Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 10/22/25: Graham Platner Accused Of Nazi Tattoo, KJP Covers Up Biden Age, Energy Price Spike, New Irish President

Episode Date: October 22, 2025

Ryan and Emily discuss Graham Platner accused of Nazi tattoo, KJP covers for Biden age disaster, energy prices spike as Trump axes grants, new Irish President.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Let's roll that and we're going to get into it. The reason that we are showing this video is because at the very end, you can see a tattoo on your chest. And I've been told that some of your political opponents are telling reporters that that tattoo has a Nazi affiliation. And I would like to know, is that accurate? Are you a secret Nazi? I am not a secret Nazi. Actually, if you read through my Reddit comments, I think you can pretty much figure out where I stand on Nazism and anti-Semitism and racism in general. I would say a lifelong opponent.

And we went ashore and split Croatia, myself and a few of the other machine gun squad leaders. And we got very inebriated. And we did what Marines on Liberty do. And we decided to go get a tattoo. And we went to a tattoo parlor in split Croatia. and we chose a terrifying-looking skull and crossbones off the wall because we were Marines and skulls and crossbones are a pretty standard military thing. And we got those tattoos.

And then we all moved on with our lives. All right. And so the story is that he went into a Croatian tattoo parlor, picked skull and crossbones off the wall. Turned out to have some Nazi symbolism. If you do walk drunkenly into a Croatian tattoo parlor, you are extremely likely to want, especially if you ask for a skull and crossroads, to wind up with some type of Nazi symbolism on your body. Your first mistake is drunkenly walking into a Croatian tattoo parlor because it is a high likelihood you walk out. And so we can put up D2, you know, here's his, here's the side by side. That's the, what, the Totenkov thing.

Sagar is going to, I'm sure, Sagar should come on the Friday show and give us his full download on this. So, yeah, okay, pretty clear. I'm like, looks like Grateful Dead to me. But, yes, clear. So last night, New Apo came out, which said that at one point of Reddit, he said that he wrote Antifa Super Soldier on his, like, armor. Either I think it was in the Army or maybe back in the Marines. So we now have a candidate who is being accused in the same day of being fascist and anti-fascist. We call it a full platter.

The full platter. Now, the way that this was revealed is that at his sister-in-law's wedding, and he talked about this on Ponce of America, he performed a Miley Cyrus song with his shirt off. We all been there. And somebody, and that's how people notice, wait a minute, what's this skull and crossbones you got on there? So we have to watch a little bit of Grand Platner performing Miley Cyrus. Okay, so I overpromised and under-delivered here. We can't actually play this because YouTube is going to take down the video if we play some Miley Cyrus. You will just, you know the song, though.

This is Wrecking Ball. This is Graham Platner singing Wrecking Ball to his entire family. You said he was shirtless. He is also pantless. And he said those are his Marine Silkes. Absolutely hammered. Ed, so you're Miley Cyrus. That's how people found the tattoo.

And Ryan, you keep mentioning APO, shorthand for opposition research, meaning that another campaign has, pays people to dig up this information, put it in a file, and then the campaign drips it out to different media outlets sort of in a strategic way

to maximize the pain. So maybe they're still sitting on stuff. Maybe they did this because Janet Mills, as soon as she announced her candidacy, got this predictable wave of backlash for being 77 years old and trying to become a senator with a six-year term amidst all of this genuine concern about Democrats hiding Biden's infirmities. So the oppo comes out right away. That's what this appo very clearly is. We discussed last week, Chris and I discussed last week, how bizarre it was when Platner's old P-Hustle Reddit posts popped, that they had been screencapped within hours of them,

being posted, and they were from years ago. So before anybody seemingly knew he had a career, someone, unless there's a way on the internet to go back and make it, to find these posts in a way that shows they were posted one hour ago, three days ago and screenshot them when they popped in the K-Files CNN story, it looks like somebody screenshotsed them years ago. And maybe he had some enemies that got, were somehow... Was a way back machine capturing them? Could that have been it? I mean, it's pretty hard to believe that Wayback Machine was capturing things in a way that showed up as three hours ago from 2020 or 2021. Right, yeah, I don't. It's all weird.

But that is just to say this is opposition research very clearly. It's not people organically stumbling into these videos. And Platner preempted it by going on Pod Save and releasing the video himself, which was a pretty smart move. And releasing it all right after Mills announces her run, just was kind of an in-your-face like this is Zappo from us. And it's not obvious yet how this is going to play out.

Not at all. The D.C. political class is telling me he's cooked. They told me that Donald Trump was cooked. Probably 35 different times. Or more than that. And Trump is singular, of course. His former political director who seems to have had a real falling out and has left the campaign. We can put up this next element,

Genevieve McDonald. She wrote, I've run out of self-restraint, worse than when the, I don't even, actually, I don't know what's going on with the Red Eats. Maybe you can tell me this, but Graham has an anti-Semitic tattoo on his chest. He's not an idiot. He's a military history buff. Maybe he didn't know it when he got it, but he got it years ago and he should have had it covered up because he knows damn well what it means. His campaign released it themselves to some podcast bros, along with a video of him shirtless and drunk at a wedding to try to get ahead of it. The vault is open for the GOP to effing crush any dreams we had in the general. And literally everyone I know is fighting. fighting with each other on social media. We cannot be this painfully stupid. And so the best argument I've heard has been, yeah, okay, like it seems extremely plausible that some drunken Marines walked in and got a skull and crossbones. But you should cover it up once you realize what it is. So I think that's a reasonable criticism. Unless you're doing some like Grateful Dead subversion, we're like rejecting the potency of this.

thing by like draining it of its meaning i don't like i don't know so we you know but now according to platyner he only just learned of this according to um some reporting from anonymous acquaintances of his from 10 years ago he used to be shirtless to tune in yeah which i never saw you never saw that okay um and would talk about it that that he kind of knew he had accidentally gotten this thing and but i knew what it was by 10 years ago but the idea that it makes him a secret Nazi is completely insane. No, what would it, it would make them kind of an idiot, maybe, or something like that. Or reckless, like not getting rid of it.

But go ahead. Well, I was just, he clearly never thought that he was going to run for Senate. And so he just, like, was a sort of, I don't know if this is probably too derogatory, but kind of a fail son who was bopping around and struggling a lot after coming back from the horrors of Fallujah. And, yeah, it's like probably was bartending. probably not thinking too hard about whether or not he was ruining his career by telling this amusing story on how, the point is, this has become a political controversy because his opponents

are weaponizing it cynically. And that's what politics is. It's not surprising. If you're Janet Mills, of course, you're using this. Does Janet Mills literally think Graham Platner is a secret Nazi? No, is she trying to convince the people of Maine that he's a secret Nazi? Yes, that is completely insane. And this entire, um, this entire, um, this entire, controversy with his Reddit posts will have you believe that he's some type of anarchist and also that he's a communist and a Nazi because he was he's been posting weird shit on the internet for years and has a tattoo no he's literally just like a stoner who posted all kinds of like his musings on the internet over a period of time and who served and has struggled a lot because of his service and that's what makes politics so insufferable is that this entire DC scaffolding tries to suppress and just smuggle in the crib any normal American who wants to get into politics. Because normal Americans are not perfectly polished. They're not, they're Marjor Taylor Green and Graham Platner. Like, they're not used to being

scripted political robots. And that comes with some genuine baggage. Like, it's genuinely baggage that you have a Nazi tattoo. You should have gotten rid of that shit. Instead of skeletons in the closet, you got skeletons inked on your chest. And I would say just ethically, like, if anybody has a Nazi tattoo that they got drunkenly accidentally,

when you learn that, you should cover it up. Like, that's what I would do if I had that. Yeah. But if he just learned about it now, maybe he will get it covered up. I don't know. Now, from a political perspective, I don't think that you disqualify a candidate

And we're going to talk in a moment to Rokane about this, who was endorsed Plattner. I don't think that if the Democratic Party wants to become a majoritarian party again and get normal people and particularly men to support them, they cannot say that if you have bad posts on Reddit or mistakes in your past, that you can't run in the future because then all you're going to get is Pete Buttigieg's. And actually, it appears to be a Pete Buttigieg guy. A guy from Pete Buttigieg's orbit who's been doing this. Apo, he'll have more reporting on that soon. Otherwise, you become just a party of Pete's, Mayor Pete's, and we have seen that that does not work. Nope. So you've already tried that.

Now you've got to try the other thing. And it's not going to be easy the whole time. Nope. You're going to have to have some tolerance for normal people. Yeah. Chuck Schumer seems to think that Janet Mills is the safe pick. They have had the safe pick five times. Susan Collins is going strong. All right, so let's bring in Representative Rokana.

Joining us now to discuss what is truly a crucial crossroads for Democrats is Representative Rokana, who endorsed Graham Platner early and has stood by him so far. Congressman Kana, thanks for joining us. Thank you, Ryan. Still standing by him. Yes. Yes. And I was going to ask that because you're in this oppo kind of vicious cycle where it's, you know, it's going to be hit after hit after hit, and people are going to keep coming back to, okay, what about now? What about now? What about now? I wanted to start with Chuck Schumer, who was asked about the main Senate race and came out effectively with an unsurprising endorsement of Janet Mills, who's the main governor. Let's roll D5 here. Are you supporting Governor Janet Mills in the primary, and do you consider Grant Platteners recently unearthed comments disqualifying?

Look, I'll let the people of Maine decide the second. We think that Janet Mills is the best candidate to retire Susan Collins. She's a tested two-term governor, and the people of Maine have an enormous amount of affection and respect for her. All right, so she's a tested two-term governor. I've seen that phrase going around. They seem to like the phrase tested, contrasting that with Platner, who they're implying and, you know, correctly, is untested. So what's your response when you see that from Chuck Schumer? Well, this is the game, the estate. establishment plays. I had to go up against an incumbent twice, and all the incumbents rallied around my conda. And the reason that they do this is they know these people, and it's a club.

And if you're part of the club, then you get the blacking of the DSCC and if you don't know them, and if you don't know the donors, you don't. And people are tired of it. They're tired of the DSEC putting its thumb on the scale in Maine, Texas, in Michigan, in these Senate primaries. I thought they learned the lesson from 2016 that the party should stay neutral. Now, frankly, the party was pretty neutral in 2020 in the primary elections, but they need to be, in the presidential primaries, they need to do that now for Senate and House races. And in my view, is it actually just fuels Plattner's campaign. Well, yeah, I was going to ask, does the DSCC seem to have it, not just

the DSCC, but like the kind of official party establishment seem to have any awareness that their attacks on Platner could potentially backfire? Do they seem to have any awareness of what you were just describing is that people are sick of it? We can put this next element on the screen. This is a report from Punch Bulls, John Bresnahan, who says, when pressed on Platner's Nazi tattoos, Sanders, Bernie Sanders, lashed out at the, quote, corrupt campaign finance system, adding, we don't have enough candidates in this country that will take on the powers that be and fight for the working class. that's not surprising from Bernie Sanders, Congressman, but do they seem to have any sense of

awareness? That's actually how a lot of average Democratic voters react to this type of thing? I don't think they understand how disconnected the Beltway is from the base. I mean, two-thirds of Democratic voters want new leaders. And why do they want new leaders? First, the current leadership got us two dental terms of Donald Trump. Like, how could we say that's a success? By definition, it's a failure. In any sports team, in any business, if you had leadership and you kept losing, you would replace the leadership. The second point is that they are concerned that when you have working class candidates like Graham Platner and they're willing to tax billionaires and they're willing to call out the horrors

of the war in Gaza, they're going to face huge scrutiny. And these aren't perfect candidates, but they want people who are going to question the establishment because they're not concerned about a candidate's perfect biography. They're concerned about whether they're going to fight for them. What about the argument from Schumer that it's just too much of a risk to run somebody like this, given the weaknesses that he has, you're going to get hit with these ads? You know, he's anti-fah, he's also a fascist, and therefore you need to run somebody tested and safer like Janet Mills. What about the pure kind of pragmatic argument they're making?

We tried to say for alternative. The last time against Susan Collins, I respectfully forget the candidate's name, but she was the safe choice and she lost badly. And we've tried the safe candidate a number of times against Donald Trump. I mean, Clinton, Hillary Clinton was the safe choice. Biden was the safe choice. Harris was the safe choice. The safe choices aren't working.

Why? The American people keep telling us they want change. want something that's going to take on the system. So why are we trying the old playbook again and again and again? And by the way, the main voters, there's one place I do agree with Senator Insurance, for main voters to decide. Let them decide. They'll be able to factor in electability. You don't need to do opo dumps and put your thumb on the scale. Let there be a contest. As it is, Mill starts out with so many advantages. She has more name I-eie. She's a two-term governor. She has more fundraising. Do you really need to do the op-dum?

dump? I mean, come on. Bring us inside conversations to the extent that you can what are happening behind the scenes about the Platner oppo dump that we're now like a week into. You had endorsed Platner, so I imagine Congressman, you're getting some feedback, maybe some heat from people who say, what are you doing standing by this guy? What's the reaction? Like, what are the conversations like behind the scenes about what the party should do when it comes to Platner? Well, I am getting some pushback. And what I say is, look, I think some of the comments were despicable. And obviously, no one should be having a tattoo, and that's horrendous.

But we have to ask a fundamental question in this country. And that is, do we want our political governing class to be like the classmates I had at Yale Law School, some of them who dreamed of being president of the United States from the age of 12, who were not wanting to go to any parties because they were concerned someone would take a picture of them and were scripting their lives to be on the Supreme Court or the Senate or president from the day they were student body president. Or do we want normal people also having a chance at these offices who make mistakes, who have regrets, who say dumb things, and who grow? And really, that's the question. And if you want all my Yale Law School buddies to be running America, fine.

I think some of the Yale law school folks are fine, but I'd like to have a more cross-section of America at running the country. That's really the issue. Yeah, and I think the bigger problem is that the country has had an opportunity to address that question themselves, and they have rejected those Yale kids. You're like, no, actually, this isn't who we want. So I'm wondering if it might actually end up being beneficial to Platner here, because he has, a lot of what politics is nowadays is people want to know who your enemies are

and what people are saying about you and there's something kind of so absurd about coming after a Marine for a skull and bones tattoo that I feel like it might make his own it might make his critics

look deeply out of touch even acknowledging like okay now that he's learned that says actually a Nazi tattoo. You should probably do something about it. We need to, and we'll see what he does about it. But the broader question of getting attacked for a tattoo in a country that is a wash and ink strikes me as could actually be beneficial to him. Well, I think what's beneficial to him is the sense that the entire establishment is coming

down on it. You have the powerful Senate majority leader opposing him. You have the traditional media pundits opposing him. And then it actually, it actually, actually gives him a chance to say, look, I'm actually changed. This is what they're afraid of. They're afraid of my positions and taxing wealth and standing up for the working class and being for Medicare for all and in calling for not having a blank check to Netanyahu. That's why they're going after me. But I think he's also handled it well. I mean, he's been honest, he's been transparent. He's admitted wrong. A lot of times in my view in politics, these quote scandals, it's more about a test of how you handle it. Do people think you're

honest? Do they think you're straightforward? Do they think you understand what the issue is? None of us are perfect. When I've run, everyone has criticisms. And I think what people are saying is, okay, does this person, is he dealing with it in a way that reflects character? So it's less about what Graham Platner said. It's more about what his character is today that I think will determine the success of his campaign. Last question for me, Ryan has posted to the effect that this is a really crucial test for the Democratic Party. Congressman, do you see that in the same way? Is this a sort of test for the party going forward as to whether it'll be a party of, you know, just Pete Buttigieg, people who wanted to be president since they were student body president, as you mentioned,

congressman, or a party for all Americans, average Americans, working class Americans? I think it is a big test. It's a test of two things. One, is this party going to allow for outsider voices. You know, even though I, for example, went to Yale Law School as a son of Indian immigrants and not having a kind of the third in my name or a legacy, I always felt a little bit on the outside of this quote-unquote room governing class. But are we going to allow people who have had unconventional paths, whether it's Grand Platner, whether it's Oramandhi, whoever it is, to be part of the conversation. But there's a broader issue. And that is, Are we going to be a politics of ideas and vision and substance?

Are we going to be a politics of personal destruction and scandal and being against things? So much of the Democratic brand right now is anti-Trump. It's trying to point out all his flaws. And now we're sort of trying to point out all the flaws of platinum. How about we be a party that stands for ideas going forward? Taxing billionaires being for Medicare for all. having child care, having human rights foreign policy, having a job's vision in the world of AI. I think that the question is, are we going to be capable of being a party of big politics with big ideas?

That's the real test. And when it comes to resolving this tattoo question, do you think that Platner could get off the hook if he said that actually this is an homage to the Azov Battalion? or I'm going to cover it up with an Aza Brigade tattoo. Do you think that would kind of get him? Because the party establishment, it seems okay with Nazi regalia in some circumstances. Ryan, I think only 0.001% of the American people would understand that analogy. And they're all in Washington, D.C.

They're on Langney. I led a letter a long time ago talking about that issue in Ukraine and how we needed to confront that anti-Semitism. I think the way Plattner is dealing with it, though, is it's fine, which is to say I regret it. I'm going to remove it. It was something that I'm not proud of, but there are a lot of people like him who do things that they regret. And the question is how they grow and what type of person they are. But, you know, look, I don't agree with a lot of President Clinton's politics today in terms of some of the policies.

But one of the things he said in New Hampshire is they're making it all about my character and I'm making it all about yours. I'm going to be doing this to see what is in it for you and what we can do for you. Richard Nixon famously said American politicians are like toilet fixtures. They don't have to look beautiful. People just want to make sure they work. And ultimately, what people are judged on is what is your ideas for improving the material lives of Americans, until the American dream is done?

What are your lives are taking on power? And I think that's where the election is going to be won or lost. I think you said President Clinton. I think you meant President Trump. That one, yeah. But Congressman Kana, thank you so much for joining us. This is a fascinating moment for Democrats. Really appreciate you being here.

Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. Up next, Carid Jean-Pierre. Hey there, I'm Kyle McLaughlin. You might know me as that guy from Twin Peer. Sex in the City, or just the Internet's dad.

I have a new podcast called What Are We Even Doing, where I embark on a noble quest to understand the brilliant chaos of youth culture. Daddy's looking good. Each week, I invite someone fascinating to join me, actors, musicians, creatives, highly evolved digital life forms, and we talk about what they love. Sometimes I'll drizzle a little honey in there too from feeling sexy in the morning. What keeps them going?

And you're maybe my biggest competition on social media. Like when a kid says bra to me. And how they're navigating this high-speed roller coaster we call reality. In Australia, you're looking out for snakes, spiders, and f***is. Right. Hey, he's no train McDougall. This is like the comment section of my Instagram. Join me and my delightful guests every Thursday.

And let's get weird together in a good way. Listen to what are we even doing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven. Two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one will end up dead. The other tried for murder. Not once.

People went wild. Not twice. Stunned. But three times. John and Ann Bender are rich and attractive, and they're devoted to each other. They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular, circular home, high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble, and our couple retreat from reality.

They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to hell in heaven on the I-heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The forces shaping the world's economies and financial markets can be hard to spot. Even though they are such a powerful player in finance, you wouldn't really know that you are interacting with them. And even harder to understand.

Donald Trump's trade war, 2.0, is only accelerating the process of de-dollarization, which in a way is jargon for people turning away from the dollar. That is where the big take from Bloomberg podcast comes in, to connect to the the dots. How unusual is a deal like this? Unprecedented. Every weekday afternoon, we dive deep into one big global business story. The biggest story of the reaction of the oil market to the conflict in the Middle East is one of what has not happened. Katie, you told me that ETFs are your favorite thing. They are. Explain that. Why is that the case? And unpack what it means for you. Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become

outsize indicators of inflation. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Former White House Press Secretary Karin Jean-Pierre is on a book tour selling her new book called Independent, which is out and doesn't seem to be demonstrating much independence. We have an incredible mashup of Karin-Jean-Pierre reacting to various people. in the media who are now pretending to be very tough on this question of Biden's health cover-up. So let's go ahead and roll E1 to see how Karin-Jean-Pierre is taking these questions.

I got to see Joe Biden almost every day. And this is a question that I take very serious. I want everybody to know that I take this question incredibly seriously. I do. I take this so seriously. I take this so seriously. She's so bad at this. She was so bad at this.

That's right. She's serious. At least we know that. But she's like, this is why she was a, I think she's actually one of the worst White House press secretaries, not for any political reasons, but just it was so, I mean, with her, you always felt the trick if you're a press secretary is to use the talking points without sounding like you're on the talking points. You always know that she's like reading off a script in her head when she's doing it. And it sounds so inauthent. And dare I say, unindependent, right? Which is the title of a book she's selling by saying. saying the Democratic Party was insufficiently pro-Biden. That is her take in this book, that the party was not loyal enough to Joe Biden, which is why she's no longer a Democrat, but is now identifying as an independent. Just an incredible concept. We were talking about the galaxy brain take earlier. This is a real galaxy brain at book length take from Korean Jumpier. It's not working. I just checked the Amazon page. The book came out yesterday, 192 pages, which is extremely thin, by the way, for a book. They want about 30 bucks for it.

It's rank is currently 24,107. For a book that was on an author who was on Colbert, The View, all of these other things that we're showing you here, like that's not good. 24,000 means you maybe sold 50 copies or 100 copies on Amazon over the last day. Like, that's just a rough gauge. It's not good. I think we have a couple more.

We can do E2. Here she is on Colbert, where she got, there aren't many Democrats that get a rough ride on Colbert, but she kind of did. Let's roll E2. I saw a guy who I had not seen backstage at the benefit that I did. It seemed like a dramatically different person.

And at 81 years old, that's not entirely unexpected. You can imagine why people got so worried. So a couple of things. I got to see Joe Biden almost every day. And this is a question that I take very seriously. I never, no one has ever said he has an age. No one ever said that he would make jokes about it. He would acknowledge it.

And he would say, yes, I know I don't speak this as well as I used to. I don't walk as well as I used to. No one is saying that he didn't age. I'm talking about, was he, did he have the questions that I was getting, the mental acuity? Was he able to govern? And the man that I saw nearly every day was someone who was engaging, understood policy and was always putting the American people first. And it showed, it showed in what we were able to get done.

I remember, I saw him hear me every day. I don't think anybody questioned his heart or his policies, but it takes more than that to be the president of the United States. And in a moment of great pressure on stage, we saw someone shock us and worry us. And no, nothing could assuage that worry. So I don't think it was necessarily a betrayal of Joe Biden as other people saying we don't think we were shown Joe Biden that you saw.

I saw every day a really ugly assault on someone who had 50 plus years of experience and who, again, objectively had done a good job as president of the United States. And it was heartbreaking to see that type of behavior. I think all of that, everything you're saying, I cannot, I cannot fault the factual basis of what you're saying or your feelings about it. But what happened was the debate performance. Everything is downstream

of that. And no one is saying that the debate performance wasn't shocking, wasn't a disappointment. No one is saying that. Disappointment is such a light term. I use your words. It was harrowing. I use your words. Okay, look, listen, we're never going to agree on this. She also appeared on CBS Sunday morning and with Tim Miller with thrall E3. You even write, Corrine, that you were on the plane with him going to the debate and you didn't see anything. Well, when we were hard on the Air Force One going to the debate, you got to remember his campaign, people were on the team, his family was on the team. I actually was one of those rare trips that I didn't really see him until after the debate, even though I was on the plane. So really, I take, I want everybody to know that I take this question incredibly seriously.

I do. I was his White House press secretary, which means I had a role that saw him practically every day and traveled with him. And you saw enough for more than 95%. We've always said, we're not going to say, oh, he didn't age. He aged. And he poked fun at it. We always owned up. And with age comes what happens when you get older.

Which is what I, what I, but when we talk about the mental account. And again, I take this very, very seriously. I never saw anyone who wasn't there. I saw someone who was always engaged. I saw someone who understood policy, pushed us on the policy, and also understood history. Sure. And he didn't talk about them that well, though. He couldn't talk about it.

No, no, no. Wait, first of all, first of all, he did talk about them. Whether it broke through or not, he did. Tim, he did talk about. I mean, he talked with. Way less to the press than Donald Trump does. Way less. And he wasn't out there at all.

He wasn't good off the cuff. He wasn't doing press conferences. Let's just be real. Like, he didn't do the paint events. That's not true. Tim, you're conflating all of it. That's what you're doing. No, first you're telling me he didn't talk well about it.

Then you're telling me he didn't talk at all. He didn't do either. He didn't talk very often. And when he did, it wasn't very good. He sounded very old. Maybe you weren't paying attention to what we were doing at the White House. I paid attention that I'm with you on the policies. I'm talking about his performance.

For K. JP to try to tell the American public, or to tell American public through Tim Miller, that he addressed the press frequently and did so with the plum. Incredible. She does not take this seriously, despite her claims repeatedly to the contrary. Does she think she takes it seriously? I mean, that's like what's, does she think anybody is buying this? What is the market for this that she thinks exists?

It's like actually really impossible to imagine. The only reason, by the way, she's getting tough questions now, I actually think this might explain some of it. She doesn't expect to be treated this way by the media because she really never was when she had any power, right? When she was in charge of the Biden White House's communications, everyone was bullied out of covering Biden's health. Every single network that is now acting as though she's the worst person in the world was intimidated by her because she said, we aren't giving you access if you report on this. We're not, like listen to what Alex Thompson has said about this. That's how people who tried to cover that story were treated.

by the Biden White House, now that she has no power because she has so attached to the Biden legacy and the Biden brand, which is out of favor in the Democratic Party. The Biden's no longer have power in the Democratic Party. It's only then that people in the media turn on her. And I don't think she was expecting it. I don't think she is used to being treated this way by the media. In fact, in one of those interviews, she clutches, it was a morning jail. She clutches to the side. She goes, I'm a black queer woman. And people like me get taken for granted as though it would be her shield from tough criticism. But Biden's are out of power.

They don't have any clout left in the dumb party. So she's actually not being treated with kid gloves and withering under it. Yeah, the theme of the book is that the party betrayed Joe Biden, but I think you're right that she feels a sense of betrayal as well or maybe primarily. And it also, that entire theme raises a question of entitlement. like why is Joe Biden entitled to a second term when he didn't even he he he betrayed the

American people by suggesting to them that he was going to be a bridge to the next generation he was going to be a one-term candidate and then barrel the head trying to run if there was a betrayal he's he's the one that carried out the betrayal but the idea that of a betrayal requires the public owing him something and no politicians is owed anything. And so that, the whole premise, like, kind of falls apart there. I think that has to, I mean, that's the only way that I can explain what's happening with Corrine Jump here.

So I'm glad you looked up the book sales. I was wondering how it was doing after seeing all of this. You're not even curious. I just checked Ken Vogel's book is doing better. Let's go. All right. Well, I get another reminder to tune in for our weekend interview with Ken Vogel. I was going to say, we'll continue to follow the story in the future, but I doubt we will.

No, we won't. Let's hope that we don't. All right. Up next is John Powers, CEO of Clean Capital to talk about why you're paying so much in your electric bill. Hey there, I'm Kyle McLaughlin. You might know me as that guy from Twin Peaks, Sex in the City, or just the Internet's dad. I have a new podcast called What Are We Even Doing, where I embark on a noble quest to understand the brilliant chaos of youth culture. Daddy's looking good.

Each week, I invite someone fascinating to join me. actors, musicians, creatives, highly evolved digital life forms, and we talk about what they love. Sometimes I'll drizzle a little honey in there, too, from feeling sexy in the morning. What keeps them going? And you're maybe my biggest competition on social media. Like when a kid says bra to me.

And how they're navigating this high-speed roller coaster we call reality. In Australia, you're looking out for snakes, spiders, and f***is. Right. Hey, he's no Trey McDougall. This is like the common section of my Instagram. Join me and my delightful guests every Thursday And let's get weird together in a good way Listen to what are we even doing

On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts Or wherever you get your podcasts In the new podcast, hell in heaven Two young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle To start over But one will end up dead The other tried for murder Not once, people won't

weren't wild. Not twice. Stunned. But three times. John and Ann Bender are rich and attractive, and they're devoted to each other. They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular circular home

high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble, and our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control.

Listen to hell in heaven on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The forces shaping the world's economies and financial markets can be hard to spot. Even though they are such a powerful player in finance, you wouldn't really know that you are interacting with them. And even harder to understand. Donald Trump's trade war. is only accelerating the process of de-dollarization, which in a way is jargon for people turning away from the dollar. That is where the big take from Bloomberg podcast comes in to connect the dots.

How unusual is a deal like this? Unprecedented. Every weekday afternoon, we dive deep into one big global business story. The biggest story of the reaction of the oil market to the conflict in the Middle East is one of what has not happened. Katie, you told me that ETFs are your favorite. thing. They are. Explain that. Why is that the case? And unpack what it means for you. Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsized indicators of inflation. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Democrats are pushing back hard against the Trump administration for canceling billions of dollars worth of energy projects. if we can put up the first element on the screen here, Martin Heinrich, the top Democrat on the Energy Committee, is saying that as a result of the cancellation of over $7 billion worth of contracts, we're going to see staggering increases in energy prices for the American people. And he argues that they're canceled completely illegally because contracts, the money had already been appropriated by the Biden administration and contracts had already been reached

on these projects. He also noted that coincidentally, 218 of the 233 projects, ranging from battery storage to hydrogen solar, were in states with Democratic governors. Shocking. Now, energy that's produced in blue states, by the way, does go out to red states. But whatever. Anyway, I put up this next element. This is on the heels of this, the Trump administration's cancellation of the largest, what was going to be the largest solar facility in the countries, would have produced 6.2 gigawatts of energy. When it was finished, that's enough to power two million homes. This was out in the southwest, which is like everybody, energy starved.

So to walk us through what all this means is John Powers, he's the CEO of Clean Capital, and he's joining us to, joining us this afternoon. John, welcome to breaking points. Thank you. Thanks for having me. And so, John, can you talk to us a little bit about what the energy industry is facing broadly, but the clean energy industry in particular over the last year? Yeah, I mean, the last six months in particular have been incredibly challenging, really from an understanding of where we're going. You know, we have invested over a billion and a half dollars in over 27 states, we've built over half a gigawatt worth of projects and are selling to customers that want to buy our

electricity, everyone from Fortune 100s to folks buying community solar. The reality is there's a massive demand for what we do, but the policy uncertainty that this administration is putting in front of us really has put huge roadblocks into getting projects built and financed. The reality is, though, that as the electricity prices continue to rise in this country and they are rising for a very simple reason. There's a growing demand like we've never seen before, right? The last 20 years, we've got a pretty steady state demand in this country, but because the data center and other electrification of everything efforts, electricity prices are going up significantly. Here in Buffalo, where I am, they expect a 20% rate height next year. So what we're doing is adjusting to that new

reality and looking to where we and how we can build projects. And the Which Biden bill was at the IRA I forget I always mix up the Oh IRA yeah BBB became IRA Yeah BBB became IRA and then there's the OBBBB at this administration

But tell us maybe a little bit about how With the IRA credits There were some adaptations that had to be made Afterwards to get stuff actually built And off of the ground and that was in In the process when the Trump administration came in And canceled a lot of this So what is your, maybe you can give us a sense of sort of the trajectory or the plateau

might be a better word to use at this point. Yeah, hopefully it's not a plateau, first of all. And I think we have to even step back further than the Biden legislation from a few years ago and look at what's happened over the last decade in this industry. Really, it was truly a nascent industry and is, you know, looking back as far as 2010. And what has happened as policy is aligned, technology is proven out, and finance has really moved behind this industry, we've seen it grow, and the demand for the power that we produce is significant. So when major corporations like Walmart or the tech companies and others are signing

long-term power arrangements for electricity today, they never did that 15 years ago, right? They just bought from the utility. But they're seeing better ways of budget their electricity. When you think about things like solar, right, the input to the solar, the sun doesn't change. So you can really budget out your power over 20 years. Those economics have really proved themselves out, It's brought efficiency to our market. We've gotten better at being able to build these things and get them in the ground. As a result, our market is really flourished. And unfortunately, you know, we were at a really amazing point literally at the beginning

of this year where we went, for instance, from 14th in the world in solar manufacturing to third because incentives behind things like the IRA were getting manufacturing built. By the way, in many Republican districts, the governor of Georgia is a great example of someone who took wild advantage of this and went to an area in Georgia where it was literally dying. It was at the carpet center of the world that was dying for manufacturing,

attracted major solar manufacturers. And now we will be a net exporter of solar panels. We were at least on track to do that in the next two years, right? So those policies were working. This administration forecasted a year ago when Trump was in Houston and raised a billion dollars

from the fossil fuel, or said to the fossil fuel executives, give me a billion dollars, I'm going to save your industry. put a fracking executive in charge of the Department of Energy. And now it's been doing everything they can to slow the role of what is in solar a $70 billion industry, right? So back to your question, we now have a new policy landscape to execute under. And from Clean Capital's perspective, we're looking at where and how we can invest and bring projects. Unfortunately, they've narrowed the scope of where we can go.

But it doesn't mean we're not building projects. We just had a ribbon cutting yesterday here in Western New York, where we put, solar on a brownfield that was at one point one of the most polluted parts of the entire country so what trump will say is that look uh wind and solar is a scam uh energy should be something that you make money from not something that you have to subsidize so what is the what is the counter argument to his his claim there well first of all they're wildly subspossible has been subsidized for a hundred plus years so the the the scam is actually the opposite right we are have spent billions, if not trillions, in fossil fuel subsidies.

So let's just start off with, yeah, let's have a level playing field. And we are bringing infrastructure capital to grow things like solar and storage. That was not done 10 years ago, right? It was a high risk market. But this is growing worldwide. You know, I would hold up my cell phone route and tell you this is where the world's going in terms of mobile phones. If we try to go back to the phone that was connected to the wall, because that's what the president

wanted to do, all of us would be up in arms, right? That's the transition that's happening right now in energy. And the question is, do we want to be the world leaders in this? Or do we want to go back to trying to get things done in a way that, and often, Ryan, I heard you talk about in the data center show a while back. You know, it takes seven to ten years to build things like a natural gas plant or a nuclear plant. The demand we have is growing super fast, The cheapest, fastest way to do it is renewables. And we can bring all of those electrons to the grid regardless. So let us compete and we'll win.

But they're putting handcuffs on us. You know, this BLM cancellation is a good example, right? They're looking at a project that has really taken probably hundreds of millions of dollars in investment ready to go, and they're cutting it off for purely political reasons. And that, unfortunately, is going to cost the electricity payers in that region significantly, because that new power isn't going to come online and there's nothing to replace it in the near term. Yeah, so can you talk a little bit about that, the handcuffs?

So I think that is the best pushback to Trump where he says, hey, no subsidies, everybody should have to compete. But taking a project that had hundreds of millions of dollars in investment and approvals or taking these 233 contracts that were doled out and just canceling them, that doesn't sound like a level playing field to me, but what else in a regulatory framework is happening that is making it not just that you're on a level playing field but it's that it's actively handicapping you against the fossil fuel industry

it's that uncertainty right and when we think about the way you invest in anything whether it be renewable energy or a new technology or building real estate right the less uncertainty the more capital will flow to that market they've entered uncertainty around the tax credits around how you're going to look at something called fiac which is like where you're getting it's a very in the weeds thing in the policy but it's you know whether or not we can get any any any part of a system from china right you know american manufacturing is ramped up significantly but still within the supply chain there's still bits that come from from china so how do we address that and if you're going to put that handicap on us let's also put it on the fossil fuel industry

good luck building a natural gas plant today that no bit of that natural gas plant comes from from China, right? Those are the type of handicaps that they're trying to implement. And the sector of energy knows what he's doing, right? He is an extremist who's come in to try to handicap this industry, and he's doing everything he can to do so. One thing I've heard often from people in the solar industry, and I'm curious if you can elaborate on this a bit, is that the technology is, advancements in the technology would surprise most people

if they realize kind of the potential. And like it's actually, I say this is somebody on the right who likes the idea of solar because it gets you off the grid, right? Like you can, if you have your own solar capabilities, there's just, you know, there's something independent about that

if you're able to run your home on solar or something like that. But one of the things that I hear a lot is this is like leaps and bounds. Like when we're looking at, to the immediate future of solar, it's really, really promising in ways that maybe people don't recognize. Could you tell us a little bit about whether that's true? Yeah. So first in the technology piece, and I want to get to the political piece a second

because you raise a really interesting point. So the technology piece leaps and bounds forward. We are, for instance, we built solar in Alaska, right, recently. If you would ask me when we started this company 10 years ago, if that was possible, no way. But now, for instance, the panels can not just take the sun from the top, but they take it as reflected from the bottom, really driving up efficiency. Energy storage has come such a long way and is being implemented across the grid and will really be a key piece of stabilizing the grid. Just in the last few years, that technology is accelerated to a point that it's being, you know, there's almost a lack of batteries right now because so many people need it to help stabilize the grid. But back to the political piece

for a second. This should not be a Republican and Democratic issue. You know, I think one of the things that's lost in the big beautiful bill debate this summer. 22 House Republicans signed a letter saying don't touch the tax credits. We need them. If this was a standalone energy bill, that would not have passed, right? The genius of the administration, I'll give them credit for this, was flooding the zone with salt, right? The state taxes, Medicaid, putting these folks in an uncomfortable position to decide how

they're going to vote. We have to continue to build support on both sides, obviously, in the state. the Republican side more right now to continue to show that this technology is proven. Texas is the fastest growing solar state in the nation. Why is it the fastest growing solar state in the nation? Two years ago, Popo froze a death because the grid was unstable, right? Recently, the head of the national group that manages the grid's reliability said, it's because of solar and storage that Texas's grid is back to being stable, right?

But those are the leaders that we should be listening to in this debate, not some of the extremists that are pushing sort of anti-renewable policies instead of all the above policies and pragmatic energy policies that will move us forward. And so the bottom line seems to be that if you want to build nuclear or natural gas turbines, natural gas you're looking at seven years, nuclear, you'd be extremely lucky, given our track record to get something online within seven years. So let's even say it's that. whereas when in solar we're talking what how long to get from like starting to like get it up yeah 18 months to two years i mean it's for you for distributed solar big utility projects like the one that got canceled sometimes could take four plus depending on transmission but it's much quicker and it's really a local game at that point on how to get it interconnected and where you know the transition that's happening to the grid is we're going from these massive centralized

systems that provided power and it was distributed across the country to a much more distributed type of production so we can move quicker, get those things plugged in closer to the end use of the power, right? That transition has been underway for about 15 or 20 years. Unfortunately, these guys are slowing that transition by trying to go back to that centralized system, which has proven unstable, right? We want stability. We need to move from again. We're moving to this, right, from the telecon age of Ma Bell, right? And we have to continue that transition because the rest of the world is. And if we don't, we're going to be left behind. And so correct me if I'm wrong. The way that you end up getting your electric bill is a product of supply and demand where

the utility gauges what the supply is that they have now and what they forecast will be the supply in the future against the demand that they have now and the demand that they expect in the future and then they go to their regulators and they say here's what we need to charge to make this work so the supply the only way to bring new supply on and with any quickness seems to be to rely on these clean energy technologies because they can move faster on the demand side they we seem to be building you know data centers you know everywhere all the time and so the demand is going through the roof so it and and then it could tell me about the because you mentioned the tax credits my understanding was that the in the

IRA tax credits when something like 20 30 years because these as you mentioned these projects take so long to get on and you're if you're going to make a multi billion dollar investment this is something you care about for you know for decades or maybe 15 20 years whereas the the one big beautiful bill cut those credits and they cut off at what 20 30 or something like that so Yeah. It's not exactly how does that play in? Yeah. So first of all, the utility question, you're right as to supply and demand issue. And right now, demand is far out-stripping supply. That's why utilities are having to ask for rate heights. As you mentioned in a previous episode, the data centers are driving that.

And we need every type of supply we can to counteract that. If we wait seven years for a natural gas plant, everyone's going to be... Electricity bills are a top political issue today. You're seeing it in New Jersey. The governor's race, it's going to be the... It is going to be the egg prices of... of the midterms, right? And the Trump administration knows that that's why they're out blaming us when that's not the reality. But going back to your previous question on the tax credits, this is one of the things, I was very active on Capitol Hill this spring because there's a lack of understanding of finance in the policymaking realm in Washington, right? The tax credits are something that are, you know, so as we build a project today, we can go to a taxpayer, and they can

get a credit to invest that money into this type of project. They could also do it for low-income housing and other things, right? This is a tool that's been used for decades to incentivize certain type of growth, right? What happens is, though, when we're building projects, when we're looking out to, you know, it takes us two years to get something built, but we're financing it today, right? So we are looking at when those tax, when that tax credit cliff comes, because it highly affects the type of capital we're putting into a project. The reality is the reason those tax credits were put in is because it helps keep the price of electrons lower on the backside. So it's like how much the cost to build equals how much you're paying for the power, right?

We're now raising the price to build. It's going to raise the price to people are going to pay for electricity. The efficiency our market is getting, though, is helping to negate some of that, which is exciting. But the reality is it's still an issue for projects, really 26 and beyond. And we are trying to figure out today what does that look like and how are we going to sort of build in finance. And the reality is where we're going to build our finance. Because we are, the question is, where is it going to work? Well, John Powers, great last name, by the way. Nominal determinism. CEO, clean capital. Energy. Thanks for walking us through this. Really appreciate it.

Yeah, thank you guys for having me. I appreciate it. Hey there, I'm Kyle McLaughlin. You might know me as that guy from Twin Peaks, Sex and the City, or just the Internet's dad. I have a new podcast called What Are We Even Doing, where I embark on a noble quest to understand the brilliant chaos of youth culture. Daddy's looking good. Each week, I invite someone fascinating to join me, actors, musicians, creatives, highly evolved digital life forms. and we talk about what they love. Sometimes I'll drizzle a little honey in there too

from feeling sexy in the morning. What keeps them going? And you're maybe my biggest competition on social media. Like when a kid says bra to me. And how they're navigating this high-speed roller coaster we call reality. In Australia, you're looking out for snakes, spiders, and f***is. Right. Hey, he's no train with too, go chill.

This is like the comment section of my Instagram. Join me and my delightful guests every Thursday. And let's get weird together. in a good way. Listen to what are we even doing on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over, but one will end up dead. The other tried for murder. Not once. People went wild. Not twice. stunned. But three times.

John and Anne Bender are rich and attractive, and they're devoted to each other. They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular, circular home, high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble, and our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Tick podcast from Bloomberg News dives deep into one big global business story every weekday.

A shutdown means we don't get the data, but it also means for President Trump that there's no chance of bad news on the labor market. What does a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich reveal about the economy? Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples. and so they sort of become outsize indicators of inflation. What's behind Elon Musk's trillion dollar payout? There's a sort of concerted effort to message that Musk is coming back. He's putting politics aside. He's left the White House.

And what can the PCE tell you that the CPI can't? CPI tries to measure out-of-pocket costs that consumers are paying for things, whereas the PCE index that the Fed targets is a little bit broader of a measure Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, as I mentioned earlier in the show, Ryan rambled in here off his bike this morning and said he apparently knows the future president of Ireland. And rather than just treat him as a crazy individual, I think we're going to indulge him. He has a claim. Once in a while, you've got to just indulge those claims because they might be true.

Catherine Connolly is running for president of Ireland. The polls have her enormously ahead, and the election is on Friday. She is expected to be the next president of Ireland. When I was in Dublin over the summer, I met up with Abu Bakr Abed, my old, not my old, my colleague at Dropsite. He was reported for us from Gaza. He's now in Ireland. He's very young, actually. young guy, and we teamed up with the ditch and Pauley Doyle and did an event with the woman

who had just launched her presidential campaign at the time, Catherine Connolly, and it was held in the basement of this pub, and it was a really riveting conversation, and to see her in conversation with Abu Bakr was quite interesting. You can see the entire, we'll link to the entire thing down on the show notes. We'll play, you know, about 15 minutes of it after this. But after that, she had a series of kind of controversies in the presidential race where, for instance, she said, she was asked to condemn Hamas and she said, look, Hamas is part of the fabric of Palestinian society. Who are we as people who want our own liberation, our own anti-colonial struggle, to tell other people how to run their liberation struggle? And

And, you know, Irish elites were pretty, like, aghast at that comment. Irish voters were like, yeah, that tracks. And so she's on track to be the next president of Ireland. So let's roll a little bit of this clip. And so this starts with Catherine Connolly getting asked by Pauly Doyle, why there's this gap between what the Irish kind of public wants its government to do when it comes to relations with Israel and Palestine and what the Irish government actually does. And you guys are in the basement of a pub over the summer. So this would have been July or

August? Yeah. Yes. And as you can see it, now she starts off by joking about how insanely hot it was. It was like over 100 degrees. The room was, you know, it's absolutely packed, standing room only. And they don't have air conditioning over in Dublin. So you can see we are all sweating bullets in there. But it was very much worth it. And it was cool. We have a ton of dropside and breaking points viewers and readers in Dublin, which is also kind of cool to see. So this is for y'all. This is the first time I've been in a sauna with all my clothes on. A communal sauna at that. I don't mean to be flippant. I don't know where to go with this, really, because it's so overwhelming to listen to yourself here.

I don't know what words to follow. I don't know how we've come to the stage where we're hearing that description and tried to explain it. Something has gone horribly wrong with humanity, with the narrative. And you're asking me directly about the government. I actually think the government believe their own rhetoric to a certain extent. I think the government believe their rhetoric to a certain extent. extent. I think they actually believe they're doing something and they're the best boys in the class or the best girls in the class. And they've told us that repeatedly. For fear, we didn't understand it the first time. And so we've reduced the world to them and us. We're really back to that, them and us. We're back to you're with us or again us. And it's frightening actually to watch it on a daily basis. And if we look at it, Palestine, well before the 6th of October in 2023, as it's been set out,

slaughter was going on one way or another. And when Hamas went over the border, we had to continuously, every time we spoke, condemn that, like the refrain in the rosary. We had to say, absolutely, and give that refrain to legitimise what we were going to say. Some people were more courageous than I and said they wouldn't condemn it. I actually had no difficulty condemn it because I was horrified at the violence as I am with all violence. However, as we all know here, history did not begin on that day. But we were never allowed to give a context that was not permitted in the doll

without over and over condemning the attack. And of course context is very important. And so we're not allowed to do that. struggle to do that. And I want to thank you because you have no idea the importance of your protest and all the protests that have taken place over the country. It's really, really important. You mightn't think it, but it is having an influence on politicians. However, I don't know how long we can keep on with a genocide going on in front of our eyes. The word ironic is not the right word, but just last week we had a minute's silence

versus Rebenichin, rightly so. But we met no connection with the ongoing genocide in Palestine. And so there's a disconnect all of the time and you ask me how do we move from the government's rhetoric. There's a complete disconnect on so many levels,

so many levels between the government who think they're doing fantastic and the actual feeling on the ground. So in my time, in the doll, Amnesty published their report, and they said there was an apartheid regime in being operated by Israel. And our government told us they were uncomfortable with the word

apartheid. They actually said, we don't really want to talk about that, uncomfortable with that word. So we let that go. And then six human rights organizations were described and designated as terrorist organizations. We let that go. We waited for the evidence, the government said, but there was no evidence. ever produced. And then we watch the slaughter of men, women and children of journalists. I don't need to say all of this. But, you know, it's important to say it because we're actually watching

the slaughter. We're watching the UN being dismantled. We're watching language becoming meaningless. I never understood Kafka when I was doing German. I wasn't able to, I fully understand Kafka now, I can tell you, after my years and

the dolls since 2016. Things just happen. things just happen you know things are just happening in Palestine has nothing to do with Israel really

and that so I struggle I struggle I've read everything I possibly can I came from a back around of

Leon Eurus exodus Mila 18 I think I wanted to go to the kibbutz let me say there isn't an anti-Semitic bone in my body

I wouldn't tolerate it but that's the background I came from and I've made a journey in trying to understand Palestine and read everything I can. The latest, I had the privilege of launching a book in Galway by Fenton Drury.

I recommend it. So where am I going with this? We have no choice but to speak out. We're at a point in history where we really have to use our voices to make language mean something, to make our actions mean something. And when we try that, we're demonized, we're isolated, all the tricks of the book. to do that with the help of a media that's colluding. So I thank you very much because it's not easy to provide an alternative media.

But it's essential because we're not going to get it from the leadership and the doll and we're not going to get it. And I'll finish just maybe misinformation and disinformation. And I tend to laugh nearly hysterically when I hear that about the government bringing in legislation or something to counter disinformation. In my experience, most disinformation comes from government from institutions, from institutions who protect themselves in a self-serving manner

and a narrative all the time. And that consensus mentality to me is the greatest threat to democracy. And so if we go back and I'll finish on this, the banking inquiry. Nyberg did his banking inquiry and published his report. And what jumped off the page was the consensus mentality that allowed the banking

crisis. And fast forward to the 2025 and the same mentality is evident in relation to the children's hospital, the various debacles in Dublin. And I sit on the Public Accounts Committee. I've read all the reports and the biggest thing was the absence of questioning. That's what led to all of these very, very serious issues, neglect of children, the absence of questioning and a consensus mentality. So on one level, I don't wish to add to your despair in this sauna in here. We've learned nothing. On the other hand, I learn all the time because it's the only thing we have left is to keep learning, keep acting and using our voice because we have to give hope. We have to stand with the people of Palestine because if we let it happen, there's serious consequences for us as a nation

and as for humanity. Where are we going if we let this happen? Germak. I think in my opinion, since I've arrived here, and just to let people know that the most well-known European country or Western country that Gazans know is Ireland, by the way. There is so much love to you, so much really hoping you from Gazans, and they're always talking about you. And this hasn't this started since this genocide started in October, but it's always. always been it durable for many, many, many years, and we're very well aware of that. But I think it's arrived here. One thing the Irish government is quite worried about is that it is very pressured by you by the protests, but what we're seeing every single day from protests, calls to end the apartheid

regime to pass the occupied territories bill and to cut the Israeli bonds and everything. I am aware of that. But I think, in my opinion, the only obstacle that the government has is America, because it doesn't want to make America angry with it. And Israel controls America, not the other way around. So the Irish government is because there are a lot of investments here from Americans in this country, and we're all aware of that and have seen that, and I've read about it. But also this government doesn't, like, what it's all doing is just blaze in the United States and the U.S. administration and that if we make the U.S. angry, we can't attack Israel or we can't do whatever we want.

So, but we have to be really aware of what it means. I don't think any of you is happy that your aerospace is allowed to be used to transport fire jets from America. to Israel to kill bomb children. I don't think any one of you is happy with that. I don't think that those politicians were still voting for a genocide of these Israeli bones or, I'll say, in mere platitudes, and particularly the Irish newspapers here, particularly the Irish Times and the RTE,

who are still producing stories justifying the ongoing slaughter that we're seen every single day. No one should be allowed to accept this. So what Palestinians need from the government is because in the end, there is hope and people who are still care. There is hope and people who still, you know, who still have a heart, a pure heart about the plight of an entire population. And think about it, which part of this word is being bombed, which part of this word is suffering, which part of this word is being starved, which part of this word is being exterminated every single day, It's only Gaza.

So why are we not having, just the mere rights of any human beings around the world? Why this Irish government, which knows the meaning of colonization, which knows the meaning of starvation, which knows the meaning of imperialism, it knows everything about this, because it has been colonized by British, by Britain. So it knows everything. So why this government is still not acting? because in the end Gaza is the prologue and then everything will happen and you know that Britain is funded the Britain is the most complicit

probably country in this genocide after the US administration or after the United States so what Palestinians need from the government from this government is just to listen to its people as they told you like past occupied territories but oh God there's really important like it's not going to be the end of the word and just listen to your people

it's enough slaughter. So this complicity, just to allow in the Scheneggen Airport, to allow farting jets without even interrogating them, without even stopping them, without even asking them anything. But rather you will see people saluting them here, they're in the airport. And this is just absolutely not something that you really want. So what we all want from this government is just to listen to its people.

Like, do not, like if you don't want to help, the least you can do. don't contribute to killing us. That's all we want is Palestinians. Maybe Catherine you can speak to that question about the role of the U.S. And then if you did become president, my understanding, it's a pretty ceremonial position. But in that ceremony, there could be interactions with the vice president of the United States, the president of the United States if there are media.

Would you take meetings like that, or how would you use the office to try to get the yoke of the U.S. off of Irish government so that it could have a more democratic connection to its public? Hello? Am I speaking from the diaphragm? It's quite a complex question. I'll do my best. where do I go with this I am I am who I am I can't be I can't pretend

my only strength is my honesty and what I feel and I do my best to educate myself and reflect and speak so it seems to me I have no choice but to use my voice to speak out I can't be presumptuous enough

to jump ahead being president I'm not trying to avoid your question it certainly let me take it before then I think as you've said we're absolutely intricately bound up with America they determine our policy

we're allowing the bullies to determine our policy so we have a bully in America who changes his mind but the problem didn't start with the bully in America who changes his mind every five minutes every day. It started before that

when the Democrats failed to see what was happening and when they failed to see people turning away from the Democrats and they're failed to analyze it. If we come back here, the government is out of touch. They simply don't realize the strength

of outrage on the ground, not just in relation to the genocide in Palestine, but in relation to war, the normalisation of war, the normalisation of genocide, the normalisation of homelessness, of a housing crisis, all of which shouldn't be normal. And people are outraged on the ground and are crying out for solutions. And we have the solutions. But the narrative from the advisers and from the neoliberal ideology is very, very strong with the help of the press. So if we go back to Ireland, Ireland has done very well by its government in terms of the recognition of Palestine.

However, I'm on record for saying they're recognizing Palestine when it's almost a stride. So while they're clapping themselves on the back, in one sense it's easy to understand them because they are top of the class compared with other countries, including Arab countries. They are top of the class. So they see themselves as doing very well. What we see, what we see is democracy in peril because we either agree with the narrative that we need to be very careful with American. We heard the ambassador, I think the American ambassador to Israel

telling us we were intoxicated on our own narrative. But we need to stand up because we have everything to lose if we don't. Whether I do that now as a candidate for the presidency and in the best way I can if I was president, certainly. And under the constitution, the role of the president is set out and it's narrow enough. The symbolism of is very important because as we know in this country from Northern Ireland as well, symbols are powerful and they can be used. So the symbolic role can be used. And I must comply with my duties if I was there under the constitution and by law. However, one of the articles gives the president specific role in relation to the welfare of the people of Ireland.

And that's quite a broad, a broad part in the constitution. The person becoming president takes a public vow, absolutely a solemn promise to serve the people of Ireland and the welfare of Ireland. And so I don't think the welfare of Ireland is served by us joining warmongers, by adding to the military. industry complex. I think we have everything to lose and nothing to gain by increasing of course we need to look after our defence forces. So let me get that on the record.

But joining in the boys club to back up the profit-driven arms industry is not in our interest. And we have everything to lose by doing that. We have to use our voice for peace. Will I do that if I was elected and had the privilege of being president? You couldn't stop me.

You couldn't stop me using my voice for peace. You couldn't stop me as a mother of two children who are grown up and are two men now, so they're not around and they're not embarrassed by that. But once a mother, always a mother, I'm horrified that we would be using war as a way to achieve peace. It's back to front. So we should be working. And that's what I would do as a president.

working to make the Republic mean something, working towards the United Ireland with consent and recognising diversity, and using my voice, but more importantly, acting as a role model, that's a bit pretentious, but enabling and empowering people on the ground to use their voices, whether that's for peace or to do what they want to do. It is vital, and as I said earlier on, we're at a turning point. So we need people to take courage in their hands and use their voices. Consensus is not healthy.

Descent is very good. And diversity and the cherishing of diversity, it's absolutely vital for a functioning, healthy democracy. Okay, that's it for us. And we'll see you on Friday, right? We'll see you on Friday. I did want to mention I was referencing a report that was done by a consistent. conservative group on connections between like open society, tides funding, that sort of stuff

going into groups that potentially are knowingly funding literal ruckus in this case. So I was trying to remember who study it was, this capital research group or capital research center, which is a conservative group. And they have a report that's pretty interesting. Ryan, I was talking just a little bit about it while we were between segments that they show open society has sent money into a group called the Ruckus Society, also something called the Center for Third World Organizing. You can check that out on your own, make your own decision. And those groups do direct action. They do. Yeah. I wouldn't call it violent at all, but they do

direct action. So again, yeah, to just reiterate what we said in that segment, I'm not trying to make the case that there's a vast right wing, there's a vast left-wing conspiracy, I should say, to send Soros money to like literal black-bock violence taking over America's cities. But you can go ahead and check out that study. We'll link it. We are not funded by liberal philanthropy, so go to breakingpoints.com, upgrade your to a premium subscription and make sure that we don't have to go with our tin cup to Soros and the Tides Foundation. That's right. Yeah, we are only 90% funded by Soros.

That's right. We're funded by you. We're funded by you. We're so grateful for that. So breaking points.com, you can get a premium subscription, which gets you access to the second half of the Friday show where we really have all the fun and do AMAs. And maybe Lyle will show up again. sometime soon. We can hope. All right. We'll see you there.

See ya. Hey, I'm Kyle McLaughlin. You might know me as that guy from Twin Peaks, Sex and the City, or just the Internet stand. I have a new podcast called What Are We Even Doing, where I embark on a noble quest to understand the brilliant chaos of youth culture. Each week, I invite someone fascinating to join me to talk about navigating this high-speed rollercoaster we call reality. Join me and my delightful guests every Thursday, and let's get weird together in a good way. Listen to what are we even doing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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I'm not that generous. It's a damn near inspiring true story for anyone out there who's ever shot for the moon, then just totally muffed up the landing. They stole $17 million and had not bought a ticket to help him escape. So we're saying, like, oh, God, what do we do? What do we do? That was dumb. People do not follow my example. Listen to Crimless, Hillbilly Heist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The Big Tick podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the best.

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