Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 12/12/24: New Jersey UFOs Stump Pentagon, Car Insurance Skyrockets, Rogan Slams Health Insurance CEOs, Media Hides Manifesto

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

Ryan and Saagar discuss New Jersey UFO's stump Pentagon, car insurance skyrockets inflation, Rogan slams health insurance CEOs, media caught hiding Luigi manifesto. To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.com   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator,

and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now.

Let me hear it. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastain.

And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at BreakingPoints.com. Good morning, everybody.

Happy Thursday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. Ryan, you're here. Morning, Sagar. It's extra amazing. Bro show. People live for the pound, as they always say. We've got a great show for everybody today.

Let's see. Let me see the bar, folks. This is the toughest part of the job. New Jersey, we're going to kick it off with these drones. Now, note, it is not just because I am hosting the show today just with Ryan. I'm not the one who pushed this. I consider doing other things, but I genuinely is the craziest story. What else can we do?

It's the craziest story in the country. Nobody in the mainstream media is taking this seriously. We literally have literal unidentified flying objects all over the state of New Jersey, acknowledged by the United States government, by the New Jersey state police, by the governor of the state, by lawmakers, by residents. Many of them have been spotted over U.S. military installations or a flurry of more drone sightings just last night. So what the hell are these? You know, according to our government, we don't know. So we're going to tell you everything that we do know about the situation. If anything, we're going to rule a bunch of things out and I will allow you to make up your mind for yourself of what you think they are. Inflation, we're going to talk about that. Shocking new

numbers around eggs and auto insurance. Inflation remaining troublingly high, 13% spike in a single month just in auto insurance. We're going to dig into why. It's kind of interesting. We're going to talk about Luigi Mangione, the alleged United CEO killer who has now been taken into custody and is fighting extradition to the state of New York. There have been some interesting, again, social fallout of that situation. Ryan, comedians, Bill Burr, Joe Rogan, a few others weighing in. It's become a real cultural touchpoint. Then we're going to have an interview with Ken Klippenstein. He's going to join us. He's the one who made the decision to publish the manifesto. And he's going to give us some

background where he actually has revealed that there is some tacit agreement between the police and the mainstream media to not release the manifesto. So we're going to talk about when it's okay to release manifestos, when not. He had a little New York Times scoop. That's right. He's got some scoop on what's going on inside the New York Times. Insane. Yeah, they don't want to post a picture up there. Too hot for TV. It's like, okay. All right. Well, anyway, we are going to figure out why, what the hell is going on. We've got some other interesting stories about Syria, even though it's titled Ukraine.

It appears the Ukrainian government sent some advisors to Al-Qaeda to actually help topple Bashar al-Assad's regime. Interesting. Enemy of my enemy is my friend, as they said in the World War II era. And we're also going to talk about an extraordinary clip from CNN in which they claim to have filmed somebody being frayed from Syrian prisons. Very dramatic. It was very emotionally heart-wrenching, if you take it seriously. There's some questions, though, around the circumstances of all of that. And then independent Senate candidate Dan Osborne, who outperformed almost all the Democrats in the entire country. Yeah, what is it? Literally all of them. In the entire country. He will join Ryan and I for an interview. So I'm excited to talk to him. We've been wanting to get him here on the show now for quite some time. And I know he's somebody who a lot of you have been very

interested in. Nobody's asked him for his opinion on retrospectives for the DNC or for any of the others. Yes, I understand he's an independent, but we're going to ask him about the things that he ran on, some of the lessons and other things from this election, which possibly he could be a bright spot there. So before we get to that, though, thank you to all of our premium subscribers. Really appreciate you joining us here and joining the program and taking part in helping us build something for the future. A premium sub pitch. Emily and I yesterday interviewed an American citizen who went to fight ISIS in Syria. That's right, you did. That interview was absolutely fascinating. One reason we got the interview, the reason we got the interview is that he loves breaking points. I love it.

And the week before, we got Brooke, who was the sex worker turned whistleblower, because she loves breaking points. There you go. We have a very cool audience. Yeah, we really do. Diverse audience. So that will be out later today if you're a premium sub, so get that. And then a quick update on the book campaign. I have mine now,

Rayfatt Alarier's If I Must Die. You have until Saturday to buy this and have it still count toward the New York Times bestseller list. I have been told by a source in the publishing industry that there's a, quote, high probability that it actually will make the list. How many copies did they sell already? So they printed 7,500. They completely sold those out within hours. So in normal times, that's enough to hit the list. How many copies did they sell already? So they printed 7,500. They completely sold those out within hours. So in normal times that's enough to hit the list. In normal times that's enough. Now it's December, so it's holiday season. Everybody's buying a lot of books.

So we're guessing 15K is definitely on there. And I think we're at 12 or 13 already. And today's Thursday. I think you hit top 10. There's no way you don't. I think he's going to make it. That's a lot of books, just so everybody understands.

What is the average book in this country sell? Like 50 copies? Five copies or something. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the publishing industry is kind of like this, folks. It's very interesting. If you can sell 5,000 copies, that's like you made it. Yes, major publishers are like, sweet, you sold 5,000 copies.

We've recouped our investment. Yeah, the book business is a real racket. But maybe I'll do a monologue on that at some point. So there you go. You only have a couple more days. We'll have a link down in the description. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's

facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long.

You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind VoiceOver, the movement that exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself

outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other.

It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable,

showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself, and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage from Pushkin

Industries and iHeart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor, going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. With all of that, let's get to these New Jersey drones, folks. First, let's start with the video. Shall we put it up there on the screen? We've confirmed

some of the video that we are about to show you, so let's go ahead and play it as I talk over it. What you're seeing there is Bergen County, New Jersey. So yeah, you can just see blinking lights that are in the sky. At least some of these drones were originally thought to be unidentified. However, at least one or two of them were known and later identified as a small passenger aircraft. But many of these images that have been coming out have now been observed, again, all over the state, multiple different counties in the state of New Jersey,

Bedminster, New Jersey. Obviously, it's a bit concerning because that's where President-elect Donald Trump's New Jersey golf course is as well. But in reality, you're also seeing these drones, which appear to have lights and to be flying in groups as well, not only there but over multiple U.S. military installations. And I will get to the confirming of that in a little bit. Now, as I just set this up, as we said, there's been multiple days now of investigation into these drones. Some, you know, we knew were small passenger aircraft, but there's just literally not enough small passenger aircraft, especially at night, that are usually registered and confirmed and others, to know that this is explicitly not what they are. So they are something, right?

We know that they're not, at least according to the United States military, they're not U.S. military assets. We believe at some point now that they are not U.S. – they are not foreign assets, as was speculated. We'll get to that. People were saying, oh, it's Iran. Yes. But what we do know are some shocking comments here from the state of New Jersey's governor, Phil Murphy, who actually deployed state assets to try and intercept some of these drones. And here's what he had to say. The minute we get eyes on these drones, they go dark. Let's take a listen. I don't blame people for being frustrated. Let me say most importantly, right up front, we see no evidence. And I say we, this includes Homeland Security, FBI, Secret Service, our state police, authorities at all

levels of government. The most important point to say is we don't see any concern for public safety. That's number one. Number two, having said that, it's really frustrating that we don't see any concern for public safety. That's number one. Number two, having said that, it's really frustrating that we don't have more answers as to where they're coming from and why they're doing what they're doing. We had last night 49 sightings. I think 20 of them were over 100. Now those include, I think I saw one mistaken, a fixed-wing aircraft, a plane, a small Piper Cub, for instance,

for a drone, or you saw one and that counts. And then I saw the same one and that counts. So we think these are overstated, but it's a non-zero number. I was on with the White House and Homeland Security leadership literally at the very top yesterday, pretty much all day. I'm hoping we'll get answers sooner than later. I would just ask folks to continue to let the FBI or their local law enforcement know when they see something, and we'll continue to do everything we can with our federal partners to get clearer answers. Why is it so hard to get answers? These are apparently, as I understand it, very sophisticated.

The minute you get eyes on them, they go dark. And, you know, we're obviously most concerned about sensitive targets and sensitive critical infrastructure. So we've got military assets. We've got utility assets. We've got the president-elect's one of his homes here. This is something we're taking deadly seriously. We've gotten good cooperation out of the feds, but we need more. And that was my plea.

How much longer do you think you're going to get it out? I don't know, but if we have news, I'll let you know. The minute we know something, I'm not going to hide it under a bushel. Governor, you're going to have people saying, you know, I saw a drone in and it was spraying spraying something or I saw a drone crash in my yard and it set off an alarm when I tried to go near it. There's a lot of fear amongst New Jersey residents. I mean, what is your message? Well, the message I just gave, but by the way, we're not aware of any nefarious drone that has crashed or if there is one that's crashed, could someone please call me and let me know where that is? There are a couple of rumored downings for one reason or another. One of them was a toy.

The other one was never found. But having our hands on equipment that's on the ground would be helpful. Okay, so I think we can say at least this is not a crank incident, Ryan. This is something being taken very seriously. By the way, that was just three days ago, and the situation has gotten even worse with drone sightings, or multiple, as I said, that happened just last night. So this is pretty shocking stuff. You've got the state of New Jersey says the moment that we get eyes on them, they go dark. This is really something that fits with a lot of previous UAP incidents for people who have been following

them. And in terms of the characteristics, I'll just break it down because a lot of these have the same ones. First and foremost is this. Number one, over a military base. Number two, traveling in groups. Number three, no military or civilian explanation for what's going on. And then number four, which we're about to get to,

is wild rumors circulating to cover up the real explanation, which is we have no earthly idea. We have no earthly idea. We have no earthly idea. Separate from my favorite part of that was where the guy's like, what's your message to people in New Jersey? He's like, the message is what I just said. Yeah. Next.

So how is the UAP community reacting to this? Because I'm not in that community. And I'm like, okay, let's go. Well, for us, something's up. Yeah. This is a pattern. This is a recognizable pattern, multiple incidents. It fits with multiple reports of pilots and of other US Navy assets and others that have all talked about this. It's just the most high profile because it's over a populated center. Now, sticking with that, we have some testimony here from somebody who actually encountered one of these drones.

Let's take a listen. I know in my own personal experience, I was driving home from a friend's house, passing by Flanders Valley Golf Course, and I saw a drone that looked like the size of a small car just hovering right above the golf course. And I tried to get a picture of it, but you know how it is, the lights, it's kind of hard to get a true image out of it. But it's honestly kind of been a little comical too as well because people come in here with all their conspiracies and all their own ideas of what could be happening. And it is nice in a coffee shop environment to talk about it. So you were telling me that some of these drones are as large as a car.

Some are as small as the more conventional drones. What do they sound like and what are they moving like when you do see them? See, sometimes it's hard to really get a true idea of what they sound like because some of them are very high up, looks like like 10,000 feet, and then others could be around 500 feet. So the larger ones, I have seen stories and I have heard that it could sound like a helicopter, while the small ones, when they're high up, you can't really hear anything at all. Can't really hear anything at all. Now, keep in mind in terms of the FAA, everybody says, oh, these might be civilian drones, might be a couple of other people. The technology does not fit with that. First and foremost is a ban, right, on flying drones at

night. So there's that. I know there's complicated rules, something about line of sight, but the higher ones, they wouldn't even fit with that. So there's number one. Number two is that these have been investigated now at the state level, at the federal level, and now at the military level. And so, for example, from the FBI saying, quote, they have no idea what these drones are. Let's take a listen. You're telling me we don't know what the hell these drones are in New Jersey are? Is that correct? That's right. It's crazy. I mean, that's crazy. That's madness that we don't know what these drones are. That was from the United States Congress, where an FBI agent there was testifying.

Now let's get to the wild rumors, shall we? So in the vacuum of all of this information, people always come out and they start hearing things from people, right? Some of those people are congressmen. Now yesterday, Congressman Jeff Vandrew, most famous, I think, for switching from Democrat to Republican, took to Fox News airwaves and made a wild claim that these drones are actually Iranian drones that are coming from a, quote, mothership off of the U.S. East Coast. Let's take a listen. Well, here's the real deal, Harris. You know, I'm also on the Transportation Committee, on the Aviation Subcommittee, and I've gotten to know people. And from very high sources, very qualified sources, very responsible sources, I'm going to tell you the real deal. Iran launched a mothership probably about a month ago that contains these

drones. That mothership is off, I'm going to tell you the deal. It's off the east coast of the United States of America. They've launched drones. Everything that we can see or hear. And again, these are from high sources. I don't say this lightly. Now, you know, we know there was a probability it could have been our own government. We know it's not our own government because they would have let us know. It could have been some really glorified hobbyist or hobbyists that were doing something unbelievable. They don't have the technology. All right. So I have a number of questions. First question. When can we do war with Iran? Yeah. First of all, does this fit with wanting to go to war with Iran? Yes. Number two, mothership? Really? The Iranian Navy, the vaunted

blue water Iranian Navy has the capacity to come all the way to the U.S. East Coast. We never saw their ship. And to be able, yeah, nobody on open source was able to track it. The U.S. Navy wasn't, NORAD and all these others weren't involved. Maybe it's a hovering nuclear power. Right. So it's like, and then that mothership, drones are allowed to fly back and forth from said mothership now for multiple weeks without anybody spotting it, yeah, go ahead and color me skeptical. These are very responsible sources. Yeah, very responsible, very respectable.

Listen, I mean, and by the way, look, this is super annoying for the congressman to do this because I genuinely think it is irresponsible. There's not a single scrap of evidence to back up what he said. By the way, he did walk it all back later, and he was like, well, I said it could be Iranian. It's like, no, bro, we just played the tape. That's not what he said. That's not what he said. Nothing authoritative has ever followed. I serve on the Transportation Committee. Yeah, right. By the way, I serve on the Transportation Committee. Get out of here. Okay. All right. Biggest joke committee in all of Congress. That they let anybody from New Jersey on the Transportation Committee is appalling. Yeah, you're right. Exactly right.

Okay. So yeah, especially if anybody's been on the turnpike. All right. So then finally, we get a Pentagon press conference where they're asked about all of this. And they said two very important things. Number one, what the Congress was saying is totally not true. But the most important one is this. According to our assessment, it is not a foreign military asset. Let's take a listen.

Representative Jeff Van Drew, who is a Republican from New Jersey, was just on the air saying that Iran launched a mothership probably about a month ago that contains these drones and that that mothership is off the coast of the east coast of the United States. Is there any truth to that? There is not any truth to that. There is no Iranian ship off the coast of the United States and there's no so-called mothership launching drones towards the United States. All right. No mothership, no drones. They also said it is not a foreign U.S. military asset. It basically only leaves two options. One is we have no idea, and the other is that it's a U.S. military drone. I mean,

I guess it's theoretically possible that it is and that they're not telling us, but there are a lot of weird things that continue to stack up against it. So for example, can we put A9 please up on the screen? This is a statement from U.S. North Command. Now U.S. North Command says that they have, quote, conducted a deliberate analysis of the events in consultation with other military organizations and interagency partners. At this time, we have not been requested to assist with these events. So, according to them, this is the military, right, responsible for U.S. North Command and U.S. Home Defense, as well as Canada. And they tell us, no, we've done an analysis here, and we've said that we have not even been requested to deal with any of this. That's part of the reason why I don't think it's Iranian. And the other funny thing is, whenever you continue to read, Brian, and you see part of the reason why I don't think it's Iranian. And the other funny thing is,

whenever you continue to read, Brian, and you see some of the statements, they're referring to it as a, quote, local law enforcement matter. But then when you talk to the state and the state troopers and others, and including the governor of New Jersey, he's like, guys, airspace is not us. That's a federal matter. So there's a lot of finger pointing going on. And I think that the answer is they don't know. That's the terrifying part. And look, again, we are not dealing with just one or two. We've got multiple verified videos, got multiple incidents. We've got the freaking governor who says that every time a helicopter tries to get close to these things, they go, quote unquote, go dark. You don't think the Patterson Police Department can handle it? Yeah, right. The Patterson Police Department. They're totally unable to do all of this. And

the other thing is, is that you have multiple sightings across multiple different domains. So let's go ahead and put A8, please, on the screen. This is from New Jersey Media. I mean, they exhaustively list here all of the counties where these drone reports have happened. I mean, we're talking about all over the state, but one of the things that really caught my eye yesterday was actually a statement that came out of Naval Air Station Earl. And what they said is, quote, we are aware of the reports of increased drone activity in New Jersey and are actively monitoring the situation. We have received reports from our neighboring communities and law enforcement, but here's this, quote, we can confirm at least one instance of an unidentified drone

entering the airspace above Naval Weapons Station Earl. Above Naval Weapons Station Earl. So you have here, that's on the record from the United States military. Unidentified object that was flying above the Naval Station Earl. Unidentified flying object. An unidentified object that was flying above the Naval Station. Above the Naval Station. An unidentified flying object. An unidentified flying object that was flying over Naval Station Earl. So you can take it. Let's just call him UFO for short.

You can call it a UFO. Call it a UFO if you want to. So listen, I mean, look, I've only given people the facts here. You can make up your own mind. I mean, I think the real thing that we could take away from this is the feds just don't know. They have no clue. Or they're hiding something colossal. There's some secret government.

But, you know, everybody always thinks that it could be some secret government program. But it would be pretty stupid to have a secret government drone program to be flying all over one of the most populated and dense areas in the entire United States. Ignite a local panic. You have the governor of the state of New Jersey. I think the mayors of every town in New Jersey convened yesterday for a meeting. Many of the mayors came away from it. Some of them had drove up to three hours and were like, we didn't learn anything from this. They basically just said the same thing.

We have no idea what's happening. You could have done this on Zoom. That's what they said. State legislators said, I don't know. We have no clue about what's happening here. They keep saying that we need more federal resources to tell us what's said. State legislators said, I don't know. You know, we have no clue about what's happening here. They keep saying that we need more federal resources to tell us what's happening. And interestingly, the president has been briefed. Yes. Okay. The president has limited amount of time. And this president has extra limited amount of time. He's got 10 to 4 or

whatever. He's doing nothing. All right. He's going to take photos at Christmas parties. That's about what he's got right now. So this rose to his level. We've got, I believe it's A7. Yeah. A7. Let's go ahead and play it. So we are certainly aware, the president is aware. So we're closely tracking the activity and coordinating closely with relevant agency, including DHS and FBI, to continue to investigate these incidents. I don't have anything beyond that to share. Obviously, this is something that DHS and FBI are tracking very, very closely. And so I would have to refer you to share. Obviously, this is something that DHS and FBI are tracking very, very closely. And so I would have to refer you to them directly. There you go. The president

has been briefed. They are monitoring the situation. You can take it for whatever you will. You know, that's all we've got so far, folks. And, you know, even as I continue to scour, I don't see the national media really taking this seriously at all. But if you consider it at a base, and this is part of the reason why many lawmakers who, when you strip apart the stigma and people calling you crazy, at a baseline level, it's crazy to have things that are flying around in your airspace and you don't know what they are. Multiple congressmen and others have said, they said, we have reports of these things over US military installations. We have reports of them interfering with equipment. We have reports of sailors and airmen who have no idea what to do.

They're afraid or they just simply, it's a threat to them because things are going around in your airspace without any knowledge of it. And this is perhaps the most high profile example that we've had in years now of something that is like this happening. It's already in the national media. I think it's trying to memory hole it. And I think the main reason why is it's embarrassing and it's difficult, right, to tell a story and just have the conclusion of. You don't know the answer. I don't know.

Nobody knows. But any time. They're completely, you know, they have zero idea. All we have are little, little data points. And if there are unidentified objects flying over the remains of Ivana Trump, that's important stuff. I mean, you joke, but this is the president-elect's golf compound. I think he's going to be there for Christmas, something like that. Or possibly he's in New York today.

I know that at the New York Stock Exchange. So what does that mean? Probably he'll be sopping off at Bedminster. And then you have these drones that are flying around that are up there. We have U.S. military installations that don't know what's happening. Naval air stations. You have reports here from the governor of the state. And then you had so many incidents that happened just last night, apparently, where multiple other residents and others are reporting them to

authorities. So if you see anything, if you see anything, just let us know. If you can, post the video, report it to your local authorities, and we'll continue to monitor the situation. It's totally crazy stuff. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that

camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024.

Voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high.

And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to Voice Over on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable,

showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself. And I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice.

These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's move on to inflation. This is a really crazy story, Ryan, and potentially could be, you know, it's going to be an issue there for Donald Trump. This is one of the main reasons why he won the presidency. Let's put this up there on the screen. Quote, unquote, strengthening inflation poses challenge for Trump and for the Fed. So inflation actually ticked up

this month, 2.7%. Quote, assigned to that path to bringing down price pressures remains bumpy. Quote, unquote, progress on bringing down inflation stalled in November. CPI ticked up 2.7% increase. But it's the prices of consumer goods that are really jacking things up right now. Quote, everything from cars to living room furniture, excluding food and energy, increased at the fastest month-over-month pace in a year and a half, largely led by a jump in vehicle prices. That was partly because drivers were replacing damaged cars and trucks after recent devastating hurricanes, but also the rise is notable because the prices for many goods had been falling for about a year through August and now

appears to have been reversed. One of the ways that you can really look into this is that it's in the core areas in terms of making everyday life more expensive whenever you see the actual dig into the numbers. Let's put this up there from the Washington Post. And I'm going to read here. This is actually really crazy. So what they show is that with eggs and with auto insurance in particular, food prices, which weighed heavily on Americans, rose 0.4% over the month. But prices for meat, fish, poultry, and eggs rose 1.7%. Beef price increased 3% and are up 5% on the year. Eggs are up 8.2% and are up 40% on the year. Gasoline up by

0.6%, but still down some 8% from the year ago, period. It's the auto insurance that really stuck out to me because what you saw in that number, Ryan, was a 13.7% or sorry, 12.7% increase in auto insurance in just a single year. And this is really shocking because what it shows is that not only is the price of carrying a car up significantly, but the price of the car itself is also up significantly. And then you consider that rates are still very high, so the car loans themselves. So you now have a situation where average car payment is going to rocket up from the price of the car, the rate of the car, and now the physical carrying costs with auto insurance. And one of the really sad parts about this is – I talked a lot about this in terms of families – is that, you know, now it used to be like you had your 16-year-old kid, everyone was annoyed because like, oh, it jumped from $120 to $400. Nowadays, you would be praying

and wishing for a $400 insurance payment just for you and your wife, all right, or you and your husband. Nowadays, it's like $500 to $2,000 of what that jump is. It's absolutely shocking. Yeah. The days where the 16-year-old, like when I was 16, I scraped together $1,700. I got $500 from a car accident I was in, and I was working at a side job. You got flushed. Yeah. For $1,700700, was able to get a Honda Accord used as hell. And that was very normal. Yes. Even for lower income people, for teenagers to be able to, and then, yeah, the insurance is a little more because you're a terrible driver. And it should be more because you're a danger on the roads just as much as a 95-year-old, maybe even more so.

But it was affordable. This is getting unaffordable for the average middle class family at this point. And at CounterPoints, we were flagging this more than a year ago. And actually, a piece you read there is a nice little vindication. We can put it up there. People that were dunking on me about pointing out that all the storms and the floods were driving a significant amount of the auto insurance credits. People are like, what? That's crazy. That's impossible. No, dude. What do you think happens when you get much more hail than you used to get? Hail destroys cars. That's a couple thousand bucks to get that fixed. Flooding, more than that, yes, because it's destroying the

whole body. Flooding, your car gets filled with water. How much do you think that costs to get fixed? Western North Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, all of these places getting whacked with storms. And that's before we're talking about all the tornadoes. And as costs of cars rise, then the cost of fixing them rises. Yes. And there's also then, and this requires a lot more investigation, but there is something Dave Dayen's outlet would be good at looking into. Maybe we'll team up with him on that. Private equity is like buying up a whole bunch of car dealers and rolling up the auto repair industry. And so what private equity does when they buy up, say, medical facilities, they figure

out how to up code to insurance companies and Medicare. And all of a sudden, they're extracting a whole lot more money out of these insurance companies, whether it's Medicare or private insurance. They're doing the same thing with auto insurance. And so they're figuring out how do we maximize what we can get out of this insurance company. Meanwhile, the car makers themselves are making everything automated. So every time you roll in now and you've got, you know, you might have your tire pressure might be low. Yeah.

In the old days, like just a couple years ago, you go in and you fill up your tire. Now they're like, we got to run the system because we got to do something about that code. And that's like 100 bucks. Interesting. And then they find something else. And it's like, auto mechanics have always been good at figuring out ways to charge you more. But private equity takes that to an exponential new level. Right. And then the insurance company is like, okay, well, we're raising prices by 13%. The price of this is actually shocking because put that New York Times tear sheet

up there on the screen. I'm going to read a little bit from this. B3, please. So what they talk about in here is about the, quote, era of the $20,000 family car insurance bill. And they quote one particular woman who said that she called to add her 16-year-old

to her car insurance. She drives a 2018 Subaru. And the representative casually informed her, her annual premium would go from $1,700 to over $5,000. They say, quote, it turns out she has it pretty good. There are plenty of families with three or four children whose annual premiums will top $20,000 this year. That can be enough to replace one of the cars that the entire policy covers. Quote, how can this be? It's the insurance industry, which means it's complicated, unpredictable, and more or less mandatory, especially because you literally have to have insurance to be able to drive. Go ahead. One other vicious cycle that's going on here, and you see this all over the country,

and I bet people are confronting this. The more that prices rise, the more unaffordable it becomes, the more people are uninsured. Yes. Because they just can't make the bills. I was about to get to that. And then, boom, uninsured people, that raises the price for everybody else. So we have a critical mass of uninsured population. Some of it is immigration related, apparently.

That's what a lot of people are speculating around the large number of people who are here illegally and largely drive without a license. That's legit analysis. It's true. I mean, it's just at a basic level. You have 20 million people who are illegally. 10 million people are probably driving. All of them legally are uninsured because this is admitted by them and by social scientists and others. So if you're getting into a car accident, that's number one.

Number two, that's a tale as old as time in Texas. Everybody in Texas has got a story. Getting rear-ended by a guy and he's like, oh, sorry, I don't have insurance. Drives away, yeah, I'll pay you some cash, whatever. This has been going on for 25 years. Since I was a kid, I remember hearing stories about this. Now the whole country gets to experience what we in Texas got to grow up with. Second, though, is the rise actually, and this is why I think, you can't just blame it all on immigration. A lot of this has to do with cars. And I didn't think about this. But the nicer the cars become, the more expensive they are to fix.

And what I mean by that is that even the baseline models of a lot of cars these days, they've got the rear end sensors and all that stuff. Well, it used to be when you crash or let's say somebody side swipes you and they hit your side, okay, you just have to replace the piece of metal. You go to a junkyard. I used to just go to a junkyard. Exactly. You have the famous, you know, you have the door that doesn't match everything else. Yes, exactly. Looks like shit, but whatever.

I had that. But now you have that. It needs a sensor. And it has that and it's wired to the computer. And so whenever that happens, you actually have to replace three or four different things. Also, electric vehicles. There's a famous story of a Rivian. A Rivian got involved in a rear end or something, and it cost $40,000 to fix because it's not just the sensors.

It was something about the way that the car itself is configured, and needed a brand new you might as well totaled it to be honest but that's the point is that in basic fender benders and other small accidents is that as the cars get nicer first of all more expensive but second really is nicer more complex with a lot more and sensors the way they crumple right so there's a crumpling is good for the human yes bad for the bad for the car. Bad for the car. So there's a lot of different things that are going on in terms of that. Second is also something that was flagged to me by somebody in the insurance industry.

Let's put this up there on the screen. I don't know how much of this is true. This could be coked by them, but I thought I would mention it anyways. It says, quote, the big impact of, quote, unquote, social inflation on small and mid-sized commercial auto insurers. And it says the term social inflation brings to mind jury trials and multi-million dollar verdicts, often claims for involving serious injury for the claimant. But the effects of social inflation go beyond these headline-grabbing cases. The whole dynamic of social inflation that leads to verdicts has trickle-down effects that can impact any claim, including basic auto injury,

for something as benign as a sprained ankle. This means that even small and mid-sized companies with relatively small auto liability exposure can and do pay the price. Commercial auto claim severity has now risen 72% since 2013, with a median annual increase of 6.3%. Economic and social inflation are big culprits behind the increase, contributing to some $96 billion of increase in the combined claim payouts for U.S. personal and commercial auto liability in the last decade. So what that means is that there's also, I mean, lawyers and all these other people talk about it too, that a lot of the tort reform and there's a lot of lawyers who obviously prey on,

not just, okay, So they justify it by representing people against auto companies, whatever. I don't know the whole story. I'm sure there's something in between. The point is, is that you have a lot of claimants with, you know, insurance fraud, by the way, right now is rampant. By the way, get a dash cam. If you're out there, get a dash cam. It's important. It could save you a lot of money sometime in the future. So there's a famous video going around right now of a guy who slams his car, rear ends his car into somebody. The only reason she isn't held liable is because she has a dash cam showing that the other guy clearly is at fault. So insurance fraud and personal injury

lawyers and all these other people are milking the auto insurance companies. A lot of those judgments are trickling down. You have the illegal immigrant situation. You've also got these more expensive car situation and you've got the storms. So it does seem like it was a perfect storm, quote unquote, of events. Also, I think a lot of claims renew on December. So that's another reason why this particular month was very high. But I feel for people out there, man, if you've got three kids or something like that and you're paying 15, 20 grand a year in car insurance, that's crazy. Especially if you, oh man, if you live in Florida, your home insurance rate, if you're lucky to have it, jacked up. Your auto insurance rate, crazy. If you live in California, apparently California just instituted some new regulations about mandatory coverage

for every person with increasing the amount that you legally have to have for your coverage, which again drives the price up. So there's a huge confluence of events, but the bottom line is always the same, is that it's harder to just be an everyday American. Yeah, it just sucks. I cannot imagine paying $20,000 a year for car insurance. That's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. Might need national car insurance at some point. I don't know. I mean, you need something. Single payer. You've got to figure out a way to get, you know, because, you know, this is, as we said, the basics. It's the carrying cost. Because if you go from a situation of, oh, I bought a 15, I saved up a lot of money, $15,000 a year car, $15,000 car, which is not, it used to be expensive.

Nowadays, it's bigger and barely going to buy you anything. Probably something you use with 70,000 miles or something on it, maybe even 100,000. So you buy that car. anything. Probably something you use with 70,000 miles or something on it, maybe even 100,000. So you buy that car, but now the carrying cost of said car with car payment and with insurance now goes very, very high. So the burn rate of the average balance sheet for an American just makes it very, very difficult. If you're the average income on $75,000 a year household, good luck. Honestly, I don't know how you have two cars. It's almost impossible. Do whatever you want with grocery prices.

Oh, right. If that's 50% more than it was a few years ago, you're getting killed, even if you got the best coupons for Food Lion that you can find. It's very sad. It really is. It makes me sad. I can't imagine what it's like for people who are out there maybe with a couple of kids or whatever. Maybe you decide to have to downside to one car, downsize to, quote unquote, one car for one family. But that can be very difficult as well,

especially if you live in a modern suburb or somewhere like that. If you are not like us, you don't live in an urban area, and you literally have to drive everywhere for it. There's a lot of downstream implications in terms of why this is all bad. So really, really sad story. Wanted to make sure that we flagged it. Trump certainly has his work cut out for him because this is going to be one of those number one things. And honestly, that'd be one of the

things that I would focus on too. I'd be like, we need to lower the price of car and carrying costs for these for everybody. It's not just homes. It's also just very basic stuff like this, food, car, gas, home. You know what I mean? If you focus just on those four, you'd be a hero. But you know, nobody in Washington likes to talk that way. All right, so speaking of skyrocketing insurance, shall we? We'll get to Luigi Mangione and the current developments in the case and also the social... Well, I wouldn't go that far. He didn't follow any of us.

Thank God. I was a little worried about that. You were like... I was like... And then I was like, okay. Dodge that one. Well, I don't need New York Times up my ass asking me about why this guy was a fan or anything like that,

even though we did swim in very similar circles. So we've got two comedians weighing in, Joe Rogan and Bill Burr, with some cutting analysis. Elizabeth Warren agreeing with them. Yes, we'll get to that next. Let's take a listen to the comedians. Bad on denying claims. 34% denial rate. Something like that.

Normal's like 16. Yeah. Yeah. So those guys. I don't think anybody's going to like be crying too hard over that guy. Maybe his family,

but that's about it. Yeah. It's a dirty, dirty business. The business of insurance is fucking gross. It's gross. And especially healthcare insurance.

Yeah. Just fucking gross. You know what's annoying me about this kid who killed this CEO is none of these news programs gross it's gross and especially health care insurance just fucking gross well you know what's annoying me about this this kid who killed this ceo is none of these news programs are talking about the incredible lack of empathy from the general public about this because of how these insurance companies treat people when they are at their most vulnerable after we've all given them our money every fucking month and now we finally you. And all you do is deny us. And then these pussies and all of these things are taking the pictures of their CEOs off their websites.

You know, I got to be honest with you, OK? I love that the fucking CEOs are fucking afraid right now. You should be. By and large, you're all a bunch of selfish, greedy fucking pieces of shit. And a lot of you are mass murderers. You just don't pull the trigger. That's why it looks clean. That's why these people look, oh, my God. Oh, he was just, you know, walking into a hotel. It's like, OK, but what was his job? What did he do? What was the results of it? Woo, Bill, my God. The beeps couldn't even keep up with him. Yeah, that was interesting.

I mean, look, it's funny. I knew that the comedians were going to have a field day with this one, but with Bill, I don't even think he's joking. He's just ranting completely. You already know that there's going to be some great sets that come out of this entire thing. But, yeah, he certainly is trying to capture, I would guess, what's the underground internet mood of the country. And before we get to Elizabeth Warren, you know, we just have to put some of

this stuff up there because you can see that there is a groundswell out there. I'm not endorsing it, but it is certainly out there. Let's go ahead and put, what is it, C3 up there on the screen. We play some VO of this. People are posting wanted pictures, apparently, all over the city of New York, showing the photos of CEOs of various different healthcare companies. You also have, let's go to the next one up there on the screen. You have the book, the Delay, Deny, Defend book, which was cited on the shell casings by Luigi Mangione that has surged to number three on the Amazon bestseller list. Next, C5, please. The jacket apparently worn by Mangione is, quote, flying off the shelves. This is, let's see, a similar green trucker.

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, you know, this is just a basic green trucker jacket. I don't really know what's so special about it. The Sherpa line hooded jacket from Levi's rings in at $225, just, quote, flying off the shelves after people speculated it was the same coat that was worn there. I mean, I guess, you know, I'll put in a plug for trucker jackets, specifically Levi's trucker jackets. They can be very stylish. They are very nice. But, yeah, you can see there is a lot of hidden energy behind this, so much so that apparently people have been offering to the lawyer of Luigi Mangione to pay his legal bills, something that the lawyer addressed in an interview. Let's take a listen.

But you said you were retained today. One big question that everyone has is, are you being paid by his family to represent him? Yeah, I'm not going to comment on that. Well, can you say that it's not his family who is asking you to retain him or retaining you to represent him? I'm not going to comment on that. I've been retained. I'm not court-appointed.

I've been retained, and that's all I can tell you. We had seen reports earlier that there was, you know, people were inundating you with offers to help pay for his legal bills. Is that accurate? I have received some emails. I have not seen them personally, but my understanding from my staff is people are doing that. The people are reaching out to you and offering to help pay for his legal bills. That's correct. Would you accept those offers? I mean, I imagine you maybe have, I don't know, have you ever gotten that before?

Nah, to be honest with you, I probably wouldn't. Why do you think you would not accept that? I don't know. I just don't, I don't know. I just don't feel comfortable about that. So I don't know. I haven't given that much thought, but I'm not looking, you know, I mean, I, you know, obviously my client appreciates the support that he has, but I don't know. I just, it, I had to look in, but it just doesn't sit right with me, really. I love how nonplussed this guy is throughout the entire interview. Refuses to look at the camera, giving extremely short answers.

Like, does he know he's on air? Yeah, exactly. It's like all the worst things you could possibly ask for in a television guest. He's doing, not giving anything clear. So what do you think? You think the family's paying him? I think so. You got it.

I would think so. I mean, they're super wealthy, right? Right. But let the public pay if they want to pay. Maybe. But then that's the other question is that did somebody reach out and preemptively, you know, retain counsel for him?

I would assume it's the family. I would assume so too. He went to Gilman, which is like one of the most expensive schools in the Maryland area. Oh, yeah, There's no question. His family's got money. Yeah.

No, no, no. I mean, that's already been coming up, is that his own family has been very wealthy. They own a bunch of golf courses, apparently, or whatever. Yeah. And then, what do they own? Golf courses. His brother's a GOP state rep. His cousin.

His cousin is a GOP state legislator. So clearly, they're influential. Apparently, very well known in the Baltimore area, the Mangione family. So, yeah, Ryan, what do you think of all this? Well, the first politician to really kind of channel some of this, and she's getting a lot of backlash, is Elizabeth Warren. Okay. I think this is a really interesting interview. And when you watch this interview, bear in mind the cliché in politics that they say everything that comes before the butt doesn't actually matter. It's what comes

after the butt. And that's why people are like, whoa, interesting. So let's roll old based Elizabeth Warren here. What happens when you turn this into the billionaires run it all is they get the opportunity to squeeze every last penny. Yeah. And look, we'll say it over and over. Violence is never the answer. This guy gets a trial who's allegedly killed the CEO of UnitedHealth. But you can only push people so far. And then they start to take matters into their own hands.

Vigilante justice. Her whole career, she's been going after CEOs more than probably any other Democratic politician. She did walk it back, though. Has she already walked it back? Of course she's already walked it back. Well, you knew that was coming. Oh, man. You knew that was coming.

Violence is bad, et cetera. Yeah, I mean, look, they're all trying to thread the needle, which I kind of find amusing, especially... Well, for them in particular. It's like, oh, how do we do this? It's like, you know, we don't want to endorse violence. She pushed the needle the furthest, though. Do you think so? Yeah, yeah, where you say, look, I don't support murder, but, but.

But. You can only push people so far. Yeah, but you can only push people so far. That's about as far as a politician is going to take it. That's fair. I think that is certainly fair. And was certainly expected that that politician would then be forced to walk that back. We also have a hilarious clip.

So good. That has come out of Luigi Mangione's fellow prisoners who were able to shout at a cameraman for News Nation. Now, as you and I were discussing, why are they playing News Nation in prison? It's cruel and unusual punishment. Yeah, of all the networks that's out there. NewsNation, that's in prison? The context here is that Jesse Waters, apparently the most out of touch man in the entire United States, said that UnitedHealth CEO Brian Thompson's allies behind bars would give Luigi a very rough time. He was going to be really in for it because obviously inmates love nothing more than health insurance CEOs.

Of course, of course. And so his theory was actually put to the test as he's in a Pennsylvania prison here. So here are Pennsylvania prisoners who are shouting back and forth with the News Nation camera crew about the conditions and other things inside the prison. Let's take a listen. Luigi's the decent sucker. Free Luigi. This was just from a few hours ago and here they are, 10 o'clock as promised. They said earlier today, tell Ashley Banfield that Luigi is watching at 10 o'clock. I mean, obviously, you know, that's just a hard roast at this point because they're not near Luigi in any way.

Can I just ask the guys, if they can hear me right now, to answer yes or no very loud. Does Luigi have television in his single cell? Unreal. They said no, right? Obviously, we have a little bit of a delay, but they're getting the questions, and they're giving us the answers. They're getting it. Luigi does not have, wow, this is quite something. This is the strangest interview I've ever conducted.

Me too, Ashley. You know, according to the Department of Corrections, he's got his own solitary cell. It's not solitary confinement, but he's by himself. It's not dorm style. I'm not sure exactly what those guys got going on in terms of a living situation. It sounds like they're all clustered together. Isn't it interesting to see what accommodations that they have? They got their own light switches.

They're obviously watching TV. They're all doing it. Past any sort of 10 o'clock curfew, you know. They're doing this for you. They're watching News Nation at this very moment. That is pretty extraordinary. Also, what kind of facility is this? Guys can just yell out, you know, it's like,

is this a jail? Yeah, so this is most American prisons, so basically those dudes are in a common room. The windows are open, probably. In fact, maybe they have the windows open and the heat on, just to make it miserable from both directions. But so it seems like all those guys are in the common room.

It's not yet time to go back to the cell and go to sleep. So they all sit around there, and they're watching television. Watching the news. Yeah. And as you saw there, they had yelled out the window to the crew, tell Ashley we're going to be watching at 10 p.m. And sure enough, they were there for their appointment at 10 p.m. And communicating back and forth. You love to see it. Yeah, it's absolutely hilarious.

So I think that Waters' theory that Luigi's going to be persona non grata in American prisons is not panning out so far. So I was speculating. First of all, this is jail. Maybe he thought he was going to Dan. Maybe Waters thought he was going to Danbury. Danbury. That's in Connecticut, though, isn't it? That's the Connecticut one where all the rich people go. Oh, right, right, right. There, Luigi might have a problem. That's right. He certainly, maybe he would have more of a problem in the federal system,

which is probably more filled with criminals, white collar criminals and others. But if convicted, right, he would be in the New York State penitentiary system.

We were speculating as to whether he'd be sent to that Dannemora prison from the show Escape at Dannemora with other violent criminals in the New York State system

all the way up, I think, in upstate New York. But yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens to him. It's going to be, as we said, it's going to be the trial of the century. I think we can at least count on that. Yeah, the guy's never going to have to buy a cigarette. You think so? You think so? All right. Yeah, maybe we're right. But are people going to remember in 20 years? How long is he going to get if he gets convicted? Well, I mean, also, he's going to be sold. He's got back pain and to be in prison. Yeah, that's rough. And he also, I mean, look, we still don't know what he's going to get if he gets convicted? Well, I mean, also he's going to be so, he's got back pain and to be in prison. Yeah, that's rough.

And he also, I mean, look, we still don't know what he's going to plead. He could be, he still could plead not guilty by reason of insanity. Or not guilty by reason of,

why don't you guys just find me not guilty? It could happen. I don't know. I mean, I don't think so just because of the way the jury, I mean, people have tried that before, right?

In terms of like, oh, I was justified in the crime. Usually the jury instructions are very narrow, so they're able to get around these types of things. Yeah, these are revolutionary times. They know how to go—the feds and the cops, they know how to rig the system to make sure that stuff like that is not going to fly. But hey, look, maybe you're right, you know? Speaking of that, in terms of some of the questions surrounding Luigi Mangione, the manifesto and the media's relationship, we've got Ken Klippenstein standing by. He's going to talk to us about his decision to publish the manifesto and why other media organizations have decided not to.

Let's get to it. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror

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I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind VoiceOver, the movement that exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing

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The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself. And I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have

received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor, going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joining us now is independent journalist Ken Klippenstein. He's famous now for publishing the Luigi Mangione Manifesto. Let's go ahead and put it up there on the screen on his sub stack, the only journalist to actually do so. So yesterday, CounterPoint did a good job breaking the manifesto down. So maybe, Ken, we can get into the decision of your decision to publish this manifesto

and also what you discovered about the mainstream media and why they decided not to publish it. Hey guys, good to be with you. So what I learned in the course of reporting on this and obtaining it, I didn't realize at first that so many of these major media outlets from the New York Times, the NBC, ABC, the Washington Post had their own copies of it, were sitting on it, were quoting selectively from it, perfectly happy to do so, but for whatever reason, they weren't willing to publish it. And what I learned after speaking with friends and other contacts at these various outlets was that there was some pressure to report it, but that in the case of every one of those companies, senior management didn't want to.

Interesting. All right. So when you say senior management didn't want to, was it a management decision or there was some speculation there was some deal with the police? What can you tell us about that? Yeah. So there are a couple of reasons that are cited. I think it's mainly an access problem, a problem of source capture, where you get this document from law enforcement. And if you look at the reporting that's out there that initially was paraphrasing it, and I said before, quoting in some cases from it, it's almost always attributed to a senior law enforcement official. That probably means the FBI. And what I was told, in the case of NBC, at least, there was an explicit deal with law enforcement that we give you this, you're not going to publish it. I don't know for certain that that's the case with other outlets. Yesterday, I published a story based on internal chat records among the editorial staff on the New York Times,

in which it said, we're not going to publish it. And they made explicit reference to the wishes of their sources. So I think there's a serious problem of source capture here, which in the case of my publishing, it didn't apply to me, but applied to basically all these major outlets. So I think there's a really important critique of media here. Yeah, that is a thing that happens between, and it's when you go, as Ken knows, it's called going in the front door. You go in the front door of an agency, you're going right to the spokespeople, people basically. And you're saying, Hey, do you have this manifesto? Can I have it? And when you go in the front door, they have the leverage because then they can say, yeah, we do have it actually. And I will give it to you. But the condition is you can't, you can't quote these parts or you can't publish it in full,

but you can paraphrase or, or whatever. And then you're stuck. Okay, I can either agree to these terms and get something. Or what you do is you go find other sources. You go in back doors or you go inside doors. What I was curious about, there are a couple times in the manifesto where it says indecipherable. Did you get a printed, a print version of it and it already said indecipherable? Or could you yourself not decipher the handwriting? So what law enforcement did was they were circulating their own copy of it because it's based on handwritten notes. So they typed up a version. Exactly.

So nobody has the original handwritten version yet. I'm not sure that they don't have a photo of it somewhere. But what was interesting about it was when law enforcement circulated this, it wasn't just the kind of senior national security reporters. It ended up being shared with a bunch of people at these outlets, which I think undermines their whole argument that if people see this thing suddenly like the Manchurian candidate, there's going to be an activation. It's an activation word that's just going to turn everyone into homicidal maniacs. Somehow that doesn't apply to the media or their friends that they were sharing this stuff with.

Because I, you know, I had heard that there were people not at all related to law enforcement or the story or national security that were just socially like, oh, hey, check this out. You want this? And it's just the public. It's just the general public that can't see it. The media was all sharing it with each other. So what I'm curious with here then, Ken, is I know that you had some reporting about Inside the New York Times, also about them not publishing a photo of Luigi Mangione. Can you tell us what's up with that? Yeah. So I got internal chat records of their editorial decision-making. They had a directive from senior management that was sent out to the reporter saying, hey, let's quote, dial down

our use of photos of this guy, not use a picture of his face. In the statement I quoted in the story, it said something like, we're not sure about the ongoing newsworthiness of this or something. And then the next morning, they have a picture of him being marched to his arraignment. And it's just his back, he's completely, it's just like, it was comical. And it was like, so childish. And I know that people at times are frustrated about this, because again, something I want to stress, when I critique the major media, these are not monoliths. There are people, there are good people in them that do good work and that don't agree with the dictates of senior management. But in this case, that's what the Times said.

And I think it relates to the exact same thing we were talking about a moment ago, which is source capture. Law enforcement doesn't like that. They want to control the narrative. And look at how they've quoted from this story and used it to paint a certain picture of this guy. CNN had a segment where they were like, yep, the manifesto, it gives you a really clear idea that this guy's nuts. He's got some really serious psychiatric issues.

And then we're not going to tell you how we know that. And we're not going to give you a passage that illustrates that, but just trust us. That's what it shows. And so it's very beneficial to law enforcement to be able to construct their own narrative and shape the public consciousness around what exactly happened when they don't give them the underlying documents. And that's the case now with the photograph, too, because I said before, the activation code is going to cause the public to become violent, which to me is just like the 90s debate about violent video games causing shootings, you know, like I don't find it very compelling. But you have to wonder if they even believe that because in those same chats, well, that might be the pretext. Oh, you know, we care so much

about public safety or whatever, which I think is problematic in itself. The reality is that they also have relationships with their sources in law enforcement that have their own wishes who they don't want to alienate. So those are kind of the two reasons that I saw. It seems really paternalistic. In an election where everybody was online, this idea that they can control whether people see this guy's photo or not, go on social media.

It's everywhere. It's all over Twitter. You can go check his own profile. Who are we to tell you what not to check or whatever? Sure, we'll show you a photo of the guy. This is the photo that he put out there, right? Now, maybe there's a bigger conversation about glorifying killers or not, but Ken, you and I have been here long enough to know that there are plenty of terrorists and other people who've been front page on the New York Times. So what's up with this? Now it's all about being selective. Yeah, exactly. And it just speaks to the ludicrous self-egoism that these major outlets have that

they think that, oh, we didn't use the photo. Everybody, time to go home. We don't know what he looks like anyway. It's like, guys, the Times hasn't had that kind of power in like decades, you know? Like you're not that important, man. And what's interesting about that decision is that the Times in recent years has become, and especially their editors, have become increasingly obsessed about traffic numbers. Like in a way that they didn't used to be. It used to be everybody in the snake pit was fighting over getting on A1. Now it's about the push alert and traffic numbers. And a hot image like that is going to drive traffic. And so for them to cut against their own self-interest is interesting because it suggests that there are these deeper, broader, more powerful interests at play here.

Are you hearing anything about how The Times is directing or talking about guiding and framing the coverage itself? Because they're trying to grapple, I guess, with this upsurge of support for him while pushing it down because of their own politics. Exactly. And I want to stress, that directive came from the top. So it was a senior editor, and he was saying, hey, we just got the – I don't remember what the exact words were, but we just got this from upstairs. And then they just quoted a statement. So this is clearly coming from the leadership of the paper. I don't want to give people the impression that I just found some random comment from some marginal person.

This is the policy of the paper and I would encourage people to go and check out on my sub-stack the exact quotes so they can see that this is something that's systemic and speaks to the concerns. I mean, when you get to that, I can only speculate. I don't know what's going on in the C-suite of the New York Times,

but I can see what's going on in the C-suite of the New York Times, but I can see what's going on in the rest of major media on television and the public-facing side, which is that they are extremely uncomfortable about all of this, and they'd rather just pretend it's not happening. In the case of the manifesto that I published, very shortly after the Daily Beast confirmed its authenticity based on their own law enforcement sources, as did a couple of other websites, none of the major media has said a word about it. And when I try to get them on the record to even just tell, try to be responsible,

be like, here's their side of the story. Here's why they said that they don't want to publish it. They wouldn't even respond. Not one. I contacted four major media outlets. I think a single or so. They won't even articulate a reason for why you're not allowed to see this. The Times published the entire Unabomber manifesto. Yeah. Well, I guess- They're probably a little bit- Theoretically under, what was it? If I remember the circumstance, it was like, he was like, if you don't publish it, then I'm going to attack somebody.

I think they're still looking their wounds over that. Yeah. But the irony is that that's ended up being his demise because the only reason he got caught is because his brother recognized the Unabomber Manifesto and turned him in. This sounds like my brother. Yeah, exactly. So if anything, it's a justified. I mean, again, if we think back to the whole Unabomber thing. Also, how funny is it that he four-starred the Unabomber Manifesto?

And let's all be honest, his manifesto is crap. He phoned it in. Yeah, it's a totally phoned-in manifesto. You could say a lot about Ted, but he put a lot of thought into that thing, okay? It was long. It was reasoned, especially Volume 1. Volume 2, things get a little weird. But, you know, I think with this case, Ken, in terms of other stories and other things that you're chasing with respect to this,

you have found an extraordinary amount of support from the public for just telling people what they want to hear, which I think is great. You know, they want information. I'm not saying in a bad way. So like they want information, you're giving them the information. And instead, these media outlets decide that they should be responsible for what other people get to hear and editorialize here and there. So can you just speak to that dynamic and how it's actually helped your own Substack now by doing this? Yeah, this whole thing that I regard as a pretext that, oh, we're protecting the public safety and they say other things. They did this when I published the Vance dossier as well, which is a very similar parallel case

where all these outlets had it, they wouldn't publish it. They say things like, oh, it's not newsworthy or, hey, our paraphrase basically told you everything in there. So what do you need to see what's under it for? Which there's two problems with. I mean, the coverage is dominated by a certain type of person in Washington or New York City who, even if they're trying their best to give the public a sense of what's relevant to their lives in it, how are they going to know? How is Wolf Blitzer going to know what some guy in, I live in Wisconsin, who is going to be like, oh, you know, this guy would be interested in that.

He's going to have a Washington idea of what's interesting in it. So that's problematic in itself. But I think the bigger issue here is the fact that they think that they've sort of deputized themselves into being these public safety officers that are going to decide what's safe for the public, if that's even what they believe, if it's not just deals that they've cut with law enforcement like we were talking about before. And so in the case of all this, I just wish there was some kind of public discussion about they never articulate any of their policies around these things, including around mass shooters and whatever their policy is on publication of photos. There's just no discussion. It's just kind of pretend it didn't happen, which is precisely

what's happened to the manifesto. Not one of these outlets has even, I have messages. I didn't publish these saying, yes, we know this is authentic. That's the real thing, guys, just to give you a heads up. And then they linked to my sub stack. They won't acknowledge that publicly. They're just all pretending it didn't happen. It's very strange. So stupid. Well, your substack's blowing up as a result of it, and that's great to see. Great scoop, Ken. Thanks so much for joining us.

It's kenklippenstein.com, right? And that's where people can get your substack, right? Yeah, probably the only one under that name. Yes, that's right. And we will have a link to it down in the description of this video. Thanks for joining us, man. We appreciate you. Good seeing you guys.

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