Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 12/10/24: CEO Shooter Caught w/Manifesto, Pete Hegseth SecDef Debate, Daniel Penny Found Not Guilty

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Krystal and Saagar discuss CEO killer caught with manifesto, debate on Hegseth SecDef nomination, Daniel Penny found not guilty.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.com   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at BreakingPoints.com. Good morning, everybody.

Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal? Indeed we do. So they found the alleged CEO killer. They got him. Yeah, and very interesting and elaborate online history. We'll get into that and how he was located,

a lot of really interesting details about him and his background. So we'll get into all of that. Also, he was found with a manifesto. We've only gotten little bits and pieces of that, but we'll tell you what we know. It's kind of basically what you would expect. His motivation would be in this killing. All right, we also have some updates for you

about Defense Secretary nominee Pete Hegseth. Looking more now, like he may make it. He had a meeting with Joni Ernst. She seems more favorable. She was one of the previous holdouts. So we'll break that down for you as well. We also have a verdict in the Daniel Penny case. He was the man who was on a New York subway. There was a mentally ill man, Jordan Neely, who was sort of menacing passengers, puts him in a chokehold. Jordan Neely ends up dying. So we have a verdict in that case. We'll break all of that down for a very fraught issue and a lot of feelings on both sides of the equation with that one. Also, a story that I've been wanting to cover because it is an important

international story, but also has potentially important implications for us here as well. Presidential election completely annulled in the country of Romania due to TikTok misinformation and supposed foreign actor intervening. Really troubling what is unfolding there, regardless of how you feel about the candidates involved. And like I said, some potential implications here as well. So break that down for you. Sager is delivering his anti-online sports gambling opus.

He wanted to make sure I was very specific, not anti-gambling in general, just online sports betting. I know a lot of thought and work went into this one. It's 3,000 words. I don't know how long it's going to take to record. It could take a while. So everybody gear up. I will be posting it everywhere.

I want people to spread the word. Ever since I started posting about this, I have been getting some of the most heartfelt and horrifying messages from a lot of women in particular whose husbands have been gambling away their savings. They feel like they can't say anything. So this is for the women out there. This is what I'm doing. I will say this is an issue where I have sort of conflicting feelings and my mind is not settled or made up. So I'm looking forward to you. I think, I think I, I don't, I don't think a reasonable person could watch this and defend the practice because I will go anyway, you'll watch it, but it's systemic. So we're going to talk about the problem. We're going to talk about the justifications. We're

going to talk about the philosophy, the philosophy behind why it was legalized in the first place, the law specifically. But I, I think the most convincing part that I hope to have is the business practices themselves and why, if they are regulated and made to be fair, they literally cannot operate. The only way that they can turn a profit is by exploiting addicts and specifically by banning people who win. So if you think it's fair, it's a bullshit game. It's completely rigged. And that's something that I really hope people will take away. So interestingly enough, both of our monologues are about capitalists exploiting addicts. So I'm taking a deep dive into our health care system through the lens of this chain of methadone clinics and the way that they have abused their patients for profit. And what this says more broadly about our health care system, obviously,

massive conversation sparked by the killing of that health care CEO. So break that down for you as well. Before we jump into the show, though, I do have an ask for you guys. For those of you who are interested, this is something that Ryan has been really championing as well. You know, if you all remember the Palestinian poet Rafad Al-Arir, who was killed by the IDF just over a year ago, one of his poems, which is titled If I Must Die, really went quite viral. A lot of people sharing it because it was basically a letter to his daughter for the event in which he was killed. And of course, he was killed. I actually read it on the show. I don't know if you guys recall. In any case, his book of poetry is being re-released

today. And there is a real grassroots push to try to get this book of poetry onto bestseller lists, including the New York Times bestseller list. I actually just got a text from Ryan this morning. He says he spoke to the publisher. I'll just read you his text. Talk to the publisher. They've already received nearly 10,000 pre-orders, which is fantastic. Normally, that would be enough to make the bestseller list, but not during Christmas. So we need a few thousand more. So if you're interested in supporting this cause and elevating the cause of the Palestinian people, this would be a fantastic way to do it by purchasing his book of poetry, including If I Must Die. Again, this is Rafat Al-Arir. So thank you all very much for those of you who participate. There you go.

And thank you to all its premium subscribers, BreakingPoints.com, if you want more content. We got big plans. We had a big meeting yesterday. I think people are going to be really excited. Okay, so with all of that, let's get to the news. Let's go ahead and put the video on the screens. A 26-year-old Maryland and or Hawaii man, Luigi Mangione, was taken into custody yesterday in Altoona, Pennsylvania, after a worker at McDonald's recognized him from the wanted pictures that were put out by New York City police and by the media. And so police were called. This is the official chain of events, at least for what we know right now, to the McDonald's. They cornered Luigi Mangione. They asked him for identification.

He presented to them the same identification, false identification, New Jersey ID that he had given to the New York City hostel that he had stayed in previously. They also searched his bag, found multiple false identities, IDs, as well as a U.S. passport, $2,000 in foreign currency, $8,000 in United States currency, and a quote-unquote ghost gun. A ghost gun is one of those. It's hard to explain exactly. The basic way to say it's like a 3D-printed weapon, which makes it more untraceable. There's been a lot of controversy around it from the ATF and others, and it is very popular in kind of crypto right-wing circles. I actually met the founder of Ghost, and he's an interesting dude. My point, though, is that that was a signal, at least a little bit for me, in the beginning, where I'm like, this guy's online. And to say

that he's online is actually a little bit of an understatement. Let's go ahead and put his mugshot that was there up on the screen. Pennsylvania police released this mugshot of Luigi Mangione. He has now officially been charged with murder in the city of New York, as well as false identification and having false property. So he will be extradited, I'm assuming, there. His entire background is kind of fascinating, and obviously it will tell the story as we continue to get it. But this is the valedictorian of a very prestigious Baltimore prep school. He earned his bachelor's and master's degrees at the University of Pennsylvania. He served as head counselor at a pre-college program at Stanford University. His family is actually quite wealthy and well-known in the Baltimore area.

Some of his relatives' cousins are even state legislators in the state of Maryland. His family seems to be some sort of like country club tycoons who are known in the area and quite wealthy, actually, themselves. And not only so, my understanding is, this was reported by the New York Times, as well as some online sleuths, the source of their fortune originally comes from a chain of nursing homes, which could end up being relevant given that his purported motive here was anger at the healthcare industry. So put that out there. And then with that wealth, yeah, they purchased a number of country clubs. This is a very wealthy, well-known Baltimore family. He goes to this $40,000 a year prep

school, goes off to Ivy League school, same one as Donald Trump. You know, lots of very highly esteemed individuals have gone there, studies computer science. You know, everyone who's in contact with him basically says, this is a bright kid, you know, very popular, like seems like he has everything going for him. And then there seems to be a turning point in his story

when he suffers some sort of horrific back injury. It seems to have plagued him for a while, but then he had back surgery. We don't know if he got the surgery or not. That hasn't yet been confirmed. Well, some of his people who knew him, who were friends with him along the way, did confirm that he had some sort of back surgery. We can put this up on the screen. This is from his Twitter bio and the banner that is at the top. So we've got a Pokemon situation. The middle screen there, that's an X-ray potentially of his back that you see all these pins and hardware that would be indicative of some sort of either horrific injury or degenerative condition. You also see him

showing off his well-muscled physique there hiking in some beautiful mountains, potentially in Hawaii, where he lived for quite a while. But the acquaintances who've spoken to the press and friends who've spoken to the press and his social media footprint also indicate that he has this back surgery. If you look at his Goodreads list, he's looking at all of this literature about how to deal with back pain and how to rehab your back, et cetera. He sort of, he drops completely off the map in terms of his friends, family, et cetera. If you go through his social media profile, you've literally got a friend who's like, dude, you're supposed to be in my wedding and I can't get in touch with you. Like, I need to know what's going on. And if I can rely on you, you've got these other messages that are like, where are you? We're worried about you. Like,

no one's heard from you. And so he seems to have, you know, this seems to have been, according to the people around him, what really triggered a turn for him. Yeah. His mother reported him missing actually just last month in November. Oh, interesting. And so his family didn't know where he was. They were reaching out to his high school friends trying to figure some of this out. You know, obviously, we're just trying to piece all this stuff together. We don't have 100 percent knowledge. The NYPD did give a press conference with some of the details. Let's take a listen to that. Earlier this morning in Altoona, Pennsylvania, members of the Altoona Police Department arrested

Luigi Mangione, a 26-year-old male on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed to be our person of interest in the brazen targeted murder of Brian Thompson, CEO of United Healthcare, last Wednesday in Midtown Manhattan. The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by an employee who then called local police. Responding officers questioned the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple fraudulent IDs as well as a U.S. passport. Upon further investigation, officers recovered a firearm on his person, as well as a suppressor, both consistent with the weapon used in the murder. They also recovered clothing, including a mask consistent with those worn by our wanted individual.

Also recovered was a fraudulent New Jersey I.D. matching the I.D. our suspect used to check into his New York City hostel before the shooting incident. Additionally, officers recovered a handwritten document that speaks to both his motivation and mindset. All right, so that's what we know so far. He did have a very prolific online presence to which we can gleam a little bit. Let's go and put A6, please, up on the screen. And this fits with the back pain. It appears that from his Goodreads profile, Goodreads is kind of like a social network for being able to rate and review books, that he had a couple of books here. He had David Goggins' Can't Hurt Me. But here's the indication. It's the book called, quote, Crooked, Outwitting the Back Pain Industry and

Getting on the Road to Recovery, Grit, the Power of Passion and Perseverance, and Back Mechanic by Dr. Stuart McGill. All of those give us a clue and combined with some of the testimony that he had given to many of his friends when he was living in Hawaii who all report him having some horrific back problems after surfing and others where he'd be bedridden and he was personally having a real crisis with it. Then, though, as we move on in Goodreads, you get to start a little bit of a political journey. Who is this gentleman? His journey, shall we say. And there was some Uncle Ted love. Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. Goodreads, he reviews Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber.

Uncle Ted is a joke, by the way. It's an online thing. Where he says, it gives it four stars, as if he could do better. Which is hilarious. And he says, when all other forms of communications fail, violence is necessary to survive. You may not like his methods, but to see things from his perspective, it's not terrorism, it's war, and it's revolution. If you've never read the Unabomber Manifesto, it is quite something. I believe I did a monologue here on the Unabomber Manifesto. I can't remember why it was relevant.

Tucker had talked about it. Maybe that's why. Volume one is interesting. Volume two is where things start to get a little bit better. It had a moment, too, because Blake Masters was into it as well. Which all—what was the plot twist here is that based on the online footprint, and we don't know what this gentleman has been up to for the past six months, his politics are much more sovereign than me, which is kind of hilarious. He's a Superman fan. I have a description of him. I think the best description is secular, right-wingwing anarcho-anticapitalist.

And honestly, that is about as good as you're going to get for this person. For example, I tweeted immediately when I reviewed his profile. Here's what I said. I said, a quick perusal of the CEO killing suspect indicates someone plugged into online health tech discourse with right-wing sensibilities about the collapse of religion in the United States and why immigration won't solve Japan's problems. This is going to be an interesting one. It does appear that Mangione spent some time in Japan.

Let's go put an 8-8 up there on the screen. This one is personally hilarious to me. The saga parallels were a little weird because he had this Japan visit and then he was nuclear posting. He's an Andrew Huberman fan. He likes Chris Williamson.

It's honestly scary. I have a lot in common with this dude. A lot of the Goodreads books, some of them are cringe, some of them are actually quite good. So here's what he tweets. Leave this up here. Modern Japanese urban environment

is an evolutionary mismatch for the human animal. The solution to falling birth dates, he meant birth rates, is in emigration. It's cultural. Encourage natural human interaction, sex, physical fitness, and spirituality.

Ban fleshlights and other custom porn star pockets being sold in Don Quixote grocery stores. I like the way you're saying that. That is such a Japan post for anybody who has been there. Replace conveyor belt sushi and restaurant vending machine ordering with actual human interaction. Replace 24-7 e-sports cafes where young males earn false fitness signals via Tekken fighting and Overwatch shooting games with athletics in schools.

Heavily stigmatized maid cafes. My analysis was, quote, it appears the United States, United CEO, healthcare CEO, killing suspects spent some time in Japan and had some thoughts about how to, quote, unquote, return their society. I said I think there's a non-zero chance he was inspired by gay Koku Joe style assassinations. You could also see like J.D. Vance posting something very similar to this. Let's keep going because the parallels here, again, to my own sensibilities are shocking. Let's go to the next one. Here he says, he got into a back and forth with someone, but he says, Tucker is spot on in recognizing modern architecture kills the spirit.

But his very first line, postmodern architecture is designed to demoralize and hurt you, paints the phenomenon as intentional. In the same way that inflation is not intelligently designed to oppress people. Neither is modern architecture. It is emergent. Yes, it is oppressive, but that's a fallout of selective pressures to build fast and cheap, irrespective of aesthetics. So for those who are very online, like myself, we've got some architecture posting. We've got a clear aesthetic worship. Somebody who himself, I mean, if you look at him, what he's got to be in the top 1% of American male physiques. He's a good looking man. Many are saying he's a good looking man. He's a good looking guy. I don't know if he was running tests or any of these others, but if that's natural, I mean, that's pretty damn good. You

got to give it to him. So he was into health. He was into obviously clean eating. If you also look at some of his posts, but I think the obvious demarcation point was this was a guy who had everything going for him. Obviously, a very high IQ individual. He gets to go to these Ivy League schools, master's computer science. Even actually in the computer science department, he was part of some fraternities and others, which indicate that he had very high grades. This is a very, very difficult field for okay, for people who are in this. He had prestigious internships for, I think he was fixing bugs in one of the Civilization games.

Yeah, some popular video games. So, I mean, look, it's a prototype, in some ways, an extremely, quote-unquote, normie individual, but also- I mean, very Bernie to Trump pipeline vibes, in my opinion. Yeah, and so he apparently, according to the police, he had quote unquote

anti-capitalist sentiments. And that's what some people are seizing on. But it's, I think maybe there's something wrong with me because I perfectly understand this guy.

Well, that's the thing. People keep saying like, oh, his politics are so incomprehensible. And maybe it's because I do the show with you and because I'm, you know, way too online or whatever.

I'm like, what are you talking about? His politics are completely, like, I, the type is very readily apparent. Right. If you're, you know, if you're in those circles, if you're online, if you know these personalities, whatever. Now, again, I do think it's worth saying all of this social media profile we're talking about, it drops off six months ago. Yeah, that's right. And that's, you know, when he goes off the grid, loses touch with all his or cuts communication with all of his friends and family as best as we know. And so we don't know what sort of intellectual or political ideological journey he was on during that time period that led him to take this extreme act. So I do want to put that caveat out there.

That's important. The other thing that I want to say, just like on a personal level, we don't know exactly what the motivation was. They have not yet released the manifesto, which, by the way, they really should release the manifesto. They're so like, you know. It's only 262 words. Klippenstein is on the case with this one, pushing them because the idea that we can't handle the truth of what he was putting out there is total and complete bullshit. I hope that the whole thing comes out so that we can read it. There is something that is circulating online that is allegedly the man, but I don't think that it actually is. There are some quotes that the media has circulated calling the health insurance industry, calling them quote unquote parasites,

taking responsibility for this action, saying he acted alone, that he's self-funded and apologizing for the harm and the chaos that he caused with saying that it was a necessary action. Those things don't appear in the manifesto that's allegedly circulating online. So I don't think it's the right one. But, you know, in any case, we don't know exactly what triggered this extreme response. I will just say I suffer with back pain for two years. I'm sure it was based on that x-ray. I'm sure it was nothing like what he was suffering. That kind of chronic pain will drive you sort of insane. I mean, it is debilitating and it's ever present. And there's, you know, especially with certain types of like nerve pain, there's really no relief from it whatsoever. One of the, an acquaintance

in Hawaii that spoke with the New York Times said that he had also expressed that he wasn't able to be like physically intimate because of the extent of this injury. So that may really have been the kind of, you know, trigger and pivot point that led him down this down. Yeah. There's also a lot of indications that he was into psychedelics and to marijuana. For example, he says, drug abuse is not a fair criteria. The most intelligent, open-minded individuals I know

manipulate and push the buttons of their psyche via specific drugs. Drug abuse should distinguish between psilocybin, marijuana, from addictive soul suckers like meth and fentanyl.

It's also a very like tech kind of vibe there. Oh yeah, 100%. Listen, I mean, you can spot this guy coming from a mile away. A lot of Michael Pollan psychedelic books. He was really into that Tim Urban book about like the woke mind virus.

Yeah, we had Tim on the show. We had Tim on, we talked to him here. Yeah, look, I mean, he was like Peter Thiel, Andrew Huberman guy. It's kind of hilarious. He was reposting Elon Musk. Look, you could see a scenario where somebody who is driven crazy by chronic pain begins like heavily abusing

psychedelics and marijuana and basically has a complete psychotic break. If you don't believe me, Alex Berenson wrote a whole great book called Tell Your Children about psychosis induced or marijuana induced psychosis or how it can actually trigger something. By the way, despite all of the widespread, you know, psychedelic stuff, one of the things that people in the quote-unquote psychonaut community will tell you is if you are predisposed to, you know, to mental illness, you shouldn't do it.

So you could easily see, I mean, all the telltale signs of a psychotic breaker there, right? You basically have somebody on the precipice, very high IQ individual, somebody who's dealing with a life-changing and pressuring situation that is like a slow burn, including pain. And then, you know, you reach this, possibly you already have some previous problems. And then six months you drop, I mean, it's crazy to drop off the grid. Your family doesn't know where you are. You're dropping out of friends' weddings. You're like gallivanting

between Hawaii and the United States. And then obviously you meticulously plan here and prepare for the assassination of a high-profile CEO. So we'll get some details about it. I will say, though, that I don't think that it's possible there was a psychotic break. I think that's entirely possible. I think it's also possible that there wasn't, that there was an ideology driving this that was sort of an ends justify the means ideology where he spun himself up into believing that by killing this person potentially he was saving more lives. And so this sort of like utilitarian calculus. You could see it with – I mean look, that's why the thing about Ted Kaczynski.

One of the biggest arguments about it is like, was he crazy or not? And it's like, well, yeah, you kind of do have to be crazy when you kill like X number of people, but it's also extremely well argued and highly rational. I don't see these two things as mutually exclusive. Well, your Japanese fascist dude, I mean, was he crazy? The anarchists in the early 1900s who were, you know, potentially bombing Wall Street and committing those sorts of violence with here and around the world. It wasn't that they were insane. It was that they were ideological extremists that believed that violence would lead to some greater good. Right.

That's not a philosophy I subscribe to. I don't think that that's correct. I think it's proven wrong over time. But I don't think it requires you to be crazy to, you know, to engage in that sort of ideological philosophizing that convinces you that this is actually the correct and moral step to take. So you could see that in Kaczynski. You were just talking about Yukio Mishima as well, somebody who long planned this thing. You can see his own ideological evolution until he eventually committed seppuku in the 1970s in his, like, attempted Japanese takeover. Yeah, so clearly the signs were all there. And, well, actually, I'm curious to see whether he pleads insanity defense or not,

because if he doesn't and he talks about it this way, he really will have, like, some sort of Ted Kaczynski-style thing on our hands. The other thing that I did want to point out before we move on is just to go back to the way that he was found. So he was apparently riding a Greyhound bus through Pennsylvania. They stop at this McDonald's for everybody to get off and have lunch. Some elderly patron there reportedly recognizes him from the police photos and calls in a tip. The police come and that's how he's apprehended.

Now, the police say they were surprised that they found him. They didn't know a name. They didn't know where he was. All of their fancy surveillance. I mean, the only thing you could say, it was like actually the hotel security camera. Yeah, that's right. That picture that probably was sufficient for someone to be able to recognize him. But all of their multi billion dollar tech and police force, et cetera, et cetera, had nothing to do with catching him. So yesterday on the show, when we were like, he may well get away with it. If it wasn't for, I don't know why he's still in Pennsylvania. Like if he had hopped on a plane and was out of the country, he would have, I think, gotten away. This is part of the issue, talking

about a high IQ individual, highly rational. It's like, bro, what are you doing with all this cash, the gun, the manifesto? In a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, which is not all that far from New York City. Like, why are you at least not in Canada? Yeah. At the very, like, maybe he was trying to, maybe he wanted to get caught, to be honest. You know, some people said maybe he did want to get caught because you still, you have a manifesto, you have all this cash, you have, what is that? It's called like a Faraday bag or something. Faraday bag, yeah. Bag that like blocks cell. Blocks like cell service. Service.

Yeah. He had that. He had the murder weapon with, like, he had ditched a backpack with the Monopoly money in Central Park. Why didn't you ditch the murder weapon there? So there are some indications that potentially at least some part of him wanted to be apprehended. Why did he give him a false ID? You don't ever give a false ID to the PD, right?

Yeah. They're going to want it and know that it's fake. Right. And if they didn't have his name, just give him a false ID? You don't ever give a false ID to the PD, right? They're going to want it and know that it's fake. So if they didn't have his name, just give me a real ID. They'd be like, okay, sir. Thanks, Mr. Mangino. We'll see you later. Because the fake ID matched up with the fake ID that he used at the hospital, which allows them to connect the adult immediately. Yeah. So anyway, there's a lot of weird stuff in terms of the story. But it is noteworthy to me. And also, I was proven correct that Eric Adams was lying out of his ass when he claimed that they knew the name, which

I guessed that they did not. And the police confirmed that they had no idea where he was. They had no idea who he was. Even all these many days later, it did not even have a name to put to him. And it's only because of this elderly McDonald's patron that they apprehended him.

I mean, yeah, I mean, in some respects, the crime totally comport with some, like, 135 IQ software engineer. And in some, you're like, dude, you're an idiot, you know, for doing a lot of this stuff. But, you know, sometimes there is the duality. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight-loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results.

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Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and see. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high.

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Regardless, it's going to be a big trial. It's going to be certainly something when we see all this. He's already, he's got quite a bit of an online fan base, I hear, in the gay community. There is, I think, in all sorts of communities, Tucker. Maybe in all female communities. Free Luigi. The gays in particular love him.

Free Luigi was trending online. There was a lot of Sopranos memes flying because of his strong Italian heritage and appearance. Well, at a certain point, maybe those will revive some 1920s discussions about immigration. I've already seen some jokes that are about that, which are pretty good. Let's all be honest. Let's all be honest. If the killer was online.

Deporting the Jago's. You know what the funny thing is? What I would really take away from this is that if you are not online, I don't recommend it, but you're going to have a very difficult time understanding this case. You really will. True. And because of how important, quote unquote, being online and online politics and all of that was to Donald Trump's victory, eventually winning the popular vote, maybe you should get online. Because at this point, online is reality. I don't know another way to put it. Now we're walking into assassinations, you know, the presidential election. I mean, even J.D. Vance, we can be honest.

I mean, in some respects, he's the most successful poster in the world. He went from an author from Yale working at some— Oh, this guy had Hillbilly Elegy on his Goodreads, too. I think he only gave it 3.5 stars, though. Fair. I think that's fair. I think it's a little insulting. I mean, what, the Industrial Society—

Lorax got 5 out of 5, which I fully support. Yeah, Lorax got 5 out of 5. He was a great anti-capitalist. That's my other thing. Luigi, you need better taste in Brooksboro. You know, you've got a lot of time on your hands now. It's time to move past Mark Manson's, you know, what is it, how to stop giving a fuck or whatever.

Let's get some deeper stuff. You're probably going to spend the next 30, 40 years of your life in prison. So you're going to need to level up your Goodreads list. Anyway, we will continue to follow the case. It's fascinating stuff. It really is. Indeed. Many twists and turns already.

Okay. Speaking of twists and turns, let's get to the nomination of Pete Hegseth for Secretary of Defense. It was looking like that confirmation process was on the rocks after a bunch of reporting about his personal life and the rape allegations coming out of California. But one of the key holdouts, Senator Joni Ernst, seems to have been brought around. Let's go and put this up on the screen. So she had a meeting with Pete Hegseth on Monday. And afterwards, she put out a statement. She said, I appreciate Pete Hegseth's responsiveness and respect for the process following our encouraging conversations. Pete committed

to completing a full audit of the Pentagon, selecting a senior official who will uphold the roles and values of our servicemen and women, because Hegseth had previously written he did not support women in combat roles, so that part was noteworthy, based on quality and standards, not quotas, and who will prioritize and strengthen my work to prevent sexual assault within the ranks. As I support Pete through this process, I look forward to a fair hearing based on truth, not anonymous sources. She said, so, you know, that's very significant because part of what is going on with Joni Ernst here is, I think, a genuine concern about, you know, some of the allegations against Pete Hegseth, a genuine concern because she herself is a military veteran and she also is herself a

sexual assault survivor. So I think there was some genuine concern there. But also part of what's going on is that Joni Ernst was also a potential candidate for the slot. So, you know, there was a little self-interested motive there as well. What's more likely?

Real concern or politician who wants to level up? It can be both. Yeah, sometimes things are convenient. It can be both. Again, this is someone who served the country

and who herself is a survivor and I'm sure wants to see other women be able to continue to serve in some of the roles that she did, et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, it looks like due to partly a massive online right-wing bullying campaign against her, she has capitulated and is now saying that it looks likely she will support him. So that was a big barrier for him. So that was a big barrier for him. You know, I still think, you know, he may lose. Like, I don't think Collins and Murkowski have committed to supporting him. Yeah, but he's got 53. He only needs 50. Exactly. And so that was why Joni Ernst in particular was such a key person. Well, apparently Lindsey Graham also considered joining Joni Ernst in opposing him. He doesn't like peak head sack for a number of reasons. And look, I mean,

I think it'll be interesting, actually. We can put the next one up there on the screen, quote unquote, Ron Hu, how Trump allies brought Hedsek back from the brink. I read through this this morning. It actually totally makes sense. Basically, what happened is that after Gates, they got dealt a huge blow. They see Joni Ernst here and the Senate trying to muscle and make sure that they can stand up and actually support some independents. And then really what happened is both a behind-the-scenes and a front-facing campaign to go after Joni Ernst because she's up for election in two years and make it known that if she were to sink Pete Hedges' nomination, she was going to face problems in her primary. She was going to face kind of a MAGA revolt, both online donations, but politically and professionally, her life would have been very difficult. So what they decided is

that they need to make a stand on Hegseth, because I think Hegseth was also very different than Gates. Gates, it appears, had at least four or five different no votes that were against him. Hegseth only has one. So you really only had to flip one person. I mean, Gates had a lot of, he had worked with these people. Right. And they knew him personally and disliked him. Right. Pete didn't have that. Yeah. You know, so there wasn't this like personal animus against him that was animating some of the, I think, Matt Gates. Yeah, exactly. And then also, I mean, Pete Hegseth actually is a, is a warrior in the MAGA kind of online circles in a way that Gates is, but then he didn't have the same baggage that the Congress was carrying with Matt Gates. Matt Gates also, you know, look, Pete Hegseth may have one accuser or whatever.

Matt Gates has got a whole ethics thing that would have happened. He would have had to go through an FBI background check. I mean, that was a whole other level of salaciousness and of scandal that could have followed him for a while. I think that those two things were really what sunk him. With Hegsath, I mean, look, you know, it's like you can believe him or not. But at the end of the day, it's like one person, you know, that we're talking about here in terms of the settlement and in some of the even the drinking allegations. Like, again, I'm just not going to take it seriously from some people who are blasted all the time. That doesn't mean I condone his behavior. You shouldn't drink alcohol, especially if you're in very high

positions of power. But, you know, it's like, again, to be tit-tutted by senators, some of whom I know personally and I've seen get pissed drunk, and Capitol Hill reporters, it's just so aggravating to me. But anyways, the real thing is that with Hegseth, they decided to make a stand because they know, it's not just about Hegseth at this point. If they capitulate there, then that means that Tulsi Gabbard,

RFK Jr. are now in trouble. So what's interesting is if you saw, Joni Ernst tweets out a photo just yesterday of her meeting with Tulsi Gabbard, right? Just being like, okay, basically a piece, you know, with the process. Another one was Kash Patel, because they're a little bit worried about him because of the people on the Judiciary Committee, people like John Cornyn and others who were on the fence about what exactly was going to happen. So I feel like relatively confident.

I'll give him a 65, 70% shot that he'll probably eventually get confirmation. Something else could come out. It's certainly possible. But at this point, they decided to make a stand. And so it does look like Pete Hexeth has a decent enough chance to become the next Secretary of Defense.

So I think it's been fair to report on all the, like, personal stuff, especially in the sensitive role. You worry about blackmail. You worry about what else could come out, et cetera. So I'm not saying

that that's illegitimate. But Michael Tracy's making a very good point about this, which is all this focus on his drinking and his love life and all these things has either distracted or just the media is not really that interested in what his actual ideology is. And so Michael Tracy, as he does, has been digging deeply into things he said over the years about, you know, his supposed positioning as a quote-unquote recovering neocon, when this evolution happened, is it legit, etc. And I really recommend I could put this piece up on the screen. I really recommend this piece to you because Michael Tracy

listened to his speeches, read his books, watched his podcast appearances to try to track his actual evolution, if he has indeed engaged in some sort of an evolution, because he's sort of painted as this, you know, America first revolutionary, who's going to have this completely different ideology and position the American military and, you know, potentially sort of rule back American empire, et cetera. And there isn't a lot to really base that on. He was he came to prominence for his Iraq war advocacy. He was, you know, a leader of groups that their whole mission was to promote candidates who continue to back the Iraq war.

He, you know, in the Ukraine war, continued to support this, like his position was Joe Biden was not being hawkish enough vis-a-vis Ukraine. Now, again, these are positions that he's switched on. But I also think it's important, as you said before, Sagar, like, OK, after the fact, after consensus congeals and it's safe, it's one thing to oppose the wars. It's another thing to have opposed these wars when it was difficult and when it was unpopular and when it perhaps went against the grain of your party and your peers. There's no record of that with Pete Hegseth. The other thing is, even with regard to Iraq, it's hard to pin down when he actually decided that he was against the Iraq war. And judging by the public record, his conversion on the issue came after people like Jeb Bush, Hillary Clinton, certainly,

even John McCain, who, you know, at the end of his life decided, like, you know, this didn't really go all that well. Apparently, according to Tracy, Hegseth, in a podcast appearance last month with Sean Ryan was asked should we have been in Iraq at that point he replied I was a huge proponent of that at the time but in retrospect absolutely not I've been a recovering neocon for six years now so if you do the math from 2024 to six years prior that would be roughly 2018 being generous that he had this final evolution with regard to the Iraq war. So all of that is to say, just in terms of the ideology, he has kind of the vibes and the brand as some sort of revolutionary is going to have this very different approach. And I think there's

a lot of reason for skepticism about that when he has taken the neocon position even up to and including the Ukraine war. Yeah, look, I like Pete Hegseth. I think he's an ideological warrior. I think the case for Hegseth is kind of the way that you would look at any opportunistic politician who wants to be on the right side of an issue. He may not necessarily get there originally, and he may do what is quote unquote in vogue at the time. But if it's the popular consensus, he will be there. And because of his television presenting skills, he's actually very skilled at being able to switch positions

and making it not seem all that incongruent. I don't think he has a real ideology on national events. And look, I'm trying to be kind here, but the truth is, is like, the guy seems to be a bit of a follower, right? On Iraq, on Ukraine, on everything. Kind of gets dragged to where the base is and all that. It doesn't seem to have any like hardcore convictions. The only real

hardcore convictions he has are a general orientation that the Pentagon and the War Department itself no longer fight wars in a way that we are able to win. I'm fine with that. As long as that is your orientation, we can get you to the right place. You know, just listen to some of the good folks. J.D. Vance is very supportive of him, at least in terms of some of the discussions that they have had. So if Pete Hexeth does become the SecDef, I think there are a couple of things that we're going to see. One is he will not be, quote unquote, pushing his own agenda. That's very different than what I think Margot Rubio is going to do or Mike Walzer are going to do. These are actual ideologically, these are ideological neocons who have really not

changed a lot of their position and who will take orders from Donald Trump. But a lot of the other stuff in the interagency process, that is going to be very much at their discretion. Under Pete Hegsteth, I don't think that that's the case. I think that we'll be very much like he's going to be, he's going to do whatever he's told to do. I'm fine with that. The other thing that I think Pete Hegsteth will go after, which I support again, is the entire military bureaucracy, which he has long been at war with, specifically the three and the four-star general class, who are basically just HR bureaucrats now at this point. This relates and has overlap with DEI, but it's still very important for people to understand because it's way bigger than that. We're talking about basically an elevation of Lloyd Austin is the prototypical person who rises in the United States military

at this point. This person was a CENTCOM commander under the Syrian rebels program and admitted a complete failure and the funding of Al Qaeda. He is then given the job because he's black, basically, to become the secretary of defense by Joe Biden and then does nothing for four years. Has America been very successful militarily? Has the Pentagon become more ready for war since under his leadership? Absolutely not. You know, if anything, you actually see a lot of morale figures in the military. Recruitment is way down. A lot of the reasons are because of obesity, but a lot of the people don't want to join anymore. You have a crisis of patriotism, a crisis of recruitment. Morale, apparently, amongst rank and file is terrible, has been for four years. A lot of that had to do with COVID. I think Pete will be the most popular sec def with rank and file members

in like a generation. It's been years since you had anybody who maybe Mattis initially, but of course, later on turned a little bit against Trump. I think he will be truly beloved by a lot of the rank and file. And this is somebody who actually did fight. So it is interesting to watch people. And I saw an article about this. I think it was in the journal. It was called like the disgruntled veterans. And it's people like JD, Tulsi Gabbard, and Pete Hegseth, who have very ideal—what the key is is that all of them fought at a lower level whenever they were, you know, basically entry in the military and formed a general orientation. Neocon and all this other stuff is the wrong way. The way I would say it is feeling failed by your leaders. And that's why I think if you look at

Pete's past, one of the reasons that Donald Trump wanted to pick him as the VA secretary was, again, because of his popularity with the rank and file. But don't forget this. He went to war for people like Eddie Gallagher and a few others who were accused and convicted of war crimes under the UCMJ and basically got Donald Trump to issue them a pardon. And he's been somebody with the Concerned Veterans of America who has pushed a lot of acting about PTSD and others for people who have been deeply affected by their service. So to me, it's kind of like Luigi Mangione. Because I guess swim in these circles, his political orientation makes total sense to me. But for Tracy and others, even like yourselves, look, you should be skeptical. I mean, look, I think it's fair to say Pete is very pro-Israel in like a spiritual way. Like he got one of his tattoos in Jerusalem. He's like close to Huckabee

in terms of his Israel views. Yeah, that's the way I would put it. Not only, I mean, he's, this is not, this is not a dove, right? And sometimes this gets confused. And Tracy also argues, I agree with him, like the term neocon has just become completely meaningless. Because I do think by any like reasonable definition of the term, Pete Hegseth would meet the definition. He is very hawkish. He wants the military to, you know, be he is not rolling back American power. There's no like instinct towards isolationism that exists or has ever been demonstrated to exist within him.

So, yeah, is he like, you know, he's the type that will go on Fox News and talk about like, oh, the military is too woke and we got to get rid of these DEI programs and whatever. And I'm sure he will probably do some of that. And I'm sure that cultural conservatives will be happy with those efforts. But if you're expecting him to, you know, roll back our engagement in the Middle East or not get us entangled in new wars in Asia or, you know, vis-a-vis China and Taiwan, this is not the person to pin those hopes on. Maybe. I think, again, I think the best case for Pete is he's just not all that ideological and he's going to do whatever he needs to do, which I'm, again, I really think. I don't know the guy, but I will say that his whole career coming to prominence is like the thing that he fought most aggressively for for the largest part of his

career was the Iraq war and staying in the Iraq war. And his analysis of that as recently as 2016 was like similar to the sort of like Vietnam dead enders of, oh, we could have won that war if it hadn't been for the leadership class holding us back, blah, blah, blah. So that is, you know, now he says he's opposed to it. Again, coming to that position later than people like Jeb Bush. But in terms of his instincts and his ideological inclination going into any of these conflicts, it's been in favor of them and wanting to be even more aggressively engaged in all of these various.

I understand where Tracy and people like it probably drives people crazy to say, oh, these people are look, anybody who thinks that there are some leftist Howard Zinn people in the White House, you're wrong. Maybe. But there is an isolationist instinct that is part and parcel of the Republican Party that is represented in some strains and has sometimes been signaled by Donald Trump himself. And this is not that. That's all I'm saying.

As one of the people who is probably way more in that category, I have no— again, we have to estimate what our actual power is. Look at the elected and moneyed forces. Do you see anybody who is like that? The only quasi-billionaire who holds views probably even close to what I would like to see is David Sachs. And guess what he is? He's the AI cryptosaur. He's got nothing involved with this. David is a

fucking warrior, by the way. I love that dude. He's actually very ideologically consistent on these issues. You can go watch my interview with him previously about Israel and Gaza. Actual courage for somebody on the right for us to say that. What? Yeah. Hey, listen, I'm ready. I'd rather have him there than the crypto. David, I would go to bat for you, my friend. Inflating the crypto bubble. I would absolutely go to bat for David Sachs. But again, I have reality. He's the only guy who cut any checks to Donald Trump who has those views. Every, what, 99% of the other people who are cutting checks are way more like Miriam Adelson and all of this.

Well, and this is where I appreciate you because you didn't engage in the some of the delusional thinking that. But I think a lot of people were convinced by this idea that Donald Trump is, quote, unquote, anti-war. And you just have to look realistically at the, you know, the picks that he's put into place. And that was never true. It's not true now. And Pete Hegseth is not an emblem of like, you know, rolling back American involvement in any region in the world. The best case we could have under Donald Trump is that he succumbs to the instinct of just like kind of not getting involved in these things and then we don't get sucked in. I've been encouraged right now by the tweets about Syria. That's good, right? Let's stay out of it. Great. I agree. Let's do the same thing when it comes to

Iran. He said we don't want to see regime change in Iran. Wouldn't have hired Mike Waltz and Rocco Rubio if that was my position. But hey, he's the person who wants to be president. I don't give a damn if there's rhetorical bluster, whatever, as long as we don't actually get into an actual conflict. On China and Taiwan, he's actually said before, he's on direct quote, he's like, if China takes Taiwan, there's not a fucking thing that we can do about it. Direct quote, apparently, from Bob Woodward. So these are the things that he says in private. In public, we'll see. We'll see what actually happens. I mean, and that's why, yeah, I mean, I agree. I'm not going to mislead anybody and say, oh, definitely, it's 100%. It's a lock. I saw the guy get rolled on Syria, on Afghanistan.

I have full expectation that all of that could certainly happen again. I think there's a better chance than not, but I wouldn't tell anybody with certainty. I think, again, that the best case with Hegseth here is, look, a lot of DI stuff, I know you don't care. I care. I want to be gone. I want the force to be ready to fight. I think it's a disgrace what happens with a lot of these places. I don't think it's, it's not that I don't care. It's just that I don't think it's that important. And I think it's used as like, um, a lot of times, like the CFPB example is a good one with Mark Andreessen going out and cloaking what is like this, you know, pro oligarch agenda, basically in cultural conservatism. I just think it can be used as a Trojan horse for maintaining a status quo that Americans just dramatically voted against.

So it's not that I, because I think these programs are not only silly, I genuinely think they are destructive. The research shows they make people like more, have more racial animosity. They have, you know, fattened the wallets of a bunch of dishonest, like racist grifters, basically. So I feel, I do feel strongly about them. The reason that I roll my eyes when I hear people like Had Seth or Marc Andreessen or whatever using wokeness as a crutch on everything, I do feel like it can be used as sort of like a Trojan horse to smuggle in lots

of agenda items that are at times antithetical to what Trump has claimed to be about and certainly antithetical to what people thought they were getting when they voted for him. That's what I would say. Fair enough. And again, you know, with him, what I would like to see and what I think he is going to do is actually purge a lot of these HR bureaucrats from this place and actually restore it. And, I mean, we have a morale crisis already. I mean, if you guys don't want to have a draft if we ever ever get into a major war, then we need to up recruitment. And right now

it's a disaster. Yeah. Part of that is like, I mean, who wants to sign up for some of, you know, like, it's not like people, a lot of people don't feel like the, our, the Ukraine conflict or certainly what's being done in Gaza are like things that they feel proud to be involved with. Not to mention Iraq and Afghanistan at this point, it's like, you know. I'm with you. Yeah. A hundred percent. Same in terms of procurement and a lot of these other the way that we run, you know, Lockheed and all this other. It is a nightmare. That's one of the things. So look, if we could figure some of that out, I would be very happy. And the less people who are involved in the managerial class over at the Pentagon, the better off that we are. I've been reading a lot about the Pacific War these days. And oh,

my God. I mean, when you read about the country that we used to be and the country we are today, it's sickening. It's sickening what has happened here. So and at the very least, I do think that Pete Hexeth has some of those instincts. And so I am happy that he's going to get confirmed. Definitely happier than having Ron DeSantis in there, I can tell you that. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results.

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I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to Voice Over on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable,

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of valor, going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's move on to Daniel Penny. All right, so let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. Daniel Penny was officially acquitted yesterday in the quote-unquote subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely, quote-unquote sparking applause and uproar in the New York City courtroom. So for those of you who don't remember, Daniel Penny was a Marine veteran who was riding the subway in 2023, where he was involved in an incident where Jordan Neely, who was a homeless and mentally ill individual,

was on the subway and was menacing and threatening fellow passengers. Penny and another passenger felt that they needed to restrain Neely because they thought that he was going to get violent, or I think he'd already participated in some violence, when he was on the subway. Penny himself then argued that he was not liable for the voluntary manslaughter charge and then the criminally negligent manslaughter charge that was brought against him by New York City prosecutors. So for those, again, who don't remember, we have some video of the incident. Let's go ahead and play it. On all counts, on Friday, the judge overseeing dismissed the more severe charge of second

degree manslaughter, which carried a 15 year maximum sentence after the jury was on lip. Now, assistant district attorney have argued that Penny knew his actions could kill Neely, but continued to hold his humanity. The medical examiner concluded that the chokehold likely killed, chokehold did kill Neely. So as you can see, this does also trace not only to that incident of what happened, but was one of the 50 most known people who, quote unquote, needed help and were at risk in the entire city of millions. He was well known to city administrators and to others. And in fact, there are a lot of people out there who are arguing like, oh, he never should have been on the subway. He should have been in treatment and offered shelter. Well, don't forget, New York City actually did offer him treatment and did offer him shelter, and he voluntarily departed it. He clearly was a very at-risk,

mentally ill, and disturbed individual who had previously been cited in violent incidents against innocent bystanders. So this was somebody who was menacing people on the train and who was put a lot of people in a very difficult position because not only do you have somebody who is like a mentally ill vagrant who is menacing there, but the city who's had multiple opportunities and identified this person never took him into custody for his own safety and the safety of others. And so just like in that, chaos abhors a vacuum. And so what happens? You have him who's on the train, he's menacing others, and then Penny and this other bystander get involved. Furthermore, what we found out in the trial crystal, because people are blaming Penny for Neely's death, Neely was alive whenever the paramedics and others

involved arrived on the scene. They did not administer immediate treatment to him because they were afraid that he had HIV. And so they were afraid of their own, you know, risk, basically, of taking care of him. Now, look, I think there probably are procedures and others that are in place for that. But when you put that all together, it is so obvious that charges never should have been brought here against Daniel Penny. And, look, I understand this is sensitive. People are, you know, trying to say this hero, villain, et cetera. Instead, can we all just calm down and understand that this is genuinely like a major systemic failure? And that when you put people, Neely and Penny and all these other people in an impossible position, then shit's going to happen.

So instead, make sure that it doesn't happen. That's why we have governments. Why else do people in the city of New York pay 45 percent tax if not for something that is like this? So that is my kind of take on this. Yeah, my take is very similar. And maybe that's unsatisfying to people. But I just think the whole the whole situation is such a tragedy. You know, the the passenger shouldn't have been put in that position.

Yeah. Right. And I don't think Daniel Penny wanted to kill Jordan Neely. I mean, to me, that's kind of the core in terms of the legal case against him is establishing that intent. Like, did he did he have intent to kill his man? No, I think he thought he was doing the right thing. Now, I will say watching the video like it is an awful thing to watch, knowing that he ultimately dies. And you wish that, you know, the chokehold had been let up after, you know, two minutes or three minutes so that he had more of a chance to survive. I do think the paramedics, I mean, to not do, that's your job, to not do your job is really quite negligent. But, you know, I've been

in situations where you have someone who was clearly mentally ill and it was not as menacing as, you know, Jordan Neely reportedly was being, like making direct threats. But it is a scary situation. It is a frightening situation because you just don't know what this person is going to do. And I have to rely also on the other passengers who were on the train who said that they felt really threatened. Now, I do think it's disturbing the language around Daniel Penny like he's a hero. I mean, he did take a man's life, whether he intended to or not. I just think your point is the most important one, Sagar, that the whole situation is indicative of a massive system-wide failure. I mean, Jordan Neely had a long record with the city.

And by the way, the potential for violence is not a hypothetical one. He had previously been arrested for assault and he was, you know, out. He was supposed to be receiving treatment, taking antipsychotic medication. And he, you know, violated that agreement. And so that's why there was actually an arrest warrant out for him at that time. And so, yeah, I think just, you know, I think I wish he was alive today. I think he should be alive today. I think those passengers shouldn't have been put in that situation. I think Daniel Penny shouldn't have been put in that situation either. And I don't think that it makes anything better to throw Daniel Penny ultimately in prison. It doesn't change any of the systemic failures that led to this absolutely horrifying and tragic chain of events. Exactly. Don't put people in this

position. That's the whole point. And, you know, this is that's why part of it was really terrifying to to see him get prosecuted because you're just now it's truly impossible. And I think about it all the time. You know, we live here in the city and then you're in your car and somebody starts banging on the window or I mean, literally had people almost individuals who will like block your car and not let you move trying to extract money from you. What do you do? You can't do anything. I think it was. I do disagree with you there. I think it was fair. I think it was a difficult enough case that it was fair to file charges and to allow a jury of his peers to evaluate the evidence. And, you know, ultimately, I think they based on the bulk of the evidence and their inability to, you know, beyond a reasonable doubt, come to the conclusion that he was guilty of. I think the charge ultimate was manslaughter, that he was. And we can get to the way the judge handled this too, which was a little bit crazy too. But, you know, I think it was a difficult enough case and there was enough there that it was worth going through the process and having a jury of his peers evaluate the situation

and come to a decision. I do think that that was probably the right process. And I also think that they probably came to the right outcome. Yeah, but see, that's where the thing is. Like, this is a 26-year-old guy. Now, you know, he's got all these BLM activists who are calling for his assassination. What is he going to do for the rest of his life? He's got a new written house. Basically, you have two choices. You can move to Idaho and hope, you know, shave your head and hope that nobody knows who you are. I mean, he's a conservative hero. So he's got all kinds of job opportunities. When they gave him, but that's my thing. You don't want to be.

They tried to interview him. He didn't say anything. They let his lawyers. He didn't want to be in this position. So they ruined his life. Look at Rittenhouse. The guy's like hawking TPUSA books. But that's not really because charges were pressed, though.

That's because of the event itself. He was known. I mean, because they originally didn't press charges. Yeah, well. And this already was a real lightning rod case. itself. He was known, I mean, because they originally didn't press charges. Yeah. And he, you know, this already was a real lightning rod case. So in any case, I mean, I do think that this was a sort of vindication of going through the process to just to give you guys because we mentioned the judge. And I do want to say this was like a little weird the way this all played out.

So he was he had two charges against him and the jury deadlocked on the higher charge, correct? Yes. And so there was somebody who couldn't decide and they deadlocked. And so the judge sent them home and then brought them back and said, let's drop that higher charge and now just deliberate on this lower charge. And on the lower charge, they were able to come to the conclusion of not guilty. Now, you know, there was obviously a lot of social media reaction to the decision. And there was a lot of, you know, conservative activism around. They were even, you know, picking out which juror they thought was there was one that had two masks on. They're like, that must be the guy that didn't want to find him

not guilty, whatever. So I'm sure these jurors probably saw a lot of the discussion online. And actually, conservatives were initially enraged that the judge had taken this course of action. Yeah, because they thought that the judge was pushing, and this may have been the case, by the way, was pushing to get a guilty, a finding of guilty against Daniel Petty. And then ultimately goes in the other direction. And who knows whether jurors taking in that social media firestorm over the weekend impacted the way that they were viewing the facts and the evidence. But I do think it's fair to say like the way that the judge handled it, it's not like illegal or anything, but it does raise questions about whether they were able to maintain the impartiality that is the goal of these sorts of jury trials. Yeah. And the situation is crazy because it was very obvious from the judge that he was trying

to get them to just come to a conclusion on the secondary charge. And they were probably, you know, apparently what happens in these situations is like, well, we can't be deadlocked again. They're really pressing us for a decision. And let's say on the original one, at least some of the reporting I'd seen, there was speculation that actually a majority wanted to find him not guilty on the higher charge, but there was like one holdout. Well, that person finally probably- Capitulated. I mean, but that's why this whole situation is crazy. Like, why is the judge, you know, basically making this discretion to drop a charge, you know, from these prosecutors file, the judge allows them to all in the context of resolution, right? And

it's like, well, if the jury is deadlocked and the jury's deadlocked, it happens all the time. You know, I was not, I think it's crazy the amount of power some of these judges have with the sentencing or with others. I learned some of this about the whole Menendez case when I was learning about that. And like a judge can just be like, oh, your entire defense, which got you a mistrial last time. Nope. You know, that's out the window. And then you tell the jury, like, you have to narrowly consider based on this. You can't consider anything else.

And then they have no choice but to vote guilty, which they didn't even want to do. I think it's complicated, though, because the other the argument in the other direction is like when you have these, you know, mandatory minimums and free strikes rules and whatever. Then even in situations where people would look at it and be like, you know, this is every case and every crime is very different. And so if you take all of the discretion out of the judge's hands, then you don't allow for any of that, like, variability and context and all of that to be factored in. So it is complicated. Like, I can kind of see the case in both directions. But to your point, Sagar, I mean, one of the things egregious that I noted in terms of the power of these judges and how corrupting it could be. And also, by the way, so many of these judges, when you talk about corporate cases and white collar crime, so many of them have conflicts of interest based on their, you know, whatever stock holdings and investments and their, you know, spouses, positions, etc. But putting that aside, the new Twitter terms of service require you to agree that if you have a beef with X, then you're going to go through arbitration in this one specific court in Texas that has been very favorable to Elon Musk and his interest. And he basically sees this as like, you know, his personal company court. So there is a problem with it, for sure.

There is a problem with it. And that's my point, is that, you know, it's literally known as judge shopping in the business context. So anyway, I don't know. Always when I come away from this, you look at the systems that are in place. You look at the way that New York City basically failed Neely, failed Daniel Penn. And really, look. The mental health piece is really the think about this. You know, how many people on the set you've been on the subway at probably 5 a.m.,

just like I have in the past. These are some hardworking people. OK, these are people who are coming in hour long commute to go clean office buildings and to be restaurant service or whatever, so that when the suits show up, that they can come in and get served. And then the same thing if you're on the subway at 10 or 11 o'clock at night, sure, there's some people who are going out or whatever. But by and large, these are very, very hardworking folks. They pay a ton in taxes. Nobody wants to be on the train for an hour and all of that. The very least you could probably guarantee them is some safety. And in the last several years, every time you go to New York, the explosion of just like mentally ill, vagrant violence and just presence is shocking. And it's one of those where you're paying more than anything.

These people are being menaced on a daily basis, fear for their lives. It is not right. And especially not right because the rich people all just leave. They move to New Jersey or Florida. Or they're in Ubers or private cars. Yeah, or in an Uber, right? So they can afford it. It's the janitors, the bartenders, all of the other people who are service workers in New York, those are the people who have suffered. They have no other option.

And they're forced to pay more in tax and to have a subpar experience, especially as the train gets delayed and all this, and be menaced and not safe. So, it's just not right. And it's not right for them. And it's not right for the people who it's not right for the, you know, the people who have basically been abandoned, you know, the Jordan Neelys of the world as well. And, you know, our mental health, I'm actually talking a little bit about this. I touch on it in my monologue today. But yeah, our mental health system is really quite atrocious and rife with abuse and neglect. And a lot of these psych wards are for-profit hospitals that are just, you know, they don't want to deal with the most difficult cases, certainly. I also do think that in some instances we've gone, it's important that people with mental

health issues obviously deserve human rights and autonomy, et cetera. But you also have to have the ability when you have someone who has a track record of being a danger to others like Jordan Neely did have, that you have the ability to detain them, even if it is against their will. And, you know, I think that there was a move that went too far in the direction of not allowing those type of holds to occur. And you couple that with there just literally are not enough beds in psychiatric hospitals. And the fact that, you know, because we have such a terrible healthcare system,

people are completely disconnected from any sort of medical attention or care. And all of these systemic issues just sort of, you know, came to a head in this absolutely horrific and tragic incident. That's right. Camp Shane, one of America's longest running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children.

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