Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 1/18/26: Iran Protester Recounts Crackdown

Episode Date: January 18, 2026

Ryan Grim interviews an Iranian protester on the crackdown by the government.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, it's Joel and Matt from How to Money. If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back. Prices, they're still high. And the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right.

Yeah, each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on. And the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to How to Money on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken. But what if the real work isn't physical at all? I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name.

Part of the way through the Valley of Despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward. Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your favorite shows. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him?

I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York. since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. There's been a lot of talk about the geopolitical implications of the protests in Iran, but there has been little heard from protesters themselves. That is not merely a failing of the media. Part of the reason is that the government there has shut down the internet for an extended period of time,

which is blocking people from reaching, loved ones or reaching Western or any other media outside of Iran. And it's blocking people from inside, journalists who are inside Iran from getting images out. There's also the phenomenon that we know of of transnational repression, that even if you are able to get in touch with one of your family members who is in Iran, if you speak publicly and they find out who you are, there's a significant risk for the family back at home. So joining us today will be a person who has been involved in protests for, you know, several decades at this point inside Iran and was there at the height of the demonstrations, has since left. We're not going to talk about where she has left to or where she came from in order to conceal her identity.

But we're grateful that she's joined us today. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. And so can you tell us a little bit about, well, actually tell us the first protest that, or how did you realize that this protest movement, which started shortly after Christmas, was something serious? And when did you first start participating in it? I went home to visit family. I had no idea that there was unrest until Thursday night, 8th of January. And we were sitting around.

But you had been there for weeks at that point. Yes, yes. But it hadn't responded to the scene. I didn't notice anything. And we would hear about things happening outside of Tehran, but not in Tehran. I didn't notice anything. And that's not surprising because I wasn't near anywhere near center of town or places that people would gather.

But on Thursday night, around 8 p.m., we started, we were... January 8th? Yes. January 8. We were sitting around just drinking, socializing. with a few of my friends and we started hearing, chanting outside. So we went out to check out what was happening

and we realized that people were getting together and the chants were getting louder and louder. So we decided to go out and check it out. It's cold in Iran at night right now. So it took like a few minutes to get our clothes, get ready. And we were in the streets on Thursday night a little before 8.30 p.m.

And so what did you see when you were out there? There were just like groups of people. We walked for a long time. So by the end of the night, we were miles away from where we started. And it was, there were people everywhere, everywhere, in alleys, main streets, and they were moving. there were more and more people joining main streets in Tehran, and they were chanting,

and everybody was really excited, and we were all surprised, all of us were surprised to see these many people out on the streets. People of Iran have been protesting for a long time, and at least for myself, I can say, that I've always driven, of these many people coming out supporting each other

and it happened. Yeah, how did it compare to previous demonstrations over the years? I've never seen anything like this. On any, I've never. Not in green movement. Although there was a silent protest after the election during the green movement

that I wasn't there but I heard that there were hundreds of thousands of people silently walking. But besides that one, I have never heard about anything this massive. And it seemed organic. And people were joining. As they were hearing chance from the streets, people were coming out. I saw an old lady with a cane, really old. I went and talked to her.

I asked her to go home. I told her that I would do what she wants to do. She should tell me what I should chant, and I would do it for her. She doesn't have to be out. She's like, no, I'll stay. I'll just walk slowly. I'll walk behind you.

And that was Thursday night. It was just awesome. There were some reports of violence that Thursday evening somewhere around the city. Did you see anything, though? what was the balance between kind of just marching and chanting

versus clashes with security services? We did not see any clashes between security forces and the protesters and they stayed away from us. The two times that we saw any sign of

government regime people present was tear gas behind the crowd. If they wanted to They wanted us to move. They would tear gas that area and we would just walk away from that area. That was it. There was no clashes that I saw on Thursday.

Thursday was pretty much people. And the crowds got so big. I don't know. Besides what they did on Saturday, there was nothing they could have done. There was just so many people that the sheer number of people in the streets was unprecedented. So then Friday, January 10th, what was your experience? So Friday was the same, but with more presence from police forces, militia, we saw them, but they wouldn't engage. There was still tear gas, but I heard from other friends across

town that they saw snipers on rooftops and they saw people falling. So there was some presence on Friday night. But it was still mainly people and the only

I don't know what I saw the coverage on state TV. They saw that people set fire to mosques and I'm not surprised by that. When you use mosques to force people into a way of life, you shouldn't be surprised if that's the first thing they set on fire. But I heard other violent stories that I did not witness.

I don't know if normal, regular people are capable of that kind of violence. But I don't know. Like, state governments have turned people into violent beings all the time. But I didn't witness any of the protesters doing anything violent on Tuesday, Friday, or Saturday. And at that point, what's communication like? You couldn't communicate out of the country, but within the country you could? So on Thursday night, I could even text outside of Iran.

Okay. Up to, I don't know if it was 8 p.m. or 9 p.m. Like between 8 and 9 p.m. Everything just stopped working. We couldn't even call each other. Internet went out. That was Thursday night. Calls.

So the only thing that we could do, it was landline to landline. Landlines could call each other, but that was it. on Thursday night. So there was really no way to organize at all. Friday night happened organically. So then Saturday, people are back in the streets. What time did you go back out on Saturday? Describe what Saturday was like?

Saturday was, I don't think I'll ever forget Saturday. Saturday was brief I think it was around I had to do something on Saturday for work so it was a little later I think around 7 or 8

I don't think it took even an hour but as soon as we reached an area people we gather, we started hearing machine guns, like not just one shot, two shots, just shots nonstop. And then as we ran and we heard people falling. and then I saw like two blocks away from like further away from where we were a neighborhood just got lit up silently just so bright that it was like it was day for like 10 seconds I don't know what they used but it just lit up and then went there were there were

big groups of bikers with like machine guns and machetes just controlling and did they have uniforms no they were like dressed in black

with face masks and my friends asked me if they were Iranian or not and there's no way we could we could have we could have tell it's just impossible to tell They were in a large group together? Like, can you describe these motorcyclists?

Yeah, they were always in large groups together, dressed in black, like commandos or like movies. And really scary, like staring even the day, Sunday after Saturday, I was in a car. And they were patrolling the streets after Saturday. And they came from behind, like a group of 50 of them at least. And I was so scared that I couldn't look away. And one of them was staring at me. And one of my friends held my hand and was like, look at me, don't look at them. Like, tried to get my attention away from them.

Just freakishly terrifying. And you were telling me that as you were running, you could hear the bullets and you could see people fall. How close to how close to you were the people who were going down? Like what kind of... I have no idea. Right. Like I could tell you, but I don't know how accurate it would be.

It was shocking. How did you finally get away? Like what was what got you to say? We ran. We ran down. far away. Like we got lucky because we got out late and we just ran back into the alley. And people opened doors, but it was just like we were close enough to get away. To the place where you were staying?

Yes. I wasn't, we didn't even got that far on Saturday. And then it was quiet, like silence. Thursday and Friday, like at 1, 2 a.m. people would still be in the streets and they were chanting from rooftops and windows and people would support even if they didn't leave the house. Saturday night after, so like for an hour, there was a lot of noise, a lot of light, a lot of commotion and then silence.

Just absolute like even I don't think Tehran has ever been this silent. There weren't even sirens or nothing. Just deathly silence. Just silence.

And I know that I try not to watch the videos still because like I don't, yeah, I can't take them right now but I know that videos are coming out now, but most of these videos are from Thursday night. Friday and maybe Saturday if it's super violent.

There was nothing after in Tehran. So Sunday, Monday, so the rest, so that was complete, from your perspective, that was complete suppression. Yes, Saturday night, Tehran was massacred, and then it went. quiet. Is there any sense or is any talk of renewing them once people have regrouped or is your sense that this is, that the level of violence was significant enough that it's just completely knocked out, like totally suppressed?

I don't know if I can predict that, but every time the people of Iran have protested, they have responded with violence and every time the next time has been worse for them. And I think something changed on Saturday night because they killed indiscriminately. They fired into crowds of people. And they said that they were going to do that. But I don't think people, they sent text messages from intelligence services to all. of the people of Tehran. That was the only text that we could receive to numbers in Iran.

And they warned the people. Don't come out because we are going to use force if you do. And they did. Something changed. I know that there's a lot of discussion of who can hijack this movement, the freedom movement of the people of Iran. Iran and it's very possible. But I can tell you this, the way that the government of Iran has responded to the protesters,

every single person in Iran would happily join any intelligence service to end this regime. There's that we are not unified in what we want, but we are unified in not wanting the Islamic Republic. What was the talk among demonstrators about? what the end goal was. What was the step from, you know, hundreds of thousands of people in the streets on Thursday to the regime being toppled?

There wasn't a lot of talk. It was just like, chat thing. But my sense is that nobody knows, and that's very scary. And I think, the people everyone know that

in chaos there's risk they know that their livelihood is going to be affected dollar has like the Iranian currency has dropped in value so much that a regular person in Tehran now makes a little less

than $300 probably millions of families have dropped from middle class to four so I think I think they know it's going to be rough. I think they're scared of what's going to happen next. I think this government could have stopped this many, many times during this 47 years.

They could have made change easier and smoother. But every time they chose to oppress their own people, to kill their own people, hang their own people, torture their own people, their own people. And there was the saying after Massa Aminni was murdered that

the rage of a grieving mother will never go quiet. And there are thousands of grieving mothers in Iran right now. And I don't know what they're going to do with that. They might succeed this time.

But something changed. Now, the videos and the photos that you shared with me that you and your friends took, were those mostly from Thursday and Friday? Did you catch anything from Saturday or were you in and out so fast? No, no, they were, yes, I had nothing on Saturday. And I meant to take a video of the bikers, but I was so scared I couldn't move. I can tell you this.

They were like freakishly terrifying. They were moving around collectively. Yes, and patrolling. Even after Saturday night, they would patrol and scream and, you know, just make sure that their presence is known and that they are causing terror so that people won't come out anymore. I also wanted to get your reaction to the government's response here, as you saw, they brought in a bunch of ministers from around the world and showed them footage. of armed and masked.

And people have probably seen a lot of this footage as it has kind of circulated over the internet on the internet. Here you have people firing a shotgun. And there's more of this, you know, how does this, how do you relate that to these, the dynamic that unfolded? I didn't see anybody armed in the crowd and I didn't see any violence. I'm not surprised. It's been 47 years. I'm not even surprised if it turns out that there are foreign agents among the crowds. Of course, I know Israel benefits from turmoil in Iran. I'm not surprised if they try to capitalize on this, if they try to hijack it.

But I'm not surprised that the government of Iran does these kind of performative like sittings with ambassadors. They have done this. It's not new. And they have a certain narrative that everybody that opposes us is imperialist agent and agents of Musad or CIA. And I'm not denying that Musad or CIA are not denying that musad or CIA are not denials. benevolent agents in the world. But I can tell you that most of the people in the streets are the people of Iran. And I'm not saying that they are beyond being manipulated. Of course they are.

But any, I think anyone in the situation that the people of Iran are right now, economically, culturally, sanction-wise relationships with the out. outside world. You look at the situation in Iran from any aspect that you like, you will understand why the people of Iran would come to the street. It doesn't matter who asks them to. They want change. And I don't think these kind of having ambassadors watch videos would work anymore, even if there

are armed agents that hijack these movements. That doesn't matter. That's not the movement. Because this hasn't been the only uprising. We have been protesting for 47 years. The mullahs are corrupt and cruel, and that's the truth. And I think, as somebody who's been a leftist and a progress, I'm actually a little heartbroken that we can't say that with our full chest because Iran has been a presence in the Middle East that's at least a kind of obstacle for United States and Israel.

But that shouldn't mean that we deny the people of Iran what they deserve, which is freedom and a dignified life. And if Iran has been an obstacle for Israel and Israel has been an obstacle for the Islamic Republic, all of that can be analyzed without being silent when people are being oppressed. Now, when it comes to the American response, the Trump administration, as far as my sources are telling me, are still leaning towards airstrikes, despite the fact that we are where we are, where do the demonstrator obviously there are a lot of different viewpoints but like how do you see American intervention and how to how what is your general sense of how people in the street sense it and it goes to that that same question earlier what's the step from American air strikes to

the regime toppling because from my own analysis and I don't know I've never been to Iran I don't know it as well as people who live there but I don't see how American airstrikes bring about regime change I I fail to see what the connect how how that connects from one to the other so what so give me your take on that I okay I'm hesitant to just give you my own opinion I'll tell you what I think and what I think people of your own think most of them I am anti-war. I do not like air strikes and I do not like foreign interventions. They're always short-sighted in not motivated by what I think is needed on the ground.

And I don't respect Donald Trump in any shape or form. So my personal opinion is I don't trust what he says. I don't trust what he does. And I don't, I wouldn't, if it was me, I wouldn't ask him for help. And I don't know how airstrikes can need to regime change. I have no idea either. I'm just a normal person. I've never worked in politics.

But inside, on the streets, I think people were as divided as the Iranian diaspora outside of Iran. I think there are a lot of people that are so done, it's been so bad that they're like anything. If they can attack and kill Harmony, for example, without us having to pay a lot, sure, why not? And there are people that are like absolutely not. We do not want anybody to attack us. And I don't, I'm not saying that we should take everybody's opinion and like take an average I don't believe in that kind of attitude and it comes to making these decisions

and I don't presume that I know what's best so I'm just talking for myself I'm just telling you what I think and I think the best thing for Iran is for we have elites in prison we have elites outside of Iran we can have a group of people that would

help the people, help referendums and help polling to move from this regime to a more democratic one, if possible. Throughout 47 years they have tried to kill and

silence everybody inside of Iran and they have done some assassination outside of Iran as well. But I still think Iranians themselves have people that are capable of steering this country. at least towards a better path.

I don't think we need anyone, particularly those who are responsible for genocide and other people. Well, thank you so much for sharing your experience. Very much appreciate you. Thank you. I'm sure that was difficult and it's going to live with you for forever.

Thank you. Hey, it's Joel and Matt from How to Me? money if your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape. We've got your back. Prices, they're still high and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Yeah, each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to how to money on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Dr. Jesse Mel. host of the Mailroom podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken? But what if the real work isn't physical at all? I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name. Part of the way through the Valley of Despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward. Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to the Mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your favorite shows. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers,

but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast Guaranteed Human