Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 10/8/25: Jon Stewart Begs Dems On Gov Shutdown, MTG Breaks With Party, Bondi Squirms On Trump Epstein, Cuomo Attacks Zohran

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

Ryan and Emily discuss Jon Stewart begs Dems on gov shutdown, MTG breaks with party on healthcare, Pam Bondi squirms on Epstein Trump questions, Cuomo lashes out at Zohran. Eugenia Muzio: https://x.com/eugemuzio  Negar Mortazavi: https://x.com/NegarMortazavi    To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years, until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls, came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season, ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Introducing IVF disrupted, the Kind Body story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care.

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Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows,

unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breaking points.com. Good morning and welcome to Breaking Points. Emily, how you doing? Doing great.

As a reminder, everyone, get a premium subscription. Yes. That's what makes the show work. That's right. There's going to be a lot of fascinating stuff on today's program, and some of it will make you furious at some other elements of the media, and hopefully we'll make you grateful for outlets like Breaking Points, like DropSight. And as that gratitude washes over you, remember that you can go to breakingpoints.com and become a premium subscriber to help this thing go along so that we don't have to moonlight as speechwriters for powerful political figures, because you don't want us to have to do that. That's a little teaser of what's to come. Ryan has some really great original reporting to share later in the show.

A couple of things that we don't have time to get to. Yes. If you missed the Katie Porter interview, it's going viral. Go find it. Incredible. She's like, let me see if I can torpedo my campaign in one interview. Yes. It's really incredible. Mission accomplished.

The background on her, the knock on her in the house was always that she was cruel to staff and also to some other members. Her defender said, no, no, no, that's sexist. She's just tough. Oh, my God. You go ahead and watch this clip. you tell me who I was right about that. We also, maybe we'll get to cover this the Virginia election at some point, but there's this wild AG scandal going on. It's a disaster. And a guy apparently was quoting Michael Scott from the office, but took four days to say that and got

painted as somebody setting out death threats or something. I don't know. The whole thing is incredible. Might cost Democrats everything in Virginia. We'll see. As it was mentioned on the show yesterday, Alex Colson, the drop site, our drop site journal colleague, and more than 100 others were released from Israeli prison. But overnight, nine more ships were illegally seized by Israel in international waters, including the conscience and like eight other ships, more than 150 doctors, journalists, nurses on their way to deliver, said they had about $115,000 worth of aid to deliver. So that's now in the hands of the Israelis. And Pam Bondi was testifying in the Senate yesterday, so a lot of highlights from her very

contentious testimony. And it really ran the gamut, as you would expect it to, from a lot of questions about Epstein, but also some questions about that Katari Jet, some questions about the National Guard, the uses of the National Guard, and much more. So stay tuned for the highlights and lowlights of Pam Bondi's testimony, Andrew Cuomo, making the rounds, talking to new rule, talking to the view, it's really something. And we'll talk a bit about Zaraamamani's controversial, I guess we can say. You're mad. 10-7 hosts. We'll break down the controversy, the non-traversy, whatever you want to call it, and get to that. There's also, we're going to be talking to one of the journalists who broke a story wide open about the Argentinian bailout

that we covered last week in the soybean context, is what we talked about last week. But Actually, how did that money from the United States end up going to Argentina? Why is probably the better way to put it? Why did that money end up going? There are many explanations, but I think he landed on a pretty good one, Ryan. Yep. Yeah, Eugenia Muzio will be joining us from Argentina, who's done a lot of the reporting that exposed which particular hedge fund executives were lobbying,

our hedge fund executive, who now serves as Secretary of Treasury, to give Millay a whole bunch of money to bail them out and screw our farmers along the way. It's good for everyone. Yeah. Win, win, win. And some L's here at home, but that's okay. Yeah, whatever.

Don't worry about it. Okay, so should we get to the shutdown? Yeah, and then we'll talk about some David Frum and Douglas Murray stuff at the very end. That's right, because you, yeah, this is the tease. Let's bring this intro full circle. Ryan teased, support breaking points.com, premium memberships.

If you can't like and subscribe, it helps us so much. and leave comments that helps us so much. But Ryan has a piece of original reporting that I was going to say dropped at drop site last night, but I felt really bad saying that. But it's something else. Yeah. And then we'll also have, Israel also got caught with a running, basically a bot campaign trying to prop up a new Shah in Iran. We'll talk to Nagra Montezavi about that later in the program.

It's just, like how do you even keep your head around any of this stuff? I don't know, but I'm glad that at least. that's just bots at this point. Yeah, it's just bots all the way down. All right, let's get to the shutdown. So yesterday, Donald Trump took questions in the Oval Office. We're going to bring you some of those comments, basically centered around federal workers

and a roller clip of John Stewart for his insight into how Democrats should be handling this. But before we do, that's what Trump is going to be talking about. It's what the conversation was about on Capitol Hill. It's this question of back pay for furloughed workers. The Trump administration is actually insisting that it can just get rid of a lot of workers and then not pay a lot of workers as a way to sort of up the ante for Democrats.

So with that in mind, let's go ahead and roll this clip of John Stewart talking about how Democrats should be handling the shutdown fight. 75 million Americans voted for a Democrat in this last round of presidential elections. And at this moment, they have zero power at the federal level, not in the House, not in the Senate, not in the executive, and not in the courts. There has not been a moment of conciliation or concern about the issues and policies that drove those 75 million votes. Not a moment. At present, the Democrat's largest victory over these past eight months is getting a guy who may or may not be a criminal back from El Salvador so Trump could send him to Uganda.

That was the big win. And then suddenly, a small ask for people. preservation of health care is a Molotov cocktail. Look, I've given Democrats an enormous amount of shit for their poor leadership. Lack of specific and actionable plans, terrible messaging, abysmal wordplay. Did I mention poor leadership? But standing up for 75 million Americans in this moment

to defend the rights of people to go into a little less medical debt seems like the least they can fucking do. So Donald Trump and Russ vote over at the Office of Management and Budget are trying to change the calculus for Democrats away from even what John Stewart is saying there and complicate the shutdown conversation. Let's go ahead and roll this clip of Donald Trump in the Oval Office getting questions about whether federal workers should be entitled to back pay.

There was a memo from Russ vote that suggested otherwise. Here's Donald Trump. Is it the White House's position that federal workers should be paid for their back pay? I would say it depends on who we're talking about. I can tell you this, the Democrats have put a lot of people in great risk and jeopardy, but it really depends on who you're talking about. But for the most part, we're going to take care of our people. There are some people that really don't deserve to be taken care of,

and we'll take care of them in a different way. Okay, so that didn't sit well. Actually, even with some Republicans, we'll put A3 on the screen. This is Mike Johnson's website still saying that you actually have to pay, back pay to federal workers, Sam Stein picked up on that, although Mike Johnson is, of course, supportive of everything Trump says for the most part at this moment. John Kennedy of Louisiana is not. We could go ahead here and roll A4. The president, it's not up to the president. I mean, his opinion matters, but Congress has got to

appropriate the money. Read the Constitution. Do you think it's legal for federal workers? We've always, we've always paid, backpaid to the military and federal. workers, and Congress has already always appropriated the money, and we will this time and not going. So this comes down to a dispute over whether Russ vote is or is not correctly interpreting what kind of powers he has during a shutdown. I'm going to read from NPR here, quote, the shutdown does not give vote or the White

House any extra powers, according to Bridget Dooling, a law professor at the Ohio State University who worked at OMB for over decades. She argues it's a clear misunderstanding of the differences between temporary lapses and appropriations, which is what a shutdown is, versus. permanently laying off workers. She says, quote, this is a bluff. The White House, meanwhile, says Democrats have left them no choice, but to look for savings across the federal government, but they've not explained why permanent layoffs would be necessary and not just temporary furloughs. So, Ryan, this is yet another debate about executive power

and how the Trump administration is challenging norms, not just norms, but also interpretations that have become norms, as it relates to the power of the purse strings, and the the power of the executive branch. All that is to say, I think some of this is a bluff. I also think it goes into that bigger picture conversation about executive power they're forcing right now. Right. And people say, well, it's federal law. Well, federal law is literally what Congress says is federal law. Congress rights to federal law. So theoretically, they could come in and say, you know, we're not, well, there's minimum wages that you have to pay to people. Kennedy is right.

Congress appropriates money. If you appropriated it, then you have to give it to them. So the president can't just come in and say, well, I didn't like these workers, but I did like these workers. And federal workers are all over the country. There's this idea that they're really only here in Washington and Virginia and Maryland, but that's not at all the case. Oh, yeah, it's like 80% of federal workers are outside the D.C. area. Right. And so, and they all, like, Kennedy, it's just wrong, like, because it's not their fault. Like, these are, I think Kennedy just gets it on a basic level.

These are people who have jobs. They did their jobs. They were told they cannot come to work. They're now going to be asked to miss multiple paychecks probably, which how many people out there watching this can just miss two or three paychecks? Yeah. And without your entire thing coming crashing down, getting in the letters that you start getting and sort of have red lines under them and, you know, they're printed on red paper.

so he gets that it's just untenable ethically to not pay them when it's no fault of their own and also as as he has pointed out every single time they have they have paid the workers in the in whatever deal they come up with so i don't i can't imagine a world in which democrats do this whole thing because they're ready to fight fight fight fight fight fight fight but then at the very end they cave on paying their work the workers like i just you republicans would have to nuke the philipers filibuster made to, like, get around paying the workers. And they don't have the votes for that because Kennedy and others are not with them on it. Unless, yeah, I mean, they would, they would have to nuke

the filbuster. I'm trying to think if there's another, like, legislative maneuver, if they could tag it into something else. No, and also, it's not just Kennedy. Like, Susan Collins is not voting for that. Murkowski would not vote for that. So now, now you're down to 50 without, and the, you know, something is Utah guys, done. Like, you don't have the votes to not pay the federal workers, Russ vote. So while we're on the topic of Republicans and their leverage or lack thereof to continue the shutdown going, let's roll this clip actually about FAA delays. It's a complicated question as to how FAA ends up with delays during the, or how air travel

ends up with delays during a shutdown. We'll break it down. But let's roll this clip. The air traffic control facility responsible for flights approaching and departing Nashville International Airport are set to close for five hours tonight because of short staffing. The Federal Aviation Administration says that flights will still be allowed to continue flying during the closure, but pilots are going to have to contact the regional air traffic control center for permission to enter the airspace. So the reason being given for the staff shortage, that's not immediately clear.

Secretary of Transportation, Sean Duffy, though, did say on Monday an increased number of controllers have been calling out six since the start of the shutdown. So if there's this idea that workers might not even get their back pay, we saw in a 2019 shutdown, and this is the New York Times noted that, this morning. Quote, controllers at important facilities began calling in sick at high rates, contributing to widespread flight delays and bringing a swift end to that shutdown. On Monday, Sean Duffy said he had seen a slight tick up in sick calls from controllers since the current shutdown began last week. Ryan, I don't know about you. I would expect that to go up

when you start talking about potentially taking away the back pay. Right. And as we said, they're going, like they don't have the votes to not pay them. So it's just a bluff. But the bluff gets hurt around the world, especially if you're a federal worker. You're following this news very closely. So then you're like, all right, well, I'm sick. If I'm not getting paid for this, then I'm not coming in. Yeah. You're asking people to, like, risk just having volunteered as an air traffic controller

in these conditions of which they're already completely understaffed. Now, to your point, I think they're going to get paid. I do think that it's a bluff, but I think it's a bluff in the context of this big picture reorganization that Rusto is architecting to consolidate powers he believes should be in the executive branch, in the executive branch. Which is all of them. Many of them. And I actually don't think he's wrong about some of them.

We've debated that before. But in this case, they are trying to take away. They're trying to blame Democrats, get Democrats to be blamed. Like the John Stewart argument, they're trying to undercut for Democrats by saying, well, look at what you're doing to federal workers. We have no choice. That was the line from Mike Johnson. and it's like, Russ has no choice.

Democrats have left him with this choice. I don't know how well that's actually going to work when you are making the decisions in the executive branch for what's happening. It's not necessarily part of the government shutdown so that you have to, nobody, everybody knows this hasn't happened before during government shutdown.

So I think the politics of that argument aren't super easy. Right, and the way that this should end is that, frankly, Republicans should just cave on the substance here because think about it. What do Democrats want? They want to save Republicans from a massively damaging political hit where 20 million people will see their health insurance premiums double in an election year. And Democrats are trying to save them from that.

And who agrees with me? None other than Marjorie Taylor Green. Well, we'll get to that one second. What did you make of the John Stewart argument? Well, that is the argument. That's the thing that, like, they have no plan. they've got no vision, they've got no message, but they have to do try something. Like that, like that's all that boils down to.

So how long, I mean, do you think Democrats, the politics of it, how long does it make sense for them to avoid coming to the table? I expect that eventually they will come to the table on the question of health care. And again, we went through the specifics of that last week. And I think they'll have to give something on it. Right. So probably non-citizen ACA enrollment or federal subsidies. And Democrats keep saying, we are not providing.

health insurance to illegal immigrants. Right. So then just figure out a way to write that. Well, I mean, they would have to come to the table on the federal hospital reimbursements, Medicaid reimbursements, and ACA enrollments for asylum seekers and probably all of that. I mean, if Republicans keep trying to just undermine their own hospitals, like, so people who are undocumented come into hospitals. Right.

So what would Republicans want done to a hospital who is, required to treat somebody. Well, even the Republican plan includes reimbursements. It's just a lower level of reimbursements. Which is, you know, a lot of that is rural hospitals. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, anyway. But that's where I think that they probably will have to give some. But why lower levels? Like, are the hospitals, like rural hospitals are too rich? Like, what are they trying to do? I mean, I'm sure it has something to do with the influx of the last several years that federal reimbursements have skyrocketed for those hospitals. Right. And we should, but, okay. Okay, and there's a point in the Marjorie, on the MTG post that actually goes directly to that.

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Marjorie Taylor Green, Republican, obviously Republican Marjorie Taylor Green, is breaking with her party on this question of subsidies and, honestly, in a very smart and principled way. If I may say so, let's put this. This is a video of Marjorie Taylor Green talking about her stance. She put a couple of tweets out over the course of the last couple of days, breaking with the GOP on whether or not or how they should negotiate during the shutdown.

And it is a sea change for the last, what, 15 years of Republican politics. If this sticks, and it's not just Marjorie Taylor Green. I'll say it is a sea change in and of itself, given the popularity of Marjor Tilly Green with average MAGA and Republican voters. So here she is talking about her stance on health care. And to allow Democrats to have some sort of moral high ground on this issue, because they're only one, the only ones talking about it, I think is a major failure from the Republican Party. And I'm not going to stand there and just keep talking the talking points when my own adult children can hardly afford health insurance premiums. When everyone in my district, it's the number one issue that I hear about day in and day out, not just people on the ACA, but people that have private insurance as well.

And I think it's something that we have to talk about. And I don't see why the government needs to be shut down. I really don't. I believe that if Republicans learn to govern and weld power, they can use the nuclear option in the Senate. They can open up the government. We can get back to work for the American people, and Republicans can solve this problem. that is a very big problem that we can't ignore. So I co-sign basically all of that, right?

And we can put her original posts up. She, like, shattered the Republican consensus on X by a couple of really long posts. But she said I was not in Congress when all this Obamacare Affordable Care Act bullshit started I got here in 2021. And she goes on to say the ACA made health insurance unaffordable for her family. And this is actually she talked in the Megan Kelly interview. she did, what, like a month or more ago now, that the Affordable Care Act fight was completely formative to her political journey.

Like, that's part of what got her into politics, many such cases on the right. And she says, I'm not towing the party line on this. I'm going to go against everyone on this issue because when the tax credits expire this year, my own adult children's insurance premiums for 2026 are going to double, along with all the wonderful families and hardworking people in my district. We can go ahead and put her next. This is 8. Wait, hold on.

So there's some good other good stuff in here. She's cooking. Yeah. All our country does is fund foreign countries and foreign wars and never does any, never does anything to help the American people. Lots of exclamation points. Mm-hmm. It is true.

It is absolutely shameful discussing in traders that our laws and policies screw the American people so much that the government is shut down right now, fighting over basic issues like this. Again, and this is her, this key point that I want to bring up later. Again, no funding for illegals and any benefits for them, but we have to do something about the absolutely insane cost of insurance for Americans. You don't hate your government enough. I'm here in Washington, D.C. this week to meet with anyone who is America only and will work with me on a plan for Americans only. And then she has a kind of a chat CPT, but a bunch of

stats about how absolutely brutal it is for health insurance. She picks up on the illegal's point, again, in the next one, if you want to do, the toothpaste is out of the tube. She says the toothpaste is out of the tube on Obamacare. And the argument she's making here is, is she says trying to make clear that I think the entire system is messed up. She goes on to say, and this is, Ryan, is this what you were looking for? We are importing doctors from foreign countries because we don't have enough American doctors who are being strangled by health insurance companies and regulations. People with insurance are crushed by high hospital bills that subsidized uninsured people's

hospital bills. The list of problems goes on and on. And ding, ding, ding, ding. So that's where I would stop her. Yeah. All right. people with insurance are crushed by high hospital bills that subsidize uninsured people's hospital bills.

Yet her party's push is to increase the number of people who are uninsured, which according to her own logic, and she is absolutely correct, only increases the costs. for hospitals, which are passed on to people with insurance. Yeah. So what are you doing here? Like, so stop. Like, what I would say is separate out your immigration policy and your health care policy. Stop trying to do them together.

There's nobody coming across the border, like zero. Like actually less than zero. Yeah. We have a net outflow of people probably at this point. You're rounding up everybody that's a little bit darker than me. Like, you're doing your immigration policy. If you believe that uninsured people getting emergency treatment at hospitals because they can't afford to go to, they don't have insurance to just go to a doctor and do it the right way, drives up the cost for all of us, everybody else. Why you want to do that?

Like, if you think that's bad, don't do it. I know that's a crazy idea. But if you think it has a bad policy outcome for Americans, you're American only, right? you guys are all American only. So hunting people who are actually here legally, but you don't like their status because you think that Biden shouldn't have given them the status that they currently have,

although even though it is legal status and they're in legal, like they're in legal proceedings. Although the hospital reimbursements do cover people who are not here legally. Right. So do you want the government to do that? Or do you want the hospitals to charge Americans more when they come in?

Like, what are you doing? Like, if you think, that prices are too high for your adult children? Are you serious about that? If you're serious about that, then enact a policy that makes the prices come down, not something that just needlessly goes after undocumented people. Like, you don't like undocumented people. You're showing us that. Like, there's no mystery. You don't like them. You're rounding them up. You're chasing them everywhere. You're throwing them into paddy wagons. You're putting them in tents. The alligator Alcatraz is still going. You're making things as miserable for them so that they

self-deport like you're you're doing it all right but then why also just for pettiness drive up americans health care costs i'm trying to speak their language here americans americans americans right you're driving up the health insurance costs for americans just out of some sense of bitterness now i guess the argument well it's if if somebody from el salvador understands that they can get free medical care at a hospital when they have a fever in america then they're going to run through the Darien Gap and, like, pay all this money, like, that it's some pull thing, stop. Like, that's not serious.

It does make it significantly easier to live here when you're, when you don't have, when you're, when you're. But the only other possibility is not happening, which would be you, when you show up at a hospital, you have to show your papers. And if you don't have the proper papers, you are denied care. And that's never going to happen. So we're going to treat people who are here who are sick and dying. We're going to do it.

So the question is, how are we going to do it? Well, this is what I like about her argument is that she's tapping out of this stupid, stupid notion from Republicans that they should have their constituents and American taxpayers who are already paying crazy amounts in their health insurance. They should just expect them to trust that Republicans at some point will fix this broken system. and in the meantime, hold them hostage to a hike, all because Biden is the one that put the subsidies in place. Like, it is completely stupid. It's a ridiculous argument.

Did the CARES Act have some subsidies? It may have. Which is true. That was Trump. Yeah, it absolutely may have. So 2021 comes from Biden, and that's where you explained. You broke this down in detail last week. That's where a lot of the premiums, which would be affected,

because those are expiring at the end of the year. And so the Republican plan to fund the government would strip away those credit, or it doesn't extend them after they expire at the end of the year. And this is where Marjorie Taylor Green is tapping into. No, I'm wrong. No cares. You're wrong. Okay. No cares.

But this is where Marjorie Taylor Green is actually tapping into something that it should be conventional wisdom. It should be completely obvious to people who are paid stupid amounts of money as lobbyists and consultants to these idiot politicians or Republicans. seriously, people's premiums are going to become, they're already insane, they're going to become more insane, it's going to be on your watch, and you're doing all of it just with this vague promise that at some point Republicans are going to fix the entire healthcare system when they had all of the momentum in the world behind repeal and replace, could not land on a consensus replace part of repeal and replaced precisely because of this. And what I like about what Roger Tilly Green is saying is that, like, listen, I think it's

true that those Biden-era subsidies in the long-term actually are, and some parts of Obamacare, actually are causing health care to get more expensive and have over time. I get that. And that's what she's saying, too, is like, it's true. But you are not fixing the system. You're just making the system worse by not extending the premiums, the relief. And so, yes, I get it that in the long term, all of these subsidies are making a bad system worse. But you're not fixing the system. And you're asking people to suffer and pay even more money into a bad system that you are not doing shit about in the process. It's completely, it's like the politics of it are insane. The substance and the morality of it is completely insane. And Marjorie Tiller-Green is the only

person, the only person out here making this argument for Republicans. Like, we hinted at it last week, or at least I did from the right, hinted at it last week, but you hear absolutely nothing else about it from the right, essentially, even though it seems. Ryan, like a very, very obvious point. I think that's right. And I don't want to sound too harsh on MTG here because I'm like I'm with her on almost all of this. And I think she's getting to the right place. Like I think I think I think what she's shown herself as willing to do is to be an independent thinker who follows her own logical train to its conclusion whether or not that conclusion

aligns with what she's supposed to think as a partisan. Right. Because she's supposed to think as a partisan that you're against these subsidies. Yes. And but she worked it out independently. And she's like, wait a minute. No, I'm sorry. Like, this is not good. Like we actually should be for this. So I could, I think that if she's able to, this is a giant if, get past this whole illegal thing, she'll figure out that, oh, yes, uninsured people coming to hospitals causes huge problems to the system, which are then born by Americans who have health insurance. We need to do, something about that, whether it's some government subsidy for hospitals, which exists, and we just buffed that up so that it doesn't get passed on to Americans, whatever it is,

just figure out something, because it shouldn't be, the failures of the American government should not be the responsibility of these insured American people if we're not actually a democracy. Like, you know, if you're a real democracy and you screw up your policy, then yeah, that's on you. But we're not really one. So we should be held a little bit more blameless. And already there's a story here in NBC News. Trump has called senior Republicans to ask, quote, what's going on with Marjorie? The answer, MTG has become disillusioned with her party, especially after the White House talked her out of her Senate bid. Well, I would add to that, I think it's pretty obvious the pushback she's gotten on Israel. As again, she emphasizes, an ardent supporter of Israel has been completely transformative for her in the way she looks at her. her own party. She's never been, you know, a sort of lockstep supporter of the Republican Party, but I just think this is a, the bigger point that I'll finish on, Ryan is just like, the blinking red lights should be freaking Republicans out right now, and they're not listening

to any of it. You have Normie responses, like the new Zach Bryan song about ice coming and knocking down on your door, and Republicans are ready to like Dixie Chick's 2.0, I think, in the words of John Rich, Joe Rogan has said, what are you doing? Like, cut the stuff out. And whatever we may or may not disagree with these guys on, like, that is, these are flashing red lights for Republicans that they feel like they have all of this cultural momentum after 2024 in a way that they thought they never could. They had Silicon Valley on their side. Some people from Hollywood, some celebrities, Trump wins the popular vote. And now their grand project, I think they're wildly overconfident in their ability to sell it to the American people.

It's not just that they feel like they have this generational opportunity to kind of reorganize the government, because obviously they think that they do. It's the question of then what's part of that project and then how do you sell it? And right now, they're so completely out of touch with their own voters, people who are like independent swing voters, people who are rural voters. it's not to say Democrats are in touch because they aren't either, and that's a sad statement on the system that basically nobody has is in touch with voters. And that's, by the way, how you end up in a situation where people are desperate

and take matters into their own hands and do vigilante bullshit more and more in the future because they feel like the system isn't working anymore. Right. And Trump was elected because prices are too high, life is too hard. Yeah. And everything he's doing is making things more expensive. And now Democrats are trying to save him from doubling health insurance premiums. And Marjorie Taylor Green is trying to save him from doubling health insurance premiums. And Trump thinks that Democrats are communists and that what's wrong with Marjorie Taylor Green?

Here's an idea. Just don't double health insurance premiums. What am I now? It might actually work with your own voters. Yeah. Who don't want to pay double for crappy insurance. Yeah, it's the instincts that, like, Steve Bannon has, not to keep going on about this, but on MAGA not wanting entitlements touched. Trump has always had that instinct too.

But here, I mean, it should, again, be flashing red lights abundantly obvious that just because these are Biden subsidies that in the long term are making a bad system worse, you don't double people's premiums. It's insane. And meanwhile, let's definitely also not do anything about Epstein. Yes, of course, because that's also something nobody cares about it. Giant hoax. All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved, until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her. We know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

I did not know her and I did not kill her, or rape or burn, or any of that other stuff. that you all said it. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her. From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far

our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

fall in love again. And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. And he got down and I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother

tried to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look to people in the eye, You're not always hide behind a microphone. Listen to Heavyweight on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast.

I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only, Cardi B. My marriage, I felt the love dying. I was crying every day. I felt in the deepest depression that I, I had ever had. How do you think you're misunderstood? I'm not this evil, mean person that people think that I am. I'm too compassionate.

I have sympathy for that fuck my man. You put so much heart and soul into your work? What's the hardest part for you to take that criticism? This shit was not given to me. I worked my ass off for me. Even when I was a stripper, I'm gonna be the best pole dancer in here. When was the moment you felt I did it? I still, to this day, don't feel coming.

I fight every day to keep this level of success because people want to take it from you so bad. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Attorney General Pam Bondi wandered over to the upper chamber for a little bit of Epstein question and no answer session with the senators. Let's roll B1 here, retiring Dick Durbin. General Bondi, why did you publicly claim to have the Epstein client list waiting for your review and then produce nothing relevant to that claim? Senator Durbin, if you listen to my entire clip on that, I said I had not reviewed it yet, that it was sitting on my desk along with the JFK files, the Martin Luther King files,

and I said I had not yet reviewed it. Why was the July 7th memo unsigned? The July 7th memo came from the FBI and the Department of Justice Director Patel answered those questions very clear. And, you know, Senator Durbin, I find it very interesting that you refused repeated Republican request to release the Epstein flight logs in 2023 and 2024. You fought that. Did you take money from Reed Hoffman campaign donations? I will quarrel with you is to read somebody that you mentioned I never heard of. Reid Hoffman.

So who gave the order to flag records related to President Trump? To flag records for President Trump? To flag any records, which included his name. I'm not going to discuss anything about that with you, Senator. Eventually, you're going to have to answer for your conduct in this. You won't do it today, but eventually you will. Can't imagine who would have given that order. Can you? I mean, it's hard to say.

There's so many possibilities. Actually, you know, it's funny. There are really so many possibilities. It could have been anyone who wanted to protect the president other than the president, or you just don't even need to say anything. Yeah, right. That's true. Sheldon White House also a little bit of back and forth as roll B2.

There's been public reporting that Jeffrey Epstein showed people photos of President Trump with half-naked young women. Do you know if the FBI found those photographs in their search of Jeffrey Epstein's safe or premises or otherwise? Have you seen any such thing? You know, Senator White House, you sit here and make salacious remarks once again trying to slander President Trump left and right. When you're the one who was taking money from one of Epstein's closest confidence, I believe, I could be wrong, correct me, Reid Hoffman, who was with Jeffrey Epstein on multiple occasions. And the senator sitting right next to you tried to block.

the flight logs from being released. Yeah, you're grilling me on President Trump and some photograph with Epstein. Come on. The question is, did the FBI find those photographs that have been discussed publicly by a witness who claimed Jeffrey Epstein showed them to him? You don't know anything about that? Okay. If you weren't watching that, her face at the end.

She looked like she was in physical pain. This also underscores why it would be cool to have an actual opposition party? Because, so Reed Hoffman, for people who don't know, is the LinkedIn billionaire and has spent ungodly amounts of money trying to smash the left wing, the populist wing of the Democratic Party. So just figuring out ways to go after specifically Bernie Sanders, AOC, Rashida's lead, Cory Bush, Jamal Bowman, the whole squad, and anybody who's remotely adjacent to them. So that was Reid Hoffman's project. His whole idea is we're going to beat Trump by first smashing the populist wing of the Democratic Party because in his theory, well, I think two theories. One is that

he doesn't like the populace wings. They want to tax people. They don't like oligarchs. But his actual surface argument was those are unpopular people and Democrats would be more popular if it's just like the Dick Durbin's in the White House's of the world who don't really say anything offensive to anybody, and then they will win just by not being Trump. So that's this billionaire who became deeply involved in democratic politics, and was also tight with this creep Epstein. So again, imagine if you had just an opposition party that could cleanly say, we don't have anything to do with Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah. Because he represents the oligart class. Right. And we're not with them. Right. But you're not going to find Mamdani on a plane with Epstein.

And it doesn't have anything to do with personal morality. It's just they're not floating around with the oligarchs. So it kind of allows this tap dance that Bondi is doing, yet it's still completely unconvincing. It's like, where are the photos? Where's the photos? Where's the photos? You said you've got them on your desk. Right.

Like, where are they? Right. No, I mean, actually, I think that point is important that even with that ammunition, Pam Bondi comes into this hearing, knowing that White House, for example, is connected with Reed Epstein, and that actually Dick Durbin has fought Marsha Blackburn in the past when Democrats were in power over the flight logs. All that's true, but Pam Bondi still had this complete, she was doing one of two things. She was either deflecting to blame Dems for their own connections or for their own corruption, which, as Ryan points out, there's plenty of you to work with.

but it looks like a deflection. Or, as we saw at the end of that clip, she's just not answering. She's just standing there, or sitting there blank-faced or saying, I don't know, I don't know. Adam Schiff, of all people, speaking of the...

Shifty Schiff? Speaking of corrupt Democrats, let's go ahead and rule Adam Schiff. Schiff, what I would say, actually, I can't believe I'm even saying this, like getting the better of Pam Bondi in this exchange. Shifty Shift is good in these hearings for the most part.

He's not always, you know, on the up-and-up. Theater kid, maybe. Maybe that's what this is. All right, B-3. You were asked whether you consulted with career ethics lawyers, as you promised you would do, during your nomination hearing, when you approve the president receiving a $400 million gift from the Qataris.

You refused to answer that question. You are asked who or what role you may have played or who played the role in asking that Trump's name be flagged in any of the Epstein documents gathered by the FBI. You refused to answer that question. You were asked whether Holman kept the $50,000 bribe money. You refused to answer that question. You were asked whether Holman paid taxes on the $50,000 bribe money. You refused to answer that question.

You were asked, did career prosecutors find insufficient evidence to charge James Comey? You refused to answer that question. This is supposed to be an oversight hearing. Oversight? Excuse me. You can attack me after my time is over. Oh, we've attacked all of us. You can attack me later, and I know you've got plenty of canned attacks.

We've heard them all day-to-day. Can't attacks on you? This is supposed to be... No one needs a canned attack on you. Regular order, Madam Chair, I'm trying to speak. This is supposed to be an oversight hearing of the Justice Department. And it comes in the wake of an indictment called for by the president of one of his enemies. This is supposed to be an oversight hearing, and it comes in the wake of revelations that a top administration official took $50,000.

in a bag. And this department made that investigation go away. Oversight. It's like, we're talking to practice? We're talking of practice? So she got more questions about Tom Holman. This is what Adam Schiff was alluding to. We can go ahead and roll B-4. Is there a tape that has audio and video of the transfer of the 50,000? You would have to talk to Director Patel about that. No, I'm talking to you. I don't know the answer, Senator. Yet, you do know the answer to that. Don't call me a liar? I didn't call you a liar. You just said I know the answer. I said I don't know the answer. You have to talk to Director Patel. What I said is that investigation was closed. If you don't

know, why don't you know whether there was a tape and video? Senator, I believe that was resolved prior to my confirmation as Attorney General. Do you think that it is of public interest for the people to know what happened to the 50 grand that the FBI turned over to Homan? Did you hear what I just said, that was resolved prior to my confirmation as Attorney General. That's why I said I would not know. It's not resolved. There's $50,000. Homan has it or somebody has it. Do you have no interest to know where it is? You're not going to sit here and slander Tom Homan. Well, Tom Homan did nothing wrong. They did indeed continue to ask questions about Tom Homan, and she will continue to get asked questions about Tom Holman.

There's no doubt about that, Ryan. And, I mean, the Epstein story is really the best illustration of the situation that people like Pambandhi, Cash Patel, Dan Bonino, and others find themselves in because they tagged along in Maga World with this idea of draining the swamp and dismantling the deep state. And whether or not they were ever sincere or they ever thought Trump was truly sincere about that, they now find themselves in this position. And Epstein is the best illustration of it of being the deep state and being defensive of their actions as part of the deep state. And so not only does it allow Democrats to have this new, I don't know if I can call it moral high ground. I don't really think anyone has the moral high ground here, but this ability to sort of claim the populist mantle and say we're trying to get questions about or we're trying to get answers about all of this different corruption, whether it's Epstein, It's a bribe and a Kava bag, which is the allegation around Tom Holman. And Bondi's doing her best to undercut it by pointing out, hey, you guys have problems, too.

But she's the one in power now. Right. And also, where's the $50,000 that was in the Kava bag? It's like, it's still in the Kava bag. It's a very hard question to what about. Like, haven't you taken $50 grand in a Kava bag? Let me just start over because this one apparently is too confusing for you to, just answer directly, where's the $50,000 that was in the Kava bag that he took in order

to steer contracts? Well, and are they even saying that he did take it? Like, this is, we don't have a lot of ideas about. Yeah, I mean, the reporting was that he took it. Right, but is the DOJ right now saying that he actually took it or that he didn't? Because... Right, they're not saying. Right.

They're not saying anything. Although the White House at one point said, that's misinformation. Right. Right. But it's like, okay, well, that's your opinion, man. And Holman has said, I did nothing criminal. I did nothing illegal. So it sounds like Homer probably accepted a bag.

I will say. With $50,000. Right, right, right. I will say there are some stuff in this story. You could potentially, potentially, I don't know what percentage chance this is, but you could potentially look at entrapment, but they're not saying enough to, I mean, if it was a cut and dry entrapment case, they would be out there talking about how Tom Holman was entrapped by the deep state.

They should have asked if he wanted to, like, like blow up a bridge with his paintball buddies. Then he'd be doing life in prison. Crazy times. Crazy times. So, yeah, not an easy day for Pam Bondi, nor will it be, as she continues, she will continue to have to sit for at these hearings.

No. All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

I did not know her and I did not kill her, or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her. From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I pointed the gun at. him and said this isn't a joke.

And he got down, and I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother tried to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look to people in the eye.

Not always hide behind a microphone. Listen to Heavyweight on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only, Cardi B. My marriage, I felt the love dying.

I was crying every day. I felt in the deepest depression that I had ever had. How do you think you're misunderstood? I'm not this evil, mean person that people think that I am. I'm too compassionate. I have sympathy for that my man. To put so much heart and soul into your work, what's the hardest part for you to take that criticism?

This shit was not given to me. I worked my ass off for me. Even when I was a stripper, I'm gonna be the best pole dancer in here. When was the moment you felt I did it? I still, to this day, don't feel comfortable. I fight every day to keep this level of success because people want to take it from you so bad.

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaking of Justice Department targets, Andrew Cuomo. Yeah, the theme today is corruption. Yes. So Andrew Cuomo is still running for mayor of New York City. Eric Adams has dropped out. I saw Bill Ackman begging the beret wearing Curtis Slewa.

Who people keep finding, like, archival clips of Curtis Slewa being a real one. Like, this guy's fun. Who's not fun? Andrew Cuomo, here he is on Stephanie Rule. There is no governor in the United States of America. No elected official who fought more with Donald Trump than I did. None. You share a lot of his same donors right now.

There are a lot of New Yorkers who are very excited about your campaign, who are also very excited about Donald Trump. Don't tell me that's not true. Are there New Yorkers who gave money to me? gave money to Donald Trump, of course. Of course. Why is that and of course? Well, why not? If you are a New Yorker, you know Donald Trump,

you know me, many of them would give money to Donald Trump and give money to me and money. Why? What are you and Donald Trump share in common? We're New Yorkers. They know me, they know him. But let's just stay on this, and I don't want to take too much more of your time

because I'm surprised by this. You think that something about Donald Trump makes someone give Donald Trump a check and Andrew Cuomo a check. What is that thing that the two of you both share? I think there are people who know him and people who know me. What are those things? The personal knowledge, he lived here, I live here. You may be a friend of Donald Trump.

You may know me. You may contribute to him. You may contribute to me. There's no similarity. So there's, I mean, what are you going to do? It's ridiculous. His idea that Cuomo is the last one that Trump wants to be mayor, like Trump is publicly actively campaigning for him, basically.

Like, who are you lying to? I love it when the politician is so bad. That's Stephanie Ruhl looks like Walter Cronkett. That's incredible stuff. I mean, she spotted that. She's like, hold on a second here. This is perfect. Yeah, let's roll C2 also.

You were not criminally charged, but investigators in the DOJ have found the claims credible. So what do you say to voters who have a hard time looking past this? Yeah, it's a good question. When the report was issued, I said I believe it was politically motivated, and it was, I didn't even know the allegations at that time, right? It was done in a report. I didn't even know who the individuals were. We then spent five years. That report went to five district attorneys all over the state. No one found anything.

It was then civilly litigated in court, the individual actions for five years. That came to nothing. I was dropped from the cases. So nothing came from those allegations. I did say if I offended anyone in any way, I didn't mean it. And I learned a lesson, a painful lesson, which is to be much more cautious about everything you say, any joke, any comment, I won't kiss a person on the cheek unless they initiate a kiss. So it taught me a lesson just to be super cautious because there is a sensitivity.

that has evolved, that is real. If people feel it, it's true, and it has to be respected. I mean, the other allegations were much more serious than kissing on the cheek. It's an incredible clip. Yeah, anyway. That was on the view, by the way. First was the second one was on the view. I mean, Ryan, I don't, has anyone ever considered him?

Because my memory is yes, to be a talented politician in his own right and not someone who coasted off his father's name and his family's connections. Because back in COVID, obviously, there were a million different stories at first about how brilliantly he was handling it in New York. But it just seems like so obvious that he's not a good politician. He's bad at this. And he thinks he's good at it because he's coasted, again, off of his name and his family connections for so long. Not exactly. What he is is he's a very good old school, Tammany Hall, New York style. politician. Which doesn't necessarily work in this media climate. He's not somebody who appeals to people. He very deliberately prevented New York from being a place where you could have

mass democracy. I don't know if people know this story, but there was this thing called the Independent Democratic Conference that existed in this New York Senate, which Cuomo created and organized to caucus with Republicans so that Republicans. So that Republicans, Republicans would control, without having won the votes, would control the New York Senate. You're like, wait a minute, hold on a second. That's the wildest thing I've ever heard. Why would a Democrat actively elevate the Republicans to control the Senate? Well, because then voters can't do anything and demand anything.

Because all the demands then have to funnel through a divided Albany. And the system that he created was called three men in a room. And it was the leader of the Senate, leader of the assembly, and the governor. Three men, one room. Three men, one room. And it didn't matter what you wanted. Like, it didn't matter what you campaigned on. It didn't matter what voters said were their preferences out of New York.

What mattered was what these three men in the room wanted. And the way that they enforced discipline was through vengeance. and also through doling out cash. You sign up with us, you're on Team Cuomo, you're going to get the spoils. You don't, you will never work in this town again. And so he was very good at that kind of Albany knife wielding and very good at setting up a structure

that kept the public at bay. It was in 2018, so after Trump was elected in 2016, I cover this in my book, the New Yorkers started paying attention to politics for the first time. You would have turnout in these elections, like in the thousands.

DSA is like shot in the arm. DSA, but also importantly indivisible and these suburban women and women in the city and men, but driven by women who were like, wait a minute, what's the independent Democratic conference, but it

caucuses with Republicans? that that doesn't sound right and they're like oh no this is right this is a thing and they're like wait quomo did this so they recruited a bunch of challengers to these fake Democrats they and along with the Mamdani wave they beat and the AOC wave they beat these independent these IDC people they knocked them out and then they finally made it actually Democrat is the Senate and Democrat in the House assembly. And then they no longer had an excuse of why they couldn't pass anything. And so then they started passing a lot of clean energy stuff, all sorts of prison reform, like genuinely progressive stuff started getting done in New York. And that was an absolute nightmare for Cuomo. And he

started to unravel. He then got saved for a little while by COVID because he kind of looked authoritative compared to Trump when he was doing his like little TV things. But then people found out that he was like killing old people in the nursing homes and covering up the stats and so that and then the all the sexual harassment stuff came out and for some reason the story did not end there no here we are in 2025 mentioning the brother's name the story go away dude again the story didn't end when he lost an election he's sticking around yeah actually everything you just explained about his mastery of the spoil system in albany explains why he's also sort of like stone face deadpanning to Stephanie Rule, it's, why do I share donors with Donald Trump?

They know us, they know us. Right, my coalition is with Republicans, literally. But also, what we trade in is trust, like, in this personal knowledge system that, duh, this is what we do in New York. Of course, people who know us know that they can get stuff out of both of us. That's what he's saying. That's the unsaid part of it. He's basically rephrasing George Carlin.

He's like, well, why would they support me and Trump? Stephanie, because it's a big club and we're in it. Yeah, right. It's perfect. Yeah. It's perfect. And it's, I mean, it's so true that if you pull the FEC records of most very successful people, whether they're in New York or elsewhere, you find some donations to ours, some donations to these. They know what they're up to.

We're all friends here. Let's roll C3. This is another exchange that Cuomo had on the view. I am the last person President Trump wants as mayor of New York. because he dealt with me as governor. New Yorkers watched the movie every day. I, during COVID, I was the governor, he was the president. We fought on a daily basis. He came with all his threats and all his power in might, threatened to put me in jail, had me investigated twice by the Department of Justice, threatened to cut off federal funds. So he would like Mondani to win.

Mandami is a gift for him. A gift. He wants Mandami. Two reasons. One, going into the midterms, he will take a picture of Mandami, run around the country and say, here's what happened to the Democrats. They are now communists. They hate the police.

They legalize prostitution, legalized drugs. They want to elect this Democrat. No experience whatsoever. Being mayor of New York would be his first real job. real job. It's good for Donald Trump because it's the excuse he needs to take over New York, which he said he will do. Mamdami, they keep calling him mom dummy. But Ryan, in that exchange when Cuomo says Donald Trump, he's Donald Trump's worst nightmare. Andrew Cuomo is Donald Trump's

worst nightmare. Just incredible, incredible point. Because I think actually it's true, Republicans, to some extent, know that they'll be able to run just like the did with AOC, and they did this with Nancy Pelosi forever, but run the picture of Mamdani in ads and talk about him all the time and try to make him look like he's representative of where the Democratic Party is. That's all true. But Donald Trump does not want a Dem Socialist running his favorite city in the world. It's like just also the idea that he's afraid of Andrew Cuomo is completely insane too. What do you think Trump's actual night? are?

What's a Trump nightmare? Does he dream? These are the questions. I imagine him dreaming that there's somebody counting his golf strokes. I was just going to say that. I was just going to say that. They're like, you didn't have a four there. Calling him on it.

Yeah. That would be. He's like, I had a four. It's like, you were four still in the fairway. What are you talking about? That probably is. To the extent, I mean, if he dreams. And then there's all this footage and they're counting his strokes on the footage.

In order to have nightmares, one must sleep. must sleep. And Donald Trump does not sleep. So I'm skeptical of any of this. Probably why he doesn't sleep. He's probably scared of nightmares. Wow. It's going really deep here. So Zoron Mamdani posted his October 7th statement and it became, this is the most predictable news cycle in the world, a lightning rod for the broader Israel debate. We can put C4 on the screen. This is some coverage of it from Mediaite. And Ryan, this is one of your beats. One thing I would say, right off the bat is well here let you get into it and then the statement the statement is if you scroll down there'll be some tweets with it but um yeah here you two year two years ago today

Hamas carried out a horrific war crime killing more than 1,100 Israelis and kidnapping 250 more I mourn these lives and pray for the safe return of every hostage still held and for every family whose lives were torn apart by these atrocities in the aftermath of that day prime minister netanyahu and the Israeli government launched a genocidal war, a death toll that now far exceeds 67,000, with the Israeli military bombing homes, hospitals, and schools into rubble. Every day in Gaza has become a place where grief itself has run out of language. I mourn these lives and pray for the families that have been shattered. Our government has been complicit through it all.

This must end. The occupation and apartheid must end. Peace must be pursued through diplomacy, not war crimes. And our government must act to end these atrocities and hold those responsible to account. these last two years have demonstrated the very worst of humanity. We must answer it by modeling the very best, a relentless pursuit of our higher ideals and an unwavering commitment to universal human rights. The Atlantic's, David from, the Mediite notes, shared the statement and added, this is a genuinely useful statement, the Chile formulaic language about the 107 atrocity,

the intense, angry passion of the denunciation of Israel's self-defense. Together, they are restingly reveal what the author cares about and what who he does not care about, unquote. So that's David From, who we will talk about later in the program. We just busted him writing speeches for the Israeli ambassador while also profiling the Israeli ambassador. But back to the Mamdani statement, you notice at the top it says he got boasted by both sides. The left really did blast him over this. What the left did say is that this line, Hamas,

carried out a horrific war crime, killing more than 1,100 Israelis, is not factually true. There are more than 1,100 Israelis and some foreigners were killed. I don't think they're quibbling over the foreigners. We're killed on October 7th, but we know for an absolute fact that a non-trivial number were killed by Israel. Like that's, like that, Israeli media has reported that as a fact. We don't yet know the number of it. It may take it under 1,100. Like, that was the, that was what the left was saying.

Aaron Motei, right. Yeah, that, but I wouldn't say that the left was like piling on the state. No. Well, unless you can. Because also, if I, the left would also acknowledge, like, if Hamas did not launch the attack, Israel would not have been, you know, enacted the Hannibal directive to kill the, because it's this thing called the Hannibal directive where Israel has a doctrine where, whereby it's better to stop the hostages from becoming hostages by killing them in some cases,

because then you don't have to negotiate over them. You just kill them. It's like, you're like, well, that's insane. Yeah, that is insane, but that's like a thing that is done. It was done in some kibbutzim. It was done. It appears to have been done on the beach where I think 17 Israelis were killed. So it's a, it's a, we don't know the number yet, but it may be. enough to take it under 1,100. Anyway, that's the quibbling from the left. But the right... Well, but I mean, they're right-wing Democrats

that were upset with the statement, too. That's... Oh, I see. So they're saying that right-wing Democrats. Yeah, so... And what's their argument that you shouldn't talk about, that you should only talk about

what happened on October 7th and not the two years since? So here's... Not that anyone needs by very, very unsolicited political advice, seriously, but the way that I would look at it, I actually didn't see, I mean, I think the right-wing Democrats and the right-wing, right-winger's, they just don't want to any part, like, nothing

would have been good enough from Mom Donnie, and there's no version of this statement that would have been acceptable to them. I also, like, I didn't think the statement was that bad. I would have just used the first paragraph on 10-7 and then used all the rest of it on 10-8, because I think it's perfectly reasonable on 10-7. to focus on the attack on the Israelis. And then 10-8, go all in on the slaughter of civilians in Gaza. 10-7 and 10-8 are different days. 10-7 is a day that Israeli civilians in many cases were attacked.

10-8 is the day that this disgusting awful war began. And I would just separate it into two. But once again, I'm aware nobody needs that political advice from me. But that's kind of how I was looking at it. Yeah, and it also shows where we are in our politics that this is infuriating so many people because there are, so it's not just the 1,100 thing that people picked up on. But there are a lot of other things that I don't think anybody expects a public figure like Montaigne to take the kind of maximalist position.

But there are a lot of concessions embedded in this statement as well. Yes. He refers to the hostages still held. Right. And, you know, the people still held were military. So people would say, well, those are prisoners. Like when you, if you're captured in battle, you're a prisoner, not a hostage, or you're at least a captive. Like, what else would be complained about here?

I'm sure that people don't love that you referred to it as a war crime in the first sentence. Well, there were definitely war crimes carried out. But right. But even saying it's a war. Right. You know, right, exactly. You could say that war crimes were included in this, in the. active resistance right um so yes like right there are there are significant concessions

um being made in here that's that's that's a good point there on that one too he's in a i mean yeah he's in a very very very tough spot there's no question about it um in new york is what i mean the the concentration of the jewish population in new york is what like higher than it is it is it the highest outside of israel of any major city so i think it's second to tell Aviv. Yeah. But like huge numbers of those, if not a majority, voted for Mamdani. Right. Yeah. I mean, this is that I've seen a bunch of people pull out polls saying like New York Jews don't support Mamdani, but it's a pretty significant portion actually. Yeah, under 40. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Absolutely.

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