Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 12/18/25: Trump Says He Is First 'Jewish President', Saagar Weeps Over White House Changes, Piers Morgan Vs Candace Owens

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

Krystal and Saagar discuss Trump admits Israel corruption, Saagar cries over Trump's White House changes, Piers Morgan vs Candace Owens.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What are the cycles fathers pass down that sons are left to heal? What if being a man wasn't about holding it all together, but learning how to let go? This is a space where men speak truth and find the power to heal and transform. I'm Mike De La Rocha. Welcome to Sacred Lessons. Listen to Sacred Lessons on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here. Independent Media just played a truly massive, role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breakingpoints.com. Should we talk a little bit about the White House Hanukkah party? Yes. Some very interesting comments made here by Trump himself and also by one of his primary

backers from the last campaign, Mary Madison, also from his prior campaigns as well, one of his top donors. She is very excited about giving him even more money to run for an unconstitutional third term. Let's go ahead and take a listen to what Trump had to say about their relationship and what she had to say. Miriam gave my campaign, indirectly, indirectly, $250 million. She was number one. When somebody can give you $250 million, I think that we should give her the opportunity

to say hello. And Miriam, make it quick, because $250 million is not what it used to be, okay? Now I met Alan Dersovich, and he said the legal thing about four more years. and I said, Alan, I agree with you. So we can do it. Think about it. Alan's here someplace. Where's Alan?

Alan is here? Oh, he had a flight. Alan is here? All right. Four here. Four years. Think about it. Thank you.

Maybe I'll be in the first time or a second. Yeah. She said, think about it. I'll give you another 250, but... Wow. So that's very. So that's cool. Mary, I'm saying, hey, give you a

$250 million if you run for a third term and throwing in there, dropping in the Alan Dershowitz Epstein Associate Alan Dershowitz mentioned as well. We can put D1B up on the screen. Apparently, Dershowitz wrote a book about whether or not Trump can serve as a third term. Trump, you know, is talking to him about this. So, you know, apparently. Alan, how much money is enough, brother? You know, I mean, I just don't get, you're in your, what, isn't even in this late 70s, you're arguing with vendors on Martha's Vineyard, like, what else do you need in your life to be riding this boomer slop for a bunch of people to be like, oh, how Alan Dershowitz said Trump can run for a third term? Also, did anyone notice

that she said she talked to Dershowitz in Israel about this? It's just a little too perfect, okay? Yeah. It's just too much. It's crazy out in the open he is too about like, yeah, she gave me a bunch of So I guess we should let her say hello, you know, just making it very clear and open the way that the cash for access game works. And of course, I mean, she's been incredibly important in terms of his, you know, his very, very positive towards Israel. He says he's, you know, the best president ever for Israel, what his foreign policy there has been. And, you know, I wish you could just call this Dershowitz book, which is titled, literally titled, could President Trump constitutionally serve a third term? I wish you could call this boom or slop, but like the President of the United States and Steve Bannon and some of his other advisors, I mean, they're printing out Trump 2028 merch. This is a live question, a real issue. And apparently Trump is interested enough that he's actually exploring this with Dershowitz. So what the Wall Street Journal says is that he received and discussed a draft copy of a book by lawyer, lawyer, Alan Dershowitz, that studies whether Trump could constitutionally serve a third term in an interview Wednesday. Dershowitz said he told that Trump the Constitution was not clear on the issue, which, I mean, if you read the language, it seems pretty damn clear on the issue. But, and apparently, you know, Miriam's interpretation was that Dershowitz was saying, oh, you could serve a third term. In a meeting in the Oval Office, Dershowitz handed Trump to draft the book, which is set to be published next year. He said the book lays out a host of scenarios in which an individual could serve a third term. He said Trump told him he planned to read the book and asked him about his conclusions on serving the

Constitution bards anyone from being elected the White House more than twice. I said, quote, it's not clear if a resident can become a third term president and it's not clear if it's permissible, said Dershowas, who previously served as a defense lawyer for the president. And he went on to say he found it interesting as an intellectual issue. Do I think he's going to run for a third term? No, I don't think he will run for a third term. Then what are we doing? Like, why are you writing this book and why are you talking about and why is he seeking your advice and why is Mary Madelson publicly bribing him with $250 million to run again? Because it's all about a sink, which we will get to soon. It's all about ego and all of that. But, okay, to the extent, why is any of this even interesting in the first place? People were circulating a bunch of clips from 2016 from Trump's original appeal talking about how everybody on the stage was bought and how he had bought those same politicians. And that's why nobody could buy him. And I mean, look, it's been eight years. For some of our Gen Z audience, they probably don't even remember that. But that was crazy. That actually was crazy.

That was part of the appeal. Now, obviously, you could point to various different things about how he didn't operate that way in the first term or during the second term. But, like, this level of rich guys just, like, openly trying to buy the government, even in the first term, it really was not like this. I can tell you. Like, it was more understated. You could report it, et cetera.

But, like, this time, it's way more out in the open. Like, in a way that, again, if you're newer to politics, like, you really don't get how different this is from the first. time around. I mean, Trump at one point spent his own money during the 2016 campaign, right? It was a very different environment. This time around, like, the open feeling of selling out, like with crypto and, oh my God, this morning, his media company merged with some nuclear fusion company. You're like, what the fuck is happening? Yeah. Or like getting paid. Fisner's getting his billings. Don Jr.'s getting money. Like, everybody is getting paid. It's part of what, I mean,

there are many reasons why, like his rhetoric about some Molly fraud and whatever. One of the reasons why it is so galling to me is I'm like, look at your regime. Like, you guys are stealing everything that's not nailed down. The whole thing is operated as a massive multi-billion dollar grift

for you and your cronies. Like, that is the core ideology at the heart of this administration. And your pardon power is being used. How many grifters and con artists, white-collar schemers, have you let off the hook and buy

the way, robbed their victims of ever seeing a dollar of restitution. So, like, spare me. It's just disgusting. It's disgusting. And you're right. You know, it was pretty brazen in the first term, but it was like, people would go and stay at his hotel. Now it's like, I'm going to cut you millions of dollars directly into your crypto scam. So I'm going to bring you a gold bar in the Oval Office. I mean, the level of brazen corruption is truly, it is the worst we've ever had in this country. There is no doubt about it. And not to say, like, other politicians were perfect, blah, blah, blah. This is another level we have never seen before. It's never been out in the open where you just, like, listen, donors have always been

ambassadors. Donors have always been at the White House Christmas party. Nobody's ever like, this lady gave me $250 million, so she lets her buy the mic. It just doesn't happen. Think about your loan. Yeah, Elon being able to get a special government employee. Yeah, I'm just going to let you do whatever you want to. You gave me money. Now go do whatever you want to the government, Mr. billionaire richest man on the planet, who has endless conflicts of interest. So from the jump, it has just been, you know, a complete, like, theft of the public trust. It's absolute insanity. And so this is, yeah, another display where we have, you know, this person, Miriam Adelson,

Trump famously said he's not sure if she's more loyal to the U.S. or to Israel and thinks that she likes Israel better. And so this is the person who, you know, he's bragging about how much money she gave him in the past and how much money she'll give them again, future, if you decides her own again. That is crazy. Also, am I the only, I'd never heard her speak before. I didn't realize she had such an accent. I'm like, wow. I'm like, okay, got it. I mean, it's just, look, again, it's shocking, right? At the same time, they want to talk about Muslims or any of that. It's like, you have a lady given a quarter bill to the president, and you hear her, and you're like, what was that,

Miriam? Huh? Do you speak English properly? You're like, wow, okay. And, you know, You're openly advocating for a, for foreign countries' interests. Pretty wild. Not the only wild thing, though, that came out of that one. Let's put D-2. Mark Levin, the famous Fox News, host, Anointing Trump, the first Jewish president. Let's take a listen. And I said, this is our first Jewish president.

Now he's the first Jewish president to serve two, not consecutive president. presidencies. We thank you for everything. Wow, I'm sure that will quiet the conspiracy theorist. I mean, I don't know. It's just one of those where you put it all together. It's just too naked. It's too out in the open. And it's grotesque, honestly, which we'll get to soon with the presidential walk of fame, et cetera. But there is something about this, which is so different from his original conception as a politician, that if you weren't there to cover that, it's almost hard to tell you, like, how shocking it kind of,

not shocking, like, surprising, but like how shocking in its public presentation it is and how, I mean, look, I can't speak from MAGA. I don't know, you know, what goes through these people's minds. I'm sure they can rationalize everything. But at a certain point, it's just my belief that, you know, things like this, maybe they won't make him think he's a villain or any of that, but they're going to be like, it makes me upset, or this is counter to his public image.

Now, will they still support him? Probably, okay, but he's not running for the ballot. So in the future, any politician who, like you're talking about the Somali thing, I think the small thing is disgusting in terms of what they were doing. And I do think there's a lot of DEI and a lot of other liberals who don't want to talk about it because of their race or because of their religion. But like he just said, I'm not going to hear it from people who are openly selling partons and Ponzi's to part to Ponzi schemers.

I can't, right? It would be ridiculous. It would be hypocritical. And that's why when you see it online and they're like, oh my God, these people are defraud. I'm like, guys, like, you know, your president is also doing

the same thing. And you don't have shit to say about it, right? We can't hear that from you. And hypocrisy is baked into politics, but at a certain point, it's also about power. You know, you're talking here about a bunch of Somali immigrants

and you're talking about the president of the United States. It's like, it's just not the same, bro. And you can't be talking about one if you don't have the other. That's my belief. People have, for years, Trump has got away with hypocrisy. But it's just my personal thing. Like, maybe it's just me,

but I do think that something is kind of breaking with Trump and the Adelson's and the crypto stuff. I do think it's penetrating in a way that it hasn't before. And I think it's because it's more brazen than ever before. I'm telling you the first term was not like this. It was not. Like, operationally, it was just very different. And so out in the open, the crypto stuff, the pardons and everything, it's just completely counter to so much of what his public image was. in the past. And even during the campaign, I'm talking about Biden and corruption and all that. Like, thinking about Hunter Biden. It seems quaint. I mean, Hunter's paintings, are you kidding me? Right. Which was bad. Like, covered it? It was bad. It was horrible. Yeah.

This, you're like, if that was horrible, like, do we have words or whatever this is? We have no words for this. Yeah, exactly. Genuinely have no words. And something else I have no words for it. It's important to, like, it's really important to understand. These people, Mark Levin, Mary Madelson, in particular, have been very important in terms of Trump's foreign policy vis-a-vis Israel and Gaza in the entire Middle East. And they are delighted. They are delighted with him. They think that he has done a wonderful job. They're getting everything they want from this administration. You can see that. I mean, again, she's willing to pony up another quarter bill in order to get him back in the White House a third time. And so, you know, right now we're supposedly

in this quote unquote ceasefire. You've had so many Palestinians killed the ceasefire. I don't know if Israel is abided by the ceasefire, literally a single day. And at the same time, you have just absolute misery. You could put D3 up on the screen. You've had this horrific storms. You know, it's winter there. It's cold. You've had babies literally who are freezing to death. People in these flooded, you know, it's just, it's just horrible. Like, it's just horrible. And you still have, and of course, Ryan and DropSight have done some of the most important reporting on this, you still have so much aid being blocked, including, you know, supplies that would at least help to ease some of the suffering here as they struggle with this, you know, this cold rain coming in and the misery

that all, imagine living like this. Like, just imagine living like, especially after all that they have been through. So, you know, Miriam and Mark Levin, they think that what Trump has done here is just great, going just according to their plan. Yeah, 100%. That, I mean, that's genuinely what they voted for. And you know what? They're the ones who really got what they wanted. So, okay. I guess we really see who has the power. And it's also the fact, I mean, the level of defense that people jump to for Miriam Adelson because she funds so many of the congressmen on the Republican side here in the country. They talk about how it's anti-Semitic to worry about dual citizens. Remember, they attack Thomas Massey and others. It's like, guys, Trump himself

literally said, I asked her whether she cares more about Israel or America. and I kind of think that we know the answer. It's like literally, he just says the quiet trope out loud. Yeah. That they're not, that they accuse you of anti-Semitism. And he still worships her here at the Oval Office. I mean, at the White House. Isn't she a recipient of the Medal of Freedom, too, from the president?

Like, it's just so naked, so out in the open. Remember, and oh, I forgot to mention that. That's part of the reason why, 2016. He literally attacked Sheldon Aedelson and Marco Rubio. He's like, Sheldon Aedlinson will give Marco Rubio all the dollars that he wants to buy him or something. And now look at this. He like called him a puppet. Yeah, a puppy. He literally called him.

I think he said like a perfect puppet for Sheldon Aedelson or something like that. For Sheldon Adelson. Again, if you weren't around then, it's hard to describe like how different it is this time around. But yeah, there we go. All right, let's get to the White House. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? How is that not a story we all know?

What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players Comes Crimeless Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists And me, Roy Scoval, comedian As we celebrate the amazing creativity

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Clap if you think she's a witch. And it freaks you out. He has x-ray vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow me. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast Family Secrets.

We were in the car, like a Rolling Stone came on, and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what? What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have. I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened. These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming 13th season of Family Secrets.

Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one or just joining the Family Secrets family, We're so happy to have you with us. I'll dive deep into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are. Listen to Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all.

It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want. First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business. The most Texas story ever. There's a lot of mavericks in that story. We're going to have mavericks on the show. We're going to have plenty of robber barons. So many robber barons.

And you know what? They're not all bad. And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses, along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked. Like Thomas Edison and the Elections Chess. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. As if things couldn't get any worse and as if I could.

not be more personally attacked by Donald Trump's renovation of the White House, his legalized rescheduling of marijuana, which is very likely to happen today, potentially not taxing, gambling, winning, is helping out pornography companies. He has further desecrated the people's house with new plaques underneath his so-called walk, or no, Hall of Fame there on the White House. Colonnade, let's take a list, look at some of these. This called the presidential walk of fame was conceived, built, and dedicated by President Donald Day Trump as a tribute to past presidents, good, bad, and somewhere in the middle who served our country and gave up so much in so doing. The presidential walk of fame will long live as a testament and tribute to the greatness

of America dedicated on November 5, 2025. I am personally asking, no matter who it is, that comes into the office next year, we need a ritualistic burning on the road, but in the Newly restored Rose Garden. So first, we will plunder the concrete. We will take it. We will dig it all up. We will replant the Rose Garden. After the Rose Garden is there,

we will ritualistically burn these plaques and any other such desecrated signs that say the Oval Office on the Oval Office or the Presidential Walkcham. All the Home Depot, gilded. The ballroom, we will dismantle brick by brick. We need, like, Marxist-Leninists

to come in here, like Bolshevik Red God. I sign up, I'll be ready. You can, you know, give me a red guard, give me an armband, I'm ready to roll. We'll get the troops together, and we will, you know, by hand, you know, and our socialists, you know, like the hammer and the sickle, we'll come together. No bulldozers. We will do it together. We will rise up together and we will burn this fucker to the ground whenever it comes to the ballroom. Now, just to show you the plaque that we have here, let's put this one up here on the screen.

These are the plaques that now accompany every president. You know, he famously, why are the gold furnishings above the photo? You know what I mean? Like the frames themselves are already offensive. Tacky enough. But why the gold above the said frame? Like, why? So let's take a look at, let's read some of these plaques, shall we?

Which Trump apparently wrote himself. This is Obama's. Barack Hussein Obama was the first black president community. It's very woke of Trump to capitalize black. Did you see that? Yes, very woke, yeah. Thank you, President Trump for sticking with the New York Times post-BLM style guide. A community organizer, one-term senator from Illinois, one of the most divisive political figures in American history. As president, he passed the highly ineffective, unaffordable care act, resulting in his party losing control of both houses of Congress, the election of the largest House Republican majority since 1946.

He presided over a stagnant economy, economy capitalized for no reason whatsoever, approved the terrible. Iran-deuclear deal and signed the one-sided Paris climate accords, both of which were later terminated by President Donald J. Trump. Under Obama, the ISIS caliphate spread across the Middle East. Libya collapsed into chaos. Russia invaded and took Crimea and Ukraine, crippled small businesses with crushing regulation, environment, blah, blah, blah. Obama also spied on the 2016 presidential campaign of President Trump and presided over the, what was that, the creation of the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax, the worst political scandal in American history, history capitalized. He handicapped successor. His handpick successor. His handpick

successor, I said handicapped. Well, maybe. Hillary Rodham Clinton would then lose the presidency to Donald J. Trump. Seems very neutral, very, you know, historically accurate. Let's say even if it wasn't neutral, all right? Could we at least have it be written better? Like, you know, grammatically correct, maybe, you know, just maybe a little bit more dignified or something. A little briefer. A little briefer. It's very actinous. It's very lengthy. Lots of run-on sentences. Let's go to the next one. Getting rid of the character limit on Twitter. Here is. Here is Joe Biden. Sleepy Joe Biden was by far the worst president in American history. Taking office as a result. Look, I hate Biden. I wouldn't even call him the worst president of American history.

was the result of the most corrupt election ever seen in the United States, oversaw a series of unprecedented disasters that brought our nation. His policies caused the highest inflation capitalized ever recorded, leading the U.S. dollar, dollar capitalized, to lose more than 20% of its value in four years. His green news scam surrendered America. Okay, I think everybody gets the idea for what we've got there. He gets even gets into the debate.

Yeah. It gets into the debate, the famous debate, put E4 up there on the screen. If there was any doubt whatsoever, White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt, confirming, quote, the plaques are eloquently written descriptions of each president and the legacy they left behind. As a student of history, many were written directly by the president himself. We know, we know, ma'am. Thank you for confirming that. Ballroom update for everybody out there.

Let's put this one up here on the screen. that was displayed in President Trump's Oval Office. So you can see the campus. So we've got the West Wing. You know, there you go. We've got the iconic White House rail. Whoa, what is that monstrosity that's sitting there? Oh, that's the ball.

Do you see how much bigger the ballroom is than the White House? I'm serious. Didn't you have to, like, get a new architect? Yes. Because the original one was like, I'm not doing this. He's like, I'm not doing this. They actually started beefing for anybody wondering, the cost may now actually be 400.

million. Let's put that next one up there on the screen. This is an increase, I believe, in about 150 million since the last time that it had previously had been talked about. So yeah, that's, we're talking about $400 million, $400 million for the ballroom being privately donated or whatever by these multi-billionaires to desecrate the White House campus. And unfortunately, you know, this is a little nimbie cell for all of you. Right now, unfortunately, the White House campus and a few other things under control of the president do not have to go through any historical preservation or architectural review. They're basically under the total purview of the executive.

The National Historical Preservation actually tried, let's put this up here on the screen, that would have blocked the construction of the ballroom, but ended up overruling them and denying the motion in order to do so. This is shocking, and actually, we need to make sure that this never happens again. after we dismantle the ballroom, by the way. After we dismantle the ballroom, we're going to say nobody can ever touch it again. And then it actually needs to go through

some architectural review. Now, people may think that this is some pet project and all of that, but the reason why I think it's fun to include in the show is what we learned about through those word clouds and through polling.

This shit resonates in a way that I never thought that it would. And, yeah, I think there's a small seat conservatism that a lot of people feel where they're like, oh, this is not about you.

This is not about, like the White House is literally, not about you. And then whenever it comes to the plaques making it, it's not about overtly political, it's just overtly Trump. Like he's like, I am going to make the colonnade. Just like so petty. Right. Because what is, yes, the pettiness, which is a direct expression of Donald Trump, but what those photos that come out of the colonnade, it becomes a place where everyone's photo who's taken there, you know, I have, it's not about me. I'm saying people who have the

photos that are taken there. It's about like that was at the White House. But now, it's about the Trump House, right? From the Rose Garden to the colonnade, to the gold, to the Oval Office. He's like, this is about me. And that's what I think is resonating in terms of its takeover across the country. Call me a shit lib and all that. Don't care. Like, I don't care whether it's Trump or anybody else.

It's a monstrosity, right? Like, that's the point that I think a lot of people are resonating with is they can see this as a direct obsession of the president while they feel like they're, you know, the economy is slipping away and that this is your overall priority. So that's why, you know, I'm pleasantly surprised to see that a lot of people care. A lot of people care a hell of a lot more than I thought. Yeah, it's interesting. It's very interesting what breaks through to the normies and really gets, you know,

like has its cultural moment. But in terms of the plaques, listen, it's one thing when you see this bullshit from him on Twitter, right? It's Twitter. Twitter is sort of inherently undignified, right? We're talking about the White House here. And now you're putting some Twitter-esque or true social-esque bullshit on an official plaque at the White House. And it's so in his light. I mean, it sounds and reads like he literally did post it on true social.

And now this is what you're doing to the people's house. Yeah, it's so incredibly petty. It's so small. It's so undignified for the office. And, you know, I think it just makes Americans feel like, what have we come to? What have we come to that this is what's going on in the White House? House with our president, that this is the man who is leading, you know, a country that many people see as the greatest on earth through their, like, American exceptionalist lens. So, yeah, I do think

these kind of things to, and it's very, like, it's very visual, it's very visceral, all of that. And it speaks, as you were saying, Sauger, too, the fact that, like, this is what he's spending his actual time and brainshare on. And then meanwhile, he's, like, rushing through some bullshit speech about the economy because he really doesn't give a shit and he thinks that everything is fine. Yeah, at least that's the way that comes off. I mean, there's no defense, okay? And this is why it's like, this needs to go, period.

Like, we cannot have this. And we need NIMBYism to fully come into effect and be like nobody gets to touch the White House within an insane architectural review process. I can't handle this. Between that and the data centers, becoming more profitingial. Okay, so the thing is, NIMBY gets a knock,

and I get it, is that it is often weaponized by the landowner class in San Francisco or the rich people who want to protect their property values. Fine. But the fundamental idea behind NIMBY is people who live somewhere get to control the shit that happens in their neighborhood. And that's true. I mean, it should be the most true for public resource. We're not even talking about private land here.

We're talking about public land. Like publicly owned taxpayer-funded land and buildings, which are not just iconic, belong to all of us. That's the whole purpose. One of the things, tragedies, unfortunately, for the White House is that people, people are. People can't really get that close to it anymore, you know, with 9-11 and Boston bombing and all that stuff. Like, I've watched it happen over the years. You used to be able to go up to the fence. Now you can't even get close.

And the more that it becomes securitized and people get farther away from it, you don't feel the connection that you deserve, in my opinion. Everybody should be able to go up to the fence at the very least and take a picture, you know, if they want to or easily be able to get a tour. Because the history is yours. It's not theirs. That's the whole point. And I think that's what it inverts. It's very sad, honestly. I was just looking at photos yesterday from the East Wing.

I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe this is gone. I can't believe it. And it's one of those where they have, I think they don't know what they're playing with. They really believed that they could just do this and nobody would care. And then when those photos started to come out of the demolition and every, I mean, those went very viral. Yeah. And because Trump started to realize because he banned. Yeah, because he banned photography of the East Wing.

He kind of started to get like, oh, this doesn't, this doesn't look great. I mean, the other thing, it connects to the story about him, like, exploring a third term, because what you really think this guy is, like, building this gigantic ballroom and he intends to just, like, step aside peacefully when his term is over. It doesn't really feel like it, does it? That's right. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this?

How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players Comes Crimeless

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Giselle Bryan and Robin Dixon is here dropping every Monday. As two of the founding members of the Real Housewives Potomac were giving you all the laughs, drama, and reality news you can handle. And you know we don't hold back. So come be reasonable or shady with us each and every Monday. I was going through a walk in my neighborhood. Out of the blue, I see this huge sign next to somebody's house.

Okay. The sign says, my neighbor is a Karen. Oh, what? No way! I died laughing. I'm like, I have to know. You are lying.

You, my guess, y'all. They had some time on their hands. Listen to reasonably shady from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So we had a big meeting. This week between Candace Owens and Erica Kirk, Candace, man, her streams have exploded in popularity, talk about things that have sort of like broken containment. She has, you know, I mean, she's created this whole true crime mystery series out of the public assassination of her friend, Charlie Kirk, and, you know, has been saying very, you know, suggestive things about Erica Kirk, very aggressive things about Turning Point USA, et cetera. there was originally supposed to be, they wanted to do a live stream with her and, you know, did it in kind of a shady way where she couldn't make it on that day. And then they were like, oh, she doesn't want to do it. And she said, I'd do it remotely, whatever. So they scrapped that plan. And Erica Kirk suggested after her media tour and her town hall and all of that lets you and I have a private meeting. So I'll show you in a minute. The Candice Owen show after the Erica Kirk meeting where she kind of did back down from some of her. stuff and her audience was very not happy about that. But after all of this, she also went on

with Peers Morgan, where they argued about some of the conspiracy theories that she has been floating and, you know, putting forward on her show. Let me give you a sense of how that went. This is basically, I did watch the whole thing. This is basically kind of emblematic of the entire hour where Pears is basically like, so what do you actually think happen and what evidence do you have for it? And Candace just is, you know, talking very fast and kind of spinning her wheel. the whole time, let's take a listen to Athlon. I want to get to the reality of what you're actually saying. So when you say that somebody at Turning Point, USA, Charlie's company, was complicit in his murder, who? Who was? I believe that there were multiple people at Turning Point who are,

as I have said many times, my exact words are, they are engaged in a cover-up of what happened to Charlie on that day. No, but who was involved in his murder? I didn't say that they murdered Charlie, You said that people at Turning Point were complicit in his murder? No, my exact sentence that I said was that there were people at Turning Point who are engaged in a cover-up. No, you didn't. Sorry, you didn't. You didn't. You said, literally, they did say that on my entire show. You said there were people at Turning Point complicit in his murder.

Okay. That's what you said. When you and I were discussing, that's why I said, let's go back. I was applying the logic of a conspiracy to JFK. I said, okay, JFK, you have people that are complicit. Of course, if you apply that logic, if there is a conspiracy, there's going to be multiple people that are going to be complicit by the time in order for a large stage murder to happen.

Do I think someone at Turning Point pulled the trigger? No. Obviously, I don't make someone at Turning Point. Who did pull the trigger? Did anybody at Turning Point, in your opinion, know that Charlie Curtt was going to be murdered? There is specifically two people at Turning Point USA and I have communicated that information to Erica and Justin Strife

that I would not be surprised if they had four knowledge of Charlie Kirk being assassinated. But do you have any evidence to that? I'm not going to name, I am not going to name those people, okay, because it's not right for me to name those people until I know for a fact that they did.

Did you give the names to Erica? Yes. I absolutely did. You gave the names to Erica of two employees, current employees at Turning Point who you believe were involved in the preparation for the murder of Charlie Kirk. Is that what you're saying? I told them that if I were in your shoes,

these would be two employees that I would look further into. And what evidence do you have that they had any prior knowledge of the murder? Because I don't have concrete evidence is the reason why I'm not naming them. So I've been responsible, I'm not saying. But you're telling the widow

that these two people may have been involved in the murder. So this is basically how it went. You know, there's a lot of talk of Egyptian planes and all the rest, the French Foreign Legion, all of that, right? And I don't know. This is, it actually, like, it feels very frivolous.

to talk about this, but it actually is really important for a number of reasons. Number one, she's created a lot of problems on the right, for the right. Because after Charlie Kirk was murdered, first of all, I mean, they really were trying to consolidate this power grab, and look, they have a storyline. Tyler

Robinson, he has the trans girlfriend, he's radicalized, and then Candace comes in, and through the opening of the investigation is genuinely a mess, as apparently every investigation, Cash Patel is even remotely involved with his mess. Yeah, the round shooter is still on the loose. I mean, can we talk about that?

They don't have a single lead with the MIT shooter as well. I mean, there's like, and you see these images of FBI agents just like shuffling around in the snow, Dan Bongino's. I mean, it's just unbelievable, right? And he's flying around and doing podcasts with his girlfriend, et cetera. So the whole thing was, the investigation was a mess from the start, all sorts of mistakes in the handling. He said he had a guy, then they didn't have a guy. You had that weirdness with the one guy who stood up right away. You've got questions still about, okay, was, you know, did he really used the rifle they're claiming and was this really, you know, the type around that he used and all sorts of things that would sort of naturally arise in this and then compounded by the

fact that you have this totally shambolic joke of an FBI director. So Candice jumps in to fill this void. And so instead of having this like, you know, consistent sort of conservative narrative in the way that conservative media is usually very good at like, here's our line and we're sticking to it, instead she's asking, you know, asking all these questions and the Egyptian planes and like going all in on all of them. Maybe it's Israel and maybe Egypt's involved and maybe France is involved and maybe the administration, maybe Erica Kirkson, maybe TPP USA was directly involved. And so she has just created this absolute mess for the right. And at the same time, I think there's also a lot of jealousy, frankly, that her streams are gigantic, I mean, truly

gigantic. She's getting millions. The audience that she has gained off of speculation about the murder of her friend. So now you've got this fight between her and Tim Poole, and it also comes at a time when there is just, you can't even keep track of who's mad at whom and who's fighting with whom over all sorts of personality-based,

even mostly are not, some of it's policy-based, but most of it is like personality-based beefs and grievances that are all coming to the surface. And she is really like a central actor in all of this. Oh, it's, I mean, again, we can't overstate the reach. She's got millions of subscribers on YouTube. She's doing more in single live streams

than we'll do in a day, okay? Like, she's big. You should have concurrently, like, 250,000 people concurrently watching her stream, and that is massive. It's gigantic. It's orders of magnitude bigger than most people can pull

who are in politics, right? That's something that, like, some big-time streamers might be able to get in a different circumstances. So, yeah, I mean, the right-wing thing, you're definitely correct. I also think your description of true crime was the best one.

And that's why, you know, there's been all this discussion lately about Candace's female audience. Like, well, have you ever looked at the demographics of true crime? Like, come on, guys. Who do you think is watching Nancy Grace or any of these other shows

back in the day? This is a long-time kind of female obsession. And then you have Candice, who's the perfect messenger, you can't deny her talent. She's unbelievable, like charismatic, and her ability to convey when she wants to,

and she can just, you know, she looks directly into the camera, her fight, like presentation, all of that. She's very, very powerful. I do think, She'll also just make some shit up. Oh, she'll just go for it.

She will just make some shit up or tell you that something came to her in a dream and therefore it must be true. This is what I was about to get to with independent media. Like kind of Venezuela yesterday, the phone lines, people were going off the hook on Venezuela. And people who don't know how to do reporting

just roll with it. This is not a knock on anti-war because they actually do reporting. But everybody else just says shit. They'll be like, oh, this isn't this. Guys, like you actually need to learn. Maybe this is just because of the background that we came up in. Facts are things that you can verify. You can't just go off of single sources. Single sources lie to you all the time. I've gotten, you know what? I'm not even going to go into it in terms of Venezuela. This in terms of I hear stuff all the time. I don't report it here on the show because you can't. I only ever go and publish something or say something definitively with this is what I've heard, when I've heard it from multiple people or people directly in, the room with somebody and even then what you need to do is follow up with like when you're going to make explosive claims especially around private individuals you have to make comment you have to

give them a chance to respond you have to make sure that their side is presented this is just from a legal perspective in terms of like defamation law but beyond that it's irresponsible and as we all saw yesterday you can't just go out and claim off of single sources Venezuela's war is coming tonight like these are deeply consequential your warrants matter I'll give you an example on Iran. I had the fact that we were going to bomb Iran. I basically had it about three hours before that had happened. But I wasn't 100% sure, which is why I never came and did it for breaking points. And I told all of you behind the scenes, I was like, hey, I'm here and it's a done deal, but for midnight hammer. But you can't do that. And there's a reason. And what I think

that a lot of these people are, you know, playing in is, first of all, they're acting like defamation a lot doesn't exist, which listen to people, you're all going to find that one out the hard way. Good luck with that one. But second is that it's irresponsible because we all have trust in audiences. You and I both know, if I, you know, I could have thrown caution to the wind and done that video on Iran would have gotten a lot. I'll give you another one I had. Pete Heggseth for Secretary of Defense. I had that an hour before it was reported. Still only single source, can't do it, okay? Just can't. And there's, even though I'm sure we could have made a lot of money, we could have, you know, gotten scoops and all that stuff. It doesn't matter because the process is a

process, you don't throw it out the window. And unfortunately, this is not just Kansas, this is like an entire ecosystem, is, you know, is just reporting or wildly speculating all of these things in public. We, like, Candace had trust with a large audience over Israel. Fairly, I think, actually. She was one of the people who really was coming out hard about the Israeli government, about Gaza. So she gained that dissident trust that you and I have to a limited extent with also a lot of other people. And I understand the responsibility that I have to those people. But I think taking advantage of that, not just for the Charlie Kirk thing, but to wildly and ruthlessly just throw that out the window for whatever you personally, you know, happen to

have a sums of crusade, is really bad. And I see this happen, not just with Candace, with so many other people who get addicted to this shit on the internet. Like, reporting is real. Standards should be real. I'm not saying that there's some law or anything around it outside of defamation law, But, you know, we do have a responsibility. And I think that's something that, you know, watching the TPUSA thing, I mean, again, look, you can ask all the questions you want about 30-od, six bullet. Apparently everybody's a neck expert now whenever it comes to hunting. Like, I'll leave that to the forensic people at trial. Tyler Robbins' people can present that at trial.

I'd love to see what the ballistics experts and all that say. And we'll leave it to a jury of his peers to decide whether that's legitimate. And I'm not saying nobody has a right not to speculate or any of that. But when you ruthlessly and recklessly just speculate as fact and imply, let's say that people are involved in assassins. Like, this is real life. Shit. That's where I just think it's so irresponsible.

Not to say, not to question the FBI. Always question the FBI, always question the FBI, always. But, like, not, and I'm not so great big defender of TPSA. I'm not going to speak at America Fest. I don't really care what happens to them, to be honest with you. It's just like, there are people's lives. here who are at stake, who work in the organization, but more importantly, it's about the trust that we have because, you know, you and I report on a lot of controversial and conspiratorial

stuff, and I know the audience that that can attract, but I will never take them down a road unless I really, not just believe it, but have it confirmed. And so you have a lot of trust with people out there over issues like Epstein. It'd be a lot easier if I could just be like, yep, Epstein 100% worked for Israel. I mean, kind of. Right? And I'll get you the evidence for that. But I didn't say it six months ago. I didn't have the evidence. I didn't have the emails. Right. With Ryan, it would have been easier. Would have made a shitload more money if I just said, yeah, 100. But we don't do that here, right? And even though it would be a lot easier if we could. So, like, I know this is long winded, but like that's kind of my biggest disappointment, not just with Candace, but with this entire ecosystem around just Charlie Kirk. Because it's like he was a real human being. There were other human beings involved. There's a personal tragedy, a political project. also people working over at TPUSA and then there's also the element of just you have a lot of trust

with other people so put Brigitte McCrone and all this other shit aside like to just flip back and forth on whether they were involved or pulling the trigger or any of that we've just come a long way past Cash Patel screwed something up and how many times we talked here about the cash to screw up about cash blocking Joe Kent

looking into foreign you know into a foreign connection to the assassination I have no problem talking about that it's when we start to get into the realm of transponders, Egyptian planes, French Foreign Legion, all that. You're like, I'm sorry, like, this is just, I mean, look, it doesn't check out, period. It really just does not check out.

Like, even the Egyptian claim, unfortunately for me, actually went and checked what we're talking about here. I'm like, this is so spurious and so, like, this is so spurious to even just be 100% sure that it's Egyptian, but then to draw that even further to Israel and all that, we cannot do that. any real level of responsibility. And it's only, you know, we all have trust and the background to be able to go and actually check those things and to make sure that we contextualize the facts

without just throwing stuff out there. The tip line, for example, how, do you know how many unreported tips that I have? A lot of them are true, or they end up true, as I just told all of you, that I have. I don't report them because you can't do it without any sort of background. It's irresponsible to the craft and also to trust. And I've seen not just her do that, but a lot of other people do it. And unfortunately, you know, now it's this titillating true crime murder mystery, which has gone so far beyond what just happened to Charlie Kirk. I mean, it's a, it's on steroids, like, to make it bipartisan here. Yeah, I mean, liberals really got excited about Russiagate and it became like a true crime thing for them, right? And every night they tune into Rachel

Matto, what's the next shoe that's going to drop? Who's the next play character in this, you know, grand scheme and mystery? And, you know, like with, this murder of Charlie Kirk, there were kernels of truth. There was Trump campaign and Russia connection. Like, that was a real thing. And what Candace has to work with is, yes, the FBI did screw this up. Yes, there are parts of this that continue to be weird, right? I don't think it's crazy for people to listen to the doctor saying, like, oh, we had a neck of steel.

And that's why it would be like, what are you talking about? That sounds ridiculous. That's fine, right? But yes, she, and I don't even want to focus just on her. We live in this, like, post-truth environment. And so much from the president of the United States, who just says whatever the hell he feels like saying, bearing no relationship to reality,

to Elon Musk buying Twitter. And, you know, the way he has his own like, he also is like Trump in just complete reality distortion, and that's part of what he does. Now we've got all of this AI slop in the mix where it's increasingly different and difficult to tell fact from fiction. And you've also. had a sort of like conspiracy realignment into the right. Like that was part of actually

RFK Jr. coming into the right helped to bring like the people used to be like hippie vaccine anti-vaxxers into the right as well. And so you've had this shift in coalitions where you have a disproportionate number of people are really open to this stuff. And you've had stop the steel to prime with this. And all kinds of crazy COVID conspiracies that prime for this as well. And so this is kind of the logical endpoint, which is why, you know, when I see Tim Poole and these other people like getting so exercised about. I'm like, you know, like you've, you've done this shit too. You may not have gone quite as wild with the Egyptian planes and Brigitte McCrone has a dick or whatever, but you were happy to play in these waters when it was good for you and when it was

serving you. And now you, she's taken at that next level and you're pissed that she's sort of winning in this like conspiracy off. But even for her, there's a limit. So let me, I'll skip ahead to basically the Pierce Morgan thing is like they get into the Brigitte McCrone penis thing if you're interested in that she does make one point that Sagar kind of referenced about like hey Pierce you're gonna you know now that it's safe for you to say things are bad in Gaza you're able to say it and you know I was saying this from the beginning I would add that Candace herself was extremely pro-Israel until basically October 7th so she also is kind of a newcomer to really seeing you know the truth of Israel and what they've been up to but in

any case, I think she is correct in that, that did help gain her a lot of trust and gained a lot of people, a lot of trust who were, you know, who were there and have been sounding the alarm about what is actually going on in Gaza. But in any case, back to her right after this Erica Kirk meeting and the risks and dangers, even for her, is after this meeting, she goes and does her show and she promises like, oh, I'm going to tell you guys everything that happened and I'm going to, you know, I'm going to expose like what this meeting was all about. And first of she gives very little detail about what actually happened in the meeting. Second of all, she really seems to kind of back off some of her harder-line positions vis-à-vis

TPSA in particular. Let's go and play F-4. This was right towards the top of her show just after the Erica Kirk meeting. You guys were telling me not to drink water, so I didn't drink water. Well, I brought my own water, but I didn't drink that water, too. It was a lot. There's a lot going on, okay? And the conversation started with Justice Strife very sensibly saying, what are we looking to accomplish here?

What is the actual aim of this conversation? And he was pretty clear. And Eric was very clear that they were sort of most upset with what I, obviously a bit of a fever pitch. What I tweeted that it was a godforsaken company and people should not give money to it. And I have to own that. That's aggressive. That is actually aggressive in the retrospect. I was very frustrated.

And I don't know. I felt like we weren't getting any answers. And there were so many lies. And then I was getting attacked for asking all meaningful questions that was within their capacity to answer. And I told you, I definitely, my problem in life is that I can rise to anger very quickly. After this, you can hear, okay, that was too far, et cetera. And then, you know, I watched most of the rest of her show.

and she doesn't really get into much more about what was actually said in this meeting, et cetera. So, Yashara Ali, who's been watching the Kada show and really been tracking the growth of it and what it has meant, et cetera, he did analysis of the comments on this stream, and we can put some of them up on the screen here. And he said they were overwhelmingly negative. Tens of thousands of comments. He said 74% of them were negative. The dominant emotional currents of the comments were betrayal and disillusionment, suspicion, paranoia. conspiracy thinking, anger and hostility, confusion, and cognitive dissonance. He says,

here's some of the comments. I think this private meeting is going to cost Candice a lot. The best part of this episode is the comments as they validate my deflation. If they are still gathering evidence three months later, why did they destroy the crime scene within days of the incident, which is expressing skepticism about some of what Candace said. Game over, Erica got what she wanted, all the hard work and credibility, truth and justice for Charlie, got shot, pun intended, sad day, very sad day, disappointed. Wish Candace didn't take Erica's bait by doing this. And so, listen, I do actually think the Pierce Morgan debate may have helped to bring

some of her audience back because then she gets to be in the position of the supposed brave truth-truth-truth-teller against the, you know, stick-in-the-mud journalist. I mean, Pierce himself is like a tabloid sensationalist, but whatever, put that aside for the moment. I do think that kind of like helped her maybe bring her audience back along. But, you know, if they start to waiver on, oh, Candice has been compromised, Candice got the call, Candice is no longer telling us the truth. Guess what? Someone else is going to pop in and fill that void because there's an audience to be had.

They're all there. Unfortunately, my YouTube algorithm keeps pushing me to this type of shit. There's an entire ecosystem of orbiters who are just grifting off of this. And, you know, I mean, look, I'm not for censorship and all that. It's fine for all of this to exist. I just think at the Candace level, because it's about, if we compare the trust and people like her who have been doing this now for years, and you gain this real connection with your audience, like when you disabuse that or in your, this case, what you're like admitting

that you were mad or something, and that's why you went kind of far. I'm sorry, like you have a responsibility. I've been mad plenty of times. It doesn't mean you violate or try not to violate your own personal ethics. So this is kind of an independent media. problem. Also, you were talking about, you know, the RFK and all that for bringing conspiracy thinking. I actually don't think it's RFK. I think it was all Stop the Steel. I think Stop the Steel unleashed because think about it. At that time, what happened with Stop the Steel was Trump would not hear it from anybody else, except for people who would just tell him whatever

he wanted to hear. Sydney Powell knows. That ultimately is what truly engendered trust between Donald Trump and some of the people around him. You had to be willing to say this election was stolen. It also transitioned to the base where many Republican Fox News commentators and others who knew that this was not true. Either had to endorse it, wink at it, or whatever. That just allowed this space to open

where, of course, anybody is just going to take it as far as humanly possible. You could try and wink at it like Josh Hawley or any others, but at the end of the day, they had to say the election was stolen by Venezuelan dominions. That was like original sin, kind of ground zero that opened up this entire kind of space and ultimately led people to just bring that's what led people to live truly in a so-called like post-truth environment. Now, to your point,

it's not like that isn't a bipartisan phenomenon also in its own right when we think about Rushagate and other things. Like both have their own types of conspiracies. I also think that there's a big class element where at the end of the day, Rushagate, which was definitely equally bullshit, was kind of an elite version of what that looks like. Whereas now, when you're dealing with lower class and lower IQ people who are shifting into the Republican coalition, especially as things move around in terms of like who votes in which direction, it's going to look a lot more like this. It won't be all as dressed up. And, you know, liberal elite conspiracies have, they have academics involved and everything is trust up and it's made to be more respectable. Lower IQ movements are going to look a lot more like this.

And so this is a consequence of some of the shifting class dynamics that are here. So in Richard Henanias's low human capital theory, I think he's totally vindicated. I think this is actually what it looks like. I mean, I think there's a lot of like liberal moms who watch Candace too, though. I mean, I think she really, I don't know that this is just like a right winger's watching phenomenon. You know, and again, Yashir's been the one who's tracking this. Like, it's pretty mainstream because it's fun, because it's entertaining because she's entertaining. I think there's an element of that.

She's entertaining. But, you know, what you see is, like you said, you'll have people who will wink at it, and they're going to get outflank by the people who will actually say it. And then the minute that they don't say the thing the audience wants, then there'll be someone else who will come in and who will say. And then, or the other thing that happens is, like, you ride that conspiracy as far as it goes, and then people get bored, and they move on to whatever the next thing is, and you're kind of left to the side.

Now, with Candice, I think Candice is very talented. Oh, she'll be around. And, you know, she's been able to, you know, she had her whole Brigitte McCrone thing. She's done, you know, this isn't her first moment in the sun. But this is the height of her popularity and her sort of celebrity in terms of American culture. And, you know, I don't know. I don't know if it's, if this is the peak. But I think it's becoming increasingly difficult to sustain as the conspiracies get more ridiculous, more elaborate, more.

more countries and players involved, and now you're having to deal with the reality of whatever actually happened in that meeting with Erica Kirk, whether they had lawyers there and were like, hey, listen, here's the facts, and if you keep saying this shit, then we're going to have a problem. Definitely could see that too. I mean, and maybe she doesn't have an issue with that.

Maybe she would like the policy of getting sued. She doesn't care. She doesn't care. She bothered her that, you know, the Macron's are suing her over her, like, whole Brigitte McCrone transvestigation things. I mean, we'll see, though, because, like, no matter how much money you have, like, at the end of the end of

the day. The court system will catch up with you. Uh, so we'll see. All right. Uh, thank you guys so much for watching. It was fun to end, I think, uh, on that note. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah, uh, etc. to everybody who is out there. We're going to miss you all. And thank you for the greatest gift of all, which is the ability to do this job, uh, which is from all of you. So thank you. Thank you all very much. And we'll see you all very soon. I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it ripped through me. In season two of Rip Current, we asked who tried to kill Judy Berry and why.

They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods. She received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing. I think that this is a deliberate attempt to sabotage our movement. Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dr. Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab here. It's the season of giving.

And this year, my podcast, The Happiness Lab, is partnering with Give Directly, a nonprofit that provides people in extreme poverty with the cash they need as part of the Pods Fight Poverty campaign. Our goal this year is to raise one million. dollars, which will bring over 700 families out of extreme poverty. Your donation will put cash directly in the hands of these families in need, and they'll get to decide how to use it, whether that's school transportation, purchasing livestock, or starting a business. Plus, if you're a first-time donor, your gift will be matched by giving multiplier,

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