Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 10/3/25: Flotilla SEIZED, Pete Oven Baby LIES, ICE Criminal Mayhem

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

Krystal, Ryan, Emily, and Griffin break down the Gaza flotilla seized by Israel, Pete Buttigieg spreading debunked lies about Oct 7th, and ICE creating mayhem in Chicago. To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breaking points.com. Morning, everybody. Happy Friday. How's everybody doing? Doing great. Excellent. Got a bunch of stuff to get to you. Ryan's going to give us a flotilla update. We've got some Mayor Pete weighing in on Israel and Gaza spreading misinformation. We've got the most horrific ice raid and trampling of everybody's rights that I can imagine. We got shutdown updates.

We got Riyadh updates. We got all kinds of stuff to get to this morning, right, Griffin? And most importantly, Taylor Swift's new album, you know, potentially the worst thing we'll have to talk about all day. And the ditty sentence. There's a new, new album? Like a new new album? I didn't even see this. Apparently came out.

Just in time for my birthday. So we're going to break all that down. We're going to get copyright struck. It'll be great. Emily, are you excited? How's your birthday, Griffin? Happy birthday. Let's do it.

That's right. Everyone in the comments, you have to be nice this time, okay? All right. Always love you, Griffin. You're like a fan favorite. I don't read them, but they do get sent to me. I read the emails. I don't read the comments.

Okay. All right. Well, let's get right into it. Let's start with some flotilla updates. Now, the majority of the flotillas have been intercepted on their way into Gaza and this video was released by Ben Gavir

taunting some of the flotilla activists. Let's take a listen. He's calling them terrorists, in case you didn't get that. They're murderers. They're not. They're not they're in fact that. They're not in a minute, not to mashat,

not to allow, but I'm back to Assad, the terroristic. Heller terroristic. All right. So that's most of it.

It goes on from there. And there's other videos of the IDF boarding the ships. And it seems like their new angle is that there was actually, there's no aid on these ships

actually and that it was all a PR stunt. Ryan, where are we at with all of this? And especially with your drop site correspondent, Alex. Well, he's with everybody else. And as we understand, basically everybody has been moved to a space inside the Kittseat prison, which is down in southern Gaza, notorious as a torture camp.

But our understanding is that they're all being held together in a big space like you saw there, actually, in the background of that video. We haven't gotten any reports of any significant violence. or any mistreatment other than being illegally taken into custody. They were not in Israeli waters when the Israeli warships boarded and captured them. The International Court of Justice has an order in place instructing Israel that they are forbidden from blocking humanitarian aid into Gaza. So not only did they not have the authority to board the ship, they were actively flouting the ICJ when they boarded the ship. Israel claims that it was enforcing a legal naval blockade,

but that assertion is rejected by the International Court of Justice. I also want to sit for a second with Ben-Govir having the audacity to call them terrorists, when, first of all, what are they doing? They're trying to bring in, like, baby formula to people who are being starved to death. And second of all, he is a literal convicted terrorist. So, you know, talk about projection here, convicted in Israel of support for terrorism. And I was wondering if either of you could address, like, I'm seeing a bunch of Israeli propaganda videos after having boarded the ship go viral. I don't know if you guys have seen those being like, there was no aid on the ships.

These aren't serious people. If you guys have, that's what the Israeli propaganda has been over the last 24 hours. So the, so Alex had told us that every ship, had, you know, significant quantities of particularly baby formula. Mm-hmm. Because that's, you know, and other, like, you know, peanut butter style nutritional supplements that are that are helpful to people facing severe malnutrition. And didn't I see that Israel had deemed peanut butter like a luxury and wasn't allowing

that in whatsoever, which, of course, is one of the, like, sort of like, two staples of fighting malnutrition. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. if Israel did not post videos of that. I mean, you can certainly find

places on the boat that don't have aid in them. Yeah. It's like soldiers going through the boats and saying there's nothing in here. It was all for show. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, this one is the one I'm talking about. Bring into Gaza, which explains one thing to me, I'm sure it explains to you,

that when we and multiple other countries offered them to take this aid and bring it to the Gazans, we could facilitate it, say, arrival, they flat out rejected it. Now, Ryan, how how much facilitated is going on? Yeah, exactly. And on that on that point, they did say like, okay, we

will take the aid to Ashkanah, we'll take the aid here and then we'll deliver it, which is just kind of an insult to anybody's intelligence is like, if Israel was facilitating the entry of aid into Gaza, this

flotilla would not exist. We wouldn't be here. Like, like, if, Yeah, if we trusted you to bring in the aid, like it's not for a lack of aid in the ports or on the trucks. Like the ports and the trucks that surround Gaza are filled with aid. It's not that there is a lack of aid. Right. It's not a baby formula shortage.

There's no shortage. The shortages of a willingness by Israel to allow it to get into Gaza. They are very explicitly tying, feeding and treating the population to the ceasefire that is on the table now. That's correct. They explicitly include those provisions. So if this soldier has some indication that that's all fake and actually Israel will just let them in, then they should tell the negotiators that because there seems to be some confusion

among the negotiators who have made it a central part of the ceasefire offer that we will stop starving you to death if you accept these terms. But again, the drop site correspondent is on one of these boats, right, and says there's aid on the boats. Yeah, he's, yeah, there was, he was, I mean, these are not huge boats, so let's not kid ourselves. It, you know, it would be enough for, to help a couple families, but like, yeah, he said there was, there was definitely, you know, as it was packed with as much kind of baby formula as they could take because, you know, they, they thought that with 50 ships, there was a chance that some would get through. Mm-hmm. And so if some got through, they wanted them.

The whole point is to establish a humanitarian corridor. The point is not we have sufficient aid to feed the population. The point is we need a reliable humanitarian corridor so that aid can be brought in systematically to feed and provide for a population that is being starved and displaced and bombed, et cetera. So my question for you guys, just real quick, is like, why aren't more, I haven't seen any prominent Democrats talk about this. Like, I haven't seen AOC and Bernie talk about the flotilla. Like, what is the dangers politically that why so many people are gun shy about these, you know, activists around the world? A lot of them American, you know, being taken by the IDF and humiliated by Ben Gavir. Why is no one talking about this?

I mean, I presume the same reason why they're reluctant, you know, across the board. We do have a number of Democrats now who have said it's a genocide. You have the Progressive Caucus that has signed on to the Block the Bombs Act. So you have progress in that direction, but you still have this just incredible reluctance. And but, you know, it's especially noteworthy, Griffin, to your point, in the face of some European countries actually being pressured into acknowledging it, sending their, you know, naval ships to ensure the safety, that sort of pressure. And, you know, you also have some European politicians who are on board. were on board this flotilla, which kind of forced the hand, I think, of some of these European countries as well when I believe, you know, like in Italy, isn't there, aren't there Italian members of parliament who were on board and that sort of pressured Maloney to have to step up and do something, even though that was very much against what she, what her politics are and what she wanted to do. Right. Right. And the, you know, the dock workers shut down the Genoa port. The, they had 300,000 people, Italians in the street protesting this.

In the U.S., there was, you know, this morning there was actually a protest at the Elizabethtown in New Jersey weapons plant, which hopefully I'll have video before we're done this show this morning. But that's, that was, you know, that's dozens that most people should be applauded, but it's not 300,000 people. So, like, people are not out in the streets here. People are not shutting the ports down. And so that changes the political calculation. So Democrats can kind of ignore it and get away with it. Yeah. I was just going to share this, and I wanted to get Ryan's update on this as well.

I saw Jeremy tweeting about this poll of Palestinians in Gaza that found only 8% fully support Trump's plan, 18% rejected, 25% strongly opposed, 41% want amendments. He says, New York Times interviewed four Palestinians. Gaza ran this headline, many Palestinians say Hamas must accept ceasefire plan. You know, at the same time, of course, like we know the horror in the sense like this. just has to end at any cost. And I know that was what you were hearing, Ryan from Palestinians as well. So what's your sense of where any of that is?

Right. That's the balance. Like, pretty much everyone I spoke to had basically the same take, which is this is a rotten, corrupt bargain. But if it's take or leave it, like, take it and just and live another day. That it has to end, that all this just has to. stop. And so, yeah, the New York Times framing was a bit like as if people were like excited and grateful for the offer. But I think it's, I think a better way to understand it is just anything

that ends the suffering under any circumstances, on any conditions, any terms, end this. Like, just stop. This is that. This is torture. Like, we're all dying. Yeah. So. But is that, do they like the idea of Tony Blair setting up some colonial administration funded by, you know, and backed by like Oracle software? No. I don't think you're going to find anybody who's like, yeah, I'm really looking forward to that. But compared to dying in a famine, sure. I mean, it seems to me like the deal is crafted to basically snuff out the Palestinian Liberation Movement, like to end the project completely. Is that their sense? Is that your sense?

You know, is that in Jeremy's conversations with Amos and PIAJ officials, is that their sense? Yeah, that's the idea. Yeah, that because if you have this enclave in this kind of dystopian techno lockdown and people are in camps where, you know, they might even not, like they might even, you know, let's say they take all their phones and give them new, you know, Oracle devices or whatever that have. have, you know, only approved apps on them. They already have control of their phones, forcing them to watch Nettanyahu speeches and whatever. And, you know, very strictly control movement and more aggressively control in the future,

like what gets in and what gets out, and then build, try to build a bunch of high rises or something. How they're going to do that is, it's difficult to see because just removing the unexploded ordinance itself is like a 10-year project. because of the vast amount of munitions that Israel dropped that haven't exploded. Jesus. You know, Hiroshima levels of unexploded ordinance everywhere.

And so imagine trying to then dig that out. And those unexploded bombs are pretty stable until you poke them. Yeah. That's going to be a boon for some contractor. Right. Right. And it takes forever. Yeah.

In early 1988, federal agents race to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia. We had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name it. But what they find is not what they expected. Basically, your stay-at-home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin. They go, is this show? your daughter, I said yes. They go, oh, you may not see her for like 25 years. Caught between a federal investigation and the violent gang who recruited them, the women must decide who they're willing to protect and who they dare to betray.

Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand and I saw the flash of light. Listen to the Chinatown Stang on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your Podcasts. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel?

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of the NFL. Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. Hey guys, it's Stephanie Beatriz and Melissa Fumero, and this is more better. We are jumping right in and ready to hear from you. Your thoughts, your questions, your feelings about socks with sandals. And we're ready to share some possibly questionable advice and hot takes. God, that sucks so hard, though. I'm so sorry. Can you out petty them? Can you match their pettiness for funzies?

Yeah. We had so much fun last season, laughing, crying, talking to some new and old friends. Remember when we were in that scene where you guys were just supposed to hug and I was standing. Oh, yeah. And I was like, can I also hug them? I'm like, this f*** has no friends. And this time around, we are, say it, Melissa. Should I?

Say it. Getting a little more better. Oh, finally. It's all the dressing room talk you've loved in season one. All the things. Because aren't we all trying to get a little more better? Listen to more better on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And while we're wondering where the Democrats are in response to this, we've got a clip that Crystal shared with me this morning from Andrew Callahan of Channel 5, who got to interview Pete on Israel, Palestine.

Let's take a listen on where the future of Dem leadership is. Yeah, the word socialism scaring people, then it sounds like a huge thing is Israel-Palestine. Yeah. Where do you stand on that stuff? Well, I'm going to throw my coffee down. There's so many things that have to be said. And what I've learned is, if you don't say all of them,

people think you're abandoning them. So here are some things in no particular order. He thinks that's so profound. There are unspeakable horrors taking place in Gaza. I know that those unspeakable horrors are. something that was unleashed by a war that started with unspeakable horrors being perpetrated by Hamas on October 7th. Well, I mean, that wasn't the beginning of the conflict. Of course. I mean, this goes back to 47 and it goes back before 47. But this is exactly my point.

The moment you say anything, but the moment I talk about disgust at babies being put in ovens and people being flayed by Hamas on October 7th, somebody says, well, you're not talking about the history of the Nakbah and what happened with the displacing of Palestinians. And the moment I express disgust at watching people in Gaza being starved. Somebody says, we must be excusing what happened with Hamas. No. Yeah. Now, there is nothing intrinsically anti-Semitic about speaking up for the rights of Palestinians.

At the same time, a lot of people I know who lie awake at night, worried about their kids, going to college, or walking the streets, you know, hear expressions of support for Palestinian civilian life. And think about the fact that even though nothing about that makes you solve. off on anti-Semitism. Yeah. The experience has been that those two things, expressions of support for Palestinian civilian life and expressions of

anti-Semitism have sometimes traveled together because there is, in fact, an explosion of anti-Semitism going on in this country. So what are we to make of that, folks? I mean, he got filleted for going on with the Pod Save guys and having metaphorically, yes, absolutely nothing to say. and clearly he learned nothing from that because however long that answer went on, he said literally nothing. And his biggest upset is that people are mad at him for trying to both sides,

for not being willing to take a clear stand. That's what he's like, you know, I don't get it. Why, when I say babies are baked in the oven, which is a literal lie, why do people correct me on that? Why do people want me to take a clear moral stand here? I don't get it. why can't I just bullshit this the way that I do literally everything else? And I just at this point, like, I actually am pretty shocked that he did the babies baked in the oven thing.

Because that has been dispelled since like one week after October 7. That was one of the first things we figured out. I mean, those of us who had intellectual capacity knew it was a lie immediately. But that was one of the first things that we found out. Oh, no, this was just utterly and completely made up. And yet here he is, almost two years into. to a genocide, still repeating atrocity hoaxes. Unbelievable.

Yeah, and talking about like flaying people and babies baked in ovens almost two years later, yeah, it just reflects a real extraordinary lack of, you know, not just courage, but any curiosity around the actual event itself. But he does seem to have genuine, frustration. that his whole thing here doesn't work. Like, this is his thing. Like, and Obama does this too, but Buttigieg is even much more of an offender where instead of... Yeah, Buttigieg is like Timu Obama on this.

Exactly. Like, exactly. But instead of answering a question, you, you state a bunch of facts. And often you state facts that are somewhat in tension with each other. And it gives an audience a sense that. that you're being thoughtful. And you hope that in all of that smoke, they don't notice that you actually never answered the question.

You just kind of reformulated the question in a series of assertions. And he's very upset that that trick doesn't work here. And here's the thing. That frustration is real. And here's the thing that he doesn't get is like liberals used to eat that shit up, right? Yeah. That Obama style like, oh, let me demonstrate. all the intellect that I have and all these facts that I can lay at your feet.

Yeah. Oh, he speaks in paragraphs. He's so intelligent. No. Liberals include, I'm not just talking about leftists. Liberal Democrats, right, that I've had it, gals, they are not, they are not they want you to give an answer.

They want you to be a leader. They want you to have moral clarity. And because if you can't say two years into a genocide, this is a genocide, it's outrageous. It needs to stop. I'm disgusted with my. myself, that I was complicit in it. If you can't say that, how are you going to stand up to Donald Trump? Like, that should be, it should be easy to oppose a genocide. And if you can't do that, how am I going to trust you to fight on any number of other things? So, like, if this man thinks

that he has a prayer of being the nominee in 2028, first of all, zero percent of black people continue to support him. That's number one. Number two, he is literally zero percent. Literally zero. Number two, wildly, wildly out of touch with where the Democratic base actually is at this point. They are disgusted with leadership. They are wearing for a fight. They are horrified by what we've been involved in in Gaza. And they are looking for people who have the slightest shred of moral integrity to actually be willing to take a stand there. Rather than low-key continuing to smear, people who stand up for Palestinian rights as being.

anti-Semites. That answer was not the answer of a politician who is in touch with his own party's base. It was the answer of somebody who's vaguely aware of where the polling is and knows that he has to like try to find a way to sound profound. Like that was the most ridiculous part of the interview is how he's acting. Like he's come up with some novel way to communicate about this intractable problem. And it sounds like somebody who's vaguely aware of the polling, but also has those donors tripping in his ear. And for Republicans and Democrats, we had a great glimpse of what this actually looks like

when the New York Times confirmed Gray Zone reporting about Turning Point donor Robert Shulman, who was apparently like a father to Charlie Kirk, like a mentor to Charlie Kirk, and revoked literally millions of dollars and cut himself off from Turning Point USA, not because Charlie Kirk said anything, but because Charlie hosted Tucker Carlson

and Dave Smith at a Turning Point conference recently. That is the magnitude of the pressures. But if Buttigieg can't stand up to them, then he should stay the hell off the podcast circuit because it's not going to get any better for him until he is honest. Yeah. You know, the crazy thing to me is back in the Tea Party era, you had this major upset, like calamitous, shocking upset of Dave Bratt over Eric Cantor. And most Republicans looked around at that and said, holy shit. This is a different landscape. I better adjust.

I better be looking at my right. I better be paying attention to these like nobody weirdos who are primaring me. Like, I need to get it together. Democrats had that moment. That moment was Zoran Mamdani, beating Andrew Cuomo by 12 points, right? A landslide totally reshaping the electorate. Polls were wildly off coming out of nowhere, destroying this like legacy political figure. And instead of really taking that in, they have layered themselves with all kinds of cuts.

Well, it's New York City. Well, I don't know. That doesn't really count. Well, I'm not really paying attention to that race. Well, I think it's really because, you know, he's sort of like abundance-ish. And that's why people like it. Like, you know, I mean, he's young and handsome. Right.

He understands social media. That's what it really is. As his mom's a film director. So he's got these, like, great videos. Maybe if I just make some, like, quick cut vertical. vertical recorded videos. Maybe I too can capture this magic. Like they either dismiss it entirely or they come up with the dumbest possible reasons why they think he won so that they can avoid learning the very clear lessons that the message that was sent to them through that election. And so I think you are going to have some Democrats who are really caught unawares by primary challengers by major figures who are taken out. I don't know who or what that's going to be. But I think we're going to be in, they are going to be in for some major surprises this year because they have done everything they possibly can to avoid learning the lessons that are transparently

in front of them right now. This is one of my favorite polls. You just see favorability for the Democratic Party. This is Gallup in July among Democrats is really right now similar to the levels that it was among Republicans in the Tea Party years. So it's not even just like these obvious examples of Mom Donnie, Bernie almost beating Hillary and almost beating Biden, and AOC beating Joe Klee. I mean, Democrats have had this gift of waking up to where the base has handed them on a silver platter over and over and over again.

And Emily, what about MTG? Look at MTG out here. She's got like some of the most like small dollar contributors. Like is she, is she more in touch with her base than the rest of the party? And is she like on this issue alone? Like, is this catapulting her to some new echelon? I mean, it always depends with Republicans because there's a ton of. daylight between people who say, like, oh, wrap up the war, but are still like ardently supportive of Netanyahu and Israel. So it's always hard to know what it means when a Republican says at this point to a pollster that they support Israel or not. But she's definitely more in touch with the millennial Gen Z Republican voter. That's for sure at this point. So we'll see going for it. Her small dollar donations are something that should also be eye-opening to Republicans.

Yeah. I mean, we shouldn't overstate the amount of the Republican shift because still overwhelmingly, Republicans are pro-Israel, right? And see the world more through like they're our ally and, you know, they're more like us or whatever the worldview is. I can't even really wrap my head around it at this point. So most of the shift, boomer Republicans are still right where they've always been. Lockstep, Israel by and large, on board with, you know, what Trump is doing and the everything for Netanyahu strategy. They're totally there. It's really just among young Republicans that you begin to see a split. But that's, you know, I mean, I feel like Israel is kind of freaking out about that. I feel like that's a big part of the reason why they're taking over TikTok and installing Barry Weiss's editor-in-chief of CBS. Like, I can't even, you know, if you told me some of these things. Yes, if you told me some of these things that would be reality now, like Tony Blair is going to take over Gaza and Barry Weiss is going to be editor-in-chief of CBS. I would be like, I mean, you just, like, I literally could not have made it up.

I could not have made it up in my mind. All of those young viewers at CBS News, the young demographic. It was a great birthday gift to you, though, Griffin. That's right. Yeah. I'm excited. I'm happy for our colleagues, our sister podcast, and their success. You're mostly happy for your friend Olivia Rangel.

We all know that's what it does. I like content creators. So why don't we move on to ICE? We've got some horrible news stories over the weekend, and this one really struck Crystal that she wanted to share. This was happening in Chicago, I believe, where the use of Black Hawk helicopters was used. Let's take a listen to a little bit from the local news. She says they took everyone and then asked questions later. It just looks like we would nothing.

Patricia Fisher said she came out to the hallway of her apartment complex on the corner of 75th and South Shore Drive in her net gown around 10 Monday night, only to find ice agents yelling police. It was scary because I've never had a gun put in my face. They asked my name and my date of birth and asked me, did I have any worse? And I told them, no, I didn't. She says she was then handcuffed and released around 3 a.m. Fisher says she was told if anyone had any kind of worn out for them, even if it was unrelated to immigration, they would not be released. citizen at video shows the chaotic scene overnight. Neighbors tell us there were dozens of ICE agents.

Neighbors like Ebony Watson says they ducked for cover as they heard several flashbangs go off. They was terrified. The kids was crying. People were screaming. They looked very distrauded. I was out there crying when I seen the little girl come around the corner. Because they was bringing the kids out too. Had them dipped tied to each other.

That's all I kept asking. Where's the morality? Where's the human? Yeah. So it keeps going on. But there's more reports also of, like, yeah, them dragging children out into, out of their homes. Some of the children were naked, apparently, zip tide. And so, yeah, what are we to make of this, especially after Trump has meme war declaration of Chicago.

I think a week or two ago is when he posted that meme of napalming Chicago. So I guess he's following up on his promises here. Well, he also promised in that Quantico speech this week to use these cities. as training grounds, by the way. That was at 44 minutes in. Explicitly talking about unleashing the military with all of the top generals assembled there against the enemy within. And like these ladies that you just saw there on the street who are American citizens

who did nothing wrong, that is apparently what he means. I mean, I just, I know that there's a lot that's shocking in the world. I know there's a lot that shocking in the country. I really want people to sit with what happened here, okay? They used Black Hawk helicopters in the middle of the night to repel into an apartment building. They pulled everyone out, broke down the doors, destroyed their belongings. There were no warrants, okay?

Little kids who were sleeping, naked or in their underwear, pulled out crying, zip tied together and thrown into U-Haul vans. Little American kids, okay? It wouldn't be okay if it's immigrants, by the way, but I know this is. is like an important distinction for a lot of people. Other people, grownups, adults, seniors, dragged down, did nothing wrong, middle of the night. Again, unclothed, zip tied together, thrown and detained for hours, for hours. No ability to make a phone call, no lawyer, no warrant, nothing.

Like, these are criminal acts. These are criminal acts being committed by the DHS. They have decided that our rights do not. exist do not matter that through brute force they can literally do whatever they want to whoever they want that's what we're talking about here and this isn't the only instance new york times had a report on a number of american citizens who had been swept up by ice you know one man he was trying to get to his work site american citizen veteran army veteran by the way had his windshield smashed in by ice, they shot pepper spray in his face, and they pulled him out, arrested him, and held him

for three days. No call, no lawyer, nothing. They think they can do whatever they want. And that's what I want people to really understand. Okay. This is about immigration, but it's also not about immigration. This is about a regime that thinks they can literally act with impunity because they have the power and they have the guns. Some of these Democratic mayors and governors, like, law enforcement needs to protect these citizens. They are being abused. They're being assaulted.

They're having their rights violated. They're having their possessions destroyed. This apartment complex may not even open up again. They may be completely displaced. I just, I am, I am completely floored. I'm without words. Like, it's hard for me to be shocked by what this administration does at this point when we're talking about.

pulling naked kids out of their beds, zip tying them together and throwing them in the back of a U-Haul van in the middle of the night, how can anyone, I don't care if you love Trump or hate Trump or your anti-em, whatever, I don't know how anyone morally justifies this and feels okay with it and thinks that it doesn't directly implicate your own rights in your own life. Yeah, this, the also, I think this also implicates the rogue nature of ice. like ice ice is a genuinely dangerous agency people started calling it out around 2017, 28 it was only created in the wake of 9-11

and it produced it produced this like rogue culture where anything went I don't know if you remember in the 2018 or 2019 several members of the squad went down to the border

and before that the intercept and also ProPublica like obtained, uh, the, the Facebook chats, the, like the Facebook page, this private Facebook page had like hundreds of not just ICE agents, but top officials in ICE. And it, it, it was insane, like, genocidal rhetoric, um, like rape threats, death threats, like, the most, the most disgusting type of stuff that you can, that you can, that you can, Fathom was being put out onto this massive Facebook group with senior officials at ICE on there and hundreds of agents and absolutely nothing was done about that. And now we have an

entire rogue government. So it's not fair to call ICE rogue anymore. Ice is now aligned with this administration and is being told all of those impulses. All of those impulses, that you've had all of these years, those are good. Feed them. Go for it. We've got your back. And, yeah, Crystal's point that it shouldn't be done to anybody, but it's, of course, it's not going to stop it. So-called illegal immigrants. So there's absolutely no excuse. I mean, they have helicopters in Elgin. If you know the area, Elgin is a suburb of Chicago, like a sleepy suburb of Chicago. And I'm sure there are a lot of Venezuelan migrants who have, in the case in Chicago. the Chicago raid that we were talking about earlier lived in these apartment buildings

they brought a helicopter military vehicles and Christie Nome into Algin and sometimes people when I say that this is a LARP act like I think that's not serious it's actually

like it's calling something a LARP like a fascist LARP I think that's extremely serious and I think that's what they're doing if you go to the DHS Twitter it obviously goes beyond a LARP when you're actually detaining people, but I'm using that to say that they are doing this performatively. They are detaining U.S. citizens for the performance value that they see

in this like theater of Black Hawk helicopters or helicopters at all in suburban Chicago with Christy Noem and the photo ops. Remember, this is again Homeland Security where Christy Noam is doing all of the photo ops. Like their position on the performance is that it's like just as much of a part of the game. And so that's where they're really leaning into it. And it's abhorrent. I mean, it's just, it's, it's so unsurious. And I say that coming from a different place than you guys,

which is there are really serious, I think they're like extremely serious operations that need to happen because there actually are people who came who are criminals and in fairly big numbers during the case of the Biden administration that are actually endangering U.S. citizens. There are people who are here who need to go through the legal processing system because they have, their U.S. citizens and wages are on the line. And I know I disagree with you guys on that point, but like I think, I believe in the process. And I believe that the Biden administration left the Trump administration in a position where the American people wanted to see the process.

But that's, from my perspective, this is like even more horrifying because of that, because it is so unsurious. And if you go to their social media, they are posting the most, like, just the dumbest stuff on the DHS Twitter feed. And I'm sure it's like that on Instagram too. And so I just feel like they're sacrificing something that's really serious for A, ALARP and B, endangering like people's rights. And it's not impossible that some of these guys end up actually like incarcerated down the line. They need to be. I mean, they genuinely, like these are criminal. acts. And you can go and you can watch in California, ice stormed a car wash. And again, they've been greenlit by the Supreme Court to just racially profile, by the way, stormed a

car wash. And a 79-year-old American business owner comes out to try to say, hey, I have paperwork for these workers, like what's going on? They throw 79-year-old American business owner, throw him to the ground, jump on him, break his ribs, give him a head trauma, head injury, ends up in the hospital. He is now suing them. You can watch this on video, right? And this is the part, like, you know, I just told you about the guy, American veteran in a car. Like, there are so many Americans who are caught, I don't even want to say caught up in this, who are being targeted by their own government. That is vastly more terrifying. then some Venezuelan migrants living in your apartment building.

Go ask those ladies. I mean, one of those ladies who, they're at the end of the clip that we showed, she was saying, I kept asking, where's your morality? What are you doing? These are kids. And they said, one of the ICE agents said, and I quote, fuck them kids. That was their view. Fuck them kids.

These are, whether they're immigrants or Americans, and this was mostly Americans in this apartment complex, that's their view. That is profoundly more dangerous. than any, you know, potential like Trenda Aragua member, when your government that has the full force and power of the state is acting with complete and total impunity, that is a vastly greater danger than anything that we have seen in terms of undocumented immigrants coming into this country. And this is the part that I feel like no one ever grappled with or talked about when, you know, they were at the RNC with the mass deportation now signs and everyone's cheering this and the violence. shift, blah, blah, blah, especially for there was a contingent of libertarians and, you know, I like Dave Smith, but he's he's emblematic of this type who embrace this sort of thing. And it's like, in order to separate undocumented immigrant from citizen, it requires a massive police state apparatus. That is what necessitated, like that is what is necessitated by this mass deportation strategy. And by the way, If you care about, you know, if you care about going after the criminals getting criminals out, et cetera, they're doing a piss poor job at that. Drug trafficking convictions are way down because they're also going to lose all public support.

They're going to completely lose all public support, too. They want to be raiding a random apartment building. They want to be raiding the home deed. But this is explicitly what Stephen Miller has said. So it's the polar opposite of going after the violent criminals. The majority of the people who are now in ICE custody for the first time have no criminal conviction whatsoever are not indicted. They're not like these are just people who cross the border illegally, which is a civil infraction and are being treated like they're, you know, serial killers. It's insane.

And so it should be surprising to no one the way that this, this stripping of rights from immigrants, any rights, the ones that they're entitled to, stripping of all rights from immigrants, was going to bleed over into America. citizens and we're seeing that expansion over and over and over again. And I'm just, I don't know, I'm horrified. I'm absolutely horrified by what we're seeing happening here in our country with so little pushback from the so-called opposition party too. And also the Chicago's Mexican-American population is like well over like 100 years old. Like this is, it is a, it is a part of the fabric of Chicago culture and society. You know, the Mexican Revolution and then, you know, the need for factory jobs, factory workers in World War I really, you know, drove this massive pull of Mexicans

who moved up to the Chicago area, which is roughly the same time that Stephen Miller's family got here. Like they, like Stephen Miller's family and a lot of these Chicano, you know, have, have equal amounts of claim when it comes to the duration of the time that they've spent here in the United States. So, like, pretending that you can, you know, take a heritage American. Yeah. Yeah.

And the, exactly. And the, um, is in, is in Fuentes a Chicago, uh, he's a Chicago. He's a Chicago area Latino. That's right. Yeah. Who? The Supreme Court, like, believing. So the Supreme Court legalized like this like skin color test that, you know,

from like, they, you know, put the, put the little paint stick up by somebody's face and the darker they are, the more right ice has then to like, you know, smash their face into the, into the sidewalk. But it actually belies the, the real history of Chicago. And I was talking to some people from Chicago last night. They were saying it's like a ghost town and in huge parts of the city. People just scared, like in their own country, scared to go out. Um, so. I shot and killed a guy in, or around Chicago. Um, and then they lied about about about it. You know, they claimed he was a criminal. They claimed that they were, you know, severely injured, whatever video came out.

And it was complete and total lie. Like, this guy had no, was not a criminal, no criminal record whatsoever. And they ended up killing him. Like, that's, that is the level of impunity that we're talking about here. And I don't know. I just feel like if they're, they keep, they're just allowed to get away with you. We all watched that woman outside the courtroom in New York who was upset because her husband was being arrested. to be deported. She's there with her two little kids. This thug takes her, grabs her by the hair,

throws her on the ground. Again, all recorded. We all can see it. And she ends up in the hospital with head injury. And the guy initially, ICE says, oh, this was unacceptable behavior. Week later, he's back on the job. Not even a week later. He's back on the job. What do you think these new recruits who are coming in? The big beautiful bill has makes ICE the largest law enforcement, agency in history, what do you, these new recruits who are coming in, who were looking at this, what do you think that their attitude is going to be like, like, if you're seeing those videos, if you're seeing the 79 year old business owner having his ribs broken, if you're seeing the man who was shot to death on the side of the road, if you're seeing this lady who gets

thrown to the, like, and you're like, yes, that's me. I want to be part of that. This is only going to get worse. Well, I just, I also just want to emphasize this makes everybody less. safe because once again, I think the Trump administration has this idea. There's a public mandate to do, quote, mass deportations, which everybody is going to define differently. Seriously, like, there is no consensus number for what a mass deportation would look like or what it should look like. And there have already been backlashes in the public. You see Rogan and others who have moved away from what the, quote, mass deportation administration looks like. But they're losing, I mean, this is going to jeopardize an enormous amount of public.

support for the project of actually ridding the country of violent criminals. And there are some violent criminals here. And so everybody is less safe because the Trump administration right now is choosing to prioritize this theater. And I don't mean that again. Like it goes beyond theater because it's actually happening, of course. But I'm saying they're a huge part of their animus for doing it the way that they're doing it is it's not just about disincentivizing people that continue coming to the country and getting people to self-deport. It's not just about that. It's the show of force that the people inside the administration are loving. And again, you can tell this from their social media. It feels like this culture war backlash to the Biden era.

You see this with the Pete Higseth speech this week. It's this idea of putting on a show of fighting back against, like, the culture of weakness and anti-Americanism and all of that. And if it leads to, as it is in this case, militarization of suburbs like Elgin, the public is going to rightfully start pushing back. And then you're going to lose any, like, scrap of public support for what people did say they wanted to see at some point. Now, again, what that looked like, nobody has. had some people might have been comfortable with a small number of, quote, mass deportations compared to what the Biden administration was doing. But that's all going to be gone for the Trump administration, the more that this continues.

And again, this is, like, rightfully so. These are U.S. citizens and you are incompetently, like, acting a fool because you want to play dress up and use the Black Hawk helicopters. And because the president is saying, we should use these cities as a training ground for the military. That is not American and it is not conservative. And because Stephen Miller is a sadistic freak and he runs the government. I mean, that's whose policy this is. Like, and there, I mean, this is the thing that is so, I don't know, I don't even know the words at this point, but it's so terrifying to grapple with because they can't be so stupid as to think this stuff is popular. It's not, right? Oh, no, I actually think they do.

I seriously think that they do. I think they're in their own bubble like the left was in. It seems to me like they genuinely don't care what the election results are. Like they will, you know, the level of overreach is so insane that it just seems like they have thrown electoral politics to the side. And I'm like, well, okay, well, what does that mean? You don't think that there's ever going to be any sort of electoral repercussions to the acts that you're taking here. They were so proud of like, oh, Trump was able to win over some significant amount of Latinos and even there were some number of black voters who came back to him. Like that is that is all gone, right?

The young people that voted for Trump, that is all gone. And yet they continue in this completely unhinged fascist takeover. And so that's what makes me ask like, okay, well, what is the plan then? because clearly they don't think there's ever going to be any potential of electoral consequences. They're going for the whole thing right now. They're going for the whole enchilada. That's what NSPM 7, by the way, that Ken Klippenstein has been reporting on is about we're going to make sure we don't even have a political opposition. Like, they don't even exist, which Democrats are doing a good job of basically making reality all on their own.

But they are taking a little bit of a stand this week. So we'll give them a little bit of credit for that. But, you know, Trump made that comment in that speech as well. he's like, I thought there'd be pushback. I thought we'd have a fight. There's no fight. They're going for the whole thing. And so acts like this, it's not just about immigration. This is a demonstration of force. This is a demonstration to the public citizen, non-citizen alike. We can do whatever we want to you. You better stay in line. You better pray. You better be on our good side because that is the only thing that will protect you. These rights that you imagine you have, they don't exist. Look at the Supreme Court. They give us everything we want at every turn. The only thing that they stood up against was like, I guess we're going to keep the Fed in place. That's it. That was their line. Other than that, on the shadow docket, Trump has gotten his way.

So, yeah, greenlit the racial profile, all of this, the recisions, all of it. Yes, your rights don't matter here anymore. And that's what these, that's what these overt acts, rogue lawless criminal acts, assaults, bring naked children out in the street and stuffing them in U-Haul vans, killing someone on the stride of the street and lying about it, throwing business owners. That's what they are meant to convey. We can do whatever we want to you, whenever you want. So you better shut up and sit down and get in line. In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia. We had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name it.

But what they find is, not what they expected. Basically, your stay-at-home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin. They go, is this your daughter? I said yes. They go, oh, you may not see her for like 25 years. Caught between

a federal investigation and the violent gang who recruited them, the women must decide who they're willing to protect and who they dare to betray. Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand, and I saw the flash a light. Listen to the Chinatown Stang on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere

you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin. And this is NFL cover zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts Pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that. What was that? Oh my. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL.

Visit Toyota.com slash NFL now to learn more. But the humility in knowing that life is this classroom that we should never graduate for is what is going to keep you growing. And that's all that matters. World Mental Health Day is around the corner, and on my podcast, Just Healed with Dr. Jay, I dive into what it really means to care for your mind, body, and spirit from breaking generational patterns to building emotional capacity. Healing is a journey and wholeness is the destination. I'm going to walk away feeling very healed and feeling like, yes, I'm going to continue my healing journey. and I'm going to get some keys from you. Listen to Jess Hilbert, Dr. Jay, from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

So we got PR problems with this, and we've got other PR problems happening in the Trump administration, which I think will move us nicely to a little bit of Epstein news that Emily shared with none of the Howard Lutnik. Kind of stepping into the ring here. So Howard Lutnik went on the Miranda Devine, New York Post podcast, which gets a lot of dishy stuff because Miranda, like, knows these guys pretty well and was able to, you know, pull some of these thoughts out of them. And this is, like, sneakily one of the most candid things that Trump administration official has said since the entire Bindergate Bondi fiasco of, especially earlier in the summer, I think Lutnik was just comfortable in a conversation with.

Miranda Devine and said this, Griffin's about to play the clip, about what he thinks on Jeffrey Epstein, having known him. The guy's gross. Right with my wife. The guy's gross. This was not, oh, the deep nuance of Howard Lutnik. This guy's gross. Right. So how come Bill Gates and all these other people could hang around him and not see what you saw? Or did they see it and ignore it? No, they participated. Right. That's what his MO was. You know, get a massage, get a massage. And what happened in that massage room, I assume was on video. This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever.

Blackmail people. That's how he had money. Interesting. So he assumes some of it's on video. Well, and Ryan, you can speak more to this. But Howard Lutnik was firmly ensconced in the world of New York finance, exactly in the type of position of somebody who would have been for years. Didn't he literally live next to Epstein?

Am I right about that? I don't remember that. Let me look it up. But he's the person who would be, like, in a position to know. Yes. And so, like, he's hearing this for years and years. And there you have him just breezily saying, like, yeah, he was pulling guys in to have massagers. And I'm sure they're all on video. This is the Commerce Secretary. This is the Commerce Secretary.

And his own boss, the President of the United States, wrote a, the very most, the most charitable way to put it. like what's even the what is even the word like cheeky birthday letter to a guy who the Commerce Secretary again is saying yeah everyone like he's saying it so breezily as though the implications yeah everyone knows that he was pulling guys in to get massages in his townhouse and he was gross they knew it and they did it anyway that implicates the president right they didn't do it anyway they did it because of that yeah by the way i did check he did live next door to upstein in uh upper east side that upper east side mansion ludnik was the next door neighbor Park Avenue is not what it was?

Yeah. Yeah, he was the founder of or at least the CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald, the, you know, absolutely massive financial service firm that was at the top of the World Trade Center. So, yeah, he's right in that in that social circle. Yeah, what he's saying is that it's not that

people saw what he was doing and hung out with Epstein anyway, despite that. they were hanging around him because of that. Like that was the draw for people. He was not like brawb, you know, he was not twisting their arms to get these massages. And then, like Lutnik says,

he believes that they were getting filmed. At that point, it doesn't matter if they were getting filmed or not. Like if you're one of these guys, like a Gates or somebody who's in that room, and then as Lutnik says, whatever happens happens, and you're not sure if it's if the cameras are on you now are under the thumb of Epstein because maybe he's got film maybe he doesn't probably does you don't want to find out the

hard way so then he's got you but as you know as as it's also the case you he barely needed blackmail over these people like he was he had he had money and power and connections. And people wanted to be part of that. Yeah. And so like the blackmail is like almost a little extra little a la carte item that he could bring. I feel like that really comes out in some of the correspondence that was revealed between J.P. Morgan executives who were like debating whether to keep him on. And, you know, there were several in particular who tended to be his advocate, but one specifically who had been to the island. And there's. this grotesque email exchange between that dude and Epstein talking about like, oh, I had a great time with whatever Disney for Snow White, I think it was. And he says, oh, well, who would you like next? And he says, I think, you know, Beauty and the Beast or something like that. I mean, seems clear what is being referenced there. And so, you know, you've got it working all that was. So Epstein is bringing in money to J.P. Morgan. He's bringing in deals. He's able to bring in. He facilitates a meeting with Nanyahu facilitates a meeting with Elon Musk.

bringing in all these big players. Bill Gates, I think, is one of the people that he brought in as well. He's trying to set up some something with them. So he's making them money, number one. Number two, this dude is like enjoying the time on the island. He's having a grand old time and doing whatever's happening there. And so he's benefiting monetarily. He's benefiting sexually. He's benefiting in terms of like his lifestyle. And then also he knows that if this guy ever wants to pull the pin on me, he can do it. So he's also under his thumb that way. And it seems pretty clear like that Lutnik's general assessment is correct that, you know, these guys were getting benefits. And they knew that there would be a cost to just like distancing themselves from Epstein, from certainly being a whistleblower with regard to Epstein. So they just decided to enjoy the perks instead of doing the correct and obvious moral things. And to Emily's point, it must be a good interviewer because, like, Lutnik, why are you bringing Epstein up right now? Like, we just had the Charlie Kirk Memorial. Like, people were forgetting about the Epstein thing, like one of a kind, too.

He's a list of. But like, you know, the Epstein, like, it's been a long September. But September started with the drawing, the Trump drawing of the premature woman in the Jeffrey Epstein book. And then the Charlie. Kirk assassination happened and largely the conversation was over about the Epstein book and stuff like that. But then what makes like, nope, let's refresh. Let's bring it back out.

I mean, that's the danger of sitting down with Miranda Devine, who is like just friendly with a lot of these guys and is also like very curious about deep state issues. So it's, it's, she's in one of those rare positions where she can pull some of that, extract some of that information very casually out of guys like Howard Lutnik. I mean, Lutnik is like Ryan said. It's not surprising that. It's not hard to pull anything out of him. Stumbled into this little disclosure, but that is a good reminder.

There were videotapes confiscated from Palm Beach, videotapes confiscated from the Manhattan townhouse. We do not know anything about what the government knows from the surveillance network, from the houses that was apparently uncovered. All of the guys like Lutnik seemed to believe that there were hidden cameras. We saw the pictures of New York Times released of cameras in the bedroom. There's very clear evidence. Epstein was just aggressively recording what happened in his homes, and using that as blackmail. And we know that the government has unreleased information that would help us understand that better because we know some of these records were seized from the houses. So that is a giant, I mean, continues to be one of the biggest unanswered questions that the government seems to have zero interest whatsoever in ever coming up with. a response to yeah um guys you want we should probably talk a little bit about the fact that there was supposed to be a jobs report this morning and there's no jobs report this morning and i think we've got some joanie ernst soybean uh updates as well but i mean this is this is a huge story

this is something that in a more normal time this would be a red alert you know breaking news everyone would be freaking out and losing their minds and i'm sure there are plenty on wall street who are still freaking out and, you know, losing their minds. But this is supposed to be jobs report Friday. Every Friday of the month, you get the government BLS jobs report. Everybody waits to see what those numbers are. They're highly, they're the most, I would say, anticipated numbers that come out of the government. And this week, we're just not getting them.

Now, that is partly because of government shutdown. It's partly because Trump fired the previous BLS commissioner because he didn't like the numbers he was getting. It's partly because the dude that they picked to be swapped in for BLS Commissioner was like a total incompetent crank that even some on the right were like, this guy can't possibly do the job. And they pulled his nomination. And so now we're just like flying blind on the economy. And this comes on the heels of a different privately compiled jobs report from ADP that was negative and that also had a downward adjustment for the prior month. So things not looking so great in terms of where we are economically at this point. Yes, let's watch that clip and more on the second half of the show where we'll get into that and more subjects like the Riyadh Comedy Festival and we'll be answering some of your AMA questions from the Breaking Points premium members.

If you want to sign up, watch the second half of the show at breakingpoints.com and we'll see you all on the other half. One more part of that, T, is Crystal will be live alone on the streets of Baltimore for Tommy Larry. That's right. Tommy, this is for you, girl. She will be coming to us live from Baltimore. Although I think I'm supposed to be at night. So I'm going to have to hang out there all day. That's fine.

I like Baltimore. It's a nice. And you have to listen to, you have to be blasting bad bunny on a boom box as well. Great American artists. You know, you know. Folks, if you don't know what we're talking about right now, there's an incredible Tommy Lauren. takes down Crystal Ball, Lerrin. Sorry, it's been so long.

So if you want to see Crystal Ball get absolutely humiliated, owned, wrecked, destroyed, and I see her liberal tears. You can check out that interview. Oh, and also. Drinking him now. Let's plug. Also, Corey Bush is running for Congress against Wesley Bell, so maybe we'll talk about that. Oh, nice.

I thought she was already official. She announced this morning. Oh, cool. Nice. It was expected, but she's now officially in. Let's go. So much to happen and talk about on the second half of the show. And we'll see you all there in just a moment.

I'm Bridget Armstrong, host of the new podcast, The Curse of America's Next Top Model. I've been investigating the real story behind that iconic show. I ended up having anorexia issues, bulimia issues, by talking to the models, the producers, and the people who profited from it all. We basically sold our souls and they got rich. If you were so rooting for her and saw her drowning, what did you help her? Listen to the curse of America's Next Top Model on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia.

Had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name. Five, six white people pushed me in the car. What about that hell? Basically, your stay-at-home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin. All you got to do is receive the package. Don't have to open it, just accept it. She was very upset, crying.

Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand, and I saw the flash of light. Listen to the Chinatown Sting on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges,

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