Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 10/16/23: Water Runs Dry In Gaza As Hospitals Collapse, Biden Bumbles 60 Minutes, Arab States Erupt, Focus Group Debates Israel, Candace and Megyn Cancel Culture, Israelis Blame Bibi, MSNBC Benches Muslims, Reuters Journalist Killed By Israeli Strike

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

Krystal and Saagar discuss the Israel Gaza humanitarian criss deepening as water runs out and hospitals collapse, Biden bumbling in a 60 minutes interview on America’s involvement, Arab states erupting, our newest Breaking Points focus group where we ask Democratic voters about the situation on Israel-Gaza, Europeans criminalizing Palestinian protests, Candace Owens fights Megyn Kelly over Israel cancel culture, polls show Israelis blame Bibi for security failure, MSNBC benches their Muslim anchors after ADL comments, and Reuters can’t admit their own journalist was killed by an Israeli strike.To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.supercast.com/Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Crystal? Indeed, we do. Of course, we have you covered again from all angles of what is unfolding in Israel and in Gaza. There are some huge developments this morning, so we'll take you on the ground in Gaza. We'll also talk to you about the U.S. response, which continues to take shape. Potential visit by President Biden in the works to Israel. So we've got all of that for you. The geopolitics. Could this spark a broader war? Something we are all, of course, fearful of. We're also excited to be able to bring you some results from our own focus group. We did ask participants, these were Democratic-based voters outside in and around Atlanta, about this conflict and how they are viewing it, what type of news they're

consuming, how they view Hamas, how they view Gaza, how they view the Palestinians, how they view Israel, what they think we should be doing in response. Really interesting stuff. And of course, it's always invaluable to hear from the American people themselves about how they view Israel, what they think we should be doing in response. Really interesting stuff. And of course, it's always invaluable to hear from the American people themselves about how they are processing all of this. We also wanted to zoom out and take a look at some of the overwhelming state-backed censorship that is occurring on this issue. We'll give you some really striking examples of this as protests have been sparked literally around the globe. We're going to take a look at how Israelis are processing this and how they feel about their government. We've got some new polling there as well.

And we've also got some news for you with regard to how our own media is handling this conflict and who they are allowing on air and who they are allowing to voice their view and who they are not. So a lot to get into this morning. But let's go ahead and start with what we've got on the ground in Gaza this morning. Let's go ahead and put some of these images up on the screen. Of course, the Israeli bombardment of Gaza, in particular northern Gaza, continues. These are images of the rubble at this point in Gaza City. Of course, they have issued evacuation orders for the more than one million residents of northern Gaza, pushing them south as that complete siege conditions continue. No food,

no water, no electricity. And one of the big concerns this morning, as you see this baby who is on an incubator and this director of the main hospital in Gaza is that that main hospital is actually in the evacuation zone. It is already overwhelmed based on the number of wounded who have been struck and severely injured in these strikes from Israel. And what you could see there is footage of people who are laid out on the floor because there are already not sufficient beds. The leadership of that hospital saying there is no way we can evacuate. There is no way we can move all of these severely wounded individuals. You can see people being brought into the hospitals here. So, you know, thousands of people who depend on that hospital.

You can already see the mass grave there that is being dug and filled in based on, again, this is in Gaza, the people who have been killed by Israeli strikes. And this is before we even consider any sort of ground invasion, which hasn't occurred. We're now looking at images out of Israel. This is courtesy of 60 Minutes. This is the fallout from the horrific carnage that was inflicted on many Israeli civilians. You can see here footage from that music festival bodies laid out. I know these images are incredibly disturbing, and we're going to get to this later. These are some of the protests that have been sparked around the world. In addition, Sagar, one of the things I was looking at this morning is there's

been this conversation about allowing aid convoys in, opening up the Egyptian border so there could be some sort of a humanitarian corridor established. Those negotiations, both sides, different stories about what's going on there. But the bottom line is there is no humanitarian corridor. That border has not been opened. And diplomatic officials are saying the reason that Egypt hasn't allowed those aid convoys in that they have massed at the border is because, number one, Israel already struck that border crossing. And number two, Israel will not promise to not strike those aid convoys coming in as well. So the situation is incredibly dire on a humanitarian front. And as I said, this is before we even get into any sort of ground invasion, which is what Israel is threatening.

Yeah, that's right. The Israelis say that they're not allowing for proper security screening of said aid convoys. And this has, of course, now become the focal point of U.S. policy of really global energy as the entire world focuses on what's happening in Gaza. And the National Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan, actually announced yesterday that water would be turned on back in southern Gaza, outside of the evacuation zone. Here's what he had to say. Take a listen to what Secretary Blinken said last year when Putin was targeting Ukrainian infrastructure. Heat, water, electricity, for children, for the elderly, for the sick.

These are President Putin's new targets. He's hitting them hard. This brutalization of Ukraine's people is barbaric. Now look, Israel is not Russia. Gaza is not Ukraine. It's a different situation. But cutting off supplies, cutting off heat, cutting off water to civilians, what's the difference? Well, first, thank you for saying that Israel is not Russia because Israel is not Russia. But civilians are civilians, Jake. Civilians are civilians. is not Russia because Israel is not Russia. Second, as I said before, we are in constant contact. Yes, absolutely they are. And they deserve, as I said before, access to water and medicine and food. And we are working actively to ensure that that happens. And I can tell you

this morning, Jake, that I have been in touch with my Israeli counterparts just within the last hour who report to me that they have in in fact, turned the water pipe back on in southern Gaza. That has been the subject of discussion over the course of the past few days. The United States is going to continue working with Israel, with the UN, with Egypt, with Jordan, and with a lot of the groups on the ground to make sure that innocent Palestinians get access to those basic necessities and are protected from bombardment because they deserve that right, the right to those necessities and the right to safety and security every bit as much as Ukrainian civilians do or civilians anywhere do.

And the United States hasn't made any bones about that. We're working hard on that. We're working to make sure that that is the case as this unfolds. And it's something that has been a high priority for President Biden, for Secretary Blinken, and for myself. That's a pretty big deal, though, for Jake Sullivan to be the one announcing it. And almost offhanded, to be honest, not though from Israeli officials or and hasn't yet really been confirmed all that much by Gaza officials. Yeah, I mean, they're paying all this lip service and Biden put out a tweet like,

oh, we've got to make sure innocent lives are protected. And, you know, I expect Israel will follow international law with regards to. They're already not. I mean, that's the thing that drives me crazy is they're pretending like they haven't already clearly violated international law and committed war crimes here when it's unfolding in front of our eyes. Good for Jake Taffer for asking this question. This is something you and I have been tracking. We may talk more about this yesterday because you have all of this video of Antony Blinken and the head of the EU and all of these people,

Zelensky, talking about what a war crime it is for Russia to be turning off electricity and messing with civilian infrastructure during a time of war. Suddenly, when it's Israel, it's like, well, it's different for reasons. But specifically with regard to this idea that, oh, they turned back on the water pipe. That's not really how things work. And also, if you don't have electricity, then you can't pump that water and it's not actually doing anyone any good. So a reporter on Al Jazeera who explained some of the logistics and mechanics of this. Let's

take a listen to that. Also, the blackout of electricity inside Gaza is a main factor that even providing water to the Gaza Strip won't be enough simply because without electricity, Gazans won't be able to fill the water tanks. So with the ongoing blackout of electricity inside Gaza, the humanitarian crisis inside the Gaza Strip will continue and will deteriorate more. So in the best of times, the infrastructure in Gaza is incredibly compromised. And in the best of times under the current, you know, typical Israeli blockade, you have the majority of the citizens without access to clean water. So now when you have no electricity, you have no ability to pump that water. The one

power plant that does exist in Gaza has already run out of fuel. Hospitals having to rely on a generator. I mean, it is an incredibly dire situation. Again, you're talking about 2.2 million people. You're talking about a densely packed enclave. You're talking about nearly a majority of those individuals are children. Hundreds of children have been killed already in these assaults. Again, this is before the huge exodus. This is before the ground invasion potentially begins. So there is a lot to be concerned about here. With regard to Americans, because remember, there were a number of Americans who were killed by Hamas in those assaults. And we think some Americans who have been potentially taken hostage and a number who continue to be unaccounted for. Interesting development here.

I mean, horrible development here. Put this up on the screen. So as of yesterday, well, these are the overall casualty numbers. We've got 1,300 who were killed in Israel, over 3,000 who were wounded in Gaza. Now we have over 2,300 who've been killed and nearly 10,000 who have been wounded. With regard to the U.S., put this next piece up on the screen. They're now saying that 30 Americans have been killed. Yesterday, the count was 29. Now it's risen to 30. But this is interesting, Sagar. They'll no longer comment any further on the circumstances of the U.S. citizen deaths. Jeff Stein taking particular note of this. And the reason why this is significant is because remember, if you have Americans who are held hostage in Gaza right now, it could be the case that they are dying not at the hands directly of Hamas, although Hamas obviously

bears quite a lot of responsibility since they're the ones who freaking took them hostage. But when you have Israel mounting this overwhelming bombing campaign, dropping more bombs in Gaza than we dropped in Afghanistan over a number of years, some of those Americans could be getting killed right now by Israeli fire. And this is, we're going to talk about the Israel domestic political context. There you have the latest number I saw is potentially 200 hostages that were taken by Hamas. The families and a lot of supporters of the families very concerned about their lives and protecting them and seeing if they can be brought back, if there can be some sort of negotiations to bring them home.

So that's why it's so noteworthy that the U.S. government will no longer discuss the circumstances surrounding these American deaths. Yeah, I agree. And also it comes in the face of we also need to know how many American citizens are inside Gaza. The current number is somewhere around five or six hundred U.S. citizens. Breaking actually this morning, Crystal, is that the Rafah crossing in Egypt might be opening for a few hours at 9 a.m. time local for foreign nationals specifically to cross. It could come. This is

just from a White House spokesperson. Yeah. Well, we'll see because they said that before and it didn't happen. It didn't happen. Exactly. And so it's because there was also an insistence from Egypt's side. They said we'll only open the crossing for foreign nationals to come across as long as aid convoys are allowed to cross in. So could indicate this is just from a White House spokesperson minutes ago. They say they hope in order to open it. We'll see. We'll see. Everybody, you know, remain on standby. Overall, the situation remains dire, largely because so many people are unable to flee from the northern evacuation zone, approximately a million people. In the past, what we often observed in Syria,

whenever people were able to leave cities like Aleppo or others, it's really retirees. I mean, if you think back to Hurricane Katrina or any of the other times in which we have a major disaster here in which a lot of people flee, most of the time, the people who remain are unfortunately the old, the sick, the infirm who are unable to do so. And then sometimes, you know, also we've got people in the hospital system, as you said, which are overwhelmed. International organizations inside the hospital saying that they're unable to go because they not only have patients, but they don't have the existing infrastructure in the south. And that's all before we see what this coming invasion is going to look like into Gaza. The current

indication that we've seen from Israeli military plans that have been released is that they will have basically a full blown urban war against Hamas leadership, militants, and infrastructure. Hamas' extensive tunnel network all throughout Gaza and specifically northern Gaza. That's how they believe that many of the weapons and the people were able to cross in the first place, although their vaunted border security fence also literally just moved open with a piece of construction equipment. That seems to be an issue. Anyway, that appears to be what it is. For now, officials off the record are saying that occupation is, quote, not on the table, that that's not what they want to do, but we don't know. I mean,

you could technically say that we won't occupy something, but you could stay for six months to a year while you have clearing operations. At the very least, I mean, they are expecting significant amounts of Israeli casualties because this is probably going to be a bloody urban conflict, the likes of which the world has not seen in a long time. I mean, the Battle of Mosul is probably the most analogous from 2017, I believe, between the Iraqi security forces and ISIS. And that was an absolutely savage conflict. Like, not even block by block,

but city house by house fighting that occurred. And it was horrible for the civilian population also that was there. And the city really never recovered either. There are more and more 9-11 parallels here, both in the horror of the initial attack, the shock of the public, the way it changed their whole conception of safety and security and what it would take to feel like they and their families are going to be safe. But also, you know, the way we went into Iraq, which obviously was based on a pack of lies, but there was also no plan for the aftermath. And I'm looking at, you know, what Israel is planning here. You know, it's easy for them with all of their, you know, equipment and modern

weaponry supplied in part by us to come in and bomb the hell out of Gaza City. Like they're already doing that. That's easy, right? The ground invasion. I mean, I'm sure Hamas will put up whatever fight they can, but that also in a sense is easy for them. But it's easy to say we're going to take out all of Hamas's political and military leadership. But what then? What then? Is it just, you know, more Hamas come in to fill the void? Is there a separate government that's going to come in? Are you going to do nation building in Gaza?

Are you going to occupy Gaza and run it yourself? I haven't heard any answers to those questions. And those are very big questions. So it's a lot more complex than just coming in and bombing the hell out of the people who live here. You have to have some plan for what are you going to do next? Who is going to govern? How are you going to relate to those people who are governing? And clearly you've seen, even if you don't give a shit about the Palestinian people, if you care about your own people, you've seen the way that all of your

modern gadgets, tech, et cetera, can be thwarted by, you know, a few hundred dollar drones and a bulldozer. So what then? And, you know, you're also seeing a level of dehumanization, which is really abhorrent. The Israeli president, Herzog, he made some comments about how debunking, quote unquote, the idea that there are innocent civilians because his thinking is that, well, some of these Palestinians support Hamas. So, you know, they are basically complicit here. This is the same logic that Osama bin Laden used to justify 9-11. While the Americans elect these governments that do these awful things, this is the same type of logic that Hamas would use with regards to Israeli citizens. And does use. Exactly. Hey, they elected these governments. And you know what? When you're talking about America

and Israel, places that are basically democracies, there's actually more of a connection between the citizenry and the government than, you know, when was the last time there was election in Gaza? It was 17 years ago, I believe. Innocent civilians are innocent civilians. And you're seeing some of this, you know, horrible hate crime that appears to have unfolded in Chicago where a six-year-old Palestinian American child was stabbed to death by a landlord that they're investigating as a hate crime potentially because of his Palestinian and Muslim roots. So it is horrifically ugly what is unfolding right now. And there are many more questions than answers about where we go from here. The last piece of this with regard to Israel, go ahead and put this up on the screen. Human Rights Watch has confirmed that white phosphorus was used in Gaza and Lebanon. They say that it puts civilians at risk of serious and long-term injuries.

They verified videos that were taken in Lebanon and Gaza on October 10th and 11th. This was something that was a subject of a lot of speculation online because there were videos that appeared to show the use of white phosphorus. It can cause severe burns in people. It can set structures, fields, and other civilian objects in the vicinity on fire. The use of white phosphorus in Gaza, one of the most densely populated areas in the world, they say, magnifies the risk to civilians and violates international humanitarian law prohibition on putting civilians at unnecessary risk. Israel, though, adamantly denies the use, but the video evidence seems pretty clear. Yeah, white phosphorus munitions are specifically banned by international law specifically in populated areas by civilian populations.

And you can go and you can read about past US use of white phosphine emissions in Vietnam, where it really became famous. But really, we saw deployment of it by, I believe it was Syrian and Russians, you know, inside of the battle for Aleppo and all throughout Syria. And it was horrible what it inflicts really on the civilian population, which is what we're keeping an eye on. So look, it's all pretty nightmarish where we are right now. We've already got several thousand killed already on both sides and the invasion has not even begun. So with the invasion, you can really only expect things to go exponential, especially if we see an urban campaign combined with a air superiority that the Israelis have and their ability,

and then not even mentioning here the nightmare of a two-front war, which we'll get to in a little bit. Yeah, we're going to get to that. Let's focus in a little bit on the U.S. response. President Biden was on 60 Minutes and was asked about the possibility of setting up a humanitarian corridor to assist those in Gaza. Let's take a listen. Are you asking Israel to establish a humanitarian corridor in that area or get humanitarian supplies? Yes, our team is talking with them about that and whether there could be a safe zone. We're also talking with the Egyptians, whether there is an outlet to get these children and women out of that area at this moment.

But it's hard. You would like to see a humanitarian corridor that allows some of the two million Gazans out of the area? Yes. You would like to see humanitarian supplies brought into Gaza? Yes. So you do not agree with the Israeli total siege of the Gaza Strip? I'm confident that Israel is going to act under the major rules of war.

There are standards that democratic institutions and countries will go by. And so I'm confident that there's going to be an ability for the innocents in Gaza to be able to have access to medicine and food and water. Would you support Israeli occupation of Gaza at this point? I think it'd be a big mistake. Look, what happened in Gaza, in my view, is Hamas and the extreme elements of Hamas don't represent all the Palestinian people. And I think that it would be a mistake for Israel to occupy Gaza again. But to going in and taking out the extremists, the Hezbollah is up north, but Hamas down south is a necessary requirement. So he says he's confident they'll follow the rules of war. Of course, as I've already said, they're not. So I don't know why you would have that confidence. The thing that drives me crazy, I mean, it's interesting. He says, I think it'd be a big mistake if they occupied Gaza. Indications are that they

do not want to reoccupy Gaza. So we'll see what happens there. But you know what drives me crazy, Sagar, is this like feigned impotence, like, well, we want to, it's just really hard. Well, if you actually wanted to, the United States of America has tons of leverage in this situation. I mean, just like with Ukraine, when, oh, we would love it if they didn't strike in Russia. And we've asked them really nicely, but there's not any willingness to actually put the force of US policy carrots and sticks behind any of these words, which makes them completely empty and meaningless. Yeah, I think it's a huge problem. And it actually reflects also the bipartisan consensus here in Washington, which is really unable to think for the future. You laid out also as well

the Israeli side. So they're like, OK, we're going to destroy Hamas. Look, I support that. I think Hamas deserves to pay. But, you know, what about day two? We never had that plan in Iraq. That's right. They have to have the same plan in Gaza. And we tried occupying Iraq. Didn't work. We tried building a democratic system. That didn't work either.

It ended up backfiring spectacularly. We tried decapitating AQI, al-Qaeda in Iraq. We killed Zarqawi. Mission accomplished. Oops. Then we created ISIS and that took over all of Iraq and Syria. 40th order consequences exist. I'm not saying Israel can do nothing, but they're going to really have to,

if they had a plan to decapitate Hamas and then truly engage in some sort of diplomatic process, which led to political resolution of the entire thing, I'd be like, okay, you know, that seems reasonable. But we also know that the current government and probably the populace at this point after suffering the terrorist attack doesn't support that, which means we're going to be in a years-long embroilment just like we were in Iraq. The other problem is that the White House right now is facing so much pressure from the pro-Israel politicians and really democratic sentiment, let's also be honest, that they are putting things off the table that in the future they may want to actually call for. You flagged this one in particular, calls for a ceasefire called, quote, repugnant by White House spokesperson

Karine Jean-Pierre. Here's what she had to say. What is the president's message to members of Congress who seem to be equating the Hamas terror attack with actions that were previously taken by Israel? Look, here's the thing, and which congressional members? Well, Senator, there have been some members of Congress who have called for a ceasefire, and they have not gone as far as backing the administration's call for support for Israel. So look, I've seen some of those statements this weekend, and we're going to continue to be very clear. We believe they're wrong. We believe they're repugnant, and we believe they're disgraceful. Our condemnation belongs squarely

with terrorists who have brutally murdered, raped, kidnapped hundreds, hundreds of Israelis. There can be no equivocation about that. There are not two sides here. There are not two sides. President Biden has been clear on where he has stood. You heard from him directly today. You heard from him also on Saturday on this. There's been multiple statements from this president. And he's taking action to provide additional support to ensure that Israel has what they need to defend themselves. So question from Phil Wegman there specifically. Right. What do you think of these calls for a ceasefire? Yeah.

And she says they are repugnant and we believe they are disgraceful to call for a ceasefire, repugnant and disgraceful. Now, put that in context with what Biden is saying there about how we want the innocent civilians and we're concerned about and we don't want a reoccupation, humanitarian corridor, et cetera, on one hand. And on the other, they're saying anyone who would even say, hey, stop the violence, repugnant. And it's not just that, by the way. This is the official policy. This wasn't some just like Korean Jean-Pierre messed up and she didn't get the question right or the answer right or whatever. Put this up on the screen. Huffington Post had this originally. Washington Post has now confirmed it.

The State Department sent out a memo warning diplomats no Gaza de-escalation talk. And they gave them specific language that they do not want to appear in any communications. They wrote that press materials should not include three specific phrases, de-escalation or ceasefire, end to violence or bloodshed, and restoring calm. So any talk of peace

or ending the violence and bloodshed, officially the U.S. government's policy is that is off the table. I think that the major issue is that they see this as calling for negotiation or something like that with Hamas. And I think that there is a very easy middle ground of why they will regret, I believe, in the future is that, and what we're going to talk about very soon in geopolitics, but I'll mention here, is that the message is being received loud and clear across the Arab

world, from MBS in Saudi Arabia and Riyadh to the Qatar, you know, the Emir to Iran and the Ayatollah, which is that the United States and Egypt actually in Cairo, that the United States is cosigning whatever Israel wants to do. And whatever Biden may say, actions speak louder than words. Behavior itself is a language. Whenever you do nothing, then that sends a very clear signal. And this is reigniting really like a complete, like we have not seen the Islamic world

disunited really since probably the invasion of Iraq against us. And by unequivocally siding with Israel and by not actually drawing any sort of nuance or leaving things open in the future. We absolutely invite possible escalation in the future, future terrorist attacks against us, but more importantly, sentiment across the Arab world against us. And we're watching this really unfold as President Biden's Secretary of State, Anthony Blinken, is finding himself really not as welcome as he once was in the region. Two weeks ago. Two weeks ago. Let's put this up there on the screen. Anthony Blinken trying to recreate the

shuttle diplomacy famously done by Henry Kissinger. In the last 72 hours, he's visited Israel, the West Bank, Jordan, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi, UAE, Saudi again, Egypt, Jordan again, and Israel again on Monday. This all comes before a possible visit by President Biden. If we can put the next one, please, up there on the screen. Benjamin Netanyahu, prime minister of Israel, has invited President Biden. We will see whether President Biden does show up in some sort of show of support. Obviously, it'll be kept under wraps. He actually canceled a visit to Colorado today, Crystal.

Usually these trips are shrouded in secrecy. We'll find out when he lands in Tel Aviv or something like that. I saw this morning Channel 12, which is Israeli television, they're reporting that they're making preparations for a Wednesday or Thursday visit. So it's not confirmed. We'll see what happens. But it looks like Biden may be headed to the region as well. But let's talk a little bit about the reception that Secretary of State Antony Blinken has been getting in some of these countries. So this is from The Washington Post reporting just came out this morning. So

we don't have an element for it. But in Riyadh, Saudi ruler MBS kept blinking, blinking, waiting overnight. There was a meeting that was supposed to happen in the evening. Crown Prince did not show up till the next morning. Very intentional. Once the meeting began, MBS stressed the need to stop the military operations that claim the lives of innocent people. They're talking about the Israeli offensive and lift the siege of Gaza that has left the Palestinian territory without water, electricity or fuel. That is according to the Saudi summary of the meeting. Crown Prince also called for a halt in the current escalation in the conflict, direct contradiction of U.S. policy, which has backed Israel to pursue its maximalist goal of eradicating Hamas. Similarly, chilly reception in Egypt with Sisi, who took note of, I don't know if you remember,

we played Antony Blinken's comments when he arrived in Israel saying, I am here as a Jew. Sisi says, you said you are a Jewish person and I am an Egyptian person who grew up next to Jews in Egypt. They have never been subjected to any form of oppression or targeting. Not true, but anyway, and it has never happened in our region that Jews were targeted in recent or old history. Also not true. Blinken responded to Sisi saying, I come as a human being who is appalled by Hamas atrocities. But Sagar, you took particular note of what a diplomatic faux pas it was that Blinken made here in Israel. I was debating talking about this because I know it's so sensitive, but I will because clearly it's ignited a firestorm in the Middle East, which is Henry

Kissinger, whenever he was in the midst of Israel negotiations at the height of the Yom Kippur War and all throughout his tenure while trying to bring a solution to the crisis, always emphasized a neutral party in his shuttle diplomacy to try and make sure that the Arab states did not view him as like some sort of, quote, Jewish plant. Not my words. That's what he was trying to avoid the appearance of. And he famously told the Israeli Prime Minister, Golda Meir, quote, Golda, you must remember, first, I am an American. Second, I am Secretary of State. Third, I am a Jew. She famously responded, quote, Henry, you forget in Israel that we read from right to left. It was a great quip and it's famous for her wittiness. But the emphasis that

he was trying to make all throughout his shuttle diplomacy was I am here on behalf of President Richard Nixon, who said some problematic things, I think, about Jews, as we all found out whenever the recordings came out. The point, though, being that he always led with I'm here as a representative of the United States and a neutral arbiter who wants to try and bring this to a close as an ally of Israel, but also an ally of actual balance in the Middle East. I think that Anthony Blinken, by going to Israel first, by leading with that, and I can, which I can, of course, understand on a human level from being raised, you know, being told the stories of persecution. He did not understand that it would ignite both offense and conspiracy all across the Arab world. And I was telling you this earlier.

The thing is, in 2006, the Arab world did not have as much social media. And we already saw the impact of social media during the so-called Arab Spring, Islamism, or whatever you want to call it. The point, though, is that now in 2023, everybody's got data and everybody's got WhatsApp. This stuff flies around all across the world. There are two billion Muslims on the planet. And the emotionality of the Palestine issue, of Jerusalem, of the Al-Aqsa Mosque is at a 10 out of 10 in terms of what it ignites, as we've all watched. There's a lot of Muslims all across the world and even in the West have taken to the streets. So really what I think we're watching is that the Arab states, both from Blinken's rhetoric, from Biden's actions, and everything in the last week are like,

okay, they're 100% taking Israel's side. They're not even trying to listen to our perspective. And we're watching as the entire Arab world from Cairo, don't forget this, Cairo is the second largest recipient up until Ukraine of USAID. We have paid these people $80 billion over the last, I think, 70-something years, specifically as a counterweight to Israel and to try, you know, there's a lot of legacy of it from Oslo and negotiations and all those things in the past. The point, though, is that this is supposed to be a friendly regime. And to have our Secretary of State slapped across the face, effectively, rhetorically, in a meeting like this in a public was a direct signal to the rest of the Arab world. And I also think of some small-D democratic

sentiment where people are furious, I think, with Anthony Blinken for that. Rightfully or not, I'm just trying to explain how a lot of people there are going to internalize a comment like that. Also, when you lead with your religious identity, you instantly pour fuel on the fire of what is already a very sectarian conflict.

And that is the polar opposite of the direction that we want to go in. You know, if you want to preserve any credibility as some sort of a go-between, a negotiator, an actual diplomat, you have to try to maintain some semblance of neutrality. Another thing you should keep in mind about Sisi, he is no Islamist. He's been jailing a bunch of Islamists in Egypt. So for him to take offense in such a way that he, as you said, sort of like smacks Blinken in this very public rebuke is quite noteworthy. Egypt also, obviously, you know, a critical actor in terms of if we're actually serious about some sort of a humanitarian corridor, we're going to be negotiating directly with them.

And Egypt has historically played a really critical role as a negotiator to try to achieve ceasefires and calm between these two parties. So, you know, huge, huge misstep there from Blinken and night and day between before you had the Abraham Accords under the Trump administration, you had this new effort at Saudi normalization with Israel under the Biden administration. The idea being we're just going to pretend like these Palestinians and this whole little issue over here does not even exist. Those days are long gone. Yeah, I think that's right. And that is the big takeaway about U.S. policy and how it's being received. It actually connects to our next important segment around the geopolitics in the region and also about the increasing likelihood that I think everyone needs to

prepare themselves that the United States is this close from getting involved in this conflict, regardless of what these people say. President Biden, frankly, even setting the ground for that in his 60 Minutes interview saying, we can do both. We can have a conflict in the Middle East that embroils us with the world's petroleum supply. We can have a conflict happening in Ukraine, which is draining U.S. weapons stackpiles because we're America, man. Here's what he had to say. Are the wars in Israel and Ukraine more than the United States can take on at the same time? We're the United States of America, for God's sake.

The most powerful nation in the history, not in the world, in the history of the world. The history of the world. We can take care of both of these and still maintain our overall international defense. We can take care of both of these and maintain our overall international defense. And Crystal, once upon a time, we may have believed that. Post-Iraq and post-Afghanistan, post-shipping ammo to Ukraine and depleting our weapons stockpiles, post-COVID finding out that we

don't make anything in this country, that is just absolutely not true. There is a very limited amount of military firepower that we have access to. Now, yes, that is far more than everybody else on the planet, but it is not infinite and endless as we once thought that it was. For example, we are now committing extraordinary amounts of military resources to the Eastern Mediterranean. Let's put this up there on the screen. Unprecedented. The United States is now sending a second aircraft carrier to the Eastern Mediterranean. The USS Eisenhower will join the USS Ford off of Israel in the Eastern Mediterranean region. Secretary of Defense said that he would be getting moving to the Eastern Med, quote, as part of our effort to deter hostile actions against Israel or any efforts to

widen this war following Hamas's attack on Israel. This, of course, is meant to really be a deterrence against Iranian involvement. But something you talked about yesterday and which again bears highlighting, please put this up there on the screen, is a secret message has been communicated via Tehran to Tel Aviv. They warn Israel through the United Nations against a ground offensive in Gaza. What they said via the UN was this, if you go into Gaza in a full-scale invasion and a major offensive, and it results in mass civilian death, that Iran does not want to be in this conflict. It does not want to be into a regional war, but that they will have no choice.

And they stressed, quote, Iran has red lines. He said that if the Israeli military operation continues, and especially if Israel follows through on its promise of a ground offensive, Iran will have to respond. That is almost certainly a threat of Hezbollah increasing involvement. Already, we have minor clashes that are happening

in a possible two-front scenario. We can put this up there on the screen, confirmed by the Times of Israel. One person has already been killed in Israel in a renewed Hezbollah missile attack, and the IDF is heavily restricting the Lebanon border area in addition to rocket fire and other things that are exchanged across both sides. That is the complete nightmare scenario. In signs of even more widening conflict, for example, put this up there, just a couple of days ago, Israel bombed one of the major Aleppo airports in Syria and actually put it out of service because they said that it was the source of missile attacks and has previously had simultaneous missile attacks by IDF forces, for example, in Damascus. All of this just shows us that you

could easily have a spiraling scenario where one wrong person is killed, where, and exactly as I've laid out before, if we get into a scenario where mass death happens inside Gaza, I'm talking 10 to 50,000, 50,000 to 100,000 civilians, then it is just, there is simply no scenario in my mind where Hezbollah and the regional actors do not get involved in some way. Maybe, Crystal, they don't declare official war. It doesn't matter. These are non-state actors in and of itself. And you could have a flocking to Syria, to the borders, all surrounding Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria, where global, like a call for global jihad happens, just like happened in ISIS. You have a swarming inside of the country, suicide bombers, all the other nightmare that we saw in Mosul and throughout

the Islamic State. And there's, from the posture that we saw in Mosul and throughout the Islamic state. And there's, from the posture that we already have and the rhetoric in the United States, do you really not see how close we are right now to war with Iran or war with Hezbollah or US getting involved even from an air perspective? Don't forget what happened in Libya. And the thing is, is that let's say even if we do avoid a war with Iran, well, our intervention with Libya was no peach. It ended up the destruction of the entire country. We could see regimes toppled even by this. If they, you know, work with the US, they're going to face major pushback from their own populations. If they declare war, they could, you know, end themselves up in a problem. Who knows the level

of destabilization that could enter this? So I think everyone needs to really keep in mind we are entering a period of extreme uncertainty. And with this much firepower dedicated in this region and direct U.S. backing for whatever happens, we could easily find ourselves in this conflict. Days from now, easily, it could happen. You're going to hear some of this when we play for you our focus group. The American people, very, very sympathetic to Israel and what they're going for and mostly behind their actions in Gaza. Very different question when you ask about, do you support us getting more directly involved? And very different question if you're talking about an active hot war with Iran. And I don't think anyone should delude themselves about what a chaotic and dangerous

situation that we're in right now. I thought Dr. Parsi had a good thread about how even though it appears that none of the three parties, Iran, Israel, or the U.S. actually wants to go to war. Even that being the case, there is still a very real possibility that we end up in one in spite of that because of the actions that the three parties are taking. In particular, he says Israeli success in Gaza will give Israel freer hands to go after Hezbollah. Hezbollah may not be able to prevent an Israeli victory, but it will have a compelling interest to turn it Pyrrhic and by that make it too costly for Israel to extend it into Lebanon. So the idea being if Israel is too brutal in Gaza, Hezbollah will feel compelled to get more directly involved. You're already seeing this sporadic fighting as it is. Hezbollah's involvement in turn will bring Iran much more directly into the conflict. Iran's foreign minister has warned that unless Israel stops its attacks, the war will be widened and Israel will suffer, quote,

a huge earthquake. Those are the comments that we were mentioning before. Iran and Hezbollah's involvement will pressure Biden to intervene despite clear U.S. interest in staying out. There is little in Biden's conduct that suggests he will prioritize America's long-term strategic interest over what is politically expedient for him in the immediate term. Direct American military intervention in Gaza or against Hezbollah in Iran is all but certain to generate major attacks against U.S. troops throughout the Middle East. So there is, that's the chain of escalation that could quickly get out of hand based on the actions that all three of these parties are already taking in the region.

Yes, exactly. And just to again underscore about what I was talking about previously with respect to Anthony Blinken and how he has been badly received in the Middle East, we are realigning old adversaries towards each other who are united against us and against Israel by proxy. Put this up there on the screen. For example, Iran's president and the Saudi crown prince, MBS, spoke for the very first time ever in history. That did not happen as a result of US diplomacy trying to get Saudi Israel. Instead, we realigned the two of them where they agreed on a call to watch what currently happens in the Gaza Strip and to come out against Israeli airstrikes, just to give people an example of how these governments will be either forced by

their own policy or by their people to respond to the actions that are inside and which will absolutely impact US policy, US troops. Even if we don't end up in a actual nation state war, it's a nightmare enough to be involved with nation state actors. Ask anybody who fought against ISIS or AQI or any of those others inside of Iraq. And it just means more instability, more chaos, more likelihood of a domestic terror attack here at home, which then invites more foreign intervention abroad. All of these are parts of a very, very vicious cycle of which there absolutely is a major, major risk right now ahead.

And it's clear that the US policymakers are either too inept or don't care or are, I guess, desirable for this sort of outcome based upon the entire bipartisan system and the way it's operating right now. Anyway, you teased our focus group and how voters are thinking about this. We've got James, our moderator, standing by. In addition, we'll show you the clips. Let's get to it. As we mentioned, very excited to have some focus group results to bring you all. We're going to bring these to you all this week. They tackled a whole variety of topics, but today we wanted to keep the focus on Israel and Gaza. And so joining us to break down the results, we have James Johnson of JL Partners, who was there conducting the focus group. Great to see you, sir.

Thank you. Great to see you too. Of course. So keep in mind, guys, these were Democratic-based voters in and around Atlanta. Let's take a listen to what they thought about what's going on in Israel and Gaza. I'm sure some of you have seen in the news or something that's been dominating the news recently is the events that have been happening in Israel, in the Middle East, obviously in Gaza as well. How closely, if at all, are you following this? I was interested to see, because I thought this could be the first of a lot of bad things that could happen in the Middle East, especially,

like Anna was saying, with Russia and Ukraine. And I feel like a lot of things are often uneasy. And I was also worried to see if this would lead to any kind of anti-Semitic or anti-Islam sentiments, both in Western Europe and the U.S., outside of what was going on in the Middle East. I try to look at both sides because it seems like each side has been kind of hammering at the other one for so long that it's hard to take sides. I just feel really sad for the humanitarian crisis. I mean, 1.1 million people being forced to leave their homes and they have 24 hours to do that. Where are they going to go?

For me, I needed to educate myself more about the history before, you know, trying to choose a side because I know throughout, especially on social media, a lot of people are taking sides. So I took more of the stance of just trying to educate myself about the history of both countries to kind of get a better understanding of, like, how did they get to this point today?

Probably innocent victims would be number one for me. Some concerns for America and also sadness for my Jewish friends. I was watching, and they was talking about all the people that had died and how they did the children and how they cut the babies and children heads off. It was like kind of really disturbing. You know, what's going on in the area is terrible.

When is it going to end or will it? What do you think Israel's response is going to be now? Well, I fear that we're going to escalate so that more countries will have to get involved. And so it will end up being something much more major and a lot more people are going to die. I feel like Israel is always really hardcore when it comes to defending themselves. And so they're going to just blast the Palestinians.

Retaliation was the first thought that came to my mind. That's scary. I'm worried that there's going to be a weird situation where Israel is going to say that they haven't committed any war crimes because they tell the people of Palestine they have 24 hours to move out when they don't have the ability to do that. And then when civilians do die, Israel is going to say that they didn't commit war crimes. Obviously, Palestine is going to say they do. And it's going to be a weird situation because Israel has the support of the UN and Palestine doesn't. But Palestine does have the local support of the entire region other than Israel.

And so I think it's going to end up with even worse relations between the Western world and Israel versus all of the rest of the region. If there is now an invasion of Gaza by Israel, which is being talked about, I think it's being referred to as a ground invasion and occupation, is that a reasonable response? Is that an unreasonable response from Israel? And why? I mean, how do you feel about that?

That's so hard for me to say, because I don't want anybody to be fighting. I don't want anybody to be losing their lives. But you also have to... people have to protect their citizens, too, so... I think it's a reasonable response. You should have stayed in your place and left us alone. I don't think you can go to another country's land

and, you know, do that and not expect a response back. We got to protect ourselves. That's not just for them. That's for everyone. And Israel is just trying to stand up and protect their peoples, you know? They've been invaded. So what do you do? Do you do nothing and just die?

Or do you fight? Thinking specifically about how President Biden's responded to the crisis so far, how do we feel? Is he doing well? Is he doing badly? I saw they put the biggest warship we have in our Navy, the Air Force. The largest battleship I saw they have, they put it in the Mediterranean. And I think that's a really good sign that we're there to support. I wouldn't want him to take action against the Palestinians,

but I like that he's showing that the U.S. has a presence. I agree that I don't want him to take action. We have our own issues to deal with. My opinion is he doesn't quite know what to do yet or what to say. He's maybe still thinking everything through and the options and doing a wait and see. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? To me, it's a good thing. What role should the U.S. play now?

Should they be trying to break a peace? Should they be supporting Israel militarily? Should they be doing something else? What should the U.S. do in response now? Continue to protect Israel because I think the majority are blessed and I'm spiritual a lot, more than me, it's kind of natural, because I've been praying for Israel ever since, you know, God saved me.

So I say he's going to be full force to protect Israel at all costs. All costs? All costs. It's no answer what he's going to do to protect Israel. I think the U.S. now should also do what they can to protect the innocent victims in Israel. I mean, there's so many children. Yeah. And it's heartbreaking.

What does that mean, though, Amy? Does that mean? Yeah, well. I'm sorry. I know you're not president. But what does that mean? See, that just goes back to my whole. I just don't want there to be any war.

And I feel like if we take a super strong stance, it's not going to stop and it's going to get worse. If we go over there and like step in, it could be a lot worse. I think they should maintain the original borders that Israel had to protect Israel, but also not have them push a ground war into the Gaza Strip. If they need to have a military presence to protect Israel, I would get behind that. But moving anything into what currently, or as of two weeks ago, was Palestinian land, I think is too far. I don't think we should get involved militarily. I think you mentioned

something about brokering peace. I think that's important. I think probably we would provide humanitarian aid for those who have been displaced, help with the refugees, and kind of dovetailing off of what he said, I think providing intelligence and targeting Hamas, because there's so many innocent people who are involved. And just like in this country, everybody wants to live a happy, peaceful life, and these folks' lives have been disrupted by this terrorist group. So just like we targeted al-Qaeda, we need to target Hamas. I mean, the role that I would like them to play is just to kind of just be like that mediary for both sides.

So they can just get to some type of peace or resolution. Because in a sense of like all these innocent lives on both sides they're dying they have nothing to do with this war and this conflict that's what's going on for years so it's just unfair to the general population on both sides of what's you know um happening to them now i just think that when you start getting involved and then it's just gonna escalate and they may bring all of that here. It's like, what's going to bring peace? What's going to bring peace? I think that we should provide some humanitarian aid, try to broker peace,

but I also think we need to pay attention to the other regions of the world because I think they're watching us closely to see what the response is going to be. Who would support, in principle, U.S. military involvement. I think the U.S. needs to just go and get in there and just wipe them out and be through with it, you know? Wipe who out? The people that's fighting against Israel. I think he should be for Israel at all costs. Who, I guess?

Because right now, what's going on is innocent people dying on both sides that are dying So does that turn since you notice to clarify? Yeah, but we got to recognize we didn't start the war, you know And we wasn't really a part of the water what was for us, but by the United States standing for Israel I think they need to stand for force. I'm just for peace. I just feel like What would bring peace? Nothing. You said nothing? No peace.

No peace. But I don't agree with people dying. This is just the beginning of wars and rumors of wars. I mean, more stuff going to happen that we don't see going on with Israel and the Palestinians. I would support military involvement as long as they stay within the current borders of Israel and don't go to on with Israel and the Palestinians? I would support military involvement as long as they stay within the current borders of Israel and don't go to West Bank or other places. Anyone else?

I would just support sending in peacekeepers. I'd rather stay out of it, but if we had to, then we have to. I'm thinking that a defensive posture for Israel would be okay. I wouldn't want to see us, um, take any offensive action. I think the rest of the world is watching to see what we're going to do. Really, really interesting. Yeah.

Obviously, you have a wide variety of views there. You know, people are saying, just one piece. Um, I think Mary is in the front row who, you know, is very adamant, like we should get in there at all costs. What was the energy in the room? Because one of the things, honestly, that I was struck by after, you know, we spent so much time online seeing just the like insanely like outright genocidal talk and hatred and vitriol on both sides, that they were even able to have this conversation, which is very emotionally fraught with a variety of opinions in like a human, respectful kind of way.

Yeah, I think it's a reminder not to underestimate the public. You know, they are capable of having noticed these things and talking about it in an intelligent way. You saw a range of opinions there, as you say, Mary, and a couple of others on the more strident side, others a bit more of the sort of view of, well, there are both sides, we need to look at peace. I think two things ran through that group as a whole. One was is that they're quite sort of up for being led on this issue. I took that away too, that if you had someone coming out and making a strong message or whatever the media is saying, you could see them being very swayed by people that they trusted on the issue. Exactly. And particularly if it came from Biden.

You'll see later through the week, you know, their views on President Biden. But actually, there's a respect for him amongst this group. And they think of him as an experienced figure who can sort of help lead them through. So certainly on that side, I think there is that leadership point. And the second thing that came through is that, you know, this is the Democrat base in Atlanta. These are Democrat primary voters. Polling tends to show them being a little bit more on the liberal side of perhaps Democratic leadership, and particularly Joe Biden. You saw here a more strident military role being called for by them than we've even heard from the Biden administration so far. Even the more softly spoken members of that group were quite up for

having US troops in Israel defending their current borders. So, you know, a much more strident view, perhaps a little bit unexpected if you looked at what the polling might say. Yeah, it is fascinating. I mean, that's why we like doing these and we like you being able to tease them out is because we get to things here and see things that, you know, not even in the public realm and not even necessarily how people would think comport with, you know, supposed public opinion polling. What else did you notice in terms of the conversation, not just Israel, Gaza and all that, but their ability to disagree with each other? Where were the broad agreements and disagreements and what were the contours? Was it about media diet? Was it age? Like, where did you see these things start to break apart?

I think there's an age element for sure. I think the younger and sort of more people more likely to get news from sources other than cable news, there was a bit more of a sort of openness to what perhaps was going on the other side, that sort of both-sides-ism, I suppose, we sort of saw coming through there for the younger groups. The older groups, much more of a sort of cultural affinity with Israel, and you saw that exemplified by Mary so clearly. For her, as she said there, God and Jesus had saved her, and she said she prays for Israel in the same way that she prays to God. So there's that cultural

affinity for her there that perhaps wasn't so clear in the younger groups. But look, another thing that unified this group was the horror and disgust of what happened. There was no sort of conspiracy theory in there. There was no sort of sense that Israel might have manipulated these images, which is one of the crazier conspiracy theories going around online. There was no sort of sense that Israel might have manipulated these images, which is one of the theories, you know, one of the crazier conspiracy theories going around online. There was a sense of, you know, of real sort of abject horror of what happened. And it's interesting because that's quite different from what we see in our UK focus groups. There, there's a lot more sort of doubt and conspiracy. And I think we see that in Europe as well. And a lot more of a sort of doubt about what Israel are saying. I think it comes down to that cultural affinity point.

You know, the U.S. and Israel are stronger allies. Well, I think that's absolutely right. And the media here has consistently been much more pro-Israel and has done very little to ever center the humanity of Palestinians. So you mentioned while we were watching, there was a real conflation oftentimes of Hamas and the Palestinian people and a number of participants, you know, really didn't have a clear line in their mind between these two groups. Another thing that stuck out to me as at odds with how the Biden administration

has positioned themselves is you had, you know, the majority of the group saying, we want peace. We don't want war. We want to send in peacekeepers. We want, you know, we want negotiations. We want diplomacy. We want the U.S. to be involved in that. Whereas you had Karine Jean-Pierre as representative of the Biden White House saying calls for a ceasefire are, quote unquote, repugnant. You had a memo going out to State Department officials saying we do not want to using words about ending the bloodshed, ending the violence, restoring calm or ceasefire. So in that way, the Biden administration appears to be very dissonant with where a bulk of the group is outside of a few like Mary, who, you know, was very clear about

how her faith is very much informing her view of this conflict as well. I think that's where we get, you know, public opinion and policy rubbing up against each other. Some of the people in the group who talked about, you know, the need for peace and peacekeepers and, you know, we just need to make sure we minimize civilian lives. When I pushed them on the how, quite fairly, they didn't know how. And I think that's where we're going to see a bit of a tension. The other thing I felt about that group was they've got a very bleak view of where this is going to head.

There's no optimism in here. I don't know how you could have other than a bleak view. Absolutely. But they also thought that this would spill into a potential global conflict, even potentially with the US involved. Right. James, how much are they paying attention? That's one thing that struck me. I was like, wow. Particularly the younger gentleman, I was like, this guy is reading the news. And I talk a lot about here on the show, the news is not centered for the vast majority of people. You know, they're going about their lives. They may tune in every once in a while. But this seems like a pretty informed group. Now, of course, they are primary voters. They're probably going to be

more engaged than normal. But it did seem like they were paying pretty close attention to the situation right now. Yeah, I think this is one of these rare moments where people turn on cable news and they watch the live footage. And I know that a couple of reporters said that over the weekend, last weekend after the attacks, they were on planes and they were seeing 25, 50% of people on the plane watching the live cable news shows. That never happens. So I think this was one of those rare moments

where it's a cable news moment. And obviously that's not going to hold, but I think that informs a bit of what we saw there. I think you're right. James, just give us a little bit of a preview of some of the other interesting divides that we're going to be sharing with our audience here throughout the week.

Absolutely. So we centered in on President Biden's leadership as well as Kamala Harris. So we saw some really interesting insights. I won't spoil it, but it might not be the best reading for Kamala Harris, the best listening for Kamala Harris. Mary, I heard, had some strong views.

We have a little bit of a tease. I love that lady. We also did this fantastic exercise where we asked the respondents to draw what they thought Biden would be if he was an animal and Trump would be if he was an animal. We've got some great artwork for you. Have you done that before? That's such a clever idea. You know what? It's entirely down to one of my colleagues. I can't take credit for this idea, but it was genius.

This tells you a lot about how they see the two candidates. So lots more coming in store. Okay. Okay. Well, I just want to thank all of us, the premium subscribers. You guys enable us to be able to do this news content that some other channels are not doing. JL Partners, James, as well, of course. And a shout out to Adam Duffy, a college newspaper guy from Atlanta who helped out our crew as well. That's from Griffin, as well as all of our crew that was able to travel down there to Atlanta. You guys are the ones helping enable and pay for this. So we thank you all very much. Breakingpoints.com if you are able. And James, we are going to have great content featured by you all over our channel. You do a great job leading these discussions and making people feel comfortable expressing whatever it is their opinion is. So thank you so much.

Thank you for having me. Absolutely. It's not the last time we'll be working together, so we'll see you again. At the same time, we are tracking global public opinion. There have been massive protests all across the world. We can show you some video from that. Here you can see in London, right in the middle of the UK. This is in Cairo. Here we have New York City. We have continuing in Glasgow and Scotland. We have Amman, Jordan. The Jordanian one in particular was massive. This is in Lahore, in Pakistan, Dublin, in Ireland. These have been put together by Al Jazeera. Cape Town, South Africa, where their president also voiced support.

Baghdad in Iraq. Naples in Italy. The point that we're trying to put together here, Crystal, is that yes, we've seen massive pro-Israel protests, of course, here in the United States. But a major highlight from these is cities with large Islamic populations and then also Islamic and Arab countries themselves is seeing a huge outpouring of protests for the Palestinian cause. The reason, again, that this connects to our geopolitics segment that we did earlier is about dragging

the U.S. possibly further into the conflict, mobilizing much of the world against us if we do not finesse our policy here very, very carefully. It also comes at a time when Western governments are really beginning to crack down on dissent in their own countries. We can put this up there on the screen. We have a bit of a mashup here. For example, from the Independent, flying a Palestinian flag in the UK, quote, may not be legitimate, according to their home secretary. In France, they have ordered a ban on all pro-Palestinian protests from the interior minister themselves in order to, quote, clamp down on anti-Semitism. From Haaretz, the Likud minister has formulated an emergency regulation to imprison citizens who, quote, harm national morale. This is inside of Israel, to be clear.

That's like alien and sedition level stuff. And then even here, I got to say, not too happy about this one. Senator Josh Hawley calling for the DOJ to investigate student led pro-Palestinian groups on college campuses. Happened to that whole weaponization of government concern there, Mr. Hawley. I would personally like to keep our FBI out of student groups. Didn't go so well the last time that that happened, even if any group in particular. And finally, in terms of social media, it has been such a nightmare for our team sifting what is true, what is not, to try and frame everything and make sure and be like, hey, this is from Al Jazeera, so it's got a pro-Palestinian bias. Hey, this is from BBC or whatever from the West. So it's got this type of bias. But the

problem is that we are seeing mass censorship now applied on social media. We can put this up there, for example, on the screen from Meta, aka Facebook, suspending the page of, quote, the Quds News Network. That's a Palestinian news organization that, to be clear, is affiliated with Hamas. I'm not defending their affiliation or any of that. But I do think it is important, as always, I spoke up for RT and I'll speak up for it now, is I want to know what these people are saying. It was a very important moment, Chris, when we played here on the show, that translated segment from a Hamas leader being like, hey, we're going to slaughter people if we don't see, if we have airstrikes that continue. It's important to hear what the quote unquote enemy or what the other side is saying,

just to be like, okay, this is what they're telling people. In terms of their internal communications, it is actually vital to be able to see and to hear. And we can always, I think all of us are smart enough to take things with a grain of salt and to sit here and to actually try and look at things in context. And so to see the banning of this massive Facebook page, which was like a center for sharing information, I understand why people are like, oh, but we have to crack down on it. But at the end of the day, less information just means we're more in the dark. And that's

more that we have to rely on somebody else's translation or somebody else's view of what's happening with this and this. I just, I really would venture to say not a single person on earth is going to be like pro-Israel and see a Quds News Network thing shared to their page. And be like, you know what? Nope, now I'm Palestinian. But it's not how the world works. Well, it's especially critical in a situation like this when, I mean, there are very few journalists allowed into Gaza. I mean, in terms of getting actual information, video footage, et cetera, from the ground, it is really important to have as many sources as we possibly can. And, you know, this is something we stood up for RT when they were getting banned all over the place. Not that we have any love for them. They're not full of propaganda and all that stuff as well.

So it's, you know, about applying a consistent principle here. And this is far from the first time that Facebook slash Meta has worked directly with the Israeli government who told them you need to censor or take down this and that and the other group in a similar fashion that they have also worked with the United States government, I'm sure other governments around the world. I just want to give you to give you a sense of how wild and insane and heavy handed some of the censorship has become. I mean, on its face, banning protests in France, also in Germany. And this is not, you know, we're just going to ban like if you're pro-Hammaz. No,

any sympathy with the Palestinian cause, that protest completely banned. That is wild. This proposed regulation within Israel, which there's a lot of talk about, oh, Israel, the, you know, Middle Eastern's democracy, et cetera, et cetera, which, you know, the Palestinians who live in Israel may beg to differ. But what is being suggested here is that these regulations would allow the communications minister directly to tell police to arrest civilians, remove them from their homes, or seize their property if he personally believes that they have spread information that could, quote, harm national morale or serve as the basis for enemy propaganda. This was drafted in consultation with National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gavir,

who is one of, if not the most extreme member of Netanyahu's cabinet. It would apply to the general public and the media, as well as both local and foreign media. Will also apply to the publication of factually correct statements at the minister's discretion. So it is the most dystopian, big brother, nightmarish thing you can possibly imagine that is being proposed here. And, you know, Sagar, this issue has always, even when emotions and tensions are not as high as they are right now, this issue and how you talk about Israel and Palestine, I would argue, has always been the most central locus of, quote unquote, cancel culture, especially when you consider explicit

laws against supporting BDS, which have been enacted in a lot of states across the country. When you see the number of jobs that have been lost, columnists who have lost their jobs, university positions which have been canceled, etc. And we're about to get into this. When you see the reaction to that statement, which I objected to that Harvard student groups put out, but it's not just, hey, let's call it out and say we disagree. It's we want to know who they are. We want to dox them. We want to blacklist them for literally their entire lives. That is the reaction to saying the quote unquote wrong thing on this issue. Look, I know a lot of people who are pro-Israel, who are getting caught up in the moment and who

otherwise would not be for or would oppose much of that type of action that is happening here because they could also recognize that it would be very easily used against them on a whole host of other issues that they care about. Now, if you care about this the most and trying to crack down on this at that time, but then you just have to admit that you're really not for principles. And that's the issue is we watch this happen with Russia. Remember, at that, you know, in the invasion of Ukraine, we had what the Russian tennis players that weren't allowed at Wimbledon. We had like the banning of Russia. You know, there is actually a restaurant near where I live, which is a Russian Uzbek cuisine. They took the word Russian off their sign.

Wow. So here in Washington, there was a famous restaurant, Russia House, which I think either took its sign down or something like that, which used to, you know, again, serve Russian food and drinks and all those things. And now I don't believe, you know, advertisers because they were facing vandalism. This level of insanity reminds me very much of like the post 9-11 period. And what do we all look back on Freedom Fries as? Fucking stupid. Like, let's all be honest. We're like, I cannot believe that this country ever backed the Freedom Fries thing. And that was the least of it.

Right. Think of the national security state. Think of the Patriot Act. Think of the surveillance of citizens that was justified by, you know, the horrific acts, terror attacks of 9-11. Think of what that allowed, the power that that allowed politicians to grab in the name of national security. Think of the way that the FBI was used to, rather than actually fighting crime and keeping people safe, to entrap young Muslim men so that they could have some big press conference and some big steam of disrupting, uh, sting and disrupt a terrorist attack that

was never going to happen if they weren't like radicalizing people and buying them, buying them guns and giving them money and convincing them that they should conduct a terror attack. So do not underestimate the insanity that can come with this type of justifiable upset and emotion and desire for people to stay safe. And we are seeing it spread like wildfire around the globe. Just look, don't get caught up in hysteria. You know, in just the short amount of time you and I have been doing this show, just this show, Breaking Points, we've lived through three major conflicts, Afghanistan, Ukraine, and now Israel and Hamas. And we see a consistent period every time.

Both of our beliefs are very much rooted in the insanity of the post 9-11 world. And anything that reminds me of that, I start to get very, very skeptical. I think it will generally serve you well to keep that skepticism, especially when we're in the heat of things. And six months or seven months before, you can look back, or six, seven months later, you can look back and be like, yeah, that was pretty silly. So just try and avoid being that person. Let's get to the next one. This is a really fun discourse that has erupted, that I've watched, absolutely ripped the right apart, where do we oppose cancel culture

at all times or not, especially whenever it comes to college students. Crystal, I thought you and I had a fun discussion about this. People can go watch it. It was posted on our channel on Friday. And a war has broken out by two conservative commentators. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. First was from Megan Kelly. She was actually responding to something from Vivek Ramaswamy, which we'll show you. But she effectively is saying, quote, that it is unable to persuade college students that, quote, murdering babies is wrong. There's no persuading them. We don't hire those who do the killing, and we don't hire those who applaud killers while the savagery is underway. If you are open to hiring one of those lunatics, though, good to know.

This actually was responded to by Candace Owens. So let's put this up there on the screen. This is an important corollary to her discourse. She says, oh, stop it. This is incredibly disingenuous, Megan. You know that many of those students are not out there because they want babies to be murdered. College kids are stupid. I used to be radically pro-choice. I'm glad I didn't get put on a conservative black post for wanting babies murdered. As it turned out, I was just young and temporarily brainwashed from a public school education coupled with mainstream Hollywood lies, and not because I legitimately wanted to see infants torn from their mother's wombs.

Dr. Thomas Sowell used to be a radical socialist who ardently supported communism. Thankfully, he wasn't put on a conservative black list, and he was accused of being a person who wanted worldwide suffering and starvation, as socialism and communism bring. Students are young and experimenting. You're an adult woman who is advocating for their lives to be permanently discourse around this because I have watched people who, I think correctly, have decried all of these efforts in the past absolutely sign on to this one. Now, I did, you know, I made a comment previously about, like, trying to distinguish

between undergrad and law student, but especially with the undergrads, which I think Megan is encompassing within that. I just, oppose anybody undergraduate who's involved in this. As Candace said, people do and say a lot of stupid things when they are young. That doesn't mean they don't deserve to be employed later on and follow this for them for the rest of their life. And as Candace correctly says, people change their minds all the time. In fact, this will probably be a learning thing. They're like, hey, I probably shouldn't just, you know, cosign whatever somebody puts in front of me for quote unquote solidarity purposes. I should think for myself. That can be a good lesson without having to then endure permanent, you know, professional blacklist.

Yeah, from some of the most powerful people in the country, CEOs, billionaires, conservative commentators, et cetera. Definitely. Just so everybody's clear what we're talking about here, can you guys put D7 up on the screen? The part of this Harvard statement, because the way Megan characterizes it, it sounds like they were like, we want babies to be murdered. The part that people objected to from the Harvard student statement, which is there under the Instagram label there on the right. They say, we, the understined student organization, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence. As I said before, to me, that's insane. Like, I am perfectly comfortable criticizing the Israelis as I do their government, the apartheid regime, the blockade, the war crimes. You can do all of that and also say, you know what? The terrorists in Hamas who massacred Israeli innocent civilians at a music festival are also to blame. They do share blame for the unfolding violence. Okay, so that's my issue, but that's

what they said. They hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding events. Look at this tear sheet in the New York Times on the other side from opinion columnist Brett Stevens. Hamas bears the blame for every death in this war. It's the exact same logic. What the Israeli government, which has decided to conduct this complete siege and deny all of the innocent civilians within Gaza water, electricity, food, force a million of them to evacuate in a humanitarian crisis, bomb civilian infrastructure. They don't bear any blame for that. They have no culpability. So that's allowed to be published in the New York Times with zero controversy, response, no problem whatsoever. Harvard student groups use the very same completely flawed logic. And there is an absolute vendetta out for these young people's heads of we want you doxed, we want you blacklisted, we're funding a truck to put your faces on it and say you're anti-Semites to drive around the town.

We want you named and shamed and to be drummed out of polite society forever. How do we feel about this conflict? We need to have some space for grace and it's one I vehemently oppose, because this is a nightmarish direction to go in. Yeah. And let's give credit where due. All of this was sparked by Vivek Ramaswamy, presidential candidate. Let's put this up there on the screen. He put out this statement, quote, anyone in criticizing left-wing cancel culture, but it is bad no matter who practices it. It wasn't great when people were wearing Trump hats, were fired from work, and it wasn't great when college graduates couldn't get hired unless they signed oppressive DEI pledges. It's not great now if companies refuse to hire kids who are part of student groups that once adopted the wrong views on Israel. This is not a legal point. It's a cultural point. I say this as someone who vehemently

disagrees with those student groups. Those calling for blacklisting students right now are responding from a place of understandable hurt. But I am confident that in the fullness of time, they will agree with me on the wisdom of avoiding these cancel culture tactics. And this also, as I said, is splintering much of the institutional right. Here's a good example here that we can put on the screen. Ben Dominick, the husband of Meghan McCain and a prominent conservative commentator here in Washington, he says, quote, if Charlie Kirk remains the head of TPUSA, the right has an anti-Semite problem that will follow them into coming elections. The real beef by Ben was Charlie bringing up Israeli intelligence failures and saying that he didn't want to wait until later and wanted to dwell on it. Right now, Charlie, for example, is having to fight back against this. Let's put this up there

on the screen. He put out this long tweet statement. For the last four years, I've been accused of being a Jewish shill. We sponsor 300 people a year to visit Israel, etc. We kicked out a Jew hater at an event. We have successfully thwarted BDS campaigns. This type of libel is poison. You know, nothing of what you speak except a two-minute clip where I ask questions about the intelligence failures of the Israeli government, which were reported by Axios and others. If stuff like this continues, Israel will lose support from a major faction of voices on the right. Support Israel and you get called a Jew-hater. This is a repugnant lie from the pit of hell. You should be ashamed. I think

it just demonstrates, once again, the level of vitriol on the issue and already seeing a splinter, not only much of the left, but also on the right, in terms of trying to prove your bona fides about who is more pro-Israel or not. None of this ends up standing in the long run. In the long run, none of this ends up looking particularly good. So I did appreciate the comments by Candace and by Vivek. And also, I do think it tracks to a foreign policy commitment. We didn't end up putting this into the show, but there was a big divide between Ben Shapiro and Candace on this. Candace is like, I think America should only care about our borders and not get involved in the rest of the world. Whereas Shapiro eviscerated

Tucker Carlson for effectively saying the same thing. He's like, well, we should care more about our border than we do about other countries. It's a very common sentiment, I think. And that itself will also further split apart the right should war come on the table. Because the main criticism right now of Biden, if anything, from the institutional right, is that he's not pro-Israel enough and not willing enough to bomb Iran or get involved in a conflict. So this is the same ideological fissure, I think, that exists on that. Yeah. I mean, it's nice to see that there are a few people who are trying to remain consistent with some sort of principle, because it's rare that you see that. Oftentimes, people, when it's their side that's being

canceled, they care a lot. When it's something they disagree with, suddenly they're really silent. And this issue in particular on Israel, this has always been like the main area of silence on the right when it comes to cancel culture, because this is a consistent thing that comes up, as I said, even when you're not in incredibly heightened moments. So, you know, as much as there was and continues to be a lot of censorship around views on the Russia-Ukraine situation, certain things you're really not allowed to say, you'd be branded as the Putin puppet and a Kremlin and all of this sort of stuff. It really is magnified and amplified

on this issue where there are so many deep personal connections and ties and just a lot of very, very fraught and understandable, frankly, emotions here as well. Yes, you're right. And it also highlights the height of emotions and the real reckoning that's happening inside of Israel. Let's get to this because this is a story that is not being properly reported by the American press. There is far more dissent, vitriol, and debate inside that country than there is in this country, which remains shocking to me. And just to show you from the Jerusalem Post, which is a right-wing publication, by the way, inside of Israel, let's put this up there on the screen. 86% of respondents in the Jerusalem Post poll, including 79% of the coalition government supporters, said that the attack from Gaza is a failure of the country's leadership.

Quote, a staggering 92% said that the war is causing anxiety. And furthermore, all the respondents, 94%, believe the government must bear some responsibility for the lack of security preparedness that led to the assault. Over 75% say the government holds most of the responsibilities. That was the thing Charlie Kirk was trying to talk about. He's accused of being an anti-Israeli. And the rest of it, as you go, can you put it back up there on the screen, please? Just because I want people to be able to see that as I read. Netanyahu must resign, most Israelis say.

New survey from 620 Israelis from across the country found that the majority of respondents believed he should resign following the conclusion of the next operation. Quote, a slim majority, 56 percent. But still, 28 percent of coalition voters agreed and 52 percent said that the defense minister himself must also resign. That highlights just the immense amount of anger inside the country against the security establishment for which they have given up their children. They have given up years of their life in the IDF. They've given up all civil liberties that they ever had or even had a pretense of. They gave up so much for the promise of being kept safe, which is what Bibi ran on over and over and over again. And people have taken to the streets. Here is one example of a foreign correspondent from ABC News in the midst of one of these protests. Let's take a listen.

I think the concern is that if there is a significant ground incursion into Gaza, Phil, that they're going to lose those hostages. Hamas has honeycombed all of Gaza with these tunnels. That's where they keep the militants. That's where they keep the militants. That's where they keep the rockets and their weapons. That's where it's believed they are keeping all of the hostages. They are the most valuable commodity in all of Gaza right now. And I want you to see what's going on here. There appears to be a protest breaking out, some anger with police.

Looks like they're taking over the road. I'm not exactly sure. But the anger here is that not enough is being done about the hostages. That Israel seems to be willing to fight in Gaza but not bring these people home. And basically to a person here, we've been told that everybody is willing to give up the 10, 11,000 Palestinian prisoners being held in Israel in exchange for the 150 or so. And that includes the Americans, of course. We're trying to figure out what's going on,

but tensions have been high all afternoon. At one point, protesters here tried to block the entrance, and there's a truck that kind of nudged up against them. Now they've taken over the street right now. There you go. I mean, you could see that was literally in the streets of Tel Aviv. And what he's pointing out is that there's a lot of concern in Israel about the hostages. This is something I highlighted last time around, but it's important to remember the Israeli population was very supportive of Bibi whenever he traded almost a thousand, I believe, Hamas or Palestinian prisoners for a single Israeli soldier. And it was because people there all have a direct connection. They see themselves and their children in the eyes of the kids who in many cases do not even necessarily want to serve in the military who do end up there.

And then the last thing – we debated putting this into our show, but just to explain before we play it is we don't want to say that this is all of Israeli sentiment. But again, we want to play a voice of an Israeli-American who has a very different view of how the government should respond to this conflict. Just to show you, not everybody inside of Israel is clamoring for blood in Gaza. This was during an interview with CNN. And keep in mind, this is a person who lost a member of his family actually in the attack from Hamas. Let's take a listen. What I wanted to say is the most important for me, and I think also for my brother, was that his death won't be used to kill innocent people. And sadly, my government is using cynically the death of people to just kill. They promised us it's going bring us um like security but of course it's not security because they always tell us oh that if we're gonna kill enough palestinians

or they're gonna so it's gonna be better for us but of course it never brings us peace and never brings us better lives it just brings more and more terror and more and more people killed like my brother. And I don't want anything to happen to people in Gaza like it happens to my brother. And I'm sure he wouldn't have any either. So that's my call to my government. Stop killing innocent people. And that's not the way that brings us peace and security to people in Israel.

That's a very courageous statement by somebody who just lost their brother in a terrible terrorist attack. And yeah, again, look, there are also a lot of people whose relatives were killed who were like, wipe them up, face to the earth, let's kill them all. So we're not pretending. That's the majority sentiment. But I do think it's important for people to understand, you know, Israel is a country just like anybody else with a lot of different people. And they're having a lot of dissent and a lot of debate over there.

No, overwhelmingly, they agree both that something needs to be done and that the government is to blame. So let's follow their lead and actually talk about it in a nuanced way. Yeah. Netanyahu in the wake of these attacks, where as you can see from these numbers, he is overwhelmingly being blamed for the failure of the response and anticipation. We now know that he was directly warned, at least by Egyptian intelligence, also appears by U.S. intelligence, also appears his own intelligence services picked up some signs. Hamas was out there doing war games and they're like, I think this is fine. It had been his strategy, his stated strategy over years to sort of prop up Hamas as a way of foiling any efforts at establishing an

actual Palestinian state. He found them to be a useful adversary. So in the wake of all of this, with rage among so many of the citizens of Israel, we played for you, you know, one of the cabinet ministers getting screamed at and kicked out of a hospital by the people there who were absolutely irate. Netanyahu has been really pretty silent, not taking questions from press because he doesn't want to have to face any of these very difficult questions, doing very little and saying very little about the families who have loved ones who are being held hostage right now. Certainly seems to be no openness to that sort of negotiation to try to bring those hostages home safely. Now, again, it is the fault of Hamas that they are holding these hostages. They should release

them. It is barbaric and it is inhumane and it is insane that they are doing so. But the Israeli people see that the government is not doing anything to really try to bring their loved ones home. Very emotional issue. And as I said, apparently, they've looked more to Joe Biden for leadership in the wake of these attacks than they have their own prime minister, Biden, giving that big speech. It was watched by a huge proportion of the Israeli public. Netanyahu doing nothing similar. And as I said, not making himself

available to the press for any sort of questioning on these failures. So there is a real, there appears from the outside, we're not there, so we can only say what we're seeing from these opinion polls and from the media clips and coverage. But there appears to be a real rally around the flag, as you would expect, but also a sort of unity in opposition of Netanyahu and the direction that he has taken the Israeli government in. Yeah, I think that and that's important because we didn't have that after 9-11 and it led to a lot of massive mistakes. We both rallied around the flag and then the guy who we elected president and we didn't end up questioning that for a long time. And by that time, there were hundreds of thousands of people who were dead, including many U.S. soldiers.

So I would just hope and I would pray that many people inside Israel don't make the same mistake that we did. You can rally around your flag and you can protect your nation while also recognizing that your politicians are not always the same people behind that flag. Okay, so let's move on to some media coverage here, because this is an important piece of the story of censorship, of the way that this conflict is portrayed, of who is granted humanity in this conflict and who is not. Put this up on the screen. This was a bombshell report from Semaphore. The headline here from Max Tanney is Inside MSNBC's Middle East Conflict. He reports that MSNBC has quietly taken three of its Muslim broadcasters out of the anchor's chair

since Hamas's attack on Israel last Saturday amid America's wave of sympathy for Israeli terror victims. The specifics here, which I'm going to tell you, MSNBC vehemently disputes, but I think it's pretty hard to deny when you see Ali Velshi, Mehdi Hassan, and Eamon Moyaldine all taken out of their normal anchor chair slots. Pretty undeniable there is something going on here. So they didn't air a scheduled Thursday night episode of the Mehdi Hassan show on Peacock. They reversed a plan for Amon to fill in on the network for host Joy Reid's 7 p.m. primetime show on Thursday and Friday. They say Boyle Dean, an Egyptian-American journalist and veteran NBC News correspondent, covered the conflict from Gaza for two years.

Wouldn't you think that the guy who was in Gaza for two years covering this conflict might have something to add to your coverage? One might think so. In 2021, they point out he aggressively questioned Israeli leaders on strikes in the territory. Two network sources with knowledge of the plans told Semaphore the network also plans to have Alicia Menendez, Bob Menendez's daughter, fill in this upcoming weekend for Ali Velshi, a third Muslim American host who on Sunday interviewed a spokesman for the Palestinian Authority. So all three of those sidelined from their normal anchor chair slot. Now, let me tell you their side. Ali Velshi has actually been on the ground in Israel reporting. He is now back in the US, but rather than being put in his normal time slot on his own, he was co-hosting with Alex Witt. Now, if you've worked in this

industry, you know that there is a big difference between being a guest and being a co-host and having your own show that you get to pick the guests, the line of questioning, the way stories are framed, the elements that are drawn from, very big difference. So they also say, you know, Amen and Mehdi, they've been on the network as guests, et cetera, et cetera. Very different from being a host of your own program. In addition, outside of sidelining three of the individuals who have the most in-depth knowledge, by the way, also of this conflict and the history and all of that, there's also been a lot of internal uproar that they reported on in this piece as well. So there was an event that was created to hear updates about the situation in Israel and a place to share family and friends stories from on the ground, noting that there would be a rabbi in attendance. One of the producers for Ali Velshi's show asked in this internal communication, why is there no Palestinian representation? The response

from the organizer, which tagged NBC's HR director, so go into the HR director, this is not about Palestinians and Jews Israelis. This is about terrorists and Jews Israelis. Anyone entering this group needs to denounce terror and what happened on Saturday, claims of freedom fighting, rationalizations, really anything not explicitly and unequivocally about being supportive during this difficult time, these do not belong here. And Velshi's producer said that that same employee

sent him a private message, including some, quote, incredibly offensive things. So it is getting ugly over there at MSNBC. Oh, yeah. I mean, I just think it's so funny to watch because all of this is things that they accuse others of doing. All of this demonstrates their one-sided nature, but more so it just shows you who they really take their orders from. And that's the ADL. How can we forget that the ADL president appeared on their network, looked straight into the camera, and gave them orders, and then they followed those orders only hours afterwards?

We'll relive that from last week. Let's take a listen. I must say, I love this show, and I love this network, but I've got to ask, who is writing the scripts? Hamas? The people who did this, they are not fighters, Jonathan. They are not militants, and I'm looking right at the scripts. Hamas, the people who did this, they are not fighters, Jonathan. They are not militants. And I'm looking right at the camera. They are terrorists. So I just think, like, guys, get this story right. And all these pictures of like, you know, missiles or the rubble in Gaza. Please talk to the Israeli mothers and fathers who lost their children. Talk to the grandchildren whose grandparents were seized as hostages. And please stop calling this a retaliation. Wow. So guys, get the story right. Who's writing the scripts? Those are all very,

by the way, very intentionally, I think, used words. And considering now the fallout from that, it does show you that they are absolutely listening to the ADL in terms of that criticism. We had talked, I remember, after that. And I was like, I said, I think to you, I said, I think they're going to take them off the air or something. I said, there's no way. Oh, we both felt very confident that they would be. And they did. What's really crazy is how quickly that they did it as you laid out. I mean, to reschedule people, keep them all up in the air. We don't know what's going to happen. And

with all of that, that's a very clear sign. It also just shows you, even when they come back, you think they're going to say the same thing? You think they're going to say what they think? These people, and look, on a personal level personal level, these people, they all have kids. By the way, I can't even stand Mehdi Haase. I literally despise him. That said, I will speak up for him. I don't think it's right for somebody to be taken off for their views on something like this. And I especially think it's egregious for them to do so at the behest of a direct lobbying organization

and not actually even attempt to try and tell a fulsome story, something that even CNN has been able to do during this conflict. Listen, I have disagreements with Mehdi Hassan. He's one of the few anchors on MSNBC that ever actually challenges Democrats and has shown more courage on certain issues than virtually any other host there. But you know, there's so many things here. I mean, we last week, after that ADL dude said what he said, we played for know, the other, there's, there's so many things here. I mean, we last week after that ADL dude said what he said, we played for you, the commentary that sparked those comments. And it was, none of it was like Hamas talking point. It was not beyond the pale. Not at all.

No one was saying it's really civilians deserve to die. And this is what they get. And I, they're freedom fighters and I justify this, you know, murdering a bait. No one was saying that you had many who was talking about, listen, you got two point two million people in Gaza. Near a majority of them are children, helping people understand the reality of what's going on here. And it drives me crazy every time I hear that, because he says the ADL guy, he says, go out and interview the mothers who lost their children. And MSNBC has done that, but he does not want the Palestinian mothers interviewed. He does not want the images of rubble. He wants them to, quote, get the story right. And at a network that really talks big game about diversity, suddenly they're pushing. Are there any other Muslim men who are anchors at that network or

have they sidelined literally all of them at this point? At this point, their best bet is to just play identity politics and be like, you're silencing people of color's voice. Which, why do we have to, you know, phrase it that way too? I actually— I mean, the fact that they have backgrounds in the region and knowledge of and reporting on the ground in the region, that's a valuable asset. That's my—for me, it's like, I don't care whether Iman is a Muslim or not. I care that he spent some time in Gaza. So I'm like, okay, all right. I want to hear what he has to say. I don't know that many people have been to Gaza. It's

really hard to get to, especially for American citizens who are journalists. He, I believe he's Egyptian. So he has some background that he can give some there as well. That's great. That's what I want to hear from. I want to hear from people, anybody who has spent significant time there. That's really what the disservice is, as opposed to what somebody who's in New York who's never even been to the region. I mean, how can you possibly give context? I mean, I rely on a lot of my experience in the Middle East and in Israel as well, just to try and inform some of the commentary that I bring here. I like to think that it's helpful for people. And yeah, I just can't imagine being taken off from that in lieu of whatever the political preferences are of said bosses. But that's why we don't have bosses.

Yeah. I mean, they're doing special primetime coverage at the network. Have these guys been included? Right. People have actually, Eamon spent two years on the ground in Gaza. Has he been included? Do you think his thoughts might be useful for people to hear and understand what life is like there? No, he has been excluded from that coverage. So it is very interesting to watch in real time the way that these stories are shaped and how, you know, anyone that might have a dissident view or something else that they could bring to the table. They're not, you know, they're not fired. They're not completely censored. They're still allowed to be a guest, but they're going to be, they're going to be reined in. They're going to be managed. They're going to make sure that they can stay in their lane. And we have another perfect example

of the way that the media covers this conflict. This is, this is really wild. Put this up on the screen. A Reuters video journalist was killed and six other journalists were also injured in an Israeli strike in southern Lebanon. I mean, you know, you could say, look, technically maybe it came. But their headline here isn't Reuters journalist killed by an Israeli strike. Killed in Lebanon in missile fire from the direction of Israel. Okay. From the direction of Israel, their own person was killed and they can't even say how or why. Now, imagine that it was a Hamas rocket that killed this Reuters journalist. You think they have any qualms? You think they need to launch a nine-month investigation to figure out what happened

and be able to tell the public how and why their own journalist was killed? Do you think they would have any problem doing that? Of course not. Look, nobody thinks that they wanted to do it. They didn't intentionally do it. It's a war zone and it's terrible that it happened. It was fired by Israel.

Just be like, yeah, the Israelis fired a rocket and it killed one of our journalists. We condemn this and we urge the military to be more careful with indiscriminate rockets that are being fired into southern Lebanon. Why is this difficult? You know, it's not difficult. You don't have to just sit there and soothe everybody's feelings. But most likely they did it, Crystal, because they don't want to get kicked out of Israel. You know, they don't want the Israeli government to retaliate against the Reuters journalists.

And, yeah, as you said, I think it's true. From the direction of Israel. Yeah, from the direction. Like, just say it. It's fine. It really is. You know, people will be like, yeah, stuff happens in the middle of a war. It's terrible. That's why it's awful whenever any journalist is killed in any conflict zone. And it is a job oftentimes that is fraught with risk. As we've had journalists who've been killed in Ukraine, we've had journalists killed before, you know before in Iraq and many of these other types of places. I'm not trying to morally equivocate. It's just being honest and straight up with people

is the only and the best way, I think, to operate with this. And it does a disservice. And also, can you imagine being the family of the guy who was killed? Right. And you can't even say? And you can't even say something like that. These are people who employed you.

You died whenever you were just trying to do your job pointing a camera. I'm sure you knew, you know, a little bit of what you were getting into, but you didn't think you were going to die. So I just think it's awful, you know, that this happened and that they just try and downplay it like this. So look, we're trying our best here as well. And I like to think that, you know, we genuinely are trying to provide a relatively like, or at least like a zoomed out view of a conflict through which people who are new to this can try and wrap their heads around all the complex nature. And the unfortunate thing I think that happens in situations like this is they zoom in onto a single part and they try to pretend that

this all just happened. And look, I understand that maybe in the first four hours, but we're a week almost into this and we're on the precipice of a major war in the Middle East. And that is when I would hope cooler heads try to prevail. Although, unfortunately, I don't see a way there, given the way that our political establishment is, given the way that Hamas has decided to behave, and given the way that the Israeli government has decided to behave. And what we always try to speak up for here are innocent people who get caught up in these. Because every conflict, no matter if it's just or not, has led to colossal losses of life, especially in the modern era. And it's something that we have tried as a state to always try to move past. And unfortunately, we just keep moving right back to where things are, which is why war itself is so awful. I just deeply fear that we learned nothing from our failed, disastrous, brutal, horrific response

to 9-11. It really seems like we learned nothing. I mean, the same type of rhetoric, the same type of, you know, unchecked desire for revenge with no plan for, okay, what comes after the revenge? What is next? What is the goal? How do we actually achieve peace and security for Israelis and for Palestinians? That's the piece that the demands for censorship, the shaping of the narrative, all of these things feel like such a flashback to that time. And so, you know, try to think about what we learned from those mistakes. Try as best we can to apply them to the current situation, which is always difficult when you've just watched this absolute monstrous slaughter of innocent civilians. So that's, you know, that's what we're trying to do here as best

we can is not only bring you exactly what's happening on the ground, but also situate it in terms of the past, in terms of the risks for the future. So, you know, we're going to continue to cover it as best we can. As you guys have seen, we've kind of gotten all in on this because I think it is such an important moment, potentially really pivotal moment. And so we're going to continue to bring you as extensive coverage as we possibly can. We also, though, have additional focus group results that we can bring to all of you this week. And thank you so much again to all of you who have enabled all of this work. We are incredibly grateful.

It means a lot to us. As us and the crew, we are all working overtime in order to make sure all of this happens. So we appreciate it very much. BreakingPoints.com if you're able to support us. We'll see you all tomorrow. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John. Who's not the father? We'll be money back. Hold up. They could lose their family and millions of dollars?

Yep. Find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success.

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