Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 1/21/26: Trump Demands Greenland At Davos, Canada Breaks With US, Market Tank, MN Cops Vs ICE

Episode Date: January 21, 2026

Ryan and Emily discuss Trump demands Greenland at Davos, Canada breaks with US, Trump approval plummets, MN cops harassed by ICE.   Zeeshan: https://www.zeeshanfortexas.com/    To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Raqim had the bucket hat can go join on. Apostle. That's Raqin. That's who you named after. I just was like, damn, that f***. I'll listen to the Questlove show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. A new year doesn't ask us to become someone new. It invites us back home to ourselves. I'm Mike Delarocha, a host of sacred lessons, a space for men to pause, reflect, and heal.

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I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name. Part of the way through the Valley of Despair is realizing this would happen, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward. Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your favorite shows. Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

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We've got the Abraham Lincoln, which, by the way, it's such an indignity to the great man that this aircraft carrier that is on its way to Iran to launch strikes on it is named after our greatest president. Going to be deployed for malicious purposes, it seems like. Isn't the Roosevelt also over there, which is a much better? That one is a little on the nose. Yeah, and in any event. First it was Kermit, then it was.

The attack on Iran, which was postponed, apparently, because too much of our carrier groups, you know, we're busy doing regime change elsewhere. We're now full steam ahead towards Iran. Schedule is back on track. Yeah. I think a lot of people felt like, oh, okay, we're not going to get an Iran strike, a second round of war with Iran because there's no reason to do it. Like, they're not attacking us, so we're not going to attack them. But no, I think, you know, we're still going to do it. We'll say Trump is in Davos right now. So literally as we're speaking, we're going to break down his big speech at Davos. We're going to take you through some of the reactions at Davos to what's happened over the last several days in regard to Greenland and Canada. Mark Carney, Canadian Prime Minister, obviously gave a banger of a speech. So it's bouncing around everywhere right now. It definitely caught the attention of the entire chattering.

class and for some interesting reasons because it's, I think, Ryan, it's fair to say, a pretty significant moment. An obituary for American hegemony is what he was trying to write. Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to break it down. And we also have the markets opening in a bit. We're going to get to that as well because yesterday, boy, that was rough.

Yeah, because normally, you know, if the stocks sell off, you know, you'll see, you know, the bond market rally or if the bond market crashes, you see the stock market rally because it's all in the American sandbox. Yesterday, the world was just selling everything American. It was good timing for the Carney speech. We'll put it that way. Yes. Trump knows how to play it. Well, speaking of Trump, I was at the White House yesterday and his briefing, he had at the last minute. Not a briefing. There's nothing brief about it. It was a longing, yes. It was, I don't even, there are no words. He ran down a list of the 365 accomplishments for 365 days. It was like two hours long.

Like, wait, you're going to do how many accomplishments? 365. I got stuff to do, man. Of course, it was announced at the last minute, but people thought he would just be going through the highlights. No, he was like going bullet by bullet through the list. So he answered questions from reporters towards the end of it. This is after he was up until 2 a.m. Yeah.

because he was at the college football championship. Well, we know we have like time stamps from truth social and pool reports. Like this man just doesn't sleep. Actually, a hiccup on the way to Davos last night, late last night, Air Force One had to turn around because of quote, a minor electrical issue. The lights flashed in the press cabin. He left his MAGA hat at home. Yeah, it might have been it.

You can't. You can't speak to Davos without your MAGA hat. We'll see. We'll see how he shows up. But anyway, we have a breakdown of all of that. New updates from Minneapolis. Zara Mamdani went on The View yesterday. And Ryan, we're going to talk a little bit about updates out of Israel and Sudan.

The boys are fighting in Davos. Donald Trump just finished his remarks. And the atmosphere was reportedly nervous. That's what Politico said before he got there on an overnight flight. And, you know, it seemed kind of low energy like Trump has been the last couple of weeks, last like 48 hours. But he ended up, I think, improvising in particular some moments that it's just the scene at Davos has been, Mark Carney, we're going to get to this in a moment, but he used the word rupture to describe what's happened geopolitically. It feels like Davos is the embodiment of this geopolitical Western, like, rupture.

So Trump obviously addressed Greenland. He addressed Canada. He addressed all kinds of things. The White House is now, he even addressed Ilhan Omar for one. for one reason or another. The White House is now tweeting about Gavin Newsom watching from the Cuck chair because Gavin Newsom went to Davos

to undercut Trump and was standing in the corner of the room. So just a great morning all around. Let's roll Donald Trump first here on Greenland, A1. I have tremendous respect for both the people of Greenland and the people of Denmark.

Tremendous respect. But every NATO ally has an obligation to be able to defend their own territory. And the fact is, no nation or a group of nations is in any position to be able to secure Greenland other than the United States. We're a great power, much greater than people even understand. I think they found that out two weeks ago in Venezuela. We saw this in World War II when Denmark fell to Germany after just six hours of fighting and was totally unable to defend. either itself or Greenland.

So the United States was then compelled. We did it. We felt an obligation to do it, to send our own forces to hold the Greenland territory. And hold it we did at great cost and expense. They didn't have a chance of getting on it. And they tried. Denmark knows that.

And then after the war, which we won, We won it big without us. Right now, you'd all be speaking German and little Japanese, perhaps. After the war, we gave Greenland back to Denmark. How stupid were we to do that, but we did it. But we gave it back. But how ungrateful are they now? So now our country and the world face much greater risks than it did ever before

because of missiles, because of nuclear, because of weapons of warfare that I can't even talk about. Two weeks ago, they saw weapons that nobody ever heard of. They weren't able to fire one shot at us. They said, what happened? Everything was discombobulated. They said, we've got them in our sights. Press the trigger, and nothing happened. Then for so many years, we've never gotten anything, except we pay for NATO.

And we paid for many years until I came along. We paid for, in my opinion, 100% of NATO because they weren't paying their bills. And all we're asking for is to get Greenland, including right title and ownership, because you need the ownership to defend it. You can't defend it on a lease. Number one, legally it's not defensible that way, totally. And number two, psychologically, who the hell wants to defend a license agreement? or at least, I don't know that they'd be there for us.

They're not there for us on Iceland, that I can tell you. I mean, our stock market took the first dip yesterday because of Iceland. So Iceland's already cost us a lot of money. Now, asked how far he would go to acquire Greenland yesterday before he took off for this flight. I want to roll, this was the long briefing, like two hours where Trump was going through all of the accomplishments of the first 365 days, he got asked how far he would go. This is A2. How far are you willing to go to acquire green? You'll find out. Okay, Ryan, so the last 24 hours have been, well, I mean, it feels like this every day,

but the last 24 hours have been a whirlwind to say the least. Trump lands in Davos for the World Economic Forum's annual confab in front of European leaders and says this, we have more clips, the way, lest you think that was it, we have more. But quick reactions to what we saw. It's just so thoroughly embarrassing. Like, as an American, as a person on this planet, it's humiliating. But let's suffer through a little bit more of this humiliation. Trump had more to say than just that.

The consequences of such destructive policies have been stark, including lower economic growth, lower standards of living, lower birth rates, more socially disruptive migration. more vulnerability to hostile foreign adversaries and much, much smaller militaries. The United States cares greatly about the people of Europe. We really do. I mean, look, I am derived from Europe, Scotland and Germany. 100% Scotland, my mother, 100% German, my father.

And we believe deeply in the bonds. share with Europe as a civilization. I want to see it do great. That's why issues like energy, trade, immigration, and economic growth must be central concerns to anyone who wants to see a strong and united West, because Europe and those countries have to do their thing. They have to get out of the culture that they've created over the last 10 years. It's horrible what they're doing to themselves. They're destroying themselves. It's beautiful, beautiful places. We want strong allies, not seriously weakened ones. We want Europe to be strong.

I am derived from Europe. Yeah, there you go. He is derived from Europe. Yeah. So it'd be one thing if this was just this weird joke that he was telling. But like this went from a joke at the end of his first term to, oh wait, this guy's actually serious and disrupting the entire global order and economy, which we'll talk about in a second in order to just switch from a lease. to an ownership role in Greenland. Yeah, and there's an interesting,

I mean, as people are listening to each of these moments, he's doing something where he says, like, we love Canada, we love Europe, we love NATO so much that we have to do this. We love Greenland so much that we have to do this. And so he's trying to, like he said, on the one hand, it's this flattery. And on the other hand, it's, but hey.

Should we do the Canada one and then we can roll out of some of the reactions? Yeah, well, and I think the, big theme here is that, and this is, I actually think this is a fair assessment, and it's one that people on the right would say, or people in MAGA circles, probably a better way to put it, would own up to this description of the broader theme being a mafioso American leadership. And the reason why people in MAGA world would say that's good is that it's a more honest way of doing the business that the United States was going about doing anyway. And at least you're

being honest about it and getting something out of it and projecting strength, that would be the sort of MAGA version of it. On the other hand, it's a total shakedown, essentially. So let's go ahead and roll Canada. For national and international security and to keep our very energetic and dangerous potential enemies at bay, is this land on which we're going to build the greatest golden dome ever built? We're building a golden dome that's going to, just by its very nature, going to be defending Canada. Canada gets a lot of freebies from us, by the way. They should be grateful also, but then not. I watched your prime minister yesterday.

He wasn't so grateful. They should be grateful to us. Canada. Canada lives because of the United States. Remember that, Mark, the next time you make your statements. Yeah. Ryan, it's always fun to watch Trump clips with Ryan, like, longer ones because he just cracks up

in the background. This one is like just, it's all, it's, it's, it's a typical classic like Trump. It's, but it, there's an extra layer of fury that it brings about because of what is doing to regular people in the country as a result of this and around the world, which, which I want to get to pretty, pretty quick. You know, the show's running late because we wanted to wait for Trump's.

Why we waited for that. Like, we knew exactly the kind of thing. I was because I don't think we knew exactly. You know, the thrust of it. He didn't even know exactly what he was going to say. Right. The thrust of it. So he talked about Mark Carney.

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Don't be dumb. He reflects on his journey from his Harlem roots to global icon status, discovering the hip-hop origin of his name. The ledge was on the TV. Rakim had the bucket hat can go during the apostles. Like, that's Rakim. That's who you named after. I just was like, damn, that fucking I swear.

Rocky offers a window into not only a boundary-breaking artist, but as a man committed to fusing creative ideas, community, and remaining unapologetically himself. Have you ever gotten roasted for any of your outfits? For sure. Some people don't be getting the vision. Look, they can roast me, they could cook me, they could deep fried me, they can saute, whatever they want. It's nobody who can be with my fashion sense and my taste is impeccable.

I'm just like, I impress myself a lot. It's an amazing conversation. One, you definitely don't want to miss. So listen to the Questlove show on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. New year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt and I'm Joel. We are from the How to Money podcast and every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there.

If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to How to Money on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And I think that's a good place to pivot. to some of the reaction, and then we can go back to some of this other stuff. So Carney, this is going to be a longer clip, but I think it's worth playing the entire thing, because this is a seismic speech. This is the one where Trump was saying he wasn't that grateful, but this is a man that could not more fully embody globalization. He was a central banker in the UK.

And then also over in Canada, now he's the prime minister of Canada, yet he's giving one of the most kind of clear-eyed analyses of what the international order actually is and is becoming. So let's roll Carney. I think this is worth listening to the entire thing. It seems that every day we're reminded that we live in an era of great power rivalry, that the rules-based order is faced. that the strong can do what they can and the weak must suffer what they must. And this aphorism of Thucydides is presented as inevitable, as the natural logic of international relations reasserting itself. And faced with this logic, there is a strong tendency for countries to go along, to get along, to accommodate, to avoid trouble,

to hope that compliance will buy safety. Well, it won't. So what are our options? For decades, countries like Canada prospered under what we called the rules-based international order. We joined its institutions, we praised its principles, we benefited from its predictability. And because of that, we could pursue values-based foreign policies under its protection. We knew the story of the international rules-based order was partially false. that the strongest would exempt themselves when convenient, that trade rules were enforced asymmetrically.

And we knew that international law applied with varying rigor depending on the identity of the accused or the victim. This fiction was useful. An American hegemony in particular helped provide public goods, open sea lanes, a stable financial system, collective security, and support for frameworks for resolving disputes. So we placed the sign in the window. We participated in the rituals, and we largely avoided calling out the gaps between rhetoric and reality.

This bargain no longer works. Let me be direct. We are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition. Over the past two decades, a series of crises in finance, health, energy and geopolitics have laid bare the risks of extreme global integration. But more recently, great powers have begun using economic integration as weapons. Tariffs is leverage, financial infrastructure is coercion,

supply chains as vulnerabilities to be exploited. You cannot live within the lie of mutual benefit through integration when integration becomes the source of your subordination. All right, so one of the reactions has been, well, that's pretty interesting that you were willing to say that the international order was kind of a partial lie, but you were on the receiving end of some of the goodies, so you were okay with all of this injustice. Setting that all aside, it's from there, he goes on to say, okay, what do we do from here? And what he says is, and what he says is, we're going to have to hedge our risk. The risk is the United States, basically. We can hedge it alone and all be self-sufficient kind of castles, but that's going to make us poorer and make a less stable world. He's like, let's all get together, those of us who want to team up and hedge our risks together.

Whether that's, and he talks about doing business with China, and they just let in, what, 60,000 of their cars. Or doing business with Europe or free, anybody else who's interested in free trade over tariffs and not using kind of the international order as a weapon against each other, team up against basically the United States. So he's like, he's arguing, let's not do just our own individual castles. Let's do a network of castles against this like completely unpredictable behemoth beneath us. Sort of arguing that. Well, I mean, he, this is like Ryan was saying, it's like a Bilderberg guy, UN climate envoy guy. And I think actually Trump and Mark Carney don't disagree on something fundamental, which is that this is a rupture of the international rules-based order. Trump is bragging about that. Carney is lamenting it. And I think that much, I mean, it's almost like he's late to this diagnosis, to be honest. And what's. difficult for the carnies of the world is that nobody is happy with, and I actually think, I'm curious what you make of this, there is a pretty good argument that what was, what they decry Trump doing, using international order as a cudgel, using tariffs as a tool of manipulation,

all of the, like using Western hegemony to be a bully, all of those things were already happening, like behaving like mafios. Trump is being more honest about it. Mark Carney is pretending, that that was never the case, and that what he really wants from the perch of the World Economic Forum and Bilderberg is just the rules-based international order. He wants the pretense, and there may be some value to the pretense just on its own, but he doesn't want the substance of it. He wants the pretense and not the substance. And what I think the rupture is, so he's correct about the rupture point. Trump is correct about the rupture point. What he thinks it is, it's the end of the pretense.

Ultimately. Yeah. And he's saying his point is a little bit more nuanced in an interesting way. He's saying it was always a lie. But there was value in the lie. Yeah. Right, right, right. The value of the pretense.

Right. There was some restraining ability of the lie, like the myth. Which is why I can't truly. But we all put our sign in the window. We all believed. We all pretended to believe in it in the hopes that the lie could eventually become reality. Yeah. Now he's saying that's just never going to.

to happen. What the near term, it's interesting, the U.S. is choosing this moment. Like the U.S. was probably on its way out of hegemony. Either way. At some point, the next, who knows when, the U.S. is choosing this moment to do it, or Trump is choosing it on behalf of the United States. But it's not totally clear, any, doing it over Greenland. It's not entirely clear that we're ready for this. Like, we have deindustrialized ourselves fully. we have not re-industrialized. Trump thinks if we just jump and go for it, that we'll land on our feet. So far, we're just falling.

We put up A1 here. The markets shed like one and a half, one and a half points. And the bond market crashed as well, which is unusual. You know, normally they don't both go at the same time. the effect on the effect for regular people and by you know people's four one caves and all this other stuff you know that matters but like effect on regular people is is brutal so let's look at let's look at a nine here uh this is so and you just read this just days after mortgage rates hit a three year low sparking a near instant surge in applications this is applications for mortgages

fresh trade tensions are threatening to undo that progress rates on a 30 year mortgage jumped 14 basis points to an average of 6.21% on Tuesday morning, according to Mortgage News Daily. You put up A10, which shows just graphically, like, how brutal this is. So if you're just listening to this and you're not looking at the image, on January 9th, you see a collapse in mortgage rates, and that's what then gets people thinking, oh, my God, finally we can move. We can sell the house. We can buy a house.

Like maybe this real estate market is unfreezing. What happened on January 9th is that Trump ordered the Treasury Department to start, and GSEs, to start buying a ton of mortgage-backed securities to make up for the amount of mortgage-backed securities that the Fed is kind of rolling back on to the market as it's unwinding some of its quantitative easing. So what that does, so basically a bank makes a mortgage, then they cut it up into securities, and they sell it into the market. And if the federal government is coming in and buying those securities,

that means that the mortgages can be sold at a lower interest rate. And so you're pumping taxpayer money into the market to push down mortgage rates to unfreeze the real estate market, which I think is actually a good idea. Like, this is good. Like, people need, we need to unfreeze this real estate market. So Trump does that on January 9th, and it starts to work. for you, Trump. The guy's like doing his job. Then what happens? That's a Friday. What happens on

Sunday night? Jerome Powell announces that Trump is trying to prosecute him. And so immediately the markets go haywire again. And then what does he do? And you put up, you put up A-11 here. This is about the mortgage-backed security thing. Then what does he do? He says that he's going to put tariffs on everybody who does any business with Greenland or whatever until Greenland is just handed over to them. And then mortgage rates spike right back to where they were when Trump intervened in the market to try to make them affordable. The only difference is now we've spent, God only knows how many billions of dollars in this failed effort to push down mortgage rates. And now the taxpayer owns all of these mortgage-backed securities, which if the economy spins out of control,

It means even deeper blot on our balance sheet. At the same time, this Danish pension fund announced that it was selling off all of its treasuries. You can put up A12 here, which contributed to the interest rates going up. This morning, Bessent was asked about this at a press conference in Davos. let me see if I can find his exact quote is incredible yes so Bessent said quote Denmark's investment in U.S. treasury bonds like Denmark itself is irrelevant that's it's like okay well maybe to you because you're like rich a. F yeah I was going to say you're a billionaire you're not trying to buy a house or sell a house you're not struggling you don't care what happens

to the American economy he did just sell his soybean farm so he said he sold off his So he does on flight. He found a buyer for the soybean farm. He also said, by the way, I don't know if you caught this. He was talking about Gavin Newsom. This is a quote from Scott Besson this morning. I guess it would be afternoon in Switzerland time. But he said, quote, I think it's very, very ironic that Newsom,

who strikes me as Patrick Bateman meets Sparkle Beach Ken, may be the only Californian who knows less about economics than Kamala Harris. He's here this week with his billionaire Sugar Daddy. Alex Soros. The White House, as I mentioned, also proceeded on its rapid response Twitter account to say that Newsom, they posted a picture of him watching Trump speech in the back of the room, was in the cuck corner chair. Amazing. White boy winter. So Bessent, who is telling you that Denmark's purchase of treasuries is completely relevant, at A5, he also delivered another nice little Marie Antoinette moment. Let's roll this A5 side. We are going to give guidance at some point

to see what is a mom and pop that someone, maybe your parents for their retirement, about five, 10, 12 homes. So we don't want to push the mom and pops out. We just want to push everyone else out. So even when Trump is doing something populist and cool, which is he's trying to push investors out of the home buying market, like BlackRock and these others that are coming in and trying to buy up all these homes, they're like, well, how are you going to define this? Besson says, well, your parents might own 5, 10, 12 homes. They might. They might. You don't want to push them out of the market. That's just a mom and pop buying 12 homes for your retirement. Yeah. Also, wait, now your parents are responsible for their kids' retirement? It's one thing like high school and college to some extent. Retirement? Well, I think what they're,

My assumption on that is what they mean is the Gen X and millennials who are about to inherit property from boomers, that would be a retirement nest egg because they don't own property. And so if your retirement is tied up in a house, not necessarily great financial planning, but I assume that's what he was referring to. So if you do own 5, 10, or 12 houses. Yeah. Mom and pop. Then you're going to be taken care of by Bessent.

Let's also roll 814, another cabinet member, Brooke Rollins, was a... was criticized for telling people they can like totally survive just fine on a couple dollars a day. She she went back to it, said she did a bunch of modeling and stands by it. Let's roll A14 here. We had run almost a thousand simulations and between three and four dollars is a fair number if you can have access to that food. So just about an hour ago, I saw new numbers that were run. A full day, meaning three full square meals and a snack is about $15. $15.64. That's all three meals and a snack. And a snack. And a snack. I mean, it's true. Like, if you go to Costco and you got the massive bag of rice. Totally. Now, I don't know who's going to pay the Costco membership because that's practically a dollar a day just for that. And you just ate rice

for three meals a day. Yeah. And your snack would be the free samples in Costco. But yeah, doesn't work because you just have to pay the membership. Meanwhile, she just cut a bunch of food stamps. So making it even more difficult. So yeah, she wants to make sure that the government, the administration wants to make sure people who own 12 houses aren't unfairly penalized by their rulemaking. But as long as you have 15 bucks,

then you can get three meals a day and a snack. Like, what on earth kind of government is this? It's an interesting midterm strategy. Let's roll. See how this works for them. Yeah, exactly. This is, so CNBC has the market's rebounding today. I mean, you can see that, but they say they connected to Trump telling everyone at Davos

that, quote, he would not use force to acquire Greenland, easing a concern that has rattled markets and caused a flight from dollar-based assets. Ray Dalio raised some eyebrows with these comments from Davos that we wanted to roll for everyone. Obviously, Dahlio of Bridgewater. It's sort of similar to the Carney clip that it's an interesting. You use the word seminal. I think that's a good word for what Carney said. Here's Ray Dalio kind of reacting to what's happened in the last week or so, maybe even just the last 48 hours.

The headline is going to be that the, and this is the one that's the Nassianna. NBC is quote, the monetary order is breaking down. Throw the clip. Let's step back from the sensational and be clear about what I mean. The monetary order is breaking down. Okay. What I mean by the monetary order is that fiat currencies and debt, as a storehold of wealth, is not being held by central banks in the same way.

and that there was a change. The biggest market to move last year was the gold market, far better than the tech markets and so on. And the U.S. markets underperformed foreign markets because of the fact you could see it in the numbers of the central banks and so on. So let's just look at the fact that on the other side of trade deficits and trade wars, there are capital. and capital wars. And so as we're looking at that, and you reported what the stock market and so on, but you didn't report that the gold market

is also up three parts of money. We did say that earlier this morning. It's up to record levels again. And silver. If you look at what is happening and why it's happening and who's buying it. So let's just take a moment on that capital war issue. Okay.

We know that both the holders of U.S. dollar-denominated debt, which is money, and those who need it, the United States, are worried about each other, right? So if you have other countries who are holding it and they're worried about each other and we're producing a lot of it, that's a big issue, right? So you have to explain what is going on with fiat currencies, generally speaking. And now if you take the conflicts, you can't ignore the possibility the capital wars. In other words, maybe there's not the same inclination to buy U.S. debt and so what. We at least need to talk about those possibilities and find out who is buying and selling what

that is behind these market movements. Ryan, that's basically what you were saying. Yeah, I mean, so we're entering, it's going to be, you know, what's the Chinese proverb? May you live in interesting times? Yes. We're getting that. These are going to be, these are going to be interesting times. This, again, the U.S. chose the time of this fight in a, and I am quite skeptical that we are prepared for it.

I just want to say these people all suck. I mean, they all suck. Everyone sucks. Every part of this sucks. And it's the reason they don't have them more, I'm sorry, I just don't, I can't give moral high ground. to Mark Carney and Gavin Newsom on this or to a lot of Trump's critics on this. I don't think anybody has the moral high ground because the reason we know this, but the reason Donald Trump is president of the United States, again,

is that the system is not working. This is not working for average Americans. If you ask people in Canada, they'd probably tell you the same thing. If you ask people in the UK, they'll tell you the system isn't working for average Brits, it's all broken. And they fucking broke it. These people broke it. And now they're the, they want,

You want to know what my evenings actually look like? Homework questions. Someone needs a permission slip signed. The dog's begging for a walk. Someone's yelling for a snack. And somewhere in the middle of all that, I'm supposed to figure out dinner? That's why HelloFresh has been a lifesaver.

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Take some stress out of your evenings right now. Get 50% off your first box plus free sides for life. That's right. Free sides for life. Go to Hellofresh.c.c8 and use code rescue 50. That's Hellofresh.c.cate code rescue 50. Hello Fresh. Canada's number one meal kit delivery service. Hey, what's up y'all? This is Questlove recently. I had the opportunity to sit down with Aesap Rocky ahead of his album release. Don't be dumb. He reflects on his journey from his Harlem roots to global icon status,

discovering the hip-hop origin of his name. The ledge was on the TV. Rakim had the bucket hat can go during the past. I was like, that's Rakim. That's who you named after. I just was like, damn, that fucking I got swag. Rocky offers a window into not only a boundary break. artist, but as a man committed to fusing creative ideas, community, and remaining unapologetically

himself. Have you ever gotten roasted for any of your outfits? For sure. Some people don't be getting the vision. Look, they could roast me, they could cook me, they could deep fried meat, they can saute, whatever they want. It's nobody who can be with my fashion sense and my taste is impeccable. I'm just like, I impress myself a lot. It's an amazing conversation. One, you definitely don't want to miss. So listen to the Quest level. show on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. New Year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt, and I'm Joel.

We are from the How to Money podcast, and every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to How to Money on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To trust them to fix it. And we don't really have any other option. Yeah. I started in politics fighting against globalization in the late 1990s, early 2000s. I didn't know that Donald Trump would be the ally that would take us into the castle and deliver us this victory.

Yes. It tastes so sweet, doesn't it? Sure does. Yeah, disaster, disaster. When we, I mean, every Davos feels the same. It feels like the exact same thing. But this one will probably, if you're looking for turning point moments in the history of Davos, to the extent we'll remember this one as something on its own. It's probably as. I think Carney is right.

And Trump would probably agree with him that this is a moment of rupture and that this is a, we've entered a new era, which we probably arguably entered it in 2016. But maybe not to your point that Trump didn't have the same. power and will that he seems to have now. Yeah, and the opponents of globalization were arguing that the chief problems, whether it was it was driving down wages for people all over the world. Like the race to the bottom when it came to breaking unions hurt the workers in third world countries and then it also hurt the middle class back in the United States.

It was undermining democracy and sovereignty that these globalized institutions were unaccountable to regular people. And also, it was destroying the planet on which we rest. So I'm not so sure that Trump holds any of those values, whether it comes to dignity for workers, sovereignty for countries, or respect for the planet. So Trump may have defeated globalization, but what replaces it could be a much darker set of forces. We'll be covering all of it. near future. Let's turn to Donald Trump, marking his first year back in office and take a look at the polling. We mentioned this earlier, but Donald Trump gave a, Ryan was referring to it as a longing, because it's not, it wasn't a briefing. It was a longing at the White House yesterday. I was there

for this. Donald Trump announced that the last minute, the White House announced that the last minute, that he would be joining the press briefing that day. And let's just say it was all Donald Trump for what, like two hours it went on forever. he was reading off a list of 365 accomplishments that the White House handed out to reporters ahead of time, a stapled kind of packet of 365 accomplishments for 365 days. Obviously, Trump was there to mark his one year anniversary back in office. It was January 20th, so it was exactly a year to the day since his second inauguration. And friend of the show, Philip Wegman, from Real Clear Politics, got this question in.

Let's take a listen. You promised during your second inaugural to always put America for, First, I'm curious, how would you winning the Nobel Peace Prize improve the lives of average everyday Americans? Why is this price so important? It wouldn't improve the lives of any, what improved the lives of people are people that are living. I saved probably tens of millions of lives in the wars. You know, if you add up the numbers, just if you look at any one of those wars you're talking about millions of people, you multiply times eight. But when you look at India in Pakistan, that could have been 10, 15, 20 million people.

Could have been more than that. So I saved millions of people. So that, to me, is the big thing. So that question comes amidst polling. We can put the CNBC or this NBC news tear sheet up on the screen that shows Donald Trump actually struggling on marks from voters when it comes to the economy. So just reading a little bit from this report, quote, Trump closed out his first term in 2020 with majorities approving of how he handled the economy,

even as he went on to lose the election of Biden. But they continue to say during the first few months of Trump's current term, his approval rating on the economy hovered in the mid-40s, though it has since dropped several points, this piece notes, an AP-Norke survey conducted January 8th through 11, found 37% of Americans approve of how Trump is handling the economy, while a Reuters-Ipsos survey conducted January 12 through 13, found his economic approval rating at 34%,

while 30% approved of his handling of inflation, the Wall Street Journal found those ratings slightly higher, 44% approval on the economy and 41% on inflation and rising prices. I wouldn't even call that slightly higher. That's a pretty big difference between the journal, which is saying 44% approval on the economy. And 34 from Reuters, 37 from AP, that's a pretty big gap.

It seems like the journal poll might be the outlier on that, Ryan. It's where Republicans think he's most vulnerable, where they think they're most vulnerable going into the midterm cycle, is that, again, he's out at Davos today. He's talking about Greenland. He's talking about Canada. And they are begging the White House to focus on quote affordability, which Trump, what does he call it now, a hoax? A hoax, yeah.

They're begging the, they're doing everything they can to try to get the White House's attention on the economy. And that's actually why Trump is going to Davos. He was supposed to be giving a big speech on the economy. But now it's going to be heavily dominated by Greenland, the big picture, abstract question of a general. and war. And we're going to talk about this in the next segment, but the assault on Greenland is hurting the American economy. It is the thing that combined with trying to prosecute the Fed chair that is driving the stock market sell off and driving mortgage rates up, driving interest rates up, driving uncertainty in the economy. We'll show some charts so we can get into that

later. So it's not just that people are hurting and he's refusing to focus on. on the economic pain that they're feeling and trying to make it better. It's not just that. It's that the adventures that he's having around the world are making it even worse. So it had, so it like, the whole thing feeds into itself. And then all day long, we're like, you know,

bracing for the next human rights abuse to come out of Minneapolis or now they're in Portland and Lewiston, Maine, because that's what the whole country was demanding that we do it, you know, send ice into Maine to start rounding people up. And so we're just expecting to see, like, people getting dragged out of their cars, a woman shot in Minneapolis, like, instead of what he said he was going to do when he was elected, which is get prices down. That's what he said he was going to do. Well, actually, on that note, let's put these immigration poll numbers up on the

screen before. This is, to the point that Ryan was just making more from this NBC report, they say Trump's aggressive promises on immigration and border security were a centerpiece of his campaign, too, but Americans broad ratings on his handling of immigration in particular have declined since he took office polling last month from Fox and AP Nork still found Trump with a slim majority approval rating on border security, but he fares worse when respondents are asked about immigration as a separate issue. And right, to those of us who follow this and probably a lot of our listeners and viewers, what is happening in Minneapolis and cities around the country and the Trump administration's immigration crackdown is not exactly surprising. I mean, I'm not surprised at all

by what we're seeing. But if you heard Donald Trump out on the campaign trail talking about mass deportations and just returning to some border security and the other option is Kamala Harris, and immigration is something you care about, it might not have been obvious that his approach, the immigration issue, was going to look like this, exactly, that it was going to be. And so I think, you know, to the extent that he's struggling on this, here's NBC News writes, quote,

Trump's approval on immigration across a handful of polls conducted by CBSUGov, Fox News, and Quinnipiac in the final month of 2025, came in around the mid-40s, so higher than the economy. Well, the Wall Street Journal poll came in at 48% higher again. And early January polling from CNN and AP Nork conducted largely after an ICE officer, Fadley shot a woman in Minneapolis, found Trump's approval ratings on immigration at 42% and 38% respectively. But he was hanging over that 50% mark a lot of points during the year

prior. And so it's a little bit of a slump right now for him. And I wonder if that's the explanation that there's a expectation versus reality gap of people being uncomfortable with what the enforcement level looks like from the Trump administration. Yeah, and I think this is one of those, like, shocking versus surprising things. And because I had the privilege of getting to be on this show, I was getting my news about what Trump was going to do from, you know, you and Sagar. And so, not surprised. And, you know, watches rallies, and he talks a lot about immigration. And so I'm not surprised that he's doing this crackdown. The way that they're carrying out is still shocking, even if you expect it to come.

Just to see these thugs roaming American streets, behaving the way they are, is just shocking to the American conscience. This Papers-please mentality being brought from Germany over to the United States and being foisted on lots of American citizens. It's just shocking. So it makes sense, though, when people say,

well, I approve of his handling of the border. because the border is like secure. Like we're not seeing like the waves of people come across like we did in the Biden administration. But immigration overall, this thing where you've got these masked ice agents thoroughly disrespecting the Bill of Rights, the thing that the right even itself was warning about for decades. We're going to have these armed federal agents that are going to go around asking you for your papers and disrespecting your. civil liberties. Like that, that combined with the, you can't, you can't buy a home, prices aren't coming down, you know, like, that I think is contributing to his, like, extraordinary unpopularity.

So speaking of ICE in particular, NBC notes that, quote, polling from Quinnipiac found 57% of registered voters disapproved of how ICE is enforcing immigration laws broadly. So that's a higher number than when you're asking about Trump. And CNN found that 51% of adults said ICE enforcement is making American cities less safe, while 31% said the enforcement is making cities safer. Pretty hard to get a plus 20 on any contentious issue in the United States. Well, and I'll actually add in a country that is fairly supportive, both of legal immigration but also of enforcement, right, is supportive in the abstract, at least, of,

quote, mass deportations. That actually, I think, is one of the things that media folks in D.C. were surprised. over the last year or two, especially during the campaign season, you'll remember this, to see showing up in polls a majority of Americans saying, yeah, mass deportations. We do support mass deportations. Not surprising if you look at the numbers of the largest surge in immigration since Ellis Island, as David Leanhart wrote at the New York Times, that you're going to get a response like that from the public. But when you ask about ICE in particular, this was a January poll, too. It wasn't a December poll. So January, as all of this is, is great,

going on January 13th. That's a question that Republicans in purple districts, and those are the ones that are on the bubble of some of them even if they're going to run again, but those are the Republicans that are going to get a whole lot of questions about this sort of thing. And to the point, I mean, I was watching Trump's interview with Katie Pavich on News Nation last night. He said he wants to be remembered as a great president. That's, if you have already 57% of voters saying they disapprove of how ICE is enforcing immigration laws, and you're leaning into that, that's definitely legacy stuff. Yeah, and that's without, and I've talked about this before, that's without a serious external

crisis hitting him. You could, you know, the California fires kind of started before he was president. I wouldn't even count those, right? We're about to get an ice storm all across the southeast, which could be the, like, basically the first major external crisis hitting him. He hasn't really had, if you go through the history of the presidents, you get like, you know, George W. Bush, you got Katrina or 9-11, these external shocks that kind of you then either have, you know, you respond to them and you are heralded for your response or you break in the face of them. or it exposes some of the problems that you like that are inherent in your approach to the presidency. He hasn't had any of that.

He's had stable prices. He's had an unemployment rate that was declining coming in, a fairly strong economy that by just giving body blow after body blow to it, with his tariffs are on, tariffs are off, I'm prosecuting the Fed, I'm doing this. Like, he has single-handedly rattled a decent economy, but otherwise there hasn't, like, the only external shock has been Trump himself. And we'll see how the ice storm unfolds.

Maybe that will end up being catastrophic enough to get his attention, but probably not. We have actually his foreign policy numbers as well. We can put B5 up on the screen this is more from that NBC report, which just took a look at all of the recent polling. It's a very helpful thing to do as we hit the one-year mark. Overall, quote, his approval rating on foreign policy has hired around 40% in recent polling, a slight decline from the mid-40s at the start of his term.

More broadly, a late October NBC News poll found that 53% of registered voters said his administration has fallen short of their expectations on foreign policy. Well, 44% said it's lived up to expectations. And a new CNN poll found that 57% of adults think that Trump's foreign policy decisions have hurt America standing in the world, while 31% said they've helped. Now, Ryan, I remember a lot in the first Trump term, polling going one direction, media narratives going in one direction, Russia being a good example, immigration, actually being another really good example.

This feels very similar to what happened when the kids in cages narrative exploded. That was like the summer of 2017, 2018, summer around there. 18, yeah. And what ends up happening, or at least what ended up happening then, obviously his term ended with COVID. But his approval ratings before COVID hit, the economy was pretty strong. His approval ratings were okay. And it shouldn't be taken as licensed by Democrats to go back. And it's interesting because you're seeing the whole abolish ICE.

And you and I disagree on this. But you're seeing Zohamam Dani. We have this later in the show, him talking about abolish ICE. And it's not just about immigration. it's about issues across the board, he benefits a lot from the reaction, from Democrats. It's not, this polling isn't an approval rating, like disapproving with Trump doesn't, disapproving of Trump doesn't equate to approving of a particular Dem policy or a particular reaction. We'll see. It might end up being different this time because in 2018, there was kids in cages and the kids were not being,

kids were being treated terribly, and there was this child separation policy that was new. Obama had put families in cages. They didn't have a child separation policy. And we hit Obama for it, so don't get out of the, get out of here with your hypothesis. The media at large, I would say, did not. Right, exactly. Media large, that's fine. Ryan Grim.

Yes, but me? You can always count on this guy. And, you know, Huffington Post, we worked with some Breitbart reporters at the time. Yes. Because Breitbart, at the time, not a fan of the way that the migrants were being treated down on the border. They've kind of dropped some of that coverage since then. But so at the time, the Abolished ICE movement was a kind of way to try to take Trump's entire immigration policy and symbolize it into the entity of ICE. Yeah.

And then focus your ire on ice. Right. Today, when they say abolish ice, they mean it quite literally, that it is a rogue agency that is whose agents are doing terrible things on the streets and it needs to be broken up up and its enforcement mechanisms distributed to agencies that are not rogue. So it's gone from symbolic to like literal. Like people, so when, and now when you poll, should you abolish ICE, American people, people, it's very close and it's within the margin of error, but it's gone up. There's a plurality,

at least, that say, yes, actually abolish ICE. And Democrats, it's increasing with Democrats as well, but this is sort of exactly, it's a majority of Democrats. Yeah, but this is exactly kind of what I was like remembering back from Trump One is that it's similar to mass deportations. So you say you want mass deportations and then here's what mass deportations look like in practice from the Trump administration and people start disapproving of this handling of immigration. And then if you're at Dems, you say, okay, we have support from our party. There's a plurality of Americans for Abolish ICE. Here's what Abolished Ice looks like in practice. Or here's what from the first term, we have support for ending Trump's cruel and humane immigration policy. And here's what it looks

like in practice. It looks like the Biden administration immigration policy. That's what I was saying is that the tug of war there is it's not. And I know Dembs, are kind of coping with that right now, and Third Way is out there upset about the hashtag abolish ICE. But the politics and the policy are obviously sometimes separate. A key difference here.

Trump and ICE have lost the cops in Minnesota. Like, sit down, buckle up because this is an utterly striking press conference from police chiefs in Minnesota telling ICE, well, listen to them. Yeah, let's get to this. Recently, as the last two weeks, we as law enforcement community

have been receiving endless complaints about civil rights violations and our streets from U.S. citizens. What we're hearing is they're being stopped in traffic stops or on the street with no cause and being forced to demand paperwork to determine if they're hearing. are here legally. As this went on over the past two weeks, we started hearing from our police

officers the same complaints as they fell victim to this while off duty. Every one of these individuals is a person of color who has had this happen to them. In Brooklyn Park, one particular officer that shared her story with me was stopped as she passed ice going down the roadway. When they boxed her in, they demanded her paperwork of which she's a U.S. citizen and clearly would not have any paperwork. When she became concerned about the rhetoric and the way she was being treated, she pulled out her phone. In an attempt to record the incident, the phone was knocked out of her hands, prevented her from recording it. The officer had their guns drawn during this interaction, and after the officer became so concerned, they were forced to identify themselves as a Brooklyn Park police officer.

in hopes of slowing the incident and de-escalating the incident down. The agents then immediately left after hearing this, making no other comments, no other apologies, just got in their vehicles and left. I wish I could tell you that this was an isolated incident. In fact, many of the chief standing behind me have similar incidents with their off-duty officers. If it is happening to our officers, it pains me to think of how many of our community members are falling victim to this every day.

And that last line, I think it's really important. That police chief found empathy with the citizens and the everyday people of the area. He said, imagine if it's happening to us, to cops, God only knows what they're doing to regular people. Well, we do know because people like Will Stancel and so many others are out there filming it and letting us know. I like I used to people like Will Stancel. So to be clear, this is three law enforcement officers you saw them on your screen. This is the chief of the Brooklyn Park Police Department, the St. Paul Police Chief, and then also the Hennepin County Sheriff. You want to know what my evenings actually look like?

Homework questions. Someone needs a permission slip signed. The dog's begging for a walk. Someone's yelling for a snack. And somewhere in the middle of all that, I'm supposed to figure out dinner? That's why Hello Fresh has been a lifesaver. Fresh ingredients show up at my door, locally sourced when possible, simple step-by-step recipes that actually make sense. And no matter how chaotic the rest of my night gets, dinner is the one thing I don't have to stress about.

I'm just cooking a delicious meal my family will actually eat, and it takes around 30 minutes. And honestly, the real value is knowing that even on the messiest nights, dinner's handled. That's one less thing pulling at me, and that matters. Take some stress out of your evenings right now, get 50% off your first box, plus free sides for life. That's right. Free sides for life. Go to Hellofresh.cate and use code rescue 50.

That's Hellofresh.cate code rescue 50. HelloFresh. Canada's number one meal kit delivery service. Hey, what's up y'all? This is Questlove recently. I had the opportunity to sit down with Aesap Rocky ahead of his album release. Don't be dumb.

He reflects on his journey from his Harlem roots to global icon status, discovering the hip-hop origin of his name. The Ledge. was on the TV. Raq Kim had the bucket hat Cango during the Apos. I was like, that's Raq Kim. That's who you named after.

I just was like, damn, that fucking got swag. Rocky offers a window into not only a boundary-breaking artist, but as a man committed to fusing creative ideas, community, and remaining unapologetically himself. Have you ever gotten roasted for any of your outfits? For sure. Some people don't be getting to vision. Look, they could roast me, they could cook me,

they could deep-fribe meat, they could salt. take whatever they want. It's nobody who can be with my fashion since and my taste is impeccable. I'm just like, I impress myself a lot. It's an amazing conversation. One, you definitely don't want to miss. So listen to the Questlove show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. New Year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever.

I am Matt, and I'm Joel. We are from the How to Money podcast, and every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to How to Money on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's who you saw on the screen just now, and that's who you were listening to. Those are big dogs in that area. This is, you know, you heard this quote, if it is happening to our officers, pains me to think of how many of our community members are falling victim to this every day. It has to

stop. And they go on at one point to say that they don't even necessarily want ICE gone out of the city. They just want to find, I think the quote, is common ground. Yeah, exactly. They started that press commas, we didn't play this part. They started by saying, we're all for what ICE is doing. We have had respectful, collaborative working relationships with ICE in the past. Although that's tougher if you're the Hennepin County Sheriff because they have... Yeah, so there are sanctuary policies that prevent them from turning over nonviolent, undocumented people to ICE, but they're allowed to work together with violent criminals who are undocumented. And whatever you want to say, like, these are cops who are saying that, like, we, look, we have a lot of respect for ICE.

We're not against the idea of immigration enforcement. but there's a way to go about it and there's a way not to go about it and you're doing the not the way to go about it watching ice go around brutalizing people on an hourly basis has done more to i think lift the public opinion of local police forces than anything in decades people are like oh wow like okay i'm not here i'm not going to be out of here marching you know for our police but they're downright civilized it creates a contrast yes like wow turns out it can be a lot worse. So let's look at Pramila Jayapal who says, posted this Washington Post article, quote, two men in ICE detention say they saw guards kill a fellow detainee. Now the

Trump administration is trying to deport the witnesses. This looks a lot like a cover-up. We need an independent investigation now. That's from Representative Jayapal. The piece is from the Washington Post. Ryan, it's an interesting story from the Post. The allegations are that Geraldo Lunes Campos at this... This is the guy we covered last week. Yeah. And what's this detention facility? East Montana.

In El Paso. In Fort Bliss. Yeah. It's not actually in Montana. Right. But that he, quote, I'm reading this, was engaged in a struggle with guards before his death. Flores, so this is Santos Jesus Flores, who is one of the witnesses Jaya Paul is referring

to in her post on acts, quote, claim he saw guards choking Lunas compos to death. The story is interesting. That sounds impossible because according to DHS, he was trying to commit suicide. Right. That's what they... And the DHS officers intervened to try to save his life. Unfortunately, they were unsuccessful and he committed suicide. So it couldn't be that there are witnesses that are telling a different story than DHS,

because DHS, whatever you want to say about them, they are at least honest narrators of their own actions, right? And one interesting point here is... That's sarcasm, but... One issue point is he, the witnesses are saying he was claiming he needed medication, says he has asthma, but his family doesn't seem to know that he has asthma or doesn't seem to believe that he has asthma, but where this gets really tough for ICE is that a preliminary autopsy came back and said that he died by strangulation. So that's where it's going to get, for ICE, that's a, is a pretty devastating. So this is on, to the point,

Post, an employee of El Paso County's office of the medical examiner had said in a recorded phone call that the office is likely to classify Lunas Campos death as a homicide, subject to the results of a toxicology report. The employee said a doctor there is, quote, listing the preliminary cause of death as asphyxia due to neck and chest compression, which means Lunas Compost did not get enough oxygen because of pressure on his neck and chest. So if that holds, that's devastating for the ICE narrative. And yes, and fortunately for the country,

We don't have to like sit around and figure out how to create a system to adjudicate situations like this. We have one. We charge people with crimes. We put them in front of a jury of peers. You have witnesses who testify to what they saw. You have toxicologists and you have other doctors testify as to what they've seen. the people charged can testify in their own defense if they wish or they have a Fifth Amendment right not to. And because we care so much about this system, we even created a thing called a U visa, which if you are a witness to a crime in an ongoing investigation, you are entitled to what's called a U visa.

And it's straightforward. If all you need is the certification from prosecutors that you're a witness to a crime and you get a temporary U visa, which means you cannot be deported until the trial plays out. How is any of this complicated? Like, you cannot deport the witness who contradicts your claim that you did not kill this person. Like, that is the most basic level of our justice system and an approach to these cases.

So we can put the next element up on the screen. This is from popular information, Judge Legum. ICE has stopped paying for detainee. medical treatment. Legum is reporting, quote, ice- halted payments in October, and the situation will persist for at least several more months. What do you make of this report, Ryan? They have, and we've talked about this in the mass, more money in their budget than they will ever be able to spend. They cannot hire enough people and buy enough equipment to spend the amount of money that has been

appropriated to them. They, their, ICE's budget is greater than all but like five militaries in the world or something like that. Like that's how, that's how much money they have. This is not about not having the money to pay your third party medical providers. This is about emiserating and in some cases killing the people that are in your custody. There's no other, way to see this. So this is from, like him, he said, ISIS failure to pay its bills for months has caused some medical providers to deny services to ICE detainees. So that's, it's not just a matter of the payments haven't been made.

It's that the payments aren't being made, to Ryan's point, quote, administration source who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the press, told popular information this bit. And quote, in other cases, Legum rights, detainees have allegedly been denied essential medical care by ICE. Yeah, I mean, that's a, I haven't seen this report elsewhere. I will expect, I will expect this to get picked up and not just on, you know, substacks, but like you would expect this to be on NBC and ABC and Ball Post. Yeah, it could get as well sourced there. They could maybe get this. Hey, if they've paid the bills, you know, post the invoice. That's not the risk of

a substack at all, by the way, either. That's just to say that it, I was, I was, No shade. Trying to say that it's the momentum builds. Right. And it becomes a point where... Oh yeah, no shade here. Yeah. But in the... Actually, speaking of shade, in the shade of media reports,

you can kind of get away with funny business like that. No, for sure. So that's... I would expect that to become probably more of an issue for ICE. Although, when, you know, you have alleged illegal immigrants detained, then it's not a particularly sympathetic group. It's just like the entire conversation about prisoners, not being entirely sympathetic.

It's politically not a huge winner for Democrats to make a big deal of ICE detainees. It's obviously a human rights issue, but it's not politically going to be a big winner, so maybe it doesn't end up ever getting that momentum. They say these payments can't be processed until April. That's what it says on the website until April 30th, 2026. Until then, like them, rights, medical providers are instructed to hold all claims submissions. insane one man that is standing up this and i i feel no sympathy for ice because ice knew ahead of time they have an entire intelligence arm that will stansell was in minneapolis if there's one thing

everyone on the internet knows is that will stansell is in minneapolis and ice decided to make their stand in minneapolis anyway despite the presence of will stancel is what you're saying And look what they're getting. Somebody posted footage the other day of an ice, ice was like grabbing somebody. They're like, wait a minute, is that Will Stancel right in the back? There he was. Right next to the cop. He's been posting some footage too from his own, from his Honda Fit.

He's on the case. What he's doing, and we can roll this. I don't know. Well, I think it's a thought. Let's roll this. And then we can explain what he's doing. Here's the great Will Stancel. I've got six cars in convoy behind me.

So who knows what's about to happen here. Keep going, buddy. It's my home. Get out. I won't do that. I'm following. You have a constitutional right. I know you know where I live. I don't care. You go home. Where are you from? You arrest me for following. You may as well just do it because I'm going to keep doing it. I have a right to do this or I don't. If I don't, you should arrest me right now.

And if I do, stop doing this weird. crap. So if you don't kind of live in the bowels of the internet Will Stancel is a liberal who first rose to kind of Twitter prominence fighting with leftists like yours truly

attack me constantly he then started going after these white nationalists and driving them as completely insane as he drove the left insane earlier. Then the Wright made an AI.

I forgot about that. There's a series out there. I watched one or two episodes. They're fairly well done. Just as a piece of like entertainment, shockingly. It's like the first like AI created series with Will Stancel as like the like mock superhero character.

Couldn't have happened to a better guy. He ran first. state house, I think. Minnesota lost, regrettably. But whatever you can say him on him, he's not, you can't say he doesn't put his money where his mouth is. He has

been relentlessly tracking ICE around the city. What he has said is that the reason it's so important to do this is not just to make a scene, but that when ICE grabs somebody, so he follows them all day long. So he has like a

view of not just what they do when the crowds, around, but when the crowds are not around. What they do is, he says, they look for people with darker skin who are by themselves. They pull over, grab them, and put them in the van, like in a matter of seconds. And then they figure out from there at that point, is this person a citizen, are they not? Did we arrest the wrong person? And so what Will said he and the other activists they're doing is before they get the guy into the van, they'll shout, or the woman, what is your name? Who are you? And if you don't get their name, according to Will, then they're just gone. Like, they are just into the system. And wherever they were going, the people are like,

where's Steve? Like Steve said he'd be here by five. He's not here. Call the hospitals, call the police. nothing. There's no calling ice and finding out. Like it's going to take you, if you, for a lot of these people, they are deported before you even figure out, you know, where they went. And so from Will's perspective, it's so important to follow them around just to like, because if you don't catch that name, the person just disappears. And so despite all our beef in the past, critical support to Will. He's, you know, he's really, he's laying it on the line. Um, so good for him. It's, there's nothing more American to me than like exercising your rights in the most obnoxious way possible. That is, that is truly American. But the background that

you gave is actually, I think, helpful to the context here, which is that Stancel rose to prominence on like the online left or in the sphere of the online left because he was going after left. And here you have Will Stancel himself in a car honking, doing the ice watch. That I think is in and of itself a statement on where the left is going towards. Right. And he would say there's, he would say that there's nothing contradictory or inconsistent about that, that, that he believes in a robust liberalism that is anti-fascist, that stands up for all of the rights of the Constitution, and that the left is sometimes not even, supportive of some of those rights that are in the Constitution, and also they're an electoral

liability because nobody likes them, and you know, lump the Democratic Party in with the far left, and it hurts them. Like, that's his, that's his, that's his view on this. But, you know, he has, he has hated the right and what it stands for passionately since, ever since I've known him, he just, he just kind of thought the left was an obstacle to him fighting the right. But yeah, here he is. Man. Like, man. A man of the people.

A man of the people. It is hot of fit, ripping around Minneapolis. Rippin around. Just, he's not letting these guys get away. So we can put the next element up on the stream. This is a New York Times report from Miami, finding that a record number of Cubans have been deported, Cubans in Florida have been deported, quote,

to their shock, Cubans in Florida are being deported in record numbers. Now, to be fair, the repatriation under Donald Trump is like 1600 Cubans. That's according to the Cuban government in 2025. But even that 1600 number is, quote, double the number of Cubans who were repatriated in 2024. There was a big wave of Cubans going through like flying to Venezuela, going up through the Darian Gap, up through Mexico. I talked to a couple of them who had done this after the July protests. And some would fly to just Nicaragua.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. After the July, what was the July 11th protest, 2021? Yeah, right, yeah, exactly. So getting on flights, it costs a ton of money. If I'm remembering correctly, one of the people I talked to said it was like $11,000 for the whole thing. And not a, like, luxurious trip at all.

It was like $11,000 to make your way through the Dary and Gap and sit at the border in shelters for months, just hoping you could get in. But that's where for Republicans, traditionally, it's been, you could just touch. American soil and if you're Cuban yeah and Venezuelan for that matter yeah and Venezuelan but that's different now there was again a big big big wave of Cuban and Venezuela immigration um especially Cubans after 2021 so that's what this is in reaction to but definitely a changed a changed time right now for immigration policy and uh oh none of this had to happen like Obama normalized relations with Cuba in 2015. Like, we could have just left it at that.

Obama was like, okay, we've been doing this 50-year embargo. Like, enough. Like, what are we going to do? We're not threatened by Cuba. They're not going to invade us. The Cuban government could have also not beaten people in the streets in 2021. Well, the American government could not beat people I talked to. The American government could not beat people in streets

today. Like, yeah. I mean, that doesn't have anything to do with. Yes, both true. Yes. But right, like, there's also a relationship between some sanctions and embargoes. and liberalization. Yeah. You, the more pressure you put on a government, the less room they have to engage in

political reforms. That doesn't justify the crackdown, but it is a, it's a factor in it. Yeah, I don't disagree. If you want, and the same is true with like liberalizing and opening up markets more in Cuba, you know, that would probably, that would, that would create some problems with people who are getting supports in the first couple of weeks, maybe even months. And so you need some political cushion in order to pull off those reforms. But if you don't have any political cushion, you're just going to keep the same sclerotic system going forever. So as soon as Trump came in,

he reinstituted sanctions and embargo. Biden was awful on it. And Trump has been even worse since then. And you've had something like a third of the population leave in just like five years or so. Like if you look at, there was some protests after Maduro's ouster. If you looked at footage of the crowds, very few of young people in the crowd. Anybody in their 20s, 30s, late teens has, that can and that's, you know, and they're allowed, you're allowed. You're allowed. You're allowed. to leave, so they just leave. And so they've, and only maybe

10, 15% have come to the U.S. Like, they're flooding South America. South America. Central America as well. Yeah. To the point where there's a similar discourse on immigration in places like Chile and other South American countries. Yeah. Yeah, and Colombia's stacked with Venezuela and it too. Right, yes.

And it didn't have to happen. And we'll talk about Iran too. We had the nuclear deal. Like, what are like, what are we doing? Why are we doing all this? Who are we doing this for? Let's take a look here at C6. This is a 60 Minutes report. Speaking of DHS and its accuracy.

Yeah, let's go ahead and roll this. Just ran in the after show, not the real show. So this is, yeah, so I'll just read the tweet before I roll the video. 60 Minutes posted Chris Parente, a lawyer for a Chicago woman who was shot by a Border Patrol agent in October, showed 60 Minutes new video evidence that he says contradicts a claim that the agents were, quote, boxed in by 10 cars. Quote, I don't see 10 people and I certainly don't see anybody in front of him, Parente said.

Let's roll the clip. DHS released a statement saying that their agents were boxed in by 10 cars. They couldn't move. What does the video that you obtained from our surveillance camera show? There was nobody in front of this agent. If he simply wanted to move forward on the street in the direction he was going, he could have continued on. It shows there's nobody to the left of his vehicle.

Why don't you play the video as you've- got it set up and kind of walk me through what we see. Okay. So this construction barrier that you see here, that is where eventually you're going to see the hood of the agent's car stop. You see the front. You see the front. That is the front of the agent's car. The quote ramming has just happened. And right now the agent is opening his driver's side door. He's jumping out and within two seconds, according to a stopwatch, he's shooting his gun five times. So now you'll see Marimar's car sort of come at a bend. So she's in the far left lane. She goes towards the curb away from the agents and then comes back.

You've seen no evidence of 10 people, a caravan anywhere. I don't see 10 people, and I certainly don't see anybody in the lane in front of him. Why can he not go forward? Court proceedings also uncovered text messages from Agent Exum. In one exchange with fellow agents, he appeared to brag about the shooting, writing, quote, I fired five rounds and she had seven holes. Put that in your book, boys. Body camera footage discussed in court also revealed that an agent in Exum's car,

while holding a weapon, said, do something, bitch. Seconds later, Agent Exum opened fire. So that is in reference to the case of Marmar Martinez. This is from October 4th. And the run-up to it, I'm reading again from the 60 Minutes report, she said she noticed an unusual vehicle on the road when she was driving to church. It had no plates, a light under the windshield with a lift logo, and a driver that was wearing green camouflage,

Martinez, an American citizen. Then honked her horn and shouted La Migra, a Spanish word used among members of Latino community to identify immigration officers. She said she followed the car for about 20 minutes, alerting nearby residents by honking and shouting while live streaming on Facebook. And that's when things took a dramatic turn. And that's where the video picked up Ryan. Yeah. And so then according to DHS, I think it was Trish McLaughlin special again, 10 cars boxed in this agent and rammed the vehicle. completely fabricated.

The guy just got out. So this is, of the two high-profile cases of women being shot in their cars by ICE agents, both have been called the B word. Renee Good was called that after she was killed, although she was still alive before they, you know, she had a pulse for another eight minutes, but they prevented her from getting medical treatment. This woman was called.

it right before he tried to kill her, and then brags that he shot her five times and put, put, quote, seven holes in her. That's because she was probably instinctively covering, protecting herself with her bare hands. So congratulations, you tough guy. You shot an unarmed woman who tried to protect herself with her bare hands, and you managed to put a bullet through her arm that also then went into her body. And then she managed to live at like, absolute, absolute miracle. She did actually have a gun in her purse, but she wasn't able to get to it. Yeah. No, that's what it's it. She did actually have a gun in her purse. She said she wasn't able to get to it in time, but she has it because she lives on the south side of Chicago is what she said.

One of these cops, and I want to, I'm curious how y'all are going to respond to this. One of these cops is going to get shot. Yeah, I think it's absolutely true. And it's, but that's Because, and it will be in self-defense. And then where's the back, the blue, versus the stay-in-your-ground types? How are you going to handle that? This is what's frustrating to me, because one of the things that we disagree on, and I would certainly disagree with Martinez on this, is following ICE agents with your car for 20 minutes and honking incessantly, is interfering with their ability to do their job.

That's the entire point of the protest. Civil disobedience. I don't think that necessarily crosses into breaking the law, but it's not helping the situation. Obviously, the goal of it is to ensure that people don't get picked up, potentially American citizens. I get it, whatever else. I think a lot of this comes from people who just blankly want or categorically want pathway to citizenship for people who are here. They don't want, you know, non-violent criminals to be deported. And, you know, I completely disagree with that.

and most of the American people completely disagree with that. So if you want to get arrested as an act of civil disobedience, own it. Say I'm getting arrested as an active civil disobedience. As you acknowledge, it's not a crime. No, not yet. No, no, not yet. But that's what I'm saying.

It's building to something that we already saw what happened with Renee Good. It's building to something that I think is going to get even uglier. And I think everybody senses and everybody is kind of unsettled by that. And I'm not at all just blaming the Ice Watchers. I'm saying when you're looking at, as we just saw, those clips of cops in Minneapolis, saying they want to come back to a place of common ground with ice. It's, yeah, I think it's a, we're seeing the beginning of something that could get even worse. Well, I hope we're seeing the end of it.

Think about what you learn in elementary school about what the United States is. The consent of the governed is required for the government, to have legitimacy. Like, that is the, that is the basis on which we overthrew the British. That is the basis on which we built the United States, the consent of the governed, of the people, by the people, for the people. You know, who doesn't get horns honked at them and constantly harassed walking up and down the street, even though they've complained about they don't get enough respect, local police forces. Cops who drive through a neighborhood or are walking a beat are not surrounded by groups of people honking at them and telling them to go home. I think they would be

if they were deporting people, which is what? They would be if they were doing things that the governed do not consent to. So ICE has lost the people. It is not the people's fault. The people were here first. Ice is a government agency that is coming into these neighborhoods. They need to win over the community. We're here first. We're here first. And also, we are the we. Like, we are the ones that govern ourselves in a democracy. And if you want to, you know, if you want to be a law enforcement agency in a democracy, you need the support of the people. You can't do, this is not Vietnam. We're going to go in, just mow down the villagers and burn the village in order to save it. Like, you have to actually win hearts

minds, not the fake way. Well, yeah, I mean, then I think activists should also police themselves when people are throwing stuff at the ICE officers and touching the ICE officers standing in front of cars. Don't do crimes. Don't assault them. Right. Well, I just, I say that because I do genuinely worried about things getting even worse and more dangerous. I think we all worry about that. My sense is that you, to your point about, is this the end of a bad situation? I just think it's the opposite. I think it feels to me like something is continuing to be. build because, yeah, I don't know. I just have a bad feeling about it. Might be, but there's 20,000 of them, there's more than 300 million of us.

So they're going to have to, if they insist on doing this by force rather than through consent, then yes, they're going to have to bring a lot more force. But I hope that they would try to go the consent route. Hello, hello, all my people, what's up? It's Questlove. Recently, I had the opportunity to sit down with the one and only ASAP Rocky. He reflects on his journey from Harlem Roots to global icon status and discovering the hip-hop origin of his

name. The ledge was on the TV. Rakim had the bucket hat Kangold join on. Apostle. That's Rakim. That's who you named after. I just, like, damn that fucking I swear. But listen to the Questlove show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. A new year doesn't ask us to become someone new. It invites us back home to ourselves. I'm Mike Delarocha, a host of Sacred Lessons, a space for men to pause, reflect, and heal. This year, we're talking honestly about mental health, relationships, and the patterns we're ready to release.

If you're looking for clarity, connection, and healthier ways to show up in your life, Sacred Lessons is here for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Delaroach on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken. But what if the real work isn't physical at all?

I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name. Part of the way through the Valley of Despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward. Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to the mailroom on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.