Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 11/16/23: Israel Underwhelms With Hospital Raid, Israel Ethnic Cleansing Debate, Biden And Xi Meet, Israel Support Plummets In US, DNC Ceasefire Protest Erupts, CNN Broadcasts IDF Lies, Nikki Claims Vivek Attacks Are Sexist, Candace Responds To Shapiro Attack, And Krystal Clashes With Dean Phillips On Israel

Episode Date: November 16, 2023

Krystal and Saagar discuss Israel's underwhelming evidence after raiding Al-Shifa hospital, Krystal and Saagar debate if Israel is doing an ethnic cleansing, Biden and Xi meet, Israel support plummets, DNC protest erupts over ceasefire, CNN broadcasts IDF lies, Nikki Haley says Vivek attacks are sexist, Candace responds to Ben Shapiros attacks, and Krystal clashes with presidential candidate Dean Phillips on Israel.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.supercast.com/   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade the studio, add staff, give you guys the best independent coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that. Let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody. It is Thursday. We have a great show for everyone today. What do we have, Crystal? Indeed, we do. Lots to get to. Okay, we've got the results of that raid on Al-Shifa Hospital, what the Israeli military is presenting, somewhat underwhelming thus far, but we will get into all of that. We also had a big meeting happening in California between Biden and Xi Jinping. The results from that also very interesting. We'll break that down for you. We've got new polling

showing public support for Israel's war on Gaza plummeting as the number of people calling for a ceasefire in both parties is extraordinarily high. This comes as there was a real scene outside of the DNC headquarters last night. Jewish Voices for Peace and other protesters gathered there trying to block the entrances in what was originally a peaceful protest. Cops showed up and it went off the rails. A lot of competing claims about what happened. We will show you the video evidence of what actually unfolded. We also have been compiling these for a while, some of the most stunning misinformation to come out of this conflict. I'm sure you guys have seen some of this already, so we will break that down for you. Fact from fiction. Also got to get into

Nikki Haley and some of the wild things she's wanting to do, getting some pushback on her desire to, I guess, dox everyone online. So we'll talk about that. We've also got new shots fired between Candace Owens and Ben Shapiro over Israel and their different views on the situation. And also, first time on the show, excited to talk to presidential candidate in the Democratic primary, Congressman Dean Phillips. Yes, we'll see how that goes. Before we get to that, though, we have some merry news. Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. We are excited to debut our holiday merchandise. So for all of our premium subscribers, this is going to be a limited edition holiday merchandise

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So let us know if you guys like it. Like we said, we've got these available to the premium subscribers only. And then the Black Friday discount as well, which, again, will be available to you in your Supercast email. So with that, let's get to the show. And if you want to get great discounts like these, sign up and become a premium member. You can also become a premium member. All right. Let's get into some serious news here, the very latest coming out of

Israel. So of course, al-Shifa hospital, you know, which has been sheltering thousands of people, has been under siege for quite a while. They're running low on medical supplies, food, water, et cetera. You had, you know, a brand out of electricity, all of those horrifying images of premature babies who had to be taken out of incubators because the incubators could no longer function. So Israel was saying, this is where there is a huge command center for Hamas. Yesterday, they released what they said was the evidence that they have found so far

in what they described as the undeniable truth in this initial video. Let's take a look at what they presented. And what we have found, I think, is only the tip of the iceberg. Let me show you a few examples. Security cameras have been obstructed. All of the security cameras are covered, and this isn't the only one. You'll see the rest of them here.

Follow me as we go in, and we will see the MRI center and see the weapons that Hamas has hidden inside. We're now, as you can see, in an MRI room. I don't know when this was used the last time. I don't know when it was used the last time, but it is definitely an MRI machine. And if you follow me behind the MRI machine, I'll show you what our troops exposed just minutes ago. In military terms, this is a grab bag, grab and go of a Hamas combatant. And if you zoom in and we get some light over here, what you will be able to see is military equipment.

And when our troops opened this closet here, which is in the main part of the clinic, this is what they found. These weapons have absolutely no business being inside a hospital. Before we go on, let's have a look at what we found inside the very same cabinet that houses medical equipment. You can see all kinds of standard military medical stuff. We found another go-to bag, this bag here. And again, we opened it up in order to make sure that it's safe to touch and show.

So please don't give me any of that. You opened it up and you placed it there. This is the bag that we found. And this is the stuff that was in. Now, there's insignia, military insignia, a knife. For those of you who read Arabic, you'll be able to understand what it says here. But it's Hamas, the military wing, Qatayib al-Qassam, of course, a vest with equipment, and as always, an AK-47.

Okay, so in addition, they released a few photographs. Let's put those up on the screen as well. These were shared by Eric Toller. He's the one who does the visual investigations at the New York Times. His commentary is noteworthy. He says the IDF just released their first photos and videos from the Shifa hospital after last night's raid. I count 10 guns. The IDF has claimed that the beating heart of Hamas's operations is beneath Shifa. Presumably, they will release more photos and videos. Couldn't go ahead and put the next one up on the screen. You see some firearms arranged on a table alongside what appears to be a large box of dates. Very important that no one have access to those dates. Those could be very dangerous, Sagar.

Well, bad dates. I keep making the Indiana Jones joke. Eventually somebody will laugh at it. Other than you. Other than you. All right. So this is so far what they've presented to us. And I think it's important that we remember the way that they pitched why

this operation was so necessary. Because remember, typically hospitals are totally off limits in war. It requires extraordinary circumstances to justify even this raid, let alone, you know, the sniper fire inside of the hospital, et cetera. So go ahead and put this up on the screen. This was the original computer animation that they presented weeks ago to start to build the case for why they had to go in. You see this elaborate tunnel network. It sort of looks like Dr. Evil's lair or something like that. They were really selling this as this is the beating heart of Hamas HQ. Put this next piece up on the screen here. This is how our own John Kirby, National Security Council spokesperson, said the day before this raid

in order to effectively justify the raid on the hospital. He said, now in the hospitals, I can confirm for you that we have information, meaning the U.S., that Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad used some hospitals in the Gaza Strip, including al-Shifa, had tunnels underneath them to conceal and to support their military operations and to hold hostages. Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad members operate a command and control node from al-Shifa in Gaza City. They have stored weapons there and they are prepared to respond to an Israeli military operation against that facility.

And he went on to clarify that information related specifically to al-Shifa. So, Sagar, in advance, we were told command and control node. We were told elaborate underground tunnel network and bunkers. We were told Hamas would be there ready to respond. Expectations of some big firefight within the hospital that did not unfold and even expectations that there would be potentially some hostages being held there. So far, all we've got is a few guns that they claim they found while investigating. Yeah, let's go and put this up there on the screen. Barak Ravid reporting from Israeli

sources. Quote, a senior Israeli official now says that the purpose of the IDF operation wasn't to rescue hostages, but to locate and expose a Hamas tunnels hub that connects the hospital with other parts of the Gaza Strip. And so this is where things are starting to get into dicey territory for Israel. Because, let's go and put this up there on the screen, as you said, they previously had said that the entrance is a symbol that there is no place we will not reach. And now they have to walk back and say, we did not think that we would find hostages, but we will now definitely locate and dismantle Hamas capabilities. The target in al-Shifa is the tunnels that are underneath the hospital. So as of right now, they haven't released any footage yet of the hospitals.

And this is going to be a difficult situation if Israel is not able to produce more evidence because their level of intelligence that they presented to the world with that animation was that they knew the exact, I mean, you all just saw it. We just showed it to you about where each bunker was. One of the reasons why they may even have knowledge of the bunker system is because the Israelis actually built one of those bunkers in the 1980s. And they alleged that it had been expanded on by Hamas post-1983 onward into expanding their tunnel network. One of the other reasons also is that much of the bombing campaign has been – if you overlay where the majority of the airstrikes are with past maps that the Israelis have revealed about where the tunnel network is, you can see they're almost exactly one-to-one. The problem is, is if they're not able to prove the existence of the most, you know, the command node, the center of this tunnel network, it's going to call into question

almost every piece of intelligence that they have presented now since. There also appears to now be a bit of a walkback from the White House. Let's put this up there. After John Kirby had said that, you know, we'd have intelligence that says that there was some sort of command center inside of the hospital, or at least he said a Hamas presence, I believe is what he said. Now he says, quote, we didn't give an okay. He said a command node. There you go, command node. We didn't give an okay for the Israeli operation in al-Shifa hospital. Kirby added that the U.S. does not expect Israel to update it in advance about military operations in Gaza. So a bizarre bit of a walk back tunnel with a massive tunnel with a ton of video conferencing equipment and bomb stockpiles and all the other things that you would expect in some sort of so-called terrorist headquarters, then it's not a good look. I guess we could just put it that way.

Yeah. I mean, even if you accept that they found these guns in their search, which given what we know about previous Israeli propaganda is a real open question, let's just say, even if you accept that, this was not what was sold in terms of what this hospital represented to Hamas. And Ryan Grimm pointing out online that there are many American householders that have a larger arsenal than what was presented in these photographs. Something like the top 15% of American gun owners have more than the 10 guns that were presented in these pictures. So again, listen,

extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And a few weapons caches that you claim you found when you were going through the MRI room, et cetera, does not even come close to justifying this assault on this hospital. So I'll give you their side of the story. This is from the New York Times this morning. We don't have an element for this because this just came up. Their write-up, they say, a day after the Israeli military took control of Gaza's largest hospital, soldiers on Thursday afternoon were still combing the site that Israel had said

concealed a secret Hamas base, but had yet to present much evidence supporting that claim to the public. An Israeli military spokesman said that the search of the hospital grounds would take time because, quote, Hamas knew we were coming and had made off with or hidden traces of their presence there. Now, again, Sagar, as you're pointing out, that is also at odds with the presentation of how deep their intelligence knowledge of al-Shifa hospital was. They had sent photographs to news outlets claiming they pinpointed exactly the entrances to the Hamas tunnels. They knew exactly where to go. That doesn't exactly square up with now we're, you know, two days in and still saying, well, we haven't really found it yet. We're still looking now.

Listen, they very well probably did know. Yeah. I mean, they obviously they very well may present additional evidence and we will evaluate that as it comes in. But so far, pretty lackluster display of what they allegedly found when they raided the hospital. One of the reasons I actually believe the arms and all that is that there would be no reason to present such a paltry amount that you would have. Well, that's what I mean, though, is you there would be no reason to present such a paltry amount that you would have without actually- Well, I gotta show something. Well, that's what I mean, though, is you at least just scrounge up. I mean, it's also not unbelievable to have those types of arms and all that because obviously there was battles inside of the hospital. At the very least, we know there was at least firefight coming in. It's not difficult to believe. There wasn't firefighting inside the hospital. It was outside before they came in.

You could at least believe, though, that Hamas clearly had a presence inside of the hospital. It was outside. It was outside. You could at least believe, though, that Hamas clearly had a presence, you know, inside the hospital. I don't think that's outside the realm of possibility at all. The claim they made is as a command center. And so that's why I'm like, well, OK, I will. I actually want to say one thing, though. I will. We should all note this. The death toll from when they actually stormed the hospital was very low. And this highlights something that I have been trying to say here now for a long time. One of the problems with the Israeli tactics on all of this is that when you have boots on the ground, you can discern whether one person is a civilian and one person is not. You can't do that whenever you're dropping a bomb in one of the most crowded areas in the world. And so this, I actually think, vindicates ground operations, specifically in this scenario where you have a huge civilian population.

You have to be able to separate them from the militants. Again, I've been doing a lot of reading about the way that the U.S. operated all throughout Afghanistan and Iraq. And around 2012 and 2013, American special operations became so good. Again, you actually saw it in the bin Laden raid. You can go into a house which is full of like 50 or 60 women and children. You're only going to kill the four people who are military age with guns in their hand. And then the people who tried to shoot back at you and keep everybody else safe. That is the exact reason Obama didn't drop a bomb on the compound.

For exactly to avoid any of the scenario where we're like, well, we'll never know. And then, you know, you blow up the evidence. This is one of those where they went in and they killed him. And this, I actually think, again, validates why, yes, you're going to take probably more casualties and more. But we didn't see a great massacre at the hospital. And that is, you know, in terms of their rate at the very least. That's what you would want if you are Israel. Now, the bigger problem is that if they can't come up with the goods, is if you are going to go to the extraordinary lengths,

now not only taking the hospital, but sending all these guys in, and the bombing campaign that preceded the encircling of all of that, and the tanks, and the death that surrounds that, and then you can't come up with evidence, that's going to be very, very, very problematic for them in the eyes of the world. Absolutely, as it should be, because for weeks now, they've been building this case as like, this is the center of what we're aiming towards. I mean, all of the ground operations surrounding Gaza City, it was like, this is the

granddaddy of the operation. We're trying to get to al-Shifa Hospital. And so, you know, first of all, it seems like it may have been unnecessary to completely bomb and destroy all of Gaza City. Harat's out with an op-ed this morning talking about how Gaza City is basically completely uninhabitable right now already because of the widespread nature of the bombing campaign and the extent of the destruction just, you know, indiscriminate across the entire city. But we know why. Well, there's a few reasons why they took this approach. One of them is that they don't want any casualties on their side. They really want to completely minimize any risk. And if that means killing more Palestinians and destroying more of Gaza City, then that's what they're going to do. But I also think, very telling, that piece we put

up earlier, which we can actually put back up on the screen, A6, where you have this Hebrew language news outlet that spoke with a senior Israeli official who admitted, like, no, the reason we're going to al-Shifa is because it's a symbol that there is no place we will not reach. I think that is so telling as to the real goals of this operation based on the military tactics from the beginning. I saw another report, Sagar, saying like, again, it was kind of like cope after not really actually finding any Hamas militants there, after there not being a firefight inside the hospital, which was something that even John Kirby had previewed, like, oh, we think that they're ready to respond militarily from inside the hospital. That didn't happen.

Finding no hostages there, et cetera. It was, well, we expected that Hamas had already moved to the south. We expected that they were already gone from here. It's like, well, why didn't you say that beforehand, number one? And number two, you've been telling everybody to go to the south, and now you're saying, okay, well, I guess if you're really your goal is really to eradicate Hamas, which I would argue that is not their goal.

Their goal is, you know, to to just have indiscriminate destruction, as a as the IDF spokesperson himself said. Then, you know, why have you sent everybody to the south and claim that they're going to be safe if this is the next phase of the operation? I don't know. I mean, listen, we can't put ourselves in the head. We can only read like what they're doing. I would say, I actually, I'm not really sure, Crystal, that the goal is just necessarily indiscriminate. I would say that they're basically just willing to pull the trigger in a scenario where the vast majority of Western militaries would not do so. As in, you know, the bar for action with the United States. I mean, you can even actually compare the U.S. I remember I covered this at the time, the Kunduz Hospital.

This was a big deal, if you'll recall. It was 2015. There was a big, the city of Kunduz was retaken by the Taliban. The U.S. special operations and Afghans got into a crazy firefight with the Taliban. And a Doctors Without Borders hospital actually in Kunduz was bombed. And there was a massive outcry. The U.S. did a full investigation. Initially, there were claims that there were Taliban fighters inside of the hospital.

That was the justification. And Barack Obama had to publicly issue an apology to Doctors Without Borders. Now, I'm just, again, just comparing. Like, look at the way that the U.S. fought war versus now the Israelis. And I think they're very much, you know, learning this exact same problematic lessons I talked about with this Ryan. They're in their 2003 shock and awe phase where basically it's like free fire. You can do what you want and overwhelming firepower and all of that. But they're going to learn real quick.

This possible could be a lesson for them. And they'll probably eventually get to the point where we were, although the irony is that we already did that. You could already read and see all of the lessons for that if you want. But you mentioned the new Southern campaign that could be opening up, so why don't we move on to that? Yeah, I would just say that you can judge by the actions. You can also judge by their words. IDF spokesperson Daniel Higari said the emphasis is on damage, not accuracy. And I think that is very clear in the campaign that they have been waging here. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder.

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So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is and they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the GOAT. Like he's a legend. So he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family? It means a lot to me. Just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like, that's what's really important and that's what stands out,

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Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Let's go ahead and move on to the next piece. Let's put this up on the screen of what is set to unfold. You are having people receive flyers now in the south of Gaza. Israeli army dropping flyers instructing Khan Yunus residents now to evacuate to known shelters, citing Hamas presence in the area. Thousands of displaced Palestinians,

of course, sought shelter in Khan Yunis in southern Gaza after Israel told them to evacuate the north. So they have, you know, already basically completely destroyed Gaza City. They blew up the parliament building there as well. There was some pretty dramatic footage of that as well. And now they're dropping flyers in the south. Now, the south has never been immune from this bombing campaign, by the way. It has been more intense and more aggressive and more widespread in the north, but the south has not been spared whatsoever. So what this seems to indicate, Sagar, is that they're moving on to southern Gaza and that the scale of attacks and scale of the bombing campaign in southern Gaza is likely to ramp up.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well, is that they are. And look, remember, the Khan Yunis area is one that they've also claimed has also been one with a massive tunnel network. We have some maps, actually. We can put this up there on the screen, which is quite useful. It's from the Financial Times. They always do an excellent job. For those who are watching, you can see that the blue areas show an Israeli ground operation and the overall Israeli incursion. So you can see that the city of Gaza, Gaza City, is entirely surrounded. The Khan Yunis area, let's go and put the next one up

there, please, on the screen, because this shows you where the next phase of the fight could come, has had hundreds of targets that have actually been hit by Israeli airstrikes. And the problem is that it's also below the demarcation zone of where they had told people to flee. And if they're going to tell people to flee from Khan Yunis, it basically leaves around two something million people to squeeze in that tiny area between the Rafah crossing and between the overall southern area. And that's obviously going to be incredibly difficult logistically.

And that really could open up a new phase, I think, of the overall operation is if they decide to go into this, if they continue with the same level of bombing, but also if they continue with the same ground operation. I still have a lot of questions around what they are actually doing. So the number of IDF KIA is officially around 52. And, you know, that level of casualties is not genuinely consistent with clearing tunnels, with firefights, and with any of that. And so it really does raise the question around, like, what are the genuine military objectives that are being accomplished by these guys who are, like, on the ground, what's actually happening. And I actually think this hospital, Crystal, could be a big turning point because it could push the US, I think, over the edge or the international community.

If the level, if there is an intelligence failure, again, this is a big if, we still don't know what the major evidence and all of that is. But if it is a big intelligence failure, it could then lead to a rug pull for the Western support at this point, which is already shaky at best in terms of how the US and the overall rest of the West is approaching this conflict. Put A8 up on the screen, guys, because this was a first. There was the US actually allowed. They didn't veto it. They just abstained. They allowed the U.N. Security Council to pass a resolution calling for pauses in the fighting in Gaza. That's different than a ceasefire. But as Barack Ravid points out here, this is the first time the U.N. Security Council

adopts any resolution on the war. And I mean, to me, in terms of what their goals are here, to me, it's not a mystery based on the statements of Israeli officials, based on the one I just told you about from the IDF spokesperson, based on the plans that were leaked strategically from an official Israeli government ministry that said, no, our ideal situation is we push everybody, displace everyone from the north. Then we push everybody out of the south and we basically force Egypt and other Arab nations to take in this Palestinian population. This is something that members of the Netanyahu coalition have wanted for quite some time and have been openly advocating for really for years. So it shouldn't be any surprise that this is the goal, that the goal is complete ethnic cleansing of the Gaza Strip. And there were reports about how pressure is being put on Egypt to use their considerable debt load to try to pressure them into this. There were also reports that there's pressure being put on the U.S.

to take in Palestinian refugees as well. But, you know, to me, it's very clear what the goal is. The only question is whether they'll really be able to accomplish this goal. But I just think it's important to keep in mind where we already are in this conflict, which is for Gaza City was incredibly densely populated. You know, this is where the majority of the population of Gaza lived and it's gone. I mean, 45 percent of all homes within all of the Gaza Strip, not just in Gaza City, have already been damaged or destroyed. The people who, the millions who have been displaced from their homes, like there's nothing for them to go back to in Gaza City. That's already where we are. So, you know, are they degrading Hamas capabilities? I don't know.

We haven't really seen much evidence of that. Well, people are at their house. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, we haven't seen much evidence of like really going directly and targeting the military infrastructure. And then there's also the question that Elon Musk asked and that the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff asked as well, which is how many new Hamas members are you creating with these actions, which is part of the lesson we should have taken from our actions in responding to 9-11. So for me, it's not really a mystery what their goals are, what their approach is. You can see it in what they're telling, you know, their own population, what they're saying publicly and the military actions that are unfolding on the ground. Well, I mean, I look, is that the goal of the Israeli far right? Yeah. Is it the overall

goal of the Israeli military? I don't know. Like I said, I think— Well, I mean, the Israeli military is just doing what they are told. Well, the quote you read I actually think was quite accurate, is that they are going for damage, not accuracy. But that's kind of what I'm saying, is that they're basically willing to pull the trigger on a 15%, 20% chance. That's just not something the way most Western militaries would act. That's a different thing, though, than a targeted, like, we're going to blow as much civilians up as possible. I don't really think that's what

they're doing. I think it's more in terms of they just don't care as much about collateral damage. But there is a good, there's an important difference between those two things. But at what point do we go beyond, quote unquote, collateral damage when somewhere around 90% of the deaths are civilian? At what point does, you know, listen, people can lie about their intent, but the numbers don't lie. 40% of the deaths are children. So at what point do you say like, this isn't collateral damage. This is part of the goal of the operation as evidenced by what has unfolded thus far. Well, that's what I'm saying though, is that they just don't care about that number and they would care and point to the one figure.

I'm not justifying this. I'm only saying that the intent matters and what it all looks like it eventually is. So I don't think- I don't know that the intent does matter at a certain point when you have this level of civilian death and targeting of civilian infrastructure. The intent matters in terms of whether they're gonna,

what the goal is and how they're, what they're willing to, so let's say that their red line was ethnic cleansing. They're like, this is our full-blown goal. That's not what you would do. You would do something different. Now, it can be a secondary goal. It could be one of those things that it would be nice. It would fulfill some political objective. But the way you would conduct that is what they did between Azerbaijan and Armenia. That's what an actual full-blown ethnic cleansing was going to look like. They laid out exactly what the goal was,

and they have, like, the phase-by-phase process. First, move people out of the north. Then put pressure on the south. But this is a secret plan. We don't know if it's going to exist. That's exactly what has unfolded thus far. And then you put off the table any other solutions. So, for example, the U.S., which, you know off the table any other solutions. So for example,

the U.S., which, you know, there's a lot of problems with this idea too. It's like, hey, let's have the Palestinian Authority run the, you know, Gaza Strip afterwards. No, that's not going to work for us, which is no surprise because number one, I mean, I think Palestinian Authority probably isn't up to the task. But number two, they don't want unity between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. And then when you couple what's already unfolding in Gaza with what's being done in the West Bank with settlers being turned loose and basically running wild, massacring Palestinians there as well and pushing them off their land too, it's very hard for me not to look at the facts as they're unfolding and say, yeah, this is the goal.

This is the plan that is unfolding. This is what they're pushing towards. And the only question is whether anyone's going to stand in their way. Well, I think you think that because you have a very, look, I think that you're coming at it from a place of zero trust from Israel. I wouldn't say I have zero. Let's call it, I don't know. I have a neutral trust of both Hamas and of Israel. I'm not willing to assume the worst of really anyone except for the Hamas terrorists, but specifically not the PA. So ethnic cleansing or genocide is one where you have an explicit aim of wiping out this entire race or pushing them out of the region. Now, is that existing in a document, which we covered here on the show? Yes, absolutely. Is that the official plan? I don't know. There are all kinds of secret plans inside the Pentagon.

There were plans inside the Pentagon to break Iraq into three parts. There was actually very seriously considered at one point pushed by Vice President Joe Biden. Does that mean it was the actual plan of the U.S. government? Not really. I actually don't think there is a plan. I think there are disparate elements within the Israeli government, some of whom want ethnic cleansing, some of whom have no problem with collateral damage, some of whom are probably much more Western-aligned and are ashamed of the way that the entire operation goes. And this is like what the consensus view is.

So that seems to me like it's much more like of a cluster rather than any explicit aim. Now, that doesn't justify what all of the deaths are, but it comes to how are we going to, as the United States, international community, Israel, all of this, what does this all end up look like? I think it probably ends whenever the international community just rug pulls its support. There will be no final determination on Hamas. There will just be a high death toll. There will be now a huge squabble over internal security, indefinite, and all of that. And I think it's more, in my opinion, it's more terrifying that there isn't a plan, that there isn't a consensus plan. So I don't think that there is a plan.

You're right. I don't trust Israel. But actually, in this, I'm taking them at their word. When you have security minister, security cabinet member and minister Avi Dichter of the Likud party, Netanyahu's party, announcing the plan for residents of Gaza is Gaza Nakba 2023. That's how it'll end. When you have Bezalel Smotrich calling for the, quote, voluntary migration of Gaza Arabs to the countries of the world. When you have Netanyahu himself comparing Palestinians to the biblical foe of the Jewish people, Amalek, who they are called to destroy, including women and children. I'm taking them at their word of what they actually want to do here and as evidenced by their actions thus far, which are entirely consistent with pushing the population out of Gaza entirely. Now, again, does that mean they will succeed? Not necessarily. It depends on whether the U.S. decides that we are going to, you know, accept this quote-unquote final solution, and I do use those words very intentionally of the population in the Gaza Strip or whether we are going to step in and use the considerable leverage that we have. But I'm just looking at their actual statements and their actions on the

ground. Yeah, I agree, Crystal. But, you know, the person you read is a freaking agricultural. That's like saying Tom Vilsack's opinion on Israel matters. He's a member of the security cabinet. Yes. But I mean, technically, Tom Vilsack is a member of the U.S. cabinet. Well, do you want to take the president of Israel saying there are no innocent civilians? Yes, that's much more important. You want to take Netanyahu himself, again, comparing them to Amalek, the historical foe of the Jewish people, and, you know, calling for them to be completely wiped out, including women, children, and infants. So I agree. I think that the president of Israel, who, by the way, is the head of state and actually has no power, but that's a secondary thing. It's still important for the head of state

for what the statements and all that. His statements, Netanyahu's statements, and the security minister or the defense minister's statements are the single most, and we would recognize that in the US system. Now, none of them have said anything like that. That said, that doesn't mean it's not problematic and that there isn't any real internal policing going on. So I'm just saying, I think we should all be super reluctant to just throw these terms out there. You can have terrible net effects, but actual intent matters a lot in terms of how things are going to end up. And I think people are probably reading this as like covering for the Israelis.

Again, the effect matters the most to the families and the people who are dead. That's actually what matters the most. However, from an international relations and geopolitics perspective, what their intent is and how we can actually shape the situation to our benefit and not what their real aims are, that matters in terms of how we lessen the security implications on us and also what they want, what their future is. Netanyahu is not going to be there forever. So if that was the explicit aim, is that the official aim of the entire Israeli security

cabinet? Is that the aim of what the general consensus is of the Israeli population? I genuinely would say no. And so I think part of the issue is that you have a lot of disparate coalitions inside Israel right now. They had to have no, most of them don't even know what they want. Even the hostage thing. I mean, hostages really remains like the single uniting thing, probably within Israeli society. Well, I would say then it's like, well, you know, what actions are actually being taken to release the hostages? I always find that a bit odd in terms of the discourse, because it's like some things are very incongruent with releasing hostages or not, ceasefire deals, diplomacy, et cetera. When that falls apart, now what?

So I think we're in the worst situation. I think it's very much like Iraq. There were a lot of different people who wanted to invade Iraq for various different reasons, democracy promotion, security, all kinds of other non-profits on cases. And what ended up happening is that because there was no real overall security aim with that, the day after it became a cluster And what ended up happening is that because there was no real overall security aim with that, the day after it became a cluster and we ended up staying there for 20 years. I think very likely that's the same scenario that's going to happen for Israel. But that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the overall intent. That doesn't also mean that it's not horrible to be Palestinian and to live in Gaza right now. So even if you want to say that it's unclear what the intent is at this point, it's too late.

By the time it's already happened and you say like, oh, I guess they really did want to do the ethnic cleansing that they've been telling us all this time that they wanted to do, then it's too late. That's why it's important to look at the words and the actions that are being taken now. And again, Sagar, you already have about 2 million people who are displaced in Gaza. Yes, but at least they're alive. That's my, I mean, I'm happy they're alive. And I'm 90% roughly civilian casualty toll. You already have Palestinians being aggressively pushed off of their land in the West Bank, aid and abetted by the IDF. So, you know, I think part of this is thinking clearly about what has this government said in the past they want to do? What are the plans that they have, you know, strategically leaked to the public? What are their comments now? And what are the actions that we see

unless we want to, you know, look back and say, whoops, we aided and abetted an ethnic cleansing, didn't really mean to, thought they intended something different. I guess it's too late now. Yeah, look, I mean, I think that the dangers of it being an ethnic cleansing are very real. I think it's very possible also within the current security cabinet. But for now, 2 million of them are alive. We have a chance, I think, in order to try and draw the operation to a close, have some sort of security thing, which the Israelis can accept, and then get the hostages out and actually move to a situation where these people can, at the very least, return to where they were from and with the international support and hopefully Israel paying the bill, not America, they can

actually stay and then possibly we can all move forward. Now, that's what I would like to see. Whether the Israelis want to see that, I don't think so. Whether Hamas actually wants that either, it's not like this hasn't been a very beneficial situation to them. I think that's very much true. The Arab world and the international community, I think that we're actually near, we're much nearer to a deciding point away from the current situation than we were before. And I actually, I think that that could be, could be a beneficial direction that we would move in, especially with whatever happens with this hospital. That's really what I think.

One in 200, at least, residents of Gaza, Palestinians in Gaza, have already been killed. And I don't know if we're still doing, like, the 9-11 math situation. No, we need to put a total and complete shutdown on 9-11 math. I don't have any idea how many 9-11s that equates to. But I just want people to sit and think what that would mean. One in 200 residents of the Gaza Strip have already been killed. That's where we're at in this operation right now. So I think that would be, on my back of the napkin math, is a couple hundred thousand Americans, but I'm not 100% sure.

Again, though, I am calling for a shutdown on all 9-11 math. On my calculator, I'll have it here. I'm. People will be super annoyed with me, but whatever. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her and it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Helling Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try.

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My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, because I bring him on tour with me and he's getting older now too. So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is and they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the GOAT. Like he's a legend. So he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family? It means a lot to me. Just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like that's what's really important.

And that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy. Or my family in general. Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them.

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and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Xi Jinping. We had a big meeting, arguably, as I said, the most important meeting in the world. We didn't have any crazy developments, but they met for over four hours face to face with his extraordinary always to have any president and the premier of China sit down for that long period of time. Let's take a listen to a little bit of what was said inside of the meeting. I value our conversation because I think it's paramount that you and I understand each other clearly, leader to leader, with no misconceptions or miscommunication. We have to ensure that competition does not veer into conflict.

And we also have to manage it responsibly, that competition. That's what the United States wants and what we intend to do. China-U.S. relationship has never been smooth sailing over the past 50 years and more, and it always faces problems of one kind or another. Yet it has kept moving forward amid twists and turns. So what you heard a little bit there was like the pleasantries that are involved. Obviously, Xi doesn't like the press, so he didn't answer any questions. There were no press conferences or any of that. But the public statements from him and the readouts are some things that we can parse about what was said within the meeting. Let's go and put this up there on the screen. The Chinese are obsessed with the concept of mutual respect. And when they say that

word, what they mean is that whatever we say goes, and then whatever you say, well, it may go, it may not go. But the idea is, is that all things should be discussed on a footing in which each person's viewpoint is considered valid, and by that they mostly mean their own. What happened in this meeting was very important. President Xi Jinping of China told, quote, that it was unrealistic for either of the two largest economic and military superpowers to expect to, quote, remodel the other as both countries tried in their own way to halt the downward spiral in their relationship. He also took pains to emphasize, quote, that planet Earth is big enough for two superpowers. I think the use of the word superpower and Earth were also

very intentional in terms of what they said. The Chinese came in with this with a single goal, Crystal, and that was to ensure that continued decoupling policy, which is effectively bipartisan now at this point, does not proceed. The Chinese economy is suffering dearly. Something that you should take note of is that sitting right next to President Biden was Secretary Janet Yellen, who is as big of a China economic dove as exists within the U.S. cabinet. And in fact, there were explicit decisions made in terms of the seating chart and all of that to make sure that President Biden had his most China-friendly aides around him that the Chinese also wanted to dictate for who that they were talking to. The important point that they were trying to do is that they're trying to throw America a bone on something that they really, really wanted. We wanted to restore our military to military communications for deconfliction purposes in the South China Sea. That's important, actually.

Support that, yeah. I 100% support that. And the reason why is that they were suspended after the balloon. What they also wanted was to make sure that we understood that they could turn up the economic pain on us if they wanted to in the middle of an election year. But also, they want us to stop putting the economic pain on them. Almost all of it comes back to Xi Jinping and his grasp on power. Apparently, there was a comment made, who knows how far you can take this to the bank. China said they didn't address Taiwan exactly, but just said that they wouldn't expect any military action, quote, in the coming years. Overall, the meeting itself probably went well in that there were no major falling apart episodes.

There wasn't a repeat of the 2021 meeting where Jake Sullivan met with his counterpart in Alaska and basically got screamed at on camera for four hours, which probably marked a real nadir, I guess, for the relationship. So interestingly, I think, from America's point of view, what Biden wanted going into the meeting is he basically wanted to telegraph to Xi. He's like, don't make my life harder. I've got Ukraine and I've got Israel. Just please, you don't be a problem for me. And Xi very much wants to use that to his advantage. And he's like, OK, but then I'm going to need to see you guys play ball with me a little bit here. This is all in the context of the overall APEC meeting with other Asian leaders who are inside of San Francisco. We talked about all the domestic stuff too on Tuesday. The cleanup. The cleanup. San Francisco cleanup. Where he admitted it. He

admitted it on camera. That's a whole other thing. I guess I appreciate the candor. Yes, yeah, exactly. We appreciate honesty on this show. Yeah, I mean, there's a few things that are interesting to me. First of all, it's important to remember that, you know, basically there was such a massive fallout over that whole balloon situation. There was, wasn't Blinken that was supposed to travel to China? Yeah, he canceled his trip. He canceled his trip. And so since then, things have been on a bit of a downward spiral. So that's part of why this meeting takes on extra importance. The last time the tube met was a year ago.

It was on the sidelines of the G20 in Bali. There was the stated goal of that meeting was to try to create a, quote, floor under the relationship. That didn't go all that well. This one seems to have gone much better. They also agreed. China agreed to crack down on the flow of chemicals used to make fentanyl to Mexican cartels. So that was the additional. But, Sagar, do you read into this that there's been kind of a pivot on China's part because of

the economic stress that they're under right now? It's hard to say. China is probably in the best position that's ever been in its relationship with the United States in terms of power. And what a reason I mean by that is that I just laid it out. I mean, to me, this is the most important. The reason we put the second, I know it's boring and I apologize, is this is the most important meeting in the world. But the way that the Biden administration and most people in Washington think, they think Ukraine is the front line of democracy. And they think that Israel is like the great, most important thing that should dominate all of our politics. It should dominate all of our politics. It should dominate all of our military aid and all that. It's like, what if I told you that neither Israel or Ukraine

is even close to the top 20 in our trading partners in the world? China is literally number two, especially if you consider Canada and Mexico. When you really think about how singularly important the relationship is there and then the fate of the Asia Pacific, to me, it's crazy that they want to look at China as a sideshow. So China is in a very, here's the thing too, if you're coming in to a meeting, if you know President Biden and Jake Sullivan are obsessed with Ukraine, what are you going to sit there and talk about all day? Maybe we'll give Russia weapons, maybe we won't. And it's like, yeah, but as long as you're talking about that, you're not talking about our 301 tariffs on steel. We're not talking about Taiwan. We're not talking about Japan, South Korea, countries that actually produce things which are important for us.

This is the problem, my overall problem with the Biden administration's foreign policy is they are, it's like they are living in a 2003 world in how they conduct their overall foreign policy or even think about the economy, mostly because Biden is old, and they refuse to wake up to 50% of the world GDP is sitting in San Francisco right now with the APEC conference when you include China. And yet, it's a sideshow to everything that else is happening. So for China, they really want to use that in order to make sure that they can drive down any of the bipartisan movement on tariffs here in Washington. I actually think they're going to be successful. I would expect that there is going to be some tariff relief in 2024 because the Biden people are

under such pressure to deliver a better economy. And of course, what's the easiest thing? You give up on the tariffs, which is laughable when you really consider it because that's just short-term reduction in price at the overall expense of American manufacturing. So anyway, that's my overall read of the situation. Yeah, I think that makes sense. All right, let's get to the polling. New poll from Reuters just came out, and it shows pretty rapidly collapsing support for Israel's war on Gaza. We've got the comparison of where these numbers were previously and where they are now. So previously,

you had 41% who said that the U.S. should back Israel in that Reuters Ipsos poll that was conducted October 12th through 13th. In this latest poll, it drops to 32%. At the same time, the percent that says we should just be a neutral mediator has increased from 27% to 39%. And Sagar, if you look at this poll further, they also asked about the popularity of a ceasefire. You have overwhelming support for a ceasefire. 68% of respondents said they agreed with the statement that Israel should call a ceasefire and try to negotiate. And that includes about three quarters of Democrats and even half of Republicans support a ceasefire, according to this poll. Yeah, it was pretty interesting how much this cuts against, I would say, the overall bipartisan

consensus at the elite level. The most important one, I actually thought, was about the neutral arbiter, about how there's been rising support for wanting the U.S. to play a more neutral role in the conflict. And that actually is one, a point that Glenn Greenwald has been consistently making here is like, we have all whipped ourselves into an post 9-11 type hysteria about a conflict in a foreign country. Listen, I like Israel. I like Israel as much as I like any other foreign country, which is nice to visit. It's not particularly special for me. It is for some people, but that's the problem is that they, a lot of people are not being honest in the way and the emotional attachment that they're talking about the conflict. Tucker actually made this point

in his segment with Candace Owens. We'll definitely cover some of his comments on that. But the dispassionate view that I think that many Americans want the government to feel is an annoyance with the level of discourse and obsession that we find ourselves in an American political system kind of locked into the conflict as if it's something that is – it's just like Ukraine. Like at the end of the day, this doesn't matter. It actually does not matter at all to the vast majority of Americans, to the way that we live our lives. You can have a moral angle and that's fine. But at a baseline level, it's not actually all that important for us. And that's something that I think Americans are starting to feel in the level of not only military support, the 14 billion, but really the, I mean, you saw it at the ceasefire, whatever the rally was called,

the no ceasefire rally, where you had all of the politicians kind of join hands and link up together. And it's very rare that you see that level of bipartisanship in Washington. I think that's what Americans are responding to in the poll. Well, I think also what they're responding to is obviously there was overwhelming, understandable, justified sympathy and horror at what happened on October 7th. But all that we've seen since then is horrific images of kids being pulled from rubble and babies dying and, you know, just horrible scenes you can't even imagine. So it makes a lot of sense that as you see that unfolding and you understand your government's involvement and complicity in those images, that the very basic normie reaction is just stop the carnage. Just stop the carnage. So it is remarkable. I mean, this is one of these areas where there is such a distance

between D.C. elected officials and what the public actually wants and actually supports. As I said, even a majority of Republicans are in favor of a ceasefire. There isn't a single Republican member of Congress who is in favor of a ceasefire. And among Democrats, the sentiment is overwhelming. This one says three quarters, another poll says 80% of Democrats in support of a ceasefire and very precious few in the House and only one in the Senate who actually take that position. So it does show you a dramatic disconnect here, especially with the aggressive nature of the comments from Joe Biden against a ceasefire, the comments from the White House podium that, you know, those calling for a ceasefire are repugnant, et cetera, when this is actually the view of

the American people. The other piece in this poll saga that was interesting is only 31% of poll respondents say they support sending Israel weapons, less than a third. And that's actually lower numbers than when they asked about Ukraine, where it was in the 40s. So, you know, as much as public opinion in favor of sending Ukraine weapons has fallen off, support for sending Israel weapons right now is just 31%. Again, dramatic departure from what elite consensus and opinion here is in Washington, D.C. And you're starting to see some political fallout. This caught my eye from Rolling Stone.

You know, the Biden campaign, they made a big show of like courting these influencers and they have them at these different watch parties and they try to include them because they're trying to win over the youths, etc. Put this up on the screen from Rolling Stone. A number of those influencers who were behind Biden in 2020 are turning on him now. There's a variety of issues they talk about here, but the most consistent one is over this war. They talked to this guy, George Lee Jr. He's got 2.4 million followers as the conscious Lee on TikTok. He was invited to that State of the Union watch party at the White House. But he is very critical of Biden on his Israel policy and enabling Israel's

war on Gaza. So he said to the Rolling Stone, quote, when we start talking about the lesser of two evils, a lot of my followers, all three million of them are literally asking the question like, damn, so the lesser of the two evils is the one that's supporting genocide? Noted. Noted. How I talk to my followers about it is like, and excuse my language, I'm going to cuss. Goddamn, Biden, your weak ass is going to rally the entire of America to be against right wing governments. Meanwhile, you are being unrelentless, unconditional and giving support to a right wing government. That's funny. They talked to another creator who is very focused on environmental issues,

is really disappointed over the Willow Project and is looking at supporting Marianne Williamson. It's just an emblem of what a massive issue Biden has with a variety of constituent groups, but with young people in particular and over this issue in particular. And Sagar, you know, their theory is like, they'll get over it when it comes down to it. And it's me versus Trump. They hate Trump more. They're going to

show back up. They did last time. Last time they were a little unsure. And then in the end, they came around and they supported. I don't know if it's going to work out that way this time. I don't know. I think they'll all vote for him. I do. Well, the other question is, though, do they just stay home? There are going to be other options on the ballot. Do they vote for Cornel West? Do they just, you know, decide not to engage in electoral politics whatsoever? Is Cornel even on the ballot? That's the big question.

We'll see. I think a lot of these people, I'm already beginning to see it. I just saw the other day a Washington Post had an article that was like, Trump rhetoric reminds of Hitler. And I was like, oh, my God. Is it 2015 again? Like, that's how it's starting to feel for me. I think these people are pretty predictable. You can whip them up. Sure. You know, they'll say this about, but at the end of the day, like if they think Trump, if you think Trump is literally Hitler, which a lot of them do, then they're probably going to vote for Biden.

I think you're underestimating what a searing event this is for a lot of young people in the same way that the Iraq war was a searing event for a generation. I think it is at that level of like absolute horror that our government could be involved in such a thing, horror that such a thing was even on the table and whether or not you agree with that perspective. I think it goes a lot deeper than just like a flash in the pan concern of the moment. And you see that by, you know, the widespread protests across the country. You see it by the energy on social media. I, you know, it's hard to quantify these things, but it is my sense that this, this cuts a little deeper than some of the other things. It's not a flash in the pan. This

is genuinely like this generation's Iraq war moment. I don't know. I mean, it just seems crazy to me. Once again, I mean, you're not Palestinian. And it's like, you know, in America, we were involved in the Iraq War. Our soldiers are the ones who are dying. Like the idea to me that you're going to get all that spun up about at the end of the day, which is the conflict, which has no effect on you literally whatsoever. It just seems kind of nuts to me. But the other thing is the general generation divide. We can put this up there on the screen.

We have 48 percent. This was a poll taken on October 11th, so take that for what it is. Yes, so things will probably shift. But 48 percent millennial and Gen Z support for Israel, 40 percent saying do nothing and or unsure, 12 percent criticize Israel. We could probably surmise that that has moved a little bit, but that still did show a majority of millennial and Gen Z people who were supporting Israel. If you dig into the crosstabs for most of the polls, I mean, you mostly see like a 50-50 split. Now, 50-50 is very different than Gen X, Baby Boomer, and Silent Generation. Don't get me wrong. It's probably also even if you disaggregated Gen Z from millennial, but I don't think it's the same level. I mean, it just seems a little bit silly for people who are supposed—I don't know.

For me, it's like it can't be Iraq war when it's not your own citizens who are the ones who are the ones doing the fighting and the dying. But it is our— Then it's a foreign conflict. But it is our taxpayer dollars that are sending the bombs that are being used to kill Palestinians. Sure, but we killed more people in Yemen with our taxpayer dollars. Yeah, and that's absolutely true. And that conflict was dramatically undercover. I mean, something we covered here as well. But the horror of these images that are

coming out, the understanding that we are, you know, not just enabling, but directly complicit in it, the belligerent stance taken by the Biden White House. I mean, you may not have those feelings. It may not resonate with you. But it's very clear that for a lot of people, the sense that we are participating in an ethnic cleansing and a genocide, it's a pretty searing political moment. And so I think that the Biden White House assumption that people are just going to move on and they're not going to care about this in a little while and it's no big deal and the poll numbers are bounced back up. I don't see it.

Maybe. Again, I mean, it's not my job to convince them to vote for Biden or not. I probably want the other way. So my whole thing with it would be I just don't want to overstate whenever at the end of the day we're not talking about something

which is not directly impactful in the way that Iraq was. Now, tensions may be high now, but as you said, like, are they really going to be there a year from now? It's possible that we could have a ceasefire, you know, some sort of hostage release in the interim. People say all kinds of things. So will they really forget that? The most reliable thing that we've seen so far with Democratic voters is abortion and the Trump boogeyman. Both are going to be on the table. I find it very difficult to believe that they're not going to come out and vote against Trump, especially, I mean, if you consider it too, like if you are a person who cares so much about these issues, it's not like Trump is going to be all that different. So then

you're going to get what, 10% of what you want with Biden or as opposed to 0% of what you want. Then it's come, and I'm not advocating for this. I'm just saying most people at the end of the day, when they come to the ballot box, that's mostly how they vote. That said, I think you might be right in terms of not a national movement, but you only need one or two people to stay or one or 2% of people to stay home in the entire election changes, especially in Michigan. So if I were the Biden campaign, to me, it's not a young people problem. I think you've got a Michigan problem more than anything else. Of course, though, young people could swing the ballot in Georgia and Arizona or any of these other places, too. I could see that. Yeah. I mean, it only, as you said, it's very likely to be a really close election. It doesn't take that much, you know, of people

just staying home or deciding they're going to vote for one of the third party candidates or something else for it to totally change the direction of this election. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day. begging for help with unsolved murders.

Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never got any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip-hop. It's Black Music Month, and We Need to Talk is tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives. My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? My favorite line on there was, My son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, because I bring him on tour with me and he's getting older now too. So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is.

And they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the GOAT. Like he's a legend. So he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family? It means a lot to me. Just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like that's what's really important and that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy.

Or my family in general. Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Speaking of some of the energy and the, you know, really mass protest movement that we've seen across the United States, you had protesters with Jewish Voices for Peace and a number of other activist groups who led a protest outside of the DNC headquarters here in D.C. while there was a DCCC fundraiser going on. And let me show you how this protest started so you can see what they were up to. And then we'll show you what happened once the cops arrived.

Go ahead with the first one. Bombs fall on hospitals, but you don't hear the calls. Because APAC is a view, does it weigh on you at all? Which side? Which side are you on? Which side are you on? So you can see they're in front of the entrances to the DNC. They're singing. There's candlelight vigil. That's what's going on. And then the police show up and this is the scene. Take a look. Oh, shit. Someone just got thrown. People getting thrown down the stairs.

So you can see police coming pretty hot, throwing people down the stairs. You can see someone kind of getting run over there with a bike. They pepper sprayed protesters later. And it's important to keep in mind this is all on video. This is what the videos reveal because there are competing claims being made at this point. In particular, from Democratic congressman and AIPAC funding recipient Brad Sherman put this up on the screen. He said claimed that protesters were trying to break into the event. He says was just evacuated from the DNC after pro-terrorist, anti-Israel protesters grew violent, pepper-spraying

police officers and attempting to break into the building. Thankful to the police officers who stopped them and for helping me and my colleagues get out safely. He goes on to say, that these protesters must want Republicans to win. That's the real reason that they're there. Dave Weigel, who is a reporter for The Washington Post, happened to be at this protest and was recording a lot of video to document what actually unfolded there. And I think you have his analysis of what actually went down. That's right. So semaphore now. So remember after he was unceremoniously treated at The Washington Post.

How could I forget? Hashtag Felicia Samnez. That's a whole other news cycle. Part of what I wish we were covering. Anyway, so he says that overall what he saw is a firsthand account that there are a lot of inaccurate tweets about protesters, quote, storming the building or trying to break in based upon what he saw. He says that Sherman is wrong. I was outside the building. I saw a U.S. Capitol Police officer spray protesters with pepper spray, not vice versa. It's around one minute mark in a video that he has posted.

There are, quote, lots of cameras there. I just took a few videos because people tend to lie about these things. That's kind of what is the big dispute right now this morning in Washington, were they trying to storm in or not? And I actually do think it matters because if you're trying to storm into a building, that actually justifies there's a different level of force as opposed to blocking an entrance. And so what he claims is that the protest was illegal civil disobedience. That's true. It wasn't a legal demonstration. The protesters had legal observers on the site. Organizers were telling people where to move if they didn't want to be arrested. But people, including the congressman who claimed that the protester tried to break in, were not being truthful. The false claim that he has seen

so far is that cops showed up, quote, in riot gear. That's actually not true. They showed up in those vests, as you could see. And you and I were discussing this before, which I think is the most important context. These are a bunch of U.S. Capitol Police officers, not the U.S. – sorry, the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department or the Secret Service, who have to deal with protests all the time. These, in fact, with how many Jewish protests we've had around this city in the last three months, or sorry, in the last three weeks? Dozens. You see any video coming out like this outside of the White House or outside anywhere else?

You know why? Because they don't do that. So I think what I think happened is that you had a lot of Capitol Police officers who are getting real finger happy with the pepper spray and others post-January 6th, and they don't want to have any accusation that they didn't do anything. They also have very little experience in how to actually de-escalate a protest and all of that, and they decided to do this. So this is just another—I also find it ironic that there's a lot of people

who probably wanted more Capitol Police funding and all that. It's like, well, here's what you bought. It's a bunch of incompetent cops, as we all found out on January 6th itself. Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. I think they're probably freaked out after January 6th. But yeah, this, you know, the videos speak for themselves. You can see what the protesters were doing. You may disagree with their purpose. You may disagree with them being in front of the DNC headquarters. But they were not violent. There is zero evidence they were pepper spraying cops. So there you go. There you go. All right, let's get to the misinformation block. So we've been working all week to compile just some of the most

egregious examples of misinformation that have been spread during this war. Let's go ahead and start where we should with CNN that went on one of these, you know, pre-approved IDF ride-alongs. This was in advance of building the case for raiding the al-Shifa hospital. This is at a different hospital where they were trying to show how this was being used by Hamas militants to hold hostages, et cetera.

There was one part in particular that caught people's attention. Let's take a look at what CNN had to say. This is a guarding list. Every terrorist has his own shift. In this room, he says, a guard list that begins October 7th ends November 3rd, not long before the hospital was evacuated. So a guard list. And, you know,

they alleged this was a list of the people who were there checking in to record that they were watching the hostages during this time. Except put put this up on the screen, people who actually speak and read Arabic revealed that this quote-unquote evidence that it says of Hamas using Rantisi Hospital for military purposes, including an alleged list of operative shift holding hostages, is actually just a calendar of days in the week in Arabic. So a bit of an obvious one there. Pretty big mistake. This is, I just don't understand how they can just immediately post this stuff. And one of the things is with the idea,

I mean, everybody always, many people may not realize this, 20% of Israel is Arab. They speak Arabic. If you've ever been to Jerusalem, when I was in Jerusalem, I don't speak a damn word of Hebrew. I ordered my food in Arabic

because many of the people there speak both languages. So presumably, and one of the things the IDF says all the time, is they have people embedded with them who do speak Arabic, including Arab-Israeli soldiers who are in the IDF. So this is one of those where how do you put this out to the world? That's number one. But two is CNN. You think people from CNN don't speak Arabic? So nobody at CNN speaks Arabic. Nobody in all of CNN.

They couldn't just do a quick check on this one before you put it on air? Come on. Come on. I mean, we have higher editorial standards than that. For real. Really, we really do. Yes, we make sure because there is so much of this stuff floating around. We make sure we check it as best we possibly can before we put anything on air.

And so remember the context here of these ride-alongs, too, that we possibly can before we put anything on air. And so remember the context here of these ride-alongs too that we talked about before. This is the IDF brings you along. You have to vet your footage with them of everything before you put it out to the public. So it's very constrained. It's a very cramped view. Only certain journalists, quote unquote, get to go along on these things. So you would think in that context of knowing that you're basically being used for war propaganda, that you would be extra careful about what you brought to air, but nope, not so much. Got another one for you. This was a video that was making the rounds that purportedly showed a nurse inside of Al-Shifa

making some extraordinary claims. Let's take a look at this one. So she's saying that, you know, Hamas, they're stealing the medicine. She's very afraid. Well, it comes out that people at the hospital say they've never seen this lady before. They have no idea who she is and she doesn't work there. Yeah, that's a bit of a little bit of a problem. Although, as you pointed out, and this is a great example, put this one up there on the screen. Then people who were trying to dox her were saying, look,

this is so-and-so, the Israeli TV actress and digital content creator. That's actually not her. And so there are constant information wars that are online where they're doxing someone who they claim to have been the actress. It's actually not the actress, if it was even an actress. And then you have the person there who says, oh, well, everybody, nobody in the hospital has even seen this person before. Same thing with the CNN report. You have multiple layers of editorial screw-ups where they broadcast something, which is obviously false to anybody who speaks Arabic. And I think people just should appreciate how difficult it is. And, you know, it does vindicate a lot of what we do here, where,

you know, the amount of time that we spend being like, okay, is this 100%? Is it even 80%? 80% is not high enough whenever you're reporting something that is straight up false or not. And you have, you know, extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. And that's the biggest problem I think that we have seen in so much of this that keeps happening. Here's another example. Let's put this one up there on the screen. You can see here, there is a photo which was going viral, which showed a woman in a bombed out house that was on a staircase. And it says, waiting through the rubble to get all that is left to remind her of her child. Hashtag Gaza Holocaust. And as a person who points out, what a tragedy, except that is a photo from

Homs in Syria that was bombed by the Assad regime. And that is not even the first time, Crystal, that I've seen mistaken photos from the Syrian tragedy, especially because people look so similar, that have then been used in terms of Gaza. So people have got to remember that everything that you're seeing is meant to influence you in some way. That's one of the things we highlighted from day one. If something's in English, it's to target you. If it's in Arabic, it's to speak to the people who speak Arabic. If it's in Hebrew, it's the people who speak Hebrew. And there are overlapping sometimes interests in that, but there are also wildly diverging ones. And we are all finding that out in real time.

I thought Ukraine was bad, but this may actually be. This is worse. I think it's probably 10 times worse. I don't think there's any doubt that it's worse because in Ukraine, you at least have some journalists able to operate. Yes, good point. The only, I mean, the number of journalists, I think it's 48 journalists who have been killed in Gaza. So the number of journalists you even have remaining in the Gaza Strip is very limited. And the only international journalists who were allowed in are like on the IDF ride-along, you know, showing whatever it is that the Israeli military, from a propaganda perspective, wants to put out.

So that's why it's incredibly, incredibly difficult and why there is so, so much lies and so much propaganda. To your point about the English language thing, you know, it was very noteworthy. Part of Israel's PR campaign around their storming of Shifa hospital was that they, oh, we brought medical supplies and we brought baby food. And they took this picture of these boxes in giant English letters stamped medical supplies as part of this effort. Now, doctors on the ground told some people that they didn't actually get any of those medical supplies. I don't know if it's true or not. So I'm going to say, I don't know. But you can see the way that these things are also staged to try to impact an international audience, i.e. us. This is, let me put this last

one that we have for you up on the screen. This is just a sampling. There were many examples we should have shown you. Yeah, this is a crazy one. This is Netanyahu's spokesperson. So this is not some rando on Twitter, but he says, the Palestinians are fooling the international media and public opinion. Don't fall for it. See for yourselves how they fake injuries and evacuate, quote unquote,

injured civilians all in front of the cameras. Pallywood gets busted again. Pallywood refers to this ongoing conspiracy that actually the horrific shots that you're seeing of Palestinians who are being killed and maimed and pilled out of the rubble, etc., are not actually real, that these are crisis actors, etc. That video that he shows there that he purports to reveal the truth about Pollywood, it's the backstage of a short film called The Reality, was shot in Lebanon by Lebanese actors in support of the population of Gaza back in 2022. And it's already in previous conflicts

been used for misinformation as well. But this was, yes, this was actors. Nobody has been using this to claim these are images of Palestinians. And there's other examples of the so-called Pollywood theory, which is, you know, an attempt to minimize the civilian death on the ground and pretend like it's not really happening. Yeah. I mean, this Pollywood thing is just totally ridiculous. And there are many examples which we couldn't necessarily confirm 100%, but that one is the best example because it's literally a film that was then repurposed and that was put out there. And this is where I just want to say, caution, caution, caution. We've seen video game footage that's been passed off. We've seen now, you know, the Syrian thing. I've even seen images from Afghanistan that have somehow, and it's very clear when you look at it,

you're like, hey, you know, that's Afghanistan, right? That's not what Gaza looks like. So many falsehoods, things that are put out there. We have to check. It's a responsibility to put every single thing that they put out there as to whether it's real or not. And then also to caveat properly because that was actually my biggest problem with the CNN report is anytime you and I put up something from the IDF, we're like, this is from the IDF. We don't know if it's true. This is what they say. You have to caveat and show things properly. It's completely fine to play government information as long as you contextualize it properly. But you can't say that we've independently verified something or imply that and put it on your air. That's where it, I think,

becomes most irresponsible. And this is also the danger of Twitter and citizen journalism and all that. I'm pro-citizen journalism. I am against censorship. I don't think any of these people should be censored or any of that. I just, though, because I weighed in this ecosystem, and I guess have for a while, ever since the beginning of ISIS,

is I'm just used to the idea of like, yeah, it could be totally false. And you gotta wait a little while. You never know whether something is real or not. Yeah, well, we're in the midst of finding out if the Al-Shifa command node, Dr. Evil layer underneath was also misinformation. So we'll see. We'll see. And we'll vet that evidence as best we can. Yes, exactly. It will be properly vetted. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone,

I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case,

bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for.

If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Helen Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip hop. It's Black Music Month and we need to talk is tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives. My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, because I bring him on tour with me

and he's getting older now too. So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is and they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's the goat like he's a legend so he gets it what does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family it means a lot to me just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good like that's what's really important and that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better so the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy, or my family in general. Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide,

listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.

Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated.

I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Okay, let's go to Nikki Haley. And speaking of what censorship and anonymity

and citizen journalism and so much more, Nikki Haley, surprising absolutely no one, but also having a very mask-off moment in which she advocates for no anonymity online and to kill all Sudan, Sudan, NIMAS accounts. Let's take a listen. When I get into office, the first thing we have to do, social media accounts, social media companies, they have to show America their algorithms. Let us see why they're pushing what they're pushing. The second thing is every person on social media should be verified by their name.

That's first of all, it's a national security threat. When you do that, all of a sudden people have to stand by what they say and it gets rid of the Russian bots, the Iranian bots and the Chinese bots. And then you're going to get some civility when people know their name is next to what they say. Accountability. And they know their pastor and their family member is going to see it. It's going to help our kids and it's going to help our country. It's going to help our kids and it's going to help our country to have no pseudonymity online. Pseudonymity online is one of the most important values actually that the internet ever promised us. It is really what, you know, led to anonymous. It led to so many of, it led to so many like whistleblowers and other revelations

that have come out. But at a baseline, like more important level, the ability to shit post about the government is one of the most important ones that goes back to the founding fathers, from the Federalist Papers, from Tom, to Thomas Paine, to so much more. We demand and must have the right to anonymously criticize anyone. And I'm very much in favor of that. Others are like, oh, it's cowardly and all of that. Yeah, sometimes, sometimes it is. That said, the principle of it itself is so important that it is almost directly intertwined with free speech. So to have somebody then who wants to be president of the United States say something, which is dramatically really Orwellian when you think about it, and it

goes against the way that the internet should work, is outrageous. Now, we're not the first people to say that now at this point, but it fits within a pattern and a worldview that she directly advocates for, which is the supremacy of the American government to the point where it triumphs individual liberty, but also where it triumphs sovereignty of other nations. It fits neatly with the neocon worldview. Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's an authoritarian instinct. That's really what it is. I think Orwellian is also well said, but it's like she argues that we need this in the interest of civility and decorum. We need to trample on like the basic rights of American citizens to dissent just in the interest of like keeping things a little nicer, a little tidier. And that's the

kind of rationalization that leads to just like overt police state type actions. So glad to see that even some of her Republican competitors, Sagar, were not having this one. Yeah, it was nice. It was nice. That said, it was really just Vivek Ramaswamy who came out calling her out. Then Ron DeSantis and everybody decided to pile on. Once they saw it was safe. That said, it was really just Vivek Ramaswamy who came out calling her out. Then Ron DeSantis and everybody decided to pile on. Once they saw it was safe. Exactly. Once it became safe. The thing is, though, is that Haley is now doubling down on this victimhood mindset and others.

Probably why she's against anonymity is because she saw like one tweet. This was Siwon Head's joke that actually criticized her. And here she is on the Ruthless podcast where she says that Vivek only attacked her because she's a woman. Let's take a listen. He comes out of the gate. He hits the female chair of the party. He hits the female anchor on the platform. And then he hits me. And I'm not saying anything. I ain't saying I'm just saying. But he might have a girl problem. I'm just saying he might have a girl problem. He might have

a girl problem. So when she says the female wing of the party, she means the RNC chairwoman. So are you not supposed to criticize the RNC chairwoman because she's a woman? And then you're not also supposed to criticize two women in a row, even though you're running against one. And he didn't say anything sexist. I watched it all live. It was a criticism of her ability to do the job. And this is just- And by the way, he clarified with us. He was talking about her and Rhonda Sanders too, by the way. That's right. Even on the heels. Yeah. Heels isn't even, it was gender neutral. That's right. In terms of its, it's her.

It's like a military here. So what are we doing here? I don't know. I mean, I, look, the Nikki thing for me is a real Rorschach test. It's like you either find her more, and I'm talking more for people on the right, because it's all this pearl clutching over attacking Nikki Haley and other. And I'm like, you know what? For me, it's simple.

It's like you either hate Nikki or you hate someone like Vivek. Now, is Vivek a little bit ambitious? Is he a little bit, what, try hard, I guess, is the right word? Yeah, sure. That said, I'm gonna take it every goddamn day over somebody like Nikki Haley.

I think you can leave space for people who don't like both of them. Yeah, but you're not, you know, you don't have to choose between. I'm saying as somebody who's like, I guess somewhat involved in this, I'm just like, Nikki to me, like she represents the enemy in every possible like aspect of that word, everything that in the party, even in America, really that needs to go and to die a death. And so when I watched Vivek give it to her, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it a lot. And it was just

interesting though, to me to see how much of the pearl clutching that occurred around like, oh, we can't attack her. Oh, her daughter. Oh, as if her daughter is not an important point when we're talking about TikTok. It's like they want to use all of the things that they criticize the left for to then defend themselves whenever they're in the in the actual critics chair. That's what bothers me. Well, she can call him scum. Exactly. Thank you. Yeah.

But he can't raise an entirely legitimate point about potential hypocrisy given that now she postures as all anti-TikTok, but her own daughter is on TikTok. That's a good point. That's not going after your daughter. That's making a point about you and whether you actually mean anything that you're saying. So that is beyond the pale, but her calling you scum, just complete ad hominem attack. I think that's very anti-Indian of her. That's what I think.

Yeah, that's right. That's what I think. That's a good point. She's a self-hating Indian. That's what I think, Sagar, based on those comments. There's something to that. I'm not going to really poke the bear about how us in the Indian community feel about her. The other thing, though, is these people love their identity politics when it suits them, don't they?

When it's convenient. When it's convenient. And she's always been one. Remember in her opening speech, it was all bio. It was all about her being like a trailblazer. She may not have used that word, but it was, you know, very like gendered, her opening speech. And then she'd throw in a line of like, of course, we're against identity politics, but also I'm a woman and look at my heels and I'm not kicking sideways or forwards or whatever the hell she said. And I mean, you also see it very much in the debate over Israel

and suddenly the, you know, the concern about anti-Semitism when, of course, there were a million like anti-Semitic incidents that they didn't care about before. But now when it comes to Israel, suddenly it's all of the safety language and all of the like identity language that had been used by the most annoying college kids on the left suddenly is being used here as well. And Nikki is chief among those in that category too. So yeah, when it soothes them, they love to trot on identity politics just as much as the Democrats. Yeah, and then, you know, someone made a good point, which is as objectionable as this all should be, you know, it's really only people who are online who should care. This is why Nikki Haley is a terrible actual nominee for the

Republican Party, because here's what she said just yesterday when she was asked about the retirement age. Let's take a listen. Are you on board with cutting entitlements in a big and meaningful way? Social security goes bankrupt in 10 years. Medicare goes bankrupt in eight. Anyone that says they're not going to take on entitlement reform means they're going to go in and be president and leave the country bankrupt. You can't do that. Yes, we have to do entitlement reform, but that doesn't mean you touch anyone that's in the system. We should keep our promises. America should always keep our promises. But for everybody coming into the system, like my kids in their 20s, you change it. You say we're going to raise the retirement age to reflect life expectancy. We're no longer going to do cost of living increases. We're going to do increases based

on inflation. We're going to limit the benefits on the wealthy and we're going to expand Medicare Advantage plans so that we have more competition. We have to start looking at a common sense way to do it without hurting people. But our kids know they're not going to get it. Yeah. So that is a better example of why she's so unelectable as opposed as to, you know, despite all of the comments and other from her team. It's just she's the worst as as far as it runs the gamut for Republican politicians. So anyway, I'm at very least glad to see that people are recognizing how awful it is with those anonymity comments. We could have told you that all,

though long, long before she opened her mouth. I have an alternate theory about where the idea came from because everything with Nikki Haley is calibrated for like, what is a room full of billionaire donors gonna think? These CEOs, they're so fragile. Some, they think it's disgraceful

that some anonymous peon online can come on and criticize them. So I have no doubt when she workshopped that at some big dollar fundraiser, they all thought she was the greatest thing ever, is the most brilliant idea of all time. And then she trots it out to the American public, to everyone's absolute horror

at what she's legitimately suggesting here. I had not put that together, but you were absolutely right. It's like, just suck it up, you know, and deal with the annoying comments. You have a billion dollars. Why do you care? Or don't look at the comments. Yeah, don't look at them. You don't have to. All right, next part. Candace Owens. Oh, man, I was licking my chops, I guess, waiting for Candace's response. CounterPoints did a good job covering yesterday. Ben Shapiro

on video calling Candace's position on Israel, quote, disgraceful. Candace now appearing with Tucker Carlson on his ex-show, I guess you should say, yesterday, responding directly to Ben. Here's what she had to say. Quote, absolutely disgraceful, particularly a coworker. Seems like a pretty big step. And I really don't know the background here. What is that about? You know, there isn't much of a background. I saw the video when everybody else saw it when I woke up. No one warned you about it? Nobody warned me about it. It looks like maybe he didn't know he was being recorded. It looks like it was some sort of a private event. I got no clarity on the issue that he was particularly speaking on. And in what was said, I also, I can't respond to

it beyond what he's saying because it's just ad hominem attacks. I don't know. Yeah, because it's not, you know, we disagree or I, you know, I, I don't think she's correct or maybe she doesn't know what you're talking about. It's absolutely disgraceful. Yeah, exactly. And so I can't respond to it on a level of intellect because there, there's nothing that he has expressed in that, at least in that short clip that he fundamentally disagrees with in terms of what I said, but I will say that I'm not going to respond with the same ad hominem text. I don't think it helps further discussion. And if that was me that was caught on a video saying that about colleagues

that I work with, I would be embarrassed. So I think that the video speaks more to Ben's character than it speaks to mine. Has he texted you to apologize or explain or anything? No. What tends to happen is, of course, we all have elements of selfishness within us. And so when it particularly pertains to an issue that impacts you, I was strongly speaking out against Black Lives Matter as an organization very early on as a conservative, because I understood what the implications were going to be of defunding the police. It was an issue that was important to me. I created an entire documentary to talk about this issue. And I held on for a long time and people began to see that actually I was telling the truth. And now we have more death in inner city communities than we had before. These riots and these George Floyd

protests calling for defunding of the police. And I think in terms of this, that's what's also happened is that people that are pro-Israel are pro-Israel, a lot of them because they have family members in Israel, they have homes in Israel. And so they feel very attached to this issue. And I was very happy to host somebody who was pro-Israel. He's a pro-Israel comedian on my show the other day. And I explained this to him. I said, you know, you are demanding that we have this same response that you are having about what people are saying on college campuses. The rhetoric on college campuses hasn't changed. Did you not remember what they were saying? What professors were saying? The anti-white explicit racism that

was happening and not even just allowed in terms of student protests, but was written into the curriculum. So I actually think that was very illuminating. She called out Ben also on Twitter. Actually, well, I guess it depends. Who do you think struck first? I'm going to say Ben struck first. Candace then responded where she put out, I think it was a quote from scripture, where she talked about like blessed be the peacekeepers because that's really, she's had a different view of all this. Let's put that up there on the screen. That was her initial response that came after the video that came out. She says, you cannot serve both God and money. No one can serve two masters.

Either you will hate the one and love the other or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. Now let's put the response, please, up there on the screen. Ben Shapiro then last night, shortly before the Tucker Carlson clip debuted, says, Candace, if you feel that taking money from the daily wire somehow comes between you and God, by all means quit. And then, let's put this up there, she went ahead and responded. And she says, you are utterly out of line for suggesting I cannot quote biblical scripture. The Bible is not about you. She also, Crystal, responded to Shapiro, where she said that his behavior had been unhinged and unprofessional over the last few weeks, and that the rest of the Daily Wire crew all had to grapple

with that. So I'll just put my allegiances and make them very clear. I'm team Candace here for a variety of reasons. Number one is Shapiro owns half, was a portion of the Daily Wire. You cannot trash your employee or somebody who works for you publicly and then expect to have a civil working relationship. That's an insane thing to do. If you don't want her to say that and you think it's quote unquote disgraceful, then fire her or shut up because you are the co-owner of this company and you know that you're on video. I think he knew that he was being recorded when all that happened. And then second, why are we then dragging things out onto Twitter? You know, pick up the phone, man. Have a text with something, you know, between people. You cannot be hashing out this back and forth nonsense all in public. So there's a variety of things.

This is all even post the actual view of the conflict where I'm far, far more aligned. I'm probably the most aligned with Candace of any of the Republican commentators out there than anybody else. And it's crazy that that's somehow like out of bounds or anathema over at the Daily Wire. So there's a lot of free speech hypocrisy. There's a basic like managerial issue here that I really find troubling. You know, you and I, we have people who work for us. Like, you can't treat people like that who work for you. It's crazy. So there's a variety of issues that are happening here of unprofessionalism and on the content side that I'm pretty annoyed by. Well, and Candace has said all kinds of wild and controversial things in the past. And that's fine.

That was fine. That didn't cause this. Exactly. And it's only when she criticizes Israel, which has been clearly like very personal for him. Look, I understand that in terms of his identity, although, you know, he also claims he doesn't care about identity politics. Put that one aside. But that's the line. And I think in particular, one of the things that I zeroed in on is there's all this safetyism language coming to the right around, quote, unquote, anti-Semitism. Well, what they really are objecting to is any sort of criticism of Israel,

which is not anti-Semitism. Now, I'm not saying there's no anti-Semitic rhetoric out there associated with, you know, critique of Israel. Of course there is. But where they really draw the line is any kind of critique of the state of Israel. And the reason why it comes out really clearly here is you'll recall, Sagar, Candace had this line about Hitler that was roundly condemned previously. She said, if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, okay, fine. When asked about the word nationalism, she went on to say the problem is he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalize. He wanted everybody to be German. There was apparently no issue with that comment

and the potentially anti-Semitic connotations of it. It's only when there's a criticism of Israel that the line is really drawn. And we've seen that with a lot of the, you know, just staunchly pro-Israel parts of the Republican Party. Like, it wasn't very long ago, Donald Trump was having dinner with now-avowed Nazi Kanye West. And everyone was like, well, you know, what are you going to do? There was some condemnation, there was some criticism, but it wasn't this hard line as when you actually, Trump got, I would say, with the right in more trouble for daring to criticize Netanyahu at the beginning of this conflict. That was more of a conflagration among the right than, you know, actually getting together with Nick Fuentes and Kanye West at that period in time.

That's a great point. So the critique here, the care isn't really about anti-Semitism. It's trying to stop and block any sort of critique of the state of Israel to tar anyone who has a critique of the state of Israel, of the Netanyahu government, of their policies, of the way this war is being conducted as an anti-Semite to try to push it off the table. And that, to me, becomes very clear here. Oh, absolutely. I mean, the Charlie Kirk point that she made is amazing. And the amount of hatred that he received for being like, hey, was there a stand down order? Like what's going on? And what's crazy to me is immediately afterwards, I saw even more pro-Israel fanatics being like, Candace is promoting the stand down conspiracy. I'm like,

well, first of all, it's only a conspiracy if it isn't very plausible. It's actually very plausible that something like that could have occurred. Now, I don't know what the evidence and all that is. You know why? Because there hasn't been an investigation or even a 9-11 commission or any of the October 7th commission, any of that, because Netanyahu doesn't want to get into any of that. I would love to know about the security failures that went into October 7th. But even then, why is it implausible and a conspiracy to suggest otherwise? Why is it crazy to ask an entirely legitimate question? And that's really what they're demanding. They're demanding complete fealty at the end of the day to a foreign government. And if you're Israeli, that's

completely fine. But if you're American and you're trying to get other Americans to have that same level of fealty, now we're in a whole other realm of discourse. Now we're fulfilling the tropes of dual loyalty of which they claimed were anti-Semitic. So you can't have it both ways. We get to say and ask questions and do whatever we want here in this country. You do what you want in yours. And yet they're trying to have some sort of a bridge between the two where they get to both claim anti-Semitism and then at the same time basically demand like complete validation of the Israeli government's narrative about what's going on. So anyway, as I said, I stand with Candace 100% on this. I actually think she's been a pretty good

voice for a lot of this. And it's probably mainstreaming ideas to the Daily Wire audience that they never would have heard before. So to that extent, I actually think it's important that she stay at the Daily Wire. I haven't heard everything she says. I'm not going to co-sign it, but I appreciate that there are some dissenting voices. I saw her critical of genocide on Twitter. I appreciate that too. But I do think it's worth pointing out. I believe the Tucker interview was recorded before the latest back and forth on Twitter. So, you know, she was responding just to Ben's leaked comments about her, you know, positions on Israel. So I think this saga has more chapters to unfold. Oh, absolutely. I'll enjoy it. I'll enjoy watching it. All right, guys, we've got a presidential candidate,

Dean Phillips, standing by. Let's get to it. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast hell and gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day.

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iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip-hop. It's Black Music Month and We Need To Talk is tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives.

My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now? Yeah, because I bring him on tour with me and he's getting older now too. So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is. And they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the GOAT. Like he's a legend. So he gets it. What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family? It means a lot to me. Just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like that's what's really important and that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy or my family in general.

Let's talk about the music that moves us to hear this and more on how music and culture collide. Listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution.

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Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Honored to be joined this morning by Congressman Dean Phillips. He is not only a member of the United States Congress, but also a candidate for president and also relevant to current news, ranking member of the Middle East Subcommittee on House Foreign Affairs. Great to have you, Congressman.

Great to be with you, Crystal. All right. So you got a little bit of good news for your campaign recently. Let's put this poll up on the screen in New Hampshire. Now, there's a strange situation unfolding in New Hampshire. Biden won't actually be on the ballot. So they, for once, asked a question that is useful in the state of New Hampshire, which is, OK, if Biden's not there and you got to write him in, who are you going to vote for? And you got Biden still leading at 27%, but you're in second there, 15%, Marianne Williamson at 10%. And then you've got someone else undefined at 5% and undecided at 44%. So just tell us, Congressman, a little bit about why you decided to run and what you think your path to victory is.

Well, Crystal, yeah, those are the numbers that don't lie. Politicians and spinsters and politicos love to mislead and misdirect. And the fact is, 73 percent of New Hampshire Democratic voters want somebody different than the president. And I'm not here to condemn him. I respect him. He was the only one I think that could have beaten Donald Trump in 2020. And sadly, he's probably the only moderate Democrat in the entire country who is probably going to lose to him in 2024 unless we course correct. So my campaign and I were hoping to be at 15% in about six weeks. It took two. And I think this is just a microcosm of how the entire country is feeling. And the best thing about this campaign is getting out and listening to people. Having been in Congress for five years now, I understand how quickly people in Washington completely lose touch with reality, keep fighting one another instead of fighting for Americans all over the place.

And we have a crisis at home, abroad. It's time for change. And I think those numbers reflect exactly where people are at. Congressman, I wonder if you can help solve a mystery for me, because we've all seen the polls of overwhelming majority of Democrats who say they want other choices than Biden. Many people, oftentimes the majority, saying they actually wish Biden would step aside. These are Democratic voters. And yet when you offer them actual choices, they mostly are still sticking with Joe Biden. So why do you think that that is? Well, right now, there aren't many choices. And I think part of, you know, the beautiful part of campaigning, the greatest part of democracy is that when you afford voters choices, introduce

yourself, answer their questions, stand in front of them, take the heat, take the criticism, listen to their ideas. It's amazing what can happen. You know, some of the greatest successes in political history started exactly, in fact, lower than where I am right now, far lower. And that's true of our recent political history. So when people are introduced to options, and by the way, Crystal, I've been calling on other Democrats to enter the primary because that's how we do things in America. You know, there are only four people right now, in my estimation, that will make it easier for Donald Trump to return to the White House. That's Cornel West. That's Jill Stein. That's Joe Manchin, if he runs as an independent.

And that's President Biden. Those are the only ones that literally are making it easier for Donald Trump. I wish more would enter. If American voters have choices, they will choose the best candidate position to win. And I intend that to be me. Someone had to do it. And now I'm in it to win it. And I'll make that case by listening. And I can't wait to get on the road. Congressman, you recently apologized to Bernie Sanders for doubting what he had said about the DNC rigging the primary process. What have you seen? Well, first of all, Crystal, I've been on the campaign trail now for just under three weeks. And I'm 54 years old, and I can tell everybody listening that it's never too late to learn and to understand something you may not have seen or use a new lens to view the world.

And one of them is I used to think Bernie Sanders was a sore loser when he was saying the system was rigged, that the Democratic National Committee used coronations and not competitions. And I'll tell you, after three weeks, Crystal, I can say that he's right. And my apology was literal to him and to all the people that supported Bernie, all the people that have known for some time that this duopoly, this political industrial complex, is actually making democracy harder to execute. They're suppressing voters, they're suppressing candidates, and they're suppressing debate. The three legs of the Democratic stool with a small d. And I mean it. When I say that I'm sorry, Bernie, I mean it because he was right.

And I'm on a mission to expose the truth, to shine light on the corruption, and the fact that I think both major parties right now are a significant part of the problem and why we're in this terrible crisis. All right. So let's talk a little bit about majority opinion and consensus and democracy when it comes to Israel. Let's put this new poll up on the screen from Reuters. Just came out yesterday, I believe, found that 68 percent of all respondents support a ceasefire. That includes three quarters of Democrats. Congressman, as I'm sure you know, at this point, you've had one in every 200 Palestinians in Gaza who have been killed. You've had more than 4,000

children killed in this conflict. I'm wondering if you will join 31 of your colleagues in Congress and the overwhelming majority of Americans, especially Democrats today, and call for a ceasefire. So, Crystal, let me start. I'll build a very fast arc for you and get to the question you're asking. First, which is the generational change that we need. This is an example of what happens when people doing the same things in the same way for 50 years, and I include President Biden in this, have generated the results that we see right now. War in Eastern Europe, horrifying bloodshed in the Middle East. I'm 54. I've been witnessing this my entire life. The cycle of violence, the cycle of misery, the loss of life, and it's enough.

And I believe in Israel's right to exist. And I also believe in Palestinian self-determination and their need of a country. And I intend to be the first Jewish president in American history and be the one that signs documents that finally, finally establishes a Palestinian state because I've had enough. Hamas is not Palestinians and Benjamin Netanyahu is not Israelis. And I believe if you surveyed both populations right now, they would say the same thing. So what do I want to see every single one of those hostages released, including apparently nine Americans, which I believe should be the foremost priority of both the American president and anybody in elected office here in the United States. Release the prisoners, release the hostages.

Then, yes, there should be a ceasefire. And then most importantly, Israel should unify in eliminating Hamas, ensuring that there are free and fair elections in both the West Bank and Gaza so that Palestinians can choose, and I pray that they do, choose peace. A new generation of leadership. Abu Mazen is in his 80s. The Palestinian authority is corrupt. Hamas is the enemy of both Israel and Palestinians. It's time for change. It's time for new leadership.

Same is true in Israel. I think Benjamin Netanyahu's right-wing government is culpable. I think the settlement policy is abhorrent. And the only way, the only way that Israel will be safe and secure, the only way that Palestinians will have a homeland of their own with security and opportunity, and the only way that America can come back together is if we solve this issue. So my call to action is just that. Release the hostages, end the hostilities, have a multinational peacekeeping force that creates peace in Gaza so that there can be an election and we can create change immediately. Hamas has to be eliminated, And I believe it's time for Benjamin Netanyahu to be taken out of office by Israelis in a democratic nation and end this nonsense. It is time. It is long overdue. And the same people

in the same roles are not going to get it done. I cannot stand to watch this bloodshed any longer. So, Congressman, just to clarify your position, let's put this next element up on the screen. There's a new letter from some of your colleagues in the House, again, reiterating the call for a ceasefire precisely because of the numbers that you see up here on the screen, which is the monthly average of child casualties in conflicts. You can see in Gaza, and these numbers are a little bit outdated, frankly, at this point, over 4,000 children killed in this conflict. This dwarfs, I mean, it doesn't even come close to any other modern conflict that we've seen. C, will you sign on to that letter calling for a ceasefire because of the violation of rights of children? Crystal, I just made my point really clear.

I will call for a ceasefire the minute every one of those hostages is released, period. And are you aware, Congressman, let me just let me just let me just finish, though, Crystal. You asked me the question and I will totally answer it. There should not be a ceasefire until the hostages are released at that very moment. Absolutely. And then there should be a multinational peacekeeping force that ensures that this ends immediately. You know, there was a ceasefire until October 7th. This cycle has got to stop. If you ask Palestinians in the West Bank, they may have a different story

about who exactly broke the ceasefire. But I do want to press you on the piece with the hostages because obviously hostages are very much put at risk by the indiscriminate bombing campaign that is being waged by Israel. And I'm sure you're aware of the reporting that said there was a hostage deal that was very close to coming to fruition, which was undercut and ultimately killed. And now they're trying to renegotiate it by the ground invasion by the IDF. So it seems to me that, you know, there have been actions taken on the Israeli side that have prevented the release of the hostages.

And also it's worth mentioning as well, they're holding hundreds of women and children on the Israeli side, Palestinian women and children on the Israeli side as well. Any hostages should be released. Any civilians have got to be let go. I don't care who's holding them. I believe the American president has a clear and distinct mandate to ensure particularly the Americans are released. And Crystal, I think we're saying the same thing. These hostilities have to end and they should end the minute Hamas releases the prisoners. This is not that difficult. So I don't understand why this is so complicated for people to understand. And I believe, by the way, I want to see pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli protesters here in America unite behind humanity. That's whose side I'm on.

I love Israel and I love Palestinians. And I believe this is sickening and disgusting. I cannot wait until this occurs because I can't watch the videos that I've been seeing of babies being slaughtered. You know, I cannot stand, blood is red no matter whose it is. And I'm sickened, I'm disgusted. And most of all, I'm disappointed beyond belief of a generation of leaders, old generation, many of them in their 80s now, who have not solved this problem in decades. I'm a Jewish man. I love Israel. I love my Palestinian brothers and sisters. I care about humanity. I care about children. And the only way we can end this nonsense is to release the hostages and have the world

unite to ensure that Gaza is safe for everybody inside of it. And by the way, Hamas wanted the overreaction that they got. That's why I'm so disappointed right now. Terrorists want an overreaction to change the game, and they changed it, but not in the way that the world needs. The only good thing now is that we have a chance, maybe the final chance, to prevent more tragedy in the Middle East, but also, Crystal, to speak on behalf of both the Jewish and Muslim community in the United States right now that are also at great, great and grave risk. I'm

representing them because we're Americans here right now. And the only way we overcome this is exactly what you just said. I would just say, release the hostages, have a ceasefire, have a peacekeeping force, have an election, and then the entire world must unite. By the way, the Chinese, the Russians, the Gulf states, the Arab nations have got to participate in this. And then when it happens, I believe we all have an obligation to ensure two things, that Israel is perpetually safe and secure, and that Palestinians have the infrastructure, the education system, and the resources necessary to build an economy and provide safety and security themselves. There will be Jews living in Palestine, and there will be Palestinians living in Israel as they do right now. By the way, the Palestinians living in Israel have more rights than any single Muslim in the entire Middle East has in most cases. But they still have fewer rights than Jewish Israelis. In some cases, like I just said, two things. Crystal, let me just repeat this. Two things can be true at once. The fact of the matter is Israel affords more rights to its Muslim population,

Muslim Israelis, than any nation in the Middle East affords to their own. That is true. People need to know that. You know, Israel is a progressive nation. Benjamin Netanyahu is not Israel. Israel is keeping millions, before this war, millions of Palestinians in Gaza under a brutal blockade. They are keeping the Palestinians in the West Bank under a brutal occupation.

They have assigned second class citizenship to the Arab Israelis who are Israeli citizens. So to call that a progressive state, I have to depart from your analysis there. But I want to ask you a separate question, which is, you know, you described Putin's war on Ukraine. But Congressman, let me ask you this question. Do you believe that Israel right now is committing war crimes? I don't have any. First of all, I don't have any evidence because I'm not a war crime specialist. I'm not an attorney in that respect. What I see is horrifying.

There's no question that people are dying in an indiscriminate way. There's no question whatsoever. And by the way, and let me, let me, let me ask you a question. Cause it's a really important one. Every nation in the world should abide by the laws of the world as it relates to committing war and the atrocities being committed in the Middle East, the atrocities being committed by Russia, by nations in Africa, by so many in the world. This is a bigger issue, Crystal. It's not just there. Well, I actually want to ask you about that. I actually want to ask you about that because

you did describe Putin's war on Ukraine as genocide. You accused him of committing war crimes, and that came specifically after hearing testimony that involved his indiscriminate attacks on civilian infrastructure. And so far, we have a graphic to this regard. Israel has damaged or destroyed roughly 45% of all housing in Gaza, 117 press headquarters, 68 mosques, three churches, 221 schools, and 115 health facilities. So you were able to identify that as war crimes when it pertained to Russia. Why the reluctance here? It's not reluctance. I'm telling you right now, I'm saying it once again. What I'm seeing happen in Gaza, I believe, is both destructive to

Palestinians and I think is going to be equally destructive to Israel and Israelis if this doesn't end expeditiously and immediately. And that should happen the minute all the hostages are released. If you're Hamas and you won't release the 200 hostages in return for creating a safe environment for every citizen you ostensibly represent, we got bigger problems. I agree with what you just said, Crystal. It's abhorrent. It is worse for Israel's future by conducting the war in this fashion. There's no question. Eliminating Hamas is distinct from eliminating human beings in an indiscretionary manner. I agree. I'm trying to express my heartfelt truth that I am appalled, and I'm deeply appalled because I think this is going to hurt Israel more in the long term if this continues. That's why I want the hostages released. My job, Crystal, as a United

States congressman is to first and foremost look out for Americans. We have Americans being held hostage by a terrorist organization in Gaza that must release them, must release them. At that very moment, I will be the first to call for a ceasefire in international peacekeeping force, including Arab nations, to protect Gaza, to ensure we have free and fair elections as expeditiously as possible in both the West Bank and in Gaza. The Palestinian Authority is corrupt. Hamas is a terrorist organization. And it's also time for Benjamin Netanyahu's government to go and let Israelis choose peace. I demand that, period, in paragraph. And I think that's going further than many of my colleagues right now. And believe me, having traveled to Jerusalem twice this year, being in Riyadh and Turkey, trying so hard to push

peace in the Middle East, I will not rest now. And by the way, the reason I'm running for president is it is time for a new generation to end this nonsense, end the wars, invest in peace, invest in diplomacy. And it's not going to happen with a bunch of 80-year-olds who've been doing this for 50 years, whether that is in the West Bank or in the West Wing, period. And again, Congressman, I'll just reiterate that there was a hostage deal on the table to free many of the hostages, which was undercut on the Israeli side. I'm not saying many of them, Crystal. I'm saying all of them, all of the hostages. And by the way, if there are civilians- And how many children would need to be slaughtered before it's time to call for a ceasefire?

Crystal, what is, come on now. I'm saying that women and children held hostage by either side right now must be released. And the hostilities must end. Which I agree with. But how does it help hostages when you're bombing the very area that they're being held in? Then Crystal, then release them. That's putting hostages at risk, which is what the family members of the hostages themselves are saying in Israel. Crystal, nine Americans apparently are being held by Hamas in tunnels in Gaza. Release all the hostages, and then there must be a ceasefire. This is, I'm amazed that anybody sees it differently.

We have nine Americans being held by a terrorist organization in Gaza. I'm an elected member of Congress. They must be released along with every single hostage. And if Israel is keeping hostages that are civilians as well, they must be released, period. And then there must be a ceasefire, and then there must be a peacekeeping force, and there must then be an election. And that is exactly how we should all be looking at this. I do not want to see one more baby slaughtered in Israel and one more baby slaughtered in Gaza, period. And by the way, I don't understand how you can take one side of humanity.

If you are just pro-Palestinian right now and you have no empathy for Israelis, and if you're only pro-Israeli and you have no empathy for Palestinians, you are the problem. Which I agree with you completely, which is exactly why 80% of Democrats are calling for a ceasefire

because they want to see Palestinian lives valued as much as their Israeli brothers and sisters, which is the you know, the consensus position, not only among Democrats, but among the American public. I want to move, I do want to move on to some other issues here quickly, because I know you don't have a lot of time. So very quickly, let's, let me have you lay out, what do you see as the most significant policy differences that you have with Joe Biden? Well, let's start with this one right here, peace. Now I'm sick and tired of a nation. I's start with this one right here, peace.

I'm sick and tired of a nation. I lost my father in the Vietnam War, Crystal. I was six months old and he died a couple of days after Americans landed on the moon. And I literally think about him looking up, seeing America at its very, very best, and then looking down and seeing America at its very, very worst. You know, I've lived a life of some tragedy,

and I've lived a life of great opportunity, and I've lived on both sides at advantage. And when I think about the America that I know and love and that I think we can still become, it starts with peace. We have been a nation that I think have pursued the wrong paths. I think we have a military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us against that is destroying us from the inside.

I believe that we should now be a nation that invests much more heavily in diplomacy than we do in our military. By the way, we spend only 10% of our total military budget on diplomacy. And I tell you, this is not the 1930s. This is 2023. We are at a point now where nuclear weapons will be soon be able to be placed in backpacks and brought into any city in the world, whether it be New York, Tel Aviv, Moscow, or Beijing. And if we don't stop this nonsense and generate new leadership, both here and all around the world, we are going to end human life around the globe. So I will be a president of peace, and I will be a president of prosperity. Too many Americans are living

paycheck to paycheck. 64% live paycheck to paycheck. This is a huge difference between me and the president. 40% can't afford a $400 emergency repair. Almost one-third of total American wealth is held by the top 1%. We are not going to survive this. From the inside, we have to ensure prosperity, and to the outside, we must pursue peace. That is who I am. That is what I intend to do. And believe me, that is the biggest difference between this administration and mine. I will populate mine with conservatives, with liberals, with independents, with thinkers on both sides, because if you're going to solve problems, you cannot surround yourself only with people who see things the same way. I'm afraid President Biden has been bought into this style of leadership for 50 years.

He had eight years in the White House as a vice president. And look at these circumstances, both in Ukraine and the Middle East. That's a huge point of difference. I can go through some less important things, but equally, equally different. Cannabis legalization, 80% of the country wants it. Ohio voters just asked to do it the other day and they did so. The president does not favor it. It's absurd. Psilocybin research, 30,000 veterans have committed suicide since Iraq and Afghanistan. Another thing we should talk about. While we lost 3,000 lives there, 30,000 from suicide. Psilocybin could be a perfect example of a naturally occurring substance that helps people. But you know what? The pharma industry spends $300 million a year

lobbying Congress to protect the status quo because they can't make money on cannabis or psilocybin. And you know what? I'm the only member of Congress, Crystal, who takes no PAC money, no lobbyist money, no member money, and doesn't have a leadership PAC. It's absurd the corruption that we are allowing in Washington. That is a huge difference. I will not tolerate it any longer. I'm going to tell the difficult truths. And by the way, I'm just saying the quiet part out loud. The corruption is real. Yeah. I was just going to say, I would, I hope you'll come back and we can talk more about your economic plan because I know that's a focus of your campaign. If you don't mind, I'd love to do just a quick lightning round so people can get a sense of where you stand on a variety of issues.

So in terms of the minimum wage, what do you think it should be set at? It's $7.25 right now. It has to be at least $15. It's abhorrent that the United States of America, and it's abhorrent that this president hasn't ensured that it's gotten done in the last 50 years. And in terms of Social Security, would you keep it where it is? Would you cut benefits or would you increase them? I got two propositions on that. Another example, for 50 years, leaders have had a chance to do something. They haven't done a thing. It's going to go bankrupt in 2033. Benefits will be cut by 25 percent. Two ways to fix it. Raise the cap from $160,000 to $250,000 because right now

it's regressive. Someone making $160,000 a year, a family, is paying more of their income as a percentage than someone making $500,000 a year. It's wrong. It should be increased to $250,000. It'll extend the life of the program until about 2046. Secondly, no one's ever proposed the most simple solution. For the millions of Americans who have done well, who do not need their social security. I will create a pool that will then redistribute those who contribute to it to the lowest 10% of the socioeconomic recipients of social security, because inflation is killing people who rely on it entirely. And there are millions of Americans who would like to be philanthropic and share their success with those who need it, not return it to the treasury or to the government,

but actually to the people. And that will boost, depending on how generous people are, it could boost the income of social security recipients magnificently. Those are two solutions that I will accomplish. The PRO Act, which would establish further labor rights and hopefully expand the landscape

for collective bargaining. Is that something you're in favor of and that you'll fight for as president? Indeed, collective bargaining, unionization, I think, have made the distinction in the United States. I voted for the PRO Act twice. The only part of it I don't like is secondary strikes because that allows essentially strikes to occur against companies who are actually doing well by their employees. And as a family business that I ran for many, many years that shared a disproportionate amount of its success, one of the first profit sharing programs in documented American history in the 1940s, believe me, nothing is more important than sharing with workers.

And I am a pro-business and pro-worker Democrat. They're not mutually exclusive. They're mutually mandatory. And that is entirely my agenda to ensure the working class. We raise the foundation with income, with benefits, with health care, with child care, with pre-K education for children, and not just in cities and suburbs, but in rural America. And lastly, Congressman, where can people find out more about your campaign? Thanks for asking because my team always says you don't say it too much. Dean24.com. We are an insurgent campaign. We are on a mission to do better for this country. We are up against not just a system of corruption, but two political parties that are stifling debate, stifling participation. And my message to everybody is let's do better. It's time for

change. It's time for a new generation. I am staffed by the most extraordinary team, I think, in American political history. Got Jeff Weaver, formerly Bernie Sanders, campaign manager on our team. Got Zach Grauman, who ran Andrew Yang's campaign in 2020. And of course, Steve Schmidt, who volunteered to help set this thing up because nobody was going to do it. He's now off on his own supporting the effort, I think, in his own way. And I'll tell you what he told me. This is a great way to wrap it up. I did his podcast about on October 11th. I was so furious that our Democratic Party in Washington was not saying the quiet part out loud. I was on his podcast. He called me the next day and said, Dean, in 2020, Joe Biden was the only person who could defeat Donald Trump.

So we set up the Lincoln Project. The president called me right after the election and said, thank you. He only won by 40,000 votes in a handful of states. He called me and he said, in 2024, you are the only one that can defeat Donald Trump. And if you want to jump in, I'm going to help you get there. And that's where we're at. We are a team of rivals. We have progressives, moderates. I want to invite everybody. My slogan is everyone's invited.

So I would invite you to visit dean24.com, join the Dean team, help us organize, help us mobilize because the Democratic Party is doing everything it can to prevent you from voting for me, to prevent other candidates from entering, and to prevent debate at a time we need it more than ever. The future is bright. We're going to get there, but we need people to help. And I would love nothing more. Well, Congressman, I want to thank you both for the spirit and debate today. But most importantly, you know, I think the answer to a sort of ailing democracy is more democracy. I think it takes courage to throw your hat in the ring. I'm sure, you know, the probably luncheons with your colleagues are a little frosty maybe at this point, or maybe privately they're celebrating what you're up to.

I guess you can. I'll tell you. You can imagine when you say the quiet part out loud, it's discomforting. And let me just extend a final invitation. Whether you are passionately pro-Israel or whether you're passionately pro-Palestine, please join us. I want to be that bridge. I want to demonstrate to the world how Americans do this. Even if we disagree sometimes, we've got to place humanity first.

That means here. That means in Palestine. It means in Israel. Please, this is our one chance to change the course of world history if we do it together. It will not happen with Donald Trump or Joe Biden. Mark my words. Congressman, thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much. Have a great day. Keep the faith. Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community. I was calling about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there. Each week, I investigate a new case.

If there is a case we should hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Stay informed, empowered, and ahead of the curve with the BIN News This Hour podcast. Updated hourly to bring you the latest stories shaping the Black community.

From breaking headlines to cultural milestones, the Black Information Network delivers the facts, the voices, and the perspectives that matter 24-7. Because our stories deserve to be heard. Listen to the BIN News This Hour podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip-hop. It's Black Music Month, and We Need to Talk is tapping in.

I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives. Like, that's what's really important, and that's what stands out, is that our music changes people's lives for the better. Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.