Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar - 1/6/26: DOJ Admits Maduro Cartel Is Fake, Megyn Kelly Rips Fox, Zionist To Profit From Venezuelan Oil

Episode Date: January 6, 2026

Krystal and Emily discuss DOJ admits Maduro cartel is fake, Megyn Kelly rips Fox coverage, Zionist oligarch to profit off Venezuela, guerillas mobilize in Venezuela.   To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.comMerch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breakingpoints.com. Good morning. Happy Tuesday. Welcome Breaking Points. Good to see you, M. Great to see you. We were just arguing before we went to air. We won't tell you what about, but we were. Just so you know. Just so you know. In case there isn't enough arguing in the show, Yes.

There was arguing off the show. If you sense the underlying tension, it's because we're furious with each other. That's right. Absolutely. I'm ready to storm off the said. The sight of us is actually probably great news for a lot of people because it means bro show tomorrow. Unexpected bro show tomorrow.

That is true. Yeah, Sagar will be in for Emily on what formerly was known as counterpoints on Wednesday. So anyway, you can look forward to that. But we also have a lot of good stuff for you in the show today, including a guest that we're both really excited about Yon Grillo. who is down in Colombia, went on a ride along with the Colombian military to the border with Venezuela's tracking movements of guerrilla groups there, has a lot to say about what's going on. And, of course, Trump has been fighting with the president of Colombia.

So really looking for it. He's such a fantastic journalist, really looking forward to speaking with him. We have all the latest with regard to Venezuela. There's a lot to say there. Maduro in court yesterday, very colorful moments. A lot of speculation about what might be going on behind the scenes in Venezuela and the potential power struggle that could be unfolding there. There's a lot we don't know, of course.

We're going to take a look at how some leading lights of MAGA are responding to all of this and what level of consistency they've showed with their regime change takes over the years, so you guys will probably enjoy that. Also, really disturbing questions being raised about whether someone got rich off of insider trading, of inside knowledge,

of when this raid and kidnapping was going to occur, and some suggestive hints of who, who that may actually have been. So we're gonna take a look at that. We also have some more details about a specific magabillionaire. That would be Paul Sanger, a major donor to Republican causes and to Donald Trump's campaign specifically, who stands to directly personally benefit from this new regime, whatever's going on in Venezuela.

So we will get into that. We also want to pay attention to what's happening in Minnesota. Tim Walsh, in a stunning move, has announced he is not going to rise. for reelection he had planned to. That campaign was ongoing. He said, I'm going to step back. Amy Klobuchar is taking a look at it. What an incredible fall and seems all to do with his fraud allegations. So a lot to get into there. And also wanted to keep our eye on health care prices. You know, it's probably a thing that you guys care more about than anything else in the show. For millions of Americans, health care premiums spiked in the new year. Very little relief in sight

and comes at a time when people are continuing to say, like, hey, however we feel about Venezuela, This is really not what we want you to be focusing your time on. So we wanted to make sure and pay attention to that as well. Yeah, big deadline coming up on that and all kinds of congressional dynamics that we will cover. So stay tuned for that. Give us a subscribe if you can, by the way. We appreciate it. Over at breaking points.com, you get the second half of the Friday show every week.

That is paywalled. You also, of course, get the show in your inbox in full. No breaks or anything. Every morning if you subscribe over at breaking points.com. No problem. If you can't, we totally understand. It helps us a lot to like. comments, subscribe, all of that. Thanks so much. Let's get into it. All right. So had a little bit of a

like false alarm in Venezuela yesterday evening that we'll talk about in a moment because I think some of the questions and conclusions people were jumping to there are illustrative of some of the dangers in terms of what has already been done in Venezuela. But let's start with this. Maduro had a court appearance yesterday. We've got some VO of him. We can put up on the screen of him being escorted here in New York City, you know, lots of armed agents here, basically taking him in on his way to the New York City courtroom, boarding a helicopter, et cetera. And it was, you know, it's one of these brief hearings where there's not a lot that happens. He just entered his plea of not guilty. But we can put A2 up on the screen. There's no cameras in the courtroom. So we just

have, you know, court reporters to tell us what happened here. Here's part of what he said. He appeared alongside his wife, who, by the way, was apparently injured significantly in the kidnapping. She has huge bandages on her face. Her lawyer has said he thinks one of her ribs may be fractured. So she was significantly injured. And that's why you see that weird stuff on her face in this courtroom drawing. In any case, part of what Maduro said is, I'm innocent. I'm not guilty. I am a decent man. I am still the president of my country. He said in Spanish, formally entering a plea of not guilty. When he tried to keep speaking saying he had been kidnapped, the judge then interrupted. Also, Emily, people have been noting the judge in this case is, what, 92? 92. It was appointed

by Clinton. Years old? Yes. I don't know about these lifetime. Appointments for judges are, it's a pretty wild thing. In any case. Fresh and ready to go. Ready to go. I mean, listen, I don't want to be ages. There are 92-year-olds who are still really with it, but, you know, your odds at that point of being like right on top of everything pretty low. We've seen it go wrong in recent years, so I think that's, speaking of fresh, that's fresh on everybody's memory. That is true, yeah. Yeah, Ryan said also they had a drop-site reporter who was outside of the courtroom yesterday and noticed bruising on Maduro's wife's face. And so that may seem like nothing, but actually what it could speak to is the operation itself.

And the more we know about the operation, actually, the more we could know about the politics on the ground in Caracas right now. That's a good point. There's a genuine question of whether Delcee Rodriguez was cooperating to some degree. It could be a really significant degree. It could be something very minor, but in a way that gave up Maduro, which would speak to the violence of the capture, possibly. And it could also speak to the politics right now, how cooperative Delcea Rodriguez is going to be with the U.S. government,

if Rodriguez is going to be able to continue during this, quote, transition period as the administration keeps referring to it, with a Maduro light regime, basically. And so it's not an insignificant detail that there appears to be bruising on her face. Yeah, and the number of security personnel who were killed now, the total death count, which does include some civilians, is over 80.

So there was a significant, you know, significant loss of life. And with his security personnel, I know dozens were killed. So, you know, I think those are worth keeping mind, we had Ava Gollinger on yesterday. She feels very strongly that Delsey Rodriguez and potentially her brother were talking directly behind the back of Maduro with Trump. Now, we have known, this has been publicly reported, that there were ongoing negotiations between

Maduro and including Delci Rodriguez with the Trump administration. We've been tracking those reports for a while now, so we know they were in conversations. That's part of why this whole action is also very perplexing and counterproductive. It's like Maduro offered basically everything that continues to be on the table. It's not like he was opposed to doing a deal. But Trump got backed into a corner where he needed to please a certain constituency and it needed to not look like he was weak

after bombing all these boats and amassing all these military resources, et cetera. So I think that's how you end up in this place where, you know, in a sense, potentially there's not that much that has changed. You still have, you know, Maduro's number two in charge. You still have, you don't have, at this point anyway, a direct U.S. invasion.

you still just have this threat. Now, maybe the threat has been escalated significantly. I would say that is the case. But, you know, I don't think anyone was under any illusions that the U.S. could do whatever they want at whatever point in time. So that threat continues and remains. And that's what they're effectively using to say, okay, we're going to use that threat of force in mafia style

to control you and the decisions that we care about you making in your country. And this now obviously raises questions as the United States. States is prosecuting Maduro, what are we going to learn for the prosecution of Maduro in either direction? Ways the government might love for us to learn ways the government may not be so happy that we learned. We can put this next element up on the screen. This is a screenshot, part of it is a screenshot from the New York Times, where it says prosecutors in the superseding indictment still accused Mr. Maduro are participating in a drug trafficking conspiracy, but they abandoned the claim that Cartel de Losolese was an actual.

organization. Instead, the revised indictment states that it refers to a, quote, patronage system and a culture of corruption fueled by drug money. It's more of a state of mind, really? Yeah, cartel. We don't mean it was like a real actual cartel. It's a vibe. You know, it's just kind of a feeling that you get. Yeah, I mean, we mentioned on the show that this thing was fake. It's a CIA invention. I know Ryan's talked about it. Max Blumenthal, Ben, or lots of people pointed out. The trafficking is real, and the corruption in the government is real. The idea that it's organized under the banner of Cartel de la Solis. This specific

organized cartel which was the justification offered by the government for this whole buildup and this, you know, kidnapping and attack on Venezuela, whatever. They're like, yeah, I don't think that's really

going to hold up in court. And so they pulled that on of the indictment because the other thing is Maduro, I forget the guy's name, but he has a top defense attorney now. So he has someone Julian Assange's defense. Julian Assange's defense attorney, that's exactly right. And so he has someone who knows what they're doing, who is handling his case.

And so something like that that's just glaringly, obviously not true, would be a major problem. So the government pulled all those references out except maybe like one or two and are like, yeah, that's just, you know, we're just using that as a blanket term to refer to this culture of corruption within Venezuela. And when we talked to Ava Galinger yesterday, she was saying, you know, basically what they have is they have some high level. informants, including people that they already have incarcerated, who were formerly, you know, high level and security services, et cetera, in Venezuela, saying they helped to facilitate, you know,

they allowed the airports to use. They allowed cocaine to be trafficked through. Backs. Yeah, that sort of thing and that, you know, they could show that this was a sort of concerted effort, not a one-off and not just handled by underlings that Maduro had direct knowledge of it, et cetera. But in terms of it

being like this actual, he's the head of a cartel, that is not a thing. So kind of funny that they had to, you know, when rubber met the road, and they were like, oh, we're going to have to prove this in a court of law. We better pull that piece out. And I'm sorry, but like, if you're a, if you're in Latin America, the idea that these kickbacks going to Maduro officials is worth the regime change operation. You've literally watched the United States do this in country after country to nab communists for decades on end. And so the idea that that's pretext for, to come in and say this is a terrorist organization. that warrants war

is it's not going to land as wonderfully with many people as the line goes from Republicans Well, especially not when you just pardoned, you know, a guy who was convicted of massive cocaine trafficking in Juan Orlando Hernandez because he happens to be buddies, you know, more on your political side

and buddies and financially benefiting, you know, some of your oligarch friends. So it all does ring more than a little bit hollow here. Also wanted to play for you, Mike Waltz, who I kind of low-key forgot existed after what was the facility he was originally up for and then he got pulled. Well, he was, I mean, it was

in the NSA. I think so, yeah. And then he was up for, now he's at the UN. So now he's... But they pulled Elise DeFonic and put Mike Walts in there after SignalGate. That's what, okay, Elise DeFonic was supposed to get and go to the UN and then she did it. And now she's not, she was running for governor, now she's not running for guy. It's been a... It's been a real

whirlwind. It's been a Tim Walls-esque tumble for Elise DeFonic, yeah. In any case, Mike Walts was at the UN. And, you know, I mean, there's not even a pretext of any sort of lofty justification here. It's just brazen like, they have oil and we want it. And we can't allow these people with oil in our region to have it and us not just come in and grab it. So let's go and take a listen to what he had to say at the UN. As Secretary Rubio stated just yesterday, this is the Western Hemisphere. This is where we live.

And we're not going to allow the Western Hemisphere to be used as a base of operation for our nation's adversaries and competitors and rivals of the United States. You can't turn Venezuela into the operating hub for Iran, for Hezbollah, for gangs, for Cuban intelligence agents, and other malign actors that control that country. You cannot continue to have the largest energy reserves in the world under the control of adversaries of the United States, under the control of illegitimate leaders and not benefiting the people of Venezuela and stolen by a handful of oligarchs inside of Venezuela. So there you go. I mean, they just don't make regime change war propaganda

like they used to, Emily. We used to get weapons of mass destruction. Now we just get machine guns. They're doing it better. We used to get like a whole, you know, UN presentation and trying to get them on board. Now it was just like, no, we did it. And we, you know, want the oil.

And so it is what it is. We are getting slightly closer to the truth. I guess, although I don't even know. It may be the case. I'm not even convinced that the oil thing is like really the thing because some of the oil economics don't make sense. We're going to talk about Paul Singer lately. Like, he definitely directly stands to benefit.

Yeah. But Trump talked to the oil executives beforehand. Yeah. Didn't brief Congress. But brief the CEOs who would be involved. So that's great. Still has a brief Democrats and has already gone back to the oil executive. So they've gotten multiple brief.

things. In any case, reportedly, and we covered this yesterday in Politico, they were like, okay, who's in, right? Who's with us? And hard nose across the board. Because the infrastructure is degraded, thanks to years of sanctions. There's been a huge brain drain. You know, there's obviously incredible risk and uncertainty in Venezuela. There's incredible risk and uncertainty with regard to our own politics. And oil per barrel is like pretty cheap right now. So there's a lot of more possibly lucrative places where they could invest with a lot more political certainty and stability. Yeah, it would make oil cheaper, obviously. Ryan was putting that out yesterday.

So this is about China, Iran, Russia. It's interesting because, again, Ryan, I keep referencing Ryan, but he was saying last night that basically like this is the first time that you're using, that they're openly saying, like, yes, this is about oil when it's actually not. They're not even afraid to be like to use the oil excuse anymore, even though it's like there's no shame to say like, this is a transactional war. This is all about the oil. It's actually about Iran, China, and Russia. And that's what you hear from Mark Rubio and Michael Waltz when it's when they're having these like bigger picture broader discussions. But that's ultimately, I mean, for Rubio, it's a deep ideological commitment to Latin American right wing. politics. Yes. You know, he knows a lot of the players who have fought in this going back decades. So it's, it would have been unthinkable for a Rubio administration, Secretary, State Department administration to not see some significant push in a direction like this. But it's also fundamentally for them about pushing, this is a real politic of it. And

it's, it's honestly probably a better argument than oil. But it's about pushing back on Chinese influence in the American Hemisphere. And by the way, if you are trying to turn off the Latin American left from China, Russia, Iran, all you're doing is resolidifying their belief that the United States is an imperialist actor by being nakedly imperialist. And it's not just about the Latin American left, which I would say is largely out of reach for like a Marco Rubio. They're not trying to persuade. He knows. He's not trying to persuade last. American leftists, but for normal people who might welcome Chinese influence in the country because it makes something better or cheaper, as they're told, Bukele, by the way, who welcomed

Chinese influence in his own country. Are you making that more likely in the long run? Yeah. Seriously. Absolutely. Yes. I mean, I keep saying this, but like, guys, there's a Sandinista in charge of Nicaragua right now. It's 2026. Are you looking at the last several decades as a major success? Right. Like, they're pointing to Panama. And Panama involved, I forget who said this, it was like Elliot Abrams. It was like, we had thousands of people on the ground in Panama.

Is that what you're asking for right now? Tens of thousands. We lost people in Panama. A much smaller country. Much smaller country. Much less difficult geography. U.S. influence for years, like, U.S. territory. It's completely different.

And that was, people died. Yeah. And it should be stated as well. You know, they went back and did a comparison between the public support, the U.S. public support for this action now, which is very tepid, very weak, basically just, you know, on partisan lines for even what, you know, the mission accomplished moment that we're having right now, which is the most popular part of the foolish wars that we get ourselves into, they compared that to the, you know, the taking of Noriega in Panama. And it was like 90% support. It was a, I may be rumor on the numbers a little bit, but it was overwhelming. Everybody consensus, like, yes, of course, we should do that. So, you know, those things matter, too. Even if you don't really live in a democracy, which, you know, questionable in our country at this point, but the sentiment of the public still matters, even in the most authoritarian systems.

So you also don't have public backing for what you're doing. And so I poll this morning, 75%, including a majority of Republicans, are worried that we will get too involved in Venezuela. Yeah. Well, Trump is talking about rebuilding their infrastructure when the domestic politics line right now is about affordability. And to have the president of the United States literally saying we are going to rebuild there, we have a lot of infrastructure to rebuild. Right. Is what I think he said at his press conference. That lands like a ton of bricks to people in middle America. Absolutely.

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we may use taxpayer dollars to help fund the reconstruction of like the oil apparatus and whatever needs to be upgraded. He floated that we might be directly on the hook for that. And that of course comes on, you know, on the heels of the Argentina bailout and all of this. And just a sense of like, okay, now you're doing another thing that doesn't directly impact us. And I know there's a lot of people running around with some sort of fantasy about how this oil is going to benefit you. It's not, the interest of Paul Singer and Exxon Mobil and Sikgo and Donald Trump and the oligarchs in the empire. Like those are not your interests. That oil is like not going into your gas.

It's a global commodity. It's going to be sold. In fact, you know, what you're more likely to get is, you know, I think Trump, part of this too is that he looks at the Gulf monarchies and he's sort of envious of the level of control and their sovereign wealth funds and how they can just do what they want and spend all this money around the world and build lavishly and all of this. this. And so he's saying, okay, well, this gives me more control over this global commodity. And so what you're more likely to get is actually that they restrict the supply to spike the prices. That's actually a more likely outcome that this is really going to directly in order to your benefit in terms of cheaper gas at the pump. But in any case, you know, if I had to say what this is about, I think you're right about the geopolitics in terms of countering Russia, China,

in Iran in a way that I agree is very foolish and counterproductive. But I think that is partly how they're thinking about it. You have this ideological commitment. Sogher calls at the Miami occupied government. I think it's a good way to think about it. Because, you know, we've talked a lot about the Israel lobby and its influence and how it compels behaviors that are not even in the interest of the empire. And so some of the foolishness of this, you also have to attribute to the fact that you have a political constituency with a lot of money that is very influential in this administration and, you know, and Donald Trump down in Mar-a-Lago, hearing from them a lot. And so you have to factor in that money in politics piece as well.

So you've got that. Then you've got the piece that I just said of, you know, I think he's envious of these Gulf monarchies and one sort of to set himself up in that space. And, you know, you put those pieces together along with the fact that you've got all these Wall Streeters, and we covered this yesterday, licking their chops to get in there and do, you know, carve it up and financialize it and buy up the distressed assets and do the thing that Wall Street does, which is not exactly just oil, but is, you know, in some ways, like, more destructive to Venezuela, certainly, but it would be profitable for them. And you've got

the perfect storm for, you know, for this action, whatever this ends up ultimately being. There's also the possibility, and this is, I know Ryan's been paying attention to it, but you see it becoming a bit amplified on the right that Trump wants to pressure Nicolas Maduro into talking about the 2020 election, and that sounds ridiculous to many of you, I'm sure, but I would not be surprised. I mean, Sagan Ryan actually reported that one of the ways Rubio World convinced Donald Trump to do this regime change was by saying, you know, Maduro, Venezuela, that's the allegations of 2020 elections that Venezuela had something to do with changing those vote tallies, which obviously there's not evidence to suggest, but that tells you they are probably right now trying

to flip Maduro or convince Maduro to say something along those lines. We don't know that for sure, but I think logic, it stands to reason that Trump's prosecutors in conversations with Maduro and his legal team have floated that. So don't be surprised if you see something like that come down to. Yeah, well, Ed Martin, who is, what is he in the Department of Justice, amplified a tweet yesterday suggesting exactly that, suggesting that Maduro could plead to lesser charges by proffering evidence that the 2020 election was stolen. So, I mean, and Maduro, I mean, he doesn't, he doesn't give a shit. He'll say whatever, right? If it helps him get out of a pickle and get his

wife out of a pickle as well, by the way, it was also, you know, being held and charged in this and injured in the capture and whatever. So, I mean, it sounds insane. But you're right to point that out, too, as a factor in all of this. You not only have the fact that, Trump is obsessed with this like Venezuela aspect. And he himself was posting on true social more like Venezuela election conspiracies just in the past one or two days, also indicating that that is on his mind in all of this. So you have this Venezuela fixation from the election perspective. And then you also have the sense of humiliation, both that they tried to do the coup

the first time and they failed with the whole Juan Guaido nonsense and they failed. And then you have Maduro who was, you know, apparently offending Trump with his dancing. I don't know. I don't really buy that whole thing. No, I don't either. Because the whole plot was already baked long before the, you know, the offensive dancing was going on. But I think that's probably true that Trump found his behavior because he was effectively, you know, trying to call Trump's bluff.

Like, I don't think you're going to do anything. I'm going to be out here saying, don't worry, be happy and dancing like a goofball and showing everybody that I don't care and I'm unbothered by your threats and your provocations. So, you know, I think those, like, personal feelings certainly work into this as well. Did you see Machado last night on Sean Hannity? Sure did. Sure did. I also don't buy that, like, the fact that she got the Nobel Peace Prize is why she's been

snubbed in all of this, but it doesn't have. But she clearly thinks that may be part of it because she went on with Sean Hannity. It was like, I will give you the Nobel Peace Prize, Mr. President. It's all yours. You deserve it. And he did come out and say, you know, I don't think. she should have gotten it. So it is a, you know, a rub with him for sure. Oh, I'm sure it's not nothing. Yeah. But it's also, I mean, that's what we can put the next element up on the

screen that brings us to this point about what's going on here. This is the drop site post. Some of the new reporting here about, and this is from the Miami Herald, Deos Dadao Cabello has sent voice messages to loyal military officers and ruling party figures calling for unity reorganization and mass mobilization in defense of the government saying those responsible for the USAID quote, will regret it for the rest of their lives. He is the interior minister, and this goes to questions about Delcee Rodriguez and what might happen in the future. So instead of doing a Juan Guaido and, you know, saying we have Maria Carino Machado ready to go in, we'll just, you know, bring her in on the boat and let her step off and this will be her kingdom.

Ride her in on a tank. Yes, yes. They're allowing, obviously, Maduro's second in command interim president, Delsi Rodriguez, to maintain control during what they're referring to as a transition period. But Deli Rodriguez, especially, I shouldn't say especially, but also from the American left, is under a cloud of suspicion for people think there was cooperation. And not unreasonably, people think there was potentially cooperation with the CIA in prepping this actual regime change military operation. And I don't know, the more that we're going to, the more that we're learning, I mean, the death toll you mentioned earlier of the Cuban guards keeps getting higher and higher. So that suggests maybe there wasn't as much cooperation as people initially

thought as though like Delta Force walked in, plucked Maduro and his wife from the beds and just walked on out and was that easy. But this is a significant political question right now because it gets to how Delci Rodriguez will behave during the quote transition period. Yeah, absolutely. And Although, you know, in a sense, I'm not sure how much it matters whether there was an explicit conversation because the pressure she's facing externally from the U.S. and internally from, you know, both domestic power players and from the population are kind of the same regardless. But, you know, in terms of whether this is going to be anything approaching a stable government, I think, you know, the question of whether she directly collaborated and how that will be received, et cetera, that is where that could be really significant. And I mentioned yesterday, you know, we were all watching very closely. There were reports of gunfire. There was significant gunfire around the presidential palace.

There was, you know, we saw drones in the air. Everyone was like, oh, my God, maybe a coup is going down. Maybe this guy, Cabello, is coming in. He's got the military behind him. But it turns out that it was their own drones that were interpreted as being hostile. Yeah. And so it was, you know, but it shows you, number one, they're on pins and needles. And number two, you know, if they thought that that was like,

like, you know, another U.S. action, they were ready to defend against it. Things can turn very quickly. Yeah. And I think also that's an important point to take away as well. I'm not going to play this, but I'll just mention, you know, Maduro's son also was in the legislature yesterday giving his blessing to, you know, Delci Rodriguez ascending to the being acting president and her brother, you know, is in charge of the legislature. So that was sort of like a show of solidarity there. So that was significant.

And then speaking of repressive regimes, already some indications here that, you know, there's limited space for speech about this in a similar way. There was limited space for speech around Palestine. This is an extraordinary clip that went viral yesterday of a protester who was doing an interview with local news. And right after the interview ends while the cameras are still rolling, she's arrested there on the spot for her protest activities. Let's go ahead and take a look at that. We have to apply pressure at all points that we can. This is not just in a foreign issue. It's our tax dollars that are also being used to commit these war crimes.

It is also the duty of us, the people, to stand against the Trump regime, the Trump administration that are committing crimes both here in the U.S. and against people in Venezuela. Now, in the background of this interview, you could see that police car. And now right here we're showing you video we have. Immediately after the interview finished, Plicta was arrested by two Grand Rapids police officers. You can see it in the video, and an officer tells Plicta that she is being arrested for obstructing a roadway and failure to obey a lawful command from a police officer.

You can see as she's taken away in that car. She was issuing a number of messages about wanting to the U.S. to free Maduro. But again, she was taken away by police officers there. And you can see in this video, officers were closely following this procession in downtown Grand Rapids. So there you go. I don't know, the roadways looked more, more blocked by the snow, I feel like, than any activity that was presently occurring in that video, at least. That looked, that made me cold watching that video of Grand Rapids, Michigan. Because of the free speech implications, the chills or the literal snow around.

I was like, gosh. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. This particular story, it looks like, I mean, I don't know. I genuinely don't know. They did arrest her for disruption, which is a thing when you go out and protest, a lot of people know that. And in fact, it's kind of meant to sometimes say, like, there's a civil disobedience. So I don't totally have a clear idea of what happened. I hope that she wasn't doing nothing and then plucked off the street, but that wouldn't be unprecedented either.

And at times of heightened tension over war, of course we see that. And so that's, people need to be really aware that if you are someone who was disturbed by free speech questions over the last decade, especially from the right, and you support what the Trump administration did, you may have to challenge yourself to look at potential censorship and suppression coming down the pike, because that always happens when there's escalated military actions. So people should 100% be aware of that. And there were, you know, pretty widespread, like immediate protests, which was also, to me, very noteworthy. Like, it didn't take any time, you know, we didn't have months and months of, all right, let's plan and now something really bad is how. It was, you know, it was instantaneous that day, the very next day in places like, you know, Grand Rapids, Michigan, not New York, not New, not L.A. So that was, that was noteworthy to me as well in terms of the way that the public was responding to this. You want to know what my evenings actually look like? Homework questions. Someone needs a permission slip signed. The dog's begging for a walk. Someone's

yelling for a snack. And somewhere in the middle of all that, I'm supposed to figure out dinner? That's why Hello Fresh has been a lifesaver. Fresh ingredients show up at my door, locally sourced when possible, simple step-by-step recipes that actually make sense. And no matter how chaotic the rest of my night gets, dinner is the one thing I don't have to stress about. I'm just cooking a delicious meal my family will actually eat and it takes around 30 minutes. And honestly, The real value is knowing that even on the messiest nights, dinner's handled. That's one less thing pulling at me. And that matters. Take some stress out of your evenings right now. Get 50% off your first box plus free sides for life.

That's right. Free sides for life. Go to hellofresh.c.cate and use code rescue 50. That's hellofresh.c.cata's number one meal kit delivery service. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyalkawali. And I'm Hurricane de Bolu. a new year. And on the podcast's health stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed?

We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight. You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and just start doing that. We break down the topics you want to know more. about. Sleep, stress, mental health, and how the world around us affects our overall health. We talk about all the ways to keep your body in mind, inside and out, healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other. Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I just fail.

and started screaming. If you lost someone you loved in the most horrific way. I said through you got 22 times. The police, right? But what if the person you're supposed to go to for help is the one you're the most afraid of? This dude is the devil. He's a snake.

He'll hurt you. I'm Nikki Richardson, and this is The Girlfriends, Untouchable. Detective Roger Goloopsky spent decades intimidating and sexually abusing black women across Kansas City, using his police badge to scare them into silence. This is the story of a detective who seemed above the law until we came together to take him down.

I told Roger Goluski, I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die. Listen to the girlfriends, untouchable, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Should we talk about your boss, Megan Kelly? It's never brought. Let's do it. No, I happened to.

So she made some really interesting comments yesterday, actually, revealing a bit of the mandate that she was under back when she was at Fox News with regard to covering war. Let's take a listen. I really think this is something we need to consider both sides on. I really do. I don't think, let me just tell you something. When I was at Fox News, which was a long time, 14 years, I would have known exactly what you do in the wake of Trump's attack in Venezuela, his retrieval, shall we say, to put it in mild terms of Nicholas Maduro. I would have known that I was supposed to cheerlead it. And I turned on Fox News yesterday, and I'm sorry, but it was like watching Russian propaganda.

There was nothing skeptical. It was all rah, ra, cheerleading, yes, let's go. And that's fine. I love our military as much as anyone. And I believe in President Trump. But there are serious reasons to just exercise a note of caution before we just get on the rah, raw train. All right. I have done that enough times in my career as a Fox News anchor to have been embarrassed enough to know I'm going to stay on the yellow light for this. I'm not in the green light territory. I'm not in the red light territory either. staying in the yellow light territory for now. I see all of the strategic advantages of what he's done. Trust me, I do. I see that other countries like Russia and China and Cuba were all over Venezuela and its oil posing a potential threat to the United States. I get that. That's actually the most persuasive argument and obviously the real one and none of this bullshit about law enforcement. But I have seen what happens when you cheerlead unabashedly U.S. intervention in

foreign countries thinking it's for our good and for the national, the international good, only to wind up with what we've called quagmire. And what does it mean in terms of boots on the ground? Trump is saying, I'm actually fine with that in Venezuela. Well, whose boots? Because I have a 16-year-old boy. And I have a 12-year-old boy. And I have a 14-year-old girl. And a lot of my listeners have children, too, who are actually the ones who might have to fill the boots. So I think I speak for a lot of moms and dads for that matter when I say, I'm staying in yellow territory until we know more. And I will not be joining the Fox News cheerleading brigade this time. I think that was a very important moment in revelation and require some humility to say because she says, you know, she's embarrassed by the cheerleading that she did at Fox News.

because what she's saying here is not just like this is what we were expected to do and it's not even necessary and having worked at one of these cable mats like I think Fox News had more of a top down this is our line and this is our storyline than MSNBC just because culturally like they were different spaces

and I was on Megan's show many times actually of Fox News but in any case you don't need that direct instruction to know what you're supposed to do and to know what the consequences are if you don't do that. And so she's also admitting here that, like, yeah, I knew what the assignment was and I did it, right? I knew the assignment was whatever the new war is. I'm all in. I'm cheerleading for it.

It's great. Look at our brave men and women. This is going to be amazing. Go America, go. And I, you know, I was a good little girl and I fell in line and I did that thing. And I'm not doing it anymore. Like, I'm not going to participate in that anymore. I will say one like nitpick thing is, you know, she's talking about this. Like, she's like, I think the real. reason is that it's Russia and China buying the oil. And I don't, this is so silly to me because like the reason that it was our own choice to not buy the Venezuelan oil, it's not like they wouldn't sell it to us. It's that we had decided to sanction them and block them from exporting oil to us. So like that was all is available to us. It's just sort of like crazy to me the way

this is framed like, well, they were selling to our adversaries. It's like, yeah, because you wouldn't buy from them. So in any case. Well, and we didn't like that they said, we couldn't do it on our terms. Like, that's basically what Chavez, he expropriated it. Chavez, yes. But I'm talking about in the present with the Dora. He was like, take the oil.

Like, yes, I will do the deals. Like, it's all there for you. I'm cool. It's fine. Let's do a deal, Donald Trump, you know? And there's this amazing Chomsky clip that front of the show going Greenwald references a lot. And Ryan and I actually asked Don Lemon about it one time,

which was incredibly funny. I think we asked Brian Seltzer about it too. But Chonsky is... I remember what you asked. Yeah. It was fun. He was not familiar with it, right? He was not familiar with it, but it's this moment where Chomsky's sitting across him. I want to say it's a BBC guy. But the point is, the guy is

like, we aren't getting, do you really think that we're getting talking points, essentially to, like, manufacture consent? And Chomsky was like, no, no, no. The thing is, if you weren't ideologically on board with everything that your corporate bosses are, you wouldn't be sitting here. Like, the point is, they don't need to tell you what to say. And I actually thought that was pretty interesting from Megan because it wasn't just about this idea, this conspiratorial idea that's easy to believe if you haven't seen how the sausage is made

inside of these networks, that there are like talking points handed out at the beginning of every day. There are editorial meanings where, you know, you, I'm sure, get a pretty good sense of what the network's line is. And they say these are the topics that are hot right now, this is what the audience is loving and all of that.

But the point is, they hire people who are ideologically in a, on this big foreign policy question, which is imperialism and US intervention. And that's, I think it's actually genuinely very interesting to see an ideological break from a lot of people. Now, this is a Trump quote. We can put B2 up on the screen. This is Trump saying, Maga loves it, referring to this regime change operation. Maga loves what I'm doing. Maga loves everything I do. Maga is me, is this a poem? Maga loves everything I do, and I love everything I do too. This is Like, when do you tell a seven-year-old to write a poem?

I mean, this is, this is cartoonish. This is an incredible Trump quote. This is truly an incredible Trump. Yeah, that's, that's, uh... Maga is me, Maga loves everything I do, and I love everything I do, too. Maga is me. All right, but... Self-reflection there.

But, yeah, I mean, like, listen, like, I think most people, and we have a kind of compilation of reactions to share with everyone, but there's a division on the right, yes, but the division on the right, yes, but the division isn't necessarily between oppose and support. It's a lot of people who fall into the Magin Camp, which she described it as yellow light, not green or red, not opposed to green or red necessarily. And I think it's remarkable that she had on air in Matey yesterday to talk right away.

Obviously, I don't have any insider knowledge of it, but I think intentional to start that show with Mate. And then she had Walter Kernan to give the pro case, which is super interesting. But that's where I think a lot of people are. Tucker on his show last night. It dropped last night. Tucker Carlson was talking about how he's kind of uncomfortable with it.

But if it's a precise thing that works out, which he sounded pretty skeptical that it will, maybe it'll be a good thing. But you just see it like hesitance among a chunk of maggot. You don't see total outright opposition from many people. I think there are a lot of people who I know we pulled this Matt Walsh. reaction. What did you make of this, Crystal? Not entirely surprising. So Walsh rebutting, and J.D. Vance did something similar, rebutting allegations that it's a war for oil. He seems like he's on board with this one. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, so you can see,

first of all, the war lasts like 90 minutes. I mean, it's just so... That's from Walsh. Yeah, this is Matt Walsh. Second, going to war to secure vital resource for your own people's totally legitimate. I mean, this is the sort of thing we used to have some shame about. We used to feel the need to cloak it in democracy or human rights. So now it's just, no, we're going to steal the resources. Why should we allow some third world communist shithole to control trillions of dollars worth of oil? So then just like, oh, okay, people aren't allowed to. And listen, Maduro's last election, I think pretty widely viewed as illegitimate.

But in general, like, okay, there's lots of countries around the world with leaders we don't like, right? We're just going to depose them all and many of them we work with, right? of many, like, illegitimate, authoritarian leaders that are direct allies. But in any case, I mean, just completely embracing the most brazen, overt, like, villainous, truly, language about resource extraction. Now because Daddy Trump does it, and, you know, I'm going to position this as, like, the cool and based position. We can put B5B up on the screen, you know, from him previously. I've noticed a stark uptick and anonymous accounts of no followers claiming they've unfollowed me and that my employer. should cut ties because I'm opposed to regime change wars,

a stance I've held consistently and vocally for my entire adult life until Trump did something different, and now here we are. So, and there's a lot of this. I mean, you know, Fuentes, we can put him up on the screen. He's actually taking some, I don't know how significant it is from his followers. He was cheerleading this Venezuela regime change leading up to it, making comments in favor of it, et cetera. It's abiding into the like Monroe doctor and all that sort of stuff.

after it happens immediately he just posts this like USA with a flag and then after Trump comes down it's like we're going to run the country and we're going to rebuild their infrastructure he says well initially it seemed like a solid operation to cleanly bloodlessly and quickly remove Maduro for power last night but this new policy of running Venezuela with U.S. soldiers sounds like a massive overcommitment I have zero confidence in nation building big mistake and I sort of feel like well what did you think regime change was going to be

vibes, essays? How did you think this was going to go? Like, you don't just depose the leader, decapitate the regime, and then it's like, oh, that's done with that, moving along, you know, and expect that, you know, all the resources are going to flow to you. No, I mean, this is going to be much more complicated, much more fraught, much more chaotic. And with Trump, you know, overtly say, hey, we may do boots on the ground. We may do years of, we may take out in other countries. Like, it's all on the table. Seems to be. pretty diametrically opposed to all of the assertions previously when they thought it was politically beneficial and Trump was positioning himself as the peace president and the anti-regime

change war president, the anti-forever war president. You know, there was a lot of a different tone being struck then. But leading up to this, Emily, I mean, we talked about it. I talked about it with Sagar. There was not the same level of resistance from MAGA on this as there was with Iran. With Iran, it was, there was much more direct opposition. Yeah. There was much more, you know, expressed concern building up to it here because, I don't know, you've got a confluence of, you've got the Latin American neocons, you've got the, you know, the, oh, it's just based to come in and take the oil vibe. You've got the drug trafficker thing. Yeah, you've got the communism angle. You know, there was enough there that basically all the factions of MAGA were kind of on board with it or actively cheerleading it. And I think that is that is another piece of why. I'm not saying this, the whole.

reason, but I do think that's another piece of why this went forward at this time, because Trump, I mean, he's looking around. All these people hate each other's guts and are fighting with each other and his whole coalition is splintering. And Marjorie Taylor Green is out of Congress, actually, now, or I think yesterday was her last day. And she's taking shots and Thomas Massey's taken shots in his approvals in the toilet. And I think he also sort of felt like, okay, this is a way for me to gather up all the pieces and get everybody back singing the same tune on something that, you know, a regime change. operation that we're all going to get behind.

Well, and it's, it's obviously there are significant differences between Iran and Venezuela. And as a conservative, I'm sympathetic to some of the arguments about like hemispheric stability and, you know, undermining Chinese influence among potential allies. What I disagree with is that this is a constructive way to deal with either of those problems. Given the last, you know, 50 plus years of history in Latin America or U.S. history in Latin America. I'm looking at Alex Jones post right here that says America must protect its own hemisphere. Mike Sernovich on that Tucker Carlson episode that dropped last night I referenced was basically debating the wisdom of this with Tucker. And Sernovich made a valid point. I think we would all agree with the point that not every war is Iraq and that there are grades of Iraq-style conflicts and that, you know, there are some military.

It doesn't, being opposed to what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan does not mean you're opposed to all use of military force. And at the same time, again, there's this Alex Jones, Mike Cernovich, I find this actually genuinely interesting. I think you can tell that Tucker was sort of torn by it, idea that there is a kind of ideological global, globalist slash communist, what's the right word, like plot to consolidate world past. power. And part of that... That's so ridiculous. But part of that, what's interesting is that part of this idea that the global elites are communists, right? The idea that they want you to live in the pod. Right, which is so preposterous.

Like, the global elites are the people who are doing this regime change war to carve up Venezuela into pieces and profit off of it. Yeah, they're definitely not Marxist. And they may have, like, some cultural, progressive leanings. But that's where I think this is your point about how there's a thought that this could bring together disparate factions. The Alex Jones reaction, I think, is genuinely pretty interesting. I'm not saying it's like politically significant, but I think it's genuinely interesting because it's this, what's the right word for it?

It's testing what MAGA actually is. Is MAGA this like kind of interesting? I mean, it's obviously going to be interesting no matter what. It's MAGA. And MAGA is me, as we know, according to Donald Trump. Right. Maga is everyone. Maga is everywhere. But, like, what is it? Because here's Lindsay Graham. We would be remiss if we didn't play this clip of Lindsay Graham. One of the things that Tucker was debating with Cernovich is that he thinks the problem is that this is creating a playbook that Trump is going to rinse and repeat elsewhere. So, let's roll. The happiest man in America. The happiest man in for now. B7. I pray and hope that 2026 will be the year that we make a run great again.

You just put a make a run great again hat on on cable news. And I think he had Trump signed one of these as well. So yeah, and you guys probably saw the clip. So we may have played one of them yesterday. I don't remember of Lindsay Graham on Air Force One with Trump. And just, I mean, I have never seen anyone. I mean, like, you know, like a kid on Christmas. Just absolutely ecstatic.

So, you know, ask yourself if you want to be on board with the things that make Lindsey Graham happy in terms of foreign policy. That's one of the things Megan mentioned when she was talking about. She was like, she was like, anytime Lindsey Graham is happy, I'm uncomfortable. That's a good barometer. It's a great barometer. It's a great barometer. His track record is not stellar.

I think Thomas, didn't Thomas Massey, or wasn't maybe Rand Paul? I think it was Rand Paul said something like he should be banned from going for the White House. He said there should be a law. Yeah. He said there should be a law that Lindsay Graham can't go to the White House, like more than once a week. Yeah. And that seems really generous. Once a week is way too many.

Yeah. You know what will be poetic justice is not justice. Justice is definitely the wrong word for that, but will be poetic as if Trump pardons Maduro for giving some type of like, I don't know. Fake election information. If Trump pardons Maduro, Lindsay Graham goes from being the happiest man in America. the saddest man. I don't know, does he, though? I don't know if he can't, like,

once he's gone and, like, if they're getting what they want out of Venezuela, I don't know. I don't know that he really cares about, like, deeply about specifically the fate of Maduro and whether he, like, wroughts in prison for the rest of his life or ship to Turkey was, I think,

or Russia was something that was floated. I feel like Lindsay Graham is one of the few remaining, like, genuine, neoconservatives, not neo-conservatives in that he's, like, a former Trotsky guy, but, like, actual imperialist, ideologically believes in spreading democracy. He's one of those like real true believers. So he may, he may genuinely want

a door to rot in jail. We'll see. But anyway, I mean, I think for right now, Maga, I think Trump is right. Maga is on board. The polling reflects that. It looks like it. You know, there are some warning signs. They're worried about, okay, well, do we get too involved? But I think they also have shown the capacity to, like when you ask them in advance, whether they support this, that was a different story. And then once Trump does it, then they're on board. So if we get more involved in Venezuela, they're going to probably be on board with that as well. So I don't think there's the same coalitional risks here that there were with Epstein, that there were with Iran, with Israel. I don't think you have the same sort of fraught landscape for him.

But, I mean, I could be wrong. If it goes, like, really catastrophically, then maybe that calculus changes. But for now, people are pretty much more or less on board. You want to know what my evenings actually look like? Homework questions. Someone needs a permission slip signed. The dog's begging for a walk. Someone's yelling for a snack.

And somewhere in the middle of all that, I'm supposed to figure out dinner? That's why Hello Fresh has been a lifesaver. Fresh ingredients show up at my door, locally sourced when possible, simple step-by-step recipes that actually make sense. And no matter how chaotic the rest of my night gets, dinner is the one thing I don't have to stress about. I'm just cooking a delicious meal my family will actually eat, and it takes around 30 minutes. And honestly, the real value is knowing that even on the messiest nights, dinner's handled.

That's one less thing pulling at me, and that matters. Take some stress out of your evenings right now. Get 50% off your first box plus free sides for life. That's right. Free sides for life. Go to hellofresh.cate and use code rescue 50. That's hellofresh.ca8, code rescue 50. HelloFresh, Canada's number one meal kit delivery service. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyankawali.

And I'm Hurricane de Bolu. It's a new year. And on the podcast's health stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that, or am I just depressed? We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight. You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and to start doing that.

We break down the topics you want to know more about. Sleep, stress, mental health, and how the world around us, affects our overall health. We talk about all the ways to keep your body in mind, inside and out, healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other. Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I just fail and start a screaming. If you lost someone you loved and the most horrific. horrific way. I said through you y'all 22 times. The police, right? But what if the person you're supposed to go to for help is the one you're the most afraid of?

This dude is the devil. He's a snake. He'll hurt you. I'm Nikki Richardson, and this is The Girlfriends, Untouchable. Detective Roger Goloopsky spent decades intimidating and sexually abusing black women across Kansas City, using his police. police badge to scare them into silence.

This is the story of a detective who seemed above the law until we came together to take him down. I told Roger Galoopsky, I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die. Listen to the girlfriends, Untouchable, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Speaking of law, that need to be passed.

Seriously. The fact that this insider trading on polymarket is just going on. And things you can bet on on these websites is just insane. The level of corruption and corrupt dealings and the way that our whole, not even economy, like our whole world is turning into a casino. In any case, let's actually start with C2. This is a Wall Street Journal's write-up of this Polymarket mystery trader who made $400,000 betting on Maduro's downfall.

They say less than five hours before nighttime explosions rock the Venezuelan capital. Caracas, an unknown trader, double down on bets, specifically that Nicholas Maduro would soon be out as the country's leader. The wagers on Polly Market had a 12-fold return on investment and fueled suspicions that someone used inside knowledge of the closely held U.S. operation make a quick profit.

And they track here, you know, person place some initial bets in December, and then they end up, you know, just placing a massive amount of their bets just hours before this occurs. And at the time, there was only an 8% probability, according to the overall market, that Maduro would lose power that month. Because while, you know, while we all knew that something was brewing and something might happen, et cetera, like the specifics of it, that it was going to happen now, and that it was going to happen now, and that it would be this kidnapping operation. Like, you know, the public did not have knowledge of that.

So in any case, you know, it looks very much. It has all the hallmarks of some sort of insider who had, you know, once they got the information, went all in on this bet and netted themselves $400,000 because of it. I mean, it's almost, and we can put C1 up on the screen now, too. There's people who have done some digging on this wallet. And if you dig deep enough, there is a potential connection to Steve Witkoff. Now, of course, with these wallets, that's very, very difficult to verify.

And we don't know. I mean, that's, I don't want to spread this as though it's definitive or anything like that. But if you're interested, I encourage you to go look at the wallet digging that some folks have done. I did reach out to the White House to ask whether they were investigating this yesterday, especially actually given that semaphore reported, the New York Times and was it the Washington Post also were tipped off about the operation and refrained from posting it for the protection of troops.

That's what the White House, I mean, that's an order that the White House, or a request that the White House makes of outlets in similar situations historically, but they decided to comply, and they didn't run their stories. But I asked the White House, are you investigating this given that maybe journalists

could have been people that were making these bets. Now, to me, I look at the wallet investigation. I find it to be fairly compelling Crystal, and it seems like it was a very small circle of Trump officials who were even in a position to alert the media. So the odds of this being someone at a very high level are significant. And it's something the White House absolutely should be investigating. But we've seen, you know, from crypto, and we're going to talk about that in just one moment, but from from crypto to these types of betting markets, polymarket, Kalshi.

This administration is pretty comfortable with this type of financial activity. And it may seem like nothing. And I know people who use polymarket and Kalshi and bet on these things think that it's, you can make the argument sometimes that it's good to have insiders involved from their perspective. They'll make that argument and say,

it gives a, it's a, it's a, this is not an argument I agree with, but it's democratizing in the way that smart traders can follow, can try to follow these wallets and see what they're doing and capitalize on it. But on the other hand, you have the deeply corrupting, deeply corrupting influence of people who are making these bets and public life getting super rich off of it. First of all, it's wrong. And second of all, it can start to influence their decisions. Yeah.

It's obvious. Of course. Yeah. I mean, it's, I think it is obvious. I don't think it requires explanation. I think most people look at this and are disgusted by it, you know, that you use your position of power to personally profit and that it, you know, it's impossible even for that individual to really know whether that's influencing the advice they're given in the President of the United States and whatever policies are under their direct purview that they can affect and they can also bet on and make tons and tons of money on. So it's deeply, deeply corrosive and frankly disgusting. So, you know, I don't think there's any doubt.

Like, there's very little doubt that there was some insider here who was trading who it is is more of a question mark. The wallet investigation points to just my understanding is that one of the wallets was affiliated with or connected to a wallet that had the name Stephen Charles. Whitkoff's name is Stephen Charles Whitkoff. So that's the connection that they're making there. Again, this is not at all definitive or proven. But, you know, these are the sort of breadcrumbs that have to be tracked down to get any sense of. what is actually going on here. Let's go ahead and talk about, you know,

by the way, we should mention Donald Trump Jr. is involved with Kalshi. He's on the board or he's like an advisor. And also for Polly Market, at least he was as of August. He was an advisor to Pollymarket. Oh, he was involved with them too. I didn't even know that. That was wild.

In any case, let's go ahead and talk about this other person in the Trump orbit who stands to directly benefit from the regime operation and war on Venezuela. I can put this up on the screen. C3. This was a very good article from popular info. Where they,

Judd Lagoon, writes down here that Venezuela rate enriches megabillioner, the ouster of majority of financial windfall for a prominent Trump-supporting billionaire investor Paul Singer.

Okay, Singer gives millions of dollars to Republicans, Trump included. And he recently purchased Citgo through his investment vehicles. Okay? Sitgo, bear with me here for a moment, used to be owned by the Venezuelan state oil company. Okay, it had debt.

I'm not even going to get into the technical legal specifics, but basically we took it in the, you know, under the, like, sanctions era against Maduro. We basically took it and sold it off and, you know, now it has ended up in the hands of Paul Singer. So Citgo has, you guys are probably somewhat familiar with them. They have, of course, gas stations across the country. They also own refineries. And those refineries are specifically outfitted to process Venezuelan crude. And the fact that they are not no longer able to get that crude from Venezuela because of the current sanctions regime and hostile, hostile relations with Venezuela has made Citgo much less profitable and much less of a highly valued. asset. So the estimate is that Singer got this for basically like bargain basement prices because of that reality of, you know, their refineries, not being, not operating at optimal capacity because they don't have access to this crude. So he stands to benefit and his companies stand to benefit directly if that situation changes. So, you know, I think that's important to understand that this Trump donor, and we talked earlier about how, you know, you've got this

a lot of powerful, wealthy influences, both for ideological and financial reasons who wanted to see, you know, this outcome in Venezuela that pushes Trump in this direction. And Paul Singer, I think, is an important part of understanding that. And then the last thing we have here from C4 is, I mentioned this earlier, but, you know, Trump met with the oil executives before the action. He's set new meetings with oil companies now after the action to, you know, make a deal with They'll benefit from a little bit of U.S. government socialism, helping to prop them up in Venezuela so Trump can get what he wants out of this transaction, try to push them in that direction over what appears to be some reluctance to reengage or engage for the first time in Venezuela in certain situations. But in any case, that gives you some sense of what's going on here.

Yeah, the Politico did a story trying to reach out to some of these oil companies before the operation and found that nobody was in. interested. It was crickets when they reached out being like, hey, anyone want to get back into Venezuela? And people were pretty hesitant about it. One thing we should also mention is that lest you think that popular information story is just from lefties, the Wall Street Journal has an article. Sitgo is a crown jewel of Venezuela's oil industry. Elliot, that's Paul Singer's hedge fund, is set to reap the benefits. And if we go further down, this deal actually has to be approved by the Treasury Department. So it's not done yet. It's not done yet.

Who's in charge of the Treasury Department? Oh, man named Scott Bessent, who loves deals like this. And so that's now in front of the Trump administration again. So we'll see, Cristle, but it reminds me of this story that Ken Vogel did just yesterday in the New York Times. I think it was yesterday. I'm sorry, it was actually earlier. But January 2nd, the headline, Trump's Super PAC raised more than 100. million dollars in recent months. The single biggest donor was $12.5 million each. These are the single

biggest donors from Greg Brockman, who's co-founder of OpenAI and his wife. So we're talking, this is from crypto.com. This is contributions from the parent company of crypto.com, $20 million. And so this is an administration that is openly transactional. I don't even need to tell people that everyone kind of understands that's how it works at this point. The administration is relatively transparent about that being how it works at this point. But if you think that played no factor in this geopolitical military intervention, I don't know what's tell you. I think it's fairly obvious. And the stakes of that, when you have Lindsay Graham putting his make a Ron Great Again hat on during Fox News hits, the stakes of that, lest you think Venezuela's no

big deal, which obviously you and I don't agree with Crystal, but let's say that's your position. This can accelerate around the world in ways that I think would make people genuinely nervous about who's deciding American foreign policy at the end of the day. And why? Yeah. Well, I think people are already pretty concerned about that. At least I am, and I think many others are also because they can see what's happening. I mean, it's not even, it doesn't require us to explain. Like, it's all out in the open. you know, Trump says it outright. So it kind of makes our job easy because he's like, yeah, we want to plunder.

That's what we're there for. Yeah, and as Vogel, right, some of these guys were invited to that big dinner for Muhammad bin Salman, so the crypto guys. And so, yeah, this is, it's bought and paid for. I guess maybe it's slightly better that we can kind of see what's happening, but it's also even more nakedly transactional. Yeah. I see I don't I understand that instinct and I feel it in a certain sense as well but I think shame is actually a good thing oh I don't disagree with it yeah because it does create some limits on what can be done I mean as bad as the you know democracy regime change

like oh we're doing this for human rights whatever it meant that the fact they had to code it in some sort of like legitimate aspirational goal gave a political weapon to oppose it with, you know, when it's just like, no, I mean, and I keep bringing up Gaza. I mean, I think Gaza was an important test case for them of like, oh, we can do a genocide in plain view, everyone can see it, we can starve an entire trap population, turn the whole place to rubble, and we can just do it, and no one's going to stop us. And, you know, that puts everything on the table. It puts everything on the table. It just means if we have the force and the weaponry, we can do it. Now, it doesn't consider any second order consequences, let alone

any third, fourth, fifth, 40th order consequences. But in terms of the initial shock and awe, might make it right, it puts everything on the table. And that's the world we live in now. Well, this is a great point to turn now to Yohan Grillo and to bring him into the conversation because he's been on the ground in Colombia, where Donald Trump is also now flirting with potential regime change efforts against Gustavo Petro. So let's get to Yohen. You want to know what my evenings actually look like? Homework questions. Someone needs a permission slip signed. The dog's begging for a walk. Someone's yelling for a snack.

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We're joined now, actually, from the border, Colombian border with Venezuela by journalist Joanne Grillo, truly one of the very best out there. Please go subscribe to a substack over at crashoutmedia.com is one of, I think, the most in valuable places to get reporting from Latin America. Yohan is based in Mexico. Yohan, thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, great to be here, hopefully as well there. You've been embedded, actually, with Colombian law enforcement as the chaos in Venezuela ensues.

Can you just give us a sense of what you, people should absolutely, by the way, go over to your substack and read your piece about this. We put D1 up on the screen. This is Yohen's reporting from the ground in Colombia. but if you and you could just give us a sense of what it's been like on the ground in Colombia where Donald Trump has threatened Gustavo Petro since this Venezuela operation was completed, what's going on down there right now? Yeah, sure. So I'm in Kukuta, which is the biggest border city between Colombia and Venezuela

and one of the biggest communities of Venezuelans outside of the country. and you've got the situation around the border post with a lot of Venezuelans who come over to work and a lot of refugees as well in neighborhoods here but also I went with the military outside of the city now one of the things that happened is that immediately when the attack happened on Saturday at 2 a.m. Venezuela time on Saturday

the colonel was saying he was woken up then they had immediately had a meeting with President Pedro and with the Ministry of Defense to say we have to react to this and they sent 30,000 troops to the border. Now, part of this was just because of the threat or what they saw as a threat of any U.S. aggression that could spill over.

The same as if in the United States you had suddenly an attack from China on Canada. I'm sure if this would immediately send troops to the Canadian border just as a kind of response. But also there's a guerrilla group called the ELN. National Liberation, National Liberation Army, which is a guerrilla group also incited in the indictments against Maduro,

which crosses both sides of the border. It's about 5,000 people. And immediately following the attacks, they noted a lot of these guerrillas moving right over back into Colombia, you know, responding. But since then, the guerrilla group has now issued a statement saying, you know, we need to respond to gringo aggression. So you see these things,

and the army were looking at, This also you had in December, the same guerrilla group carried out a wave of attacks and bombs and all these kind of things as well. Can you talk a little bit more about that? What is your sense of why they were moving into Colombia, what they may do going forward and how significant they are to the future in Venezuela? So I think that they're just immediate response. I mean, they move back and forth over the border. And so they're very present in both countries and they can move very easily. And immediately when they saw the attacks, it was kind of an immediate retreating move.

They saw large people like, you know, are we going to be attacked ourselves? You know, could their camps have been targeted, you know, with their CIA locations and some of their camps, and so they move into Colombian territory? But seeing that it was, you know, a more limited attack, I think one of the big situations happening right now, and there's this news this morning about this, there's apparently a bunch of kidnapping of a bunch of police officers by the guerrillas. And there's a lot of reports that are quite hard to confirm, but from Venezuela, since this U.S. Special Forces abduction or apprehension of Niklas Maduro on Saturday, you've got a lot of these armed groups emerging and coming out more. So the guerrillas, the ELN, in a lot of this part of Venezuela, they move very people. So they're very openly present there, and they're working with Venezuelan authorities.

Usab is a group called, people say, called the collectivos, which are basically pro-government or pro-Cavista, Chavista being the socialist ideology, named after Google Chavez, the founder. These are armed groups, which are very, very present in the neighbourhood, and we've seen them come out a lot more. So people are telling me that, like in the areas now, they're seeing these militias out,

just talking to a colleague in Caracas, Venezuelan colleague in Caracas, who sending me information there. From there, there was a big march on Sunday following the apprehension of Maduro, where a lot of these collectivos came out openly holding guns, openly carrying Klasnikovs. So I think there's a kind of worry about, with a certain vacuum of power, with the Venezuelan government being weakened from above by the United States, then from below these kind of armed groups taking more power,

And one of the things my colleague in Caracas was saying is there's a worry this could become a bit more of like a Lebanonization of the streets with these, you know, with these different armed groups, ELN, collectivores and different groups openly kind of controlling the neighborhoods if there's not a clear authority asserted. Well, let's play here Donald Trump talking about Gustavo Petro. This is going to be D2. Columbia is very sick, too, run by a sick man who likes making cocaine. selling it to the United States, and he's not going to be doing it very long, let me tell you. What does that mean? He's not going to be doing it very long. He's not doing it very long. He has cocaine mills and cocaine factories. He's not going to be doing it very long. So there will be an operation by the U.S. and...

It sounds good to me. And we can go ahead and put this next element up on the screen as well. This is Gustavut Petro a couple of times, actually, in recent days, basically saying, come get me, not dissimilar entirely from what we saw from Nicholas Maduro, obviously before Trump came and got him. Yovin, just wanted to ask how this back and forth is affecting the, basically the reality on the ground in Colombia. That's kind of what we've been talking about the entire time. But how fragile is or is not, how fragile is Petro right now?

What is the sense on the ground? So I think Petro is a very, very different thing from our. Maduro and a very different situation. I mean, Maduro was indicted twice, was indicted in 2020 and again this year on narco-terrorism conspiracy and cocaine trafficking. We don't know about any indictments of Gustavo Petro, if there's any there at all. The other thing is that whereas with Maduro, there's a pretty credible claims that Maduro stole the election in

2004, and Trump hasn't really talked about this much as being much the reasons, the political reasons is more about crime or oil. There's, you know, Marco Rubio emphasizes that, and he was, you know, Venezuela was quite a kind of rogue regime in some senses around the region.

That's not true. There's no real serious claims that Gustavo Petro stole the election when he was elected, and he actually will leave power this year. Now, Gustavo Petro is very big on social media and talks, you know, very kind of, anti-imperialist talks, a very kind of hard rhetoric. But it's quite hard to see if that would be kind of backed, you know, with the military, I was with the military in Colombia.

And my sense is the military in Colombia are actually quite right wing, you know, for the years against the FARC, the left wing will be the FARC and now fighting the ELN. I think they're quite anti-leftist, very different in Venezuela military, which is run by Chavistas and quite a lot to be left with. And so I don't think this kind of situation or an arm confrontation, I don't think it's on the cards. However, I just always give a caveat here.

Now, because, you know, Trump, you have to take him seriously. You know, he can say this stuff and you think, oh, it's not serious. And then, you know, now he's shown with these, you know, a very brazen, higher-risk operation to take out Maduro. You have to take this stuff seriously, so we don't know. But I don't think war will go to Colombia at this point, but, you know, we have to see. What was Petro's relationship with Maduro like? And how many Venezuelans are actually in Colombia now?

Yeah, so it's an interesting about Petro is whereas he had left wing and he was himself as a history with guerrilla movements, he actually ended up having to have. a bit more of a combative relationship with Maduro. It was, you know, it was a bit rocky up and down. And so he's kind of trying now to kind of bring in certain and Chavista stuff, certain Chavez stuff, but he was not great. And also he's in conflict now with this ELN guerrilla group. And the ELN guerrilla group is very openly pro-Chavista,

very openly, you know, ideologically, very left-wing, very anti-imbalt. imperialist, very anti-American, although they're also, you know, like, involved in cocaine trafficking and justify that as a way to kind of sell cocaine to the green goes to the United States. Now, the actual Venezuelan population here, it's estimated at 2.8 million Venezuelans in Colombia. So it's, you know, there was a, about eight million, close to eight million Venezuelans left the country since 2014. Maduro took power in 2013. And whereas the economy, there was actually growth under Hugo Chavez, where Chavez took power in 1999, so he was in power for 14 years.

And you did have a period of growth. And the first moment of Venezuela was 2012. And things were quite good then. There was still quite a lot of sympathy for Chavez. Then you saw things go down drastically in the country. So like 2015, 2016, just things absolutely collapsed. I mean, you saw the economy go down by 80%. And what that meant on the ground was,

was real devastation and malnutrition. So, you know, when you see have 8 million people walking out of country in a decade. And so there's a lot of people, you know, we're talking to people, the Venezuelans at the bridge here, people coming over for the day. They're generally, you know, very anti-government. In this particular part, now there's also our pro-government people

still marching in Caracas and in various places. But a lot of them are very much against this government. but also with kind of a lot of caution about this I mean one thing is they took out Maduro so for a second you thought okay this is a big change that when a revolution's happened and within a few hours you've realized actually the regime is still in power

so the rest of the people are still in power so and again to understand the situation on the ground and what this really looks like people they can't go out and start celebrating on the streets in Venezuela they've got these pro-government militias in their neighbourhoods and they're going to know who you are

if you go out and they can target you. You've got a political police known as Sevin. You've got the guerrillas around there working with the government. So you have got a lot of this apparatus there and then they realise, okay, it's still there, but one guy will say to me because we're patient, we've seen in over a lot of years

but then it's very unclear. You had then, you know, the Trump turning against Maria Corina Machado of the opposition. Now, I talked to a lot of people about that, and in some way, it's kind of interesting because a lot of the kind of left-wing commentators would say, oh, Maria Corrine Machado was a CIA asset. But according to some of the evidence is coming out now, it seems that as the CIA was saying, from their intelligence reports, she doesn't actually have that much support in the country on the ground. I think that might be fairly true.

Talk to people, it's not like there's a real, you know, big support. There's still quite big... Which is what happened with Guaido, right, Ewan? Yeah, exactly. One of the problems, I think, for the Venezuelan opposition is the Venezuelan opposition are often are from quite an elite upper-class background, and most Venezuelan people are poor, working-class and poor. And so there's quite a big gap sometimes of how they're relating to people,

whereas the Chavistas did genuinely build this kind of working-class base in these communities, which also, I think, is very repressive. it's a complex situation but like the you know so they kind of concluded but they're right now leaving Nelson Rodriguez who's been you know part of the regime you talk to people that say

well she's just part of the same thing they've got diastado caballo is also right there in power still he's indicted but he's still in power and they're saying well these are still the same regime now we have to see how things play out but you know

one of the worst situations would be Or what's happening right now is you have, you know, the Trump government saying, you know, we say we're running Venezuela, saying that we're meaning we're running it with warships in the Caribbean, telling them, well, they have to do or we're going to bomb you again, rather than, you know, an Iraq occupation. And but then running a authoritarian government, as long as they give the United States what it wants, but keeping that same authoritarian government in power on the worst of all worlds, or is it going to be actually overseeing a transition and they see it has to be.

slow, you know, move slowly. That might be the case. But things just seem very unstable. Another thing is that like, so for us journalists, most of us who came down here, hoped to go into Venezuela after the thing, nobody's been able to get in. A lot of journalists who've tried to go in, they've detained them, deleted all their material and throwing them back.

There's a lot of news about journalists inside Venezuela being detained. Now, you know, people are trying to apply for, for video. to go in then. I mean, it's the same. The United States says you have to have a visa journalists to go in their report. But nobody's really getting them. So it's hard to, a lot of the information there. But the immediate atmosphere is the government continues to be repressive or even more repressive in reaction to this, what's happening right now. My last question for you, John, is my understanding is Petro was not that popular. Has his popularity in the country improved vis-a-vis his sort of, like, aggressive stance in defense of Colombia and against

Trump, or is that not really made a difference? I don't think so. That's not my impression. And it, you know, it's hard to see what to see kind of new opinion polls. But I think generally in Colombia, there's quite a lot of disillusionment with Petro in power, even among some people that kind of sympathetic to him. Whereas in contrast with Mexico or I'm normally based, I do think Cloudy, Shyambe, in Mexico is still generally popular overall

and has been quite an effective president in some ways. I don't think that's true of Gustavo Pedro. And there's a base and there's quite a enthusiastic or dedicated base. and there's dedicated people who really, really believe in Petro and the kind of left-wing project and the kind of first time you've had it in Colombia. In Colombia for a long time,

political left was kind of not being very active because the guerrillas, they said left-wing basically meant you were a griller, meant you with the FARC, made you with the ELF. But this time experiment of left-wing government in Colombia I don't think has been very popular, but we'll see there's a new election coming up on 31st of May, and Petro, the party has a candidate and is a right-wing candidate

competing there as well. Well, from the outside, I will say, have enjoyed his content creation quite a bit. So at least there's that. We'll have to have you back to talk about Mexico, which is a whole other can of worms. But thank you so much for breaking down what you're seeing there on the ground. So, so helpful. We really appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, great to be here. We're best there. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanko Wally. And I'm Hurricane Dabolu. It's a new year. And on the podcast's Health Stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early.

Is there a chronotype for that, or am I just depressed? Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, it's Michelle Williams, host of checking in on the Black Effect Podcast Network. You know, we always say New Year, New Me, but real change starts on the inside. It starts with giving your mind and your spirit the same attention you give your goals. And on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything. everything you need to step into your next season, whole and empowered.

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