Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 12/27/21: Young People, CIA Crimes, Financial Regulation, Hillary's Tears, and More!

Episode Date: December 27, 2021

Krystal and Saagar talk about despondent young people, CIA covering up crimes, the future of financial regulation, Hillary Clinton's tears, and more!To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.supercast.com/To listen to Breaking Points as a podcast, check them out on Apple and SpotifyApple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/breaking-points-with-krystal-and-saagar/id1570045623 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4Kbsy61zJSzPxNZZ3PKbXl Merch: https://breaking-points.myshopify.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. the recording studios. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and badder than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila. And we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast, brought to you by the Black

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Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community. I was calling about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there. Each week, I investigate a new case. If there's a case we should hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal and Sagar. We're going to be totally upfront with you. We took a

big risk going independent. To make this work, we need your support to beat the corporate media. CNN, Fox, MSNBC, they are ripping this country apart. They are making millions of dollars doing it. To help support our mission of making all of us hate each other less, hate the corrupt ruling class more, support the show. Become a Breaking Points premium member today, where you get to watch and listen to the entire show ad-free and uncut an hour early before everyone else. You get to hear our reactions to each other's monologues. You get to participate in weekly Ask Me Anythings, and you don't need to hear our annoying voices pitching you like I am right now. So what are you waiting for? Go to breakingpoints.com, become a premium member today, which is available in the show notes. Enjoy the show, guys. We're always looking to see how young people are feeling about the state of politics. A lot of the

attention that we pay is to the people who are actually going to vote. A lot of the people who, you know, turn out in the primaries, who are more politically engaged, those are disproportionately going to be boomers, Gen X, and just older, more engaged people in general. Young people largely don't vote. A lot of them have very dystopian views of politics, but they're citizens and their views are not reflected in our government whatsoever. So there's a new poll from the Harvard Kennedy School. Let's put it up there on the screen.

52% of 18 to 29-year-olds believe American democracy is either, quote, in trouble or failing. Nearly half of young Republicans place the chances of a second civil war at 50% or higher compared to 32% of Democrats. Neither one is a good number, by the way. Yeah. I would generally say I want that number to be as low as possible. And 52% is a real problem and is especially a disaster.

And I really think what you can see within the poll and in terms of how people feel is just a complete hopelessness that anything is going to get better. I think that's what always is. The Civil War thing is generally LARPing to me. Really what it is, it's like it's not going to get better. I don't see how things can get better. And I think one of the reasons why you see that is the intractable problems of your lifetime. If you're below 35 or 40 years old, what has been solved? We've seen a record booming economy of the nineties turned into whatever the hell we're living in right now. The war in Iraq was a total disaster. The government and the president literally lied

to our face while our friends and people that we knew went abroad and died in a war, which, look, I hate saying it. I respect their service, but ultimately what was achieved? A financial crisis twice in a lifetime that you see people just get wiped out. A lot of these Republicans, disproportionately very likely to be people who didn't go to college. Their wages have stagnated for 40 years, have only recently gone up because of the great resignation. How long is that going to last? I mean, Hollywood and all of that, obviously totally taken over by a very specific ideology. I think that's where a lot of it comes from, Crystal. It's just, you know, the other thing that really came out to me was this. Half of young Americans in the poll

say they are a different person because of COVID-19. Yeah. COVID changed everything for people who were our age and younger. And the people who are older, it just kind of, you know, it was something. It was, you know, but it wasn't the transformative event that it was, I think, for a lot of us. I think there's just a sense that the priorities of the younger generation are not remotely reflected in our current political system or nation writ large. And so, yeah, they feel like, of course you would feel like democracy is failing when you feel like your preferences and your votes don't matter. You know, when you've, what you've experienced in your lifetime is one setback after another, after another, one crisis after another, after another as a nation. Of course,

you look at that and go, no, this is not going well whatsoever. As just one indicator of that, you know, they asked the approval rating of various politicians. So you can throw this up on the screen. Bernie, still the most popular, plus 12%. Biden, barely eking out a plus 2%. Plus 2. Harris, minus 3. Pelosi, minus 22. And Trump, minus 33.

Now listen, who is likely to be the matchup next time around? Either Trump or Harris or Biden, none of whom have very favorable ratings among this group. So you're looking at even, the, even the choices, quote unquote choices that are being offered and you're going, I don't like any of these people. Like where is one politician, where is one leader that I might be able to believe in and get behind and who reflects the values that, that I have in my sense that we're in free fall and that we need, you know, some relatively dramatic change to get things back on track.

And that's just not even on the menu in the political system. Another thing they point to is, you know, not only do half feel like they are a different person because of the pandemic, there's also some very troubling numbers here about the number of young Americans who report being down, depressed, and hopeless. A majority, half, 51%, say they're either down, depressed, or hopeless. 25%, a quarter of our young adults saying they have thoughts of self-harm at least several times in the last two weeks. I mean, you think about a failing society. Like, these are the individuals who are the future. They should be the bright shining stars.

They should have the whole, you know, the world is their oyster and their whole life is ahead of them and feeling excited and engaged and optimistic about the future if we were a healthy society. Instead, they're anxious and depressed and worried and a quarter, one out of four, having repeated thoughts of self-harm. That's a national catastrophe. And again, when you have a generation, I mean, these are, again, massive warning signs for society. You have a generation that feels totally disconnected from the democratic process, barely believes in it anymore, and that has all of this, you know, anger and dissatisfaction and has been cut off at the knees time and time again in their young lives in terms of being able to build a stable life and potentially have a family and all of those normal things, it doesn't lead to a good place.

I mean, that just doesn't end well when you shut off the aspirations of your youngest generation. No, I mean, look, how would you define a successful presidency? This is not hard. Most young people are actually very united in this. And look, I know partisanship skews it, but number one, strengthening the economy, 58%. Number two, bringing the country together, 45%. Number three, improving healthcare, 42%. I'll never forget the first job I had where I didn't have my parents' health insurance anymore, and my deductible was $7,000. I was like, oh, okay, cool. Like, I guess, you know, if I get hit by a bus, I'll be all right. I was like, barring that, better be careful. And then I think I thought for a time I had stress fractures or whatever in my feet. I put it off for months because I was like, I do not want to go to the damn doctor. Ended up getting a several thousand dollar bill for the MRI. So thank you very much, healthcare system.

Number four was addressing climate change, 33%. Reducing economic inequality, 32%. Improving our public education system, 28%. Social justice, 25%. America's standing on the international stage, 20%. I mean, the top three alone. Healthcare, bringing the country together, strengthening the economy. Huge support amongst young people.

Because they're the ones who get screwed, especially on the back end. And over and over again, what they point to, this is also another one that I kind of liked. They value compromise over confrontation. I don't think they mean it in the D.C. sense of like, let's compromise to invade Afghanistan. They're like, look, we have major structural problems all across the board. Something has got to happen. The country is sclerotic. It's not working for us.

We can't afford a home, can't afford rent, moving back in with our parents, depressed, contemplating self-harm. And also this pandemic just robbed us of two of the most valuable years of our lives. Somebody please just do something. Yeah. And I think that's what they mean whenever they say confidence. I think the climate change piece is really significant too, for obvious reasons. I mean, and this bears down another polling I've seen, like the, it's actually oftentimes it's the youngest generation and the oldest generation that are most concerned about climate change. Cause I think there's a sense of like, well, what am I passing forward to my grandkids? And then for young people, it's obviously like,'re most concerned about climate change because I think there's a sense of like, well, what am I passing forward to my grandkids?

And then for young people, it's obviously like, what kind of a world am I going to live in? How is this all going to work out? And there's an overwhelming sense that the Biden administration is not doing nearly enough to address climate change. A majority, 56 percent of young Americans, expect climate change to impact their future decisions. Nearly half already see its local effects. So just one more instance where they feel their views and priorities and the issues that are going to shape their ability to have safe and happy lives not being reflected by our political class whatsoever. So major red flags here in terms of the health of society and the nation. And then you go and look at the other, the last thing they pull is less than one third of young people believe

that America is the greatest country in the world. They don't believe in America the way that previous generations did. And based on their experience, who could blame them? Yeah. Who could blame them? I know. That one hurts the most. It really is sad. But look, you know, you got to prove it in order to actually be it. So that's what we have to work on the most. All right, guys. Thanks so much for watching. We're going to have more for you later. Wanted to bring you a stunning and deeply troubling report from BuzzFeed News about some of the inner workings of the CIA. Let's throw this tear sheet up on the screen. So apparently, secret CIA files reveal that staffers have committed sex crimes involving children and not been prosecuted. Here is the lead of that story. Over the past 14 years,

the Central Intelligence Agency has secretly amassed credible evidence that at least 10 of its employees and contractors committed sexual crimes involving children. Though most of the cases were referred to U.S. attorneys for prosecution, only one of those individuals was ever charged with a crime. Prosecutors sent the rest of the cases back to the CIA to handle internally, meaning few faced any consequences beyond the possible loss of their jobs and security clearances. To give you a sense of just how disgusting and outrageous the alleged behavior was, one employee had sexual contact with a two-year-old and a six-year-old.

Again, this person never prosecuted. He was fired. A second employee purchased three sexually explicit videos of young girls filmed by their mothers. He resigned. Third employee estimated he had viewed up to 1,400 sexually abusive images of children while on agency assignments. Records do not say what action, if any, the CIA took against him. Contractor who arranged for sex with an undercover FBI agent posing as a child had his contract revoked. Again, only one of the individuals cited in all these documents was ever charged with a crime. And in that case, as in the only previously known case of a CIA staffer being charged with child sex crimes, the employee was also under investigation for mishandling classified

material. So that was apparently what they were really concerned about, not the fact of sex crimes being committed against children. What's really disgusting here is that they actually went and talked to somebody. They're like, how the hell does this happen? Here's what they say, quote, we can't have these people testify. They may inadvertently be forced to disclose sources and methods. They said they understand the need to disclose sources and methods. They said they understand the need to protect sensitive and classified equities. However, for crimes of a certain class, whether it's intelligency, you have to figure out how to prosecute these people. That's what one person who's working there currently says, who also says that child abuse

images, problems there stretch back decades. So think about how ghoulish these people are. They're literally protecting pedophiles because they would rather protect them than reveal, quote, sources and methods in open U.S. court. So they would just let these people get away with it. I mean, two-year-old and a six-year-old, look, you know, where I come from, they tried to pass death penalty for that, and I support it. And, you know, you look at this stuff. It's blood boiling. They put it out in the open. My particular favorite is the guy who was soliciting underage sex from a person who turned out to be an FBI agent and engaged in a chat with them.

And then they tried to cover it up even though the FBI had them dead to rights. And that person ultimately just ended up getting fired. And they also were found to have extensively downloaded child pornography. Look, these people should be sitting in prison for decades. That's why. We have the most stringent laws on this stuff for a reason, which is that if you engage in it, you should never see the light of day again. And all of these people were completely let off because the CIA would rather protect sources and methods than protect children. Yeah, that's the bottom line. And this is – there are some troubling indications that these 10 are really just the tip of the iceberg. They report that at a symposium in 2016, Daniel Payne, who was a top Pentagon security official, said that when workers' computers were examined, quote,

the amount of child porn I see is just unbelievable. So it also begs the question, right, because the same rationalization of like, ah, we can't prosecute them because we don't want our dirty laundry aired and our secrets aired in the public square. Well, that could apply to any crime. Of course. I mean, that just means if you work for the CIA, you just get a blank check to do whatever the hell you want because they never want to prosecute you because they're too afraid of their secrets coming out. So they'd rather let pedophiles get away with sex crimes against children than have them face accountability because they can't possibly have any of their

secrets come out. And remember that report that we covered a couple of months ago about how FBI informants have been found to have committed 22,800 crimes between 2011 and 2014 and were authorized to do so. Not only that, they were paid over $550 million in recent years, and that's only 2011 to 2014. Who the hell knows what it is right now in response to BLM and January 6th, crimes that are being authorized, unindicted co-conspirators, some people just disappear, even though they're on video. I mean, you are getting a real view into what these people allow some of the most heinous criminals to get away with as long as they're inside the machine and they protect the machine. Yep.

And your taxpayer dollars go in to pay their salaries. Yeah. All right, guys. Thanks so much for watching. We'll have more for you later. Joining us now, we have Leigh Harris. She is a writing fellow for The American Prospect and has a great new piece.

Let's go ahead and put it up on the screen. Titled, What the New Sheriffs of Wall Street Can Do. Taking a look at both some of the new regulators who've been put in place and also some of what the new risks in the banking sector are. Lee, welcome. We're glad to have you. Good to see you, Leigh. Thanks. Really excited to be on. Of course. So let's build a story from the ground up.

Start with who the people and the players are that you write about here. So I write about a number of new financial regulators that Biden has put in. So there are big names like Gary Gensler, who was actually pretty well known as someone who didn't play ball with industry in the Obama administration. He's now leading the Securities and Exchange Commission. But he has a lot of really promising people under him, like his policy director, Heather Lavin-Corzo, who is at the AFL-CIO, and some real critics of climate risk as well, who

are concerned about how the fossil fuel crisis could undermine the financial system. Then there are other people like Rohit Chopra, who was previously of the Federal Trade Commission and who's now heading up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. He's a real critic of some of these pieces of dating tech and a real kind of antitrust champion. And then there are kind of people throughout the administration. Another person who I write about is Graham Steele, a huge antitrust advocate and critic of giants like BlackRock, who is pretty high up at

the Treasury now. Now, not every new person who's been appointed as a financial regulator is a critic of Wall Street. In fact, the kind of interesting dynamic is that there are a lot of appointees who have been drawn from the Fed. And there's, I think, real fear about the Fed's institutional conservatism coming in and kind of stymieing some of the reformers who want to be tougher on Wall Street. So it's definitely not a done deal. But Biden has put in a number of surprisingly big critics of Wall Street. You know, Lee, one of the things that I get from your piece is just so how complicated some of the current financial technology has moved, and how so much of it is a total complicated some of the current financial technology has moved and how so much of

it is a total black box of regulation. So you talk about fintech, about crypto, about, if you can explain this to us, what SIFI, SIFI, I think it's called. Can you explain some of those more complex technologies and then where the regulatory aspect might come into play. For sure. So one kind of weird dynamic I talk about is the way in which banks, big banks and conventional banks are the villains, but in the way that a lot of these regulators have said since 2008, and they certainly need to be regulated more forcefully. But also surprisingly, a lot of financial risk has migrated outside of banks into big tech companies that are producing new financial instruments and also into the new shadow banking system. So if you think back to 2008, the shadow banks were kind of on Wall Street.

These broker-dealers, which weren't subject to prudential regulation, to any of the regulation that banks had to comply with, they basically copied the bank business model in this huge act of regulatory arbitrage, leveraged themselves up, and then proceeded to blow up, and everyone made that story. But now, in the wake of that, there's this funny dynamic where the banks do have a number of new guardrails that have been put on them, like capital requirements. And Don Frank, which was that big piece of post 2008 regulation, it's true that it didn't go far enough, but it has required banks to have kind of more of a cushion in the event of a crisis. But meanwhile, big asset managers like BlackRock

and hedge funds, private capital that's completely unaccountable to regulators and where there's even less transparency than we have in the banks, they've been taking on new forms of risk really outside of the regulatory perimeter of what regulators are studying. So that's all a kind of long-winded way of saying that if all that these new regulators do is come in and regulate the big banks, they'll be missing a lot of the picture. Interesting.

Talk a little bit more about BlackRock specifically, which you single out here as particularly important and influential. What is it about them that makes them so significant and such an important target for additional regulation? Yeah, I'd say it's both their sheer size, their market power, and the amount of information they have on the market, and then their political influence.

So just to go through that, as of, I think, 2019, BlackRock itself held a 5% or greater stake in 97.5% of S&P 500 companies. So it has a huge amount of influence with all the major companies that investors are buying and it also operates so yeah just the amount of concentration itself is huge but but I think what regulators are more worried about in some ways is

its political influence and its inside so it operates this technology platform that's really worth looking up called Aladdin that has trade and ownership information for about 10% of global stocks and bonds. Basically, it has visibility that's kind of unrivaled into its rivals and into financial markets generally. And that's one reason that the Fed hired BlackRock to manage its corporate bond buying it as part of the pandemic response and and that put blackrock among other things the position of buying its own ets so there was there was a lot of criticism of that as kind of self-dealing but even that maybe misses the bigger picture which is just the sheer amount of information that makes blackrock really hard to compete with and then finally it has um

kind of political influence on a more personal level in a kind of revolving doorway. I mean, BlackRock CEO Larry Fink advised President Trump last year on the U.S. COVID response. The Biden administration is certainly stacked with BlackRock staffers. So there's just so much interpenetration between this sprawling asset manager and the government.

And so would the idea be additional regulation or would the idea be to break up BlackRock? That's the thing. It's kind of an ongoing debate among regulators. So this guy mentioned Graham Steele has written not just about regulating BlackRock, but actually enforcing antitrust law against it um but but there's kind of a debate over whether these really influential non-bank institutions should be given this the designation that you mentioned which means systemically important financial institution that's basically a too big to fail designation or if they should just be broken up um and and it's an interesting debate because FSOC, which is the committee where kind of all the U.S. financial regulators come together and try to coordinate a coherent regulatory strategy. That's the main tool it has at its disposal is designating entities as too big to fail. But it hasn't really taken advantage of that tool. So there's an argument

that they should do that not only for big banks like Citigroup and J.P. Morgan, but also for insurance companies and other financial giants that have a lot of market importance, but that aren't regulated as stringently as banks. But others say that it's not enough just to call something too big to fail. And in some ways, that that would institutionalize its power and make it – yeah, that there are basically hazards and risks with calling something too big to fail and that instead these groups should just be broken up. Absolutely. Lee, I mean, this is a very useful intro into how all this stuff works. There's a lot of chatter online, but this is an actual deep dive. We'll put a link in the description and we really appreciate you joining us. Thank you. Thanks so much. Our pleasure. Thanks for watching, guys. We'll have more for you later.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton making some big moves recently. Of course, we brought you some of the press she's been doing, but this is the next level of, I guess, her plans for the future. She's doing what's called a master class. I don't know if you guys are aware of this. It's one of those annoying companies that's always in a YouTube ad about master class. That's exactly where you probably know it from. Anyway, Hillary Clinton is teaching a masterclass on perseverance. We got

a little sneak peek into what she is offering students there. She exclusively read the entirety of what would have been her victory speech if she hadn't, you know, run the worst campaign ever and doomed us all to four years of Donald Trump. Let's take a listen to a little bit of that. I think about my mother every day. Sometimes I think about her on that train. I wish I could walk down the aisle. I wish I could walk down the aisle and find the little wooden seats where she sat, holding tight to her even younger sister, alone, terrified. She doesn't yet know how much she will suffer.

She doesn't yet know she will find the strength to escape that suffering that is still a long way off. The whole future is still unknown, and she stares out at the moving past her. I dream of going up to her. She goes on to say that her mother doesn't, wouldn't know that her daughter would go on to be President of the United States, and she's very choked up about that. I mean, I don't know. I don't want to be. Look, I'll say it.

Save us your crocodile tears, and stop charging people in order to watch you cry. I don't think it's crocodile tears. I think she genuinely feels very, very sad that she destroyed her president. I mean, I don't think she has any sort of self-reflection about her own failings and how she ended up handing the presidential election to Donald Trump. I do think she feels very sad that she was never president of the United States. Yeah, you're right. Because, I mean, for decades, for decades, that was the goal. That was the plan. That was what she really believed in her mind. They didn't even write a concession speech.

I mean, they were popping champagne. They thought this was a done deal. And so, yeah, I think she is genuinely sad that Hillary Rodham Clinton never got to be president. Yeah, you're right. I should have forgotten what she's actually upset about and what she actually cares about. She's also hosting her own HRC Honors Awards. Let's put that up there on the screen. She goes and finds five incredible women working for women's rights and human rights. This is the thing. She co-hosted this with Made Madeline Albright, by the way. Oh, classic. FYI. What these people just cannot stand is the idea that A, they failed, B, the country has moved on from them. But think about how craven it is. Why is she charging people money at this point in order to see this type of exclusive content? You are worth, what, 50 to 100 million dollars from paid speeches and from,

you know, daughter is just such a genius, happens to be sitting on corporate boards, of course, that's why. It's like you don't need the money. Why are you getting involved in these types of things? If you do actually care about educating people or whatever on perseverance, do it for free and go, you know, guest lecture or whatever at a university, preferably like a community college or something, not some Ivy League place where they don't actually need it. It's just, you know, I always see these types of things, these gross money grabs. She's just trying to stay relevant. That's what this all is. Well, and there's a lot here. I mean, first of all, if you care about the destruction of the Democratic Party, it begins the party away from a working class base towards,

you know, like white suburbanites, liberal suburbanites, effectively, white collar workers. So that's Bill. And then the end is Hillary Clinton, worst candidate for the moment, you know, getting all of that, having the primary rigged for her so she could defeat Bernie and then running a terrible campaign and losing to Donald Trump. And the fact that, so we say they lost and the country's done with them. I wish that was actually true, though, because the reality is like a lot of Hillary staffers went and worked for Kamala Harris. Yes. Who now sits in theala Harris. Yes, yeah.

Who now sits in the White House. They're everywhere, right. This was, as you guys know, I read the entire Huma Abedin book, thinking that maybe there'd be some accidental glimpse of reality and truth in there that wasn't all spoiler alert. But at the end, the very last part that she says is, I know that ultimately we accomplished something great, I'm paraphrasing, because now we get to see Kamala Harris in office as vice president. And so even while the Clintons may be sort of in the rearview mirror, what they have wrought on the country, both the long-term economic trajectory but also Hillary's spin of why she lost wasn't because she ran a terrible campaign and people didn't want what they had to offer and neoliberalism had failed. It was, call me, Russia, misinformation.

You're exactly right. And we've been doomed to that hell ever since. So that's why I feel a lot of ways about Hillary Clinton. Well, you should feel that way. Her tears, look, we're not trying to be callous or anything. What it is is you have to recognize that these people, when they enter public life, it becomes much bigger than them. And like I said, I look at that and I see a pathetic attempt in order to grift

and to make even more money, to continue to cash in, to monetize well-meaning people who may like her, who have never reconciled with the fact that she lost terribly, and that they should admit it and they should really think about why. I've updated my priors a million times since I even started this show. I get to learn here with all of you in real time. I mean, so many people are just completely stuck. And what would it say about me or us if we would just lie and be like, no, no, no, actually it's because of this or that. It's like, no, you know, you can just be wrong. You

can fail. It's okay. But you know, that's, that's not what's because of this or that. It's like, no, you can just be wrong. You can fail. It's okay. But that's not what these people are used to doing. That's not what they will do. They have too much to protect, and so they end up charging people on master class six years after losing a presidential election. What a come down. Yeah.

Thought you were going to be president of the United States, and instead you're hawking your class on master class. With, like, Gordon Ramsay. Yeah. No disrespect. I love Gordon Ramsay. Yeah, but, yeah, it's different than being president. Anyway, that's our little Clinton update for the day. Enjoy your day.

We'll have more for you later. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Sure. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war. This year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. This kind of star-stud in a little bit, man.

We met them at their homes. We met them at their recording studios. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and badder than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila. And we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast, brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday. Yeah, we're moms. But not your mommy. Historically, men talk too much.

And women have quietly listened. And all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your tribe. Listen to the Good Moms, Bad Choices podcast every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you go to find your podcasts. Over the years of making my true crime podcast,

Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community. I was calling about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there. Each week, I investigate a new case. If there is a case we should hear about, call 678-744-6145.

Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.