Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 12/2/25: Trump Approval Sinks, Epstein Admits Guilt In Emails, FBI Agents Flip On Kash Patel

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

Krystal and Saagar discuss Trump panics as deep red district up for grab, Trump approval plummets, Epstein admitted guilt in emails, FBI agents ridicule Kash Patel.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Good morning, everybody. Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal? Indeed, we do. Shout out to the crew for flipping us over to the holiday set. Look here as well and enjoying it, little snowflakes on the monitors and all that good stuff. Lots of interesting stuff in the show. It is Election Day in Tennessee and that Trump Plus 22 district that the Republicans are nervous about. So can Apton Bain pull off the big upset? We will dig into what we know. Trump's approval is in the toilet looking pretty rough amid some health concerns. Biden vibes there, major Biden vibes. Sauger has a big Epstein scoop. You definitely don't want to miss that one. We are asking the question, taking a look at how much money you actually need in America to make it, the poverty line, that is officially set by the

government wildly out of date. Trump is pardoning a Ponzi scheme fraudster. That's the story we tried and failed to get to yesterday. We'll pick that one up today. And Pete Heggseth throwing an admiral under the bus for that double-tap strike on the alleged drug traffickers. So a lot going on with that one. Yes, that's right. Thank you to everybody's been subscribing, breakingpoints.com. I literally probably spent 10, 12 hours yesterday in collaboration with DropSight, who have access some 18,000 Epstein emails, which are provided to them by a group. These are not public emails. I've actually been going through them with Ryan Grimm and others. So if you can help support our work, breaking points.com. We do have an exclusive story. We can drop to all of you. Just a little

bit of a tease about what it is, is that Jeffrey Epstein actually did admit, at least in some form guilt and underage girls, specifically in an email that I was able to find, which has previously been unreported, as well as his legal team actually advising him in 2006. that he was vulnerable to federal sex charges. And so that has not been previously yet reported, showing his own legal team. And in fact, he himself were admitting guilt, even though they did end up getting that sweetheart deal.

I did get a comment from Alan Dershowitz and from others on his legal team as well. So stick around for that story. If you can't afford it, please, no worries. Just go ahead and subscribe to our YouTube channel. If you're listening to this on a podcast, just please rate us five stars and share with a friend. It really helps other people find the show.

But let's check in with Tennessee, big election here. You know, I mean, maybe just to set the table, Why does special elections matter? You know, why is a national politics show focusing on this? Like, I think, you know, they were the biggest precursor to the 2025 elections. And also, if we think back to 2022, a lot of those special elections crystals were so important in actually showing the end up democratic strength that was there. Because we always get questions. Why are you focusing on this?

I'm like, because, I mean, look, we don't have a full election day. I think it's important to note, like, when the voters turn out, that's the only time shit's real. Yeah. Like, not polls. It's real stuff. pieces that Mike Johnson is narrowly hanging on to a Republican majority. We're getting more retirements coming out of the Republican side. So these sorts of seats, when you have, you know, a three vote margin in the House really matter in terms of who actually even controls the House.

So it matters from that perspective as well. But your point about the midterms and the warning signs there, you know, all the polls and all the vibes were saying and, you know, Biden's approval rating, the Democratic Party approval rating, we're saying, oh, this is going to be a bloodbath for Democrats. And then it wasn't. The one indicator that went in the other direction was all the special elections, something that we covered and mentioned at the time, you know, leading into that. That was the one indicator that actually would have given you a sense. This may go differently than how the polls are indicating. In any case, there are a number of elections today. We'll get to some of the other ones that are just sort of like interesting, you know, side notes that we'll be

paying attention to tonight. A lot of kind of intra-democratic party fighting, which to me is always very interesting. But in any case, the big main event here today is this Tennessee district that encompasses part of Nashville and then some of the surrounding suburbs and excerpts and rural areas. You have a, you know, a candidate for the Democratic Party named Afton Bain. She is a state representative. She was endorsed for her state house seat by DSA. You know, she very much is sort of in the Zoron model really has put affordability front and center. She also was a podcaster and said some things on their podcast that Republicans have been using in their ads against her. Her opponent, Van Epps, is, seems to be sort of, you know, standard, run of the mill.

Republican going after Afton calling her radical and really trying to portray her as out of touch with the district. Interestingly, in his ads, he's not mentioning President Trump. This is a district that Donald Trump won by some 22 points. And you know that the Republicans are at the very least nervous about it because, number one, the amount of money that is being spent. And number two, Donald Trump himself has made multiple posts about this specific house seat. And they've sent all kinds of people in the district. JD Vance has been in the district. Mike Johnson has come to do a rally to try to gin up support for their guy. Let's go ahead and take a listen to. This is actually interesting just to give you a sense of how much money is in the race in the NFL game on

Sunday. It was the Jaguars versus somebody. In the commercial break, there was at least one break that was wall-to-wall, just Van Epps versus Bain campaign ads. So this is the entirety of that ad break just to give you a sense of the messaging that is going straight into the district. and what each candidate thinks is their strongest case. Tennessee's choice, Matt Van Nufts versus Afton Bain. Banefs wants three things, cuts to health care benefits, more tariffs driving up costs, tax breaks for billionaires. Afton Bain wants one thing to lower your costs.

She fought to end the grocery tax. In Congress, she'll stand up to both parties to make life more affordable. Want more of the same? That's Matt Van Bens. Want someone who fight for you for a change? That's Afton Bane. HMP's responsible for the content of this ad. In Afghanistan, the radical shot at us.

So these radical attacks now, piece of cake. A very radical person. On December 2nd, you can stop this radical disaster. The Democrats' radical agenda, opposing tax cuts, pushing higher taxes and higher prices and new taxes that would crush working families. Tennessee can't afford their radical agenda. I'm Matt Van Epps, and I approve this message because I'll fight for America. always have always will meet liberal afton bain i'm a very radical person they not only joined and praised

defund the police liberals afton bain bragged about harassing law enforcement we're bullying the ice vehicles and state troopers worse afton bain supports permanent sex changes for minors i ran on protecting trans children if we don't vote they win i'm a very radical person vote december 2nd to stop radical liberal afton bain conservatives for american excellence is responsible for the content of this ad last year with prices soaring politician afton bane voted against the largest tax cut in state history liberal afton bane voted for higher taxes on top of higher prices i'm a very radical person that's not just radical it's stupid and this year afton bane backed more tax hikes that would cost tennessee families thousands more i'm a very radical person we can't afford radical liberal afton bane

So vote by Tuesday, December 2nd. MAGA Inc. is responsible for the content of this advertising. I'm Afton Bain. We all know the system is rigged in Washington. Here's how it works. Politicians make it easy for their rich donors, tax cuts for billionaires, and burying the Epstein files. While hardworking Tennesseans get a rough ride

by cutting health care for Tennessee families, doubling health insurance premiums, and tariffs that hurt our economy. I'm Afton Bain and I approve this message. Vote December 6th. second to shake up Washington. So there you go. There's a taste of what the voters there in that district. Of course, it was obviously the Tennessee type. I was more NFL savvy I would have known that that would be who the game was with. But anyway. Poor voters, man. I hate election season whenever

you have to see stuff like that. But yeah, I mean, look, you know, what's interesting about that is you could distill it down to 2024 versus 2025. So what I mean by that is all of those ads against her are very 2024 coded. And those. were a lot of the ones that they ran against Kamala Harris, the famous, you know, Kamala's for they, not for you, you know, a lot of the culture stuff that was very, very influential. The radical attack, I've always been a bit skeptical of it. I don't actually think it works all that well. But the point was to try and code with like this part of the resurgent left, which they thought was going to be part of the Kamala campaign. Ashton's ad is much more 2025

coded, and that's actually I think why she has a little bit of success is if you watch that ad, about taxes. You're talking about tariffs and Epstein. So you have like a little bit of a flavor, you know, for them. The Epstein stuff that really obviously gets people jinned up talking about the tax bill and also the tariffs. So coming to inflation. So I'm actually very curious to see what the results of this are. This is, you know, a long time kind of Republican playbook. And the question is about whether it still hits. Also, of course, we're dealing with a special election. Part of the difficulty, part of the reason I'm a little skeptical there of the Republican strategy. That might work in a general election like 2024. But you have

have to drive out, like, people to come and vote who are enthusiastic. Like, think about it. How many people really even know or go and vote in a special election is a very small sample size of the overall voting electorate? And so the Democratic base is energized right now. And I think that's why she's got some momentum behind her campaign. I mean, listen, I think she still is very much the long shot here. I didn't say she was going to win. No, no, no. I just want people to be, you know, clear that we're not saying, like, she's going to win. I think it's going to be, it will be very, just the composition of this district makes it brutally difficult. In a normal year, you wouldn't even, we wouldn't be paying attention to this. It would be a gimmy. Trump plus 22 district. I mean,

that is a huge, huge margin to overcome. The fact that they're even nervous about it is really quite wild, actually, and quite, you know, quite indicative of the political predicament that they find themselves in. You know, in terms of the ad landscape, it reminds very much of what, you know, Mikey Cheryl and Abigail Spanberger were doing in their districts. Spanberger in particular, you know, leaned into her like CIA, National Security Dem bio as well to project more of a moderate image. But outside of that, you know, they were talking about affordability. They're talking about tariffs. I think after, you know, through in the Epstein piece, which I think is really smart, especially in a more Republican district to signal like, I'm going to be the one who is actually going to get that done and they've effectively betrayed you on that issue. I'm not sure that I saw other candidates in. this election cycle do that. So that was interesting to me. And then on the other side, you know, here in Virginia, the, all the, the anti-SPAN Burger ads coming from Winston-Murals Sears, they focused a lot on transgender issues in particular, cultural issues, you know, more broadly and obviously did not work out for her. Now, Virginia was, had some

special things going on with the government shutdown, et cetera. It's a much more democratic-friendly area. So even if Afton was able to achieve the swing, that Abigail Spanberger did in Virginia, which was extraordinary, she would still lose because that is the nature of how Republican this district is. But in any case, let's put a three up on the screen just so you can get a sense of the amount of money that is flowing into this district. I saw people saying this is going to be one of the most expensive house races in Tennessee that we've seen in years and years, millions of dollars.

This is just for the sort of like, you know, the last week, let's say, of the campaign here. You can see there were outside packs coming in to benefit both camps. Let's put a four up on the screen. This was the most recent public poll and from a non-aligned pollster. And it has Matt Van App, the Republican, up by two points, which is in within the margin of error, by the way. So effectively tied in this poll, 4846. And that caught a lot of people's attention that she would be this close. Now, polls can be extremely wrong. They could be wrong in either direction, actually. But, you know, that you would have this result and anything approximating a close race year is already a tremendous victory for the Democrats, I think you have to say.

I wanted to give you a taste a little bit of, well, let's put A5 up on the screen. Again, that's another indication of the nervousness here around this district. Amy Walter says how much of a drag is Trump for House GOPers, even in Tennessee 7, a Trump plus 22 congressional district. None of the GOP ads have mentioned Trump or electing a Republican to keep his agenda going and said they all attack the dumb. Why does this matter? And I think based on the Emerson poll that had Afton just down by two, Trump was actually underwater in approval rating even in this district. So it shows you, you know, even in somewhere so Republican, yes, Matt Van Aps on his ads said like Trump endorsed, but they're not leaning into I will serve the president. I will work with Trump. Trump loves me. Trump did not go to the district. He did tweet a couple times or post truths a couple times to try to get people his base excited to come out and vote. But we've also seen, you know, in the past, that doesn't really translate. Trump's sort of like Obama. If it's not him on the ballot, there just is not the level of excitement more broadly for sort of a generic Republican, which is effectively what this is a hundred percent. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, what it says, as what Amy says is that ours were going to 26 and a purely defensive

posture, rebranding the big, beautiful bill isn't happening. Tariffs are unpopular. The only way for ours to win is convince STEM voters, candidates, is worse. And so this is basically, if you think back to 2010, you ran for Congress in that election, why the Democrats got so decimated as people were not jazzed about Obamacare. And, you know, even the Democrats who were health care first voters, they're like, well, I don't like Obamacare. Republicans hated Obamacare.

There was no enthusiasm. And a lot of the Democrats. And the economy was shit. And the economy was bad, right? And so, I mean, if you remember. the Democratic ads at that point, it's so crazy. Like I went, I, my congressman, his name was Chad Edwards. He was the Republican who lost by the biggest, or the Democrat who lost by the biggest margin. But he, but he had held on in like an R plus 20 district for 18 years. And the thing

was is that even his ads were like, I stood up to Nancy Pelosi. Like that's how bad things. Yeah, exactly. Like, it got that bad. But I remember at Democratic ads at that time, we're all trying to gin up Obamacare into something. just not there. And there's a reason Republicans when they're campaigning are not campaigning on the big beautiful bill and they're not even campaigning on standing up for President Trump because Trump is not all that popular, which we're about to do a whole segment on. You're really in a tough position. You don't have something affirmative that you can run on. And that defensive posture already puts you in a very difficult place. Now, all the caveats remain. This guy, I would say

probably going to win, I think. You know, yeah, right? You have to say that. But it's one of those where if you win by two, if you win by three, that's a big problem. And actually, that's where the gerrymandering becomes a existential threat to the Republicans, in my opinion, because what that means is that they are going to put themselves in a place where they have 52, 48 districts, which they just long presumed were going to be Republican and could very easily go plus five, plus six Democrat, as we've seen over and over again. And in some of those states where they've been able to hang on, the Susan Collins of the world. In Ohio, for example, Vivek, Amy Acton, and Sherrod Brown, like, I'm not saying I would bet on

him, but, like, I'm not counting them out. Yeah. Just, yeah, another whole, listen, it's a whole year to go. You know. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Sherrod, oh, what, he lost by six, something like that. No, I think it was closer than that. Was it closer than that?

I don't remember you're talking about. Yes, let me know what the margin was, because he definitely always outran his Republicans, you know, allies there. He kind of fell victim. I think to the same thing where he... Three and a half points. Okay, wow, right? So that was in a Republican kind of wave election, if you will.

So if you then think back to now, like, you're only talking a couple points. You have decent amount of approval rating. We'll see. I just, I wouldn't want to be any of these guys. And it is, no matter what, it's embarrassing if you win only by one or two or if it goes to a recount or something like that. And it's embarrassing, humiliating if they lose. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut.

I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman's Cut Bourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit Gentleman's Cut Bourbon.com. I'm Robert Smith. This is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and

businesses in history and some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all. It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want. want. First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business. The most Texas story ever. There's a lot of mavericks in that story. We're going to have mavericks on the show. We're going to plenty of robber barons. So many robber barons. And you know what? They're not all bad. And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses, along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked. Like Thomas

Edison and the electric chair. Listen to business history on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. Yo, yo, can we get Thanksgiving first? I'm hungry. Hey, y'all, it's Kadeen. And deval. The hosts of Ellis Ever After podcast. This holiday season, whether you're cooking for the family, out buying gifts for the kids,

or crowded in holiday traffic, tune out the noise and tune in to Ellis Ever After. On Ellis Ever After, we get rid with our cruise. about family. If you feeling like you're feeling, that's probably because you're a good parent. Friendship. Be careful what you put in your body. Move your body and love it

the way you love them cars that house, them clothes, them shoes. Love yourself. Them brunches. Love and marriage. You know what's become attractive to me

and it's because I've self-corrected and I guess I detoxified myself. Accountability. Oh, yeah. That is bad attractive. So attractive to me and everything else in between. I've told my most embarrassing moment on this podcast before,

which was me taking a shit in a zip lock bag. So listen to Ellis Ever After on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It is actually kind of a political earthquake if they lose. I was just looking at the polymarket odds. They have Van Nupt at a 90% chance of winning. So we're clear about, you know, where the betting markets are and whatever. But, yeah, I mean, personally, given the poll numbers,

I'm not sure that, you know, I might be worth placing a little bit on Afton. Yeah, that's good value. That's good, yeah, it's good odds there. That's good value. In any case, the other reason that this is, that of course I'm very interested in this race, is because Afton is like she's a lefty, you know. She's a breaking points fan, by the way. We had her on the show.

You guys should go and watch that interview. We got a lot of interesting stuff found out of her, including getting her to respond to her comments that she hates Nashville and country music, which, you know, they've made a lot about, of course, I'm with you, all right? Sorry, I'll say it. But I ain't running for office down there. It was very relatable to because she was like the bachelorette, the pedal pubs. She's right.

She's right. I will say though, I did the pedal thing. It's kind of fun. It's a little fun. But in any case, she was, you know, sort of like these tourists, they're always in the way. Relatable if you've lived in a city with a lot of tourists. I lived in New York City. Can't imagine.

Like, get the fuck out of my way. I'm trying to get to work. What's the Broadway or whatever? I'd be like, I'm getting the hell away. if I lived in Nashville. I'm sure most of you don't even go there, so I'm just talking about it. But in any case, you know, the narrative about the left that the centrists and the glaciers of the world as reclined, you know, third way or no labels or whoever are trying to push is like, sure, Zoron can win in New York City. But this politics really doesn't apply outside of a deep blue area.

And here you have, you know, a candidate whose politics are pretty indistinguishable from Zorans, who is in striking distance. in a Trump plus 22 district. So it's going to blow up. It's going to be very, very interesting and blow up a lot of narratives. If she's able to pull it off or even if she comes close. So that's the other reason to watch this.

I wanted to play this Fox News clip that I thought was kind of interesting of one of their contributors saying, you know, you guys think this like their socialist thing is really working for you and I'm just not sure that it lands the way that it maybe once landed. This is A6.

Let's go ahead and take a listen to this. Domani is going to be the next mayor of New York. He's obviously a Democratic socialist. And a lot of Republicans have kind of said, oh, watch and see what happens to New York. That's going to be the death of socialism. You don't necessarily think that's the case. No, I don't. And thanks for having me, John. Also, you know, the conventional wisdom regarding Mamdani was that his victory was going to be a boon for Republicans in the midterms because they could just point at socialism and say, you know, there's the boogeyman. I don't think that this is going to work. I think there is a real misreading of the ground in Middle America, the heartland, call it

whatever you want. I spend most of my time there talking to voters. And they're not terrified of socialism. And they're not the conservative, what we used to call blue dog Democrat types that you expect to find there. One quick example, two 30-somethings that I met in Dallas. These guys were Democrats, but not hardcore. Socialism came up. I asked a question that we hear a lot on this channel, where has it ever worked? Without missing a beat, the first guy said Norway, second guy chimes in and says Sweden and Finland. Now, look, we can debate that and we kind of did those models. But the takeaway here is that when I said socialism, their mental image was not breadlines in Cuba or the former Soviet Union. It was free health care and generous vacation

packages in Scandinavia. So I think Republicans have to understand the ground is a little different than they think it is. And this reminded me, Sarah, I saw a poll recently. Canaan's one poll. that was asking people about, like, how do you feel about socialism? And even in the Republicans, it was not like the 90% or 99% like, oh, my God, that's terrible. There was some, a third of the Republican base that was like, maybe. I mean, we're an era of radical politics. Yes. People are disgusted and they're fed up with the mainstream.

And, you know, a label like social, it still definitely carries a stigma in the country. But it's breaking down in a way because it's also a way to signal, I'm not like these Sakeem-Jeffries, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi people that you hate. So it is also a way of signaling that you are in some ways oppositional to the existing Democratic Party. And, you know, at a time when people are feeling like they're screwed and they don't have hope for the future and they don't have hope for their kids, yeah, calling someone a radical is not the epithet that perhaps it once was. I totally agree. I mean, the structural kind of like stew for this has existed for a long time. It happened with Donald Trump.

I mean, we talked about this. The norms, you know, even on immigration, they're like, oh, it's Nazi. And they're like, yeah, a lot of people still voted for him. Okay. You could say it now if you want to. I still don't think it's going to be all that effective. But the point is, is like, Trump won the popular vote in 2024, despite breaking all the norms and saying whatever he wanted. Yes, we live in a radical age. And that's why I also think the socialism thing, let's also just consider very briefly, like the long history of the attacks in the same way. If you've called every Democrat a socialist since 1980, basically what is it, 1984?

I want to say, something like that, Mondale on, well, at a certain point, you know, people of my age who weren't even alive at that time, it was a tired trope by the 2000s. So now it's 2025. So you're at this point where we're like, yeah, I don't know, man. And I think that's one of those where if anything is good of the destruction of establishment norms, mainstream media, and all of that, it's that most people, in my opinion these days, are trying to figure out stuff for themselves on their own. terms. So, for example, when you call someone a radical, we're like, well, what do you mean by

that exactly, right? And so if you say, I don't know, about health care, you're like, well, okay, I mean, that seems kind of reasonable to me. It might disagree on the implementation or whatever, but the idea, I'm not opposed. Same whenever it comes to, I don't know, like, even tariffs or any, Trump ran on tariffs in 2016. Everyone said it's going to nuke the economy. It's the worst idea in the world. Even the idea of tariffs, not the current tariffs. It won. Because people are like, oh, it kind of makes sense to me. So I think it's one of those where people need to understand that with the destruction of norms, it doesn't just apply to the right. It applies to the entire Overton window of political discourse.

So that's kind of why I think it's a good thing. Medicare for All has majority support in the Republican Party now. I mean, as we've discussed this, I think that sometimes taking these polls to the bank is not exactly the correct thing. Okay, but directionally, the idea, the fact that you even have a poll that is correct. at all that has a majority of Republicans. We're like, eh, I guess so. Well, I think the idea is everyone should have health care. Now, you know, if we're going to say, should we have a single pair government control health care? No, I actually don't think that they'll be there. I mean, like, everyone always says about Obamacare. Like, well, technically on paper, it polls well. Like,

no, it doesn't. Well, I will just say your caveat's about polling. I totally take. I think people are bad at, like, anticipating what they will actually support and what the, whatever. But the language of the poll did say that would mean most private health insurance. would go away. And it still garnered majority Republican support. It's a different day. And in some ways, Trump has opened the door to this because, you know, he used language about the working class and even about health care that sort of co-opted the left. So it took some of the sting out of the attacks on left-wing positions when you have the president, I mean, he doesn't follow through on any of this shit, but using some of the language and signaling like he's interested in moving

in a similar direction. I did want to flag there a couple other of races that are going to be interesting tonight. Let's put A7 up on the screen. Guys, go go check out Bolts Magazine. Daniel Moshanian is, you know, unmatched in terms of like literally following every ballot initiative, every down ballot race, down to the like school board and local prosecutor, everything, right? But in any case, he flags a few different things that are happening today. Like I said before, There's a number of kind of intra-democratic party fights on the Atlanta, Georgia City Council. There are some DSA candidates versus some more traditional Democratic candidates. So that's an interesting one.

This one, Sager, I think you'll appreciate. There's an at-large school board race in Atlanta where you have a young person running for the seat who in 2016 went viral when as a 14-year-old high school student, he recited a poem titled White Boy Privilege in a Sam poetry competition. competition into school. He is now running for the local school board. I don't remember that particular. I don't remember that. But you don't remember it? No, I've been online. I've been on line for a long time. If I haven't heard of it, I'm just, I'm a little skeptical. You're skeptical of the virality of this particular thing. There's also some interesting Jersey City and other New Jersey races, but in particular in Jersey City. Do you guys remember Jim McGreevy? He was the governor of New Jersey Democrat, just had to resign a disgrace over like corruption. I think he may have even

served time of person. I'm not 100% sure about that. But he also, he was, he came out as gay because he like these, I think, affair allegations with a man came out. So he came out as gay and he's married to a woman. Anyway, he's trying to make his comeback. He's like a more like centristy establishment dem. And he's running against a candidate who is backed by working families party. So more of a like lefty candidate. And there are also city council members who are kind of the McGreevy people and then the working families people. So that's playing out in the New Jersey mayoral and city council races as well. So that'll be kind of interesting to watch in terms of a bellwether of where the Democratic Party base is at this point. So take a look at that one as well.

Yeah. I think I'm interested to see. We're always going to look at these. The Tennessee one in particular, like we said, I would probably put my, I don't know. At the same time, 90-10 with those odds, I would actually take it. I wouldn't put a big bet on it. But yeah, but this is not. financial advice you shouldn't do it uh betting is bad and it's degenerate uh i'm purely from a mathematical perspective though you know there's good value there's good value that's all i'm saying that's all i'm if you were a betting man they would look at that and say hey you know what's the worst they could happen nine to ten odds that's pretty good yeah but i knew how to bet on polymarket i might do it but it's really not that hard but yeah i'm not going to give it tutorial uh for everybody uh who is here

okay sure google could help us out with that it's it's it's really not that difficult i think it's legal now here. Oh, is it? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that they, they reach some settlement or whatever with the CFTC so that you can do it. Not that you should, and definitely not that they should continue down their sports betting, their sports betting turn, which they and all the other prediction markets are now going down. Shocker. It's so interesting, isn't it? They went from very predictive in politics to chasing the most degenerate big market that exists. But that's a segment for another day. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is gentleman's cut. I think what makes This gentleman's cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful

finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com or your nearest total wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com. Please enjoy responsibly. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money.

And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all. It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want. First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to, fight its way into the airline business. The most Texas story ever. There's a lot of mavericks in that story.

We're going to have mavericks on the show. We're going to have plenty of robber barons. So many robber barons. And you know what? They're not all bad. And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses, along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked. Like Thomas Edison and the Elections Chess.

Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro. host of the hit podcast Family Secrets. We were in the car, like a Rolling Stone came on, and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what? What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is shoes and identity that other people can't have.

I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened. These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming 13th. season of Family Secrets. Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one or just joining the Family Secrets family, we're so happy to have you with us. I'll dive deep into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are. Listen to Family Secrets on the IHeart

Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Should we get to Trump? Yeah, let's get to Trump. He kind of hangs over all these elections, of course, and over everything that's happening. Harry Enton had a good breakdown of the latest. I believe this is a Gallup poll that came out that had his approval rating, almost matching his low after January 6th. So really, you know, pretty grim numbers here coming out for Trump. Let's go ahead and take a listen to what Harry Enton had to say. Look at this in January. Donald Trump's not approval rating. Not too bad, not too great. It was at minus one point. Right.

within the margin of error breaking even. But look at this now. Negative 24 points way, way down. We're talking about a drop of over 20 points in the wrong direction for the President of the United States, minus 24 points. That's a 23 point move in the incorrect direction if you're the president.

And of course, what's so important here, Sarah Seidner, is it matches the trend that we've seen with other polls. That is Donald Trump hitting his low for the second term. I was doing the count last night. I think we're up to 10 polls. in sort of the last 40 days, 10 different pollsters who have said that Trump

is at the lowest point he is in his second term. I run out of room on the side, so I just put up the Republican presidents. But look, the only one who's worse for me, either among Republicans or Democrats at this point, a second term, is Richard Nixon.

And of course, Richard Nixon had to wave Adios Amicos goodbye less than a year after this poll was taken. He was at minus 36 points. Trump at minus 24 points. That beats, or is worse, I should say, beats in the wrong direction. George W. Bush, minus 19 points,

his Republican Party, of course, suffered major losses in the 2006 midterm elections. Dwight Eisenhower, plus 31 points. Donald Trump has never smelt that at all. I had to go into the archives to pick up that photo. And Ronald Reagan at plus 41 points. But again, it also is worse than Harry S. Truman. It's worse than Lyndon James Johnson. It's worse than Barack Obama.

It's worse than Bill Clinton. Anywhere you look, this is the second worst for a president of either party at this point in their second term, dating all the way back since the 1940s. Were there any presidents who saw their net approval ratings rise by more than five points? Well, guess what, Sarah Sider? You go all the way back since Harry S. Truman, zero out of eight times that the president's net approval rating rise by over five points. So there you go in terms of the midterms impact. You can put the next tear sheet up on the screen.

This is the actual Gallup numbers here. You can see, you know, pretty clear trend, disapproval rising and rising, approval rating falling and falling. lowest point yet in this term. So the trend is not good. And if you dig into this numbers, what's actually interesting is, you know, there was no really lower that Democrats could go in terms of their approval rating of Trump. They've basically been at 3% approval rating for him from the beginning, you know, with a little bit of ups and downs. The movement really comes from two places. It comes from independence, who from the last reading dropped from a 33% approval to a 25% approval. But some of the movement also comes from Republicans. At the last reading, they were at 91

approval, and now they're down at 84% approval. Now, those still very, you know, 84% overwhelmingly favorable towards Trump. But he's kind of famous for having this absolute lock on the Republican base. And, you know, he had a recent high of 93% support among Republicans. So that number has dropped almost 10 points. And that's part of what is contributing to this overall decline. Yeah. Well, I say this all the time for all of these Republicans. They're like MAGA doesn't care. I go, is MAGA the Republican Party? No, it's not. Or, or we can say this, is MAGA, everybody who voted for Donald Trump. They just don't get it. Is that MAGA is a distinct, maybe 25, 30 percent of the U.S. population? How many, and let's say of voters, 25, 35, 35 percent of voters, because it's a little bit higher for people who voted. Okay. So where does. the rest of it all come from? Because how did you get to 50 plus one whenever you came to winning the election? That is how you win. That's what the whole ball game is about. And they don't seem to understand how, I mean, in a way, I think we're probably perfectly poised. That's our

audience. That's our bread and butter are people who are more undecided, a little bit more different. They're not deeply partisan. So I understand these people. We swim in these waters. It's just so obvious now for over a year that things have dramatically shifted, I think, against their momentum. I said this before. I think March really was a demarcation point for the Trump administration. That was the height of Doge idiocy.

That's when it became pretty clear. That was also the Mike Waltz scandal. No, yeah. The whole signal thing. I mean, it was kind of just like all, it was like, oh, okay. So like this is the movie. Anybody who thought the movie was going to be different,

we're in the second act, it's on. Like, it's bad now. And we could all kind of see where things were beginning to go. And I think a lot of the American people liberation day in particular, that's when they really saw where all things, where things going to go. And the way that that was handled, they just never recovered from it. And this

is part of the problem with their understanding of the general electorate is that they still believe a lot of these Republicans that if they just continue to suck up and kiss Trump's ass in the most, like, you know, fawning ways that that will keep their power base in Washington. But that has the electoral dynamics that enabled that last time around they don't exist anymore Trump is way less popular today than he was last time around a friend of mine kurt mills shared an article with me about how we're talking about like george w bush December 2005 territory and i mean if you weren't alive at that time it was crazy it was like that's what led to nancy pelosi and this huge democratic way it was a precursor to barraq obama baroque obama's never president

if that 2005, if that 2006 Democratic wave doesn't happen. That's literally what enables him to run for the White House. And all kinds of people were winning at that time, who were Democrats, who had no business even being in there. And then think about the course of history that that eventually ended up happening. These have ripple effects for a long, long time. And especially on the economy, we're right back to where we were, 2018, except this time, Trump is actually more unpopular than he was.

At that time, he actually still had, I think, quite a bit going for him. But this time, it's just like, I don't know. In a ways, it's all Trump's fault. Like, he has surrounded him. He's not campaigning very much. I think he lives in an information bubble purely of Mar-Lago and of his advisors who just tell him what they want to hear. I mean, one of the things that he actually was always good at is he did so many rallies.

I covered them. I was at so many of these. He actually was, quote, in touch with people by just constantly field testing stuff. Right. When is the last rally? can anybody even doesn't even we even know he's not interested he only cares about getting himself elected so he's not out there even with the voters this is a problem always for presidents particularly second term presidents they don't have the incentive to go out there especially an 80 year old president

right exactly you could just keep all think about all the structural things where even the good ones they have big problems staying out of being out of touch not being in touch like the voters trying to keep their pulse on where things are and then think about the information environment that they're swimming, and apparently he was truthing over, you know, two or three hundred things in the middle of the night last night, right? Just literally just true social stuff. Like, that's the, that's the world that you're living in. So you have no idea what's going on. Right. Right. I mean, the information ecosystem, it's not just about who physically he's surrounding himself with, but during the first term, he was on Twitter. And Twitter had a lot of

I mean, especially that was pre-Elon. So there were a lot of liberals. There was a lot of opposition on Twitter that he would have to at least, you know, see. And, and, and, and, you know, deal with. And now he's, you know, largely on true social. And so even that is an information cocoon. Atlantic wrote a pretty good piece with some reporting about exactly the dynamic that you're talking about. And this is Jonathan Lemire. And here, let me read this, this portion. I talk about true social, talk about the fact, like you said, that they compared, he went and compared the first term schedule versus this term. The difference was incredibly dramatic. Talked about how there's no more rallies. He's either, you know, at the White House or causative.

at Mara Lago or when he's traveled, it's been overseas. You know, it's been to, you know, do his attempted diplomacy here or there and try to get his Nobel Prize and the other thing he's fixated on his frickin ballroom. But he says this term, there are very few voices inside the White House to tell Trump no or get him back on track. And that's by design. At the start of his first term, Trump filled his team with a mix of veterans of past Republican administrations and figures from the GOP establishment who moderated some of his more extreme impulses. But Trump chafed at those roadblocks. In 2025, he surrounded himself with enablers, not figures such as John Kelly, Rex Tillerson, and James Mattis. Trump trusts his own instincts and points to his historic

re-election as proof that he provides his own best counsel. His chief of staff, Susie Wows, is made clear she does not see her role as constraining the president. Moreover, there is not a Republican leader on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue to play the role of Mitch McConnell and check Trump's power. And although Trump still calls his old friends back in New York, in this part I found really interesting, he does it less frequently than during his first term, someone familiar what the calls told me, depriving the president of candid feedback from people who've known him for decades and may not agree with him on every issue. Instead, his focus has been on the business titans and billionaires with whom he has frequently dined at the White House and at Mar-a-Lago

who wants something from him and tell him what he wants to hear. So instead of the, you know, I mean, largely conservative, certainly on economic issues, business guys that he used to chat with on the phone in his first term, now he's got Mark Zuckerberg there, kissing his ass and Sam Altman and Elon and whoever, right, all these tech oligarchs who are just there to bring him gold bars and kiss his feet and beg for their tariff car bouts or their goodies or whatever it is that they want from him. That's what he's surrounded with now. And then the other piece is, like, this is an old man. He has never really given a shit about the Republican Party. And I'm not sure he cares that much that his policies are wildly out of step with the American public. You know,

he's increasingly sort of disengaged. And then this is the other part is outside of the individual policies where people are very sour on the economy. They've soured on the immigration cruelty. You know, they've, Saga was talking about some of the like the chaos and the scandals, which are always exhausting to people and people do not enjoy. In addition of that, now you're also, Trump is really finally starting to show his age. You know, he's visibly falling asleep in meetings and they're increasingly health questions,

especially around, he kind of accidentally revealed that he had this MRI recently. And so there have been a lot of questions about, well, what was the MRI for? Can we see the results, et cetera? Caroline Levitt had to field a question about this yesterday. This is B3. Let's take a listen. As part of President Trump's comprehensive executive physical, advanced imaging was performed because men in his age group benefit from a thorough evaluation of cardiovascular and abdominal health.

The purpose of this imaging is preventative to identify. any issues early, confirm overall health, and ensure the president maintains long-term vitality and function. Everything evaluated is functioning within normal limits with no acute or chronic concerns. In summary, this level of detailed assessment is standard for an executive physical at President Trump's age and confirms that he remains in excellent overall health. And let's put before up on the screen as well. They felt like they needed to release this memo from the, you know, the White House's doctor, of course, it says, oh, his cardiovascular imaging is perfectly normal. There's no evidence of arterial narrowing, impairing blood flow or abnormalities.

Overall, his cardiovascular system shows excellent health. His abdominal imaging is also perfectly normal. So in any case, you know, they at least feel enough pressure to have to put out something from the White House physician for Caroline Levitt to have to address it from the podium. And, you know, when voters start getting these questions in their mind, and they see an aging president who, you know, increasingly photos are coming out where it really doesn't look too great and where he's, you know, sleepy at the meetings and all of those sorts of things, it also contributes to a general vibe of malaise and the administration being adrift, which is very similar dynamic to what we saw in the Biden administration as well. Right. Yeah, I mean,

that's the same problem. He seems all the only way to counteract it. One of the, how did Trump counteract the age thing in the 2024 campaign? He was everywhere. all the time. Yeah, just being very vigorous out there at the rallies. I mean, I haven't heard anything in particular. Yeah, he's like falling asleep. I've seen a few times. He did do that in the first term, too.

I remember a few of those hilarious incidents. That said, what the only way to counteract it is what Biden and Trump apparently didn't want to do is appear out in public all the time. I mean, he is, you know, mostly in public, I would say, the Oval Office or others. It's not really Biden territory. But the fact is, is like, this stuff, it gains currency. and in particular when people, there's something about the elderly thing,

I think for me too, is when you feel as if things are slipping away and you don't have much of a voice and then you add the like elderly component of like these 80, 90-year-olds or whatever who are in power who truly don't care about you, it makes you feel very abandoned. And have no investment in your future.

He's not going to be around. He doesn't really give a shit, you know? I mean, I think that that is part of the vibe. And I don't want to make it like, I mean, the deterioration on Biden was something else. Right. It's not the same.

I'm not saying it's the same. And Trump has always been like incoherent in his ramblings. So he's still obviously a much more effective communicator than Biden was during his term. But, you know, I think there's this sense of decline and having this visibly

aging, declining leader you know, heading up the country contributes to that sense of the country is adrift and we're not getting things back on track. So anyway. Not a great picture, and like I said, obviously has major impact on how these elections today are going to go, how the midterms are going to go, and what's going to come next after this term of Trumpism. Yeah, I think it's, look, it sets the Republican Party up for a very difficult fight because you have to bill.

It's the same thing. Trump, remember, Trump will not, he will not allow anything new to come because that would be offensive to him. he can't allow any breakage he'll drag it down if he wants to most republic you know look you're never going to hear me say anything nice about Bush but I do remember that at one point he even told McCain he's like just say whatever you want about me

if you need to get elected yeah in 2000 Pelosi would tell congressional she would do the same thing she's like look you need to attack me to win who gives a shit he does not think about that at all that is not his vibe it's not necessarily something that he is going to be clean I mean look at Marjorie Taylor Green like she was his fiercest critic and she

felt enough pressure in whatever way that she decided she had to resign, even though no one has more sort of credibility with the MAGA base, separate apart from Trump, than she does. So it shows you that even as Republicans see, like, oh, we're going to have to do something different. I'm not super

happy about this. You see some, we're going to talk more about the Pete Hegsa thing. There actually is some breakage with the White House over that, although that's different than being directly against Trump, but it's still an indication of, like, you know, the power and the control slipping a little bet, but we shouldn't fool ourselves, like, he still remains, you know, an incredibly powerful

leader of the Republican Party who can exact pain on his adversaries within that party. And so, you know, that's still the overall dynamic within the coalition. That's right. All right. Let's get to Epstein. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of, you know, developing the profile of this beautiful finished product.

With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com or your nearest total wines or bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentlemen's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentlemen's cut bourbon. Please enjoy responsibly. I'm Robert Smith. This is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money.

And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. and some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all. It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want. First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business.

The most Texas story ever. There's a lot of mavericks in that story. We're going to have mavericks on the show. We're going to have plenty of robber barons. so many robber barons. And you know what? They're not all bad. And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses, along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked. Like Thomas Edison and the electric chair. Listen to business history on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Welcome, fellow seekers of the dark. I'm Danny Drejo. Won't you join me in Nocturno? Tales from the shadows. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Take a trip from ghastly encounters with evil spirits to bone chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. And experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. You should probably keep your lights on. For Nocturnal, Tales from the Shadows. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows

as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Turning out to Jeffrey Epstein, this is some exclusive reporting I can offer, work to our friends over at DropSight. Shout out to Ryan Grimm in particular, some of these emails with me, been spending many hours going through them. This is the first one

that we can put up there on the screen. So my headline here is, quote, Epstein emails is that as things started to circle the drain here with Jeffrey Epstein, there was a very interesting email that I found inside of his own sent inbox that he sent to himself. And the headline here is Epstein email show concerns over roughly 20 underage girls as the feds close in. So I'm going to read directly from this email that Epstein sent to himself in April of 2007. He says, quote, in an email tied him to himself that was titled Privilege and Confidential, spelled incorrectly, as I see it, a following is the summary of the situation. Though I required girls over 18, the results don't reflect it. The feds have spoken to or know of girls between the ages of 16 to

18. If we are to extrapolate, we should assume there are 20 girls in that age reign, adding they will all claim topless massage plus. That's the bad news. Now, the reason why I think that's very important is it corroborates the federal investigation that came out at the time, which they said that they had some confirmed 34 minors that they had spoken to. But for me, what's really important about this email is basically the admission of guilt, saying that was not always the case. And in fact, in his plea agreement, the sweetheart deal, he had to plea to only one minor who was listed at the oldest one. None of the women who were girls, really, between 13 and 17. So actually admitting basically to dozens effectively in his own private email communication. So that's kind

of one where I thought, I said, wow, I mean, this guy basically admitted to the crime in his own email inbox. And an email to himself. Well, it was intended for, I think, for his legal team. But he's like, as I see it, it's a following summary of the situation. Jason Leopold over Bloomberg News has done a lot of the legal work in terms of publishing his legal comms already. so I won't go fully into that. But one thing I just wanted to highlight for everybody is this memo I found, which is fascinating. This is from 2006.

This is the earlier side of the federal investigation into Epstein. So what Epstein has done is he's hired Alan Dershowitz over at Harvard. And Alan Dershowitz has this research assistant named Mitch Weber. Mitch Weber went on to work at the White House. He's a very high-profile reporter here, a lawyer here in Washington.

Now, this was one in the early part of his career back in 2006. Weber wrote a memo. for Epstein, which was titled Possible Federal Violations, Worst Case Scenario. He wrote that, quote, it is likely in some way or another, Epstein's communications

with his masseuses in Palm Beach triggered jurisdiction under 18 U.S.C. 1591. The relevant section of that federal law is, quote, prostituting minors in interstate commerce and specifically from section 1591. The long legal memo is basically,

and by the way, there's so many different emails back and forth, which Jason has already reported, where Epstein's like, look into federal sex tourism laws. And he's like, well, what if I brought a girl who was 16 to a state where the age of consent was below 18? Why would that go? So they're constantly workshopping various different legal theories for why, ultimately, he's not culpable in this entire thing. And what's also very interesting is that inside of those emails was this 2007 letter, which was sent to the attorney, U.S. Attorney Alex Acosta, the U.S. attorney who gave Epstein that sweetheart deal. This was a letter which was actually written by Kenneth Starr. So the former, you know,

the guy who led the impeachment stuff, very powerful. Remember, the Bush White House is in a power here at the time. And their entire argument focuses not really on Epstein himself. They're like, this is a local matter. This is no local crime has been committed. But if it was, it wasn't that big of a deal. The feds have no interest in this case. These girls, it's all very victim blaming. They lied to Epstein about their age. There's a lot of attacking the victim. And thus, this is what they write. This case is at heart, a local matter that is being fully addressed by the state criminal justice system. Not true. Remember that the Palm Beach police are the ones who called the FBI. They said, hey, we can't get this done. We need you to step in here.

They continue, there's every reason to believe that the state process will result in appropriate resolution of this matter, may vindicate any conceivable federal interest. Thus, there is no federal interest that could justify a federal prosecution, and consequently under the petite policy, any federal involvement in this case must be discontinued. Eventually, Alex Acosta signs a non-prosecution agreement, despite some 34 confirmed minors that were there. Again, Epstein even admitting basically to this in his own emails. And I think more importantly, though, is that you had this memo where originally they were like, hey, this could be a real problem. And then they eventually move away from it. So I did reach out to Mitch Weber.

did not respond to any of my requests for comment. Here's what Alan Dershowitz told me. He says, quote, this was a lawyer and client confidential communication from a research assistant. My more experienced judgment is that it would be difficult. The prosecutors apparently agreed with me. So in order to minimize the risk to them, they agreed to a state deal. That's how plea bargains are reached. Both sides seek to minimize risk. Nothing unusual here. That's what Alan Dershowitz told me in an email. But I mean, I do think it is important that his own legal team at that time, or Mitch Weber, the research assistant here, for Alan Dershowitz. was like, hey, you know, it's actually, I mean, to be fair, it was titled Worst Case Scenario and all of that, and they eventually were able to move past it. But the admission

of guilt, the fact that Epstein, I mean, in these back and forth, it's just literally constant. And again, you can go and read some of this from Jason Leopold, where he's asking about federal text, extram laws, and constantly playing with the age of consent, about 16 to 18, what if I did this and that, he's coaching Kenneth Starr. You guys, I mean, it's incomprehensible the way that he writes, but when you are to start to bring it together. He starts writing these long narratives and memos for Kenneth Starr to explain why he's now involved in the case. And it's not about Jeffrey. And he's writing letters. I found multiple letters from Epstein, which he's writing for other people about my friend Jeffrey. He's editing

them about how great of a guy he is. And he wants other people to send them to him. It's all character witness. But I'll tell you, the creepiest part is right around the time that it comes public is all these emails. And again, Jason's reported this stuff. is all these emails in the inbox from all of these rich and powerful people, can't believe this happened to you. What a travesty of justice. I'm like billionaire, billionaire, former UK ambassador. They're like, what, this is so horrible, it would never happen to you. I can't believe this. You know, Galane, oh my God, my love, I'm so sorry. I mean, yeah, by the way, Galane, in terms of what she told, Todd Blanche, I mean, just from what I've read,

some 680 emails eventually that they exchange between the two of them, the number of things that she obfuscated in her testimony. It's unbelievable. Again, Jason has reported some of this stuff, which just goes into their relationship. But I've now had a chance to read a lot of it for myself. And it's shocking.

And finally, the one thing, remember I sent to the group chat yesterday, Lolita, in the months before he died, I'm going through... So Epstein did that classic thing where he linked his old email to Amazon. And so all of his Amazon orders are in there. Really creep success.

shit is there. But also, three months before his death, the annotated and revised Lolita. So he needed the annotated Lolita copy. He also bought it on Audible so he could listen to it. Oh, right. So there's two separate purchase orders. How is that? Like, it's just two on the nose. It's creepy. Like, too on the, you know, best known novel about pedophilia. And here, the best known. So I haven't read the book. My wife read the book. She was like, you do know that the book is like, he's the villain right you know like yeah it's like the whole book is about how the pedophile is the villain yes and so it's like so were people reading this book and they just didn't get the book like it's written from his perspective right in prison right no not well maybe he's in for i don't remember

but it's written from his perspective of how he's trying to lure in this young girl named lolita it was like a child he was like her stepfather or something yeah something he had some sort of a relationship with her that brought her him into contact with her i don't remember the details has been like over a decade since i read it but that's the general vile. It's just, I mean, it's deeply disturbing. But in any case, way too on the nose that that's what he's ordering months before he goes to prison and ends up killing himself in prison. Ends up dying. Let's put it that way. You know, the, I want you to just reiterate for people the timeline here, because I think this is really important. So I think we already knew,

but again, this is important to emphasize because I don't think a lot of people realize this, that the feds knew about he thinks 20 underage girls. Well, they, admit to 34. We eventually find an email. An email is released in 2015, which says from the feds, we knew about 34 victims. That was never reported before that time. So that gets to how ridiculous that whole sweetheart deal was. But the thing is, is he's admitting to himself in his private communications. Yeah. That was not always the case. I do think it's extraordinary. I mean, basically found the email. He admitted guilty. He admitted his guilt. So, and he's trying to grab it with, okay, well, how much do they have on me? Let's assume that they've got probably

20 girls. Yeah, he goes, well, if we can extrapolate it. Underage. And of course, I didn't. I was, that's not what I was targeting, but, you know, some were really underage and accidental, and I'm sure that they have that. And then they go. And this is also where power and privilege and position makes a difference. You know, this incredibly high-powered legal team. Oh, millions of dollars. Who is incredibly connected. I mean, the most connected people you can imagine. He had a crisis PR firm who was advising him. I've read his memos. Again, Jason has published that. You can read the memos, crisis PR firm. Different words to use. I mean, he threw, I would estimate something like $10 million at this case.

And this is the Bush administration at the time. And they're able to go straight to whoever the decision maker is, Ellis, you really want to deal with this? Like, and also, I'm sure there was lots of like, look at how messy. They'll look at all the people who support him and are friends with him. And maybe you should just leave this to the state level. And that argument from them won the day. And that's what enables Alex Acosta to be in the position to craft this sweetheart deal. So I think it's really revealing from that perspective as well, just of how they were approaching all of this, where they thought their risks were. And the way they were able to work the system so that he gets barely a slap on the wrist, and you still, because he gets barely a slap on

the wrist, you still have Alan Dershowitz to this day going out and say, oh, well, he was only convicted of these very minor offenses. I don't know what people are making such a big deal out of. See, that's the thing about Dersh is, dude, you're on these, I'm assuming, I cannot prove this. But like that, email that he sent himself about privileged and confidential. I'm assuming he's forwarded that to his legal team. That's why I too. Or he's having conversations with him, you know, oral conversations with him to that effect. So, I mean, Alan basically coming on, be like he wasn't a pedophile. He was only convicted of a 17-year-old girl or whatever. It's like, well, they had 34 confirmed minors from the feds. And, and here's, here he is. He said it to himself. I did it. You know, not always the

case. We should extrapolate, you know, 16 to 20. It ended up being more than that from what the feds have. I mean, again, the nexus of power and all this stuff and the emails, most of this has been reported, but like Doug Ban, this guy's Clinton's body man. At one point, he's like, hey, guys, I can't get a commercial flight. I need to get so-and-so. I want to go watch a basketball game. Is Air Force G-Max available? That's what he wrote to Gleine Maxwell. And Galane forwards it to Epstein. She's like, what do you want me to do here? And he was like, yeah, just go ahead and pay for him. He's willing to cover the private jet costs. Now, Doug Ban says he never took the flight, to be fair. But, you know, this is Clinton's body man that they're constantly in connection.

buy some watch off of each other. So like some odd mar-a-a-a-pige super expensive watch. And you can see like his degeneracy, not just sexual stuff, all within. He's constantly inquiring about Sikorsky helicopters and yachts. And that's also kind of noteworthy to me, Little St. James. Oh my God. The number of emails I've read of him, him micromanaging the Little St. James property and like this each specific construction, it was like his little, you know, paradise that really

that he crafted intimately from the guard. to the walls and others, and you can see how he's constantly using Little St. James as this nexus to, like, try and get people to come visit him. And the Virgin Island government. Right, covered for it. He protected him, covered for him. I'll hopefully have a story about the Virgin Island government, so I can't, I'm still digging down in it, but he was involved in the gubernatorial races down there. I mean, look, this time period from which we have access to is like 2005 to roughly like 2008. So that's why it's important is we have a lot of the legal communications. But Frankly, one of the reasons why he starts this new email, in my opinion, is that this email was after the Palm Beach PD had started looking into him.

So the real stuff, I think, is in the pre-0-5, but I think he deleted his inbox or something because we haven't been able to get access. If you're listening, you have access. Yeah, Ryan said that there was evidence that some things had been deleted and, you know. You can see. There's big chunks of months that are missing. He was covering his tracks. Glane did the same thing. In a lot of her email, she said, this is my new email.

If you're emailing my old one, please don't do that anymore. They were starting to change up kind of their obsecker. You realize they have. If you will, right around 2005. Well, that's when the Palm Beach PD starts to investigate. Well, people have been re-sharing this quote from Larry Summers, who of course was very close to Jeffrey Epstein confidant and asking him for girl advice and, you know, called him his wingman and whatever. Just to give you a sense of the mindset of these people. So this is something that he said to Janus Verifakis, the former Greek finance minister who wrote about this in his memoir, adults in the room.

Verifakis was talking to Summers, and Summers said that he needed to choose between being an insider or an outsider. And he said, quote, this is Summers. The outsiders prioritize their freedom to speak their version of the truth. The price of their freedom is that they are ignored by the insiders who make the important decisions. The insiders, for their part, follow a sacrosanct war. never turn against other insiders and never talk to outsiders about what insiders say or do. Their reward, question mark, access to inside information and a chance, though no guarantee, of influencing powerful people and outcomes.

So someone who was deeply enmeshed in the circle, Larry Summers, who is an ultimate, consummate insider, he's explaining to Janus Verifakis that if you want to be an insider and you want to have a chance to impact powerful people and make policy, the rule is you can't and snitch on us. You got to keep your mouth shut about anything to do with us. You never turn against other insiders. And that seems to be the code

more than anything that kept this whole depraved sociopathic, pedophile ring of elites going for years and years and years. Yeah, I mean, by the way, on the Larry Summers thing, you know who told Epstein he should read Lolita?

Larry Summers' wife. I'm saying. Who is recommending this book. She can't have been the first to recommend you to do. That's one of those weird. That's why the eyes wide shut piece that we covered

the last time we were talking about this, like, it is true. Like, these people are weird. I, like, again, I know a decent amount of people, even some who are powerful. It's just, like, whatever this is that exists in this inbox,

I have never been exposed to it. I honestly, if you had told me before I ever got into the Epstein story, I would be like, you're crazy. It's just not true. But, like, no, it's true. It's real. I mean, like, there actually is a couple

book for me was that eye-opening moment of like, holy shit. Because this is this man's 50th birthday present. It's been compiled from all these different friends and, you know, associates and acquaintances and former presidents and, you know, all the Larry Summers is in there, Trump's in there, Bill Clinton's, and like,

they're all in there. And almost all of them are weird and creepy and sexual and these weird, like, child drawings and all this. I'm like, what the fuck is this? What is this? This is not anything that any normal person would have seen. And yet somehow all of these people knew that this was like the weird creepy style that would be expected in this birthday book. That to me was incredibly eye-opening about what is going on here.

Yeah, there's this, the only Trump, there's not a lot on Trump in here. The one crazy mention is there's this list that Galane sends him. And it's like, please review this list, add or remove people. like Larry Summers, who else, like Jean-Luc, you know, all of his friend, Ace Greenberg, the former CEO, Senator George Mitchell, Michael Ovitz, the Hollywood superstar, Donald Trump, Les Wexner, Jess Staley, the former, the JP Morgan guy at the time, later on the CEO of Barclays, like just Duke of York, Duke of York, okay, these are General Wesley Clark, like there's a lot of fucking very famous people who are on this list. And Epstein replied to this list, and he said,

Remove Trump lead. Add Earl Mac, David Gergen, Mort Zuckerman, you know, and all these. But my thing is, I'm like, I still don't know what this list is. And what's also crazy throughout the emails, like the amount of Hollywood invites this guy was getting was crazy. Like it was invited to like the, what was that George Clinton movie? No, Michael Clayton. They're like, hey, do you want to come to the premiere of Michael Club private screening? Like, hey, do you want to come to the Sopranos, the final episode?

He was like, do you want to come to a special screening? of this just the level of yeah again just just to really see it up close i you know you have some inkling of the way the world works even getting to know you know relative power circles but this was a whole other level and so yeah we'll have more stories by the way shout out again i want to give the real shout out ryan grim mortaza those guys they did all the israel reporting they got their first incredible stuff going through it also final shout out jason leopold over at Bloomberg. Let's put C2 up on the screen

because I think this is his report. He also has this. He's great. This was also, you know, he did a FOIA request to say, hey, see, hey, what's going on with this, you know, effort to redact the Epstein files and he was able to get his hands

on some internal government correspondence and, you know, basically found the amount of overtime hours that were spent between March 17th and March 22nd, FBI personnel clocked in a total of 4,700 37 hours of overtime. Actually, sorry, that was between January and July. Of that more than 70% occurred during the month of March alone while personnel were reviewing the Epstein files at a

total taxpayer dollar amount of, you know, over a million dollars. And so you've got, yeah, I mean, it's important to see what's going on here behind the scenes where they're going through. We don't know what the nature of these redactions were. I don't think that he's been able to get his hands on exactly what they were looking for and the ways that that they were trying to scrub these files. But, you know, this is leading up to them being, oh, there's nothing to see here. And, you know, let's case close.

Let's move on. Going from, I have the files on my desk, they're being reviewed to, uh, he killed himself and there's really nothing going on here. Anyway, we're all moving on. So he gets a little bit of the backstory here of what was happening behind closed doors. Yeah, the redactions and the review process,

you can just see, like, how crazed that they are to try. And to do this, the FOIA that, that he was able to get basically gets to all of the he said the number of hours as you said and the you know hundreds of thousands of dollars that they clocked 40 you know 4700 hours of overtime so yes shout out to jason people really should go subscribe to him on twitter and stuff he calls himself a foyer terrorist and he really is he's one of the goats here i want to give him a lot of credit uh for breaking some of this stuff wide open because what he did i think also with the the initial Bloomberg story is he broke

a lot of these emails, because he was the person who got first access to them, who broke some of this stuff out into the open that revealed this power nexus. A lot of these people, these billionaires and others, they're not responding to me for comment, but they did respond to Jason. And so they had to, right, it's Bloomberg fucking news, right?

So they had to come forward and offer an explanation or any of that. He broke it down, their team did a very digestible job. So yeah, we're just going to continue to try and add on to some of the stuff that we know, some of the intelligence connections, Israel stuff and others. But this email set has been, you know, shared with a variety of different journalists. And I think that's great. That's what, that's how it needs to be. And anybody out there,

if you have more, send it along, especially anything pre 05 and post-2013. I would love to read it. Not the stuff that the House of Representatives has, the real stuff, is actual email, stuff that hasn't been vetted or any of that. We, you know, obviously we're not releasing everything because that has names of victims and private information, financial information. all kinds of stuff. We're doing a lot of work behind the scenes just to make sure everything we put out verified, vetted, asked for comment and all of that. It takes a lot of work. So there you go. Thank you all very much for that. All right. Let's get to Cash Patel, shall we? Put this up here on the screen. Just too. This one's too good. All right. So this is interesting that this is in the New York Post too.

Oh, yeah. Miranda Devine, she had a bunch of scoops with regard to the Charlie Kirk investigation as well. So she is plugged in here with the FBI, and she's plugged in with some people who are really not super psyched about Cash Patel. Not just the FBI, the MAGA contingent of the FBI. That doesn't include Cash Patel. Okay. So she says FBI director Cash Patel is facing withering criticism from an alliance of active duty and retired agents days after the White House denied media reports the president's going to fire him. A troubling new report card on the first six months of Patel's leadership concludes he is in over his head and his quote, deputy Dan Bongino, is something of a clown, which in pre-tuvious reports warned about crippling DEI and politicization. So these are people who have warned about DEI and politicization of the FBI under Biden, all right? So can we just say that they're not-switches?

They're not libs. All right? She says, the FBI under Patel is described as, quote, rudderless ship and all fucked up. Patel is described by the multiple interstances as inexperienced. One source saying is neither the breadth of experience nor the bearing an FBI director should be successful. Another self-professed Trump supporter said Patel is not good, maybe insecure, lacks a requisite experience, and a measured self-confidence to be the FBI director. Some of the heavy criticism stems from Patel's behavior in Salt Lake City after the Charlie Kirk assassination. He was accused of giving premature public remarks that jeopardized the investigation, taking credit for the work of other agencies, yelling and swearing at the agent in charge.

Both he and Bongino were criticized for arrogance and an unfortunate obsession with social media. One source said he needed to stop talking, stop posing, just be professional. Another said he is spending too much time on social media and public relations too often concerned with building their own personal resumes. This was all written in the style of an official FBI intelligence assessment, analyzing reports from sources and subforces, and using anecdotes to illustrate troubling themes. Now, this is my personal favorite one. On September 11th, 2025, the day after Kirk was assassinated, Patel flew into Provo, Utah. This, by the way, is according to this report, just to we're all clear.

Patel flew into Provo, Utah on the FBI jet, quote, would not disembark from the plane without an FBI raid jacket, according to a highly respected source who has served in the FBI for decades. Quote, Patel did not have his own FBI jacket with him and refused to step from the plane without wearing one. agents at Salt Lake City, busy working on the Kirk case, had to stop and ask around to find an FBI raid jacket, a, quote, medium-sized one that would fit. That one hurts, cash. When a jacket belonging to a female agent was delivered to Patel on the plane, he complained that two areas on the upper sleeves did not have Velcro patches attached. Let's put those images up here on the screen, please. Patel would not leave the plane until he had. two patches to cover those areas. So members of an FBI SWAT team took patches off their own uniforms, ran those patches over to Patel at the airport. The patches were then attached to the loner

FBI raid jacket. Patel disembarked from the plane. Patel did not have a positive impression. The director was, quote, not happy with the way the investigation was going, yelled at the special agent in charge, directed an expletive-laden tirade over perceived blunders in the case. Brangino later called him and apologized for his tirade saying that should never have happened. They say, Patel did a disservice to the FBI by breaking with Bureau tradition and then taking credit for good work by other agencies and seemingly to imply results that would not have been possible without Patel's involvement. In another situation, he was said to be so upset that a discussion took place among a few FBI

FBI personnel that has requested he issued an FBI firearm and was very upset that people had learned about that when details of the discussion leak, he ordered everyone to get polygraphed to find out who had criticized him described.

This is what we get for putting influencers in positions of power. Yeah, so I think those are my two personal favorite ones that we can stick with. This doesn't even get to the whole private jet thing that we had talked about. visiting his romantic interests, who has, quote, what did he say, has done more for this country

than most people have done in 10 lifetries. Yeah. Country music sensation. I don't know if you, I mean, I don't know if you guys remember all the details, but he was a mess. No, he was a huge thing. Because he was tweeting things.

And that's part of what they're saying in this report is like, dude, stop posting and like focus on your freaking job and stop worrying so much about what people are saying on Twitter and actually do what you're supposed to do. because he was posting inaccurate information. Oh, we got the guy and then turns out. Oh, no, you don't got the guy. And then I remember, too, we were waiting.

They had announced they were going to do this press conference. We were waiting for it. And it's like, what is going on? What is happening with this press conference? It was hours and hours. And now we know what the hangup was. Cash was waiting to get his female-sized medium jacket so that he could, you know, have the FBI jacket look.

Not that it helps him. people also still commented during that press conference how he looked totally lost and out of his depths. So the FBI jacket did not save him from the public judgment. And then, you know, you've had, of course, all the stuff about the girlfriend, of course, all of the like, you know, Epstein Files disaster, that disastrous appearance with Joe Rogan also, you know, was a major problem for him. And look, that's the one field where he should be expert. I mean, he's a podcast or he should be expert at that. And you couldn't even, you know, nail that one with Joe Rogan. And then you also had, in this investigation at the press conference, right after these two National Guardsmen were shot,

he says, we're going to, we're looking for who did this. And they're like, dude, we've got the guy. Like, he's in custody. What are you talking about? So it's just a comedy of errors. You know, there was a report, I think, from MS now about how he was on the ounce and Trump may fire him. He may be let go.

They are denying that. I have no idea whether the, you know, there's any veracity to that or not. I have a feeling that in some ways having, especially the liberal press being, you know, MSNBC, the liberal press reporting on that probably Harden Trump like he wouldn't want to be seen to like giving in to them. New York Post is a different matter, though. I mean, this is aligned media more or less. And so that's part of why having this report from Miranda Devine in the New York Post is pretty devastating, much more devastating than something that would come out of CNN or MSNC or do you know what Dan Bongino called her?

He called her Deep State Moran, or Deep State DeVuant. I mean, they're just... Shamelessness. Yeah. Shamelessness. And Bonino, I don't remember the day. He threw some whole fit of the Epstein thing and went home and they was going to resign. And then he came back with his tail between his legs.

And he's basically been sidelined now. They put somebody else. They put somebody else like in his position. Deep State Devine. So he's been equally embarrassing, but he's already sort of been demoted in sidelines. Miranda DeVine is, I mean, as Trump friendly as you get. Yeah. But she's also just, look, look.

I mean, honestly, props to her because what it shows is she's not a complete sycophant. She did that podcast. She's interviewed a bunch of different Trump officials. Remember, she asked the J.D., a couple of UFO questions. But, yeah, his response was Deep State DeVine strikes again. Miranda, ridiculous. Miranda loves attacking a reform agenda with gossipy anecdotes from disgruntled former employees. A reform agenda of covering up the Epstein files.

She's upset her reporting, keeps falling under scrutiny. You can always count on Miranda. for a timed hit piece when the director and I make big changes. She prefers the old guard. I don't. Again, these are people who, these are FBI agents

who are sounding the alarm under Biden, who are MAGA friendly and their deep state. Okay. I mean, I'm also, I'm so sick of these people trying to post like their Trump. Oh, I know.

Like the nicknames and the like the whole stylistic. Like, it's so, it's so pathetic. It's just so sad and tired at this point. Like, we can all see what you're doing. You don't have your own identity. You have to try to channel the big man. And it doesn't work for anyone other than Donald Trump.

So anyway, just, you know, just really sad stuff all the way around, really sad stuff. Pathetic. All right. and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product with every sip you get a little something different.

Visit gentlemen's cutbuburn.com or your nearest total wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com. Please enjoy responsibly. I'm Robert Smith.

And this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas and destructive companies in the history of business. First episode, How Southwest Airlines Use Cheap Seats and Free Whiskey to fight its way into the airline is. The most Texas story ever. Listen to Business History on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro. We were in the car, like a rolling stone came on, and he said, there's a line in there about your mother.

And I said, what? What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have. I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened. These are just a few of the moving and important stories on my 13th season of Family Secrets. Listen to Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.