Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 12/27/23: Tucker Carlson SOUNDS OFF On Ben Shapiro, Israel, Free Speech And UFOs

Episode Date: December 27, 2023

Saagar sits down with Tucker Carlson to talk about Israel, Free Speech, UFO's, and Ben Shapiro. To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: https://breakingpoints.supercast.com/ Sign up for Tucker's new network here: https://tuckercarlson.com/ Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Oh, thanks for having me, Tucker. Thank you. Absolutely. I owe my entire career to this man, and I always say that to anybody who will listen. So I appreciate you very much, and especially, though, about what you're doing now. You've launched this new company, the Tucker Carlson Network. You're free of cable news, I think for the first time in what, in decades. So first and foremost, how does it feel? And what do you want to try and accomplish now that you are generally free of the system? So I'm following your path. I probably never would have done it if it hadn't been done for me. So I'm grateful that I was unexpectedly

bounced from my last job because, you know, inertia takes over and you get in your tunnel and you just do your thing every day. And having a daily show, as you know, is like, it's so busy that you can't think about anything in larger terms. So I'm sincerely glad that I was forced to make a change. I have, over the last year, really come to only read independent media, just because I don't trust anything else. So I'm proud to be in it. And what I want to do is really simple, create a news company that can't be canceled. I mean, having been, you know, I'm not whining about it,

but, you know, having been silenced a couple of times, having been, you know, I'm not whining about it, but, you know, having been silenced a couple of times, several times, I don't want that again. So, you know, you need a business model that is impervious to coordinated attacks against you. And that's the subscription model, because I'm happy to have advertisers, but you can't be dependent on the whims of advertisers in a world where, you know, there are very well-funded organizations designed to bully advertisers into leaving you. So that's why we went with a subscription model, part subscription model. But mostly I want to do what you do, and I think most people in this world do, cover the stories that are getting no attention at all,

that are often the most important stories, certainly the most interesting stories, and be honest, be really honest, as honest as you can possibly be. And you can only do that when you're in a certain headspace. Absolutely. But I think it's super important. Yeah, I mean, the day you let go from Fox News, I texted you. I said, I believe that this is the best thing that could ever happen to you. And I still believe it. I'm curious, though, there's a big debate amongst media experts. They're like, well, Fox News is a machine and all of this, but they don't seem to really grapple with the decline of the medium itself. So I'm curious, do you think independent media and even the company that you are building,

could it ever rival the power of cable in terms of cultural cachet, in terms of driving politics, or do you think that they're still going to retain a lot of the power that they still have? Oh, no, I think they're done. And for a couple of reasons. One is business related. I don't think the model works. It's too expensive, by the way. I don't think NBC News will be here in 10 years.

I'd bet my car on it. So there's that. I mean, they're in decline inexorably. They actually have lasted a lot longer. The age of television went on much longer than I thought it would. I started doing it in 1995. I had grown up in it because my dad did it. So I've seen it longitudinally for over 50 years, and I'm just amazed at its durability.

But everything comes to an end, our lives included. And so, yeah, no, that's definitely going away. But I also think, not to be preachy, they devalued their own currency by lying too much. I mean, you know, people lie, they share the truth, they withhold things. I mean, that's just like part of the human condition. But you can't be just like a flat out propaganda organization for like Pfizer, because it's just too obvious. And when people figure out that that's what you are, they don't trust you. And in a world with choices, they will choose not to believe you, and then they will choose not to watch you. And the numbers show that that's

happening. So the other thing I would say is that it's not simply about convincing all 350 million Americans of something, the way our society and all societies are structured, if you can convince, you know, the top 2% of the population who engage with this stuff daily, who are probably making most of the decisions, you can have a massive effect on the whole country. And so like Substack, for example, you know, I can't believe how many Substacks I subscribe to, I pay for because I want to support it, but also I get a lot, I mean, they've taken the place of what small magazines were when I was a kid, or books were when my father was a kid. You know, a place for people to air their views in a longer form and in a more honest way.

Like, what is going on in our society? You can actually learn a lot from Substack. You learn absolutely nothing from the cable news channels. So just that, it's a small company. It'll probably never be a huge company, but it's had a huge effect. Shows like yours that came completely out of nowhere, you know, with people who were not nationally famous, and then you become nationally famous just because you're being honest.

I mean, like, look at your own life. It kind of tells the story. I don't know how old you were when you started it, but your ascent and the ascent of a number of people like you, not just to cover politics, but who are, you know, effectively cultural commentators or comedians who are honest, Theo Vaughn, you know, how many people have heard of Theo Vaughn last year? Maybe, you know, some, but all of a sudden Theo Vaughn becomes this phenomenon because he's honest.

I mean, so there's a massive space that's all a reaction against the lying. And I think it's like the bright spot in America in 2023. Oh, it's very kind of you to say. I think one of the things- It's true. One of the people want to hear from you, I think, is that you played the game at the highest level. And so are all of our suspicions true about what's being told to people in the anchor chair about what you can say, about what you can't say, about commercial impact, about the pressure in the cooker situation as to what's being controlled that people are seeing? You know, I really should write a book on this, not that anyone would read it, but just to sort of work out my own thoughts about it. You know, again, when you're working in a business that's that regimented, you know, the show every night, exactly the same time, you can't be late, you know, it's like your whole life,

and I wrote my script, so my whole life was about writing my script. Like, that's kind of all I did. So I was telling you that to admit that I missed a lot. I personally, because this was not my first show, it was like my eighth show that I'd had over. I personally, because this was not my first show, it was like my eighth show that I'd had over the course of my life, I made a very clear deal with my employer out loud and just said, look, I'm not going to be told what to say or think, period. It's not my company. If

you don't like what I'm saying, take me off the air. But I'm not going to sort of say or not say something because that would violate my conscience and I can't do that. So, and they agreed to their great credit. And then at the end, they exercised their option and pulled the plug, which was their prerogative. And I wasn't really mad. I was confused, but I wasn't mad about it.

And I'm not mad now. So I'm not really sure, but I will say, looking back on it, the Ukraine war and the Vax, and to some extent, January 6th, on which I think I've been fundamentally vindicated. I don't know. I had out of step views on all three things. But two of them were absolutely, you know, were red lines, like you couldn't go there. And I'm not exactly sure why. I mean, I think for different reasons, the Vax, because obviously the pharma companies are the biggest advertiser in media.

They don't advertise to sell their products. People aren't buying mostly. They can't buy them directly. So why are they doing that? Well, they're doing that not to sell the product, but to influence the coverage of the product. And that's very effective. So I crossed that line in a big way because I thought the Vax was dangerous. And it turns out it was. And then on Ukraine, it's like every single person in the top 1% for income and influence,

like literally almost every single person heard this weird frequency, this dog whistle that commanded them to worship Zelensky. And I'm not exactly sure what that was. I looked at Zelensky, and I'm like, that guy's really bad. He wants to get my country involved in a nuclear war. And, you know, I don't know him, so I'm not attacking him personally, but anyone who wants my kids to risk death in a nuclear war is my enemy. It was just kind of that simple. So I was like, this guy's evil, to the extent that he's acting against my children's interests. And saying that was like,

oh my gosh, it was like a bomb going off. Like people couldn't even deal with it. And I'm not quite sure what that was, other than everybody in Aspen, Nantucket, Jackson, and Bethesda was like all in on this thing. And someday historians will discover why. I really don't know, but that fact is true. That's such an important point. And this is another thing too, I've always respected the most is, you know, to a certain extent, I rejected the system early on, but you came up in it and you also openly gave them the middle finger, even while growing up next to them, living next to them for years. I've watched it with Ukraine and I watch it now with Israel. You know, I watched in particular, there was a lot of consternation around some comments you made, I think by Ben Shapiro and other, where you were

like, well, I've never seen this level of care about Americans who are dying of fentanyl, which I think is a traditional nationalist message. And yet I've watched the entire kind of right-wing ecosystem get embroiled in fundamentally what is a third world conflict. Now we can say support, you know, not support, we can have criticisms, et cetera, of that. But what explains this like literal allegiance to a narrative on Ukraine, on Israel? Why is it that so many of these people don't seem to have the same level of care for actual American citizens? You know, I find it really distressing.

And in both of those conflicts, I approached it with a clean conscience because I just don't have strong feelings one way or the other. And I'm not hostile. I've never hated Ukraine. I don't have any feelings about Ukraine. And Russia, same thing. I've never been to either place. And I'm not invested emotionally. So I could just look at it from an American perspective. In the case of Israel and the Arab world, I've spent a fair amount of time in both and I like both. And I felt terrible for the people who were killed on October 7th.

I still do. So I didn't, I had no weird motive. I was just like thinking about it from an American perspective. Is this good for us or is it not? And I was just amazed by the intolerance and the willingness to immediately go to invective and character assassination. And it's like, I said, you know, first of all, if the people who live in Gaza who are being moved out are so evil and dangerous that they can't live in the region, why would you want them to move into my country? I mean those what are you saying? They can't live there because it's too scary to live next to them, but they can live next to me

So I at that point that's I felt very hostile about that because it showed such contempt for me and my family and my neighbors And my country it is my country. That's how I feel about it. Anyway, it's all of our country And so I was like disgusted by that and I I said, so, and I don't know why that's weird. Why wouldn't I be offended by that? And then it was immediately, you know, I'm a hater or a bigot or something like that. None of that registered with me because, you know, first of all, I've been attacked for so long, but attacks that aren't true, you know, if somebody said, you know, wow, you've gained some weight this summer, I'd be like, oh, it would hurt my feelings because it's true. But if someone's like, oh, you're a hater or you hate, you know, that's not true. So I don't really care.

But I did think it showed like the level of not just corruption, which I knew, but of like emotional instability and crazy. I mean, there are people, and I stopped reading any of it, but there are people on the right who have spent the last two months every single day focused on a conflict in a foreign country as our own country becomes dangerously unstable on the brink of financial collapse with tens of millions of people who shouldn't be here in the country.

We don't know their identities or the purpose of their being here. Like stuff that could destroy the country for real and make it impossible for my kids to live here. They've said nothing about that. And they're focused with laser intensity on foreign conflicts. And I'm like, at some point, I've got four kids. If I'm so caught up in the problems of my neighbor's children and completely ignoring my own children as they get addicted to drugs and kill themselves, you know, I'm not against helping my neighbor's children and completely ignoring my own children as they get addicted to drugs and kill themselves. You know, I'm not against helping my neighbor's kids, but clearly I don't love my kids.

I mean, that's the only logical conclusion. And they don't care about the country at all. And that's, you know, that's kind of their prerogative. But I do because I have no choice because I'm from here. My family's been here hundreds of years. I plan to stay here. Like, I'm shocked by how little they care about the country, and including the person you mentioned. And I can't imagine how someone like that could get an audience of people who care about America,

because he doesn't, obviously, right? Right. Well, I mean, Tucker, we've seen it too on free speech. I mean, people who've become multimillionaires, who've made entire careers, who've literally became famous on this very reason. I know you've spoken about this previously, but it's very important to our audience as well, is that, you know, standing up for free speech rights of people you disagree with is probably the most important exercise. And we've seen some of that come for American citizens on Palestine. How do you work through this too, when we're both under such immense pressure, even social pressure of like, how could you support this? You know, take maybe the context of the university presidents. We've got billionaires like Bill Ackman, who's there. I'm curious what you make of this. My assessment is they're upset

that they're not included as marginalized within the DEI regime. They claim to be against the DEI regime, but will you really keep going to make sure that, you know, all this racial hatred and all this other enshrined in elite institutions will be, you know, once you get a win, are you really going to keep going past that? What's your assessment of this general moment on Palestinian, you know, free speech hypocrisy and more? Well, we have free speech in this country, and it applies to people we disagree with by definition, period. I mean, it's the first right guaranteed that, of course, it precedes government. It's given to us by God, as the document says. But it's the first right enumerated in our founding documents.

So it's the foundation of the country. And so you can't give any ground on that, like none. And anyone who would give ground on that, and I would include the governor of Florida, who I think is a good governor and I like him personally, but signing a censorship bill is completely unacceptable. And I don't care what your motives are. I mean, this spring, there was some black nationalist group that was indicted by the Biden Justice Department for its views on Russia.

And my first thought was, you know, that's not acceptable. Now, how much do I have in common with the black nationalist group that I guess probably hates people who look like me? Actually, I probably 100% chance I'd like him if I had dinner with him. To be honest, I'm sure they're really good guys. I mean, I just sort of feel that. But whatever, it was irrelevant to me. You can't do that.

You can't try to put people in prison for expressing opinions the government doesn't like or the ruling class doesn't like or any opinion, any opinion. Any opinion must be protected or no opinions are protected. So anybody who seeks to limit my ability to say what I think, believe what I want, is treating me as a slave, as a slave. I mean, not as a human, is treating me as a slave. As a slave. I mean, not as a human being, and certainly not as a citizen. That's just really clear, and I don't know why people don't grasp this. But one sort of parenthetical, ironic note, to see people who spent a career mocking the

sensitive liberals on campus who want safe spaces, and they're feeling in danger because opinions are violence, say that exact same thing. People feel unsafe. What? You know, no, no. You know, words are not violence. You have to tolerate them in a free society or it's not a free society.

As to the question of DEI, the whole thing is Jim Crow. I mean, it's grotesque. The idea that certain people on the basis of immutable characteristics get certain privileges and other people are hurt on the basis of their immutable characteristics, that's totally incompatible with America. It's got to be a colorblind meritocracy or it can't keep going because it's a pluralistic

society. There's no majority of anything that has anything in common. So to keep the country together, it has to be based on merit. I mean, game this out. And also, by the way, we're going to get to violence really soon if this stuff continues. If you tell people that this group or that group is bad because they're in that group, because they look a certain way, or because their parents looked a certain way, if you tell them that over time, that group's

going to get hurt. And we don't need to guess about this. Well, actually, it happened in Europe not that long ago, but it's happened throughout history. So why are we tolerating this even for a second? And the reason, of course, is white guilt and self-hatred. Well, whatever. Get over it. It's not about white people. It's not about any specific group.

It's about the country. The country can't continue if we allow this to continue. So I think DEI is, you know, people say, well, you don't like it because you're white and it hurts you or whatever. Well, okay. But yeah, sure. But that's kind of not the point. I wouldn't like it was aimed at Filipinos. And I would be as, everybody's loud about it. Like, why would I like that? It's totally immoral. It's the thing we said we hated, Jim Crow and the Nuremberg laws. I mean, name it. It's like, it's the original sin of man, attacking people on the basis of things that they can't control. They were born with.

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For years, people have been like, you know, Tucker is a Trump sycophant. And I said, well, I've always said I thought you were misunderstood because you would criticize Trump for things that they, but only for things that they didn't want you to criticize him for. You would praise him on that, but you would criticize him for things like economic policy, for foreign policy, for things though that the liberal establishment actually agreed with him on. I know you talked recently about supporting Trump as a result of the Mar-a-Lago raid and more. I'm curious, you know, given that his biggest legislative accomplishment as president was a Paul Ryan-style Tax Cuts and Jobs Act bill. Yes. What's your confidence that things will change economically in the second term? Or do you have

any confidence at all? I mean, you're absolutely right. I was offended by that, not on ideological grounds, because I don't think that's what the country needed. And the fact that the carried interest loophole remained in that legislation enraged me then, and it enrages me thinking about it now. I mean, I don't think that we should have different tax rates for, you know, work or money. I mean, I think, you know, if you invest, you pay the same tax rate as someone who goes to work every day, period. And I don't understand why we have, you know, the richest people paying half the taxes. I mean, I think, you know, if you invest, you pay the same tax rate as someone who goes to work every day, period. And I don't understand why we have, you know, the richest people paying half the taxes. I think that's like actually insane and it'll make your country volatile

over time. It discourages work. How could it not? They don't want you to smoke cigarettes, so they tax cigarettes more than they tax, say, eggs. And that, you know, discourages people from smoking. Well, if you tax labor at twice the rate of capital, what are you discouraging? Labor. And I believe in labor. I believe in work. I think it confers dignity. I really mean that. It's not a talking point. It's true for me. If I had a billion dollars, I'd still go to work every day because I'm a man. And that's my identity. It's my purpose. I want to contribute something. So any society that discourages that is insane. And that bill continued to do that. So yeah, I'm mad about it and about a lot of other things. I mean, but on the other hand, you're like, it's a choice and you got to go with the better

one, I guess. In general, I kind of just want to stay out of politics because it's not appealing to me on any level. And also, honestly, I just really don't like the people, just personally. You know, Nikki Haley is like a disgusting person in person. And I just don't want to be around anyone like that ever in my life because I'm 54 and I just, life's too short and I have all these wonderful people I love around me. I want to be with them and my dogs. So however, the Raida Mar-a-Lago, the Colorado Supreme Court decision yesterday, those are kind of, you know, that's too far.

And so it's not about defending Trump, the man who I actually like personally. I think he's hilarious and interesting. But even if I hated him, I would still feel the same way, that you can't allow that. If you allow, say, someone to be punished without being convicted of a crime, the Colorado Supreme Court said yesterday that Trump has to be punished without being convicted of a crime. The Colorado Supreme Court said yesterday that Trump has to be punished for committing insurrection. Well, he's never been convicted of insurrection. So if you allow that, it's like, I think Sagar and Jetty is a wife beater. So we're going to put him in jail. Well, actually, he's never even been charged with wife beating, much less convicted. How can we put him in jail? Well, that's a precedent that can't stand. You can't

have that. And I would say, by the way, same for Joe Biden. If they tried to do it to Biden, I'd be like, you can't do that because you'll destroy this essential thing we have, which is a fair justice system. But nobody else seems to care, but I care, you know? Yeah, you certainly do. I'm curious, you know, you've always taken a lot of flack too, again, from the establishment here in Washington, mostly right, around your position on economics. You talked about the carried interest loophole. I'm curious what you think of unions and Republican policy towards unions, especially given that so many union voters are now backing Trump, not just for cultural reasons, but also for hope in a different type of economic message. How do you think Republicans should think about unions?

I mean, I have so many, of course, in a union have been my whole adult life. My father was in a union, you know, after SAG. And I, as a kid, worked in a union plant in a factory for three months. So I, you know, I've seen it from a bunch of different angles and I've worked in union shops and television. I mean, the idea of unions is very appealing to me. You need a counterbalance to corporate power. You know, there's the owner of the company and then the people he employs whose labor makes him rich, and they should have some power too. I completely agree with that 100%. Labor unions in the United States have like behaved so despicably, sold out their members so completely on the issue of immigration. I mean, labor unions were responsible historically for limits on immigration because more people

willing to work for less undermines the bargaining position of labor, obviously. I mean, that's not high math, okay? Right. And so for labor unions to be encouraging mass immigration, I'm trying not to use vulgarity here, but screws over their own members. And betraying people you're responsible for is the greatest possible sin. Do you know what I mean? That is the worst thing you can do as a human being, in my opinion. So I'm very mad about that. I like the idea of labor unions 100%. Show me one that actually

advocates on behalf of its members, and I'll send them money, because I love the idea of that. And labor has no power. Not just labor unions. We say labor. We all produce labor. And we don't have any power. All power is concentrated in finance. Not all power, but a wildly disproportionate percentage. And those who like, you know, if you're 23, you think, well, that's kind of how economics works. That's how the world works.

No, no, no. No, no, no. It wasn't always this way at all. Farmers had massive power. They feed the country and keep them from starving. They had the Grange movement of the late 19th, early 20th centuries. I live next to a Grange building, which is defunct because farmers have no power, of course. I mean, I could go on forever, but the point is the idea of unions is not only good, it's essential.

And the people who run them have really been disgraceful. And I would say that's true across the board. The military, it's like the military is, you know, some of the best people in the country serve in the military and they are led by the worst people. Right. I mean, the Republican Party, I like, you know, rural Republican voters, some of the best people I've ever met. The people of the RNC, some of the worst people. So you have this weird dynamic of, you know, the bulk of people being pretty decent, pretty commonsensical, pretty, you know, warm and tolerant, nice. And then their leaders being like utterly rapacious and deceptive, creepy. I mean, it's like bad. Tucker, how do you think Republicans should handle the abortion politics after Roe versus Wade, which has been pretty significant downward pressure on them at the ballot box?

How should they approach it? You know, I don't know. I'm the last person to give political—my brain doesn't work that way. And I, you know, I just—I'm not—I would be a terrible strategist, and I've been kind of a terrible strategist in my own life. Obviously, I keep getting fired, so look. You know, obviously, I'm not very good at that. I can tell my own feelings on it, which are super simple. If you can sit, I mean, there's no dispute that a child in the womb at eight months is a person, of course. And if you allow people to kill other people because they're inconvenient, then that's a profound statement. You know, you're not allowed to kill other people because they're inconvenient, then that's a profound statement.

You're not allowed to kill people except in self-defense, period. Otherwise, you are a monster and you're reserving the powers that no human being can have because we're not gods. And so the idea that the government would encourage people to kill other people is really scary. I feel that way about euthanasia. I feel that way about the death penalty a lot of the time. And I just think we're, and I'm not Catholic, just, just to be completely clear, this is not someone else's theology that I'm parroting. It's just very obvious. I am a Christian, but even if I weren't, and at times in my life when I haven't been, I had the same view. You don't want to encourage the casual killing of other people. That's like

terrifying. And by the way, it'll come back and get you. So, but the other thing I would say is like the fertility rate, I mean, at this point we're, you know, kind of below, I would say we're below replacement. I haven't seen the latest numbers, but we're clearly below replacement. And if you don't have children, the whole point of life is to have children, is to reproduce. And every other culture at every other period in recorded history has felt that way because it's self-evident. What's your purpose on Earth? Well, to continue, you know, to continue your line,

your genes or whatever, with your descendants. That's the most basic human desire. And we deny it's the most basic human desire. We do everything we can to thwart it. And you have to ask yourself, like, what is that? I mean, is the problem in Janet Yellen, who is a ghoul and a disgusting human being who got rich, you know, from the banks as she was supposed to be regulating them at the Fed. She said six months ago that the most

important piece of her economic policy is that you have more abortions. And it's like, really, if you think having more kids is the problem, and a lot of these people really do think that, I have to wonder about your motives a little bit. If you're encouraging me not to have kids, you don't like me. And this is the crazy thing about black, and I have a really good black friend

who I always say this to. It's like, if I say to you, you're great, just don't reproduce. We don't want more people like you. The abortion rate in black America is super, super high. There's a reason for that. Planned Parenthood's everywhere. They target that community. And I don't know why more people don't say, if you're targeting me or my children and

trying to convince us not to reproduce, then I don't think you really love me. You can tell me you love me, but if you're trying to get me to have an abortion, I think you may be lying. But nobody says this because it's framed in like my rights or whatever. Really bodily autonomy? You're going to give me that lecture after the COVID vax? My body, my choice? Where were you when they were forcing my children to get it? You know what I mean? My body, my choice? Where were you when they were forcing my children to get it? Do you know what I mean? My body, my choice. They don't believe that for a freaking second. They're liars.

But why do the rest of us not respond with like, hey, shut up about my body, my choice, you Vax creep? You know what I mean? I remember a lot of people who made that exact point and were absolutely shut down at the time. I know you're on a tight schedule. My last question here is we have shared passion for UFO transparency. And you made a comment very recently, which has gotten a lot of attention in the UFO world. That you've learned things that have made you afraid. And I've seen, there's been a lot of, I think, right-minded skepticism.

Not even just from people who are more establishment-minded. Others who are like, well, if the government is, quote-unquote, acknowledging UFOs, then that's how I know that it's not real. So you seem to be a believer. You've spoken with Dave Grush. I've met him as well. He seems like a very – he at least – at the very least, I don't think he's lying to me whenever I've spoken to him. So what gives you assurance that what you're hearing, what you have come to believe is not a government psyop, so to speak? Well, everything's a government psyop, including UFOs, but that doesn't mean that there aren't UFOs. And I think I know the comment you're referring to is on Clayton Morris's, an old friend of mine called Clayton Morris' podcast, a great guy,

really interested in this topic. And I said that there are things that I don't want to talk about, and I, as usual, didn't fully explain myself. If I had verifiable facts about this phenomenon, I would immediately put them on the air, because I'm committed to that completely, because my whole life is about that. So I should have said more clearly, I can't be certain.

This is just what I believe based on talking to an awful lot of people about this, some of whom I trust a lot, some of whom I trust sort of. I mean, you're trying to piece it together from lots of different places. But no, these are my views, okay? They can't be proven.

But I think they're informed views. The phenomenon is real. It's been recorded for thousands of years. We know that. There's something buzzing around us in the skies, but also under the oceans, we now know, and probably underground as well. So it's real.

The government's lied about it a million different ways, probably for a million different reasons, for at least 80 years. That's also confirmed. They're lying about it now. Who knows what their motives are? And they're also trying to keep a lot of this stuff from being disclosed.

That's true. Yes. So to those people, it's like, it's a PSYOP. Well, yeah, everything's a PSYOP. But I know for a dead certain fact, and it's provable, that say Mitch McConnell and Speaker Johnson and people who should, and a couple committee chairmen who should all know better,

are trying to prevent the UAP Disclosure Act of 2023 from taking effect in a meaningful way. So they are trying to hide it still. That's a fact. My own view is that these are not aliens. There's no evidence that they've come from somewhere else. We would probably know. We've got a lot of technology that's watching what comes in and out of the atmosphere, and there's no evidence of that. I think they've been here forever. This is my view. Again, it can't be proven, but I'm just telling you after a lot of conversations, I think it's likely that the US government has had contact with these, direct contact, and over a period of years, I find that really disturbing. And a bunch of other things that are highly distressing that I can't prove,

and so I'm not going to throw them out there, but I can, I'll tell you this, I've talked to a lot of people about this now because I've never been interested in UFOs until like five years ago, and I was like, wait, this is real, what is this, why aren't we talking about this? I'm just like coming at it from a totally idiotic, I don't know anything, curious position, which is my normal posture on everything. And so I've talked to a lot of people. And my view is that there, you know, this is my opinion, that there are things about this that are really disturbing. And while I hate any kind of government secrecy, and if I could prove any of this, I would say it immediately, consequences be damned. I do sort of understand why they don't want to let this stuff out. It's not about, oh, we've got fragments of one of these crafts at a Lockheed, you know,

facility in California, and we have biologics from the craft. You know, everyone knows that that's likely true. Well, it's certainly true that they have the, you know, pieces of this stuff. But I think it's likely that it's darker than that, and that the U.S. government is, I said the U.S. government, people in the U.S. government, not the U.S. government, but, you know, there are parts, it's a vast, it's the largest human organization in history. Parts of it, you know, have knowledge that is very, very disturbing. And I personally think, strongly think, that there's a spiritual component to this that I don't understand and will not pretend to understand. But I think it's very clear that there's a spiritual component to this that I don't understand and will not pretend to understand. But I think it's very clear that there's a spiritual component to this. That's one of the reasons the Vatican,

and again, I'm not Catholic, but has been involved in this for over 100 years, has an observatory, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, it's pretty obvious that these are not men from Mars. I think that was a psyop because I think the truth is a little bit wilder and has deeper implications just than that.

Giving us even more to think about. Tucker, I want to thank you for your time. Really appreciate it. I encourage everybody to go and sign up for your subscription program. We'll have a link in our description. And as I said at the beginning, I appreciate you. You gave me my start in this business.

I would not be sitting here without you, and I can't thank you enough. Well, dude, you beat me. I mean, it's like crazy what you've done, and I love it. So, congratulations. I appreciate it. All right. Great to see you. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy. But to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself

outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. Small but important ways.

From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success.

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