Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 12/16/24: Air Force Base Closed Over Drones, CEOs Panic After Assassination, Biden Pardons Crooked Judge, Pelosi Hospitalized

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

Krystal and Saagar discuss Air Force base closes over drones, CEOs panic over slain healthcare exec, Biden pardons crooked judge, Pelosi hospitalized after fall.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.com   Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator,

and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now.

Let me hear it. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastain.

And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at BreakingPoints.com. Good morning, everybody.

Happy Monday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal? Indeed we do. A lot of interesting things that are happening in the world. So what the hell is going on in New Jersey? It's an evergreen question, really. But this morning we'll be exploring specifically with regards to these drones that people are reporting. Reporters have seen them. The U.S. government is not

answering any questions. So we will evaluate some of the various theories that are out there. We also have some updates on Luigi Mangione and the incredible Fox News segment where they're literally calling for Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren to resign from the Senate because of their comments expressing why people feel so much anger at the healthcare industry. Joe Biden issued a raft of pardons, and one of them in particular is truly horrible. Break that down for you. We also have an update on Nancy Pelosi. She injured herself pretty significantly in a fall overseas. Why the hell are our nation's leaders so damn old? That is another question we will explore yet again. I think you've actually done some of

the best commentary on this particular question, so we can revisit some of that. ABC News settling with Trump, giving his presidential library $15 million to settle this defamation case. It's kind of a wild turn of events, so we'll break down what may be going on there. I'm taking a look at Trump's plans for a massive giveaway to crypto billionaires. And the man, the myth, the legend, Scott Horton is going to be here to talk about his new book on Ukraine, Provoked. Really excited for that conversation. Been looking forward to that one. It's like an encyclopedia of knowledge.

His brain is incredible. Truly incredible. You guys should see that book, too. I think we have a copy around here somewhere. I was flipping through it. The text size is so tiny, and it's still like 800 pages. It's just incredible. Unbelievable number of footnotes.

And I just have the feeling that he's the type of guy who could just sit down and write it without even looking up. It's just all in there, in the noggin. So let's help Scott sell some books. I want links down in the description. Thank you to everybody, premium subscribers. We really appreciate you, especially in the holiday season. So you can become one, breakingpoints.com. We appreciate your support. We've got big plans in the new year, lots of meetings and things happening around here. And I think that you guys will really enjoy that. So if you want to be the first. And big plans specifically for premium subscribers that we are talking through.

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with that, let's get to New Jersey. New Jersey. As we brought you all the news on Thursday, the mystery was beginning and it certainly had reached what I thought was the peak. And then even more drones began to appear, even more lies from the United States government. I wanted to start it off with a friend of the show, Rich McHugh's report from NewsNation. Rich, for those who don't remember, previously worked at NBC News with Ronan Farrow. He was one of the reporters who helped blow open the Harvey Weinstein investigation, as well as a lot of other stories that were buried actually by NBC News. He is a absolute straight down the line shooter

reporter. And here is his report on the New Jersey drones. You can see that he himself was skeptical going in, but this is what he had to say. Let's take a listen. I got to be honest here. You know, when this story first came out a few weeks ago, as a resident of New Jersey, as a journalist, I didn't pay it much credence. I thought it would turn out to be a bunch of pranksters and this would all be over by now. The experience I had last night, however, changed the way I feel about this story completely. What I saw was more sophisticated than I ever imagined.

Take a look. One, two, three, four, five, at least five lights, six lights. I didn't believe what I was seeing, but what was I seeing? We're here in central Jersey. We've been looking for the past hour. I think we've seen about 40 or 50 of these drones.

In fact, there's one over my shoulder right there. One after another, after another, these drones appeared in the night sky. If you look real close, they look like fixed wing aircraft. About eight to ten feet wide, colorful, white blinking lights. That is not a plane. Definitely not an airplane, but what was it? Hours earlier, I was invited to join the Ocean County Sheriff Department. They launched their own drones to see if they could

intercept the mysterious aircraft New Jersey residents have been reporting in recent weeks. The department says these mystery drones evade detection because they don't give off heat like regular drones. Why do you think that is? We don't know, it's just something that we haven't, you know, it's not something that we've had our hands on. It's not something that we've experienced. Something they hadn't experienced until now. One of their officers called 911 after seeing 50 of them come off the ocean. Advised after we made contact with that officer

that there were 50 that came off the ocean. 50? Five zero. That was my reaction also. There were 50 that were coming off the ocean. And this is a sworn officer? A sworn officer, yes. We contacted state police. We contacted the FBI. We contacted the Coast Guard, at which point the Coast Guard went out with their boat, and they reported seeing 13 on their boat.

And then the Coast Guard also advised that they went over them about 300 feet and had a wingspan of about eight feet. So there you go. All the hallmarks, you might say, of a UFO, full-blown UFO sighting. So I want to note a couple of characteristics. Number one, heat signature. That's one that has been well known all the way going back to David Fravor and his initial encounter with the Tic Tac UFO. You also note that this is over the ocean that then comes on land. Three is one that happens, what, near a United States military installation. On Thursday, Crystal, we confirmed via a statement from the Naval Air Station, Naval Station Earl, that there had been a confirmed sighting over that. And yet, despite all of this,

we are told by our government, absolutely nothing to see here. I'm again just going to show people the images. You can decide for yourself. Some, they say, are commercial aircraft or fixed-wing aircraft, small planes. Let's take a view actually here. We have some of these images. Here's one from Flanders, New Jersey, December 3rd, 2024. This is one of the early sightings.

You can see lights there in the sky. All the images that we have pulled, by the way, are from the Associated Press and others that have been vetted. This one is particularly interesting. You can see that glowing orb. I will note for some of those who see that glowing kind of circular nature, some of that can sometimes be ascribed to a camera effect as it tries to lock in on the lights.

But the lights themselves and the number of drones, lights in the sky, and others being observed simply just do not comport with any traditional explanation of a private plane or a small plane or commercial aircraft and others. Keep in mind, all of those can be tracked very easily. If anybody has, I live near an airport, so I do this sometimes. I open up my app and I just look up in the sky and I can say, oh, that's American Airlines 232 coming from Orlando. Or like, oh, that's a small plane coming from, you know, wherever. It's actually a fun thing to do if you live near the airport. Yeah, it's fun.

You know where the best place to do it is? Palm Springs or somewhere with totally clear skies. You can see everything that is up there. But my point is that with all this, none of these have ascribed tail numbers or others. They can't explain this one away. And yet they are doing everything their damnedest. While the locals are freaking out, while the state police, while the governor and others are saying we have a full-blown crisis on our hand, the feds are the ones who are telling us absolutely nothing to see here at all, Crystal. Yeah. I mean, their instinct is always,

in every circumstance, extreme secrecy. But they want to say, like, oh, it's nothing to worry about. And then it's like, okay, well, if you can't tell us what it is, how can you assure us that it's nothing to worry about? John Kirby, you know, at the podium, this man is very schooled in lying and obfuscating all the time about all topics. Here he is getting asked about these, I don't know why exactly we're calling them drones, I guess because of their size, but. Yeah, well, because of their movement patterns too and the way that they're flying.

I mean, you're right. I mean, calling it a drone or whatever is kind of, it kind of caught on. I don't really know why. I guess people assumed they were drones in the beginning. You're right. I mean, UFO is literally the correct terminology, but. In any case, let's take a listen to John Kirby

trying to reassure us, but also trying to give us absolutely no information. If the president as commander in chief believed, based on the information that he'd been given, that there was a national security threat at play here, or even a public safety threat at play here, he would issue the appropriate directives to not only law enforcement, but perhaps even the military if that was needed. I want to go back to something I said at the top. There has been no evidence of any of this activity in or near restricted spaces. That's not what the senators said in

the letter. They said, in fact, that they've been observed maneuvering their critical infrastructure, sensitive locations, including reservoirs and military installations, and cited concern from law enforcement about public safety threats because a medevac helicopter was prevented from transporting a seriously injured patient for air because of the presence of these drones. I stand by my opening statement. Can you make that make more sense? Because I think people in New York and New Jersey see drones the size of an SUV over their house every night and think that that doesn't make any sense.

Certainly I understand why people would be looking at this and being concerned about it. We're concerned about it too, which is why we have the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI, my goodness, looking at this and we're taking it seriously. My goodness, my goodness. I like that lady's energy. She's like, can you make it make more sense? And he's like, basically, no. It's a total lie. As I just said, the naval station themselves confirmed the drone sighting.

Furthermore, let's put this one up there on the screen. This broke yesterday from the war zone. Excellent outlet. They do tremendous work over there. Drone incurred. This is all the way in Ohio, right? Patterson Air Force Base was closed on Friday night after the detection, quote, of small aerial systems that were spotted over Wright-Patterson. You can even listen to

some of the audio. We didn't have time to put it in here, but it is astounding. They say drones, quote, ranging in sizes and configurations, swarmed the base. Quote, our units are working with local authorities to ensure the safety of base personnel, facility, and base. Quote, our units are working with local authorities to ensure the safety of base personnel, facility, and assets. I mean, we have also had reports in Florida, as far away. I mean, literally all over the country. All of them, same thing, have in common, which is, yes, they're overpopulation, but many of them are United States military installations. Here we have New Jersey State Senator who has been briefed on some of the information, accusing the federal government of a full-blown cover-up. Let's take a listen.

You know, this started as some questions, and now it's reached a point of almost insanity. You think about a United States Senator who has to go out with the local police to look for drones. That's where a United States senator is getting information. We had a briefing from the state police, the colonel in the state police. He was frustrated. He had no idea where these drones were coming from. Not only did I call for a limited state of emergency and the FAA shutting down the airspace for drones, but also having the Department of Defense come in and answer questions. If the Department of Defense doesn't know where the origins are for these so-called drones, then we're in trouble. So my guess is there is information, but they're holding it back. And now what you have is panic.

Originally some questions. Now you have serious, serious concerns. And at the next point, somebody is going to do something stupid. Yeah, we are in full-blown panic mode. Now people are even shooting at him, apparently, in some jurisdictions, even though authorities are like, please don't do that. Let's put this one up there on the screen. Donald Trump, president-elect, says, quote, mystery drone sightings all over the country. Can this really be happening without our government's knowledge? I don't think so.

Or he says, I don't think so. Let the public know and now otherwise shot them down. So you can see that's a clearly wrote that one. Typical eloquence. Definitely wrote that one himself. From DJT. You know, it's funny if you think back to the Kirby one and he's like, if the president of the United States thought, I'm like, well, does he think anything? I mean, that's number one. Does he have a brain? Right. Does he have a literal brain power to be able to think anything? Who's in charge of this situation?

So, look, that's really what we know right now. I mean, again, at this point, sure, people are panicked. They're looking up at the sky probably more so than normal. And they may be reporting some that are,-wing aircraft, commercial aircraft, et cetera. But, and I think this is the key, you cannot, as Rich laid out there, as the state police and others have shown, there have been too many now encounters, pictures, videos, reports from the state and local authorities to just wash this one away. The feds, they just tell us there's nothing to worry about here. I just don't believe them. I mean, look, we have two options. Either it's them or they have no idea. I'm in the no idea camp. I think that they don't want to panic people. They just simply have no clue what the hell is happening. And again, this

is exactly like other UFO sightings in the past where they just hope that the public moves on. I mean, this has a lot of character. There was a swarm in Belgium in the 1990s. This is very similar. There have been similar incidents that happened near San Diego. That's where the Tic Tac incident occurred. There have been incidents, like I just said, in Wright-Patterson that has now happened. But New Jersey is the most high profile.

I think probably just because it's the most populated. Off the coast of Virginia Beach, too. Off the coast of Virginia Beach. Another significant military installation there. Anyone want to tell me what's in Virginia Beach? Exactly. Thank you. It's like, you know, it doesn't take a genius to figure some of this stuff out. And yet, they continue to tell us that there's nothing to see.

And so, look, if it is a government program, I mean, first of all, it's kind of interesting, extraordinary. You were able to develop a drone with no heat signature and to be able to evade all of these other state and local technology. Possible, possible, right? I don't have that much faith in our government. The other option is that we just don't know. It could be a foreign adversary. They claim it's not, you know, and others. I guess theoretically it could be China, Russia, or it's just simply completely unexplained. But I mean, the truth is, is that they are, it's a full-blown cover-up. They're basically pumping the information full of lies. I guess

the good news is that the state and the local authorities are so freaked out because they have so many, they have to deal with the actual people that are continuing to pressure the government. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye.

Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head

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So theory number one, that people are just having like mass hysteria, imagining things. I agree with you. You can basically rule that out. I do think some, like the Maryland governor, for example, is like, oh my God, I saw them. People were like, that's literally a constellation. Relax. There is some of that going on. Certainly as people are taking in this news, looking up at the sky, seeing things that they just aren't normally paying attention to. They're like, oh my God, I saw one. There is some of that going on.

But the fact that you have people like Rich McHugh, Michael Tracy also was not one to, you know, just randomly imagine things or, you know, launch into some sort of hysteria, gives me enough confidence there is something going on here. In fact, you know, you talk to those local police officers, sheriffs that are saying that they're seeing things as well. Okay, I don't think it's all just people imagining things. The possibility that to me has the most merit is that it's the U.S. government, which is, would explain how they could be like, it's nothing to worry about, but also we're not going to tell you what it is. I mean, their instinct is always secrecy.

They keep things secret even when they shouldn't keep them secret. So if they have some sort of technological development that they don't want people to be in on, like, it's plausible to me that that's what's going on. There's one theory that's floating out there that they're doing some sort of search for nuclear material or a dirty bomb or something like that. That's one of the Internet theories that's out there for why there's so many of them in this sort of like grid-like pattern, etc. So that's one possibility that I think that has some merit. Another possibility is that it's a foreign government. I think that's less likely because if it was a foreign adversary, they would be much more aggressively trying to deal with the situation. And I don't think they would be, like, if this was some sort of, you know, Chinese, Russian, Iranian attack, as one congressman floated, that Jeff Bandrew dude from New Jersey floated,

like, I think they would, that information would be provided to the American public. And I also think that they would be aggressively trying to make sure that the problem was dealt with. So maybe, but I think to me that's less likely. Another theory that's been floated is that basically there's been too much like eat the rich talk out there. This is some sort of a sigh up to distract people from, you haven't seen that one? Maybe that's on left wing Twitter. I don't know. Sorry lefties.

You're now in full blown like MAGA. Like Luigi Mangione. This is an attempt to change the conversation for Luigi Mangione and healthcare CEO being murdered on the streets of New York. And so this is like a distraction tactic. That's one idea that's out there. And then the other one obviously is that it is aliens. And you know, look, I'm a bit of a skeptic. Not that I don't think that there's things that exist out there, but it's just, that would be the most extraordinary, obviously, explanation. And so I'm going to have to see a lot more before that's just, that would be the most extraordinary, obviously, explanation.

And so I'm going to have to see a lot more before that's the one that I jump to. So let's run through, right? So innocent government test. Did I miss any? That's pretty much all of them, right? Project Bluebeam, that's the other one, which is bullshit. Which is what? Basically this idea of like you bring in UFOs and you create- It's a PSYOP. Yeah, it's a PSYOP.

Yeah, that's a version of the- It's kind of the mangy thing, but it's more about to invite government control. All right, so everyone says, oh, well, we're just testing things. Yeah, you're going to test an experimental aircraft over a massive populated center? No, we have—the entire state of Nevada is owned by the federal government, basically. We have the Mojave Desert. You have, you know, so many different testing grounds where there's no population centers. That would never happen, specifically because of this.

Look at all of the history of experimental weapons technology. Do they do it over majorly populated centers? No. Okay, so we can rule that one out. Well, but what about the one they're searching for something? Okay. They're not just testing. The technology is actually being used for some purpose. Or the other theory that I saw

floated is that the test is to see how people are going to react and whether there is going to be some sort of like a mass chaotic panic. Theoretically possible for that to happen, you would have to believe in some like hyper-functional part of the United States government, which is like somehow not able to leak in one of the most extraordinary domestic psyops in modern history. I mean, it just seems unbelievable. Like I guess theoretically possible with an extremely small team, but especially in the modern era, like how would that happen? The second is that- I just think all the explanations seem unbelievable. Right, right. Exactly. That's my point. It's neat to open the mind. So then number

three is this whole dirty bomb theory. I mean, again, you know, if we have to think about what that looks like. By the way, all of the dirty bomb plans and all this, I went, look, it's all published by NYPD and others because this is a theoretical possibility that major populated centers have been having to deal with since 2001. This does not fit with any of the established search patterns or whatever of what they would normally do. Now, I guess theoretically they wouldn't tell us, but I mean, at this point, we've had almost 20 years to contend with what that would look like

for what, you know, even radiation, et cetera. Also, if there really was a true threat like that, they would just evacuate the area or they would issue some sort of guidance to the public. Were they just going to risk tens of millions of people's lives? I mean, we've seen in the past, both here with nuclear fallout and also in Soviet USSR, there's such a desire to keep a lid on any situation and deal crazy that if the U.S. government is concerned about some significantly dangerous situation, rather than sparking a mass panic, they want to try to keep the lid on it. And yeah, I think they're willing to risk people's lives at times.

So it's not, again, to me, all the possibilities are far-fetched and unbelievable. But that's what we have to work with here. Yeah, that's right. A range of possibilities that are all relatively far-fetched. So I'm trying to grasp onto the one that is the least far-fetched. Let me also say, what was it, the foreign government one. So, well, okay, this is easy. That's actually the easiest one to be able to rule out.

Not based on patent technology. It's theoretically possible China and Russia would have more advanced drone technology than us. But drones have to fly from somewhere. No, they can't just fly from the Russian mainland or the Chinese mainland, which means they would have to come off of a ship. Commercial satellite technology is widely available to literally all of us. News organizations and others can buy it straight from any of these companies. I could go out and buy it if I wanted to. And I was like, hey, give me a shot of the Atlantic Ocean or whatever. It'd be easily found. So in all of these categories, none of them stand up just none of them stand up any weight. I guess the only, again, I think there's

only two. I think it's extraterrestrial or it's a United States government secret program. The secret program just doesn't fit to me because of all the things I just laid out about so-called testing, et cetera, or they're quote unquote searching for something, you know, trying to not exert, to, you know, have mass panic. Again, it's possible, but at this point in time, like, what could we really even be talking about, you know, in terms of what, you know, the dirty bomb thing is the one I've seen circulate a lot. By the way, there's no evidence for that. It was just a random person on Twitter who put it out there. I mean, I get that it sounds appealing, but I guess part of what you're talking about is that, yes, all of these sound genuinely unbelievable. And that is why I think the Fed should just tell us. If they

really have no clue, they should be like, look, we don't know. We don't know what it is. We literally have no clue what it is. Give us high-resolution technology. Another thing, this is a tell-to in terms of the Feds, where I think they're afraid, is that they haven't activated any U.S. military assets. U.S. North Command has basically been like, we've been advised not to assist. We've not asked to be able to do anything. You know, another thing that we learned, remember whenever it came out, you know, with the sea, about that Titanic submarine and how America actually knew that all those guys died after like a day. Like literally the day of.

Yeah. Yeah, that's another one. Because they heard some. Because they knew. Because of the impl of. Yeah. Yeah, that's another one. Because they heard some. Because they knew. Because we have- The implosion. Exactly. We have the entire sea basically wired with sonar

and all of this other listening technology. Like our tech for all those places is extremely good. And if they were detecting any of that stuff, we would know.

I think they're terrified because they have no clue. Our tech is so good that we have a mass operation of drones. I just don't think so. Without, what is it that doesn't give out a signature? Maybe that's how good our tech is.

I've talked about this before. So, okay, if that's true, then that means that an extraordinary part of engineering, of systems, of material engineering, and all this has been classified from inception to date. I talked about this with the atomic bomb. The atomic bomb theoretically was possible. But, however, if the government knows about aliens, that would also require a mass government-wide cover-up. So it also would require- I don't think they know about aliens. But you, I mean, based on your previous commentary, it seems like you do think that they know about some of these things that are going on. And that would also require an extraordinary multi-decades long cover-up. So, you know, it doesn't seem any less plausible to me that they're

able to cover up this, whatever this particular technological advancement is and whatever they're out there doing. You know, the fact, I think it is telling to your point that there hasn't been some sort of military marshaled response. They haven't, as local politicians have called for them to do, they haven't issued a state of emergency. They haven't shut down the skies for drone, you know, for use of other commercial or civilian drones. And so to me, that is a tell that either it's us and they know it, or, you know, your theory that it's extraterrestrial. I just think there is, that is such an extraordinary and implausible explanation that it requires a lot more evidence than just seeing things that are unexplained

and the U.S. government acting weird, because the U.S. government always acts weird and secretive, even about things that it shouldn't be. Yeah, I totally agree, and I take your point on the quote-unquote UFO cover-up. Part of what makes it so extraordinary and annoying is that everything is about obfuscation. It's about terrifying. It's about nobody knows anything. They just know that it's not other things, and so it's not that complicated.

Also, I would say that the United States government of the 1940s, which initially covered up Roswell and everything, was a very, very competent government that set up a program which literally could not exist today. So we can go—that will take forever to go through. But my point of just why I think that at the very least, we can all agree that there's a full blown cover up. Let's please put A8 up on the screen. The New Jersey governor, Phil Murphy, is saying, quote, residents deserve more concrete information on mystery drones. He sent a letter to President Biden on Thursday, urging the president to continue to direct federal agencies to find the origin of the unmanned aircraft systems. Quote, while I'm sincerely grateful for your administration's

leadership in addressing this concerning issue, it has become apparent that more resources are needed to fully understand what is behind this activity. He continues to put out tweets and others. I'm looking at just one from last night where he spent the night actually with the FBI and with others who were in New Jersey to, quote, discuss drone FBI investigation into recent drone sightings. Quote, we are ready to assist the federal government in getting to the bottom of this. So clearly he's mounting a pressure campaign on the feds to try and get them to send more resources. I don't know if any of this will be successful. I think they'll just continue to try and to wait it out. But it is just, it's truly extraordinary. It really is about what's happening here. And, you know, it just

gives me even less faith, I guess, in the government than ever before. Yeah, it is. It is certainly extraordinary. And, you know, I have ruled out that it's just like nothing and people are imagining things. It's just not possible. Yeah, at this point, it's just not possible. You got any faith in your man coming in, revealing any of this classified information, Trump? Who? Oh, Trump?

Well, first of all, I wouldn't call him my man. But do I have any faith in Donald Trump? Maybe. I mean, there's a bigger question. He didn't really reveal anything last time, though. The question is, is it even faith in Donald Trump? Maybe. I mean, there's a bigger question. He didn't really reveal anything last time, though. The question is, is it even up to Donald Trump? Is it even something that's in his repertoire or his, like, of options? I don't think so. I mean, I don't think that's the way that the system has been able to live for so long.

But I could be wrong. I certainly hope so. You know, you could try. Maybe you can get 1%. Even 1% would be amazing to be able to get any out of this. At the very least, what he could do is continue the public rhetoric. He's got an interest. You know, he has a house in New Jersey, in Bedminster, where they've apparently had sightings before.

And one of the ways you can easily reel it out, too, is that there's an FAA guidance that you're not allowed to fly anything around over him. I'd be pretty freaked out if I lived in the area. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, people. Especially with some of these theories about, like, oh, there's a secret dirty bomb. Yes. And they're looking for it.

Like, okay. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And that's another reason that the feds should just tell people what's happening because people are going to freak out. You know, you're going to have mass panic. And I don't know.

I'm surprised there's not actually more. Right now, people just seem to find it sort of like intriguing. Yes, that's right. Versus like really scary. Well, if we see any more, you know, we're only like one incident away or something like that from really igniting something really bad. Yeah. I think it could be. I think at the very least, stay tuned.

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Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's go ahead and get to some updates, basically saying, listen, of course, murder is wrong. We all know that. However, you have to understand the public reaction and how they see the health care system as itself being violent, cruel, and evil in response to this Fox Business, I guess, what is Joe Concha? Any contributor there? Concha? Yeah. He's like a media. He's a contributor. Anyway, I guess, what is Joe Concha, a contributor there? Concha? Yeah. He's like a media.

A contributor. Anyway, media critic, whatever. Analyst was brought on to call for their resignation over these comments. Let's take a listen. This absolutely makes my blood boil, Liz, and I'm sure that's true of anyone sane and sober who advocates a civil society. These are, including Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders has had the same sentiment. Two U.S. senators that we're talking about, they've been in office for decades, and they

think that shooting a father of two boys, a husband in the back like a coward on the street, like this 6'6 person Luigi Mangione did last week, they're saying that what, Brian Thompson, the CEO, had it coming somehow? Both should resign from the Senate for this rhetoric. They are begging copycat killers to come along and start taking out other CEOs or anybody in a position of power whom they disagree with or whose industry they disagree with. Every Democrat on Capitol Hill should be asked that they support or condemn this ridiculous, reckless rhetoric. The same kind of rhetoric, Liz, by the way, that Democrats used that nearly got Donald Trump killed

twice, including once on national television. I mean, look, I thought that Obamacare was supposed to bring down the cost of health care and premiums. The opposite has happened. Are we going to hear criticism from Elizabeth Warren about the architect of Obamacare or the president it was named after? Eh, doubtful. Liz Warren and Bernie Sanders should be shamed into oblivion for this. As should every member of the media, by the way, that is turning this lunatic into a sex symbol. It's nauseating as a father, as a human being. So to state the obvious, analysis of the public reaction is not the same thing as advocacy for murder, quite clearly. Number two, hilarious for Republicans to pearl clutch over violent rhetoric

when, of course, Donald Trump was out there calling for the military to be turned on his political enemies. Number three, the idea of Bernie Sanders in particular, but also Elizabeth Warren, haven't been critical of Obamacare is kind of preposterous. And number four, there's a later part in the segment, which it was like a five-minute segment, so we don't want to play the whole clip. It's just too long, where he starts going off on AOC, too. And he's like, why don't these people offer solutions? It's like they literally have been offering very—you may not like their solutions, but Medicare for All is a solution that they have been pushing for,

Bernie Sanders in particular, for probably literally decades at this point. So whole thing is just fake outrage over, you know, what has been a mass reaction against the health care industry in the wake of this killing. So I think there has been a mass reaction. I think what I'm beginning, I guess I'm just starting to get skeptical that this is, OK, having lived through some leftist, you know, justifications for violence and others, there generally seems to be an overestimation of, quote unquote, how much the public is with you. So just because something is viral on TikTok or elsewhere, I mean, BLM was viral on, not TikTok, social media or whatever at the time, but people publicly turned against it. So I'm not saying that the quote-unquote rage and all of that isn't there,

but I also am a little bit skeptical that people are full-blown like, yeah, I'm actually genuinely happy that this person has been killed. Oh, I'm not saying that. Okay, but, you know, there's, I mean, for example, there's this theory like you just laid out, that people are crying out for universal healthcare. But, you know, if you look at the statistics, I mean, the vast majority of people are, quote,

okay with their own healthcare care plan or coverage. I don't agree with that. I think your health care plan coverage, et cetera, is way too expensive, is bad. People mostly have affinity for their doctors. I mean, a lot, a small portion of the U.S. public, some 30 to 40 million, is genuinely, like, destroyed by the U.S. health care system. I think those are the people who probably have been speaking out against this. But I also don't think we should overstate the case of like what all this is.

Like if the people truly cried out for universal healthcare, I think they would get it. And I just genuinely don't think that. You think we live in a democratic system where people get what they want and they support it popularly because that has not been my experience. I mean, if you think back even to the 2020 primary, right?

Bernie Sanders is running on Medicare for all. Yeah. Every poll showed that majority, large majority of Democratic voters, even in states like Mississippi, supported Medicare for all over maintaining the current system. However, they backed Joe Biden. Yes. Because they were convinced that he was the only person who could beat Donald Trump, and they were convinced by the electability argument. There was a recent polling, I think from Gallup, that showed the highest level in recent years of people saying that they believe it should be the government's responsibility to provide for universal health care. That's not the same thing as Medicare for All, though.

But I'm not saying exactly. But, I mean, that is a commitment to this should be a human right. Health care should be a right and not a privilege. And I do think even if you look at the polling in this election, neither candidate ran on health care. I mean, outside of like, oh, we're going to lower a few prescription drug prices or whatever. That was it. Health care has been completely excised from the national political conversation up until this moment. But even with that being the case, with neither political party really pushing the issue, you still had people ranking healthcare reform as one of their top issues. It clearly is a system that causes a great deal of pain. Now, you're right. Do you

want to take what happens on Twitter as always real life? No. But the fact that you had the same reaction across every single platform, I think definitely tells you that there is some there there. And there was actually polling that came out. We didn't include it in this segment, but some pretty extraordinary polling, especially of young people where Luigi Mangione, the killer, has a higher approval rating than health care in the United States, health insurance companies, and Brian Thompson, who is the slain CEO. I know, but this is part of the problem with the cherry-picking stats. Congress has a 13% approval rating.

90% of people approve of their member of Congress, right? So the point is that it's complicated in terms of how it actually manifests. So you think people are actually satisfied with Congress? I think people like their congressman or delude themselves into thinking that their particular congressman is the good one. It's all the other bad ones that are the, it's like doctors. I've talked about this before. Everyone loves their doctor. Nobody wants to talk about why our doctors are wildly overpaid. Sorry, docs. I know you'll crucify me for that one compared to every other developed country in the world. Like this is the, is that if you actually dig into it and you look,

all right, even coming back to the universal healthcare point, like you just talked about, the government has a responsibility. That's not the same thing as a single-payer system. Right now, if you look at faith in our medical system, public health, and others, after you've just gone through COVID, how could you want the government

to take over universal healthcare? That's insane, considering the amount of bullshit that they talked and lied to us for over five years. If anything, America's become way more libertarian whenever it comes to healthcare. That's insane considering the amount of bullshit that they talked and lied to us for over five years. If anything, America has become way more libertarian whenever it comes to healthcare. But do you want big pharmaceutical companies with a for-profit motive and health insurers with a for-profit motive? I mean, if you just look at our system compared to, listen, I'm not saying that every other country with universal healthcare where it's perfect and nobody has any complaints, but the cost is lower, the care is better,

and people live longer. I agree. Like, it's very clear. And is it a universal sentiment in favor? No, of course not. But I think it's pretty undeniable at this point that this moment has struck a chord with people because so many Americans have had some horrible experience with the health

care system and do experience it as effectively cruel and terrible and inhuman. I mean, it's just at its core, like putting profits over actually caring for people when they're ill, making sure they get what they need. That is an immoral system that we have set up. And yes, I think that millions and millions of Americans experience it as such, and that's why they're reacting to it. So to, you know, just like dismiss that, I just don't, I just don't agree. I'm not dismissing. I'm just not, I don't want to overstate it. I think there's, it's trendy and it's cool right now to like talk about Luigi and Mangio. And I get, look, it's

funny. All right. Like as somebody who's been on 4chan since literally a teenager, I understand dark humor, etc. It doesn't bother me. If anything, I'm laughing right there with you. But I'm not going to overstate the case as some sort of mass social movement. I just think it's a lot more multifaceted than a lot of

people who want quote-unquote universal healthcare believe. Trust in government is an all-time low. Trust in institutions. The vaccine rate is now basically it's like falling i think the flu shot had the lowest uptick literally ever in modern american history the number of people who are choosing personal exemption and are outwardly flouting government guidance is higher than ever i don't even think any of that is necessarily a bad thing because people are asking questions for themselves but that doesn't like medicare but that is necessarily a bad thing because people are asking questions for themselves. But people like Medicare. But that's not, but yeah, okay, old people like when Medicare pays their bills, but they don't like whenever they get told what to do.

But that's what Medicare for all would be. It's not, that's what Medicare for all, that's the proposal for Medicare for all, is just to expand Medicare, already a very popular program. And Bernie's plan specifically would just continuously lower the age until you have everyone covered by Medicare. Much lower administrative costs, much better outcomes, you know, in line with what many other countries have done. So it's not like you're going to be going to like your government issued doctor. Although I will also say that the VA health care system is also much better than the private as well. You're certainly, listen, I don't disagree about health outcomes, et cetera. I just don't think we live in a society that can tolerate this right now. I mean, I could talk about Japan all day long, but when- That can tolerate what? That can tolerate literal government administration rationing. And so in Canada and the UK,

these are baked-in social programs from World War II onward. People tolerate Medicare just fine. Yeah, people tolerate, quote unquote. They love Medicare and Social Security. Universal programs are very popular. They like it when the government pays their bills. They don't necessarily like it whenever they're being told what to do or in their rationing care or whenever we had, what was it? There was huge COVID outbreaks in a lot of these Medicare nursing homes. So what do you think that the best solution would be? Oh, so if you ask me about solution, I think we should have universal coverage, not necessarily single payer. I think there's certainly every American should have access to low cost health care.

But a lot of people will not like what it takes to get there. Like a public option? I'm not really sure. I mean, really, it's about democratic because the point is, is that we need to have sure that people have coverage. We also need to break up and destroy a lot of the cost vectors, which is private equity hospitals, which is doctors, the American Medical Association. The fact that our people are getting five times more salary than the average doctor in Europe, it's outrageous. I feel like there's a treatment of the American people as if they're this static entity that have their minds made up and we just have to like analyze what that is. And in reality, people are very like their minds change and they're persuadable. And, you know,

when an event occurs that causes them to think about the health care system differently, they change their minds and they open their minds to new possibilities. I mean, you know, previously in the early Obama era, for example, the idea of something like Medicare for all, I mean, that wasn't even on the table. Now there is large and potentially majority, certainly some polls have shown, majority support for Medicare for all. So I just think, you know, you can't just treat the American people like this is what they think and that's that. You also have to make the case for what

you think would be a better solution and try to persuade people, especially in a moment of an opening right now, like we're having right now, that previously didn't exist. I mean, under the Kamala and Trump and that campaign and what was being discussed there, like this conversation wasn't even on the table. And now it is. And so I think potentially what you're reacting to is, yes, the fact that a lot of leftists who have long said this system is immoral and horrible and we should not have a for-profit system are using this opening where there is a national conversation happening about health care to suggest an alternative. There is absolutely that is going on.

But I think that's a positive. I think that should be. That's an appropriate conversation to have in this moment rather than, hey, maybe the solution is like murdering health care CEOs, which is obviously preposterous, saying, yes, we understand why you're angry at this system. Here is a solution that would be much more effective, has been tried in other countries, would save money and would save lives. I think that's the leftist conversation that's going on here outside of just shitposting. Fair enough. Yeah. And there's a lot. First of all, there is a boomer tendency right and left to take seriously shitposts, which are obviously a joke. So again, as somebody who grew up on 4chan, it doesn't bother me and I'm not reacting to any of that at all. You don't think Bernie should resign for his comments? No, I do not think Bernie should resign.

And by the way, I'm fine with the intellectual analysis of, quote-unquote, justification of violence, because that's all of history is about thinking about why we have certain extreme reactions sometimes in the case of Luigi. Like October 7th. Totally. October. I could think of it forever. I mean, you know, any killing, January 6th, right? How many conversations would you have here on this show? I remember talking about that guy who died of a heart attack, who voted for Barack Obama in Alabama,

and was a union worker who literally died of a heart attack while storming the Capitol on January 6th. How does that happen? It's an interesting sociological story, which obviously has major societal implications. So I don't object to any of that. I I'm just, I'm what I am like looking at is this theory of like, Oh, like healthcare itself is the answer. And politically it just has a bad track record. I mean, if you look at Obamacare destroyed in the midterms, 2010, Trump then gets destroyed in 2018 when he tries to

repeal Obamacare. The general thesis, to me, it seems to me, is when you screw with the healthcare system, people are pissed. I mean, that doesn't mean that the system itself is good, but I keep coming back to that Congress thing, where people say that they're outraged, but when you actually want to change something, or if they actually want to vote for something different, they never do it. I mean, if you look at their actual voting patterns. People are voting for different, like, it's been a whiplash back and forth between the two parties. Like, there clearly has been, we live in an era where people are consistently voting for change

and never really getting the change that they ultimately want. I mean, you know, Obamacare is an interesting example because, yeah, people were dissatisfied with certain aspects of it. In my opinion, especially, you know, if a single payer to people it did make some improvements, which is why when Trump tried to take it away, there was this mass reaction against going backwards in our healthcare system. So in any case, like I said, I'm not claiming that everyone in the country suddenly supports Medicare for all. What I am saying is that when you have an opening in the conversation that wasn't there before, of course it makes sense for people to put forward their ideas for, hey, instead of

having vigilante violence, how about we reform the system in this way so that we have less cruelty, sickness, illness, bankruptcy, and death? This is an idea that could accomplish that and try to push the conversation forward because ultimately, you know, otherwise there is no real change. Again, I don't even really disagree in terms of the sociological analysis. I guess I just wanted to comment on the general politics of it. I'll tell you what doesn't help the general politics of it and gives the leftists a point. Let's put this up there on the screen. Corporate America, quote, gets more reclusive following CEO's killings and fear in the C-suite after UnitedHealthcare CEO is gunned down. And now all of a sudden, you know, public officials and

others are talking about, actually, this is my exact prediction. I was like, the only thing that's going to come out of this is that there's going to be security guys out there, former Navy SEALs and others who are going to be printing money off of the quote unquote fear in the C-suite, people taking down their websites like Bill Burr talked about as well. So this is obviously the ironic reaction is instead of talking about healthcare practices or whatever, is that of course they turn to, oh, well, we need to make sure that our CEOs and our executives are better protected against all of this. The other reaction has been to try to criminalize criticizing health insurance companies, which is what's going on in Florida

with this woman who was arrested as being charged for inciting terrorism or threatening terrorism. I mean, completely insane for, you know, repeating that. I always get it wrong. Like deny, defend, oppose, repeating what Luigi Mangione had on his bullets to some call center employee and say, you all are going to be next. Not even saying like, listen, threats have to be credible and specific, okay? Lots of people are out there. Probably you and I just don't really look.

Getting death threats on Twitter and all kinds of other places all day long. And unless it's incredibly specific and credible, it is not illegal. The idea that what this woman said is illegal

is utterly preposterous. Was she able to post bail? Do we know? Yeah. She was given $100,000. She's in confinement now. That's crazy, man. But there was some rumors online that they had dropped the charges. Her family has updated and said that they have not dropped the charges. They are still

pursuing this completely, utterly insane. I talked to Ken Klippenstein, who has been doing incredible reporting that the mainstream media has not touched on this whole situation. And he has been discussing how there have been multiple people from within the national security apparatus, including incoming, effectively, terror czar Seb Gorka, who wants to use this as a pretext for additional crackdowns on, quote unquote, anti-capitalist extremism. So yeah, I mean, if you don't reform and you have an increasingly unequal and cruel system, that is, that's, if you don't reform and you have an increasingly unequal and cruel system, that is the other pathway is basically like security state crackdown,

which is of course something that we have experienced over years and years of that increasing ratcheting up of the surveillance and civil liberties, like going, going away endlessly for the past, I don't know how many years. So that is the other reaction we've seen here. And then this was hilarious. Kathy Hochul, governor of New York, who is just utterly pathetic and unimpressive in every way you can imagine, put this up on the screen. She's apparently, according to, I like the way that Luke Goldstein puts this, Kathy Hochul is holding a therapy session with 175 corporate representative CEOs to calm the nerves of the New York City business elite in the wake of Brian Thompson's killing. Quote, demonization of corporate executives is not new, said Kathy Wild, CEO and president of the Partnership for New York, who is leading this outreach meeting.

So, you know, this is her response rather than trying to push for sort of any sort of health care reform. It's to hold the hands of these corporate CEOs. And I expect that would be the immediate Democratic Party response. You have plenty of people out there who are not sounding like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, who are not trying to understand why people are so angry at a system that is so unjust, barbaric, and cruel. Well, in this case, the state of New York literally runs on rich people and on conferences, like their entire tax revenue. I think it's like 50% of their tax revenue is paid by 50 individuals. Really?

Oh, yeah. It's insane in New York City. Some Gilded Age stuff right there. It's literally. And that's why these are non-functional places, places like San Francisco and New York. If you lose a single individual, that's why their whole idea of taxation and the way that it works was great as long as you have a moat around business. And that's why you need to reassure. Because what was Brian Thompson headed to from his hotel?

His shareholder confidence, right? So there you go. So without that and the hotels and the money and the ability of the extremely, basically the global elite to converge on New York City for business, they have nothing going for them, period. Yeah. They just have very high social services. So it explains, you know, who exactly she's working for. And these are their friends. These are their donors.

Yeah, exactly. The way it works. One more piece here that I just wanted to flag. I will say, you know, I'm not like, you know, I'm skeptical of a lot of conspiracy theories, but I am a little bit suspicious of the official narrative of how Luigi Mangione was ultimately apprehended. In any case, Wall Street Journal

had this piece saying that the way that they were able to apprehend him was this mix of new technology, advanced surveillance tech, and old school sleuthing.

The official narrative here is that they used all of this incredible surveillance architecture within New York City to be able to capture that one image of Luigi Mangione with his mask down at the hostel. Then they put that out to the public. And by the way, speaking of rich people, this is a Tish. She's one of the, a member of the wealthy multibillionaire Tish family, owners of the Lowe's Hotel. Wait, she's at Tish? Yeah, I learned that in

this article. I was wondering because I noted the last name. They're part owners of the Giants. Anyway, very storied, wealthy, extremely wealthy New York family here in any case. So she is the NYPD commissioner, which is interesting in and of itself. So anyway, their theory is, okay, they, or their story is they got this picture, they put it out to the public, and then some random person at McDonald's is able to spot Luigi Mangione based on that photo, call in a tip. The police are there minutes later and find the murder weapon, the manifesto, the bullets, et cetera, and that's how they're able to bring him to justice. I don't know. It just seems, I know that they were getting hundreds, if not thousands of tips into this hotline. Is it, is it really probable that this one tip they would act on so immediately? I don't know. I find that a little bit hard to believe. And some people were pointing out online that

McDonald's kiosks do have cameras and some sort of like, you know, facial recognition technology at these McDonald's kiosks and wondering whether there was some ability to use this private surveillance tech by the public officials, which would obviously be, you know, extraordinary violation of privacy rights, et cetera. So just putting that out there that, you know, to keep an eye on the official story

about how this individual was apprehended. They suspected it, then they checked the camera, and then they dispatched it. Exactly. Could be. Could very much be. I mean, it's not outside the realm of possibility. I've involuntarily been face scanned at airports where they don't even check your ID in some cases. If you fly through a major airport like Washington Dulles or elsewhere, sometimes TSA is doing these pilot programs where you don't even hand the TSA agent your ID. They just scan your face, and it pops on your boarding pass. And when you're boarding international flights these days, it's a game. Like when you board, the default is that you're boarding by face scan.

It's creepy. Nobody ever consented to it. At least I don't remember checking a specific thing. I mean, maybe even if it's a farce, just scan the boarding pass. It makes me feel better as opposed to like, oh, 23E. You're like, whoa. That is really creepy. I mean, it is. And that's a private company, right? And then you think about the TSA and all that is there. I've pretty much given it all up after, I don't know, enrollment and global entry and all of these other things voluntarily just so I don't get

detained for three hours waiting in line. But that's another way the government gets you on a lot of these programs. You know, 45 million people have TSA pre-checked now, which means that their fingerprints are on file, that their face and others are inside of a government database. We're so cooked. What are you going to do? We're so cooked. The alternative is they're like, screw you. Wait in line.

Oh, you're going to miss your flight. You know, that's how they get you. Yeah. The alternative is, they're like, screw you. Wait in line. Oh, you're going to miss your flight. You know? That's how they get you. Yeah. And it's phones that can be, you know, positioned by the cops and Alexa devices and surveillance camera. That is one thing you realize, too,

in the story about following this when it was a manhunt, just how many cameras are recording you. That's why I didn't think he would ever get away with it. I was like, there's just no way these days. I mean, they can track everything. Yeah. But you know,

I do think if he had immediately boarded a flight to another country before they had, because they said they didn't have a name, they didn't have really anything until that photo

didn't even come out until the next day. Yeah, his biggest mistake was not just getting on the train to JFK and going to, I don't know,

Zimbabwe or something. Yeah, he probably thought that they would have had his face ID'd more quickly than that and been able to apprehend him at the airport. Or maybe he wanted to get caught. I mean, I do think that's a possibility. I mean, he had the manifesto, the gun,

and the IDs on it, which was dumb. And he had ditched the backpack with the Monopoly money. So he'd been ditching things along the way, seemingly kind of intentionally. So why didn't you ditch the murder weapon and the manifesto, whatever. Who knows what's going on in his mind? But anyway, those latest updates we have for you there. Camp Shane, one of America's longest running weight loss camps for kids,

promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment

and reexamining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation.

To most people, I'm the girl behind VoiceOver, the movement that exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing

other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it.

Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm J.R. Martinez. I'm a U.S. Army veteran myself. And I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcast.

From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor, going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As Joe Biden reaches the end of his time in office, there have been, of course, a lot of discussion about pardons once he has already given, like, to his son. And we had a whole new raft of pardons that I'll get into momentarily, but also a question of whether or not he should and whether he will

issue preemptive pardons for people who may be threatened by retribution from Donald Trump. Bernie Sanders weighed in on this question and said he was in favor of pardons for members of the January 6th committee. Let's take a listen to that. We know the White House is considering potential preemptive pardons of those who've clashed with President-elect Trump. In light of what the president-elect said to me, that yes, he does think that members of the January 6th committee should go to jail. Do you think that Mr. Biden should issue preemptive pardons for the entire January 6th committee? Well, I think he might want to consider that very seriously. Look, that is an outrageous statement. This is what authoritarianism is all about. It's what dictatorship is all about. You do not arrest elected officials who disagree with you, who undertake an investigation. So all of us,

I would tell you, Kristen, I think there are a lot of Republicans. You just heard Lindsey Graham make that statement. I think that idea of Trump is not going to go very far. It is so quite outrageous. So kind of interesting. He, on the one hand, says like, yes, I think he should consider that. On the other hand, he says, I don't think a lot of these ideas are going to go very far. Do you have any reaction to this? We can move on to this. I just think it's kind of cringe. But I mean, like, look, maybe it will happen, maybe says, I don't think a lot of these ideas are going to go very far. Do you have any reaction to this? We can move on to this. I just think it's kind of cringe. But I mean, like, look, maybe it will happen. Maybe not. I don't know. I mean, like you said, I find it genuinely unbelievable. It also just gets to the Biden theory of pardons, of which I've been thinking

about, which you also floated. Look, I don't agree with pardoning people on the death penalty, but I understand the, like, moral and philosophical case. But considering that people who have been pardoned so far are his son and then a bunch of crooks who we're about to get to, people who should rot in hell for the rest of their lives while probably what most people would consider nonviolent offenses or whatever are people genuinely deserving of clemency, especially if you're a Democrat, if you're a leftist. You said you're going to pardon all these people and you allow those people, you know, to continue to be in prison. I'm just very interested that elected lawmakers are the ones that are consideration. My son is the, the very first person I pardon is my son. Then I will follow with commutations. That was kind of wild. Exactly. So it's like, oh, so we're worried about the elected officials, the sons and corrupt judges, but not others. Now, look, I'm not a

leniency person in general, but if that's your framework, you got to see a lot of corruption here. So that's what I would say to Bernie Sanders. So let's, so I think it makes sense, given the threats against like people who were just on the January 6th committee, whatever, I think it's reasonable to issue preemptive pardons there. But let's go ahead and talk about what Biden has actually done already, because it is kind of wild. Let's put this up on the screen. So he issued a raft of some 1,500 historic clemency package for 1,500 convicted criminals who the White House said, quote, deserve a second chance. Most of these commutations were for people who had been released during COVID. There was an effort,

this was actually under Donald Trump, to alleviate some of the pressure on federal prisons and help stop the spread, which was really quite significant within the prison system. So people who were nonviolent, who I think were towards the end of their terms, were sent home to some sort of home imprisonment. And these 1,500 people were part of that program. And apparently, in this mix of 1,500 people, one of the individuals who was pardoned is just one of the most despicable criminals you can possibly imagine. This judge who was in cahoots

with the builders of these private juvenile detention facilities that was part of a scheme to sentence kids as young as like eight years old to juvenile detention, some of whom ultimately, several of whom ultimately committed suicide in these facilities because the conditions were so horrible and their lives were so horrible and so tortured. They called this man, I remember covering this case. It was the kids for cash was what they called him. And there was another judge that was in cahoots with him. And he was one of the people that was pardoned as part of this.

The headline here from CNN, they say victims of major public corruption cases in Pennsylvania and Illinois are angry. President Joe Biden granted clemency this week to two convicted officials. So in addition to this crooked Pennsylvania judge, there was also what they describe as a notorious Illinois fraudster who had been convicted. Rita Cronwell is her name. She'd been convicted of a $54 million embezzlement scheme believed to be the largest municipal fraud in U.S. history. But just so you understand, like, how horrific this was, the situation with the judge, his partner in crime, like I said, ordered children as young as eight to juvenile detention. Many of them first-time offenders would be for things like petty theft, jaywalking, truancy,

smoking on school grounds, other minor infractions. The judge often ordered youths he had found delinquent to be immediately shackled, handcuffed, taken away, without giving them a chance to put up a defense or even say goodbye to their families. The mother of one of these children, who died by suicide after spending time in one of these facilities, said she was shocked and hurt after learning of Biden's decision to commute the rest of Conahan's sentence. And to your point, Sagar, you know, think of some of the people whose sentences you could commute. I mean, Joe Biden claims to be against the death penalty. You have a significant number of federal inmates on death row. He could commute their sentences to life in prison. Hasn't done

that. Let's put this up on the screen. You have Leonard Peltier, who was convicted. He's a Native American activist who was convicted in the 70s, has been in prison for 44 years, is elderly. The original conviction would not hold up to scrutiny today. There was basically no evidence that he committed the crime that they accused him of committing. No sign that he's planning to pardon Leonard Peltier, although the pressure continues and members of Congress have been pushing him to go in this direction. Next one up on the screen, Julian Assange, not in prison anymore, but he is still being urged to also pardon Assange and clear him of his charges to send a message on media freedom. Jim McGovern, a Democrat from Massachusetts, and Thomas Massey, a Libertarian Republican from

Kentucky, they both wrote to the president with a bipartisan request to pardon Julian Assange earlier in November. Another one up on the screen, someone we've had on this show, Stephen Donziger, who stood up to Chevron and was prosecuted and persecuted for doing such. There are 34 members of Congress who are calling on Joe Biden to pardon Steven Donziger. He was jailed directly by Chevron lawyers. Many experts call it the nation's first corporate prosecution. And again, he, you know, prioritized pardoning his own son and pardoning this crooked, horrible judge, kids for cash judge, over any of these much more deserving and wrongfully imprisoned individuals. Yeah.

Look, I mean, again, presidential pardon is crazy. And it's funny that whenever they get to use it, nine out of ten times they do what their monarchical predecessors always did, which is pardon their friends and oligarchical allies. Eventually they will throw some crumbs or whatever to the people with a few things like this. But it's, I mean, the cash for kids one just makes no sense. And look. I think what happened is they just didn't look into it. They were just like mass pardons for all these people. No, but because remember under Trump, they had this whole, there's no pardons process and all of this.

So they have a process. There is no way a pardon gets to the president of the United States desk under this administration where they were not aware at least somewhat. I think incompetence is very likely. Maybe incompetence, but what's the alternative? Zients as chief of staff has been an utter disaster. And so it would not surprise me.

And obviously Joe Biden's brain is cooked. Like he's not looking into it. So he's just signing whatever? Yeah. I mean, whether it's actually they affirmatively wanted this guy to be released or it's incompetence, it doesn't lessen how disgusting it is that this person was included in the 1,500 who received pardons. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that's kind of the point is that if you look at some of the people who they do pardon and who they don't, you know, I just can't get over that the very first person is his own son. You know, it's all about him.

Then it's about his, the people who work for him. Then it's about rich donors or, you know, all these other people who've got strings and all these other things. And then eventually, maybe we'll get to the people who have no power whatsoever. But that's the story. That is literally the story of Pardons. I think the whole thing is completely clear. He's a very selfish individual. I mean, he's one of the most selfish men to ever occupy the Oval Office, which sounds crazy. But if you look at the decisions, every single one of them is true. The most important decision he ever had to make was whether he was going to run again, which requires self-knowledge. And he literally, in his own words, decided to doom the country to fascism, according to him, for to salvage his own ego. I literally cannot think of a more selfish act.

It's crazy. Agreed. It's absolutely crazy. All right. We have an update on our gerontocracy. So Nancy Pelosi is apparently in the hospital or was in the hospital, suffered a fall while she was overseas in Luxembourg. We can put up this statement on the screen. This is from Ian Krager, her spokesperson. While traveling with a bipartisan congressional delegation in Luxembourg, Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi sustained an injury during an official engagement,

was admitted to the hospital for evaluation. They say she's currently receiving excellent treatment from doctors and medical professionals, continues to work, regrets she's unable to attend the remainder of the CODEL engagements, blah, blah, blah. So significant injury here that was sustained by her. And my understanding is what she ended up having to have a hip replacement. Is that what happened? I don't know. I haven't seen it yet. Yeah.

I was looking for the same thing. But, you know, that's no joke when you're how old is she? She's 80 something. She is 84 years old. Hip replacement is not a joke. Fall is one of the leading causes or contributors to death of people who are over the age of 70. By the way, that's a good reason to always try and stay in shape because it's very difficult whenever you lose muscle mass, especially to recover after a situation like this. It can often lead to degradation. I hope for the best. I hope she's okay. But it's sad because it just highlights that these people cling to power. No matter what, you're 84 years old. You're worth over $100 million, right? You're ostensibly not even- Oh, well-earned, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. Totally well-earned. Well-deserved.

Listen, they live in a meritocracy, right? I just can pray. It is a hip replacement. She had a hip replacement here in Luxembourg, so significant fall. You're in a foreign country. This is not a—in terms of all these things, you're subjecting yourself to—and you're doing it at this point for what? You lost the signature achievement of the Pelosi leadership you know, leadership. Everyone says she's one of the greatest leaders of all time. It's like, well, you know, not when you put it up against Rayburn and some of the other great speakers of the House, but just objectively, like, look at the

course of the Democratic Party under her. You had Barack Obama, and they were all jazzed and excited for that, and they got blown out in 2010. They briefly returned to power as a bulwark against Trump to resign him to the dustbin of history, as you'll all recall. And their project over the last 12 years, the political project, has been a failure. It has led now to, again, the rise of Donald Trump into no House majority. So people can say that you've been such a great accomplishment and wielder of power, et cetera. Like, I just I don't see any of that at all at this point. If anything, it's just time. You got to go. Just go home. Retire. Be in peace.

Even if we think of her chess move with regard to I do. She was instrumental in getting Biden good. Right. Right move. Obviously should have been done long before then. So there could actually be a Democratic primary process. But OK, you got Joe Biden out. But then she didn't have the stones or the savvy to make sure there would be some sort of a process that it wouldn't be Kamala Harris. And Joe Biden endorses Kamala. And reportedly Pelosi and Obama both wanted to have some sort of an open process that could result in a candidate other than Kamala Harris, but they didn't have the savvy, the stones, the boldness, the whatever was required in order to push for that open process so that there would be a better chance for Democrats to unite behind a stronger candidate than Kamala Harris because they were all well aware of what her weaknesses

were. And so even in this that you consider to be like your core mission here to defeat Donald Trump, and I think she did take that very seriously, she's unable to actually fully execute and complete that job. The other thing to note about Nancy Pelosi right now is AOC has been working and apparently pretty successfully working behind the scenes to become ranking member on the House Oversight Committee, which is quite significant. Whatever you think of AOC, she has done a good job in past questioning of officials and holding them to account. And obviously is young and one of the younger faces of the party, et cetera, et cetera. AOC has also done so much to suck up to the establishment wing of the party and make herself acceptable to them, et cetera, et cetera. AOC has also done so much to suck up to the establishment wing of the party and make herself acceptable to them, et cetera, et cetera. But I guess Nancy Pelosi has

never forgiven the fact that AOC protested outside of her office when she was on her way into Congress. And so she apparently is working behind the scenes to thwart AOC's bid to be ranking member on the House Oversight Committee and put in Jerry Connolly, who's just like a, you know, he's actually from Northern Virginia here. He represents Fairfax County. Very standard issue, establishment-friendly Democrat. And so she's working to push his bid and to thwart AOC. So it just shows you, even in her dotage, she is still one of the major power players in Washington, D.C. And it's not just Democrats who suffer from this problem. Emily and Ryan did a great job last week reporting on Mitch McConnell's increasingly infirm condition.

Emily exclusively was able to get this picture of Mitch in a wheelchair being wheeled through Ronald Reagan National Airport. He also suffered a fall. Was that just last week? That happened as well. And so, you know, once again, you have a very elderly individual who was trying to hold on to power. He apparently, part of why he wants to stay in his position, we can put this up on the screen, is to make sure that aid continues to flow to Ukraine. Scott Horton may have more to say about that later in the show. But, you know, this is a trend

in American society. Ken Klippenstein had a good piece on his sub stack, which you all should subscribe to if you're able, with a chart showing how the average age of members of Congress has been getting older and older and older. We can put that chart up on the screen. I think we have that for you as well. Look at that percentage of Congress over the age of 70. Look at the way that skyrockets. Like that is insane. And Sagar, I always think you made the best point, which is that this really in a fundamental sense reflects a failure of democracy. That's what allows these people to basically rig the system to circumvent any sort of real democratic process and just hold on to power forever.

And literally some of them literally die in office, like Dianne Feinstein. And there was, I believe, what was a Republican last year who also died while he was in office at some 80-some years old. Like, that's insane. Insane that they hold on to power until they are literally taking their last dying breath.

I agree. Also, though, it comes back to our healthcare thing. I've just increasingly resigned where it is true they resigned the system, rigged the system and all that, but people just seem to excuse it. I don't understand. The Chuck Grat... He's like 92 years old.

McConnell got reelected. So did Pelosi. It's nuts. She's up every two years and they're like, yep, we're cool with this. I don't get it. I just don't understand why people continue to prop this thing up. And I mean, on their end, I do. With McConnell, I mean, it's literally a joke. He has a new piece out this morning in Foreign Affairs, The Price of American Retreat, Why Washington Must Reject Isolationism and Embrace Primacy. It's like, yeah, how's that imprimacy going in Iraq, bro, and in Syria? So I'm sure it worked out really well. But this is, it also shows to the things that they hang on and that they cling to and what for are so just ridiculous. They're not

hanging on to the bitter end just to make sure that Kentucky is great again or is revitalized. They're doing it so that the city of Kiev can be revitalized. So look, it's sometimes a talking point, but it is genuinely true. They do actually care more about Ukraine, about NATO, and all these other places than they do about you. And those are the people that continue to get elected. So I just don't know what to do about this. A last thought on that point. So in Kentucky in particular, Mitch McConnell is not liked. Yeah, they hate him. He's very unpopular.

Yes. And so you do ask, okay, well, why does he continue to get reelected? And, I mean, it is a sort of anti-democratic process where Kentucky is a red state now, so they don't want to vote for a Democrat. So when he gets into a general election contest versus also Democrats put up terrible canons like Amy McGrath, but whatever, he's very likely to get elected. But he has that Republican party on lock in the state so that he is not really challenged in a Republican primary. So it is a circumventing of democracy. And then in the case of Nancy Pelosi in San Francisco, you know, first of all, all the money in the world, right? Wealthy woman herself and probably the most prolific fundraiser in the Democratic Party. I'm sure Mitch McConnell is no slouch in the Republican Party in terms of

raising funds as well. But then in addition, she refused to do any sort of Democratic debate vis-a-vis her challengers in the Democratic primary, where, again, it's a situation where it's a very blue area. You're not going to have a Republican succeed in that district. So the whole game is in the Democratic primary. And so, again, it's really, there's a real failure of a Democratic process there. I mean, you saw the same thing with Dianne Feinstein, where she's able to hold on until she literally didn't even know where she was. Also because they blocked having any sort of a democratic debate and the powers that be lined up behind her and short-circuited the progressive challenger who was making the case that we should go in a different direction. interaction. And so a lot of these things do come down to basic failures of democracy and show that erosion of real ability to, you know, effectuate change and have any kind of real choice within

this current locked-in system. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight-loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation.

I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy. But to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one.

Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.