Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 10/10/15: CEASEFIRE BROKEN ALREADY? ROGAN TRASHES TRUMP, JESSE WATTERS FAKE GUESTS?

Episode Date: October 10, 2025

Krystal, Ryan, Emily, and Griffin look at the latest on the ceasefire between Israel and Gaza, Rogan calling out ICE tactics as Kristi Noem doubles down on Chicago, and questions around a guest on the Jesse Watters FOX show. To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Happy Friday. How's everybody doing? How you doing? Excellent. A bunch of interesting stuff this morning. We've got Nobel Peace Prize has been awarded not totally to Trump, but like kind of low-key, a little bit to Trump.

So that's an interesting one of his lie to get into. To one of his lieutenants. Yeah, John Bolton, Marco Rubio, many people who get to have the benefit of this particular Nobel Peace Prize. We also have the ceasefire officially in effect. We're going to take a look. we're going to rekindle Ryan's feud with Jesse Waters. So you guys definitely want to check that out. All kinds of stuff going on in terms of Trump and Chicago, et cetera, that we want to check in on as well.

But wanted to start with the fact that that ceasefire in Gaza is officially in effect. Ryan, like, what do we know about what's actually going on there and how things are looking? Yeah, went into effect at, what, 5 a.m. hour time, I believe. Israel says that it has redeployed its troops to the lines that they have agreed upon but they will continue to carry out operations basically in self-defense like if they feel like they are being threatened

they will continue to attack Palestinians I think in the last 24 hours at least 17 Palestinians were killed but they also are finding more my understanding of a ceasefire well that is the understanding that the Israeli government usually brings to a ceasefire They reached a ceasefire many months ago with Lebanon

and have been striking Lebanon on a weekly or almost daily basis. So the level of the strikes, a number of strikes, will certainly reduce, but Israel is suggesting that it won't reduce down to zero. Now that they have officially agreed to it, it'll be time to go try to find all of the captives that need to be released and then also try to find the bodies. Meanwhile, Israel is then supposed to begin the process of releasing its 250 lifetime, you know, what they call lifers, these Palestinians serving life sentences as well as what it's 1,700 people who that they, who they basically were holding as hostages, men, women, and children that they had picked up in Gaza after October 7th, who they say have nothing to do with October 7th, but have been in detention anyway, so they're going to release some of those. Now, is Marwan Bargudi going to be part of that prisoner release? Because I know that had been on point of contention.

No, I don't, I have not seen whether, you know, the word is that, you know, Palestinians are pushing very hard for him and the Israelis are resisting very hard. As I understand it, he's currently not in. Marwan Baguri, interestingly, is, you know, he's Fata, which is the rival of Hamas, yet, yet he is Hamas's number one priority because he is the, basically, basically, basically the only figure capable of really unifying Palestinians into a national coalition, which is precisely why the Israelis don't want him released. So it does not, so our understanding at this point is that no, that he will not be, he will not be released. And Ryan, just in the next like 48 hours, let alone weeks and months into the future, are there some tripwires that are like particularly obvious from the 20 point deal or are there places where this is like,

very, very fragile going forward. Well, the circumstances of the exchange, the condition of the captives when they're in exchange will certainly inflame tensions. There's been a siege on. Yet when Israelis have seen previous captives released, they've said, you know, how dare you? How could you treat the hostages this way? and Palestinians look around

they're like this is what we look like too like what are you what are you talking about so that that could that could inflame the situation you know I just geopolitically

curious if you guys take it just feels very difficult for Israel to restart this war I know there's gonna then yah will be under a lot of pressure from his right flank to do it he himself

has very clearly said that he wants to continue this war but I can't think of a faster way to flush what remaining credibility the U.S. and Israel have down the toilet than to get what you said you wanted and then immediately restart it. So I don't know.

We'll see. So Hamas is taking a gamble, but it's basically their only option. And it's a huge relief for Palestinians in Gaza. It'll be caused for immense celebration to finally, they open up the crossings because there's five or six crossings are going to open up. And explicitly as part of the deal, they're going to surge in, you know, humanitarian aid,

which is another admission that they were withholding humanitarian aid for military purposes, which is a war crime. But we knew that. But it will be very benefit. It'll be, it'll be, it'll be, it'll be, it'll be, it'll be, it'll be, changing for people who were on the, on the brink of starvation. Life preserving for people who were on the brink of starvation and being bombed and and slaughtered on a routine basis. Also interesting that GHF apparently is done moving forward. I know you guys have been reporting previously that Israel was really trying to keep GHF in place. So that seems, you know, quite significant. GHF, of course, was the site of those routine or outside of their sites was the, where there were these routine aid massacres committed by IDF troops where we had doctors saying, you know, every time there's a GHF aid distribution, we have mass casualty events. show up at our hospitals. So, of course, very noteworthy that that's going to be gone.

The other noteworthy thing, and Griffin, I don't know if you can pull this up or a news article to this effect, but they're talking about an international force on the ground to police the ceasefire deal. And as part of that, the U.S. will be sending some 200 troops to Israel. So American boots on the ground here to make sure that our ally upholds. their end of the ceasefire deal, at least that's the idea here. The point that Ryan and Jeremy have made in the reporting at drop site that I find very interesting is how the pressures applied to the Arab world in Egypt were really consequential. I'm sorry, the pressures applied by the Arab world to the Israelis in Egypt.

I'm sorry, one of those warnings. to the Palestinians in Egypt were utterly consequential. And what's interesting to me about that, Ryan, is you guys have mentioned that for Palestinians, it was important that Trump sort of put his own credibility into the negotiation by being the head of the board, the committee that's supposed to oversee the peace process and the plan in Gaza. And I guess this question about troops or how it's, you know, how how these tripwires or how Netanyahu could violate the terms of the peace plan. At this point, I was wondering if you had any more thoughts on how like Kushner and Whitkoff and Trump himself have like put themselves on the line. Does that make it, does that

make any sort of betrayal from Netanyahu even riskier from his perspective? Like, what could go wrong there? Yeah, the Palestinians like major insistence was that. deal be personally guaranteed by Donald Trump. They wanted him to put his name on it and announce it publicly. And from an outside perspective, a lot of people are like, what are you talking about? You trust Donald Trump? That's like, that's not exactly the guy that you would, you know, really want to ride or die with on his word. But from their perspective, he's it. Like, he's the guy. Like, there's nobody else in the world who is capable of restraining Israel. But he is. true. So, and which actually goes to this thing where everybody thinks that Israel controls like

the American government. They have enormous amount of influence. The United States is more powerful. If the United States actually exerts itself as it has in the past in almost, in ending almost every other war that Israel was involved in, like that's how those wars end. And American president calls up, whether it's Reagan or Biden or Obama or Trump and says, that's it. That's it. You're done. I'm yanking the leash. Your runways over. or whatever phrase they use, like, it's done. And so they were, I think, waiting for Trump to do that or Biden to do it. And so Hamas is saying, you've got, this is all we have.

We absolutely do not trust Netanyahu. And so if you put your credibility on the line, that's at least something. And they didn't really like that he created a board of peace that was going to have him and Tony Blair on it because that meant there be no sovereignty in the redevelopment for Gaza. But the fact that he was putting a stamp on it was, I think that was kind of Trump's expression of that, of that desire. And Trump, you know, he announced it publicly. He spoke about it publicly. He's taking full credit for it.

That is what they wanted because so now Trump is on the line. What that's worth, we'll find out. Yeah. So I got a question for you, Ryan. Go for it, Crystal. Oh, it's fine. I was just going to say, I mean, to your point, it's not about Trump being a trustworthy character. It's about the reality of the situation, the power dynamics, the fact that he is literally the only person in the world that can actually tell Israel and enforce Israel stopping the genocide.

So you have no choice but to hope that he follows through on the deal. And, you know, Jeremy laid out like there's some, I mean, it's disgusting, right, but that there's some sort of like business dollars and cents logic for a, I think he, you know, Gazelago is still the goal in the dream. Yeah. You know, we should probably play Candace Owens talking about how disgusting that is because she hit the nail on the head with it. But that is effectively what they're relying on. And not just in terms of Gazalago, but also, you know, he has all these desires and business development deals with the Gulf Arab states in particular. And so he doesn't want to piss them off. You know, I don't know if that's realistic. They're so compliant and so like focused on the money, too, that they, you know, they don't actually care about the Palestinians. All the pressure comes from below with regard to them. So I don't know how, you know, how much screwing up this deal would really hinder his business ambitions in the region, but perhaps there's a perception there. Well, I think that's where they strike in Doha actually played an interesting role. Because I think that the Emirates and the Saudis and the Qataris all called up Kushner

and Trump. And we're like, hey, hey, guys, like, all your money is over here. Like, they're bombing your money now. And Trump's like, oh, yeah, they kind of are bombing my money. We can't have that because you don't know how this spirals. And also their economies, such as you can even call them economies, are built on this international, you know, business, these international business relationships,

which are based on the idea that they are not Syria. And they're not Iraq. Like that is a perfectly safe place. So to have, you know, smoke blooms rising from their downtown, right next to like the Chinese embassy is not good for business. Down the street from the school that Sager went to, the American school.

That is bad for business. Yes. Griffin, go ahead. Dohaas, Sager. So, Ryan, for people who haven't been paying attention to all the ins and outs of this deal, where does this leave Hamas in terms of leadership or in terms of being in charge of Gaza?

because I have a clip here I want to play for you to react to from an Israeli ambassador that seems to suggest something slightly different than the deal that was just signed. Why don't we take a listen? You mentioned earlier you see this deal as leading toward the destruction of Hamas. Tell me more about that, because Hamas has not agreed to disarm. They've not agreed to leave Gaza, as Israel has insisted in the past. The agreement, the 20-point plan is very clear on the disarming of Hamas. And it's also very clear that if they do not disarm,

that we're going to go back into military confrontation. They have to disarm. Hamas cannot remain standing in Gaza. That's the plan, and that's what has to be implemented. This plan is basically ensconced with the government's directives for completing this war. And that's the disarming of Hamas and the demilitarization of Gaza. If that doesn't happen, then this peace plan is not going anywhere. So the peace plan is not going anywhere unless Hamas de-militarizes, de-arms.

Now, is that part of the deal? Brian, break that down for us. It was part of the 20-point plan. It was, but Hamas did not accept the 20-point plan. Hamas accepted the first part of it and then said that they looked forward to discussing, you know, what a future, you know, Palestinian run technocratic administration would look like. And they have said we will relinquish power to a technocratic committee

made up of Palestinian experts. But they have basically said they wouldn't disarm until there's a state in place. And then they would disarm as part of that evolution into statehood. So yet this remains the thing that is outstanding. So if Israel believes that it's going to have the ability from,

you know, we geopolitically and to cover from the United States to get the hostages back and then go in and saying that they're doing it because they need to disarm Hamas, which again, a lot of their weapons are unexploded ordinance. And it'll take 20 years to get all the unexploded ordinance out of there. So I don't quite see how they physically, literally can disarm if those are the weapons we're talking about.

So, yeah, but that's where the, to Emily's point about the truth. drip wires. Like, that's a pretty big, that's a pretty big gulf. And, you know, will Trump sign off on restarting the war for that aim with no hostages left? Well, I guess we're going to find out. Yeah, indeed. I just, on a curiosity, because I noticed that guy that we were just listening to the Israeli ambassador to the U.S. seemed to have American accent. He is indeed from Scranton, Pennsylvania. And not only that, according to Horat's, was, was affiliated with that rabbi Kahane, who was, you know, was this incredible extremist who thought that any non-Jewish, any non-Jewish person in Israel should either be deported or serve as a slave. So, you know, just to give you a sense of the type of characters that are in this government and what their ideology are.

Yeah, he's, you know, moderate compared to some who are in the coalition, ultimately, I guess. he thinks they should just be deported, not actively murdered, so. And Ryan, after you're reporting this week in DropSight about a certain ghostwriter for an Israeli ambassador, is this one of the ambassadors that's getting some ghostwriting done by our friend Douglas Murray? We don't have any evidence of that. The guy whose speeches they were writing is now the Israeli ambassador to Germany, actually, which is a pretty plumb posting. Yeah.

Well, Crystal also flagged this, that, you know, we've gone through two years of this Israeli Gaza genocide. But there's been some reveals about some of the 3D modeling that's been occurring over these last two years. Of course, everyone remembers the famous 3D rendering of the Al-Shefa Hospital. Was that the one that they did the breakdown of? And so I wanted to put this up on screen for a second. some of these elements here. So it looks like, I mean, Crystal, can you explain what we're seeing here? Yeah, so basically the idea is that they did this analysis and tracked a bunch of these

images that they used to claim, you know, whether it was tunnel systems or to show their targeting, et cetera, they tracked it back to this one guy and, you know, elements reused, very, it looks very video game, but basically just exposing the level of factual. abrogated propaganda that was going on here. And in the specific case of the El Shifa Hospital, I'm sure you guys remember, this was early in the genocide when they still felt the need to justify their attacks on hospitals. And we're subjected to this, you know, 3D modeling of this elaborate layer that was supposedly under the hospital where Hamas's headquarters was located, et cetera, came in for a lot of mockery at the time. Well, turns out they had actually recycled some previous propaganda of an alleged Hamas' tunnel underneath of a UN school, they just pulled that and repurposed it to be like, no, actually, the Hamas layer is under the hospital now. So I just, even for us, people who have been very skeptical to say the least of Israeli government claims and, you know, very attuned to the amount of Haspar and the amount of, you know, money that spent to pay influencers and all of that that's

been revealed, I think even to me, it is stunning the amount and the scope and the brazenness of the lies in the propaganda that we have been fed, not just over these two years, but long before that, by the way. Yeah, really impressive reporting here. Absolutely, yeah. One point that the person who broke this down made is that it's intentionally done to amplify media coverage

because the strategy is to say, if you give the media a visual, it will end up more likely covered on the news. news because they have something they can visually show people. They can pull an element, yeah. Right. They can pull an element. They can D4.

Yeah, they're right. Yeah, but the person who reported this out had examples of that having worked pretty effectively. All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of the murder. of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved, until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know.

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Jason versus Freddie. Michael Myers versus the 80 thing with the little tongue muster. October, we're doing it. a Halloween style. Listen to the Travener's podcast from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So, you know, Trump is celebrating.

He's excited for his Nobel Peace Prize. But then plot twist, someone else got the Nobel this morning. Ryan, can you explain who this person is that brought all this piece together? For those just listening in the podcast, I'm throwing up an image here. The 2025 Nobel Peace Rights would order to Maria Carino Machado for her tireless work promoting democratic rights for the people of Venezuela and for her struggle to achieve a just and peaceful transition from dictatorship to democracy. Yeah, her effort to bring democracy to Venezuela involved being a leader of the 2002 coup and then signing a decree. to dissolve basically the Constitution. That coup was short-lived, and Chavez came back to power.

And since then, you know, she's been an opposition leader. She was banned from running for president because of her involvement in this coup and in other irregularities in the way that. And basically being allied with the United States and trying to overthrow the Venezuelan government, She, you know, celebrated, you know, Trump's coup attempts in his first term. She has celebrated his bombing of the narco boats or the fishing boats, whatever they are. She has urged the sanctions that have, you know, crushed Venezuela. She has even asked Benjamin Netanyahu to please come liberate Venezuela.

Netanyahu is not taking them up on that request yet. but that's that's who she is. So just kind of an incredible decision by the Nobel. B's Prize Committee, it's like, I guess the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation wasn't available because they were ousted as part of this ceasefire deal. I will say, I forget why I had occasion to do this. I went through the election certifications for the last, when Machado was on the ballot,

time. Imagine one of the reasons she got this is because there's a pretty decent case that she actually won. It's very, very hard to know because of all the irregularities. But I think there's a pretty... Well, they kicked her off the ballot. Her proxy. Her party, her proxy. Yes. Yes, it does, it does appear like Maduro rigged that election. And the reason we're stopping to steal. Yeah. Well, interestingly, the reason that that Emily can look into it and be pretty confident that he did rig it is that Chavez himself put in place these kind of very transparent systems that everybody can check. So you can check it at the local and the regional level and match it against what's being said nationally. And because of those Chavez reforms, you can actually see like, oh, yeah, it does look like the opposition party probably did win this election and Maduro stole it.

Right, or like they're not even cooperating with those systems and it's like, oh, that's interesting. Yeah, they just, yeah, they, yes. So maybe that's, but. But they also did. They were able to track because of the system. Actually, yeah, Ryan, that's exactly like because of that system, they were able to see what the tallies were in certain areas and all of that. And it looks like he probably lost. Yeah.

Yes. And so he's clear. But the Nobel Peace Prize, I mean, I don't think any of us take it particularly seriously. I just reported out a whole story on it. It's like maybe not worth dwelling too. long on, but Trump is, like, so desperate for a Nobel Peace Prize and at the same time, so obviously aware he's not going to get a Nobel Peace Prize. I don't know. I feel like giving it to her is a signal from the committee that they're open to giving it to Trump because this is,

like if you're going to give it to an American president's coup plotter, like, why wouldn't you give it to the American president, too? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he can definitely can definitely claim a piece of that prize, even if he didn't get the whole thing this time. That's true. Well, I was talking to, like, Nobel historians who were like, they just see it, because this is in Norwegian, like, they see it as so uncouth for anybody to campaign for themselves to get the Nobel Peace Prize. So it's not even like, the people I talked to was like, it wouldn't even be ideological.

It's just this idea that, like, he's out there begging for it. And people are like, well, that's a story. Wasn't this part of, you guys got a refresh my memory. Wasn't this part of why Bill Gates maintained his relationship with Epissey? because Epstein was telling him like he could get him the Nobel Prize. Wasn't that part of what we found out? Oh, my God, really?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, it sounds right. And reading through Epstein's emails and such, it wouldn't be hard to believe that he would have that kind of pull. But he knew everybody. And Googleing. And he was able to make things happen.

We're going to start our own Peace Award that's going to start to be a competitor with a new list of candidates. Who deserves the Peace Award, now, Ryan? I mean, I would think, like, doctors in Gaza, like doctors and nurses in Gaza, like the abs or the civil defense, like the people who knowing that there's going to be a double-tap strike still rush to the building to pull people out of it, like that those are the best,

that's the best of humanity under the worst conditions, selflessly putting your, your body on the line to help others that you don't know. You know, that, that should be what the Nobel Peace Prize is for. Yeah. Um, do you want to move to Chicago? Well, I was going to say, Crystal, I think you're, it sounds like your memory is correct. That is, uh, that's actually what happened. I thought so.

Yeah. Yeah. I remember Saga and I talking about that one. Wild. All right. Well, just every, every aspect of that is wild. Uh, moving on to Chicago. Christy Gnome is doubling down and looking to get more office space here in Chicago.

Let's take a listen. We're purchasing more buildings in Chicago to operate out of. We're going to not back off. In fact, we're doubling down and we're going to be in more parts of Chicago in response to the people there. And then I was there a few days ago and looked at some facilities that we can deploy more law enforcement out of. Because what they're trying to do with these riots and violence is distract us. as they keep us from going after those murderers and rapists that are out on the streets. And then I was in Portland, went out and back on 20.

All right. So more offices. We also do have a video here outside an elementary school that I wanted to play just here at the top. This was from a recent ice raid on an elementary school where they grabbed the mother out of the car as she's picking up her child. Just so people know as they're watching this, at least according to the reporting I saw this woman that you'll see here is a DACA recipient and they actually had to release her. So after she's there picking up to pick up her kids from elementary school, something

a lineup many of us will be familiar with. And they follow her. They forcibly pull her out of the car. She's screaming, again, right outside of this elementary school where her children and other children are. And according to what I saw, like I said, she had legal status. So they ended up having to release her. So all of this, you know, show of force with these dudes, most of them, again, masked up, et cetera, and terrorizing an entire elementary school population for someone who, in the end, turns out, has legal status.

And by the way, is mom? Like, this is not some violent criminal gang member, Trenda, whatever. This is, like, a mom who's going about her life trying to pick up her kids from school. And I don't know what happened to those, you know, those kids when they're waiting for mom. And mom's just been snatched off the street by Trump's thugs. I think an important point in that, Crystal, is they purport to be targeting people with some measure of intelligence. And we've already seen that there's a surveillance apparatus. being built in order to target people.

And this is a just staggering, not shocking, but staggering display of incompetence. When you are building these, you're paying all of this money, taxpayer dollars to surveil, and you're picking up a DACA, someone who is here with legal status and doing it like this is just,

I know we're going to talk about this later, but they are squandering any, squandering certainly any, like, public opinion that was in their favor for sure at this point. And immigration officials, immigration attorneys that I've spoke to have said that this phenomenon of DACA people getting swept up is fairly widespread. And oftentimes, they don't get out very quickly. The administration is reinterpreting all, because immigration law is like extraordinarily complicated and based on, you know, decades of stitched together precedents. And you can be in deportation proceedings but still have legal status. And then, you know, the administration will say, well,

we reject this legal status. And it all goes back to these quotas that Stephen Miller has put into place. So they are basically just sweeping up as many brown people as they can. And then asking questions later and seeing, you know, who they can kind of make the deportation stick. and also who they can persuade to kind of give up the fight because you put them, you know, you put them in these like deplorable conditions and you can end your suffering at any minute by saying, okay, fine, I will go back to El Salvador, even though you have a legal status and you can stay here, but it could take you weeks or months or even years. They don't know. So a lot of people just give up in the face of that raw power. Yeah. And I think,

I mean, so I kind of reject the idea that it's incompetence because I, like, I think this is all part of the plan of, I mean, it genuinely is like a mass terror campaign to scare people into either leaving or to chill dissent. I mean, we have increasing numbers of American citizens who have been either injured or illegally detained, arrested by ICE held without the ability to make phone calls for hours, if not days at a time. Of course, we saw the apartment raid. It doesn't surprise me that Christy Noem is saying, we're going to double down on Chicago because, in my view, what they're also courting is some grand confrontation that they can use in order to justify Trump invoking the Insurrection Act. And there's reporting to that regard. Yeah, I think that's true. They've gotten, and they've gotten more, you know, the community in Chicago is very upset. And so you have a lot of activists who are, you know, following ICE around and honking horns to let immigrants know that they're coming. You know, the atmosphere appears, I'm not there on the ground, but appears to be somewhat charged. And so I think that they believe that Chicago is their

best bet with a Democratic mayor and a Democratic governor who may be a presidential contender to get this grand confrontation that they want to justify further consolidation of their power and, as I said, an invocation of the Insurrection Act, which would mean that they could deploy. national guard much more readily and that the National Guard that's deployed would not be subject to the limitations that they currently are. Namely, you know, in D.C. we saw National Guard was mostly like kind of assisting ICE to the extent that they're, you know, sort of even colorably able to, but also just like standing around and picking up trash. If you have the Insurrection Act, then you no longer have those same restrictions on what the National Guard can do. So I think that's, you know, part of what's

going on here. I covered, and I just think it's worth emphasizing. You've already had people, you had one person who was shot and killed, an immigrant who was shot and killed by federal agents in or around Chicago. And you had this other woman that I covered on the show who they claimed had rammed them with her car and then brandish a semi-automatic weapon. At least the semi-automatic weapon part of that has already turned out to be just a complete and utter fabrication. They shot her five Times, okay, American citizen, immigration activist, but American citizen, she, her lawyer now says that their body camera footage reveals they actually ran into her. The agent in question who shot her five times said, do something bitch and then jumped out of the car with his weapon and began firing. So we already, already we have incidents like this. And this is still very much in the early phases. One thing that is noteworthy and somewhat hopeful. If, I mean, if it's enforced, if it's not overturned on appeal, et cetera, there have been some significant limits put on the federal government in Chicago specifically, some court rulings that have come down. We just got one where they're saying, no, you can't, at least temporarily, for now it's a temporary restraining order. You cannot send the Texas National Guard. Mield Team 6 is not allowed to come into Chicago. They said, you know, basically like it's ridiculous. There's no insurrection. And the judge in their rule, said it on the conduit, like, it's the exact opposite of what you're saying.

Not only is there not chaos and insurrection sufficient to justify this, but you are the ones trying to stoke the chaos, which I think many reasonable people looking at the situation would agree with, especially after we know that in Portland, the government's, the federal government's own internal assessment said that those protests were quote unquote low energy before Trump came in and said, oh, war ravaged Portland and we got to send in the National Guard and we got to do all of this. there was also another decision that may lead to the release of hundreds of the immigrants that they've detained that says they're in violation, the federal government is in violation of a consent decree with regard to how they pick up these immigrants and the way that they're using widespread warrantless arrests of immigrants, which is illegal. And then you had also a decision that came down that was related to their indiscriminate use of chemical weapons,

We all saw the priests who got shot in the head with a pepper ball or pastor or, you know, religious figure. I'm not sure what his exact designation was. And we've also seen reports about them pepper spray. They pepper sprayed the freaking Chicago police department. They pepper sprayed outside of an elementary school so the kids couldn't go outside for recess. You know, we've seen activists, journalists, anyone who's just there like recording getting sprayed directly in the face. And so there was also a decision that came down that was like, you can't do that. You can't just spray, you know, journalists and activists.

you're violating their First Amendment rights by using these riot control weapons in such a widespread and careless manner. Well, and I just want to say the, because I don't disagree that what you just laid out, there's a broader effort to chill the, like, any migrants who may be here to encourage what they call like self-deportation.

Like, I don't disagree with that. The incompetence, to me, reminds me a lot of, the reason I invoke that description is because it reminds me of what happened with Mammu Khalil and Ramesa Azturk where they're relying on like what Canary Mission and they get these like lists of

people who are apparently giving material support to terrorists and then just to, in Chicago it may be literal, but metaphorically shoot first, ask questions later and I do think that's strategic. I think they're sort of like that's their strategy. I just think that strategy

is like politically, morally ridiculous. And so that's where the incompetence came. Like, that's where I was using that description because it's like, I'm saying this as a conservative. Again, I know we're going to talk about this, but like I'm watching all of this happen. And I'm like, they think they have this mandate. They think they have the wind at their back,

all of this political capital. And they don't because what they're doing is absurd. And so it's just like, it's so stupid all around. I think that leads nicely to this next clip where it seems like, yeah, most people are kind of aware of what the government is trying to do with all this. Let's take a listen to our favorite. I guess he's a priest now. Did he convert? Are you all seeing this? I was wondering what is going on with that too. Yeah. Is he doing a Russell Brand moment here? We'll have to see. We'll have to look into that later. But let's take a listen to Rogan here on these ice threats. Let's just talk about the immigration thing. The way it looks is horrific. When you're a, are just arresting people in front of their kids and just normal, regular people that have been here for 20 years.

That, everybody who has a heart can't get along with that. No. Everybody who has a heart sees that and go, that can't be right. They can't be right. They can't be the only way to do this. Right. Because you have to think, look, yeah,

we have to have a border. Yes, it should have been secure. Yes, they should make sure you know who everybody is before they get in. Yeah. But when people have been here for 20 years, Like, come on, man. That's crazy.

Let's find a way, if they've been productive members of society for 20 years, no criminal record, they worked the entire time, they paid taxes, find them a pathway to citizenship. Find a way where you can do this thing that you want to do, which is keep terrorists and cartel members from getting across the border with drugs to kill 100,000 people a year. Okay, but also have a fucking heart. because if you don't, you're not going to get anybody on your side. If you're doing this stuff publicly, throwing women to the ground, handcuffing people, just for existing on the wrong side of the dirt. Yeah. Not a criminal.

The only crime they ever committed was coming over here as a kid. Yeah. They probably didn't even know what the fuck was going on. Yeah. Yeah, man. You know, a lot of kids got snuck across when they were already born in Mexico. And they've grown up their entire life in America. They can't even speak Spanish.

Well, I mean, part of the, that is rich dude wants to pass the citizenship for millions and millions of people, but I will set that aside and say that is a perception that most average Normie Americans are going to have, and they're not wrong to have that perception either. And Zach Bryan, I think we have this, who he's been on Rogan, I think. He's like, just, again, Normie veteran, super popular with young, like, white dudes. I like Zach Brian. I think he's pretty good.

And he has this new snippet of a song. He previewed one of his new songs, and it's about, like, ice banging down your door. And John Rich, from Big and Rich, called for him to be Dixie Chicksed and said, like, Bud Light should sponsor his tour or something like that. It's just like, again, there's always this. I saw someone say, you know, what a shock that liberals are getting beer, country music, and football in the national divorce. Yeah, it's so funny. But this is the thing. There's, the right was always criticizing the left.

for being in bubbles. And I think we all know that that's true. But now the right has the reins of power. And they're putting themselves, they're ensconcing themselves in this thick bubble now, too, by saying anybody who disagrees with us is a lib. Anybody who disagrees with us is basically like pro-comola. And that just means you tune out all of the like just well-intentioned feedback that you're getting when people see clips, like the one that we just played on the show. And you have influencers following Christy Noam around acting like this is some generational political genius. Like this entire master plan is some generational political, historic stroke of genius. And they're just isolating themselves from like normie people who are looking at this and being like, this is not.

Of course, there are some people who say this is exactly what I voted for, but that's definitely not most of the country. And so they're isolated, I think, from all of that. Let me read this lyric for a sec, from Zach Bryan, one of the biggest musicians on the planet. It says, his lyric is, I heard the cops came. Cocky MFs, ain't they? Ice is going to come bust down your door. Try and build a house. No one builds no more.

But I got a telephone. Kids are all scared and all alone. Then a response from the DHS, stick to pink skies, dude, says Department of Homeland Security Assistant Secretary Trisha McLaughlin in a response. so yeah I hate these people so much it does it does feel like they're pushing it too far like yeah

well and Ryan I want to ask you that I actually want to ask both of you guys this all three of you this because Saga and I have been like having a little bit of a debate about whether they think this is they genuinely believe this is politically advantageous

for them or whether they don't care because they're not that interested in whether they're going to have to face voters and they don't think it's going to be that consequential whether they have to face voters. I did note Dominion voting got sold to some like Republicans stop the steel apparatchic. So that's a little ominous. Got to look into that more to find out what that means. But I mean, that is my, that is my concern is that as much as they are in a bubble and I think they are in a bubble, that they, it's not, they're not doing these things because they think they're popular. They're doing it because they want a one-party state. They're

doing it because they're really going for it and trying to consolidate power so that future elections are more or less meaningless. Now, Sager disagrees with that. He thinks they genuinely believe that this is like based in popular and that this is a good political trajectory for them. So I'm curious what you guys, you know, what you guys' thoughts are on that. I'll just say super quickly I agree with Saga. Like, we obviously know some of the players in this personally, and they didn't, my take on this is, like, pretty firmly. They genuinely think that this is popular.

Now, there may be some people in the mix, like Stephen Miller, who I don't really know personally, who maybe it's a combination of both. Like, they think it's super popular and based, and they also don't care if it's not. But a lot of them, like, genuinely think that this is the will of the American people and that normal people see these videos and are like, hey, had to happen at some point. Too bad. All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved,

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This is Snacks from the TrapNurz podcast, and we're bringing you the horror every week all October long. Kicking off this month, I'll be bringing you all my greatest fear-inducing horror games from Resident Evil to Silent Hill. Me and Tony Bringing Back Fire Team on Left for Dead 2. And we're just going to be going over some of the greats. Also in October, we'll be talking about our favorite horror and Halloween movie. And figure out why black people always got to die first. The Umbro Reliquary invites any and all fooling, brave enough, to peruse its many curiosities. but take it all sales are final weekly horror side quests written and narrated by yours truly with a full episode read and a commentary special and we will cap it off with horror movie battle royale jason versus freddie michael myers versus the aided thing with the little tongue muster

october we're doing it halloween style listen to the trap nurse podcast from the black effect podcast network on the i heart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast yeah my my take I'm curious if this accords with what Emily thinks. That Stephen Miller is a hardcore ideologue. Like he has a worldview. He has the power. He has the time in power. And he's going to execute it. And he's also like a disturbingly young guy.

Like he's going to be around for a very, very long time. And who knows if he ends up staffing like every coming Republican administration. but that he thinks that he can basically create new realities by reshaping the country and that old ideas about, you know, how this particular issue polls week to week or will be out the window because he's so thoroughly revolutionizing what's happening inside the United States. And it's driven by this like end goal ideology that is as extreme as anything. What is that end goal ideology?

What are the realities that he thinks? he's changing. Well, as Trump, as Trump said it, he said if Stephen Miller had his way, there'd be 100 million people in this country and they'd all look like Stephen Miller. Like that's, that's what Donald Trump said about Stephen Miller. This 100 million number has been coming up a lot in memes lately. The Department of Homeland Security has been doing these like fan cams where they're like these edits where it's like America, if there was only a hundred million people in it and it's, and it's just all white people frolicking around. They like use. old, like, 90s TV.

Yeah, they use like old 90s TV shows where the cast is all white and stuff. It's like, oh, like every show will be like friends again. Or it's just white people. I don't know. That, that's, this hundred million number is starting to really come up. Yeah. I mean, they, they started in 2024. I'm sorry, when they came into office in 2025, the Biden administration had just brought in what, like, eight to 10 million people.

in the period of three years, who had precarious legal situations. Some of them, and this is like the health care debate with the shutdown, some of them are perfectly here legally because Biden expanded the pathways. And that's true of many, many people. Some of them are here illegally without documentation. And so they did have this like big, and most of the country wanted some solution to this precarity, mass precarity among all of these migrants. They wanted the border closed. The Trump administration has basically closed the border. But they took that and have now said it's like permission to expand this police state and to like militarize the operation in what like Elgin, Illinois, as I think we talked about last week as a suburb of Chicago. And these are very,

very different things, not just politically, but also morally. And the idea that they have permission to, like, do helicopter immigration enforcement, again, politically and morally an Elgin. It's just, I mean, like, and to detain American citizens, all these are, they're very, very different things. And they don't seem to, I think they genuinely are not aware of that because they've put themselves in this, like, trench mentality, where it's like, you're with us or you're against us completely. And you're with the, the Trindeiragua cartel. It's just, yeah. Anyway. Well, and I think Ryan's point is an important one because there may be people in the Trump administration that think this is politically beneficial. And then, but the person who really matters the most, I would say, at this point, is actually Stephen Miller because he certainly seems to be running the show. And so, you know, my sense is the same as Ryan's that, and I don't think anyone would disagree. This is a diehard ideologue who does not believe in America as a diverse society. He doesn't believe in the idea of a military. He believes in a white ethnic, a blood and soil, white ethno state. And he wants to make it so that the people he doesn't count as American don't get to have a say in the future of the country. So whether that's, you know, through, you know, the terror campaign that, you know, both effectuates deportations, but also effectuates a mass exit of people who no longer feel comfortable in this country. Because remember, we now have the Supreme Court says, hey, you can do Kavanaugh,

you're allowed to just harass people because they're brown and at a car wash it or whatever. So that plus, and Griffin, maybe you can pull this about the latest, you know, reporting on NSPM 7 and the way they're going after Act Blue and, you know, anything linked to George Soros whatsoever, indivisible and pretending these are part of some like Antifa terror network and targeting them through the FBI, through the IRS, through the whole of government. So his idea is basically the people who oppose me and the, you know, black and brown people that I don't consider to be quote unquote real Americans, we're going to make it so they don't really have a say. So they don't really count in the future. And, you know, all of these escalatory steps, which are intentionally provocative, which every time you see these raids, they got camera guys falling behind so they can publish them so they can further inflame and advertise their, you know, fascist tactics so that. every time they do that, they are courting this broader confrontation that will allow them to grab even more power. And I just don't think it's deniable at this point that that's the plan because they're already well along the plan. I mean, they practically announce it out loud. So that's what we're in the midst of. And what I struggle with is is articulating both the grave seriousness of that where he truly, you know, we are already in a different country than we were before Trump 2.0 came. into office. Like, we'd been sliding in this direction, but now we are in a different country than we were previously. That is a very grave situation. And then also a bunch of these people are like utterly clownish buffoons. You know, the National Guard meal team six is like a

perfect example of this or, you know, RFK up there like, oh, you know, circumcision and Tylenol and autism or whatever. So it's, it can be hard to wrap your head around people who are idiots and clowns, but who also are ideologues and are very effective. implementing an extreme and radical plan to turn this country into something that it was not previously. Yes, there's been a lot of crackdowns. Trump actually name check DSA as one of the groups that he is going to be looking to as well. And yet it does seem like they are trying to define what Antifa means and who Antifa is still, which I think leads us perfectly to our final segment we wanted to get on the public half here. We should, I was going to say, we should get some, like, Julio or Andy No to come on and debate Antifa. We'll set something like that up.

Let's get it. That sounds like an after-party booking. I love it. Let's do it. Let's get them on here. All right. Well, I think this leads us perfectly to our last segment, really important to hear about Jesse Waters and Antifa. Yes.

Crystal, I'm going to pull this up if you can break it down. We have these images here. Do you have the guests? So he's accused. Jesse Waters of he likes to use these masked guests. And so we had one here. The most recent is like some Antifa guy. That's the one on top who looks remarkably similar to a previous mask guest who he had who was supposedly like a Mexican cartel member, something like that.

We've got ex-gang members. They're all just trying. Also looks remarkably similar to this guy on the bottom who, I don't know, was this guy supposed to be like Hamas or something like that? It's like it's always sunny. The gang goes jihad. That's what this looks like. That bottom one, it looks like almost like a filter, not even like real things. Anyway, people are noticing that this character appears to be the same character.

If you listen to them, they sound similar. They have the same mannerisms. People are speculating that it might be this, you know, this Robert O'Neill guy. I don't know if that's true. They actually denied it. Fox News did deny that it was Robert O'Neill. Nevertheless, it's certainly appear. No, it doesn't look like him to me, but.

Yeah, no, we're not claiming that. Oh, I really? I do think it looks like it. Crystal, we're not claiming it. We don't know. This is all, as far as we know on the record, these are all different guys. Let's take a quick listen to them. So recruiting, working with youth, getting, you know, and just going out, spitting out the message.

And the thing is to, you know, a lot of people get into it because. I kind of laugh when I saw two things. I saw that he had allegedly stated that. One of his motives or reasons was to support Black Lives Matter at... About ninth grade or so, get on a few years. Growing up in Seattle, we had the riots in 99. All right. So those are all the different gentlemen that Jesse has had on the show recently.

Anti-Vub people really call them riots. Don't tell me this doesn't look. Don't tell me. That looks similar. So Crystal, we have been doing. Yeah, I was able to get, I did a little bit of, you know, of investigative journalism here, guys. And I wanted to talk to someone who's known Jesse for a long time who could speak to his character and whether or not he would be the sort of person who would, you know, put the same guy on TV three times and three different pandas and claim he was totally different people. and, you know, try to sell this to the public.

So I was able to go ahead, Emily. You pre-taped this, and Ryan and I have not, we have not seen this. Yeah, you told us about it. We're excited. Yeah. Yeah. So let's go ahead, Griffin, if you can, pull up this interview, I was able to get with Jesse Waters Frat Brother, who also happens now very relevantly to be the Grand Dragon of the Antifa Global Jihad Network and also serves as Gavin Newsom's comms, So a lot that he brings to the table here, quite a noteworthy guest. Griffin, if you could go ahead and play this. Joining us now, we have Jesse Waters, former Frat Brother. He now serves as Grand Dragon for the Antifa Global Jihad Network and also as Gavin Newsom's Coms Director. From an undisclosed location for the purposes of this interview, we'll call you, let's say, Lyle. Welcome to the show, Lyle. Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, of course. Anything you could tell us.

about Jesse, his character, what he was like when you knew him in college? Yeah, he was a terrible guy. Chronic liar smelled really bad. He's smug, full of himself. Me and him actually played Division I Bocci ball together, and the team had a nickname for him. We called him Tadpole, because when we saw him in the shower, me and the guys were like, damn, that guy's hung like a tadpole.

Wow, that's a lot of information. That's maybe more than, than what I was really looking for. But I appreciate that the disclosure, anything that stood out to you about him, anything that was like odd or weird that he did in college that might inform our understanding

of who he is today? Well, I mean, there was that time he cheated on his girlfriend with Bill O'Reilly. That's how he got the spot on the O'Reilly show. They used to rub falafels all over each other. O'Reilly was into that. I've heard that, actually, before. I had heard something about that previously.

So that does add up with some of the information that's already publicly on the record. I guess my final question for you, Lyle, is just, what do you think of this new scandal that he's embroiled in? He stands accused of having phony people come on the show, pretend to be people that they are not whatsoever. You know, what do you think of the type of person who would do such a thing? I mean, that's, it's disgusting, frankly. I mean, I think it should probably, it should be at least a misdemeanor. It should probably be a felony if you asked me. I think probably at least 20 years in prison

if you do something like that. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, pretty disgusting. I'd be disgusting. I'd all agree with that. All right. Well, thank you for that information, Lyle.

And good luck with the terror network. I hope you, hope you, you know, do well there, evade the authorities or whatever you're up to. Thanks, for us. Okay. I have to say as the producer, you know, I'm not a notice in any of this. I haven't fact checked any of this. this. Well, that was a very risky interview because there are not many comms people for Gavin Newsom. So I think that our viewers are probably going to be able to narrow down the

identity. Do not docks. Of that, do not docks. Because, you know, this is somebody who took a personal risk to come out and in the public interest to reveal what he knows. So, yeah, I would discourage people from doxing. His lived experience. Yeah. Yes. It was brave. I told Lyle. I told Lyle how brave it was of him to come forward in that way. I will.

I will reach out to him. And I noticed that you used a voice distortor. I noticed you used like an AI voice distortor to make him sound like somebody we're all familiar with. That was very clever. Just to throw people off, just to throw people off the scent, you know. But, you know, the broader point is that it is important for responsible journalists to vet their sources and to vet the people who are. are coming on the air to shed some light on these important questions about public affairs. And so that was, Crystal, I think that was excellent.

Maybe Nobel Peace Prizeworthy. I think Nobel. Yeah. Next year. I mean, I spent a lot of time with this individual before the interview. I can tell a lot, like an extraordinary amount of time with this individual before they. Do you let them run your children? So I certainly did my homework.

I mean, I would. Yeah, absolutely. I would, I trust him on that level. That's how, that's how, would you let him share your streaming equipment? Do you think you would let him share your streaming equipment? Like, would you ever share, like, a microphone? I'll have to say is he has beautiful eyes. He actually made, share my streaming equipment later.

He is a, he is a striking, beautiful eyes. And I did reach out to Jesse Waters, a request for comment on the tadpole issue. They responded saying that he is a grower, not a shower. So I think in general, we're. so I just wanted to say we covered all of our bases here but again if there are lawsuits I was not involved with this segment this is a family show

anyways thank you to the Grand Dragon Gavin Newsom watch out you can't be this affiliated with these types of characters it's true yeah good advice good advice beautiful beautiful journalism well done all around on that note after that Pulitzer winning piece of journalism we're going to move on to the second half of the show where we'll be doing other other segments with the Grand Dragon so breaking points.com if you want to see that if you want to be able to if you want to support our journalism if you want to if you want to support more interviews like that breaking points dot com we can do that once a week if we want to yeah that guy's available that's right Ryan's not the only one out here with sources You know, doing hard.

Legal protection for Lyles. Okay. And we'll see you all in that second half in just a second. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good. people in small towns. Listen to Graves County

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