wanted to paint. And I've, I really, the idea of sewing seems really cool to me. And so I just went on a YouTube dive and I would,

I would FaceTime with Shauna and she would like show me what machine she got. And I string the robe up on my back porch and then I paint, you know, whatever color I want to do. And then you just begin to sew the rope together. And then you mold it like you maybe kind of would pottery into a bowl. Oh. And then you take leather. And then I got an embosser, those kind of things that you emboss the leather.

And then I sew the leather. on the rope. I just like, it's the best thing. I did go through a huge, with like anything, you might have done it with bread where it's like, who wants bread,

who wants a ball? Like, this is the most exciting thing ever. And now it's kind of dwindled off. It has. Yeah, I need to get back to it, yeah. Yeah, no, I know exactly what you are. Look at the podcast. I haven't stopped baking bread.

For years, I can't stop. What kind of sourdough? Yeah, you can take a look at it if you'd like. I don't want, I didn't know. It's a little flatter than I would like, but I think you'll like it. That is so pretty. Yeah.

It came out this morning. Dude, that's really kind. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I'm going to bring you even a better one. I overproofed it, so it's a little flat.

I'm glad. I'm glad. You know what it is? I appreciate it. It's like getting the initials wrong. I don't want to say it. You know what? Here's the thing.

Nothing, nothing is more satisfying than hot bread and butter. The best. It's the best. It is the best. Like when you, when there is a hot bread platter in front of you, and there's,

and you put some like kosher salt on top of that butter, and that butter is kind of soft. It is, there is literally nothing better. It is so good. I literally on my way here was daydreaming. There's a place that has like a gourmet food thing off of the Sherman Way. And they sell this French butter in these wheels.

And I was like, I don't know if I had. have one in the freezer? I should just stop me and eat just in case. It's so great. And then like for the sweet, you just take the same brand and put some Nutella on it. Oh, Nutella. I've never put Nutella on this. It's so good. It is so good. It's just there's something, I mean, there's a, I love that you call this, uh, breaking bread because, um, it's just, it's super communal and everybody loves it. It is. I really do love it. I love the process of doing it. I love sharing it with people. You got a little weird during the pandemic when everyone was shut in their homes and I would

be knocking on the neighbor's doors like, do you want some bread I made in my kitchen? But what a gift. Like what a gift to like, I mean, I, to me, that's such a love, you know, offering. Yeah. And it really, there's something about it when you're doing it with the person in mind. Like, this is like a so like a flat, not ready. Yeah. Well, sometimes, you know, you let your friends down a little. All right. Not so good looking David Swimmer. No, but like last night I had a show at Largo. Hmm. And I, and it went long.

And I had fed the sourdough starter earlier in the day and then put the dough together. Like a monster it sounds like. Yeah. And then put it together like early in the evening. Yeah. And then I went off to Largo and I figured I'll go and I'll be back and I'll finish Tony's bread. That's really sweet. and someone didn't show up and I ended up having to go on last and so I was there for a couple of hours and I got home at like 11 and now it was kind of overproofed and I bet but I've got to get this done so I can bake it in the morning when I first wake up so it'll be ready for for when we meet so it's like the whole time you're on my mind and it's a great thing like you're thinking about oh yeah your your pal the whole time I love that yeah it was so do you look at this the starter this is I don't really understand

any of this. So is it, did somebody give you the starter or did you make your own starter? Both ways. A friend gave me a writer on, I wrote on the show called Red Oaks on Amazon and when one of the writers on there gave me some of his starter. And then my daughter, when I told her the story about this process of like, you used to take flour and water and yeast from the air goes in and starts to eat it. And then you keep feeding it more and now you've captured a culture. And then you keep that and you feed it for people having for like hundreds of years and and that starter uh so i had the one that was sent for my friend and then the one that my daughter started and the one that my daughter started is actually the very active really strong one. Hmm that's that one yeah and so is it something

you just take a piece of it and put it yeah so if you're gonna make if you're gonna if I when I was baking this bread I took a tablespoon up of it, put it in a bowl and fed it. It's just sitting in a mason jar in the in the refrigerator. And then when it's time to bake, I take it, put it in there, add some flour and water to it. And it starts to eat the, it's being fed. That is wild. And then you do that two or three times and now it gets really active. It's really hungry. It's really eating it. And it's getting really bubbly. And it becomes this bubbly thing.

And that's your yeast. So the only other thing in the bread is flour. water and salt and then that yeast. So it's kind of, there's like a chemistry, it's kind of an exciting experiment each time. Yeah, it kind of is. It is. And then you manipulate it with the different flowers and the amount of time.

Yeah. And you start to manipulate the flavors and stuff. So when you, one more question about this, when you are making, since you know so much about it, what constitutes a bad sourdough when you taste it? When you taste, sometimes it could be too, sour sometimes.

You know, it could be, it could be, I don't really, you know, like a San Francisco sourdough became famous for that. It was very sour, but I like it a little more earthy. Like this is a country blend, so this has a little bit of rye, a little bit of whole wheat and all purpose.

So it'll have a little bit of a nuttier, earthier taste to it. And I take it back about the Nutella. I think butter and judeau. jam, really good jam with bread is like... That's a good one. It's a really good one. Yeah.

You know, the classic avocado toast. There's a weird one that I really love is I like to take it and put cream cheese and sardines and capers. Ooh. I went from. It's very complicated. I do love capers. I love capers, too. What did you eat when you were a child?

Who was the cook in your house? My mom cooked for us. Was she good cook? Uh-huh. I think so. I don't really, I don't know about you, but I have a very hard time remembering. But my sister, my brother and I were talking about this recently, and there was a lot of casseroles with chicken mushroom soup.

Uh-huh. Where'd you grow up? My dad was in the Army. So we moved around a lot. Right. But a lot of like eating at the mess hall, like the base cafeteria. Right. And, but back then it was, you know, whatever you, whatever was made, you eat.

Like, there was no, there was no debating. I don't want that. And I know, you know, I don't really like this. And it's like, if you don't like it, you just don't eat. Like, if there's liver in front of you, you got to eat the liver. You just had to eat it. No one said, what do you want tonight? No.

It's like a short order cook. I know. No. And, I mean, my daughter is amazing, but this, it's, it is very like, You know, what do we have? You know, a little piece of this, a little piece of that. Like, what do you think about this? And it's like, my God, it became a cheesecake factory overnight.

And then you ask them sometimes, what do you want to eat tonight? And they're like, well, I want this Vietnamese food. And it's like, well, I don't know how to make that. Yeah, so I guess we're ordering in. Oh, okay. Sure, let's go into your account. Yeah, it's so funny. My mother would always point that out when she would come stay with us.

Oh, yeah. We never asked you kids what you wanted. No. And actually because of that standard, that foundation, the kids never even thought about asking for something else. No. Like it never crossed my mind that I would be like, can we have something else? I'd be like, can I be hit? Yeah. You didn't have input in any part of your life. No, no, what you wear, what you wore, what you ate. There was just, you just did as you were told. But there was definitely a set family meal. Yeah, that's good. But it was just like whatever was there, that's what. that's what you ate.

Right. Yeah. Did you guys, were you really, I was really into malls when I was a kid. Oh, yeah. Really,

really loved going to the mall. And that was like a big, like the food court. Oh, food court. All that kind of stuff. What was your favorite stop in the food court?

Um, thank you for asking. Um, I would say, which they do not have on the West Coast, the Great American Cookie Company. Oh, I remember that.

And they had these double-dusy, uh, sandwiches with two cookies and icing in the middle. And it's just like, it's such a joy. Double-doooooooooooo. And it's just so sugary, but it's so great. Yeah.

And I just actually recently did this essay for a friend of mine talking about chain restaurants. Oh, yeah. They get a real bad rap. But I just love them. I love them because like when somebody says, you know, all I see is chains. I'm like, yes. I mean, it's like, you know, quantity of equality. Happy days.

Happy days. You know, those cheddar biscuits and red lobster. and there's this great Pazuki. You ever have the Pizuqui where it's like a hot, it's a chocolate chip cookie and a skillet with ice cream on top?

Oh God. Here's the thing. It's a simple goodness. You know, it's not some, you know, which is still great, but like a little pastry with like a dollop of like flavored foam.

You know, it's like you're getting like a cook, like a hot cookie. We're in America. We're in America. I love the Nathan's, Nathan's hot dogs in the mall. Yeah, that was good.

Those fries, they would come with a little stabby stick. Oh, those are good. And also, you know what you're getting. Oh, yeah. Consistency. Consistency. And I don't know if you did what this happened to when you were on tour, but I would, when I was in Baltimore, I would sometimes just like walk through Trader Joe's or Whole Foods

just for the familiar of it. Like there was a Whole Foods next to me and then there was, like, if there was like a Chili's or something like I would just go there just because I've been traveling so much and I knew what to expect. Right. Yeah, it's like being home. Yeah. That's really, that's pretty smart.

Yeah, I'm always like seeking out these new, like unusual places, but it's disorienting. It's just weird. But there's something about like Trader Joe's or just kind of like walking through and being like, all right, the smell I remember. Right. Like it just feels like familiar. Yeah, yeah. I like the Chick-fil-A. That was a good spot, like early days chick-fil-A.

Oh, so good. It wasn't really. It was waffle fries, man. Yeah, so good. And their sweet tea that they see. said didn't have sugar in it or lemonade but it was the sweetest thing you've ever taste and you're like this has aspartame

or something. It's kind of funny to think of you as an army brat leading in those cafeterias and that it makes sense like when you're in New York and all of a sudden you're in like the grandest cafeterias in the world when you're interning at these places. Oh yeah. I remember we did a party, we catered a party the opening

of the Philharmonic and it was this just grand party. And we set it up and on the desserts in chocolate, they had written a score of the music that they were doing that night. On each of the, like, 500 plates. Oh, my God. Like, one of the lines of the scoring.

And we would pass it, and these just, people would just like, dive in. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, this is like, these people work so hard on this dessert, you know, and they're just like, I pass my best. He's just like, come on, man. But then at the end of the night, we would do the same thing. We would just, like, dive in and just attack it. But it was so beautiful.

It's amazing. Those, the amount, whenever I play Vegas, I'm always astonished. Oh my gosh. At the back, like in the back of the house, seeing the amount of food. So much food. God. It's really good food. Vegas has great food.

Insane. What's the best Cirque de Soleil you think out in Vegas? I've never seen one. Really? Yeah. If you see one, I recommend O. Yeah? The water one.

Yeah. It is really good. Really? Yeah. All right. We also saw Love the Beatles one. good. And then there was one more.

But I really liked O a lot. Yeah. All right. I think I'm going to play there again in like January or February. Okay. And also the Wheel of Fortune slot machine. The best. The best.

I love it. I don't need a blackjack table. I don't want to go figure out craps. No. I just want Wheel of It's happening, Fortune. It's so joyful. It's also very meditative. It is.

And I give myself a cap. I say I'm going to spend $40. Right. And if I lose it, then I'm going to bed. But wherever I'm in that 40, I just keep putting it back in. And it's just, I don't even care about this. It's just the button and watching and then do it again and watching. It's so nice.

I don't know why it's so nice. And then when people say, oh, do it up to $2. I'm like, no, you're taking away my turns, my fun time. I'll do $0.5 for like two hours. So what is the food situation at home now? Now, do you cook at all? We just started doing Hello Fresh. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And we really like it. We don't do all five days. We do like three of them, and it's nice. Like, it's something we do together. Like, each of us will prepare one of them because we only have three people in our family. Right. Oh, that's good. Each person prepares it, and it's just a nice time that we can try something new.

Right. It's really good. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Nice. Well, I hope you enjoy the bread. Thank you very much, man. Let me know if you enjoy it.

Because I'm going to bring you some more. You actually don't have to. I know, but I'm going to. What is this? That's my little logo. It's a face. Did you notice my logo on your basket? No, I don't remember.

Well, it's really pretty. It's upside down. Oh. I thought it looked like a fish. No, it's a face. I was thinking of like the fish and load. You know, I'm starting to think that maybe no one sees it. Oh, it's a face.

Oh, I do see the face. Yeah. Oh, nice. It's like winking. Yeah. Is it winking? He's a little sleepy? No.

I saw that as like, I thought that was a fish with two loaves, like the Bible story. Oh, that's funny. Well, thank you so much for doing this. This is really great. I mean, this is why I do the podcast. I sit with people that I can get to spend some time with them. It's really nice. So fun.

Thanks for asking me. Do you want a piece of cheese? It's smoked guda. Smoked Gouda. Yeah. I just had a white, a goat cheese goout from Trader Joe's. Oh, really? You really love the Trader Joe's?

I love Trader Joe's. Do you get any of the prepared sandwiches at Trader Joe's? Like the Rapps or any of that? No. No. That's beyond my, that's beyond me. I like, I like they have these little dark chocolate mints with honey in them. And they have those great sausages like chicken, chicken apple sausage and all this kind of stuff.

Ooh, nice. This is a salami with truffle. Oh, really? Where did you get that? There's an Italian market in Burbank. Don't care. It's not hopefully not fair it is. Oh, it's an Italian market in Burbank? There's no Hawaiian tiki signs around it. Not familiar.

Don't care. It's pretty good, though, right? Really? Yeah. I can totally taste the truffle. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. It's an Italian market in Burbank. Who else is going to be on this podcast with you?

We've had a lot of great people. no one else today. Do you sometimes do two in a day? Yeah. Is that kind of exhausting? Sometimes. You know, I was actually not, like, I really look forward to them. Like, I look forward to, like, spending time with people, and it's, I really, you know,

and I do that radio show with Fortune, and that's two hours in the morning. And then Buzz over here when I have people that I can do it with. Do you know what, like, I'm always talking. I love that you got to that space because as a guest, you kind of come in, like, almost in a performance, a little bit of a performance mindset. Sure. Where it's like, you know, you want to give a good episode for you. And it's just this kind of like what story's going to tell. But being on the other side, I think you can kind of get to a relaxed place where you really do want to just hang out.

Yeah. And that's, I bet, a really nice space to be in. Yeah. It's a, it's, you know, you, I'm conscious of that too. It's like, you want it to be fun and you want it to keep moving and, and, but it's so interesting because, like, if I, we run into each other at a party or whatever, we'll just, you know, have fun and talk about whatever. But even people I've known for years, you never sit and say, so how did you feel when you're trying to develop a character? Like, you never get to do that. Right.

So in this space, you do. Right. So it's, uh, without it being. like really super performative it's like it's still interesting yeah and i love i love going deep yeah i so i would think if i did i would have to really watch because there's a part of me that wants to like get to trauma and it's like where is this coming from yeah and because you know we're comic actors right and it's like man where is but but then you have to watch boundaries like i don't want to ask something that somebody doesn't want to talk about yeah and i always

I don't know if you have this moment where with interviewers, I have it a lot with fans that shows. Like, someone will ask me a question and I'll start going, talking about it. And then I'll go like a little further than they expect, you know, like, I'll be like, yeah, but I was just feeling like a little, I don't know, it was just kind of disconnected. And I was just kind of dream. And they kind of look at you like, okay, that was fun. And they walk away. It's like, we know, we don't, we don't come to you for that. We come to you for the funny stuff.

and then you start talking about something deeper. I don't know. But in this space, in this space, I feel like you can, you can go a little deeper if you, if it leads that way. Yeah. And which is, I think, needed. Completely. I think it's needed this arena and it's also needed for our community

outside of this arena where it's just like, I think more people, because I just feel like, especially after the pandemic and life, like, thank you for having me. You're the best. I appreciate it. it. When I bring bread, do you think he'll give me a different poll? One that is not painted on, yes. Thank you. I apologize about that.

It's all right. I'm now second-guessing my comment that I made. We got it, Aaron. That's it, everybody. How great was Tony? I told you he was going to be great. Go back. You know what? Just go to the beginning and listen to it again. I know. It was that enjoyable. Thank you so much, Tony Hale. You're the best. Thank all of you for listening and thanks our good friends at Lathwaite's. We'll see you next time.