Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Episode 79 - Pati Jinich

Episode Date: November 9, 2021

Pati Jinich shares Treasures of the Mexican Table and helps Tom add some flavor to his Thanksgiving.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, it's our goal Hey It's time for Breaking Bread with Papa Hey Don't you know Hey It's also a show Hey

Hey Everybody Welcome to another edition of Breaking Bread with Tom Papa I am Tom Papa Thank you so much for joining us At the table Once again

We've got a great show for you today We have a real life chef and food personality Patty Hinnish She is a host of a show on PBS called La Frontera, which is an amazing show all about the border between Mexico and the United States. She has a new book called The Treasures of the Mexican Table that is amazing. And she really, I just, she's such a great personality to begin with. I was so excited to talk with her.

And she just has such a great way of breaking down the two cultures because she grew up in both. and she takes all of the preconceptions that we have on both sides about each other, breaks them all down using food as the bridge, and you're really going to love this one. And she also helps me out with Thanksgiving, which is a big help. We would like to thank the people at MoinkBox. Moinkbox, great service. They deliver grass-fed and grass-finished beef and lamb,

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It's almost like they made a product with me in mind. Thank you so much for being here. Like I said, we have a great interview with Patty Hanich. She's such a, such a talent. And she really is one of the, she's the, She's the example of why I love doing this show. Just using food as a bridge and a way to open up minds and open up cultures. And she's just a delight. You're really going to love it. I'll give you a little spoiler. In the middle of, at a certain point, she helps me out with a

side dish for my Thanksgiving table. Because growing up in, or living in Southern California, it's hard to think of just doing Thanksgiving completely with your East Coast recipes and East Coast traditions. I mean, look, I'm not going to throw those away, but you should have, I feel like I always should have, some kind of Mexican Southern California flare, something at the table that calls out why we're grateful and thankful for being in this part of the country. And she helps me with it. And that got me, of course, excited because we're only a, couple of weeks away, three weeks away from Thanksgiving. And I did some prep. And I think this is a good

time for you to do some prep as well. Go into the pantry. I'll just tell you what I did. And this is me just being maybe a little insane, but I get very excited about this meal. First off, there might be a turkey shortage, supply chain shortage. So heads up on that. I've already ordered my turkey because I have a big crowd coming this year. So I needed a, a big-ass turkey and I've already ordered it and locked it in because I started to panic what happens if you get to the point where there's no turkey. And I actually lost my mind because I looked it up on whole foods and they were just showing pictures of turkey breast in a package. I was like, oh no, the end of the world is here. We're really down to just sliced meat at this point.

It was just me being a moron. I found the turkey. They're out there. It's no reason to panic. But this is time to kind of start dialing it in. Take all of your knives and either sharpen them yourself if you have a good way of doing that or wrap them up and bring them to your local knife sharpener. There is a great guy by me. He just lives in his house and likes sharpening knives. And you wrap your things up in a towel and you bring them over and put them in a bucket over his fence

and you come back later on and you have all your knives sharpened. It's not a joke. you don't do it at all during the year, this is the time to do it. Gather up the knives that you're going to use, get them all sharp, and look for your roasting pan. If you're going to put your giant turkey in that one thing, that roasting pan that you only use on Thanksgiving, it's time to take stock of all of that stuff. Where's the roasting pan?

Where is the gravy boat? Who's making gravy in the middle of a Wednesday in July? Nobody. Who's sitting poolside with some gravy boats next to them at the lounge? chair. Nobody. So where is it? You think you know, you probably don't. Go out and find your roasting pan, find your gravy boats, sharpen your knives, and start taking stock. There's also things that you probably overbought last year that are still good that are in the pantry or in your garage or wherever you keep all of your stuff, things like pumpkins, pumpkin spice, cans of evaporated milk,

canned goods that maybe you don't need to buy this year because you've already bought them twice every Thanksgiving since you started cooking. And just it's a good way to like clean out everything you'll find. I found some old popcorn bags that had like three kernels left that my daughter just put back into the pantry. I found I think 25 boxes of Baker's chocolate that everybody in this house who bakes, buys every time they go to the store and then just toss them and then I organize them and found, it's just a good way to see what's going on in there. And guess, get a little prepped and start to get a feel for what you're going to need. If you have the people in your life that can't eat certain things, it's a good time to

start thinking about that and how you're going to make those good people happy. Take a look at your wine. Take a look at what kind of wine you're going to be serving. I just took a whole thing through the liquor cabinet and dumped out old rums. I found disgusting like bottoms of scotch. And I realized, oh, I don't have to have 700 bottles here. Half of this can be thrown away and replaced with some decent wine for when everybody comes over. Just take inventory at this point and you will be very happy.

And it's your first step. It's like, all right, you know, it's not cold here in Southern California. But I'm traveling up to Vermont this weekend for shows and Boston at the Beverly Center at the Cabot Theater in Beverly, Massachusetts. And it's going to feel like it's Thanksgiving over there. It doesn't feel like it here until nighttime, but it does feel as soon as you just start looking in the kitchen and start to. And if you're going to visit somebody else, why didn't you get your lazy ass up and try and make something? Maybe make the dish the patty gives me in this thing. And I also think you should go get her book.

It's called The Treasures of the Mexican Table. Mexico is a real treasure, and there's a lot to it. And we're told not to go, that we're going to be kidnapped, that going across the border is going to be something that you have to be a superhero to do. She really is, her PBS show is great, called La Frontera. Just spend some time with that. And I say to her in the interview that I learned more watching her show than I have watching news over the last five years. Just a real understanding of the real story of real people on the ground.

And Mexico's not that far away. And it's so many, calling the book treasures is really appropriate because there's so much to it. There's so much to the culture. She's still learning it. So, of course, a kid from New Jersey is still learning it. Check it out. listen to this interview and you will open your mind and enjoy patty hinnish it's such a treat to meet you i wasn't um i wasn't really caught up on your show until i went back on the road and started

traveling and whenever i'm traveling i'm i go to pv s and i got to see your show and i was sucked in immediately. It's, it's no, there's no, there's no, there's no, um, surprise of why it's so successful. Oh, thank you so much. It makes me happy that you watch it and mostly that you like it. Yeah, I really do. And, and, and you know, it's, it's, what's interesting about it is you come from both cultures, but you seem in the show to be learning almost as much as we are. It's why I love why I do so much, Tom, because in the beginning, when I first launched Paris Mexican table, I really wanted to share the Mexico that I missed the Mexico that I know, the Mexico that I was homesick for when I moved to the U.S. And the Mexico that I wanted people to get to know and I felt that they didn't know. but as the years went by and you know I did Mexico City and I did Puebla and I did Waxaca,

which I was very familiar with. Then, and it was like sharing, you know, with the audience, look, this is who we are, this is what I know, this is what I miss. But then it was like, wait, this is the Mexico that I don't know. This is a Mexico that I'm getting to know. And it was really fascinating because I really starting to get to know my whole. home country much deeper. Once I moved to the U.S., and I was an immigrant here, and I had the veil of nostalgia and romanticism, but mostly I started meeting Mexicans from other parts of

Mexico that I've never been to or never even thought to go to because the Mexican migrant community here in the U.S. is so diverse. And I started running, you know, in the same city in the U.S., you can run into Mexicans from 10 different states. Right. And so you're hearing different accents and you're learning about the 10 different ways in which they cook rice. And so it was like, wait, I've never been to Sakatecas. I've never been to Campeche.

And so my hunger to get to know the Mexico that I didn't know and that I felt removed from because I was already here really. really made me take a spin with a show and say, okay, we're venturing together. Right. To get to know my home country. And it's changed the way I view Mexico and the world. And it's changed the relationship that I have with my audience,

which is my community and like my extended family. Because now I feel like we really have a true close connection in that. we're exploring and learning together and they get as surprised as I do. How did it change your perception of the country? Well, it really humbled me, Tom. It just made me realize how little I knew. I come from an academic background. I wanted to be an academic.

I came out of college with a political science. and then I did a master's in Latin American Studies, and then I worked in a think tank. And I really, I'm a researcher at heart. I wanted to be an academic and write research policy papers. Right. And I thought I knew a lot about Mexico. It took me three years to do my dissertation, which was all about federalism in Mexico. So it was a deep dive into the regional and state.

differences, you know, the picture of Mexico. So I thought I knew a lot, you know. And then you realize the more that you travel and you meet people that reading is not the same as being there. And research is not the same as being there. So it really, it just changed my perspective. And it made me realize that no matter how many times I go to Mexico City, I will continue to learn more and more. more because there's the classics that continue to be passed on. But then there's the new things that are popping up. So it's like, you know, I could have another 100 years of life and not be, not satiate my thirst to learn more. And that appetite has expanded as the years have gone by because it's like I did know enough.

I don't know enough about Mexico. I want to learn more. But then I've been in the U.S. over 20 years. Right. My three boys were born here. As the years have gone by, I've strengthened my roots to my home country, but I've grown really deep roots to these countries. Right, right.

And now I want to know all about the evolution of Mexican food here in the U.S. and the communities and immigrants and, you know, not only Mexicans, but Latinos. And it's just like now my hunger goes like south of the border, north of the border and right at the border, which was one of the biggest reasons why I really was obsessed with embarking on this new project called La Frontera. Yeah, it's amazing. It really, first of all, it's amazing that you're definitely,

it makes perfect sense. you're a researcher at heart because you are, I mean, in these short, in these short conversations and these short things that you're showing us, I've learned more from your show than anything that I've understood about the border, just speaking, I want to get back to the food, but talking about just about Frontera, it's, I've learned more from that show than I have any of the news that I've been digesting for my adult life. I mean, it really, it showed me what what a small understanding we really, really have, unless you live along the border.

Yeah, that was our main goal. We really, when we started researching and planning and visiting and meeting people from the border, like the goal was really really to get a slice of life, like a slice of the pie, you know, you can't, of course, share everything or learn or experience everything, but we wanted one slice that showed what life at the border is like without an agenda, like without saying, oh, this is good or this is bad or this is right or this is wrong, because you realize when you get to the border, the labels and the categories as we know them to be, get really blurry.

And they're not, they don't apply there. Yeah, there was, there was that rancher and his wife. And they said they didn't even grow up with the concept of a border. Exactly. Exactly. And you're at the border and you have, you know, Tano with his wife. And she's like the only white American, you know, like the two, three percent of, of Delaredos. And in the majority are Hispanics.

And so it's like many things get topsy-turvy, you know, it turns upside down. And then you realize that it's not good or bad. It's just ease, you know. And people really learn to negotiate with their, within, with their identities, with their Mexicans, with their Americanness, with the English, with the Spanish, with the values and laws and customs. of both countries.

They can turn the switches as they go from one side to the other, but then it's not only American and Mexican. It's the border is really a magnet for all nationalities, all cultures, all religions.

So there are Syrian, Lebanese, there's Haitians, there's Cubans, there's Japanese, there's Jews, there's Catholic, there's Muslim.

I mean, and the way that cultures and identities converge at the border is very freeing. It's very liberating. You don't have to be explaining yourself all the time because everybody there has a combination of one thing or another. I felt so at home there. Yeah.

Oh, I could imagine. After you've grown up on both sides and being a part of both worlds, it has to. I mean, you even say that in your intro. it has to be kind of comforting like, oh, there's, this is how, and it makes perfect sense. I mean, it's such a strange concept when you come out on the map and you see that someone put a line there. And how do you expect that to be different from the people all the way up here to Los Angeles down, down to Mexico City? It's not natural.

And I have to tell you, there are really. common denominators, I would say that I found. And of course, I have to learn a lot more. And I can't wait to go back and do the other side of the border. Because now we did from El Paso to Brownsville. And I really want to go back and do from El Paso to Tijuana, you know? Right. But it's just you realize that you can go back a thousand.

times and you'll continue learning, but also that the commonalities are people are very open, adaptable, generous, accessible. It's very ironic. I don't know that the word is sarcastic, because just as much as the region and the borderlands and the people there are misjudged and labeled so narrowly, when you're there, people are so like forgiving and accessible and adaptable and they don't judge one side to the other. And all from the outside in. But people there are warm. And they, like, they let us into everyone's home.

And I really wanted to just say, hey, it's an honor for me to be here. here's a microphone. Share your story. We don't want to edit in which one way or another. We want to hear what you have to say. And we want to live the life at the border if only for a few days. We want to experience it so we can share. And it was like mind boggling how little we know.

Not only the U.S. Mexicans too. Mexican really misjudged the borderlands. Right. It's like very removed. We feel Mexico. I come from Mexico City. Uh-huh.

We feel like northern Mexico is not even Mexico anymore. It's like the other frontier is like, is that the U.S.? No, is that Mexico? No. It's so misunderstood and it's so rich. People think about just that being like a desert or like the fence. But there's jungles, there's SpaceX, there's rivers, there's lakes where people swim and fish. It's big band is that Marfa's around there. It's just really remarkable. It really is

remarkable. I mean, we have it even here in the States. If you watch the news like when there was all the unrest and it was like you couldn't go to Portland. You couldn't go to Portland. Don't go to Portland. It's on fire. It's it's a hellscape. Don't even try it. And I had a show up there. And my daughter wanted to come. And I said, it was in the middle of all of it. I said, let's Let's just see what the truth is. We got there. We were eating tacos at a truck. There was sunshine, people walking around.

There was a couple blocks of trouble. And the rest of the city was just pleasant and joyful. And I find that so many times when you just show up. I think so too. You are so right. For example, we went to film to the border. it was the end of May, early June. And we kept pushing the trip because of the pandemic.

You know, we really wanted to go when the entire team was going to be able to be vaccinated. And when we knew that there was a certain degree of vaccination at the border. And where we could come with a production bubble where we could be testing ourselves and the people that we were meeting a day ahead and a day ahead. So to protect the people that we were going into their homes to and to protect the team. And so we kept on pushing it. And we ended up going in the middle of June. And coming from Washington, B.C., you heard all these things about the border. You know, oh, dangerous.

Oh, COVID there is insane. Oh, the pandemic in El Paso Juarez is ridiculous. And so people put all these fears in you. And I've lived with that all the time because coming from Mexico City, I mean, every time I come up with a noon season, if it's Mexico City or whatever it will be, I get emails from people asking me, is it dangerous to go to Mexico? Is it dangerous to go? I want to see Naloa even. And I'm like, I go anywhere. Because it's like, if you go to Detroit, people tell you don't go to Detroit, you know.

So to Pongo to a certain area in Detroit at 3 a.m. you go to a certain area of Mexico City at 3 a.m. But you won't do that in New York City either. Right, anywhere. We got to the border and we realized once you jump in that water that is getting these labeling, criticism is judging, once you get in that pool and you're swimming in it, you swim. Yeah, right, exactly. And it's the, it is a, it's a decades long.

are probably centuries long misconceptions of different cultures. I mean, my wife and I, honeymoon in north of Puerto Vallerte was like, it was this hotelito disconacito. It was like this. Oh, I love that play. It was great. I don't think, yeah, I don't think it's there anymore, unfortunately.

I think I don't think it's gone. But it was beautiful, this eco resort. And we just got in a car and we just drove through, who knows what. And it's so funny that and we have this wonderful time and we're also this other spot. And in the time since then, it's just 20 years, my perception has changed. And I'm like, could we do that now? Like, could we get in the car and do that? Or are people going to kidnap us?

Or is it, can I go in? We love Mexico so much. And we don't go a lot of times. And if we do go, it's you land in the airport, you get in a black car and they get you to the resort. And then you're surrounded by white people and everybody calms down. And it's, it's really unfortunate because it's so rich. There's so much there. And really, like, you can go to most places. It's just a matter of getting the information, you know? Right, right. Yeah. But I think the same happens in so many places in the world, right? Everywhere. Everywhere. So what was, what

was your, why did you frame it in food? Why were you taking us all on this journey from the very beginning with, with the food of the culture? This is a really good question. I've learned that food and the kitchen and, you know, food in the kitchen are the most noble ways to communicate and to get to know people and to break down barriers or to remember. move bails. And I have found that both going inside and outside. Like I, you know, as a Mexican from Mexico City living here in the U.S. with Mexican American kids coming from a Jewish family who they were refugees to Mexico and, you know, trying to make sense of all of my identities. It wasn't until I moved into the kitchen space that I was able to really free myself

of preconceptions and do the research about, you know, the different immigration waves to Mexico and the US. And I find that one can understand things better when they put a plate of food in front of you because immediately we're just, we're animals. We need to be fed, we get hungry, we need to eat. And also, food is very,

primal in that when you see food, you connect to memories of someone fed you, you were nurtured at some time. You know, if you serve me, you can be from one political side and I can be from another. But if you invite me to your home and your nana is there and you share a bowl of her soup, I'm melting already. I'm much more willing to listen. Yeah. is that confide and connected to the food.

So it's just a way where we connect our human fibers, no matter what opinions, what judgments we have. And it's a way to really open up and have just like art or music or poetry. I find that food, it's this little door that with the right key, it unlocks a new path of communication. Right, right. So I think it's very wise to try to use it and to connect us and to build more bridges. And I don't think there's a better way to deal with border themes, you know, and in other, you know, themes that are very hot right now around the world.

I think that with food, you just open a door to better conversation and understanding. and you are willing to listen to people who or opinions that you would immediately get shut off or turned off. Right. Because, oh, those tacos look yummy. Right. You know? Yeah. So I love doing it through food.

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P-A-P-A. It's so funny how you could be so similar and so different because my background is Italian. So it's all of the Italian stuff in my pantry. Everything is all the ingredients for, you know, Italian meals that I learned from from my family and stuff. And then when I watch you talk about food and talk to people in your, in your show,

it's the common denominator is like you said, we were all fed like when everybody starts talking about when their mom did something or when their father used to make this thing or their grandfather used to make this thing, then it could be any culture. That's where it doesn't matter if you're Italian or Mexican. It's exactly exactly the same. We all want to feed the people we love. We all need to take care of someone. And in cooking and eating and feeding is a primal way. It's like there's, I really have a hard time believing that someone doesn't connect through food. I have yet to meet someone who hates food, you know.

I know, you know, I do know some people that see food more as fuel. Right. Yeah. But regardless, they are going to have one or another. Right. That they can resist. Yeah. Yeah.

You can break them down. You can break them down. And you're more, and I am more willing to have conversations with people that I would think I disagree with, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So let me talk you about a new cookbook that's going to be coming out soon. Treasures of the Mexican table.

Very, ah, there it is, yes. I have the advanced copy. I was just, just last night, I was up the phone with Rocks Martin. Rocks Martin has been my editor for my three cookbooks. I have Paris Mexican table that came out in 2013.

Right. And I had Mexican today. in 2016. And we were going to have these one, treasures of the Mexican table, come out in 2019. But then I kept on doing more research and more research and more research.

You can't stop. And I was like, we need more recipes and we need another chapter. And until they said, enough, let's stop. And I was supposed to deliver 150 recipes and I delivered 220 thinking,

oh, they're going to be so thrilled. It's more bang for their books. and they were like, no, Patti, we have a page count, you know. That's great. I'm in love with his book. It's so good. Now, let me ask you this and be honest with me. If you grew up as an Italian kid in New Jersey and you, it's all of your food is from that.

And then you come to Los Angeles at a certain point and you start exploring what real Mexican food is other than the stuff we used to get in New Jersey. because now you're in Southern California and you're seeing and going down to San Diego and going traveling to Texas. Is there any part of me that could be a good cook of Mexican food or am I going to be missing some of the DNA? Okay. I am here. Oh, boy. Okay. So pasta seca or video seco is the way that Mexicans, one of our favorite ways of eating pasta.

So Mexican food is such a mother cuisine, you know, just like Italian food or Chinese food or French food, you have been putting my glasses on. That we, you know, we take ingredients. Historically, we've taken ingredients that have come through different immigrant waves. And we've adapted them into Mexican cooking and give them our stamp. So the way, the typical way that Mexicans eat pasta, which this is something that, that every Mexican has eaten at home. What's the name of it again? It's called Fideo Seco or Pasta Seca.

It's called dried pasta. And that is because we take pasta typically like angel hair or vermicelli, something very thin. And we break it apart and we cook it with a little bit of oil and we toast it. Like as if it were risotto or Fidewa. And we toasted until it browns and it becomes a little bit nutty and it already changed its taste. And then we never boil it in water. After we fry it a little, but with a little bit of oil, we add typically a tomato sauce.

And I know you're Italian, but you do know that tomatoes come from Mexico. So there's one place where we can say. Really? They come from Mexico? I had no idea I know you guys have like taking them to a different level but we love our tomatoes too.

So we make a tomato sauce where we puree fresh, super ripe tomatoes with the skin and the seeds and everything. We add a little onion, a little garlic and typically one chili or another. It can be

chipotle in adobe sauce or ancho chili or some spices or even or a base and then you add that thick tomato sauce to the brown pasta and you let it cook in that generous amount of tomato sauce until the pasta finishes cooking in that sauce until the sauce thickens, seasons, sticky, chunky. It almost dries with the pasta.

And of course we do not do our pasta al dente. We kill it. You know? As mushy as you can get. As mushy as you can get. And it's this crazy delicious mess. And then we dress it with Mexican crema, you know, which is tangy, salty. Some queso fresco, which is again also like barnyardy almost.

Right. Yeah. And then you add slices of ripe avocado. And as an Italian, I think you would adore that. And then, you know, you have your meatballs. We have our elbows. And there's just so many foods that we, when people ask me, what is the food that after Mexican, I love eating the most. And I say these not only for me, but for my entire family, when we're

not eating Mexican, de bataya, like the bataya is like something that you take to the battle, something that you know is going to help you fight whatever you. need to fight or whatever you need to come. But when we're not making Mexican, we're making Italian. My kids love pasta, love Italian meatballs, love lasagna, love risotto. And it's so very similar to the way we eat. It's just not fussy or it's just like you're cooking a big pot and you bring that to the table and everything to share. And I think there's a big connection. Yeah.

No, I love that not being so precise. Not being so, you know, like there's certain, like French cuisine, it's like it's very, you've got to, you've got to kind of nail it. But you can kind of, yeah, Mexican food, very much so, it's similar to Italian. But there seems to be a lot of differences in Mexican, in Mexican food that I don't, that I still don't understand, that I still, like the subtleties. someone that grew up would know a little bit more about, you know, the differences and what to look for. Yeah. And all you need to do to get more acquainted is just cook a little more with more ingredients.

Like when I first moved to the U.S., you could only find fresh jalapenos, you know, as far as cheese is over 20 years ago. And I was living in Dallas, Texas. Right. Now you can find almost every fresh chili and so many of the dried chilis. There's really, if you want to make anything Mexican, you really can find most of the ingredients and the recipes. And the great thing about Mexican food is that it is so forgiving. If you make one thing or another and it really doesn't work out exactly, just tuck it into a taco. You know?

Right. And all is good and all is good. And there are so many regional differences. You know, you have the Tica-Tecan book. And this book, what I love is that, you know, I have, you know, I have a map of Mexico here. Yeah. It's 150 classic recipes that come from all over the country that have stood the test of time, that are heirlooms that have passed from generations.

two generations. And some are older classics, some are newer classics, but are dishes that are easy, accessible, repurposable, because that's one really characteristic of Mexican food. You make chicken tinga one day, you eat it with rice. Two days later, you talk it into a tort or a cassadilla, you know? Right. But all of these come from different regions of Mexico, and I agree that it is so complex and so diverse and so rich pretty much like Italian food.

Yeah. That you could do one book with 500 recipes from just one region. Right. No, absolutely. The approach I took was, you know, let me find 150 recipes that not many people know that will enrich anyone's table on a Tuesday night. Right. You know?

Yeah. What do you do for Thanksgiving? Oh, okay. So I have here. So we celebrate Thanksgiving with our same friends. Since we moved to Washington, D.C. We have some dear friends from Mexico City who moved to New York City. Right. Who come to visit here to Thanksgiving with their daughters and they're the same age as our sons. And then we have a couple of friends and their families who are from Washington, D.C., who also. spend Thanksgiving with us every year. Right. And one family is Colombian-American. The other family is American-American. And in the beginning, when we started celebrating with them, like, they used to make

everything and they used to let me bring, you know, like, oh, a salsa or a dessert. And I always wanted to make the turkey. Yeah. Oh, no, don't mess with our turkey. Finally, you know, in Mexico, of course, we don't. have Thanksgiving. But we eat turkey for Christmas and for New Year's. So in this book, I have one of my favorite turkeys, which has, you know, it's very traditional to have an adobe rubbed turkey. In my past cookbook, I had a Yucatecan style turkey with a chutea that is the one that

I've been bringing every year. Right. But this year I'm bringing this one. It's an adobe coated turkey and this adobo, which is made with candied pineapple. So you puree pineapple and you cook that with pilonceo or dark brown sugar. And once it starts turning into caramel, you add an adobe. So, I mean, it's so. And then rub that on the turkey before? So I marinate the turkey for a few days. Okay.

In that adobe. It's a wet, like. a thick wet brine right yeah it's like a thick wet marinade okay and then marinated in that

and then I make a stuffing which is also in this new book which is nice it has cashews chorizo heart fruit and

and I'm an inside stuffer I know some people are really against stuffing turkey I have to confess I prefer eating the stuffing of the turkey.

I do too. I do too. Only if the stuffing is cooked inside of the turkey because then it cooks with the juices of the end of the broth of the adobe. So I do that turkey. I'm going to do this turkey for the first time. Oh, that's great. So we just do Thanksgiving with our friends and everybody brings something. And I think that Thanksgiving is really the perfect occasion for for families like ours who came from somewhere else who are now part of this country.

Because there's traditions that must continue. But within those traditions, there's an opening for, yeah, we want cranberry sauce, but you can bring your spin on yours. Right. Exactly. That's why I was asking because living in Southern California, there was to make it just purely the norm. of the United States, that version of Thanksgiving, it didn't seem right. Like, it seemed like there's some basics from my childhood, of course, I'd hold on to. But it was like, what other things can I add to it? And I started looking into it over the last couple of years. And there's so many twists on,

I mean, just this cranberry sauce with with jalapenos and ginger. And it was just like, there's just so many variations of it that I feel like that should be on the table if you're standing if you're in Southern California with the sun out. I know. You know, this turkey, I tested. I really wanted to give the best version of an adobe turkey in this cookbook. And I tested it with so many adobos because there are like the basics of adobos. But I really wanted to make a tropical Veracruz style of the way.

I tested so much that I tested even with, you know, because there's so many times that you can make turkey when it's February. You know. So I started. testing with chicken and do you who's here with me and really started liking the the double rub chicken stuffed in the style of Thanksgiving he started requesting it but that's juju oh that's really smart oh man this is so good well your I love that your book is called treasures because that's what really because that's what just seeing some of the photography it really It does seem like it's treasures.

I was going to tell you another thing for Thanksgiving that I'm planning to make these here, and I'm looking for the here, 336. These is so just like you have, you know, more contemporary classics. This was fascinating to me when I was researching and traveling for these book. There are pre-Hispanic dishes that come from the times, like before. the Spanish arrived to Mexico. Right. That have been made.

There's this dish that's made with green beans, which I think is one of my favorite dishes in the entire book. Really? It's called Chulibul and it's green beans. Oh boy. That are cooked in a corn puree. Like you just take fresh corn or thought corn from frozen and you puree the corn just with fresh apace.

which you can get in California. Right. For many places. So you can change for cilantro. And, yeah. No. No. No.

Do you come say hi? You can only interrupt if you come say hi to Tom. Yeah. Hi. Nice to see you. Do you tell Tom if you like my green beans. I love your green beans. I'm going to make these because green beans are always part of our Thanksgiving.

And this would be a good place to twist it up. Tom has a really cool podcast. With really cool guests. So it's the green beans you cook in these corn puree sauce just until they're crunchy. And then you top them with these chunky cooked tomato sauce. That's not spicy. It's just some potatoes. And then you top that with toasted pumpkin seeds.

Oh, the flavor of this dish is insane. It's like a little celebrity, a little sweet, a little acid. the tomatoes, then naughty from the pumpkin seeds. And it's like if somebody had shown you these dish, you would think, oh, some Mexican modern chef came up with a vegan dish, but this is pre-Hispanic from Campeche, from the Yvesan Peninsula. This is a dish that has been made for not hundreds, thousands of years. And they used to make it in pots where they would add the ingredients, you know, tomato and beans or squash and the pumpkin seeds.

And they would hit a rock until it was smoldering hot and then they would throw it into the pot. And that's how the ingredients would cook. And of course, I've adapted that recipe so that you can make it in a Sotein. You don't need a rock. A fascinating thing that in the classics of Mexican cooking, you find dishes like these that are pre-Hispanic. Amazing.

You find more less in Chile and Nogada that come from the colonial time. which are very baroque. And then you find dishes that are from like the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s, you know? Right, right. Amazing. So really amazing. Oh, that's amazing. All right.

If I'm going to travel to Mexico just as a food vacation, where would be the next spot to go? What would be where am I landing? No doubt in my mind. You have to go to Mexico. Okay. Yeah. It's Mexico City, many people confuse Mexico City as a stopover or layover. You know, Mexico City because it has a main airport and then you go to the beach or then

you go to, you know, any other. Yeah, yeah. Mexico City is, I think, I mean, of course, I have not traveled the entire world, but I've traveled a lot, you know, for work and research, et cetera. And I think Mexico City is. is in my mind the most fascinating city I've ever been to

it has a big old and new it has a really rich fabric of culture and art and history and fashion and food you get like the super modern Enrique Olvera who is an icon of Mexican cooking and has amazing restaurants there

and they're modern and almost molecular you know and then you have the taquerias and the street food stands. And you also have a representation of the entire republic because Mexico City is such an important center for the country that it really attracts people from all over the country. So they open up, you know, Puebla restaurants, Yucatecan restaurants, Northenio restaurants, seafood restaurants.

You find everything there. Like if you can only go to one place. Yeah, exactly. Mexico City, no doubt in my mind. All right. do it for sure. Yeah. Before I let you go, after doing Frinteris and doing, and are you hopeful for the future for that area?

Or are you, did you come away more concerned? No, I came away so inspired and so hopeful. People there just are resilient and creative. and make it work against all odds. And if they can, so can we. And rather than thinking, oh, how can we fix the border problem? It's like, let's go to the borderlands and meet the communities there and see how they make it work. Right.

They fly on each other. There's so much trade and business. And it's not only like, oh, yay, we like each other's culture. It's like, there's a lot happening that is enriching both countries. So I'm very hopeful. We just have to have more microphones, you know, there so that we can hear more of those stories. Well, you're doing a great job. I mean, honestly, as a grown person to learn so much just from watching your show, more than all of my education, it really is a, I hope you continue making all of them.

They're really so great. And thank you for the green beans. You've just made my Thanksgiving. That's amazing Thank you so much All right We'll see you next time Make sure you come back on you

It seems like you have enough recipes For another cookbook probably within a couple weeks Anytime I will come back anytime All right take care Thank you Well that's it for Patty I told you she was special

Don't you want to just go and watch her shows And read her books And just spend more time with her I'm so grateful that she came on. Patty Hinesh, her show on PBS is La Frontera, and her book is The Treasors of Mexico. Look it up wherever books are sold. Go to tompapa.com. Look up my tour dates.

I'm running all over the place. I'm going up to Vermont this weekend, and I'm also going to Massachusetts. That might be sold at that. I'm going to Port Washington and Long Island. We've got Tarrytown, New York. That's going to be a big show. we've got Tyler, Texas. We've got a whole bunch of shows coming up.

Go to tompapa.com and look it all up. Thank you so much. Take my advice on Thanksgiving. It's a fun thing to do. Don't decorate for Christmas yet. Don't get crazy. See you next time.