Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - Zach Zucker: Turning Stamptown into a Netflix Special

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

Tom sits down with Zach Zucker for a freewheeling conversation about cheating on the ACT, finding his artistic home in French clown school and bringing his creative family to Netflix with Stamptown. Zach also explains the Iams voiceovers keeping the operation alive and the full-circle moment that took him back to Étampes. Zach's special Stamptown is out now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I famously got a letter of intent to play baseball at Harvard, and that was because I cheated on my ACTs. My mom doesn't believe me, but girly, it's me. I spent my whole life learning how to read a Scantron, and how can you cheat on an ACT? You don't think I didn't figure out how these Scantrons work? What do you mean? You have, so by the different Scantrons, there was different, like, if it was the, every five, it would change color, like, green, white, green, white, and then it would have the lines on every 10, so I would know where I was.

And I would know that, like, where the name starts was number 12, where the surname starts, was 17, so I had my little markers so I could bust them up and kind of take these little glances, and I had a really good eyesight. I'm a hustler, baby. You know, work smarter, not harder. It's breaking bread. Yeah, no, you're very talented. We're lucky to have you. Save it for when the microphone's on, you know? It is on. Oh, wow. Wow. That was crazy and unprompted. Yeah, that's how we do intros around here. No, really, thank you for being here. It's really, really cool. Oh, my God. Would you have you ever done a full podcast where it's like, no, no, no, no, truly Thank you.

Thank you for having me. No, thank you. Come on, man. There was someone recently who I was saying a bunch of things to, and they weren't giving it back. And I was like, I don't think they know who I am. I'm excited to hopefully have more of those moments. I think I only have those in like really small, like, meaningless environments. It's like at this clown seminar right now, don't you fucking know how much money I have.

I've paid for taking clown class in my life. Are you big in clown community? It depends. Because there's not that many that break through. That's true. Like mainstreamish. I agree. Yeah, you know, I think whether or not people like us, they're aware of us.

Right. And I think is the most diplomatic way to say it. Yeah. And I hope to be like, you know, like a positive, you know, influence or like a beacon for it or a flag bear. Yeah. It's just whether people rock with it. No, because there's definitely, I was thinking about it, there's like the magician thing is similar.

And, you know, very tight community, all successful, doing stuff. But like Justin Wilman, who's broken through. Of course, magic for humans. Yeah, and, you know, David Blaine and it's happened before. But there's, for everyone that breaks through, there's just

that whole community that never really gets that light shine on them. And there's also, I find, unfortunately, at least in the American team at times, it seems to be sometimes we like to eat our own before it's, It's like everyone has to like kind of shit on the person that breaks through versus being excited and being like, yo, let's all lift up together. And it's like, guys, it's awesome if any of us get any sort of coverage.

I know, but that's kind of just human nature. It's like everywhere. I tried to not believe that that's the case, but I time and time again have been proven that it shows itself a little bit more than I would like it. I know. And the ones that we deem not justified, they do kind of sting a little bit. I remember saying to, I tell his story a lot, but Nick DePaulo is a comedian out of New York. And he was complaining about somebody who came through. It was like this upfront.

So all of the sitcom people were in New York. And I remember him like, just kind of bemoaning this one person who got through. And I said, it's all right, Nick. It happens in every business. He said, yeah, but in other businesses, you don't have to see. the guy's face on the side of a bus. That's true, you don't have to watch them on your phone or see, yeah, it's a, it's a bummed. Yeah, I've been trying, you know, I always tell people eyes on your own paper, because it doesn't

help to be, you know, bitter or jealous. That's not a good look either. Totally. And I think usually, like, I feel misunderstood a lot. I am someone who shoots myself in the foot and I'm addicted to being like, you know, I'll be holding a canister of gas and being like, who the hell I lit my house on fire? And it's like, I'm the guy dripping the fire to there. In what way?

What do you mean? I just, you know, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm. passionate and I am someone who until people get to know me I think I'm like I you know I think I'm either very lovable or it's like I'm people are like I fuck that guy right I have I have fuck that guy face rather than I want to fuck that guy's face I want to like fuck that guy in his face and I and I and so I try to beat the I try to beat the I try to beat this image of me out there but like right I think it comes from like I have a my training I went to a clown school in France right Philippe gollier yeah great shout him out tell him tell the story

story though. How did you find yourself there? I was, so I moved here at 18 to be a star. No training, didn't know a single person. From where? Uh, from a small city called Chicago. Nice. Chicago suburbs. Yeah, but I'm from New York. I grew up in Chicago. I moved here at 18. And then my joke is always, I'm from whatever you think is cooler. Whatever, whatever you like, that's where I'm from. Go bears, go Knicks. Hey, the Dodgers rock. You know, so I'm here to please. I'm here to please. And And then also if I really want to, I'd be like, well, I lived in France for years. I've lived in London. So I can really change quick.

Yeah. But then I was out here as an unfuny, enthusiastic 19-year-old. I was street performing on the promenade making no money singing guitar. Oh, wow. Dressed in, and we'll take a breath. Quarteroys, a V-neck, a cardigan, and a fedora. Nice. Nice.

And I made over three years, zero dollars. You just described my wardrobe. Yeah. But the thing is, is, you pull it off. Me, I was tough. Yeah, middle-aged man, 18-year-old kid. Did you have the desert boots as well? I do have some.

But the thing is, were you holding a guitar with a tip-tar? And that's where I think it splits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you come out at that age, you're just thinking, I'm just going to be in show business, but no, you weren't thinking comedian or actor. So I had, I was Mr. Sports in high school. I kind of high school musicaled a little bit. Yeah. And then.

What was your sport? Baseball and basketball. Baseball had a chance to play. in college at a school better than I. I famously got a letter of intent to play baseball at Harvard. And that was because I cheated on my ACTs. My mom doesn't believe me, but girly, it's me. I spent my whole life learning how to read a Scantron.

How can you cheat on an ACT? You don't think I didn't figure out how these Scantrons work? What do you mean? So by the different Scantrons, there was different, like, if it was the, every five, it would change color, like green, white, green, and then it would have the lines on every 10, so I would know where I was. And I would know that where the name starts was number 12,

where the surname starts was 17. So I had my little markers so I could bust them up and kind of take these little glances and I had a really good eyesight. I'm a hustler, baby. You know, work smarter, not harder. And they were smarter than me. And it was harder for me to do it. So I just copied off them.

And I told my buddy Joey, thank you Joey Warsh, who went to Michigan. I appreciate you. Thank you, Joey. I copied off his entire thing. Oh, so you were able to line up? I have the same card as that guy. Yes. Every single one.

And I told him before I was like, do you study for this? He's like, yeah, I was like, same attitude or for like six months, which I did, but I fell asleep during my like sessions. Yeah.

I would let her leave early, but you don't have to tell my parents. Just like, we'll call it a day. Yeah. And he would always be like, 22, what'd you get? And I'd be like, what you get?

And he'd be like, see? And I was like, yeah, yeah, me too. Grace it and see, you know? And I did that the whole thing. And I'm good at like creative writing and I, if I study or apply myself. So it was good enough that Harvard was like, that in your baseball?

And so that mixed against my not so great GPA, they're like, all right, what is up with this guy? He's busy with baseball. He's busy with baseball. He's busy throwing mid-80s from the mound and never making it to the big leagues. You were a pitcher. I was a pitcher and a shortstop and a catcher and a switch hitter, classic bisexual origin story. And I love baseball. I've also, I mean, it's such a gay sport in a non-derogatory way.

What baseball is? Oh, yeah, smack an ass. You're like reaching into your ass to pull out nuts. You bust in your own mouth. I mean, it's jockstrap, city, you know, it's like, it's a, it's a gay sport. Yeah, yeah. A lot of storytelling. A lot of like gossip.

Storytelling gossip, you've got like big, hunky, corn-fed mid-Westerners and like sexy Dominicans. You know, you got, it's pride, but on a baseball field. And so I played this way. And then I took acting my senior year because I was told it was an easy A. Uh-huh. And I took it my junior year and I got a B-minus. So, you know, against all odds, I persevered.

And then I took it again my senior year. And on the first day, my teacher was like, you are a cool kid, people are going to listen to you. So if you're going to fuck around, get out of here. And I was like, okay, I respond to this. I went into it and I enjoyed it. And then eventually halfway through, they were like, you should go check out some stuff

at Second City downtown. Look at this All-Star cast. My first show I ever saw featured Tim Robinson, Sam Richardson, Holly Laurent and Katie Rich, who are two great writers and performers. Edgar Blackman, it was a show called, I think I saw South Side, of heaven first, then spoiler, everybody dies,

or it's the other way around. And I watched this and I was just like, what is this? Right. And this is high school? I was a senior, I was 17 years old at the time. And you've taken your class, so it's all primed. Exactly.

Right. And my teacher was Blaine's fan of the improvised Shakespeare company who, I met last summer with my friend Emily, and I was about to go up to him and be like, hey man, I don't know if you remember this, but you won't remember this, but you were my first teacher. And he was like, dude, I love Stamptown. this is so cool.

I was like, dog, you've no, like, this is a lot. Yeah, like you taught me as a baby, and I would know I was annoying. I was unfunny and I was enthusiastic and I was annoying. So yeah, I just, I just, like, I was applying for schools, but I was like torpedoing my applications because I knew if I got into some places, my parents would make me want to go.

Oh, you know. You didn't want to go. No, I just, none of them felt right. Yeah, yeah. And then my dad was like, hey, what do you want to do? And I'm like, I want to go to California. And so I was out here. I eventually started taking my own,

like acting classes and music classes, dance classes. It's so funny that my wife is teaching drama, and she was involved in this musical in junior high. And it was the first time this school had a program, a theater program. And I'm watching all these kids. And they literally was like, thank God there's a theater program because these kids existed at the school. and this is the only place

where they're going to find pure joy. This just fits them all. The crew, the leads, the backups. It was just like, I bring it up because not knowing you very well, knowing this personality was a six-year-old kid. And you must have been like circling around just trying to find shit until senior year.

Well, that was the thing is like I was, I was very much like a look, you got to look good to play good. So like, I was joking. I did a little podcast with some drag queens the other day and I was like, my drag face was, was like, I'm doing eye black in my baseball, you know, the face.

And I've got my sweatbands and my gloves, and I'm doing like gay semiotics with, like, one glove out of my left ass cheek. Your coach has no idea. It's all about accessories. Truly. And I was like, I was like the biggest, it was so obvious that there was some theatricality, some zest to my life that I was not finding.

And I, it's funny because I now, are you a sports person? Yeah. What are your sports of choice? I, when I was in school, I played football and track. Nice. What positions? Yeah. And what track was.

Fullback. I was a running back. Come on. Yeah. Powered down the middle. Yeah. Then you see this Bo Jackson shirt. Yeah.

Yeah, 34. My middle name is Bo. I was named after Bo Jackson. Oh, really? athlete and I'm like, that is me, except I'm not working out, but I'm getting back into it. But I don't know if it's fun. I love people who have the sport and like theatrical crossover. Yeah. Because that is, that is my show. I come from sports discipline. Right. And I come from sports mentality of like I, I, when I pick up now or any sort of game, I don't care about winning.

I want it to be the most fun version of the game. Right. Yeah. And if you have the game winner, that's fine. If I do, that's awesome. I love to talk shit. So if I hit the game. game winner, I'm going to be dancing all over the fucking court because that is the fun part of the game to me. But it also, when you said that the teacher said, came down on you and was like strict and don't F around and you're going to be in here. That's how I related with my first when I got to school to college and I went literally because they had no sport and they had no football and I was like, I'm going to go. And this was like the meanest acting teacher. No one liked her because she would just yell at you. What was her name? But I was used to

football coaches. So I was like, this is great. Yeah. I want to please her. I'm going to, I'm going to work hard and tell me what I'm doing wrong. That, that, that, uh, athlete thing definitely helped. But I was out here. I found my way to this professional acting conservatory that was really wanky and I left after a year. And I was proud and I hated the guy who ran it and he got me too a few months later. So, so I suck it. Uh, yeah. And so I was, I felt vindicated in that way. I've had a few of those in my life, which makes you feel vindicated for me hothead. But, Like, I, um, I was interning at the UCB theater. I was scrubbing toilets for free classes.

I was also part of the era that I did a lot of unpaid internships. And I'm fortunate that I had a day job to be able to handle that. But like, I don't know. I feel like that mentality really taught me to appreciate and work really fucking hard in this. But I, yeah. My night manager at UCB, Gilly, shout out Gilly. Gilly was working for Sasha Baron Cohen's production company at the time. And Sasha's teacher, Philippe, who became my teacher, was coming to L.A.

And she was like, are you interested in this? Also, we have a free, there's an open, unpaid intern spot at Sasha's company. And I was like, no money, sign me up. Yeah, might be close to Sasha. Exactly. I mean, because he's part of my holy trinity growing up was like, Ali G. Jackass South Park was like definitely my world, you know? And so I was like, oh, let me just take this workshop with his teacher.

I'll be a good Jewish boy and have something to talk about in the interview. And I went to minute five of this guy's class. And I was just like, what? is this? Yeah. I'd only been seeing very supportive, you know, UCB practice groups and people's living rooms being like, oh, that was, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, oh, this could be.

And then, like, people, he would talk about what you would do in a scene that would never be done ever again. And you're like, how does he do this? You know? But it's like, it's not really transferable, this skill set, I felt. Right. And I was watching Philippe Teach where I'm like, this is more of a, I have many definitions of clown, but one of them is like, oh, it's like an approach.

It's like an approach, like, performance dynamics. Right. And this makes way more sense than playing at the top of my intelligence and playing a version of me and being like dork a dorkazoid. You know, I said somebody the other day that I'm excited to pilot here is that people who only use their words are like book-loving dorkozoids. And people who are like, oh, they were making, they were not using language and they were using their bodies and being silly. And I'm like, sorry I'm evolved and I can communicate with multiple elements of my body. You know, sorry I'm not clinging to words for dear life. I can express myself beyond my words.

In fact, I actually don't even know how to express myself with words. But I was always feeling like this, and I felt really at peace, even without knowing anything. Just hearing him talk and just seeing his approach. Yeah, and he just didn't give a fuck. And it's not that he doesn't give a fuck. How old was he? What was, describe him? Oh, man, Philippe's, so he unfortunately passed away in February this year.

Oh, sorry. Crazy was the first person to find out because I texted his wife a day before her birthday, thinking it was her birthday, happy birthday. And then she responded being like, thank you. Philippe has passed away. And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. So perfect clown student, wrong day thinking he's doing the right thing. Yeah.

It's the worst muse of all time. A tear rolls down. Genuinely, man. I mean, that rocked. That's rock. I'm still, I'm still grieving that. Yeah. But, you know, he is.

So when you see him, what does he look like physically? So Philippe, you know, when I saw him, he's, uh, it's how you picture of French clown master. He's got big hair. He's got a big hat, sometimes a beret, sometimes a cowboyish-looking hat. big red glasses with his eyes darting back and forth he's got a mustache a little beard

he's got a drum he's got some silly clothes he's always wearing and he how he starts his classes he would like with the drum and then it's one two three and you start and then you have five to seven seconds to be alive and full of life and if not it's but alo is this awful

or I am drunk and then sometimes his wife would be like you're drunk but it is awful and it's all everything is a joke and he just he is a lover of people he is a lover of chaos i think he is like pure chaotic good he is a lover of art he is a lover of saying fuck you to the establishment or fuck you to the bastards that are ruining people's lives and he never found i i would i appreciate from him that i feel like a lot of people who are well intentioned don't split the the difference or the ride the line as well as like

he was never preachy and he was never virtue signally and he was never like i am the one he was just someone who could identify what was wrong and then obliterate it or fix it or mend this or support this, whatever it needed. And I try to take that in my life from him. My dream would be to be the modern day court jester, the one who can speak truth to power and, you know, lead a revolution against the bastards out there. Yeah. And that's his fucking thing, you know. And was he was, were there a lot of students? Yeah. I mean, when I took my first class in L.A. with him, there were 48 people on day one, and we finished with 23. Yeah, it was my next question.

How many survived it? Oh, yeah. And people couldn't handle it. And it's like, I think people take it so serious. They take it so personally. And it's hard because I've had my big breakdowns. I mean, I was funny twice in two years of clown school, both by accident. Twice.

No one wanted to work with me. I was deeply unfunny, but I was charming, and I had good spirit. Can I ask a silly question? Of course. I was hoping you were going to go, is it all about being funny he is a theater school he's just a clown master

and so it's it's and that means you are you can either like you you just need to be performing in a way where you're showing your beauty and he would say and this is and I don't you know I don't want to be quoted verbatim a billion percent on his pedagogy or is like his this is my interpretation of it

is that there are actors and there are clowns, and clowns are shit actors, and actors are usually shit clowns. Now, I don't fully agree with this, but it was more that you could kind of figure out, are you beautiful and you're using these clown principles to let your beauty irradiate in a way that we are falling in love with you and you are breaking our hearts?

Or are we going, look at this idiot. Look at this ridiculous fucking loser right here. But both are equal value. And if you can become okay with like, loving your idiocy and being bad at something. Yeah. Then, you know, well, everyone's good at being good. So then you're at least entertaining and watchable.

And then you learn how to be funny later. Right, right, right. That wasn't the goal. That wasn't the primary goal. It was just to be human and be present and be alive. Exactly. And then also he would teach how the school worked. It was two 10 year, or two 10 year, two 10 week, three 10 week courses over two years

if you wanted it. Say that again? So it was two years and they were broken up into three 10 week sessions. Gotcha. So the first year it would be like three weeks of mask work, four weeks of melodrama, three weeks of Bufon, and then the second year it was like 10 weeks of Clown, 10 weeks of Audville, 10 weeks of Bufon. What's Bufon? Bufon's like the inverted clown, the earliest forms of satire.

Oh, okay. And so it's like some real motherfucker satire. It's not just like, you know, I think we're kind of like doing some weak-ass baby shit right now where everyone's like, and take that J.K. Rallying. It's like, we're not doing anything there. If you're going to get in there, destroy them. Like, really? Like, Bufon is, Bufon, how he would describe it is like,

it's the oppressed, playing the bastards that mocked them there, and you, you play them so hard, and you perform to their face that these people don't know that it's them, that it's you that you're talking about,

and then they go home that night, realize it was them, and they're so scared of what they saw, that they kill themselves. Now, whether that's metaphorical or literal is up to you. It's a goal. It's a goal. So, like, Bruno,

Sasha Baron-Colm, Bruno, the whole wrestling scene at the end of the movie is Buffon. Right. Doing gay wrestling in the middle of the South where their sung shirts would say, my asshole's just for shitting. Or Clayton Dave's Man Schlamman Spectacular. Yeah.

That is unreal. Right. It's unreal. Man, it takes courage to do that. That's what I'm saying. And so, like, you know, all the people that went to some of these other gigs, it's like, or, you know, like, you know, I think, like, the Tony Hinchcliffs of the world are fucking cowards

where it's like, you got a chance to perform at a Trump rally at Madison Square Garden. Well, if you don't leave there threatening to get shot or hung in the town square, then like, you didn't do your job, brother. And I dream to have that opportunity, you know? I want to burn it to the ground. It wasn't about cozying up. No, fuck that.

They don't realize they let a clown in here and have that. Exactly. Exactly. So that's like kind of, you know, Philippe's whole spirit. And, you know, in these classes, it was never about being the best at mask. It was never about being the best at melodrama. But what mask taught you is if you're wearing a different specific type of mask, if you're looking too much up this way

it's like okay well we got to readjust how we're looking at you because sometimes it could just be that your jokes aren't landing because you're up here you to be down here or your swaying side just died and so he'd get behind you and he'd hit you with a stick and be like stop by you move too much and have you whack you and you're like ow you know

then you're having fun and it's a game with all this but then you remember like ah you know and you just you get them aware of this and then in melodrama it's like the scenes were crazy it's like it's a family of five and the husband has to go to you know everyone looks at the door

and the bailiff is there and the army general and they need to take the father and the father goes, I'll go and the mother's like, no, you can't. Our children and the oldest child goes, don't worry, I got this.

I'll raise them while you're gone and the father goes and they leave and they sing a song and then two minutes later, I'm sorry, but your father passed away. And then the oldest son goes, oh, I'm going to go avenge them and the mother goes, no, raise the family,

I got this. And then the mother dies and it's like all this. So you're either watching like beautiful heartbreaking theater or you're seeing the dumbest morons all positive, dumb, stupid, idiot, bizarre ridiculous, all very positive clown words.

The dumbest fucking idiots in the world. Try to do this. And you're just like losing your mind because you have the ability to take this thing so seriously but you look so spectacularly stupid. Right. And both of those are wins. Is it about playing the truth though? Is it about or is

there another objective? It's more it's like you need to find like the root of it all is like your pleasure. If you are not beaming behind the eyes to tell what you're doing or play what you're doing. Right. We don't care. That's it.

It's the joy of you. The joy of us and as well, it's like not doing sense memory of like, oh, you're playing a scene where there's like, you know, a trauma and you're like pulling up a time you were assaulted. It's like, that's for therapy. That's vulgar. Right.

His whole thing is this isn't real. In fact, none of this is real. Sorry, Daniel DeLuis, you're not Abraham Lincoln. Right. You're, that you are ridiculous that you believe you are Abraham Lincoln. How about you just pretend? Because it's fun to lie and have the pleasure of a lie. And you go, I'm going to break your heart pretending to be Abraham Lincoln.

And it's just a lighter approach. And it doesn't work for everybody, but it works very well for me to have the, yeah. Please, I'll be you same Abraham Lincoln. Hello? Let my people go and you're like, wait, that's Moses. Okay. And then you find yourself in this thing that I'm not, realism is not the marker for me.

I'm like, I just want to see someone do their thing as much as they can. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. It's fun, man. I'm so addicted to it, and I love it so much. Yeah. It's really interesting. I remember, man, I want to say Michael Douglas.

It might not be. I think it definitely was. And he had said that, you know, when he was younger, all the acting was about the method of, like, believing that you had this stuff and you'd, you know, call up the trauma in your life to be able to put it out there. and that that's what it'd be you needed to do that because the camera can tell when you're lying and then he thought to himself eventually in his career uh i'm a pretty good liar i don't know if the camera's going to know if i'm lying yeah and they didn't take it as seriously and would just

play what he you know he was lying he was acting he was doing the same thing and pulling it off beautifully without all of the personal cost yeah it's so stupid yeah it's like yeah oh this is what acting is. And it's also, it's supposed to be fun. It's like, it also, we're, you're pretending. Like, if you zoom out and I think I'm on the farthest end of the spectrum where I probably don't take everything as serious as much as maybe people think I do because I am playing all the time, but I'm like, what a boring existence to always make everything so serious. Yeah. It's already hard out there, so why not try to bring some levity to all of every situation if you can? I mean, they're definitely as funny people. There's, when you see,

actors doing real emotional, deep things, that is impressive. Of course. Of course. They're minding something in their being. Yes. That is worth going after. And, you know, and maybe by its nature it is serious.

You know what I mean? I don't want to discount all those kind of actors. Of course. And I think this is also, like, I will throw a bunch of shit out there and I'll be like, and like, obviously, I don't fully mean this all the way. No, but you totally. Yeah, but you do for yourself and for how you're navigating your art. I think what I've also tried to decide and decipher with how I just choose to speak is like I live and perform.

I really try to go moment to moment all the time. And I'm like, how can we make this the best moment possible all the time? Yeah. And I only mean what I say in this moment. If you talk to me tomorrow, I could change my mind. Now I do have some principles that I kind of abide by. But I know that I know nothing. And I'm, you know, my friends jokingly call me Mr. Reliable because I'm unreliable.

But I'm a dreamer and I believe what I say when I say it and I mean it. It just doesn't always happen. Because I can be out the door to do something and literally get hit with something and like, oh, wow, look at that. And then I just down that path for eight months. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, shit, I didn't do that thing eight months ago. I said I should probably see if that's still happening. Yeah.

But, you know, I'm just, I'm in the wind a little bit. So there's, so you go to all of the schooling and you're growing. and you did two years. Two years. Two years. Yeah. And he was that influential that all these years later when you hear of his death, it's to your knees. Yeah, man.

I mean, I really love him. I love his wife, Michiko, as well. Hello, Michiko. I miss you. And they, I mean, they taught me everything. And maybe I, you know, I believe I have a very healthy relationship to it. I don't, like, purport to have any special relationship that other people didn't have. Like, everyone's relationship.

to him was special and I loved the one that I had and I cherished our time I used to always come back and visit they let me come back and see the kids and see the school and I got to go see him when he was sick and I got to see him a few months before he passed and it was rough you know he was blind at this point but he still had a sense of humor

and you know he was sitting at the table across from me and Michiko was like you know she's a Japanese woman she's tough and she's hilarious and fucking she's a former student of his and then she organized a workshop in Japan and And by his terms, again, this is going to be an intense word, but he would go, Michko, he calls her pom-pom.

He goes her pom-pom, she invite me to Japan, and then she raped me. And then she'll punch him and be like, that is not true. Go back and forth and like, it's just so playful. Everything is so playful, and they love to say the nastiest shit to each other because they love each other. And it's like so obvious that we're being playful with each other. And so I've just absorbed that spirit. And, you know, when I saw him, Michgo was like, you know, if you want to, to come to this to our house to see philippe like you know he had a stroke and he can't see right now

you you know then you need to be coming for love because he is not good with noise and you are very noisy and if you were going to ask to teach at the school the answer is no so if you want to come for love you may and if not I will see you soon and so I went there and she was talking he said you remember Zach and he's like yeah she's like American young one he's like ah he's you funny yet And I was like, you know, I'm learning. And he made like a little face where he's like, we'll see. So when you come out of that and you're coming back here, you came back here? Yeah, when I finished the school.

So I was there, yeah, I was there 2014 to 15. And I went to the Edinburgh Fringe in 2015. Did my first year with my comedy partner, Vigo. We did a show called Zach in Vigo. Right. And he's amazing. He's a Norwegian clown. He's the funniest guy in the world.

And we did that. And then I came back to him. America and then that kicked off kind of like nine years of living nomatically up to the pandemic where like I didn't live anywhere. I was just on the road. My math is off. I think it was like seven years. Seven years on the road. Because I was on the, I mean what? Just doing Zach and Vigo, doing my solo shows, doing early versions of Stamptown, producing other shows. And where were you doing these shows? What kind of spaces? Oh, anything. Anywhere and everywhere. So we started off doing like, you know, this eventually became the groove, but it was like January to April was the Australian Festival Circuit.

and we would do Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, and Sydney. And then we would go back through America to the UK and Europe and to Edinburgh and August. And then September, October, November was kind of like, ah, we're probably doing a little bit of America just to come and say hello. And then go back to Europe and then December was kind of our wild card. So it's like sometimes it was India. Sometimes it's back to Australia. Sometimes it's New Zealand.

Seven years of this kind of a schedule. And still kind of, I'm still doing it. I'm not going as intensely with a lot of it. but like, you know, that is, I'm a carney, you know, I ran away to the circus. And I, I love it. And we have a lot of comedians that come through here and think they're on the road. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, dog, until you've slept four in a bed like sardines and Adelaide for five weeks at the Adelaide fringe, like, I don't think you fucking live this life.

I know. And also, even when I say that stuff, it's just like, you know, it's all said with a bit of jest, but I'm like, you know, we fucking live this shit. No, it's really, yeah, that's a totally different level. It's intense. And we would always say, you know, and I'm gonna guess, I'm just gonna guess, not a lot of dough.

Don't embarrass me like this. Of course. Right? Of course, you know, you don't be on a clown to make money. It's really hard. We always joke like every pile of money I get, it gets thrown into the incinerator

to fully, you know, keep the train going, and we are always laying the tracks as the train is barreling down the road. And, you know, even my, bless our new producer, Maya, who I've been hiring to work with us like we'll get like a good lucrative deal. I'm like, well, okay, we've done it. But it would be fun if Tom came along.

And I know it doesn't make sense logistically. He's across the world, but he's a good hang. So, fuck it. Bring him down. And she's like, it is infuriating to work with you. It's beautiful to see how much you love your friends and how much you love to do this. But I'm like, I'm kind of addicted to not making money. What does that do for you?

Ah, you know, causes me a lot of stress. It does? No. Is it more stress than it is for? freedom? It's a mixture because I think from the outside people, I mean, I don't think anyone's disillusioned that they think I'm doing amazing, but I think people think I have hit a level of success because we have this movie special and we have been touring and we are successful and I am free that my only worries every day are like, I need to make a living and I make a living

by performing, producing or teaching or, you know, the odd acting jobs. And I am incredibly grateful for that. And I'm sick of having to tell my friends that we can't pay their full rates. and I'm sick of always asking favors of people, but I work on a hustle and barter system where it's like I over-extend a lot and I give a lot and I pay back when I can. And I think we provide, the Stamptown and myself,

provide a lot of opportunities for a lot of people. And our whole thing is like, you don't have to say yes. I just love to have you here. So I'm going to try, I always say pleasantly persistently to get you to come and do this. And I hope it's fun enough

and it's fulfilling and it's soul food enough that you want to do it. And I'm making it seem like, you know, people get nothing. People are getting paid and we are getting opportunities. It's just like, you know, I'm out there as our salesman

trying to be like, what do I have to do to convince you this is worth the money that you're giving this dog shit performance down the road? Right. And it's no shade on them, but like, I know the show is better. Yeah, right. And I know these people need this. So, like, how do you, I don't know if you've experienced this

along the way in your career, it's like, how do you get people, how do you get people to buy in? Because I think we've got the credits, and I think we've earned it. But like, you know, it's... You mean the other performers? I guess more of the outside. The people who can financially support this.

Like, I'm desperate for infrastructure. I'm desperate for a studio and an office. Right. I've never wanted to work a job more in my life than to have my own job that I'm already doing. But like, it's really difficult. Yeah, yeah. Well, you can't do that part of it you can't do on your own. No, and I do, like, you know, I produce as well.

So, like, I have... Stampton is a production company. Yeah. But it's funny because, you know, again, I'm a guy who's solo show has, five people in it. It's me, a sound guy, my lighting gal, a guy on roller skates, and a trumpet player.

And they're big, and we carry equipment. So, like, it's a ridiculous proposition. I can't just go and do a weekend somewhere. I could have done that over the years. Sure. But it's not fulfilling to me. Right, which is beautiful. I know.

Yeah, and that's why I'm asking the question because I know there's, it's, really, it is like, it's a beautiful thing. And whenever I see people that really, dedicate their life to their art, even though it's not paying. There is always the question in my mind of, at what point is the, how long can you hang on to it before the stresses of it make you go on dancing with the stars? Yeah.

It's really funny you say this because, you know, in an era where, you know, I dated somebody for a bit a few years ago who's like, she's crushing it on the brand game online and is like a millionaire from this stuff, you know? Right. But that's not what I want. I have a hard time doing that. You know, we've been propositioned by a few other places where like, can you just make something you don't care about and cash out?

And I'm like, I just can't. And again, I'm not trying to be like a martyr or a artist over here. That's just not what fuels me. Right. And I have to believe if I'm getting these opportunities now, if I keep going, I will get the one I want. And even with Netflix, it's like, again, I cannot say this enough. I am so incredibly grateful for this opportunity.

Yeah. I believe we will play this right that this will change our lives. Right. And you'll notice, like, you know, we had, there's 40 people in there. We weren't, we weren't able to cover the music that we wanted to cover. Sure. And that knocked out a bit of programming in there. And it's like, it's just because this shit's expensive.

Yeah. And I'm, and even when you do get the opportunity, you know, you still have to prove it. And I hope we've proved it. And again, I am, it's no shade towards anybody there. It's just like, until you know what this thing looks like, and then I see it on paper myself, I'm like, all right, this is kind of expensive. Yeah. I think it's really good.

But it's really hard to figure out. But I mean, how it came out great. It looks great. The way that it moves the different acts that coming through. You know how cool it is to be being right now? You know what I mean? No, for real. Putting together all of those elements, like, you can tell even when you're in the middle of the performance, it's not all buttoned down.

Like, there's a looseness. There's everything that you're describing of that show, those shows. that you're taking around. So what I wanted to chat with you about the football part of is like this special was probably the least playful we had in a while because it was our first time

doing something like this. But we still have these elements but we had, we have like a playbook and it's like in between the acts it's like right after Tom said as soon as I go out and I give them a handshake it's like the stage hands you're gonna come out and do this

and you're running like a hook you're on a hook and ladder with this stool joke and then this person's gonna come across the middle and hit this joke here and once they do this that triggers the vampire to scare them We have a whole blackout.

When the blackouts up, I'm pretending to fake hang myself. Somebody comes and does a beer and we bring on the next person. Right. And then, of course, we never get it right. Right. But we know all the moves we're doing. And we know how to play. You know where you got to get to.

It's like a jazz motion offense between us. And that is like, oh. Was that difficult to convince Netflix of? You know, it's funny. I don't know. Like, I had been through my team trying to pitch Stamped town for years and everyone was like, how many years were you at it?

I mean, Stamptown's been around for 10 years, but I'm probably trying to do it for like eight and people are like, buddy, we love it, we just don't know how it's gonna work. Yeah, yeah. You see them green light the worst project of all time. I'm like, yeah, obviously, it's not gonna work. And, you know, you guys have no taste. Whatever, I got a media training.

I love the industry. But, you know, I just, I'm like, I get mad because I'm like, I do think it, you know, if you only get one chance once to do something, It's like, well, yeah, it's probably not going to be the best it could possibly be. Yeah, yeah. But then, you know. Oh, that's an interesting question.

Did you get to do a couple and put them together? No, I mean, so we, just one show. Oh, no, it was three tapings of three nights, three performances of the same show. Got it. But, you know, it's like. It's funny because watching it, it's like, how do you replicate this? Well, the crazy thing is the show was two and a half hours. And we made it 60 minutes, and linearly, most of what is presented did not happen.

Right. Like, we really. moved. Put it together. And I think one thing that I struggled with, but I'm ultimately proud of is like, you know, I didn't know if this is going to be the only chance we ever get. Yeah. And, you know, I got 100 people with me that I love and I was trying to bring the whole hood with me. I was trying to bring all the clowns of TV.

I'm trying to bring the gang with me. And so it's hard to decide who goes where and that's where I really, I was doing this and this is helpful to me. It's like, hey, this is Zach your friend. This is the producer. This is Zach the artist. As your friend, I want you. in here. I don't know how to fit you in right now. And I can't afford it. And this one was rally

caps. Two outs ready to go basis of it. But like, but that just even that for me helped me just communicate to people to be like, look, A, none of this is personal. I believe, like if I asked them in the most Zach Zucker move possible. And thank you to Ben Lynn from Netflix who's been rocking with us for 10 years. Ben, when we first got this, I was like, all right, how about three? The only got to get one Netflix special, be like, give us more. And I was like, what if we could do New York, London, in L.A., and he was like, great idea. Let's start with one. And I was like, 100%.

You know? I'm on. I'm in. But I appreciate that people understand me enough to know that, like, I'm not trying to be greedy. I'm like just really so passionate. And I love this. And I was like, you will cause me so much less personal strife and hardship. Yeah. If I can know that there will be more of these. Yeah, and I can spread them out. Exactly. But I, you know, and so it was a mixture of like, okay, what can we afford? What's available? what works, who's in town?

And ultimately, who can I ask a lot of where I'm probably not going to be able to give so much besides this opportunity? And if you buy into this in a team mentality, it is worth it. But don't you find, like, I've been on films that operate that way. Yeah.

And it's like the number one on the call sheet to the last, they're all making the same. I got paid the least on the special and it's not again a martyr thing. It was just like, it's a no-brainer. And the people are psyched to do it. And the crew's psyched to do it. Like if they believe that you're going to try to make something great, they're in.

They just want it. Right. Don't you find that? Well, that's what I always, that's what I always aspire to create that environment. And I think I'm learning, you know, this was a huge learning experience for me. I did not nail it by any means in terms of like running a flawless production because I am an idiot. I'm as dumb as advertised and I've never done this. But I'm thankful that I'm surrounded by geniuses.

who support me and understand. And again, it's not that you can't make mistakes. Going back to the thing with Golié, I rarely get something right. But what I'm very good at is identifying what's wrong and knowing how to fix it. So like, when we're going through this and figuring out, I'm like, I probably should have done this.

All right, let's, or this isn't working. Let's try this version of the thing. Did you do a director? We did, yes. You did. We did. And I think, again, as a normal production, you would have time to do this.

And we were given what we were given. And again, not a judgment. This is not pissing on the face of the person. people who gave me the opportunity, unless that's what they're into. But like, I'm just, I just, you know, we, we didn't have money for rehearsals. Yeah. We didn't have money for a lot of stuff. Gotta get in and go.

Yeah. And so that's where I, you know, I made, you know, I made, I put in, I think maybe a thousand times more than I made. Right. And I knew that. Yeah. And I'm like so grateful. Shout out my voiceover agents, Sue Terry voices for keeping me alive with my IIMs dog

food voiceovers. Oh yeah? I promise I'm... Your I'm... I will eat that food till I die. I'm allergic to cats and told him I'd get a cat.

Like, you guys have kept me alive and kept this production alive. So thank you. I love y'all. Is still going? Oh, yeah. They're still going. I mean, look, I've usually come in

every few months or so and I will literally do anything to keep working with you guys. Oh, God, I love them. That's the best. What's your... What's the line? Healthy poop in 10 days?

Try Ims, digestive five. Now with prebiotic fiber. You know, like, these are like, when is fluffy? Too fluffy. And I'm, like, doing, like, the fat shaming cat ads. I'm cat shaming them. But I love it. I love it.

I love to be in there and them. Like, it's all a British agency. My agents are all these lovely British women. It's like British women from, like, 18 to, I won't say how, maybe how high the age range goes out of respect to my girls. But then I walk in and I'm just getting like a sound bath of a chorus of like British women going like, hiya, hey, hi. You know, and I'm like, it makes me.

me feels so happy to be with them. So when you get pulled off the road, the crazy freeway that is that route that you're talking about of performing every year, and you get a little voiceover work, and then you get this Netflix special, is it enticing at all to, is there any part of you that's like, maybe I stay in town for the year and see if I can generate other kind of projects like this, or is it you're going to find it out there? It's so funny, because I'm on a. real big no.

Yeah. I love this. Yeah. I love this and I am, you know, we are fielding offers so I don't want to make it seem like nobody gives a shit at all. But, and that when I say I am desperate to do this, it's like my, my just desire to put on live shows with my friends that make people feel good. Right.

There is no better feeling in the world. Yeah. To also then be able to provide, like, to provide opportunities for people that. that I love that I believe in is also equally as fulfilling to me. Yeah. And I'm thankful that while, you know, we have our flaws in our system, for the most part, it's been a pretty like, hey, I scratch your back and you will scratch mine, but it feels really nice.

Yeah, yeah. And a lot of good stuff will happen for both of us. Yeah. And what I really, you know, as things are changing, like, you know, we're navigating a lot of new feelings and new like areas in the business. And one thing that I struggle with is like, yeah, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I don't love when people are like, it's Zach's show, it's Zach Zucker's Stamptown, like that makes me feel a little uncomfortable.

I'm like, yo, to me it's team sports. And like I, they trust that I'm like live directing this thing and I'm curating this. Yeah, yeah. But like it is, it is a piece. Yeah. You know, and I am playing the role of Ringmaster in this piece. And so, you know, it's strange because then a lot of people's advice has just been like, you know, stamp town's amazing, but it's time to build you.

And like, I get that, but like, this is me. Right, yeah. And I'm not like dying to go out for a co-star and a show that I've never given a fuck about in my life. Yeah, yeah. That's not fulfilling to me. And I'd, you know, I almost had to cancel like three shows in London this year to do. Like, I was up for a TV show and I was like genuinely kind of excited for it.

And then I didn't get it. And I was like, oh, if I got it, I would have had to have like missed these shows. And what you're telling me I don't get to hang out with Kima and Sakisa and huge and do these shows? Hell no. I'd rather take three days with them than, you know, however much money in six weeks in a other place. but like, I also am like, I would love this money because then I can keep doing this. Yeah, I think about that all the time. Did you have, did you have any moments like that in your career?

Yeah. That were like influx periods, I guess, or like, what do you mean? Or like, was there some of these defining crossroads where you're like, oh, I could do this? But I actually, you know, it makes sense for me to go all in on like, let me do brand stuff and dress cool and tag them and try and play Hollywood. But that, that like makes me want to vomit. Yeah, no, I know what you mean. Like, it was never like really. crossroads because it was always stand-up. It was always, this is the thing, and this is what I'm going

to get as good as I possibly can and continue on and continue performing. Like, that was just always the thing. All the things that pop up, a role in this or a thing or a hosting of this or whatever, those are just fun little ancillary things. But it was always back to that, you know? And then, like, there was never a part where I was like, had a role in something and, said, no, you know what? I'm going to go in, all in on this and try and get these parts. The parts just kind of happened by mistake. It seems like that's, I mean, out of all of the, I've maybe done seven to ten legitimate, however you call it, film or TV things in my life spread out over seven years.

Yeah. And in my 15 years, I've only ever booked one thing off of an audition. Right. Like, I am batting one for 900. You know, I'm not, my batting average is not good. And I'm like, damn, am I that bad at this? No, I guarantee, I guarantee it's because your heart and soul is. isn't into it and you're not putting all your energy.

No. But then sometimes I do it. I'm like, like, come on. I'm like going off the role of like dip shit asshole. He was like a prankster and I'm like, come on. Throw it my way. But I feel that of like, you know, I in some of them. A lot of it's subconscious by the way. Yeah. Right? A lot of it like when I tell that of like these things are ancillary or whatever, it wasn't a plan. It was just I am a stand up. Yeah. And then looking back over the

career. It was like, oh, I never took my, I never stopped that. Like, in any time you go and do these other things, you never, I never felt as good as when I came back to the stage. Yeah. That's how I And it wasn't planned. It was just, I thought this is what I wanted to be. And it turns out, that is what I am. Yeah. And I think I've had that, I kind of had that reckoning this year after Philippe's death and in the process of the special, you know, I had a lot of loss this year and a lot of loss in the last year and a half. I'd never experienced really, I've been thankful. I've lost, you know, I lost a good friend a few years ago and then his sister passed away this year, which was really rough. But I lost three grandparents in the last year and a half. I lost

Philippe, you know, who's somewhere between a mentor, hero, grandparent, father, just teacher. You know, I'm putting all this on him, but it was important to me. And, you know, went through a breakup, like a month before the special with an amazing person who I loved dearly and just didn't work out. And then also, you know, I have some, some friendships that still need to be repaired because it was just a really hard process. But like, you know, it, it, it all feels better and worth it to know that like in spite or despite all of this, like, the thing that brings me the most joy or is most fulfilling is still performing live. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, I want, I want to do this at all costs. Even if it brings some other, like, you know, I guess all the, the person.

perspective of all this has just put me into like, you know what, maybe I'll never, I'll never be on the show. I'll never be at the carpet or the party. But to be honest, dog, if I'm in a green room with my friends and I'm staying a little bit later that I'm supposed to, right. I'm nursing one beer for four and a half hours. I'm terrible at drinking. And I can smoke indoors. I will be there all night and I'll be fulfilled. You know, like that's, that's, that's, cut to the reveal and Max, Masked Singer. Yeah. Yeah. The smurfing. Yeah. Zack. The thing is, you know what I was laughing about? I was talking about this was my friends last night.

To be in anyone's movie doesn't really mean anything to me. But what would be funny would be to be like, is all I care about is as a clown, the right to be like, yeah, I'm not sure if you heard, but I was in a Spielberg movie. And they're like, yeah, I'm a guy who walks into door, but, uh, yeah. Oh, there's nothing that sounds, I mean, there's a reason people go. There's a reason people leave all these other little beginnings. and leave the stage and leave Broadway and end up in the system, it's very seductive. It is.

There's nothing cooler than saying, I have a movie coming out. It rocks. It's the coolest. It's truly just like social boner. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, me? Yeah.

Heard of it. Yeah. And it's really, but the doing of it and the whatever is just. You know, I'm very grateful and thankful. obviously he was in the special, but Neil Patrick Harris to me is like, oh yeah. He's somebody who, not only I am very grateful, him and his husband

and his whole family, David Berka's husband and their kids, Harper and Gideon and their dogs. I love their Gidget and Spike and Chunk and Bianca and everybody out there like, Neil and David both of them, but Neil as well, like, he's done everything and he's done it

in a way where I'm like, that's how I would want to do it. He's fulfilled, he rocks, and like, I know to call World Famer, actor, entertainer, Neil Patrick Harris, underappreciated. To me,

it's like, what do you mean he does at all? But I feel like everyone takes for granted how unbelievably talented he is. Right.

Like this man... When you're almost, you're too good, it just doesn't seem like work. It's this. And I'm like, dude, he is done everything.

Yeah. And still, I feel, like, he is still so hungry. And him, his husband, David Burka, again,

another amazing performer and the best chef in the world. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. David is like, they have their own garden. and I could talk about them forever.

I love these guys so much. How did they cross their path? We met them because Neil had a production company and Zoe who was, and I think what I love about him is I appreciate that people who were his assistants at one point have then now become either running his company or managers or partners, and we have a similar farm system, if you will. Right, right, right. But his production exec, Zoe saw when I did my off-Broadway run,

Jack Off-Broadway of Jack Tucker, his comedy stand-up comedy. I love it. I'm here to jack off Broadway. I'm so excited to jack off Broadway for you. Watch me, Jack off Broadway tonight. But we got a critics pick in the New York Times. And then Zoe read the review and was like,

I think you'll love this. Oh, and he just came to the show? Came with David. And then we chatted afterwards. And then we met up in the fringe. This is 2024 that year. And he did our show and he got a rose whipped out of his ass on stage. And then we were like, I think we're going to be friends.

And then the aforementioned girl I was dating and his husband David were in the 24-hour plays. in New York, and we sat next to each other and had one of those laughs where you're like, teachers like, you gotta leave. Right. And it was that they were raising money for this. And they had a live projector behind them, and they're doing these serious talks.

And so we were putting in names, like, I donated $50 from the name of Pino's McBuggers. And then we started dying. And then Neil posted, like, how long is this gonna go? You know, or like, man, I can't believe it's already 11 p.m. And then, like, people start laughing in the room and the guy's, like, still not quite sure. And then everyone's coming in with, like, Ivana

a lot, you know, like all these. And then they lowered the donation rate from $50 to $1 so they could clear it and get the names out. But then we raised like $4,000 extra dollars because I did like five penis macbougars and I'm like, damn, I just donated $300 to this thing. Like, but and we were just dying and I think from that playful spirit, we were like, all right, you're kind of awesome. Yeah, that's great. And then we've just gone on and traveled and toured the world together and done this stuff. But so good. Yeah, I mean, he's incredible, but what I appreciate from him and what I hope to have, and I feel like you share this as well is like, Neil is, like, Neil is, Neil and David and his manager, John and our good friend, Emily Gillette,

did not have to do this, but in January this year, decided they wanted to go to Golié and study this summer. And it's like, here's an individual who has hosted the Oscars. He's hosted the Tonys. He's been the greatest sitcoms of all time twice, playing the character twice. He's been in cult movies. He's a Broadway star. I mean, again, he's the president of the Magic Castle.

This man can do everything. And he held and pushed off some work and was like, I'm going to go to clown school because I want to learn. learn. So great. And it's just forever a student of the game. It's no mistake. Right?

There's no mistake to why. No. And then the beauty was, I don't know if you know this, but Stamptown, the show in my company is named after Etaunt, La Village de Tamp, which is where the clown school is. Itomp loosely translates to Stam. And I got to go to ETomp, watch four of my closest friends, perform at school with my former teacher on the day that I submitted Stamptown to Netflix. in Stamped Town, 12 years after having this dream of like one day we're going to do this.

Magic. It was true magic. I love those moments. It was a real euphoric. And so to me, I'm like, yeah, right now in my house, I don't got sheets in my bed, and I'm sleeping on my clothes because I need to change my shit and I've only been here for a few days. Yeah. But I did experience euphoria this year.

That's amazing. It could be worse. It could be worse. It's fantastic. Yeah. How old are you? 16. Next year.

You look horrible. I am not doing well. I've been smoking a lot for 16, you know. I'm going to say you need a bed. I need a doctor quick. I'm 33. 33. Yeah.

But I've been out here since I was 18. You know, I've been putting in the work. Yeah. So what's next? It's a great question. Dancing with the scars. Masked singer. 90-day fiancé, love Island style.

Is there more stuff on, like, has the, did the, would the Netflix thing do? for your dates. Did it? I'm going to invoke my media training. Because it's, because it's, you glanced over the states when you're going to all of these, the thing, your route. Here's, is there more stuff in the states that's opening up? How honest would you like me to be?

Really honest. Really? Yeah. Okay. I don't feel people who want the show understand or appreciate how much it costs. Uh-huh. And therefore, I've had a hard time finding New York, or not New York, American venues that can facilitate this. Right.

The hard part too is part of what makes our show so good is that we are pulling people from all over the world. And I am less inspired by, that's unfair to say. I am inspired by a wide range of performers. And my desire, especially in America, is to give them anything but American performers. And I don't even consider American people to be. American performers. You can be American and be an European performer because you're, like, I identify as a French clown. I'm a French clown. That's my training. That's what I'm bringing to the table. You know what I mean? Yeah. But it's, and I don't know how to say this in English, but, um, but like that, I want to do

this, but it's, you know, if you want one person in America that's not from here, that's a $10,000 visa minimum. Wow. And that is really, really hard. We make it so, one of my goals genuinely is to like introduce legislation somehow, somewhere to make it easier for, artists visiting companies to come out here. That's crazy. Because I... And it's always been that way? That's not the recent...

Yeah. But it's been harder recently, obviously. Yeah. You know, and look, I voted for him three times. Well, you've never hidden that. No, no. Look, if you weren't there on January 6th, don't tell me what happened. It wasn't a storm.

It was a light drizzle. It drizzled the capital. That's crazy that it's that difficult. It's really hard. And, you know, look, allegedly maybe in the... past. We've worked around those things, but I don't think we're able to do that anymore. And so what I want to do is I want to do it legitimately. I want to pay my people to do this stuff. But it's a lot of chicken and egg where it's like you have to be out here to do it for

people to see it. But if you can't legally do it, then how do you get them out here? You know, it's like, it's this whole conundrum, but I would love to do more stuff in America. I just want to be able to give them the show I want to do. And I think we've earned it at this point to not have to not do the show we don't want to do. It seems like a New York thing. So that's our big thing. I'm trying to push for a larger residency right there, and there's an opportunity.

That's like our main pitch I'm working on right now. Again, it's just New York is the most expensive city in America and one of the most in the world. Yeah, no, it really is. But it works. But it fits. Yeah, it totally fits. It's a bummer because I want to bring the festival culture to America

because we just don't have circus festival culture the same way. And again, I'm not trying to shade. There's some amazing circuses and communities in America, of course. I just want to add to that and bring what I want to bring to it. And so, you know, like, I know there's like, you know, Circus Flora, at Circus Flora and St. Louis, it's fantastic. And there's like, you know, a big apple, mad apple circus. There's all in New York and some other people like this.

So there, and Vegas, Spiegel World is out there. So there is these hubs. Yeah. I just want to do my own thing too. Yeah, you have your own thing. Yeah. And I think it rocks. I think, I think undeniably it rocks.

Yeah. That's why I feel like New York would just, we'd. Well, so New York has community. and people who do stuff LA has the weather and has the space to do this. New York, the space is a tough spot.

Because I want to build I want like a proper Spiegel tent you know, I want to be in the round and bring this shit here and so like I see all these different you know I live in Echo Park and like I know like the spots

that have been open for years like there was a place called Signior Fish that was out for a while and I was like if I could just take this building I have a rooftop in an outdoor space but I'm like you know I don't know enough good people out here to support the programming that I want to in Los Angeles.

And I don't know enough people who, you know, I'm guilty of it. Like, everybody moves here because they think they're the greatest person alive. Myself included, I was like, the world has to see me. And so when you watch stuff here, you're watching it being like,

man, that's awesome. I wish I was doing that. Instead of like just watching a show. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I know. But it's probably between New York and L.A. Or, you know, am I cursed

to being on the road forever? And I'm like, as long as I can fly. Like, I've kind of made my life goals. I was like, as long as I'm laughing with my friends, I'm creatively fulfilled and I can travel comfortably. Yeah. I'm literally still cool living at the dog shit hotel. Right.

I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm dating somebody at the moment and she was kind of like, yeah, you know, you, you kind of are like the mayor of like dog shit cafe and being a dog shit artist, but like, but like, not because your artist dog shit, but like you're just only able to afford dog shit things. Yeah. So it's going to happen.

I mean, you've got, you know, just that you pulled off. bringing it to Netflix is an arpiter of... And you know, why I think we got that, so you asked, how did we get this? They'd known about this forever. Ben has been pushing it forever. And bless Robbie Pra, who's our king in command over there.

Never heard of him. Yeah, never. And honestly, fuck that guy. Put that just, let's start the clip there. Robbie Prap, fuck that guy. No, Robbie's fantastic. And we did a show at Moon Tower. For real, shout out Colleen, McGar, man.

Colleen and Moon Tower has had our back harder than almost nobody else in the world and she didn't need to and she really did so thank you girl that's why I always leave that space open to do it with them and Colleen was rocking for us at Moon Tower and booking all the people I asked to give this this space to do this and we started off doing outdoor shows and build up to this and in that year Neil hits me up

and he was like hey are you in Austin and I was like yeah what's up he's like oh you know I'm just recording Deadpool the video game you know and I was like yeah obviously same I'm doing Muntar. And so he just came and he was like, can I play? And I didn't know this, but Robbie, you came to town for one day. And he's what's like, she, see and Colleen dragged him to Stamptown. I was like, you have to see the show. Oh, that's great. And then right after that, the next day, they were like, let's shoot it next year. And so sometimes it's as simple as that.

Yeah, I know. Exactly. Well, that's how it happens. I know. I keep doing something for the love of it and pure passion and it's good. It attracts. And then also, again, to not to be, you know, I, I, again, I love. I love. I love. I love. to give it up to my friends, but like, A, Neil didn't have to do this. B, after we sold it, obviously Netflix as a whole, was like, so what about the Neil of it all? And I was like, Neil. Brother, I want to be honest, they need you.

And then on top of that, it's like we've done bits where he's done full sets, but I was like, Neil, I think the funniest thing to do here is for you to do nothing. Right. The only, the biggest name we can get. And it's like, they asked us to replace some of our people's celebrities. And I was like, that's not what I'm interested in doing. Yeah. The bigger you are, the less you're doing in this thing. Right, yeah, yeah.

And also, Neil is not a celebrity to us. He's part of our family. He is our friend. He is an equal and a peer to us. And I was like, being who you are to the wider public, there's nothing funnier than if you are not speaking. Right. And the one opportunity we have, we blow it.

And my dream is that if we get more of these, that arc continues to build. And Neil is the only recognizable guests that you will ever see. And he continues to do either less and less and less until one day it explodes into a big number. And then, you know, something tragic happens. but like what a good sport to be like, again, you don't need this. But he loves it and he has fun.

Are they continuing in the school where your teacher was? They are. It's still going. It's going to still go in some form. Does someone else? So he stopped teaching about a year ago after his stroke. Yeah. And, you know, I know all the teachers there are a lot of them personally and some of them I went to school with.

Some of them were my teachers. You know, it's going to be an interesting transition period. I think I am supportive and I wish them the best and I hope it works out. But, you know, it's obviously the whole point of the school is to never replicate someone else's thing. Your beauty is what you possess that no one else has. So I would think it would be silly if the school tried to redo Philippe. It's like his method is find your own voice and teach these principles. And if you abide by these principles, usually it works.

Yeah. So I hope it works out and I'm excited to see how it goes and I'm optimistic. So yeah. Well, you just need a personality to emerge. Yeah. Well, we were saying there's an opening now for Clown of the Year, Clown of the World. And I was like, I'll throw myself out there. I'm the young one that everyone's going to be like, but I'm like, that's an archetype.

That's a role someone's got to play. And I'm like, if not me, then who? Throw it out there. Let me see. It's probably not me, but if you can't think of someone better, I'll take it. I mean, I feel like you have a lot to do before this. But I think like a nice 72-year-old Zach in a beret with big glasses. Are you kidding me?

Oh, just kind of like shitting on people. I once did this podcast with Tom Papa. The bread was shit. The bread was shit. It's not like this baguette. But yeah, the Godzilla. I baked this bread for you this morning. Did you really?

He's going to go home with you in that little bag over there. No way. And, yeah, 7 o'clock this morning. That's awesome. Turning on the oven and to make sure that you had bread. Thank you. Can I ask you what got you? and I'm sure someone's asked this question before,

but what was your passion for bread and baking? I was always hosting people. I always cook for people. I come from a family of people that just cook New Jersey. Okay, cool. And Italians and just always feeding each other. And a friend of mine taught me how to make sourdough bread out of like a natural way of making it out of a sourdough starter.

And I could never bake because it was too precise, but this is sloppy enough where you could bake and be a cook. at the same time. Nice. And it just hooked me. It just literally hooked me. How long have you been doing it? Like 12 years.

That's awesome. Yeah. Do you have a favorite bread that you like to make? Yeah, my favorite is this olive bread with green olives and Kalamata olives and herbs to province and lemons. So I noticed I didn't get that bread today.

No, no. You got the one that needed to be done by today. Have you felt, because this is genuinely, again, my favorite things I always say, again, you need to understand that I want to be a rapper, a dancer, a basketball player, that I'm a bisexual traveling clown, and I love art. And that almost nothing is serious to me.

Then we can have great conversations. But have you felt your art or your culinary skills improve or change as you've started to, like, I don't know again in English how to say this, but I think you see what I'm trying to say of, like, have you felt that your depth of the knowledge of one has helped expand your palate in the other or help change your approach

to creating. Yeah, you can definitely feel like cross-pollinate a little bit. You know, they're both very humbling. Yes. You know, if you put yourself out there and try something a little slightly different, all of a sudden, you fall on your ass and you feel it's humbling and you've got to get good again.

Yeah. Like all those kind of things. The rhythm of it, the rhythm of like this takes a couple days to make. Really? Yeah. Because you have to start feeding it and then getting making it active and then putting it into a thing. That's awesome. And if I'm in that rhythm, my writing schedule is at home.

And that thing of like writing for a bit and going and turning the dough and coming back, putting it like that whole thing is. And there's also a part of it that, that again, like is beyond what I can really conjure up. There's something to it. Yeah. The subconscious likes it as well. Yeah. And it just, it gets, it can't stop doing it.

You know what I mean? And I can't figure out why and I don't need to figure out why. I just feel, yeah, it feels right. That's amazing. I mean, that's amazing. I mean, I felt that like, I mean, I'm sure you could tell it. I love to talk. And to me, I was like, I can, I know, I've been shy.

It was really hard getting him to open up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me being like, can I be completely honest? Can I air my industry secrets? I love languages and I love, you know, I was in a dual language program as a kid, so that's why I speak Spanish. And then I started learning French.

You know, I speak enough to get by. I speak enough French that the locals think I speak, and then they'll speak at me, and I'm like, ha ha, ha, cool. I'm out. I don't know anything they're saying. But the process of language, seeing that process of learning it,

um, helped me re-remember and create a different relationship to the creative process where it's like, yeah, of course, I got to do my drills. I got to do work on my lefty dribbling or my all-hand dribbling, you know, and all of that helped lighten the process and also helped make it fun.

And it's like, anyway, anytime I think of anything is work, you know, I'm like a kid who was in the principal's office his whole career as a child. And like, I'm not trying to brag, but I knew all the principal's security guards and deans pretty well. And, you know, God, I'm just thinking of like, I used to truly, like, I would call when I didn't have like assignments done, I would call my security guard,

shout out Jumbo, Luis. And if he still works at the school, allegedly, this happened. But like, I would walk into my sophomore year math class and I'd say, oh, shit, I didn't do my homework. And I'd text Luis, it would be like, come get me. And then Jumbo would come through. It'd be like, Zach, I need you in the principal's office. I'm like, oh, come on, man!

And we're doing the whole thing. It's like, bring your stuff. You're gone for the period. I'm like, what? But we have a test today. And Ms. Waller's going to be pissed if I don't do this test, you know? And then I'd walk outside and be like, what's up, brother?

as the kids, and then I'd go and copy off somebody, and I'd come back in with smaller, I'm like, I'm so sorry I didn't make this, but tomorrow I will be here. Do the same thing again in the next class. Brilliant. It's so great. Oh, it's good, but with language,

I loved how much, like, also it opens up culture and people and understanding and art and cuisine and architecture. And, like, you know, I love to be in Paris. I'm such a cliche of a guy there, but I just walk around and I'm just in awe looking at everything, and I'm like, just the detail in these buildings.

Like, Notre Dame is my favorite. It's our lady. She's our lady. I love it. And to watch, to look at it, I'm just like, you know, I feel it's doing something to my subconscious. Yeah, no, you just got to keep feeding it. You just got to keep feeding it.

Even with nonsense and like, dance was it for me too. Everyone's making fun of me. And I'm like, I know you're making fun of me, but remember, I'm a clown, so it's okay. Right, yeah. And also it would be nice to look swagging cool. Yeah.

Well, this was really fantastic. Man, I don't want to stop. This is so fun. Yeah, when you roll through again, you'll have to come through, keep giving us updates. Please, I would love to. And then I don't know when we're going to do another show in Los Angeles,

but if you ever come play, we would love to have you on the show. Yeah, that'd be fun. It's a blast. I think you'll, I think you'd really enjoy it. Yeah. My dream would be to have you, like, what we always tell people is I want people to do anything other than what they normally do.

Right. Now, you can come and just do a set if you want to. Yeah. But, you know. But doing something weird would be good. Yeah, like, you're like baking bread backstage, and you're like, Zach, I am so sorry, dude. And I'd be like, it's Jack.

You're like, sorry, Jack, Jack, Jack. I got this, you know, it's a mess. You know, we could just create this whole thing. And then in the end, you're giving out bread or like someone's playing a bird and you're feeding the bird with your bread. You know, like, we just kind of, we have these little production meetings and just chat like this. Yeah. If that sounds fun to you, it'll be fun for the audience to watch us figure it out.

I'm down. Oh, nice. And let us know how you like the bread. Please, I, of course. How do I do that? Do I just text you and tell you? And with the, yeah. And, you know, it sounds like, um, look.

You're an artist and you're putting it all out there and you're denying yourself some of the financial rewards that you could sell out and go do that stuff. So if you're ever hungry, we'll make bread for you. You know, it's funny as my cousin who's become, she's converted to like, do you convert to being orthodox? I don't know how it necessarily works. You migrate. She got an 01 visa to be an Orthodox Jew now. But she was like, you know, I just, anywhere you want, I'll send you a whole. Chala anywhere. Anywhere you mean. I'm like...

I make a pretty good hala too. It's not as good as this, but it's... Then I'll leave it to the orthodox to give me the... I don't know what the hallier. I'll cover the sourdough. Yeah, you go to the sourdough. But if you're ever hungry, I'm here.

And the thing is, just I will say on camera, be careful, because I will say yes. You open your door to me. I will be living on your couch soon now. All right. We got it, kids.