Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 11/17/25: Trump Brands MTG As Traitor, Trump Flips On Epstein Files In Final Hour

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

Krystal and Saagar discuss Trump branding MTG a traitor over Epstein, Trump reverses on Epstein files. To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. On the podcast health stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. I'm Dr. Priyanko Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane de Bolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I Have Scurvy at 3 a.m? And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type two?

Extremely. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. First episode, How Southwest Airlines Use Cheap Seats and Free Whiskey. to fight its way into the airline is. The most Texas story ever. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, TD Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul philanthropist and global trailblazer. I could feel inside myself at four or five years old, looking through the screen on the back porch, that this is not going to be my life. Listen to the next chapter on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast, episodes drop weekly.

Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access. to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breakingpoints.com. Good morning, everybody. Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have

Christall? Indeed we do. We are going deep on what's going on in MAGA, Trump feuding with MTV and Thomas Massey. We got a late night reversal from him on the Epstein files. Now he's telling Republicans that they should vote for the release. This is a huge deal. So a lot to get into there. Meanwhile, Nick Fuentes is declaring that MAGA is dead. And so that is certainly worth discussing and debating whether or not this moment does, in fact, spell the end of MAGA effectively and how weakened President Trump is in this moment. We've also got Marjorie Taylor Green telling the truth about Israel on CNN, much to Dana Bash's shock and chagrin.

Israel also asking for a 20-year security agreement. Typically, those have been 10-year. They're asking for more money as well, seemingly an acknowledgement that they understand the politics of Israel are shifting very quickly here in the U.S. And we got some stuff from the Democratic side of the aisle as well, including new reporting on how Chuck Schumer, politically speaking, is a dead man walking. He probably won't get pushed out of leadership, but very unlikely that he would be able to run and succeed in 2028.

So a lot that's going on there as well. Don't want to lose side of the Dems and all of this. Yeah, of course. I mean, look, there's civil wars in both parties. That's really, I think, the theme of the show. Everybody, please go ahead and sign up breakingpoints.com to become a premium subscriber. You can support all of our work. And if you can't become a premium subscriber right now, no worries.

Please hit subscribe to this YouTube video or to anywhere on our YouTube channel if you're watching. And if you're listening to this podcast, please just go ahead and send this episode to a friend. We have a huge amount of people who are now coming in in terms of new viewers, new listeners, because of a lot of our Epstein coverage, which we've been on for the last five years. So, first of all, it'd be great to have your support. You know, we never lost sight of the Epstein issue. But second, if you are, you know, if you like our Epstein coverage and somebody in your life is interested, please just send one of our episodes, one of our videos to a friend. It really helps the show grow. Rate us five stars on a podcast platform as well.

But let's go ahead and start with MTG, as Crystal said. This is definitely the biggest news of the entire weekend. And it just demonstrates a variety of different things, is that there's a huge split right now in the Republican Party being forced over Israel, over Epstein by association, perhaps because of the association, between those two. But MTG has now come under fire, despite being one of the most loyal people to Donald Trump in the lead up to the 2024 election, but exposing a rift on what MAGA, America First, and all that means in the first year now of the Trump administration. Let's go ahead and put the truth up there that came on some Friday night. Trump officially unendorsed Marjorie Taylor Green. Here's what he had to say. I am withdrawing my support and endorsement of Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green over the Great Strait of Georgia over the past few weeks, despite my creating record achievements, blah, blah, blah.

What he continues to say is basically that she has lost the plot and that she is focusing on the Democratic Epstein hoax. Marjorie Taylor Green responds then. Let's go and put her text, please, on the screen. screen. President Trump just attacked me and lied about me. I haven't called him at all. I did send the text messages today. Apparently this is what sent him over the edge. The Epstein files. Of course, he is coming after me hard to make an example to scare all Republicans before next week's vote to release the Epstein files. It's astonishingly how hard he is fighting to stop the Epstein files from coming out that he actually goes to this level. But really, most Americans

wish he would fight this hard to help the forgotten men and women of America who are fed up with foreign wars, foreign causes, are going broke, trying to feed families, are losing hope of their ever achieving the American dream. That's what I voted for. I have supported President Trump with too much of my precious time, too much of my own money, and fought harder for him, even when almost all Republicans turn their backs and denounce him. I don't worship or serve Donald Trump. I worship God. Jesus is my Savior, and I serve my district GA 14 and the American people. I remain the same today as I've always been. I will continue to pray this administration will be successful because the American people desperately deserve what they voted for. For me, I remain America first and America

only. The text messages were especially noteworthy. Let's go to move those guys, just to show you the exact text that she sent Donald Trump and which apparently are what sent him over the edge. This went directly to DJT. Check the flight logs of Epstein's plane. Bill Clinton is on there like 26 time, Hillary, too. For many of us releasing the Epstein files has always been for the women who were victims of Jeffrey Epstein, but also because we believe the Democrat bad guys like the Clintons were entangled and involved with him. Epstein was a spider that wove the web of the deep state, lean into it. A second one that he sent to now. This is one of Trump's chief aides who often drafts a lot of his truth socials.

She says here, in every single interview I have done, I have defended President Trump. I've said over and over, the women say he did nothing wrong. And their attorney, he says he's the only one who's helped. And the Democrats had four years to release the files but did nothing. Stop ignoring the women. Many of them literally voted for President Trump and say so publicly. Them being raped as teenagers is not a hoax. So this is really what sent him over the edge, crystal.

And I think it is exposing the rift entirely in terms of MAGA as a cult of personality and whether that cult of personality could withstand this issue of the Epstein files. Now, originally there was a lot of MAGA pushback. Many of the biggest MAGA voices eventually retrenched, they decided to defend Donald Trump. You had the assassination of Charlie Kirk, which was kind of a coming together moment. But since that assassination, the Israel issue just continues to completely split apart the entire Republican Party. And Epstein has now become, I think, the flashpoint, not only of the. because of his own connections to the Israeli government,

but also because of Trump's complete reversal on the issue. Despite, you know, we'll get to this in a little bit, he did eventually come out and say, release the Epstein files. That was a total 180 after basically throwing his entire administration's power at stopping that discharge petition. They just took that beating in the 2025 elections. Trump is at his absolute weakest right now. This is a battle over 2028,

but it also exposes to the nth degree, just how much of MAGA itself, Trump only defines about, you know, his own personal loyalty, like endorsing Lindsey Graham and endorsing Thomas Massey or going after him, going after MTG now in this specific way. And I do think this is the first time I've seen Trump actually weak with a lot of Republicans and a lot of people are disgusted with his handling of this issue and of his unendorsing of MTV. Yeah. What I would say is do not underestimate this woman. Don't underestimate her. I agree. Because think about the fact that you have never had a Republican who turned on Trump and succeed that Trump didn't get the better of, that didn't get excised from the party, didn't end up a Jeff Flake or a, you know, or a Liz Cheney or something like that where they're just completely now anathema to the party, the base hates them, their traders, et cetera. He's trying to do that with Marjorie Taylor Green.

And he is not succeeding. He's trying to do that with Thomas Massey, and he is not succeeding. This tells us a couple of things. Number one, I think both Thomas Massey and Marjorie Taylor Green chose the most intelligent possible issues to turn on Trump. Okay. Israel and, you know, the anti-Semitism, wokeness panic, and Epstein. Those are the first issues where we've really seen him vulnerable with the base and with an energized online. constituency. So the issues she chose are incredibly, incredibly intelligent. And then she has gotten the better of him in all of these exchanges. Now, I don't know what is in Marjorie Taylor Green's heart.

I don't know what's in Donald Trump's heart. But we should look at all of these people as savvy political actors. And every single play that she has made has been extraordinarily savvy. Her messaging about, you know, how she always grounding it in her Christian faith and how she wants to reach out to the other side and how much she cares about the women here and how she's listening to them. And by the way, the women say you did nothing wrong. So what's the problem here? Why don't you release it? This is the deep state. Didn't you say that's what you're all about? Her messaging at every turn has been extraordinarily clever, extraordinarily clever and extraordinarily effective. So listen, Marjorie Taylor Green may not come off as like an intellectual.

I don't think she is an intellectual. But this is a very, very savvy political player who appears to be really the first Republican we have seen to turn on Trump in any significant way and actually come out on top of that exchange. Yeah, that's right. You know, the thing is about Marjorie is that I think that what we take away from her is the same thing that Trump used to have as a superpower, which is authenticity. She really hasn't changed all that much. And to the extent that she has changed, which we'll get to in a little bit, she has apologized. I mean, when is the last time that you saw self-criticism at a national stage level for a politician who is in real time assessing both new information and actually grab up.

You know, with the stakes of what happened instead of blindly just supporting the sitting president. And I think that is something which a lot of people cannot. This is part of the reason why. I don't think that many MAGA or MAGA aligned figures are going to have a hard time, you know, explicitly moving past Marjorie Taylor Green because everything that comes from her seems authentic on the Epstein issue from the Israel issue. You know, Glenn Greenwald says something interesting, which is if you look at the founder's conception of a citizen legislation, later, there is something genuinely refreshing about Marjorie Tiller-Green, where it actually does seem like this is a person who's taking in new information, reassessing, and actually sticking to a set of principles that she tried to from the very beginning. You can potentially see it as

a cynical move, and maybe it is. And maybe it's just authentic and it's strategic, which makes you something called a good politician. But that's really, you know, the way that I'm looking at this right now with Marjorie. We did have Marjorie Chelle Green now explicitly. I mean, embracing the fight with Trump. This is the other thing. It's not just one of those where Republicans in the past who have been attacked by Trump will be like, oh, you know, we have our differences, but of course I still support the president. She's in full-on attack war mode. Let's go to the next one, please, just to give you an example. Marjorie Chilla Green now blaming Trump for some of the threats that she has received. She says, a hoax pizza delivery has

started now, to my house, to my family. We've received a pipe bomb threat on my construction companies. President Trump's unwarranted and vicious attacks against me were a dog whistle to dangerous radicals that lead to serious attacks on me and my family. I've been down this road before. As a matter of fact, I campaigned all over the country, defended Trump. I received dozens of swatting calls on my house, my family members, with these pokes, pizza deliveries, even more severely, I have received some of the most death threats of any member of Congress that led to multiple men being convicted serving time in prison. All of that came from the left. Now, President Trump has called me a traitor, which is untrue and horrific. Mark Levin has called me a traitor.

So have other prominent, likely paid social media activists. This puts blood in the water creates a feeding frenzy, it could ultimately lead to a harmful or even a deadly outcome. The timing of this just happens to be days before we take the vote on releasing the Epstein files. I love America, the American people, a sworn oath to uphold the Constitution. I am not a traitor. However, when the president of the United States irresponsibly calls a member of Congress of his own party traitor, he is signaling what must be done to a traitor.

I've fought harder than anyone else to get Trump elected. I support this administration and the promises we made in the campaign. I'm a Republican in good standing. I've paid all my dues. my voting record is one of the most conservative in Congress. I'm proud of that. The toxic and dangerous rhetoric and politics must end. We need healing in this country for all Americans. And I think what strikes me again about that is a confrontational nature that she is taking there to Donald Trump, but she's also very strategically calling out the word traitor. What does the word

traitor mean, right? Remember, we talked about this when Hillary, for example, accused Tulsi of being a Russian ass. It's like you can't just say traitor and treason and imply that that people are explicitly against the country itself, they happen to disagree with you on this issue. She also points out people like Mark Levin and others who are supposedly not traitors to Donald Trump because, of course, they support Israel and they support Trump only because he is explicitly pro-Israel. And so she's, again, drawing the contrast between fighting for an issue set, and here the Epstein one, where Trump is really on the ropes, and pointing out the inconsistencies in who he goes after and who he doesn't. Trump did respond to her

comments. Here's what he had to say late last night. Her life could be at danger because of the rhetoric. Her life is in danger? Who's that? Marjorie Taylor Green, she says. Marjorie Trader Green. I don't think her life is in danger. I don't think, frankly, I don't think anybody cares about her.

Okay, what about you? Nobody cares about her. He's trying to ride her off as irrelevant. It's just not. I mean, you cannot get your way out of this. And, you know, Marjorie Taylor Green, again, she's very, very, very effective more recently in a lot of her interviews, fighting against the traitor label. She took to CNN yesterday. Let's take a listen to what she had to say.

I stood with President Trump when virtually no one else did. Campaigned all over the country, spent millions of my own dollars, helping him get elected. And I think that's incredibly important. And I do support him and his administration. And I support them in delivering the campaign promises we made to the American people. His remarks, of course, have been hurtful. However, I have something in my heart that I think is incredibly important for our country, and that is to end the toxic fighting in politics. And this has been going on for years, and it has divided our country, split up friends and families, neighbors, and it's not solving our problems.

The most hurtful thing he said, which is absolutely untrue, is he called me a, traitor. And that is so extremely wrong. And those are the types of words used that can radicalize people against me and put my life in danger. What do you think happened? What do you think is the reason for this? Unfortunately, it has all come down to the Epstein files. And that is shocking. And, you know, I stand with these women. I stand with rape victims. I stand with children who are in terrible sex abuse situations. And I stand with survivors of trafficking and those that are trapped in sex trafficking. And I will not apologize for that.

So, I mean, you know, if you look at the framing there, her attack on Trump, she seems somber in there. She's calling for unity. I mean, this seems to me like all of the hallmarks of a 28 presidential run. And I don't think it's an accident that this comes on the Epstein issue. that this comes after Trump just took a beating in the midterm elections. And more importantly, though, it was a time for choosing for Trump. Trump has chose now to be just ridiculously pro-Israel. He's chosen in a lot of the business community.

He's ignoring a lot of the economic problems and basically attacking anybody who distracts from the, you know, from the issues or even dissents and says that they're not true MAGA going after them with the full force of his administration. And he's very unpopular right now. He's in Biden territory. So this is part of what explains everything. I'm Robert Smith. This is Jacob Goldstein.

And we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all. It's a very simple, elegant lesson. make something people want. First episode,

how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business. The most Texas story ever. There's a lot of mavericks

in that story. We're going to have mavericks on the show. We're going to have plenty of robber barons. So many robber barons. And you know what? They're not all bad. And we'll talk about

some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked. Like Thomas Edison and the electric chair. Listen to business history

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dibolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, do I have scurvy at 3 a.m. On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also what our health says about us and the way we're living.

Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are. Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that you, like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but like, you don't even know. You don't know.

You don't know. It's going to be a fun ride, so tune in. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, D.D. Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul philanthropist, and global trailblazer. My life, although it may look like an anomaly, it has only been possible because I was always. obedient to the calls. This episode dies deep into how Oprah turned pain into purpose and what it really means to evolve with everybody watching.

Every decision I have ever made has come from sitting with the spirit and asking God, what would you have me do first? Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak directly to you listen to next chapter on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast episodes drop weekly here's the thing is uh number one the timing as you're pointing out he just took this absolute dropping coast to coast everybody knows it's a sign of major weakness and backlash against his administration he's a literal lame duck he's an old man he's falling asleep in meetings um and he's extraordinarily unpopular and

And then you have this real sore spot with the base where it's the one issue on the Epstein files. It's the one issue where they are extremely dissatisfied with how he's handling it. Then you think about who Marjorie Taylor Green is. You know, she's not Liz Cheney neocon type, right? Marjorie Taylor Green does not exist outside of MAGA, right? She is not a member of Congress if Donald Trump never is on the scene. She comes directly out of this movement as like, you know, a Facebook posting. QAnon mom. That's who she is. So she has credibility there with Trump's base as like, you know,

this isn't some sort of legacy Republican who just saw the writing on the wall about MAGA's assent and decided to conveniently and cynically bend the knee. No, she springs directly out of MAGA. So she has some purchase and credibility to say, I am actually representing the true principles of MAGA. Now, that has never worked in the past. In the past, Trump has been right that he has always gotten to say, no, I get to say what MAGA actually is. But now you have enough weakness and enough dissatisfaction on these key issues that you start to be able to gain some purchase with that sort of argumentation, especially when you are a person like Marjorie Taylor Green, who has that kind of credibility. The other thing I notice, you know, you were talking about how she's apologized for some of the toxicity and the toxic politics that she has. embraced. I mean, this is someone who has used extraordinarily violent and extremist rhetoric against

her political opponents. You know, she's been on board with everything Trump has done, basically, up until this moment and up until this year. And to be clear, I think you should evaluate every politician as a cynical actor. Like, she has her own political goals and the moves she's making in this moment align with whatever those political goals are. But it's also interesting to me, her approach is really a direct contrast from how Trump conducts himself. on the political scene because his motto is always never back down, never apologize, right? Even right now where he's doing a total 180 and now saying, yes, go ahead and release the Epstein files, he's pretending like that was his position all along.

Like he'll never admit that he got something wrong. He'll never apologize. And so stylistically, she is striking this incredible contrast, which I also think has a certain appeal to people. Now, I don't want to go too far because, look, I'm not in the Republican base. I don't know ultimately how that will shake out for 2028, whether people will see her as a traitor to the cause, whether she will ultimately end up in like a Liz Cheney kind of bucket

as a quote-unquote traitor. That's certainly what Trump is trying to accomplish. And I am a little skeptical of the fact, like, you know, the fact I find what she's saying appealing is a bit of a red flag to me. Like is this kind of like a fetterman of the right, you know, where people on the people who are Democrats are like, look at her on the view, look at CNN, look at how reasonable she's being in contrast to this madman.

and that makes their own base, the Republican base, hate her. That is a possibility as well that I want to put out there too. But right now in this moment, I think she's been extremely savvy and picked exactly the right weak point in his defenses to sort of take her stand here. And also, Sager, you know, yes, she's going directly against him, but then again, she's also draping herself in, I support this administration. I spent millions of my dollars to get this man elected. I still want him to succeed.

I want him to accomplish the things that he ran on for the American people. So it's also not a total hard break where she's just saying, you know, I'm done with this and now moving to the other side. And I think that also is part of what's savvy about the way she's positioned herself. I think that's an extremely important point. Let's understand MTG and the Liz Cheney type phenomenon. Now, what would attacking Trump in a, quote, liberal way look like, right? It would be by attacking him, I don't even, I'm not even, I can't even really think.

on immigration. I mean, yeah. Cheney, it was, Liz Cheney, it was on January 6th. That's when she turned on. So there you go. So here you could say, you know, you may be on Seacot or maybe on like the National Guard deployment and the authoritarianism, right? That's not it. Right. But that's not it. Right. But that's not it. So it's not the liberal framing of the critique. It's actually, what I think it's so effective is it's explicitly about the campaign promises and the spirit of why Trump got elected in the first place and saying, hey, that was a betrayal. Now, the reason I think it may resonate with you or other like commentators is that one of the ways that a lot of the Democrats have recognized to try and gain background is they're like, well, one way that we have to win

is in a bigger tent is to convince people to vote for us. And one of the ways to do that is to say the other person that you voted for didn't deliver what you promised. Now, but that's an important distinction in terms of what makes somebody a, quote, turncoat, and somebody who is actually authentically within, you know, that ideological sphere and then speaking out against that. The Republican critique of her right now, like the, you know, the pro-Trump critique is that she's undermining the administration, not, you know, that she is somebody who has like turned on everything that she used to believe in the past. I don't think that that's the case. Now, in terms of her stylistic apology, I read that very much in the way of actually coming

to terms with a couple of things. First and foremost was the Israel criticism. because I think it was a huge eye-opener for her in particular to take in a lot of the information about Israel, to conclude ultimately that we should not military support this nation. She even went so far as to call it a genocide. And I think what she understood is that in the past, you know, for a lot of politicians, they just bought the Israel propaganda kind of hookline and sinker. And what they watch is that nasty rhetoric be employed against them for simply acknowledging basic truths like, hey, you're slaughtering a lot of women and children.

And I do think that that in particular, a lot of the nastiness and the rhetoric, when they see how that is weaponized against them for merely just speaking their own mind and for trying to uphold those very principles, that makes them reassess how they themselves have acted in the past and also how you want to try and build some consensus in the future. And so this is one of those where everybody is trying to sketch out bets right now. We were just looking at the morning this morning. Ted Cruz attacking Tucker Carlson. part of it is because he wants to make a 2028 run. Part of here with MTG is explicitly picking and saying, hey, I feel like a lot of the promises are being betrayed. But, you know, also with MTG, you know, to give her at least some credit, you know,

if she is cynical, she often talks about her children and she talks often about the ability to purchase a home. Her home state of Georgia, by the way, I was just, we were just looking at some economic stuff this morning. Georgia is not doing very well in terms of their economy. They just had those democratic swings against them. If you want to preserve ability to win or winningness of the recent Republican coalition, you have to kind of return to a lot of those routes. She also, she passes a vibe check in terms of her ability to go and to do a lot of what Trump did in the original 2024 campaign.

She was just on the Tim Dillon podcast. I thought she handled it incredibly well. She can go on the view. She handled herself, I thought they're quite competently. She can pretty much go anywhere and handle anything. And that is something, again, which I don't think of Donald Trump would actually do very well on a podcast right now. if he's actually even remotely challenged, let's say, on Epstein or any of the promises that he originally made in 2024, because the power is now real. For her, she can actually critique,

and that's a very, very powerful. I've talked previously about kind of the rise of Nick Fuentes and others, and one of the things that Emily has said, I'm borrowing this, it's not my take, but I think it's so deeply true, is there is not a lot of space in the MAGA machine, and in particular in Republican media, for people who are not liberals to critique the Trump administration. That doesn't exist. There's no permission structure. It's a lot like Joe Biden saying he's senile back in, what, 2023. That was, like, we could not say those things in Democratic-aligned spaces,

even though a huge portion of the Democratic base was like, he's too old, he's too old, he's too old, he's too old. Well, there is a lot of American dissatisfaction, including people who voted for Donald Trump, who, again, are not liberals. These are not bleeding-heart liberals, but they are upset. And so to see them validated in this politician, it seems courageous, it's a big bet. Again, will it work out? I mean, who knows, right? It's only November. There's three years to go. Still two years, basically, till the actual primary really gets started in, is it Iowa still for the Republicans? I forget. I think it's still Iowa and New Hampshire. Like, yeah, look, nobody's going to make any declarations. And she could absolutely crash and burn that midterm elections will be an interesting test. She's on endorsing. He said in a follow-on truth, he wants somebody to run against her. Let's see. Let's see how it works out. But he's also, you know, going against Thomas Massey, and it doesn't look like that. It's really working out that well. For example, his most recent critiques, I think, are probably only going to strengthen Thomas Massey. Let's put that on the screen, for example, what we have here. Trump says, did Thomas Massey sometimes referred to as Rand Paul Jr., because of the fact that he always votes against the Republican Party, get married already? Question, question, question, boy, that was quick. No wonder the polls have him at less than 8% chance of winning the election. Not true. Anyway, have a great life, Thomas. and question mark, his wife will soon find out that she's stuck with a loser. So, I mean,

I think that that was a really, I don't know. I mean, it's one of those where a lot of people just looked at that are viscerally disgusted. Thomas Massey's wife tragically died, you know, of his previous wife tragically died, you know, of a health incident. And he was obviously heartbroken, recently just got remarried. And it's, I mean, he seemed pretty happy. I think that's great. You know, I think most normal people are like, wow, that's fantastic. You know, congratulations. Thomas, even in his announcement, he kind of made an ode, you know, to his dead wife and how he misses her all the time. And I think, you know, the visceral nature in which Trump attacked Massey is Massey, you can say whatever you want about him. I've criticized him

here before. I don't agree with everything that the guy says. But it's like MTG and I believe that what he says is what he thinks. And that's the most, right now, the biggest differentiation in all of politics, and for Trump to attack him like that, that pushed a lot of people the wrong way, because it's like, really, you're going to attack Thomas Massey, not only politically, but on his personal life, and then you're going to embrace, you know, Lindsay Graham and all of these other people who are explicitly against your so-called campaign promises, and, you know, we could talk of personal life there, too, all day long if we want to. It's like, who is your venom reserved for?

And I think that really pushed a lot of people the wrong way, Crystal. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all. It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want.

First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business. The most Texas story ever. There's a lot of mavericks in that story. We're going to have mavericks on the show. We're going to have plenty of robber barons. So many robber barons. And you know what? They're not all bad.

And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses, along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked. Like Thomas Edison and the electives chip. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you Get it. Your podcast. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dibolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled,

Do I Have Scurvy at 3 a.m? On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health. But also what our health says about us and the way we're living. Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely.

Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are. Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that, like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but like, you don't even know. You don't know. You don't know. It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeart Radio.

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, D.D. Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul philanthropist, and global trailblazer. My life, although it may look like an anomaly, it has only been possible because I was obedient to the calls. This episode dies deep into how Oprah turned pain into purpose and what it really means to evolve with everybody watching. Every decision I have ever made has come from sitting with the spirit and asking God, what would you have me do first?

Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak directly to you. Listen to the next chapter on the I Heart Radio at Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast episodes drop weekly. Let's be honest. If Trump said this about a designated MAGA enemy, no one on the right would have an issue with it. No one would have an issue with it. And he's done it many times, right?

Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, we could go back. Like the John McCain guy, I prefer my soldiers who don't get captured. You know, I told Ted Cruz's wife. was like like the fact that people are taking genuine issue with Trump like crossing a moral

line here that people on the right are taking issue with that is a sign number one that they hold Thomas Massey in you know relatively high esteem and also see him as a principled actor right and number two it's a sign of Trump's weakness again you know the fact that there's anyone out there saying this was too far and this is disgusting and I can't believe it I mean how many too far disgusting things Trump says and does like all the freaking time. Right. So then it's like, okay, well, why was this one too far? And, you know, ultimately, again, listen, Trump has been, he's been president twice. He almost won, you know, the second time as well. He's been a very intelligent political actor. So maybe we'll look back after all of this and say, you know what,

he was right. Thomas Massey lost in the primary. Trump was able to crush him. Marjorie Taylor Green has been marched down to the party. She's got enough future. That's all still very possible it on the table. But right now in this moment, I think we're seeing cracks and fissures that we truly never seen before. And we're seeing a weakness with Trump, with his own base that we've also really never seen before. I do want to go back to this Marjorie Taylor Green sought because this was the one where I saw the most pushback from the right on things that she's been saying and doing because she did that big interview with Dana Bash. And And Dana asked her, I think, quite reasonably, like, okay, well, you're upset about Trump calling you a traitor.

I've never seen you upset about his comments going too far before, even though he uses that type of rhetoric all the time. So why is it different now that it's you? And leads to a pretty, you know, an extraordinary admission for a politician of like, look, I'm sorry, you're right. You know, it's a reasonable criticism and I'm sorry. Let's take a listen to A4. You posted on X that President Trump is with his comments fueling a, quote, hotbed of threat. against you. Obviously, any threats to your safety are completely unacceptable. But we have seen these kinds of attacks or criticism from the president at other people. It's not new. And with

respect, I haven't heard you speak out about it until it was directed at you. Dana, I think that's fair criticism. And I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country. And it's been something I've thought about a lot, especially since Charlie Kirk was assassinated, is that we, I'm only responsible for myself and my own words and actions.

And I am committed. And I've been working on this a lot lately to put down the knives and politics. I really just want to see people be kind to one another. and we need to figure out a new path forward that is focused on the American people, because as Americans, no matter what side of the aisle we're on, we have far more in common than we have differences. And we need to be able to respect each other with our disagreements.

Wow. And, Tagger, I wonder what you make of that, because the whole ethos of MAGA is own the lips. Like, it's never been like some principled, intellectual, oh, we have these positions and we stick to them. Listen, there's some imaginary version of that that some think tankers have tried to put into place. But the reality is the core binding principle is own the libs. Give no quarter to your enemies. Give no quarter to anyone who is to the left of you whatsoever.

And so this was the thing that I saw. You can tell me if you think differently, but that she got the most pushback from conservatives of basically like, how dare you go on CNN in the lion's den and you apologize to them and right on the heels of Charlie Kirk's assassination and you want to go and she didn't apologize to you. There's no accountability here whatsoever. How dare you go in and say that you're sorry for participating in toxic politics? So I think this is in some ways the like the riskiest approach that you're going on the view and being very conciliatory going on CNN with Dana Bash and being very conciliatory here. I wonder what you make of it. Yeah. I mean, it's it's fascinating to me

because the reason, okay, for, let's explain, too. The real reason is because the post-Charlie Kirk unity thing was, yeah, we all disagree, but what we're going to do is we're going to unite and we're going to get the Trump administration to, like, declare war on Antifa or whatever, right? Use NSPM 7, we talked about all of that. Well, she kind of had the similar take that I did as I was like, man, like, we have a sick culture, we have a sick society. It's actually really shocking to see somebody just assassinated in cold blood.

over their political views. And if we're all going to have to live together, then there's just a simple way to get past that. You know, Trump's initial response, you know, I was like, oh my God, you know, it's the worst possible type of thing pouring gasoline on the fire. That's what he does. He's often done it to his own political benefit. But I do think, I really believe that this is her genuine belief because she mentions the Charlie Kirk assassination. And she also, look, as you said about owning the lips, at a certain point, though, at what point does it just become the central driving thing if you care about anything? If you really do care about anything, you can hate liberals. I certainly have my moments. But at a certain point,

if you have children, if you care about housing, if you care about economy, if you care about jobs, if you care about people's ability to simply exist in the world, at what point does that just actually directly obscure all of the things that the administration has done is doing or is not addressing in those core issues. That's really where I thought, you know, the big jump point for 2025 was, is a lot of people really did vote, I think, not only in terms of opposition to Donald Trump, but a lot of people didn't come out to vote, you know, the so-called swing coalitions and others who were largely supportive of Trump in 2024 because actually thought he was going to help their life. And I do think that we're entering perhaps an age where the

material kind of the material outlook of your life, especially if you're 33 years old, I don't I think it's good. I think it's bad. I think that if you're Gen Z, if you're younger, in particular, I don't even, I mean, do any of us truly have a hope of doing better in life than our parents did? That is the actual American dream. People talk about it a lot, and many people have been willing to go past that in order to vote for something cultural, you know, 2022 is an example. Even Trump, I think, in a lot of ways, 2024. She's making a bet that those things are becoming so bad, so ever present that she actually wants to try and to focus on that. And so I do think, you know, there's a commendation. Part of the reason why I think a lot of the Republicans are speaking out

against is ultimately that is what unites, you know, much of MAGA is, look, there's a reason they don't talk a lot about the inconsistencies within MAGA. There's a reason that they don't acknowledge the Epstein files mentioning Trump. There's a reason they don't talk about the corruption, let's say, of the Trump administration, or any of the many faults, you know, from personnel, the inconsistent Venezuela. A lot of the stupid and insistence. insane stuff that they have done currently is because it's about uniting in opposition to a different political agenda. And I think that if you start to look at things in more material views and also with a lot of the other country, it does kind of lead you back to where Marjorie Taylor Green is right now.

And I do think considering how that view of power has been now exercised by the Trump administration and a lot of people reject it, it's also not all that politically popular right now. People don't really care about owning anyone if your life is not getting better. They just don't. I have a burgeoning theory, a little kernel of a theory that I'll put out there and people can tell me what you think about this. Because honestly, I don't know enough about Facebook world to really say for sure. But when we think of someone being very online, we think of them largely being like super

on Twitter, right? Super on Twitter and these like weird podcast realms or whatever. Like J.D. Vance is that version of very, very online. And we've been talking here about increasingly since either. on purchase Twitter, it has sort of damned the Republicans in a sense because they believe that all their like sadistic, you know, fascist porn nonsense is actually is way more popular than it actually is. And so they've been totally out over their skis, the DHS, just like Nazi posting on Maine,

all this kind of crap, right? Marjorie Taylor Green is this is also very online. But she comes out of like the Facebook boomer mom world. which is still more, which is more connected to those like material concerns, you know, inflation and oh my God, here's the prices at the grocery store. And also is going to maybe have more of that sense of, you know, just sort of disgust at the overall at the political system and the nastiness and the viciousness. So it's, again, this is, I'm flirting with this theory. I'm not asserting it for sure. But her different orientation here and the fact that she's been able to put to pick up on some

vibrations within the Republican base that other politicians did not pick up on and be a little bit ahead of the curb, maybe because she is in touch with a different constituency than most Republican politicians have been and that, you know, the J.D. Vances of the world are. So that could be part of why she's positioning herself in a different way, because the media and the content she's consuming and the people that she is sort of centering her views on and, you know, using as her own barometer for where the bases are a different group than the kind of like elite influencers and podcasters that many Republican politicians are much more attuned to. Very maybe, maybe could be online. I could just be being a little bit more in touch.

You know, just go talk to people. Go, go ask them. What's, what's bugging you? You know, I talked to a lot of newer parents. That's who I've mostly been hanging out with. What are people complaining about daycare prices, right? They're talking about inflation. They're talking about the Difficulty of juggling things, buying a new house, interest rates, that dominates 95% of the discussion. It's not even really political, but you and I both know that is political. Whereas, you know, if you're online or if you're ever on Twitter, then a lot of it is like, oh, someone said, said this, how nasty of the left or why we have to crush them. I do, I've always said, I think the Twitter thing has been a huge problem for their, I think a lot of them are huffing their own bullshit. They're basically the mirror image of the Biden administration, they're posting charts.

about how well the economy is doing when every piece of consumer sentiment data says that it's going the opposite direction. All you have to do, if you are just as consistent as you were under the Biden administration, at looking at fundamentals for why people angry, discontent, upset, which leads to the Trump popular vote in 2024, then it doesn't, all you have to do is stay consistent to that to see the same playbook run under Trump. In fact, a sign that you're a hack is if you're doing the opposite of what you said back in 2024. So, you know, maybe she's just saying, consistent with that. I have no idea what it is, but it is noteworthy. And of course, what's most noteworthy is this is on the issue of Epstein. I'm Robert Smith. This is Jacob Goldstein. And we

used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history and some of the worst people, horrible ideas and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all. It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want. First episode,

how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business. The most Texas story ever. There's a lot of mavericks in that story. We're going to have mavericks on the show. We're going to have plenty of robber barons. So many robber barons. And you know what? They're not all bad.

And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses, along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked. Like Thomas Edison and the electric chair. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician.

And I'm Hurricane Dabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3 a.m? On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different. way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also what our health says about us and the way we're living. Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are. Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world. Like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but

like, you don't even know. You don't know. You don't know. It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On this week's episode of the next

chapter, I, D.D.Jakes get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul, philanthropist, and global trailblazer. My life, although it may look like an anomaly, it has only been possible because I was obedient to the calls. This episode dies deep into how Oprah turned pain into purpose and what it really means

to evolve with everybody watching. Every decision I have ever made has come from sitting with the spirit and asking God, what would you have me do first? Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak directly to you. Listen to the next chapter on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast, episodes drop weekly. Turning now to the issue of Jeffrey Epstein and the vote to release the Epstein files, an extraordinary late-night truth from Donald Trump saying, now should vote to release them. Let's put it up here on the screen. As I said on Friday night, aboard Air Force One to the fake news media, House Republicans should vote to release the Epstein

files because we have nothing to hide. He's not what he said, and we'll show you the audio just in a second. But he says, it's time to move on from this Democratic hoax perpetuated by the radical left lunatics in order to deflect from the great success of the Republican Party, including our recent victory on the Democratic shutdown. The Department of Justice has already turned over tens of thousands of pages to the public on Epstein, are looking at various Democratic operatives, Bill Clinton, Reid Hoffman, Larry Summers, and their relationship. The House Oversight Committee have whatever they are legally entitled to. I don't care, exclamation. All I do care about is that Republicans are back on point, which is the economy, blah, blah, blah. So the whole point

is he just says, nobody cared about Epstein when he was alive. And if the Democrats had anything, they would have released it before a landslide election. Some members of the Republican Party are being used, and we can't let that happen. Let's start talking about the Republican Party's record-setting achievements, not fall into the Epstein trap, which is actually a curse on the Democrats, not us, make America great again. So what he's saying is let's vote to release the Epstein files, because it only implicates the Democrats. Let's not talk about the Epstein files, because if we do, it's going to distract from Republicans. If we do talk about them, it is actually just all about the Democrats. Anyways, so I am completely absolved.

Also, just to be clear, 100%, because people are not making this emphatic. As of literally 48 hours ago, he was telling everybody, don't vote for the Epstein files. 100%. His own White House brought Lauren Bobert to the White House Situation Room to be briefed by the FBI director and the Department of Justice telling her, please do not sign this discharge petition. He called Nancy Mace, huge lobbying effort. The only reason he's saying it now and giving permission is that it looked like, at the very least 50 and possibly up to 100 Republicans, we're going to vote for the Epstein files release anyways. And so he backtracked. Originally, here's Here's what he said on Air Force 148 hours ago. Take a listen.

Why was your team encouraging Congressman Bogart, Congresswoman Mace, to not pursue this? Because we think it's bad to talk about it because it gets away from the subject of how well the Republicans are doing. We have the greatest economy. We have the largest investment ever made in our country's history. We have all of these great things happen. We have very little inflation, whereas he had record-setting, the biggest inflation in history. All of these things are good. And when you talk about the Epstein hoax, what happens is you're not talking about how well

we've done. Mr. President, on that subject, it's a whole purpose behind them. They want to waste people's time and some of the dumber Republicans like that. Mr. President, on that subject, are we going to see? It's mostly Democrats. So there you go. That's what he said. So whatever he claims, as I said, Republicans should vote for it.

That's not what he said. Chris, that's what you all showed there. He got it. This was one of the first. This was 100%. I've never seen this before. I've never seen him get absolutely destroyed. Like, he had to do, this is, this is W and Obama level, like, in the second term where the base

or the Republican Party is going to take a vote against the White House, and the White House just has to eat shit and swallow it and pretend that they supported it the whole time. I've never seen this in 10 years of covering Donald Trump. Yeah, no. I mean, it truly is a first. they were whipping super hard against this thing. They were threatening Republicans that he would maybe endorse an opponent against them. They were offering carrots.

So we'll support you in your race. If you don't vote for it, I mean, they were going all in. And then apparently what happened is when they realized we're going to have mass defections here. He thought it would appear less weak for him to completely flip and now support. Oh, of course I want you to support releasing the. files. I've always wanted that. Even though we're all like five minutes ago, remember you being adamantly opposed on the other side of this, he thought that would be a less weak position than watching perhaps some 100 Republicans vote against his explicit wishes. Now, the other game

that's going on here is you'll recall that we could put B3. Let's go and jump forward to B3 and put this up on the screen. He asked Pam Bondi to investigate the Epstein ties to various Democrats, Reid Hoffman, I don't know, Larry Summers. There was one other one as well. But in any case, it's like, look into those things in the Epstein files. Not him, of course, even though he's mentioned thousands and thousands of times just in the emails that were released last week. But don't look into that. Just look into some of my ideological adversaries. And so what Thomas Massey and others, understand this process are saying is that if there's an ongoing investigation, he could use that and his government could use that to say, even if this vote goes through the House and this vote

goes through the Senate and he signs it that those certain files, oh, we can't release those because now there's an ongoing and active investigation. So that may be part of the game that's going on here as well. Not to mention, these files are being held by his own government. I don't think anyone has any expectation that they're not going to be, you know, scrubbed, manipulated, pieces withheld that are unflattering to him or to his ideological allies. So I think he just decided the risk was too great on the other side and the political damage too great on the other side of continuing to appear like he was, you know, super guilty, obviously from his behavior. He looked really, really guilty. And then extremely weak when a significant chunk of your own party

over your active wishes still votes for this thing. And one more thing, Saugher here, is you got to give Roe Kana tons of credit here. This is his bill. This is Roe Kana's bill, a Democratic bill. And while Democrats early on, you remember back when we interviewed Alyssa Slotkin, the line coming from almost all of them was the Epstein files are a distraction. Sure, we'd like to know what's in them, but those are a distraction. We need to be focused on the real issues affecting the American people.

and like most people felt like you could do both. And number two, just from a pure political standpoint, I think Rokana recognized, just like Marjorie Taylor Green did and Thomas Massey did, this is a real weak spot for Trump. This is a real problem for him. And so we need to press on this. We need to be like a dog with the bone on this thing. And lo and behold, his insight there and his persistence to push this thing

and to get ideological allies on the other side of the aisle in Thomas Massey and Marjorie Taylor Green and others to stand alongside him. That is causing maybe the biggest damage, the most extraordinary damage that we have seen to Trump and his image with his own base that, you know, in the whole time that he's been on the scene. I mean, you know, part of it is also just the extreme nature of the issue. Like, this is Epstein. This is a disgusting pedophile. This is a guy who was, you know, hanging, paling around with the literally, like the global elite. This is now a 10-year, no, sorry, a five, six-year long thing that's baked in, I think, to a lot of American consciousness, especially for newer entrance into the political spectrum. Because let's say you're a younger person, you already know that the system is rigged, you hate a lot of the elites.

Then you learn about the Epstein thing. You're like, wow, they're actually like depraved, disgust. They protect their own interests. And then you see Trump, who you believed was somebody who would speak against the system, who was revolutionary, you promised to release those files, come in, be named in those files, lobby act guilty, make it so that, you know, they're not going to be released, do everything, possibly in your power to try and con the American people to say that there's nothing in them exactly, even though many of the members of your administration said they were in them.

It's just too much, you know, for people. That's why I think this issue is the one on which there is such a break. It's also where a lot of Republicans, they're like, look, man, people can forgive. for a lot. They can't forgive covering up pedophilia. It's just one of those where that transcends or is supposed to all political lines, right? And that's part of why the salience of this issue is so important, not to mention all of the foreign connections, including to Israel, which I think is a big reason why they also don't want most of the truth to actually come out. It's heartening to me to see Republicans who do try and take the Trump tack, just get ridiculously

attacked. Let's put this one up here on the screen. This is B4, please, just to give you a little bit of a taste. You had Congressman Troy Nails. He's a very Trump sycophant. He tries to take the Trump line. He gets destroyed in a lot of his replies. He says, I'll be voting no on the obscene hoax. The Democrats are using the hoax to distract us from the winning of the Trump administration. My message to Republican colleagues, don't let this noise keep us from delivering on the mandate the American people gave us. As you guys can see, he's got over 17,000 replies. And look, you know, Trump is not, Twitter is not entirely real life. But if you look at it, you know, a lot of these are big-time Republican reply accounts that are like, this is disgusting,

that's not a single good reason not to do it, pedophile protector, you know, even Nancy Mace, other congressman. It says weird and sketchy how you guys are acting here. You've got A-PAC tracker that's all up in there. By the way, Marjorie Taylor Green has been posting a lot of her A-Pack tracking graphics, just to show you, the A-Pack tracker who we had on earlier that they say is not going to, that they say, you know, just to show everybody how powerful they are, and now APAC is even fundraising off of the interview that we had with APAC tracker to say that those are the radicals that are trying to take them down. But, you know, I just want to show people, I think, you know, this thing with Congresswoman or the Democratic representative, Stacey Plaskett,

where she was getting texts in the middle of a hearing from Jeffrey Epstein, is part of the reason I think, is that a lot of Americans actually do understand, not just the bipartisan nature of but how it really does ensnare all elites. And the more that Trump, who was a revolution against those elites, appears to just be one of those people, which you could always say maybe he was, and that's been a lot of the critique,

but to really hammer that home in this story, that is what people find so disgusting, you know, I think about it. And so let's give an example here, just the fulsome nature of part of the reason why these files need to be released because they implicate so many people is these show that in a 2019 hearing,

Michael Cohen, he's testifying that Epstein is texting the Democratic representative from the U.S. Virgin Islands, where he owns the island and who that island has done quite a bit to cover up a lot of what he did while he was there. Let's watch the video and let's take a listen. Obama was president of the United States. And while we were once driving through a struggling neighborhood in Chicago, he commented that only black people could live that way. incline privilege. Yes, I will turn it over. You, as my friend, Mr. Meadows, pointed out, misled this committee even today in a written submission that contradicted your testimony. You have suggested you are going to review that. Did you review, are you going to review it in our next break to correct the record, yes or no? Yes. Question, you helped out the president's campaign or were involved in the campaign as a representative, as a spokesman, even in your words today. It was your idea for the campaign dating back to 2011. Is that accurate? Yes or no? Yes.

Mr. Weisenberg and other individuals, Ms. Rona, who are those individuals? Are they with the Trump organization? They are. There are other people that we should be meeting with? So Alan Weisselberg is the chief financial officer. Uh-huh. You got to quickly give us as many names as you can so we can get to them. Yes, ma'am. As Ms. Rona, what is Ms. Rona's Ms. Rona graph is the Mr. Trump's executive assistant. And would she be able to corroborate many of the statements that you've made here? Yes, she was, her office is directly next to his, and she's involved in a lot. I mean, how crazy is that, Crystal? You literally have her getting live text messages from Jeffrey Epstein, prodding questions.

She's looking down at her phone using those questions with Michael Cohen, and then he's praising her good work. All of this matters. Let's be 100% clear. Why does it matter? Put the next one on the screen. Julie Brown has done a great job of covering this. We've covered it here as well. some of the U.S. Virgin Islands corruption that has happened with Epstein.

As she points out, she has accepted huge amounts of money from Epstein was one of the few people who refused to return campaign contributions even after it was clear he had committed a lot of the crimes against girls. So just again, to show you all, and remember that there were all kinds of cover-ups going on in the U.S. Virgin Islands, including with prosecutors and others to stop some of the crimes in the estate from being released out into the public. and she is at the center of all of this.

So that's the point is this does ensnare everybody. Yeah, it ensnared Trump. I don't personally care, you know, whether it ensnared Trump, Democrat, whoever. I just want the information to come out because I do think it's so important to show how depraved and disgusting the American elite is, not just in their personal conduct, but how they'll do business with anyone and how that person who is in this depraved, you know, universe uses it to his own ends to enrich himself and to act on behalf of multiple forms. foreign governments. I think that's a pretty big story. I think it confirms what a lot of people

think, you know, about our system, about our government, about the way things in power actually work. But that's part of why Trump, who's in power, doesn't want it to come out. So, you know, you put this stuff together. This is why it all needs to come out. We can't have people like this in Congress, period. At least that's my standard. Yeah. Now, in fairness to her, after major pushback, she did decide to return the contributions that had come from Epstein. But, you know, the yeah I mean look if anyone is out there watching a program that only cares about the Epstein connections on one partisan side or the other like you need to get a new you need to get a new media habit because obviously what Epstein exposes first and foremost is that you know these partisan

differences when you talk about at the elite level oftentimes they crumble and they operate in very similar manner but I will say at this point the most important information to know is about the president of the United States, specifically because of those foreign government entanglements that drop site alone effectively has been covering in particular with regard to his connections to Israel. We need to know if the president of the United States is compromised by Israel or by, you know, there was a Russian connection too. I'd like to know about that as well or any other country that may be involved. Does Trump believe that these foreign governments have information on him that he would not like to come out. That is a very active

question and that is very, very important and central right now given the political power structure. The last thing I'll say, just to go back to that Troy Neals or whatever that guy's name is that put up that embarrassing tweet about how he was going to vote against them. Like, what does he do now? Because now Trump's turned completely and now he says, no, I want you to vote for the release. So this guy who completely humiliated himself on the, Trump's behalf out of his sycophantic nature to bend the name and say, no, no, sir, I promise I will do the thing that you want me to do and vote against this release. Now Trump has completely flipped his position. So what's this dude going to do? I mean, it's just the level of humiliation

that is going to come for you. If you try to be like a good Trump foot soldier, it's, this is the most routine thing we have seen over the course of multiple Trump administrations at this point. Like, you will be humiliated. You will be forced to defend things that are completely indefensible. You will be made to, like, eat your words and just completely cuck yourself and look like the lamest, weakest person on the planet. So congratulations to that guy. Way to go. Yeah, I totally agree.

And let's end with this new ad that's being released by many of the Epstein survivors. It's being played nationally to try and release the Epstein files and just keep the issue salient. Let's take a listen. I suffered so much pain. So much pain. So much pain. I suffered so much pain. I was 14 years old.

I was 16 years old. Was 16. 17. 14 years old. This is me. This was me. Jeffrey Epstein. This is me when I met Jeffrey Epstein. There are about a thousand of us. It's time to bring the secrets out of the shadows.

It's time to shine a light into the darkness. Very powerful. As you could see there from the Epstein Survivor, I think they're going to keep this a live issue. It's not going away. Any attempt by the Trump administration to try and cover it up. Good luck to you, folks, because I don't think that it's going to work. On the podcast health stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double-board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3 a.m? And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes.

In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Listen to health stuff on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history.

And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destroy. Constructive companies in the history of business. First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline is. The most Texas story ever. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who have had massive success about their massive failure.

What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Check out Not My Best Moment with me kept on stage on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.