Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 12/8/25: Boat Strike Coverup, Tim Dillon Roasts Trump, Layoffs Surge, Somalis Wage Meme War

Episode Date: December 8, 2025

Krystal and Emily discuss Hegseth's boat strikes backlash, Tim Dillon roasts Trump on Epstein, layoffs surge, Somalis wage meme war on Trump.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late. He was the head of this gang. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it.

When Larry's killed, Gabe must untangle a dangerous past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the brothers Ortiz. the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of, you know, developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different.

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I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mail Room. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Every week, we're breaking down the world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility. We'll talk science without the jargon and get your real answers

to the stuff you actually wonder about. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here. Independent Media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put you. together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you at breaking points.com. Good morning,

everybody. Welcome to Breaking Point. Saugger's out six. So we have the lovely Emily with us. Great to have you, Emily. Thanks for having me. Sagger is quote sick. I don't know what he's doing. Maybe he was out last night. We didn't double check, but I doubt he was out last night. We should send somebody by the house to make sure that he's not, it's not a fraud. Yes, we need to verify. A Democrat hopes. Trust but verify. Democrat hoax. Like affordability. The Democrat con job. Yeah, that's what it is.

Exactly. Lots of interesting things in the show today. We've got new revelations about the boat bombings. We've got new numbers about layoffs, which are looking really not good. Mollies are waging a meme war against this administration and Israel catching a whole lot of strays in the mix. So, you know, we are all over that. Pipe bomb suspect is apparently a stop the steel guy. So we've got some updates for you there.

Hillary is doubling down on her blaming of social media. for Israel's reputation falling off. And Sidney's Sweeney is changing course. Now, you guys are lucky Emily is here because I probably would not have covered this one with Sager or with Ryan. But with you, for sure. But you know what?

It almost would have been more fun with just Sager and Ryan. We made them cover Sydney. It forced them to cover it. Yeah. That would not have gone well. I would have gone well, but not in the same way that we wanted to.

I pretty much know what Sager would say about it. He thinks my whole sense that and many other people sense that the not Gap, American Eagle jeans ad was eugenics adjacent. He thinks that's ridiculous. Ryan, I'm curious. Actually, now that we say it, I'm interested. You and I had like a debate about that. Was it August when that happened? Yeah. Okay, so Sager's on my side. I don't know. Ryan is I guess then the last. It's the swing boat. He's the swing boat. We'll see. We'll see the breaking point

Supreme Court. Yes, indeed. All right. Well, let's jump into the show. We had Tom Cotton out on the Sunday shows defending the double-tap strike on that initial. boat, with that initial boat bombing, let's go ahead and take a listen to a little bit of what he had to say. Did you see any evidence of them trying to use a radio in the video you saw? Well, I saw lots of evidence. I've been standing on the boat that had been capsized. That wasn't my question. Did you see any evidence? Trying to get it back up, trying to flip it over. Did you see any evidence of them trying to use a radio? No, I didn't, John. Let me ask you this specific question. Would it be legal for police

in Arkansas to kill suspected drug dealers on a boat in an overturned lake? Well, John, let me go back to the premise of your question. The Washington Post reported that Pete Heggseth had given an unlawful order of no quarter or no one left alive or kill them all. Pete Hegsef denied that last week and it didn't deny that there was a second strike. Mitch Bradley and Dan Kane both flatly denied that yesterday as well, which some of the Democrats who watched that video and got those. briefings confirmed. So that's what the Washington Post reported. That is a total and complete lie.

I just respectfully disagree with my Democratic friends here. I think the problem they have is not the second strike, it's with the first strike and every other strike on these boats. They think the entire operation is not well-founded. I just disagree with them. I think with the analogy I would draw is not Arkansas police officers dealing with American citizens. If those boats were loaded with bombs or missiles headed for the United States. I don't think anyone would dispute that we had every right and indeed a duty to intercept them. But those drugs detonate like a bomb all across Arkansas and all across America killing hundreds of our Kansans and hundreds of thousands of Americans. Our government has a duty to protect our communities from those drugs.

That's exactly what we're trying to do. Can I just take this in pieces? And we first answer my question, would it be legal for police in Arkansas to kill suspected drug dealers in an overturn boat in a lake in Arkansas. Just answer that and then I will address your question on the other thing. John, John, the premise of your question is not well-founded. Criminals in Arkansas are not foreign nationals who are affiliates of a foreign debt, foreign-care designated organization. The answer is no, it would not be legal. It's like saying like, hang on, Senator. The answer is no, it would not be legal to kill them. Let me ask a follow question. If they are terrorists, when did Congress pass the authorized use of force to attack them?

John, the reason why your question is not well-founded, it's like saying, would Barack Obama be okay droning an American citizen when he was present like he did to Anwar Alalaki? You are talking about the president protecting Americans, Arkansasans from drugs, and yet just this week, the president pardoned, the former president of Honduras, who trafficked more than 500 tons of cocaine into the United States. He was serving a 45-year sentence, Senator. How does that make America safer? Well, I haven't spoken to the president about that pardon.

There may be strategic reasons to pardon a former president of Honduras because of our relationship with Honduras and trying to move them in a more pro-American direction. I'll leave that open as a possibility. But Chris and I think you know, my general approach to crime is that we should lock him, we should convict them. And then we should lock them up. And once they're locked up, we should keep them locked up. So given that, do you oppose the pardon, given that you're saying you want to protect our Kansas? I'd have to know more about the circumstances. So some very interesting questions that were asked.

there. And just let me break down a few of these. So first of all, John Berman was asking Tom Cotton, did you see any evidence that this guy was trying to use a radio? And the reason that's relevant is one, we've gotten a number of shifting rationales for why the second strike in particular was legal and justified. Now, Tom Cotton is actually right when he says that their problem with it is the whole operation. My problem with it is the whole operation. The whole thing is illegal. But the nation has fixated on this second strike because it is so, it's like the textbook example of a war crime. So the reason the radio is relevant is because one of the justifications they had was, oh, he may have been calling in help from his cartel buddies. So that was

one of the things that was offered in some of this reporting. Well, Tom Cotton views that video and says, well, no, actually I didn't see any signs of them trying to use a radio and others who saw that video said the same thing as well. The question, too, about, well, would it be lawful for police officers to kill drug dealers on a boat in an Arkansas lake. We were actually talking about this while the clip was running. I think that that is an excellent question because what is the difference between we're just going to assassinate random people that we're not going to provide you any particular evidence of who they are in the Caribbean versus claiming those powers on our own soil?

One thing I've been saying that is very disturbing about the powers that they're claiming here and their claim that they are at war with these drug dealers is that there is no land. limiting principle that would keep you from taking those sorts of actions domestically. The other thing it gets asked about the authorization of the use of force, also a very good question. You're a United States Senator. If we're at war, doesn't that need to be declared? That is a power that's supposed to be vested with Congress. Of course, there has been no war declared.

And then the other question, lastly, from Kristen Welker, there was about Juan Orlando Hernandez, who we have covered here. That was the former Honduran president, who is actually what they're claiming Maduro was and was involved in shipping tons and tons of cocaine into the United States had been convicted, actually by Emil Beauvais, who was funny, which funny now, you know, big Trump guy. He was the one who prosecuted him, and he was let out of prison, which really undercuts this idea that, like, oh, we're doing everything we can to go after this drug dealers. No, at best, at best, you're murdering some random, incredibly low level, easily replaceable, desperate fishermen, and having zero impact on any sort of narcotics. trafficking. We don't even, they refuse to show their work as to how they know who is on these boats. Yes. Like time and again, we actually have no idea how they, how internally they're

justifying. They say they track them and it's all totally under control. But the reason I really loved the Berman question about when the authorized use of military force was passed is that, well, the rumblings, even though we're in the absence of like real clear explanations as to legally why they can do what they're doing, et cetera, they're probably going to end up relying on the post-9-11 A-U-MF as their designation, which has, by the way, been used in 22 countries already, and that is likely when all of these lawsuits start happening. We already see some of the legal challenges in motion. They will probably rely on the post-9-11 AUMF, which is why that was a great question from John Berman. And so Tom Cotton's point is telling that, you know,

Yes. He's saying people who have a problem with the double tap have a problem with the whole operation in general. Yep. That's correct. Well said, sir. Yes, you got it. Because, again, if we just zoom out, take a 30,000 foot view, I actually think, you know, people like soccer mean, maybe you and Ryan too, Crystal, but like we have a lot of sympathy for the idea that some of these like cartels, not in Venezuela, but I would say like Sinaloa or places that have been. mass amounts of fentanyl across our border, it's like, mm, that's what we should do something about it. I'm not saying militarily, but I'm just saying nobody likes the cartels. Everybody thinks the cartels have been trafficking mass amounts of fentanyl into the United States, and that that's a bad thing. What's different, of course, is then saying that's the justification for using the post-9-11 AMMF to take specific actions on cocaine trafficking from Venezuela in the Caribbean. and it almost preys on people's upset at what's happened with fentanyl. It's almost exploitive.

It is exploitive. That's absolutely right. And that's, if we take, we zoom out, take a 30,000 foot view. The idea is right now what Tom Cotton is saying. Do I think actually they can make the argument in court that this boat, you know, because I think our war powers are so broad and I think our law is so broad that I think they probably can make this argument that the boat was still afloat. That could be a hazard in the ocean that could.

you know, it could mean that someone comes rescue. Like, I think they can flesh out their argument in court. I might not agree with it. But if we zoom out to the 30,000 foot level here, the idea that we could kill those two guys because they were a threat to the United States is completely insane. That they were a military threat to the United States is insane. Yeah. It's insane.

Well, and let's put A3B up on the screen, actually, because we got some interesting details from Admiral Bradley, who was on Capitol Hill talking to lawmakers. And he admitted that these drug boats, our intelligence, did not conclude that if there were drugs on this boat, which, again, there's been no evidence provided of. But if we take them at their word, that there were drugs on this boat, they weren't even heading to the U.S. Rather, it showed the boat was traveling south toward another country in South America, which was first reported by CNN. Bradley told the lawmakers the drugs were eventually heading to Europe or Africa. So Tom Cotton there says, we should think about if this was bombs that were on a moment. vote that were headed to the U.S. and how you would feel about that. Okay, well, they're not even

headed to the, I mean, even if we take that example, which I think is not an equivalent example, but even if you take that example, they weren't even heading to the U.S. The other thing put a four up on the screen that was relevant from what Admiral Bradley had to say to lawmakers is now the new justification isn't, oh, they were radioing for help or, oh, the, you know, the debris from the wreck was going to be a waterway hazard. I don't think anyone was buying that too much. Put A4 up on the screen. Now he's claiming that all 11 people on this vessel

were on some list of military targets, that they knew every single person that was on the boat, that they were all on a list of military targets, and thus that makes it justified. I mean, I'm just calling bullshit, like calling bullshit on this. Because if they knew who these people were, think of how much this administration loves to trot out, like we arrested this bad guy who did this bad thing and here's his mugshot and he's locked up for

good or we deported him whatever if they actually knew who these people were and they were some big bad guys we would all they would have published their names it would all be out there their whole history it would have been put to the public rather this is just their latest scramble to try to cover up what is you know what is increasingly being accepted in a bipartisan and fashion as a clear war crime at best. In my opinion, the whole thing is just murder, just out and out murder. There's no war, so it can't be a war crime. But at best, it's a clear-cut war crime, like literally in the textbook when they give an example of the type of orders that service members should consider disobeying. This is the type of thing that they lay out as

such a clear-cut example that it would justify saying, you know what, I'm not doing this. I mean, I just, the only thing I disagree with is that, and I'm not an expert in the military law, I just think our laws are so broad that it protects people doing things that are obviously ridiculous, like saying you have to take these two guys out because they oppose a military threat to the United States. I feel like I've seen fascinating analyses from people who say, it's true, like you can legally justify it, and people who say there's no way it's legally justified, it's insane. I mean, I look at it, and I'm like, it's insane for, like, law aside, it's just insane because they're clinging to the side of a craft in the middle of the Caribbean.

They're not military targets. Like, it's just a crazy idea that are, like, how much money have we spent on the entire operation to say that this is something that's keeping the American people more safe? It's all just completely ridiculous. But, yeah, it gets extra hard to believe the story that they're military targets not do. I think maybe that they have some, like, giant broad list, and that's the language. I'm parsing Pete Heggs-S language. Like, maybe is there some list that says people who, it's not even names, but it's like

people who are doing X, Y, and Z from this port and that port, maybe. But at first it was, this happened so quickly. Now we know it was 45 minutes. Now there's a leak saying that it was, that they were on the list. I don't know. I mean, if they had a specific list like that, it's hard to imagine that they're not trying these people in court, which has not happened yet. They have not tried any of the survivors in court. They have repatriated the survivors, which is, again, very interesting because if they were

such serious threats to the United States, I'd like to see them tried in court. If they're actually going to be, if they are intentionally part of a state-backed effort in Venezuela to harm Americans with bioweapons or with, you know, narco-terrorism, let's do it. Let's try them. That sounds great. I would love to see that trial. But instead, they're just going back to different countries. Yeah, they're such violent, dangerous criminals that we're just going to let them go free. Not even criminals, terrorists. Right. That we're just going to let them go free and repatriate them to their home country.

There is some reporting. Which is, I guess, consistent with Juan Orlando Hernandez. We're just pardoning. Yeah, true. Let them all out. Let's put a five up on the screen here. This is some reporting from David Schuster who claims he has exclusive evidence that the U.S. Navy actually deleted video of a different boat strike. So the one that Emily is referring to, there were two instances that we know of where there were survivors.

The first boat strike where they decided just to murk the two survivors as well and kill them as well. And there was another one. And that's the one where they decided, okay, I guess we're going to just take these two guys and send them back to their home countries. Schuster is claiming he has sources that reveal that the Navy was actually ordered to delete the photos and videos from that second instance where there were. survivors as well. So attempt to cover up exactly what unfolded there. And lastly, I mentioned before lawmakers, Admiral Bradley was on the hill talking to lawmakers. Lawmakers were able to view the full video. So you'll recall they publicized, I think they post on Twitter, they were so proud of being able to bomb this boat. That got posted immediately. But of course, they did not

include the 40-minute wait as survivors struggle to, you know, flip over the boat and are waving, presumably for help desperately trying to keep their lives intact, did not publish that part of the video. Democrats are now calling for that additional video evidence to be released as well. Representative Jim Himes spoke out after he viewed it and said it was one of the most troubling scenes that he had ever witnessed. Let's take a listen to that. I'm told that the briefings just ended on the House side, and that Democrat Congressman Jim Himes, the ranking member of the House Intel Committee, came out, spoke to media and said they were shown the unedited video of that second strike. And he says, quote, what I saw in that room

is one of the most troubling scenes I've ever seen in my time in public service. So Democrats pushing to have that video released, I think it's possible because you do have bipartisan investigations announced in both the House and the Senate, you have, I think not a lot of love for Pete Heggsath. You can tell me, Emily, just because he's not one of them, his time at the Pentagon has been seen as very chaotic. He has not been, you know, really brought into the inner, inner circle and given the level of power that a Marco Rubio or Stephen Miller or Susie Wiles even has been, he's been, you know, pushed in some senses to the side in this administration allowed to do his little speeches and his little pull-up contest and whatever. That's

sort of track is. So it would not shock me if they decided to sort of sacrifice Pete over this issue or over other issues. It would not shock me if some enough Republicans on the committee only need one or two in order to vote along with the Democrats to release this footage as well. I definitely think there's a chance they'll release the footage because the Tom Cotton clips that we played earlier are really instructive. They don't believe they have anything to hide because they believe this is all legally justified. Fog of war, even though we now know it was 45 minutes. I think their...

Fog of war is ridiculous in the circumstance. I think they're totally happy to have the video come out. I'm sure it's not like their preference, but I don't think it's keeping them up at night because I think they feel like they have plenty of ways to justify it. And that's one of the problems with our system right now is you can find a million different ways to bend over backwards and do these legal gymnastics

to justify obviously ridiculous stuff. So I don't know if they're even so worried about that. Higgs-Seth's future seems to me this is becoming like a culture war is the wrong phrase. But if anything, this might be drawing certain Republicans even closer to Hagseth or even more defensive of Hagseth because a lot of the people who were initially really uncomfortable with Hegseth were more, quote, moderate Republicans who were didn't love what he had said about Ukraine and like were maybe a little bit more in a neo-conservative camp. to speak very roughly. And if anything, they're like, oh, hell yeah. We're just striking people in the Caribbean now because of raw power. Got to protect Texas.

Yeah. There was an interesting moment with Tom Cotton where he accidentally referred to Trump as President Bush, which was major. Freud didn't slip there, unfortunate slip there in terms of mixing up those two presidents at this particular moment. You know, one thing about the video footage is it's, one thing when you just see a boat and it blows up, right? You don't get the sense of like, oh, my God, these are human lives. Like, these are actual people. These are human beings that we are

just, you know, we are just deciding to take their lives. And we're claiming that their narco terrorists were claiming all these things. We're not being given any evidence of that. In fact, now there's a lawsuit from the family, one of the people that was murdered, who claims this was literally just a fisherman who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. So that's one thing, though, just to see the boat and all the boat blows up. Wow, look at us. We're so powerful. It's another thing when you see human being struggling for their lives and you watch them for 40 minutes.

And then that decision is taken to murder them. It turns it from a theoretical thing into a real human thing. I mean, this is what we've seen happen in Gaza, right? Not to equate the people there with these people, whatever. But when people were able to see in their feed the humanity of these individuals who have, you know, a whole world and a whole life and dreams and aspirations and saw that being snuffed down so casually in such a barbaric way. That is what, you know, that is what overcame all of the propaganda war that would push us to say we've got to support Israel no matter what. And so I do think it is a

very different thing when you actually see human beings and have to account for them as like real people who have families and lives that are just being casually snuffed out in this manner. I do think that that would have an impact in the public, just in the same way that, you know, we heard about the Epstein birthday book and the Trump drawing. It was another thing to see it, wasn't it? It had a different impact when you actually had that in the whole book and that landed a lot differently with the American people. It was much more charming when you saw the drawing, the scribblings. Yeah. Disgusting. So, yeah, there's some reports that the men on the boat were waving. And the question is, was that a sign of surrender was that to the was that to the U.S. aircraft? Was it a sign, as I think some people in Hikeseth camp, had said to their own people to like keep going, whatever? I think that's part of the

explanation is that maybe they were calling for backup or something. But this is to the point you were just making crystal. This was not active combat. To say that this was active combat, to say that these people were engaged in active terrorism because they were allegedly, they had cocaine on a boat, which, of course, lots of people have cocaine on boats in the Caribbean, and it's illegal. And they're going up and bringing it to what, where were they going Suriname? Like, somewhere, it's not the United States. Right. It's not fentanyl. Wasn't even intended ultimately to go to the United States. And the question, are they actually connected to a terrorist group, a terrorist group that could be covered under the AOMF?

I mean, it's all just the idea that these guys who are clinging to the, side of a boat. Maybe they may be part of their efforts to survive did involve trying to call for backup for the, maybe that's true. The idea that it's terror, that we just stopped terrorists is absurd. Yeah, completely. Being a parent is basically a juggling act. Dinner, hockey practice, homework, a last minute science project, and someone's always, always shouting for you from another room. So yeah, I'll take any shortcuts that actually works. And that's why I'm all all in on Hello Fresh. Fresh ingredients, super easy recipes and over 80 options every week so everyone eats. No one complains and I get to feel like I've got it all together, at least for

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Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players

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Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think she's a witch. And it freaks you out. He has X-ray vision.

How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow me. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking us. Two brothers, one devout household, two radically different paths. Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest-ranking law enforcement officers in Texas. 32 years, total law enforcement experience.

But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy. He was the head of this gang, and nobody was going to tell him what to do. You're going to push that line for the calls. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry is murdered, Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind and uncover secrets he never saw coming. My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about. Like, my mom started screaming my dad's name, and I just heard one gunshot.

The Brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tim Dillon had an interesting show. I just listened on the whole thing yesterday. I recommend you guys listen to it, too. It is both entertaining and also insightful, as he often is. And he has his own theories about why we are bombing these boats.

Let's go ahead and take a listen to that. And they're not talking about Epstein. And they're not talking about whatever the hell else is in these documents that may or may not come out, redacted or unredacted. And they're not talking as much about the economy. and they're not asking to have health care and they're not asking what Palantir is doing and they're not asking why five tech guys

in AI control half the American economy in San Francisco. They're not asking any of that. They're just watching a boat blow up in the middle of the ocean. When you have this clumsy, you know, kind of somewhat insane over the top deportations, people are looking at this and going, it's unserious, it's childish, it's cruel.

I think one of the problems with whatever the MAGA movement is evolved into is it's duped their hardcore followers so much that the only thing left now is performative cruelty. Performative cruelty, that's his take, both on the deportations and also on the drugboats. And I don't know if you watch the whole thing, but basically the bit is, like, they're not releasing the Epstein Fowhouse, the economy sucks, like all these things are going sideways.

They're not making good on any of these. other promises or aspirations people had for the administration. So what does the U.S. do? When the going gets tough, they have to show that they can murder some people. They can bomb some boats, the boomers will put it up on Fox News, the boomers will love it, people like us will talk about it, we'll debate it, they'll get the focus off these other things. And so when things started going sideways, they were like, we must bomb some boats, we must

kill some people just to show that the government even still exists and is capable of projecting power. basically his bit. It's, I mean, the theory, I just don't think is accurate because just from the, not that I think it's a crazy, a crazy belief, but just this has, this stuff has been percolating as what people have wanted to do with the second Trump administration since before the second Trump administration happened. And to agree with Tim, I mean, I've been criticized by some people for on our show

talking about how so much of this like what did you call them Crystal Meal Team 6? Yeah. Is that a Kyle? Is someone? No, that's an internet

came from Twitter. Yeah. Some of it like I call these guys LARPERS and people are like no, no, it's not that just minimizes

what they're actually doing. It's like, no, it's, I think it makes it 10 times worse that there's something performative. There's anything

that feels attractive in performing the like quote cruelty yeah um which i don't necessarily make the cruelty less cruel but the purpose of it is a performance and i think that just makes it so pathetic um and so that's where the theater of it because so much of it is theater if you talk to like hardcore immigration hawks actually a lot of them are pissed because they don't think deportations are happening at a fast enough rate and they're like it's all putting on the show it's a lot of theater and so again i'm not i don't think i'm that camp. I don't know what they could possibly do to, like, increase deportations other

than hiring more asylum judges at this point. But there's nothing sexy about hiring more asylum judges. Like, you can't, you can't strap on, like, all of your Kevlar and bring influencers along to hire asylum judges. Instead, they're actually firing a lot of immigration judges who they don't think are going to be sufficiently sort of, like, tow the, you know, anti-immigrant line. But yeah, I mean, that would lead to an actually more functional system. Yeah. Because a big part of the problem with all of this is that you do have such a massive backlog

in the asylum system that de facto people end up here for years while those claims are being adjudicated. And so, you know, that is, you know, one of the big major. And everybody knows this. Like, this is not a secret. Left, right, son. Everybody knows this. But that would actually, like, deal with the problem, make the system more functional.

And it would not create a, you know, titillating display of sadism that they are substituting in for actually delivering on any of people's material concerns and needs. Well, Christyneau herself, I think, is a good example if they're like a good embodiment. Oh my God, yes. But like, because like Trump, we remember back in 2016, he picks Mike Pence because the reports say Pence had a, like the movie star cinematic look of a vice president, that part of the reason that Trump said he thought he was, like, out of central casting. I think that's the quote that some reports indicated was part of his thinking.

And Christy Gnome, of course, is somebody who Trump wanted to put this, like, tough, badass, female. She wasn't chosen because of her substantive homeland security expertise. Yeah. That's not why Christy, that's not been Christy Nome's career. It's not why she was chosen. He chose her for public relations. He likes the costume changes and the, you know, play acting and presumably the hundreds and millions of dollars that were spent in ads basically to bolster her and show her like riding around on a horse or whatever. 100%, yes. And, you know, obviously some of that stuff, like public relations is not unimportant, but it's just another good example of whether you agree with the substance or you disagree with the substance, the administration spends a lot more time away from the substance. And I think that's extra, I think that really does irritate people, Tim Dillerner, otherwise, when they start disagreeing with the substance and the politics of that become very, very dangerous when it looks like you're pouring all of your resources into theater instead of

substance. Did you see the reports that Kristy Noem might be on the rocks in the administration? Do you think that that is accurate? I don't think so. It wouldn't surprise me if it happened, but I haven't heard anything myself like that. It wouldn't surprise me, though, because there are people that are really dissatisfied with the way things are, like on the right who are dissatisfied with the way things are being run, not necessarily just because they think more people should be deported, but just because they think they see everything is really unnecessary. really chaotic and messy. And she's graded on people. Yeah, she's graded on people. I think Corey Lindowski's graded on people. So it wouldn't shock me. Gotcha. Yeah. The central casting thing is

why I took some, I thought that the reports that Cash Patel might be on his way out, why I took those seriously, because he is not out of central casting. He is out of central casting for the, like, bumbling idiot bureaucrat, FBI director. He is out of central casting for that. but not for the like, you know, whatever projection of strength that Trump would want in that role, I guess. Maybe we should do a pool for a pool for premium subscribers of who's the first to go because... Hegsa, Noem, Cash Vettel, Dan Bongino. If I had to guess from the cabinet, if I had to, I would say cash. Really?

I would say he'll be the first. But I don't know, he's obviously, we're going to talk about this later in the show, but he's obviously trying to endear himself to the president pretty hard right now. I feel like the more liberal media outlets report on cash being on the ounce, the more, the safer he is. The more time he gets. That's totally true. I think it's totally true of Christy Knoem as well. Really?

Yeah, it's just going to make everybody dig in it. Who had the report on? Was that another NBC report? I thought that was NBC. I'm looking it up right now. The cash report was actually MS now, which are now two distinct things. They actually did pull some real reporters over with them. Oh, the bulwark, even more live. than NBC.

So, okay, well, we will see. But, I mean, the other thing that's interesting to note of Tim Dillon is obviously like he was supportive of Trump and now he is definitely not. So that's another interesting thing to note and I think we'll tie into the Sidney-Sweeney Block as well. I know that's a unique comparison to make perhaps. But, I mean, I think emblematic of a vibe shift and just a general recognition that like whatever hopeful thing you thought this administration was going to be, there's almost

no one who is like, yes, this is completely. completely going the way that I wanted it to go. Even if you are, you know, a hard right, like immigration hawk and you actually wanted to see millions of immigrants deport or whatever, like when I listen to Nick Fuentes talk about how he's disappointed that there aren't millions of people being mass deported right now. So even from that perspective, I guess, it's a disappointment. It's such a, it's all such a mess. Yeah. It's been, there's been a lot of like testing of policy, legal grounds, but there's also been a lot of testing of what kind of policy constitutes a conservative immigration policy. And not a lot of consensus, but also not a lot of backlash from the right so

far. Yeah. That could change. Well, and I think Tim Dillon, the Sagar has been making this point. I think you've been making this point, too, from the, like, I guess, right-wing immigration restrictionist perspective, not that Tim Dillon is in the same place as like where Sager is. Right. But he's like, if people have the choice between this like performative cruelty and all right we're just going to like not do this they're going to be like yeah we're we're not going in that direction this is horrible so like seeing these like kids pepper sprayed ripped apart from their parents and the mass thugs in the street just like randomly assaulting people or even shooting them it really is very strongly discrediting the whole anti-immigrant project and especially when

that is being substituted in place of actually addressing people's genuine concerns and with the president out there building his ballroom and calling affordability a quote-unquote con job. Yeah. Yep. And like bringing helicopters to Chicago, I mean, it's all just, again, I think the danger that they run into is, of course, some people disagree with their immigration policy. Some people are going to want it to go even further. But a lot of people are also going to look at it and say, what are you actually doing? Like, are you just wasting everyone's money? And making people mad and, like, causing all of these legal problems for yourself, for the country.

Like, are you making the situation worse? And I think those three buckets, that one is the one where you could see independent swing types be. But when you lose that, you're going to make it hard for Republicans campaigning in the midterms to defend, you know, a helicopter in Chicago or whatever it is. So that's where I think it gets difficult for them. It's 5.23 p.m. One of your kids is asking for a snack. Another is building a fort out of your clean laundry. And you're staring at a half-empty fridge and thinking,

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And I think it's about the economy. We have some new numbers with regard to layoffs that are looking really grim. Charger's Secretary Scott Bessent was sent out under the Sunday shows and was once again touting his bona fides as, a soybean farmer. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that. I'm involved in the agriculture industry. I run a soybean farm and I can tell you. You own one. You invest in it. Sorry? You own or invest. And people in my family go out and work on it. If everything's fine, then why do farmers need a bridge payment from the agricultural department? Sorry? Why would farmers need a bridge payment from the agriculture department then? Because these prices haven't come in

because the Chinese actually used our soybean farmers as pawns in the trade negotiations. And we are going to create this bridge because, again, agriculture is all about the future. You've got to start financing for planning next year. They'll win things will be very good. So he's getting pressed there on the soybean aspect. You know, this is a major issue in a lot of farm states. I don't know if you guys have seen some of the polling out of Iowa, but the governor's race there is competitive. There's some hopefulness around the Senate race there as well. And a large part of that is dissatisfaction with the trade policy and the way that it has hurt soybean farmers in particular. And I mean, I don't know why he does this bit, Emily, of insisting that he's

like super in touch with the average soybean farmer out there. But apparently he's committed to it. Well, he was committed to it, except actually later in the thing with Margaret Brennan, he said, I actually just divested it this week, referring to this, quote, soybean farm, which is a $25 million operation. It's hilarious to refer to that as a farm, which is so funny. Yeah. But he said, I actually just divested it this week as part of my ethics agreement. So I'm, quote, out of that business, which is right after he said, I run a soybean farm.

Well, actually, I mean, I did divest that, which is I'm sure how soybean farmers describe selling their farms is divesting from their farm. Now, just announced literally as we were, like, this is as of 10 minutes ago. We have a report from the Law Street Journal that Trump is unveiling a 12, billion bailout for farmers. So that echoes what happened in the first Trump administration. But obviously, another suggestion, yeah, this is a $12 million aid package to, as the journal puts it, help the agriculture sector, quote, grapple with the fallout from President Trump's far reaching tariffs. So a sign, obviously, I mean, that is not surprising. We saw it earlier, but a sign that the squeeze is really starting to sink in. That was different. You know,

a couple weeks after Liberation Day, quote, Liberation Day, everyone was like, whoa, you know, what's going to happen? Well, now it's almost the end of the year and they're unveiling their aid package. So it tells you what the arc of the, I guess, last, well, how many months has that been? The last, what, eight months? Yeah. Hardy eight months. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and China, you know, once we struck this trade deal with China, the idea was China was going to start buying the soybeans again, and that hasn't come through, which is not even close. Yeah, not even close. And, you know, from the farmers that I've heard interviewed, you know, I'm sure the bailout will help, but they don't want a bailout. They want to have a sustainable market that they can

sell into, which, you know, whole other conversation about why we are so dependent on China for sales of soybeans from, you know, from our farmers. But we'll put that aside for now. Scott Bessent was also asked about President Trump saying that affordability is a quote-unquote con job. Let's go ahead and take a listen to how he defended that. When we hear from, for example, the president, when he says that affordability is a con job by Democrats, that seems to just not be resonating with consumers that have been pulled by CBS. 60% of Americans polled by this network told us President Trump makes prices and inflation sound better than they really are. And his approval rating on the economy is now down to 36% in our latest poll.

On inflation, approval is even lower, 32%. Don't you need to show that you feel the pain? Well, Margaret, I think the president's frustrated by the media coverage of what's going on. This is the polling of average Americans. Yeah, but I think the average Americans are hearing a lot of it from media coverage. What we're not going to do is say that Americans don't know what they're feeling. We've been working on it every day. The American people don't know how good they have it.

You think there is an affordability problem? Sorry? You do believe that's a poor ability problem? Oh, I think the Biden administration created a terrible. No, but now, we're nearly 12 months in. You said the president would own the economy at this point. So two things there. First of all, he's saying, oh, the media coverage is driving people to feel like the economy's not great.

He has that line in there. Americans don't know how good they have. Good luck selling that one, buddy. And then the other piece that people just aren't buying at this point is that this is all still Biden's fault. You know, even Republicans when you ask them, like whose fault it is. They will put more blame at Biden's feet. But come on, you all have been in office almost a year now. You made all these grand promises. And I think critically, you know, Trump has had his hands all over this economy. A lot of promises were made about the how glorious

the tariffs would be and what it would mean for the economy, et cetera. And so here as we're heading into the holiday season and you have this, you know, a sense of betrayal, distrust, malaise at best with this administration, still trying to point the finger at the other guy is just not going to it. No, I saw a really interesting proposal from Chris Jacobs writing in the federal, so obviously from the right, which was to help actually ease some of the backlash to tariffs and the general economy. Could the Trump administration ease tariffs? Actually, this is pretty smart on things like coffee, bananas, food stuffs that like literally cannot be grown at scale in the United States going into 2026. That I could see happening. I thought they were.

were doing that. They might. I mean, I haven't seen anything that as like a concerted effort, but because still what they're doing and what could be very difficult about that is they're still doing these carve out deals where it's based on their conversations and meetings, the push a poll, not necessarily. We brought a gold bar this week. Yeah, right. There's that too. But not necessarily like some grand strategy about what's being grown here, food wise, what's being grown here, what's being sold elsewhere and that sort of thing. So I, we could see something like that happen. And the reason we get politically, it's obviously a disaster. And they know, I mean, people, when people see high prices at the grocery store, they don't see things coming

down, whether or not it's the president's fault. They're going to blame the party in power. And Republicans right now have the House, the Senate, and the presidency. So they're sure is hell going to blame Republicans this time around. I think, though, the bigger problem for the administration is housing and health care, because those are like the two biggest parts of people's budgets. There's also child care, which is insane in certain states. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, like they have not really done much on any of that, let alone messaging on any of that.

Trump obviously knows that housing is a problem for him because he was saying that Jay Powell was essentially, like, creating an emergency for American families with the interest rate. So, I don't know. Like, those are the big ones, and there's nothing that you can really tariff with your, if his tariff power even continues to exist as he's used it,

You can't just wave a magic wand on those. Yeah. There's also reporting from the Wall Street Journal about the fact that Trump just doesn't really, like he actually thinks that affordability is a quote-unquote con job. He thinks that the economy is doing great, you know, the metrics he's looking at, the stock market. He thinks that people should be satisfied with this. And there's a sort of like whole of administration effort to get him to care about affordability and take it seriously and refocus some of his dwindling.

brain share, mind share from the ballroom expansion to affordability and actually like get in the game with that, that there's like a concerted effort being made and, you know, they're struggling to get him to really sort of focus in on what Americans routinely say is their biggest concern. You mentioned health care. I think you're absolutely right. I mean, this is one thing you can say about the Democrats' shutdown fight is it really did put the spotlight on health care. It really did help to educate people about, okay, these premiums are going up. And who is to blame for that? I mean, there are a lot of people to blame.

But one of the immediate factors is the imminent expiration of these ACA subsidies that had helped keep things more reasonable, especially for middle class families. One Republican who's sort of like considered a moderate in a swing district, Representative Fitzpatrick, was speaking out against Republicans in general and their lack of any sort of a health care plan. This is B6. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that. Well, I say that if you don't have a better plan, then get on board with ours, but doing nothing is not an option, right? I mean, I've heard so many people on the Republican Conference rail on the Affordable Care Act, rail on Obamacare, rail on the premium tax credits.

And if you want to criticize something, that's okay, as long as you have a better alternative. They have never offered a better alternative. We went down this health care path in my freshman term. I voted against the repeal of the ACA. I thought the replacement was insufficient. It was hastily put together, not well thought out. And here we are, you know, what, eight years later. And they still have not been able to put together an articulable plan.

So it's sounding a little like Marjorie Taylor Green there. Congressman Allen Cumming. Yeah, well, that's actually been the, because Marjorie Taylor Green was seen as, you know, obviously hardcore MAGA. I think that's a fair characterization of her. Brian Fitzpatrick is not hardcore MAGA. And so that's where, you know, basically you still have the kind of Chamber of Commerce, style Republicans who are all about, just, what's the best way to put it? I mean, I don't even know, like, all about trickle-down economics is probably the best way to put

it, who still aren't really paying attention to this, don't really see it as the five-alarm fired that it is unless they can talk about repealing Obamacare. When it comes to replacing Obamacare, there's literally no consensus point on that. And that's where I think because you have the Fitzpatrick's and the MTGs, So MTG is not out of Congress until the new year, so keep that in mind for when it comes down to voting, these tax credit, not these health care credits expire at the end of the year. So they're going to need a vote on that before the end of the year if they don't want them to expire heading into the midterm cycle with huge premium spikes that are about to come everyone's way. So they need to fast. I mean, it is December 8th.

They need to come up with something on this like yesterday. And remember when a few weeks ago Trump was like, oh, we've got a health care. plan, we're going to announce it. And then it was leaked what the details were. And they hadn't run it by anyone in Congress, apparently. And then there was a big backlash to what the proposal was, which basically involved extending the Obamacare subsidies for two years and then some other little tweaks. And there were a bunch of Republicans who were like, ah, we don't like this. What are you doing? And then that gets scrapped. And we haven't heard anything else about a health care plan moving forward. And, you know, I mean, for Fitzpatrick and also for Marjorie Taylor Green,

and they complain about like the GOP doesn't have a health care plan, but it's not like you are a member of Congress. But you could have an idea of your own. You could offer something. But the problem has always been that because Obamacare was basically the Republican proposal, they have never figured out, you know, that was borrowed from the Romney Care in Massachusetts, which came from like Heritage Foundation ideas. And so they've never, really figured out what their proposal would be. And so they've just tried to, either they would run on like repeal and replace, being very vague about what the replace would entail or just railed against Obamacare in terms of coming up with an affirmative solution. That has always been a real

weak point for them. And it is interesting on the Democratic side, too, because Kamala Harris and Joe Biden also didn't, weren't that interested in talking about health care. You know, that was really gift to Republicans in a lot of ways because it is a very weak issue for them. Joe Biden originally ran on a public option. Then, of course, that got scrapped. They didn't even try to do anything with that during the campaign. Kamal Harris nominally in favor of a public option, again, wasn't a major debate point during the campaign. Trump famously said he had concepts of a plan. The health care debate is also becoming much hotter and more central in Democratic Party primaries. And you have a lot more Democrats who are now getting on board.

with Medicare for all because they see they see the reality of the system as it is. You just had Chris Van Hollen come out and do a video saying, this is where this is where we're at. We've got to support Medicare for all. But they see where the base of the party is, you know, is headed right now as well and what a pain point this is. So I do think that this is going to become a more central issue, take more of a central role in our politics the way that it was in 2016 and the way that it did in the 2020 primaries as well. There's a very obvious solution on the table for them. But the problem is, to your point, again, there is no consensus policy. The obvious solution here is that you easily pass an extension of the credits.

Just do it, extend the credits. You can do it a year. You can do it two years. And then say, we're going to do this, but we will have a health care bill on the floor of the House for a vote by March. Right. But they don't want to do that, of course, because they don't actually have anything. Now, morally and politically, it is foolish not to spend while you have the House in the Senate, your political, and the presidency, your political capital over the next year coming up with a Republican health care plan over the next couple of months. I mean, it's so urgent. But if you're a member of Congress or if you're somebody lobbying members of Congress on behalf of these insurance companies, you don't feel this in your, even though, I mean,

it hits people across every income spectrum really hard. But you just don't feel like the average American family feels it. So you're disconnected from the degree to which it's a emergency. Yeah. Yeah. At the same time, let's put B3 up on the screen. We're getting more and more numbers about accelerating layoffs and just what the picture looks like. So this is Frank Luntz here, says this year has had the highest layoff since 2020, of course, which was COVID. It's an extraordinary situation. If you take away 2020, it's the highest number of job cuts since 2009. So, you know, really a lot of layoffs. And you could put B4 up on the screen. This is a partial list of some of the the large companies that have announced last the U.S. government, 307,000 employees.

Sometimes that gets left off, but that is very significant part of our economy and what's going on. UPS, 48,000 employees. And right now, as we go into the holiday season, that is crazy. Amazon, up to 30,000 employees, also crazy. Intel, 24K, Nestle, 16, Verizon 15, Accenture 11, Ford 11, Nova Nordisk, 9,000, Microsoft 7, PWC, 5600, Salesforce, 4,000, IBM, 2700. American Airlines, 2,700, Paramount, 2,000, target, 1,800, GM, 1,500, applied materials, 400, Kroger, 1,000, meta, 600.

And then this is the CoBAC letter says, where will all these people go, which is a very good question, then put B5 up on the screen as well. We also have an accelerating number of bankruptcies, 717 U.S. large companies, this is from that same account, by the way, have gone bankrupt year to date. That's the most in 15 years. This is now higher than every full year total since 2010. And again, that's not even through the end of the year. This also marks the third consecutive annual increase, a 93% jump since 2022. In November alone, 62 large firms filed for bankruptcy after 68 and 66 in October and September. U.S. bankruptcies this year are now running plus 30% above the annual average

for 2011 to 2024. Corporate bankruptcies are surging. of the AI trade. And we covered last week the ADP payroll numbers that showed job loss. And there, so this is focused on large firms filing for bankruptcy. The job loss was coming overwhelmingly from small businesses who have really struggled to be able to navigate the political landscape and the tariff landscape, I think, in particular. Because if you're a large firm, okay, Trump's, you know, the tariffs are on, they're off, et cetera. We've got our stockpies. We're able to plan in advance. We have the cash to be able to ride this out.

It's going to be okay. If you're a small business, you're kind of doing the equivalent of living pay to paycheck to paycheck. Like you don't have this massive cash reserve where you can just ride things down. You also don't have, you know, like a million dollars to throw around to go to a Mar-a-Lago dinner and ask the president for whatever favor you need for your business to be able to make it. So I think that's a big part of the reason why so many small businesses are shuddering right now. And it's also a continuation of a trend of, you know, massive corporate consolidation in America that's been ongoing for decades at this point. Yeah. And I mean, I'm a tariff person. I'm looking at this White House rundown right now of new investments in the U.S. since Liberation Day.

And there's a lot of really good stuff. But that's not what these ADP numbers. Obviously, the ADP numbers are net. So job losses. That's it. Like when you're when the economy is losing X jobs a month and you have right now. tariffs, so basically the big picture is you have the tariffs and the AI revolution happening at the same time. And we will look back on this period in 10 years as I think similar to what we will end up or what we already end up looking back with like the Clinton and Bush administration trade opening up, NAFTA, WTO, like that, I think we're actually going to start looking back at this within 10 years as a really similar time period. And David Obie, a Democrat who represented this district in northern Wisconsin, very rural district for a long time,

he looked back after NAFTA and said he regretted voting for it because he was promised all of this job training and all of these efforts to augment the job losses. And it never happened. And it just never materialized and it never worked. And there's a clear lesson from that, which is when you have a revolution happening like artificial intelligence, that's already, I mean, we're projected going into next year to have the highest level

of college graduate unemployment. Like, it is going to be a bloodbath, especially in entry-level jobs. What are all of those people going to do? Yeah. Truly. I mean, fentanyl deaths, I was just looking at this last night, are still way higher than they were a long time. I mean, it's fentanyl, so it's relatively, like, new phenomenon, but they're still way

higher than they were in the early days of the opioid epidemic. So you have all of these things happening at the same time, and the Trump administration was supposed to, is what Donald Trump promised, of course, was, and people were, I think, correctly skeptical of it, but what he promised was something that appealed to the hopes of folks who were looking at this and saying, this is a generational scrambling of the world around me after the generational scrambling that, you know, my parents went through and that my town went through.

So it's way bigger than I think people realize. Yeah, no, I absolutely think that's correct. And I think people were willing to trade, like, it was not a secret to anyone. that he has these, like, authoritarian instincts. But they were sort of willing to, okay, well, we'll take some of that because it's an extraordinary time. And, you know, we trust that you're going to be able to kind of strong man, get things in order, and the trains will run on time.

And instead, you've just gotten the, like, performative cruelty and then mass layoffs. And then, you know, to me, the central theme, like the central thrust of this administration is just giving everything over to the tech oligarchs and saying, okay, off to the races with AI, We're going to grease the skids for you, deregulate as much as possible so you can win this AI race and hope and like we're going to hope and pray that that just like magically fixes everything. And in the process, they're promising to lay off literally everyone and completely disrupt the entire, I mean, completely destroy the existing social contract with little to no thought about what may come after that. Yeah, I mean, we were talking before we went to air this morning. I always checked the morning newsletters to see who sponsors them because I find it very amusing and depressing. And this morning, the free press and Politico's playbook were both sponsored by META.

And I went and clicked through the META ad to see what META was bragging about because in both ads it was, quote, meta is investing $600 billion in American infrastructure and jobs. So we went and clicked through. They had a list of all the places around the country where they're doing this. Every single thing I clicked on said, data center, data center, data center, data center. And that is so harrowing because a lot of these places, I mean, we have hollowed out factory towns all over the country and places that are still struggling from NAFTA and China and all of that. And you're just going to put up data centers that employ way fewer people and convince these communities to give you big tax breaks. And then if the bubble bursts, holy shit.

I mean, think about that. If an AI bubble bursts and all of these communities have given tax breaks to these big companies to meta, to open AI, all around the country. And they're already not employing all of the people, taking up all of this land with data centers. Think about that. It's horrifying. Yeah. And the bubble bursting might be the best possible end of the horrible ends. Yeah, that's right.

Then it may be even worse in terms of the impact on society. It's going to be UBI. Yeah, I mean, honestly, like, 20 years, UBI. That's like, it's... If we're lucky, if they don't just decide we're all disposable and good luck. And I was going to say not even like a, not even a humane effort at UBI. It's just going to be shut up and let us bulldoze, culture, tech, everything. Yeah, what's the smallest amount we can get away with giving you so that you don't like literally murder us in our beds?

That's what they're, that's the point they're going to be aiming for there. They've seen the purge. Yes. Being a parent is basically a juggling act. Dinner, hockey practice, homework, a last-minute science project, and someone's always, always shouting for you from another room. So yeah, I'll take any shortcuts that actually works. And that's why I'm all in on Hello Fresh.

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which means no more backup mac and cheese. Try HelloFresh today and get 50% off the first box with free shipping. Go to HelloFresh.ca and use promo code Rescue 50. That's Hellofresh.ca promo code Rescue 50. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that?

Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you? From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players comes Crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoval, comedian. as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws. Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime.

Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think, she's a witch. And it freaks you out. He has X-ray vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow him.

He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking us. Two brothers, one devout household, two radically different paths. Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest-ranking law enforcement officers in Texas. 32 years, total law enforcement experience. But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy. He was the head of this gang, and nobody was going to tell him what to do.

You're going to push that line for the calls. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry is murdered, Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind and uncover secrets he never saw coming. My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about. Like, my mom started screaming my dad's name, and I just heard one gunshot. The brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story. about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating

way. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go ahead and get to what is going on with the Somalis in Minnesota, and I guess globally, I don't know, I feel like this is a global effort. So Trump, after calling Somalis garbage, His administration has surged ICE agents into Minnesota, Minneapolis. Specifically, Tom Homan was questioned on this new operation. Let's take a listen to that. That Somali community in Minnesota is about 80,000 people.

The vast majority are U.S. citizens or legal residents. So what is the reason for sending ice there? Well, look, we also know there's a large illegal Somali community. There's illegal alien community, a large illegal alien community there. You know, if you're a U.S. citizen, you know, you have nothing to fear. The president said very clearly this week that he doesn't want Somali immigrants in America. He called them garbage. Is that the real reason this operation is happening in the Somali community?

No, I think President Trump's referring to public safety threats to national security threat from Somali and every other country. Well, he didn't say that. He said the whole, the whole, he talked about the whole community. Well, look, I know that I'm not aware what the President Trump was think when he said that. But I agree to President Trump. So, Emily, it's, I think it's worth people thinking for a moment, too, about why we do have such a significant Somali community. And, you know, they ended up in Minnesota in particular about why we had these successive waves of Somalis who were brought in the vast majority of whom, by the way, are a U.S. citizens. And so they shouldn't be subject to these deportation efforts, even though we know that ICE has, you know, discriminated by color and by their ethnic background in the past.

Some numbers on that quickly. So not a citizen as of 2023, 9.5%. Yeah. U.S. born, 38.8%. Naturalized citizen, 45.4%. So it's about one in every 10 is not a citizen. Yeah. So the biggest reason why we have significant Somali population here is you had a civil war in Somalia.

It was brutal. And you may ask yourself, did the U.S. play any role in that Civil War? And the answer, of course, would be yes. And the question is, of course, rhetorical. I mean, we, you know, we use Somalia, basically as a pawn and a plaything during the Cold War, flooded the zone with all kinds of U.S. weapons, also forced this, like, IMF World Bank adjustment, like austerity onto them, which stripped their own domestic capacity to feed themselves and, you know, cause these austerity conditions. we were very important in terms of creating the conditions for the civil war and the fallout and the chaos that made it necessary for people to flee Somalia for other places.

So that is, I think, always important, especially as we're contemplating this regime change effort in Venezuela. Like for the vast majority, you and Saga are pretty much on an island, correct me if I'm wrong, Emily, in opposing the regime change effort in Venezuela. A lot of the America firsters, even people who had a problem with war with Iran are like, yeah, yeah, sure, Venezuela. Medora's a bad guy. Let's go for it. Why the hell thought?

And I don't want to hear a fucking word from these people when there is a failed state and another refugee crisis. Like, we are causing those problems. And so, you know, if you want to have fewer migrants, and I think we all should actually want people to have a place where they can live and not have to flee war and famine and devastation, then maybe we should stop destroying and using. these countries as pawns and play things and destroying so many other places around the world. Just a thought. In any case, the Somali community has responded in, I think, the most glorious way possible. Like, the most glorious way possible. Mack was saying we need to make all of them citizens just as a reward for their, their meming efforts. So in response to these brazen attacks from Trump calling them garbage and now the ice incursion into Minneapolis and all of this,

They have been, I guess, playing with memes that take the language that Israelis use to justify their claim of the land of Israel and also claim of Palestine, taking that language and appropriating it themselves and saying like Minnesota was promised to us 3,000 years ago and we're the real founding farmers and all of this. It's incredible, you know, sort of like... You just said founding farmers. Did I really? Amazing. Great restaurant. We love it. Founding Fathers.

They would probably claim that as well. These memers are so good. They would probably like, we created founding farmers. They also were involved in that creation. I think it's from the North Dakota Farmers Union. And there are Somalis in North Dakota. There you go. I picture, Elan Omar went to college in North Dakota.

So in any case, founding fathers, founding farmers, they're claiming it all. Let's go ahead and take a look at one of these memes. This is C3. the way that they are using this lexicon. Brothers, behold it, the white land of the north. Snow everywhere. But look, the skyline, just like on the old drawings. Three centuries our elders told, behold, this is Minnesota.

Three centuries past, it was promised to us. On these horses, through the snow, we have found our land at last. And Emily, I think, honestly, if you oppose this, I think you are antisomolitic. Antisomelitic. Need to be called out for that. Oh, no. Might be anti-Somelite of the week. Oh, no.

Start that account. Oh, no. Let's put up some more of these, C-4. We've got a whole bunch of these. I love them. Okay, so this one says, this is our proposal. The West Bank. It says the West Bank, and it's like California, Oregon, and Washington, and then the New Jersey

Strait. We've got, let's see the next one. Then they zoom in on the quote-unquote West Bank, and it has, just like in the West Bank in in Palestine, all these different areas that are like Banu Stan's, and then under control of, they say under Somali control, under Somali and A&A control occupied by Somali Defense Force. So we've got that one going on. Let's see the next one. Some food appropriation here.

They say Somali food and it's tacos, egg fried rice sushi and pizza invented by the Somali 300 years ago. Play on how the Israelis like to claim lots of Middle Eastern and Mediterranean cuisine. Here we have a series of politicians kissing the Mall of America wall. Is this supposed to be Alyssa Slotkin next to Mike Pence and Mike Pompeo? Between two mics? Or is it? Kirsten Nelson?

I have no idea. For some reason, Bill Barr is involved here. We've got, yeah, Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo. It might be the Trump One cabinet. Yeah, that might be supposed to be Kirsten Mielsen. We've got some throwbacks here. But, I mean, the legacy does of our commitment to the Mall of America goes back. This one, Emily was a little uncomfortable.

uncomfortable with. But this is, you know, this is a famous picture of a guy who was from Brooklyn, right? It says, if I don't steal someone else will. And it's a Somali holding up the Somalian flag. So we've got that one as well. You know, some of them are a little, a little problematic. Oh, some of them are very, what I saw one AI rendering of a Somali Stonewall Jackson. Oh, my God. It's incredible. And now we have a, you know, this sort of infamous, like, manifest destiny picture that DHS account was tweeting out recently. And in, Instead of like a white angel floating over, it's a Somali woman who actually looks a lot like Ilhan Omar who is floating over all of this. So playing with the themes of, you know, the Israeli talking points and colonialism in general.

And the thing I've appreciated is they just keep going. Like, they keep pushing the lore. More, more layers. Like deeper and deeper. And really, yeah, there's accounts now that are like, you know, supposed to be like A-PAC, but Somalia. And then there's the accounts that are calling out that account. and it's, I'm enjoying the whole thing. I honestly, genuinely like to make a serious point about it.

I think it is a really brilliant way to respond to these attacks. Because, listen, I mean, I think what Trump said should be called out as racist. It is racist, but also, you know, it's not exactly news that Trump uses racism in effectuating his policy and specifically his immigration policy. So if you're just saying, again, this is racist, it's going to not. land as much, I think, as since we are all aware of that at this point, as like the trolling here, I think is just another level and a great response. Well, I mean, yeah, and I'm saying this as somebody who, like, thinks we have wildly underplayed the problems of integration.

I mean, Somalia is a completely different culture than United States and Minneapolis. This is a country that has a 90, according to UNICEF, a 99.9% rate of, or 99% rate of female general mutilation. So bringing a culture up into northern Minnesota, where you have such vast golf, I mean, I think it has genuinely been a very tough assimilation progress. I know people in Minnesota have been, feels like they've been screaming into the void about this for at least a decade. That said, this trolling shows assimilation to American meme culture in spades because it is, I mean, there's nothing more appealing than self-deprecating humor, first of all, like, across the board.

Anyone who can be, like, self-deprecating, you realize that there's something kind of funny about the idea of Somali's walking across, what did they call it, the Great North? Yeah, well, and humor is such a potent weapon. And then the other hilarious thing is, like, the people online who are taking this seriously, like, this is outrageous.

They think this was promised to them 3,000 years ago. And meanwhile, they're posting about, like, oh, Somali's IQs are low, and it's like, bro. So that's how it started. And, yeah, if people weren't following this closely, that's basically how it started, does somebody, I don't know who the first person was, but somebody put out a video of somebody, like, dead serious, deadpan,

making this claim to camera, trolling Israel saying, we were promised this land, and a couple of people fell for it, and we're like, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Oh, boy, have I got something even dumber for you? It's rough. Look in the mirror, my friends. Yikes.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's a great, it's been, wonderful it's been a sight to behold i mean humor is a weapon and this is part of trump like why he gets away with so much is because he's funny and that is an unfortunate reality of who he is and it breaks people's brains it does and so yeah if you're trying to otherize a people which is what they're trying to do say they don't belong they don't fit in they're garbage they all need to go blah blah blah and your response is this incredibly relatable nuance humor which is sort of irresistible Like, you're instantly, you're instantly humanizing yourself, number one, instantly demonstrating, to your point, a high level of cultural competency. And it's disarming. It's just fundamentally disarming.

Yeah. And they're playing on what's funny is that, like, obviously, these are different cultures with different histories. And that's, like, it's great self-deprecating humor. And it's, like, aware of the, it's not running from the, I don't know, the, the controversy. It's kind of leaning into it, to your point, about Trumpian tactics. Right. So it's very, very clever and very, very funny. Yeah, absolutely. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop.

His brother, Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want. to solve until it was too late. He was the head of this gang. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry's killed, Game Must Untangle a Dangerous Past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of you know, developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com or your nearest total wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky.

For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentlemen's cut bourbon. Please enjoy responsibly. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mail Room. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Every week, we're breaking down the world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility.

We'll talk science without the jargon and get your real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.